Speaker 1: So I think it's three o'clocks. You are ready when
Speaker 1: I'm done getting this eyelash. Yeah, it's precisely three o'clock
Speaker 1: according to my phone, exactly. I guess we're gonna get
Speaker 1: rolling here, right. So first off, actually, before you go,
Speaker 1: sorry to rock, is there anybody here from Indiana High Phones?
Speaker 1: Uh So, we're going to do an Indiana mystory that
Speaker 1: Joe's already told people about. I haven't told you though,
Speaker 1: That's the important thing. Uh So, we are doing this
Speaker 1: as a live taping. So we're going to do our
Speaker 1: normal intro, and you guys can make as much or
Speaker 1: as little noise as you want. He's ready, Okay, Thinking Sideways,
Speaker 1: I'll look at that. I don't know stories of things.
Speaker 1: We simply don't know of the answa too. Hey there,
Speaker 1: welcome to a very special episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Devin, joined as usual by Steve and Joe,
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about a mystery. And we're
Speaker 1: joined us, so I should say by a live studio audience. Guys,
Speaker 1: say hi, it's a group of very loud five loud. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's do that again. I say hi ya whatever, It's
Speaker 1: cool that was a good round of applause. Appreciate that.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a mystery. It's a local mystery.
Speaker 1: Well it's well, it took place in Indiana, so it's
Speaker 1: local Brown County. Anybody here from Brown County? Good? Okay,
Speaker 1: kind of south to here. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the case of Clarence Roberts's death. Is anybody familiar with
Speaker 1: that case? The death of Clarence Roberts. You guys haven't
Speaker 1: heard about Clarence treat Joe. Why don't you tell them
Speaker 1: a little bit about Clarence Roppers. Let me give you
Speaker 1: it says Joe Shatner style, my shatting. Your invitation kind
Speaker 1: of sucks, So I'm just gonna read it. Uh. So
Speaker 1: earlier the hours of October v a shed uh which
Speaker 1: is being used as a garage on the Robert's property
Speaker 1: in Brown County caught fire uh and volunteer firefighters came
Speaker 1: by and tried to put it out. They haven't yet, no,
Speaker 1: not yet, not in this not around here. But the
Speaker 1: only thing they were able to say was the Clarence's
Speaker 1: pickup truck. He had a pickup truck parked down there.
Speaker 1: They wheeled that out and saved it, but didn't say
Speaker 1: Clarence who perished in the fire along with two other cars.
Speaker 1: But then the next day, after things are cooled down
Speaker 1: a little bit, they were coming through the ashes and
Speaker 1: they found an interesting surprise which was a burned limbless
Speaker 1: body of a man apparently Clarence Roberts. And the body
Speaker 1: was laying on his back, had a ship that sixteen
Speaker 1: gage shotgun laying across its chest. Um. But investigators were
Speaker 1: also stiffing through the ash and they found a Masonic
Speaker 1: ring buried in the ash not far from the body,
Speaker 1: completely undamaged, not completely, but pretty much undamaged. And Claire
Speaker 1: and of course was a Mason. He was like a
Speaker 1: thirty three d gird degree like talk to our experts
Speaker 1: about this, Yeah, but it was. It was in pretty
Speaker 1: good shape for having been through a fire. Clarence Roberts
Speaker 1: was a local businessman. Uh. He and his brother owned
Speaker 1: a small local chain of hardware feed stores called, I
Speaker 1: think the Roberts Lumber Company, so obviously sold little rumber
Speaker 1: Lumber two. They were pretty well to do. They had
Speaker 1: four children, all boys, and you know, a nice house
Speaker 1: and a lot of nice luxury cars and also Clarence
Speaker 1: had several life insurance policies, which was lucky for his
Speaker 1: family that he died. And so it's time to collect
Speaker 1: the life insurance right and this is like, you know,
Speaker 1: valued at like more than a million bucks. This is
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, so like six million now, yeah, in a
Speaker 1: billion or something like that. So all they had to
Speaker 1: do was collect that money. But there was a hitch,
Speaker 1: There was a fly in the ointment. Yeah, they didn't
Speaker 1: didn't quite get that. So tragedy would hit the family
Speaker 1: again ten years later when another fire would destroy a
Speaker 1: shock that was wasn't owned by the Roberts family. I
Speaker 1: was down in Camp Roberts. Anybody here heard about Camp Roberts,
Speaker 1: southeast about three miles southeast of Nashville, Indiana, a little
Speaker 1: place that's mostly owned by the Roberts family apparently, and
Speaker 1: as the family and if the shack was owned by
Speaker 1: her nephew, I knew somebody in the family owned. She
Speaker 1: was staying there rent for you. So robertson sho another
Speaker 1: Robert another one burns down. This time, however, there are
Speaker 1: two bodies. Well that was loud. Uh. The first body
Speaker 1: was identified as Geneva Roberts Clarence's wife, and the second
Speaker 1: body was identified as that of Clarence Roberts. Don. Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: I didn't know we had we had service up here.
Speaker 1: This is awesome. And use their water instead of my water. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, good. You guys wanted an unedited show, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: we're asking us all the time, so this is what
Speaker 1: you get. Um. So, as we said, they you know,
Speaker 1: this this life insurance policy they had tried to collect
Speaker 1: the family had, but the insurance company had decided that
Speaker 1: there were some things wrong that made them not believe
Speaker 1: that it was gonna be Claire actually be Clarence's body,
Speaker 1: So Geneva didn't get any of the money, so she
Speaker 1: was left essentially penniless at that point. Uh, they you know,
Speaker 1: had to sell the family home. The cars were repossessed
Speaker 1: or I think the brothers that owned them actually took
Speaker 1: them back for some of those cars and one of
Speaker 1: them was taken back by his creditors. I talked to
Speaker 1: a lawyer who knew the knew the Roberts and there
Speaker 1: was he told me this story about they were in
Speaker 1: court and Clarence was being confronted by one of his
Speaker 1: creditors and the creditors. Lawyer says, Clarence, how did you
Speaker 1: get here today? And Clarence said, I drove And the
Speaker 1: lawyer turned to the judge and said, your honor, we
Speaker 1: want that car. And so the judge made Clarence hand
Speaker 1: over the keys to his Cadillac right there in court.
Speaker 1: That's how That's how deep in Clarence was living beyond
Speaker 1: his means, way beyond his means, and Uber wasn't a
Speaker 1: thing yet. Yeah, and home was not fun humiliating moment
Speaker 1: for poor Clarence Roberts. Yes, well, and especially for Geneva
Speaker 1: because she and the family have been trying to collect
Speaker 1: on the insurance for now ten years and hadn't got
Speaker 1: it um. So at this point she has to take
Speaker 1: a job. She is working at the Howard Johnson's. I
Speaker 1: believe she's working in the kitchen, washing dishes, are baking pies.
Speaker 1: I've heard that story too. Okay, Her her children abandoned her,
Speaker 1: the entire family shunned her. So she was on her
Speaker 1: own at that point. So we're going to play this
Speaker 1: one a little fast and loose, uh, And we're going
Speaker 1: to try to add to the story as we talk
Speaker 1: about theories that doesn't mean, we're going to mix stuff up,
Speaker 1: but maybe we wouldn't do that. Uh So, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm hosting, so we've got some bullet
Speaker 1: points here. I'm gonna go ahead and just talk about
Speaker 1: the high level of what the theories might be, and
Speaker 1: then we're going to get into it. Sound good, sounds good.
