Speaker 1: She practice seriously. She would drive as many as a
Speaker 1: thousand balls a day. She would take lessons for five
Speaker 1: or six hours in play to her hands were blistered
Speaker 1: and bleeding. On one hole she drove at the British
Speaker 1: Ladies Amateur Championship in Scotland. On one whole she drove
Speaker 1: a ball so far that a spectator whispered, she must
Speaker 1: be Superman, sister. That was Dr Karen Lecompte talking about
Speaker 1: a woman who was one of the greatest athletes of
Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Babe Diedrichson Saharius, I'm Alan Ververe and
Speaker 1: this is Seneca's one women to hear. We are bringing
Speaker 1: you one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history
Speaker 1: making women. You need to hear, Babe Diedrichsenza Harrius is
Speaker 1: not as well remembered as she should be, but she
Speaker 1: dominated the sports world in the nineteen thirties, forties, and fifties.
Speaker 1: She's immortalized as a legend on the golf course. She
Speaker 1: not only helped found the l P g A, she
Speaker 1: also won seventeen golf tournaments in a row. But she
Speaker 1: was tremendous in just about every sport she tried, including baseball, swimming,
Speaker 1: and even football. In the ninety two Olympics, she became
Speaker 1: the only person ever male or female to win individual
Speaker 1: medals in separate track and field events that included gold
Speaker 1: medals in the eighty meter hurdles and the javelin throw.
Speaker 1: To find out more, we talked to Dr Karen Lecompte,
Speaker 1: an associate professor at Baylor University who has written about
Speaker 1: Babe d Drickson Sahrrius. Listen and learn why Babe Didriksen
Speaker 1: sa Harrius is one of Seneca's women to hear. I'm
Speaker 1: delighted to be here today with Dr Karen Lecompte, who
Speaker 1: is an expert on the legendary Babe Didriksen Saharius. Welcome
Speaker 1: so much, um, Dr Lecomte, thank you. I'm happy to
Speaker 1: be here. Babe Didriksen Saharius once said, my goal was
Speaker 1: to be the greatest athlete who ever lived. Do you
Speaker 1: think she met that goal? And what would you describe
Speaker 1: as her real legacy her lasting impact? Well, Babe did
Speaker 1: Grigson was born on June nineteen eleven. She was actually
Speaker 1: the six of seven children of Norwegian immigrants Ole Nicoleine
Speaker 1: and Hannah Marie Olsen. She was named Babe an infant,
Speaker 1: after all, the sixth child to come along was named Babe,
Speaker 1: but she was known as the baby and her older
Speaker 1: brother could not pronounce this, so it was soon after
Speaker 1: shortened to Babe and that stuff. She was born in
Speaker 1: Port Arthur, Texas, but after the hurricane in nineteen fifteen
Speaker 1: that severely affected the Gulf Coast area, many families moved
Speaker 1: further inland to Beaumont, approximately twenty miles east of Port Arthur.
Speaker 1: The family settled and Babe spent most of her childhood
Speaker 1: there playing outside, jumping and running and doing all the
Speaker 1: things that would one day make her the world's most
Speaker 1: famous woman athlete are famous athlete. The thing about Babe
Speaker 1: was she had a really competitive spirit. Um She eventually
Speaker 1: went to Dallas to play with the Cyclones and worked
Speaker 1: as a file clerk for her employers Casualty company, but
Speaker 1: that was not her first championship. She um participated in
Speaker 1: track and field and even golf while an elementary school.
Speaker 1: Her first big tournament, interesting enough, was a boy's marble tournament.
Speaker 1: From then on, paid was tough enough to beat in
Speaker 1: any sport, boxing, billiard, skating, archery, baseball, football, swimming, water polo, bowling, polo, checkers, dominoes,
Speaker 1: and gin rummy. She often said, I don't see any
Speaker 1: point in playing the game if you don't win. She
Speaker 1: was the most recognized and titled champion and track and
Speaker 1: field events in baseball and golf at the time when
Speaker 1: women struggled for equal rights and the nation faced tremendous
Speaker 1: societal changes. Well, she certainly does sound Competiti Diven. Who
Speaker 1: would have thought that marble's could lead to uh so
Speaker 1: many other achievements? Um, And she did triumph, as you
Speaker 1: so beautifully said, in golf and basketball, baseball, track and field.
Speaker 1: She won two gold medals in track and field at
Speaker 1: the ninety two Olympics, and she became a pro golfer
Speaker 1: and one ten l B g A Major championships. So
Speaker 1: what was it about her in her personality and upbringing
Speaker 1: beyond what you've already told us. What was she like
Speaker 1: as a person? Well, she was a happy gal. She
Speaker 1: not only brought her style and grit to golf, but
Speaker 1: her personality. She was like the happiest girl anyone ever saw.
