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Speaker 1: Okay, Monday, right? Is it is? It? Is it my day?

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Speaker 1: You tell me? What is it? Thursday? Thursday? Thursday? What's

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Speaker 1: wrong with us? Things? Where to begin? How are you? Never?

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Speaker 1: I'm great? You know I never get to ask you

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Speaker 1: how you are. We just see each other all the time.

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Speaker 1: Never you don't. You don't turn to someone and just

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Speaker 1: say how are you doing? That's true, I guess you

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Speaker 1: know when you see a person all the time, when

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Speaker 1: you ask how are you? Like really asking, you're like

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Speaker 1: tell me everything. You don't tell me that, whereas exactly

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Speaker 1: you're looking for more of like a passing acquaintance, where

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Speaker 1: you go how are you? And they go, I'm good?

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Speaker 1: How about you? And you go I'm great, same old,

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Speaker 1: same old, and like, see you next week absolutely or sometime.

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Speaker 1: I promise I'll call. You can't tell me. There's not

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Speaker 1: somewhere in between those two things, how are you? I'm

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm okay and of sand and I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: to get this done pretty quickly, I guess, so I

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Speaker 1: can move on to other work that I have to do. Wow, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wasting time here. I feel a little stressed out.

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Speaker 1: How you're doing? So that's how I feel all right? Now?

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Speaker 1: That got to see that got a little too much?

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Speaker 1: What's stressing you out, Diana? I just need the perfect answer. God, um,

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Speaker 1: what are we doing well? How are you? I'm good?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I was gonna say, we can share with

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Speaker 1: everyone we've seen some good movies finally, because we saw

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Speaker 1: some some stinkers, we'll we'll leave those out. I don't

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Speaker 1: need to be shipped talking, but I want to. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. We're here to feel good. Nope was

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Speaker 1: super good. Nope was awesome. Yes, I really loved Nope,

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Speaker 1: very very much. A subversion of my expectations, very Spielberg,

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Speaker 1: very Jordan Peel. I mean it was it was both

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Speaker 1: of those. It was just like, it was great so far,

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Speaker 1: really fun and I love their chemistry, and it was

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Speaker 1: just yeah, fantastic, really good movie. Go see it and

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Speaker 1: then I'm never going to stop talking about Pray Pray

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Speaker 1: on Hulu, the Predator prequel. It takes place in like

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Speaker 1: on a Comanche land where the Predator shows up long

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Speaker 1: before the movie Predator took place. Yeah, and it's so good.

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Speaker 1: I can't stop talking about it because it's just such

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Speaker 1: a tight movie. It's so narrow and focused and it

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Speaker 1: just moves. You just always know what's happening, and there's

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Speaker 1: not a bunch of extra bullshit. This movie couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been any shorter than it was at like an hour

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Speaker 1: forty minutes. It's so good. Yeah, please give me a

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Speaker 1: ninety minutes movies again. Yeah, every movie is like two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours now, and sometimes they deserve it

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Speaker 1: and sometimes they don't. Right, I'm fine with it if

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Speaker 1: it needs it, you know, I'd hate for a movie

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Speaker 1: to feel rushed. So if you got a two hour

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Speaker 1: story to two and a half hour story, give it

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Speaker 1: to me, but don't give it to me if you

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Speaker 1: don't need to call an editor, call an editor who

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Speaker 1: tells you to cut things you don't want to cut right,

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Speaker 1: and then listen to him like Marsha Lucas. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: need a good editor in your life. Here we go

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Speaker 1: into an show, yes, um, but yeah, those are the

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Speaker 1: two that really stood out for me. We're also watching

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Speaker 1: The Sandman and Sandman Is. We both read the comics

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Speaker 1: like many years ago. I loved them. Dave McKean amazing

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Speaker 1: art from those comics also, and I think he did

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Speaker 1: another project with Neo Game and that was really cool

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Speaker 1: to Dave McKean. Uh. Yeah. He directed the movie Mirror Mask.

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Speaker 1: Mirror Mask, which is one of my favorite movies. Um,

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Speaker 1: just for its effort. It's so beautiful, it's so unique,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like one of his drawings come to

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Speaker 1: life and it's just a little Alice Wonderline story and

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Speaker 1: I love that as a template. So good. He does

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Speaker 1: have some really cool, like surreal artwork, just very awesome,

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Speaker 1: perfect artists for sand Man obviously, but so far that

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Speaker 1: the TV show has been really good. I was very

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Speaker 1: worried because I liked sand Man a lot, so I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, how can you possibly translate this? But

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Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed it so far. We're like three episodes

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Speaker 1: in or something, I think. So I don't remember the

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Speaker 1: comics at all. I read them in college, so my

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Speaker 1: memories are gone from that era. Um, so I'm watching it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I know I've read this, but absolutely nothing

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Speaker 1: is coming back to me. And I'm loving it. So

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Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't read the comics, I think you'd love

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Speaker 1: it too. Totally agreed. Yeah, agreed, and that's our little

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Speaker 1: pop culture catch up. Yeah, but we've been watching. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did it did what we've been watching? UM so

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Speaker 1: excited to come here today with a story. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk right off the bat before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: because we're gonna, i think probably in the title of

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Speaker 1: this episode already we're kind of interchanging the word monkey

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Speaker 1: and ape. It's true, which, of course, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: totally different things. The rule of thumb is apes never

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Speaker 1: have tails. Monkeys almost always have tails, and apes are smarter.

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Speaker 1: Most apes have tool usage of some sort, and monkeys

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Speaker 1: are dumb. You know, shit at you when you see

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Speaker 1: like those videos. I love these videos in India where

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Speaker 1: monkeys are just like a pest. They're like squirrels or something,

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Speaker 1: just like you're just mind your business and all these

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Speaker 1: monkeys just climbs in your window and steals your breakfast,

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Speaker 1: like what the fun? Like, Oh my god, are there's

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Speaker 1: four hundred monkeys in the road blocking traffic. I love

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Speaker 1: that except that, Yeah, I would much prefer like a

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Speaker 1: seagull to steal my sandwich than a monkey. Monkeys will

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Speaker 1: like bite you and fight you really like crazy. They're

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Speaker 1: crazy out here. These are monkeying around. But apes, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, are slowly plowed at our demise. And

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Speaker 1: to take over the world, and I for one welcomed them.

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Speaker 1: They can't do a worse job, doubtful. Although you know,

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Speaker 1: if we evolved from apes and they evolve, did they

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Speaker 1: just become us? I would I would consider it a

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Speaker 1: take two. Okay, they've they've seen so we we didn't

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Speaker 1: have that luxury of having seen a failed version. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that actually two point oh. They're like, okay, I see

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Speaker 1: all the problems that we went with a lot of

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Speaker 1: glitches on that last Yes, let's do a full reboot. Well,

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Speaker 1: when they find this podcast half buried, half buried in

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Speaker 1: the ocean, by the ocean, half buried by the ocean,

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, what this love? I love it. There

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Speaker 1: is a single unit of this podcast, a physical copy,

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Speaker 1: half buried by the ocean, which I assume means it's

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Speaker 1: half not buried by the right right because part of it. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: how do you know it's there. You'll be able to

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Speaker 1: see it sticking up out of the water. Well, so

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Speaker 1: we're talking about apes today. We are talking about ape today,

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Speaker 1: specifically apes balls, one particular part of the ape, So

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Speaker 1: get ready for that. There's some surgery in this episode

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Speaker 1: that made me very uncomfortable heads up on that could say,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of wrinkles to this story, but why

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Speaker 1: would you? What did I? Why would I not tell

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Speaker 1: him what it's about? All right? So listen. When Charles

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Speaker 1: Darwin published Origin of Species in efty nine, he threw

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Speaker 1: the scientific world into a fervor trying to either prove

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Speaker 1: or disprove his theory of single origin evolution. Then in

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Speaker 1: a German scientist named Hans Friedenthal did a blood cell

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Speaker 1: analysis and he proved that chimps, gorillas, and orangutans were

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Speaker 1: closer biologically to humans than we had originally thought. So

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Speaker 1: all eyes were on apes after that, and apparently the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Russian government in particular tries some weird ship with primates,

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Speaker 1: and one Russian scientist, Serge Vordenov, thought monkey balls would

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Speaker 1: make you live forever, and he grafted testicle tissue from

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Speaker 1: monkeys onto human men's scrotums, saying that it would, you know,

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Speaker 1: help you look younger and live longer, and stuff like, legit,

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Speaker 1: Oh you're looking so dooy and fresh this morning. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I just had the monkey balls scrafted to my scrotum.

