WEBVTT - Haitian Spring 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:09.080 You're listening to waiting on reparations production. I heard, yeah, yeah, 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.200 they didn't teach me that some classes. Everything is in there. 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.800 So what you gotta do with fashions out, staying a term, 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.079 you gotta go against so they like the folks out 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.239 and put the princes, Dodgers cops for the capture. You 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.520 make sure the print and put up your defriense. You 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.960 gotta make it sure because I'm having people come at you, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.600 knocking at your door so welly, and there's no telling 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.319 when start rebelling in. Everybody can do it, don't matter 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.080 what you're melling in. Learn from mistakes and maybe never 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.240 fail again. And we need more people for the fight. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.520 Go and tell a friend I'm trying to talk, don't 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.360 make me wrap. It's waiting a reparations. They could pay 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:54.880 me back, don't ye do dope knife waiting on reparations 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.800 so much to cover today, ship you just wanna just 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.840 want to get into it? Should we just let's get 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.200 to it. Let's give the people what they want, what 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:08.399 they need. Today We're gonna talk about the political situation 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:13.480 in Haiti. Haitian entrepreneur turned president Jovana Moys had his 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.520 term officially end on February seven, but pleasantly decided not 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.440 to leave and to continue governing for another twelve months, 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.279 exciding that he took office a year after being voted 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.000 in and the people are not having this function. People 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.280 have been protesting in porter prints by the thousands, calling 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.320 for his represignation or even new elections, with the suspicion 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.520 that his term extension is a stelling tactic to gain 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.000 more power, and since taking office, his regime has been shrouded. 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:45.039 There's just admired in corruptions, charges, just balls deep in 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.760 corruption over there. Now. The police and government sanctioned militias 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.840 are using lethal force against these protesters to the tune 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:53.960 of like a hundred and eighty people dead over the 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.480 last two years, and even by the time you hear 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.760 this episode that that number is most definitely risen um. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.320 The situation is quite simply spiraling. Just to be honest 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.040 with you, Haiti is burning. And the reason that you're 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.320 not seeing it on your you know, usual news sources 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.200 is because this has the full backing of the US 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.000 Trump had the same policy towards them, Biden has the 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.040 same policy towards them. So we're pretty much you know, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:30.080 sponsoring of authoritarian fascist regime right down the street, you know, 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.000 globally speaking. Yeah, so we're gonna talk about that, a 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.680 little bit of the history of Haiti's political turmoil, and 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.680 we'll chat with journalists, activists, and politician Eugene per Year 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.560 about his recent experiences covering the Haiti uprising against authoritarianism 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.919 and government. Correct also going to check out a couple 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.760 Haitian hip hop and r and B artists and see 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.200 what type, if any connection they have for the ongoing 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.120 political situation there, you know, how we do. We'll have 0:02:55.200 --> 0:03:07.080 all that more after the jump and we're back, and 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.680 we're gonna dig into a bit of Haitie's history of uprisings. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.120 Um Haiti has a storied history of rebellion against the 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.639 ruling class, and I just like, I just really want 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.080 to briefly highlight in our discussion of Haitian politics how 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.880 fucking dope the Haitian revolution was for listeners who may 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.520 not have learned about it in school. And you know, 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.600 fucking course he wouldn't have, because they don't want colonize 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.400 people replicating this ship all over the world. But yeah, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.040 this is gonna be an extremely rudimentary breakdown of the 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.640 Haitian Revolution, and I highly recommend listeners check out The 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.040 Black Chep Jacobins by c. LR James for a more 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.440 into depth account of what went down in Haiti in 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.280 the seventeen nineties. So the history of Haiti's founding is 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.280 when weighs heavily on the people who are in the 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.920 streets today pretty much. Christopher Columbus, he claimed one half 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.520 of it for the Spanish crown in sixteen then the 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.240 French claimed the other half in sixteen sixty, and the 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.520 two nations stars fighting over control of the territory. Spanish 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.960 ultimately seeded the land of the French in sixte and 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.440 in the end result Haiti had over a hundred years 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.840 of rule by two European powers for the right to 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.000 oversee one of the wealthiest colonies that was heavily dependent 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.599 on African slave labor to run the sugar plantation. There's 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.600 so many parallels in like the way ship went down 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.360 in Haiti, down to the fact that Christopher Columbus quote 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.640 unquote discovered Haiti in two Where have we heard that before? 