Speaker 1: According to her teammate Patty Barb, she brought humor and
Speaker 1: excitement to the game. Like a kid, and sometimes she
Speaker 1: was kind of crass in her in her personality. Russell
Speaker 1: Friedman writes about how she influenced the game because she
Speaker 1: had so much flair and color. In January nineteen forty nine,
Speaker 1: they have been George Zakias met with Fred Cocaran and
Speaker 1: golfer Patty bar at the Venetian Hotel in Miami, Florida,
Speaker 1: and drew up the charter for the Ladies Professional Golf Association.
Speaker 1: Berg volunteered to be the first president. They believed that
Speaker 1: with a formal organization to promote the game, more women
Speaker 1: golfers would want to compete as professionals. She just stood
Speaker 1: out over everyone. Um. Her friends later recalled um that
Speaker 1: she just um. One time she snapped. She had a
Speaker 1: bad day. Everybody has a bad day once in a while,
Speaker 1: and she suddenly snapped the putter over her knee like
Speaker 1: a toothpick and hauled it off and threw it to
Speaker 1: pieces in the woods. So she had lots of personality.
Speaker 1: Sure sounds like it. And you had mentioned, um that
Speaker 1: it was not particularly an easy time for women to
Speaker 1: achieve the kind of heights she did as an athlete.
Speaker 1: Describe some of those social and cultural obstacles that she
Speaker 1: had to overcome absolutely. In November of nineteen two, American
Speaker 1: voters used the power of democracy and voted strongly in
Speaker 1: favor of Franklin Delanor Roosevelt as a response to the
Speaker 1: nation's economic conditions. Life for many American families was a
Speaker 1: desperate state for living conditions and little food. The Olympic
Speaker 1: Games provided a much needed distraction. However, Milan women had
Speaker 1: only been able to vote for twelve years. Women were
Speaker 1: pushing gender limits in social Whalm's realms, and the Olympics
Speaker 1: were no exception. Women were only allowed to enter three events.
Speaker 1: Babe broke four world records. She won the javelin throw
Speaker 1: with a hundred and forty three ft four inches, won
Speaker 1: the eighty meter hurdles twice, breaking the previous world records.
Speaker 1: By the way, her best time was eleven point seven seconds,
Speaker 1: and she made a world record high jump, but the
Speaker 1: jump was disallowed and she was awarded second place. Wow
Speaker 1: and and did things change ever so slowly? Or was
Speaker 1: there greater progress after she, as a woman demonstrated her capabilities.
Speaker 1: Did it change for other women sooner rather than later?
Speaker 1: Or was it still a hard slog? I think it's
Speaker 1: still a hard slug and and it's in my opinion
Speaker 1: that in some ways it's still hard slug today. UM,
Speaker 1: many women are pushing the boundaries and glass ceilings. UM,
Speaker 1: they've led the way. Many women today talk about having
Speaker 1: to walk around in high heels because there's so much
Speaker 1: glass on the floor. But they've they've certainly broke those
Speaker 1: barriers and she but still it was a difficult time. UM.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty four, she won the US Open in Peabody, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: and entered the record books with the legendary performance. UM.
Speaker 1: Thousands of people watched her shoot seventy two, see seventy
Speaker 1: three and seventy five. UM, I know, isn't that amazing?
Speaker 1: She was called mclissen. Newsweek magazine called her Mrs Golf,
Speaker 1: and she is known to be the richest female athlete
Speaker 1: in the world at the time, accruing over three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars from tournaments. But she also through her role
Speaker 1: in movie shorts, endorsements, and publishing in radio contracts, UM
Speaker 1: achieved her fame as the world's most famous athlete. Well
Speaker 1: how was that transition? She started out as an olympian
Speaker 1: in track and field. Uh, and then went on to
Speaker 1: be one of the greatest golfers. As you've just described,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem that most human beings athletes, as good
Speaker 1: as they are, could be so compellingly successful in this way.
Speaker 1: In two different ways, well, she transidented stereotypes and she
Speaker 1: was far more complex, contradictory, and a very enduring character.
Speaker 1: I think she would tell today's athletes to break barriers,
Speaker 1: build confidence through your competitive nature, don't worry about what
Speaker 1: others think, laugh and enjoy the hard work. I loved
Speaker 1: this quote. She said a reporter once to ask, Babe,
Speaker 1: is there anything you don't like to do? She said, yes,
Speaker 1: play with dolls. She sounds absolutely fascinating, and we know
Speaker 1: that she was gaining fame around the same time as
Speaker 1: another groundbreaking woman, Amelia Earhart, who made her solo transatlantic
Speaker 1: flight in n two. Do you think that they had
Speaker 1: much in common? I do. I think that both women
Speaker 1: had characteristics of intense concentration and competitiveness during tournament play.