Speaker 1: So we need to talk about Clarence. We need to
Speaker 1: talk about if he died in the first fire or
Speaker 1: the second fire. There are people out there, by the
Speaker 1: way who still believed Clarence did die in the first fire.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about Clarence and if he set
Speaker 1: the first fire or the second fire or neither or both.
Speaker 1: And we need to talk about if he didn't die
Speaker 1: in the first fire, where did he go? And then
Speaker 1: we need to talk about Geneva because it seems like
Speaker 1: she should have known about this, right you would think,
Speaker 1: but maybe not. So let's talk about this sweet first
Speaker 1: theory would be Clarence died in the first fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this does not have a lot of subscribers. Well, there's
Speaker 1: there's a really, really good reason. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we had talked about the fact that when the body
Speaker 1: was found, we had said that you know, there was
Speaker 1: no limbs. It's believed that those were burned off. I know,
Speaker 1: Joe through your conversations with was it the prosecutor? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta I was. Actually was lucky enough to track
Speaker 1: down a guy named James T. Roberts. He says he's
Speaker 1: no relation to Clarence, but he was. He was the
Speaker 1: county prosecutor and I've seen seventy when this happened. He
Speaker 1: told me. There's stories on the internet that somebody actually
Speaker 1: chopped off the arms and legs from the body and
Speaker 1: then put it in the barn and set the fire.
Speaker 1: But you will see where it says there's like woo
Speaker 1: or marks on the bones. Apparently, apparently that's not true,
Speaker 1: according to somebody who was there. And he claims to
Speaker 1: know everything there is to know about this case. Well,
Speaker 1: he was the prosecutor. Yeah, he should know everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the thing about the body is, yeah, it's got
Speaker 1: no arms and legs, so theoretically the fire is so
Speaker 1: intense that it would have burned them off. There was
Speaker 1: also talk of a shotgun being found near the body,
Speaker 1: so it's believed Okay, he set the fire maybe, but
Speaker 1: he also must have tried to commit suicide by using
Speaker 1: the weapon on himself. But there was a problem. There
Speaker 1: was no gunshot wound in the body. There's an issue.
Speaker 1: Come on, dude, that corner Yeah yeah, yeah, so uh,
Speaker 1: I guess I really just don't understand even how it
Speaker 1: plays out that he died in the first fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you would have to say that is Clarence
Speaker 1: back to the truck up into the barn, lights the
Speaker 1: barn on fire with the attempt of then he's gonna
Speaker 1: use the gun on himself. I mean this, this whole
Speaker 1: series of events. Did that make any sense to anybody else,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't to me. And the right it was undamaged.
Speaker 1: If the fire was hot enough to burn his limbs off,
Speaker 1: that was a ring on the finger should be damaged. Right.
Speaker 1: And then the corner actually did an autopsy, believe it
Speaker 1: or not, and they found out that the body had
Speaker 1: a huge level of or not CEO carbon monoxide and
Speaker 1: in the bloodstream enough to be fatal. Uh. And yet
Speaker 1: no evidence of inn a smoke innolation at all, as
Speaker 1: long as we're all clean and pink. So that was
Speaker 1: a little bit suspicious. M hmm. Let's see what else
Speaker 1: flood type there was a blood type, Yeah, I did it.
Speaker 1: That didn't match. And then they found one tooth and
Speaker 1: that didn't really match Clarence either. It was also, wasn't
Speaker 1: it missing a kidney? Or I heard that in one place.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to totally swear by that one. I
Speaker 1: supposedly the body was missing a kidney and Clarence had
Speaker 1: both his kidneys. Yeah. Yeah, So if it wasn't Clarence's
Speaker 1: body dead in the barn, yeah, do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about the vagrant? I can talk about the vagrant,
Speaker 1: talk about the talking about vagrance all the time. So
Speaker 1: there was there. There's two versions of this story. But
Speaker 1: it is said that Clarence met a vagrant, uh town away, right, Joe.
Speaker 1: It was not. It was not actually in the town
Speaker 1: he lived out. Clarence would not be that dumb. He
Speaker 1: was still dumb, but he didn't quite Okay, So there
Speaker 1: is a vagrant, and either Clarence met him in a
Speaker 1: bar and poured so much liquor into him that that
Speaker 1: when they walked out, the guy started falling down and
Speaker 1: Clarence said, I'm going to take him to get help.
Speaker 1: Or the other version of the story is that Clarence
Speaker 1: met this vagrant. He collapsed on the street, having some
Speaker 1: sort of medical condition, and Clarence says, I'll get my car,
Speaker 1: I'll take him to a doctor. There's no record of
Speaker 1: Clarence ever showing up in front of any doctor with
Speaker 1: this man. So there's there's the big red first Bred
Speaker 1: flag about the vagrant. The vagrant, also, by the way, was,
Speaker 1: according to witness, has had a brown plaid shirt on.
Speaker 1: And then it turns out that the why is the
Speaker 1: brown shirt important? The brown shirts important? Why is that important?
Speaker 1: Why is that? Well? I will tell you why the
Speaker 1: body was even though it was badly burned, it was
Speaker 1: laying against the laying against the pavement and or the dirt.
Speaker 1: I don't actually don't know. Was that a dirt floor
Speaker 1: they paid floor, I don't care. We'll just assume it
Speaker 1: was something or the other. But yeah, apparently you got
Speaker 1: enough heat protection that a fragment of the shirt actually
Speaker 1: survived the fire. Turns out it was brown plaid. Clarence's
Speaker 1: cousin that stopped by to visit him, like about fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes before the fire actually broke out, and he said
Speaker 1: that Clarence was wearing a blue shirt, not a brown
Speaker 1: plaid shirt. So well that that looked a little funny
Speaker 1: to the authorities and so people, even though Clarence's family
Speaker 1: was swearing and actually one pathologist was pretty sure it
Speaker 1: was Clarence also, but that that maybe seems really wrong.
Speaker 1: Well it does, because I mean, after all, I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you gas yourself and then start a fire?
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you do that? Exactly? I don't know,
Speaker 1: because he should have because the body should have sucumbed
Speaker 1: totally to innate smoke, innilation or excuse me, c O
Speaker 1: two carbon monoxide. You know, people are making me new
Speaker 1: or just close your eyes. Everybody looked that way. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're pretty sure that Clarence did not die in
Speaker 1: that first fire, right, Yeah, everybody's pretty sure except for
Speaker 1: a few people. Like I said, his sons, uh still contend,
Speaker 1: at least most of his sons and his family. They
Speaker 1: have a grave actually, I think with the original corpse
Speaker 1: buried in it and marked with marked Clarence Roberts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well there's six million dollars lighter since it wasn't, well
Speaker 1: not lighter. But you know they're not okay, they're not.
Speaker 1: They're not six million dollars heavier. They would have preferred.
Speaker 1: Do you think Geneva knew that it wasn't Clarence. You know,
Speaker 1: I think she was in on it from the beginning.
Speaker 1: You know, I was kind of thinking it was Geneva,
Speaker 1: although when I talked to James Roberts about it again,
Speaker 1: he was the one, more than me and more than
Speaker 1: the Internet who actually knew these two. Uh, and he's
Speaker 1: she was actually very sure that Geneva was not involved
Speaker 1: in any of this scheme because at least in the beginning,
Speaker 1: at some point, of course, it appears that Clarence did
Speaker 1: come back to town. He he actually abscounted with a
Speaker 1: paramount of cash, and uh, some point he must have
Speaker 1: run out of money, is the thinking, and he came
Speaker 1: back to Geneva, she let she took him back in.
