WEBVTT - Ep. 183: All For a Flashy Mule 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.680 severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening un podcast. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.440 You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.120 are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.960 the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:35.640 Nor where you stand with on x Alright, first thing 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.199 I want to do, Clay Um Clay Newcomb right off 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:40.800 the bat, just to get it started like a cold 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.840 open man. You've cold opening show business? Uh do uh 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.159 talk about how you guys fixed squirrels down there in 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.400 the Ozarks, like the number one if you had to 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:50.760 eat them the rest of the one way the rest 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.440 of your life. Simple answer that there's there's only one answer, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.680 that's frieda. But there's more than that, right, Well, I 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:03.040 mean you don't that's it. Well, I like to double 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:07.479 batter them. So you used to take your buttermilk, and 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:08.840 if you got to take this in the field with 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.919 you gotta have a little preparation, some zip like bags whatnot, 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:17.240 but buttermilk flour mix it holdup a little bit more 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:23.560 because we don't know if you're butter milk. So you 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.800 got your squirrel, you got your squirrel quartered. He's also 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.240 you've you've also got the rib cage and mid section, 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.240 so you've got five pieces of squirrel. When you're when 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.320 you're cooking squirreled you, uh, do you discard I mean 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.160 the actual rib slab. Well, I mean, I mean you're 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.399 not eating that right, Well, kind of as a hat 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:48.880 tip to two the squirrels, I usually cook it just 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.920 you got some squirrel backstraps on there, you know. H yeah, 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.400 but so so. But typically you would just eat the quarters. Yeah, well, 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:05.000 the quarters and the like the whole I'm trying to 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.240 look with the vocabulary of squirrel, isn't it the saddle, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.160 the four legs, and then from the right in front 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.919 of the pelvic bone right up until about the second 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.080 third rib. Yeah, that kind of like oyster like with 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.440 the spine in the middle. Saddle. Yeah, the saddle saddle. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.480 That works for me. But you take and cook the 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.200 rib cage too, well, if i'm I mean, if we're 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.960 if we're cooking in the field, I would, but there's 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.000 not much meat there. There's not much meat there. I mean, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.800 really we're talking about four quarters, but you're not throwing 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.720 the saddle out. Well, I mean it's I guess it's 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.320 it's a less process just to cook all of it. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.960 Just cook the saddle with the ribs. So you just 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.919 got this big like a saddle handle. Yeah, five pieces, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.919 So you got five pieces, five pieces. So what I 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.000 would do is I would I would take those pieces, 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.160 dip them in buttermilk. Have a zip like bag with flour. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.000 If you're at your house to be a pan or whatever, 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:12.040 bat put the put the buttermilk squirrel into the flour. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.160 In the perfect world, you soak them in the buttermilk. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.920 You know, I'm gonna be honest here. I never have 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:23.320 but I've never eaten squirrel with that much like forethought. 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.160 Times it's just like, hey, we killed some squirrels, let's 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.000 eat them. That's typically the way that I do it. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:34.280 So I have not like done that, but so buttermilk 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.040 and then put them back in the flour for the 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.600 double the double backs. As you're saying, you're going buttermilk flour, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:45.560 buttermilk flour. You ever cook catfish by going, uh, you 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.000 go flour, then egg because it gives the egg the 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.040 egg sticks to the flour, and then the corn meal 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.880 sticks of the egg. I've never done the corn meal first, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.800 I would have done the egg first corn meal. Well no, no, no, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.240 So you're actually saying, like actual white flower. Yeah, you 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.640 take those, You take the fish, put it in flour, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.960 dusted and flower. Then it goes to the egg because 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.760 then it gets then the egg. It's like you're sticking 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.160 the flower to the squirrel, the egg to the flour, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.160 the corn meal to the egg. And you're doing like 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.960 you're sticking the flour to the squirrel. No, you're stick 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.520 in the buttermilk to the squirrel, then flour, but then 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.960 sticking more butter milk onto the flower, and second and 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.839 getting yet more flower. The second dip is where the 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.200 magic happens, because that's when you really get the thick better. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.320 I like a good thick you know, thick battery, you 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.880 know deep fried. Do you find the as it cooks 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.000 that all that falls away because you've got too much 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:50.680 of it? Probably seven you probably maintain the batter. Yeah, 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.719 the rest of it's just like crumbled in the bottom 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:59.600 of the pan. So that makes the great Yeah. The 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.040 key though to the way that I have learned and 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.200 and I can't I won't lie and say I've been 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.200 doing this my whole life, but bare oil, and you're 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.359 sitting there holding ladies and gentlemen. Clay newcle was holding 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.800 a jar barrel which is half pint, which is some 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.160 pure white. I'd call that pearl. I'd go so far 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.080 as I call it pearly white. I've got a question 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.840 for you about this later, but let me should I 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.640 were so many, so so I would, I would. I 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:36.520 would fry that squirrel, double double battered squirrel in some 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.120 type of pure animal larden. I mean if you if 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.560 you didn't have barrel oil, if you just had like 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:46.120 pork lard, I would fried in that. You know, you 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.279 know I'm a mid I'm a mid kind of guy. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.120 You don't want to You're not deep frying it, so 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.000 you don't need it like an inch deep, but you 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.559 don't want to skimp on it too much. Classic mid fry, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:02.760 mid fry. You know I'm gonna fried. It's not deep ride. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.320 I think that counts as a shallow fry, because anything 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:14.640 shallower than a shallow fry counts is just saute like fry. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.600 I pictured the oils coming halfway up it. Okay, it's 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.680 probably not that because barrel oil is such a precious commodity. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.200 You don't want to waste it on one spin, you 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.120 know what I mean? Dude, I have you ever hear 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.080 the chef um he's a friend of the program Jesse 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.720 Griffith's Texas. He was talking. I knew this like a 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.520 thing people did, but I just kind of forgot about it. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:41.360 He fries his fish and uh be fat, beef fat. Yeah, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.320 he buys at his restaurant. At his restaurant, he buys 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.560 beef fat, renders his own bee fat, fills his fryer's 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.680 full of bee fat, and fries is fish in there. Yeah. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:58.080 I don't like the smell of beef fat. It's heavy duty. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.320 It's heavy duty. So then uh, there you are. You 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.159 don't power boil it, you don't double fry it. So 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.400 you like a good chewy hunk of squirrel. You know, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.040 I can't. I can't say that I'm like the ultimate 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.760 squirrel chef. That's just the way we do it. That 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.560 was my question, How do you do it? Yeah, that's 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.760 that's the way we do it. I've had some squirrel 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.280 and some like new bruns with stew that we've made 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.520 which kind of like, uh, you know, where you would 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.480 boil it and then add it to a stew with 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.040 you know, carrots and onions and all kind of stuff. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:31.880 But those are the main way. I mean, there's really 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.120 only it's really only one way to eat a squirrel. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.679 In the South, we had three four ways we cooked 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.360 it as a kid, and I don't think any of them, like, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.760 none of them are traditional. You had gray squirrels in Michigan, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.360 fox and gray and then both. You know you guys, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:53.280 where you're at, you have black face gray very very 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.040 little black squirrel is like, you kill a black squirrel, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.360 you're gonna get it out. Oh you know what's interesting, 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.400 Like in my mom's yard. Um, in my mom's yard. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:04.800 Over the course of my lifetime, it's been funny. It 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.240 went from very rare to see a black phase gray 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.760 squirrel and in her yard to now it's rare to 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:17.200 see a gray face. Really what happened? It's just you know, well, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.120 I think a gray squirrel can have a litter that 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.440 has gray face and black face in the same litter, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.040 and for something, it's just trending towards black h the 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.880 predators pick up on it. Could be ever hide in 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.480 the black ones. Yeah, it could have something to do. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.640 Remember how we were just talking about black and white 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.760 squirrels or black or yeah, white and Brown's could be 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.280 that some there's some really proficient squirrel hunter naturally doesn't 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.800 like black face gray square. You would have to think 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.120 that would be a pretty significant change in terms of 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.199 that's that animals number one line of defenses its color. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.440 It really would be. And yeah, I mean I wish 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.080 I could tell you some hard date on it, but 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.200 that's happened. But what I was gonna say about the 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:03.000 traditional aditional cooking is there's not like where I'm from, 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.560 there's not a lot of but people don't think of 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.040 like traditional fried fish is traditional there, but traditional a 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.280 lot of places. But we had four like my mom 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.120 would do four things with it. And one was like 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.800 something that everybody did back then with wild game, which 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.000 kind of fell out of favor, is you would take 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.920 a crock pot and put all your squirrels in it 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.440 and then you dump cream and mushroom soup. Yeah yeah, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.720 I'm bringing that back and then turn the crock pot 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.680 on Minnesota. Same thing you did, the same thing, ladies 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.959 and general. That's Kevin Harlander. Hello you more? Do you 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.200 like more of a Harlander? Hard hard Lander? You know 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:42.760 that depends I guess Harlanders, great Harlander, Um, yeah, cooking 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.040 there and then you would put it on egg noodles. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.560 You'd put it on toast, oddly shot on a shingle 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.760 with squirrel, shingle being the toad godfair and Southern has 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.920 ever done that? That can't be true. I don't know 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.160 any put it on noodles or put it on toast both. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.199 Really you put it on a biscuit. But they cooked 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:12.000 it down, they've done you know, Yeah, I think so, 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.680 I think so. But you would never put it on 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.480 a piece of toast. You put it on a biscuit, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:20.680 because I know, damn sure you do that. Well, tried 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.960 on toast. I'm the shingle being, you know, and the 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.880 toast and you put the uh. We would do that. 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:34.720 My mother would. Um. My mom had a recipe card. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.360 I bet she still has it. She had a recipe 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:41.480 card that she got from her mother. And her mother 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.679 got it from the package that some frozen rabbit came 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:51.559 in from the store thirties. It was like Hassan Feffer. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.280 It was like rabbit, and it was like, hey, here's 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:55.360 what you do at the rabbit. It was like a 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.600 recipe card. And my mom said it was stuck onto 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.480 a package, and they liked it so much she cut 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.520 it out. And that's how she would cook cotton tail 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.160 rabbits if she was cooking them. And she would cook 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.800 squirrels and we'd eat hoss and fever with them, and 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.640 then we would eat them. And my dad's deep friar 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.880 a lot, and sometimes my mom would brown him. Like 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.480 you're saying, do exactly what you're talking about. This is 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.320 how my brother Matt likes to cook. Him still do 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.000 everything you're talking about now. He doesn't know what he 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:24.840 doesn't do. The double dip chrome, double dip deal single dip, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:31.480 single dip um in a pan, then finished them in 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.960 a three degree oven for a long time, covered in foil. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:43.320 Mm hmm, and it's it tenderizes them. But that works. Okay, 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.240 moving on a little bit. You're good on that, Ni. Well, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:51.320 I did have one follow up on cooking squirrel. You 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.600 treat a young squirrel and an old squirrel the same. 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.679 You wouldn't if you wanted him to taste good. Oh 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:05.839 I mean again, I'm I'm my squirrel cooking has been. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.040 We killed the squirrel, We're gonna eat it. We're not 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.880 gonna be that worried about, you know, the culinary aspect 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.200 of it. The joy inside of this is just we 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.600 killed the squirrel and we're gonna eat it. It's that simple. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.640 So so sometimes if you cook it the way that 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.240 I have described as my buddy Michael Lanier says, big 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.000 squirrel hunter hunt with some as he said, when you 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.079 get one like that, you just pitch it to the dogs, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.480 a tough one. Yeah. How does he know it's gonna 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.720 be a tough one? Well, he bite it. Oh, I 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.320 got you, I got you. Yeah. And if if it's 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.840 just super tough, and then they will be. And sometimes 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.640 you can't completely tell, but an older squirrel, So I 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.280 don't I don't have any tricks for tenderizing older squirrels. 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.840 If that's where we were going, you know, are you 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.680 familiar with Oh no, I was gonna say that. My 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.360 only trick is that I look at him like that 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.160 one is a it's gonna go into the slow cooker file, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.360 and that one is a young tender one and I'll 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.560 fry it or grill it or whatever. Do you remember 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.920 the term the fell? The fell? No? Uh. We we 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.440 used to have a really old neighbor in Miles City, Montana. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:19.600 This guy was so old. Um, I'm trying to think 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.520 there's a couple boys I can describe how old he was. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.000 I'll tell you this way to tell you how old 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.320 he was. He was sold that he wants. They were 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.319 sawing firewood with a sawmill blade. They would pull the 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.439 wheel off a truck and jack the back of the 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:39.080 truck up. Wow, and run a sawmill blade by putting 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.880 the accelerator on the truck turn a saw blade. It's impressive. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:45.880 He was using this saw blade and cuts off his 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.480 thumb like back where he took the base of the 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.199 thumb with it. And his brother flicked that thumb into 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.040 the hogpen and the hog ate it. No, just to 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:05.600 get rid of it. That told he was so people 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.920 know to run off to the to the hospital. You 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.600 put it in butter milk. Just no doubt. You cut off, 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.440 you cut off anything, you put it in butter milk. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.240 That's what I've always heard. And he was a butcher. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.560 Um he was. He did cost him slaughter work. Here's 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.320 no way of telling how old he was. I've talked 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.080 with this guy a lot, but he was old that 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:30.440 he used to shoot horses, shoot wild horses and fat 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.920 and hogs on him, and was reluctant to send him 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.040 off to market with a belly full of horse meat 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.520 because of how it might look to the slaughterhouse people. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.120 So he'd give him barley for a while before selling them, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.960 so that no one knew he was fattening him on 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.360 horse meat. And he said that their condition worsened while 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.240 eating barley. He said, their tail wouldn't have a tight 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.400 of a corkscrew to it, and they're high to lose 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.840 a little bit of it. Chip. Is that a correlation 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.240 to how good the meat is, how type? He said 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.280 that he was a big proponent of uh so he 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.040 back then he was a little bit. He felt like 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.040 this practice was a little bit shady, he expressed, being 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.000 reluctant to send them off with a belly for the 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:18.400 horse meat. I don't know it. He that's how old 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.080 he was. I can tell you how old he was. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.440 He's about ninety three. But when at the time when 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.480 he passed away, so he described he would talk about 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.320 the fell on rabbits or the fell on squirrels, and 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.040 to be like the skin under the skin, m hm, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.160 you know what I'm saying, Like the what sits between 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.400 the muscle in the hide when you pull it off. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.440 And he would talk on rabbits that had the fell 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.800 was too thick, and he felt that was a rabbit 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.960 that wasn't very Would the fell actually be like the 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:59.120 layer of like fat me queeny, Yeah, the connective tissue 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.440 vis queeny membranes thing and he would point your rabbit, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.120 talk about they had a thick fell. It wasn't going 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.240 to be a good rabbit. Miriam. Miriam Webster defines it 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.280 as a thin, tough membrane covering a carcass directly under. 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.920 So he was right. I had no ideas right, he 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.080 got it right. I just thought it was like his 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.880 Oh the fell. It can also be a synonym for skin, 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:30.200 hide or pelt. Really, or if you if you fell 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:35.080 off your bike and scrape your felt, if the squirrel 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.000 fell out of the tree. Okay, taking a break from 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.720 that for a minute. Uh, Kevin, speaking of hogs, You 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:47.400 see that transitions nice. That's what they call sego called 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.720 pivot and found some folks called the pivot. I like 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.920 to think of it as a segue. Uh, you're fatting 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.880 some hogs? Have you? Have you been a lifelong hogan? No? 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.920 So I grew up Minnesota. Both my grandparents from dairy farms. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.280 So there dairy people. So why wasn't your parents from 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.920 Why weren't your parents from dairy farms? So my grandpa 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.679 and my grandma grew up on different farms, right, married, 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.440 and they moved off neighboring farms. Yeah, oh, Pole and 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.400 holding for Minnesota Germans, one town Polish and the other. