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Speaker 1: So I think it's three o'clocks. You are ready when

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Speaker 1: I'm done getting this eyelash. Yeah, it's precisely three o'clock

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Speaker 1: according to my phone, exactly. I guess we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: rolling here, right. So first off, actually, before you go,

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Speaker 1: sorry to rock, is there anybody here from Indiana High Phones?

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Speaker 1: Uh So, we're going to do an Indiana mystory that

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Speaker 1: Joe's already told people about. I haven't told you though,

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Speaker 1: That's the important thing. Uh So, we are doing this

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Speaker 1: as a live taping. So we're going to do our

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Speaker 1: normal intro, and you guys can make as much or

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Speaker 1: as little noise as you want. He's ready, Okay, Thinking Sideways,

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Speaker 1: I'll look at that. I don't know stories of things.

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Speaker 1: We simply don't know of the answa too. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: welcome to a very special episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am Devin, joined as usual by Steve and Joe,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about a mystery. And we're

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Speaker 1: joined us, so I should say by a live studio audience. Guys,

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Speaker 1: say hi, it's a group of very loud five loud. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's do that again. I say hi ya whatever, It's

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Speaker 1: cool that was a good round of applause. Appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a mystery. It's a local mystery.

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Speaker 1: Well it's well, it took place in Indiana, so it's

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Speaker 1: local Brown County. Anybody here from Brown County? Good? Okay,

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Speaker 1: kind of south to here. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the case of Clarence Roberts's death. Is anybody familiar with

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Speaker 1: that case? The death of Clarence Roberts. You guys haven't

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Speaker 1: heard about Clarence treat Joe. Why don't you tell them

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Clarence Roppers. Let me give you

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Speaker 1: it says Joe Shatner style, my shatting. Your invitation kind

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Speaker 1: of sucks, So I'm just gonna read it. Uh. So

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Speaker 1: earlier the hours of October v a shed uh which

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Speaker 1: is being used as a garage on the Robert's property

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Speaker 1: in Brown County caught fire uh and volunteer firefighters came

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Speaker 1: by and tried to put it out. They haven't yet, no,

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Speaker 1: not yet, not in this not around here. But the

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Speaker 1: only thing they were able to say was the Clarence's

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Speaker 1: pickup truck. He had a pickup truck parked down there.

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Speaker 1: They wheeled that out and saved it, but didn't say

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Speaker 1: Clarence who perished in the fire along with two other cars.

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Speaker 1: But then the next day, after things are cooled down

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Speaker 1: a little bit, they were coming through the ashes and

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Speaker 1: they found an interesting surprise which was a burned limbless

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Speaker 1: body of a man apparently Clarence Roberts. And the body

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Speaker 1: was laying on his back, had a ship that sixteen

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Speaker 1: gage shotgun laying across its chest. Um. But investigators were

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Speaker 1: also stiffing through the ash and they found a Masonic

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Speaker 1: ring buried in the ash not far from the body,

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Speaker 1: completely undamaged, not completely, but pretty much undamaged. And Claire

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Speaker 1: and of course was a Mason. He was like a

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Speaker 1: thirty three d gird degree like talk to our experts

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Speaker 1: about this, Yeah, but it was. It was in pretty

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Speaker 1: good shape for having been through a fire. Clarence Roberts

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Speaker 1: was a local businessman. Uh. He and his brother owned

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Speaker 1: a small local chain of hardware feed stores called, I

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Speaker 1: think the Roberts Lumber Company, so obviously sold little rumber

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Speaker 1: Lumber two. They were pretty well to do. They had

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Speaker 1: four children, all boys, and you know, a nice house

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Speaker 1: and a lot of nice luxury cars and also Clarence

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Speaker 1: had several life insurance policies, which was lucky for his

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Speaker 1: family that he died. And so it's time to collect

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Speaker 1: the life insurance right and this is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: valued at like more than a million bucks. This is

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, so like six million now, yeah, in a

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Speaker 1: billion or something like that. So all they had to

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Speaker 1: do was collect that money. But there was a hitch,

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Speaker 1: There was a fly in the ointment. Yeah, they didn't

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Speaker 1: didn't quite get that. So tragedy would hit the family

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Speaker 1: again ten years later when another fire would destroy a

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Speaker 1: shock that was wasn't owned by the Roberts family. I

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Speaker 1: was down in Camp Roberts. Anybody here heard about Camp Roberts,

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Speaker 1: southeast about three miles southeast of Nashville, Indiana, a little

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Speaker 1: place that's mostly owned by the Roberts family apparently, and

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Speaker 1: as the family and if the shack was owned by

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Speaker 1: her nephew, I knew somebody in the family owned. She

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Speaker 1: was staying there rent for you. So robertson sho another

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Speaker 1: Robert another one burns down. This time, however, there are

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Speaker 1: two bodies. Well that was loud. Uh. The first body

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Speaker 1: was identified as Geneva Roberts Clarence's wife, and the second

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Speaker 1: body was identified as that of Clarence Roberts. Don. Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know we had we had service up here.

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Speaker 1: This is awesome. And use their water instead of my water. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, good. You guys wanted an unedited show, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're asking us all the time, so this is what

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Speaker 1: you get. Um. So, as we said, they you know,

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Speaker 1: this this life insurance policy they had tried to collect

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Speaker 1: the family had, but the insurance company had decided that

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Speaker 1: there were some things wrong that made them not believe

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Speaker 1: that it was gonna be Claire actually be Clarence's body,

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Speaker 1: So Geneva didn't get any of the money, so she

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Speaker 1: was left essentially penniless at that point. Uh, they you know,

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Speaker 1: had to sell the family home. The cars were repossessed

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Speaker 1: or I think the brothers that owned them actually took

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Speaker 1: them back for some of those cars and one of

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Speaker 1: them was taken back by his creditors. I talked to

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Speaker 1: a lawyer who knew the knew the Roberts and there

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Speaker 1: was he told me this story about they were in

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Speaker 1: court and Clarence was being confronted by one of his

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Speaker 1: creditors and the creditors. Lawyer says, Clarence, how did you

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Speaker 1: get here today? And Clarence said, I drove And the

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Speaker 1: lawyer turned to the judge and said, your honor, we

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Speaker 1: want that car. And so the judge made Clarence hand

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Speaker 1: over the keys to his Cadillac right there in court.

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Speaker 1: That's how That's how deep in Clarence was living beyond

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Speaker 1: his means, way beyond his means, and Uber wasn't a

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Speaker 1: thing yet. Yeah, and home was not fun humiliating moment

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Speaker 1: for poor Clarence Roberts. Yes, well, and especially for Geneva

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Speaker 1: because she and the family have been trying to collect

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Speaker 1: on the insurance for now ten years and hadn't got

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Speaker 1: it um. So at this point she has to take

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Speaker 1: a job. She is working at the Howard Johnson's. I

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Speaker 1: believe she's working in the kitchen, washing dishes, are baking pies.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that story too. Okay, Her her children abandoned her,

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Speaker 1: the entire family shunned her. So she was on her

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Speaker 1: own at that point. So we're going to play this

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Speaker 1: one a little fast and loose, uh, And we're going

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Speaker 1: to try to add to the story as we talk

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Speaker 1: about theories that doesn't mean, we're going to mix stuff up,

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Speaker 1: but maybe we wouldn't do that. Uh So, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm hosting, so we've got some bullet

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Speaker 1: points here. I'm gonna go ahead and just talk about

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Speaker 1: the high level of what the theories might be, and

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Speaker 1: then we're going to get into it. Sound good, sounds good.

