1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: give them another onesie. Don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just going to 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: end up in the garage. Give them something that matters, 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: and what matters the most is protecting their child. What 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: do you love most in the world your children? What 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: with these smartest people I know in the world on 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Give that as a gift, not another onesie. Find out 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: how to protect your child when you're out at the 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: mall or the store, or the grocery, in the parking 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: lot at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: even online. I'd rather have that any day of the 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: week than a plastic toy or god forbid, a toy gun. 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Join Justice Nation. Go to Crime stops here dot com. 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Authorities found Joshua Murray dead 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: in a house fire on December eleventh. Their home on 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: Jamas Street in Iberia is still standing. Miller County Sheriff 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: Louie Gregory tells me the fire was contained to the 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: master bedroom. That's where Joshua was found dead, his body 28 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: in the bed, both heavily damaged by fire. You heard it, 29 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: Joshua Murray found dead in his bed, not from a 30 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: heart attack, not from a stroke, but apparently from a 31 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: house fire. But it is all as it seems. I'm 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being 33 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: with us. To John Limley, crime online dot com. Investigative reporter, 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: something stinks here with me to make sense of it. 35 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: Renowned medical examiner, author of American Narcan and you can 36 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: find that on Amazon. Doctor William Moroney, Jessice Scott Morgan, 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 38 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Judge lawyer anchor Ashley Wilcott. 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: You can find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Back 40 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: to John Limley with Crime Online dot com. John, Let's 41 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: start at the beginning. What happened? Well, Nancy, you mentioned 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: that something stinks with this story, and it begins with 43 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: the smell of smoke at this fatal house fire in Iberia, Missouri. 44 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: This is right on the edge of the Ozarks. It 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: happened at a residence on Janice Drive just after one 46 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: am on Tuesday, December eleventh. When first responders from the 47 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: Iberia Rural Fire Protection District arrived on the scene, there 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: was already heavy smoke coming from the house. Firefighters entered 49 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: the building, and, as they always do during a blaze, 50 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: they conducted a search to see if anyone is still inside. 51 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: It's not long before they did find someone, but it 52 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: was way too late to save him. The body belonged 53 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: to a man later identified as Joshua Murray too. Doctor 54 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: William Maroney joining us. He is around medical examiner and 55 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: author of American Narkent. Doctor Maroney, how many victims? How 56 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: many deceased people have you diagnosed? Have you studied? Have 57 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: you examined that died after a fire? Probably less than 58 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: a hundred, but they're all very after a fire. In autopsy, 59 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: they all look the same. There's carbon particles, in the 60 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: no schools and in the esophagus and the lungs, And 61 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: it's very different than somebody who's had twenty or thirty 62 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: years of smoking. And the man you just triggered a memory. 63 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: The other night, I was asleep, doctor Moroney, and I 64 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: woke up thinking about singed naire's. I just found out 65 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: in nair as a word beside a hair removal, it's 66 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: the hair in your nose. And what this was was 67 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: a guy that totally murdered his wife. He set a 68 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: house fire with accelerant and burned down his mansion. Okay, 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: when the cops and the EMTs pulled up, he was 70 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: across the street, fully dressed. Has happened in the middle 71 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: of the nine His wife had on a ninety He's 72 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: fully dressed, belt, wallet, everything, lounging romanesque in the front store, 73 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: neighbor's yard, and they go what happened? And he gives 74 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: a whole story, and then he goes, oh, yeah, my 75 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: wife's in there. I mean, right then, I knew he 76 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: killed her all right, right then when he did that. 77 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: But long story short, some of the evidence included singed 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: nasal hairs because he let it with accelerant and when 79 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: it blew up, it sings the hair in his nose, 80 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: and he tried to explain that as a backfire with 81 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: the grill. But nothing else was singed, his arms, his clothes, 82 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: his hands, nothing except his nasal hairs. So I woke 83 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night thinking about that guy. 84 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: Sorry for the diversion, doctor William Moroney. Back back to you. Well, 85 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: I've had singed nasal hairs myself when I was a fireman, 86 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: and the smell sits with you. But it smells like 87 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: burning bodies in a house too. It's a very sensual thing, 88 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: burning hair, burning skin. You have it all together, and 89 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: when you go to auta see it still smells the same. 90 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: But before people, if people die before the fire in 91 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: the auchop, you don't okay, wait wait wait wait wait wait, sorry, 92 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: sorry guys, doctor Moroney. After I tried that case, my car, me, 93 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: my trial clothes, everything smelled because I would carry the 94 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: evidence with me everywhere I went so no one would 95 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: tamper with it. I kept it with me. Everything about 96 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: me smelled, my hair, and it wasn't just like, oh 97 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: that smells like somebody burning leaves. It's a funky, dank, 98 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: burning smell. I can't really describe it. You'd have to 99 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: smell it because I can't really think of anything to 100 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: compare it to. But when you're saying that smell, you know, 101 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Plastic and barbecue and dirt. Dirt, Yeah, yeah, Okay, 102 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: go ahead. So when people die because of the fire, 103 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: it's there. The fire injures the body. There's many different 104 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: things that we see. We can see singed eyebrows, we 105 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: can see burnt skin or hair on the arms, exposed 106 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: outside of clothes, shirts, but inside you know that they 107 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: were alive in the fire because they've taken in carbonized 108 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: charcoal particles. Because there's singed parts of the esophagus. And 109 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: that's how you know somebody was alive in a fire 110 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: and they died because of the gas and the superheated 111 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: air and the damage done to the body. If a 112 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: body is found in a fire and an autopsy that's missing, 113 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: that body was dead before the fire was started. So 114 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: if you don't find that in his lungs, he did 115 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: not dive smoke inhalation, that's exactly right. Okay, you know, 116 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: Wilcot judge and lawyer. You can find her at su 117 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. You know, you see cases all the time. 118 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a case where something was off 119 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: and you couldn't really put your finger on it. You 120 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: didn't know what it was, but something was just wrong 121 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: and it turned out that it was absolutely I see 122 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: that a lot as a judge, because these cases come 123 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: before us. Some people have versions of what happened and 124 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: in your gut, and I always say trust your gut. 125 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: And it's like, that doesn't sound right, you know, to 126 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,599 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, you're the forensics expert, you know, and 127 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. There I 128 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: did at Joe Scott. Joe Scott, let me talk to 129 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: you a second about crime scenes. You know, there's just 130 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: nothing like walking onto a fresh crime scene. Well, hopefully 131 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: that nobody's contaminated and messed up. But when you walk 132 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: onto a crime scene, it's like you're reading the best 133 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: book you've ever read, you're watching the best movie you've 134 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: ever watched. You're taking everything in. There's a heightened sense, 135 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: or at least with me, there is, because everything matters. 136 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: The light switch, the footprints, the way that the carpet 137 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: is rubbed one way or the other. Are the curtains, 138 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: the blinds, is the bed made? Is this is that 139 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: there is a stove on? Is there food in the scene? 140 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: I mean everything matters, every little detail. Does it smell 141 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: like coffee? Does it smell like food from last night? 142 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: Does it smell like booze? Does it smell like um drugs? 143 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: Does it smell like a fire? Does it smell like accelerant? 144 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: Tell me what you would be looking for in an 145 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: arson scene, a fire like the one where Joshua Murray 146 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: was found dead in his bed, because unless he was 147 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: a smoker, why would he be dead in his bed? 148 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: And you can tell by the degree of burn where 149 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: the fire started. For instance, is his bedroom more destroyed 150 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: than the rest of the house, Like as you get 151 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: to the living room, it's everything intact except smoke damage, 152 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: but his room is totally burned out. That's how you 153 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: tell where a fire starts. You go to the worst point, 154 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: the point of the worst damage in a fire. But 155 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: tell me what you'd be looking for. Why would this 156 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: have started in his room? Yeah, that's the big question 157 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: with all of these, there are a mystery and fireedesks 158 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: in particular, arson cases are particularly difficult. You know how 159 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: much I hate it when somebody does that. I go, 160 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: tell me what you're looking for, and you go, that's 161 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: the question. I know, that's the question. I want you 162 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: to give me the answer. Here's the answer. What we're 163 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: going to be looking for, our investigators going to be 164 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: looking for. You've already you've already kind of firted out 165 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: the fact that it was in the bedroom. Specifically, we're 166 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: going to go to the area that has the most 167 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: damage within the bedroom. That's going to be the point 168 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: of origin. Many times, let's say, for instance, that it 169 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: started in a particular corner and someone used an agent 