Speaker 1: And at that point, of course, she becomes complicit because
Speaker 1: I didn't mention that there was a grand jury in
Speaker 1: that indicted Clarence on charges of kidnapping and murder for
Speaker 1: the murder of this vagrant, and so he wasn't wanted man.
Speaker 1: Police were actually local police were looking for They were
Speaker 1: staking out Geneva's home from time to time. So at
Speaker 1: that point she became complicit. But he's very sure that
Speaker 1: she was not actually part of the conspiracy, So Clarence
Speaker 1: would have then placed the ring himself. Probably Clarence put
Speaker 1: it in there himself, came back after the fire was
Speaker 1: done and after the volunteer firefighters left for the night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's Clarence may not have been as smart
Speaker 1: as he thought he was. Maybe. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that that screwed Clarence up is that he had
Speaker 1: a pickup truck, as I mentioned that the firefighters saved,
Speaker 1: and he rigged it up as kind of a rolling
Speaker 1: gas chamber. He plugged the fire of the tailpipe, and
Speaker 1: he had taken what appeared to be a hammer and
Speaker 1: a punch and punched a bunch of holes in the tailpipe,
Speaker 1: and the firefighters saved the truck from the fire. It
Speaker 1: was actually inside there. It should have been consumed by
Speaker 1: the fire, but these fire firefighters show up and they
Speaker 1: roll the truck out of there and save it. Later on,
Speaker 1: somebody discovered that a lot of a lot of carbon
Speaker 1: monoxide was leaking into the cab of the truck. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so that's when they looked at the tailpipe and
Speaker 1: discovered it had been punctured all over the place. I
Speaker 1: think Clarence probably intended for the truck to be consumed
Speaker 1: in the flames of the fire, but that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: So you gotta ask yourself, what do you Why do
Speaker 1: you have a little rolling gas chamber. He didn't need
Speaker 1: it to gas himself inside a closed garage, obviously, Why
Speaker 1: do you have something like that, like gas vagrant? Maybe, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm thinking. That's some other people
Speaker 1: are thinking about. It's kind of funny that the volunteer
Speaker 1: firefighters screwed up his plan because obviously, yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: that's pretty hilarious actually when he's okay. So that's theory
Speaker 1: number one done. Theory number two would be Clarence set
Speaker 1: and died in the second fire with Geneva Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: the the story here, right is that a few years
Speaker 1: after Geneva moved into the shock, neighbors started talking about
Speaker 1: a strange man a lurking around Um and Geneva, who
Speaker 1: was diabetic and did not drink though she wasn't supposed
Speaker 1: to drink. Well, she didn't, but then you know, her
Speaker 1: husband died or ran off or something, and she had
Speaker 1: a good reason, had some good reasons to but she
Speaker 1: was reportedly purchasing a lot of beer and liquor and
Speaker 1: bringing it back to the house. Um, so it's possible that,
Speaker 1: you know, Clarence, as mentioned, came back and that was
Speaker 1: Clarence that was lurking about. Um right, yeah, But the
Speaker 1: important thing to know about the lurker is nobody could
Speaker 1: say that was Clarence because this guy he had a
Speaker 1: really really good habit of knowing when somebody was looking
Speaker 1: at him. Just one of those people you know you
Speaker 1: get the hairs on the back of your your next
Speaker 1: stand up. Apparently he had spiky sense, super good, and
Speaker 1: so somebody would be there and he would immediately he'd
Speaker 1: realize you were there. He would turn and start walking away.
Speaker 1: So if they were on one side of the house,
Speaker 1: he would put himself on the other side of the building.
Speaker 1: So nobody ever really got a good view of him.
Speaker 1: They never could say he was pretty distinctive looking. Clarence
Speaker 1: is actually not a bad looking guy. That's not Clarence.
Speaker 1: Who's that? That's Clarence. Okay, there you go. A thought
Speaker 1: Clarence had darker hair. He was Okay, so his hair
Speaker 1: kind of went gray, alright, that happens, of course, I
Speaker 1: could have been some guy with of facial deformity he
Speaker 1: was shy about it, or maybe some agoraphobia. It wasn't.
Speaker 1: The police were sticking out Geneva's house. Apparently this is
Speaker 1: a huge story in Brown County. I think people swung
Speaker 1: by just to just to check on Geneva themselves, just
Speaker 1: to laugh at her some yeah, just to see check
Speaker 1: out the rumors, see if they spotted clearance in the
Speaker 1: front yard or something like that. So Geneva wind up
Speaker 1: nailing her front door shut, So she came and went
Speaker 1: by the back door just to avoid people look watching her. Uh,
Speaker 1: and which proved to be kind of maybe sort of
Speaker 1: fatal for her in the end, because you know, they
Speaker 1: had that second fire, they did, and they couldn't escape
Speaker 1: by the front door. Yeah, it's the problem with nailing
Speaker 1: things shut. The kind of is get back out. So
Speaker 1: again the question though, is who set that second fire. Well,
Speaker 1: we really somebody did, apparently because somebody used an accelerant,
Speaker 1: probably like I don't know what gas, something like that,
Speaker 1: yeah or something. According to James Roberts, the prosecutor, he
Speaker 1: said somebody set that fire. He said it was definitely
Speaker 1: not an accident. Yeah, and it's a weird It was
Speaker 1: a weird fire because the bodies of apparently the Roberts's
Speaker 1: were found in the bedroom. Right. No, actually she was
Speaker 1: on a cot in the living room and he was.
Speaker 1: They were sap they were sleeping apart. They were sleeping
Speaker 1: apart anyway, they're wrong. Um. And they died of smoke inhalation. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't get their lumps right off this time. But
Speaker 1: the trail of accelerant led to the back door. So
Speaker 1: it would be kind of weird to me that somebody
Speaker 1: would set a fire in their own house with the
Speaker 1: intention of killing themselves or whatever and lead it from
Speaker 1: the back door. Why would you do that? Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you just soak the room you're in? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: the the only thing that I can think of, and
Speaker 1: this is this is Clarence's plan went wrong. If we're
Speaker 1: saying that Clarence is the one who set this fire,
Speaker 1: the only way that I can see that working is
Speaker 1: if Clarence did indeed walk into the shack. He's pouring
Speaker 1: accelerant as he's walking in. He then you know, he
Speaker 1: says goodbye to Geneva in whatever his you know, I
Speaker 1: love you by I'm leaving again. Scenario is and lights
Speaker 1: it not realizing how fast a fire in a shack
Speaker 1: with accelrat is going to run, and therefore he trapped himself.
Speaker 1: It seems like he should know because he did that
Speaker 1: once before. Yeah. Well, I mean he did a whole
Speaker 1: lot of thing if he did it. There's a whole
Speaker 1: lot of things in that first fire that didn't seem
Speaker 1: to add up, like you know, the shotgun and not
Speaker 1: shooting the guy in the rolling gas chamber. I mean,
Speaker 1: none of this seems like it's a really well formulated plays.