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.120 Heavy quotations on that heavy quotation mark heavy shout out 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.880 to the people who were there first um life on 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.279 santaming as they called it. Then San Domingo was broken 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.360 down into three classes. You had LeBlanc, so the white colonists, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.560 which were further subdivided into plantation owners and lower class 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.680 whites who were often oversea years and day laborers. And 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.680 then you had the gensa colord libre, or the free 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.479 black folks, who were usually mixed rate children of flavors 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.719 who or people who had purchased their freedom. And then interestingly, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.160 some of them owned and operated their own plantation and 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.599 owned slaves. And then there was a third group, the 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.840 African born slaves, who vastly outnumbered the other groups. I'm 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.640 talking like ten to one. And I break all this 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.520 down because it very again, very closely mirrors the class 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.440 system in demographic breakdown of many parts of the Antebelle himself. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.599 But it's precisely why the Haitian Revolution scared the ship 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.720 out of Americans at the time, and probably why we 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.000 don't learn about it in school today anyway. So these 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.960 three fucking groups anyway, so these three groups fucking hated 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.160 each other. As historian Paul for Ghost he put it, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.080 the poor whites couldn't stand the rich whites, and the 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.440 rich whites despised the poor whites. The middle class wise 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.160 were jealous of the aristocratic whites, and the whites born 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.599 in France looked down upon the locally born whites. Mulatto's 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.920 envied the whites, despised the blacks, and were despised by 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.720 the whites. Free negroes brutalized those who are still slaves. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.520 Haitian born blacks regarded those from Africa's savages. Everyone quite 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.400 rightfully lived in terror of everyone else. It's funny because 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.680 when when read that quote, I pictured like the player 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:08.720 hats ball, just like hate hate the way smell, just 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.119 like hating on each other. Um. When heads started rolling 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.039 in France during the French Revolution and the National Assembly 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.200 published a Declaration of Rights of Man and the Citizens 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.880 declaring all men free and equal, everybody in Haiti was 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:27.480 like oh word, but for their own separate, class driven reasons. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.599 The whites wanted independence from France. The free blacks were 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.719 agitating for suffrage, one prominent freedman leading a three hundred 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.159 person siege on the largest busiest Haitian port in the 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.600 name of ending racial discrimination, while the enslaved Africans kind 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.640 of stood by the side, you know, just kind of watching. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.800 And that was all until the night. One night in 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:53.839 August one, oh yeah, taking a queue from the message 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.839 of the French Revolution, the Haitians launched a revolt. Thousands 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.520 of slaves attending a secret voodoo Sarah money it's a 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.839 tropical storm came in and later that night returning to 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.479 their plantations and began to kill their masters, plunging the 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.080 colony into civil war. Within the next ten days, slaves 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.080 had taken control of the entire northern province of Haiti, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.520 and within weeks the number of slaves who joined the 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:23.360 revolt in the north reached one hundred thousand. Within two months, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.800 as the violence escalated, the slaves killed four thousand whites 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.320 and burn and destroyed a hundred eighty sugar plantations and 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:35.720 hundreds of coffee and indigo plantations. But slave rebels controlled 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:41.000 a third of the island. Hat right there, isn't it. 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:42.880 It's just okay, And I want to be very clear, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.000 it's not because I'm plot revelations. It's because, like the 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.800 the they outnumbered that there appressors tend to one, and 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.240 they decided they were gonna take it anymore. And like, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.280 I really feel like it comes back to what I 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.120 was saying at the top, or I would saying, no 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:58.880 what I was saying the last episode about the powers 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.960 of people, like we just realized we outnumbered the people 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.320 who are making our lives out and just say we 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:05.760 ain't gona take it anymore. And that can take the 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.520 form of a general strike. Everybody's walking off the job, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.360 shutting down ports, shutting down factories, shutting down highways, just 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.120 bringing society to a standstill, like you can change things. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.920 By eighteen o four, Haiti was an independent republic, like 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.480 and they all took with a couple of thousand slaves, 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:28.800 being like no, like, there's ten of us for each 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.760 one of you. We ain't gonna pick you fucking you know, 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.760 we ain't garden you compa's Historically it was historically it 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.959 was only Haiti and Ethiopia that ended up doing that, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.079 right kind of like I didn't know about Ethiopia, but 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.280 we don't gonna do another episode of I mean, Ethiopia 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.719 wasn't having that ship either. It was like fuck that. 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:52.800 But um so from you know, after gaining independence in 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.920 the Republic of Haiti officially being born, there was a 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.960 task of unifying the country, overcoming in a brief America 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.200 Can occupation. Of course, we couldn't stay in our business. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:09.560 Contested election after contested election, coup attempts, actual coup's. Political 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.559 struggle runs deep in the nation's history. Several regimes in 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:18.679 Haiti have been described as fascist regimes, from Luis Luis 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:24.000 Borno and the later government of France Suis du Valier. Yeah, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.400 that brings us to present day and I think contextualizes 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.480 some of I think what Eugene talks about in a 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.680 minute around just like the uniqueness of the way people 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.520 are organizing and taking the streets in Haiti right now. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.719 It's like in it's kind of in people's blood. So 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.000 let's get into talking about Joviano Mooys in some of 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.920 the current context. Born Jovino Mooys was a Haitian businessman 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.640 with his hands a little bit of everything and autoparts business, 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:55.319 banana plantation, drinking water distribution and many other ventures. He 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.079 was hand picked by his predecessor, Michelle Martelli to run 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.280 as the presidential candidate back into the fifteen under the 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:06.480 Patient tet Kale Party or p h t K. Martelli 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.800 himself founded that in two thousand twelve, he ran on 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.400 a platform that promoted bioecological agriculture is the backbone of 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.199 Haiti's economy. It was you know, it's got over rural 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.840 population and he supported universal education and health care, energy reform, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.680 rule of law, environmental protection and development of Haiti as 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.520 a destination for eco terrorism. It all sounds good so 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:37.000 far right, so I know for you universal logic. His 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.880 rise to power just from the outset was Mardern controversy 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.599 and the current protests that are going on over him particular. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.000 It's not new, it's just gotten more intense. Yeah. So 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.280 exit polling after the election and showed him receiving only 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.079 six percent of the vote, but then he was given 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.320 thirty two, qualifying him to participate in the run off 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.559 election against June Celestine, the second place finisher. So out 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.240 the gate he was met with mathive protests and calls 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.959 the fraud two thousand sixteen to runoff was called his 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.280 favor only off of preliminary results ain't ship with an 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:20.719 estimatedent voter turnout total. The dispute over his mandate saw 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:25.800 an interim president installed and finally after getting fifty in 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.439 a of the vote in another special election he was 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.920 sworn in. What a ship show anyway. So in Porta Prince, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.000 there's gang warfare in the streets among competing factions who 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.480 support or oppose Moise, and there's a lot of suspicion 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.199 that the rising murderate and the unprecedented number of kidnapping 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.360 networks has ties to the Moise government, but the accusation 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.079 that he's using violence and kidnappings to scare opposition in 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.400 the population at large eeen. A massacre took place in 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.120 the lass A Lean part of Porta Prince, carried out 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.199 by the G nine gang, which is probably the most 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.719 notorious of these gangs that are operating there. They have 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.640 long suspected ties to most Seventy people were killed in 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.680 fourteen hours in the U and the U S would 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.480 eventually implicate and sanctioned two members of his administration for 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.559 planning the attacks and providing weapons to G nine in 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.360 order to quell corruption protests or in order to quell 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.760 anti corruption protests. This all took place after the U 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.160 N pulled out peacekeeping troops who were there on a 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.959 thirteen year occupation, so it's like they waited for the 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.320 moment to strike. So yeah, things are going real well. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.600 So yeah, earlier this year he's like, are you seven down? 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.440 I got another year. I'm staying in office. Y'all can't 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.839 give her to me, and the people weren't having it. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.400 So we're gonna talk to journalist Eugene per Year, who 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:41.839 was recently on the ground and got to work in 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.679 his things firsthand, to help get a better understanding of 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:54.559 what is happening in Haiti today. I'm joined by a journalist, activist, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.839 and politician, Eugene per Year. Even It's a founding member 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.320 of the Party for Socialism and Liberation IT in two 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.160 thousand eight sixteen ran as their vice presidential candidate. UM. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.839 He's also the author of Shackled and Chained Mass in 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.760 Carstration in Capitalist America and it's host of the show 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.120 The Freedom Side on Breakthrough News. He also reasently returned 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.800 from Haiti, where he and his team covered the uprising 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.839 against authoritarianism and government corruption there. Thanks so much for 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.920 being your Eugene, And to start, I wondered if you 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.400 could talk to us a little bit about why you 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.880 and your team decided to go to Haiti. Yeah, well, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:29.520 you know, first and foremost, thank you so much for 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.920 having me really honored to be here and you know, 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.480 to have the opportunity to to share what we saw 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.800 because the reason we really went to Haiti um with 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.480 our Breakthrough News team is you know, it was obvious 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.559 from the outside looking in that there is a major 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.000 popular struggle breaking out in Haiti, but the state of 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.600 Medio and Haiti is basically disaster born by and large, 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.439 like people just looking for the most sensational