170 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: like an accelerant, gasoline, this sort of thing. There's going 171 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: to be a point where that the highest concentration of 172 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: damage will will occur, and it will be the most charred, 173 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: it'll be the most blackened, and sometimes sometimes it'll even 174 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: burn burn through the wall into the exterior wall. So 175 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that we're going to be 176 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: looking for. Their home on Jamas Street in Iberia is 177 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: still standing. Miller County Sheriff Louis Gregory tells me the 178 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: fire was contained to the master bedroom. That's where Joshua 179 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: was found dead. His body and the bed both heavily 180 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: damaged by fire. The State Fire Marshal's office determined it 181 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: was arson. The Fire Marshal's Office head of Canine that 182 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: they've done an area sniff of the exact location where 183 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: they believe the fire started and it indicated there was 184 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: an accelerants used. That's right. The State Fire Marshal's office 185 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: there in Iberia and the Miller County Sheriff's department determined 186 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: an accelerant was used start the fire in the master bedroom. 187 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: Joshua Joshua Murray was found in the room on the bed, 188 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: but an autopsy determined so he did not die of 189 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: smoke inhalation. Let's talk about Joshua Murray for just one moment. 190 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: We know that he was not a smoker. What type 191 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: of accelerant could be used to you, doctor Moroney? Could 192 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: it be, for instance, alcohol, Could it be rubbing alcohol. 193 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: Could it be acetone which is found in fingernail polish remover. 194 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: Could it be shoe polish which has acetone in it? 195 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: What are the common things you find in a home 196 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: that would start a fire. The most important thing, the 197 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: easiest to access thing you could buy that would work, 198 00:12:53,440 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: is an alcohol of a high enough concentration and thinks 199 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: like shoe pola should work, but it's it's thick, it's sticky, 200 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: it's messy, and you never know if if it would spread. Well, 201 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: you want something that's gonna catch a lot of different 202 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: fabric that you can throw on the walls, that you 203 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: can throw on the bed sheets, that you can throw 204 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: on the carpet, because a body really needs to burn 205 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: at eight hundred to one thousand degrees for four or 206 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: five hours before it's indistinguishable. We really have a lot 207 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: of people to try to burn bodies that destroy evidence 208 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: and they don't know jack about how long it takes 209 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: to cook at lower temperatures. It takes days. Your crematorium 210 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: runs sixteen hundred and that fuel is liquid propane, it's 211 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: gas jet fired in a container design. Once you have 212 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: a house that's designed to not burn, that's the thing 213 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: is we build things today to not burn and be 214 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: flame returned. The other easier thing would be lighter fluid 215 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: from the gas grill or gasoline. But the problem with 216 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: gasoline is you would have to ask yourself what the 217 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: hell is that doing in the bedroom? Can I sail? Well? 218 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: I think you did. But here's an important clue to me, 219 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: Remember how I was talking about And I'm gonna say 220 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: this to Joseph Scott, Morgan forensics expert, Joe Scott, this 221 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: is something that really struck me. When cops go into 222 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: the home, they find a McDonald's sandwich on the kitchen 223 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: counter in the home, and they find a McDonald's food 224 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: bag in the trash. Now, I know that may not 225 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: seem like anything important, but the family did not go 226 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: out to McDonald's the night before or that morning. That 227 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: did not happen. So is that doing on the kitchen 228 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: counter and in the trash can now that kind of clue. 229 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: Some people may not even notice it, But to me, 230 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: that's significant. Joe Scott, Yeah, it can be because anything 231 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: that runs outside the norm of what normally happens is 232 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: going to be an indicator that there's something has happened 233 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: within that within that environment that has changed, something that 234 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: somebody has gone outside the realm of their their standard 235 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: behavior relative to their family life and the life within 236 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: that home. Well, to John Limley, what did we find out? 237 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: And you know, I've been waiting to say this, loving 238 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: it about McDonald's. Amy actually took her eleven year old 239 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: son and their two dogs to the McDonald's drive through 240 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: in o Sage Beach. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, 241 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: What time did the wife, Amy Murray, take the children, 242 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: take the son and the dogs to McDonald's. What time 243 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: was that McDonald's video shows eleven forty eight pm when 244 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: they're in the drive through, And what time did the 245 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: fire start? That we can estimate they think just within 246 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: minutes of one o'clock one am, one am. The fire 247 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: happens and she's out at McDonald's around midnight. I want 248 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: to circle back to doctor William Moroney and Joe Scott 249 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: Morgan regarding timing, how you can time when a fire 250 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: started and room for error on either side, but on 251 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: a common sense level. To Ashley Wilcott, judge and lawyer 252 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: anchor at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Ashley, when I was trying, 253 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: I started trying more and more Arson cases because I 254 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: became fascinated with trying to prove them. They're very difficult 255 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: to prove, and I'll tell you why. Number One, you 256 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: have to convince a jury that a crime actually happened, 257 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: that this was no accident. I mean it can be 258 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: said it was electrical, it was a cigarette, it was this. 259 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: It was that it was the Christmas tree. There's a 260 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: million reasons you can say a fire start that our innocent, 261 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: although deadly reasons for home fire. But I started thinking 262 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 1: through all the you know, the scientific evidence in that 263 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: particular Artson case where the man killed his wife, and 264 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, after I looked through the home, 265 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: I didn't see any of his suits or dress shirts. 266 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: My investigator, Ernest, and I started close to the home 267 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: and it was a mansion, and we started moving out, 268 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: and we went to every dry cleaner, every dry cleaner, 269 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: and finally we were getting out to about the three 270 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: to four mile mark, we hit paid dirt because this guy, 271 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: a very wealthy businessman in Atlanta, had taken every single 272 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: dress shirt and suit to the cleaners two days before 273 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: the fire broke out, every dress shirt, every suit he had. 274 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: Also then I realized what else is missing from the home. 275 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: We did a search one on his office, his warehouse 276 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: and found trash bags full of belongings of family, photos 277 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: of his side of the family, not his wife's, all 278 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: hidden in his warehouse. We were there told two to 279 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning, sifting through what we were finding. 280 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: We also found a device where he had been recording 281 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: his wife, a piano teacher, with her new boyfriend. And 282 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't blame her for having a boyfriend for Pete's sake. 283 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: But long story short, it's amazing what common sense evidence 284 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: you find. And in this case, what's sticking out to me, 285 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: Ashley is the dog. The two dogs went that late 286 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: at night to McDonald's. She got the two dogs and 287 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: her son out of the house and went to McDonald's 288 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: and whoops of fire starts. So, Nancy, that's what I 289 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: love about our justice system is not only for forensics, 290 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: not only autopsy findings, but the common sense in the investigation. 291 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: Because I completely agree with you, it is odd, especially 292 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: at that hour you have kids. All of us who 293 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: have kids know at eleven o'clock we don't typically run 294 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: to McDonald's and get everything loaded into the car, especially 295 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 1: the dogs. That one is a huge red flag for 296 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: me as to what was she doing getting everything that's 297 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: important except apparently maybe the husband out of the house. Well, 298 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: this may shed some light on it. Two months after 299 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: a man's body was found in a burned house in Iberia, 300 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: his wife is now charged in his death. Investigators say 301 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: Amy Murray's husband was poisoned. The medical examiner determined that 302 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: Joshua Murray was already dead before that fire even started. 303 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: Amy Murray is charged with first degree murder and armed 304 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: criminal action. Now she's in the Miller County Adult Detention Center. 305 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: Tonight Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Booton County Medical 306 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,719 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office determined Joshua didn't die in the fire. He 307 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: likely died of poisoning from ethel and glycol often used 308 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: as Anna Frieze. Investigators learned Amy was a nurse at 309 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: Jefferson City Correctional Center and had a romantic relationship with 310 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: an inmate. That inmate is behind bars for a second 311 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: degree murder, and investigators found recorded conversations between Amy and 312 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: that inmate through the prisons recording system where she talked 313 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: about not wanting to be around Joshua and wanting a divorce. 