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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that sound you just heard, listeners was me opening

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Speaker 2: up a can of whoop ass on your sense of

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Speaker 2: emotional well being because it's behind the bastard's back for

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Speaker 2: the first time in twenty twenty four, which is statistically

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Speaker 2: gonna be one of the worst years of all of

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Speaker 2: our lives. So I hope everybody's excited having a good

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Speaker 2: time feeling happy.

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Speaker 1: Did you like rehearse that in the mirror?

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Speaker 2: No, No, that all came. I had a totally different

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Speaker 2: bit to do, Sophie. But then I realized I hadn't

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Speaker 2: opened my can of Aura Bora herbal sparkling water. This

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Speaker 2: is cactus rose flavor.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm. Sounds like soap, but go on, ah.

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Speaker 2: It's tasty. That's a great way to enjoleep oout me

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Speaker 2: sipping the.

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Speaker 3: Hillacious year that will be with your cactus rose water. Yeah, Robert,

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Speaker 3: it'll be it'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: Everything's fine, It'll be fine. Yeah, be content for you

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Speaker 2: if you.

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Speaker 3: How many bastards will be born? Bastards we don't even

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Speaker 3: know about who are going to come around this year?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Hey, Robert, Sophie, Yes, do you want to.

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Speaker 1: Introduce our guest?

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Speaker 2: No? Yes, I'm maybe perhaps perhaps I will introduce our guest,

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Speaker 2: who is Francesca Fiorentini, returning beloved guest, host of Habituation

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Speaker 2: Room and partner in life of Matt Lieb.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's partner that you just said that, But does that

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Speaker 1: hurt you at all?

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Speaker 3: Oh? No, no, no, I enjoy Look he's I always

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Speaker 3: live in his shadow, and it's fine. I'm glad I

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Speaker 3: get some time from myself. No, of course he First

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Speaker 3: of all, he is a thirsty mf or who is needy.

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Speaker 3: And every time I get recognized for anything on the street,

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Speaker 3: he will go to that person and go, what about me?

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Speaker 2: You recognize me?

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Speaker 1: Love?

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Speaker 2: I know so good matt leab Dirt.

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Speaker 3: Here so good, there's so much good matt leab Dirt.

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Speaker 3: But yes, I love my baby matt Leeb fat Dueb,

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Speaker 3: and we have a baby together. I also love her.

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Speaker 3: And it's so good to be here on the first

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Speaker 3: of the year. I mean not the first, but one

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Speaker 3: of the first days of the year. It's our first

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Speaker 3: twenty four bastard.

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Speaker 2: It's several days into the actual year, but this is

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Speaker 2: the first day that we're recording behind the Bastards, which

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Speaker 2: legally makes it the only day that's mattered so far

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Speaker 2: this year, you know, those of you who had important days,

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Speaker 2: I don't care.

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Speaker 1: And I really don't think this year could be that

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Speaker 1: bad because you have a live show coming up. Is

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Speaker 1: that right, Francesca.

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Speaker 3: That's such a great segue to tell you the hell yeah,

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Speaker 3: before we get started, Everybody, if you don't know me,

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Speaker 3: you know Matt leeb and so by association you love

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Speaker 3: me in the podcast The Situation Room, as Robert just mentioned,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be live in San Francisco at SF

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Speaker 3: Sketch Fest on Sunday, January twenty eighth at seven pm

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Speaker 3: at the Gateway Theater, and I'm bringing the Daily Zeitgeist

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Speaker 3: co host Miles Gray.

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Speaker 2: So, oh my.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, he's gonna be there. People. It'll be so good,

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Speaker 3: Emma Bigland of the Majority Report. Also for the like

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Speaker 3: political heads. Damn yeah, it's gonna be It's gonna be

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Speaker 3: a good show. And Robert of course helps sell it out.

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Speaker 3: Last year was so fun. Sadly, Robert's not gonna be

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Speaker 3: there again, but what damn it. I don't know. Maybe uh,

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Speaker 3: maybe in the future, but yeah, anyone who's in the

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Speaker 3: Bay come through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very familiar with our our dear friend Miles

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Speaker 1: Gray and if you would like poor info on this,

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Speaker 1: I'm linking in our episode descriptions.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of live performances. No, no, speaking of the worst

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Speaker 2: year that any of us has ever had. Maybe, uh, Francesca,

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Speaker 2: how do you feel about the Republican Party? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Like, not really my thing? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Like I like, I no, just not into it, like

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Speaker 3: Lime's not doing you know, like I don't. I don't

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Speaker 3: want anything to do with it. You know, I've never

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Speaker 3: really tried it, but I don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm a pretty tolerant guy, but I've just

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Speaker 2: I've just gotten too many death threats from like Republican

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Speaker 2: legislators to people.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's not my thing either. But you

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Speaker 2: know what is even worse than the Republican Party in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Orange County, California in the nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 2: What do you know about the OC?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: God, Okay, the OC stands for Orange County. There you go,

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Speaker 3: That's all I know. No, I feel a lot of

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Speaker 3: like obviously, there was a show. It's pretty like rich

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Speaker 3: White People drama, a little bit of red State Maga

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Speaker 3: of California growing Asian American voter population. I know that

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Speaker 3: lot of a lot of Asian Americans who vote them. Recently,

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Speaker 3: they fliped the districts in the OC.

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Speaker 2: YEP. But maybe I'm feeling like i'me since like this sixties.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I'm feeling some retired police officers. I'm feeling

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Speaker 3: some cacake vibes. I'm feeling it's clansy over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a little. It's it, you know, to be

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Speaker 2: fair as you just as you mentioned, the Orange County

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Speaker 2: has has really turned around recently politically and is not

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Speaker 2: nearly the kind of Republican stronghold it used to be,

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Speaker 2: which is great. It is becoming, like, at least demographically,

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Speaker 2: more of a normal suburb than what it was during

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Speaker 2: the period of time we're about to talk about. Which

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Speaker 2: is the uterus from which the Trump Republican partyest. It's

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Speaker 2: not a US base. Well, it's it's warm, it's got

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Speaker 2: palm trees. No, it is a past biology in high school.

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Speaker 3: It's a moldy gym towel in a men's spa where

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Speaker 3: there's lots of boys talk. As Milania would say, it's

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Speaker 3: like it's like a mushroom growing on like that a

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Speaker 3: gym towel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ronald Reagan masturbated it into a gym sawe and

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Speaker 2: left it in a hot shower floor in a boys

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Speaker 2: locker room. Yeah, thirty years or so has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with this. Okay, Well, you know, people can describe

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Speaker 2: it however they feel in their hearts. Although I am

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Speaker 2: I am now more on board team dirty Gym, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: Orange County, whatever you however you want to describe it

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Speaker 2: to yourself. The Republican Party that is we're all dealing

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Speaker 2: with right now, and the Republican Party that gave us

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Speaker 2: Reagan and everything terrible that came with Reagan, you know,

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Speaker 2: the birth of the anti abortion movement, right, the birth

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Speaker 2: of the religious right as a as a powerful political entity,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that it has gotten increasingly acceptable for

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Speaker 2: Republican candidates to talk about having their enemies purged. All

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Speaker 2: of that. The story of all of that starts in

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Speaker 2: Orange County, and it heavily involves an Orange County local,

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Speaker 2: a guy named John Schmidts, who was the kind of

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Speaker 2: the first Trump. He was a dude who ran for

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Speaker 2: president you haven't heard of, but who was really the

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Speaker 2: guy playing around with a lot of very early Trumpist politics,

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Speaker 2: kind of taking the torch from Goldwater and handing it off.

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Speaker 2: You know, he didn't actually like Reagan, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of the crazier shit that came out of Reagan was

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Speaker 2: at least partially people in the GOP who liked Schmitz

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Speaker 2: or who at least saw a value in courting his electorate.

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Speaker 2: So this is a really interesting story. And in order

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Speaker 2: to really properly talk about the bastardury of John Schmitz,

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Speaker 2: we have to start with the birth of Orange County,

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Speaker 2: California itself, because there's a reason why so much of

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Speaker 2: the modern right was born in Orange County.

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Speaker 3: I'm so fascinating because it is a mystery to me

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Speaker 3: that you can live in proximity to a beautiful beach

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Speaker 3: and Disneyland and still be a miserable piece of shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really has something to do with we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about what it's got something to do with, but you're right,

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Speaker 2: it is like a lovely place to be a piece

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Speaker 2: of shit at. Orange County includes about forty miles of

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Speaker 2: sunny beachland, starting at Seal Beach in the north and

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Speaker 2: extending to San Clemente down south. If you're you might

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Speaker 2: think of Orange County as like, if you are from

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Speaker 2: the DFW area like me, it's a little bit like

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Speaker 2: the Plano to Dallas, right, and both in terms of

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Speaker 2: like kind of the how long it takes to get

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Speaker 2: there from the city, you know, although yeah, both those

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Speaker 2: cities have doug shit traffic, and in terms of how

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Speaker 2: much more like conservative it is out there, and also

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Speaker 2: kind of how much less dense it is, you know,

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Speaker 2: both places and there's a lot of places like this

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Speaker 2: in the United States are kind of masses of suburbs.

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Speaker 2: Now there's not as I think it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: better now certainly than it was in the sixties, but

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Speaker 2: like not a lot of shared community spaces like you

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Speaker 2: have in any kind of city, just by default, because

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Speaker 2: that's the way like dense cities work.

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Speaker 3: It's where people go to escape cities because they're like,

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Speaker 3: there's crme, am, I need to live in a mansion.

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Speaker 2: And then they don't talk to anyone for four straight months,

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Speaker 2: but rush Limbaugh and they lose their minds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So around the turn of the century, this was

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Speaker 2: all still farmland, right. It was just owned by a

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Speaker 2: few people who had huge tracts of it, and it

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Speaker 2: had primarily been used for like grazing cattle before. Right,

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Speaker 2: they wind up finding a lot of natural gas and

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Speaker 2: stuff in Orange County, So obviously the oil industry gets

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Speaker 2: the fuck in there, and there's some guys who make

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Speaker 2: a bunch of money buying up land for that. And

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Speaker 2: by the nineteen twenties kind of it was very clear

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Speaker 2: to people who had money and knew how it worked

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Speaker 2: that like, well, whatever, we're going to be able to

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Speaker 2: keep getting for this place, because like ranchland is going

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Speaker 2: to be a lot less money than we'll get if

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Speaker 2: we parcel it up into little lots and sell it

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Speaker 2: off to developers to build suburbs. Right, and this is

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Speaker 2: kind of ahead of the curve, Right, This isn't the

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Speaker 2: first place where suburbs start developing, but it's like one

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Speaker 2: of the early places where you start to get the

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Speaker 2: developments that are going to and kind of the post

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Speaker 2: war period become like the fame miss American suburban culture. Right.