Speaker 1: Not if it was two of them. And there's been
Speaker 1: speculation about murder, suicide or suicide that kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what if they committed suicide, Why would you
Speaker 1: like set a fire and kill yourself that way? Are
Speaker 1: there any arts in the sere? You guys have a
Speaker 1: point of view on this. I never tried to kill
Speaker 1: yourself with fire. We'll have a couple of minutes at
Speaker 1: the end for audience participation if you guys want to
Speaker 1: throw any series and special special preference. If you think
Speaker 1: O J did it, you got to come to the
Speaker 1: front of the line. You can step. But there there
Speaker 1: is the issue of the alcohol levels in both of
Speaker 1: the bodies. They had a lot of booze in them.
Speaker 1: They both had a lot of bo was Devin do
Speaker 1: remember it was point three for Clarence Clarence and point
Speaker 1: to for Geneva. Correct, Yeah, that sounds right I written
Speaker 1: down somewhere, But we're not on at all. That's an
Speaker 1: exceptionally high level of alcohol to have in your system,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm thinking. That's why I wondered if
Speaker 1: you know whoever said it completely bungled it? Has anybody
Speaker 1: anybody here ever been busted for d u I and
Speaker 1: had a breathalyzer? Has anybody ever blown point three? Anybody?
Speaker 1: I'll think that as a no. Okay, yeah, I had
Speaker 1: no idea what point three does to you if you're
Speaker 1: even conscious? Said well, and especially, I mean I know
Speaker 1: that you wanted to say that. You know, maybe since
Speaker 1: Geneva had less alcohol in her system, maybe she did it.
Speaker 1: But she wasn't a drinker, probably not a heavy dank
Speaker 1: so I don't think she would have been able to
Speaker 1: even do that. Probably not. Well, that could explain how
Speaker 1: sloppy the whole thing was. Well, but if Clarence is
Speaker 1: the one who's if if it was Clarence, it's the
Speaker 1: lurker and she is bringing home all this booze for him.
Speaker 1: He may have had an exceptionally high tolerance. I mean,
Speaker 1: guys who sit around and knew nothing but drink all day,
Speaker 1: every day for an extended period of time, their tolerance
Speaker 1: is high. And he was. He was a fugitive from
Speaker 1: the law. So when you're a fugitive, what do you
Speaker 1: do sit around and drink? You drink, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what else you would do. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably all you do. Yeah, okay, So,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's most likely. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of other theories out here. What if that lurker
Speaker 1: wasn't Clarence. M hmmm, So who was it? A boyfriend
Speaker 1: who was jealous about Clarence Beam or what if like
Speaker 1: Clarence came back and was like, what boyfriend, You're supposed
Speaker 1: to wait for me? You thought I was dead? But
Speaker 1: makes sense, and then killed them both by a fire.
Speaker 1: Clarence killed them both. Yeahs, a boyfriend killed Clarence in
Speaker 1: her No, Clarence killed them both. Clarence killed them. Oh,
Speaker 1: I see, So Clarence wasn't killed on the are Yeah,
Speaker 1: either fire. That's either fire. Yeah, Clarence is still out there,
Speaker 1: so yeah, well that's there's always that possibility. Yeah, according
Speaker 1: to what I have heard, they used X rays because
Speaker 1: apparently Clarence had been had been to a couple of
Speaker 1: different hospitals a few times, and so there were bone
Speaker 1: x rays out there of Clarence, and they compared the
Speaker 1: bones in the body to his X rays from those
Speaker 1: stays and they matched. And the dentists looked at the
Speaker 1: dental records, uh of Clarence plus the corpse in those match.
Speaker 1: So it's a pretty definitive identification. I think you're ruining
Speaker 1: this episode. I kind of record the theory, sorry episode
Speaker 1: about that. Well, I mean, you know I should say this.
Speaker 1: I mean, the police had been struggling with this case
Speaker 1: for a long time. They obviously really wanted to get Clarence,
Speaker 1: and so you can see there might have been a
Speaker 1: little incentive there to sort of fudge things a little
Speaker 1: bit and close the case. So, even though I don't
Speaker 1: really think that's what having a police conspiracy exactly, so
Speaker 1: there is always that possibility. I don't really subscribe to it,
Speaker 1: but it seems like why though they wanted to close
Speaker 1: the case. It looks better, but it wasn't it kind
Speaker 1: of closed? No, No, it was still up in case.
Speaker 1: They were still staking at Geneva's house from time to time.
Speaker 1: He's wanted, man, okay, I think it might have been
Speaker 1: a third party myself. Who Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: You wanna talk about third party first? You want to Geneva. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. You want to throw that one. What if
Speaker 1: it was Geneva? Well, yeah, I'm you're the leader on
Speaker 1: this one. But okay, all right, added this. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's do this real quick. Like. So there was
Speaker 1: there was this big two do with the insurance companies
Speaker 1: about the life insurance policies. The insurance companies didn't want
Speaker 1: to pay because they weren't convinced that Clarence had died
Speaker 1: in that first far surprised. Yeah, so this one on
Speaker 1: for a long time. After seven years, they wanted to
Speaker 1: get him declared legally dead and then, but they were
Speaker 1: having a bit of trouble with that because nobody believed
Speaker 1: at that point in time there was actually Clarence who
Speaker 1: had died. Uh. So they took them, She took the courts,
Speaker 1: she took the insurance companies to court and the case
Speaker 1: was finally decided I don't remember when, like in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine, something like that, and then they took it
Speaker 1: to the Indian the Indiana Court of Appeals October about
Speaker 1: mid October nineteen eighty, about a month before the second
Speaker 1: fire October oct Okay, they handed down they're ruling, which
Speaker 1: as they appealed the lower courts ruling, and then uh,
Speaker 1: it was appealed again to the court to for re
Speaker 1: hearing like an on bank hearing. If you guys know
Speaker 1: what that means. On bank what does that mean? It
Speaker 1: means we're usually courts of Appeals usually have they will
Speaker 1: typically have three judge panels deciding a case, and then
Speaker 1: if somebody wants to appeal that, they can appeal for
Speaker 1: an on blank thing, which means that the entire panel
Speaker 1: of judges on the court here's the entire thing. So
Speaker 1: they appealed for that and November twenty four, nineteen eighty, Uh,
Speaker 1: the appeal for a re hearing was turned down. So
Speaker 1: that's five days five days before that second fire. So
Speaker 1: my theory is that somebody was extremely disappointed with that
Speaker 1: court ruling. It could have been Geneva. I mean, Geneva,
Speaker 1: after all, have been suffering for ten years. Uh, and
Speaker 1: that was her you know light at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel, and when that was snuffed out, well, she
Speaker 1: might have lost it and decided, well, I'm killing myself
Speaker 1: and taking Clarence with me because it's all his fault. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it kind of was all his fault, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Or there's a there's somebody else maybe who was disappointed.
Speaker 1: I mean Clarence, you know, I kind of like to
Speaker 1: livey on his means, as I said, just kind of
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, he was not the most responsible
Speaker 1: human being out there. Uh, he might have had a
Speaker 1: credit or to maybe somebody who was like, you know,
Speaker 1: one of these guys that was lenders that kind of
Speaker 1: skirt the edges of the law a little bit. The
Speaker 1: guy was kept coming around, suggesting that maybe it was
Speaker 1: going to break his kneecaps, and Clarence kept saying, hey, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no, we're gonna collect all this money from the
Speaker 1: insurance company. And then when that possibility it was finally
Speaker 1: shut off off, the loan shark comes around and it's
Speaker 1: not only you've been shining me on for like years, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill you, and so maybe that's what happened.