314 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: She later was heard saying that she could be with 315 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: this inmate now that Joshua was gone. Okay, you are 316 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: hearing our friends at k RCGTV Megan Sanchez, WHOA what 317 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: a term of events? Straight out to doctor William Maroney, 318 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: let me before I get to the gailhouse. Love affair 319 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: his wife Joshua Murray's wife Amy had fallen in love 320 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: and apparently was having sex with I'll have to clear 321 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: that up with John Limley. An inmate named Eugene Claypool 322 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: behind bars for murder and just for context, he stabbed 323 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: a seventy one year old man dead who had won 324 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: the lottery about one point six million dollars. He stabbed 325 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: him dead. This is who she falls in love with, 326 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: like there aren't other men. That's what I always say, 327 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. I know that you're not a love counselor, 328 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: but I always say, with all the men walking around 329 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: their like buses, and new one comes by every fifteen minutes, 330 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,239 Speaker 1: why do you have to pick a married one? And 331 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: in this case, why do you have to pick an 332 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: inmate behind bars for life on the murder of a 333 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: seventy one year old man. But that is a whole 334 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: nother can of worms, Maroney, let me talk to you 335 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: about ethyl glycol. Ethylene glycol is the most common type 336 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: of ana freeze used in vehicles, and it's also used 337 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: in formulation in some other household cleaners or or um 338 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: automotive products. The toxicity of ethylene glycol is such that 339 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: in approximately a tenth of a can of cocacola, the 340 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: size of the mechanic cocacola. A tenth of that pure 341 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: ethylene glycol will put you into a toxic frenzy. The 342 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: two organs that are damaged the most are the brain 343 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: and the kidney, and you will go into kidney failure. 344 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: And the method of toxicity is it's a very small molecule. 345 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: It's a teening kind it's like like the same size 346 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: as alcohol, very small. When it gets inside of you. 347 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: The damage it creates is it creates crystal that do 348 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: not dissolve, and they are razors sharp. They cut and 349 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: damage functional tissue in the kidneys, and you can no 350 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: longer process toxins fluids. You go into a strong, fulminant 351 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: storm like kidney failure. And in the brain they make 352 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: you just make you dizzy. You can't walk, you lose 353 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: memory on things, you talk much like you're drunk. Because 354 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: it's the same size molecule. And the most interesting thing 355 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: to try to rid the body of ethylene glycol. One 356 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: of the antidotes is alcohol. If you can use alcohol 357 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: to suspend ethylene glycol and slowly metabolize it and take 358 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: it out of the system, The fact that it works 359 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: like that is because the two molecules are so similar. 360 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: Alcohol toxicity and ethylene glycol toxicity are very similar, except 361 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: alcohol toxicity takes hours and days and years, and ethylene 362 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: glycol is almost Let me ask you a question, yes, 363 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: isn't it true that poisoned by antiphrase or ethyl glycol 364 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: is extremely extremely painful when you die of that? The 365 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: answer is it extremely painful because lethylene glycol creates razor 366 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: sharp crystals in the body, and it's like being stabbed 367 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: by a thousand nine. You know, it just pays me. 368 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: It's one thing and bad enough to fall in love 369 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: with an inmate on murder of all the people in 370 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: the world, to kill your husband, but to kill him 371 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: in such a horrible manner. It's really painful. People scream 372 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: when they have been poisoned in this manner. They vomit. 373 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: It's horrible stomach pains as these crystals are attaching to 374 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,239 Speaker 1: your organs. To John Limley, what can you tell me 375 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: about this guy that she allegedly fell in love with? 376 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: It sounds like an eighth grade romance. Yeah, as you 377 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: might imagine, Eugene Claypool was not living in the Jefferson 378 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: City Correctional Facility because of a parking ticket. He, as 379 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: we've noted, had been behind bars for killing a disabled 380 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: seventy two year old man in two thousand. That victim, 381 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: Donald Hardwick, had made some big headlines for winning a 382 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: one point seven million dollar lottery prize in nineteen ninety eight. 383 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: On Christmas Day two thousand, Claypool and another man broke 384 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: into this man's house in search of cash that they 385 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: believed he had their stored in the house. After Hardwick, 386 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: who incidentally relied on a walker to get around, woke 387 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: up and found the men in his home, the other 388 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: man restrained him while Claypool stabbed him to death. And 389 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: this is the truly horrific part. They left a Bible 390 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: on the victim's chest, and when his wife, Edna, got 391 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: up on Christmas morning, she noticed a broken kitchen window. 392 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: She went to tell her husband, who slept in a 393 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: separate room, but that's when she found him dead. Oh, 394 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: Dear Lord in heaven. To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert 395 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet, talk about evidence to 396 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: find him stabbed dead with a bible on his chest, 397 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: and this is the guy she picks to fall in 398 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: love with. Yeah, you know what they say, the grass 399 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: is always greener over the septic tank. In this particular case, 400 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't I don't know what she's thinking. Uh. 401 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: And you know she has this intimate relationship with him 402 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: in a correctional facility, Nancy, where she is a nurse. 