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Speaker 2: The strip mall, Yeah, yeah, the straight the Giants, the

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Speaker 2: endless series of strip malls.

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Speaker 3: That's beautiful, truly, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is like a breathtaking natural beast, just like

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Speaker 2: running by us on the Serengetti of our souls making

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Speaker 2: reminding us all what the fucking concrete looks like and

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Speaker 2: how many.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, just how dude, Earth's Earth? Like

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Speaker 3: this is such a corny thing. Do you think, like

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Speaker 3: like the top soil like tells the other layers of Earth?

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Speaker 3: How fucking ugly humans made it up there? You know

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like they're like, you should see it

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Speaker 3: up here. They got strip malls it is.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of moving out mantles kind of boring. No, man,

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Speaker 2: you want to you don't want to get up here

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 1: There's definitely a dirty little group.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is.

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Speaker 2: Thirty more years they'll get rid of all the buildings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, they're all die off. Well we're coming through

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Speaker 3: the cracks of that concrete. But okay, so right, urban sprawl.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, I mean it actually starts kind of

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Speaker 2: separately from the urban sprawl, right, because Los Angeles isn't

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Speaker 2: nearly as big in the twenties. But yeah, you get

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Speaker 2: these rich people who start with like beach homes on

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Speaker 2: the coast, and then a little later in the thirties

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Speaker 2: or so. Oh no, yeah, probably like the fifties, like

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Speaker 2: the Irvine Company comes in, they see you know, there's

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Speaker 2: already there's demand for this land. A bunch of rich

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Speaker 2: people have houses on it already. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: space out here, and it's kind of adjacent to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Let's start cutting this up into tracts and selling it

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Speaker 2: to people. Right, This opened up a lot of a

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Speaker 2: huge amount of high end homes. Right. These are not

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Speaker 2: the like super affordable, like low wage, middle wage working

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Speaker 2: class guys they're going for here. They're going for this

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Speaker 2: big population of white war veterans who were educated and

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Speaker 2: who were in industries that paid well, and largely that's

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Speaker 2: going to be the defense industry, right, which is hugely

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about this a bit more later, but hugely

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Speaker 2: focused in southern California. So most of these guys, again,

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Speaker 2: World War two is just in it. A lot of

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Speaker 2: these guys were veterans, and they would have been veterans

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Speaker 2: who had, like in a lot of cases, maybe more

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Speaker 2: technical jobs. But Southern California has and has had military

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Speaker 2: basis for a while. A lot of training gets done

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Speaker 2: out near San Diego and had I think in this

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Speaker 2: point too, And so a bunch of these dudes who

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Speaker 2: had passed through, they'd gone they'd come from like Bumfuck,

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Speaker 2: Iowa or something and wound up in southern California and

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Speaker 2: we're like, well, this is so much better than nine

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Speaker 2: feet of snow in the winter. This is where I

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Speaker 2: want to go if I survived the Germans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's that's kind of the start of it, right.

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Speaker 3: It is crazy. I'm from northern California, and southern California

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Speaker 3: does have just like like such like random war planes

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Speaker 3: overhead that you're like, it's the Rose Bowl, Why is

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Speaker 3: there a war plane like doing very suspicious, weird donuty

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Speaker 3: alien shit things overhead and so loud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was weird moving out here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Right, I'm just like, what if I were in

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Speaker 3: the actual war, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like, that's normal.

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Speaker 2: That's what I grew up. Yeah. I didn't even hear

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Speaker 2: that shit grown up in Texas. Like the number of

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Speaker 2: warplanes that I see I saw overhead in California, or

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Speaker 2: like showing up at Seattle randomly and it's just all

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Speaker 2: sailors on the street because it turns out there's a

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Speaker 2: week for that. I didn't know these things were factors

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Speaker 2: of life for other people, because people don't come to

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Speaker 2: the suburbs of Dallas.

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Speaker 3: Did you kiss one? I mean Fleet Week.

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Speaker 2: I would have, but I never got around to it.

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Speaker 3: An opportunity didn't present it.

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Speaker 2: So I was too nervous. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know there's still time.

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Speaker 2: All those men in their terrible, terrible uniforms. God, the

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Speaker 2: Navy uniforms look like shit. Okay, sorry, So you get

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Speaker 2: these guys, these houses start getting built and whatnot, and

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Speaker 2: kind of from the start of the OC's development into

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Speaker 2: a community, power and land there is held almost entirely

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Speaker 2: by this tiny consortium of tin lands, most of whom

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Speaker 2: had more than two hundred thousand acres each. So right,

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Speaker 2: the whole community that exists there today starts off with

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Speaker 2: like ten guys who just bought up everything back when

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Speaker 2: it was really cheap.

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Speaker 3: I was like, mister Huntington Beach.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Johnny Huntington Iron Beach. Yeah. They

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Speaker 2: combined their palates Santa and Anna, Yes, Santa and Anna, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: their marriage was a big deal. And of course Johnny

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Speaker 2: and Sino, the star of the biopic and Sino, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we all remember that great film. These dudes are all

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Speaker 2: they're all businessmen. Some of them are in oil too.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them are in oil to or ranchers.

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Speaker 2: That's a conservative demographic, right, and they make the decision like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'll make more money off these ranches by like kind

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Speaker 2: of transferring them into real estate. Empires to really take

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Speaker 2: advantage of the housing boom. And you know, this kind

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Speaker 2: of explosion in suburban living after the war, and this

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Speaker 2: boom and home buying is largely subsidized by the Department

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Speaker 2: of Defense. Right, there's a BET's a big part of it.

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Speaker 2: If you're a veteran, and damn near everybody is at

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Speaker 2: this point, you get mortgage aid and yeah, I want

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Speaker 2: to quote here from the book Suburban Warriors by Lisa McGirr. Quote.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen sixty two, defense had become the nation's largest business,

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Speaker 2: and from nineteen forty six to nineteen sixty five, sixty

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Speaker 2: two percent of the federal budget went to defense. These

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Speaker 2: huge expenditures catalyzed the affluent society and directly and indirectedly

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Speaker 2: affected the lives of every American.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: Defense money drove national economic growth. The regions that profited

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Speaker 2: most directly were the Sun Belt, South and West, and

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Speaker 2: the biggest beneficiary was southern California. And yeah, I don't know. Again,

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Speaker 2: California has this like kind of driven by a lot

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Speaker 2: of conservative media reputations being hippie land, but like it's

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Speaker 2: where we make our killing instruments to a significant extent, right,

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Speaker 2: it's where we train our soldiers.

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Speaker 3: My question is, what about black veterans? Right? Was this cause?

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Speaker 3: Like why aren't there I mean, there's a Latino in

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Speaker 3: a black bas population in oc but this sounds like

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Speaker 3: very white.

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Speaker 2: Well that's a great question. And there's no black veterans

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Speaker 2: because they're not allowed to buy homes there.

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Speaker 3: Oh easy, simple, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because it's simply not allowed. There's gonna be a bunch

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Speaker 2: of cases where even like you know, Korean American fans

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Speaker 2: of Vietnamese American families, there's this because this region is

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Speaker 2: so conservative. After the Vietnam War, ins a bunch of

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Speaker 2: Vietnamese citizens who had been pro us, Right, we ship

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Speaker 2: a bunch of those people back over here and give

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Speaker 2: them citizenship. It's like one of the things that kind

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Speaker 2: of happens at the end of the war. And when

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Speaker 2: that happens, there's this big initial celebration and so and

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Speaker 2: then they're like, well, you know, we've fought against the communists,

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Speaker 2: we'll move into the super anti communist, right wing neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: and all those guys are like, oh, but we don't

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Speaker 2: want you here, No, absolutely not. And they you know,

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Speaker 2: they still like like build a community for themselves there

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Speaker 2: to a significant extent. It's just there's a there's a

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Speaker 2: great deal of opposition.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, not the nice bluffs.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, it's like a whole it's a whole deal.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, Southern California broadly speaking, is going to get

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Speaker 2: most of like the largest single chunk of the money

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Speaker 2: in defense contracts that comes during like the entirety of

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Speaker 2: the Cold War, Like that is a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: what this country spins on defense in that period just

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Speaker 2: all gets hoovered up by Southern California. And most of

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Speaker 2: the people working in the companies that are doing the hoovering,

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Speaker 2: a lot of them live in Southern California. So before

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Speaker 2: the war had started, defense basically had not been an

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Speaker 2: industry in Orange County, whereas by nineteen fifty there's about

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Speaker 2: thirty one thousand workers like in the defense industry who

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Speaker 2: live just in Orange County, you know, And this is not, like,

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Speaker 2: to be fair, that's not the only place in southern

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Speaker 2: California where there's a lot of defense money. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of these companies will have their headquarters in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: LA gets like like like a lot of building in

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Speaker 2: LA basically happens in order to serve the defense industry

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Speaker 2: in the post war period. And yeah, a lot of

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Speaker 2: the most affluent of these guys, and many of them

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Speaker 2: may work in LA because that's where the companies are headquartered,

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Speaker 2: but they live in Orange County. Are are these defense

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Speaker 2: industry contractors, and especially like the very well educated ones,

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Speaker 2: the guys making rockets and guidance systems and optics and stuff,

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Speaker 2: the guys making like space weapons. Right that a lot

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Speaker 2: of those dudes wind up living in and around Orange

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Speaker 2: County because the houses are bigger and nicer and they

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Speaker 2: can afford them. From nineteen forty to nineteen sixty, the

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Speaker 2: county population grew by roughly three hundred and eighty five percent.