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.119 There's a probably a lot of animosity between those, I 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.119 don't think so. I think they helped that. I think so. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.320 It was later later down the down the trail and 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.600 you heard a World War two heard of it? Yeah, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.200 so at that point they were probably his new immigrants 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.280 to the country. Yeah. I think they're like second, second 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:38.440 and third generation together. Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Uh. And they 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.440 grew up farming, met each other, fell in love, Yeah, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:46.160 moved to St. Cloud, Minnesota. So I got away from farming. Yeah, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.760 your parents got away from farming. Yeah. Yeah, Well my 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.240 grandparents got away from farming. They moved off my my 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.960 granddad's strung telephone wire from North Dakota down to so 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.040 they had to get away from farming, did yeah, for 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.800 like economic reason? Think so, I think so. And my 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.119 great uncle still runs the farm he's like ninety two, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.119 I think, so he's still up there. He's got two thumbs. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.439 He has two thumbs. So yeah, but yeah, so they 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.520 we had started raising hoggs last year as a twenty eight, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.000 so we just started last year and that was that 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.000 your was that your that's your girlfriend that your partnered 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.320 up with on hog rais. Yeah, yeah, we actually used her. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.000 Her folks live over in eastern Oregon where we moved 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.800 from UM and they've got a little chunk and ground 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.080 we've been raising some hogs on. So it's been great. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.080 And this is the second year, second year, Yep, it's 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.320 going well. So I hear I've been over too much, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.240 very easy. Did you know that I purchased one of 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.040 these hogs and I'm gonna give you a bunch of it. Yeah, no, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.560 but what a great surprise. I'm gonna share my I'm 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.600 gonna share my hog. I'm gonna share my hog with 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.760 the people that I work with. Nice's generous and he's 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.200 gonna he's gonna include all the fat. Yeah. So when 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.360 I make when I grind up venison, I'm gonna cut 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.359 in my my pig and do it right. We just 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.600 did East Pig are in or eastern eastern Oregon right now. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.919 And we just moved in May, so we this was 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.400 hogs were purchased prior to the move, so we didn't 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.560 really know where going yet. Are you gonna move your 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.480 hog operation closer to home or you have to get 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.240 out of it now? Man, I think we're gonna try 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.280 to keep in it, but we'll see. We gotta move 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:20.880 out of catching. We probably gotta go down to Hailey 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.000 or Bellevue or something like that. Just get you one 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.760 of those good privacy fences. Yeah, we want back there. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.800 We should backyard, we should. Yeah. So how many hogs 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.120 are you fattening? Three right now? And do you call 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.520 it fatten him? I think we just we're just calling 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:38.160 raising him. Just doesn't sound as cool as I know. Okay, 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.480 is this a business or is this a hobby farm? 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.680 It's hobby so it's a hobby however, but you're bowling yeah, yeah, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.320 But I don't think he's like you just turned it 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.879 into a bit. We're just covering costs most because he's like, no, 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.359 I bought it from him. I'm saying, I don't think 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:54.960 that if you asked him what he did for a living, 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:56.800 he'd probably say he works in first light, I thought 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.320 he says he's a hog man. That's right, that's right. 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.200 I just never uttered those words actually, just like I'm 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.800 not a chicken man. Yeah, that's a chicken man. But 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.159 you do. But I've been I've you've been known to 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.240 let eggs go to cover costs. Yeah, and that's what 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.040 we're all about, trying to cover the costs. And it's 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.719 really awesome because we had it to all our grind 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.760 for them. Yeah, that's what I'm interested in. Yeah. So 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.919 he took the bacon eggs. And I shouldn't say I 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.800 do this. My friend Jake Keys, who owns a butcher 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.600 shop in the Grand Organ, who's a phenomenal cutter. Um, 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.160 he add added all the hog bacon eggs from one 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.960 of our hogs to all the bacon ends, the bacon 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:41.800 eggs and bacon ends eggs, just your cut ends. He 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.280 added all those to our elk grind. Um, it's delicious. 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.040 Oh so he smoked it. Yeah, and then you made 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.119 your own bacon elk grind. Yeah. Have you noticed when 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.800 I've done that in the packs I've bought specifically bacon 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.199 end before, have you noticed it almost a grind? You 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.240 notice it mostly like when you do something like a burger, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.280 but that you almost get like it almost like firms 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.199 the burger up a little bit, the sausage up if 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.640 you get enough of that actual pork meat in there. Yeah, 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.000 and we've been kind of messing around with different percentages, um, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.840 you know, different percentages of pork in the actual olk grind. 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:14.800 But what do you what do you what do you 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.600 what are you going at? I think like ten to 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.400 fiftent is pretty good. That's why I feel like that's 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.040 industry standards. Yeah, but that's not full fat, that's yeah, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.399 it's like bacon end. So you're getting junks and muscle 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.159 in there as well. So yeah, it does add a 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:28.960 little bit of firmness to that burger. We actually just 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.560 did a little video clip at First Light about making 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.200 burgers over and open fire. So that was elk with 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:39.119 with your your port your own home raised pork. My 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.399 brother got all he got all snooty for a while, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.440 and I didn't want to put any any domestic meat 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.679 into his wild meat, which is like I get it, 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.840 but you know, like put eggs and ship in there. 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.840 But I mean, but he had chickens too, though, but 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.679 he put eggs in there to try to bind it, 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.080 but just help. It helps. Uh, it just helps to 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.240 add that fat in there. And we always would do ten, 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.240 you know, and you go to some guys and be like, 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:10.880 oh I do fifteen or twenty. But when you get 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:12.560 too much of it. I talked with this four, it 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.240 feels like it stops being a wild game and become 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:17.960 something else, like a blend is like is that wild game? 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:19.960 I don't know. Yeah, we feed a lot of folks 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.720 that come through and friends of ours that don't eat 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:24.639 a lot of wild games. So I feel like a 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.479 little bit of bacon in there is always a good 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.359 entry level, especially with elk. You don't hardly need it, 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.560 but good entry level piece of wild game to serve 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.879 those kinds of people. How big is my pig gonna be? 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.040 We'll probably killing me like to to fifty somewhere around there. 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.960 And then are you gonna charge me on the hoof 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:43.920 guts in and everything? Or how do you do think it's? 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.840 It's based off anyway? So what are you gonna charge me? 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:48.639 I don't know yet. I gotta look at the books. 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.160 That's more silly as departs. So you just starts following 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.720 the commodities market. You're setting it off that you're setting 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.320 it off global pork prices. That's right. Well, last year 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.600 in the driver's seat, Okay, you've got this sale before 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.639 you even told him the costs. That's right, that's right. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:10.120 I roped him right in that. I'm a hogman. Now, yeah, 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.600 we used to I worked at a brewery before first light, 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:14.480 and I was doing a handful of things and we 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.600 get all that spent and grain, so all that barley 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:18.240 actually with all the sugar out of it. I was 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:20.440 like a start over again. Now, we used to work 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.159 at a brewery, right for a first light. There's this 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:27.000 stuff called spent grain. What's that you said, we used 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:28.840 to work at a brewer. Well, I worked at actually Silia, 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:30.640 and my girlfriend worked at the brewery as well. She's 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:34.639 on the front end of Cilia. Cilia. How'd you spell that? 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.560 S I l j E. Yeah, she's from North Norway. 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:41.040 Her families from Norway. Okay, yeah, I met her. Yeah, 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.080 I liked her. She's awesome. Um. So you guys used 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:46.520 the word to brewery yep um. And so I worked 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:48.840 on the business side and I would take all the 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:53.480 spent grain, which is brewery grain. Mash that's been brewed 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.160 through UM and bring that to the hogs and they 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.480 love that and it has some nutritional values, just a 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:00.320 little bit all the sugars out of it. It's kind 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.080 of just like a filler, a fattener if you will, 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.680 so work pretty good. Where do you feed in mine? 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.320 They're getting a blend from this guy named what do 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:10.440 You Wolf? If he raises barley and what do you wolf? 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:12.880 What do you Wolf? That's a good name. Yeah, great guy. 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.520 He's in the lower Rollawa Valley. UM. He actually raises 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:20.920 all the grain for the Carmen Corey Carmen's hog operation, 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.640 which is in in Willao County as well. Is something 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:25.800 that I would know about, probably not. She does a 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:27.719 lot of like grass fed beef and that sort of thing. 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.200 She's entered entered quite a few markets with that products. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.600 They have a hog side to UM. So you're not 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:35.960 feeding any kind of restaurant slop right now. A little 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.280 bit of compost here there, you know, ends of like salad, 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.000 greens and things like that, and then how are you 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:44.520 gonna kill it? There's a guy named Dale who's got 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.680 a mobile slaughter operation. It's pretty awesome. He comes through 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.840 kills its skins, It brings it to Jake, and Jake 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.560 takes care of their ast. So how much space is 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:55.560 my pig have to run around on? Quite a bit, 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.000 It's like acre and a half. There's three of them, 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:00.200 so it's pretty good. They tend to want to stick 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.200 into the shade this time of year because it's pretty 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.680 pretty hot. So have you named my pig? No? No? 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:08.159 Do you know the one that's mine? Ah? Yeah, I 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:13.120 think so, I start scraggly looking one. I'm just kidding. Hey, 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.320 I'm gonna advise that you feed it a little bit 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:19.880 of Asian food right before you slot. Okay, I just 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.080 I just I just hear people. I hear people talk 0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:28.560 lil Asian food just fattens him, fattens him up, flavors 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:33.160 them up right. I'm kind of joking. I like you said, 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:36.360 he said, He said that he didn't feed him any 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:43.320 like restaurant slop. Do what you're doing, Yeah, about three 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:47.600 weeks before you give it a little Asian food. The 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.360 point of the Grandma story was they used to take 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:54.959 the skim off of their milk, like the thick, and 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:58.320 they would throw that in as as their main food 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.879 source without mixed with old oats. So that was probably 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.479 pretty delicious pork, I imagine, I think, way to bring 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.920 it back. Thanks dude, that was he should host this thing. 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:13.040 That was good. I appreciate it. But you know what 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.040 was bad about it is he took the damn long 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:18.800 that it wasn't fresh in people's minds that while you 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:22.080 were talking about your grandma. That's right. So you went 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:25.040 from there, and then you've been with First Light essence 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.119 about may. I just started with those guys actually, just 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:30.879 as as we were kind of marrying up these two operations. 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:33.080 So I feel like we're cousins now. Yeah, I think 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:36.680 we are. I think we are kissing cousins, all right. 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:40.360 And then you're liking it over there, loving it. It's 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:42.600 the best job I've ever had, for sure. Oh yeah, 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:44.840 hands down. I mean I just got back from a 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.320 week in Texas access to deer hunting, so it's pretty 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.639 damn good. And you were at work, Yeah, that was 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.159 at work. Um, I can't I can't talk about it. 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:54.960 But we looked at a bunch of the new First 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:57.440 Light stuff coming out. Yeah, I guess we can talk 0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:59.960 about just that. It's there, it's in development, so we're 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:01.960 working hard. On that. We got a whole new robust 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:04.760 program for gear testing, and I'm really excited about that. 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:06.240 We're gonna get it to a lot of key guys. 0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:08.040 And it sounds like you guys are gonna wear it 0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:11.920 somewhere this week. You're heading somewhere. Yeah, Um, we're heading 0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:16.159 up Me and my wife and children, Brodie Henderson and 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:18.919 his wife and children, and then my wife's buddy and 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:24.600 her husband and children are going up to our fish shack. Um, 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:28.919 and I'm gonna wear that new summertime ish. Yeah, that's 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:31.119 a good way to put on that new summertime. Feeling 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.800 too too much. You guys are leading in U into 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.240 the Texas market. Yeah, it's been been spending quite a 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:39.800 bit of time. Actually, just I can tell you. I 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:41.280 can tell you guys have been hanging out in Texas 0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:44.880 and you've got some clothes that are like, yeah, we're 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:49.359 getting close set that wasn't hot in Texas. Yeah at 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.399 the latest gear me and they're like, so what do 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:58.080 you guys think about some elephant skin boots rhino Ostrich. Yeah, 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.639 that was yeah, that was a The one of the 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:03.720 more shocking things about Texas is all the things you 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:07.119 can make boots out of the man's, isn't it. I'm 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.560 kind of thing about going in that direction. Yeah. I 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:11.880 don't know, man, you don't know if I could really 0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:15.120 pull it off, like wearing boots of all different critter types. 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:16.879 Like if I was sitting here and you said that, hey, 0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.960 one of those boots made out of and I was like, elephant. Yeah, 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:21.480 I feel like you'd be like that. I was a 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:25.879 little bit of a poser well, being from Michigan. I 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:27.560 work at Bay Boots once in a while, but they're 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.680 just leather, you know, I just made out of cow's hide. Yeah, 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.120 I just got ease into it. Maybe. Yeah. I don't 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.320 even know if I could. I can't even pull that off. Yeah, 0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:36.200 I think that would be the harder part, More than 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.479 worrying about what species it was. It just be like, 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.440 are you comfortable in some high heels? This is legit 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:47.120 choice though, Yeah, but your neck of the woods. Yeah yeah, 0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:49.120 they're comfortable though. But you have the right person, you 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:52.480 have the right personality and everything for it, and these 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.560 are just leather. Listen. I mean you get into like 0:28:55.600 --> 0:29:01.320 the guys wearing like the ant eater boots, boots growing 0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:06.760 up eaters. Oh yeah, my god. I mean used to. 0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.360 I remember as a kid sitting around and the guys 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:12.800 used to wear shorter pants and they do now. So 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.720 my uncles would have their legs crossed, and so you 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.160 could see like almost the entire boot, you know, when 0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:21.000 they their legs crossed, like the upper leg over the 0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:25.520 knee boot is then exposed. I remember my dad being like, 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.560 look at his ant eater boots. I mean to me, 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:32.600 it was just like that is top level, that's you know, 0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:35.920 you made. I've never I've never had anything other than 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:43.000 leather though, just uh yeah, I mean I I've had boots, 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:47.200 but I started wearing cowboy boots probably I don't know, 0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:49.800 eight or nine years ago. I mean, like where wearing 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:52.320 them casually? And where are they comfortable? Like right off 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:56.240 the bat, like acquired. It's an acquired taste. I mean 0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:59.280 it's it's partially. I mean, I'm of the firm belief 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:03.000 that I'm man ought to be wearing leather boots, leather 0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:08.920 shoes of some sort. Almost all the time. I'm uncomfortable. 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:11.400 Like I have sandals. I mean I like sandals. Don't 0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:16.800 get me wrong. You'll see me, You'll see me with sandals, 0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:22.479 But quit wearing flip flops a few days ago for 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:26.840 the same reasons that you're okay, Well, why do you 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.080 wear leather boots? Man, I was gonna wear you defend 0:30:30.080 --> 0:30:32.440 your family. Man, I'm serious. When I wear these, I 0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:36.160 feel like I'm wearing like armor. Like I was yesterday. 0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:38.440 I was gonna when I was fine up here, I 0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:40.320 was like, man, I'll just wear my tennis shoes. I 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:43.240 have some shoes for like running these different things. And 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:44.600 I was like, man, I can't do it. I'm gonna 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:46.440 wear the boots. I mean, if it, if it goes 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:51.000 fisticuff somewhere, I need these. I mean, I'm being serious. 0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:54.680 I'm not I want to talk about Ronnie Beam anyway, 0:30:54.720 --> 0:31:01.280 so I'll start now. Um. He like he always asked himself, 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:05.120 am I ready for a volcano to erupt? And when 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:08.920 he has uh, I can't remember. He has some crazy 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:11.080 word for flip flops, but anyways, He's like, I just 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.920 don't feel like I'm ready for that occurrence. And the 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:16.479 other day, a longtime friend of mine who I've been 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:19.959 hanging out with for forever, I was sitting there, we 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:22.400 were having dinner, and I had flip flops and he said, man, 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:24.920 just like really surprises me to see you and flip 0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:30.440 flops and he's from Montana. That who this friend is 0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:35.960 Dave McKay. So Dave McKay's from Montana. And he was 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:39.320 with his wife in New York once and they went 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:44.120 into a comedy store, comedy show right to watch stand up, 0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:47.080 and the stand up guy sees Dave and Dave's got 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:50.080 flip pops on and he yelled, where are you from 0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:54.040 because you're not from here. It's not from Montana. And 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:56.040 he goes, and you're gonna defend your wife in those shoes, 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:00.080 And it got to him and him pointed out to me, 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.760 got to me that, like, you're not ready for action. 