images, and 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.520 we do that there is a lot more to it obviously, 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.360 like in terms of the broader geopolitics of it and 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.839 what was going on domestically, and you know, could we 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.199 find a way to get there on the ground to 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.079 get the voice of the people who are involved in 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.280 this movement, to try to give people a sense that 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.200 it's not just sort of uh, you know, Haitians as 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.679 as objects, but as subjects, and you know, really that 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.480 people are you know, engaged in an attempt to take 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.040 their own lives into their own hands and make major 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.440 changes in the country. But the US and the OAS 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.680 and these other institutions playing such a huge role and 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.480 seeing how so much of what is happening there is 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.240 is not by accidents, not endemic, but it's really imposed. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.160 So you know, that's why we wanted to be there, 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.920 and and we were there specifically around the Constitution Day. Um. 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:45.880 The data was celebrates the Constitution because there is such 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.720 a major attack on that right now, So we were 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.880 also there for that sort of particular moment. Yeah. So 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.680 protests in Haiti have been going on since he does 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.600 an a in response to rising field prices that have 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.000 evolved into demands for the removal of President A Naw Moys. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.200 Can you fill them listeners a little bit of the 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.440 background of the current unrest, What has happened in the 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.320 years since, um, the current uprising has started, and what 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.960 how things came to a tipping point recently. Absolutely, so, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.760 you know, I working backwards, I would say that what 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.360 has really made this crisis erupted in a huge way 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.800 from kind of early February on until now has been 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.160 that on February seven was the end of President Moy's 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.520 term and he just unilaterally decided that he was going 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.680 to say, well, actually my term ends next year, so 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.480 I'm just going to remain as the president at this point. Uh. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.400 In the justice system were less it come to a halt, uh, 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.760 And so it was ruling principally as a dictator, and 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.760 so the level of anger against him for many reasons 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.560 rose to a fever pitch because he was refusing to 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.960 give up power in the context of of this you know, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.360 technical democratic system of Haiti, but it's also tied to 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.840 the already existing deep anger that had existed with Moy's 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.280 since team. Really and you know, this was when a 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.280 scandal emerge when there was about three point about three 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.680 billion dollars in development aid from Venezuela that was embezzled 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.400 and stolen by Moys and his crnies and his party, 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.920 the p h t k UH. And given the discrepancy 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:22.600 between the large amount of poverty and oppression faced by 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.080 so many people in Haiti Uh and billions of dollars 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.080 of development aid being stolen, it was really the tipping 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.440 point for a lot of people. Um that Boy's had 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.200 to go, but he was able to hang on for 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.680 the rest of his term. But now he's decided to 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.280 overstay his term and it is really sort of pushed 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.880 people to come back out, not just because he's overstaying 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.880 his term directly, but because it represents an undemocratic imposition 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:49.000 of this This extraordinarily brutal social system. To tell us 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.160 a little bit about what the protests have looked like 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.760 and what the government's response has been. You know, the 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:58.280 protests in Haiti are amazing on so many different levels. Um. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.880 And you know, folks, good to be two newsroom. They 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.640 can see some of our coverage from being out there. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.720 I mean, I would say, you know, one thing that 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.760 is definitely very notable about all Asian protests is the 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.159 role of music is definitely very big. You know, in 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.159 the biggest protest on Sunday, actually in both, but the 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.639 bigger one that we read is uh, in the lead 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.760 up to Constitution Day, you know, there was a giant 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.920 sound truck like in the front of the thing just 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.640 mainly blasting music. I saw two different brass bands. Um, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.159 you know they were just driving. It's just very just 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.640 suffused throughout it. Um, a huge amount of cultural expression, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.920 which I think is fantastic. Uh. It was a large 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:36.639 it was a huge demonstration. I mean it was definitely 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.920 over a hundred thousand people. And you know port of 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.320 Prints where where we were for most of the demonstrations, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:42.840 so that we did get out into the rule areas 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.680 on some previous days um. But port of prints is 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.800 pretty spread out, so the marches, they'll be like one 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.560 general place that starts from, but people will come from 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.920 other places. So there's this amazing area of ported prints. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.560 It's known as the Crossroads of Resistance UM, where people 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.080 meet up from all the different parts of Court of 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.359 Prince and then demonstrations continue from that point to to 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.240 many other places. So it's a massive, this massive convergence 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.120 of people um that is there, and I would say 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.120 that you know, it locks down significant parts of the city, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.159 so it has a big economic impact um. You know, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.600 almost like a strike or a super effective boycott um 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.280 as well, just a fact of having these mass demonstrations. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.680 But uh yeah, I mean it's almost kind of hard 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.800 to explain in a way, but it's the level of 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.920 of of just just raw enthusiasm for people to like 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.680 take down Jovanel Moys and people are so uh to 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.680 turn like no one really has a lot of doubts 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.600 that they're going to succeed that. I would say that's 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.320 the other thing about the nature of the demonstrations of 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.520 the chance and things like that are very much not 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.399 like you know, uh, we want you to do this. 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.280 It's sort of like, not only are you gonna do 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:56.959 like not only should you do this, but you are 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.360 going to do this and we will ultimately be victorious. 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.080 So um, not those exact words, but in that vein 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.119 So yeah, definitely, it's it's a powerful experience and you know, 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.879 even just the sort of cultural environment around you. Um, so, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.879 Haiti is actually the only country in the world that 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.480 has a street named after John Brown. So and like 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.000 it just kind of a surreal moment in one of 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.320 these marches, Um Juan, who is also there with me 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.360 to break through newspoints out. We're on John Brown Avenue 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.520 or whatever boulevard. So we're going, we're doing different things. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.000 And then the demonstration takes a left and when we 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.639 take a left, I look at the street side. I 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.520 noticed that it's the Martin Luther King Street. So I 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.119 just said, well, this is wild to be like in 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.680 a march in Haiti on John Brown Boulevard turning onto 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.360 Martin Luther King uh Street there and then the level 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.000 of internationalism also is very high in the protest because 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.760 people are very cognizant of the role that that these 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.800 other countries are playing, these imperioless countries. So um, that's 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.320 also something you see a lot of, uh, you know, 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.600 I saw some American flag, We're burned. There's definitely a 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.879 lot of feeling, a lot of anger that people have 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.560 that Biden is so squarely behind Moist. So that was 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.600 definitely heavily expressed. And then so I would love to 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.880 talk to you more about some of the larger subspolitical 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.080 issues that the current unrest sort of like has arisen 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.080 out of. You mentioned imperialism the Biden administration, But first, 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.840 what is the government's response been to uh, this this uprising. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.280 You know, it's been brutal repression. I mean, you know, 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.000 many protests of course have been fired on with live rounds, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.920 with the so called non lethal ammunition. Uh. You know, 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.440 there's been beatings of journalists and things like that. So 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.880 just from that perspective, there's been a lot of sort 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.680 of I mean, the larger the demonstration usually the less 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.359 open the repression is because you know, to some degree, 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.359 though there's not a lot of coverage, I think they 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.280 have some sense that you know, they're benefactors around the world, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.560 would not like for them to see too much. Um, 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.359 but definitely it's it's significant and it's notable. I would 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.000 say also there's really sort of like a strategy of 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.600 tension at play that the government is playing some role in, 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.119 although it's not clear at least to me um on 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.240 what that is. So, you know, a lot of the 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.720 folks are talking about the level of violence in Haiti 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.960 and how there has been the two increase in kidnappings 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.280 in the past year, uh and so on and so forth, 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.120 and there's no doubt that that that is in fact 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.000 the case. Um there has been really increase in kidnapping 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.439 as kind of a crime of desperation, but also violence 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.240 more generally has gone up as there has So there's 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.480 really a security vacuum in Haiti and there's no real 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.040 it's it's entirely I mean, it's just amazingly neoliberal. There's 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:43.200 almost no public services, almost no social services, um. You know, 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.520 like even the cops, which technically are controlled by Mlay's 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.560 half the cops have quit, so there's very little state capacity. 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.159 So there's a lot of entities that they're called gangs, 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:53.520 I don't know if that's even the best way to 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.440 describe them, um that have arisen that are providing some 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:03.960 form of like basic social government security services. I think 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:08.280 they have sort of differing, you know, ideologies, goals, positions, 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.840 but there's a lot of a lot of a lot 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:17.000 of inter uh intermural rivalry, if you will, between them, 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.399 and a lot of killings and other attacks are driven 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.320 by these sorts of conflicts that are sort of presented 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.720