Speaker 1: So you're saying it was murder. I'm thinking it was murder.
Speaker 1: Saying it's murder, and you're not saying it was Chippy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did the murder. Well, you never know, it could
Speaker 1: have been Chippy. I'm actually wearing a Chippy T shirt.
Speaker 1: By the way, it's available for sale, SUFFU And so
Speaker 1: I don't know. Of course, we wanted to leave a
Speaker 1: little bit of time open for the audience because I
Speaker 1: know you guys have probably got all kinds of series
Speaker 1: of your own. You guys ready to Did you want
Speaker 1: to talk about it being an accident? Did we talk
Speaker 1: about it being an accident? Yeah, you know, no, thank you.
Speaker 1: I originally thought there was that possibility. After I chalked
Speaker 1: to talk to John Roberts about it, he was pretty
Speaker 1: definitive that it was not an accident. It was deliberately set.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about it anyway. I mean, they were drunk.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're really hammered and you decided you could have
Speaker 1: put on a little green tea or something like that,
Speaker 1: and then if you get you pass out, if you
Speaker 1: get about to forget about the burd you left on
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, although you know, accelerant, and then on
Speaker 1: your way back to her, you're you're caught in the
Speaker 1: living room note to pass out. You trip over that
Speaker 1: can of gas you keep by the door in case
Speaker 1: of emergencies, pick it up upside down, and just trailing
Speaker 1: behind you somehow, I kind of thick and yeah maybe maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't like it. Do you like it? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I mean, the the only other suspect that we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about, if indeed it wasn't Clarence Origin even that did,
Speaker 1: it would be one of their children. Yeah, because you're
Speaker 1: a pretty good reason. I mean, you want to think
Speaker 1: about it. Your dad tried disappeared and apparently tried to
Speaker 1: defraud the insurance company, and he in a way has
Speaker 1: smeared the family name. I mean, they were not happy
Speaker 1: to the point that they disowned their mother. So they
Speaker 1: must have been carrying some sort of baggage. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: she didn't have a life insurance policy or anything, but
Speaker 1: they may have believed that she was in on it,
Speaker 1: and they kill her because they were mad at her. Yeah. Well, no,
Speaker 1: so they disodor because they're mad at her. And then
Speaker 1: one of them catches wind that clearance is back and
Speaker 1: you know, through whatever process, and so they go over
Speaker 1: and maybe it's a scenario where they walk in and
Speaker 1: they so, yeah, that's that's him, and they're here and
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what ensues from there, and
Speaker 1: then actually maybe somebody drops a cigarette. I mean, so
Speaker 1: butter fingers, I mean, I'm actually just thinking about this. Um,
Speaker 1: what if uh, you know, the appeal had just been revoked, right,
Speaker 1: so they said, no, he didn't dine in the first fire, definitively,
Speaker 1: and so what if a kid thought, oh, well, the
Speaker 1: insurance will pay out if he dies in a different
Speaker 1: fire and we know it's him and we can prove
Speaker 1: it's him. That would be pretty stupid, because I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm saying that. I'm saying that kid is stupid, right, Okay, No,
Speaker 1: it's okay, you're saying I'm stupid. And no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're not stupid. Some of your theories
Speaker 1: are I'm yeah, that was a smart person smart it's fine.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't know. I maybe they're dumb, but
Speaker 1: that means kind of ran in the family. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. There are some there are some raging dumbness houses. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: there is that possibility that they were mad at their
Speaker 1: dads about the whole thing. They were very disappointed they
Speaker 1: decided to go burn the house down. But there's also
Speaker 1: another person who might have been motivated, which is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, a family of the vagrant that was killed,
Speaker 1: although whoever it was was never identified, nobody ever figured
Speaker 1: out who it was. Might just be as the family
Speaker 1: knew who it was and kept their mouth shut, and
Speaker 1: then when they got their chance for a little vengeance,
Speaker 1: they came and took it. But we don't know if
Speaker 1: the vagrant was local. Yeah, I mean that's that's the
Speaker 1: hard part with that is he may have been traveling around.
Speaker 1: What was the phrase before? Yeah, aut setting one yet
Speaker 1: that's what I'm aspired to be someday, yeah, rambling man? No,
Speaker 1: jet setting? Oh aren't you already? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: mean the people that are vagrants and take up residence
Speaker 1: in small towns. I don't think they like jet in
Speaker 1: from New York City to take up residence in Nashville, Indiana.
Speaker 1: But sorry, everybody who's from now waiting? Okay? Wait? No? Sorry? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And well I guess that's about it is. I think,
Speaker 1: guess I think that I don't know why they both
Speaker 1: died in the second fire. I think I don't have
Speaker 1: a resolution to that. But definitely Clarence did not die
Speaker 1: in the first fire. Definitely he died in the second fire,
Speaker 1: looks like, but I don't I still am not satisfied
Speaker 1: as to the reason why. What about you? So, I
Speaker 1: think I think we're all in agreement on the fact
Speaker 1: that it was Clarence in the second fire, not in
Speaker 1: the first. But I still think that it had had
Speaker 1: to have been one of the two set the fire,
Speaker 1: I accident or on purpose? You know what their track record,
Speaker 1: I really don't know. I mean, the problem is is
Speaker 1: that it's it's so easy to say that it's some
Speaker 1: unknown outside third party part of some giant conspiracy against
Speaker 1: the Roberts family. It just seems too easy. Was Clarence
Speaker 1: a smoker? Everybody it was the seventies and eighties. Maybe
Speaker 1: he accidentally, I don't know, dropped a bunch of accelerant
Speaker 1: and then went out to smoke and accidentally flicked it
Speaker 1: in the house and he was like, oh no, I
Speaker 1: love Geneva and was like, yeah, they're stuck in here.
Speaker 1: I like that yeah, and then he died tragically a hero.
Speaker 1: It's the perfect theory. That's such a good point. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with that one. It's well, actually, I kind
Speaker 1: of you know, I've already talked about there were people
Speaker 1: who disappointed by the outcome of the court hearing, and
Speaker 1: I think that there might have been a credit or
Speaker 1: two back there who maybe who knows, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: he usually does break kneecaps, though, what why like murder? Well,
Speaker 1: they're never going to get their money him. Well let's
Speaker 1: let's let's not forget that. I mean, we don't know
Speaker 1: the circumstances, but he could have vote somebody a bunch
Speaker 1: of money. It could have led to this person's financial
Speaker 1: ruin that they were left holding the bag, or at
Speaker 1: least a lot of hardship. And of course everybody knew
Speaker 1: by this point that Clarence was a murderer, and so
Speaker 1: they probably figured, well, I hate his guts, he wrecked
Speaker 1: my business or whatever, and also either murder, why not
Speaker 1: go burn him out? Hey? You know, so it could
Speaker 1: have been somebody like that. So the other thing about,
Speaker 1: you know, don't kill him because you won't get your money,
Speaker 1: ye is there are people that are made an example of.
Speaker 1: So let's just do you think Nashville is such a
Speaker 1: hot bed for they had to you know, if this
Speaker 1: guy liked to spend money as much as it seems
Speaker 1: that he did, he may have been into for really
Speaker 1: deep and to such a agree that it was worth
Speaker 1: it to cut their losses in order to make sure
Speaker 1: everybody else who ever borrowed from them again paid up. Okay,
Speaker 1: So does anybody in the audience have theories? Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: hear some series O J first. Anybody no? No? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see a hand? What's that? Russian hackers? I like that?
