WEBVTT - Exploring the Link Between Bitcoin Mining and Global Energy Markets: Lisa Hough 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.360 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark mass Show, 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.240 where we talk about the decentralized revolution. Of course, we're 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.159 talking about the way the world is changing as of 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.879 course we look at it through the lens of politics, finance, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.680 and technology, and of course that technology is bitcoin that 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.360 is changing the world. Of course in so many ways. 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:20.360 It's always technology to changes the world, you know. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:21.239 I try to bring to. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.040 You some you know, education so you can see things differently, 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.440 some late breaking news, and of course some interesting guests. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.640 And that's what I have today. I'm joined in studio 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:30.840 with Lisa Howe. 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:32.080 Did I say that right? 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.640 Huff huff, Oh tough, Okay, spelled differently, Lisa Huff. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:37.080 There you go. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.839 And she is somewhat of an energy expert, energy and 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.440 bitcoin expert, so I'm excited again. Anyway, Lisa, thanks for 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:44.200 joining me today. 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:45.400 Thanks for having me Marks. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:46.720 Sorry I got the name wrong. 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.840 It looks like everyone does. Yeah, not spelled that way. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.760 So you know, we were talking earlier about, you know, 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.640 some of my run ins in the energy market, and 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.200 I know you're in the energy capital of I guess America, 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.039 least at least Texas of the world. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:04.760 You would call it. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.920 Yeah, Houston energy capital of the world. Okay, bitcoin mining capital. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.160 Of the world more than Saudi Arabia. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.160 According to me, it's Houston. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.839 Okay, according to you? Got it? That works? 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.880 That works, you know, Lisa, I want to dig in 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.920 a little bit. Obviously, I want to talk about bitcoin 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.320 mining for sure, But if we start from like a 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:27.080 little bit zoomed out location, I mean, you started your 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.240 career as a natural gas trader, is. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:30.600 That right, that's right? 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:35.200 Yeah, So do you have some views on what's going 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.399 on with natural gas like in the United States and 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.080 globally and how those markets are kind of working, because 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.640 it seems like obviously we see like massive problems in 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.160 Europe with natural gas, you know, and then we can 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.560 see how the US natural gas market is seeming to 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.320 be completely disconnected from the global natural gas markets. So 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.240 as a trader, I'm curious if you have any views 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.120 on that. Potentially, you know, what will happen with the 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.360 US being able to export enough natural gas to get 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.160 into like a more of a global price in regards 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:06.440 to that. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:12.079 Yeah, So I wouldn't consider myself an energy expert anymore. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.639 I traded natural gas a very long time ago. I 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.760 worked for run PGNE Southern Company, so a lot of 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.640 utilities as well as you know, spectrating shops. And learned 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.800 a lot about the energy business, so hard assets such 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:31.840 as salt and storage, generation assets, pipeline capacity, how all 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:37.160 that works. And I loosely follow energy, especially during COVID 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.400 when oil went to negative thirty. Of course I was 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.240 deep in study of what was actually going on. And 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.680 it was quite simple, as you know, more supply than demand, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.120 so you had that people had to pay to have 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:56.280 their production taken by somebody in Cushing, Oklahoma. So anyway, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.720 where do I see energy globally? I think that we 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:07.040 are really at a place of struggle. And I say 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.119 that because I believe that we're fighting domestically with each 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:17.600 other over the ESG narrative. And yet the global demand 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:25.040 for energy continues to rise, coupled with Russia eliminating supply 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:32.320 for parts of Europe Ukraine, coupled with Saudi Arabia and 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.960 the Arab nations lowering OPEK supply. I attended a couple 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.520 of weeks ago, I attended a conference at University of Texas. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.600 It was an energy conference, and every speaker and everyone 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.640 there was really of the belief that Jeff Curry at 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.600 Goldman Sachs called for two years ago, probably higher energy prices, 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.560 more geopolitical risk on the horizon. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:02.400 Yeah, you some did up really well when you talked 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:06.040 about you know, oil dropping to negative thirty and really 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.880 boiled it down. As complex as these things can seem, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.840 they're actually very simple and it boils down to supply 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.360 and demand. So that's that's what I was price. 