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Speaker 1: Well you can tell it looks you look amazing another guy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Ivanov was called Red Frankenstein for his experiments

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Speaker 1: trying to impregnate chimps with human sperm and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: And when these files were declassified by the Kremlin in

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Speaker 1: the nineties after the fall of the USSR, headlines like

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Speaker 1: the Sun in London suggested that this work was really

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Speaker 1: about creating super strong hybrid soldiers for quote Stalin's Mutant

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Speaker 1: ape Army. I mean the original Captain America right. Basically, yes,

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Speaker 1: they were in checked in serums, into things and hoping

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Speaker 1: for the best. Obviously, this is like the dream prompt

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Speaker 1: of a thousand fledgling sci fi writers. The idea grabbed

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Speaker 1: ahold of our imaginations for years afterwards. But what really

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Speaker 1: happened with these sandbags scientists? Let's find out. It's time

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Speaker 1: for some monkey business. Hey the French, come listen. Well,

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Speaker 1: Elia and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking,

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Speaker 1: a romantic tips. It's just about pardiculous relationships, a love.

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Speaker 1: It might be any type of version at all, and

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Speaker 1: abstract const a concrete wall. But if there's a story,

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Speaker 1: were the second Glance ridiculous rolesque a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio? Should we do it cover the song that's

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Speaker 1: just Us Going Beautiful. I hope you recorded that because

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should, but I think we should

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Speaker 1: share that. All complaints can be forwarded to iHeart me alright.

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Speaker 1: The first guy that we're going to cover is Ilya Ivanov,

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Speaker 1: our Red Frankenstein human z experiment er. He was born

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Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy in Curse, Russia, and he graduated from

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Speaker 1: Kharkiv University in eighteen six. He concentrated his research efforts

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Speaker 1: in bacteriology at the Institute pissed Her in Paris before

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Speaker 1: he worked with the world famous physiologist Ivan Pavlov. Oh

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Speaker 1: I just started drooling, okay. Now, Pavlov was hard at

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Speaker 1: work on his experiments with digestion, conditioning, all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: while Ivanov was helping to pioneer the brave new world

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Speaker 1: of artificial insemination and using some of the same surgical

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Speaker 1: practices as Pavlov. Ivanov was able to successfully extract animal

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Speaker 1: sex glands and develop techniques to artificially inseminate pure bred horses.

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Speaker 1: He was able to prove that artificial insemination was more

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Speaker 1: efficient than natural insemination. One stallion could possibly impregnate twenty

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Speaker 1: to thirty mayors naturally, while Ivanov could use one stallion

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Speaker 1: to inseminate five hundred mayors. Oh my goodness, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot more that stallion has. Too many little stallions runned,

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Speaker 1: Nick Cannon, that's gonna say, or Elon Musk apparently right,

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Speaker 1: it's not my child. I live to procreate the he's

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Speaker 1: on horse, Mori, you are the father, alright. So this

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Speaker 1: was hot stuff because pure bred horses. I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: still worth a lot of money today, but back then,

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Speaker 1: horses were like, hello, the main form of transportation. Also,

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Speaker 1: they were like essential for farm labor, which was kind

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Speaker 1: of important. So from right exactly, So it was really

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Speaker 1: noteworthy that this guy had a way to get five

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Speaker 1: mayors pregnant with just one stallion. His theories were expanded

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Speaker 1: to include more farm animals, and Ivanov became internationally famous

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Speaker 1: as the leading expert on artificial insemination for the first AI. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the articles keep saying like he used

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Speaker 1: his work in AI to DA and I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: you just can't use this. You can't say that anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a different things. That makes that Spielberg movie with

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Speaker 1: Haley Joel Osmond very different. Artificial insemination starring Jude Law.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. It would sell out quick. Okay,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would probably select Jude Laws. There

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Speaker 1: don'tor now. It wasn't long before this guy's scientific mind

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Speaker 1: started wondering what else he could do with a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of sperm. He thought that he could probably crossbreed

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Speaker 1: closely related species to create novel types of domestic animals, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the multipoo or or something like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like the first guy to go, what

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Speaker 1: what if we take dog and make it slow it

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Speaker 1: can no longer breathe? That sounds so cute. I would

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Speaker 1: love to have one in my birth. Adorable crushed face,

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Speaker 1: total respiratory ailment permanently. I love a Storis dog. But

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Speaker 1: he did create the z dunk, which is a zebra

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Speaker 1: donkey hybrid and an awesome animal. Say totally hang out

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Speaker 1: with z do right, So thank you Ivanov for the

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Speaker 1: z donc He also created a zoobron, which is a

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Speaker 1: cross between a European bison and a cow, and he

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Speaker 1: made various combinations of rats, mice, s, guinea pigs, and rabbits.

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Speaker 1: Now it is so illogical. Conference In nineteen ten, he

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Speaker 1: first floated the idea that it might be possible. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I did it with rats, I did it with zebras

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Speaker 1: and donkeys. I bet you I can make hybrid of

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Speaker 1: human and ape, our closest animal relatives, Ivanov, I think

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Speaker 1: you'll need another vodka had three bottles already. This is

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Speaker 1: when I came up with the idea. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until that Ivanov got the chance to put his theory

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Speaker 1: to the test. Now, by then Russia had gone through

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Speaker 1: two revolutions that had deposed the czar and established several

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Speaker 1: political parties, and then they went through a very bloody

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Speaker 1: civil war between the far left Bolshevik Party and the

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Speaker 1: other factions that had sprung up after the revolution. By

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Speaker 1: the Bolsheviks had one and they reorganized themselves as the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party of the Soviet Union that we all know

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Speaker 1: and love. They created a whole army of James bond

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Speaker 1: Villain's there you going. Ivanov was at the Institute Pasture

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Speaker 1: working on sperm disinfection when the institute offered him a

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Speaker 1: great opportunity to try out his human hybrid theories. There's

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Speaker 1: a few people whose sperm I'd like to where's all

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Speaker 1: that research. Now, the institute couldn't provide any cash money

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Speaker 1: for travel or operational expenses, but they did have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of chimpanzees available at a facility in French Guinea,

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Speaker 1: which was the French colonized area of West Africa. Now,

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Speaker 1: I have to point out that at this time, primate

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Speaker 1: researchers like Ivanov and others did not just stick with chimpanzees. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: they ascribed to a polygenetic theory of human evolution, which

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Speaker 1: believed that each race of humans evolved from different species

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Speaker 1: of ape. Okay, so like your race, your skin color

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Speaker 1: had something to do with your ape ancestor, so Asian

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Speaker 1: people were from some type, white people were from another type. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this they believed orangutans should be crossed with humans of

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Speaker 1: the quote yellow race, guerrillas with humans of the black race,

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Speaker 1: chimpanzees with the white race, and gibbons with quote the

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Speaker 1: more brack is cephalic peoples of Europe, which probably meant

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Speaker 1: Jewish people. Okay, so this was not just a very

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Speaker 1: racist theory of evolution, but they were like, how can

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Speaker 1: we make this more racist through our terminology? It also

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Speaker 1: really makes no sense because I was like, well, maybe

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Speaker 1: has something to do with like the country of origin

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Speaker 1: of the species of ape. Like you know, they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, guerrillas are from Africa, so they should be

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Speaker 1: with African people and then whatever. But like orangutans in

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Speaker 1: gibbons and stuff are all from Indonesia and Asia. So

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Speaker 1: it's like, how it really just said? It makes no sense,

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Speaker 1: Like it makes no sense of I'm checking my zoology

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Speaker 1: book here, and I don't believe chimpanzees are indigenous to England. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't. Scandinavia. Don't think they have a lot of

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Speaker 1: chimpanzees swinging around Denmark. I agree. I agree with that.

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Speaker 1: I will say that Charles Darwin himself, he was like,

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Speaker 1: it's a single origin theory and not a multiple origin theory.

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Speaker 1: He was like, I don't believe that the races have

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Speaker 1: a different ancestor we all have the same ancestor we're

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Speaker 1: all the same species. That is the dumbest should ever heard.

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Speaker 1: One guy named Doug kind Doug, that's my single origin.

