WEBVTT - #186 Jason Flom with Alfred DeWayne Brown 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.520 On April third, two thousand and three, three men robbed 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:10.360 a Houston checkcashing store, shooting and killing the clerk, Alfridia Jones, 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.760 as well as the responding officer, Charles Clark. An eyewitness 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.880 saw the men flee to a local housing project. Two 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.560 of the men, the Shawn Glasbia and Elijah Jubert, were 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.240 soon identified and arrested, but they protected the third man 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.080 by pointing the finger at Dwayne Brown. The Shawn Glasbia 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.880 cut a deal for his testimony against Dwayne, and a 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.479 second eyewitness was coerced into supporting that testimony. But Dwayne 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.360 was at his girlfriend, Erica Dockery's apartment at the time 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.240 of the crime. He had called her at her workplace 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.920 on the apartment's landline, and Erica corroborated that story. The 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.280 prosecutor soon charged Erica Dockery with perjury for her grand 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.800 jury testimony, sending her to jail for four months, away 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.600 from her kids, and causing her to eventually start telling 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.080 the story that he wanted here. With no more alibi 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.520 witnesses and no phone records presented in trial to corroborate 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.360 his story, Dwayne, a man they knew was innocent, was 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:29.160 sent to death Row. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.880 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. You're about 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.880 to hear the story of Dwayne Brown. This case involves 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.440 an innocent man sentenced to death, a district attorney who 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:45.160 knew he was innocent before he prosecuted him, and witnesses 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.800 that were coursed as two light of a term with 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.760 us today to tell the story is the man who 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.200 is primarily responsible for getting him out. Brian Stolar's Welcome 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:56.560 to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.240 Hey, thank you so much for having me. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.800 And of course saving the best for last. We have 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.800 the man himself, Dwayne Brown. Thank you for being here, 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.040 and welcome to wrongful Conviction. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:06.760 Thank you, thank you for having me. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.560 And sorry for everything that you had to go through 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.960 to get here to be here, but so happy that 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.239 you're free today. So let's go back to the beginning. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.440 Where did you grow up and what was your life 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.920 like before this this tragedy happened that you ended up 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.399 being falsely blamed for. 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.720 Well, I grew up back and forth and takes us 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.960 a Louisana with my mom, but I mainly stayed in Lousano. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.639 Out here is just a straight country. You know, it's 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.679 a lot of fun. If you like being out in 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.120 and open. That's well. I live in now. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:39.800 It's peaceful, okay. 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.440 And Brian, can you take us back to the crime 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.160 and how the hell Dwayne Ever got his name thrown 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.240 into the mix when it should have been clear to 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.400 everyone that he wasn't and could not have been a 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:53.080 part of this scenario. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.200 On April third, two thousand and three, three men robbed 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.840 a Houston check cashing store South Houston called Ace America's 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.919 Cash Express. There was an inside job. Someone who worked 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.160 there said there was going to be three hundred thousand bucks, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.320 a huge drop of money, so people were conspiring to 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.639 steal it. Three men went to go rob it, and 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.480 a clerk who was there that day turned out to 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.720 not be the woman who gave him the inside tip. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:21.880 She got cold feet, decided she didn't want to be there. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.639 So a woman named Alfridia Jones, who had just had 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.680 a baby, twenty seven year old woman, and she opened 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.760 the door. She got bum rushed by one of the guys. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.600 They asked her to open the safe. She says, I 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.359 have to call to let my boss know him here. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.880 She calls but she uses the code for being robbed 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.920 as I'm opening store twenty four or something like that. That 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.160 was code from being robbed. Officer Charles Clark, a forty 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.280 five year old decorated veteran of the Heaston Police Force, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.640 almost on the verge of retirement, was nearby. They were 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.560 towing cars for impound and he happened to be nearby. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.360 So he went to the scene and was murdered tragically. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.760 And Alfredia Jones was murdered tragically. And the record driver 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.920 who was with the cop had driven by the scene 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.360 and saw three men rush out. And the three men 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.120 went to a housing complex, got rid of some clothes, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.360 tried to get out of town. Now two of those 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.880 men we know. One of them was arrested the next 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.400 day to Shawn Glasby and another man named Elijah Jolbert. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.080 Last week was twenty one, Elijah twenty three. Now there 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.839 was three men. The Glassby and Joe bat sort of 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.560 conspired to tell them that Dwayne Brown was the third guy, 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.480 and they had several interviews with the cops. They were 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.760 getting the third degree, and Glassby cut a deal. He 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.279 agreed to plead guilty to armed robbery only and take 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.359 a thirty year sentence in exchange for testifying against Dwayne 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.360 and Elijah Jolbert in separate trials. Elijah Jolbert was charged 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.200 with murdering Alfrida Jones and Dwayne Brown was charge at 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:51.159 murdering Officer Clark. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.040 So they got to charge two people with capital murder, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.200 which we know Texas loves their death penalty, right, And 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.280 these guys didn't want to implicate the third guy for 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.160 whatever reason, the actual third guy who was known to them. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.000 But how did it come to your attention that you 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.239 were a suspect in this case? Did they just bust 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:09.560 down your door one day and. 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.480 My mommy came got me. Somebody told her that what 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.120 was going on, So she was asking me what's going on? 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.200 I said, I don't know. She said, well, if you 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.560 wasn't there, let's just go turn yourself into the police station. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.479 And they pulled me over right before I got to 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:23.160 the police station. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.000 Did you know that this was what they wanted you for? No? 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:26.520 I didn't. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.280 So you just were going in to see what was 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.920 going on pretty much right, And then did you ever 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.279 see free air again after that moment? 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.479 Oh? No, Once they put them handc les something I 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.040 didn't try them loosen until twelve years later. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.280 Listeners of our show, No, I've had Rob Well and 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.680 Rodney Reid, two innocent men on death row in Texas 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.600 on the show. I can't even imagine what twelve minutes 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.039 on there would be like, much less twelve years. But 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.160 you're here to tell the tale, which is great, and 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.000 you know how it happened to you and how it 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.760 got undone, Brian, if you could walk through some of 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.280 the dirty tricks that they used in order to fabricate 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.640 this case and to condemn an innocent man, you know, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.960 the whole system broke on Dwayne. Now, there's never been 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.440 and never will be, any science that ties Dwayne to 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.440 this offense. No DNA, no gunsch at residue, no fingerprints, 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.560 no nothing. And so they had to get this conviction 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.000 through witness testimony because they already had Deshaun Glassbie, who 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.919 agreed to plead guilty thirty years testify against them. But 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.800 by law, they corroborated the snitches testimony with evidence, but 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.279 they had none because they had no science. And I 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.880 realized pretty early on when I got the case on 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.720 habeas which we'll explain later, that this was corrupt from 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.120 the very very beginning, and it manifests itself in a 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.640 couple different ways. First witness intimidation. He had one witness 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.200 named Sean de Simon who had told the police that 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.960 she did not see Dwayne the morning of. They apparently 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.919 had all congregated at. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.280 A housing complex. She said that she didn't see him. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.920 The police pressure frightened her and said, if you don't 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.960 say that you saw Dwaine that morning, we're gonna take 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.000 your kids away. She was living in a housing vouchered 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.320 a child with cerebral palsy in a wheelchair, wanted nothing 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.040 to do with the police. They made her life miserable. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.840 They came by every day, and so she said, fine, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.239 I saw him there. So that's one piece of witness. 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.280 I said that they saw the morning of. But Jason, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.160 nowhere was the investigation more corrupt and I think more 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.040 broken than in the grand jury process involving Erica Dockery. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.200 Now Erica Dockery was Dwayne's girlfriend, and Dwayne had an 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.800 alibi from the very beginning. He was at Erica's apartment 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.880 on the morning of the murder and made a phone 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.920 call to where she worked. And so she goes to 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.640 the police station and tells that exact thing. When I 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.640 left for work that morning, he was there, and yeah, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.280 later that morning, I was working as a home health 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.560 carriage to an elderly woman. A phone call came in. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.560 I looked down on the caller ID box, which incidentally 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.120 have to explain to anyone under the age of thirty. 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.840 But on the caller ID box it said her house. 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.120 The elderly woman picks it up, it's Dwayne, hands it 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.720 to Erica. He tells that to the cops, and then 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:03.440 she gets put in what's called the grand jury. For 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.520 those of you who are not criminal defense lawyers, a 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.680 grand jury is an investigative body of members of the public. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.080 But I have to get to that later too. Is 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.520 how this was also skewed. Members of the public sit 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.840 and listen to the evidence, and if there's enough evidence 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.040 to proceed, then the grand jury says, yes, prosecutor, you 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.280 may proceed with a charge against that defendant. Then the 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.000 charge is lodged, and then you get to the trial 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.680 stff like you see on TV. Erica goes to the 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.720 grand jury and says this, he was there when I 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.720 left that morning, and the phone call came in and 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.880 there's a moment where that all turns now. Erica's uncounseled, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.360 she goes in there tells the truth. During a break. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.520 Dan Rizzo, the prosecutor in this case we hear a 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.600 lot about, takes her into a locked room and says, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.040 if you don't say what I want, if you don't 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.480 tell me the truth, my truth, you know you're gonna 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.439 go jail the rest of your life or maybe die. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.560 And then she goes back in the grand jury and 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.640 the grand jurors themselves start badgering her and threatening her 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.680 and pressuring her, saying things like, come on, Erica, don't 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.680 worry about that guy, think about your kids. Tell us 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.640 the truth. And she holds firm and tells the truth. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.360 And then afterwards dan Rizzo decides to charge her with perjury. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.240 Why because he could. He asks for a high bail 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.040 for her. She's not violent, has no prior convictions or anything, 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.680 but ask for high bail because he can, because he 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.400 knows that she'll sit in jail because she can't make 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.560 the bail. She sits there for four months, loses her job, 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.760 but children get raised by her cousin, and finally she's like, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.560 screw it, I don't care, just get me out of here, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.320 and she agrees to get out plead guilty, says fine, 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.800 I lied, and then she says a trial that Dwayne 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.840 was not there when she left, and yes she got 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.240 a phone call, but it was not from her house. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.240 And really she is the most pivotal witness because we 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.080 talked to jurors. So really her testimony was fabricated and 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.920 manufactured as a result of pressure from the grand jury 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.560 and pressure from Dan Rizzo. And that happened with not 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.760 only her, but another witness, Shrowanda Simon. The grand jury 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:58.400 process in Texas was built broken. Houston impaneled grand jurors 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.199 by what's called the Pickapel grand jury system. Pick a 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.720 pal that something more fun than grand jury, but here 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.720 it is a judge would appoint a commissioner, usually a 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.720 donor or a friend. That friend would go get their 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.080 friends and they'd go to the grand jury together. And 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.679 it was typically older white folks sitting in judgment of 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.720 minorities in one of the most diverse cities in the country. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.800 And the fourth person of the grand jury and a 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.160 police officer shooting investigation was himself a police officer. That 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.439 is the system. The ericadoct reefoundering, and so she testifies 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.320 against them. Miss Simon testifies against them, and Glassfeid and 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.240 that's it. That puts an innocent good man on death row. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.240 Yeah, and it allows at least one of the actual 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.600 perpetrators to get off light, as well as the third 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.760 actual perpetrator escaping justice. 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.839 Entirely that man. We did a thorough investigation of who 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.240 we believe the third person to be. We go to 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.719 the DA and we say, here's the guy who we 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.800 believe it to be. We'd lay it out chapter and verse, 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:01.280 and I said, investigate this guy, swabs DNA, go interrogate him, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.880 do something they didn't. He was in jail for a 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.280 armed robbery. This man gets out and murders someone in 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.760 a drug deal. Gone back, now, So do you talk 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.360 about public safety? The cascade of wrongs here led to 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.200 that man who was murdered by this man. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:24.200 So, Dwayne, you lived through this already totally insane tornado 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.520 of bullshit, but you weren't being represented by Brian yet. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.800 And while awaiting trial in Harris County jail, your attorney, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.280 Loretta Muldro came to you with a deal. Not much 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.320 of a deal though, forty years in prison in exchange 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.040 for a guilty plea, which is suspect to begin with 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.120 in a case in which a police officer had been killed. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.360 But that's beside the point, because even though she advised 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.440 you to take the deal, you stood your ground. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.520 Yes, Miss Loretta Modro, she told me to take the deals. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.680 You were like, you've been in here a year, you'll 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.079 do forty years, you'll come home off parole and all that. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.160 I'm like, I didn't do this crime. It would you 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.120 still sign And she said yes? And I told her 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.320 if you didn't do it, so he could go sign 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:10.760 the papers and you could do the time, because I 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:11.680 wasn't finna do it. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:12.640 Good for you. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.240 And yeah, if they really thought that he murdered a 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:19.360 police officer, nobody's offering you anything that allows you to 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:24.520 ever go free again. So there was some undercurrent to 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.880 that offer right there. And we know it, and you 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:28.880 know it, and I know it, and they knew it. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.520 But you did the right thing. Now it comes to 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:32.080 the trial. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.400 And again when I say the whole system broke on Dwayne, 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:40.120 I don't just mean the prosecution, police work, the investigation, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.480 the grand jury which was corrupt. I'm talking about everything. 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.000 He didn't have money to hire an attorney, and there 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:48.760 is now, but at the time there was no public 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.839 federal system, so it was private lawyers willing to take 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.440 the case on a reduced fee, and LORDA. Mouldro took 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.000 the case. Dwayne tells her the alibi, and she does 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.920 not issue a subpoena to the phone company. And I'd 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.640 asked her later when I got involved. I was like, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.200 why didn't you Why didn't you ask for that? And 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.720 she's like, I didn't think they'd have them, and I 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.720 was like, a man's life stands at the bounce. She said, well, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.280 I used to work there and I didn't think they 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.360 kept landline phone records. That's the distinction she made, and 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.120 that's where he made the phone call from. And that's 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.480 really critical Jason, because he was the landline. He was 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.120 there at the house, could not have been at the 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.280 crime scene, and he needed a superman cake to get there. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.679 So then she presents that defense. When we talked to 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.640 the jurors, they were like, but where's the evidence of 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.280 the phone call? And so she could not prove that 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.600 he made the phone call and didn't put a single 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.800 piece of evidence in for his case, there was a 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.920 critical alibi witness, Reginald Jones who lived with Erica and Dwayne, 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.720 who was there who saw him come down the stairs, 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.280 you know, at a certain time, which would have given 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:55.920 created to the fact that he was sleeping, was actually 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.480 asleep there in his murder. Maybe she didn't call him, 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.280 she didn't try to speak to the phone record, and 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.160 he gets found guilty to nobody's surprise. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.960 This episode is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.720 AIG is a leading global insurance company, and for over 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.600 a decade, the AIG pro Bono Program has provided thousands 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.680 of hours of free legal services and other support to 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.240 nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.000 program added criminal and social justice reform as a key 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.480 pillar of its mission. This episode is brought to you 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.840 by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community dedicated 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.280 to helping people improve their lives. For more than twenty years, 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.480 Stand Together and its partners have been on the front 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.400 lines of criminal justice reform. By empowering people to take action, 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.080 supporting nonprofits, and working with businesses, Stand Together tackles the 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.240 root causes of problems in our community and empowers those 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.320 closest to the problems to drive solutions. Solutions like reducing 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.400 unjust prison sentences through the First Step Act, empowering community 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.640 based programs and help people re enter society, and now 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.400 working to bridge divides in our communities. To learn how 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.480 you may get involved, visit Standtogether dot org, slash Conviction. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.480 The Innsis files on Netflix covers Dwayne's case, so you 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.000 can get a deeper look there as well. You can 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.960 check out the whole story in Brian Stolars's amazing book 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:44.560 Grace and Justice on Death Row. Now, Dwayne, you're convicted 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.920 and sentenced to death row, can you tell us about 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.120 what your initial experience was like in that hell hole? 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.360 Oh? Man? When I got there, first thing they said 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.840 it was getting the drisk but naked. It was like 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.200 that was just shocked, I guess. And I was like, man, 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.640 I give my naked go see everybody and the doctors 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.080 and all this. And when they put you in the sale, man, 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:15.280 it's like it's it's unreal. Seven footstep sideways and thirteen 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.680 forward and I'm six two and I guess my home 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.960 is another two and a half foot tall. I guess 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.080 long and that was the ceiling I can put my 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.720 palm on my hand on the ceiling, and I stayed 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.040 there twenty three hours a day. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.520 You could put your palm on the ceiling. So this 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.160 is almost like a living tomb that they put you 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:38.560 in basically. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.840 Right, I would say this roof is maybe eight foot tall. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.800 I guess if that nine foot tall, and you get 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.280 fit through the slots to use the door. It's just 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.400 it's not right. That sale is not designed for any 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.000 man to be in that long term. It misses with 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.280 your mind. And I thank the Lord that I didn't 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.360 come back out crazy or nothing, because I did see 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.680 some people just lose it in there. It's not right 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:06.160 at all. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:07.240 Now. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.920 I know that they had a suicide on that throw 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.800 this week in Texas, and I imagine you probably saw 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.280 your share of that as well, because you're exactly right. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.480 I mean, that is no place to put any human being. 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.240 When they first put me in a cell, I didn't 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.640 have anything, no picture, no letter, no address to write. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.399 Anybody had nothing. The only address I had was my 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.520 grandmother address, and that's because I remembered it by heart. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.040 No phone calls. You had to put in a request 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.320 for a phone call, and they would take thirty days 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.680 or or longer to even get it. It was man. 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.600 The sale was just empty. It was cold, and it 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.960 was nothing. They didn't even bring me a bunk and 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.760 until I want to say, the next day or the 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.919 day after that, and only way I started getting something 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.439 it was a guy we called him fifty to fifty. 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.920 That was the first person that gave me a coffee cup, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.800 a noodle, eat anything, soap, anything. It took me a 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.760 good little while to adapt. I guess you could. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.080 Say that's twenty three hours a day during the week, 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:09.720 twenty four on the weekends. Where would you go for 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:10.600 the extra hour during the. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.440 Day, either to the wreck yard or to the barricade? 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.600 What I call it because the all that you can 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.800 do is look up. We got twenty foot walls all 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:24.440 the way around you and it's no bigger than the cell. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.040 Right, So you go to an outdoor cell basically one 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.200 hour a day. 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.040 No twice a week, three days in the day room, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:36.240 and you got two days outside. Got to get button naked. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.360 Anytime you leave the cell, I'm going back to the cell. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.480 I used to call it my favorite part of the day, 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:42.640 just to make the guards mad. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.360 We call it the baby part of the day. 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.440 Because why just to make the guards mad? 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:52.200 Why would you make them mad? 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.600 They got to sit there and look at you lift 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.000 your pleanis up and a lot. They don't want to 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.280 look at that. So I will say, hey, it's time 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.440 to get stripped out of the favorite part of the day. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.080 I say that. They would look at me in my 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.520 face like, man, he's crazy. 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.520 Well, you took a dehumanizing part of it and made 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.480 it humorous, which shows your grace and your your inner piece. 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.520 Okay, so how did you find out that Brian was 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:18.560 going to take your case? 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.720 When I first met Brian and he was talking to that, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.520 I was like, relig just letting me go out one 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.760 year into the other because I really didn't trust him, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.760 because I thought he was gonna be like Loretta Modroe 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.840 and Robert Mordre and you know, talk good but don't 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.720 follow through with it. But it took me three years 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.280 to trust him, and he stayed at it. So he 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.080 was consistent with it, and I thank you for that. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.159 He kept fighting for what he was believed in and 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:44.680 I love him for that for real. 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.280 And Brian, he had every right to be skeptical. He 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.959 had been let down or screwed. Really by everyone. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.160 Yeah, you know, I can understand why he wouldn't trust 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.000 me because of how he had been wronged by his 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.720 child lawyer. And he actually even had a second lawyer 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.280 who was his direct appeal lawyer, who also didn't do 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.080 you know, great job for him. So I was his 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.080 It's called habeas corpus lawyer, which is for the non 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.760 lawyers on this It's just it's anything else you could 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.800 find about the case, like it usually it's for DNA 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.520 and other new evidence. And it took a number of 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.800 times of me going back down there and really not 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.239 talking about the case, and I showed interest in who 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.800 he was. One of the only beautiful things about going 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.240 to meet him was it was all all behind glass 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.280 on phones. I could bring twenty dollars with the vending 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.800 machine quarters to buy him whatever he wanted for food, 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.760 because the food there obviously is terrible, and like it 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.680