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:08.760 It's true, he's not ready for action, and he strap on. 0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.160 I got on, Now I'm ready for action. You can 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:17.560 move in those yeah, spring over and defend him and 0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:20.520 he'll be falling over his flip pops. Oh, I forgot this. 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.520 The day we went to dinner, I had tripped twice 0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.520 in my flip flops, fell off a curb and tripped 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:31.640 coming through a doorway. It was top of mind. Yeah, well, 0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:35.760 I didn't know that other people shared my sentiments about shoes. 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:37.440 I mean, really, I've never I don't know that I've 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:39.840 ever like verbalized when I just said being ready for 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.360 a yeah, but it's very real. The first guy that 0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:44.680 ever brought this to my attention was Donnie the wild 0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:47.480 Man McConnell, who I've talked about before. Was that just 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.479 the guy that would so pistol pockets into his leather vest, 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:55.520 that's the guy. That's the guy. Yeah. He says that 0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:59.520 he wouldn't do anything. He wouldn't even get ready for bed. Yeah, 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:03.040 he said, he just laid down. Yeah, there wasn't even 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.680 sleeping bag on his bunk. And I don't always try that. 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.800 When I was just starting there, I would trying to 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.200 always steal that bunk, and they'd like, no, it's Donnie's bunk. 0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:12.479 He's he's just for gets. There's like nothing there besides 0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:17.280 an ash tray and some empty coke cans and empty Budweisers. 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:20.040 And uh, that was how his day went, was when 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:23.320 he when he would finish the day with Budweisers and 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:25.640 some cigarettes, and he would take his boots off and 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:30.160 lay down jacket with in this pistol pocket and all. 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.080 And then when your alarm and go off, you get 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:34.400 up and we'd spend fifteen minutes getting our ship on, 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.120 getting all geared up and brushing our teeth, and he 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:39.360 like donning breakfast, you know, and he just sit up, 0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.600 put his boots on, light a cigarette, crack of coke, 0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:48.560 and be gone. That man, that's like the Mitch Hedberg joke. 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:50.960 He wanted to get clothes made out of blankets. Yeah, 0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.120 so ahead, so at night he didn't need to do anything. 0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:01.200 Um oh, my thing about Ronnie Bam. Did you guys 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:05.120 notice that you know what a trombo is? No, a 0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:10.120 trombo trombo You ever spent much time in Mexico or Greece. Nope, 0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:16.560 you know you know what Tacos l pass store is not. 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:21.200 Really you can help me out here, man, just go 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:30.960 with the hero I'm talking about the spiraling. Okay, the engineers, 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:37.800 let's go lace ups. He's reads the fan piel is 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:39.680 gonna spring out of that little booth there and coming 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:43.680 in that Phil is gonna be coming in to the rescue. 0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:49.520 So it's like you take you slice a bunch of meat, 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:53.319 thin thin slice, not cooked, which is raw slice, raw meat, 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:55.960 thin slice, and you marinate it and then you put 0:34:56.040 --> 0:34:58.279 it and you stack it on this skewer and so 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.520 it winds up being on the skew were in the 0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:04.239 shape of a giant pineapple. And I say that because 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.080 they often put slices of pineapple in there. And then 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:11.439 it turns vertically on a spit. And you gotta either 0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:18.759 a propane burner or charcoal that's oriented vertically. And this 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:22.000 thing turns on a spit with a vertically oriented heater. 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:25.480 And then when it's kind of like and then you're 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:28.240 just ready, that thing's just running around the clock. Okay, 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:30.560 so you you put that. We usaid when we started 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:32.399 first started travel to Mexico, we called it a pork 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.120 rock because it looks like a giant rock man out 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:38.200 of pork um. And that spit turns and when you 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:41.240 go to make a taco, you just hold the taco 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:45.160 up against the rock of meat and and it's all 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:46.800 stacked like if you put one hand on top of 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:48.759 your hand and another hand on top looks like this 0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:50.960 is a solid piece of meat, you can't really tell. 0:35:51.120 --> 0:35:54.759 But then you slice also vertical slices off, so you're 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:57.160 just taking the ends of all this stuff that the 0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.839 part that's cooked, and you slice the cook part onto 0:35:59.920 --> 0:36:03.879 a taco, or you slice it into a euro Um. 0:36:04.160 --> 0:36:07.720 And that device, that cooking piece of equipment I recently 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:10.960 learned is even though I owned one, is a trombo. 0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:16.399 So Ronnie Bam. When I got married all those years ago, uh, 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:18.680 we had you know, you'll have like a party. No, 0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:20.600 we had a party the day I got married. Before 0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:22.760 I got married, so we had a party before the party. 0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:25.400 And at this party, my brother took a bunch of 0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:29.520 deer meat and Ronnie Beam welded us up a trombo 0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:34.160 out of stainless steele and it was a hand turn 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:39.360 kind you had a hand crank it. So we cooked 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:41.440 a bunch of venison tacos like this, and then I 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:43.640 kind of forgot about it for eleven years. But I 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:45.880 was just home at my mom's and found the trombo 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:48.600 and the pole barn brought it back here and had 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:52.520 a fabricator here in Bozeman named Travis Barton, who's a fireman. 0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:54.160 Yanni introduced me to him. He did a lot of 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:57.880 the metalwork at Yanni's house. When Yanni remodeled UM, he 0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:01.480 raised it on a higher let eggs and put a 0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:05.680 rotisserie motor so you don't need to hand turn it anymore. 0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:10.399 Single single speed. Can you regulate the speed? Just single speed? 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:21.560 It's about this fast? Mak it sounds like but smooth like? No. Uh. 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:25.480 And I'm gonna make a mountain lion. Oh, I'm gonna 0:37:25.520 --> 0:37:28.440 make a pork rock out a mountain lion. I like it. 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:36.439 That's gonna be good. Yeah, we already started that. Ladies 0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:43.080 and gentlemen, Okay, how do you describe? Uh? Do do 0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:47.000 you say you're from the Ozarks? Yeah? Yeah, I live 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:52.680 in the Ozarks? Now, hunt and the washing Toss something 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:55.080 I wanted to bring, But that's Kevin. You don't have 0:37:55.520 --> 0:37:59.319 pronounced that mountain range the wash toss. He he didn't. 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.680 He didn't see the spelling. I called the au cheetahs. Yeah, 0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:07.320 so if you saw the spelling, it's spelled. Oh you 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.279 a c H I t A. You mentioned how we 0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:12.879 mispronounced it was me because I don't think I would 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:15.200 venture to try to pronounce. Well. I don't want to 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:18.560 name any names here, but it was a guy that 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.560 was from the Ozarks and he mispronounced. Well, you you 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:26.000 mispronounced it and he didn't correct you, and he was like, yeah, 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:28.120 that's the way you said. Who was it? Man? I 0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:29.879 honestly can't remember. It was on one of the turkey 0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:33.200 hunting episode y'all did with Brandon Butler, but there was 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.000 he the one that It wasn't Brandon. I'm not throwing 0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:37.600 Brandon on the was it a guy that was the 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:40.560 other guy, our friend Steve Jones, the Wild Game chef. 0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:44.320 I don't Parker Hall. No, it wasn't Parker. It was 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.960 were narrowing it. It was a guy that was a 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.560 turkey hunter. He was describing how he called turkeys with 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:56.040 his mouth, but it was kind of like it felt 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.000 like it was kind of he didn't really know, but 0:38:58.080 --> 0:38:59.480 it was kind of just like, yeah, that's the way 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:04.320 he said, guys uck. What's that? Guys uck? May have 0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.319 been so you're so polite you don't want to say 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:08.040 who did it? Well, I mean, I just hate to 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.120 throw the guy under the bus, But at the same 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:14.160 time vowed to my people that if it ever came 0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:16.920 to it, I would I would would bring back the 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:21.640 honor of the wash Ittals. So oh you a he 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:25.520 starts with a w. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks like 0:39:25.600 --> 0:39:30.360 oha cheetahs, chah cheetah and say wash it talk like 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:36.560 with a hard w wash wash yeah yeah, yeah, why 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:38.919 don't you guys just spell it different? Man? We didn't. 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:41.600 We just we're just some messengers. Man, this is a 0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:45.840 chock talk. Well, actually, there's three things that they that 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:50.160 they say that. First of all, it is a transliteration 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:53.880 of a Catto Indian word for wash it talk explain 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.880 cattle Indian. It's just a it's just a type of 0:39:57.120 --> 0:40:02.120 Native American that lived in Southeast Catto Indian. Yeah, try 0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:04.440 like Choctaw cherry. And I was like when you when 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.360 they talk about language types like Proto Indo European or 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.239 so it's a trans It's a French transliteration of the 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:14.279 way the Cattos said wash ital and they said it 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:16.440 with a W. But it's a bunch of French guys 0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:18.840 over here that said, oh, we're gonna spell it o 0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:21.760 U A c h I t A and it actually 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:27.279 means good hunting grounds. Yeah, so there's three things. There's 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:32.440 another guy that says that the O U A c 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.520 is the choc Tall word for buffalo, and it actually 0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:41.400 means buffalo hunting grounds given a throwback to the woodland buffalo, 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:47.360 which totally was in Arkansas buffalo. And then, um, the 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.800 third there's three possibilities and there's no agreement on truly 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.919 what it means. The third one is another choc tall 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:58.880 word that they think it means far away hunting ground. 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:03.200 That's that's what I got. Like ozark man the French 0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:06.040 like named a bunch of stuff back in that country. 0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:10.920 So the word ozark describes a bend in the Arkansas River. 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:13.600 Arkansas River flows, it doesn't really flow north, but there's 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:17.839 a north trending bend in the Arkansas River and they 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:21.719 called it ox Arc. They called this region above the 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:26.880 arc ox arc a u x arc French. And so 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:31.279 the trans well it grew into the Ozarks. So the 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:36.000 Ozarks are north there above the ark Ship. So those 0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.399 are the two I like them all. Those are the two. 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:41.040 Those are the two mountain ranges in Arkansas. And they're 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:44.239 very different. I could totally nerd out about the differences 0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:51.040 and or culturally geologically sometimes those are inseparable though right right, 0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:55.600 they're similar enough in size and and like the geology 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:59.160 will shape the culture in some ways. Absolutely. Yeah. Now, 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:03.200 so the y stalls where are in east west running 0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:07.160 mountains uh formed from uplift when the when the South 0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:10.200 American continent bumped into the North American continent, and it's 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:13.319 the only mountain range between the Appalachians and the Rocky 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:16.040 Mountains that runs east and west. And so what happens 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:19.080 when you're hunting in the Washingtalls is you have two 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:22.280 very different types of terrain because you have these southern 0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:25.760 facing slopes and then north facing slopes, because the mountains 0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:28.879 are running east and west with me. So the north 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:33.440 it's like really thick, moist, vegetative, not as much strict sun. 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:38.040 The south sides are arid, have a lot of pine, blueberry, 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:41.840 a little bit more open, so that critters used that 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:45.040 different terrain in different ways. Pretty interesting that you go 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:46.840 up hung along the rim where you're kind of tapping 0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:49.839 into both. Yeah. Well that's the other feature of these 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:52.200 mountains is that they're formed by uplift, so they're these 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.480 like hogback ridges, and so there's these real distinct tops 0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:59.319 which are usually fairly flat but but small. So either 0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:01.480 walking straight it up are you're walking straight down the 0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:04.200 other side, but there'll be you know, these flat tops, 0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:07.080 and critters travel on them. So you hunt the tops 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:09.200 of these mountains quite a bit. You know, while you 0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:11.200 were talking about all that stuff reminds me of two 0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:15.719 good pieces of barroom banter. One being you talk about 0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:18.719 the buffalo hunting, you know where that word comes from? 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:20.800 What they're one of the ways they think that buffalo 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.640 came about. I read your book. I shouldn't know, but uh, 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:28.440 good for making buffalo leather. M But there's even occurrences 0:43:28.480 --> 0:43:32.279 where people called man and teese buffs thick leather. Now 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.719 buffalo wasn't the Native American word for it. This was 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:39.160 an English word. Yeah, they would call him buffs. You 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:41.360 just spelled all kinds of different ways, and the eventually 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:44.640 became buffalo. But it's something good for making buffalo leather. 0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:48.520 Um like thick leather, you know. And the everything you're 0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:51.319 talking about, like the geology. Have you ever read uh, 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:56.680 Animals of the Former World by Geo McPhee. It explains 0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:59.240 all the geography in the US. They want a Pultz 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:03.239 front different east to west than won a Pulitzer. But 0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:07.000 it was the interesting thing in there where um, you know, 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:11.200 Alaska kind of a created and docked up. It was 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:13.239 a bunch of islands, just a big mishmash of ship. 0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:16.840 The decreed did and docked up against our continent and 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:20.479 then rolled north on a transform fault. And I can't remember. 0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:25.719 I think in eighty seven million years Japan we'll have 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:31.680 a created all of the illusions and slammed into Alaska. Yeah, 0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:36.400 all them bears and everything going to be in Japan, 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:44.480 which is in Alaska. Uh, how'd you getting none? Man? 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:46.600 I grew up. It's just I grew up with it 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:49.759 my dad. I always say that my dad was bow 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:54.400 hunting before bow hunting was cool. Uh he so, I 0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:58.200 mean I I grew up bow hunting for white tail deer. 0:44:58.440 --> 0:45:01.640 My dad got into hunt to stick. No, no, that's new. 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:05.359 My dad is like totally a compound like speed guy. 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:09.680 My my movement into traditional archery probably is a little 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:15.080 bit of a throwback from his his uh kind of 0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:19.800 the the intricacies and he took he takes tuning bows 0:45:19.800 --> 0:45:21.960 and all this kind of to the extreme. I never 0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:23.759 really liked that side of it. I wanted it to 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:27.000 be simple, and so I still shoot compound and love it. 0:45:27.480 --> 0:45:30.719 But my dad shot a reeker before compounds came out, 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:33.399 and then he rolled into compounds hard. Now see that's 0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:35.520 the way these guys think though, Like my dad is like, 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:37.879 why the heck would you want to go backwards? Because 0:45:37.920 --> 0:45:40.320 that's where he started to you know, shooting these traditional 0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:43.040 bows that they couldn't kill anything with. And then so 0:45:43.239 --> 0:45:52.600 to go backwards just the forty years. Yeah yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:55.000 we grew up deerhund. We had a place in northern Minnesota, 0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:56.840 so we kind of grew up in that North Belt 0:45:56.920 --> 0:46:02.399 country of just honey, small racked, big bodied white tails, 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:04.880 and then really got into waterfall hunting in high school 0:46:05.160 --> 0:46:07.640 because it's accessible where I lived. You run right for 0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:10.000 the get go, Yeah, yeah, right right away. It's been 0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:12.359 a part of my family for a long time m hm, 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:15.320 because you had access to those farms. Yeah. Yeah, a 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:17.200 lot of good pheasant hunting, a lot of good duck hunting, 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:20.400 pretty good deer hunting. Not as good as Iowa and 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:24.800 on the west actually, but it's great, good way not 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:27.799 as good, yeah, at least in northern Minnesota. Oh yeah, 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.680 I'm with yeah, still pretty good though, great for the 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:34.279 camaraderie sense from the deer camp since uh, not as 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:37.800 big a deer for sure, but great great deer populations. Certainly. 0:46:37.960 --> 0:46:40.920 Are you guys in wolf area? Yeah yeah, certainly has 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:42.719 that changed a lot for real? Or can't you even 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:44.480 look at it for real? Because you're still wrapped up 0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:48.560 in the differences. That's a loaded question, I think. Um, 0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:51.000 if you talk to people up there, they'll say it 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:55.200 has impacted it tremendously. Um, But I think in my case, 0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:57.879 I haven't seen it to the point where it's made 0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:02.439 the deer hunting in my lifetime that that different. Yeah, 0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:06.360 it feels different. Yeah, certainly feels different. Yeah. Yeah, And 0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:08.920 I would say that my experience in the West, specifically 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:12.080 in Oregon, with with wolf free introduction has been my 0:47:12.320 --> 0:47:14.239 My experience in the short time I've lived out there 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:19.719 has changed traumatic, like pretty dramatically. Let's say, yeah, where 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:22.480 we go ahead, Well, I might I want to name 0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:26.520 an example, Like, what's the common thing you've seen change? 0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:30.920 I think in eastern Oregan specifically, it's just the balance 0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:35.160 back between the ranching community and and sort of the 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.800 introduction of wolves. It's a obviously a slippery slope conversation, 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.160 but they've been impacted in a different way than they 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:44.560 haven't been in the last fifty years. UM. From a 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:47.040 hunting standpoint, A lot of guys will say, oh, those 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.680 alcal quatter in this area now, which I think I've 0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:54.279 had a few experiences with that. Although it's you know anecdotal, 0:47:54.360 --> 0:47:58.200 it's not based off science. So, UM, I think my 0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:00.880 experience in in see Ean wolves to have seen a 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:02.960 couple in eastern Oregon. That's different when than when I 0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:05.360 started hunting there when I was a nineteen and I 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:08.719 didn't see wolves until two years ago. Um, just quite 0:48:08.719 --> 0:48:11.640 a few. Now you started hunting organ when you're nineteen. Yeah, 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:13.400 I was out there to fight fire when I was 0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:15.720 in college, So that was the first time ever stepped 0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:18.120 foot in Oregon for real. So I was spending mostly 0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:20.879 about May through and in September there and then going 0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:25.239 back to school. I heard my first wolf from my 0:48:25.400 --> 0:48:30.880 deck a couple of nights ago, just to two howls, 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:33.239 and there's just happened. I was out there watching a 0:48:33.480 --> 0:48:36.399 small herd of elk, and every single one of those 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:40.040 mature cows was looking down the hill and across the drainage. 