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Speaker 1: The picked up a stick and everything changed. So at

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Speaker 1: any rates, there are a lot of different types of

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Speaker 1: apes being used in these experiments. Um Ivanov specifically wanted

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Speaker 1: to use chimpanzees. But at any rate, he figured without

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Speaker 1: any money, he wouldn't get very far to get to

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Speaker 1: these monkeys. So he pitched his experiments to the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Financial Commission and the Soviet Academy of Sciences, saying that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to test the hypotheses as some of these

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Speaker 1: existing scientific theories. Now Scientific American says that he wanted

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Speaker 1: to build on Hans Friedenthal's nineteen blood cell analysis that

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Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier. Hans had also said that the reproductive

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Speaker 1: cells of primates and humans could possibly be compatible. So

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Speaker 1: Ivanov was like, let's find out for sure. If you

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Speaker 1: could just fill this small cup for me, there are

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Speaker 1: some magazines in the bedroom. Just let me know when

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Speaker 1: you're finished. Clearly label your sample. Police, don't forget to

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Speaker 1: lock door, because last time very embarrassing. We've had the

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Speaker 1: men the accidents. Doug was here, whole disaster um. There

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Speaker 1: was also this Dutch zoologist and a German sexologist, and

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Speaker 1: they had separately proposed experiments where they were going to

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Speaker 1: win seminate chimpanzee females with human sperm to see if

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Speaker 1: they would get pregnant. Now, neither of these two ever

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Speaker 1: made it past the planning stages, and that Dutch zoologist

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Speaker 1: actually got fired from his teaching position just for suggesting it.

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Speaker 1: The Danes were like, not here, we don't do that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we have recently decided that when there's something rotten in

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Speaker 1: the state at Denmark, we are going to stomp it

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Speaker 1: out quickly. Okay. But with Ivanov's pitch there was also

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Speaker 1: this added political element because he also said that if

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Speaker 1: he could prove that chimps and humans were biologically compatible,

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Speaker 1: this would prove Darwin's theory of evolution and that would

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Speaker 1: be a real disk to religion. And the Bolsheviks themselves

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Speaker 1: were atheist, so this sounded great to them. They were like, well,

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Speaker 1: in terms of stumping up the Agin, this is kind

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Speaker 1: of big win for us, right, Russian Orthodox Church was

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Speaker 1: pretty big over there. That's a big, big change to

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Speaker 1: try to make in your citizens. I think we're all

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Speaker 1: watching The Great right exactly. Spindle guy has all sorts

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Speaker 1: of plans, so many long tongue creepy beard. Also side

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Speaker 1: note that actor who plays the head priest on The

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Speaker 1: Great is the voice of the chimp on The Umbrella Academy.

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Speaker 1: So it all ties together a single, single origin and

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Speaker 1: it's that guy, he's Doug. The Soviet government may have

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Speaker 1: been interested in this proposal regardless of the religious angle, though,

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Speaker 1: because New Scientist quotes Alexander Atkins, a Soviet born specialist

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Speaker 1: in Russian history at the University of Cambridge, pointing out

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Speaker 1: that high ranking Bolsheviks believed that science could help them

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Speaker 1: achieve a socialist to utopia. Edkins says, quote, politicians could

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Speaker 1: change the political system, nationalized industries, and turn farms into

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Speaker 1: vast collectives, but the task of transforming people was entrusted

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Speaker 1: to scientists. The aim was to match people to the

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Speaker 1: socialist design of Soviet society. So, yeah, Soviet science was

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Speaker 1: really interested in what's called positive eugenics. Positive so positive

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Speaker 1: with big smiley emojis. Yeah, just gotta be upbeat about

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Speaker 1: your eugenics. I'm more of a glass half full egist. Now,

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Speaker 1: what what that means is that you're breeding for for

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Speaker 1: certain characteristics, as opposed to the Nazis negative eugenics, which

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Speaker 1: is where you sterilize or kill people with undesirable traits

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Speaker 1: um so that they won't be able to reproduce those

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Speaker 1: traits um. So it's it just means you're breeding for

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Speaker 1: or against positive still has the same eugenics problem of

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Speaker 1: someone deciding what is a positive tread yes and this

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Speaker 1: and saying if you aren't allowed to reproduce anymore than

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Speaker 1: the world is better. It's quite a statement. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: at this time, they were still all about eugenics, and

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Speaker 1: the Soviets were really hoping to breed people who liked

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Speaker 1: living and working communally. We're not competitive or greedy or

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Speaker 1: had any desire to own property. This kind of led

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Speaker 1: some people to say instead of breeding a super strong

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Speaker 1: mutant ape army, they were actually trying to create the

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Speaker 1: perfect Soviet worker who was dumb, strong, and obedient. Edkins Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Edkins thinks this is the main motivation for both Ivanov

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Speaker 1: and the Soviet regime. So there's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: reasons people think that they were into this idea, but

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Speaker 1: he thinks this is the main one quote. Like many others,

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Speaker 1: Ivanov was swept along by the Bolshevik dream. So he

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Speaker 1: kind of feels that they all deluded themselves into thinking

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Speaker 1: that they could breed need a new society. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you get what they're going for, right, living

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Speaker 1: and working communally with no desire to own property and

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Speaker 1: stuff like First of all, these aren't genetic traits. I

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Speaker 1: don't think. I think a lot of them are learned traits.

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Speaker 1: And sure you could say maybe people have a predisposition

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Speaker 1: for it. I don't know, but it seems like these

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Speaker 1: are more environmental traits. I don't think you can breed

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Speaker 1: out someone's desire to own property, because that's not a

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Speaker 1: natural I don't think so either. Well, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: and the main thing is that you're saying mammals. You know,

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Speaker 1: these mammals are social creatures. They need each other they live,

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Speaker 1: and that for safety and all that. But so are we, like,

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Speaker 1: we are also social creatures. We have that already inherently

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Speaker 1: in us. It's just additional societal human things that we

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Speaker 1: put on ourselves that make us want to own property

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Speaker 1: and feel competitive with one another and all that. Right,

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Speaker 1: They're just like no loaners, none of you weird kids

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Speaker 1: who have lunch all alone, the corner of emo hair styles. Well,

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Speaker 1: whatever the motivation, Ivanov's proposal was accepted. He was given

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Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars by the Soviet Financial Commission, and then,

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Speaker 1: along with his son, he went off to a research

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Speaker 1: facility in Western Africa to get going on his own experiments.

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Speaker 1: But when he got there, he realized that all the

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Speaker 1: big talk about this special scientific facility had been greatly exaggerated.

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Speaker 1: He gets there and guess what, there's only two veterinarians

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Speaker 1: on staff. He also discovered documentation that around seven hundred

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Speaker 1: chimpanzees had been bought from hunters since the station was

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Speaker 1: founded in nine but more than half of them had

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Speaker 1: died before they could be shipped to Paris to be

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Speaker 1: experimented on. Because like also, once it had been discovered

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Speaker 1: that apes were our closest biological relative, all the scientists

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Speaker 1: were like, oh my god, get me some apes, because

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Speaker 1: they became the preferred species which to test things that,

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Speaker 1: you know, to make sure they were safe for humans,

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Speaker 1: like vaccines, other medicines, French lipstick, fumes, those big poofy collars. Uh,

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Speaker 1: new sitcoms. They would show him sitcoms and be like

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Speaker 1: they weren't laughing. Better put Kevin James in there. See

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Speaker 1: if we can't add to it. They all clapped. When

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00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: he's all clapped Kevin, it's like he's one of their own.

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Speaker 1: For Kevin James, what did he do to serve Paul Blart?

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Speaker 1: That's what he did. I wish he'd make a movie

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Speaker 1: about this and we could call it Paul Blart Ball

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Speaker 1: cop Ball cop Oh my god. Okay. So, on top

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Speaker 1: of everything else, Ivanov learned that the chimps that were

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Speaker 1: still alive had been kidnapped as infants. They were still

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Speaker 1: too young to breed. Also the whole reason I can't write. Also,

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Speaker 1: the staff of the research station were openly hostile to

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Speaker 1: ivan Off because they thought that he was going to

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Speaker 1: report back to Institute paste about all the terrible conditions,

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Speaker 1: which I kind of hope he did. Jeez. So, according

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Speaker 1: to an article in New Scientists by Stephanie Paine, Ivanov

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00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: actually went back to Institute Pasteur for a few months

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00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: to study various ways to capture and subdue chimps. I

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00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: guess that's pretty important. And he also worked with Serge Waranoff,

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00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: our monkey ball rejuvenation guy. We're going to talk about

405
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: him in a little bit, but they spent their summer

406
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: together making headlines by transplanting a human woman's ovary into

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Speaker 1: a chimp called Nora and then inseminating Nora with human sperm.