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.760 Yeah, it does, and most people don't have a feel 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.520 for what physical commodity transfer looks like. You know, they 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.760 don't exactly know. They know that maybe natural gas is 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:27.880 required for them to turn their light switch on at home, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.599 but they're they're not aware that. You know, it gets 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.880 produced out in the Gulf of Mexico, it gets brought 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:38.920 on shore, put into you know, one of many pipelines 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.560 in the Gulf coast, and depending on the demand at 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.400 delivery points, so deliver you know, depending on how much gas. Calpine, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.840 for example, one of the largest power producers in the country, 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.640 also based here in Houston. Depending on what they need, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.200 supply either goes to them or others like them, or 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.800 it goes into storage. And the arbitge around those activities 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.960 is what makes markets and it's what makes markets strong. 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.880 So I'm a huge advocate for free markets. Again, I 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.640 think this is, you know, one piece of why I'm 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.080 so heavily vocal about the ESG narrative. I think that 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:22.760 it's dangerous in so many ways, you know, largely because 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.000 if we don't have on shore energy, we don't have 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.279 on shore national security. And if people don't understand that 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.200 after the Russia Ukraine battle and what that really has 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.680 looked like throughout Europe and how that energy bleed has 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.919 affected all of Europe, I mean, I guess you're not 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.000 I guess you're not smart because it's it's really pretty obvious. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.679 I don't think you have to be an energy expert 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.160 to go you know, probably better off if I made 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:48.120 this here at home. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:53.160 Yeah, I think people aren't smart. I mean they haven't ever. 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.919 Most people haven't stopped to actually think through past a second, third, fourth, 0:05:58.080 --> 0:05:59.120 fifth order. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:01.120 Thinking. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.120 And so they go, oh, well, I guess we got 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:04.680 to save the climate cut down on natural gas. They 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.880 don't really understand what that means. It's like the fish 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.800 doesn't know it's in water, so to speak. Right, But 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.880 if you would just take time to think through this 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:13.799 a little bit to the kind of point you're making, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.080 like if we don't have if you don't have savings 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.640 and something bad happens to you, you have no reserves, 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:21.640 like you're a slave. You can't quit your job. If 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.000 the US doesn't have reserves of energy like our oil reserves, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:26.039 that could. 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:27.280 Be a problem in time of need. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.880 In California where I'm at, which you can brek me 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.000 later on, that we have seen a big push to 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.200 get rid of all natural gas in the state. I'm 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.800 I'm working with someone to add an addition into my house. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.479 I'm not even allowed to run natural gas. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.159 Into that is that right? 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.960 And my natural gas bill has gone up by four 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.680 hundred percent in the last year. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.760 Well, natural gas prices in the US have come down. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:02.400 Wow, geez, not allowed to pipe in natural gas into your. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.200 House, not in the new area I want to build onto. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.760 Yeah, I find that funny, given that the EU has, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.000 you know, in the last twelve months, has now deemed 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.840 natural gas to be green, a green energy source again. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.120 Remember they had said it was a dirty energy source. 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.560 And then you know nuclear was shut down, and the 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.520 Russia situation has happened, and the forecast was for a 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:25.280 very cold winter. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:26.280 You know. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.600 Thankfully they didn't get that, so they deemed natural gas 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.520 to be this clean source of energy. So now, okay, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.800 that's interesting. Now you've got California saying. 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.000 You can't new houses, no new houses can have it. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:38.840 Huh. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.440 And we we we had a wood burning fireplace and 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.880 we wanted to put a gas into our fireplace. So 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.240 we had someone come out and just run the gas 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.200 line and drill through the thing. And my wife went 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.160 to go find gas logs, and you know, she went 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.280 on home depot dot com or whatever it was Low's 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.280 dot com and up, we can't ship them to California. 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.680 You've got to We couldn't get logs shipped to California. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.360 My wife had to go onto Craigslist and drive thirty 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.240 minutes from the house and meet somebody in a back 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.400 alley and do a cash deal to get gas logs. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:08.960 Like I'm not joking, I mean I'm joking about the 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.440 back alley piece, but like literally on Craigslist and had 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.240 to go do a cash deal to get gas logs 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.680 in California because we couldn't. No one would ship them here. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.440 They're all for sal Well, we just can't get them. 