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Speaker 2: So that's how quickly this place explodes just because of

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Speaker 2: the end of World War II, in the birth of

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Speaker 2: the Cold War. And it's always been conservative here as

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Speaker 2: long as there has been any kind of community or

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Speaker 2: in Orange County, it's always been conservative. In the nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenties when the second KKK kind of starts showing up

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Speaker 2: in the United States, two of the largest Yeah, oh yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: you were very very prescient on that. The two biggest

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Speaker 2: counties in californ for clan membership are Anaheim and Fullerton,

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Speaker 2: which yeah, yeah, I don't have trouble seeing that. I'm

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Speaker 2: afraid it's also a stronghold for the temperance movement. This

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Speaker 2: is like the part of California that wants to ban

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Speaker 2: drinking the most, which I get it, you wouldn't that

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Speaker 2: shit don't fly in northern California.

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Speaker 3: No, it's also you know, do you know there's the

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Speaker 3: John Wayne Airport here Robert, which is, yeah, so perfect

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Speaker 3: because we did that series on John Wayne, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, ah, yeah, I know a thing or two

383
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Speaker 3: about that psycho, a whole deserter.

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Speaker 2: I do prefer his airport to lax.

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Speaker 3: But yes, I don't know, dude. I was there and

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Speaker 3: it was a zoo. I was like, yet me, let

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Speaker 3: me go out of a like a smaller airport. It'll

388
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Speaker 3: be chiller. No, no, no, it was fucking crazy. It's just

389
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Speaker 3: less space. But anyway, I digress.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's been a while since i've flown there.

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Speaker 1: See, I like lax, but I'm the only one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah you are, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, I'm like it's just yeah.

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Speaker 2: So again, one of the things you have to remember

395
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Speaker 2: here is that in this post war period, Southern California

396
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Speaker 2: is not a cool place for hippies and like space

397
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,239
Speaker 2: cadets and left wing type people, right, Like, that's not

398
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Speaker 2: what it's thought of at all. It's one of the

399
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Speaker 2: most conservative regions in the country at the turn of

400
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Speaker 2: the century. Huntington Beach in the twenties was advertised as

401
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Speaker 2: a town where quote there are no saloons or drinking,

402
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Speaker 2: and Lisa mcger writes that there were also incredibly strong

403
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Speaker 2: social norms in the region and laws against any kind

404
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Speaker 2: of sexual behavior. Quote in nearby Long Beach in the twenties,

405
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Speaker 2: ordinances forbade caresses hugging, fondling, embracing, kissing, or wrestling with

406
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Speaker 2: any person or persons of the opposite sex in or

407
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Speaker 2: upon or near any public park, avenue, Court Street, or

408
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Speaker 2: any other public place, which I feel like that means

409
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Speaker 2: you could embrace or fondle someone of the same sex.

410
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like a lot of Huntington Beach magachuds

411
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Speaker 3: really took that to heart and definitely wrestle and fondle

412
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Speaker 3: one another on the beach and caress each other. But

413
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Speaker 3: it's like, you know, no homo or whatever. Yeah, but yeah,

414
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Speaker 3: that's what I know about Huntington Beach. It was just

415
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 3: like when Trump won, was like, oh wow, again, you

416
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Speaker 3: can live in a beautiful place, have access to a

417
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Speaker 3: beach and still somehow think that immigrants at destroying the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, just a bunch of bunch of angry men

419
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Speaker 2: with faces as red as a California sunset. Awful. But

420
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Speaker 2: if you're if you're heavily invested in creatine like me,

421
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 2: it's also like, at least you know you're going to

422
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Speaker 2: be able to retire right off all that sweet sweet

423
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: creatine money are putting it into the economy. So it's

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Speaker 2: a part of the country with a lot of moral

425
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Speaker 2: busy bodies from a pretty earlier period. And in fact,

426
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Speaker 2: this kind of southern California in the area that's going

427
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Speaker 2: to become known as Orange County, like I mean that

428
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: it is the county, but that it's going to become

429
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Speaker 2: known in pop culture is Orange County actually has one

430
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Speaker 2: of the highest ratios of churches or capita of any

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Speaker 2: place in the country, like this is the most Jesusist

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Speaker 2: chunk of the country in that period of time. Pretty much.

433
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Speaker 2: There's not many places that beat it. And it's actually,

434
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people know this. It's

435
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: the literal birthplace of fundamentalist Christianity, because modern Fundamentalist Christianity

436
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: comes out of a series of essays titled The Fundamentals

437
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 2: A Testimony to the Truth that had been published from

438
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: nineteen ten to nineteen fifteen at the behest of a

439
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: California oil company founder named Lyman Stewart who lives in

440
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: Orange County.

441
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 3: Nice, right, I see what I'm saying. Like California, Yeah, true, truly,

442
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 3: NorCal number one. And secondly, it's not a blue state.

443
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 3: It's not like there aren't a bunch of liberals here.

444
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: We have these parts and I used to think it

445
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: was just east of the Five, you know, but it's

446
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 3: west of the Five too. Again in these beautiful, beautiful areas.

447
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: God damn it. Really Okay, okay.

448
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: You often get this whole belief, yeah, that that California

449
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: has always kind of been this progressive part of the country,

450
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 2: and it has. It's just there's the most people here,

451
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: so it does the most of everything, and it is

452
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: also one of the most conservative states in the country

453
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: and always has.

454
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: You guys know this used to things. That's cool.

455
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, yeah, there's like forty something million people.

456
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 2: You can do two things.

457
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: It's true, it's true.

458
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. So these guys, these fundamentalists, you know, who are

459
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 2: kind of basing a lot of their their beliefs and

460
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: kind of political organizing, are the ideas in this These

461
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 2: series of essays are kind of characterized with it. There's

462
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: this hatred of the Catholic Church, which used to be

463
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 2: a real big thing in US politics. There's this hatred

464
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 2: of socialism, which is a much newer concept at the time,

465
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 2: but they're very angry about it. Mormonism. There are very

466
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: anti Mormon and they also were really pissed that people

467
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: were teaching Darwinism. Right, So you can see where again

468
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: abortion is not that much of an issue for them yet,

469
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: but you can see this hatred of evolution, of science,

470
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: of socialism that's all coming together and coming out of

471
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: this period in like an organized way.

472
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: Where did the hatred of Mormonism go? Like, where did

473
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: that happen? Yeah? I feel like everything else got its

474
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 3: own little war, but like what about the white on

475
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: white war, Like you know, like when are we going

476
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 3: to see that? Or Mormons are just too nice you

477
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 3: don't want to fight them.

478
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they they are generally very polite. I

479
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: think it does. It is there, It is somewhere what

480
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: present if you find when you find like really hardcore

481
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: Southern Baptists and stuff, like a lot of them have

482
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: very nasty things to say about Mormons. I think it's

483
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: just less of a thing because people who are like

484
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: extreme Christians and conservative feel more under siege today and

485
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: they know that the Mormons are basically in agreement with

486
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: them on there, So then may think those people are

487
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: going to hell, and in fact do, but they'll caucus

488
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: with them. You know. It's kind of thea's always been better.

489
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 3: They're not under siege. They just have a greater imagination

490
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 3: now because somehow demographic demographic shifts blah blah, Yes exactly

491
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: the woke Disney movies, which is in Orange County. All right,

492
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: so take it up with Yeah, they're going to be

493
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 3: these are the descendants of these people are going to

494
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: be protesting the new the fact that like, uh, what

495
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: is it the song of the South Ride was terminated

496
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 3: at Disneyland. It's been replaced by The Princess and the Frog,

497
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: which stars a black princess. Like these are the people

498
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: who are going to be protesting the opening of that

499
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 3: because it's gone woke.

500
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I'm thinking of how funny it would

501
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: be if like you get all these you get these

502
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: these protests that that tend to be seen as more

503
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: left wing, where people are doing stuff like having like

504
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: like a fake you know, everyone lies down and pretends

505
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: to be dead right to protest so horrible war crime

506
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 2: happening in Gaza or something. I'm imagining those same tactics

507
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: being used by guys who are angry that the Song

508
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: of the South Ride has got You've got a bunch

509
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: of dudes in to die in in front of them.

510
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: They're all in black faces and the Frog ride all of.

511
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: Them in black. Absolutely yeah, no.

512
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: They this is in honor of my favorite racist cartoon.

513
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: They've got all their little like Disney mugs waiting for

514
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: a refill. They're protesting the fact that like, yeah, wasn't

515
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 3: one of on the the Jungle Cruise or whatever it was,

516
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: like the the that ride, Like I guess one of

517
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: the trader Sam or one of the like you know,

518
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: voodoo traders got also taken out. They're gonna be dressed

519
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 3: as them. It'll be it'll be good. It's like your

520
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: grandfather foun a fucking war. This is this is your shit,

521
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: is what you're doing now.

522
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: But yes, I guess we'll see what they're doing in

523
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: a couple of years. But during the Great Depression World

524
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: War two, OC voters, you know, they go for FDR

525
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: like everybody else. There is this period of time where

526
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: like things are really bad and a Democrat gets elected,

527
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: but they vote for a Republican again in nineteen forty,

528
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: and they keep doing so for three quarter of a

529
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: century afterwards, right, And you know a big part of

530
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 2: this is that after nineteen forty, which is when the

531
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: region grows in that next twenty years again three hundred

532
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: and eighty five percent, all of the new people coming

533
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: in pretty much are wealthy, right, or at least comparatively

534
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: wealthy right to their predecessors moving into the area. They're

535
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 2: these people who have gotten cushy jobs in the new

536
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: tech industry basically, which is very defense focused at this point,

537
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: and they're all flooding these these increasingly rapidly built homes.

538
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: We start to get some real luminaries and the conservative

539
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: movement out of southern out of Orange County in an

540
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: early era. One of your favorite guys, you were just

541
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: talking about how much you miss him as president, your

542
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: Belinda presidential future presidential candidate, Richard Nixon, who gets voted

543
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: into office in nineteen forty six into Congress by the

544
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: good people of Orange.

545
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: County is from the OC.

546
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's from the OC. He's from your Belinda.

547
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god.

548
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's Dick Nixon. Baby, he's like a

549
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: southern California boy. He grows up when it's much more

550
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: rule rural.

