Speaker 1: High Gang. My name is David Keckner. I'm Todd Packer
Speaker 1: from the Office the pac Man. What's up, my nerds? Well,
Speaker 1: hello again, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Office
Speaker 1: Deep Dive. Buckle up, It's gonna be a bumpy ride today,
Speaker 1: that's all I'll tell you. I am, as always, your host,
Speaker 1: Brian baum Gartner, and I've got some exciting news. As
Speaker 1: you know, I am soon going to be transitioning into
Speaker 1: my new podcast, Off the Beat, which is going to
Speaker 1: take what we do here at the Office Deep Dive
Speaker 1: and expand it to more of your favorite guests and shows.
Speaker 1: So we will still be talking to folks associated with
Speaker 1: the Office, but so much more. And so today you're
Speaker 1: gonna get a little sneak peek of what you can
Speaker 1: expect in Off the Beat as we bring in a
Speaker 1: very special guest, one of my good friends and one
Speaker 1: of the funniest guys that I know, David Keckner. Now
Speaker 1: you may know him as Todd Packer from the Office,
Speaker 1: the pac Man himself. But today we're gonna go deep,
Speaker 1: that's what she said. We're gonna go into his full career,
Speaker 1: starting with his early days at Second City and Improv
Speaker 1: Olympic to SNL, where he got his start alongside Will Ferrell,
Speaker 1: his move out to l A, which led to his
Speaker 1: big break as champ Kind on Anchorman, and well the
Speaker 1: longstanding friendship he's had with both Steve Carrell and Nancy
Speaker 1: Walls Correll, which is how he landed his guest starring
Speaker 1: role on the Office as the man we all understandably
Speaker 1: love to hate. So let's dive in right now. The
Speaker 1: man who brought everyone in the old at the Office
Speaker 1: down is here today to lift us up. David Keckner. Everybody,
Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and squeaker, cooking at every month left over from
Speaker 1: the nabby. Hey, well, what do I see but doubleb
Speaker 1: He's looking at me. How are you, buddy? Always I'm great.
Speaker 1: Always with the hat I need I need lessons from
Speaker 1: you in hat wear. Well, you know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: the sun for me. I'm fair. Yeah, So for me,
Speaker 1: it's it's more like, um, it's not necessarily fashioned. It's
Speaker 1: a necessity of I gotta keep the sun off. No,
Speaker 1: but I do that. But I just wear baseball hats
Speaker 1: and I go into hat stores to try to find
Speaker 1: something just a little bit more fashionable. I can't. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's my head shape or something. See how
Speaker 1: I have a small head too, so um, but it's
Speaker 1: really Brian, I gotta say, I've always thought this. It's
Speaker 1: all a decision about I can wear that. Really, I
Speaker 1: just need to have confidence. That's that's what I think.
Speaker 1: You just go yep, I can wear that, and then
Speaker 1: you do because you can wear for for us, it's
Speaker 1: the larger forehead, the superior forehead that we have. But
Speaker 1: it's for me it's the ears I gotta watch out for,
Speaker 1: you know, yah, because the ball cap doesn't do those.
Speaker 1: So baby, do you sunscreen? I do, sure, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't religiously sunscreen, so I gotta that's my This
Speaker 1: is the lazy sunscreen for me, lazy sunscreen, but fast
Speaker 1: in a ball way more fashionable as well. Well. Thank
Speaker 1: you for saying so. And you're right, Yeah, I am right.
Speaker 1: I'm right, Dave. You are one of the funniest people
Speaker 1: I've ever met. Um that that almost goes with without sad.
Speaker 1: Let's stop there. That was the episode and I am
Speaker 1: now fully stated I want to go back with you
Speaker 1: because there's a lot about your life that I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know obviously, Well we'll talk about the chiefs later
Speaker 1: on in Kansas City. But you were born in Tipton, Missouri,
Speaker 1: and I assume your family was in in farming, right
Speaker 1: your dad manufactured chicken turkey coops. Turkey coops. I always
Speaker 1: start with saying he manufactured livestock trailers, so then people
Speaker 1: get at least a vision of it's on a trailer.
Speaker 1: Then I add coops to it so they know it's
Speaker 1: on a trailer. Because every time I say it, people go, oh,
Speaker 1: for like something in your backyard, Like, well, um, that's condescending,
Speaker 1: and you're also ignorant and not interested because it seems
Speaker 1: to me like when they go over your backyard, I've
Speaker 1: never seen a turkey coop in someone's backyard. I've seen
Speaker 1: chicken coops, but to me, like, oh, like your backyard, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: so you don't want to hear the rest of the story,
Speaker 1: That's what I take away from it. Um, so, no,
Speaker 1: they were. There were forty foot trailers and uh large
Speaker 1: racks that are built for transferring turkeys from the farm
Speaker 1: to the processing plant, so from their home to uh
Speaker 1: their death. Yes, theirs. So my dad as a manufactur
Speaker 1: he built a lot of different other farm influments like hey,
Speaker 1: bail forks, pharaohing crates, which is another thing that's too
Speaker 1: long to get into, gas barrel stands, picnic table frames.
Speaker 1: But the biggest part of the business was turkey coops.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so from Tipton it's right dead center Missouri
Speaker 1: and from north southeast west it's like right in the
Speaker 1: middle on Highway fifty between Jefferson City, the State cap
Speaker 1: Role and Saidelia, which is where the Missouri State Fair
Speaker 1: was held every year. That is a very special place
Speaker 1: in my heart. And so yeah, that's where I grew up.
Speaker 1: Town to two thousand people. Wow, And now, when did
Speaker 1: you start thinking about being a performer? And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna use the word performer generally now because
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that a little bit later,
Speaker 1: about what you consider yourself. But when did you start thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: this may be something that I want to do. Well,
Speaker 1: I've said this before. I'm one of six kids, and
Speaker 1: so when I was ten, I have a distinct memory
Speaker 1: of walking around the west side of my house by
Speaker 1: myself being very contemplative and thinking I gotta get out
Speaker 1: of here. I have to. I have to live in
Speaker 1: a city. I I don't know where I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss my family and friends, but I know
Speaker 1: I've got to go. And then when I was thirteen,
Speaker 1: was the first year for Saturday at Live, and I
Speaker 1: knew my parents wouldn't let me watch it because they
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me watch like laugh In or a lot
Speaker 1: of shows, you know, like A Room two twenty two
Speaker 1: or stuff like that was too racy. But they leased
Speaker 1: to go out dancing every weekend to the local Farmers
Speaker 1: and Sportsmen's Club, and I had to babysit my three
Speaker 1: younger siblings, and I knew they were gonna be there,
Speaker 1: so I didn't say anything. I didn't ask permission because
Speaker 1: I knew they would have said no, So I didn't
Speaker 1: say anything so I didn't have to lie. I just
Speaker 1: wouldn't mention it because I don't know if you remember,
Speaker 1: you're a little bit younger than me, but they would do.
Speaker 1: They were doing some live commercials promoting Saturday Life. I
Speaker 1: was like, this is brand news. This is a live show,
Speaker 1: and it's comedy. It looks like something that I've never
Speaker 1: seen before and so my parents were gone and so
Speaker 1: sn L let's see it aired at ten thirty in
Speaker 1: the Midwest, and I remember watching it, and through that
Speaker 1: first year, I was like, I want to do that.
Speaker 1: I want to be on that show. Now. Then you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't tell people because you're in a small town.
Speaker 1: Small small towns don't really embrace dreams. And again, this
Speaker 1: is before the internet. So I had no I the
Speaker 1: that's the title of your new book. Yeah, I like
Speaker 1: you said new book, as if I've written many. Uh,
Speaker 1: But so that was in my head and I didn't
Speaker 1: tell people. I didn't tell anyone. And again, there's no
Speaker 1: performance opportunity or stage opportunity in Tipton. None except once
Speaker 1: a year there was the high school play, and you
Speaker 1: couldn't do that into your junior so there was no opportunity.
Speaker 1: This is pre internet. There's not a ton of books.
Speaker 1: I'd never met an actor. I didn't know how it worked.