Speaker 1: Ma sense that's a good theory. Why you want to
Speaker 1: get out? I don't think the Grand Mason's that listen
Speaker 1: to us are gonna be really happy with that theory.
Speaker 1: They're already there already. Yeah, yeah, I like I'm liking
Speaker 1: thee I see a hand, Oh, chupro we got that
Speaker 1: any murder or what it was? A murder accident, accident
Speaker 1: more blood chupy is not that incompetent. They were just
Speaker 1: having a raucous party, throwing liquor everyone. I mean it
Speaker 1: could be basically the equivalent of grain alcohol, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, really, really, really potent stuff. That would explain,
Speaker 1: that would actually explain. That's a good that's a good point.
Speaker 1: That would explain the blood up. Maybe they had a
Speaker 1: fight there throwing liquor bottles of one another and and there,
Speaker 1: and it could have just knocked over actually, yea worst
Speaker 1: water balloon fight ever. If there was a slant on
Speaker 1: the foundation could have been on a slant and just
Speaker 1: and then clarencelicked the cigarette and he was a hero
Speaker 1: and it was it's perfect. Yeah, I see a hand.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know that m m yeah cigarette a total accident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we don't know how many fires that they were
Speaker 1: actually investigating in that area too. Probably they've had two
Speaker 1: fires and ten years and the same guy at both
Speaker 1: of them, but not a suspicious Yeah, it could have
Speaker 1: been a guy who didn't know what he's doing. It
Speaker 1: just said, it's true. He said that he first fire.
Speaker 1: He was muh yeah true. Yeah, maybe yeah, he thought
Speaker 1: he had more time than he actually did have. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And for our listeners out there, he couldn't to hear
Speaker 1: her talk as he was saying that the gastling could
Speaker 1: have put out a lot more fumes, and then he
Speaker 1: realized and he misjudged that. Okay, good, Yes, that's the
Speaker 1: last one we were waiting for. This is the reason
Speaker 1: you don't drink till you get to point two or three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: o J spontaneously combusted. It's perfect, all right, and now
Speaker 1: and now we get down to the actual topic of
Speaker 1: this podcast. So time to start spon the thinking sideways.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it. Oh, our intern has
Speaker 1: a theory they were hammering. One would assume they weren't
Speaker 1: just drunk. I think so maybe, uh huh. Thank you
Speaker 1: for recapping our theories. That was very helpful. So if
Speaker 1: it's if it's murder suicide, or you say, then that
Speaker 1: the reason that his blood alcohol content was so high
Speaker 1: was so that he was so blasted he wouldn't feel anything.
Speaker 1: Is that? Would that be the reason that he did
Speaker 1: that bravery? Look? Okay, yeah, it could have been too.
Speaker 1: He was just like, you know, flicking that match and
Speaker 1: then pass us out at the very moment that you know,
Speaker 1: the fire goes up. Just ye, he's doing that zippo
Speaker 1: trek from uh four rooms. It's trying to turn it
Speaker 1: on a number of times. Or I saw a hand
Speaker 1: back there somewhere aliens Oh al so they landed like
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand alien Drachmas, and he just wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, in the aliens, that's good and it would
Speaker 1: explain why they die. I mean, maybe they were trying
Speaker 1: to kneecap them and they were like, we don't understand
Speaker 1: how your weird physiology works. I thought it was a hammer,
Speaker 1: but it was a big lighter Yeah, series out there.
Speaker 1: Any general questions we have, like, uh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we probably have to read for a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: We're important. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, that's not where we
Speaker 1: found it. I wasn't watching it on the couch at
Speaker 1: home it was. But I talked to a local journalist
Speaker 1: in Brown County and apparently it's a huge story in
Speaker 1: Brown County. So yeah, and by the way, that's not
Speaker 1: that far as out there here. If you guys all
Speaker 1: want to take a Johnt down there and just walking
Speaker 1: a local store gas station and ask him about it,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll find people that will talk to you
Speaker 1: about it. That reporting. Everybody has a theory. Joe was
Speaker 1: going to take an uber down there last night, but
Speaker 1: that didn't panic. Well, I was trying to talk these
Speaker 1: guys into going down there, and then then you could
Speaker 1: say you've been in Nashville. But then you wanted to
Speaker 1: break in and get the records, and then we wouldn't
Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, I'm sure the records are probably in
Speaker 1: a basement somewhere, if they haven't been burned already. Uh.
Speaker 1: By the speaking of the records, that's something I forgot
Speaker 1: to mention is that in the early eighties, uh, Clarence,
Speaker 1: his son Forrest Roberts, was there was some suspicion, of course,
Speaker 1: that some of his sons may have been involved in
Speaker 1: this conspiracy, and so he was drug before a grand
Speaker 1: jury I think this was two, and given legal immunity
Speaker 1: and forced to testify. So you can always you can
Speaker 1: always claim the Fifth Amendment the end. But if you
Speaker 1: got immunity, well you can't plead the Fifth Amendment. So
Speaker 1: he was forced to tell what he knew. And but
Speaker 1: the deliberations of the grand jury are of course always secret,
Speaker 1: so nobody knows what exactly he said, but no indictments
Speaker 1: were handed down. And my attorney, buddy, James T. Roberts,
Speaker 1: seemed to find this kind of significant. Yeah we're buddies, um,
Speaker 1: but he's seemed to find this significant in terms of
Speaker 1: resolving the question of did the children have anything to
Speaker 1: do with it or not? And he seemed to think
Speaker 1: not and they probably didn't. Well, and you were talking
Speaker 1: about this when we were chatting about this before, Joe,
Speaker 1: is that for that immunity If he had gone in
Speaker 1: and said he didn't know anything, and then after the
Speaker 1: fact it was found out that Clarence was alive or
Speaker 1: that he was involved in some way, then his immunity
Speaker 1: is is no longer valid. Yeah. You have to tell
Speaker 1: the truth, yeah, fell truth and nothing but that. You
Speaker 1: gotta do that. No partial truths. So I don't think
Speaker 1: that the children they might have, but I kind of
Speaker 1: doubt it. I mean I I who the hell knows,
Speaker 1: because it's kind of a dysfunctional family. Definitely, Roberts was Clarens.
Speaker 1: Roberts was an upstanding citizen. Re turned out to not
Speaker 1: be so upstanding. After all, it happens from time to time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, how is it? What? Well? Two of us
Speaker 1: flew Oh in Seattle. I took us three tries to
Speaker 1: hit the to hit the ground finally in Seattle. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when we left Portland, it was rainy, it was cloudy,
Speaker 1: It wasn't all that nice. Anybody doesn't know, by the way,
Speaker 1: we're from Portland, Oregon, and it we didn't. You know,
Speaker 1: we knew the weather was gonna be nice out here,
Speaker 1: so I presume no big deal. The city of Seattle,
Speaker 1: where our first can I was, was completely sucked in
Speaker 1: to the point that we are making our descent. We
Speaker 1: can see the ground sort of maybe, and okay, lean back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna land. And then the pilot pushed the throttle
Speaker 1: for and we lifted off again and he said, sorry, folks,
Speaker 1: it's too foggy. We can't land. I couldn't see actually,
Speaker 1: but he said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna I have to
Speaker 1: come back around. I'll make another approach. So we did
Speaker 1: the whole circling thing again and we come down. We
Speaker 1: can kind of see the ground from my window. Everything's great,
Speaker 1: and again he hits up. We go and he circles
Speaker 1: and he says, I'm sorry, folks, again, I couldn't see
Speaker 1: the ground. We're gonna make a third try, and just
Speaker 1: so you know, if we can't land, we'll have to
Speaker 1: take you back to Portland. And I was panicking because
Speaker 1: I could not imagine the number of connections I was
Speaker 1: going to have to make actually in order to get here.