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:42.880 Nobody was eating, nobody had their heads down, everybody was 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:45.560 just staring. When that wolf was out, but he only 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:50.520 it only it howled twice. Now is that? Yeah? Such 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:55.440 a different sound too. It's pretty remarkable. Uh. You got 0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.640 like your grandpa's a big hunter. My grandfather was a 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:02.839 quail hunter, that's all he hunted. Really, that's that's all 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:09.160 he out of luck now, uh yeah, yeah, Well, so 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.640 there was a time in the South when I mean 0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:15.759 the heyday of quail hunting would have been from the 0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:19.359 forties to well nineteen eighties. Do you regard yourself as 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:22.000 being from the South, Yeah, it's really I mean I 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:24.880 do being from Arkansas, but I mean, you know, I 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:32.080 can drive twenty miles and technically well yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:36.200 Arkansas is it's definitely not Deep South where I live. 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:38.400 But I live in northwest Arkansas on the mountains, and 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:41.320 so the mountain culture truly is not Deep South. You 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:44.800 get into the Arkansas Delta, you absolutely would feel like 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:47.480 you're in the Deep South. This is very different. But 0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:51.600 also my my grandfather, he was a renowned bird dog trainer, 0:49:52.360 --> 0:49:54.040 and that's all he did. I mean, they would they 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:56.560 would go out there were I mean he talks about 0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:59.520 going out and you know, finding nine covees of quail 0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:02.480 and day and you know, several guys killing their limits 0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:06.960 of quail, and then about night the quail world just 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:11.400 started to dry up. And um, I had bird dogs. 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:14.239 When I got my first bird dog when I was 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:16.920 in sixth grade, got it from my grandfather, And we 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:20.160 actually had two or three cuvees of quail back behind 0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:23.120 our house. And uh, my dad wouldn't let me take 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:25.360 the shotgun. At that time, there were had some houses. 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:29.759 It was kind of suburban, rural Arkansas. And so I 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:33.680 would take that dog out and we pointed quail during 0:50:33.719 --> 0:50:37.200 the winter. I mean, I probably didn't go out every day, 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:40.040 but I feel like I did. Snow undergrown. No not 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:44.920 not not in Arkansas. Really, I thought we do get 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:46.520 a little bit, but not a lot. I mean just 0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:51.200 a few days a year. Well yeah, but he so, 0:50:51.360 --> 0:50:53.399 he he is the one that really introduced my dad. 0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:55.680 He my grandfather did some squirrel hunting, but he was 0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:57.600 he was a bird dog man. I mean that's like 0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:01.560 in the South. That was like a like a nobleman's sport, 0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:04.239 you know. And then he was a trainer and then 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:07.719 was the affluent. Tell me what you mean by that, 0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:10.600 Like was he When you say, what was the word 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:13.160 you used, I said, it was a nobleman's sport, I 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:15.480 mean like affluent. Was he wealthy? No? No, No, he 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:18.360 was a He was a biology teacher for a public 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:20.439 school and a pastor and a pastor of a church. 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:23.520 When he said like noble. This noble in the sense 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:27.080 of like this is a this is not no no 0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:31.400 no YEA good good clarification there. But but he and 0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:35.920 part of truly what influenced still influences me today is 0:51:35.960 --> 0:51:38.560 that I watched my grandfather the last twenty five years 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:43.400 of his life lament the demise of the animal that 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:47.759 he loved. Really, I mean, I didn't know that conservation 0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:50.600 was cool. I didn't know that. I mean, it's just 0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:53.360 what happened before me. But every time I talked to 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:55.320 him and would be like, man back, and he was. 0:51:55.800 --> 0:51:57.680 It wasn't like he was embittered against it or he 0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:01.160 like he hunted just the same when there were no 0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:03.520 birds as he did when there were lots of birds. 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:05.600 I mean, it wasn't like he was like, I'm getting 0:52:05.640 --> 0:52:07.640 rid of the dogs, there's no more quail. He he 0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:09.960 hunted until the He didn't huntil the day that he 0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:12.840 died when he was ninety four. But but he was 0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:15.120 a he was a good man, good good dog trainer. 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:19.400 What uh, I don't want to ask what his idea 0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:22.440 was about what happened to the quail, but like what 0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:24.239 you take on what happened to the quail? There are 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:26.239 so many different versions. You know what I mean. Do 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:29.239 you remember you read something that I sent to you 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:33.720 one time and it's pretty to think about the fire ants. Nope, 0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:38.320 but a habitat mine had to do with invasive grasses 0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:41.719 fence posts. So I mean basically, back in the day, 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:44.320 there was no fescu and bermuda grass, and because of 0:52:44.360 --> 0:52:47.360 the cow calf operations that all these farms have turned 0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:51.080 to in the last forty years, cow calf operations in 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:54.680 Arkansas need fescu and bermuda grass. It's just the best. 0:52:55.200 --> 0:53:00.759 And those grasses it's just it's just hardy, it's nutritious, 0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:05.759 it grows like crazy. That's what everything is. I mean 0:53:06.040 --> 0:53:08.080 right now, you go and look at any grass and 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:11.319 it's gonna be some type of fescue or bermuda, which 0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:14.239 are both invasive grasses and their turf type grasses, which 0:53:14.280 --> 0:53:18.160 means they grow by rhizomes. So what the quail would 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.200 have been used to back in the day before these 0:53:20.239 --> 0:53:23.400 invasive grasses would have been clump grasses, and so clump 0:53:23.480 --> 0:53:27.480 grasses provided uh places for the birds to move through. 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:29.960 We see, like I'll hear you from the people on 0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:34.600 bunch grasses. Yeah, I mean just the native grasses of Arkansas, 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:37.719 like orchard grass and some of the some of the 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:41.680 sage UH would have, they would not have grown in 0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:44.400 like these continuous patches. Like even if it looked like 0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:46.439 a continuous patch, if you open it up, you'd see 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:50.160 ground underneath it. And so basically habitat was destroyed by 0:53:50.239 --> 0:53:54.759 those two invasive grasses. And then with the advent of 0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:59.480 basically modern brush hogging machines and just people kind of 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:04.320 taking better care of their farms. People have t post 0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:07.200 fence rows now, when back in the day they probably 0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:09.920 would have just strung barbed wire between trees and put 0:54:10.000 --> 0:54:12.040 up some wooden fence. And not that wood or metal 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:15.280 makes a difference, but basically they had these robust edges 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:20.680 that product provided habitat for quail and and and we 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:22.880 don't now we have t posts. And with a t 0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:25.400 post fence you can mow right up beside it. You 0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:27.440 can right you can mow within six inches of one 0:54:27.480 --> 0:54:29.719 side and six inches of the other, you know, I mean, 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:33.440 like there's two sided fence. So that was big. I mean, 0:54:33.520 --> 0:54:38.040 those really are the it's it's it's habitat degradation. But 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:40.279 the other thing that's happened in Arkansas. That's crazy. That 0:54:40.360 --> 0:54:42.040 has to do with the ground nesting bird is our 0:54:42.640 --> 0:54:46.520 quite Our turkey populations are down like six. So it's 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:50.479 almost like there's this fuzz of nobody knows really what's 0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:53.120 going on with the ground nesting birds other than that 0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:56.000 they're doing really bad. You know, we had an article 0:54:56.040 --> 0:55:00.360 we ran on uh the meat eater dot com about 0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:04.200 declining turkey numbers in some states, and it's kind of funny, Man, 0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:07.440 piss people off. You come war with my house. We've 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:09.200 got playing turkeys. I'm like, I'm sure you do, man, 0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:11.080 But I mean, there's certain things you can't ignore it. 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:12.839 There's a lot of states that have for the first 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.640 like for the first time, and you know, a decade 0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:21.200 or so you're seeing like declines and turkey numbers. But 0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:22.640 people get here, I don't know, it's like a weird 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:26.160 thing to get irritated about. No one said like turkey huntings, 0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:29.440 but you're seeing like like you're seeing a widespread decline 0:55:29.480 --> 0:55:32.440 in turkey numbers in certain parts of the country. Yeah, well, 0:55:32.480 --> 0:55:34.719 I think it's guys, like I can go back to 0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:38.400 some of my good spots that maybe there is a 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:41.239 six decline in turkey numbers, and I can still hear 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:44.840 a turkey gobble from there, but there's not eight of 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:47.640 them there anymore. There's one, you know. So I mean, 0:55:47.719 --> 0:55:50.400 like to the guy that's really not paying that much attention, 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:52.360 he goes in there and he kills that bird, and 0:55:52.440 --> 0:55:54.160 he's like, like, kill the bird last year, killed the 0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:57.560 bird year before that. Don't you tell me about my turkeys. Yeah, 0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:01.480 we've got some good homes down to Missouri. Yeah, now Missouri, oddly, 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:05.640 Missouri is totally different. Man. You go and this is 0:56:05.719 --> 0:56:08.759 what's bizarre. And you can't blame any of the commissions. 0:56:08.800 --> 0:56:10.640 I mean, I don't think it's anything they're doing. But 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:14.560 any direction you go from Arkansas, turkey hunting gets better 0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:17.279 quick huh, no doubt. I mean even where you are 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:20.279 hunting with with Brandon Butler. I mean that's a couple 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:25.439 hours from my house, like three hours and uh, dramatically 0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:29.600 better turkey hunting up there. I've talked about this. I'm 0:56:29.600 --> 0:56:33.520 sure we staught this interesting thing hunting in Kentucky, UM, 0:56:33.880 --> 0:56:35.799 which is another area that used to have great quail hunting, 0:56:35.800 --> 0:56:38.319 and the quail are gone kind of gone. And we're 0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:41.440 home with our friend Kevin Murphy, and he was explaining 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:42.840 that when he hunts a small game, he likes to 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:47.000 hunt on the Amish farms because he said, they don't 0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:52.840 clean farm. They they still dirty farm and you go 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:54.160 out there, and it was so funny the whole time 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:55.680 run around with him. That was the place we saw 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:59.120 quail was on an Amish farming, described dirty farming. I've 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:03.000 heard you said before. But well leave like they'll pick corn, 0:57:03.120 --> 0:57:06.239 leave it for the winter. So they'll pick corn, leave 0:57:06.280 --> 0:57:12.440 the ground covered all winter. They will have uh big rows, 0:57:13.160 --> 0:57:19.840 like big huge wind rows and they don't win untill Okay, 0:57:21.320 --> 0:57:24.120 they leave crop coverage on the ground for the winter. 0:57:25.800 --> 0:57:28.920 And so he was just saying, then he did our 0:57:28.960 --> 0:57:30.640 part of it is he said, he says they're hell 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:35.600 on predators. Yeah, so they provide habitat kill predators and 0:57:35.720 --> 0:57:37.640 it's like small game golds. He goes way out of 0:57:37.680 --> 0:57:40.360 his way to hunt the Amish farms. That's the games 0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:45.160 all the game is. Man sounds good. Yeah, did uh 0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:49.720 did your grandpa hunt quail on mules? No? No, no, 0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:52.800 he didn't. But how did you get into hunting on mules? 0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:56.760 You know, my my dad doesn't hunt on mules. We 0:57:56.840 --> 0:58:00.240 actually did not grow up having ecoin animals. I mean 0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:03.440 it grew being in rural Arkansas. I grew up with 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:06.720 horses and stuff. I mean just people had them, you know, 0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:08.920 Buddy's had them, and we'd ride and stuff. But it 0:58:08.960 --> 0:58:12.280 wouldn't tell about four or five years ago that I 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:15.360 just said it's time to get a mule, and it was. 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:17.959 It was as you know. I'd give you a short 0:58:18.040 --> 0:58:21.080 version or a long version of that, but I think 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:24.320 I'll tell people what a mule is. A mule is 0:58:24.360 --> 0:58:26.840 when a donkey and a horse do it. A mule 0:58:27.040 --> 0:58:31.480 is a hybrid cross between a male donkey called a 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:34.560 jack and a female horse called them mayor, and it 0:58:34.720 --> 0:58:39.680 produces a what in the biology world, how's it work with? 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:42.040 How's it work with? The gender? Again, So it's a 0:58:42.800 --> 0:58:47.400 a mule is a male donkey, a jack and a 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:53.960 female horse. The opposite is what's a genie mule? That's okay? 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:57.840 That is when it's a man. I'm gonna get I'm 0:58:57.840 --> 0:58:59.680 gonna mix it up. I'm not an expert, but it's 0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:01.600 a differ for an animal. When you do the inverse, 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:04.480 when it's a male horse and a female donkey, it 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:07.560 produces a different animal. It's it's escaped me what that is. 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:09.560 It's really rare. People don't do it. Well, that's what. 0:59:09.680 --> 0:59:13.160 That's what a genny mule is or whatever. I think that. Yeah, 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.320 there's a phrase for it, and I can't recall what 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:24.240 it is. Jenny, I think it's g So the cool 0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:27.280 thing about we'll come back to you. The cool thing 0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:31.600 about a mule is that it's a classic example of 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:37.080 hybrid vigor. You know the phrase hybrid hybrid, hybrid, hybrid, 0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:39.800 hybrid vigor, hybrid, I mean I know it in terms 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:44.320 of egg Yeah. So, so basically, you take the strength 0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:47.920 of these two animals, which both have great strengths like 0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:52.920 a donkey. Like a donkey strength would be like hard feet, nimble, 0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:57.120 very strong for its size. Um. And you would take 0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:00.640 a horse, which would be its strengths would be um, 1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:05.840 it's it's speed, it's trainability. And basically inside of a 1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:09.720 mule you get you get the best characteristics of both 1:00:09.840 --> 1:00:13.000 animals in one animal. And this is fascinating to me. 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:16.800 A mule will live longer than both a donkey and 1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:21.000 a horse live longer. I mean, uh, they're not. It's 1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:24.360 actually viable. They're they're not. Do you still geld him. Yep, 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:31.640 they have all the same desires, but no, no real ammo. Yeah, 1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:33.560 so you gotta you gotta, you gotta cut a male 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:36.120 or he'll want to breed females and stuff but won't 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:37.720 do any good, won't do them any good. But he 1:00:38.640 --> 1:00:46.320 didn't know that. Yeah, that's when you wanna want a boy. 1:00:47.840 --> 1:00:53.520 That's when a boy stallion and a girl donkey a 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:59.919 jenny they do it. They get a henny, correct, honey, 1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:05.720 male horse, female donkey? What is the opposite what you're 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:08.880 talking about? And it's a different animal. They have different 1:01:08.920 --> 1:01:12.040 they're usually not as big and for some reason people 1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:14.360 just don't do that very much. It's not his story. 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:18.880 So stature, shorter ears, stronger legs, and a thicker mane. 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:25.680 So guys who produced mules for the mule trade, um, 1:01:29.200 --> 1:01:32.040 they just they have some donkeys, they have some horses. 1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:35.520 Well you would you would have a set of Let's 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:37.880 say there was a guy that was actually a mule breeder, 1:01:38.360 --> 1:01:41.400 he would have a set of mayor horses that would 1:01:41.440 --> 1:01:43.160 be I mean, if he was good. They would be 1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:47.880 selected horses based upon them being a good horse, being trainable, 1:01:48.080 --> 1:01:51.680 being not KICKI being having good feet, I mean, have 1:01:51.800 --> 1:01:53.640 all these like traits that you want a good horse, 1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:56.120 and then he would have he would have a jack 1:01:56.960 --> 1:02:00.280 that suited and produced what he wanted in side of 1:02:00.320 --> 1:02:03.040 a mule. And so a lot of guys use mammoth jack's, 1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:06.920 which a mammoth jack it's like a jack that's over hands. 1:02:07.320 --> 1:02:11.440 It can be up to like seventeen hands, which is huge. 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:13.720 I mean, it looks like a dinosaur. You got to 1:02:13.720 --> 1:02:17.320 look up. A mammoth jack looks crazy. But so you 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:19.960 just have you have you know, one or two breeder 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:22.720 jack's and and it's just like any type of animal breeding. 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:25.320 You make a cross and maybe it produces a mule 1:02:25.440 --> 1:02:29.080 that's really good, that's tempered right, that's built right, that's 1:02:29.080 --> 1:02:32.280 a good feet, that's strong, that's colored the way you 1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:34.440 want it to. But there's a lot of quirks inside 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:36.520 the mule world too. It's really hard to get a 1:02:36.600 --> 1:02:40.240 mule bred with color like actually the fur color of 1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:48.120 a mule typically tends to be solid ball. For everybody, buddy, man, 1:02:48.760 --> 1:02:51.480 it's just a it's just a it's just like, for instance, 1:02:51.520 --> 1:02:54.600 the mule that I that I trained and own, Like 1:02:55.080 --> 1:02:57.560 in the mule world, it's like, oh, that's a flashy mule. 1:02:57.760 --> 1:03:00.440 I mean it's just like your bow. It's just like 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:02.320 your boat. I mean, like you want a bow that 1:03:02.480 --> 1:03:04.600 you like the looks of it. Yeah, my new bowl, 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:07.320 my new boat. All bowls are this way now almost, 1:03:08.360 --> 1:03:12.280 But I got a new Matthews and it's flat black 1:03:13.000 --> 1:03:17.480 looks it looks menacing. Many verdicts everybody. Everybody wants one 1:03:17.480 --> 1:03:19.400 of them flat black black bows because he looks like 1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:25.200 a killer. Remember Fridge Perry, oh, the football player. Yes, 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:27.720 remember you know they won the Super Bowl. That was 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:32.800 kind of the last football game I watched. Uh a touchdown. 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:37.680 My mom was from Chicago. He wore black shoes back 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:39.960 when everybody had white shoes. And he was saying he 1:03:40.040 --> 1:03:42.120 wore black shoes because people looked at him, they think 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:45.280 they're gonna he was gonna be slow, but then he 1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:48.600 just slam them with black Now, why would black shoes 1:03:48.680 --> 1:03:51.760 make you think they're slow. Let's dude, this is man. 1:03:52.040 --> 1:03:54.920 We just thirty seven years ago. People to who knows. 1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:57.320 That's what was his theory on it. But that black boat, 1:03:57.360 --> 1:04:00.520 what the point is? My black bowl looks fast. Jet 1:04:00.640 --> 1:04:03.120 black bowl looks menacing. Man, I shoot the same color 1:04:03.200 --> 1:04:06.760 bow mean, if I had a guy pop up to 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:08.360 shoot me with the arrow, and he had wanted and 1:04:08.480 --> 1:04:10.480 he had I choose whether he had a camel bow 1:04:10.600 --> 1:04:12.480 or a black bow, I'd go with camel if he's 1:04:12.480 --> 1:04:15.640 shooting at me, because I'd be like, yeah, you think 1:04:15.840 --> 1:04:18.600 could be. But he had a flat black boat that's 1:04:18.680 --> 1:04:25.720 menacing fops, I do shoot my bone flipflops a little bit. Uh. 1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:31.200 How much is the mule? Man? That's just like every 1:04:31.280 --> 1:04:34.000 other thing on the planet when you're dealing with a commodity, 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:39.640 there's all kind of variations. I mean, just this last week, 1:04:39.720 --> 1:04:42.720 somebody asked me how much I paid for the mule 1:04:42.840 --> 1:04:44.520 that I have, which I trained my mule, so it's 1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:47.760 an untrained mule. I mean basically she was totally untrained. 