Speaker 1: So that's that's that's when I knew, though. You just
Speaker 1: you've watched SNL and you were like, I want to
Speaker 1: do that, that's what I want to do. Yeow. So
Speaker 1: what was your process then, of of leaving Tipton. I
Speaker 1: know you went to Chicago. How did you decide that
Speaker 1: was the place or go about getting there? Well, I
Speaker 1: went to college first, and I was a political science major. Again,
Speaker 1: that's surprising to me. That's the most surprising thing you've
Speaker 1: so far. Really, that's funny. The thing was. The thing
Speaker 1: is because I'm very uh, I didn't even have a
Speaker 1: thought that I should be a theater major. That didn't
Speaker 1: come up. I thought, you go to college for something
Speaker 1: that is dedicated to a pursuit a career, a profession.
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, I'm going to be in politics.
Speaker 1: And I really, looking back on it, I think that
Speaker 1: was my desire to seek a stage. But I also
Speaker 1: had this altruistic streak where I thought a politician their
Speaker 1: job was to help people. So I did that for
Speaker 1: three years, and then I started realizing that this isn't
Speaker 1: no one's talking about the you know, how you use
Speaker 1: power or or the process or politics to really help people.
Speaker 1: It was just about this machinations of things going on.
Speaker 1: The third year was kind of getting the more dry
Speaker 1: aspects of politics and the administrative end of it, and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, well, shoot, I've met so many bright
Speaker 1: people in this pursuit and I thought, well, the people
Speaker 1: in politics are either from a political family, or they
Speaker 1: are very wealthy, or they're the smartest person in any
Speaker 1: room they walk into. And I was none of those things.
Speaker 1: So I just quit going to my classes because I
Speaker 1: remember thinking, I don't want to be a lawyer. I
Speaker 1: don't want to just work for a senator, and that
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like these people are really committed to just
Speaker 1: helping people. So I quit going to all my classes.
Speaker 1: So as you know, if that happens, you're what they
Speaker 1: call academically ineligible, which is my way of punting. It
Speaker 1: really was. And my dad said, well, Dave, I don't
Speaker 1: know what you want to do, but I don't think
Speaker 1: you want to go to school. And for me that
Speaker 1: was a relief. I didn't there was no punishment, but
Speaker 1: for him as a relief because it's like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: kid's off my doll I don't. So he sold me
Speaker 1: the car I was driving. It was a god, what
Speaker 1: year was that thing? It was a nineteen probably a
Speaker 1: nineteen seven D seven Plymouth Grand Fury. Uh. He sold
Speaker 1: me that car for four hundred dollars, and then I
Speaker 1: was there in Clymie, Missouri. I was working three different
Speaker 1: jobs just to make it, you know, paying for your
Speaker 1: rent and all that stuff. And then a buddy of
Speaker 1: mine and I. By this point, Brian, I had read
Speaker 1: a bunch of books about Saturday Live, like there's a
Speaker 1: smaller book called Backstage at Saturday Night Live. Then I
Speaker 1: was starting to read books about Second City, and I'd
Speaker 1: read the book about John Belushi Wired, and everything that
Speaker 1: kept coming up was like, oh, they're all from a
Speaker 1: Second City. So a buddy of mine and I we
Speaker 1: drove up to Chicago and we saw a show at
Speaker 1: Second City and I was like, oh my god, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, sitting there in the whole time's
Speaker 1: like God, this is what I want, This is what
Speaker 1: I want. And then on the way out, so actually
Speaker 1: on that second level, they're the big, big room at
Speaker 1: Second City. Go downstairs and there's a big poster and
Speaker 1: it was advertising classes. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's oh that's how that's how they do it. And
Speaker 1: I had a match book and a golf pencil, because
Speaker 1: back then you would fill out a piece of paper
Speaker 1: for your mainly address. They wanted people's just like now
Speaker 1: they want your information. And so I surreptitiously wrote down
Speaker 1: the number for classes on that matchbook. Because I'm from Tipton,
Speaker 1: I expected someone to tap on my shoulder and say,
Speaker 1: what are you writing that down for? You can't do that.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of narrative you come from a small town,
Speaker 1: like you don't, don't you have? You can't do that.
Speaker 1: And so then I went back to Columbia, Missouri, and
Speaker 1: I called and I found out that they taught very
Speaker 1: different levels of classes. And then I saved my money
Speaker 1: so that summer I came up and took a two
Speaker 1: week concentrated course for the what was called Players Workshop.
Speaker 1: And then I went home and like, that's it, I'm
Speaker 1: doing this. Went home. It took another year to save
Speaker 1: money and come back. And then I moved to Chicago
Speaker 1: when I was twenty four. Wow, and and did you
Speaker 1: because I know you worked at Improv Olympic as well,
Speaker 1: were you doing both of those things simultaneously or Once
Speaker 1: I got to town, I made the mistake of thinking
Speaker 1: I had to be in restaurant management to uh to
Speaker 1: afford living in Chicago, which I didn't realize. I made
Speaker 1: less money there than I would have if I was
Speaker 1: waiting tables. It took six months there so I just
Speaker 1: kept all these things that happened happened for a reason,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't move to Chicago to l twenty four
Speaker 1: and I didn't start right away. And then when I
Speaker 1: was ready to start and I quit working as a
Speaker 1: restaurant manager, I got a job waiting tables and I
Speaker 1: opened up the Chicago Tribune. In the Sunday section had
Speaker 1: an article about Dell Close and Sharna helping from the
Speaker 1: Improv Olympic and about what they were doing, and they
Speaker 1: were going to have their own television show, and I like,
Speaker 1: this is the place to go. So I started first
Speaker 1: at the Improv Olympic, which was a blessing, Like all
Speaker 1: these things lined up and sent me to the right
Speaker 1: direction every time. And it was a delay in a sense,
Speaker 1: but it is the right time because at that point,
Speaker 1: all these other people were moving to town and starting classes,
Speaker 1: and they had all been fans of Saray life the
Speaker 1: same relative age that I had been. And we're all
Speaker 1: happened to be there, but everybody one to be good.
Speaker 1: It wasn't about being famous or successful. Is about you
Speaker 1: wanted to go there and do this thing and create that,
Speaker 1: then find a way to do that magic you had
Speaker 1: been witnessing and be part of that type of thing,
Speaker 1: and it just so happens. So I started the Probablympic first,
Speaker 1: and then I started taking classes at Second City simultaneously,
Speaker 1: so I was taken both classes. So about that time
Speaker 1: I was probably doing at least four nights of classes
Speaker 1: a week, and then within a year then I would
Speaker 1: be doing four nights of classes and or performance every
Speaker 1: week for my entire time in Chicago. And then years
Speaker 1: later you read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and
Speaker 1: they talked about the ten thousand hours theory and I
Speaker 1: looked back like, oh wow, I did it. I put
Speaker 1: that time in and that's the thing, right. So that's
Speaker 1: how that's how it happened. And for people who don't
Speaker 1: know Dell Close, this is a legendary comedy teacher in
Speaker 1: Chicago who was there at the same time with you. Well,
Speaker 1: when I was there, Chris far and I started. Actually
Speaker 1: Chris Farley started I think six months later than me,
Speaker 1: but Chris Farley, Pat Finn, Pete Hallney, Neil Flynn, Mike Coleman. Then,
Speaker 1: uh so this is at Second City that it's Dave Razowski,
Speaker 1: Dave Pasquasy, a lot of these people are legends that
Speaker 1: you might not be household names, but trust me, these
Speaker 1: are legendary and prop performers. Timmadows was there, Joel Murray
Speaker 1: was there, and then over the Second City side at
Speaker 1: the same time was Stephen Colbert, Steve Carrell, Richard Kind
Speaker 1: had Jeff left town. But the list of the people
Speaker 1: that I ended up working with in Chicago is a
Speaker 1: who's who of people who eventually became amazing. So then
Speaker 1: just behind me was Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts,
Speaker 1: Matt Walsh, Tina Faye, Rachel Dratch, Ratio Sayings, Adam McKay,
Speaker 1: and other other names. Now these are writers John Glazer,
Speaker 1: Brian McCann, Bryan Stack, Vandorff. The list goes on and on,
Speaker 1: and Tommy, Andy Richter. It just goes on, and you
Speaker 1: realize that this was just happened to be an amazing time.