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to turn around and go back
Speaker 1: to Portland right about then, because I had this picture
Speaker 1: of my mind of this pilot there, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: around the ground no matter what, and so I was
Speaker 1: kind of wanting to just go back to Portland. But
Speaker 1: I guess it was poor planning on our part to
Speaker 1: have you guys both on the same plane. Probably, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I won't do it again. Yeah, No, we got all
Speaker 1: fly separate flights, now I know. But in Devin, mean,
Speaker 1: while I was in the car somewhere in the Midwest,
Speaker 1: I don't know where she was. I don't know where
Speaker 1: I was either. Yeah, I don't know where I've been.
Speaker 1: She was blindfold Yeah, we put a hood on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we got we got on the ground and everybody
Speaker 1: was happy. And I congratulated the pilot on his good
Speaker 1: landing because yeah, he did get us down on one
Speaker 1: piece and yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, but then we got
Speaker 1: another flight from Seattle to here and that actually didn't
Speaker 1: crash either. Uh, so we're here. Yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 1: good food was expensive. There's a question, the question where
Speaker 1: back there we have? Yeah, all selfies, all the time. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: actually we're going to issue a lot of takedown requests,
Speaker 1: get rid of them and finish this question. That's the
Speaker 1: problem too, is that whenever I post her a picture,
Speaker 1: I was come out looking stupid, and there's got to
Speaker 1: be all these pictures of me looking kind of stupid
Speaker 1: and not really but he didn't finish this question. Okay, completely,
Speaker 1: it's weird. That's that's the thing, is a little bit. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: nobody really knows um, and so we'll find out. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it won't be that bad. I've seen us. We're
Speaker 1: pretty disappointing, you know, so we're expecting it's a lot
Speaker 1: of fanfare. Yeah, no, it's okay, it's weird. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is interesting it Joe usually says like, let me start
Speaker 1: that over again, like five times. The magic of betting.
Speaker 1: You gotta understand this is this is obviously not how
Speaker 1: we record. We usually record in a small room facing
Speaker 1: each other, so it's very strange to have to do
Speaker 1: this back and forth. Yeah, we don't have any cats
Speaker 1: in here, Any cats in here? Okay? Yeah, I really
Speaker 1: did expect somebody start using a litter box. Made it
Speaker 1: feel like we were at home. Actually, I've got one
Speaker 1: right down here, but since coming very handy. Uh But
Speaker 1: but to answer your question, uh yeah, we'll see how
Speaker 1: it all pants out. You know that the internet's a
Speaker 1: crazy place. You know. The thing if you guys, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys like read the interview that
Speaker 1: we did, we that I did with the crime con
Speaker 1: informant um, but really the we kind of hit a
Speaker 1: point where it was just not feasible to keep hiding.
Speaker 1: Right We're doing this for four years, which is insane um,
Speaker 1: and we just really realized that you guys are fucking
Speaker 1: awesome what and you are going to be amazing and
Speaker 1: supportive as you have. But I mean, you know, we've
Speaker 1: been kind of looking at social and seeing the responses
Speaker 1: and everybody's been amazing, and we just really wanted to
Speaker 1: come meet you guys. And at that point it just
Speaker 1: wasn't worth hiding anymore because it just seemed too cool
Speaker 1: to get the chance to meet you guys. That's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. By the way, when I said that we're
Speaker 1: worried about all the psychos, I didn't meet any of
Speaker 1: you guys. You guys are cool. Just the crazies on Facebook.
Speaker 1: We're going to be like Oh my god, who the person?
Speaker 1: I think most of our friends now, I had one.
Speaker 1: I started a new job recently and I had a
Speaker 1: somebody was like, do you do a podcast? And I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I have one person at the office
Speaker 1: that knows, and I am curious to see what happens
Speaker 1: because it's a big company and I'm just God, don't, don't,
Speaker 1: don't call me out in the middle of the chilant
Speaker 1: made please. Oh you're the one who does all those
Speaker 1: murder things. Yea cool, that's what I keep finding on
Speaker 1: that you don't print at work. I have lots of
Speaker 1: friends and family that no, but none of them listen.
Speaker 1: Although actually, uh, my nieces listened. So by the way,
Speaker 1: high high low low Hi, Rachel, Hi, Charlotte. Yeah, actually
Speaker 1: my boyfriend is here, and he this is the very
Speaker 1: first time he's ever heard anything related to the podcast
Speaker 1: ever man and Steve's married. His wife won't listen to
Speaker 1: us either. Enough of me, yeah, yeah, any other questions, yeah, yeah, sorry, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: a German accent. Yeah, my German accent sucks. But I
Speaker 1: did have actually, like I'm about a quarter German, and
Speaker 1: so I did have like, you know, ancestors who spoke German,
Speaker 1: and I actually took a year of German, but my
Speaker 1: German accent still really blows. I took other foreign languages too,
Speaker 1: so it's really sad. When I try to do an
Speaker 1: accent on one in one language, it comes out like
Speaker 1: something like Italian, and my and then my Spanish accent
Speaker 1: sounds like German, and then yeah, it's just pathetic. As
Speaker 1: far as the firearms, saying, well, we live in Oregon,
Speaker 1: which is kind of the wild West, and so everybody
Speaker 1: has guns out there, so I can learn a little
Speaker 1: bit about it. About that, that whole topic, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: consider myself an expert. There wasn't yeah answer answer, Oh god, no,
Speaker 1: I hate this questions on that. I yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it might be that. I think the thing about mysteries
Speaker 1: is that I'm only interested when they're unsolved. Um, because
Speaker 1: like that Lori Erica rough case got sold recently and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, dang it, that's so boring know
Speaker 1: that episode. That episode is still out there too, so
Speaker 1: people can go to our back catalog and listen to
Speaker 1: that and they can eat morons every Christ's eggs. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like the Facebook. You can react to comments now,
Speaker 1: but no I mean I think for me, I'm I
Speaker 1: don't have a case that I want solved. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have cases I want solved for the people involved,
Speaker 1: but on a personal level, it's more interesting if they're
Speaker 1: not solved. So they are I do well. If I
Speaker 1: were to get I would probably get Choppy to tell
Speaker 1: me you know who dB Cooper was, and then I
Speaker 1: would murder Tchoopy and take credit because yeah, I I
Speaker 1: really want to solve that case myself. I I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll take Choopy solving it, but I prefer to do
Speaker 1: it myself. Yeah, yeah, I think I would want to
Speaker 1: if I could get the answer from Choopy. I'd want
Speaker 1: to know about its best buddy, which is Bigfoot. And
Speaker 1: I want to know the truth. Not because I like Bigfoot,
Speaker 1: but because I'm tired of the TV show and I
Speaker 1: really just like, let's let's put it to bed. It's
Speaker 1: a guy in a monkey suit, or it's the real thing, Like,
Speaker 1: let's just for you because you also hate those ghost shows. Well,
Speaker 1: you're gonna open a can of worms. Okay, I mean,
Speaker 1: did we want to make this my therapy session? Because
Speaker 1: I got one more question and then we're out of time. Quickly,
Speaker 1: I was collective. It was I think it was a
Speaker 1: little bit more Steve, because Steve has always wanted to
Speaker 1: do something that would go like kind of viral on
Speaker 1: the internet, and so but I stayed off of YouTube. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't do YouTube, but you did a couple of
Speaker 1: websites that were kind of did We're kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't. Yeah, they were fun, but they
Speaker 1: didn't really take off. But then he thought we should
Speaker 1: do a one of those podcast things. Yeah, we're super smart,
Speaker 1: exactly millions of people will listen to us, and so
Speaker 1: and then it was a question, well what do we
Speaker 1: talk about, you know? And so it didn't take us
Speaker 1: too long to figure out the unsolved mysteries, but we
Speaker 1: did debate some other things like cooking show and you know,
Speaker 1: Campion show still doing that. What we thought about true crime?
