1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: MHA. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to two of the 12 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Theory A fee for of Black Girls podcast. We'll get 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 1: right into the episode after a word from our sponsors. 14 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: As therapists, much of how we work with clients is 15 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: informed by our own interests and the things that help 16 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: us make sense of the world today. Dr Lana Holmes 17 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: joins us to talk about how her interests in horror 18 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: movies informs her work and what the horror genre can 19 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: teach us about trauma and survival. Dr Holmes is a 20 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: licensed clinical psychologist based in the Metro Atlanta area. She's 21 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: passionate about providing therapy that welcomes and celebrates marginalized, oppressed, 22 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: and stigmatized communities. Her collaborative approach to treatment tailor's evidence 23 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: based interventions to the needs of people engaged in clinical work. Plus, 24 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: as a big nerd, she's not above dropping a power 25 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: culture reference to illustrate a clinical point. Dr Holmes offers 26 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: tellotherapy to individuals in Georgia as well as twenty two 27 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: other states. Dr Holmes and I chatted about how she 28 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: uses themes from horror films and therapy with some of 29 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: her clients, how horror films help us process issues like 30 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: trauma and racism, and how to process triggering images you 31 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: might see in a film. If there's something that resonates 32 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please be sure to 33 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG 34 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: in session. Here's our conversation, Dr Holmes, thank you so 35 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: much for joining us today. You're welcome. Thank you. You 36 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: were doing the Lord's work. Dr joy. I'm just happy 37 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: to be a part of it. Thank you. I appreciate 38 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: you spending some time with us today. So you study 39 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot about like trauma through the lifespan and what 40 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: that looks like throughout our lives. And you also are 41 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: doing this really cool work. I think around horror movies 42 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: and how they are supportive in your work of trauma, 43 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: and you tell us a little bit about how you 44 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: got into that and what that looks like. Yeah. So 45 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: for me, I grew up with horror movies. My mom 46 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: was a big horror movie fan, so I watched classics 47 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: from like Halloween, Nightmare in Elm Street, but also Lost 48 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: Boys one of my personal favorites, and the Shining etcetera. 49 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: I used to be terrified of it when I was 50 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: a kid, but it was around my teens I actually 51 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: was able to get deeper into it. And one of 52 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: the things is that with in the horror genre and 53 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: within a lot of fans before, we always talk about 54 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: how or essentially is an allegory for the things that 55 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: terrify us is human beings, and that monsters and characters 56 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: and horror media often are symbols for the things that 57 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: horrify us now, like like what could be more horrifying 58 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: in real life than trauma? And so for me, pretty much, 59 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: I've used horror as well as pop culture in general, 60 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: as a way of kind of illustrating certain concepts in trauma, 61 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: kind of like what you are doing, because I think 62 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: sometimes when you talk about these topics, when it's related 63 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: to mental health, it can seem really heavy. Human people 64 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: are like, I don't really know how that really applies 65 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: to me or how to translate that into my lived experience. 66 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: But if you're able to use examples in the arts 67 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: or in media, it's something that people can picture a 68 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: bit more and it's a bit more lustrative in terms 69 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: of being able to make those points. M So is 70 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: there This may be a complicated answer, There may not 71 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: be an answer at all. But when you think about 72 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: like going towards the thing that you're afraid of in 73 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: terms of entertainment, that does not seem like a logical 74 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: step to me, right like that, I'm horribly afraid of 75 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: this thing, but now I want to spend two hours, 76 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: like in growth in this thing, and I find that entertaining. 77 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: Can you explain just a little bit about the psychology 78 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: of horror and like wise, lease, you know, some of 79 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: us at least find that entertaining. I think on a 80 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: basic level is it provides like this safe environment to 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: confront your fears. You know, because I think most people, 82 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: even if they're petrified of horror films, they can go 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: in then they know like, this isn't real, This is 84 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: not going to happen to me, This isn't happening to 85 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: me in real time. But I can, you know, be 86 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: able to withstand and a half to two hours of 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: watching these things are really frightening and be able to 88 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: confront my fears. And essentially it's like great exposure or 89 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: gradual decization or even flooding in certain cases of just 90 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: being able to approach is supposed to avoid the things 91 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: that you're afraid of. And I mean, even though I'm 92 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: sure people don't break it down this way of when 93 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: you expose yourself to something you're afraid of, even a 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: horror movie, over time you realize, oh, I can survive this, 95 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: like it's not going to break me down. I'm not 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: going to be completely overwhelmed and destroyed by terror, Like 97 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: I can actually go through this. And I mean even 98 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: you can pick up some things when you look at 99 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: the lead characters who arise as being victorias us in 100 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: terms of survival. So have you used any horror movies 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: in your work for something like flooding or know of 102 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: any cases of where that has been used. Let's see, 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: I haven't used it for flooding explicitly, but I definitely 104 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 1: have worked with patients who are trauma survivors and also 105 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: are big horror movie fans or even people who suffer 106 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: from anxiety and our horror movie fans around it and 107 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: being able to draw parallels and kind of be like, 108 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: what would Laurie Strode do in this situation? Or you know, 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: remember when you know this character did this, and like 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: how they confronted that. Especially these are people who identify 111 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: with those characters and really love the genre, then they 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: can go like, oh, yeah, like I could do that, 113 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: or I can understand how I could navigate around this 114 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: situation and be the final girl to be able to 115 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: overcome all of this horrible stuff that I've gone through. 