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:49.640 But no one knew what it had. No one knew 1:04:49.680 --> 1:04:51.480 what it was the only the only thing, the only 1:04:51.520 --> 1:04:54.000 reason I bought the mule that I did, traded and bought, 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:56.040 and I'll tell you what I gave for it. It 1:04:56.200 --> 1:04:58.280 was because it was a flashy mule that was the 1:04:58.400 --> 1:05:01.960 right size that I wanted so wanted you, oh I have. 1:05:02.200 --> 1:05:04.720 I have no apologies for wanting to flash man. If 1:05:04.720 --> 1:05:06.560 I'm gonna feed that thing and see it every day 1:05:07.000 --> 1:05:09.000 out from my house. I wanted to look good. Let 1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:10.600 me tell you why you don't want to flashy mule. 1:05:12.320 --> 1:05:15.520 Let's see you get a flashy mule, okay, and it 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:18.440 winds up being a shitty mule. People are gonna be 1:05:18.560 --> 1:05:23.440 like that guy taking those all cool looking and now 1:05:23.560 --> 1:05:25.680 he's got But let's say you have a shitty looking 1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:31.680 mule and he's a shitty mule. People will be like, whatever, Yeah, 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:34.360 he got some old mule. I don't know what. Dude 1:05:34.400 --> 1:05:36.520 doesn't do what he says. But it's like a lot 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:40.040 different if you bought a really fancy sports car and 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:42.120 then the minute you take it out, you crash it. People, 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:44.840 it's more funny to people. That's gonna be more funny 1:05:44.880 --> 1:05:47.320 to people. It's he bought an old junkie car and 1:05:47.360 --> 1:05:50.400 crashed it. So you're just more you're gonna head your 1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:54.120 bets on like the social the social aspect, Like Romella 1:05:54.200 --> 1:05:57.080 bought an ugly mule. Really it turns out stupid mule 1:05:57.120 --> 1:05:58.480 and it doesn't work good. But I mean, what do 1:05:58.520 --> 1:06:03.720 you expect? Well, do you understand what I'm saying? You 1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:09.600 don't understands? Yeah, we'll see the thing about. I'll try 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:11.840 to be brief here. I mean, you can. I can 1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:14.400 leave it rest. You bought a cool looking mule, right, 1:06:15.080 --> 1:06:19.440 you could. You could. You could pay ten dollars for 1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:22.720 a mule easily based on what it looks like, based 1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:26.080 upon a whole bunch of stuff. Men, The complexities inside 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:28.919 of the animal world, especially one that you're gonna ride, 1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:34.200 are so at the point at which it's broke, right, Yeah, 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:37.960 you don't. It's intelligences And yeah, you'd never buy like 1:06:38.040 --> 1:06:41.440 an untrained ten thousand dollar mule. The reason can you 1:06:41.480 --> 1:06:43.280 spend on a horr mean, he's spend like you can 1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:47.000 spend times out of a horse. Sure, yeah, because of 1:06:47.040 --> 1:06:49.680 the racehorse industry and some of the stuff. But but 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:52.840 you know, the reason that I bought the mule that 1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:54.360 I did is because I like the way it looked, 1:06:54.360 --> 1:06:57.400 its right size, and nobody had ever messed with it. 1:06:58.000 --> 1:07:00.160 Which that's the one thing with a mule is that 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:04.200 they're easy to mess up there, so the strong they're 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:08.080 easy to mess up very So you don't want to 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:10.720 get a mule from a guy that's like, I trained 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:14.560 this smele a little bit. You know, I'll sell it 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:17.480 to you for this much. You don't know what's happened 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:20.200 with that mule. And that's that's the one negative people 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:23.680 talking about formed a really bad impression of people. They 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:28.080 they're highly unforgiving. But in the same sense, that's what 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:32.360 makes a mule great, is that if he trusts you, 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:36.080 if you train him right, if you do it right, 1:07:36.200 --> 1:07:40.920 he's gonna be an incredible animal forever. That's an abbreviated 1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:44.640 like simple thing inside of a complex situation. But I 1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:47.200 wanted to I wanted a mule that nobody had messed with. 1:07:47.960 --> 1:07:50.520 And you want to your mistakes to be your own, Yeah, 1:07:51.000 --> 1:07:53.120 I did. I wanted to know because I got a 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:55.560 mut I had a mule before that that was green broke, 1:07:55.640 --> 1:07:57.640 and green broke is basically just a way of saying, 1:07:58.160 --> 1:08:03.720 this thing ain't trained. And I had one means technically 1:08:03.840 --> 1:08:05.680 like you could put a saddle on it and get 1:08:05.720 --> 1:08:10.200 on its back. It's trained enough for that and could 1:08:10.360 --> 1:08:14.919 ride a little bit. But it's broad term. But green broke, 1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:18.400 in my book, means highly dangerous. Really, you don't know 1:08:18.560 --> 1:08:20.720 what this animal has. So I had some bad experiences 1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:23.639 with a with a green broke mule, so I wanted 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:27.080 to train one on my own, and I this guy 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:29.439 has now become my friend. But a guy in southeast 1:08:29.479 --> 1:08:36.080 Oklahoma had this mule, Craigslist mule dangerous. Oh yeah, I 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:43.720 do it almost almost every day. And uh, he had 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:46.519 this mule I wanted about He wanted fifteen hundred dollars 1:08:46.560 --> 1:08:48.360 for an untrained mule, which is you could buy a 1:08:48.439 --> 1:08:53.840 broke mule for fifts, but the mules special. Basically, I 1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:58.840 traded him n Honda four tracks four wheeler, an old 1:09:00.320 --> 1:09:04.200 Russian World War two rifle. It was worth about seventy 1:09:04.240 --> 1:09:07.519 five dollars one of those. Man, it was a little 1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:10.080 set with what call. It was given to me as 1:09:10.120 --> 1:09:14.439 a gift, and it fired. It's some odd caliber but no, 1:09:14.640 --> 1:09:18.880 it's like it was like seven six to like whatever. Yeah, 1:09:20.560 --> 1:09:23.040 with one of those four wheeler, one of those rifles 1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:26.760 and five dollars cash and he took me to the cleaners. Really, 1:09:27.320 --> 1:09:29.320 I'm not a good negotiator when it comes to stuff 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:31.120 like that. I'm a little too nice. So he got 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:33.479 a gun, a quad Runner and five hundred bucks and 1:09:33.560 --> 1:09:38.680 I got a man. It was an incredible, incredible experienced 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:42.679 just for hunting. None. Yeah, there's six mules for sale 1:09:42.720 --> 1:09:47.439 on the boat on the bowsman Craigslist right now? If 1:09:47.479 --> 1:09:50.080 you is there a dead deer on that same page 1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:54.720 mule deer? Get you get on that? Oh you want 1:09:54.720 --> 1:09:57.960 to know people selling mule deer Kawasaki mule four wheelers. 1:09:58.520 --> 1:09:59.920 You gotta do a lot of digging to buy mu 1:10:00.000 --> 1:10:02.280 there's a lot of nuances in the Craigslist mule world 1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:07.760 that guy has to get tuned up on. Uh, that's 1:10:07.800 --> 1:10:10.800 pretty interesting, man. But you don't love the thing about 1:10:10.880 --> 1:10:13.720 hunting with mules down where you're at is um Is 1:10:13.720 --> 1:10:16.400 it really like an access issue? You know, like what 1:10:16.520 --> 1:10:17.840 can you get you on a mule that you can't 1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:20.680 get to in your in your truck. Well, that's a 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:23.160 good question. It's legitimate. I mean, we don't have the 1:10:23.200 --> 1:10:25.120 wilderness that you guys have in the West. I mean 1:10:25.200 --> 1:10:28.080 we just don't. But we do have. We do a 1:10:28.120 --> 1:10:29.920 big but I think we have two point two million 1:10:29.960 --> 1:10:32.320 acres in National Forest and Arkansas and a lot of 1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:35.839 it's fairly remote, fairly well, all of it's pretty rugged. 1:10:36.520 --> 1:10:39.320 We have eleven wilderness areas in Arkansas that are you know, 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:47.439 limited to foot travel, leaqueline travel, Federally designated wilderness like roughly. 1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:50.800 How big are they? Um, the biggest ones about thirty 1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:55.800 thousand acres. Yeah, the smallest one is probably six seven 1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:59.560 thousand acres. Is that thirty acre one fairly contiguous or 1:10:59.600 --> 1:11:01.560 is it buzz it all up into a thousand contiguous? 1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:08.640 No kidding? Yeah? Yeah, yeah for the south or you know, 1:11:08.720 --> 1:11:11.120 if we're considering Arkansas at the south, which it is, 1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:16.639 we uh, we have some incredible rugged I mean, well, 1:11:16.800 --> 1:11:22.840 it is wilderness, it's federal wilderness, wilderness area. Uh, it's 1:11:22.880 --> 1:11:27.519 the Buffalo Wilderness that's the biggest one. And no, kid, 1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:32.479 I can't remember I've never hunted the Buffalo Wilderness. Because 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:37.480 the Buffalo Wilderness has become a hot spot for tourism 1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:40.200 because of the Buffalo River, which is the nation's first 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:43.479 national river. So it's incredible. The Buffalo River area is 1:11:43.479 --> 1:11:47.880 probably the most rugged, true representation of the Ozarks that 1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:52.280 there is, and but it's become a hub for tourism 1:11:52.360 --> 1:11:54.439 big time. So it's it's a positive thing. But I 1:11:54.520 --> 1:11:56.880 don't really want to go there and hunt. Yeah, I 1:11:56.960 --> 1:12:00.599 got you. Yeah, it sees a lot of nine tourism. 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:04.760 Yeah it does, it does. But so being an issue 1:12:04.760 --> 1:12:09.160 of access, like it's not like I'm gonna ride my 1:12:09.360 --> 1:12:12.760 mule like eighteen miles back into the wilderness to hunt 1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:17.960 that that's just not gonna happen. But definitely I go 1:12:18.120 --> 1:12:21.840 places that other people don't go and stay longer. I mean, 1:12:21.920 --> 1:12:24.679 that's the whole point of it, is to go further 1:12:24.800 --> 1:12:26.640 and stay longer and a lot of times ill. And 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:31.519 now I learned this technique from James Lawrence. You know 1:12:31.600 --> 1:12:36.719 what it does, but it's but it's right, I add, 1:12:37.000 --> 1:12:41.800 that's my one of my I call him a friend, 1:12:41.880 --> 1:12:44.800 but he's almost he's more than a friend. Guy named 1:12:44.920 --> 1:12:50.400 James Lawrence. James is he he grew up hunting in 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:53.400 wilderness in Arkansas, and what he would do and this, 1:12:53.560 --> 1:12:55.160 and he taught me how to do this, and that's 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:57.240 kind of kind of a lot of what I do. 1:12:57.400 --> 1:12:59.280 I'm trying to do what James did, and it's just 1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:02.439 I like to do it. But he would use a 1:13:02.520 --> 1:13:06.160 paniard and lead a horse in with all his gear 1:13:06.240 --> 1:13:09.320 on it for like nine days. So he'd just hauled 1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:11.840 his horse in with packs on, and then once he 1:13:11.920 --> 1:13:14.280 got to his camp, he'd unload all his stuff and 1:13:14.320 --> 1:13:19.200 then he'd ride the horse. And I liked hunt that way. Yeah, 1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:23.000 I saw one of the one of your videos that 1:13:23.040 --> 1:13:26.760 you made. You're a good writer, man, Thank you like 1:13:26.960 --> 1:13:30.000 you right? Like the narrations, Well, I like it. It's 1:13:30.040 --> 1:13:34.760 well done. Um, you can shoot off that mule. Yeah, 1:13:35.000 --> 1:13:38.040 he doesn't even give a ship. Yeah, shooting right off 1:13:38.200 --> 1:13:41.040 over his head. Dude. At one time got in a 1:13:41.080 --> 1:13:44.240 horse with a muzzle loader, and that most lord swung 1:13:44.240 --> 1:13:46.680 across the corner of his eye. I was down on 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:49.479 the ground so fast and so hard. Man, I hate 1:13:49.520 --> 1:13:54.840 that just from not even shooting it swung in his 1:13:54.960 --> 1:14:00.679 peripheral vision. I'll spook a man off of lip out 1:14:01.080 --> 1:14:06.040 and landing on a rock. We with an outfitter, were you? Yeah? 1:14:06.160 --> 1:14:07.920 Well I was on a reservation, so I was with 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:10.880 some tribal members messing around. See a good animal is 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:14.080 not gonna do that, Steve, You're gonna desensitize it. I mean, 1:14:14.160 --> 1:14:15.960 like I spend We'll just dude. You know what's funny, 1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:18.280 The guy knew enough to know that. He knew enough 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:22.240 to know that, Um, it might not like that. See 1:14:22.360 --> 1:14:25.639 that's you shouldn't put You shouldn't put somebody. You shouldn't 1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:27.800 put somebody on an Yeah, my sister in law takes 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:29.800 my daughter outright, and she picks a horse that she 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:32.800 thinks is suitable for my daughter. Yeah, she's like, this 1:14:32.880 --> 1:14:35.560 would be a good horse for her. Yeah, because of X, 1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:37.120 Y and Z. This guy's like, this would be a 1:14:37.200 --> 1:14:43.439 bad horse for that. Let's go put him on that horse. Um, 1:14:44.760 --> 1:14:48.080 you guys hunt raccoons. You guys hunt raccoons on mules? 1:14:48.840 --> 1:14:50.840 What kind of dogs you chase them with? I've got 1:14:50.920 --> 1:14:54.800 plot hounds, so you don't use your squirrel dogs? No, No, 1:14:55.640 --> 1:14:58.240 what's the plot? Plot? Hound? Is a It's a uk 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:03.120 C registered breed of dogs p L O T T 1:15:03.920 --> 1:15:06.680 the plot home plot? Is it like a walker? Is 1:15:06.720 --> 1:15:09.400 it like over? I mean it's a it's a hound, 1:15:09.680 --> 1:15:12.360 and it's a it's a fascinating story, like a lanky, 1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:15.760 long legged deal. Now it's a pretty compact. I mean 1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:18.640 my dogs are like fifty to sixty pounds, females in 1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:20.880 the forty five to fifty pound range, males in the 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:23.599 sixty to sixty five pound range. If it wasn't black, 1:15:23.680 --> 1:15:27.040 it would look like a hound I'm looking at. That's 1:15:27.080 --> 1:15:29.599 what you're run raccoons with. You bet you like one 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:32.960 of them? Like, what's the dog? I'm looking Catahoulo. Yeah, 1:15:32.960 --> 1:15:34.760 they're kind of a brindle dog. My dog, one of 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:38.320 my dogs is black. But the plot, the plot hound 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:40.840 is the only breed of hound that didn't descend from 1:15:40.920 --> 1:15:45.200 European fox hounds. So Walker, blue tick, red tick, English. 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:47.400 All these dogs descended from European fox have all been 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:50.879 tainted by Europe. Well, the plotthhounds were to the plothounds 1:15:50.920 --> 1:15:53.160 came from Germany. But they were big game dogs in 1:15:53.280 --> 1:15:56.720 Germany and they were brought over in seventeen fifty by 1:15:56.840 --> 1:16:00.880 sixteen year old boy named your Honness Plot and Johannes's Plot. 1:16:01.560 --> 1:16:06.559 He his father bred these dogs for a nobleman in Germany. 1:16:07.360 --> 1:16:09.560 He sent his son to the New World, and what 1:16:09.680 --> 1:16:12.160 he sent him with was five hounds, which were the 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:16.559 original plot hoounds. They came in. Johannes's Plot was sixteen 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:18.560 years old. His brother died on the journey over. He 1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:21.200 and to one other brother came. They ended up in 1:16:21.280 --> 1:16:24.240 North Carolina with these five dogs. I mean they weren't 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.160 plot hoounds, that that was just their last name. They 1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:27.800 were just hunting dogs. And he had a mix of 1:16:27.840 --> 1:16:31.000 males and females presumably. Yeah, And so the the story 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:34.599 is is that the plothhound breed descended directly from those 1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:40.120 five dogs, and the plothhound is it's it's absolutely true 1:16:40.160 --> 1:16:43.639 to a degree. There's some like real hardcore plot men 1:16:43.720 --> 1:16:46.960 that are like, the plot breed has never been bred 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:50.880 by anything outside of those five dogs. But clearly when 1:16:50.920 --> 1:16:52.680 you look at the history and the culture, I mean 1:16:52.880 --> 1:16:56.000 dogs on tethers out in people's yards and these mountain 1:16:56.040 --> 1:16:58.599 people they were breeding other dogs in but in general 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:02.760 they stayed true to that, to that plot lineage. And 1:17:03.000 --> 1:17:05.519 uh so the plot is the national dog or the 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:08.240 state dog of North Carolina, and it's the only hound. 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:15.679 Jana is married into North Carolina. He's essentially from North Carolina. Okay, 1:17:16.640 --> 1:17:20.479 but the plot, the plot hound is the only breed 1:17:20.560 --> 1:17:24.880 of hounds that is directly associated with bear dogs. Some 1:17:25.080 --> 1:17:28.040 it's like a plot bear dog. And so for me, 1:17:28.360 --> 1:17:34.519 hunting coons with with plots is actually primarily because we 1:17:34.560 --> 1:17:37.519 cannot run big game in Arkansas with hounds, and so 1:17:37.800 --> 1:17:40.080 I wanted to have plot hounds, and what we can 1:17:40.240 --> 1:17:43.680 run is raccoons. And so a tree dog is a 1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:46.800 tree dog. They'll chase anything with fur and they've just 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:48.840 got to have that tree and instinct. So the difference 1:17:48.840 --> 1:17:51.800 between a bear dog and a raccoon dog is very 1:17:51.880 --> 1:17:53.920 different depending on how much you want to nerd out 1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:56.720 about it. But you could take a bear dog and 1:17:56.880 --> 1:17:59.400 train it to be a raccoon dog. Why do you 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:03.719 guys call all it when when a when a tree, squirrel, 1:18:03.760 --> 1:18:06.600 a raccoon taps the tree, jumps from one tree to 1:18:06.640 --> 1:18:08.040 the next. Why do you call it that he timbered 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:12.160 the tree? You know, I guess because that's I say tap, 1:18:12.280 --> 1:18:15.360 because that's the Jerry Clouds possible description of it. Steve, 1:18:17.560 --> 1:18:22.320 what else have we heard for that? Like Mississippi? I 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:24.760 think you know that taps the tree, taps the tree. 1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:26.719 Let's say, when I hear the word taps the tree, 1:18:26.920 --> 1:18:31.120 to me, that means that the raccoon, squirrel, whatever went 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:33.479 halfway up the tree and then came back down and 1:18:33.520 --> 1:18:36.600 went to another tree. Oh you know, that might be 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.240 what Jerry claud was talking about. Yeah, that's what he 1:18:39.360 --> 1:18:41.960 was he was. Yeah, that's what he's saying. He tapped 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:47.880 the tree. Yeah, so they timbered because he timbered out. Yeah, 1:18:48.120 --> 1:18:50.240 he timbered Like we didn't have we don't have a 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:52.240 word where I'm from, We didn't have a word for that. 1:18:52.560 --> 1:18:58.120 You have to say something like he jumped into another tree. Yeah, 1:18:58.160 --> 1:18:59.840 you didn't settle with something like that. So that's what, 1:19:00.280 --> 1:19:02.439 like he tapped it but didn't climb, And that happens 1:19:02.439 --> 1:19:04.640 a lot. A lot of people would think that they 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:06.519 did that on purpose to throw off the dogs. And 1:19:06.600 --> 1:19:09.280 I don't think that happens. I think that the critters 1:19:09.360 --> 1:19:11.160 just moving around and maybe went up that tree for 1:19:11.200 --> 1:19:13.599 a little while and goes to another one. So what happened? Dogs? 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:17.200 And so the dog starts tree and on that tree 1:19:17.439 --> 1:19:19.640 you get there, there's no animal in the tree. And 1:19:19.760 --> 1:19:22.439 the guy goes, I tapped this tree, you know, and 1:19:22.479 --> 1:19:25.840 the coon's not there. That's good. Yeah, you guys eat 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:29.639 the raccoons. No, no, I mean I can't. I can't. 1:19:29.840 --> 1:19:32.880 I have eaten them. But it's not the norm. Are 1:19:32.920 --> 1:19:36.800 you selling hides right now? You know? Uh? Uh? An 1:19:36.960 --> 1:19:41.320 Arkansas raccoon hide. I think the average market value last 1:19:41.400 --> 1:19:44.080 year per the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission report that 1:19:44.160 --> 1:19:46.519 they give was like less than two dollars a pet. 1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:52.120 It's sad. Yeah, we just don't have good for density. 1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:54.560 It's just not that good of a it's just not 1:19:54.720 --> 1:19:57.080 that good of a hide. So I mean, you know, 1:19:57.880 --> 1:20:01.720 we take so many people raccoon hunting. I have this 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:05.880 like spiel down to like a science when I take people, 1:20:06.120 --> 1:20:08.720 because we do skin the hides. I've got a bunch 1:20:08.760 --> 1:20:11.439 of hides right now at a tannery. And uh and 1:20:11.560 --> 1:20:15.360 I get the hides tan flushing yourself. Yeah yeah, and 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:19.800 and gived. Have you send up a we can do 1:20:19.840 --> 1:20:23.600 an exchange program. Done, I'll send you one. I'm not 1:20:23.600 --> 1:20:25.920 gonna get him back to like December over my I 1:20:26.000 --> 1:20:31.040 keep a raccoon hide over my desk chair. You come 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:34.760 out of dog Durn's barn, well, come out of his 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:38.719 his grain silo. Yeah, you know, obviously reasons that wanted 1:20:38.760 --> 1:20:44.040 in there. Yeah, well we you know. So I talked 1:20:44.080 --> 1:20:46.120 to people that I take hunting new hunters because we 1:20:46.240 --> 1:20:49.000 take a ton of new hunters raccoon hunting, We really do. 1:20:49.920 --> 1:20:52.479 And uh, you know, I talked about how this this 1:20:52.680 --> 1:20:55.240 hunt is is your there's two birds being killed with 1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:59.160 one stone, and that this is a conservation hunt, depredation 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:02.440 hunt in terms of we're trying to remove an unnatural 1:21:02.560 --> 1:21:06.719 amount of raccoons that are here. There's an unnatural amount 1:21:06.800 --> 1:21:10.000 of coons right now because because of agriculture, because of 1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:12.479 all the things that are going on ecologically, So we're 1:21:12.520 --> 1:21:15.519 trying to remove them because of their suppression of ground 1:21:15.560 --> 1:21:18.920 nesting birds, you know. And uh and yeah, we just don't. 1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:23.400 We just don't eat raccoon that much. It's laborious to 1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:26.200 cook it, you do, Like any when you talk to 1:21:26.240 --> 1:21:28.280 the eats raccoon, they're usually doing two or three things 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:30.600 to it, like you cook it this way, then you 1:21:30.680 --> 1:21:35.000 cook it that way. We like slow cooked one, you know, 1:21:35.840 --> 1:21:39.599 and then finished it on a grill. It's not bad, though, Yeah, 1:21:39.680 --> 1:21:43.439 it's not bad. I've cooked it over an open fire, 1:21:44.280 --> 1:21:49.880 pretty open fire. You guys eat raccoons. You grew up 1:21:49.920 --> 1:21:53.519 in Minnesota. You read to raccoon JOHNI I have not. 1:21:54.320 --> 1:21:58.160 You don't. You don't remember anybody eating them. Just last 1:21:58.320 --> 1:22:01.280 guy told me he was eating raccoons and still making 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:04.840 them cooking him was bo what it's for? Yeah, that 1:22:04.960 --> 1:22:07.640 was that was the name of that podcast. Yeah, no, 1:22:07.800 --> 1:22:09.599 that was the last the most reason and he still 1:22:09.640 --> 1:22:14.120 eats them. M hmm. I'd like to cooking on the 1:22:14.160 --> 1:22:16.000 one up. I mean, there's a million of them around 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:20.280 here east here especially. You say it's pretty similar to beaver, 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:28.040 no greasy, greasier. I think it's not a ton different 1:22:28.400 --> 1:22:31.000 than bear meat, even though I think bear meat is better, 1:22:31.600 --> 1:22:34.960 but it has that same, you know, kind of greasy feel. 1:22:35.280 --> 1:22:39.519 Diets fairly similar. But I really don't think it's that 1:22:40.360 --> 1:22:43.400 it could be eaten. But it's just not it's just 1:22:43.520 --> 1:22:45.760 not what you do. You know. What had to me 1:22:45.840 --> 1:22:48.960 that was funny is today I was thinking about, you know, 1:22:48.960 --> 1:22:53.559 when you're looking at YouTube videos, I was wondering how 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:59.880 fixed the ratio is of likes and dislikes on YouTube videos. 1:23:01.520 --> 1:23:03.760 This is like honestly going through my head today. Um, 1:23:05.760 --> 1:23:07.240 And I was like, man, it'd be interesting to take 1:23:07.280 --> 1:23:11.680 an analysis of all YouTube videos and add up the 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:15.040 likes that dislikes because it's like, I feel like it's 1:23:15.120 --> 1:23:19.160 like less than like generally runs lessan ten percent all 1:23:19.280 --> 1:23:22.720 like dislike. Yeah, I feel like I was thinking, like, 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:25.000 it's such it's so weird that there seems to be 1:23:25.240 --> 1:23:28.120 such a fixed ratio, like and when we put out videos, 1:23:28.200 --> 1:23:30.920 you look at the thumbs up and thumbs downs, they're 1:23:30.960 --> 1:23:35.760 like always fixed, right, overwhelmingly positive, but always yeah. And 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:37.840 then I was reviewing one of your videos that that's 1:23:37.880 --> 1:23:40.800 got like one point eight million views and it has 1:23:40.880 --> 1:23:45.519 more dislikes and legs, which shattered my operator, which shattered 1:23:45.600 --> 1:23:47.559 the theory that I had just been thinking about that day. 1:23:48.400 --> 1:23:52.719 You know what's amazing video on talking about talking about 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:55.040 let me tell you something that's amazing about that. I've 1:23:55.080 --> 1:23:58.080 been tracking that video now for about two years. Video. 1:23:58.320 --> 1:24:01.320 I put it up I think in September of seventeen, 1:24:01.439 --> 1:24:04.720 so almost two years seen his video. You haven't seen 1:24:04.800 --> 1:24:12.080 his video, h the like, the likes and dislikes were 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:16.960 within a hundred of each other for years. It's ten 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:20.320 thousand and eleven thousand right now, Well it's it's started 1:24:20.360 --> 1:24:25.360 to kind of go over, but that's still very close. Yeah. Man, 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:27.200 it was like it was like I wanted to start 1:24:27.280 --> 1:24:29.479 like calling my friends, like hey, you like this video. 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:32.720 You know what's funny? I need to pull it back 1:24:32.760 --> 1:24:36.920 up and like it. It would help man over. Yeah, no, kids, 1:24:36.920 --> 1:24:39.280 I'm sure there was a time when I want to say, 1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:43.439 it was below a hundred difference between and it was 1:24:43.479 --> 1:24:45.720 just like, it's amazing that there's just this tug of war, 1:24:45.880 --> 1:24:48.840 but it actually stayed above on the positive side, and 1:24:49.000 --> 1:24:51.200 just in the last like a couple of months, it's 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:56.040 kind of tipped over. Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. Tough being 1:24:56.080 --> 1:24:58.760 a YouTuber. Do you do you think of yourself as 1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:02.759 a YouTuber? Man, I never wanted to be on YouTube. 