Speaker 1: And before I left town, I got Saturday Live after
Speaker 1: a couple of years, after many years working there. But
Speaker 1: um I met with a guy named Bernie Sillens is
Speaker 1: one of the persons that started Second City Night, and
Speaker 1: he and I had lunch and he said he had
Speaker 1: never seen such a confluence of talent as had been
Speaker 1: there in this past ten years, and I look at
Speaker 1: it now and like that has never happened again, Like
Speaker 1: this group of people that all came through at this
Speaker 1: particular time in history, and all of them made a
Speaker 1: big impact in show business or in media. I guess, well,
Speaker 1: you were there. I know Nancy Walls was also there. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention. Nancy and I were on Saturday
Speaker 1: Live together. Nancy Nancy Corrells been dating. Yeah, she'd been
Speaker 1: dating Steve Carrell. So Nancy and I actually were in
Speaker 1: the same company at Second City and then we both
Speaker 1: got hired on Saturday at Live at the same time,
Speaker 1: and then we both got let go from Saturday Night
Speaker 1: Live at the same time. Nancy and Steve got married
Speaker 1: this summer, she and I got hired, and uh, I
Speaker 1: was at their wedding and we were out there, you know,
Speaker 1: and Steve audition for ESNL. I mean that can be
Speaker 1: to be believed, like they didn't recognize like Steve Carell's specialness. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess I guess had to say thank god because
Speaker 1: then I probably wouldn't have gotten hired. But so, yeah,
Speaker 1: they got married right before we started doing SNL that
Speaker 1: first season, Nancy and I and then I think Steve
Speaker 1: was doing a play. He'd been at Second City for
Speaker 1: a long time and I was a huge fan of
Speaker 1: his back then. And he then went and did a
Speaker 1: play at the Goodman called Picasso at the Lapino Gil
Speaker 1: which was a Step Martin play, and then he ended
Speaker 1: up I think, doing it at a Broadway theater in
Speaker 1: New York, so they were there at the same time.
Speaker 1: Too interesting. I didn't know did he play Einstein? Remember,
Speaker 1: I don't know, never saw the play. Yeah, how arrogant
Speaker 1: is that? I didn't think, oh shit, you know, it's
Speaker 1: one of those things. Back then, I probably would have
Speaker 1: said he's done something stupid, like I'd like to see
Speaker 1: her play in such a way that meant like fuck you,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean that I would have thought,
Speaker 1: you want to kind of see my play. Oh how
Speaker 1: good of you to come down to see my play.
Speaker 1: But you know, you're busy thinking about yourself and doing
Speaker 1: a million other things. But I never did get it.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a chance to see it in Chicago
Speaker 1: and then in New York. I forget when the run was,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I didn't get a chance to see it.
Speaker 1: Were you still at Second City when you auditioned for
Speaker 1: S and L. Yeah? Yeah, so that was why you
Speaker 1: left Second Yeah. That. I always thought to myself, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to go to New York or Los Angeles
Speaker 1: without a job. Like I would see people leave Chicago
Speaker 1: and go to l A. But I always thought to myself,
Speaker 1: go when a job takes you there. And I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough that a job took me away. Yeah. Tell
Speaker 1: me about that audition experience. I've heard so many amazing stories.
Speaker 1: Did you audition for Lauren? Yeah, I tell you, I
Speaker 1: had um It's weird and it sounds arrogant, but I
Speaker 1: knew I was going to get it because when I
Speaker 1: was thirteen, as I told you, I decided I'm going
Speaker 1: to be on that show. And it wasn't a feeling
Speaker 1: of hubris or ego. It was just kind of this knowing, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be on that show. And so when
Speaker 1: I got asked to audition, I kind of heard other
Speaker 1: people had talked and some of the scouts had come through,
Speaker 1: and I knew they really liked me. And I had
Speaker 1: heard from other people that Lauren really thought highly of me.
Speaker 1: So this is before I went out to audition, so
Speaker 1: I really I felt at ease. And so my first audition,
Speaker 1: you had to come in with a an original character,
Speaker 1: and then you had to do a political impression, and
Speaker 1: then you had to do a celebrity impression. So I
Speaker 1: did Pat Buchanan because he's got a grave, gravelly voice
Speaker 1: like I do. Pat Buchanan is this right wing commentator
Speaker 1: on on back then it was CNN because there wasn't
Speaker 1: Fox News yet, but he was a right wing guy
Speaker 1: who was one of the first guys talking about building
Speaker 1: a wall. And then I did Jack Lemon and Jim
Speaker 1: Carey doing a Buddy movie and they were arguing about
Speaker 1: whose trailer was bigger, and Brian I improvised the entire
Speaker 1: thing just off the top of your head. YEP. I
Speaker 1: had some thoughts, you know how you think because I
Speaker 1: was I was at the I OH. There's such a
Speaker 1: purity to improvisation, Like you don't decide what you're doing
Speaker 1: ahead of time. Now that is a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 1: And you never repeat yourself at the I OH, Like
Speaker 1: if you did the same character week after week, people
Speaker 1: look like, what what are you doing? That's kind of
Speaker 1: like cheating. So after the first audition, which I just improvised,
Speaker 1: I wrote the second audition. The second audition, can't remember exactly.
Speaker 1: It may have been just go do your characters, or
Speaker 1: it may have been do the political impression and whatever
Speaker 1: characters you want to do. I remember I didn't have
Speaker 1: to do celebrities anymore, so I think I may have
Speaker 1: done Pat Buchanan again. And then i'd written this little
Speaker 1: piece which is almost a one man show of just characters,
Speaker 1: because I love to do characters back in Chicago too,
Speaker 1: and so I had all these little things I was
Speaker 1: going to do. It is almost like they blended together.
Speaker 1: And it's studio eight h there's no audience and no
Speaker 1: one's laughing, and there's no warmth, and it's a bit cold,
Speaker 1: and there's cameras. Now I didn't know, and thankfully I
Speaker 1: didn't know. The cameras are a live feed. There's people
Speaker 1: all over NBC, all over the building, watching all over
Speaker 1: the building and on the West coast. You don't know
Speaker 1: that you have a very large audience of people. You
Speaker 1: don't know that until later, and thankfully you don't know,
Speaker 1: because that would have probably been more anxiety inducing than
Speaker 1: anything else. But again, that doesn't exist unless you let
Speaker 1: it come into your head. And I had this sense
Speaker 1: of calm and peace that I knew, I knew what
Speaker 1: I was doing, and I in myself, I knew that
Speaker 1: what I was gonna do was gonna be satisfactory to me,
Speaker 1: and that this is what I have, and there was
Speaker 1: no worry to it, and I did it and I
Speaker 1: felt very good about it. I don't remember if there
Speaker 1: was a laugh at all, because no one gives it up.
Speaker 1: And then you wait another week or two, and then
Speaker 1: you get called back again. And you're getting called back
Speaker 1: and they don't tell you to prep or anything like that.
Speaker 1: You're just getting called back for a meeting and you
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. So you go to a
Speaker 1: meeting and it's Lauren Michaels is in there, and Steve
Speaker 1: Higgins was the head writer. And then Lauren talks to you,
Speaker 1: and it's really weird because he talks about this or that.
Speaker 1: He talks about baseball, and I'm like, funk, I don't
Speaker 1: know a thing about baseball. And then in Chicago that summer,
Speaker 1: five people had died from the heat, and for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: that was on my mind because it's just been a
Speaker 1: headline that's talking about that, and I remember Lauren Lawrence
Speaker 1: saying we're done talking about that now, to kind of
Speaker 1: prompt me that okay, either he doesn't want to hear
Speaker 1: about this story or whatever, and so then it goes on,
Speaker 1: I don't know, five ten minutes, and then at some
Speaker 1: point Steve leans Ummer goes congratulations, you're hired. They're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: because you're like, what. It doesn't seem to be structured
Speaker 1: to this meeting, but I do. I think the final
Speaker 1: meeting is just to check out if you're if you've
Speaker 1: got a screw loose, or you're a nut job or something,
Speaker 1: or you're just not ready, if you're too green or something.