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Speaker 1: So we need to talk about Clarence. We need to

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Speaker 1: talk about if he died in the first fire or

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Speaker 1: the second fire. There are people out there, by the

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Speaker 1: way who still believed Clarence did die in the first fire.

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Speaker 1: We need to talk about Clarence and if he set

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Speaker 1: the first fire or the second fire or neither or both.

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Speaker 1: And we need to talk about if he didn't die

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Speaker 1: in the first fire, where did he go? And then

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about Geneva because it seems like

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Speaker 1: she should have known about this, right you would think,

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Speaker 1: but maybe not. So let's talk about this sweet first

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Speaker 1: theory would be Clarence died in the first fire. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this does not have a lot of subscribers. Well, there's

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Speaker 1: there's a really, really good reason. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we had talked about the fact that when the body

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Speaker 1: was found, we had said that you know, there was

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Speaker 1: no limbs. It's believed that those were burned off. I know,

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Speaker 1: Joe through your conversations with was it the prosecutor? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta I was. Actually was lucky enough to track

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Speaker 1: down a guy named James T. Roberts. He says he's

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Speaker 1: no relation to Clarence, but he was. He was the

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Speaker 1: county prosecutor and I've seen seventy when this happened. He

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Speaker 1: told me. There's stories on the internet that somebody actually

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Speaker 1: chopped off the arms and legs from the body and

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Speaker 1: then put it in the barn and set the fire.

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Speaker 1: But you will see where it says there's like woo

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Speaker 1: or marks on the bones. Apparently, apparently that's not true,

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Speaker 1: according to somebody who was there. And he claims to

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Speaker 1: know everything there is to know about this case. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was the prosecutor. Yeah, he should know everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the thing about the body is, yeah, it's got

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Speaker 1: no arms and legs, so theoretically the fire is so

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Speaker 1: intense that it would have burned them off. There was

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Speaker 1: also talk of a shotgun being found near the body,

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Speaker 1: so it's believed Okay, he set the fire maybe, but

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Speaker 1: he also must have tried to commit suicide by using

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Speaker 1: the weapon on himself. But there was a problem. There

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Speaker 1: was no gunshot wound in the body. There's an issue.

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Speaker 1: Come on, dude, that corner Yeah yeah, yeah, so uh,

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Speaker 1: I guess I really just don't understand even how it

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Speaker 1: plays out that he died in the first fire. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess you would have to say that is Clarence

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Speaker 1: back to the truck up into the barn, lights the

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Speaker 1: barn on fire with the attempt of then he's gonna

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Speaker 1: use the gun on himself. I mean this, this whole

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Speaker 1: series of events. Did that make any sense to anybody else,

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't to me. And the right it was undamaged.

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Speaker 1: If the fire was hot enough to burn his limbs off,

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Speaker 1: that was a ring on the finger should be damaged. Right.

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Speaker 1: And then the corner actually did an autopsy, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not, and they found out that the body had

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Speaker 1: a huge level of or not CEO carbon monoxide and

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Speaker 1: in the bloodstream enough to be fatal. Uh. And yet

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Speaker 1: no evidence of inn a smoke innolation at all, as

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Speaker 1: long as we're all clean and pink. So that was

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Speaker 1: a little bit suspicious. M hmm. Let's see what else

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Speaker 1: flood type there was a blood type, Yeah, I did it.

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Speaker 1: That didn't match. And then they found one tooth and

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Speaker 1: that didn't really match Clarence either. It was also, wasn't

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Speaker 1: it missing a kidney? Or I heard that in one place.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to totally swear by that one. I

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Speaker 1: supposedly the body was missing a kidney and Clarence had

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Speaker 1: both his kidneys. Yeah. Yeah, So if it wasn't Clarence's

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Speaker 1: body dead in the barn, yeah, do you want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the vagrant? I can talk about the vagrant,

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Speaker 1: talk about the talking about vagrance all the time. So

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Speaker 1: there was there. There's two versions of this story. But

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Speaker 1: it is said that Clarence met a vagrant, uh town away, right, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It was not. It was not actually in the town

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Speaker 1: he lived out. Clarence would not be that dumb. He

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Speaker 1: was still dumb, but he didn't quite Okay, So there

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Speaker 1: is a vagrant, and either Clarence met him in a

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Speaker 1: bar and poured so much liquor into him that that

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Speaker 1: when they walked out, the guy started falling down and

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Speaker 1: Clarence said, I'm going to take him to get help.

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Speaker 1: Or the other version of the story is that Clarence

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Speaker 1: met this vagrant. He collapsed on the street, having some

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Speaker 1: sort of medical condition, and Clarence says, I'll get my car,

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Speaker 1: I'll take him to a doctor. There's no record of

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Speaker 1: Clarence ever showing up in front of any doctor with

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Speaker 1: this man. So there's there's the big red first Bred

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Speaker 1: flag about the vagrant. The vagrant, also, by the way, was,

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Speaker 1: according to witness, has had a brown plaid shirt on.

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Speaker 1: And then it turns out that the why is the

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Speaker 1: brown shirt important? The brown shirts important? Why is that important?

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Speaker 1: Why is that? Well? I will tell you why the

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Speaker 1: body was even though it was badly burned, it was

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Speaker 1: laying against the laying against the pavement and or the dirt.

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Speaker 1: I don't actually don't know. Was that a dirt floor

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Speaker 1: they paid floor, I don't care. We'll just assume it

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Speaker 1: was something or the other. But yeah, apparently you got

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Speaker 1: enough heat protection that a fragment of the shirt actually

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Speaker 1: survived the fire. Turns out it was brown plaid. Clarence's

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Speaker 1: cousin that stopped by to visit him, like about fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes before the fire actually broke out, and he said

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Speaker 1: that Clarence was wearing a blue shirt, not a brown

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Speaker 1: plaid shirt. So well that that looked a little funny

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Speaker 1: to the authorities and so people, even though Clarence's family

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Speaker 1: was swearing and actually one pathologist was pretty sure it

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Speaker 1: was Clarence also, but that that maybe seems really wrong.

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Speaker 1: Well it does, because I mean, after all, I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do you gas yourself and then start a fire?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you do that? Exactly? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because he should have because the body should have sucumbed

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Speaker 1: totally to innate smoke, innilation or excuse me, c O

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Speaker 1: two carbon monoxide. You know, people are making me new

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Speaker 1: or just close your eyes. Everybody looked that way. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're pretty sure that Clarence did not die in

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Speaker 1: that first fire, right, Yeah, everybody's pretty sure except for

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Speaker 1: a few people. Like I said, his sons, uh still contend,

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Speaker 1: at least most of his sons and his family. They

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Speaker 1: have a grave actually, I think with the original corpse

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Speaker 1: buried in it and marked with marked Clarence Roberts. Yeah,

236
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Speaker 1: well there's six million dollars lighter since it wasn't, well

237
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Speaker 1: not lighter. But you know they're not okay, they're not.