1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:06.040 Intentionally stayed off YouTube two years ago because we were 1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:09.920 creating We've been creating video content for five years, and uh, 1:25:10.479 --> 1:25:13.080 never wanted to be on YouTube. To me, YouTube was 1:25:13.160 --> 1:25:15.760 like for cell phone videos and stuff you didn't want 1:25:15.800 --> 1:25:18.439 to watch and bad stuff. If you didn't want to 1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:22.040 watch it, that's where you put it. Yeah, and I 1:25:22.160 --> 1:25:24.640 had a buddy of like the garbage can. I mean, 1:25:24.720 --> 1:25:27.120 that's the way that was my perception. But just someone 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:30.920 recently told me that, um, every minute, I don't know 1:25:30.920 --> 1:25:33.000 if this is true or not. I think from judging 1:25:33.040 --> 1:25:35.559 by the source, I think it's probably true. Every minute, 1:25:35.880 --> 1:25:39.080 four hundred hours of content are uploaded to YouTube. I 1:25:39.200 --> 1:25:46.920 believe that cynd hours per minute. Incredible. I had a 1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:50.760 buddy you could tell about the video. Yeah, I'm just 1:25:50.840 --> 1:25:52.920 gonna continue on how it got there. Yes, how you 1:25:53.000 --> 1:25:54.400 asked me if I felt like I was feeling at 1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:56.439 some point we need to get around to what's in it? Okay, 1:25:56.520 --> 1:25:59.240 but go ahead. You're you used you use the word YouTuber. 1:25:59.280 --> 1:26:01.599 I didn't. I'm a lot of surprised when someone calls 1:26:01.640 --> 1:26:04.920 himself a YouTuber. No, I don't really consider myself a YouTuber, 1:26:05.000 --> 1:26:07.599 but I do have content on YouTube, you know. But yeah, 1:26:07.640 --> 1:26:09.559 that's what I would think, because you wouldn't be like, um, 1:26:10.280 --> 1:26:12.599 it just seems weird to name like if you're a musician, right, 1:26:12.680 --> 1:26:14.519 and what you wind up that most of your money 1:26:14.600 --> 1:26:18.680 comes from Spotify? Do you call yourself a Spotify or right? 1:26:19.240 --> 1:26:21.280 Just a platform for the art? Really? Yeah, and so 1:26:21.360 --> 1:26:22.920 it's like it just it always felt weird for me 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:24.920 to be like, like, oh when it used to be 1:26:25.000 --> 1:26:28.640 like iTunes store. I would like to interject though, that 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:34.200 I feel that YouTube made YouTubers and not that musicians 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:40.800 made Spotify. Spotify wouldn't exist without musicians, That's what I'm Yeah, 1:26:41.040 --> 1:26:45.679 you're saying that platform created a platform, created a type 1:26:45.680 --> 1:26:48.080 of content producer, and it wasn't like musicians, like, oh, 1:26:48.080 --> 1:26:49.439 we used to make our business this way. Now we 1:26:49.479 --> 1:26:52.519 distribute that way in the way that that YouTube handles 1:26:52.640 --> 1:26:57.960 creators kind of channels do they handle creators? You bet? Yeah, 1:26:58.080 --> 1:27:00.200 you get if you guys are on you, I'm like, 1:27:00.280 --> 1:27:02.000 I get, but I don't think of them as like hand. 1:27:02.000 --> 1:27:04.400 I wouldn't say they handle well, they I feel like 1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:07.200 they're trying to help creators, like with the best possible 1:27:07.240 --> 1:27:09.679 ways to do things and to upload and create content, 1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:12.360 and so they kind of created this culture of hey, 1:27:12.400 --> 1:27:15.160 you guys are YouTubers. I mean, and you know, but 1:27:15.240 --> 1:27:18.800 I don't necessarily identify with that. But but now, so, 1:27:19.280 --> 1:27:21.800 do you want to talk about the video when you're ready? 1:27:22.720 --> 1:27:26.400 I'm ready. So it actually surprises me that you brought 1:27:26.479 --> 1:27:29.360 this video up. Why you know? To me, well, I 1:27:29.400 --> 1:27:31.640 brought it up because of the really supernatural thing. I 1:27:31.720 --> 1:27:37.400 was not supernatural, like like above natural, but like exceedingly 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:41.599 natural that I was thinking about the ratios then I'm 1:27:41.640 --> 1:27:43.600 then I was like before we came and talked, I 1:27:43.720 --> 1:27:46.600 was like, oh my god, it's funny. Yeah yeah, no, 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:49.439 no it it's the year the people don't like it. 1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:52.120 More than man that this video has taught me a 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:55.559 lot and really is toughened up my skin. I can't 1:27:55.600 --> 1:27:59.360 imagine talks about video. You don't know about the video video. No, 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:01.439 I'm not let me tell about it. No, you're telling 1:28:01.479 --> 1:28:04.880 about it. I was. I was a bear hunting in Saskatchewan, 1:28:05.479 --> 1:28:08.400 bear hunting in Saskatchewan. I believe in uh. I like 1:28:08.520 --> 1:28:11.120 the way you pronounced Saskatchew. Now you're gonna have some 1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:14.360 dude like you calling in and talking about how you 1:28:14.360 --> 1:28:17.160 didn't say it right, a skatchewe what you calls a 1:28:17.240 --> 1:28:25.640 cat scratch one. So, so hunting in Saskatchewan with it 1:28:25.760 --> 1:28:28.240 was it was a wilderness based boat hunt. So we 1:28:28.360 --> 1:28:32.840 were boating back in like on these on these Canadian rivers, 1:28:32.880 --> 1:28:35.680 and man, the Canadian wilderness is incredible. Oh yeah, they 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:39.080 don't play around up there, man, like legit wilderness. Not 1:28:39.560 --> 1:28:43.120 it wouldn't even classified as that. But we I was 1:28:43.200 --> 1:28:45.280 twenty one miles from the nearest road and we were 1:28:45.360 --> 1:28:49.439 hunting bar over bait and that is camping. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1:28:49.520 --> 1:28:52.280 I mean we were camped closer to the road system, 1:28:52.320 --> 1:28:54.439 but we were going we were traveling by boat twenty 1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:57.200 one miles a day to get one way to get 1:28:57.320 --> 1:29:00.240 to this particular spot. Well, how do you get before 1:29:00.240 --> 1:29:01.960 it gets darker, before it gets late in the morning, 1:29:02.479 --> 1:29:05.719 You don't. You just typically are hunting in the evenings 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:13.000 the days. Yeah, in June and northern Saskatchewan hardly gets dark, 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:15.240 you know, so you just you just kind of navigate 1:29:15.320 --> 1:29:17.559 out and you you gotta give up on the idea 1:29:17.560 --> 1:29:19.760 of hunting from dawn until dark. And that's the hard 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:26.560 one breakfast. Yeah. So, and that's the key component of 1:29:26.600 --> 1:29:29.439 this video is it was true wilderness to the to 1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:32.680 the other direction from me. According to my buddy, it 1:29:32.760 --> 1:29:35.639 was the outfitter. The closest road was fifty six miles away. 1:29:36.120 --> 1:29:38.560 So we're twenty one miles away from this road, and 1:29:38.640 --> 1:29:41.320 then the other direction, the closest road is fifty six miles. 1:29:41.360 --> 1:29:44.080 I mean, this is like a seventy five mile block 1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:46.400 of wilderness. Now they were they probably would have been 1:29:46.439 --> 1:29:49.680 like snowmobile trails and stuff in there, but like you 1:29:49.720 --> 1:29:53.439 couldn't have taken a motorized vehicle back in there. Yeah. Yeah, 1:29:54.560 --> 1:29:57.040 us in Alaska, if you headed west, you won't hit 1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:02.040 a role till you get into Siberia. Yeah. The first 1:30:02.120 --> 1:30:04.840 day of the hunt, we come to this it's a 1:30:04.920 --> 1:30:08.560 bait site and nobody's hunted there that year. And he 1:30:09.120 --> 1:30:11.320 he told me, he's like, man, there's a big black 1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:14.479 bear coming in here. That's you know, that's what you're after. 1:30:15.160 --> 1:30:16.800 And so I was looking for a big black bear. 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:19.600 He's beating with what oats and he's a lot of 1:30:19.600 --> 1:30:24.120 oats and grease up in northern Saskatchewan. Fry oil. Yep, yep, 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:27.280 that's primarily what they used. So he he goes around 1:30:27.280 --> 1:30:30.280 the restaurants and saves all their grease and pours it 1:30:30.360 --> 1:30:33.040 on top of oats. Yep. I met a guy that 1:30:33.160 --> 1:30:35.160 long ago that was baiting with um. I don't know 1:30:35.160 --> 1:30:38.200 if it's the same brand. Do you know Jolly Ranchers. 1:30:38.840 --> 1:30:42.720 He gets barrels of that syrup that hardens into a 1:30:42.800 --> 1:30:48.559 Jolly rancher. Shots of that man puts them ever clear 1:30:48.600 --> 1:30:56.479 in air anyhow So, so it's the first said of 1:30:56.479 --> 1:31:00.760 the hunt, the I miss a bear. So this video 1:31:00.840 --> 1:31:03.320 shows a ton of barry Interactionally, I missed this beart 1:31:03.479 --> 1:31:05.920 like probably twelve yards with a tradition, I'm hunting with 1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:08.320 a traditional bow. We're hunting off the ground there. The 1:31:08.400 --> 1:31:10.760 trees up there too small to put tree stands in. 1:31:11.240 --> 1:31:13.160 And so now why are you hunting with a traditional bowl, 1:31:13.800 --> 1:31:16.560 Just the same reason I write a mule. Just I 1:31:16.680 --> 1:31:19.600 like it. It's hard. You can't fake it. I like 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:23.000 doing stuff that you can't fake. I mean, yeah, but 1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:27.439 you can say that about baiting bears. Yeah, I'd love 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:30.439 to talk directly about that. When I say, when I 1:31:30.520 --> 1:31:32.960 say fake it, that's probably a hard term. But like, 1:31:33.640 --> 1:31:35.559 and that's not why I do it. But you can't 1:31:35.840 --> 1:31:38.439 fake being a traditional archer, like you can't just go 1:31:38.760 --> 1:31:40.240 pick it up. And it's probably a harsh term. I 1:31:40.280 --> 1:31:42.240 don't want to. Well, we talked to a guy yesterday 1:31:42.280 --> 1:31:44.679 that they've been doing this, they've been training new hunters 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:48.360 up and shooting cross bowls and three hours they can 1:31:48.400 --> 1:31:50.479 have you ready to kill a deer. Yeah. Well, I 1:31:50.479 --> 1:31:54.040 would say in three hours they're ready to kill a deer. 1:31:54.560 --> 1:31:56.200 I would say you could do that with a compound 1:31:56.280 --> 1:32:04.640 boat today. I disagree hand three days, No, you know, 1:32:04.720 --> 1:32:07.360 it depends, man, but not no, no, no, no, no, 1:32:08.439 --> 1:32:10.880 I'm with you. Okay, I can conceive that. But you 1:32:10.920 --> 1:32:14.080 can get them shooting accurate quick, Yeah, you really can't. 1:32:14.520 --> 1:32:17.960 And that's a good thing. I'm not like yeah, and 1:32:18.200 --> 1:32:24.120 I'm I'm I'm walking real careful here because uh no, 1:32:24.240 --> 1:32:28.960 I'm not. I'm dogging on your bow and crossbows because 1:32:29.000 --> 1:32:32.599 everybody knows that their own both way to go. Yeah 1:32:33.040 --> 1:32:37.000 that's right, No, do it like me? Yeah that's the 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:40.320 right way. Yeah. Okay. So anyways, there you are on 1:32:40.479 --> 1:32:43.000 the traditional bowl on the ground recurver long bow. This 1:32:43.160 --> 1:32:46.280 was a hybrid longbow, which is just kind of in 1:32:46.400 --> 1:32:48.559 between a recurve and a long bow. Yeah, I get 1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:51.920 confused with those bows a long bow. It's the most 1:32:51.920 --> 1:32:54.000 simple way to think about is a long bow has 1:32:54.040 --> 1:32:56.560 pretty much straight limbs and a recurve bow has the 1:32:56.680 --> 1:32:59.519 curved limb tips. And that's the simplest way to think 1:32:59.520 --> 1:33:01.519 about it. It's this bowl would have been kind of 1:33:01.600 --> 1:33:03.800 like you could call a cross bowl, but then it'd 1:33:03.800 --> 1:33:06.320 be like I mean crossed, like a little bit of 1:33:06.360 --> 1:33:08.240 each It would be a little confusing though. It would 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:12.679 be confusing as hell. Yeah, I mean, so I missed 1:33:12.680 --> 1:33:16.560 this bear and then a different bear. I missed a 1:33:16.680 --> 1:33:21.000 bear that I never killed, big big like big Boone 1:33:21.000 --> 1:33:26.240 and Crockett, potential type bear. And did it spook him off? Yeah? 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:30.600 He ran off, he did. He never came back. And 1:33:30.680 --> 1:33:33.920 see like the noise he knew. He all the bears 1:33:34.040 --> 1:33:36.120 know that you're there. That's that's that's what I kind 1:33:36.160 --> 1:33:38.559 of want to talk about. Well, we'll get the story 1:33:38.600 --> 1:33:42.439 will reveal this. So what we didn't show on the 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:45.240 video is that almost all those bears walked up to us, 1:33:46.240 --> 1:33:49.320 not much different than the bear did. So these these 1:33:49.360 --> 1:33:52.960 bears they see you, so far in the wilderness that 1:33:53.240 --> 1:33:59.320 they are. They're not They're not that alarmed by human presence. 1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:02.000 And I'm realized I'm digging myself a hole, but I 1:34:02.040 --> 1:34:04.200 would love to talk myself out of it after I 1:34:04.280 --> 1:34:08.559 tell the story. So the bear, huh, you haven't seen 1:34:08.600 --> 1:34:13.720 this video. A bright blonde salve bear comes in, A 1:34:13.840 --> 1:34:16.880 bright blonde salve bear, beautiful bear comes in, and another 1:34:16.920 --> 1:34:19.240 bear comes in and they begin to frolic on the 1:34:19.320 --> 1:34:22.240 ground breed. I mean, it was incredible to watch him. 1:34:22.360 --> 1:34:25.200 I don't think you really ever. It was like early summer. 1:34:25.800 --> 1:34:28.479 Well I was late June, which is a primetime for bear, 1:34:29.160 --> 1:34:32.679 you know. So these bears are frolicking around and literally 1:34:32.880 --> 1:34:35.160 rolling on each other, and he'd kind of jump up 1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:36.680 on her and act like he's gonna breed her, but 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:39.840 he never really did. And then all of a sudden, 1:34:40.040 --> 1:34:43.720 off down beyond the bait, I see, I see a 1:34:44.760 --> 1:34:47.400 big color face bear coming up the hill. He's got 1:34:47.479 --> 1:34:51.280 a his lip was drooping and had saliva and dripping 1:34:51.400 --> 1:34:53.360 from his lips. Man, he did not like the looks 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:56.160 of that one bear getting on that female he saw. 1:34:56.200 --> 1:34:59.360 I mean, they were literally he the big the black 1:34:59.400 --> 1:35:01.680 bear was on top of the South, and they were 1:35:01.760 --> 1:35:04.400 just like, oh hey, you know, that's like they got busted. 1:35:04.960 --> 1:35:08.439 And he charges them, and these three bears just run 1:35:08.680 --> 1:35:11.760 right past us, and uh. And when I saw the 1:35:11.760 --> 1:35:14.760 color phrase bear, I was like, I want that's the bear. 1:35:15.400 --> 1:35:17.000 That's the bear I want to shoot. That's a shooter, 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:20.760 old age class male, That's what I'm after. Forty three 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:24.160 seconds later, the bear comes back in the colored bear, 1:35:24.920 --> 1:35:26.880 and they don't really look at you. I mean, it's 1:35:26.960 --> 1:35:29.519 kind of I've probably heard people talk about this was 1:35:29.640 --> 1:35:32.639 like grizz attacks and stuff. They he didn't he didn't 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:35.320 just like look at me, but you could tell he was. 1:35:35.640 --> 1:35:39.640 He totally knew we were there. And he basically just 1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:42.280 kind of like starts walking towards us, but kind of 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:46.000 at an angle, and then he gets about eight yards away, 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:51.120 and at that point he directly looked at me, and 1:35:51.200 --> 1:35:55.080 then he turned and started to two to walk in 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:57.240 a a place that was going to project him to 1:35:57.280 --> 1:36:00.639 be about five yards from me. Broadside is just walking 1:36:00.720 --> 1:36:03.720 this way, and I'm thinking, here's my chance. You know 1:36:03.800 --> 1:36:06.080 what's better than a Barrett tin yards is a Barrett five. 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:08.720 You know, when you got a traditional bow. And so 1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:11.160 I mean I got three fingers under the knock. I 1:36:11.200 --> 1:36:13.040 mean this is about to happen. You do three under, 1:36:13.120 --> 1:36:15.840 you don't do one over and two under? Three? Is 1:36:15.880 --> 1:36:17.720 that for suckers? To do one over and two one? 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:22.519 Oh no, it's it's no meridian. One over two under 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:27.920 is the traditional way to shoot a traditional bow. My 1:36:28.000 --> 1:36:31.040 kids do it. Oh really happen one over to under? 1:36:31.160 --> 1:36:33.120 Now let him shoot three under? Well, the reason we 1:36:33.160 --> 1:36:35.439 didn't weird kids because our arrows didn't fit our strings 1:36:35.600 --> 1:36:39.559 and you had to use You can chew on them 1:36:39.560 --> 1:36:41.360 all day long and bite the knocks down, but you 1:36:41.439 --> 1:36:43.400 still like had to pinch it on there. Why do 1:36:43.439 --> 1:36:46.040 you actually three fingers? I just think you can shoot better. 1:36:46.080 --> 1:36:48.599 It transformed my shooting when I when I just one 1:36:48.640 --> 1:36:50.880 day started shooting three under because you can draw that 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:54.559 era right beneath your eye and there's some ship where 1:36:54.560 --> 1:36:57.439 you stack your fingers to right, you count down. Yeah 1:36:57.560 --> 1:37:01.639 that's yeah, yeah, people do that, but that's not normal 1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:04.759 in hunting. That's more like Olympic style target shooting stuff. 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:06.640 They tically not do that with hunting. So there we are, 1:37:07.120 --> 1:37:09.479 so the bears coming at me, and when he gets 1:37:09.560 --> 1:37:11.560 to like this place where he's just about to be 1:37:11.600 --> 1:37:14.000 broadside five yards away. He just turns and just comes 1:37:14.040 --> 1:37:17.720 at me, comes at you, like to the point where 1:37:17.720 --> 1:37:20.720 he comes up and touches your arrow. How do you 1:37:23.000 --> 1:37:25.240 how do you know he's not gonna um, he's not 1:37:25.280 --> 1:37:27.560 gonna do anything. He's not gonna try to get a 1:37:27.640 --> 1:37:30.120 bite of year or get piste and scratch you when 1:37:30.120 --> 1:37:32.639 he's at close to get scared and take a jump 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:36.439 out of you. This was the only situation thus far 1:37:36.920 --> 1:37:40.120 in my hunting career where a situation got out of control. 1:37:40.680 --> 1:37:43.519 Fucking say it that way. Up until he touched the 1:37:43.600 --> 1:37:45.439 end of my arrow, I thought I was in the 1:37:45.520 --> 1:37:48.400 driver's seat because I thought he was gonna turn. I 1:37:48.439 --> 1:37:51.000 thought he was just gonna kind of wheel in about 1:37:51.080 --> 1:37:53.680 two or three yards and just kind of spin and 1:37:53.760 --> 1:37:56.479 go on because he weighs quite a bit more than you. Yeah, 1:37:56.880 --> 1:37:59.719 it was probably you know, it was It was probably 1:37:59.720 --> 1:38:01.720 a two in fifty pound bear. I mean you could 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:04.120 tell somebody it was four and they probably believe it 1:38:05.600 --> 1:38:10.799 was probably to fifty. And when he didn't stop coming 1:38:11.479 --> 1:38:15.120 and and I I subconsciously used the tip of the 1:38:15.280 --> 1:38:17.439 arrow to like I didn't poke him, but like I 1:38:17.640 --> 1:38:20.760 positioned my arrow so that. I mean, imagine a dog 1:38:20.920 --> 1:38:22.920 like attacking you and you've got a bow and arrow 1:38:22.960 --> 1:38:24.640 in your hand, and you're not gonna shoot him in. 1:38:24.720 --> 1:38:26.720 I mean, you'd like use what you had in your 1:38:26.760 --> 1:38:29.519 hand to keep the animal in between, you know, away 1:38:29.560 --> 1:38:32.240 from you. And when my arrow touched his nose, that's 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:35.080 when I said, oh crap. Literally, that's what I said. 1:38:35.920 --> 1:38:39.760 And uh and I backpedaled and it startled him and 1:38:39.840 --> 1:38:42.599 he raised up on his hind legs about three quarter 1:38:42.680 --> 1:38:44.280 It's not like he just stood straight up, but he 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:47.320 he kind of reared up and he stuck his head 1:38:47.439 --> 1:38:50.800 in the blind and just kind of smelled us and 1:38:50.920 --> 1:38:55.120 then dropped down and uh and yeah, do you feel 1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:58.400 that that was his first encounter with humans? Absolutely? And 1:38:58.680 --> 1:39:01.360 there's a couple of back things behind it too. The 1:39:02.280 --> 1:39:05.400 uh Kobe Morrison had never seen that bear before. I mean, 1:39:05.479 --> 1:39:08.680 these are stations that they know what barriers are coming in, 1:39:09.320 --> 1:39:12.920 never seen that bear before. I am confident that Barrett 1:39:13.000 --> 1:39:15.080 never encountered a human and that's why he did what 1:39:15.240 --> 1:39:17.519 he did. It was just like, who are these guys? 1:39:17.720 --> 1:39:20.160 Like what is that? Who are these guys? And I 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:22.679 it's the only time in my life that I didn't 1:39:22.680 --> 1:39:24.479 think he was gonna eat me. I was just reading him. 1:39:24.520 --> 1:39:26.360 I mean, I just didn't think he was gonna attack 1:39:26.439 --> 1:39:28.600 me and eat me. Yeah, but I I yeah, not 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:31.360 that he's coming in with that intention. But when he's 1:39:31.400 --> 1:39:34.479 that close, there's no room. Right when he's that close, 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:37.920 like the minute he gets scared, he's so on top 1:39:38.000 --> 1:39:39.200 of you that you could just see and I know, 1:39:39.400 --> 1:39:41.879 like like a grizzly would be a very bad situation. 1:39:42.000 --> 1:39:44.160 You wouldn't let that happen. Yeah, And like black you 1:39:44.160 --> 1:39:45.960 couldn't write because they when they get scared, day lay 1:39:46.000 --> 1:39:47.920 the lash out. And so you could be thinking, oh, yeah, 1:39:47.960 --> 1:39:50.400 when black bears get a scared, day run. But at 1:39:50.760 --> 1:39:53.760 that close, it's just hard to rule out that he's 1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:56.479 not going to get scared and neutralize what he's also not. 1:39:57.160 --> 1:40:00.080 And I thought that's what was gonna happen. After I 1:40:00.120 --> 1:40:03.600 said oh crap and I stepped back, I thought, it's like, 1:40:04.160 --> 1:40:06.160 you know, one time almost drowned, and it was like 1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:09.560 slow motion, like, oh, this is what it feels like 1:40:09.800 --> 1:40:13.720 to drown. In that moment, I thought, oh, this is 1:40:13.760 --> 1:40:15.880 what it feels like right before you get roughed up 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:18.360 by bear. I mean, I thought he might just kind 1:40:18.400 --> 1:40:20.880 of like whack me. I thought he might knock my 1:40:20.960 --> 1:40:23.439 bow out of my hand or something. And yeah, it was. 1:40:23.600 --> 1:40:26.400 It was scary but it But a lot of people 1:40:26.439 --> 1:40:27.880 are like, what were you thinking? What were you thinking? 1:40:29.479 --> 1:40:31.120 I was trying to kill that bear. I did not 1:40:31.240 --> 1:40:35.360 have another thought in my mind other than that's the 1:40:35.439 --> 1:40:38.160 bear I want to kill. And I was in I 1:40:38.280 --> 1:40:40.840 was in mode of that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, 1:40:40.960 --> 1:40:45.400 surprised me how much you kept your composure. Two. Then 1:40:47.160 --> 1:40:50.120 take the shot, man, that's what I took a ton 1:40:50.200 --> 1:40:55.040 of heat for, even from bow hunters. What the shot? Well, 1:40:55.120 --> 1:40:57.160 we can talk about that later. But yeah, so he 1:40:57.720 --> 1:41:00.639 because he's like two ft away. Man. You go read 1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:04.640 some of those comments, I made a conscious decision not 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:08.719 too well. Yeah, I understand that. Well, that's another another 1:41:08.760 --> 1:41:11.960 when I'm trying to when I'm trying to, like um taken, 1:41:12.160 --> 1:41:15.720 well formed, well thought out sentences, I don't typically go 1:41:15.840 --> 1:41:19.600 to the YouTube comments. I hear you, I hear you. 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.000 A lot of people, A lot of people had a 1:41:22.080 --> 1:41:26.439 sentiment of that bear gave you spared my life and 1:41:26.520 --> 1:41:30.000 then I took kids. What a terrible things he spared 1:41:30.080 --> 1:41:34.760 your life? Steve It's incredible how many people. I mean, 1:41:34.800 --> 1:41:38.120 I bet since I've been in Bozeman, someone has made 1:41:38.160 --> 1:41:41.080 a comment that that bear spared my life and what 1:41:41.320 --> 1:41:45.600 a expletive expletive expletive I am for shooting him, and 1:41:45.640 --> 1:41:47.439 how cowardly it was for me to shoot him once 1:41:47.479 --> 1:41:51.160 he turned his back on me. No, I'm not. I mean, 1:41:51.640 --> 1:41:54.920 hundreds hundreds of comments, and that's a sentiment the hunters 1:41:55.000 --> 1:41:57.599 have no no, Okay, what I took for on flag 1:41:57.760 --> 1:42:00.800 for the shot was and this goes just a shot 1:42:00.840 --> 1:42:03.400 placement stuff. People said there was a terrible shot and 1:42:03.479 --> 1:42:05.560 shot him in the butt or something. Man, that was 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:09.040 a full length shaft, thirty inch long shaft. I got 1:42:09.120 --> 1:42:13.600 seventeen inches of penetration, steep quartering away angle, hit it 1:42:13.800 --> 1:42:16.880 in the last rib. It was totally immortal shot. I 1:42:17.520 --> 1:42:19.600 won't give on that because people are like, oh, you 1:42:19.640 --> 1:42:21.800 shouldn't killed because I made a follow up shot that 1:42:21.960 --> 1:42:25.800 was better than the first shot, granted the first When 1:42:25.840 --> 1:42:28.559 you shot again, man, he just strolled out. I sorry, 1:42:28.560 --> 1:42:32.519 I couldn't tell what the arrow did. I just tendering him. Yeah, 1:42:32.720 --> 1:42:34.840 out there he felt either arrow would have killed him. 1:42:35.120 --> 1:42:37.640 Either arrow, But you know, I mean he's he's he 1:42:37.800 --> 1:42:40.679 just he just kind of strutted out there like nothing happened, 1:42:41.080 --> 1:42:42.400 Like he didn't evenine that. So I was just like, 1:42:42.680 --> 1:42:44.320 what do you do when he keeps walking? You shoot 1:42:44.360 --> 1:42:46.320 him again? How far was it the second time? About 1:42:46.360 --> 1:42:50.880 twenty four yards? Dude watching it it's unsettling. Man, It's 1:42:50.920 --> 1:42:54.080 like it's like you're like, wow, you know. But then 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:58.439 the thing I think is, yeah, it's unsetting because you're 1:42:58.439 --> 1:43:00.960 sort of watching it through other people's eyes. Yeah, but 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:06.200 anything like you're hunting, the objective is the objective is 1:43:06.840 --> 1:43:09.600 to get a bear. You got a bear, yea? What 1:43:09.720 --> 1:43:11.720 is it removed? The objective of the bearer comes up 1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:15.439 and touches your arrow? Yea? If you had, If you had, 1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:19.800 if someone was hunting deer and the buck came up 1:43:20.080 --> 1:43:21.880 and touched the arrow and the guy shot it, that's 1:43:21.880 --> 1:43:26.120 not going to annoy people. It does, Yeah, I mean 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:27.799 I've made I mean to annoy some of it wouldn't 1:43:27.800 --> 1:43:29.560 annoy eleven thousand of them. I mean it would have 1:43:29.680 --> 1:43:32.400 made it would have made these people that had complaints 1:43:32.479 --> 1:43:34.599 happier if I had shot the bear a tin yards, 1:43:35.040 --> 1:43:39.040 which that doesn't make any difference. But now there's there's 1:43:39.040 --> 1:43:42.479 a lot to this, and obviously people don't understand baiting 1:43:43.200 --> 1:43:46.040 and and Steve, honestly, this is awesome that we're having 1:43:46.080 --> 1:43:49.400 this conversation because I have been torn at different times 1:43:49.400 --> 1:43:53.000 and I feel like I've created my my position, which 1:43:53.040 --> 1:43:56.160 I assume you would agree with hopefully maybe. But just 1:43:56.280 --> 1:43:58.680 like when I first put that up, I thought, is 1:43:58.760 --> 1:44:01.280 this good for hunting? For this to be on YouTube? 1:44:02.400 --> 1:44:06.120 Because of how misunderstood it was, and from a guy 1:44:06.240 --> 1:44:09.080 that's running a small business, and you know, I mean 1:44:09.240 --> 1:44:12.680 like this has been good for my business. Um, you know, 1:44:12.760 --> 1:44:15.639 I'm like, well, am I gonna? I mean, I've really 1:44:15.720 --> 1:44:18.960 wrestled with that because man, the first few months that 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:21.679 I had that up, I was like, this is bizarre. 1:44:22.200 --> 1:44:25.519 I mean, people talking about my mama, people talking about 1:44:25.600 --> 1:44:28.560 my wife, people, my kids. Oh, just people saying I 1:44:28.600 --> 1:44:30.639 hope your mom dies. I hope she dies of cancer. 