Speaker 1: It would be pretty evident at that point. There was
Speaker 1: one guy and I don't know where he was from,
Speaker 1: and I don't know what his name was, but I
Speaker 1: do know that in the previous two auditions everyone thought
Speaker 1: he was British because all he did was speaking of
Speaker 1: British accent, and we're all from America. We don't know
Speaker 1: if it's a real one or not. It seemed fine,
Speaker 1: It did seem I didn't get to know him. That
Speaker 1: seemed a bit presentational to me, but then apparently at
Speaker 1: his meeting it came out like, oh, I'm not really British,
Speaker 1: but he'd always been doing everything. It's like, okay, fella,
Speaker 1: there seems to be a potential problem with you. And
Speaker 1: then he didn't make use. Everyone's like, probably that guy's
Speaker 1: gonna make it, but he was gone. So I think
Speaker 1: that's what that final meeting is, to find out, Hey,
Speaker 1: what do we got here? Now we're just one on one,
Speaker 1: there's no performance. Who are you? So? Yes, Will Farrell
Speaker 1: and I were hired the same day, and then Will
Speaker 1: and I went to a baseball game that night and
Speaker 1: a limo pulls up and myself and Will and Steve
Speaker 1: Higgins sat in the fourth row behind home plate. There
Speaker 1: Laurence seats Born didn't sit with us. He sat with
Speaker 1: Jim Silly, who did all the films, the short films
Speaker 1: about eighteen rolls back and we're like, so we're at
Speaker 1: a game with Lauren. This is how a game with
Speaker 1: Lauren works. And before that, Lauren had mentioned to me, um,
Speaker 1: Dave at the meeting, that's right, Dave. You know this
Speaker 1: is your first time that people see you on television,
Speaker 1: So it's up to you. Do you want to have
Speaker 1: or not. I was like, what And he told me
Speaker 1: all the people that had wigs and all the people
Speaker 1: that had plugs. And I'm not going to tell you,
Speaker 1: but it was a list of people. You're thinking like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see that. I can see. Like, I think
Speaker 1: to myself, like, is he telling me I have to
Speaker 1: get a too pay? Is he telling me I have
Speaker 1: to get hair plugs? I was like, oh, fun, because
Speaker 1: I was thinking there's no way I could ever live
Speaker 1: it down with my buddies from Chicago if I show
Speaker 1: up on TV with hair, because they'd be like, who
Speaker 1: the fuck are you? Or my family would just probably go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is sad. And then I remember later, Lauren, you know,
Speaker 1: because I could I assume he could clearly see I
Speaker 1: was struggling with it. And I remember after the game
Speaker 1: he said, Dave about the hair, fuck, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: to you. You be you like, oh, thank god. So
Speaker 1: that was that I may have been like the first
Speaker 1: bald guy on the show. Maybe not that it matters, right,
Speaker 1: That is interesting. Yeah, so you know that's how it happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of new people with me, as
Speaker 1: me and Will Ferrell and sherryo Terry and Jim Brewer
Speaker 1: and Darryl Hammond and Nancy Walls and Molly Shannon's second year,
Speaker 1: McDonald's third year, Spades fifth year, Tim Meadows fifth year.
Speaker 1: Then Chris Catan came on halfway through the season. God,
Speaker 1: they're there's a whole picture over there. Oh um. Mark
Speaker 1: McKinney's second year. I think that's all of this. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. I love that and I love that you,
Speaker 1: you know, sitting at home in Tipton, said that's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do, and then you did, and then that
Speaker 1: brought you calm later on. Yeah, I tell you, Brian.
Speaker 1: And when I got the show, I already decided my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm not staying. You get a six year contract, and
Speaker 1: I already decided I'm not staying six years because I
Speaker 1: always felt there's some people that stayed too long here
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to be one of them. And
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna be here three years. And whether
Speaker 1: you believe in manifesting things or not. After the first year,
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited back, and I was shocked because I
Speaker 1: had a great first year, but apparently some people on
Speaker 1: the West Coast didn't dig what I was doing, and
Speaker 1: I like that. I'm Irish Catholic, and as a person
Speaker 1: from Second City and a teacher there had once told
Speaker 1: me because he was Irish too, he was you know,
Speaker 1: we Irish, we don't suffer fools, gladly, and I certainly didn't.
Speaker 1: And I had very strong opinions about what should and
Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the show. And I think I was
Speaker 1: pretty loud in my opinions. And no one gave me
Speaker 1: fuck because you know, you're you're not running the show, boy,
Speaker 1: You're on the show. Do anything to get on the show.
Speaker 1: And it had been suggested to me that I do
Speaker 1: this one character as a talk show, and I thought
Speaker 1: that was the dumbest idea that I've heard. And I
Speaker 1: told him that that I realized after I wasn't asked back.
Speaker 1: They weren't asking me, they were telling me do this,
Speaker 1: But they were nice to know, how about this as
Speaker 1: a talk show? And I would say, that's what's wrong
Speaker 1: with this show. We have too many talk shows. We
Speaker 1: need more scenes. No one cares what you think. But
Speaker 1: you know, it was a blessing, I guess, because you know,
Speaker 1: I moved out to l A. It was very fortunate
Speaker 1: to start working right away. I had a development deal
Speaker 1: within three months that I moved out here. So I've
Speaker 1: been very fortunate. That's awesome. I want to mention really quickly.
Speaker 1: I know you did stuff with Conan O'Brien before you
Speaker 1: left New York right a little bit, Lauren Lauren felt bad.
Speaker 1: Lauren did not want to fire me. Lauren wanted to
Speaker 1: keep me. But this the year that I was on
Speaker 1: SNL is the first year that mad TV came on
Speaker 1: the air, and then Howard Stern had a late night
Speaker 1: show so that they had competition in that hour for
Speaker 1: the first time, and so West Coast had a little
Speaker 1: bit more leverage on Lauren. Of course, there's a different
Speaker 1: politics that's going on there, and so they said, we
Speaker 1: want changes, but Lauren wanted to keep me, and an
Speaker 1: effort to keep me, he said, maybe you can become
Speaker 1: a regular player on Conan show, which they didn't have
Speaker 1: that position. So I remember going to someone's birthday party
Speaker 1: and h Conan was there, and I think Lauren had
Speaker 1: mentioned to Conan, you know, why don't you make Kettner
Speaker 1: a regular player on your show? And ConA was just
Speaker 1: kind of like, He's like, I love you, but to
Speaker 1: be honest, that doesn't exist here, and we don't have
Speaker 1: the money. This is pretty early in their show, like
Speaker 1: they didn't have a budget for because every dollars accounted for.
Speaker 1: So if if you had more money for talent, it
Speaker 1: would be you'd get another writer. And so they weren't
Speaker 1: hiring me as a writer. Uh, it would have been
Speaker 1: a great education for me to be a writer, because
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would have had plenty of ideas and
Speaker 1: I sure I probably could have made it work. But
Speaker 1: the the idea of hiring an actor is to come
Speaker 1: on and be on the show, and he kind of
Speaker 1: let me down generally like that doesn't exist you and
Speaker 1: I thought I didn't really want to do that either,
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to stay in the same building.
Speaker 1: Was like, hey, you're back in the minor leagues, in
Speaker 1: the same building, on the same station at the same time,
Speaker 1: but not on the time you want to be there.
Speaker 1: So it was like, yeah, I wasn't fighting for us that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it hurt like hell, man, it hurt like hell, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I moved to l A. Then that next year, that September,
Speaker 1: when you know they're going back to work, I packed
Speaker 1: up all my stuff in a U haul and drove
Speaker 1: out to l A. And when did you meet Gruber? Oh?
Speaker 1: Gruber the first time I met him. He guest wrote
Speaker 1: on the show for two weeks in January of nineties six,
Speaker 1: and I had put Gerald. I got a sketch of
Speaker 1: Gerald Tibbins on the air, and he always liked that character.