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Speaker 1: They're not six million dollars heavier. They would have preferred.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Geneva knew that it wasn't Clarence. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think she was in on it from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was kind of thinking it was Geneva,

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Speaker 1: although when I talked to James Roberts about it again,

243
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Speaker 1: he was the one, more than me and more than

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Speaker 1: the Internet who actually knew these two. Uh, and he's

245
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Speaker 1: she was actually very sure that Geneva was not involved

246
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Speaker 1: in any of this scheme because at least in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: at some point, of course, it appears that Clarence did

248
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,839
Speaker 1: come back to town. He he actually abscounted with a

249
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Speaker 1: paramount of cash, and uh, some point he must have

250
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: run out of money, is the thinking, and he came

251
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Speaker 1: back to Geneva, she let she took him back in.

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Speaker 1: And at that point, of course, she becomes complicit because

253
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Speaker 1: I didn't mention that there was a grand jury in

254
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Speaker 1: that indicted Clarence on charges of kidnapping and murder for

255
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Speaker 1: the murder of this vagrant, and so he wasn't wanted man.

256
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Speaker 1: Police were actually local police were looking for They were

257
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Speaker 1: staking out Geneva's home from time to time. So at

258
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 1: that point she became complicit. But he's very sure that

259
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: she was not actually part of the conspiracy, So Clarence

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Speaker 1: would have then placed the ring himself. Probably Clarence put

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Speaker 1: it in there himself, came back after the fire was

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Speaker 1: done and after the volunteer firefighters left for the night. Yeah,

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00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, that's Clarence may not have been as smart

264
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Speaker 1: as he thought he was. Maybe. And one of the

265
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 1: things that that screwed Clarence up is that he had

266
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Speaker 1: a pickup truck, as I mentioned that the firefighters saved,

267
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Speaker 1: and he rigged it up as kind of a rolling

268
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Speaker 1: gas chamber. He plugged the fire of the tailpipe, and

269
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Speaker 1: he had taken what appeared to be a hammer and

270
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Speaker 1: a punch and punched a bunch of holes in the tailpipe,

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Speaker 1: and the firefighters saved the truck from the fire. It

272
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Speaker 1: was actually inside there. It should have been consumed by

273
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Speaker 1: the fire, but these fire firefighters show up and they

274
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Speaker 1: roll the truck out of there and save it. Later on,

275
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Speaker 1: somebody discovered that a lot of a lot of carbon

276
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Speaker 1: monoxide was leaking into the cab of the truck. Uh,

277
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Speaker 1: And so that's when they looked at the tailpipe and

278
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Speaker 1: discovered it had been punctured all over the place. I

279
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Speaker 1: think Clarence probably intended for the truck to be consumed

280
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Speaker 1: in the flames of the fire, but that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta ask yourself, what do you Why do

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Speaker 1: you have a little rolling gas chamber. He didn't need

283
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Speaker 1: it to gas himself inside a closed garage, obviously, Why

284
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Speaker 1: do you have something like that, like gas vagrant? Maybe, yeah,

285
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Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm thinking. That's some other people

286
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 1: are thinking about. It's kind of funny that the volunteer

287
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,240
Speaker 1: firefighters screwed up his plan because obviously, yeah, I know,

288
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: that's pretty hilarious actually when he's okay. So that's theory

289
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: number one done. Theory number two would be Clarence set

290
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 1: and died in the second fire with Geneva Um. I mean,

291
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 1: the the story here, right is that a few years

292
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 1: after Geneva moved into the shock, neighbors started talking about

293
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Speaker 1: a strange man a lurking around Um and Geneva, who

294
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 1: was diabetic and did not drink though she wasn't supposed

295
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Speaker 1: to drink. Well, she didn't, but then you know, her

296
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,480
Speaker 1: husband died or ran off or something, and she had

297
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: a good reason, had some good reasons to but she

298
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 1: was reportedly purchasing a lot of beer and liquor and

299
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Speaker 1: bringing it back to the house. Um, so it's possible that,

300
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Speaker 1: you know, Clarence, as mentioned, came back and that was

301
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Speaker 1: Clarence that was lurking about. Um right, yeah, But the

302
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: important thing to know about the lurker is nobody could

303
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 1: say that was Clarence because this guy he had a

304
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,120
Speaker 1: really really good habit of knowing when somebody was looking

305
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: at him. Just one of those people you know you

306
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,960
Speaker 1: get the hairs on the back of your your next

307
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,880
Speaker 1: stand up. Apparently he had spiky sense, super good, and

308
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 1: so somebody would be there and he would immediately he'd

309
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 1: realize you were there. He would turn and start walking away.

310
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Speaker 1: So if they were on one side of the house,

311
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,639
Speaker 1: he would put himself on the other side of the building.

312
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: So nobody ever really got a good view of him.

313
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Speaker 1: They never could say he was pretty distinctive looking. Clarence

314
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: is actually not a bad looking guy. That's not Clarence.

315
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,120
Speaker 1: Who's that? That's Clarence. Okay, there you go. A thought

316
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 1: Clarence had darker hair. He was Okay, so his hair

317
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 1: kind of went gray, alright, that happens, of course, I

318
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,119
Speaker 1: could have been some guy with of facial deformity he

319
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 1: was shy about it, or maybe some agoraphobia. It wasn't.

320
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: The police were sticking out Geneva's house. Apparently this is

321
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 1: a huge story in Brown County. I think people swung

322
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: by just to just to check on Geneva themselves, just

323
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 1: to laugh at her some yeah, just to see check

324
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 1: out the rumors, see if they spotted clearance in the

325
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 1: front yard or something like that. So Geneva wind up

326
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 1: nailing her front door shut, So she came and went

327
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 1: by the back door just to avoid people look watching her. Uh,

328
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Speaker 1: and which proved to be kind of maybe sort of

329
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Speaker 1: fatal for her in the end, because you know, they

330
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Speaker 1: had that second fire, they did, and they couldn't escape

331
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Speaker 1: by the front door. Yeah, it's the problem with nailing

332
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 1: things shut. The kind of is get back out. So

333
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: again the question though, is who set that second fire. Well,

334
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 1: we really somebody did, apparently because somebody used an accelerant,

335
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 1: probably like I don't know what gas, something like that,

336
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: yeah or something. According to James Roberts, the prosecutor, he

337
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 1: said somebody set that fire. He said it was definitely

338
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,439
Speaker 1: not an accident. Yeah, and it's a weird It was

339
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 1: a weird fire because the bodies of apparently the Roberts's

340
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: were found in the bedroom. Right. No, actually she was

341
00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: on a cot in the living room and he was.