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00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: So kind of Nora to volunteer for this, I'm sure,

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00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure she raised her hand real quick. Those documents around. Yeah,

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00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: I guess it did not work, unsurprisingly, but because by

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00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: November he was heading back to try again with these

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Speaker 1: young chimps in French Guinea. This time he inseminated three

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Speaker 1: chimpanzees with human sperm and waited hopefully for a man

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00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: a hybrid egg to attach itself. Listen, I gotta ask

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Speaker 1: who is supplying all of this sperm because he's got

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00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: sperm coming out of his nose. Oh, that's a whole

417
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: other medical problem that he needs to check out. Where

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00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: did they graft the monkey balls hoops? See knife slipped

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00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: speculation station. I think Ivanov himself would bring in a

420
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: little sample every day I'm trying to create my son.

421
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: But he's also a scientist, right so they feel, you know,

422
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: you can't just use one source. You have to try many, right, right,

423
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: you need a control group? And yeah, so do you

424
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: think that he would ask all his lab assistance like, hey,

425
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: before you sit down, you know what you gotta do.

426
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: Morning cup of coffee, Morning cup of And they were

427
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: all like, this is the best job I've ever had. Well, anyway,

428
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: no dice, not a single chimp person into Ivanhof with

429
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: a hairy baby to call his own, and there weren't

430
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: enough chimps available to continue the experiment unless oh yes. Unfortunately,

431
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: Ivanov had the worst idea of his life when he decided, Hey,

432
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: if I can put the human sperm intut chimps, I

433
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: can put chip sperm into humans. It works both way,

434
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: the transitive property of human apes barn, you go up

435
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: the stairs, you go down the stairs, they both, they

436
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: do both, and so ivan offous thinking, well, I kind

437
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: of can't assume that any human woman out there would

438
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: ever volunteer for this. So I just picked some random

439
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: African women from nearby area and pretend we're doing a

440
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: routine medical examination, then pump them full of chimp spurn

441
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: without their knowledge or consent. Easy peasy. He pitched this

442
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: idea to a local hospital, and of course you got

443
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: to imagine medical professionals would be like, absolutely not. I

444
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: swore an oath do no harm, I will not allow

445
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: such experiments. But no, they completely agreed and he got

446
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: permission to do it. Fortunately, the general governor of French Guinea,

447
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: Paul Porra, stepped in and said no, absolutely more no

448
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: to this bullshit, and that left ivan Off without any

449
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: money or options, so he and his son decided to

450
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: make like Meryl Streep and get out of Africa. Now, okay,

451
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: this is where all the sources start to diverge on

452
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: what happened here, because in Scientific American they say that

453
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: he asked for women to volunteer to be impregnated with

454
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: chimp sperm, and he found at least one to participate.

455
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Now in New Scientists, it says that only three of

456
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: the chimps survived the journey to Russia, and by the

457
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: time he had five volunteers ready, the only male among

458
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: them died of a brain hemorry, so he didn't have

459
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: any chimp sperm to work with. Yeah, he sent them

460
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: all letters like sorry waiting for sperm, please hold. But

461
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: then an article from Brown University's Laboratory Primate Newsletter says

462
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: that the research facility quote received letters from individuals of

463
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: both sexes volunteering to give themselves to the research, but

464
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: no claim as to specific events or individuals was ever forthcoming. Right,

465
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: so did he get one volunteer five volunteers? No volunteers

466
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: like volunteers, but they never showed up anything? Right, or

467
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: like it's so funny that it's both sexes to like,

468
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: why what. Dude was like, yeah, I'm pregnant me. Do

469
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: you not have any idea? What the fuss going on?

470
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: And they're like, let's see if we can put a

471
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: chimp uterus into you and killed ourselves a junior situation.

472
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, would love a man ape junior situation.

473
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: Can we please have that movie when Kevin James is

474
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: James is the ape who gives their uterus up to

475
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: Arnold Sports, So I thought he would have the baby.

476
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: I thought James is gonna but I thought Kevin James

477
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: might play the baby. Oh he's he's the he's the hybrid. Yeah,

478
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: they just CG. That's like the really bad CG from

479
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: what we do in the Shadows. So they put his

480
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: face a little chimp baby. I'm ready for this. I mean,

481
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why we don't have a studio or

482
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: we can produce once again. HBO. Max has been listening

483
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: to the show. They are in touch regularly about giving

484
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: us all kinds of deals. I mean when I say

485
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: in touch, they haven't actually emailed us, but I imagine

486
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: that they have drafts. I feel like they thought about

487
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: They've got so much going on over there right now,

488
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: we just got away for the dust to settle, and

489
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: then there will be plenty of shows. They're actually they're

490
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: changing it all up so they can make room for

491
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: our program kind of. I mean, you know some n

492
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: d as we're not supposed to talk about it too much,

493
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: but HBO is just making room for us. Is actually

494
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: as you're not a afiliated with me, all right. But

495
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: then Ilya Ivanov was caught up in revolutionary politics. The

496
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: scientific faction, including Herman Mueller, who supported Ivanov's experiments. They

497
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: were hoping that his genetic discoveries would help Soviet scientists

498
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: figure out what qualities to select for in their positive eugenics.

499
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: So he's like, this is going to be really important work.

500
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: He's telling Stalin, like this guy is awesome. Meanwhile, there's

501
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: an opposing scientific faction who believed that any genetic research

502
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: at all ever, would lead straight to fascism, and Stalin

503
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: believed the latter. That led to a huge purge among

504
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: scientists in primate research. Herman Mueller had to flee Moscow

505
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: after advocating for Ivanov. Several of his colleagues were rounded

506
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: up and shot. Scientific Americans says that an investigation into

507
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: Ivanov uncovered his idea to inseminate African women without their consent,

508
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: and they had concluded that his behavior quote might undermine

509
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: the trust of Africans in European researchers and doctors and

510
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: make problematic any further expeditions of Russian scientists to Africa.

511
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: But of course Ilya was not in Africa anymore. Um

512
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: So this kind of sounds to me like, oh, we

513
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: came up with a really good excuse to get rid

514
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: of somebody who we already wanted to get rid of.

515
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: It just didn't have a good excuse. But here's a

516
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: great one. But at any rate, Ivanov was caught up

517
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: in this purge. He was exiled to Kazakhstan in nineteen

518
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: thirty They said, you have no choice but to Stan's

519
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: Diana does gen z hum. Yeah, that's medium TikTok stuff. Anyway.

520
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: He worked there in Kazakhstan for a zoological institute until

521
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: his death from a stroke in nineteen thirty two. And

522
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: he actually was absolved of all the claims against him

523
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: a few years later, and Pavlov wrote his obituary Pavlov

524
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: is a really big anti communist, and be as he

525
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: was so respected, they let him get away with saying

526
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy shits about them. Now. In two

527
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: Dmitri Shostakovich even sketched out an opera called Orango about

528
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: these experiments, and it had a libretto written by Tolstoy,

529
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: real whose of Russian writers. Only about forty minutes of

530
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: it exists and it was wholly abandoned by everyone involved.

531
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: But in two thousand eleven it was actually staged by

532
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Philharmonic. I wish I'd seen it. The

533
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: l A Times describes the plot as this quote the

534
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: rise and fall of Orango, a k a. Jean Or,

535
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: a human ape hybrid who becomes a virulent anti communist

536
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: and newspaper baron through a combination of sleazy journalism, stock

537
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: exchange swindles, and ruthless blackmail, before his corrupted humanity causes

538
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: him to revert back to his best deal nature. He

539
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: has then put in a cage and displayed as a

540
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: cautionary tale. So this sounds like the basis for Dunstan

541
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: checks exactly hit Orangutan comedy of I want to say,

542
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: Jason Alexander and a monkey in a hotel ape excuse me, Orangut.

543
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting how they're like, as soon as the ape

544
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: became human, he became an anti communist, even though the

545
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: whole point is to make people who want to be

546
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: communists because of their ape tendencies. And then I love

547
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: the idea of an ape doing stock market. I just

548
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: want a m on the wall street, like bye bye bye.