Speaker 1: And Dave Dave's from uh He had spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in Iowa. So he's from Midwest, and so
Speaker 1: am I. Dave Gruber Allen is a legendary comedy figure,
Speaker 1: and he and I eventually did this show called The
Speaker 1: Naked Trucker and T Bones, and so he and I
Speaker 1: both got cast in this movie called Dill Scallion, directed
Speaker 1: by Jordan Brady who has now become a huge commercial director.
Speaker 1: And so I got cast in that and groupers in
Speaker 1: the show too. And he was doing a late night
Speaker 1: show at Largo. The old Largo was a smaller club.
Speaker 1: Now it's his big theater in in l A, or
Speaker 1: mid midsize theater in l A where they do a
Speaker 1: lot of comedy. And he said, Hey, I'm doing the
Speaker 1: show called The Naked Truckers. Shows you come by and
Speaker 1: do a guest spot as your t Bones character. So
Speaker 1: after we've wrapped the film, I came by and I
Speaker 1: did I think ten minutes of his show, and he
Speaker 1: did like forty minutes, and then he invited me back
Speaker 1: the next week, and I think I did fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: and then the same thing the next week, and then
Speaker 1: I said, hey, why didn't I just stay up for
Speaker 1: the whole show because it was working and he and
Speaker 1: I were just improvising that this it was a really
Speaker 1: weird thing. So the Naked Trucker sings songs about being
Speaker 1: on the road and they're just really absurd comedy songs,
Speaker 1: and he would tell stories and then here I come
Speaker 1: with this character that's a ne'er do weel Carney slash
Speaker 1: hobo who can quote Chaucer and no him Chomsky. So
Speaker 1: he's kind of like an intellectual Carny. And so the
Speaker 1: chemistry was just perfect and the partnership was just incredible,
Speaker 1: and so he and I together was just magic, and
Speaker 1: we did that show for seven years in l A
Speaker 1: and I I'd say, to this day it is probably
Speaker 1: one of my my fondest memories of performing ever, because man,
Speaker 1: it was just fantastic and the greatest compliment I had
Speaker 1: ever heard in doing that show so live. Then we
Speaker 1: became a headliner there twice a month. But the greatest
Speaker 1: compliment I ever got was from some writers, because a
Speaker 1: lot of Hollywood writers would come to the show, like
Speaker 1: every Hollywood person came to the show, and some Hollywood
Speaker 1: writers had said, um, we come to this show for
Speaker 1: inspiration to realize that great comedy can still be done
Speaker 1: in this town. I was like, wow, I didn't you know.
Speaker 1: I've never been a guy that's big on seeking advantage
Speaker 1: or trying to not really understanding how to leverage what
Speaker 1: I have into something bigger. I just always assumed something
Speaker 1: bigger and the right thing is going to come along.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. You've really got to be
Speaker 1: very specific and determined about exactly what you want to
Speaker 1: turn this thing into. And um, it turned into a
Speaker 1: very compromised show on Comedy Central in one season, and
Speaker 1: it's there and I haven't looked at it in years.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great stuff we had, but it's
Speaker 1: really confusing because the success Comedy Central had in comedy
Speaker 1: shows was Chappelle and Mencia, and that the format for
Speaker 1: that was the comic comes out and talks and then
Speaker 1: throws to a sketch. We weren't a sketch duo, and
Speaker 1: so the format they forced us into was counterintuitive to
Speaker 1: what we should have been doing. But I didn't have
Speaker 1: the right people around me to be able to force
Speaker 1: Comedy Central's hand and say no, no no, we're gonna do
Speaker 1: the show that we want to do, and so I
Speaker 1: just went along with it, and you know, it was great,
Speaker 1: we had our own show. I've got to dig through
Speaker 1: all the tapes and start putting that stuff online and
Speaker 1: see what it was. Maybe it was one of those
Speaker 1: things like probably a little bit ahead of his time,
Speaker 1: and I don't say that ego wise. It was just
Speaker 1: kind of confusing for people. And they promoted it. I said,
Speaker 1: don't you ever promote this is blue collar comedy, because
Speaker 1: it's not. That's not the crowd for this. I said,
Speaker 1: we're more of a daily show crowd. Um. And so
Speaker 1: they came up and started calling it roadhouse comedy, like
Speaker 1: what we didn't call it. We call a comedy, but
Speaker 1: you know, like what the fuck is roadhouse comedy? Like
Speaker 1: it's you know, they would say it's smart dumb, Like,
Speaker 1: don't fucking ever say dumb when you're referring to my
Speaker 1: comedy because it tells me that you don't get it
Speaker 1: at all anyway. Is that network? You're still in there?
Speaker 1: And I mean that in all seriousness, good god whatever.
Speaker 1: I think that's shitty because that's ego based. But they
Speaker 1: made a lot of mistakes, and my mistake was letting
Speaker 1: them do it right. What what would you consider yourself?
Speaker 1: Are you? And I brought this up earlier, are you
Speaker 1: a stand up are you? Are you an improviser? Are
Speaker 1: you an actor? I know you're all you do all
Speaker 1: of those things. How do you view yourself? And it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, it's just curious. But from between you
Speaker 1: and me is like we we do delineate between those
Speaker 1: types of things. But you said a performer, and I
Speaker 1: think that's probably the closest thing that's a catch all
Speaker 1: for what I am. I love performing, whether it's with
Speaker 1: just two people or a thousand, So there's a performance.
Speaker 1: So I guess the other part would be I'm an entertainer.
Speaker 1: So I didn't do stand up until I had my
Speaker 1: fifth child because at that point it's like I can
Speaker 1: never have a down month, Like I can't rely on
Speaker 1: anybody else to bring income, and if you're a stand up,
Speaker 1: you do have some independence, like you can just go
Speaker 1: out and get it. That's the best part. And the
Speaker 1: other thing is at this point in my career, I
Speaker 1: could start as a headliner, which is a bit of
Speaker 1: a cheap because you know, in the stand up world
Speaker 1: you pay your dues, but I had paid my dues
Speaker 1: on other stages, and I've never stopped performing live, So
Speaker 1: I've always performed live in Chicago, always performed in l
Speaker 1: A all the time. So I would do the theake
Speaker 1: a Trucker show or else. I would do sketch character
Speaker 1: pieces on stand up shows because there's a variety of
Speaker 1: entertainment being done, all kinds of alternative rooms, so it's
Speaker 1: always a place to go perform live. So when I
Speaker 1: started doing stand up was kind of like me doing
Speaker 1: a one man show because I would do character pieces.
Speaker 1: In fact, for hour, I had like I had Brian,
Speaker 1: I had changes on stage in comedy clubs, and I
Speaker 1: think people are wanting, like, what the fuck is going
Speaker 1: on here? Um because it's not it's not the natural
Speaker 1: rhythm that they're used to, like bought it up, bout
Speaker 1: it up, Bob, and there's this guy let this added
Speaker 1: to the entire show by anyway. So that was very interesting.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, to me, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: doing an hour of entertainment. You call it stand up,
Speaker 1: call it whatever you want. The stand up aspect is
Speaker 1: one person in front of a microphone standing up there.
Speaker 1: That's it. So you can't tell me, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing it the way you do it. Like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it the way I do it, and I'm getting
Speaker 1: the same result. That audience full of people is laughing.
Speaker 1: So I think I think what you said performers correct,
Speaker 1: because there's performance when you're acting, and there's performance we
Speaker 1: are doing stand up or your sketch or whatever. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: when did you meet Greg Daniels. I met Greg Daniels
Speaker 1: the first time when I was writing a pilot with
Speaker 1: a writer from King of the Hill, John Callier, Jesus
Speaker 1: christ Kicker, John Collier, amazing man, amazing writer. So we
Speaker 1: wrote a pilot for the for the Gerald character, this
Speaker 1: is before the Naked Trucker, and it was really good,
Speaker 1: but they didn't understand it at all. They liked it,
Speaker 1: but it never went to pilots. So we wrote the
Speaker 1: script and so Greg would come around then say I
Speaker 1: was a friend of Norm his cock from Saray Live.