403 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, 404 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, you're so prim and proper an intimate relation. 405 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: You mean they were doing it behind bars in the 406 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: gael and what Nancy? I mean, you know, keeping classy, 407 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: keeping classy amy. Yeah, no kids, Wait, hold on, hold on, 408 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: John Leley, is that right? How in the world is 409 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: a gail nurse getting to have sex with an inmate? 410 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: How does that happen? Good question, and it's I'm not 411 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: talking about eighth grade health class. I'm talking about strategically, 412 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: where do you go and not get caught? And it's 413 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: very interesting that Joe Scott use the term intimate because 414 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: that's the exact word that police used in the case 415 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: that they were having a long time intimate relationship. And 416 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: it's so interesting that they chose to do a lot 417 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: of their communicating back and forth when they weren't being 418 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: intimate using the Department of Corrections phone system, which is recorded. Idiots, 419 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: idiots to door. William Moroney, medical examiner, author of American Narcan, 420 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: which is awesome. How steepid can they be? Everybody knows 421 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: cause from cis are recorded. She's a nurse, for Pete's sake, 422 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: at the jail. All you gotta say is they do 423 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: it anywhere they can. They do it in closets, they 424 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: do it in showers, and when women are turned on 425 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: by people like this, it's almost inevitably his tattoos. That's 426 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: what did it? What do you think of that? Okay, 427 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm not going to comment on that. To Joseph Scott Morgan. 428 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: The question I asked Maroney and he chose to go 429 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: off in the direction of closet, showers and tattoos, is 430 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: that all inmate calls are recorded, and Limley is telling 431 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: us that they had this long phone relationship a long 432 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: time before they made physical contact. Yeah. Everything everything that 433 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: you do in these environments. I've investigated death sent them 434 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: on work cases that have immerged out of correctional facilities. 435 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Everything that happens within the walls is in fact recorded. 436 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: And it's interesting that she's a healthcare professional in this environment, Nancy, 437 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: because she gets specific access to him relative to she could, 438 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, treat him if you will, in a treatment area, 439 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: or she could ask for him to be a signed 440 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: to her specific area as like a worker. So they have, 441 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: let's just say, into intimate contact with these individuals. Two, 442 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: doctor William Maroney, Doctor Moroney, when you perform an autopsy 443 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: and you believe the guy has died in a house fire, 444 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: what leads you to check for crystals on their body organs? 445 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: Here's what's an important part of that. All autopsies are 446 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: accompanied with a toxicology panel. Those toxic panels are gonna 447 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: show you chemicals and drugs, just like ethylene glycol. But 448 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: as you it's maybe this is a little gross, But 449 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: you slice the kidney, and you slice the brain, and 450 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: you examine it on the table, and you'll see that 451 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: it's hemorrhaging. The kidneys hemorrhaging. You won't see as much 452 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: with the brain, and you'll ask yourself, why does this 453 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: hide all macerated and what does it look like meat 454 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: balls on the inside. Okay, yeah, you were right, that 455 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: was gross. Thank you. I can keep that in my 456 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: mental imagery all day. In addition to the wife having 457 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: sex with the inmate in those shower at the jail, 458 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: and the tattoos, thank you, Dotor Maroney so much now 459 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: and meatballs, yes, thank you, John Limley Crime online dot 460 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. Okay, bring me forward so I can 461 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: get out of the shower stall and the tattoos and 462 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: the meatballs that the dark world Maroney has dragged me into. Limley, 463 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: what happens now? So how did they put this together? Well, interestingly, 464 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: those conversations we were talking about revealed a lot of 465 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: information about what they were hoping for in the future, 466 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: and that was marriage. This is Amy Murray and you 467 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: Jane marriage. They were he's behind bars for life on murder, right, 468 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: and they were even talking about getting an attorney for 469 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: Claypool so he could be released from prison early. Then 470 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: after Josh Murray is dead, Amy started talking very quickly 471 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: about getting married since her husband of some fifteen years 472 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,479 Speaker 1: was now and these are her words, out of the picture. Okay, 473 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: Now there's a sentimental woman right now. Right there, He's 474 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: out of the picture. What was learned from all of 475 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: their hours and hours of phone calls in the jail, 476 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: John Limley, they were essentially plotting to get the husband 477 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: out of the way so that they could spend the 478 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: rest of their lives together. You know, to you, Jessica Morgan, 479 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Frenzie's expert, how hard is it to retrieve those conversations? Oh, 480 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that it would be difficult at all, Nancy. 