551
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 3: But yeah, god damn it. It's a little bit like

552
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 3: the way that like Stephen Miller, although Steven Miller's from

553
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: like La, Like Steven Miller makes me sense.

554
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: He grew up like Santa Monica or some shit.

555
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Steve Miller does not make sense. But uh

556
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: but yeah, Nixon very much makes sense. Also, just born

557
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 3: with like that old Nixon face, Like he came out

558
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: looking exactly like he does.

559
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: What a hero, What a fucking hero? Yeah yeah.

560
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: So culturally it's just also no experience with the outside world,

561
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: especially because the outside world in every.

562
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: Direction is very isolating, is just.

563
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: As conservative and white but again beautiful. But so it's

564
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: it's like it's like two nice, you gotta have an enemy.

565
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: It is. It is like isolated. It this is like

566
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: the suburbs. There's not nearly the same kind of connectivity

567
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: people have through technology. And a lot of these guys

568
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: are people who do they do their term of service.

569
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: They're like, Wow, the world's fucking scary. Let me go

570
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: hide and at one pretty place and make missiles for

571
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. That's what's gonna That's what

572
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do. You know, Like that really is for

573
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys more or less the path

574
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: that they take. So, yeah, Dick Nixon comes out of

575
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: Orange County. He runs for Congress as an anti communist

576
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: right in nineteen fifty. Nixon, you know, pairs up with

577
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: Joe McCarthy and you know, it's good good for him

578
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: as a as a candidate, right and endears him to

579
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: the voters. It starts to provide him with like a

580
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: base of popularity and whatnot. You know, Nixon's going to

581
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: build his career on attacking communists and his alignment with

582
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: Joe McCarthy to a very significant extent, and it's too

583
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: early for it to work in nineteen sixty in part

584
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: because he is Dick Nixon and he is running against

585
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy and that's just not going.

586
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: To work for him, even though he's a Catholic.

587
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: Though he's a Catholic. Yeah, we vote one of those

588
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: that really pisses off the Orange County people, right, BAF.

589
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: So we put a papist in.

590
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 3: This is not part of our fundamental.

591
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of papists, Francesca, how do you feel about papistry?

592
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: Do you think we can trust the papists? Do you

593
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: think that Catholics are an inherent third column in our

594
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: society waiting to sell us out to the Vatican?

595
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: I mean yes, I mean the Biden crime family is

596
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: very much in bed with the inner workings of the Vatican.

597
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 3: I don't know when you say papistry though I never

598
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: say that word, but I have gotten past my mind

599
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: is like the papistry is like what happens when you

600
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: get a pap smear, Like I'm just taking in this

601
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 3: beautiful papistry of your you know, cervix is how I feel,

602
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: or like if you're a really good gynecologist. You practice papistry.

603
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm imagining some very like confused young Nazi both

604
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: like listening to this podcast and reading a book about

605
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: pap smears and then carrying out attack that makes no

606
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: sense to anybody afterwards.

607
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: Don't wish that? Like, Hey, listeners, are you a young

608
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: confused Nazi? Listen to Behind the Bastards?

609
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: Well, that's I can't imagine a better thing to lead

610
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: into ADS with. Great, We're back. Sophie's gonna have fun

611
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: editing that last throw to ads.

612
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. I'm leaving it as is.

613
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.

614
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: Oh oh wow, okay, well perfect, no notes, listeners, check

615
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: out my LinkedIn the joy that.

616
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: It brought Francesca to look on her face.

617
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm not cutting that shit.

618
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: Okay. So Orange Countiers they vote for Nixon in forty six.

619
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: They like McCarthy when he's doing his thing, but they're

620
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: not really fans of Nixon by the time he runs

621
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: for president against Kennedy, right, in part because you know,

622
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: Nixon is he's come down as like our political boogeyman, right,

623
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: and he was a terrible, terrible monster, but he, like Nixon,

624
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: is the guy later in his career who will like

625
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: hang out and be friends with Mao. Right, because he

626
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: recognizes the geopolitical benefit of the US being aligned with

627
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: China against the USSR right, That's why he does it.

628
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's doing this as a good person,

629
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: but it's like a rational political move that he makes,

630
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: whereas these Orange County guys are saying, like, no, we

631
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: need to all communists are working together to destroy capitalism,

632
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: and we should just keep building more missiles to kill

633
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: them all rather than trying to build like economic and

634
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 2: political agreements that include these states.

635
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: Right.

636
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: It just makes me think of like when Trump met

637
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: with Kim Jong un with like no pretext, no promises, nothing,

638
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: just because he's like I'm a strong man, Like you know,

639
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: you idiot, Like anyone could have done that. You got played,

640
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: and yet we're just not supposed to. Like if it

641
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: were anyone else would have done that, the right would

642
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 3: have freaked the fuck out. This is what Orange County

643
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: worked for, and you're throwing that all away.

644
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: It is interesting that like you're able to get away

645
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: with that if you're Trump, because they just can't like

646
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: hate the guy, and Trump's willing to do it just

647
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: because he does not come out of Conservatism as a movement, right, Like,

648
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: he didn't really im bite any of this propaganda. He

649
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: was just looking for a place where he could fit

650
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: and grow like a mold.

651
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: Speaking of the Yeah, the Jim rag or whatever it is.

652
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: Speaking of Ronald Reagan's cum sock. Yes, yes, Sophie, can

653
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: we talk to the merch people about that? I feel

654
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: like that's a that's a branded that's a branded item. No, okay, Well, Sophie,

655
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: I bought a fifty gallon drum of Ronald Reagan's preserved seamen.

656
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: But I guess I'll have to find a different use

657
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: for that, you know what. I think it'll be fine.

658
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me know what you decided to use that for.

659
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going to drive through Florida and out

660
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: those little cups you get it, like a Sam's ferm

661
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: me tire.

662
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: We could retire off this sperm.

663
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

664
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: I like. I like the idea that someone's doing because

665
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: you know, the IDF is doing that to soldiers who

666
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: are killed. Now the what is it? The semen something

667
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 3: something should seeman astraction, something awful, But that that's oh god,

668
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: oh they're gonna do that to Trump. Oh, I'm sorry, Robert,

669
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: but they're gonna do it to Trump. They're gonna you know, yes,

670
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: what if they do it to Trump?

671
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: Honestly, it would be kind of funny. So let's I

672
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: think it's I think it's fine. I think it's fine.

673
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 2: Go ahead, do it.

674
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: Have his babies in the future? Will Trump at Dad?

675
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: You're the only thing he hasn't sold of his.

676
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: But how much is it come? That's the future for him?

677
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So these guys in Orange County, you know Nixon,

678
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 2: they love him for a while and then they like

679
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,959
Speaker 2: feel betrayed by him because he just kind of does

680
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: things that are rational and not purely based on reactionary hatred,

681
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: and that really pisses them off. A bunch of these

682
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: pissed off, insane business leaders in Orange County formed the

683
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: Better American Foundation, And this had actually been formed a

684
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: bit earlier, but it kind of after, you know, the

685
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: Cold War really get started in earnest they turned it

686
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 2: into this like civilian spy agency where they're building these

687
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: dossiers on every identified Communist in the area. And when

688
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: I say the era, I mean in Los Angeles, like

689
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: and it's down from like Hollywood actors and stuff who

690
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: actually were members of the Communist Party or like writers

691
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 2: to just like like plumbers and shit that somebody thinks

692
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: is a communist and sends these guys a letter being like,

693
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 2: here's why I think this man, my neighbor's a communist.

694
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: I saw him wearing a red shirt one time. So

695
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: put him on your murder.

696
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 3: You know one of the comics, he had a sickle

697
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: and a hammer. Yeah, he's the handyman, you dumb ass. No,

698
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 3: but there was a that's the communist sign.

699
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: That is it is literally that dumb and like lazy. Right.

700
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 2: It's not a good database, but it's taken seriously by

701
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: the major law enforcement agency in the area. The LAPD

702
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: partners with these guys to use their records, and it's

703
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 2: because one of the things these people are keeping track

704
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: of legitimately is labor organizers. One of the reasons why

705
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: is Orange County. There are a lot of farms in

706
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: the area. Those farms are worked primarily by Mexican migrants

707
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: and a lot of folks. Folks would periodically come in

708
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: and try to organize those workers right to get them

709
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: into a union so that they were not exploited to

710
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: the same extent, and that would get these guys on

711
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: a list, and that one way or the other is

712
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: going to get sheriff's deputy or something on your ass,

713
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: and then it's probably not going to end super well

714
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: for you. Right, Like, there's the police kind of partner

715
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: with these folks in this mutually beneficial you know, they

716
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: get busts and stuff and people to go fuck with.

717
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: And you know, these business leaders in Orange County get

718
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 2: rid of some of their problem, right, and.

719
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: Then they went to go pick their own grapes obviously,

720
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 3: just you know, because they wanted to be ideologically you know,

721
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: in sane we're going.

722
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: To do that. Farming doesn't mean actually harvesting food. It

723
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: just means sitting on your porch making a lot of money.

724
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 3: Skulls of those who try to earn a living.

725
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, being incredibly angry at all times about the idea

726
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: of Martin Luther King junior. Just pissing yourself with rage.

727
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: Now we're talking about a lot of social conservatism here

728
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: so far. But obviously, you know, a huge amount of this,

729
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: especially the anti communism, comes out of economic conservatism, which

730
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 2: is why you get this really interesting early marriage in

731
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: southern California in the fifties of hardline libertarian economic theory, right,

732
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: the stuff that's going to really get a lot more

733
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: prominent and actually get a lot of time in the

734
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: sun under Reagan. And kind of ever since, one way

735
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: or the other, you have that kind of merging with

736
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: social conservatism for the first time, right, because while you

737
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: do have a huge number of churches here, you also

738
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: have a lot of these like super tech oriented engineers

739
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: who may be like socially may or may not be

740
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: socially conservative, but are extremely their libertarians, right, And so

741
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 2: they don't, you know, they'll partner with these religious wackos

742
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: that they may not like, may think are ignorant because

743
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: they don't want to pay any money in taxes. They

744
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: hate the idea that somebody might use a road that

745
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 2: their tax dollars went towards. Sure, so that merger, which

746
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: is absolutely a critical part of their Republican Party today

747
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: and ever since, that merger starts in Orange County. And

748
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from Suburban Warriors again by mcghear

749
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: Leonard Reed, who in nineteen forty five would organize the

750
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: Foundation for Economic Education and Institution devoted to promulgating the

751
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: message of free market, private property, and the moral principles

752
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: which underlie these concepts. Converted to libertarianism during his tenure

753
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: as the manager of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce

754
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties and forties. Reed had been influenced

755
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 2: by William C. Bulendor who was then vice president of

756
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: the Southern California Edison Company and a board member of

757
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: Spiritual Mobilization, a conservative group of Los Angeles businessmen and clergymen,

758
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: and also in nineteen fifty nine. In nineteen sixty was

759
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: one of twenty five to thirty prominent businessmen invited by

760
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: Robert Welch to organize the John Birch Society on the

761
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 2: Pacific Coast. Great, so that's a lot of heavy hitters

762
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: like that. This is all coming out of Southern California,

763
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 2: a huge amount of this. Yeah, yeah, I'm mad.