116 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So what are some of the common themes 117 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: that you've seen come up in either black created our 118 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: black leads in horror films? Oh? This is interesting because 119 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: I feel like this is like a renaissance that we're 120 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: in when it comes to black horror that I haven't 121 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: seen before, because I mean, the old trope is we 122 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: don't last up. It's like, oh, this is the black 123 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: character that you're introducing in the horror film. Well, don't 124 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: get emotionally attached, because like they're not going to make 125 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: it to the end. But I feel like common themes 126 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: when I think of a movie like get Out, or 127 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: when I think of the wonderful show Lovecraft Country, which 128 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed that's not coming for a second season, 129 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: but like it was brilliant is of being able to 130 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: confront the real life horror racism head on in a 131 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: way that I haven't really seen any other films. There 132 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: have been other films where if there were black lead 133 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: characters or other characters of color, that they kind of 134 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: alluded to it, but they didn't necessarily make racism and 135 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: white supremacy the monster, which I think is like really 136 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: interesting when it comes to the latest bit of black 137 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: horror that we see. But also I think when I 138 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: think of those films like get Out, or when I 139 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: think of the show like Lovecraft Country, of how they're 140 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: approaching trauma in a very complex way. So there's race 141 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: based trauma that the characters are immersed in, which is 142 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: like on a larger societal level. But then they also 143 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: look at like the individualized experiences of trauma, whether that 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: be traumatic loss and grief from death, whether that be 145 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: from facing psychological abuse and physical abuse as children, whether 146 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: that be facing neglect or sexual harassment and sexual assault. 147 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: But also in terms of being able to look at 148 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: the intergenerational transmission of trauma, which you see on display 149 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: when it comes to the Freeman family in particular in 150 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: Lovecraft Country. And so those are some of the common 151 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: themes I'm looking at. But I think also one of 152 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: the themes I see, I don't know if other people 153 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: see it this way, but of seeing that we can survive, 154 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: which is I think a beautiful flip in terms of 155 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: seeing black people in horror, because especially for seeing people 156 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: face like racism or white supremacy, even if it's in 157 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: a supernatural context or a kind of i don't know, 158 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: like alternate amplified context in what you would see in 159 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: real life, it is refreshing and also I think hopeful 160 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: to see like, oh, there can be black characters in 161 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: this film that go through all this horrible stuff and 162 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: they actually make it, and they actually subdue or overcome 163 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: the monsters in the film, which I think is great. 164 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: M hmmm, yeah, you know, you raise some really interesting points, 165 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: because I do think that there is that angle right that, oh, like, 166 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: even if it's a fantasy, like we can overcome this 167 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy and like this evil piece, but I think 168 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: that there's also an angle of looking at that as 169 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: like re traumatizing and you know, and I've heard people 170 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: talk about goal. I just don't know if I want 171 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: to watch that because it feels very triggering. Can you 172 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: share just any thoughts about like what that looks like 173 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: and also some tists maybe for how we can process 174 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: these experiences in horror that might feel driggering. Oh no, 175 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: that's a really good point because I've heard, especially around 176 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: Lovecraft Country of people who've talked about trauma poor and 177 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: and do we really need to make more pieces of 178 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: media that center black pain and to what end? And 179 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: I think it's complicated, right because I think if you 180 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 1: are a black audience member, it's hard to withstand that. 181 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not not gonna lie, like with both Get 182 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: Out and Lovecraft Country, like I had to pause multiple 183 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: times because and for me, I think the reason why 184 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: it's like going back what we're saying earlier in the conversation. 185 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: I can watch Mike Myers and no, that's not real. 186 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: Like there's a certain degree of distance. But when I'm 187 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: watching a show like Lovecraft Country, even though I know 188 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: that there aren't going to be like Lovecraftian monsters in 189 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: my real life, it's there are people like Officer Lancaster 190 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: or Christina brace Right, I was like, I know those 191 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: people are like people like the Armitages. I've met people 192 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: like that. And so it's hard because you don't have 193 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: that safety net of oh, this is just a movie. 