Speaker 1: He was a writer on Saraday Live Canadian right who's
Speaker 1: head writer for Kids in the Hall? And so I
Speaker 1: wanted Norm to do it, but Norm was too busy
Speaker 1: because he was righting the King of the Hill and
Speaker 1: doing something else. And then John and I wrote the pilot.
Speaker 1: He was He was fantastic. But anyway, that's when I
Speaker 1: met Greg for the first time, and Norm and I
Speaker 1: were friends. And then Norm and I wrote a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff together, were several scripts for two movie scripts
Speaker 1: for Gerald. They got close and then didn't get made.
Speaker 1: And then Norm was one of the head writers for
Speaker 1: the Naked Trigger and TBone show on Comedy Central. So,
Speaker 1: but that's how I met Greg. Yeah. Yeah, So the
Speaker 1: story goes, you're shooting snakes on a plane in Canada,
Speaker 1: in Canada, and you you get a call about coming
Speaker 1: on and appearing on this television show, The Office. I had.
Speaker 1: I had auditioned. You had auditioned for Michael Scott. But
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of the British Office. And
Speaker 1: as you remember, the pilot episode for the American Office
Speaker 1: borrowed heavily from the pilot episode of the British Office,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get Ricky's your Vay's rhythms out of
Speaker 1: my head. I couldn't audition because I was like, well,
Speaker 1: here's how he says it. How else would anyone say it?
Speaker 1: Because the way he does it's perfect. So I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I auditioned, but it was neither here nor there because
Speaker 1: I didn't have a take other than what he did.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because you know, Steve didn't know Ricky
Speaker 1: Gervais's version of the office, so when he went in
Speaker 1: he didn't have that reference. That's fascinating. So you had
Speaker 1: met Greg then auditioning for Michael, and then they called
Speaker 1: you about Packer. Is that what happened? Yes, As like
Speaker 1: you said, as the story goes, you'd had a wonderful
Speaker 1: actor who was quite capable, but I think he was
Speaker 1: struggling with it for whatever reason and it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1: And I think they all agreed like, oh, this doesn't
Speaker 1: this isn't quite there. So the new guys went on
Speaker 1: to shoot the next episode. I think it might have
Speaker 1: been episode four, and I think this was episode three
Speaker 1: when Packer comes and so Steve they were I guess
Speaker 1: still auditioning, and Steve apparently had said to Greg Daniels,
Speaker 1: how about Keckner for Packer? And I'm sure Greg was thinking, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's awful um as a human being, let's bring him
Speaker 1: as But no. So with that, you know, I had
Speaker 1: had a pretty good career going. We'd already done Anchorman,
Speaker 1: so you know, you've got the confidence and you know yourself.
Speaker 1: You know Packer. To me it was like, oh my lord,
Speaker 1: you come in and say these awful things to people
Speaker 1: and get away with it. Fun. Plus it's my buddy Steve,
Speaker 1: all right, you know, there's no pressure. Really, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna come in and do it. Okay. Now, had I
Speaker 1: had to audition for it, it would have been different
Speaker 1: because then you're trying rather than like like I said
Speaker 1: before on S and L, I just went and did
Speaker 1: what I do and it worked and you get the job.
Speaker 1: You just go do what you do. When you're audition
Speaker 1: for it, you're doing what in your there's part of
Speaker 1: your mind that goes, I'm I'm doing what I hope
Speaker 1: they want. Doesn't help it. It is so smart. That
Speaker 1: is just so smart because you're right, of course, no
Speaker 1: matter what you're auditioning for and you know what, what
Speaker 1: did they tell you all the time? Right, make it
Speaker 1: your own, just do your version of it. But no,
Speaker 1: there's always still a place in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind that's going like, oh, well, they must want this
Speaker 1: version of me or that or that. It's that is
Speaker 1: so free, that's so true. I've never told this before,
Speaker 1: but I I borrowed from you and Robin Williams, actually
Speaker 1: the two of you who I started working with. I
Speaker 1: did a few projects with him right around the same time,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit after. And I'll tell you. I
Speaker 1: mean to say like Dave was packer all the time
Speaker 1: on set, that's an inaccurate statement. But what I mean
Speaker 1: is is that you were so free and fun and
Speaker 1: brought just an amazing energy to the set every single
Speaker 1: time you were there. And now, whether it was because
Speaker 1: of your confidence or your relationship with Steve and you
Speaker 1: had known Greg and you were like, well, they're not
Speaker 1: gonna fire me, or whatever it was, but you know,
Speaker 1: but I just mean, you just came in and it
Speaker 1: was immediately like, we're not doing brain surgery here, guys.
Speaker 1: We're making comedy television and let's make it fun and
Speaker 1: keep the atmosphere light. And I always respected you for that,
Speaker 1: And Robin was the same way on set, just like
Speaker 1: we're not going to take this too seriously, and um yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I always I always respected you for that
Speaker 1: and feel like I learned from you about that. I've
Speaker 1: taken to other projects to be like, let's let's keep
Speaker 1: this loose, let's keep this light, because ultimately that energy
Speaker 1: is just way more helpful to creating comedy television. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's a great improv teacher and he runs the Annoyance
Speaker 1: Theater in Chicago, and he's one of my peers in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Guy named McK napier, and he's legendary at this point though.
Speaker 1: But he had written a one man show at the
Speaker 1: Annoyance for himself and it was called sex Boy because
Speaker 1: Mick was going through his life and transition of whatever
Speaker 1: he felt his actuality was, so that was part of it.
Speaker 1: He grew up in a small town in Indiana, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think he may have been buy or whatever,
Speaker 1: but just figuring that whole thing out and putting it
Speaker 1: out on stage. But he had a preamble in his
Speaker 1: program and he said, and I don't know if he
Speaker 1: borrowed it from somewhere else. But he said, it's called
Speaker 1: a play. It's not called a bore or a trial
Speaker 1: or a suffering. It's called a play. So let us
Speaker 1: do that. And I always thought, yes, it's called a play.
Speaker 1: It's called a teleplay, it's called a screenplay. But the
Speaker 1: operative word is to play. And our job is to
Speaker 1: go out and play. And for me, if I'm the
Speaker 1: best day ever is when you've got a job in
Speaker 1: show business. So for me, I'm gonna pay witness to that.
Speaker 1: Today we get to do the thing we wanted to
Speaker 1: do when thousands and thousands and thousands of people who
Speaker 1: want to do what we get to do don't get
Speaker 1: to do it. So let's play and celebrate it. That's
Speaker 1: my attitude, like, let's go have some fun. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Did you feel because again they said come
Speaker 1: and do what you do, that you felt the freedom
Speaker 1: to just do what you do. There was no judgment,
Speaker 1: there was no restraint. So yeah, I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: put any guardrails or parameters and what I was gonna
Speaker 1: do and you never did. Yes, And plus the other thing,
Speaker 1: I knew the characters based on Finchy from the original
Speaker 1: Office and Finchy was fucking crazy and awful. He's not
Speaker 1: as bad as Finchy. Who remember Finchy takes one of
Speaker 1: the girls from the office and he has sex with
Speaker 1: her in the alleyway and the look on his face
Speaker 1: is just priceless. Yeah, although you did, you know, poop
Speaker 1: in Michael's office and serve laced cupcakes, which actually I
Speaker 1: thank you for that because that was one of my
Speaker 1: most favorite I mean, people talk about the chili or
Speaker 1: that this or that that, but one of my most
Speaker 1: favorite physical comedy scenes that I was able to do
Speaker 1: was like the flashback scene with Andy slash ed Helms
Speaker 1: and I after we got dosed up on your cupcakes
Speaker 1: maybe my favorite. But I feel like your role is
Speaker 1: a real manifestation of what ended up being a central
Speaker 1: part of the show, which was Michael's journey right from
Speaker 1: I mean clearly a friend of yours from early on,
Speaker 1: or at least wanted to seem cool, to be a
Speaker 1: friend of yours, to ultimately sort of, you know, shedding
Speaker 1: the shackles of you and being able to sort of
Speaker 1: evolve as a human being exactly. It's the representation of
Speaker 1: stunted adolescence. Right there are men that never grow. And
Speaker 1: then then they don't when you don't care to grow,
Speaker 1: when you won't take a signal, or there's no desire
Speaker 1: to be a better human, or if there's someone suggests
Speaker 1: that you don't hear it, and in fact you try
Speaker 1: to defeat it, you would challenge it. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's just that absolute stubbornness that I'm fine, but it's
Speaker 1: also pain, right, I am resolute in my pain, and
Speaker 1: I won't look at it. I will only drown it.