549
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: He's got the little tie and glasses. He's sitting in

550
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: a big yeah, throwing papers everywhere. So you know, that's

551
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: just one crazy Russian scientist and his ape experiments. But

552
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: we also have our friend, says Voronov, to talk about,

553
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: and he thought monkey testicles could make you live forever.

554
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and come back with

555
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: that right after this. Alright, apes and monkeys, welcome back

556
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 1: to the show. Yea, and Serge Voronov is the name

557
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: and monkey balls of the game. Now. Serge Voronov was

558
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: born in Russia in eighteen eighty six, but when he

559
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: was eighteen he moved to France and he became a

560
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: citizen in eight So people are like, he's a French scientist.

561
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: Russian science are the two countries fighting for him being

562
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: connected them or against Well, the Russians are like, no,

563
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: he's French scientists. I think depends on which part of

564
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: his life we're talking about. He studied originally under transplant

565
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: pioneer Alexis Kerrill, which is what got him interested in

566
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: the possibilities of using animal to human hormone transfers to

567
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: restore people to youth and vigor Then, in eighteen eighty nine,

568
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: he started working with a seventy two year old experimental physiologist,

569
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: Charles Edouard brown Sequard. This guy also thought that animal

570
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: glands had something to offer human beings, and now he

571
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: gave a lot to science about how the spinal cord works.

572
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: He was the first to theorize the existence of hormone,

573
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: but unfortunately he's best known for this little experiment. The

574
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: same year Voronov started working with him, Brown Sequard injected

575
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: himself with a serum made up of crushed up matter

576
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: from the testicles of guinea pigs and dogs and told

577
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: an entire scientific meetings worth of people that it helped

578
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: with rejuvenation and prolonged life. He said that it renewed

579
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: his own muscle strength, and then he even told them

580
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: that he had passed to the final test by quote.

581
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: Paying a visit to his young wife just hours before

582
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: this lecture, which I love the idea of him mean,

583
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: like and fellows, I God laid before I showed up

584
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: here and Dick worked great, all exactly. I love this.

585
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: The idea of this guy too, going to his wife, Honey,

586
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: are you ready? I just injected myself with guinea pigs testicles?

587
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: She's like, oh la la, now this this like this

588
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: serum was not very well received by the scientific community.

589
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: It became known derisively as the Brown Sequard elixir. One

590
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: newspaper jokingly likened it to post Leon's search for the

591
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: Fountain of youth. Another said quote, the lecture must be

592
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: seen as further proof of the necessity of retiring professors

593
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: who have attained their three score and ten years little ages.

594
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: But I mean, like this old man needs to go

595
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: light out. At a certain point, you just start trying

596
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: to justify your job in the industry, making some crazy

597
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: sh up doing the most right now. The widespread ridicule

598
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: of the serum and the fact that it did not

599
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: really have the anti aging properties that they were hoping for,

600
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: made Voronoff decide that tissue grafting would be a much

601
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: more effective treatment than injections. So in eighteen ninety six,

602
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: Voronov moved to Egypt and started studying eunuchs. According to

603
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: a two seven scientific paper, he quote noted their obesity,

604
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: lack of body hair, and broad pelvis is, as well

605
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: as their flaccid muscles, lethargic movements, memory problems, and lowered intelligence.

606
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm thinking back to several stories we've done about a

607
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: real smart eunuch. Hear the whole places bids. I'm just like,

608
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: whatever you say. But Voronov blamed all these things on

609
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: their lack of testicles, which he assumed deprived eunuchs of

610
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: all important glandular excretions. God, I'm no geneticist, but I

611
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: can tell you that's false. Um. In his nine book,

612
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: Life A Study of the me Means of Restoring Vital

613
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: Energy and Prolonging Life, which is a terrible title, not

614
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: an English major, I guess now he's like, I just

615
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: need to lay out the fact. So in this ridiculously

616
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: titled book, he wrote, quote, the sex gland stimulates cerebral

617
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: activity as well as muscular energy and amorous passion. It

618
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: pours into the stream of the blood, a species of

619
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: vital fluid which restores the energy of all the cells

620
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: and spreads happiness. A healthy sexual gland tissue grafted onto

621
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: the testicles of an aging man basically injected us with

622
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: the vitality of youth. But not only that, he also

623
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: believed that it could cure impotence, sinility, and schizophrenia. He

624
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: also thought it could radically prolonged lives and improve your

625
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: sex drive. Truly a miracle cure step right eye. The

626
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: question is what can't it do. It'll your baldness, It'll

627
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: it'll make you grow an extra arm. Whoa who doesn't

628
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: need one of those? It'll try up your sinuses and

629
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: He spent fourteen years working and studying at an Egyptian

630
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: hospital before he returned to France, and then around nineteen seventeen,

631
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 1: he started to receive funding from a wealthy American named

632
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: Evelyn Bostwick, which gave him his chance to start experimenting

633
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: on transplants on animals because they were expensive to get.

634
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: You know, get the actual apes and put them somewhere

635
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: and take care of them and all that. Evelyn also

636
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: translated that terribly titled book into English. She's just a

637
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: real big fan of his work. I love monkey balls.

638
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: She's She's like, figure out what I need to smear

639
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: on my face. I looked young again. Voronov performed over

640
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: five hundred operations where he transplanted testicular tissue from young

641
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: horses and sheep to older horses and sheep and was like,

642
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: look now they're they're back to their old strength again.

643
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: They're neighing louder, they're running faster, they're bigger than they

644
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: used to be, all that kind of thing. And during

645
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: the course of all these experiments, he decided that primates

646
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: were the perfect transplant option for humans thanks to all

647
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: those biological similarities we talked about, And in nineteen fifteen,

648
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: he implanted a chimpanzee thyroid gland to a mentally disabled

649
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: boy in France and claimed that over the course of

650
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: a year, the boy's mental faculties returned to normal. He

651
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: was no longer mentally disabled, which not a lot of

652
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: proof to back up that claim. It was just a

653
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: picture before and after, and the kid looks a little older.

654
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, and it doesn't look like much changed,

655
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: but okay, wow, now okay. Vordov started his testical transplantation

656
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: with human to human tests. At first, he used the

657
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: tests of executed criminals and transplanted them into aging millionaires. Honestly,

658
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm surprised at this point the millionaires weren't like, no,

659
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to become a criminal, like you know,

660
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: like like like what's that Simpsons where Homer gets the

661
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: hair transplant from snake and the hair connects to his

662
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: brain into a killer, which actually people did think that.

663
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: I did too. He thought that it could. He wanted

664
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: to test it anyway. He was like, maybe that will

665
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: give you certain characteristics of the donor, right, um, But

666
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: I guess it was just the balls he could get

667
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: his hands on. At the time. Well, this became a

668
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: very popular experiment. I guess a lot of rich folks

669
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: thought this was a great idea, and the demand for

670
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: the procedure soon outstripped the supply of dead criminals balls.

671
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: So Vornov knew he had to find a new source

672
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: of nords for his marbles magic, so naturally, he turned

673
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: to apes. His first official implantation was June twelfth of

674
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: nineteen t He he took giving you this paragraph. He took.

675
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: He took thin slices of testicles from chimp, from chimpanzees

676
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: and baboons, and he implanted them inside the patients scrowed um. Right. Yeah,

677
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: he believed that the thinness. God, he believed that the

678
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: thinness of the tissue would help the body fuse with

679
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: it instead of rejecting it. I mean, at least he

680
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: thought of that. It's just like, oh, oh, I feel

681
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: so much younger. There's a thin slice of eight balls

682
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: in my scrowed um. God, I know, very craft. I

683
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: mean the discomfort, like, there's no way this isn't weeks

684
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: of recovery. Right. It does not say, but I would

685
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: assume that. I mean, it seems like quite a thing

686
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: to do to cut your scrotum open or cut it

687
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 1: in any way. All right, let's stop, let's stop. There's

688
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: a big here for four and off. Because he also

689
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: married the American heiress and his biggest supporter, Evelyn Bostwick,

690
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: same year. What a what a time. Wow, He was like,

691
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: I need to celebrate my first tectical transfer with a

692
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: nice wedding night. But Evelyn sadly died only a year later,

693
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: and her daughter, who was a gender nonconforming lesbian speedboat

694
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: racer named Marian Joe Carstairs who is definitely getting her

695
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: own episode at some point. She maintained for the rest

696
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: of her life that Vornov had killed her mother for

697
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: the money, and there was no evidence to back this up.