1:44:30.680 --> 1:44:32.800 I mean just like mom, yeah, oh yeah. They talked 1:44:32.800 --> 1:44:37.760 about juju yeah, oh yeah. So that's when my kids 1:44:37.840 --> 1:44:40.840 call my mother. But no, I just just like like, oh, 1:44:41.400 --> 1:44:43.040 I don't know what it means, but like yeah, Karmen, 1:44:43.240 --> 1:44:47.800 Like my mother's name is Judy, So my my kids 1:44:47.880 --> 1:44:50.559 call her juju. So we joke. We joke with my mom. 1:44:50.640 --> 1:44:53.560 We're like, YouTube hate you. So they were like, I 1:44:53.640 --> 1:44:55.920 hope your mom because they're like, you're dying would be 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:59.400 bad enough. I want your mother to die. Yeah. Anyway, 1:44:59.520 --> 1:45:01.519 if picked up my skin. For a while, I had 1:45:01.560 --> 1:45:04.320 the comments closed down because I was just like, this 1:45:04.520 --> 1:45:07.760 is crazy, that's a great future closing comments. Yeah, But 1:45:07.880 --> 1:45:10.680 then I then I decided to open them back up, 1:45:10.840 --> 1:45:13.160 and I've just left him up in in the you know. 1:45:13.880 --> 1:45:15.320 I guess it has to do with just how much 1:45:15.400 --> 1:45:17.799 time I have. But I've gotten to where I respond 1:45:17.840 --> 1:45:19.800 to some people if they have it, if I can 1:45:19.960 --> 1:45:22.639 discern that they have a genuine like question of why 1:45:22.800 --> 1:45:25.280 we do it. You could write a book off the 1:45:25.600 --> 1:45:28.200 off the comments that I've made two genuine people about 1:45:28.240 --> 1:45:31.160 the North American model for wildlife conservation and hunting older 1:45:31.200 --> 1:45:35.879 mature males being selective. Um bear number bears are thriving 1:45:35.920 --> 1:45:39.040 all across North America. Most of these people think that 1:45:39.320 --> 1:45:42.479 I killed the last black bear on the planet. Actually, 1:45:42.600 --> 1:45:44.560 they think I killed the last grizzly bear on the 1:45:44.600 --> 1:45:48.519 planet because of what color it was. Oh absolutely, They're like, God, 1:45:48.640 --> 1:45:53.360 dare you kill it? Grizzly, and I'm just saying, Kevin, 1:45:53.400 --> 1:45:54.960 have you have you killed the bear over bait? No, 1:45:55.120 --> 1:45:57.960 we're just talking about this. I've never killed a bear. 1:45:58.120 --> 1:46:02.320 He's never killed because we're gonna swop. Yeah, how did 1:46:02.320 --> 1:46:05.200 you avoid bear hunting? I think the biggest part of 1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:08.200 it was in Minnesota. I was always playing baseball in Springs, 1:46:08.280 --> 1:46:12.920 I played college baseball. So, yeah, can I read your quote? Sure, 1:46:13.520 --> 1:46:15.680 we pull it up, go on, finished talking. Yeah, So 1:46:15.800 --> 1:46:17.559 I guess it just wasn't a thing we grew up doing. 1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:19.240 And then when I came out West and I've been 1:46:19.320 --> 1:46:21.800 on bear hunts, haven't killed one myself, but I hear 1:46:21.840 --> 1:46:25.040 a quote from Jim Harrison. Sure, in the spring and summer, 1:46:25.120 --> 1:46:28.120 the boys in the town carry either baseball mits or 1:46:28.200 --> 1:46:32.360 fish poles on their bicycles. Two different types are being formed, 1:46:33.000 --> 1:46:37.320 and though they might merge or vary at times, most 1:46:37.400 --> 1:46:41.360 often they have set themselves up for life. So you 1:46:41.479 --> 1:46:44.360 broke the trend. Yeah. We used to tell Jim here 1:46:44.680 --> 1:46:48.839 he was wrong, but he's dead. Yikes. Yeah. In baseball, 1:46:49.040 --> 1:46:52.600 we usa these like hunting racks on our bikes, and 1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:55.360 we biked baseball practice. One hole would have fishing rod. 1:46:55.439 --> 1:46:58.639 One would have the back. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's 1:46:58.640 --> 1:47:00.679 being a little rigid there. I just I was thinking 1:47:00.680 --> 1:47:03.519 about that. Is what happened was, Um, I want to 1:47:03.560 --> 1:47:06.400 get back to this YouTube video. But the other day 1:47:06.439 --> 1:47:10.080 of my boy for the first time. He's nine and 1:47:10.160 --> 1:47:13.000 we don't him straight too far. But his buddies, the 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:15.640 neighbor kids twelve, and they both liked to fish, so 1:47:16.720 --> 1:47:18.599 they wanted to go fish where they had to ride 1:47:18.640 --> 1:47:23.400 off a mile away or whatever. Um, and I said, 1:47:24.160 --> 1:47:26.120 I said, you can go, but I took the twelve 1:47:26.160 --> 1:47:30.559 year old boy. His name Oddley's Harrison. Took twelve year 1:47:30.560 --> 1:47:34.760 old boy, and I said, you're in charge, and and uh, 1:47:34.960 --> 1:47:36.519 that's great if you guys go together, but I want 1:47:36.520 --> 1:47:38.960 to make sure you come back together, like don't you 1:47:39.080 --> 1:47:40.760 split and leave him and you know what I mean. 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:44.800 And they rolled off together with their backpacks and they 1:47:44.920 --> 1:47:47.599 rigged the rods up their backpacks and rolled off together. 1:47:47.680 --> 1:47:52.479 And dude, it was heartbreaking because he didn't want me 1:47:52.600 --> 1:47:56.000 to go. He didn't say it, but he was like, 1:47:56.400 --> 1:47:59.920 didn't want me to go. He wanted to have the tag. 1:48:00.120 --> 1:48:02.600 He's like was awesome, real concerned about what if it 1:48:02.720 --> 1:48:05.280 was his tackle box or not. If it was his 1:48:05.479 --> 1:48:09.200 rod or not. It was not like old come with right. 1:48:10.240 --> 1:48:12.960 She was just like, we're out of here. He kind 1:48:13.000 --> 1:48:15.840 of like, I hope you don't want to go, and 1:48:15.920 --> 1:48:18.320 they took off and his way out, he goes to 1:48:18.360 --> 1:48:21.040 get a zip like bag for his fish and they 1:48:21.120 --> 1:48:23.880 took off down the road, and um, I put it 1:48:23.920 --> 1:48:27.160 on Instagram the video him taken off on Instagram, and uh, 1:48:28.200 --> 1:48:30.439 and and and I thought of that Jim Harrison quote, 1:48:30.439 --> 1:48:32.479 and I put that Jim Harrison quote in there. Dude, 1:48:32.479 --> 1:48:35.240 it was heartbreaking. Just wait, just wait, there's gonna be 1:48:35.280 --> 1:48:38.840 shat wraps disappearing on your tackle box. I grounded him 1:48:38.960 --> 1:48:41.479 last night because he lost a bowl, Like, how do 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:43.800 you lose a boat? I caunually losing arrows, but you 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:48.320 don't lose the bowl. Was talking about all this stuff 1:48:48.360 --> 1:48:50.840 of disappearing. Now it's starting to come back around. But yeah, 1:48:50.840 --> 1:48:53.880 he found it and got on grounded. But but I 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:56.479 had to like try to find a way to express 1:48:56.520 --> 1:48:58.400 to him that it was not acceptable to lose the 1:48:58.479 --> 1:49:06.720 whole bow. Oh man. Anyhow, Uh, playing baseball didn't bear hunt. Yeah, 1:49:06.800 --> 1:49:09.439 sell me on bear sell me on bear bait. Yeah, 1:49:10.439 --> 1:49:13.880 So anywhere that you can hunt bears over bait. It's 1:49:13.920 --> 1:49:17.439 a management tool for the powers that be that have 1:49:17.640 --> 1:49:22.439 the data, that want to achieve a harvest objective of 1:49:22.560 --> 1:49:24.800 taking out a certain number of bears. That's the way, 1:49:25.160 --> 1:49:27.040 that's the only way they can do it. I mean, 1:49:27.160 --> 1:49:29.320 you you look at any place where it's legal bait 1:49:29.360 --> 1:49:32.800 bears and it is a management tool. Spotting stock hunting 1:49:32.880 --> 1:49:35.679 could not take out the number of bears that they need, 1:49:36.439 --> 1:49:41.200 and so they use baiting as a management tool for bears. 1:49:41.360 --> 1:49:42.680 Can I tell you a story about the first bear 1:49:42.680 --> 1:49:45.920 I ever saw in Michigan? Grew up there, there's bears there. 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:49.400 My brother drew a bear tag. We put out and 1:49:49.520 --> 1:49:52.639 lived our whole lives. Never saw damn bear. He put 1:49:52.680 --> 1:49:56.840 his out a bait pile. Within a couple days, I 1:49:56.880 --> 1:50:00.679 saw my first bear. You know what I'm saying. It works, 1:50:01.560 --> 1:50:09.720 just flat thick. Yeah. Why did game in Phish agencies 1:50:09.800 --> 1:50:12.960 need to reduce the numbers of bears? That's just I mean, 1:50:13.040 --> 1:50:15.839 just like every other thing, there's a suitable amount of habitat. 1:50:16.200 --> 1:50:19.360 I mean, you know, like we've got X number of 1:50:19.720 --> 1:50:24.720 available quality habitat for bears. Those bears that bear population 1:50:24.800 --> 1:50:28.519 will remain healthy if it stays at these numbers, bear 1:50:28.600 --> 1:50:31.800 population is increased by ten percent per year if you 1:50:31.920 --> 1:50:36.800 don't if you don't harvest these bears, then overpopulation isn't 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:39.639 like the end of the world. But you know, if 1:50:39.800 --> 1:50:43.639 if a block habitat is supposed to can confeasibly hold 1:50:43.800 --> 1:50:47.320 ten bears and it's got fifteen in it, all fifteen 1:50:47.479 --> 1:50:51.080 or compromised in some way, so why not take out 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:56.439 those five balance it and have a population that stable. 1:50:56.439 --> 1:50:59.160 I mean, it's just just like any other species. But 1:50:59.360 --> 1:51:01.439 you're talking about a little bit different situation when you 1:51:01.560 --> 1:51:04.160 we're talking about a big predator. That there's a low 1:51:04.280 --> 1:51:07.639 cultural tolerance for a bear being on your back porch 1:51:07.680 --> 1:51:11.559 eating your bird seed as opposed to deer. So I mean, 1:51:12.080 --> 1:51:14.160 I think that we just had a running We just 1:51:14.240 --> 1:51:16.760 had a bear in our neighborhood. That bear is not 1:51:16.840 --> 1:51:19.400 alive anymore. Yeah, he wasn't killed by a hunter. See, 1:51:19.479 --> 1:51:22.800 I mean, that's that's the thing. Bears are going to 1:51:22.880 --> 1:51:25.720 be taken out of the population, you know, So why 1:51:25.760 --> 1:51:29.599 wouldn't we use hunting in Arkansas? Like so? Arkansas reinstated 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:32.240 s bear season in nineteen eighty, So from nineteen eighty 1:51:32.320 --> 1:51:34.720 to two thousand, one that all you could do in 1:51:34.840 --> 1:51:38.120 Arkansas would be equivalent to a Western spot in stock hunt. Okay, 1:51:38.320 --> 1:51:39.720 I mean you just had to go out and just 1:51:39.800 --> 1:51:45.240 hunt them. Okay, Oh, I do that now by choice. Yeah, 1:51:45.960 --> 1:51:48.840 I do that now by choice. But I'm I'm giving 1:51:48.880 --> 1:51:51.679 you an example. So for twenty one years you could 1:51:51.760 --> 1:51:54.360 only hunt in that way in Arkansas, and they killed 1:51:54.880 --> 1:51:57.280 I don't have the exact data, but I'm gonna guess 1:51:57.360 --> 1:52:00.160 less than twenty bears a year. I mean, because it's 1:52:00.200 --> 1:52:02.360 just such a tough hunt. It's just such a low 1:52:02.439 --> 1:52:06.440 odds hunt. I mean, bears were being killed just by happenstance, 1:52:06.520 --> 1:52:12.600 by walking past the deer hunters. Opportunistic yeah, yeah, opportunistic 1:52:12.680 --> 1:52:15.960 deer hunters killing bears. And so basically the bear properation 1:52:16.000 --> 1:52:17.599 got to a point where they said, man, we've got 1:52:17.720 --> 1:52:20.240 to take out three bears a year. How are we 1:52:20.320 --> 1:52:23.360 going to do that? Well, in Arkansas, the furthest you've 1:52:23.400 --> 1:52:26.439 seen in any directions about fifty yards in most places, 1:52:26.479 --> 1:52:28.800 so that's not by spot and stock hunting. And they said, 1:52:28.840 --> 1:52:32.760 we're gonna use bow hunters over bait on private land 1:52:33.080 --> 1:52:35.400 to manage the bears in Arkansas. Do the same thing 1:52:35.479 --> 1:52:38.280 in southeast Oklahoma, and so where people have a problem 1:52:38.360 --> 1:52:42.559 with it is this emotional sense that some way it's 1:52:42.600 --> 1:52:46.960 not you know, fair to put out bait and draw 1:52:47.000 --> 1:52:50.960 a bear in Well. My position on it is is 1:52:51.040 --> 1:52:56.920 that if if the goal of conservation is to strategically 1:52:57.040 --> 1:53:00.800 take out animals, bear baiting is has the opportunity to 1:53:00.880 --> 1:53:05.439 be highly selective. You can be highly selective. Not everybody is, 1:53:05.880 --> 1:53:08.240 but you have the opportunity to be highly selective watching 1:53:08.280 --> 1:53:10.800 animal for a long period of time before you can 1:53:11.080 --> 1:53:12.920 you can sex it, you can tell its age, you know, 1:53:13.040 --> 1:53:15.679 get a general estimate, you can make a wise decision 1:53:15.680 --> 1:53:17.960 about where you're gonna shoot that bear. I would argue 1:53:18.040 --> 1:53:20.800 that that spot in stock hunting is the least selective 1:53:21.160 --> 1:53:24.600 type of hunting. Oh, I'd agree with that at least opportunity. 1:53:24.640 --> 1:53:28.080 Like if you say that does it and what chance 1:53:28.160 --> 1:53:30.439 does the hunter have the map whether he acts on 1:53:30.560 --> 1:53:33.439 it or not, and what chances the hunter have the 1:53:33.520 --> 1:53:35.720 maximum capability and knowing what we're going on, I'd be 1:53:35.800 --> 1:53:41.000 like a tree hund hunting. Yeah, in bait probably one 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:42.599 of the same, because officis, they might treat you high 1:53:42.680 --> 1:53:44.160 up to get a good look at him and the 1:53:44.280 --> 1:53:48.280 third being spot start. Yeah, and so if you're talking about, well, 1:53:48.280 --> 1:53:51.160 who's the conservation hero, because I've been, I'm on both 1:53:51.200 --> 1:53:53.280 sides of it when I kill the I don't want 1:53:53.280 --> 1:53:56.240 to get too far away from what I'm talking about. 1:53:56.280 --> 1:53:59.320 But like that's the number one foundational thing that I 1:53:59.360 --> 1:54:02.040 think gives us is that this is a management tool. 1:54:02.320 --> 1:54:05.920 But what nobody People can buy that, but they can't 1:54:05.960 --> 1:54:09.280 buy what. People have a hard time understanding, and it's 1:54:09.320 --> 1:54:13.360 because of a skewed foundational understanding of wildlife as they 1:54:13.479 --> 1:54:17.360 feel like that this is somehow unfair to do this. 1:54:18.280 --> 1:54:21.800 And I feel like Steve, that we're shooting ourselves in 1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:25.679 the foot by hunters. It's almost like we are giving 1:54:25.920 --> 1:54:34.040 into the emotional propaganda that a wild beast is is, 1:54:34.800 --> 1:54:36.760 you know, like you shouldn't you shouldn't kill a bear, 1:54:36.880 --> 1:54:39.920 charismatic megafauna. You know, you shouldn't kill a bear. It's 1:54:39.920 --> 1:54:41.680 okay to kill a deer, but you shouldn't kill a bear. 1:54:42.480 --> 1:54:45.760 Like totally emotional propaganda. This is an animal that just 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:48.920 we have this emotional connection to and I kind of 1:54:48.960 --> 1:54:51.600 feel like that hunters play into that a little bit, 1:54:52.200 --> 1:54:55.640 like we're like, yeah, I don't mean that they the 1:54:56.080 --> 1:54:58.480 hunters are like, Okay, I'll give you I'll give up 1:54:58.520 --> 1:55:03.120 on that one. Yeah. And and here's I'm not jumping 1:55:03.160 --> 1:55:07.440 too far ahead, Steve, but I feel like that we've 1:55:07.480 --> 1:55:10.840 we've started to use a hashtag called guard the Gate. Okay, 1:55:11.200 --> 1:55:15.000 guard the gate in the right now, the biggest threat 1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:16.800 to hunting. I mean, there's lots of threats, you know, 1:55:17.000 --> 1:55:20.040 access to land and habitat and these things, but one 1:55:20.080 --> 1:55:23.680 of the most direct threats is anti hunting community massively 1:55:24.120 --> 1:55:28.080 coming in on us. And bear hunting is the gate 1:55:28.480 --> 1:55:31.120 for the anti hunting community to get into our space. 1:55:31.720 --> 1:55:37.760 Would you agree with for And so our stance is 1:55:37.960 --> 1:55:41.440 why wouldn't we want to like create and form And 1:55:41.520 --> 1:55:44.280 I'm open to for input, but like, why wouldn't we 1:55:44.320 --> 1:55:48.320 want to create and form this powerful narrative for why 1:55:48.880 --> 1:55:51.320 that we do what we do? Why do we use hounds? 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:54.200 Why do we use bait? Because a lot of hunters 1:55:54.240 --> 1:55:56.200 don't understand that a lot of hunters would be like, ah, 1:55:56.360 --> 1:55:59.200 we could give that to them. Like honestly, I think 1:55:59.200 --> 1:56:01.280 a lot of hunters would just be like, Hey, why 1:56:01.280 --> 1:56:04.480 don't we just give them, just give them the hounds 1:56:04.560 --> 1:56:07.680 and the bait. Just let them have that, but we 1:56:07.800 --> 1:56:10.720 all know that that will not solve the problem, because 1:56:10.720 --> 1:56:13.200 they're not just after hounds and bait. It's just the 1:56:13.280 --> 1:56:16.280 lowest rung on the ladder. It's just the it's just 1:56:16.400 --> 1:56:20.000 the easiest thing that's easy enough to sell. And so 1:56:20.160 --> 1:56:22.200 if we could sit down in a perfect world with 1:56:22.280 --> 1:56:24.480 the anti the powers that be in the anti hunting 1:56:24.480 --> 1:56:28.520 community and could truly say, hey, will you stop harassing 1:56:28.600 --> 1:56:30.880 our way of life if we will give this to you, 1:56:31.080 --> 1:56:33.400 I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it, though, Well, I wouldn't 1:56:33.400 --> 1:56:34.880 even make even if I knew it was like even 1:56:34.880 --> 1:56:37.040 if like somehow it was like an enforceable deal, I 1:56:37.080 --> 1:56:39.080 wouldn't want to do the deal. Well, but the thing 1:56:39.240 --> 1:56:40.960 is is that they wouldn't. I mean, like if we 1:56:41.120 --> 1:56:43.320 give them let's say, let's say that, I mean, let's 1:56:43.320 --> 1:56:46.120 just say it was somehow it was possible, like through whatever, 1:56:46.200 --> 1:56:47.760 it was like possible that you would make a truce 1:56:47.840 --> 1:56:49.880 and be like, Okay, I'll forfeit, I'll forfeit these two 1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:53.440 things and then you'll never mass with us again. Um, 1:56:53.800 --> 1:56:56.840 I would be like I wouldn't. I wouldn't make the deal, 1:56:57.880 --> 1:57:00.360 would make that deal. And that's why I think sometimes 1:57:00.440 --> 1:57:03.560 we're missing it when it's not. I mean, we have 1:57:03.760 --> 1:57:08.920 been really my personal I mean, I would rather kill 1:57:08.960 --> 1:57:11.400 a bear in the National Force in Arkansas with my 1:57:11.480 --> 1:57:13.480 traadbo just out in the mountains. So it's not like 1:57:13.600 --> 1:57:16.080 I just have this love affair with bait and bears, 1:57:16.840 --> 1:57:20.240 but I feel like that it's a critical component of 1:57:20.320 --> 1:57:23.680 this whole mechanism of hunting that we have to guard 1:57:24.160 --> 1:57:27.600 this thing and so guard the gate, you know, the 1:57:29.720 --> 1:57:33.080 well that those That's that's my main my main thoughts. 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:35.440 What annoys me a little bit and you run into 1:57:35.520 --> 1:57:37.200 this in a in a handful of things, is people 1:57:37.280 --> 1:57:42.320 will take it's almost like almost it's almost like I 1:57:42.600 --> 1:57:44.000 almost the only want to bring it up. No, I 1:57:44.080 --> 1:57:47.320 bring it up. Let's say a hunter says I don't 1:57:47.320 --> 1:57:50.160 have any desire to shoot a bear over bait. People 1:57:50.240 --> 1:57:54.760 take that to be a condemnation. And yeah, no, people 1:57:54.800 --> 1:57:58.760 do like I don't uh hunt whether they are so 1:57:58.840 --> 1:58:02.120 people be like, oh, he must condemn a r So 1:58:02.320 --> 1:58:04.600 like I don't hold the long bow. Do you also 1:58:04.640 --> 1:58:09.280 think that I condemn long bows. It's just like I 1:58:09.400 --> 1:58:11.400 just feel like there's a little bit of a part 1:58:11.440 --> 1:58:13.720 of that sensitivity is people want to. There's if there's 1:58:13.720 --> 1:58:16.080 a practice that the broader public might view as being 1:58:16.120 --> 1:58:21.120 controversial that somehow you not participating in it is supporting 1:58:21.480 --> 1:58:24.320 that when you could, when you could have very much 1:58:24.400 --> 1:58:28.600 like I think they're uh, typically it would be I 1:58:28.760 --> 1:58:31.800 haven't hunted that way, I haven't gone out and booked 1:58:31.840 --> 1:58:34.800 a trip to go do that. Do I have a 1:58:34.840 --> 1:58:38.280 problem with it? Absolutely not. But there are a thousand 1:58:38.400 --> 1:58:42.120 things to do in this world. There's a thousand hunts 1:58:42.600 --> 1:58:46.560 to do kinds of hunts in a lifetime. You only 1:58:46.600 --> 1:58:49.360 get to do a hundred, and so does that mean 1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:53.120 I hate Yeah, I think that's probably a symptom of 1:58:53.200 --> 1:58:55.960 being the bottom round on the ladder. Maybe you're a 1:58:55.960 --> 1:59:01.240 little insecure. I get it, I get it. But then 1:59:01.400 --> 1:59:04.400 if you take someone like another beleaguered group would be trappers, 1:59:04.840 --> 1:59:09.440 trappers don't get pissed at people for not trapping. Yeah, well, 1:59:09.480 --> 1:59:11.640 I don't think. I don't think bear hunters are upset 1:59:11.680 --> 1:59:13.800 for people for not hunting bear over bait. I think 1:59:13.840 --> 1:59:19.120 it's just a general a general stigma, and not everywhere, 1:59:19.280 --> 1:59:21.760 but in some places that just it's like taboo to 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:23.760 do this, you know, Yeah, you know, one of the 1:59:23.800 --> 1:59:25.640 things that people mix up a whole bunch of things. 1:59:26.080 --> 1:59:28.960 People mix up. They're like, and we talked about this 1:59:29.000 --> 1:59:32.840 all damn time. We talked about yesterday ethics, right, but 1:59:33.000 --> 1:59:36.040 like ethics and what end do you need, like ethics 1:59:36.160 --> 1:59:39.240 meaning the challenge for the hunter or somehow something to 1:59:39.280 --> 1:59:41.680 do with ethics meaning the experience of the animal, the 1:59:41.760 --> 1:59:47.480 experience of the animal. You're not doing the animal service 1:59:47.640 --> 1:59:50.720 or disservice to kill it one way or another, except 1:59:50.760 --> 1:59:53.320 for what's most effective. You'd be if you're gonna look 1:59:53.320 --> 1:59:57.600 and say, like, what is most ethical? And I would say, okay, 1:59:57.640 --> 2:00:00.680 in terms of the likelihood of success us or in 2:00:00.840 --> 2:00:02.600 terms of like sort of like what's the most ethical 2:00:02.640 --> 2:00:05.560 way to dispatch an animal? I think that if you're 2:00:05.560 --> 2:00:07.320 saying the most ethical way to dispatch an animal to 2:00:07.400 --> 2:00:09.840 be bait because you have the greatest chance for a 2:00:09.880 --> 2:00:13.200 really good shot opportunity. So people be like, honeymore based, 2:00:13.240 --> 2:00:15.720 not ethical. I'm like, what what part of this you're 2:00:15.720 --> 2:00:19.440 talking about? Because getting a twenty yard shot at a 2:00:19.520 --> 2:00:22.600 stationary animal that's broadside you that you can make a 2:00:22.640 --> 2:00:26.280 good judgment on what's going on and place your arrow carefully, 2:00:26.440 --> 2:00:29.200 that's pretty damn ethical. If the goal is to kill 2:00:29.200 --> 2:00:32.040 it quick. Yeah. But then but that's not the that's 2:00:32.040 --> 2:00:33.760 not what people are on the top about that. That's 2:00:33.760 --> 2:00:35.000 the thing. That's why I hate when people use the 2:00:35.040 --> 2:00:37.720 word I almost hate, like the word ethics. I don't 2:00:37.760 --> 2:00:39.080 hate the word ethics, but I mean I hate when 2:00:39.120 --> 2:00:41.040 it's like describing that way. Like I've had so many 2:00:41.080 --> 2:00:42.680 people come to me and say, oh, I hunt with 2:00:42.760 --> 2:00:47.000 the bolks. It's more ethical to play devil's advocate. Okay, 2:00:47.320 --> 2:00:49.280 we are. I think the thing we've brought it before. 2:00:49.320 --> 2:00:52.320 The bait that can trip people up is that you're 2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:57.640 changing the animals natural behavior or natural patterns. But then 2:00:57.720 --> 2:01:00.200 some people would argue this, when a whale water is 2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:02.440 up on the beach and there's twenty bears feeding off it, 2:01:02.600 --> 2:01:06.440 is the weale guilty of changing their natural patterns. No, 2:01:08.360 --> 2:01:10.360 what's natural is if there's a big cache of food 2:01:10.360 --> 2:01:13.080 out in the woods, as an elk carcass, if you like, 2:01:13.160 --> 2:01:15.040 If you butcher an elk and leave the gut pile 2:01:15.040 --> 2:01:16.720 on the bear eats, that have you changed the bear's 2:01:16.800 --> 2:01:19.880 natural habits. He's out in the woods, he finds a 2:01:19.920 --> 2:01:23.000 big thing to eat and hang it. You're capitalizing upon 2:01:23.040 --> 2:01:25.040 a natural thing that a bear does. I mean a 2:01:25.160 --> 2:01:27.560 bear interacts with a bait site the same way that 2:01:27.680 --> 2:01:31.040 he interacts with a wide oak acorn covered ridge. I 2:01:31.080 --> 2:01:33.800 mean he pounds it until the food sources gone. I 2:01:33.880 --> 2:01:36.760 mean like it. Yeah, I mean you're I mean, I'm 2:01:36.800 --> 2:01:42.320 just doing the whole Devil's advocating. We're two douvils advocating. Hey, 2:01:42.400 --> 2:01:45.440 can I can I paying the story? That could. I'm 2:01:45.440 --> 2:01:48.000 not gonna step on anybody's toes, but it could. I 2:01:48.120 --> 2:01:50.760 think it's I think it's legit. So I think I 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:53.640 think the issue, especially with hunters, is is an issue 2:01:53.680 --> 2:01:56.280 that I think could be characterized by fair chase. People 2:01:56.400 --> 2:01:59.480 say it's not fair chase to hunt. But yeah, okay, 2:02:00.000 --> 2:02:02.160 I'm gonna start the story by saying that I love 2:02:02.320 --> 2:02:04.880 Western spot in style hunting. I hunted Montana, killed the 2:02:04.880 --> 2:02:06.960 bear in Montana, hauled my mules up here this year, 2:02:07.000 --> 2:02:09.360 and hinted to do it yourself. Deal. I love it, 2:02:10.000 --> 2:02:12.760 but let me Yeah, I killed the bear man, brought 2:02:12.800 --> 2:02:16.920 my mules up from Arkansas. Where, Oh, Western Montana. I'll 2:02:16.960 --> 2:02:20.280 tell you right where after we're off there here. Um, 2:02:20.920 --> 2:02:23.040 I don't know where you're out here hunting the spring. Yeah, 2:02:23.240 --> 2:02:26.440 how made you see a lot? We we saw bears 2:02:26.480 --> 2:02:30.160 al ust every day, killed the killed a nice boar. 2:02:30.760 --> 2:02:32.480 You show me where. I mean, I don't even know exactly. 2:02:32.520 --> 2:02:38.080 I'm just curious. I'll show you. Um, So, what's what's 2:02:38.160 --> 2:02:43.080 more fair Chase? Two hunt with a high powered rifle 2:02:43.480 --> 2:02:49.720 with a custom turret on it, have technological mapping capabilities 2:02:49.880 --> 2:02:57.200 that absolutely are supernatural compared to the human navigation abilities 2:02:57.240 --> 2:02:59.120 we have. I'm talking about having like an app on 2:02:59.200 --> 2:03:04.440 your phone, having a four wheeler, and having optics which 2:03:05.320 --> 2:03:11.160 greatly radically increase your natural ability to see. So what's 2:03:11.200 --> 2:03:14.160 more fair chase we're talking about we're talking about success rate? No, 2:03:14.240 --> 2:03:16.720 we're talking about fair Chase like fair well, but we 2:03:16.800 --> 2:03:18.480 have to have a way. We have to have a way. 2:03:18.520 --> 2:03:21.360 We're finally checking it. If it's success rates, it's still 2:03:21.400 --> 2:03:23.320 better to home with bait. Okay, I said, you cut 2:03:23.360 --> 2:03:24.640 me right to the chach. I should have known you 2:03:24.640 --> 2:03:28.520 would have done it. Man, you're good now. So yeah, 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:33.080 so you give me those four things, which optics and 2:03:33.120 --> 2:03:34.920 we're gonna give a plug for on X hunt maps 2:03:34.920 --> 2:03:36.680 because they're awesome. I wouldn't have killed the bear I 2:03:36.760 --> 2:03:40.800 did without on X, that's the truth. Um, And uh, 2:03:41.440 --> 2:03:44.880 you know a four wheeler, a map or you got 2:03:45.000 --> 2:03:47.160 a bucket of bait and a mule and a bow. 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:52.440 Which one is? Which guy is more fair chase? Again, 2:03:54.480 --> 2:03:57.880 it's a difficult word to work with because we don't 2:03:58.320 --> 2:04:02.040 know what it means. If we mean that it makes 2:04:02.120 --> 2:04:05.600 it really if we mean what way makes it harder 2:04:05.680 --> 2:04:07.400 to kill a bear? Which I think is what some 2:04:07.480 --> 2:04:10.640 people are kind of talking about, like evens the playing field. 2:04:11.280 --> 2:04:14.640 And you said to me, which of those people a 2:04:14.720 --> 2:04:18.400 guy with a quad and an X and a high 2:04:18.440 --> 2:04:23.160 powered rifle and optics in a non bait state compared 2:04:23.200 --> 2:04:25.760 to a guy with bait and a bow and a 2:04:25.880 --> 2:04:28.920 bait state, the guy with bait and a bow will 2:04:29.000 --> 2:04:32.200 have a higher success rate than the guy in a 2:04:32.280 --> 2:04:35.840 non bait state. But I don't know that that's what 2:04:37.280 --> 2:04:38.840 I don't know that that's what people mean when they 2:04:38.880 --> 2:04:45.640 talk about this kind of Eldo Leopold. This guy slipped 2:04:45.680 --> 2:04:48.360 this in real quick that Boone and Crockett basically says 2:04:48.840 --> 2:04:51.120 the fair chase is just in a in a manner 2:04:51.240 --> 2:04:54.240 that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair 2:04:54.280 --> 2:04:59.400 advantage over the game animal. Again, it's slippery language. Crockett 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:05.960 is all basically, well, they're they're totally cool with baiting hounds, Boone, 2:05:06.000 --> 2:05:08.960 crock It is. I am too. Yeah, I'm glad to 2:05:09.000 --> 2:05:13.600 hear that. Man, I am one of one of the 2:05:13.680 --> 2:05:15.280 when what I've ever said or done something to make 2:05:15.320 --> 2:05:18.760 you feel otherwise besides saying what's interesting to me? Now? 2:05:18.840 --> 2:05:24.080 I get it. You know I think I don't like starfruit. Yeah, 2:05:24.240 --> 2:05:30.520 I'm with you. I think sometimes we're probably probably a 2:05:30.600 --> 2:05:36.560 little maybe a little insecure for real, Like you got 2:05:36.640 --> 2:05:41.280 what Randall Weaver calls the persecution complex. Yeah, we do. 2:05:41.800 --> 2:05:44.480 I mean what's true because they are persecuted. I mean 2:05:44.760 --> 2:05:49.120 we we really are. So nah. Yeah, you know I 2:05:49.200 --> 2:05:52.320 got half my Brody, our buddy Brody. He would he 2:05:52.400 --> 2:05:55.640 did a hound hunt this year. Man. I loved hunted mountains, 2:05:55.680 --> 2:05:58.760 the hounds. I haven't had it. I would. I would 2:05:58.760 --> 2:06:00.480 wake up tomorrow and go hunt Bear the house. Hey, 2:06:01.120 --> 2:06:05.640 that's like home with hounds. You don't like? Very interesting? 