194 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: It's like it is, but it's not. And I think 195 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: if you're a black person who's watching these pieces before 196 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: media and you find yourself being triggered, I think it's 197 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: important to pace yourself essentially. So if you're getting to 198 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: that point where like this is too overwhelming or this 199 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: is too triggering, there's no obligation for you to have 200 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: to participate in it, or you can also wait to 201 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: participate in it when you're in a good state, because 202 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: I think sometimes as black people, we feel like we 203 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: always have to just show up and be about it 204 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to anything that involves our struggle, and 205 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: it's it's this weird conflict because on the one hand, 206 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: it's like we have to be involved because it concerns us. 207 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: But then also it's so painful and exhausting to go 208 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: through over and over again without any clear end in sight, 209 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: and so I think it's important to just brace yourself 210 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: if if you know you're not in a state of 211 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: mind to be a part of this media, you can wait. 212 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: You can put down the shelf until you're in a 213 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: good space. Also, you can pace yourself. There is no 214 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: shame in you know, pressing the pause button and going 215 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: through there. I also do think being able to dialogue 216 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: with other people about it to break down scenes and 217 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: like their meaning. You could do that with a therapist. 218 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: If you get to that point where like it really 219 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: is triggering and kind of reminded me of my own 220 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: race space trauma, of the traumas in my life, then 221 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: definitely that's appropriate place to do it. But you can 222 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: even do it with like friends of the genre, like 223 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: people who are also into it, or even like listening 224 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: to analyzes from other people. I think like when we're 225 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: able to process and talk about the things that trigger 226 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: us or traumatizing, that it helps us to make sense 227 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: of it, which creates a pathway for us to be 228 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: able to process it, work through it, and heal from it. 229 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Thank you for that. I think that that's 230 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: so incredibly helpful. And I did hear a lot of 231 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: people saying, you know, like, Okay, I have to like 232 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: watch this not live. I needed to give myself some 233 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: time between episodes, right, Um, So I think a lot 234 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: of people who are already practicing that. I'm also wondering 235 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: if you have ideas about like how you can tell 236 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: these kinds of stories responsibly. And so some of the 237 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: genre kind of calls for like scaring you and taking 238 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: some of those shots. But I think when you are 239 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: dealing with topics like racism and white supremacy, you know, 240 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: I think that you do need to kind of be 241 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: gentle and like approach those topics with care. Do you 242 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: have some thoughts about how like those stories can be 243 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: told respectfully. I think it's interesting because I was thinking 244 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: about that, Like, I don't think that they should stop 245 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: telling these stories the way that they have, because I 246 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: do think that they're educational, particularly for people outside of 247 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: the black community. You have no idea and who maybe 248 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: like for the first time they were introduced to like 249 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: the emettial nightmare of what actually happened and being able 250 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: to go like, oh my god, you're being able to 251 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: be introduced to like the his three of like redlining 252 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: and segregation in Chicago in the nineteen fifties, and they 253 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: didn't know about that. So on the one hand, I'm like, 254 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: I think it's important for non white people to see 255 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: the full brutality of it, because there is a risk 256 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: of people just kind of being like, if we tell 257 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: these like very nice or kind of sanitized versions of 258 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: our history, there's a risk of people outside of our 259 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: community being like, I don't understand why you're so upset, 260 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: Like it wasn't that bad, you know, based on all 261 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: of these media depictions of how things were. But I 262 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: do think that to offset it, it would be nice 263 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: and it would be interesting to see more stories in 264 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: horror that incorporated black characters and use them as like 265 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: three dimensional figures where it's like, yes, we do talk 266 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: about race and racism, but that's not like the centerpiece 267 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: of that person in their story. It's a part of it. 268 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: I would love to see like a black Lori strode 269 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: it like it wasn't Until recently I read a article 270 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: and I forget the name of the author, and where 271 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: it was published, but where. The author of this article 272 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: noted that Jada Pinkett Smith was like the first black 273 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: final girl in a major horror film, and she was 274 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: in Tales from the Crypt Demon Night, which I remember 275 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: watching as a kid, and I was like, oh my god, 276 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: that's right because it was searching my brain. I was like, 277 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: what other major, major like franchise had like a black 278 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: final girl. And I think, like that is a beautiful 279 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: template for how like, oh, we can have a lead 280 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: black character that's like three dimensional and you can look 281 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: at and root for and want to survive this whole 282 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: thing that everybody else is, you know, being failed to. 283 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: So I think it's about balance is imposed to just 284 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: being like, let's stop telling these like really intense stories 285 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: of race based drama about about like we need to 286 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: have it for people who don't understand, but then also like, yeah, 287 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: for people in the community, like let's have for a 288 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: nice like popcorn fun films where we watch you know, 289 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: the Rachel Truth's and Jada Pinkett Smith's at the world 290 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: like make it to the end, and yeah, shout out 291 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: to Rachel True because I loved your character of the craft, 292 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: so you know, you bring up a really interesting point, like, 293 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: and I think that this is the answer to so 294 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: much that we struggle with in the black community, is 295 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: that there haven't been a lot of spots and a 296 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: lot of resources afforded to us to kind of tell 297 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: a spectrum of stories. And so it does feel like, 298 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, right now, there has been maybe a heavy 299 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: leaning on race based trauma and those kinds of things. 