698
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: But Evelyn did leave Vornov a considerable inheritance and a

699
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: large income for the rest of his life. So you know,

700
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: speculation station he killed that woman, he killed her. I mean,

701
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think. He doesn't strike

702
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: me as a killer. But but he needed that money,

703
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: need that money needed to buy those monkey balls. Monkey

704
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: balls aren't cheap. He's like, listen, I know that you

705
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: pay for everything. I'll ready, But like, what if I

706
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: could just use it however I wanted. I guess that's

707
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: my question, is like he she was already covering his expenses,

708
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,959
Speaker 1: right unless that year of time she started to get real,

709
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: like particular about how he was spending his money or

710
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: something the money or something like maybe, but otherwise she

711
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: seemed to be so into it. What would be the point?

712
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: All right? Well, anyway, by four and Off was the

713
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: director of the experimental laboratory at the College de France.

714
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: Seven hundred of the world's leading surgeons at an international

715
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: conference in London applauded his work rejuvenating old men. I mean,

716
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: this guy was internationally respected for the work he was doing,

717
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: and his work was so in demand that a facility

718
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: in Africa was set up solely to capture and maintain

719
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: apes for gland transfers, and that could actually be the

720
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: exact same facility in French Guinea that Ivanov went to,

721
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: because there weren't that many of these like primate reserves

722
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: already existing at this time. They were starting to get

723
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: set up over these years, but um, there weren't that many,

724
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: so it could be the exact same hospital. Also, one

725
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: of the rumors around Ivanov's work was that the Bolsheviks

726
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: sent him to French Guinea just to bring back monkeys

727
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: for gland transfers, because they were like aging, you know,

728
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: and they want to be rejuvenated for the betterment of

729
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: the people or whatever. Um. But our guy Atkins from

730
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: that New Scientist article doesn't think that that makes much sense.

731
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: In the article, he says, quote, if you want to

732
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: cover up a bizarre scheme to rejuvenate aging politicians, then

733
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: you wouldn't choose an even more bizarre project that's going

734
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: to attract a lot of publicity, which is a fair point.

735
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: And also at this conference, Voronov announced that he was

736
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: close to figuring out how to use his treatments to

737
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: help women with rejuvenation and anti aging, because you know,

738
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: women don't have testicles to graft things on. So he's like,

739
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: I really got to get to work on that, and

740
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: he promised at that conference to quote turn Randmother's into debutante.

741
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: Throughout the nineteen twenties, the surgery was incredibly popular. It

742
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: even inspired other scientists to get into the gonad game,

743
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: for example, Eugen Steinock in Vienna. He decided that a

744
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: simple twenty minute procedure could do everything Varonov promised and more.

745
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: McGill University's Office of Science and Society rights that quote.

746
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: At the time, researchers had determined that there were two

747
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: types of tissues in the testicles. Seminal tubules produced spermatozoa,

748
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: but there were also cells between the tubules that released

749
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: sex hormones. Seinock's idea was that the two types of

750
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: tissues compete for nourishment, and that stifling the sperm producing

751
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: tissues would boost the production of sex hormones. So essentially,

752
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: he would give men a partial vasectomy, and patients, who

753
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: included Sigmund Freud and W. B. Yates, would call quote

754
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: getting stein I've been stein Hey, you got Steinocked. Yet

755
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: we look great. He wrote that this damning of the

756
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: seminal canal quote changed my patients from feeble, parched, dribbling

757
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: drones two men of vigorous bloom who threw away their glasses,

758
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: shaved twice a day, dragged loads of up the two

759
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty pounds, and even indulged in such youthful

760
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: follies as buying land in Florida. I love that idea.

761
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: Only a young man would buy land in Florida. Oh,

762
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: I would buy land in Florida. But it's a young

763
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 1: man's game. What is it about Florida specifically? That's so.

764
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: He also claimed that he had thrice rejuvenated himself, which

765
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: as he is Austrian, right, which has McGill University just

766
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: making sure I'm doing the right voice here, as mckill

767
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: university points out, is a very strange claim because quote,

768
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: once the duct is tied off, it's tied off. Whatever

769
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: improvements Steinock and his patients felt was probably due to

770
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: wishful thinking, because, as we now know, vasectomes do not

771
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: boost hormonal output by the testes. Sorry Steinock. Stein. Also,

772
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: by the way, thought that he could cure homosexuality by

773
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: transplanting a heterosexual man's testicle into a homosexual man's body

774
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: for quote remasculinization. But fortunately nobody ever volunteered for this

775
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: experiment for some reason, I don't even think they let

776
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: him get to the point of asking. They were like

777
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: no Steinock all right. But for Enough was going strong

778
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: throughout the twenties. He grafted over five hundred men himself

779
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: with his hands, and his techniques were used on thousands more.

780
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: Now we already know that for Enough ranched out a

781
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: little when he worked with Ilya Ivanov to graft a

782
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: human woman's ovary into a monkey and then tried to

783
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: impregnate it with human sperm. Around Apparently he also transplanted

784
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: monkey ovaries into human women as well, though it's not

785
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: clear if he actually tried to inseminate them or not.

786
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: Likely the ovaries were just I assume rejected by the

787
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: body so he never got that far, or they just

788
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: didn't feel like mentioning it. I don't know. But for

789
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: Enough also claimed to use his grafting techniques to create

790
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: a flock of super sheep in n He said they

791
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: were bigger and stronger, than non grafted sheep, and from

792
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: that he hypothesized that a super human giant could also

793
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: possibly be created through graphic Seriously, they're trying to make

794
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: a Captain America here. Yeah, and it's so they're just like,

795
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: all you needed two balls and a dream. Why they

796
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: came up with this whole problem with serum and the

797
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: m c U when it could have just been sewing

798
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: some balls out of the guy? Do you Roger's head

799
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: had quickly agreed if they had said it done all

800
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 1: it is a small operation, whatever it takes. He said,

801
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: that's true. I could do this all day. And he's

802
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 1: super strong, but he has a real hard time running

803
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: because he's got four balls. Popular culture was rife with

804
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: references to this treatment time. The poet E. Cummings described

805
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: war Enough as quote the famous doctor who inserts monkey

806
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 1: glands into millionaires. A new cocktail called the monkey Gland,

807
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: which is made of gin, orange juice, grenadine and Absinthe

808
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: became the hottest new beverage. That is, so, why did

809
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: you have to put grenadine in it? Because now with

810
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: orange juice and grenadine, the color you're getting looks to

811
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: me and I'm sorry for anyone's drinking this right now

812
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: while you're listening to our podcast. But it looks like

813
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: a surgical fluid, you know, like I'm picturing that pinkish

814
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: orange kind of thick that is. I'm sorry, it's something

815
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: that came out of a Yeah. Sorry. They were like,

816
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: we want to achieve a color that's really close to

817
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: a monkey mall. It came into my head. I had

818
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: to share it with everyone. That's what Boro said, all right,

819
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: if you would just keep these things to yourself. Also

820
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: in Paris, a popular home decre item where ashtrays depicting

821
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: monkeys protecting their private parts with the phrase no baronof

822
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: you won't get me painted on. I want one of

823
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: those ashtrays, so svariously, if any if there is one

824
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: out there in the vinted the world, I would die

825
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: towne it. That's hilarious. So good. No far enough, you

826
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: won't get me with him covering his balls like there's

827
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: the fourth one. Oh my god, alright, says let's I

828
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: get it. Let's go take a look at see what

829
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: you can find. We'll take a quick mercial break and

830
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: be right back. Welcome back to the show. Still haven't

831
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: found the ash tray? But when I do, I promise

832
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: I will post about it. Okay, So it seemed like

833
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: the world was Varnov's rocky mountain oyster. But which is which?

834
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: Is that a ball reference? Yes, that is a reference.

835
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: Apparently I only know this reference because one time I

836
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: was at a at the farmer's market with my mom

837
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: as a kid, and they had rocky mountain oysters for sale,

838
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 1: and I immediately was like, how do they have oysters

839
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: from the rocky mountains? Because oysters are living the ocean

840
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm a smart kid, and I know there's

841
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: no ocean in the mountains. And Mom had to explain

842
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: to me, with a very embarrassed smile on her face,

843
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: that that meant bowl testicles. And apparently, yeah, it's rocky

844
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: mountain oysters or prairie oysters. Now we know, we all know. Uh,

845
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: so you won't accidentally think you're eating mountain oysters. Sometime

846
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: You're welcome. So Ornov is doing well. He decided to

847
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: kick it up a notch by opening his own monkey

848
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: farm in the Italian Riviera in ninety five. It was

849
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: called Castle Vornov. He built a primate enclosure in the

850
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: garden and hired a former circus animal keeper to run it.