481 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: If the police had this individual under suspicion, he's you know, 482 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: he's already subject to control by the state erectional facility, 483 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: and the fact that she is an employee of this place, 484 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: she kind of you don't surrender your rights, but there's 485 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: a certain level of expectation you have and certain understanding 486 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: you have that you're not going to have privacy. And 487 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: the fact that she engaged in this behavior is amazing 488 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: to me because they can get such easy access to this. 489 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: Back to you, John Lemley, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, 490 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: How did the whole thing unfold? So it all starts 491 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: with the medical examiner. When the medical examiner examines the 492 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: body of Joshua Murray, she finds out that he did 493 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: not die from smoke inhalation. Who's not burned alive? He 494 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: didn't die from his stroke or a heart attack. They 495 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: find ethel glycol crystals attached to his body parts, his kidneys, 496 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: and they know immediately that it was anti freeze poisoning. 497 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: Then what happens well, as they link that with the 498 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: fire and her cell phone records, which very clearly give 499 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: a picture of her path that night, they can see 500 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: that well, as we pointed out, she's getting the eleven 501 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: year old and the two dogs out of the house, 502 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: which is very odd, very odd to be going to 503 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: McDonald's on a school night, near close to midnight, going 504 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: to that McDonald's, and then she returns just in time 505 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: to find the house full of smoke, the bedroom on fire. 506 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: She says to police that she could not get inside 507 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: the residence because the smoke was too heavy. And also, 508 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: as we pointed out earlier, those McDonald's video cameras show 509 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: her at the McDonald's and the timing is just a 510 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: little too perfect to be purely coincidental. You know, doctor 511 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: William Moroney, you have been a witnesses so many cases. 512 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: When they show that McDonald's video of her, the two dogs, 513 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: the eleven year old son going through the drive in, 514 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: I would want to say that as a garar over 515 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: and over and over because at that moment she knew 516 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: her husband was dying. At that moment, he's dying and 517 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: it's painful and it's toxic, and trying to cover it up. 518 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: It's just not well thought out. Fire does not cleanse 519 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: and destroy the forensic evidence. By when his body went 520 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: to autopsy. In the first ten minutes of dissection, the 521 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: medical examiner knew that body did not die in a 522 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: fire based on gross examination, and later on we take 523 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: slices of every organ and send them off for microscopic analysis. 524 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: There's toxicology done. Somebody knew that the sus homicide to 525 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: do the death certificate too. Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, 526 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, 527 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: what I find it very peculiar is that they McDonald's 528 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: bag was in the trash. That tells me before she 529 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: called police, she went in and actually throughout the McDonald's 530 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: bag because you remember Shelle cops she couldn't go in 531 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: because it was so smoky. Yeah. Yeah, that that is curious, 532 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: isn't it. And to doctor Moroney's point, this guy, if 533 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: he's not already did, is languishing in there. And one 534 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: of the things that I really wonder is is you 535 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 1: know how long down the road had this? How long 536 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: had she been applying this and freese to him? Was 537 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: it a slow build up? Was it? Did she dose 538 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: him like with this incredible amount? Because keep in mind, 539 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: you know, and freeze is sweet to the taste. That 540 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: that's why you know, there's like seven or eight states 541 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: that have required that that you that an ingredient to 542 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: go into it to make it taste better, so that 543 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: dogs and cats stay away from it, so that there's 544 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: an indication of what you're taking on this woman. This 545 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: picture she's painting here, just through their physical evidence really 546 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: shows that she has a total disregard for this guy 547 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: and that she's lying to the authorities. Eleven year old 548 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: boy now left without a dad. Mommy is in jail 549 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: and Murray charged with first degree murder in the death 550 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: of her husband, Joshua Murray, age thirty seven. This Missouri 551 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: prison nurse accused of poisoning and killing her husband with 552 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: anti freeze to marry her inmate lover, who was serving 553 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: time for murdering a seventy two year old lottery winner. 554 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: You know, it proves fact is stranger than fiction. We 555 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds Nancy Grace crime story, signing off 556 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,