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.400 Insanity of that, Yeah, see that's just not a People 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.240 aren't really thinking through the second or third order effects 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.480 of energy usage. So in other countries where there's new 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.920 sources of energy that are coming in and available for use, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.200 the main benefit is, yes, that there's reliable gas or 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:45.400 a reliable fuel, carbon based fuel source. But the second 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.160 layer derivative is that they're not burning wood in their 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.479 homes and they're not collectively burning garbage, which then they inhale, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:53.960 which lead to health problems. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.079 Yeah. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.680 Yeah, so they'd rather have us burning wood, would wood 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:04.400 in the fireplace then clean burning natural gas, which is 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.400 which is which is pretty insane. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:07.520 You know. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.560 I want to I want to dig more into this ESG, 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.760 specifically this narrative and how that affects applying to man, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.080 where that goes, and how that affects bitcoin. But unfortunately, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:18.960 to the kind of point you're making, it seems like 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.679 we're going to see prices of energy going up. When 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.080 energy prices go up, everything goes up. If you're just 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.560 tune in, you're listening to the Mark Moas Show. I 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.960 am sitting down with Lisa Huff and we are discussing 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.280 energy markets, bitcoin and ESG and a whole lot more 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:34.480 we're going to cover that when we get back. 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.360 Don't go away, We'll be right back. 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.360 All right, Welcome back. If you're just tune in, you're 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.640 listening to the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about the 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.719 Decentralized Revolution, and I'm in studio with Lisa Huff. We're 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.080 talking about energy markets, We're talking about ESG, We're going 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.680 to talk about bitcoin mining and so much more. Lisa, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.080 we were just talking about before the break, the insanity 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.600 of CALIBOOI where I can't even get I can't even 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.400 get gas logs anymore. But going back to this ESG 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.280 narrative at the end of the day, back to making 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.000 things very simple. It just crimp supply, right, So they're 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:13.200 pushing these policies in place that would ultimately crimp supply 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:14.440 and that would push prices up. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:15.160 Is that how you see that? 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.760 Yeah, I would say that that's a second or third 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.120 order effect. I mean, I think we really have to 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.320 look at the root of ESG and where did this 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.640 come from. And I was actually researching for your show. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.199 I wanted to brush up on my ESG, even though 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:29.760 I talk about it all the time. I wanted to 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.920 be thoughtful about what I said today, and I discovered 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.560 that it was actually brought into existence by the UN 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.600 in the early two thousands as a way to reward 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:47.840 companies that had these virtuous properties about them. But I 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:53.120 would offer to your listeners that to me, ESG has 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:58.720 become something of virtue signaling and less about the returns. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.240 And so the way that the ESG narrative has played 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:06.839 out in the US and actually around the world, that 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.040 ESG just doesn't pay to be responsible. So I heard 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.800 this analogy recently that ESG is like giving wheat grass 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.600 to a cancer patient. But ESG is worse because it's 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.920 the equivalent of giving the cancer patient wheat grass and 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.160 delaying the chemotherapy. So what do I mean by that? 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.640 I mean that it's created two separate capital market structures. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.400 It's created a capital market structure that is free of 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:41.440 carbon or ESG related topics, and it's created the other market. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.920 And anytime that we have government interference, and that's what 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:50.160 that is, right, that's state interference. You don't have a 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.760 free market. And we must have free markets, and we 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.760 must advocate and fight for free markets because without them, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:02.760 we have no true economic activity. All economic activity is tainted. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.240 So yeah, by coming up with this arbitrary scoring system. 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.000 It's a way to really kind of impose controls, right, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.920 and so now they can force companies to get this 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.079 score which is made up of environmental, social, and governance scores, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.360 which pushes all types of things from their environmental impact 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.360 all the way through their diversity on their board, and 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.280 it takes away to your point, to free market, which 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.800 is ironic because you know, it seems like if these 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.079 business owners are so greedy and we need to make 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.480 them be more diversified, well, if they're so greedy, wouldn't 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.240 they hire the best person for the job. Like, if 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.440 I'm so greedy I want my business to do well, 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.440 then I'm going to hire the best person. I don't 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.840 care what race, sex, color, whatever they are. And so 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.560 it's sort of like a contradiction there. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.280 Well, it's interesting. So the development and the path that 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.480 Blackrock has taken. So a few years ago, I mean 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.920 you probably remember they came out with a bunch of 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:05.160 exchange traded funds that were ESG compliant and they really 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.160 heavily marketed those funds. And now recently they have issued 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:10.600 a statement. I'm gonna read it to you just so 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.040 you get the full. You know, this is exactly what 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.600 they said. We believe that greenwashing is a risk to 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.920 investors and detrimental to asset manager industry credibility. There is 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.520 no evidence that buying low carbon ETFs leads to less 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:32.040 carbon use, so ESG should be noted. Those investments out 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.520 have underperformed every other investment, every other type of investment. 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.840 Of course, what's led the way in recent years this 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.720 is energy. There's a group called the Climate Action plus 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.240 one hundred that claims to represent fifty percent of all 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.000 asset managers sixty trillion dollars in assets under management, and 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.040 in coordination they've told companies that they need to cut 0:13:54.160 --> 0:14:02.280 their emissions or really improve their ESG metric. So this 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.680 caused of course that, you know, so what's the effect 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.480 of that. We eventually see prices spike at the pump 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.800 because there's under investment into with capital markets, into businesses 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.880 that are producing energy on shore, like we talked about, 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:22.120 which is necessary for national security. So it leads to 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.360 a spike in prices at the pump. And in the US, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.600 we have a term for that. That's antitrust. Yeah, right, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.960 a group gathering together that influences price. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:36.760 That's a good point. 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.840 So oh sorry, no, Lass, that's a good point. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.120 I haven't really thought about it like that. 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.160 So Blackrock, Vanguarden, State Street voted on new directors at 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:47.480 x On. This is I think a year or two 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.360 or three ago, and after they did, Exon cut their 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.960 production targets by twenty percent. So think about Okay, they 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.360 cut their production targets, what does that mean? That means 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.240 that they stopped projects. They stopped exploration projects around the world. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.560 Who was there to pick those projects up? 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:04.840 Right? 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.320 Many were already in the works of being developed. Who 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:09.640 do you think was there to pick it up? 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.720 Asia and China specifically out Petro China. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:18.400 Petro China picked up the majority of those assets. Okay, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.240 now let's see, if you're paying attention, who's the largest 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:29.800 shareholder of Petro China Blackla right. I mean, this is 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.080 not a free market when we have actors who influence 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.200 or influences a light word for what they're doing to 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:43.680 these energy companies. We do not need states in energy markets. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.360 We don't need states in markets period. Former Treasury Secretary 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:53.200 Sarah Raskin has said that this forced investment coming through 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.600 states is an attack on sound investment practices. It forces 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:02.680 investments favored by politicians. That was a quote. Yeah, and 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.080 anyway I could, yeah, ramble on about you. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:05.400 Right. 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.160 I find it's very offensive and it's been personally. It's 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.800 affected my family and my friends. You know, Bank of 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.480 Montreal a couple of years ago they pulled out of 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.360 their natural resource group. They had ninety employees and natural 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.920 resources and one of my family members was one of 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.800 those managing directors. And you know, went to work one 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.760 day and they bemo. Right, Bank of Montreal so enormous 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.400 energy assets in Canada. They say, no, we're not going 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:35.440 to bank energy anymore. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.720 Yeah, I mean it hits everybody. I mean, back to 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.040 here where I'm at. My gas bill went from one 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.520 hundred dollars a month to four hundred a month. And 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.560 you know, while I certainly don't like that, I can 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.600 afford that, but what about the people that can't. I mean, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:55.800 it affects everybody. So it's insane. I have seen quite 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.080 a bit of backlash building. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:57.520 Obviously. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.560 We've seen a lot of Republican led states first started 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.560 divesting their funds from Blackrock. Billions of dollars were pulled 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.639 from Blackrock because of that, and then I think was 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.880 there twenty six states that have filed into a lawsuit 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.680 about this ESG investing texts of course being one of those, 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.840 and so then there's a lot of backlash. I believe 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.120 it was Vanguard that now has abandoned their net zero goals, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.960 and now Blackrock is running pr like this going whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.520 hang on, hang on, We're not like as bad as 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.800 you think we are. So there's definitely a shift happening. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.120 But I think maybe just a shift in the narrative, 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.880 maybe not so much in the underlying practices. I want 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.760 to dig into some of the mining stuff using the 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.719 these energy sources as mining. We could talk about this 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.359 New York Times hit piece that just came out that 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.760 seems pretty interesting, So I want to talk about that 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.800 as well, in ways that maybe this, you know, bitcoin 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.240 mining can actually help the energy markets. If you're just 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.600 tuning in you're listening to the Mark Mas Show, of course, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.960 we talk about the decentralized revel each and every week. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.560 I'm in studio with Lisa Huff. We are discussing the 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:06.600 energy market. You can find her on Twitter at Lisa 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.520 Underscore Huff, which is h O U G H underscore. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:12.879 Maybe you gotta fix that, Lisa. 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:14.760 Check her out on Twitter. We'll link it in the 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.119 show notes down below. We'll be back with more in 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:17.680 a minute. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.680 Don't go away, we'll be right back. 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.159 All right, Welcome back. If you're just tuning in, you're 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.680 listening to the Mark Mass Show. I am in studio 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.679 with Lisa Huff. She is an energy trader, she's a bitcoiner. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.439 She worked for a company called level Field, and I 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.440 want to talk about that. We're talking about energy markets, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.800 bitcoin mining, so much more. But Lisa, I want to 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.800 get back into the kind of energy and the bitcoin mining. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.760 But before, let's talk about the company that you're working for, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.560 level Field, and how you got over there. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.600 Yeah, sure, thank you. I joined level Field in July 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.920 of last year. I went to them because I work 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.320 for bitcoin adoption. That's what drives me. That is my purpose. 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.720 It's what I think I was put here on earth 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.639 to do. I've recently figured that out. Probably started figuring 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.879 bitcoin out in twenty eighteen, really didn't dive in until 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.240 twenty you know, late twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, certainly when 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.160 everybody was taking every online class at YouTube University and 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.040 all of those things I really got on the bitcoin bandwagon, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.520 so much so that one of my friends said, you 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.119 should really start a consulting practice and teach people about bitcoin. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.879 I thought, well, all right, I was going to, you know, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.760 go back to work in the energy business. Sure, I'll 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.480 start teaching people about bitcoin. One thing led to another. 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.240 I had one public company that was a client mini 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.520 wealth managers, lots of high net worth folks. And I 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.000 was at a conference I met Parker Lewis. I was 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.280 at a conference in Austin and was just telling him 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.320 about you know. He said, well, tell me about yourself. 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.200 What do you do? You know, Oh, what did you 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.479 do before that energy? Where do you live Houston? He probably. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.600 Two weeks later, I was working for Unchained Capital because 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.359 they wanted somebody to lead the Houston efforts to market 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.240 for unchained and Unchained as you know and others know, 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.840 helps people hold their own keys for their bitcoin. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.119 Yeah, shout out to Unchained. They're a friend of the show. 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.760 I use them for the services, So check them out 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:17.720 Unchained Capital. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:19.640 Yeah, keep going me too. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:20.360 Well. 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.720 The difficult thing about holding your own keys is that 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.440 not everyone is comfortable doing that. In fact, the vast 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.240 majority of people are not yet comfortable doing it. I 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.800 don't find it to be difficult. I do find it 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.000 to be a little nerve wracking if I have to move, 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.359 you know, say, a significant amount of bitcoin. I don't 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.080 know why, but I was recently with a bitcoin developer, 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.680 core developer who told me that he still breaks out 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.440 in sweats if he moves more than about fifty thousand dollars. Yeah, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:51.800 you know, us dollars of bitcoin. 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.720 So I always start with a little test every time, 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:56.760 we just a little well. 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.399 Mark, I don't even want to tell you what happens 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.440 when you do that, though. Let's say that you start 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:06.040 with five bitcoin and you want to move those five 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.400 and you say, okay, I'll move you know, point one 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.399 bitcoin to the test address and make sure that it's there. Well, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.119 you can verify where the test address is going to 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.040 the right address. You can look at the address on 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:24.280 your Treasure Ledger cold card and you can verify the 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.000 address obviously in the box of where you're filling it 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.959 in or the QR code where you're sending this. But 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.159 then the change the other four point ninety nine bitcoin 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.480 is created inside of a new change address. So to me, 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.480