Speaker 1: Baby Babe almost always seemed cool and calm, no matter
Speaker 1: how intense the pressure. Certainly Amelia had to have the
Speaker 1: same characteristics. Both were not good sports about losing to anything,
Speaker 1: and as I said earlier, once when Babe played with friends,
Speaker 1: she kind of lost her temper and got mad. But um,
Speaker 1: both women um really excelled in using their competitiveness and
Speaker 1: their concentration to achieve their goals. I find it fascinating
Speaker 1: that Amelia was actually a fashion connoisseur. She wanted to
Speaker 1: make the bomber jacket and the pants and the boots
Speaker 1: that she wore part of women's um statement as strong
Speaker 1: and competitive women. And I think that Babe used her
Speaker 1: talents and her competitiveness at sports to achieve the same goal.
Speaker 1: Well what about there being champions for other women? Certainly
Speaker 1: Earhart was considered a feminist and someone who was conscious
Speaker 1: of blazing trails for other women? Can we say the
Speaker 1: same of Babe. Did she articulate any of that ever?
Speaker 1: She did um because she believed in don't worry about
Speaker 1: what others think. There is some controversy about her relationships
Speaker 1: with other women, but who really knows. I mean, she uh,
Speaker 1: she wanted to have a child, She wanted to have
Speaker 1: a family, but that didn't really happen for her, and
Speaker 1: so rather than being um distraught or being upset about that,
Speaker 1: she just laughed and enjoyed the hard work that was
Speaker 1: before her, and I think for both women that competitiveness
Speaker 1: drove and blaze the trail for other women to rise
Speaker 1: at a time when you know, there was social strife
Speaker 1: and women were not conceived after all, as I said earlier,
Speaker 1: they hadn't even been able to vote for that long
Speaker 1: mm hmm. And demonstrated capabilities, both of them that defied
Speaker 1: expectations of women, certainly in their time, and it's certainly
Speaker 1: something that still stays with us. Seneca's one hundred women
Speaker 1: to hear. We'll be back after the short break. You
Speaker 1: had talked a little bit already about her just extraordinary
Speaker 1: abilities as a golfer, and I read that Golf Digest
Speaker 1: had called her performance the most incredible performance in golf history.
Speaker 1: Why would Golf Digest say that she's relatively unknown to
Speaker 1: today's young generation of sports fans. But actually she Um
Speaker 1: she started playing um with her as I said, her concentration,
Speaker 1: her unlimited self confidence. But she practice seriously. She like
Speaker 1: would drive as many as a thousand balls a day.
Speaker 1: She would take lessons for five or six hours and
Speaker 1: play to her her hands were blistered and bleeding. Um.
Speaker 1: She on one hole she drove at the British Ladies
Speaker 1: Amateur Championship in Scotland. On one whole she drove a
Speaker 1: ball so far that a spectator whispered, she must be Superman, sister.
Speaker 1: She dominated professionally, and she dominated women's golf amazing. Well
Speaker 1: what got you so interested in her? Well, I teach um.
Speaker 1: I teach teachers, and so I have the opportunity and
Speaker 1: the honor of teaching uh, mostly young women who are
Speaker 1: going to be um, who are going to be teachers
Speaker 1: in the field. And I wanted to find someone who
Speaker 1: was relatively unknown, as I said, in today's generation, and
Speaker 1: look at someone who overcame barriers at a time when
Speaker 1: it was really difficult overcome them. And so I was
Speaker 1: interested in Babe number one because she was in Texas
Speaker 1: and number two because of her incredible drive and competitiveness
Speaker 1: and her focus on the goals. And if we could
Speaker 1: get more young women to really even understand that women
Speaker 1: have paid the way that we are standing on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of women like Amelia and Babe, and we're standing
Speaker 1: on their shoulders and learning to tackle barriers in ways
Speaker 1: that are unprecedented. What a great world this would be.
Speaker 1: What you just said about standing on the shoulders is
Speaker 1: such a great lesson to convey, absolutely, and especially for
Speaker 1: teachers who are touching the lives of young students. You know,
Speaker 1: by doing that, they are able to inspire very young girls,
Speaker 1: even in elementary school, that there's nothing in their life
Speaker 1: that is impossible for them to do. Takes hard work,
Speaker 1: it takes practice, and it takes a little laughter, and
Speaker 1: it takes it takes an attitude of don't worry about
Speaker 1: what others think. Well, and how how smart of you
Speaker 1: on your part to be able to use her as
Speaker 1: a lesson to convey to these up and coming teachers.