342
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,719
Speaker 1: They were sap they were sleeping apart. They were sleeping

343
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: apart anyway, they're wrong. Um. And they died of smoke inhalation. Correct, Yeah,

344
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 1: they didn't get their lumps right off this time. But

345
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: the trail of accelerant led to the back door. So

346
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 1: it would be kind of weird to me that somebody

347
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: would set a fire in their own house with the

348
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: intention of killing themselves or whatever and lead it from

349
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 1: the back door. Why would you do that? Why wouldn't

350
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: you just soak the room you're in? Well, you know,

351
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 1: the the only thing that I can think of, and

352
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 1: this is this is Clarence's plan went wrong. If we're

353
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 1: saying that Clarence is the one who set this fire,

354
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,439
Speaker 1: the only way that I can see that working is

355
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 1: if Clarence did indeed walk into the shack. He's pouring

356
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: accelerant as he's walking in. He then you know, he

357
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: says goodbye to Geneva in whatever his you know, I

358
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: love you by I'm leaving again. Scenario is and lights

359
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: it not realizing how fast a fire in a shack

360
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 1: with accelrat is going to run, and therefore he trapped himself.

361
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 1: It seems like he should know because he did that

362
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: once before. Yeah. Well, I mean he did a whole

363
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: lot of thing if he did it. There's a whole

364
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 1: lot of things in that first fire that didn't seem

365
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: to add up, like you know, the shotgun and not

366
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: shooting the guy in the rolling gas chamber. I mean,

367
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 1: none of this seems like it's a really well formulated plays.

368
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: Not if it was two of them. And there's been

369
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: speculation about murder, suicide or suicide that kind of thing. Yeah,

370
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean, what if they committed suicide, Why would you

371
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: like set a fire and kill yourself that way? Are

372
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: there any arts in the sere? You guys have a

373
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: point of view on this. I never tried to kill

374
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: yourself with fire. We'll have a couple of minutes at

375
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: the end for audience participation if you guys want to

376
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: throw any series and special special preference. If you think

377
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 1: O J did it, you got to come to the

378
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: front of the line. You can step. But there there

379
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: is the issue of the alcohol levels in both of

380
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: the bodies. They had a lot of booze in them.

381
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: They both had a lot of bo was Devin do

382
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 1: remember it was point three for Clarence Clarence and point

383
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: to for Geneva. Correct, Yeah, that sounds right I written

384
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 1: down somewhere, But we're not on at all. That's an

385
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: exceptionally high level of alcohol to have in your system,

386
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 1: which is why I'm thinking. That's why I wondered if

387
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: you know whoever said it completely bungled it? Has anybody

388
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: anybody here ever been busted for d u I and

389
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 1: had a breathalyzer? Has anybody ever blown point three? Anybody?

390
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: I'll think that as a no. Okay, yeah, I had

391
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 1: no idea what point three does to you if you're

392
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: even conscious? Said well, and especially, I mean I know

393
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: that you wanted to say that. You know, maybe since

394
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: Geneva had less alcohol in her system, maybe she did it.

395
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: But she wasn't a drinker, probably not a heavy dank

396
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: so I don't think she would have been able to

397
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: even do that. Probably not. Well, that could explain how

398
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: sloppy the whole thing was. Well, but if Clarence is

399
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: the one who's if if it was Clarence, it's the

400
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 1: lurker and she is bringing home all this booze for him.

401
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: He may have had an exceptionally high tolerance. I mean,

402
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: guys who sit around and knew nothing but drink all day,

403
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: every day for an extended period of time, their tolerance

404
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: is high. And he was. He was a fugitive from

405
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: the law. So when you're a fugitive, what do you

406
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: do sit around and drink? You drink, you know, Yeah,

407
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what else you would do. Uh yeah,

408
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: I think that's probably all you do. Yeah, okay, So,

409
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's most likely. But there's a

410
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: lot of other theories out here. What if that lurker

411
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: wasn't Clarence. M hmmm, So who was it? A boyfriend

412
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: who was jealous about Clarence Beam or what if like

413
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: Clarence came back and was like, what boyfriend, You're supposed

414
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: to wait for me? You thought I was dead? But

415
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: makes sense, and then killed them both by a fire.

416
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: Clarence killed them both. Yeahs, a boyfriend killed Clarence in

417
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: her No, Clarence killed them both. Clarence killed them. Oh,

418
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: I see, So Clarence wasn't killed on the are Yeah,

419
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 1: either fire. That's either fire. Yeah, Clarence is still out there,

420
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: so yeah, well that's there's always that possibility. Yeah, according

421
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 1: to what I have heard, they used X rays because

422
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: apparently Clarence had been had been to a couple of

423
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: different hospitals a few times, and so there were bone

424
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: x rays out there of Clarence, and they compared the

425
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: bones in the body to his X rays from those

426
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: stays and they matched. And the dentists looked at the

427
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: dental records, uh of Clarence plus the corpse in those match.

428
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: So it's a pretty definitive identification. I think you're ruining

429
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: this episode. I kind of record the theory, sorry episode

430
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: about that. Well, I mean, you know I should say this.

431
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the police had been struggling with this case

432
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: for a long time. They obviously really wanted to get Clarence,

433
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: and so you can see there might have been a

434
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: little incentive there to sort of fudge things a little

435
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: bit and close the case. So, even though I don't

436
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: really think that's what having a police conspiracy exactly, so

437
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: there is always that possibility. I don't really subscribe to it,

438
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: but it seems like why though they wanted to close

439
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: the case. It looks better, but it wasn't it kind

440
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: of closed? No, No, it was still up in case.

441
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: They were still staking at Geneva's house from time to time.

442
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: He's wanted, man, okay, I think it might have been

443
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: a third party myself. Who Well, that's a good question.

444
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: You wanna talk about third party first? You want to Geneva. Yeah,

445
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 1: that's true. You want to throw that one. What if

446
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: it was Geneva? Well, yeah, I'm you're the leader on

447
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: this one. But okay, all right, added this. Okay, okay,

448
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: let's let's do this real quick. Like. So there was

449
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: there was this big two do with the insurance companies

450
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 1: about the life insurance policies. The insurance companies didn't want

451
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: to pay because they weren't convinced that Clarence had died

452
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: in that first far surprised. Yeah, so this one on

453
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: for a long time. After seven years, they wanted to

454
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: get him declared legally dead and then, but they were

455
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: having a bit of trouble with that because nobody believed

456
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: at that point in time there was actually Clarence who

457
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: had died. Uh. So they took them, She took the courts,

458
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: she took the insurance companies to court and the case

459
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: was finally decided I don't remember when, like in nineteen

460
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: seventy nine, something like that, and then they took it

461
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: to the Indian the Indiana Court of Appeals October about

462
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: mid October nineteen eighty, about a month before the second

463
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: fire October oct Okay, they handed down they're ruling, which

464
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: as they appealed the lower courts ruling, and then uh,

465
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: it was appealed again to the court to for re

466
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: hearing like an on bank hearing. If you guys know

467
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: what that means. On bank what does that mean? It

468
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: means we're usually courts of Appeals usually have they will

469
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: typically have three judge panels deciding a case, and then

470
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: if somebody wants to appeal that, they can appeal for

471
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: an on blank thing, which means that the entire panel

472
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: of judges on the court here's the entire thing. So

473
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: they appealed for that and November twenty four, nineteen eighty, Uh,

474
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: the appeal for a re hearing was turned down. So

475
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: that's five days five days before that second fire. So

476
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: my theory is that somebody was extremely disappointed with that

477
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: court ruling. It could have been Geneva. I mean, Geneva,

478
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: after all, have been suffering for ten years. Uh, and

479
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: that was her you know light at the end of

480
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: the tunnel, and when that was snuffed out, well, she

481
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: might have lost it and decided, well, I'm killing myself

482
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: and taking Clarence with me because it's all his fault. Yeah,

483
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: well it kind of was all his fault, yeah yeah, yeah.