300 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: But with more time we do get you know, just 301 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: your run of the meal kind of horror where that 302 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: leads just happened to be black as opposed to it 303 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: being as much of a race conversation. M hmm. Yeah, No, definitely, 304 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: I think that there's a spectrum because I know there's 305 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of engaging in what would 306 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: be called, i guess like dichotomists thinking where people are 307 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: kind of like, well, it's either or you can either 308 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: do this or you could do that. Like so you 309 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: can either engage in this like wonderful, happy, go lucky 310 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: version of you know, the black experience and that's all, 311 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: or you can go into this like more nuanced experience 312 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: that goes into the trauma and the pain and the suffering. 313 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: But I think there's room for all of it. I 314 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: don't think we have to kind of go back and 315 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: forth between being like either we tell the horror of 316 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: it and you know, that's it, or we just tell 317 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: this very sanitized, cleaned up version and that's it. I 318 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: think there's room for varying degrees of our story. And 319 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: pretty much when we talk about these conversations about representation 320 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: and media, that's what we're talking about, is we want 321 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: as black people to fully be represented and all that 322 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: we are as opposed to this kind of caricatured or 323 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: stereotyped portrayals that we've been finding against the media. More 324 00:17:51,880 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Dr Holmes after the Break m So, 325 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned in this one film where Jada was the 326 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: final girl, right, and we don't often see that, or 327 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: at least historically we haven't. Can you say a little 328 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: bit more about like where black women fit into the 329 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: horror genre, Like what are the things we get to 330 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: imagine and survive within the genre? Oh goodness, if I 331 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: think about the entire span of horror movies, particularly like 332 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: mainstream horror movies, because I can imagine that there's going 333 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: to be some people in your audience that will be like, well, 334 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: what about ganjan Hess or what about these other kind 335 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: of historical landmarks and black horror movies, but that aren't 336 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: really that common. But if we think about like the 337 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: mainstream franchises, either black women are not there or they 338 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: are basically just fodder to be murdered along with the 339 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: other characters. But I think in these newer pieces of 340 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: like black horror media, what you're seeing in terms of 341 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: survival are these characters well, particularly like I think about 342 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: again with Lovecraft Country, if you think about character like 343 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: Letty who had to face being neglected by a mother 344 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: as a child and then was put an orphanage and 345 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: god knows what she had to experience to that, and 346 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: then you know, was a civil rights activist and photographer, 347 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: and it's just really really tough. And when I look 348 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: at a character like her and not to mention like 349 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: she was and also spoiler alert just in case you 350 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: haven't watched these people, but like being killed like at 351 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: least twice if I'm remembering correctly, and then resurrecting like Lazarus. 352 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: And I think learning from my character like her is 353 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: that survival is possible, Which I mean, it sounds like 354 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: such a simple statement, but when you see a black 355 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: character like her go through all that she's gone through 356 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: and still make it to the end. And this story 357 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: uh blend's elements of like reality but also this kind 358 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: of like horror, fantasy or sci fi elements into it. 359 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: It's a big deal. It can make you feel like, well, 360 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: she can survive that I can too. And particularly think 361 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: about this one standout moment when Letty buys the Winthrop 362 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: House in the North Side of Chicago, which is like 363 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: a predominantly white area of Chicago at the time, and 364 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: is renting out rooms in this house to like other 365 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: black people, and she has this big celebratory party and 366 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: they look out the window and they see a white 367 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: cross burning. And even before this, there were three young 368 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: white men that parked their cars and put cement blocks 369 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: to the steering wheels so the alarm and horn could 370 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: be going all hours of the day night. And she's 371 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: in this beautiful blue dress and high heels and she 372 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: gets a bet and she goes out and she just 373 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: knocks all of it out, and I was like, I 374 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: want to be you, because she was just so strong 375 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: and powerful in that moment. Again, like one of the 376 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: reasons why I love the shows that it presented a 377 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: nuance portrayal of black life, black people, but also black 378 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: people dealing with trauma that wasn't neat and tidy of 379 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: like these were complicated characters. In fact, a number of 380 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: these characters not only were victims of trauma or not 381 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: only victims of oppression, but also enacted oppression in a 382 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: number of ways. And so I think that that was 383 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: good in terms of being like, well, there aren't clear 384 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: villains and heroes. There are some people that like way 385 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: more heavily on either side, but you can't say like, oh, 386 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: this is a completely innocent character or this is a 387 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: completely awful character, and you don't know. I think it's 388 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: also good to be able to have the backstory of 389 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: people where it's like, even if you don't want to 390 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: justify the actions of someone like Ruby, or even if 391 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: someone like Montrose, to be able to see their backstory 392 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: and go, Okay, I can understand why you out to 393 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: this place, Like you're not a monster. It's just this 394 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: is the best that you could do in the situation 395 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: that you've been thrown into. M I think it was 396 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, so you've referenced a couple of times 397 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: like who gets to make it to the end, right, 398 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: And so it feels like that is a highlight of 399 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: the genre, right, like who survives the horror? So what 400 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: stories do we tell ourselves about who makes it to 401 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: the end? Oh? Yeah, this is a big thing, especially 402 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: when we look at like the traditional analysis of the 403 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: final girl, she's usually been white, middle class, someone who 404 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: is pure in terms of she hasn't had sex, she 405 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: doesn't smoke or drink, so like someone who's like very 406 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: morally upright and how these are the things that you know, 407 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: whether she acknowledges or not, that has allowed her to 408 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: be able to make it to the end, which excludes 409 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people when you think about it, And 410 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: it's weird because it's like that analysis can be empowering 411 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: for some people because like, traditionally, women in general are 412 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: not seen as being strong or like that's the stereotype. 