Speaker 1: I think that's quite striking and immersing yourself. As you
Speaker 1: have in into Babe's history, what have you learned about
Speaker 1: her that perhaps you never anticipated? What was surprising? I
Speaker 1: think what was the most surprising to me was her tenacity, um,
Speaker 1: you know, coming from a working class family in Beaumont, Texas,
Speaker 1: UM practicing sports in her backyard. Her her parents set up,
Speaker 1: you know, courses for her to work on, um, you know,
Speaker 1: things for her to jump and practice on and supported
Speaker 1: her and being the six of the seven of seven
Speaker 1: children and gave her the opportunity, you know, to play
Speaker 1: outside an awful lot in the Texas heat, which gave
Speaker 1: her endurance. And so from a very early on stage,
Speaker 1: I mean, she understood the importance of tenacity and never
Speaker 1: giving up great lessons for anybody at any time. And
Speaker 1: she died very early in her forties. She died of
Speaker 1: cancer in nineteen fifty six. She died of cancer, and
Speaker 1: she didn't really want to ever give up, And probably
Speaker 1: dying of cancer was something that was particularly depressing and
Speaker 1: frustrating for her because her body began to break down
Speaker 1: on her. But yet, you know, she really kept on
Speaker 1: transcending those stereotypes. And that's what makes her far more
Speaker 1: complex and a very enduring character. Um in that you know,
Speaker 1: we can see her tenacity, her drive for success, her
Speaker 1: desire to win at all costs, and most of all,
Speaker 1: focused on the goal, focused on the goal that she
Speaker 1: had in mind. Um cancers a disastrous disease, and she
Speaker 1: lived life to the very fullest until she no longer
Speaker 1: had a life to live. And that's inspiring as well.
Speaker 1: And what do you think she would make of today's
Speaker 1: women athletes given everything you've just told us about her
Speaker 1: and her tenacity, competitive spirit, resilience. I think she would
Speaker 1: be proud of today's athletes. I think she would tell
Speaker 1: them just to keep going. Never stopped working for that
Speaker 1: fourth quadruple jump, never stopped working for that UM breaking
Speaker 1: the next record, are are transcending the next goal, that
Speaker 1: you can do better and better and better. And most
Speaker 1: of all, she would tell them, don't worry about what
Speaker 1: others think. Mm hmmm, a lesson for everybody. Indeed, you
Speaker 1: told us how you use the story of Babe in
Speaker 1: her life to inspire up and coming teachers. How did
Speaker 1: you get interested in her? Well, at one point in
Speaker 1: my career, I wrote articles for a state magazine and
Speaker 1: I found the story of Babe when looking for Extraordinary
Speaker 1: Women UM in Texas history. And so when I came
Speaker 1: along her story and it was so obviously um obviously
Speaker 1: inspirational and all of the all of her accomplishments that
Speaker 1: I was just thought, Okay, I have to teach this
Speaker 1: two young children. And I used the National Council for
Speaker 1: the Social Studies Framework and which is about college career
Speaker 1: in civic life as UM to frame the story of
Speaker 1: Babe and her accomplishments, and um we I developed several
Speaker 1: lessons that teachers used a gallery walk. For example, I
Speaker 1: UH did a character profile, UH two tiered timeline where
Speaker 1: you kind of look at UH societal national societal changes
Speaker 1: during the period of Babe's life and then a timeline
Speaker 1: of her accomplishments to help students understand the historical context
Speaker 1: in which she lived. Well, we're delighted that you got
Speaker 1: so interested in her back when and have been with
Speaker 1: us today to tell us more about this legendary, extraordinary athlete,
Speaker 1: Babe Diedrichson Zaharius. So, Dr Karen lacomp thanks so much
Speaker 1: for being with us and for bringing her to our
Speaker 1: attention in a way that we can take lessons from
Speaker 1: her life as well. Thank you, you are so welcome.
Speaker 1: And in the words of Babe, play hard, laugh and
Speaker 1: don't worry about what others think. What a life. Here
Speaker 1: are three things I took from that conversation. Today's women
Speaker 1: athletes are standing on the shoulders of greats like Babe
Speaker 1: Diedrichson Saharius, and it pays to remember them. Babe face
Speaker 1: not only physical challenges but also the sexism and stereotypes
Speaker 1: of her day, and her response to them was to
Speaker 1: laugh and continue doing what she was doing. Second, her
Speaker 1: tenacity is an example to us all. She was gifted
Speaker 1: with natural athletic ability, but she practiced till her hands bled,
Speaker 1: took every opportunity to compete, and refused to stop playing
Speaker 1: even when she was dying of cancer. Finally, Babe's ultimate
Speaker 1: lesson to women everywhere is, as Dr lecomp says, keep going,
Speaker 1: never stop trying to do better, and don't worry what
Speaker 1: others think. Tune in next Thursday to hear about our
Speaker 1: next featured woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's
Speaker 1: one Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear
Speaker 1: is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner Pung. Have
Speaker 1: a great Day,