484
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: Or there's a there's somebody else maybe who was disappointed.

485
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: I mean Clarence, you know, I kind of like to

486
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: livey on his means, as I said, just kind of

487
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, he was not the most responsible

488
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: human being out there. Uh, he might have had a

489
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: credit or to maybe somebody who was like, you know,

490
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: one of these guys that was lenders that kind of

491
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: skirt the edges of the law a little bit. The

492
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: guy was kept coming around, suggesting that maybe it was

493
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: going to break his kneecaps, and Clarence kept saying, hey, no,

494
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: no, no no, we're gonna collect all this money from the

495
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: insurance company. And then when that possibility it was finally

496
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: shut off off, the loan shark comes around and it's

497
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: not only you've been shining me on for like years, dude,

498
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill you, and so maybe that's what happened.

499
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: So you're saying it was murder. I'm thinking it was murder.

500
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: Saying it's murder, and you're not saying it was Chippy. Yeah,

501
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: I did the murder. Well, you never know, it could

502
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: have been Chippy. I'm actually wearing a Chippy T shirt.

503
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: By the way, it's available for sale, SUFFU And so

504
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. Of course, we wanted to leave a

505
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: little bit of time open for the audience because I

506
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: know you guys have probably got all kinds of series

507
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: of your own. You guys ready to Did you want

508
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: to talk about it being an accident? Did we talk

509
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: about it being an accident? Yeah, you know, no, thank you.

510
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: I originally thought there was that possibility. After I chalked

511
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: to talk to John Roberts about it, he was pretty

512
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: definitive that it was not an accident. It was deliberately set.

513
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: But let's talk about it anyway. I mean, they were drunk.

514
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: Maybe you're really hammered and you decided you could have

515
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: put on a little green tea or something like that,

516
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: and then if you get you pass out, if you

517
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: get about to forget about the burd you left on

518
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, although you know, accelerant, and then on

519
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: your way back to her, you're you're caught in the

520
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: living room note to pass out. You trip over that

521
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: can of gas you keep by the door in case

522
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: of emergencies, pick it up upside down, and just trailing

523
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: behind you somehow, I kind of thick and yeah maybe maybe, Yeah,

524
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't like it. Do you like it? Yeah? No,

525
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the the only other suspect that we haven't

526
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: talked about, if indeed it wasn't Clarence Origin even that did,

527
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: it would be one of their children. Yeah, because you're

528
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: a pretty good reason. I mean, you want to think

529
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: about it. Your dad tried disappeared and apparently tried to

530
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: defraud the insurance company, and he in a way has

531
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: smeared the family name. I mean, they were not happy

532
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: to the point that they disowned their mother. So they

533
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: must have been carrying some sort of baggage. Yeah, but

534
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: she didn't have a life insurance policy or anything, but

535
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: they may have believed that she was in on it,

536
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: and they kill her because they were mad at her. Yeah. Well, no,

537
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: so they disodor because they're mad at her. And then

538
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: one of them catches wind that clearance is back and

539
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, through whatever process, and so they go over

540
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: and maybe it's a scenario where they walk in and

541
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: they so, yeah, that's that's him, and they're here and

542
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what ensues from there, and

543
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: then actually maybe somebody drops a cigarette. I mean, so

544
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: butter fingers, I mean, I'm actually just thinking about this. Um,

545
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: what if uh, you know, the appeal had just been revoked, right,

546
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: so they said, no, he didn't dine in the first fire, definitively,

547
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: and so what if a kid thought, oh, well, the

548
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: insurance will pay out if he dies in a different

549
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: fire and we know it's him and we can prove

550
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: it's him. That would be pretty stupid, because I'm not

551
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm saying that. I'm saying that kid is stupid, right, Okay, No,

552
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: it's okay, you're saying I'm stupid. And no, no, no,

553
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're not stupid. Some of your theories

554
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: are I'm yeah, that was a smart person smart it's fine.

555
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't know. I maybe they're dumb, but

556
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: that means kind of ran in the family. Well, yeah,

557
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: that's true. There are some there are some raging dumbness houses. Uh, well,

558
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: there is that possibility that they were mad at their

559
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: dads about the whole thing. They were very disappointed they

560
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: decided to go burn the house down. But there's also

561
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: another person who might have been motivated, which is, like,

562
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, a family of the vagrant that was killed,

563
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: although whoever it was was never identified, nobody ever figured

564
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: out who it was. Might just be as the family

565
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: knew who it was and kept their mouth shut, and

566
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: then when they got their chance for a little vengeance,

567
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: they came and took it. But we don't know if

568
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: the vagrant was local. Yeah, I mean that's that's the

569
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: hard part with that is he may have been traveling around.

570
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: What was the phrase before? Yeah, aut setting one yet

571
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: that's what I'm aspired to be someday, yeah, rambling man? No,

572
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: jet setting? Oh aren't you already? I don't know. I

573
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: mean the people that are vagrants and take up residence

574
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: in small towns. I don't think they like jet in

575
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: from New York City to take up residence in Nashville, Indiana.

576
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: But sorry, everybody who's from now waiting? Okay? Wait? No? Sorry? Yeah,

577
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: And well I guess that's about it is. I think,

578
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: guess I think that I don't know why they both

579
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: died in the second fire. I think I don't have

580
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: a resolution to that. But definitely Clarence did not die

581
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: in the first fire. Definitely he died in the second fire,

582
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: looks like, but I don't I still am not satisfied

583
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: as to the reason why. What about you? So, I

584
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: think I think we're all in agreement on the fact

585
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: that it was Clarence in the second fire, not in

586
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: the first. But I still think that it had had

587
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: to have been one of the two set the fire,

588
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: I accident or on purpose? You know what their track record,

589
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: I really don't know. I mean, the problem is is

590
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: that it's it's so easy to say that it's some

591
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: unknown outside third party part of some giant conspiracy against

592
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: the Roberts family. It just seems too easy. Was Clarence

593
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: a smoker? Everybody it was the seventies and eighties. Maybe

594
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: he accidentally, I don't know, dropped a bunch of accelerant

595
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: and then went out to smoke and accidentally flicked it

596
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: in the house and he was like, oh no, I

597
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: love Geneva and was like, yeah, they're stuck in here.

598
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: I like that yeah, and then he died tragically a hero.

599
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: It's the perfect theory. That's such a good point. I'm

600
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: gonna go with that one. It's well, actually, I kind

601
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: of you know, I've already talked about there were people

602
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: who disappointed by the outcome of the court hearing, and

603
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: I think that there might have been a credit or

604
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: two back there who maybe who knows, I mean, you know,

605
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: he usually does break kneecaps, though, what why like murder? Well,

606
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: they're never going to get their money him. Well let's

607
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: let's let's not forget that. I mean, we don't know

608
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: the circumstances, but he could have vote somebody a bunch

609
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: of money. It could have led to this person's financial

610
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: ruin that they were left holding the bag, or at

611
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: least a lot of hardship. And of course everybody knew

612
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: by this point that Clarence was a murderer, and so

613
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: they probably figured, well, I hate his guts, he wrecked

614
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: my business or whatever, and also either murder, why not

615
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: go burn him out? Hey? You know, so it could

616
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: have been somebody like that. So the other thing about,

617
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, don't kill him because you won't get your money,

618
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: ye is there are people that are made an example of.