851
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: And he also had a small hospital built on the

852
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: ground so that he could do operations right there, truly

853
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: a farm to testicle operations. He was charging around ten

854
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: thousand francs for this operation, just a little hard to

855
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: convert to today's currency dollars, but according to Atlas Obscura,

856
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: that was a year's salary for a chorus member at

857
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: the Paris Opera. So some you know, just so you

858
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,919
Speaker 1: have a reference that you can make sense of, because

859
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: we all know Um, with his inheritance from Evelyn and

860
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: all this money coming in from the expensive operations, Voronoff

861
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: lived in serious luxury, you know, lifestyles of the rich

862
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: and famous. Yeah, here's the monkey ball doctor living in

863
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: his beautiful home, paid for by the testicles of hundreds

864
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: of monkeys, maybe eight thousands. Thanks monkeys. They're selfless sacrifice.

865
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: I'm being told they were apes actually, which are far

866
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: more intelligence even better. Wow. This guy occupied the entire

867
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: first floor of one of Paris's most expensive hotels. He

868
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: was accompanied by a bunch of chauffeurs and personal secretaries.

869
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: He had valets, he had two mistresses. Was really living

870
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: it up. He was making dough. But all this could

871
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: not last forever. Oh serially, up said about that, you

872
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: can't go get that surgery right now. No. In the

873
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: early nineteen thirties, many of Wornof's patients were surprise showing

874
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: signs of aging. See that's the trick with anti aging stuff,

875
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: is that people, it works for you for about ten

876
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: years and then and then you see what's happening exactly.

877
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: And that gave the many skeptics around the world a

878
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: lot of ammunition for their arguments against and that. I

879
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: will say that he was very popular. You know, pop

880
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: culture was all over it. There were still a lot

881
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: of people who were like that don't sound real. But

882
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: for enough explained that to his frustration, the gland graphs

883
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: seemed to die off and stop being effective after three

884
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: to five years, and while he could re rejuvenate his

885
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: patients with another ten thousand franc operation, of course, it's

886
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: always a solution that didn't work. Will just come play

887
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: me to do with the get and then it'll work

888
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: three or five years. Um No, he said, listen, I'm

889
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: working on a longer lasting technique where he would test

890
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: the blood of the monkey and of the patient and

891
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: make sure they were compatible blood types, I guess, and

892
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: he felt that if he could work that out, he

893
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: claimed that his graft would help someone live to a

894
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: hundred and forty years old, which is a very specific

895
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: long number. But by scientists had isolated and identified testosterone,

896
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: which Boredov had kind of been waiting for because he believed,

897
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, as we've talked about, he believed that the

898
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: testicular gland secreted some kind of substance and once they

899
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: figured out what it was, grafting surgery would no longer

900
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: be required. They would have the substance they could use instead.

901
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: So he kind of expected the discovery of testosterone to

902
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: back up his theories. He said, if patients were given

903
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: injections of testosterone, they would become young, strong, and virile.

904
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: But when his hypothesis was tested, of course, testosterone injections

905
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: were not found to prolong life or help with anti aging.

906
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: They just kind of boosted up some secondary sex characteristics.

907
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: But that's kind of it. So what ironically, given Voronof's

908
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: obsession with ball sacks, it's actually estrogen that has wrinkle

909
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: decreasing properties. Oh, he was looking in the wrong place

910
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: for his anti aging. So Voronov's grafting theories fell out

911
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: of favor and he stopped performing surgeries, but he continued

912
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: to work at Castle Varnof, trying to cure other human

913
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: ailments that he refused to name. Voronoff did have to

914
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: flee the Nazis before the outbreak of World War Two,

915
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: but then he was called back to France in nineteen

916
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: thirty nine to become a surgeon. Once the war was over,

917
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: he went back to Castle Varnoff, but it had been

918
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: decimated by bombing, and you know, unfortunately no word on

919
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: what happened to the monkeys. Like to think. I like

920
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: to think that a bomb landed like Pirates of the

921
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: Caribbean style, just busted a hole open and didn't kill anyone.

922
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: They just were able to scape. Yeah, and they've traveled

923
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: to Rome and they overthrew the Italian government. They've been

924
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: ruling there ever since since. Now. Vorenov wanted to rebuild

925
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: his castle, but he never did. In nineteen fifty one,

926
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: he died in Switzerland from complications from a fall, possibly

927
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: from pneumonia or a blood clot that might have traveled

928
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: to his brain, which was just like how Margaret wise

929
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: Brown died throwback. Now he was wealthy, but he had

930
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: been discredited. Yeah, he never did rejuvenate himself, even though

931
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: he said he would when he needed to. But I

932
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: guess I guess when the needle got too close to

933
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: his balls he decided. You know, I'd rather be old.

934
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: I never all thought from this angle, and I don't

935
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: like it. I can't believe you will let me do

936
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: this so many times. You're insane. Voronoff was outlived by

937
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: his third wife, Gertie Schwartz, who was believed by some

938
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: to be the illegitimate daughter of King Carol of Romania.

939
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: For all you, King Carol stands out there, King Carol,

940
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: I love. I don't know why, but it makes me

941
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: think of the King Vitamin's cereal box. I don't know why.

942
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: But vitamin cereal did you talking about? Well, I don't.

943
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone else knows what it is.

944
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: It might be a generic like dollar store cereal, but

945
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: we used to have it in our house. Um knock off.

946
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: I guess King Vitamin anyway, unimportant. And now most newspapers

947
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 1: when Borough died, they kind of acted like he had

948
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: never been taken seriously. They didn't. Many papers didn't report

949
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: on his death at all, which is sort of shitty

950
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: because they were the ones being like, look at this

951
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: great guy. And in the ninety nineties, some scientists tried

952
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: to say that Ornof's experiments actually transmitted the HIV AIDS

953
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: virus from monkeys to humans, like it was all his fault,

954
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: but a paper by Peter Bogick, Stephen Selman, and Michael A.

955
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: Rees debunked that claim. They said, quote consent sys among

956
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: virologists holds that HIV most likely originated from a chimpanzee

957
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: virus known as Simian immuno deficiency viruses, which many agree

958
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: was transmitted to humans during the hunting of primates in

959
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds. HIV isolate studies show that s

960
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: i v was most likely transferred to humans from a

961
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: chimpanzee species different from those used by war Enough. Again,

962
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: horrible irony there that while we were hunting for primates

963
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: to do all of our experiments on, we gave ourselves

964
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: a terrible virus, you know what I mean? Anyway, McGill

965
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: University says that the doctor's experiments might be laughable, but

966
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: actually he did make important contributions to modern endochronology, biology,

967
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: and hormone replacement therapy, but quote his monkey transplants, however,

968
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: join the ranks of medical oddities the scientific community would

969
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: rather forget. So, you know, we all have good and

970
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: bad things we've done, right, it's just a good you know,

971
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting story to look into because of

972
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: how much people believed this science and how much the

973
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: scientists were believing it. You know, the Scientific American article

974
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: was basically talking about Ivanov specifically to point out bad

975
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: science when when science goes bad, because they were kind

976
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: of like, this guy was funded by political political machine

977
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: to reach a certain conclusion. That's what they wanted him

978
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: to get to his hypothesis, rather than disprove it, rather

979
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: than you know, really maybe really look at research that

980
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: disproved it. They're like, we want you to make it

981
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: work exactly and and towards a political end. So they

982
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: were talking a lot about what happens when science gets

983
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: caught up in politics, who's funding what and why all

984
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: that kind of contributing to bad science. And this is

985
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: a really good example, both of these guys. They're a

986
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: really good example of that. But Voronoff, I get, I

987
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: get the impression. I don't know if you feel this

988
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: way or not having researched all this, that Vornoff wasn't

989
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: necessarily snake oiling here. Like I think he believed what

990
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: he was doing. Yeah, and and so like you said,

991
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: like that pursuit, which he probably I don't know how

992
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: he could have had more knowledge than he did on it,

993
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: because you know, we learned afterwards. Well, that was a

994
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: dumb idea. There's a lot of hindsight and science that

995
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: makes stuff look stupid and silly, like what were you thinking?