764
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: I even went to Disneyland.

765
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah fuck it. Yeah. The next time I see a

766
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: steamboat Willie costume, I'm just gonna kick him right in

767
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: the ass.

768
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's what he deserves.

769
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 2: That's my promise.

770
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: Those tros are really good though. Yeah.

771
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you'r s is public domain, motherfucker.

772
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: No, honestly, hmm, what I run on to go off

773
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: about Disneyland. But this is wild. So here's the question.

774
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: Is it it's sort of a convergence of interest. Is

775
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 3: it It's like, Ooh, we can use fake you know,

776
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 3: religiosity and morals to cover for our blind greed and

777
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: like desire to like not pay anything in taxes like that?

778
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: Or is it I'm religious and I also am wealthy

779
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 3: and don't want to pay anything in taxes. Therefore I'm

780
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: going to add to my religion libertarianism as part of

781
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,479
Speaker 3: my religion, like or is it just kind of chicking

782
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: into the egg conversation where they both converted at the

783
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: same time.

784
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting again, this is another thing you've kind of

785
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: predicted because it is. It is very much a factor

786
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: of let me graft this weirdly like this weirdly libertarian

787
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: capitalist economic theory onto my religion. Because another thing that

788
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: is later going to come out of Southern California that's

789
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: a product of Orange County in a lot of ways

790
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: is prosperity gospel, Christianity.

791
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: I thought it was a Florida will come.

792
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: Florida plays their role, but a huge amount of that

793
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: shit comes out of southern California. That's a that is

794
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: a major center of like where kind of the prosperity

795
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 2: gospel comes together as like a concept is the OC.

796
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 3: So we're rich because God wanted us to.

797
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: Be, Yeah, exactly. And you can just pray for money,

798
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: but also it helps if you send several thousand of

799
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: it right here, don't pay taxes. That's less money than

800
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: you could send to my scam church that buys me

801
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: a plane.

802
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: Jesus actually didn't really help the poor. His first instinct

803
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 3: was ill, gross, do you even go here? Yeah, but

804
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: then he had to.

805
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: Jesus sold the poor makeup that had a seven hundred

806
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: percent markup that he bought on an installment plan. So now, again,

807
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: while we're talking about all this and all this stuff

808
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: that is very common, I'm on the right right now

809
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: that starts in Orange County. That is not the mainstream

810
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 2: conservative movement at this period of time. And the best

811
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: evidence for that is that a guy who has become

812
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: hated in Orange County, Richard Nixon, wins the presidency. You

813
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: know that, like that is a thing that is eventually

814
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: going to happen, right, and not that far much longer

815
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: in here, right in like the late sixties and so

816
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 2: while this stuff is starting to take off and take

817
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: holden is eventually going to spread County very much. Is

818
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: kind of weird. Right on a national level. It's not

819
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: the only place that's this conservative, but it's character of

820
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: conservatism is kind of unique. And that's also going to

821
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: contribute to this sense of isolation that we're talking about

822
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 2: right where this is. This is really it's like a

823
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: petri dish that you've added ingredients to and you're keeping

824
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: it away from the ret and just seeing what grows

825
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: there before you dump it into the tank. Which again,

826
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: that's that moment is is Ronald Reagan, Right, So yeah,

827
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: one of the things that's going to become an early

828
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: hobgoblin of the Republican Party. And you know, the right

829
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: wing movement in Orange County is the ACLU, and this

830
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: causes a problem. On June twenty fourth of nineteen sixty,

831
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: there's this Anaheim resident John Devorman, who is kind of

832
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: one of the rare progressives in the area, and he

833
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: is a member of the ACLU and also an elected

834
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: member of the school board. Right, so these guys do

835
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: not like the ACLU. They think it is a communist organization.

836
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: They think anyone in it is a communist civil liberties Yeah, yes,

837
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: Like so these guys love McCarthyism. And one of the

838
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: things that happens as a result of McCarthy and the

839
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: House Committee on American Activities is, you know huac is.

840
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 2: You get a number of state committees on un American activities,

841
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: and California has one. It is beloved by these Orange

842
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: County businessmen. They use it a lot in order to

843
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 2: harass again, like union organizers and stuff that they view

844
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: as enemies. Devorman, as a progressive, wants to abolish it.

845
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: So he hosts a meeting at his house of the ACLU,

846
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: and a bunch of you know, there's a gathering. People

847
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: give speeches about why they need to remove this thing,

848
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: about how to organize to do it, and it kind

849
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: of becomes a local story that like this dude invited

850
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: an acl you meeting at his fucking house. These communists,

851
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: you're holding meetings and are sanctuary of Orange County. And

852
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from suburban warriors here. The response

853
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: was swift and forceful. Angry neighbors denounced Worman for importing

854
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 2: communist ideas into their suburban enclave. Heeding their neighbor's call.

855
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: Citizens whose lives had previously revolved around work, church, and

856
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 2: family became involved in a contentious legal battle.

857
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: I mean, and this is all like a reaction, as

858
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: you mentioned the MLK thing, Like, this is just reactions

859
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: to the civil rights movement.

860
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: This is just like, yeah, the civil rights movement is

861
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 2: really kicking off.

862
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, this is let's flee people who want full

863
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 3: like yes, to be treated equally, full citizenship, to not

864
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: be barred from Yeah, they're voting the ballot box all

865
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 3: that shit. That's just all this is. It's like because

866
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: you're like, where does this communism stuff come from? Oh,

867
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: it's just your reaction. It's just the white reaction to

868
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: the black civil rights movement.

869
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's all that this is here. And Devorman

870
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: is unfortunately, he's the kind of dude who's like made

871
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: in a lab to piss off right wingers. Right. He

872
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: was born in New York, he went to Yale. He

873
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 2: was a lifelong progressive and as a bonus, was also Jewish.

874
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 2: So these guys like, once they get a load of

875
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: this guy, they are like, oh, fuck, this dude lives here.

876
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: This dude's on the school board. Of course, it turns

877
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: out he's been called up by the California Committee on

878
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: un American Activities before, and he had on principle refused

879
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: to say if he'd ever been a communist or not.

880
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: So within days there's like newsletters going around claiming this

881
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 2: guy is a trained Communist agent who has infiltrated Orange

882
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: Counties and he's on the school board. He's gonna groom

883
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: our kids, you know, like it's it's it's this is

884
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: not an unfamiliar thing today.

885
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 3: Tail is old as fucking time. And it's the same

886
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: sort of like this or as old as this, and

887
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 3: it's the same sort of like yeah, anti semitic, like

888
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 3: true anti semitic trope of like yeah, it's the Jews

889
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 3: who are bringing in the migrants and giving black people rights.

890
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: Same same stuff, same stuff.

891
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the story of how people find out that

892
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,439
Speaker 2: this guy has held an ACLU meeting at his house

893
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: is really interesting. It all comes down to this dude

894
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: named James Wallace, who very very conservative and is also

895
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 2: a production engineer at Auto Netics. You probably haven't heard

896
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: of Auto Neetics, but they are the people who built

897
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: all of the navigation systems for our ICBMs, like if

898
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 2: you want a nuke to go kill a specific city,

899
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: you hired James Wallace to help make it happen, right,

900
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: Like he's one of these guys. He's a production engineer

901
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: at this company that like that's what they do. So

902
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 2: and he has decides he's got some free time from

903
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: planning for the apocalypse, and he blazes a trail that

904
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: right wing activists like James O'Keefe would follow for decades.

905
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: He blows up and infiltrates the ACLU meeting, right Like

906
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: he does this, so I'm this conservative sitting in there.

907
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: I'm taking notes, right, And then he writes a letter

908
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: to the local newspaper where he talks about what he

909
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: saw and describes the ACLU rep as a trader and writes,

910
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: I wonder what we would have done in nineteen forty

911
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: two if mister Devorman had a German American booned meeting

912
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: at his house. And it's like, man, I know in

913
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: nineteen forty two, I think I know where you would

914
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: have been.

915
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, but that's the other thing that booned meeting exactly. No,

916
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's wild to meet that these descendants

917
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 3: of I guess world War two vets and heroes are

918
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 3: just echoing, not like they're creating them. Basically American Nazi movement, right,

919
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 3: or a version of a white nationalist movement, which you know,

920
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 3: staple of it being anti communist or saying you're anti communists.

921
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: It is extra messed up to accuse a Jewish man

922
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: of wanting to start a German American booned meeting in

923
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: the nineteen forties.

924
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: All the time.

925
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is ooh, that's dark. Yeah. So in short order,

926
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 4: there's mobs showing up at school board meetings where Devorman

927
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 4: is going to be present, right, and they're just kind

928
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 4: of shouting down anyone trying to accomplish anything, like whenever

929
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 4: they're trying to like actually do the school board shit,

930
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: they're yelling at Dorman being like, were you ever a

931
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 4: member of the Communist Party? Where you ever remember the

932
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 4: Communist Party? Eventually his colleagues are like, you're not allowed

933
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: to be both an ACO you.

934
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: Member and a school board member. And he was censured

935
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: and forced into a recall.

936
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: Gee.