619
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: So let's just do you think Nashville is such a

620
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: hot bed for they had to you know, if this

621
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: guy liked to spend money as much as it seems

622
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: that he did, he may have been into for really

623
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: deep and to such a agree that it was worth

624
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: it to cut their losses in order to make sure

625
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: everybody else who ever borrowed from them again paid up. Okay,

626
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: So does anybody in the audience have theories? Yeah, let's

627
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: hear some series O J first. Anybody no? No? Yeah,

628
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: I see a hand? What's that? Russian hackers? I like that?

629
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: Ma sense that's a good theory. Why you want to

630
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: get out? I don't think the Grand Mason's that listen

631
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: to us are gonna be really happy with that theory.

632
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: They're already there already. Yeah, yeah, I like I'm liking

633
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: thee I see a hand, Oh, chupro we got that

634
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: any murder or what it was? A murder accident, accident

635
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: more blood chupy is not that incompetent. They were just

636
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: having a raucous party, throwing liquor everyone. I mean it

637
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: could be basically the equivalent of grain alcohol, you know,

638
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, really, really, really potent stuff. That would explain,

639
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: that would actually explain. That's a good that's a good point.

640
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: That would explain the blood up. Maybe they had a

641
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: fight there throwing liquor bottles of one another and and there,

642
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: and it could have just knocked over actually, yea worst

643
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: water balloon fight ever. If there was a slant on

644
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: the foundation could have been on a slant and just

645
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: and then clarencelicked the cigarette and he was a hero

646
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: and it was it's perfect. Yeah, I see a hand.

647
00:35:35,920 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah you know that m m yeah cigarette a total accident. Yeah,

648
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: we we don't know how many fires that they were

649
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: actually investigating in that area too. Probably they've had two

650
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: fires and ten years and the same guy at both

651
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: of them, but not a suspicious Yeah, it could have

652
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: been a guy who didn't know what he's doing. It

653
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: just said, it's true. He said that he first fire.

654
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: He was muh yeah true. Yeah, maybe yeah, he thought

655
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: he had more time than he actually did have. Yeah, yeah, okay.

656
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: And for our listeners out there, he couldn't to hear

657
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: her talk as he was saying that the gastling could

658
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: have put out a lot more fumes, and then he

659
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: realized and he misjudged that. Okay, good, Yes, that's the

660
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: last one we were waiting for. This is the reason

661
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: you don't drink till you get to point two or three. Yeah,

662
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: o J spontaneously combusted. It's perfect, all right, and now

663
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: and now we get down to the actual topic of

664
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: this podcast. So time to start spon the thinking sideways.

665
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it. Oh, our intern has

666
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: a theory they were hammering. One would assume they weren't

667
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: just drunk. I think so maybe, uh huh. Thank you

668
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: for recapping our theories. That was very helpful. So if

669
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: it's if it's murder suicide, or you say, then that

670
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: the reason that his blood alcohol content was so high

671
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: was so that he was so blasted he wouldn't feel anything.

672
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: Is that? Would that be the reason that he did

673
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: that bravery? Look? Okay, yeah, it could have been too.

674
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: He was just like, you know, flicking that match and

675
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: then pass us out at the very moment that you know,

676
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: the fire goes up. Just ye, he's doing that zippo

677
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: trek from uh four rooms. It's trying to turn it

678
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: on a number of times. Or I saw a hand

679
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: back there somewhere aliens Oh al so they landed like

680
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand alien Drachmas, and he just wasn't. Yeah,

681
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, in the aliens, that's good and it would

682
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: explain why they die. I mean, maybe they were trying

683
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: to kneecap them and they were like, we don't understand

684
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: how your weird physiology works. I thought it was a hammer,

685
00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: but it was a big lighter Yeah, series out there.

686
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: Any general questions we have, like, uh, I don't know,

687
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: we probably have to read for a little bit longer.

688
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: We're important. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, that's not where we

689
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: found it. I wasn't watching it on the couch at

690
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: home it was. But I talked to a local journalist

691
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: in Brown County and apparently it's a huge story in

692
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: Brown County. So yeah, and by the way, that's not

693
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: that far as out there here. If you guys all

694
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: want to take a Johnt down there and just walking

695
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: a local store gas station and ask him about it,

696
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll find people that will talk to you

697
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: about it. That reporting. Everybody has a theory. Joe was

698
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: going to take an uber down there last night, but

699
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: that didn't panic. Well, I was trying to talk these

700
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: guys into going down there, and then then you could

701
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: say you've been in Nashville. But then you wanted to

702
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: break in and get the records, and then we wouldn't

703
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, I'm sure the records are probably in

704
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: a basement somewhere, if they haven't been burned already. Uh.

705
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: By the speaking of the records, that's something I forgot

706
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: to mention is that in the early eighties, uh, Clarence,

707
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: his son Forrest Roberts, was there was some suspicion, of course,

708
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: that some of his sons may have been involved in

709
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: this conspiracy, and so he was drug before a grand

710
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: jury I think this was two, and given legal immunity

711
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: and forced to testify. So you can always you can

712
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: always claim the Fifth Amendment the end. But if you

713
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: got immunity, well you can't plead the Fifth Amendment. So

714
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: he was forced to tell what he knew. And but

715
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: the deliberations of the grand jury are of course always secret,

716
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: so nobody knows what exactly he said, but no indictments

717
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: were handed down. And my attorney, buddy, James T. Roberts,

718
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: seemed to find this kind of significant. Yeah we're buddies, um,

719
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: but he's seemed to find this significant in terms of

720
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: resolving the question of did the children have anything to

721
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: do with it or not? And he seemed to think

722
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 1: not and they probably didn't. Well, and you were talking

723
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: about this when we were chatting about this before, Joe,

724
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: is that for that immunity If he had gone in

725
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: and said he didn't know anything, and then after the

726
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: fact it was found out that Clarence was alive or

727
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: that he was involved in some way, then his immunity

728
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: is is no longer valid. Yeah. You have to tell

729
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: the truth, yeah, fell truth and nothing but that. You

730
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: gotta do that. No partial truths. So I don't think

731
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: that the children they might have, but I kind of

732
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: doubt it. I mean I I who the hell knows,

733
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: because it's kind of a dysfunctional family. Definitely, Roberts was Clarens.

734
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: Roberts was an upstanding citizen. Re turned out to not

735
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: be so upstanding. After all, it happens from time to time.

736
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, how is it? What? Well? Two of us

737
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: flew Oh in Seattle. I took us three tries to

738
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: hit the to hit the ground finally in Seattle. Yeah.