996
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: But somebody had to try it, um, you know, to

997
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: learn and and I while I think that the idea

998
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: is ludicrous, and I'm not happy with the idea of

999
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: the rampant animal abuse um and the embedded racism and

1000
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: eugenics behind a lot of it and everything like that. Uh,

1001
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, there are some really gross sounding science things

1002
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: that have ended up being tremendously beneficial. Know. First one

1003
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: pops into my head is like eating termites. You know,

1004
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: they're like cultures that are like if you came to

1005
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: me and said, I wonder if I could eat this bug,

1006
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: I would say that's an insane thing. Why would you

1007
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: experiment with that? Don't do that? But somewhere for a

1008
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: long time people been making making healthy meals. True bugs

1009
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: all on crickets and stuff follow on crickets. So, I

1010
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: mean that's a good point too, is that you're like,

1011
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's really easy to laugh now, but at

1012
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: the time they really didn't know. I mean, they had

1013
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: just learned that there was even any kind of connection

1014
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: between primates and humans, and they were trying to figure

1015
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: out what that really meant for us. So you have

1016
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: to try a lot of weird ship. So and I

1017
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: think Ivanov similarly, it was not necessarily snake oiling. I

1018
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: think he really did believe, like there's something useful here

1019
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: for my country, for my my for humanity overall. You know,

1020
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think there's a lot of malice

1021
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: in either of them, but it anyway, yeah, hard to say.

1022
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm very fascinating. Felt a little more his felt little,

1023
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: I mean, not not intentional malice, but that kind of

1024
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: eugenics idea of like, well, if I just made everyone

1025
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: a little stupider by breeding them with apes, that we'd

1026
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: have a better society because people would stop wanting things

1027
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: for themselves. Yeah, totally got a better world, well for whom, which, again,

1028
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean just kind of tells you, like how politics

1029
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: influences science sometimes in a very very bad way. It doesn't,

1030
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't give us anything. You know, that didn't contribute

1031
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: much to anyone, but we got our giant super cheep

1032
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: out of it, at least, thank god, that's what everybody

1033
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: was really look at for. Just create a Soviet army

1034
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: of super sheep. Well, and then also, I will say

1035
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 1: scientific American because he did have that gross idea to

1036
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: insciminate those women without your consents, and that's really gross,

1037
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: and they Scientific American pointed out. Quote, while there was

1038
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: apparently no overt racism in his research, his decision to

1039
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: inseminate African women without their knowledge or consent can only

1040
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: be understood in the context of a racist and sexist

1041
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: colonial attitude. So again, if you're looking at science in history,

1042
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: you kind of have to look at the overall everything

1043
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: else going on in that, you know, That's why it was.

1044
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't super relevant, but it was important

1045
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: to know. Like, not that long before all, this was

1046
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: when Charles Darwin was publishing his Theories of Evolution that

1047
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: just like blew everyone's mind. So it changed everything. And

1048
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: poor monkeys of poor apes, they suffered a lot, and

1049
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 1: they still do. I will say that that we still

1050
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: experiment on apes all the time and they are treated

1051
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: very poorly. And there's I mean, there's that's a can

1052
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 1: of worms right there. Because there's a lot of questions about, well,

1053
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: where has it brought us in? How many people have

1054
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 1: lived much better lives because of it? You know, I'm

1055
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: I don't have a solution. I don't want to start

1056
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: experimenting on people because of course you're gonna pick poor people,

1057
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: You're gonna pick desperate people, You're gonna pake criminals. I mean,

1058
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna do horrible human rights violations or animal rights violations.

1059
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: You know. It's just there's no good way, it feels like.

1060
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: But I actually have a good way, and it's I

1061
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: take I take my two index fingers and I bring

1062
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: them up to the side of my head and then

1063
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: I put them into my ears and I make this sound.

1064
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: La la la la la la la la la la

1065
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: la la la. Oh my god, that is helping I

1066
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: feel so much. It's like all the solutions are there.

1067
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: We can assume what a better world? What a better world? Well, yeah,

1068
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: so that is our that is our bal Sack story.

1069
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: For today our scrotum story. Yeah, thanks for and for

1070
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: this one. You know, it's one of those things where

1071
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 1: it's sometimes sometimes there's a true love story here. Other

1072
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: times it's the story of sex and reproduction and how

1073
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: how we navigate those as a species or as multiple

1074
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: species the case. Maybe I also I want to know

1075
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: what about the twenties specifically where all these old guys

1076
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: were like, I'm gonna live forever. I want to be

1077
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: young again, Like was it just something like coming out

1078
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: of a world war? They were like, I you know

1079
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: what I mean, I want to go back to my

1080
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: youth like different or I don't know. Yeah, on one hand,

1081
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: maybe there is that like I missed my youth and

1082
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: I want it back, or everything's booming right now, so

1083
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: I will yes, I want this forever. I can get

1084
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: land in Florida. But I will argue that I don't think.

1085
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: You know, there's science crazes at different points in history,

1086
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: but I don't think this ever really goes away. I

1087
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: think there's always rich people, I mean all people. I'm

1088
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: not rich, and I think of it all the time,

1089
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: like how could I live forever? You know, I got

1090
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: my night cream? You know, anti wrinkles. I'm interested. I would.

1091
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this, like you know, the

1092
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: vampire quandary about like, oh you'd live forever but lonely,

1093
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: you know you'd be lonely. I'm lonely. Now, I'll do it.

1094
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm here, I am sitting right here. I want to

1095
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: see some stuff. I want to see this stupid Marvel

1096
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: Marvel series to its end, which you know is going

1097
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: to outlive us all true, true, we have to watch

1098
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: its inevitable decline. Right, Yeah, yeah, I'm down for that.

1099
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: I'd rather see it than not, right. I like, you

1100
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: can be like the original first ten years was great. Yeah,

1101
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: that's I would love to have a hundred and twenty

1102
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: years from now be saying you guys will never have

1103
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 1: anything as good as The Winter Soldier like Jesus Boomer.

1104
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: I mean it will be millennial, millennial, millennial, this millennious,

1105
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: thousand year old millennials still going on about the Infinity saga. Jeez,

1106
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: we're all over it, old man. I guess that's what

1107
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: I Potter reboot, that's what we're excited about now. Well,

1108
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I wonder is if you live forever,

1109
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: A do you not feel I mean, because that's part

1110
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: of aging, right, getting older. It's not just that your

1111
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: body gets older, but like your mind does and you

1112
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: start to feel like the world's moving on and you'r

1113
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 1: Isn't that what we do in the Shadows is all about,

1114
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: is that they're sort of like cannot modernize themselves because

1115
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: that's just how it is. To just got to keep

1116
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: it fresh, like I do. You know, you just gotta

1117
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: stay funky. You just got to be in touch with

1118
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: the kids and the lingo, you know, be groovy, like

1119
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 1: you can walk around. Yeah, that's going to be yea,

1120
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: you know, the kids and me, like we're on the

1121
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 1: same page. Oh yeah, any kids listening, please, let's let's

1122
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: tell you. I know, if y'all are on the same

1123
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:53,799
Speaker 1: poo and they're going to be like, what's a page? True,

1124
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, y'all know what pages are? Yeah? Microsoft program?

1125
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: Well anyway, do let us know what you think about this,

1126
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: if you would like to live forever or not. I

1127
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: would be interested in your opinions, because I do feel

1128
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: that people would get bored with the world. But maybe

1129
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: you're right. Boredom is maybe a sign of low intelligence

1130
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: and not trying that hard. So if you really were

1131
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 1: out there learning pottery and doing ship like you could

1132
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: live forever and be very happy. What do you think?

1133
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: I'd love to know your thoughts about all this nut

1134
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: sex stuff, So yeah, send us an email riddic Romance

1135
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com or hit us up on Twitter

1136
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: and Instagram. I'm at Oh great, it's Eli. I'm at

1137
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 1: Dynamite Food and the show is at ridic Romance And

1138
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,560
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you listening. We love spending time with

1139
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 1: you and hearing from you, and I hope you enjoyed

1140
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: this story. That's right, well, catch all the next one.

1141
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: So long, friends, it's time to go. Thanks so listening

1142
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: to our show, tell your friends names uncles, and this

1143
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 1: is to listen to what's so ridiculous? Well mans,