413 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: And so to see a woman make it to the 414 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: end not only because of the strength that she displays, 415 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: like psychological, emotional and physical strength, but also because she 416 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: is able to use her with right, because a lot 417 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: of the final girls traditionally they're not winning because like 418 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: they're coming in and being like I'm super tough and 419 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to kick your but they're coming in with 420 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: like I'm clear headed, I know the threat that I'm facing, 421 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: and I'm going to figure it out. And so they're 422 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: able to see the things that other people can't see 423 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: because they're so distracted or they're in denial, or they 424 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: think that making fullest decisions like running towards the cemetery 425 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: when you should be running towards the car, is gonna 426 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: somehow save them. But I think the stories that we 427 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: say to ours else as particularly the context of being 428 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: black women and fems dealing with horror, either a real 429 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: life or in the genre, and sometimes we may lose 430 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: hope that like, oh, I couldn't possibly win because this 431 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: context or this world wasn't designed for me to win, 432 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: Like it's already been set up for me to lose. 433 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: But when I think about like the real life horror 434 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: show that is racism of we have so many historical 435 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: examples of people who won and who were able to 436 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: make it to the end, and who were able to 437 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: use their suffering and their pain to advance liberation and 438 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: rights for themselves and others. So like looking at people 439 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: who were referenced in Lovecraft Country in terms of black 440 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: women fems. You got Josephine Baker, who people sometimes I 441 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if people understand, like how remarkable this 442 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: woman was of not only being able to escape racism 443 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: in the United Aids and be able to have this 444 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: illustrious career, but also was a French resistance fighter during 445 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: World War Two, hid Jews in her mansion from the 446 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: Nazis when the Nazis occupied Paris and France as a whole, 447 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 1: also was a silver rights activist, was openly queer, particularly bisexual, 448 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: and so I was like, she's remarkable if you look 449 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: at someone like Bessie Stringfield who criss cross the United 450 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: States of America multiple times as a black woman motorcyclist. 451 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: And so even let me think about the mother of 452 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: Emmett Till, who I think that woman is a superhero 453 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: for what she did of two in the midst of 454 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: her grief, to be able to showcase like the real 455 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: life horror that at that time people were still kind 456 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: of in denial of the brutality of racism and how 457 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: it was ripping people who including young innocent children apart. 458 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: So I think that it was remarkable because I can't 459 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: imagine being in that mindset, having to deal with what 460 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: she did dealt with and to still be able to 461 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: be like, I'm going to show people what happened, and 462 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to use this to be like, you know, 463 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: even though my son is dead, like other children, other 464 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: people don't have to die. Hopefully, if people can really 465 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: look and have some kind of human feeling and compassion 466 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: to realize how just disgusting this is. You know that 467 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: even though we can often get these messages or tell 468 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: ourselves internalize these messages that like, this world is not 469 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: designed for you, you have to work twice as hard 470 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: and still not really get what you deserve. There also 471 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: are plenty of examples of people who through all of 472 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: this adversity have been able to succeed and not only 473 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: advance themselves, but help advance all people's that fall under 474 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: the umbrella of the African diaspra. So yeah, So I 475 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: do want to, though, go back to this conversation about 476 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: black women in the Horror because I feel like we 477 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: have a major feat coming up this summer. Right, So, 478 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is if Nia is the first, 479 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: but Nia Dakasta is directing the reimagining of Candy Man, right, 480 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: and so I no, right, and so I feel like 481 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: this may be one of the first instances of a 482 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: black woman actually being at the helm of a horror 483 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: movie this big. And so I'm wondering through a black 484 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: women's alliens what we might expect or how you think 485 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: that might impact the retelling of the story. Oh, this 486 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: is interesting because I've watched the trailers. So I watched 487 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: the original Candyman and loved it, and then I watched 488 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: the trailer and have gotten like as much news as 489 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: I can about like where they're reimagining the story, which 490 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting where it's like Candy Man in 491 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: the original like film adaptation, because it's based off of 492 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: a Clive Barker story, is basically a victim of a racist, 493 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: white vigilante mob that's torturing him for committing the greats 494 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: and of having romantic and sexual relationship with a white woman, 495 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: and it's against in Chicago. But then with this Reamac, 496 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: it's looking at Candyman is being a very clear cut 497 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: villain where it's like from the beginning he comes through 498 