739
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: So when we left Portland, it was rainy, it was cloudy,

740
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't all that nice. Anybody doesn't know, by the way,

741
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: we're from Portland, Oregon, and it we didn't. You know,

742
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: we knew the weather was gonna be nice out here,

743
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: so I presume no big deal. The city of Seattle,

744
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: where our first can I was, was completely sucked in

745
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: to the point that we are making our descent. We

746
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: can see the ground sort of maybe, and okay, lean back,

747
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna land. And then the pilot pushed the throttle

748
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: for and we lifted off again and he said, sorry, folks,

749
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: it's too foggy. We can't land. I couldn't see actually,

750
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: but he said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna I have to

751
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: come back around. I'll make another approach. So we did

752
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: the whole circling thing again and we come down. We

753
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: can kind of see the ground from my window. Everything's great,

754
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: and again he hits up. We go and he circles

755
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: and he says, I'm sorry, folks, again, I couldn't see

756
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: the ground. We're gonna make a third try, and just

757
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: so you know, if we can't land, we'll have to

758
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 1: take you back to Portland. And I was panicking because

759
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: I could not imagine the number of connections I was

760
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: going to have to make actually in order to get here.

761
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to turn around and go back

762
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: to Portland right about then, because I had this picture

763
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: of my mind of this pilot there, I'm gonna get

764
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: around the ground no matter what, and so I was

765
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: kind of wanting to just go back to Portland. But

766
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: I guess it was poor planning on our part to

767
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: have you guys both on the same plane. Probably, Yeah, yeah,

768
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: I won't do it again. Yeah, No, we got all

769
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: fly separate flights, now I know. But in Devin, mean,

770
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: while I was in the car somewhere in the Midwest,

771
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: I don't know where she was. I don't know where

772
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: I was either. Yeah, I don't know where I've been.

773
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 1: She was blindfold Yeah, we put a hood on. Yeah,

774
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: but we got we got on the ground and everybody

775
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: was happy. And I congratulated the pilot on his good

776
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: landing because yeah, he did get us down on one

777
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: piece and yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, but then we got

778
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 1: another flight from Seattle to here and that actually didn't

779
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: crash either. Uh, so we're here. Yeah, it's it's a

780
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 1: good food was expensive. There's a question, the question where

781
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: back there we have? Yeah, all selfies, all the time. Yes, well,

782
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: actually we're going to issue a lot of takedown requests,

783
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: get rid of them and finish this question. That's the

784
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: problem too, is that whenever I post her a picture,

785
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: I was come out looking stupid, and there's got to

786
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: be all these pictures of me looking kind of stupid

787
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: and not really but he didn't finish this question. Okay, completely,

788
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: it's weird. That's that's the thing, is a little bit. Yeah, no,

789
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: nobody really knows um, and so we'll find out. I'm

790
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: sure it won't be that bad. I've seen us. We're

791
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: pretty disappointing, you know, so we're expecting it's a lot

792
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: of fanfare. Yeah, no, it's okay, it's weird. Yeah, it

793
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: is interesting it Joe usually says like, let me start

794
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: that over again, like five times. The magic of betting.

795
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: You gotta understand this is this is obviously not how

796
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: we record. We usually record in a small room facing

797
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: each other, so it's very strange to have to do

798
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: this back and forth. Yeah, we don't have any cats

799
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: in here, Any cats in here? Okay? Yeah, I really

800
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: did expect somebody start using a litter box. Made it

801
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: feel like we were at home. Actually, I've got one

802
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: right down here, but since coming very handy. Uh But

803
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: but to answer your question, uh yeah, we'll see how

804
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: it all pants out. You know that the internet's a

805
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: crazy place. You know. The thing if you guys, I

806
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys like read the interview that

807
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: we did, we that I did with the crime con

808
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: informant um, but really the we kind of hit a

809
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: point where it was just not feasible to keep hiding.

810
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: Right We're doing this for four years, which is insane um,

811
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: and we just really realized that you guys are fucking

812
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: awesome what and you are going to be amazing and

813
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: supportive as you have. But I mean, you know, we've

814
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: been kind of looking at social and seeing the responses

815
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: and everybody's been amazing, and we just really wanted to

816
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: come meet you guys. And at that point it just

817
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: wasn't worth hiding anymore because it just seemed too cool

818
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: to get the chance to meet you guys. That's yeah,

819
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: that's it. By the way, when I said that we're

820
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: worried about all the psychos, I didn't meet any of

821
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: you guys. You guys are cool. Just the crazies on Facebook.

822
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: We're going to be like Oh my god, who the person?

823
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: I think most of our friends now, I had one.

824
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: I started a new job recently and I had a

825
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: somebody was like, do you do a podcast? And I

826
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I have one person at the office

827
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: that knows, and I am curious to see what happens

828
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: because it's a big company and I'm just God, don't, don't,

829
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: don't call me out in the middle of the chilant

830
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: made please. Oh you're the one who does all those

831
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: murder things. Yea cool, that's what I keep finding on

832
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: that you don't print at work. I have lots of

833
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: friends and family that no, but none of them listen.

834
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: Although actually, uh, my nieces listened. So by the way,

835
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: high high low low Hi, Rachel, Hi, Charlotte. Yeah, actually

836
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: my boyfriend is here, and he this is the very

837
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: first time he's ever heard anything related to the podcast

838
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: ever man and Steve's married. His wife won't listen to

839
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: us either. Enough of me, yeah, yeah, any other questions, yeah, yeah, sorry, yes, yes,

840
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: a German accent. Yeah, my German accent sucks. But I

841
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: did have actually, like I'm about a quarter German, and

842
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: so I did have like, you know, ancestors who spoke German,

843
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: and I actually took a year of German, but my

844
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: German accent still really blows. I took other foreign languages too,

845
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: so it's really sad. When I try to do an

846
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: accent on one in one language, it comes out like

847
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 1: something like Italian, and my and then my Spanish accent

848
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: sounds like German, and then yeah, it's just pathetic. As

849
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: far as the firearms, saying, well, we live in Oregon,

850
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of the wild West, and so everybody

851
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: has guns out there, so I can learn a little

852
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: bit about it. About that, that whole topic, I wouldn't

853
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: consider myself an expert. There wasn't yeah answer answer, Oh god, no,

854
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: I hate this questions on that. I yeah, I mean

855
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: it might be that. I think the thing about mysteries

856
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: is that I'm only interested when they're unsolved. Um, because

857
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: like that Lori Erica rough case got sold recently and

858
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: I was like, well, dang it, that's so boring know

859
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: that episode. That episode is still out there too, so

860
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: people can go to our back catalog and listen to

861
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: that and they can eat morons every Christ's eggs. I mean,

862
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: it's like the Facebook. You can react to comments now,

863
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: but no I mean I think for me, I'm I

864
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: don't have a case that I want solved. I mean,

865
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 1: I have cases I want solved for the people involved,

866
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 1: but on a personal level, it's more interesting if they're

867
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: not solved. So they are I do well. If I

868
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: were to get I would probably get Choppy to tell

869
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: me you know who dB Cooper was, and then I

870
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: would murder Tchoopy and take credit because yeah, I I

871
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: really want to solve that case myself. I I mean,

872
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: I'll take Choopy solving it, but I prefer to do

873
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: it myself. Yeah, yeah, I think I would want to

874
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: if I could get the answer from Choopy. I'd want

875
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: to know about its best buddy, which is Bigfoot. And