937
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: Now the head of the recall effort is another aerospace

938
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 2: industry employee, an engineer named Dixon Miles. He worked at

939
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: Northonyx now I don't think you've you probably haven't heard

940
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: of Northronics. Uh no, what else?

941
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 3: What other horrible machine of death that they create? I

942
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 3: love all this.

943
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: The name is changed a little over the years, you

944
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: know them better today is Northrop Grummen.

945
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 3: There we go, there we are.

946
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is like a Northrop Grumman guy.

947
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: Right.

948
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: He called the efforts to end a government committee that

949
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: existed primarily to destroy lives, this Unamerican Activities Committee. He

950
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: calls the attempt to take it down a threat to

951
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: our heritage, our beautiful heritage of holding committees to destroy

952
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: people who vote differently.

953
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 3: No, And then also like that's the other thing that's

954
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 3: so fucking like the dissonance is so deafening in this

955
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 3: story and this origin story of like the modern right

956
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 3: because of the way they I mean, we should have

957
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 3: said this earlier. But like, these are supposedly religious people

958
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 3: who are creating weapons of like death every single day,

959
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: and there's no again, there is no contradiction in their minds.

960
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 3: And yeah, and then again the same shit where it's

961
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: like this guy's like, hey, we have this committee who

962
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: is kind of terrorizing our community in different ways and

963
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 3: interrogating us. We should probably have some sort of sovereignty,

964
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: we shouldn't be subject to this kind of surveillance. And

965
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 3: they're like, nah, you like, yeah, it's just it's just

966
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 3: the same fucking like projection, the acl use the one.

967
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're trying to take away our freedom to take

968
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: away other people's freedom, which is what it all comes

969
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: down to. It comes down and this successful effort to

970
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: force Vormen off the school board is a catalyzing moment

971
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: for Orange County conservatives who had always been dicks. Right,

972
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: These people had been shitty people for a spell, but

973
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 2: they also had never felt like they were organized together

974
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: into any like cohesive political whole. Right, there's this attitude

975
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: that like, well, you know, we're all pretty conservative here.

976
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: None of us like communism, we don't accept in our community.

977
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: But now they realize how many of them there are

978
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: who are that angry about the state of the world.

979
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: And again, the civil rights movement is a big part

980
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: of this, and it gives them this sense of power.

981
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 2: You know, again, this is not a thing that's going

982
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: to be alien to anyone who's been paying attention in

983
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: the last few years. So it turns out that as

984
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: we've kind of been making The case for the set

985
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 2: of unique coincidences that formed Orange County in its early

986
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: stages was basically tailor made to create explosion of paranoid

987
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: people with no community connections beyond those geared towards expressing

988
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: fear or anger at imagined political enemies.

989
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 3: Right, it's just a land of Karens, a rolling, rolling

990
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: hills of Karens.

991
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 2: It's mostly houses. Everything is like very far apart from

992
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: any spaces where people are going to like gather, you know,

993
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: outside of households regularly. Basically all of the public space

994
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 2: in the county has been shopped up and sold to

995
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 2: developers at this point, which has made very clear there's

996
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: a good passage in suburban warriors about this. A segment

997
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 2: of its middle class found a sense of community in

998
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: the politics and social interaction preferred by local businessmen, right

999
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: wing ideologues, and conservative church leaders. Thus, one woman said

1000
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: of conservative activism, it became a social thing. Much of

1001
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: the county followed the planned sprawl model of development. This

1002
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: led to chaotic spatial arrangements, with one track developed after another.

1003
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: Streets were bisected by new housing tracts, increasing a perception

1004
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: of discontinuity and chaos. This form of growth created what

1005
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: one may term free enterprise cities, with a strong emphasis

1006
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 2: on private development and growth and little regard for public

1007
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: or community spaces. By neglecting public space in favor of growth,

1008
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: such arrangements weakened the sense of community. In fact, even

1009
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: the existing central spaces of the old downtowns were undermined

1010
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: in favor of convenience, privacy, and shopping malls. The most

1011
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: extreme result of this pro growth attitude was the eventual

1012
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: demolition of the old downtown city centre and Ana him

1013
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: to make loom for development. So they just they just

1014
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: blast everything that isn't a single family dwelling. Basically they

1015
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: knew get and pave it. And this is by the way,

1016
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: this is where kind of a trail is blazes, like

1017
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: the first place where Americans are building developments and walling

1018
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: them off from each other in like an organized way,

1019
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: like it happens in New York too, kind of in

1020
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: a contemporaneous period. You get pieces of that, but like

1021
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: you get this, it starts in Orange County with these

1022
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 2: old folks homes right where you basically have this is

1023
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: a retirement community. They're not like old folks homes like

1024
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: homes for retired people that are all part of a

1025
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 2: community that they like wall and gate off in order

1026
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: to like because these people are scared of everything.

1027
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like who it's definitely I've the times

1028
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 3: I've been to the OC is like, who are you

1029
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 3: trying to keep out here? Because there's just other gated communities?

1030
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: Like are you are there? Is this some kind of

1031
00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:00,280
Speaker 3: like you know warriors like fight you know, gang gated community,

1032
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: gang situation because that'd be tight, But like, I literally

1033
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 3: don't know who you're keeping out anyone who like you

1034
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: can't even walk here, like there are no sidewalks.

1035
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is I mean, all of that is

1036
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 2: part of why it is the way it is there, Right,

1037
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: These are the geography and the development makes these very

1038
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: isolating places. Also, nobody comes from here. Your whole family,

1039
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: like generations of it, doesn't live in Orange County, right,

1040
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: you moved here from somewhere else. And by the same note, like,

1041
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: so as a result of that kind of the only

1042
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: public spaces are churches, and the only organizations that people

1043
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: are likely to be members of other than their church

1044
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: is their political party. So when you have that and

1045
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: you add into it, there's suddenly this fight over perceived

1046
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: communism in the neighborhood and everybody rallies together and they're

1047
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: all doing a thing together in the real world, and

1048
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: that's like addictive, and you're going to get that's the

1049
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: origin of a lot of what's going to wind up

1050
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: infecting the rest of the Republican Party. It starts with this, right,

1051
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 2: It starts with this community starved group of people who

1052
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: find a sense of like identity and just excitement and

1053
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: going to war with this dude who just wanted to

1054
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: host an say ACLU meeting. That's a huge moment in

1055
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 2: the history of American conservatism. Yeah. So the real gift

1056
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 2: that Vorman had gave these people was a threat to

1057
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: rally behind, and once they had felt that high, they

1058
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: didn't want to give it up. Local business leaders, who,

1059
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: as we've stayed it have always been the engine of

1060
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 2: conservative politics in the area, saw opportunity. A group of them,

1061
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: headed by Walter Nott, owner of k Notsberry Farm, organized,

1062
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 2: which is like the first theme park in the US,

1063
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, so the nots Ery Farm guy organizes

1064
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 2: a committee and sponsors what he calls the Orange County

1065
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 2: School of Anti Communism. Oh god, Oh yeah, that just

1066
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: sounds like a great.

1067
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 3: Time over a Notsbury farm. You know why. At least

1068
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 3: Disney doesn't have like a shady past, yeah, you know,

1069
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: or any kind of right wing over app or any

1070
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 3: kind of Nazi.

1071
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: No, you know, none that I've heard of. Not they're

1072
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 2: woke as hell.

1073
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 3: Hey, they're super woke. Desanta said it himself. Okay, Sonosbury, Yeah, okay,

1074
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: another theme park's been ruined.

1075
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, organizes the Orange County School of Anti Communism. Now,

1076
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: initially this is like a series of local community college classes, right,

1077
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: but they're so over attended, Like most the community college

1078
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 2: is drowning in suburbanites who want to attend this anti

1079
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: communism school. So mister Not is like, all right, well,

1080
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: we got to do it bigger and a month before

1081
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 2: the Bay of Pigs invasion in the spring of nineteen

1082
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 2: sixty one, more than seven thousand students and parents, many

1083
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: of whom had skipped Workers School, gathered in La Palma

1084
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: Park Stadium in Anaheim to attend a five day Christian

1085
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: anti communist school organized by Not. And I'm going to

1086
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: quote from the La Times to talk about give you

1087
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: a little insight into how this thing goes This is

1088
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: a speech by Herbert Philbrick, who's a former FBI agent,

1089
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: when he gives a crowd of people of like seven

1090
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 2: thousand on March eighth. Right, now, we have a fifty

1091
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: to fifty chance of defeating the communist threat, but each

1092
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: day our chances grow less. And that's like that, that's

1093
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: the tenor of this whole thing, right, Like the communists,

1094
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 2: it's gonna be an uphill battle. I don't know if

1095
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 2: we can beat them, but if we, you know, we've

1096
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: got to turn things around. Now. Obviously the event includes

1097
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 2: Birchers who one of the things that happens at this

1098
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: meeting is they declare President Dwight D. Eisenhower to have

1099
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 2: been a communist tool. Now it's not just not he's

1100
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 2: not the only famous name here. John Wayne is in attendance,

1101
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: and so that's good. Yeah, Yeah, everybody's favorite fucking goblin

1102
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 2: of a man. Yeah, it's a it's it's a big deal.

1103
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 3: Right.

1104
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 2: This is a huge moment in American conservatism as well.

1105
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 3: You know, I always you always wonder, like is their

1106
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 3: imagined threat still the same? Right, they call it communism,

1107
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 3: they call it socialism, they call it woke. They're getting

1108
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 3: closer to just saying people of color with the word

1109
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: woke or anti woke. But you're like, at the time,

1110
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 3: was it just sort of I guess I'm wondering, like

1111
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 3: when they said communism, they knew they just meant like

1112
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: Jewish people, black people, women having any kind of like

1113
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 3: equal rights. And it's always this threat. They're just afraid

1114
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 3: that they would have to give up their what beautiful,

1115
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: beautiful strip mall.

1116
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is that's a huge part of it.

1117
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 2: I will say, it's not just people of color and women.

1118
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: They also have a particular hatred of college students. Right.

1119
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 2: This is also starting to be the early stages of

1120
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: protests in the early sixties against not just in favor

1121
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: of civil rights, but against the Vietnam War, and that's

1122
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: a huge these that's also a big bugbear for these

1123
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 2: people is college students.

1124
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 3: Right.