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: as being this child predator and murderer and almost reminding 499 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: of like Freddy Krueger kind of and then how it's 500 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of like his specter or his spirit or his 501 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: energy is still poisoning the community. And I think it's 502 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: interesting because it's making me think about who through that 503 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 1: lens of looking at how pain and oppression can be 504 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: internalized and can attack other people, right that are innocent, 505 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: Because when you look at Candyman built in the original 506 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: film adaptation, and what what's being reimagined here is like 507 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: this is somebody who's training against members of his own 508 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: community for no good reason, and kind of looking at 509 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: those elements of how sometimes within the black community, we 510 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: can have people who turn their pain outwards, right, who, 511 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: instead of being able to process it in constructive ways 512 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: and adaptive ways and to fully heal from it, turn 513 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: it outward and attack innocent people. And so that's what 514 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm looking at of like her delving deeper into this 515 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: of like how this unresolved pain and suffering can bleed 516 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: out and continue to just have these ripple effects generation 517 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: after generation in one particular community, but also looking at 518 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: the kind of stories we tell ourselves about who you know, 519 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: these kind of legends and things about like what happens, 520 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: because I think the setup is like there's this artist 521 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: that's like trying to bring this back in the almost 522 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: kind of again like selfish manner, because it's like, well, 523 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: why are you revisiting this painful event and trauma and 524 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: like resurrecting it in this community that struggled. What's supposed 525 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: to come out of it? Like what's the endgame here? 526 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: Are You're just doing it because you're like, Oh, I 527 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: think it's going to be a cool idea for an 528 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: art show, But have you consider the ramifications for the 529 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: people who lived through that, right, which is something like 530 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: that's been a big conversation and multiple areas of media 531 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: of like if we're going to cover something that was 532 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: like a real life tragedy, particularly when we look at 533 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: something like true crime, which is like gone off like 534 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: a rocket, of there are lots of people are like, 535 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: we need to focus on the victims, not on the 536 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: people who perpetrated the acts of crime or trauma, because 537 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: what inadvertently happens is you make them into these anti 538 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: heroes and people focus way more on them as opposed 539 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: to like the people that were hurt and sometimes system 540 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: without the permission of survivors or their families and loved ones, 541 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: and so it brings into question from me like that 542 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: lens of like, Okay, at what cost are you bringing 543 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: up this old stuff that's like really painful? But think 544 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: also showing that because one of the things when we 545 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: look at adversity or events of extreme stress or tragedy 546 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: is sometimes people are like, well, if the ended, then 547 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: why are people so upset still about it? If it's done, 548 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: it's done. But it's like, that's not. The way these 549 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: things work is that there can be this long hall 550 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: or shadow that's cast after something happens that affects people psychologically. 551 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: And I kind of make the comparison of like, let's 552 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: say you broke your leg, of even after going through 553 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: physical therapy and surgery and having it reset, it's like 554 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: they're still going to be a lasting impact of you, 555 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: maybe having a different kind of gait, maybe having a 556 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: certain level of pain when you do certain activities, and 557 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: you know it's because of this particular incident. And so 558 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: even though the incident is over, the consequences of what's 559 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: done to you haven't ended. And it's the same thing 560 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to the things that in dress psychologically. 561 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. That's so incredibly powerful. More from my conversation 562 00:31:52,720 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: with Dr Holmes after the break. I would love for you, 563 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Homes, if you can. I think there are some 564 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: movies you go into like you've just made the distinction 565 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: for yourself, like, Okay, I stay away from this entire 566 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: class of things because that feels like too much, right, 567 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: And I think some people may not know where they're 568 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: getting into. So I would love it if you could 569 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: maybe offer some tips for people who maybe do find 570 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: themselves triggered by a horror movie or didn't know where 571 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: they were getting themselves into and they need to take 572 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: care of themselves afterwards. Do you have some strategies for 573 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: maybe how to like process what they've experienced through a movie. 574 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Like one thing that comes to mind immediately 575 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: is like prevention, so of being able to do your 576 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: due diligence and research before you go into a movie. 577 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: I know that we're living in this time where a 578 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: lot of people are like, I don't want it to 579 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: be spoiled. I'm not one of those people that gets 580 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: not offered by spoilers. It's like it's not going to 581 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: ruin the entire film for me. In fact, I'm the 582 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: kind of person where I like getting some information in 583 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: advance that way, I know is is something I can handle, 584 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: as opposed to just like going in and being like, oh, 585 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: this is too horrible, Like The Human Centipede, which is 586 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: kind of like an infamous horror film that I won't 587 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: describe because it's just but it's like one of those 588 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: films that, like, when I found out about it, I 589 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: was like, no, thank you, I won't won't take part 590 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: in any of that. But if you're one of those 591 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: people where it's like, oh, you know, I just popped this, 592 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: or I went to the movie theater or I like 593 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: checked out something on Netflix and I was completely caught 594 