876
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: I want to know the truth. Not because I like Bigfoot,

877
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: but because I'm tired of the TV show and I

878
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: really just like, let's let's put it to bed. It's

879
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: a guy in a monkey suit, or it's the real thing, Like,

880
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: let's just for you because you also hate those ghost shows. Well,

881
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna open a can of worms. Okay, I mean,

882
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: did we want to make this my therapy session? Because

883
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: I got one more question and then we're out of time. Quickly,

884
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: I was collective. It was I think it was a

885
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: little bit more Steve, because Steve has always wanted to

886
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: do something that would go like kind of viral on

887
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: the internet, and so but I stayed off of YouTube. Yeah,

888
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: he didn't do YouTube, but you did a couple of

889
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: websites that were kind of did We're kind of like,

890
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't. Yeah, they were fun, but they

891
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: didn't really take off. But then he thought we should

892
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: do a one of those podcast things. Yeah, we're super smart,

893
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: exactly millions of people will listen to us, and so

894
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: and then it was a question, well what do we

895
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: talk about, you know? And so it didn't take us

896
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: too long to figure out the unsolved mysteries, but we

897
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: did debate some other things like cooking show and you know,

898
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: Campion show still doing that. What we thought about true crime?

899
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: Might hear that's popular, but true crime wasn't really our whalehouse,

900
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So yeah, I think we actually over here.

901
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: We're about five minutes ago. It was probably sorry guys,

902
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: but we'll be a podcastro again tomorrow at some point

903
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: what time in the morning, right, Yeah, I can pull

904
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 1: the schedule out and then we also have a panel

905
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: on Sunday. That will be moderating. Yeah, citizen detectives one

906
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: on one. Yeah, right, thank you very much. That is

907
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: you guys are awesome. If we love you. Hi, Mom,

908
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: she doesn't listen. Shut up. Sorry, we ran over. We're

909
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: not gonna screare you you hear no? Anyone? All right?

910
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: When we got seven minutes for everybody to show us, so, hey,

911
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: you got time to kill guys? Anybody got questions? Anybody now? Okay?

912
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: No question? Too late? No, no, you're too late late.

913
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: What's the question? My favorite episode? That question? Asked, asked Devin. First,

914
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: I gotta think about this. Oh, I can't tell you

915
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: that one. It's actually kind of a bone of contention

916
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: between these two and met. What is that? Yeah, and

917
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: so we can't talk about that. What's another hunting joke?

918
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: As usually talking, I can't. I'll explain it to you guys, okay,

919
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: not in front of all these people. The running joke

920
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: is I would say one of them is the studio cats,

921
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: because they like to run. And this is exactly what

922
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: it sounds like when they come into the studio. Now,

923
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: twelve pound cats, How are they so heavy? Their fourteen

924
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: pound cats? That's how they're so heavy. Yes, yeah, well

925
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: it's interesting. One of my cats is extremely stealthy, like

926
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: a cat, you know, and he can be extremely quiet,

927
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: but for some reason, if we're about to record, he

928
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: will come stomping through the room, just bump bump, bump bom.

929
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 1: I don't know why he knows that we're recording and

930
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: he just makes a lot of noise. I don't get it.

931
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: Um So, any other questions, Oh, yeah, Joe and I

932
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 1: used to Uh, I'll just start that over again because

933
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: there was a whole lot of words that didn't make sense.

934
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: Joe and I have known each other for years. We

935
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 1: were on a dragon boat team together paddling, and then

936
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: we were out where Yeah we need a bartender and

937
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: he would give us a broad deal. So just say

938
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: I think we're total bar flies. Uh. Yeah. And we

939
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: were talking about a mystery, which I Joe still thinks

940
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: to this day's step Cooper he talks about pretty much. Yeah,

941
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: it's a good mystery. And Devon inserted herself into the

942
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: conversation that will surprise everyone in this room. Yeah, yeah,

943
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: I know, alright. Any other questions, Yeah, I'm still supposed

944
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: to give you an answer about favorite mystery, still having

945
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: a tough time. Of course, I still I still actually

946
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: I'm kind of following the Brandon Swanson disappearance. Scoring Um,

947
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: but that's not going anywhere too fast unfortunately. UM. See

948
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: what are some other ones? Of course, dB Cooper, but

949
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: we haven't actually talked about that, so I guess that's

950
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: not legitimate, right, What about you, Devin where I don't

951
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: know that I have a favorite? Oh, the Lake City

952
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: Quiet Hills. That was a good one. That was a

953
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: very popular one, it was. Yeah, And of course the

954
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: Herbert Fuller was kind of a fun one. Do you

955
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: guys hear that one? Murder at cy Acts, Murder at

956
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: c that was a very recent one. Yeah, yeah, I

957
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: kind of like that one. Just just start listening her

958
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 1: episodes and see how many people have listened to any

959
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: given Do you have internet? Yeah? And by the way,

960
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: you guys, I have news. I got to meet Nancy

961
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 1: Grace and hang on at Picture Cat Picture Fine picture

962
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 1: there's me and Nancy. Yeah, and uh and I told

963
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: her to come and see us at Nancy you get here?

964
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: Did she just laugh in your face? No? Actually she

965
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: said do you have a card? And she took my card,

966
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: So I think that means she's going to be here.

967
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: I think it means we're getting married. Okay, but they'll

968
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: get they'll get to listen to the intern so it's okay. Yeah,

969
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: Justin really kind of saved the episode. He did all

970
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: the research, he did. Yeah, he wrote all the scripting. Yeah,

971
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: it was indispensable. Yeah, it's almost like it was a

972
00:55:54,360 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: generation Why and then we went out and drank alcohol. Yeah,

973
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: that's sorry. You wouldn't move to town. Sorry we got

974
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: two minutes still, any more questions over here? Oh? Oh, sure,

975
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: I am in real estate, but I'm gonna be a

976
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 1: little vague about it, just because you know, I like

977
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: to be coy. But I'm not a real estate agent.

978
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: H Yeah, and you don't ask for his card. And

979
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: prior to that, I worked in I T for a

980
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: number of years. Um, and then my job was outsourced

981
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: to India, and so I decided to switch professions, which

982
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: is probably a good thing because I was kind of

983
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: bored with the I T thing. Uh, I mean, that's

984
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: about it. So I do that, And actually I really

985
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: enjoy this job better than the other job. I gotta

986
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: tell you, job a pretty decent job, but this is

987
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, this is better. Sure, I'll go next. I

988
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 1: am a designer, so I worked for a tech company

989
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: in Portland's So I do graphic design, industrial design, software design.

990
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,399
Speaker 1: So it's pretty varied, but it's all in that kind

991
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: of art realm, which is why I probably get stuck

992
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: with making our shirts and stuff. I used to work

993
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 1: on a cruise ship. If you didn't know a cruise

994
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: ship for like three weeks, and that's all it was.

995
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: Actually was just on a cruise. Um. I'm actually I

996
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: am an event planner now, so I plan events like

997
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: this for my real life, which at a bar no

998
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: definite perspective, no in general though, she just does that

999
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: eye my eye. Okay, actually I'm going to shoot my

1000
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: ringer off on my phone. Yeah it is yours off. No,

1001
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: why would you do that already