1125
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 2: So, more than sixteen thousand Americans or Orange County ends,

1126
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: I guess, wind up attending the event, and Ronald Reagan

1127
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: is going to be the most popular speaker there. He's

1128
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 2: also an attendance. You've got Reagan, You've got John Wayne,

1129
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: and you've got the knots Berry farm guy. And the

1130
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: event is such a hit, and that Ronald Reagan's speech

1131
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 2: is particularly such a big deal that the knots Berry

1132
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 2: Farm guy helps to organize. Following this a three hour

1133
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: Hollywood Bowl event called Hollywood's Answer to Communism, which is

1134
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: described by TV critic John Crosby as a monster three

1135
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 2: hour concentration of pure venom on television, in which patriots

1136
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 2: suggested again and again that the United States was largely

1137
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: peopled by traders. So that sounds cool, obviously, John Wayne. Yeah,

1138
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 2: that everyone who isn't one of these weird right wingers

1139
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: is a trader to the country. High up in the

1140
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: list of conservatives who hate it are the celebrities who

1141
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 2: attend this Hollywood Answers Communism, which include John Wayne obviously,

1142
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 2: Roy Rogers not a surprising as well. This one's going

1143
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: to hurt people though. Jimmy Stewart's a speaker. Oh yeah,

1144
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: that's a bummer. That's a bummer. Not shocking. If you

1145
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: know the guy, you can't do it. Jimmy Stewart, Why,

1146
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: I sure do hate it when people love civil rights.

1147
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's not a good Jimmy Stewart, Well.

1148
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 3: No, they want to be equal.

1149
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: Now they've gotten off something like that. So both events

1150
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: are organized by a famous piece of shit and Australian

1151
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 2: gift to conservatism, Frederick Schwartz, and he founds the Christian

1152
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: Anti Communist Crusade, and he moves his headquarters to Orange

1153
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 2: County in nineteen sixty. Schwartz's claim to fame is a

1154
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 2: book called You Can Trust the Communists to Be Communists,

1155
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 2: which had a stunningly subtle sequel You Can Still Trust

1156
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: the Communists to mean Communist, Socialist and Progressives too, so

1157
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 2: great titles like really creative, good work man, speaking of

1158
00:59:49,960 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: weird fascists here's nope, shit ads ah, we're back. So

1159
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 2: both these events, you know, you've got notts kind of

1160
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: providing the funding. But the guy who is organizing them

1161
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 2: is Frederick Schwarz. He's this dude who founds the Christian

1162
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 2: Anti Communist Crusade, which which moves to Orange County. He

1163
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 2: writes these two books with almost the same title about

1164
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 2: how communism is scary and.

1165
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 3: Communism is a communists, no communists, popularly the communism You

1166
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 3: can't spell communists without Khan.

1167
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, without like most of the words in Cohn right, Yeah,

1168
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: So his his brand of propaganda it's going to be

1169
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: different in some critical ways from mainstream far right propaganda

1170
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 2: because he bases a lot of his pitch on the

1171
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 2: interests of specifically people in southern California right. His first

1172
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: book includes a lengthy passage where he complains that communists

1173
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: are graduating more engineers than the United States, which has

1174
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: given them an edge in making new weapons. And there's

1175
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: there's some wild life in here. The question is which

1176
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: system of education will win this universal war. I was

1177
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 2: visiting an American college. Before I had been there ten minutes,

1178
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 2: the president told me with great pride of a young

1179
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: man who had brought glory and honor to their school.

1180
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 2: Wherever I went on campus, I heard his praise as sung.

1181
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 2: At last I met him, and a fine young man

1182
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: he was. His Boddy was lithe and slender, and he

1183
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: stood some six feet two inches tall. He was their

1184
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 2: leading basketball player. His skill at the game was so

1185
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: great that he had been chosen to go to Melbourne,

1186
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 2: Australia to represent the United States and the Olympic Games

1187
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty six. What an honor for the school.

1188
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: Frequently I asked, who's your leading science student? He looked

1189
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: up at me with wonder and amazement. He could not

1190
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 2: answer the question. So he says, we're teaching our kids basketball,

1191
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: but not how to make missiles. God, it's such a

1192
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: funny thing to like half the year primary concern like

1193
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: that an anyone could have ever thought, like the answer

1194
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 2: to the Cold War, like that we would not have

1195
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 2: enough missiles. So that was ever a thing in the

1196
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 2: US if you know anything about this country. No, as

1197
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: soon as missiles were a thing, we were going to

1198
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 2: have the most of them. That was always in the

1199
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: cards for this country. Like that is that is.

1200
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 3: Truly a trick that I don't know. The you know,

1201
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 3: military industrial complex definitely pulled on everybody, but I guess

1202
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: including people. And like I said, vets the idea that

1203
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 3: you're victors. You won. Yeah, no one even pails in

1204
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: comparison to the kind of military you have. But yeah, yeah,

1205
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think you can play some basketball,

1206
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Just like take a load off,

1207
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 3: like chill out.

1208
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: Like you are geographically defended because of like the way

1209
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 2: North America is set up. You have so much more

1210
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: money and so many more guns than anybody else on

1211
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 2: the planet, and yet you're terrified because you saw a

1212
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 2: kid who was good at basketball, but the school didn't

1213
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: have any future missile designers. Like what the fuck? Man,

1214
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 2: that's a nuts.

1215
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 3: So so ridiculous.

1216
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: But you can see why this goes well, goes over

1217
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 2: well in Orange County because not only are a lot

1218
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 2: of employees of defense contract but a lot of people

1219
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 2: who are like running these these defense companies. And like

1220
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 2: this guy is saying America is not graduating enough missile

1221
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 2: IT designers, and they're like, yeah, we need more missiles.

1222
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 2: I make money off of every one of those. We

1223
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 2: fucking sign right, Like Northrop Grumming is paying the fucking

1224
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 2: mortgage on a lot of these ranch style houses, you know.

1225
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 2: And so the people who are you know, financially invested

1226
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,959
Speaker 2: in this, they like it that Schwartz is saying there's

1227
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: no way to have peace. There's no way to ever

1228
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 2: decrease our defense spending. We only need to spend more

1229
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: and more and more.

1230
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 3: This is just it's such a nightmare VENN diagram of

1231
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 3: the like the OC is just this like nightmare fucking

1232
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 3: what's the longitude and latitude like nightmare coordinates of every

1233
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 3: single Yeah, like libertarianism, the Christian right, and the weapons industry,

1234
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 3: which of course they don't admit to it all now

1235
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 3: when they're like, well, we need to not send any

1236
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 3: more money to Ukraine or whatnot, and they're just like, no,

1237
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: all y'all love the weapons industry. You want to send

1238
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 3: more money and make more worn of it.

1239
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 2: You would have send them so many more places than that. Yeah,

1240
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:02,919
Speaker 2: you just don't want to do it for a good

1241
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, that's would it be an asshole about it? Yeah? No,

1242
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 2: But it is like you know, we're talking about like

1243
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: the attitude towards people who are like running these companies,

1244
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: but regular people don't want to feel like they're warmongers.

1245
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 2: And so part of what makes Schwartz interesting is he

1246
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 2: very interestingly creates this sort of image of like Americans

1247
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 2: want peace, right, we actually value peace, and when we

1248
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: say peace, we mean an into violence.

1249
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: Right.

1250
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 2: Communists talk about peace a lot, but communists don't view

1251
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 2: peace as the same thing. In communism, peace doesn't mean

1252
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: ending violence. Peace means ending conservatives, right. That's basically what

1253
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 2: ending capitalists, right, Like, that's that's how they say it, right.

1254
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 2: And so like when we say we want peace, we

1255
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: mean we don't want violence. But if that means if

1256
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: we actually advocate for peace, we're dooming ourselves because the

1257
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: only piece they'll accept is one in which we don't exist. Now,

1258
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: if you're rational at all, you can say that, like, well,

1259
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: all you're saying is the only real piece is one

1260
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 2: in which the communists don't exist, right, Yeah, there's no

1261
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 2: difference between what you're saying. They're saying and what you

1262
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: are saying. Those are the same two things. But yeah,

1263
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 2: it works, right, This is popular with.

1264
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: These Conservatism is all premised on future tripping about a

1265
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 3: reality that has not come to bear and will not

1266
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 3: likely come to bear. They just well, you know, it's projection.

1267
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: They're going to do it to us. They're trying to

1268
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: eliminate conservatism, so we need to eliminate them first.

1269
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've said that they have to put an end

1270
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 2: to capitalism, so we have to put an end, you know,

1271
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 2: to communism.

1272
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: A thing we don't have, do not live under it.

1273
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 2: But that doesn't make us bloodthirsty. We're still good Christians,

1274
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 2: right sure, Yeah, I mean these are just everyone finds

1275
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 2: ways of doing this. It's not an uncommon like this

1276
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: is not that this was not invented by this guy.

1277
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 2: But I find the way in which he's speaking to

1278
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 2: these Orange County voters to be kind of telling about

1279
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 2: how people in general like to look at themselves. Yeah

1280
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 2: so yeah. As a side note, of the things that's

1281
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: really interesting when you read a lot of Schwarz's writing

1282
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 2: is how frequently he praises the quality of communist literature,

1283
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 2: Like I don't know any communists who use the word

1284
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 2: beautiful to describe like communist propaganda as much as this

1285
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 2: guy does, Like he fucking loves it. He writes about

1286
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 2: how like a wonderful book like Problems of Leninism by

1287
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 2: Joseph Stalin can be acquired for just a few cents

1288
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: in any bookstore in America, Like why can't we do

1289
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 2: that with our propaganda. There's so much better at it

1290
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: than us, all.

1291
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 3: These wood cuttings and it's great, and they've got good mustard.

1292
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 3: We need some good must He.

1293
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 2: Writes about this this Chinese communist magazine called Chinese Pictorial,

1294
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 2: and he's like, the color photography is beautiful, the moral

1295
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 2: tone is excellent. There's no violence, no crime, no nakedness,

1296
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 2: no sex, no alcohol.

1297
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like we need to do that,

1298
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 3: but for money, you know, like for us and our side.