Speaker 1: I'll drown it with alcohol, I'll drown it with my noise.
Speaker 1: I'll drown it with my terrible behavior. And and then
Speaker 1: you find out you're given license. When you're that horrible,
Speaker 1: no one dares to challenge you because they don't want
Speaker 1: to be bear the brunt of whatever you're gonna bring.
Speaker 1: They're just like, this is a storm that's coming in
Speaker 1: because Packer is not there all the time. It's a storm.
Speaker 1: I'll weather the storm, battened down the hashes, and wait
Speaker 1: for it to go away. So that's what happens, right,
Speaker 1: And he's an emotional hand grenade, and he's a terrible storm.
Speaker 1: I've never thought of that before, but that's exactly what happens.
Speaker 1: He's a storm coming through and it was like, just
Speaker 1: let it go. Let it go, because he's got this
Speaker 1: Ally and Michael until there are strong women that come
Speaker 1: into his life and say no, no, that's not okay,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Now. I have you ever run across anyone
Speaker 1: at this point, Brian, And you know this phenomenon as
Speaker 1: well as I do, and it's something I can't quite
Speaker 1: wrap my head around. The phenomenon that is The Office
Speaker 1: is unlike any television show, I would say in the
Speaker 1: history of television. It's beyond compare. I've never been part
Speaker 1: of something this incredible. I'm imagining the people from The
Speaker 1: Sopranos and Game of Thrones have the same thing. But
Speaker 1: the difference is because it's The Office and it's a
Speaker 1: comedy and it brings something else to everybody's life. It's
Speaker 1: so important to people's lives and their devotion to it.
Speaker 1: It changes people's lives and it's it's it's a real
Speaker 1: deep part of their lives. And you've heard people say
Speaker 1: it got me through cancer, or it got me through
Speaker 1: this breakup, or it got us together, and it's unlike
Speaker 1: anything else. Have you ever heard anyone who has written
Speaker 1: a dissertation or their college thesis on the office. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well there's first college classes now that are to the show. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I think the thing that is, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's part of what I've been explored worrying over the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, which I think, as you say,
Speaker 1: it makes it wholly unique from even the shows that
Speaker 1: you mentioned, which was that seven eight years after we
Speaker 1: filmed anything, it was bigger than it was when we
Speaker 1: were on, Like, it continues to expand and grow. Do
Speaker 1: you have an idea of why that is? Here's the
Speaker 1: way I look at it, and what I look at
Speaker 1: is why it appeals to a twelve year old all
Speaker 1: the way to a fifty year old and beyond the
Speaker 1: way I look at it is when they come to
Speaker 1: it at twelve, they're exploring what they think is adult
Speaker 1: humor for the first time, and they get it and
Speaker 1: they understand it because it's so sharply written, like, oh,
Speaker 1: jokes can be subtle and smart and big and broad
Speaker 1: and done at the same time. So they're starting to
Speaker 1: see the tapestry of humor. And then in high school
Speaker 1: it's kind of like you get that shared communion of
Speaker 1: you get the joke the way I get the joke. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a show. There's hip humor in it too. There's
Speaker 1: the obvious stuff, but then there's a settle stuff. So
Speaker 1: that's another thing. Then in college, I believe it gives
Speaker 1: you that that security blanket of well, I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to go out in the world and work, but it's
Speaker 1: not so scary because those buffoons on the office seem
Speaker 1: to make it work and so it can't be that
Speaker 1: scarier place. And then when you get into the workplace,
Speaker 1: you go, oh, that's right, Well, at least it's not.
Speaker 1: Our place is better than that place. But there are
Speaker 1: some people at the work of this place that I
Speaker 1: like that place, And as you're gone, then you embrace
Speaker 1: like where the office. So that's why I think there's
Speaker 1: this thread that runs through all of those things. But
Speaker 1: the deep psychological impact, I haven't broken that down, but
Speaker 1: that's the only threat. I feel like I kind of
Speaker 1: have a beat on why it's got that appeal from
Speaker 1: twelve to ninety. But the psychological and the psychological thing
Speaker 1: I probably breaks down to a bunch of different categories.
Speaker 1: And you know what Comedia dell are taint is and
Speaker 1: for the for your listeners. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: talked about it. Comedia dell arte is it's an Italian
Speaker 1: art form and they based their characters there. They had
Speaker 1: eleven archetypes based on these representations of what humans were,
Speaker 1: from low class to high class, but all of them
Speaker 1: were lampooned. And so I know, we don't have time
Speaker 1: to break it down, but if you look at the office,
Speaker 1: they are all represented by one of the comedy archetypes
Speaker 1: from Comedia del arte as our most sitcoms, and we're
Speaker 1: really just making fun of ourselves. And what we do
Speaker 1: is we see ourselves represented on the screen in those characters,
Speaker 1: and it gives us comfort and worth and the ability
Speaker 1: to go on because I belong. I'm part of something
Speaker 1: larger than me, and I'm represented here and that's me
Speaker 1: and that person as someone else I love and you know,
Speaker 1: enjoy or that person is a caution and everyone recognizes
Speaker 1: that that's the worst person. We all agree on that
Speaker 1: is terrible. Right now. I think you're exactly you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, people talk about, you know, Michael Scott, the
Speaker 1: character of Michael Scott, and he says inappropriate things and
Speaker 1: he says misguided things. But I think that throughout the show,
Speaker 1: you really get to know these people, and as mean
Speaker 1: as he is or misguided as he is at times,
Speaker 1: he has a tremendous amount of heart. And all of
Speaker 1: the characters have a tremendous amount of heart, which I
Speaker 1: think brings comfort. I don't know, but that's I think.
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Every all the regular players
Speaker 1: on the show, you know, we identify was struggle, and
Speaker 1: so everyone's struggling, but they all succeed and they get through.
Speaker 1: And the best way to get through is to have
Speaker 1: heart and to identify with what kindness is and make
Speaker 1: the better choice. And it might take someone several times
Speaker 1: to make the better choice, but you're rooting for them, like,
Speaker 1: don't do that make the right choice please this time?
Speaker 1: But you know you have to not make that right
Speaker 1: choice a long time because it's comedy. Right, you were
Speaker 1: on SNL. We haven't even talked about, but obviously you know,
Speaker 1: huge classic now all time comedy movies. Anchorman, champ Kind.
Speaker 1: What is the role now that you have done throughout
Speaker 1: your career that you would say that you are are
Speaker 1: most recognized for. Oh, well, it's Todd Packer, hands down,
Speaker 1: and then Champ Kind second, it was a puzzle to
Speaker 1: me because after three years of being on just two
Speaker 1: episodes this season of the Office, when you'd see your
Speaker 1: name in print David Kicker from the Office and Anchorman
Speaker 1: like wait no, it's Anchorman. Then the Office, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not on the Office. I'm barely on the Office. But
Speaker 1: I think the thing about Packer is he was referenced
Speaker 1: a lot in the show, even when he's not there,
Speaker 1: or I think people would feel there's like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: something's going on, things are bad. Is Packer coming. I
Speaker 1: think there's a pervasive feeling like it any is a
Speaker 1: storm on its way. Can we avoid the storm? Or
Speaker 1: just an episode where Packer is gonna show up and
Speaker 1: it's always this loathsome feel like, oh, I don't want
Speaker 1: I don't want the ghosts, the horrible ghost visit tonight. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: if Packers coming, there's no way to avoid them. Let's
Speaker 1: just be clear about that. There. You might batten down
Speaker 1: the hatches, but you can't. You can't protect yourself. Yes,
Speaker 1: things are gonna be overturned. I do want to mention obviously,
Speaker 1: you are still incredibly busy and successful, and I know
Speaker 1: right now you're on tour and by the way, I
Speaker 1: do have to say that. I do have to tell
Speaker 1: you this. People ask me now all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: I say, oh, I'm going to this college or I'm
Speaker 1: going here there, and they're like, oh, you know, stand
Speaker 1: up and I for me, you you mentioned sort of
Speaker 1: this before. I can't even call myself a stand up
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's cheating because I didn't go
Speaker 1: through that before. It's cheating now. But you're doing a
Speaker 1: live show, David Keckner dot com. You can grab tickets there.