2:06:05.680 --> 2:06:07.400 To come with me to New Mexico on a meal 2:06:07.480 --> 2:06:11.560 based hound hunt for Bear. You do that, I'm going 2:06:11.680 --> 2:06:14.200 to you get around a little bit, uh yeah, you 2:06:14.280 --> 2:06:18.800 bounce around? Yeah? Yeah, I would do that it's it's 2:06:18.800 --> 2:06:21.480 gonna be. I'm really interested in hounds, man, Like how 2:06:22.400 --> 2:06:24.160 like all this stuff? I mean, I like how much 2:06:24.200 --> 2:06:27.480 stuff those people know. Yeah, so it's powerful for us 2:06:27.560 --> 2:06:29.840 to get a get even just a small hat tip 2:06:29.960 --> 2:06:32.440 from a guy like you, Steve for real. Yeah, I 2:06:32.480 --> 2:06:34.760 mean like the first bear ever eight was my brother. 2:06:35.040 --> 2:06:36.520 The first piece of bearing me to ever eate, we 2:06:36.560 --> 2:06:39.360 eat we that bear down to the nobles was a 2:06:39.400 --> 2:06:41.280 bear my brother Danny killed over bait Pie when he 2:06:41.360 --> 2:06:43.680 drew a bear tan in Michigan. Second bear every it 2:06:43.800 --> 2:06:46.200 was the one my other brother killed over bait Pilo, Michigan. 2:06:46.360 --> 2:06:49.440 This this is what we say, and you may say 2:06:49.480 --> 2:06:50.880 it too. Maybe I've never heard you say it, but 2:06:51.280 --> 2:06:55.000 we have absolutely got to defend every legal method of 2:06:55.120 --> 2:07:00.360 hunting that I mean and in my traditional use, every 2:07:00.440 --> 2:07:03.080 legal method of hunting that's legal today in twenty nineteen, 2:07:03.640 --> 2:07:06.480 it's been run through the ringer of all the things. 2:07:06.560 --> 2:07:08.520 You know, is that science based? Is that? This? Is 2:07:08.600 --> 2:07:11.920 that that? And we've got nothing left to give the 2:07:11.960 --> 2:07:15.760 anti hunting community. Well, my my perspective on this, I mean, 2:07:16.000 --> 2:07:19.920 my perspective is, like I said, you know, I support 2:07:21.280 --> 2:07:27.920 people's right two have a legally ordained and legally managed 2:07:27.960 --> 2:07:31.919 way of extracting natural resources of sustainable populations of wildlife. 2:07:31.920 --> 2:07:35.480 I've used population like healthy populations of wildlife where there's 2:07:35.520 --> 2:07:38.640 public demand, and used for it a view that we 2:07:38.760 --> 2:07:42.560 have a right set up, a system set up by 2:07:42.560 --> 2:07:46.000 which we determined the resources viable and it can withstand 2:07:46.240 --> 2:07:48.880 x amount of pressure, and we allocate that through a 2:07:48.920 --> 2:07:51.040 democratic process and give people the right to go out 2:07:51.080 --> 2:07:54.720 and utilize resources. And bears are part of that. There's 2:07:54.760 --> 2:07:57.480 certainly desire always has been. If you went to the 2:07:57.520 --> 2:08:01.120 frontier settlements, they shot deer for hides, they ate bear meat. 2:08:01.840 --> 2:08:05.800 H Now, in a lot of places, that's just the 2:08:05.880 --> 2:08:08.400 only way to go about it, Like traditionally, that's all 2:08:08.480 --> 2:08:11.520 people have done it. I have no desire to see 2:08:11.560 --> 2:08:14.400 that be taken away from them, especially in places where 2:08:14.400 --> 2:08:17.640 you're effectively killing bear hunting and then nolier effectively killing 2:08:17.640 --> 2:08:24.360 bear hunting. Yeah um yeah yeah. And I you know, 2:08:25.120 --> 2:08:27.040 I love I want to say that I'm not like 2:08:28.400 --> 2:08:31.080 I mean, I I enjoy baiting bears, I do, but 2:08:31.440 --> 2:08:34.440 you know I enjoy spotting stock bear hunting just the same. 2:08:34.440 --> 2:08:36.160 I mean, I see what a lot of people don't 2:08:36.200 --> 2:08:38.880 understand that have never baited bears? Is how difficult that 2:08:39.000 --> 2:08:42.400 it is, truly and that may sound crazy, but if 2:08:42.440 --> 2:08:45.280 you've never done it, and difficult in terms of not 2:08:45.400 --> 2:08:47.200 just killing the bear, but killing the bear that you're after. 2:08:47.320 --> 2:08:49.280 It's just like hunting a big white tail. It's difficult. 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:52.720 People don't understand that. Um, it's a ton of works. 2:08:53.760 --> 2:08:57.600 Understand that hunting a cat behind hounds is difficult. It 2:08:57.640 --> 2:09:00.040 takes It takes a dedication of a lifetime to be 2:09:00.080 --> 2:09:02.240 able to do that, to have your own pack of dogs, 2:09:02.320 --> 2:09:05.000 to know the cats, to know where they crossed, to 2:09:05.080 --> 2:09:10.040 know what you need in a hound. I mean it's 2:09:10.160 --> 2:09:15.080 laughable in someone you know, sitting on the edge of 2:09:15.120 --> 2:09:17.400 the edge of an apple orchard with a crossbow in 2:09:17.440 --> 2:09:20.560 a tree shoots a deer, which I'm all for, God 2:09:20.640 --> 2:09:23.160 bless you. But when they're like, oh, I don't think 2:09:23.200 --> 2:09:26.760 it's okay to to spend your whole life training up 2:09:26.760 --> 2:09:28.560 a hound dog and learn how to find a damn 2:09:28.600 --> 2:09:32.480 mountain lion, And it's like, oh, that doesn't take any 2:09:32.560 --> 2:09:38.960 nohow man, We've said. The houndsman that we've gotten to 2:09:39.000 --> 2:09:43.640 spend some time with, have always been the best. You know, 2:09:44.040 --> 2:09:47.560 overall outdoorsman. You can't take it in the woods. You know, 2:09:47.680 --> 2:09:51.120 the best woodsman that we've ever met trackers, and my god, 2:09:52.160 --> 2:09:54.760 that's right. I mean, they dedicate their their lives to it. 2:09:54.800 --> 2:09:56.520 I mean, you can't people just still it down to 2:09:56.600 --> 2:09:59.000 one thing that you shoot something in a tree. They 2:09:59.080 --> 2:10:01.400 boiled the whole thing down to the part that they 2:10:01.480 --> 2:10:05.200 care least about. And it's such a traditional method to 2:10:05.360 --> 2:10:10.320 I mean, like the hunting culture of North America was 2:10:10.440 --> 2:10:12.680 built not totally on the backs of hounds, but I 2:10:12.760 --> 2:10:16.200 mean they've been doing it since the beginning at least European. 2:10:16.480 --> 2:10:19.960 European hunting on this continent highly traditional. You know what 2:10:20.080 --> 2:10:23.040 Prus houndsman like don't view the kill as the thing 2:10:23.640 --> 2:10:27.360 because they don't care who does the shooting. You have 2:10:27.520 --> 2:10:29.839 some guy that like you have some guy that patterns 2:10:29.920 --> 2:10:31.880 some big white tail and finally cracks the coda on 2:10:32.040 --> 2:10:34.240 some big white tail. Does he turn around going you know, 2:10:34.360 --> 2:10:35.680 I'll tell you what, Bob w don't you go up 2:10:35.680 --> 2:10:40.120 there and get shot? He don't know, Like, dude, all 2:10:40.160 --> 2:10:42.960 the work is getting it, catching it, like I really 2:10:43.040 --> 2:10:45.720 don't care. Like they don't care. And a lot of 2:10:45.760 --> 2:10:48.640 them get to where they don't shoot. They're like, don't shoot. Ah. 2:10:49.080 --> 2:10:52.760 They release way more, way more animals than they take, 2:10:53.600 --> 2:10:55.840 almost all of them, almost every hounds. When I know, 2:10:56.000 --> 2:11:00.080 I got one last quick question for you. Uh how 2:11:00.120 --> 2:11:01.600 do you how do you how do you spot stock 2:11:01.640 --> 2:11:04.480 bears in Arkansas? What are they doing? So we're hunt 2:11:04.520 --> 2:11:08.200 in the fall, and uh, man, I'm looking for white 2:11:08.280 --> 2:11:14.520 oak acorns and bear sign, bear scat and white oak acrens. Well, 2:11:14.760 --> 2:11:18.240 you know, ambush hunt. So I do a lot of 2:11:18.280 --> 2:11:21.879 what I call slip hunting, which is just slowly moving 2:11:22.000 --> 2:11:24.320 through places, covering a lot of ground with a wind 2:11:24.400 --> 2:11:28.920 in your face, moving into just covering a ton of ground, 2:11:29.000 --> 2:11:31.400 just trying to find bear. And you might kill a 2:11:31.480 --> 2:11:34.520 bear while you're doing that. You might see a bear 2:11:34.600 --> 2:11:36.680 before he sees you, and then you're able to put 2:11:36.720 --> 2:11:41.800 a stock on him. Or in your rambling you find 2:11:42.160 --> 2:11:45.000 a ridge top or a finger or a flat or 2:11:45.080 --> 2:11:48.120 a saddle that's covered in bear scat and bear trails 2:11:48.160 --> 2:11:50.440 and white oak acorns, and maybe there's not a bear 2:11:50.520 --> 2:11:52.680 there right then, but you come back in the next 2:11:52.800 --> 2:11:56.040 day and hunting like a deer. That's the that's the 2:11:56.200 --> 2:11:58.160 essence of it. I'd say it's it's one of the 2:11:58.280 --> 2:12:00.640 toughest big game hunts in North America. Have you been 2:12:00.720 --> 2:12:04.600 successful doing that? Yeah, it's to me, it's the it's 2:12:04.640 --> 2:12:10.240 the sheep hunt of the South. Yeah. Now, one of 2:12:10.280 --> 2:12:17.000 my one of my greatest, most personal, you know, achievements 2:12:17.040 --> 2:12:20.240 inside of hunting was I killed a bear in Arkansas 2:12:21.240 --> 2:12:24.560 with my bow spotting stock, actually killed it over water. 2:12:25.480 --> 2:12:28.320 And uh, in the next day, I went into Oklahoma 2:12:28.400 --> 2:12:30.880 and did the same thing, killed the bear of the 2:12:30.920 --> 2:12:35.200 tread bow, just stalking. So two days. Yeah, and it 2:12:35.320 --> 2:12:37.960 was because I just I wouldn't even plan it on hunting. 2:12:38.000 --> 2:12:40.520 It's a whole another story. But I had gone into Scout, 2:12:40.600 --> 2:12:43.680 made a big spin, found a ton of bear sign 2:12:44.240 --> 2:12:46.080 Luckily I had my bow. I mean, I wasn't even 2:12:46.080 --> 2:12:49.040 gonna bring my bow. And uh, it's all on video. 2:12:49.120 --> 2:12:51.600 It's a YouTube video that YouTube shut down and probably 2:12:51.600 --> 2:12:54.680 have it. It's got like six thousand views right now, 2:12:54.760 --> 2:12:59.280 but they shut it down because of graphic content. Sad story. 2:12:59.600 --> 2:13:03.760 The but so I found all the acrons that year 2:13:03.880 --> 2:13:06.640 was high. So in in our mountains, like mass crop 2:13:06.880 --> 2:13:10.360 varies based upon things that happened in the spring, you know, 2:13:10.480 --> 2:13:13.680 like freezes, different things, so that year, all the acrons 2:13:13.680 --> 2:13:16.320 were up high. I didn't know that. I just was 2:13:16.400 --> 2:13:18.640 going in to scout this area, found a ton of 2:13:18.720 --> 2:13:23.080 bears and uh, kill the bear, packed it out. I 2:13:23.160 --> 2:13:25.640 had an Oklahoma bear tag. So the next day I 2:13:25.720 --> 2:13:29.560 went into Oklahoma, which was just the exact same terrain 2:13:29.640 --> 2:13:33.560 the Washingtons run into Oklahoma and the Ozarks. And I 2:13:33.720 --> 2:13:35.800 was like, well, if they're high in Arkansas, they'll be 2:13:35.920 --> 2:13:38.480 high in Oklahoma. And man, I went up there and 2:13:38.600 --> 2:13:41.400 killed another bear spotting stock on the ground. The next 2:13:41.480 --> 2:13:43.480 morning by ten o'clock. Was that a place you had 2:13:43.520 --> 2:13:46.560 been in before? Not in Oklahoma? The Arkansas place? Was 2:13:46.840 --> 2:13:50.520 the Oklahoma place? Was? I got on what's what's graphic about? 2:13:50.560 --> 2:13:53.640 What's more graphic about that video? Nothing? The human that 2:13:53.840 --> 2:13:57.200 decided it was graphic from YouTube that flagged it. You 2:13:57.240 --> 2:13:59.240 know what it could be as a volume of a 2:13:59.320 --> 2:14:04.720 volume of planes? Yeah, one hundred hours a minute. Man, 2:14:05.160 --> 2:14:08.440 there's a ton of artificial intelligence using that stuff. Yeah, yeah, 2:14:08.560 --> 2:14:12.080 you're right. They shut it down though. It was getting 2:14:12.120 --> 2:14:15.760 fifty thou views a day, and they shut it down, 2:14:15.920 --> 2:14:19.200 and and and since that time, it's gotten like maybe 2:14:19.640 --> 2:14:24.440 fifty views in two years. Yeah, I've found they for 2:14:24.600 --> 2:14:27.280 whatever reason they cherry pick they shut down one. If 2:14:27.320 --> 2:14:29.040 you want, I don't know if you want to give it, 2:14:29.080 --> 2:14:30.440 if you want to pull, We'll put it on our 2:14:30.480 --> 2:14:32.480 website if you want, if people want to come check 2:14:32.520 --> 2:14:37.000 it out. I mean you're saying, like my YouTube video 2:14:37.640 --> 2:14:41.640 or like content. No, we could just like put the video, 2:14:42.880 --> 2:14:44.760 could put it. I mean that doesn't go to YouTube 2:14:44.800 --> 2:14:47.840 if they shut it down, right, Oh, I see, just 2:14:47.960 --> 2:14:54.040 like put it on your website. Yeah, absolutely would be awesome. Man, 2:14:54.160 --> 2:14:57.000 that's see that video to me is the is the 2:14:57.080 --> 2:15:01.000 epitome of of hunting. I mean, the bears were not 2:15:01.120 --> 2:15:03.200 and this again goes back to it's not selective to 2:15:03.240 --> 2:15:05.160 be spotting stocking. I mean both of these bears were. 2:15:05.320 --> 2:15:07.800 They were not large bears. They were just average bears. 2:15:08.160 --> 2:15:11.320 But man, you'd hear me say it if I if 2:15:11.360 --> 2:15:13.040 you watch the video, I shoot this bear out of 2:15:13.040 --> 2:15:15.840 the water. Bear standing in the water, eight yards on 2:15:15.920 --> 2:15:21.400 the ground, just tendering this bear, And I say, I 2:15:21.480 --> 2:15:24.480 would rather kill that bear than a Kodiak brown bear. 2:15:24.800 --> 2:15:27.440 That bear. I did it on my turf. And and 2:15:27.520 --> 2:15:31.000 the thing is is that just nobody's doing that. Yeah, 2:15:31.080 --> 2:15:33.320 how many likes and dislikes they have I don't even know. 2:15:34.560 --> 2:15:35.920 No serious, if you want to put it out just 2:15:36.000 --> 2:15:37.880 the listeners can go see the video, we could like 2:15:38.000 --> 2:15:40.040 host it on it. You're saying it's back on YouTube. 2:15:40.080 --> 2:15:43.960 Now it is on YouTube. It's on YouTube, but you 2:15:44.040 --> 2:15:46.560 have to be eighteen years old or older to watch it. 2:15:46.720 --> 2:15:48.840 And what happens when YouTube flags one of your videos 2:15:48.880 --> 2:15:52.200 as they quit promoting it, so you know the algorithms 2:15:52.520 --> 2:15:55.440 it was getting views, so now they don't prompt anyone. 2:15:55.600 --> 2:15:57.760 If you like this, you'll okay, and like, yeah, we 2:15:57.880 --> 2:15:59.520 just have the link up that like if if you're 2:16:00.040 --> 2:16:03.160 but if someone under eighteen or a someone tried to 2:16:03.200 --> 2:16:05.320 watch the video and they weren't logged in the YouTube, 2:16:05.320 --> 2:16:08.560 they couldn't watch it, got it because the YouTube has 2:16:08.640 --> 2:16:10.880 to know, oh this person's over eighteen, so you actually 2:16:10.920 --> 2:16:13.240 have to have an account, like if you logged on 2:16:13.320 --> 2:16:18.160 and tried to watch it right now? Uh? Are things 2:16:18.200 --> 2:16:20.400 heating up? First? Light? Heating up is the time of 2:16:20.440 --> 2:16:22.520 year when people start buying a bunch of stuff. It's crazy. 2:16:22.520 --> 2:16:25.680 It just like when fourth of July, I think people 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:28.360 are like to shoot the fireworks off. Then like what's next? 2:16:28.400 --> 2:16:30.960 The like, oh, ELX season's almost here, It's the same 2:16:31.000 --> 2:16:32.879 thing with archery shops. I talked to my friend John, 2:16:32.920 --> 2:16:35.160 who runs archery shop in Eastern Oregon's like, man, it 2:16:35.320 --> 2:16:37.800 is nuts in here right now, all the way until, 2:16:37.840 --> 2:16:41.000 like August said, people will come in as we speak. 2:16:42.480 --> 2:16:46.400 Our guy, Joe Ferrigno is Joe Farron attles cutting my 2:16:46.520 --> 2:16:48.760 arrows down right now. Man, I just got a couple 2:16:48.760 --> 2:16:51.560 of built myself. I'm excited. But yeah, things are heating up, 2:16:51.600 --> 2:16:54.440 Like people are coming coming, sniffing around looking at gear. Yeah. Yeah, 2:16:54.440 --> 2:16:56.480 we have more people swinging by the office. Is this 2:16:56.560 --> 2:17:01.000 the show room, no, sir, Yeah yeah, oh yeah. They 2:17:01.040 --> 2:17:03.160 want to come in to buy stuff. Yeah, we send 2:17:03.200 --> 2:17:05.320 them to the interwebs. Though, do you guys sell, um, 2:17:06.720 --> 2:17:09.560 you guys sell a lot more like mountain stuff before 2:17:09.600 --> 2:17:11.280 you start selling the white tail stuff, Like, do white 2:17:11.280 --> 2:17:12.880 tail dudes wait a little bit longer? I don't know, 2:17:12.959 --> 2:17:14.880 you know, I think the most guys that are getting 2:17:14.879 --> 2:17:16.520 geared up right now are kind of getting geared up 2:17:16.560 --> 2:17:19.360 four in November already, they're starting to starting to get ready. 2:17:19.440 --> 2:17:22.240 But um, I think the majority of the purchases right 2:17:22.240 --> 2:17:24.320 now are from our two thousand nineteen line that just 2:17:24.400 --> 2:17:27.520 kind of get came out, So most of that stuff 2:17:27.560 --> 2:17:30.760 has hit the website as of Yeah, it's about a 2:17:30.760 --> 2:17:33.200 week and a half ago. What's the hottest selling item, Man, 2:17:33.240 --> 2:17:35.280 that's a good question. Probably brooks Down sweater. That's a 2:17:35.360 --> 2:17:38.160 great one this year. Um, the Sawbucks that thing along. 2:17:38.840 --> 2:17:41.720 You've tried those sawbucks hunt? Yeah, but tell you what, 2:17:43.360 --> 2:17:46.680 I was wearing them hunting down in Old Mexico and 2:17:46.760 --> 2:17:51.800 I was greasing through that like man, everybody else's like, yeah, 2:17:52.720 --> 2:17:54.800 cat Colm, me squite all that stuff. I got a 2:17:54.840 --> 2:17:56.440 feeling that's gonna be I got a feeling like after 2:17:56.520 --> 2:17:58.520 we went down we go down there. We've been on 2:17:58.560 --> 2:18:00.680 it quite a few times. Go down there January hunt 2:18:00.680 --> 2:18:03.880 COO's dere in the desert, and um, I got a 2:18:03.920 --> 2:18:06.440 feeling that there's gonna be a lot more those pants 2:18:06.480 --> 2:18:10.600 on the ground come this January than we're last. Dude, 2:18:10.600 --> 2:18:12.760 my legs are the only ones not ripped up. Yeah. There, 2:18:12.840 --> 2:18:14.520 that's an incredible pair of pants. The best part is 2:18:14.520 --> 2:18:16.240 it's not like a thick canvas pant where you can 2:18:16.240 --> 2:18:18.560 actually eat their breathable for the hotwell, I lived it 2:18:18.760 --> 2:18:21.080 every morning. I just pulled all the Southern listeners. Guys 2:18:21.120 --> 2:18:24.200 are talking about briar bridges. Yeah about this today, that's awesome. 2:18:24.320 --> 2:18:28.119 Should have called him that briar bridges, briar pants brush pants. 2:18:28.400 --> 2:18:30.760 But no, things are things are getting pretty heated up 2:18:30.959 --> 2:18:33.640 at first. People are getting excited. Yeah, yeah, we're coming 2:18:33.720 --> 2:18:36.440 up on it. Antelope season starts in August. I think 2:18:36.600 --> 2:18:40.960 you guys all hunt animal withoutree equipment? Yeah you guys, Yeah, 2:18:41.320 --> 2:18:44.080 guys over here, that's right. It should be fun. I've 2:18:44.080 --> 2:18:47.520 actually never killed aniop with the bow. So so who's 2:18:47.560 --> 2:18:50.560 buy our the sawbuck pants? Is it? Like? Um, a 2:18:50.600 --> 2:18:53.400 lot of bird hunters are big game. I mean they're 2:18:53.440 --> 2:18:56.160 built for for for the bird hunter, chucker hunters and 2:18:56.320 --> 2:18:59.480 and folks like that. But um, actually a lot of 2:18:59.480 --> 2:19:01.160 folks in tech to start buying him. I was wearing 2:19:01.240 --> 2:19:03.440 them squirrel hunting Missouri. Sweet. It's like it's sick of 2:19:03.480 --> 2:19:06.800 getting scratched up by the brush. Yeah. Ye, eliminates the 2:19:06.840 --> 2:19:08.520 need for a gator on the bottom when it's hot. 2:19:08.920 --> 2:19:10.520 I was crawling out of the river the air day 2:19:10.640 --> 2:19:12.760 with U, and I didn't want my little boy to 2:19:12.800 --> 2:19:15.720 climb through the rolls, bushes and thistles, so I picked 2:19:15.800 --> 2:19:17.720 him up over my shoulder and climbed up through there. 2:19:18.680 --> 2:19:21.920 Gash my legs all up. I had my shorty pants 2:19:21.959 --> 2:19:25.920 on because we're coming out of crayfishing. Oh nice, Yeah, 2:19:26.800 --> 2:19:30.720 you need to make those shorts just have a big 2:19:30.760 --> 2:19:34.560 gap in the thigh right there. All right? Man? Yeah, 2:19:34.560 --> 2:19:36.879 any what do you got anything final thoughts? I do, Man, 2:19:37.040 --> 2:19:39.480 we net We need to finish up on the barrel oil. 2:19:41.000 --> 2:19:44.880 Why does it say okay barrel oil. It's only a right, 2:19:44.959 --> 2:19:48.360 it's only so good. That's okay. Well that's uh, that 2:19:48.640 --> 2:19:52.360 isn't oklaholm for Oklahoma. Yeah, so I brought I brought 2:19:52.400 --> 2:19:55.720 you guys some barrelil, Johnnie and Steve, and this is 2:19:55.879 --> 2:19:59.840 this is Oklahoma barrel oil. Well okay, so I did 2:19:59.879 --> 2:20:03.280 it test on how to render fat, whether there was 2:20:03.280 --> 2:20:06.040 any difference in rendering it slow or rendering it slow 2:20:06.280 --> 2:20:10.320 and low? This is this is not viscous, not at all. 2:20:10.920 --> 2:20:13.760 That was gonna be my question to you after I 2:20:13.879 --> 2:20:16.880 tell you a few things about this. Um. So, I 2:20:16.920 --> 2:20:19.840 brought you this barre oil to use it your pleasure. 2:20:20.440 --> 2:20:26.000 But this is a testament to black bear conservation because 2:20:26.040 --> 2:20:29.280 black bears were brought into Arkansas. It's considered the most 2:20:29.320 --> 2:20:32.440 successful reintroduction to large carnivores in the world's reintroduction of 2:20:32.520 --> 2:20:37.600 bears into Arkansas. And these Oklahoma bears are bears that 2:20:37.680 --> 2:20:40.840 have infiltrated into Oklahoma from Arkansas and now have a 2:20:40.920 --> 2:20:44.400 huntable population and are thriving. That was a fifty pound 2:20:44.440 --> 2:20:49.880 Oklahoma black bear. Yes, sir, yes, sir, Oklahoma head on 2:20:50.000 --> 2:20:52.640 him to bet you well, I'm one of the few 2:20:52.720 --> 2:20:56.080 people on the planet besides they, of course holding a 2:20:56.680 --> 2:21:00.160 bottle of Oklahoma barre oil right now. Well, hey, not 2:21:00.320 --> 2:21:03.000 only do you get that, but I'm gonna give you this, 2:21:03.360 --> 2:21:10.480 uh bear grease weather chart that you can use. It's 2:21:10.520 --> 2:21:12.880 in a magazine. What magazine is that? Okay? Yeah? This 2:21:13.080 --> 2:21:16.120 this is Bear Hunting magazine. And we wrote an article 2:21:16.360 --> 2:21:18.320 this like are we published an article we didn't write 2:21:18.320 --> 2:21:21.200 it about an old guy in New Mexico named Gordon Websad. 2:21:21.280 --> 2:21:26.959 He died in Gordon Websitt was nationally known for sixty 2:21:27.160 --> 2:21:34.640 years of watching and forecasting weather based upon bar oil forecasting. 2:21:34.760 --> 2:21:40.000 Absolutely he could forecast weather with a high degree of success, 2:21:40.160 --> 2:21:44.160 says this article. And this is his personal chart. And 2:21:44.280 --> 2:21:48.640 so this this chart shows, I mean, you know, one 2:21:48.920 --> 2:21:51.520 if the barrel oil looks like that, then you go 2:21:51.800 --> 2:21:56.000 heavy and bottom no changes for several hours. Clear. Number two, 2:21:56.240 --> 2:21:59.240 there's a slight bulge in so barre oil for people 2:21:59.280 --> 2:22:01.760 who wouldn't know it watching the bear matric pressure. Ye, 2:22:02.280 --> 2:22:08.640 well he you you got to read this article earthquakes 2:22:09.920 --> 2:22:13.760 with this, I mean does it? I mean I like it. 2:22:14.280 --> 2:22:16.800 I believe that he believed it right, But it doesn't 2:22:16.800 --> 2:22:20.160 bother you that I'm not buying it. I'm with you, okay, 2:22:20.520 --> 2:22:25.359 But it's just it's thrilled. I'll yeah, it's just eccentric. 2:22:25.480 --> 2:22:28.800 It's just cool. I love stuff with bear grace. It's 2:22:28.840 --> 2:22:30.760 a cool. It's a cool article about that old guy 2:22:30.840 --> 2:22:34.200 Gordon whims that my fridge is gonna set up like 2:22:34.240 --> 2:22:37.760 a rock. Yeah. Well my question is, how do you 2:22:37.840 --> 2:22:41.280 render fat? That's clear because I have rendered bear fat, Steve, 2:22:41.400 --> 2:22:45.240 that was totally clear. Well, once it gets warm, it's clear. Wow. 2:22:46.840 --> 2:22:51.760 I mean it's like piss colored. Yeah, but somebody told 2:22:51.800 --> 2:22:53.240 me that has to do with what the bear eight 2:22:53.360 --> 2:22:57.280 and actually like the the chemical makeup and well yeah, 2:22:57.320 --> 2:22:59.760 you know, like when you get like, uh, you know 2:23:00.000 --> 2:23:02.080 sometimes just like you know, I've seen it on on 2:23:02.360 --> 2:23:04.600 when I killed a buffalo that was in a certain 2:23:04.640 --> 2:23:07.720 area there's a lot of caroteen and he had orange 2:23:07.879 --> 2:23:12.960 like orange, like a damn orange orange fat. But uh, 2:23:13.200 --> 2:23:15.520 that doesn't surprise me that the I know. I know 2:23:15.600 --> 2:23:19.400 because I have people with contested but it's true feeding 2:23:19.440 --> 2:23:21.640 on when they're feeding on blueberries, the fat takes on 2:23:21.720 --> 2:23:26.120 a tint from that coloration. Well, just my question is, 2:23:26.160 --> 2:23:28.280 and what I was trying to decide by doing different 2:23:28.320 --> 2:23:30.840 temperatures is I have rendered it before when it was 2:23:30.920 --> 2:23:33.000 almost clear all the time, like if you can put 2:23:33.000 --> 2:23:34.920 in refrigerator, it would have solidified up, but it looked 2:23:34.959 --> 2:23:38.760 like olive oil. Yeah, well even look at put it 2:23:38.760 --> 2:23:41.040 in your fridge, it was clear. Yeah, even after that, 2:23:41.200 --> 2:23:44.240 I don't know that was possible. Right, not long ago. 2:23:45.080 --> 2:23:49.880 There's a whale fat Mark Tuck skin and the fat 2:23:49.920 --> 2:23:51.400 I don't know that's Mark Tuck or not. I think 2:23:51.480 --> 2:23:53.400 part of the skin. I don't know. Either way, we're 2:23:53.400 --> 2:23:58.240 eating some whale fat. That was interesting, pretty good. Uh, 2:24:00.120 --> 2:24:02.959 good looking magazine, So you're good. Bear tell us again, 2:24:03.280 --> 2:24:07.720 Bear Hunting, Yeah, Bear Hunting magazine. Yeah, we've been in 2:24:07.760 --> 2:24:10.320 print for twenty years. I've had the business the last 2:24:10.360 --> 2:24:16.920 six years. But we're making a yep, that's us print 2:24:17.040 --> 2:24:20.600 magazine six times a year. Read all about bear grease. Yeah, 2:24:20.680 --> 2:24:23.960 the editor's note and this one is titled guard the Gate. 2:24:24.240 --> 2:24:27.840 That would be a good one. Uh, you got any 2:24:27.840 --> 2:24:32.120 concluding thoughts? Kevin for Antelope season comes. Get those Guidelight pants. 2:24:32.320 --> 2:24:35.320 They're sweet. That was a good one coming out. Are 2:24:35.400 --> 2:24:37.680 there out right now on the website. It's gonna be hot. 2:24:38.800 --> 2:24:41.160 And man, when you get those, get yourself a Marino 2:24:41.400 --> 2:24:43.960 T shirt. What's the light one called the Wicks, the 2:24:44.040 --> 2:24:47.320 New Wicks. Yeah, I've keep mean to do it. I'm 2:24:47.360 --> 2:24:49.440 gonna do it next time I climb up Baldy. We've 2:24:49.480 --> 2:24:51.600 been going up Baldly every Thursday, and I wear my 2:24:51.680 --> 2:24:54.600 Wicks T shirt and everybody else is wearing like a 2:24:54.680 --> 2:24:57.640 T shirt plus another layer. And I started off just 2:24:58.160 --> 2:25:01.000 the hair chili, which is always you should start a mountain. 2:25:03.040 --> 2:25:07.959 But that T shirt makes it through the whole experience. 2:25:08.000 --> 2:25:10.080 Starting at fifty degrees or so, and by the time 2:25:10.120 --> 2:25:13.080 we get down it's probably well into seventy and we're 2:25:13.160 --> 2:25:16.160 running and it's hot, and that T shirt just it 2:25:16.280 --> 2:25:20.040 spans that whole you know, variants and temperatures and you 2:25:20.120 --> 2:25:23.640 get up top on Baldi and the winds howling, even sweating, 2:25:23.840 --> 2:25:25.560 and it's trying to blow through you, but it dries 2:25:25.600 --> 2:25:28.160 out and it still keeps you warm. I feel like 2:25:28.200 --> 2:25:30.680 everybody should have that is their basic as their first 2:25:31.120 --> 2:25:36.879 you know, piece on their skin. Thank you, My concluder 2:25:36.959 --> 2:25:39.160 is I think now that these these guys pointed out 2:25:39.200 --> 2:25:40.760 a little problem. I think you ought to work up 2:25:40.760 --> 2:25:43.880 a price on that hog. I'll see what I can 2:25:43.920 --> 2:25:49.080 do by eight. So I'm gonna roll back over there 2:25:49.120 --> 2:25:51.600 and i'll drop it off. It's gonna get it cutting wrapped, 2:25:51.800 --> 2:25:55.760 cutting wrapped like a pro. I'm gonna be generous with it. Yeah, 2:25:56.040 --> 2:25:59.520 I'm keeping all the fat for myself. Yeah, yeah, that's 2:25:59.520 --> 2:26:02.800 a good, good plan. Well, I'll give Yanni a little fat. Yeah, 2:26:04.000 --> 2:26:06.360 the whole jar right now? If I just buy my half, 2:26:06.400 --> 2:26:09.520 can we just split it and share it? Oh? Has 2:26:09.560 --> 2:26:13.920 he's straight up right now. I'll shake on it. I 2:26:13.920 --> 2:26:17.720 get the left half, we'll bulk up that left side 2:26:17.760 --> 2:26:21.240 for it. Alright, Clay, you got your final thoughts. Man, 2:26:21.320 --> 2:26:24.800 I've I've said enough. I appreciate you having me on truly. 2:26:24.840 --> 2:26:27.959 Do you do a good job? Thank you? Yeah, thanks, 2:26:28.040 --> 2:26:31.320 thanks for opening. It's been great. This is really sweet. 2:26:31.680 --> 2:26:35.520 Go give his video films up. Yeah. Man, maybe maybe 2:26:35.560 --> 2:26:38.080 if everybody works really hard, we could tip it back 2:26:38.120 --> 2:26:41.119 over the other direction. Would help. Great. What's it called? 2:26:41.720 --> 2:26:44.080 I think the title I mean they need to check 2:26:44.120 --> 2:26:48.640 out the like Clay new Comb bear hunt. Well, I 2:26:48.760 --> 2:26:52.560 think it's called bear bumps into traditional Archer's arrow, like 2:26:52.680 --> 2:26:55.600 we we tried to describe in the title. But if 2:26:55.640 --> 2:26:57.760 you just go to the Bear Honting Magazine YouTube channel 2:26:58.360 --> 2:27:00.880 and hit popular, like there's a tab up there that's 2:27:00.920 --> 2:27:03.240 some of the most popular videos, you'll see three or 2:27:03.240 --> 2:27:06.240 four come up and it'll it'll be there. Yeah, but 2:27:06.400 --> 2:27:08.840 I'm more proud of the squirrel hunt on mule videos 2:27:08.920 --> 2:27:10.720 and stuff like that than that. That's a good one. 2:27:10.760 --> 2:27:13.160 Everybody should watch that one too. Steve and I both 2:27:13.240 --> 2:27:17.240 enjoyed that one. All right, man, thanks for coming on. Hey, 2:27:17.640 --> 2:27:19.680 my pleasure. Thank you appreciate it.