Speaker 1: Might hear that's popular, but true crime wasn't really our whalehouse,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So yeah, I think we actually over here.
Speaker 1: We're about five minutes ago. It was probably sorry guys,
Speaker 1: but we'll be a podcastro again tomorrow at some point
Speaker 1: what time in the morning, right, Yeah, I can pull
Speaker 1: the schedule out and then we also have a panel
Speaker 1: on Sunday. That will be moderating. Yeah, citizen detectives one
Speaker 1: on one. Yeah, right, thank you very much. That is
Speaker 1: you guys are awesome. If we love you. Hi, Mom,
Speaker 1: she doesn't listen. Shut up. Sorry, we ran over. We're
Speaker 1: not gonna screare you you hear no? Anyone? All right?
Speaker 1: When we got seven minutes for everybody to show us, so, hey,
Speaker 1: you got time to kill guys? Anybody got questions? Anybody now? Okay?
Speaker 1: No question? Too late? No, no, you're too late late.
Speaker 1: What's the question? My favorite episode? That question? Asked, asked Devin. First,
Speaker 1: I gotta think about this. Oh, I can't tell you
Speaker 1: that one. It's actually kind of a bone of contention
Speaker 1: between these two and met. What is that? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so we can't talk about that. What's another hunting joke?
Speaker 1: As usually talking, I can't. I'll explain it to you guys, okay,
Speaker 1: not in front of all these people. The running joke
Speaker 1: is I would say one of them is the studio cats,
Speaker 1: because they like to run. And this is exactly what
Speaker 1: it sounds like when they come into the studio. Now,
Speaker 1: twelve pound cats, How are they so heavy? Their fourteen
Speaker 1: pound cats? That's how they're so heavy. Yes, yeah, well
Speaker 1: it's interesting. One of my cats is extremely stealthy, like
Speaker 1: a cat, you know, and he can be extremely quiet,
Speaker 1: but for some reason, if we're about to record, he
Speaker 1: will come stomping through the room, just bump bump, bump bom.
Speaker 1: I don't know why he knows that we're recording and
Speaker 1: he just makes a lot of noise. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Um So, any other questions, Oh, yeah, Joe and I
Speaker 1: used to Uh, I'll just start that over again because
Speaker 1: there was a whole lot of words that didn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Joe and I have known each other for years. We
Speaker 1: were on a dragon boat team together paddling, and then
Speaker 1: we were out where Yeah we need a bartender and
Speaker 1: he would give us a broad deal. So just say
Speaker 1: I think we're total bar flies. Uh. Yeah. And we
Speaker 1: were talking about a mystery, which I Joe still thinks
Speaker 1: to this day's step Cooper he talks about pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good mystery. And Devon inserted herself into the
Speaker 1: conversation that will surprise everyone in this room. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, alright. Any other questions, Yeah, I'm still supposed
Speaker 1: to give you an answer about favorite mystery, still having
Speaker 1: a tough time. Of course, I still I still actually
Speaker 1: I'm kind of following the Brandon Swanson disappearance. Scoring Um,
Speaker 1: but that's not going anywhere too fast unfortunately. UM. See
Speaker 1: what are some other ones? Of course, dB Cooper, but
Speaker 1: we haven't actually talked about that, so I guess that's
Speaker 1: not legitimate, right, What about you, Devin where I don't
Speaker 1: know that I have a favorite? Oh, the Lake City
Speaker 1: Quiet Hills. That was a good one. That was a
Speaker 1: very popular one, it was. Yeah, And of course the
Speaker 1: Herbert Fuller was kind of a fun one. Do you
Speaker 1: guys hear that one? Murder at cy Acts, Murder at
Speaker 1: c that was a very recent one. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: kind of like that one. Just just start listening her
Speaker 1: episodes and see how many people have listened to any
Speaker 1: given Do you have internet? Yeah? And by the way,
Speaker 1: you guys, I have news. I got to meet Nancy
Speaker 1: Grace and hang on at Picture Cat Picture Fine picture
Speaker 1: there's me and Nancy. Yeah, and uh and I told
Speaker 1: her to come and see us at Nancy you get here?
Speaker 1: Did she just laugh in your face? No? Actually she
Speaker 1: said do you have a card? And she took my card,
Speaker 1: So I think that means she's going to be here.
Speaker 1: I think it means we're getting married. Okay, but they'll
Speaker 1: get they'll get to listen to the intern so it's okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Justin really kind of saved the episode. He did all
Speaker 1: the research, he did. Yeah, he wrote all the scripting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was indispensable. Yeah, it's almost like it was a
Speaker 1: generation Why and then we went out and drank alcohol. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's sorry. You wouldn't move to town. Sorry we got
Speaker 1: two minutes still, any more questions over here? Oh? Oh, sure,
Speaker 1: I am in real estate, but I'm gonna be a
Speaker 1: little vague about it, just because you know, I like
Speaker 1: to be coy. But I'm not a real estate agent.
Speaker 1: H Yeah, and you don't ask for his card. And
Speaker 1: prior to that, I worked in I T for a
Speaker 1: number of years. Um, and then my job was outsourced
Speaker 1: to India, and so I decided to switch professions, which
Speaker 1: is probably a good thing because I was kind of
Speaker 1: bored with the I T thing. Uh, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: about it. So I do that, And actually I really
Speaker 1: enjoy this job better than the other job. I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, job a pretty decent job, but this is
Speaker 1: you know, this is better. Sure, I'll go next. I
Speaker 1: am a designer, so I worked for a tech company
Speaker 1: in Portland's So I do graphic design, industrial design, software design.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty varied, but it's all in that kind
Speaker 1: of art realm, which is why I probably get stuck
Speaker 1: with making our shirts and stuff. I used to work
Speaker 1: on a cruise ship. If you didn't know a cruise
Speaker 1: ship for like three weeks, and that's all it was.
Speaker 1: Actually was just on a cruise. Um. I'm actually I
Speaker 1: am an event planner now, so I plan events like
Speaker 1: this for my real life, which at a bar no
Speaker 1: definite perspective, no in general though, she just does that
Speaker 1: eye my eye. Okay, actually I'm going to shoot my
Speaker 1: ringer off on my phone. Yeah it is yours off. No,
Speaker 1: why would you do that already