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: off guard, is of taking time to, I guess kind 595 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: of like process it so you can journal out your 596 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings about like what's happening Again, you can 597 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: also talk to somebody that you know would be a 598 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: safe understanding person to be able to get your thoughts 599 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: and feelings out about, like and particularly pinpoint what about 600 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: it has like upset you? So like it's more than 601 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: just usually if people find themselves being triggered of like 602 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: oh scary, because lots of things are scary, but it's like, 603 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,959 Speaker 1: what in particular about this film was triggering to you? 604 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: Was it something that the person said. Was it that 605 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: the person resembled somebody in your real life that did 606 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: something horrific. Was there something in the storyline that really 607 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: affected you because it reminds you of something that you 608 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: or loved one has been through. But then also of 609 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: I think being able, in addition to kind of like 610 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: processing and pinpointing those things, being able to take some 611 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: time away from horror if you need to, or also 612 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of like what I've done, of like understanding like 613 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: what elements within the horror sub genre are for you 614 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: and are not, so that you don't necessarily feel like 615 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: I have to love everything, because you can still be 616 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: a big fan of the horror genre and still get 617 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: a lot of meaning and nuance out of it without 618 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: watching every single film and television associated with that's ever 619 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: been produced. So I think being able to know what 620 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: your limits are with that other things that help people 621 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: also just basic kind of self soothing skills, so diaprogmatic breathing, relaxation, grounding, meditation, 622 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: so that you can kind of get back into your body, 623 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: because sometimes when people find themselves in this state where 624 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: they watch media, they can like there can be some 625 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: symptoms where people are like I had nightmares or any 626 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: there are things about the film that like I'm seeing 627 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: in my real day to day life that are triggering. 628 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: And so it's like, okay, if that's the case of 629 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: being able to use things to like soothe your body, 630 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: that way you can be able to be grounded. And 631 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: I think it also can help you in terms of 632 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: distinguishing between this scary thing that you saw in the 633 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 1: film versus you know, what you're encountering in your day 634 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: to day life. That way you can resume feeling safe 635 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: and also being able to again like make that distinction 636 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: between like what's a real danger that has appeared in 637 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: film and then what's it you know is happening in 638 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: your real life. Essentially, m M. Thank you so much 639 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: for those So one final thing, I want to go 640 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: back to the point that we made earlier just around 641 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, especially you described it as a renaissance, the 642 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: way you've like more black lead stories are being told, 643 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: and we found an article that talked about the fact 644 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: that the reason why historically, at least it's been difficult 645 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: for filmmakers to kind of include or make black people 646 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: more a part of the genre is because the things 647 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: that terrified Black people at our core, and the things 648 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: that terrify white people are like vastly different. And so 649 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: for us, we've already talked about like for black people, 650 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: like the horror comes from like living in a world 651 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: where you know, because of your skin color, like you're 652 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: not accepted and like things could go a riot at 653 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: any moment. Have you seen that? Are are their thoughts 654 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: you have about you know, that kind of am an idea. 655 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: I definitely think that's like pretty on the money because 656 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 1: usually when we're talking about film in general, they try 657 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: to historically make it to the broadest market, and that 658 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: usually means for going to cater to people who are 659 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: considered to be privileged or dominant in our society, which 660 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: includes white people, and so they're not going to consider 661 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: what's like really horrifying to other folks. And I mean 662 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: and even you know, not just with black people, but 663 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: other people that below the marginalized and impressed groups. Because 664 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: I think about with the Stepford Wives of you know, 665 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: that was an early element of like social horror, or 666 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: even if you want to go into something it's like 667 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: Rosemary's Baby of being able to talk about this idea 668 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: of living in society as a woman where you don't 669 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: have agency over your body and where your viewed is 670 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: nothing but an object. Like that's horrifying and being able 671 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: to inject that into the horror genre when I think 672 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: about horror, and I want to think about like the 673 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: things that terrified me, but especially when it comes to 674 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: something like evil. Of I've never been terrified of supernatural things, 675 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, anytime I felt like I was in the 676 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: presence of like pure evil. It's been other human beings 677 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: in my life and so like, and it's been around 678 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: those things like racism, misogyny, misogyny, wir It's been around um, 679 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, various sacks of trauma. It's been around bullying 680 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: and harassment. It's been about you know, biphobia and sexism 681 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: and all of those things. And so I think it's 682 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like if you and 683 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: also like looking at traditionally throughout the history of film, 684 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: like usually it's like white cis heterosexual men that have 685 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: been at the helm of like funding these films and everything. 686 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: And so I think if you don't have people who 687 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: have a different lived experience at the table to go, hey, 688 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: this is actually you know a worthwhile idea that you 689 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,919 Speaker 1: haven't considered yet, why don't we explore it and try 690 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: it out? It's just not going to come to screen. 