Speaker 1: You're going everywhere, right all around the country. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is the I'm doing more dates this year than I
Speaker 1: ever had before because I'm writing a new show and
Speaker 1: I will be doing a special before the end of
Speaker 1: the year. Yeah. And you know, it takes a long
Speaker 1: time to become a stand up, and they say, and
Speaker 1: I've been doing it long enough now that I feel
Speaker 1: like I can call myself one. Okay, But you know,
Speaker 1: rather than trying to do what everybody else is doing,
Speaker 1: I finally like, no, no, David, You've got to embrace
Speaker 1: the thing that you do and do more of that
Speaker 1: because there's so many great stand ups that do so
Speaker 1: many different things. Well like that do what you do well, Dave,
Speaker 1: don't try and be a little bit of this and
Speaker 1: a little bit of that before. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of my show has been a little bit of this,
Speaker 1: a little bit of that, like compared to a lot
Speaker 1: of different influences that we've all had. But then at
Speaker 1: some point you're gonna, well, what's your thing do You're
Speaker 1: just an hour of just your thing the way you
Speaker 1: want to do it, and they'll come good for you
Speaker 1: to see that. There are moments sometimes in shows if
Speaker 1: I'm doing a character piece or someone who's used to
Speaker 1: the rhythm of the stand up going from this joke
Speaker 1: to another. Now I'm in a character like what and
Speaker 1: you know the thing that I have and you have too,
Speaker 1: is like you've got to say the stuff from the
Speaker 1: office and anchorman because that's what got me here. So
Speaker 1: I do have to do that in my show, and
Speaker 1: I recognize that. So once that's done, like, okay, guys,
Speaker 1: we're done with that. Now comes my turn. I struggle
Speaker 1: with whether to make them wait for it or just
Speaker 1: getting off off the bat soon. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: the same way. I don't there's not an answer. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's you know, it's up to you. I think what
Speaker 1: I've done, I've done both. I've done where I do
Speaker 1: it right away, and I've done where I do it
Speaker 1: halfway through. And I sometimes will do it when they
Speaker 1: yell right. You know, after fifteen minutes, someone will yell whammy,
Speaker 1: and I know they can't even pay attention to my
Speaker 1: show until they hear whammy. It's almost like, Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: give you a whammy. It's almost like a kid, all right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get one cookie and then we're gonna you know,
Speaker 1: then we're going home or whatever. They we're gonna settle
Speaker 1: in and watch the movie. Yes, you get popcorn and
Speaker 1: soda pop. Then you've gotta be quiet for the whole movie.
Speaker 1: But there is that because there's people who just can't
Speaker 1: stand it. When's he gonna say whammy? What's he gonna say?
Speaker 1: What's up? My nerds? I can't hear you say what's up?
Speaker 1: My nerds? I get it you and I can't run
Speaker 1: from this. It's it's what got them in the seats
Speaker 1: in the first place. That's right, That is true. Can't
Speaker 1: leave you without talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. Maybe
Speaker 1: the greatest game in the history of the NFL, the
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills losing somehow with thirteen seconds left on the
Speaker 1: clock and Kansas City coming through. What your experience watching
Speaker 1: the last plus seconds of that game, Well, I'd be
Speaker 1: a liar if I didn't say I had availed myself
Speaker 1: to the idea that it's okay, okay, it's okay. I
Speaker 1: knew we were playing the best other team in my
Speaker 1: estimation in the game this year. I knew that the
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills would be our toughest opponent of the year.
Speaker 1: We've got so many weapons, You've got so much hope,
Speaker 1: and we've got Mahomes and all of them. You don't
Speaker 1: just say we've got Mahomes. We've got Mahomes and Kelsey
Speaker 1: and Hill and Pringle and everybody you know, and Williams
Speaker 1: and Edwards, Hilaire uh in that front line. We've got everything.
Speaker 1: But there is something about the magic of these two quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: Alan and Mahomes, and they both kept doing it, and
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's only about the time, because they
Speaker 1: would have come back and scored, yeah, back and forth
Speaker 1: all night. Yeah, we just happened to have the ball.
Speaker 1: Alan played an absolutely perfect game and lost and lost.
Speaker 1: Um so I was willing. I was willing to accept defeat.
Speaker 1: I wasn't defeated. I was willing to go, Okay, well
Speaker 1: we put it all out there too, and I can't
Speaker 1: believe they came back after what we just did. And
Speaker 1: there there's never because there's always talking about time management
Speaker 1: and football. You left him too much time. You're like,
Speaker 1: you're like, what, you left him too much time? There's
Speaker 1: thirteen seconds? Yeah, then you know you can't second guess
Speaker 1: their coach. Right, let's put him deep on. Everyone could
Speaker 1: say you should have swibbed it, you should have kicked
Speaker 1: an on side kicked you shaid we should have, should have,
Speaker 1: should have and how are you gonna go you know,
Speaker 1: seventy yards that's not going to happen. Well, yeah, well
Speaker 1: the special team it does and it's okay, and you've
Speaker 1: got to be part of a special game. And I
Speaker 1: felt too, was like, god, do we start saying this
Speaker 1: is the greatest game. I was at the Colosseum when
Speaker 1: the Chiefs and the Rams scored a hundred and nine
Speaker 1: points and kept going back and forth. That was an
Speaker 1: amazing game. We lost that one, but the lesson was
Speaker 1: we were right there. We could do it. We scored
Speaker 1: forty summer fifty points, right, like, we can do it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it to be part of a great game
Speaker 1: is something else. Yeah, it was amazing. If you are
Speaker 1: playing in the super Bowl, good luck, and if you're not, well,
Speaker 1: you won. I think the greatest game in the NFL history,
Speaker 1: the best game I've ever seen. Yeah, I don't see
Speaker 1: how we're not there. I'm pretty confident. But you know,
Speaker 1: one game one day to time, and I know you
Speaker 1: and Aaron are close and that it is tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was not as fun. I'll be honest. I was hoping.
Speaker 1: I was hoping it was going to be uh, the
Speaker 1: Chiefs and the Packers. I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1: I did too. I thought I was pretty sure that's
Speaker 1: that's and I thought that's going to be an incredible
Speaker 1: game because we didn't play the Packers. We played the
Speaker 1: Packers without Aaron Rodgers. Earlier in the season. We didn't
Speaker 1: beat the Packers. We beat the Packers without Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: That's not the Packers, right. Yeah, Well, good luck, enjoy
Speaker 1: enjoy it, and Dave, thank you so much for coming on. Pleasure,
Speaker 1: appreciate you so much and sharing well, you're inside about
Speaker 1: the Office, but also I think some amazing words for
Speaker 1: for anyone who not only has a dream of being
Speaker 1: an entertainer or in this business, but but really any business.
Speaker 1: So thank you, my friend. I appreciate you as well,
Speaker 1: doubl b. Great to spend time with you. Thank God
Speaker 1: for technology so we can hang out and know it all.
Speaker 1: My brother, best your family, have a great day. That
Speaker 1: was amazing, David, Thank you so much for stopping by.
Speaker 1: Funny I expected Deep I did not, but hey, I
Speaker 1: loved it. All of you out there listening, that was great, right,
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed it. Off the Beat is going
Speaker 1: to be freaking awesome. I'm so excited. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: back next week here with the man who brought the
Speaker 1: Office to the States once again, Ben Silverman. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a bitter sweet episode. But I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: go off the beat with all of you. I'll see
Speaker 1: you that the Office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langlee.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our theme
Speaker 1: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton,
Speaker 1: and the episode was mixed by seth Olandsky.