1299
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is fun because he is saying a

1300
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: lot like wow, the way these the way that these

1301
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 2: maoists portray they're like fantasy future society looks great. There's

1302
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 2: none of the things I hate. Right, It's like, okay,

1303
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 2: well then why are these people your biggest enemy? Well,

1304
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. Whatever it's it's it is funny to me,

1305
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: like he writes, he clearly so enjoys. It reminds me

1306
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 2: of Jordan Peterson, right, keeping like communist propaganda all over

1307
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,919
Speaker 2: his walls. He's like, that's kind of odd if you're

1308
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: if you're not into it at all, to just surround

1309
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: yourself with it all the time. That's very interesting to me.

1310
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 3: You got to keep the enemy cleos.

1311
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 2: Now, I think they would probably describe it as like, well,

1312
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 2: I want to understand the enemy so I can know

1313
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 2: how to fight them, which exactly you know, Okay, like.

1314
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 3: It's there, but yeah, it is. It is a weird obsession,

1315
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 3: but it's also just again, I was at the California

1316
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 3: Republican Party like convention, California Republican Convention in twenty fifteen.

1317
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 3: I guess it would be and uh, the best moment

1318
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 3: of that whole convention for all these Republicans was when

1319
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 3: they could see the protests happening outside of the building

1320
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 3: because Trump was speaking. It's when Trump had to like,

1321
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 3: you know, walk in like the alley of the or

1322
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 3: like the shoulder of a highway and whatnot because of

1323
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 3: you know, protesters had closed the stop, the entryway, whatever.

1324
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 3: And the faces of these Republicans were so excited. They

1325
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 3: loved watching themselves be hated, and they loved seeing what

1326
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 3: the other side was doing. And so I do think

1327
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 3: there is sort of a weird fascination they see.

1328
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 2: I think there's this a significant degree of like admiration

1329
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 2: for well, these guys were a tiny, unpopular chunk of

1330
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: the country and using a variety of methods were able

1331
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 2: to like build parties and organizations that allowed them to

1332
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 2: reach and radicalize a huge number of people and take power.

1333
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what we want to do, but specifically

1334
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:55,839
Speaker 2: so that we have to pay less taxes.

1335
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1336
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 2: They have a lot of power, but they're not the

1337
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 2: only power, right, because shit happens like the civil rights movement, right,

1338
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 2: and then you know, you get a law that they hate,

1339
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 2: that forces changes in society that they hate. You have

1340
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, prior to the government, like you know, the

1341
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 2: government doing like enforcibly integrating school. So they they would

1342
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 2: say it is like we're fighting for our lives here,

1343
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 2: and what we need to do is what those communists

1344
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 2: did just like take total power, right, Like, that's very

1345
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: much why they're kind of looking to this propaganda. And

1346
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: Schwartz has again he's very like positive towards communist propaganda,

1347
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 2: and he in this very weird passage compares it to

1348
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: like a pedophile with a candy van, which is a

1349
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 2: really I didn't realize that sort of like image went

1350
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: back this far to like the early sixties, but evidently

1351
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 2: it does. Yeah, so anti communism is going to remain

1352
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 2: a central interest for Orange County conservatives who all start

1353
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 2: to see the Cold War, as you know, the acceleration

1354
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 2: of the Cold War is not simply like just for

1355
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 2: ideological reasons, but also as important for their bottom line. Right,

1356
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 2: this is going to make us all rich. The Orange

1357
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 2: County Research Institute, which also did surveys in other parts

1358
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 2: of the US, noted in the early sixties that Orange

1359
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 2: County dwellers were likely or to either be interested in

1360
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 2: or have bomb shelters than people anywhere else. So I

1361
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:16,839
Speaker 2: think that's funny, Like Midwesterners aren't buying bomb shelters exactly.

1362
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,600
Speaker 3: This is like after nine to eleven people, Yeah, like

1363
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 3: in fucking I don't know, think of a random ass

1364
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 3: like in just like yeah in the OC being like

1365
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,719
Speaker 3: they're coming for us, Like, no, they're not, They're not gonna.

1366
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, yorba.

1367
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 2: Everybody had to feel we all want to feel like

1368
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 2: we're part of the news though, right, we all have

1369
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 2: to make it about ourselves.

1370
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, they're gonna come right for us. Now they're not.

1371
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 3: You wish they're coming.

1372
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: It's not.

1373
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 3: No one cares enough about Irvine.

1374
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 2: For just cannot spell your Belinda, I'm exactly like you're okay.

1375
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 2: So in nineteen forty eight, again Dick Nixon's anti communism

1376
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 2: had embodied the values of Orange County pretty well, but

1377
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 2: over the next decade and change, like it had radicalized

1378
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 2: to the point where he starts to be hated in

1379
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 2: the area. Right, And this becomes particularly the case once

1380
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 2: he becomes the president, right in late sixties, you know,

1381
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: early seventies, when Nixon is in power, he becomes like

1382
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 2: a huge enemy of them. For the fact that he's

1383
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 2: willing to talk with communists, He's willing to make deals

1384
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 2: with the Chinese government. Right, he's kind of the first rhino.

1385
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 3: Right.

1386
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: You know, that's a term that has a lot more

1387
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 2: cachet now politically. They weren't using it then, But the

1388
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 2: Bircher right wing are the first people to really go

1389
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 2: after Nixon in that way. I think he first wound

1390
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: up on their shit list in sixty two when he

1391
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 2: had run for governor of California and the society had

1392
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 2: attacked him. The John Birch Society had gone against Nixon

1393
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 2: in sixty two by they backed the candidacy of this guy,

1394
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 2: Joe Schell, who was a local assemblyman. He was a

1395
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 2: high school football idol turned independent oil producer. So he's

1396
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 2: just like the perfect man for them to all rally behind.

1397
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, libs of right wing identities.

1398
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

1399
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 3: And there's this real quote farmer.

1400
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 2: There's this really good quote. Yeah, he's a football oil farmer.

1401
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 2: The La Times gives a really good quote of the

1402
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: tenor of the election. He has, like his competition with

1403
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:18,440
Speaker 2: and its impact on Nixon. Piloting his own Beechcraft bonanza

1404
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 2: from one campaign stop to the next. Shell aimed his

1405
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 2: pitch squarely at fellow conservatives. I've gotten sick and tired

1406
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: of calling people liberals when they're basically socialists, he said.

1407
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 2: First elected to the Assembly in nineteen fifty three, Shell

1408
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 2: was the minority leader when he decided to run for governor.

1409
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 2: One hallmark of his campaign he repeatedly accused former Vice

1410
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 2: President Nixon of tried to use the California governorship as

1411
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 2: a stepping stone to the presidency. Although Nixon won the

1412
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 2: primary handily, Shell captured thirty five percent of the vote.

1413
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 2: Nixon had been substantially weakened because the ultra conservative Shell's

1414
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 2: challenge caused a split in the party. Former Defense Secretary

1415
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: Casper Weinberger said in his two thousand and one memoir,

1416
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 2: So again, it's its Orange County and particularly the John

1417
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 2: Birts there that really stops Nixon from winning the governorship

1418
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 2: because they they kind of hobble his campaign. They create

1419
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 2: all this animosity, you know, because they back this fucking

1420
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 2: football football oilman Joe Shell. Yeah, God, that's funny. So

1421
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 2: Nixon irritates the John britseidy again. In nineteen sixty four,

1422
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 2: when Barry Goldwater, who was then kind of in the

1423
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 2: early sixties. He's the craziest fascist in America. He's going

1424
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 2: to whine end his life in like the nineties as

1425
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 2: like pro marijuana, in pro gay marriage. But he is, like,

1426
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: he is the scariest fascist in public life in the

1427
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 2: sixty It's a weird. Yeah, he winds up I guess

1428
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 2: being okay at the end of his life, I don't

1429
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 2: know what was going on.

1430
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 3: A lib. He just dies a LIB.

1431
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, he kind of dies a LIB.

1432
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, Weed's cool.

1433
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 2: Love is love, Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting. He's got a

1434
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: fascinating arc. But he's the dude. His big famous quote

1435
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 2: is he just he declares that the Republican can mention

1436
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: that year extremism in defensive liberty is no vice. And yeah,

1437
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 2: so that's you know, that's the guy who's kind of

1438
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 2: like the fucking big Republican in sixty four or the

1439
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 2: big far right Republican in sixty four. Obviously, Nixon's gonna

1440
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 2: wind up being the guy who actually gets to become

1441
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 2: president in sixty eight, right, Like, eventually it's not Goldwater

1442
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,719
Speaker 2: but Nixon. And that's another thing that pisses off these people,

1443
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 2: right that Nixon becomes the standard bearer of the Party

1444
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 2: Bury Goldwater, the guy they fucking love does not. And

1445
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 2: that has all set the stage more or less for

1446
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: the man who's going to make the first big crack

1447
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 2: in the dam between Orange County Conservatism and the broader

1448
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 2: National Republican Party. The guy who's going to shatter that

1449
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 2: wall and lead let all of that filth really spill

1450
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 2: into the rest of the country in a big way

1451
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: is a dude named John Schmidtz. And we're going to

1452
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 2: talk about Ja Schmitz in part two. Yeah, so, Francesca,

1453
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 2: that's the end of the episode. Do you have anything

1454
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 2: to plug before we roll out?

1455
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 3: Uh? You know the Situation Room podcast. We're going to

1456
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 3: be live in San Francisco on January twenty eighth, which

1457
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 3: is a Sunday, seven pm at the Gayway Theater. Miles

1458
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 3: Gray of The Daily Zeitgeist will be there. But yeah,

1459
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:20,719
Speaker 3: listen to the situation pod Room, listen to the Bituation

1460
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 3: Room podcast wherever your podcasts, you know, Queue it up.

1461
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 2: Baby, excellent, Yeah, queue it up, queue it out, and

1462
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: also get a Cooler Zone Media subscription to listen to

1463
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 2: this shit without the ads. Just give us Sophie, what

1464
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 2: is it? Seventy thousand dollars a week. Yep, a bargain

1465
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 2: at any price.

1466
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 3: That's deal.

1467
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 2: Uh huh, No, it's less than seventy thousand dollars. That's

1468
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 2: the guarantee that we make.

1469
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1470
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: Or more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1471
01:15:56,040 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 1: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1472
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.