691 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: And I think we've had those ebbs and flows of 692 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: starting in them. I want to say, maybe like the 693 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: latter part of the twentieth century and then really moving 694 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,479 Speaker 1: forward where there's been more opportunities both from like Indi 695 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 1: filmmakers and mainstream filmmakers to bring these stories to light. 696 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: But I'm you know, I think that that's pretty much 697 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: the explanation is just if you don't really have to 698 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: deal with like racism, it's going to be hard to 699 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 1: see how like terrifying it is, right right, So what 700 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: are you excited about it? What are you looking forward to? 701 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: You maybe that doesn't exist in the genre now, but 702 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: that you'd love to see. Oh wow, I feel like 703 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: my dreams are starting to come true in terms of 704 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: the genre of just seeing like more queer people and 705 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: also people of color being centered as like the lead 706 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: characters that we root for and who are being given 707 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: like these three dimensional character arcs. Like there's one series 708 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: of films I haven't watched yet, but like fear Street 709 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,479 Speaker 1: that's on streaming now that I'm really excited about There's 710 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: also been like some really interesting films with like female 711 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: directors around like gender identity and like the horror connected 712 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: to that, And so I think I want to see 713 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: more black final girl alls and boys and everyone in 714 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: between on the gender spectrum and being able to go 715 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: through this and make it to the end and be 716 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: the ones that we follow, even though we've had examples 717 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: of that, like with the Penultimate Neither Living Dead with 718 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: the lead character who was black but unfortunately didn't make 719 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: it to the end. But you know, I want something 720 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: that has that kind of spirit where it's like, oh, 721 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: this is a fully formed character that not only black 722 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: members of the audience but other people can identify with 723 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: and doesn't forsake their blackness, right, because I think sometimes 724 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: there's that a tug of war between Okay, we have 725 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: this relatable character, but you know they kind of are 726 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: watered down or like they even knowledge race or anything 727 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: like that. They just they just are this blink slate. 728 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: And so I want, you know, character that fully knows 729 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: like all aspects of who they are and to clean 730 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: their racial identity. But at the same time, everybody could 731 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: go like I love this character, I feel like invested 732 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: in them, and I want to see them make it 733 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: out alive. I mean I will follow them also just 734 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: in general, not just with horror films, but in general, 735 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: I'm wanting to see more original stories come out. And 736 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: I think this is why I had a bit of 737 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: a heartbreak with Misha Green not being green light for 738 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: a second season. I think she's a brilliant storyteller and 739 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: she's like for our audience. She was the showrunner for 740 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: Love Clock Country, and I just want there to be 741 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: room for her and other storytellers like her to make 742 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: new stories because I'm really tired of seeing reboots and 743 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: remakes and prequels of pre existing properties. Because I think 744 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: that there are a generation of wonderful directors and screenwriters 745 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: who have amazing stories and ideas, and we should, like 746 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: not just we as audience members, which I think honestly, 747 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: there's a lot of audience support and craving for this, 748 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: but I think that both audience members as well as 749 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: like the studio heads that are responsible for green lighting 750 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: these pictures, like should take a chance, take a risk 751 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: of like just putting more interesting things out there so 752 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: that we can have like this new bulk of films 753 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: to go off of instead of like remaking the same 754 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: franchise for the teenth time. I think there's some things 755 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: where it's like leave it alone, even if it's imperfect, 756 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: it's like find the way it is right right, Well, 757 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: we should just stand to deal with ample, so we 758 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: will stay tuned to see what new things we might 759 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: be getting from her. Well. Thank you so much, Dr Holmes. 760 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: Please let us know where we can keep up with you. 761 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: Would you please share your website as well as any 762 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: social media handles you'd like to share well. I am 763 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: on Therapy for Black Girls directory. I'm also on Inclusive 764 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: Therapy Wellness dot com, forward slash Lana. You can also 765 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: find me at www dot Facebook dot com, forward Slash 766 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: Onward Therapy, which is the practice that I'm a part 767 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: of Onward and Outward Center from Clusive Therapy and Wellness. Yeah, 768 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,439 Speaker 1: so like those are I think like the three main 769 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: places you can catch me perfect well. Thank you some 770 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: much for all this information. Very very interesting. I appreciate you, 771 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: Dr Holmes. You're welcome. Thank you for community this opportunity 772 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: to share this with you in your audience. It's been lovely. 773 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad that Dr Holmes was able 774 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 1: to share her expertise with us today. To learn more 775 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: about her and her work, be sure to visit the 776 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com sash 777 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: session to to two and don't forget to text two 778 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: of your girls and tell them to check out the 779 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: episode as well. If you're looking for a therapist in 780 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory 781 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And 782 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic or 783 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: just be in community with other sisters, come on over 784 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy 785 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: corner of the Internet design just for black women. You 786 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls 787 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you all so much for joining me 788 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continue in this 789 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: conversation with you all. Will soon take it care