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Speaker 1: To one more howl. They don't laugh though the gray

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Speaker 1: wolf is in danger. In the nineteen seventies, wolves were

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Speaker 1: one of the first species to be protected under the

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Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act. Due to population decline in the years

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Speaker 1: that followed, Congress removed protections from gray wolves, first in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Rocky Mountains, then across the country. By February

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Speaker 1: of two, federal protections were restored to wolves and much

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Speaker 1: of the contiguous United States, except in the Northern Rocky

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Speaker 1: Mountain region, where more than of the killing of wolves occurs.

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Speaker 1: I've always been passionate about animals and their welfare, so

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Speaker 1: on this episode of my podcast, we're talking about how

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Speaker 1: we can help protect the gray wolf and learn more

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Speaker 1: about these wonderful creatures. Joining me today or Samantha Atwood,

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Speaker 1: co founding member of the hashtag Realist Wolves Campaign, and

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Speaker 1: Maggie Howell, executive director of the Wolf Conservation Center right

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Speaker 1: here near my home in South Salem, New York. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to my podcast, Maggie and Samantha, and it's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to have you here to talk because wolves are on

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Speaker 1: a lot of people's minds right now. Do you know why.

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Speaker 1: I hope it's because campaign. Well, I wish it were

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Speaker 1: just your campaign, but you should be very thankful that

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Speaker 1: Kevin Costner and Yellowstone have brought wolves to the forefront

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Speaker 1: of everybody's sort of consciousness. Uh. You know, you watch that.

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Speaker 1: You watch the conflict on that show between the conservationists

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Speaker 1: who are trying to save the wolves and the wildlife

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Speaker 1: in the national parks and all the contiguous properties, and

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Speaker 1: then you see the the ranchers who want to kill

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Speaker 1: the wolves because they kill the calves and the data.

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Speaker 1: But um, but I think we are all kind of thinking.

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Speaker 1: All my friends are watching Yellowstone and thinking wolves and

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Speaker 1: um and did you put that together or not? Sort of,

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Speaker 1: so I have to say, what do you think are

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Speaker 1: do you think they're doing a disservice or a service?

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Speaker 1: So the wolf population on that show, I think any

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Speaker 1: point at which the wolves are becoming part of the

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Speaker 1: conversation is a win, right it open. That's what I think.

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Speaker 1: That's what I think, And I think that you have

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Speaker 1: a chance now and opening a big opening to get

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Speaker 1: to all those millions of people that are watching Yellowstone

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Speaker 1: season five. So it's it's kind of interesting, it really is. No,

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Speaker 1: we really appreciate the opportunity here. Well, Maggie and Samantha, Um,

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Speaker 1: tell me what is the hashtag realist Wolves campaign all about? Okay,

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Speaker 1: the Releast Wolves campaign is a campaign aimed at restoring

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Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act protections to the gray wolf across the

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Speaker 1: entire you know, forty lower forty eight states in the

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Speaker 1: United States are campaign. We founded in a June shortly

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Speaker 1: after there's this really horrible wolf hunt in Wisconsin where

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Speaker 1: two eighteen wolves were killed in under sixty hours by

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Speaker 1: any means necessary, running them down with a TVs, packs

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Speaker 1: of dogs, night hunting, baiting, snaring. What was the reason?

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Speaker 1: The reason is, well, Maggie, you want to take that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know what did they say? Why did they

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Speaker 1: go on such a massive hunt? So because wolves have

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Speaker 1: been um protected due to illegal battles, have been going

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Speaker 1: back and forth over wolf protection, um really across the

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Speaker 1: United States. And so when it was actually from a

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Speaker 1: President Trump, he's really the exiting kind of speech almost

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Speaker 1: out of the office, was to delist wolves nationwide. So

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Speaker 1: after protections were lost, um, really, there were some people

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Speaker 1: just raring to go for a long time, um to

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Speaker 1: kill wolves. And there's a lot of it just based

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Speaker 1: on fear and hatred, um, which is really unfortunate. And

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Speaker 1: but really what we saw happen, you know, as soon

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Speaker 1: as they lost protections is just just how important protections are.

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Speaker 1: And uh and really Samanthan mentioned it was like sixty hours,

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Speaker 1: um and these are wolves, wolf pups, you know it was.

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Speaker 1: But what do you do with a population that exists

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Speaker 1: today that carry guns. Why does a regulation stop them

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Speaker 1: from killing wolves? It doesn't really does it. One of

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Speaker 1: the things we say is legal killing leads to more

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Speaker 1: illegal killing, so it emboldens everybody when these protections were lost. Look,

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Speaker 1: you can't save every single wolf. Will there be poachers? Yes, However,

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Speaker 1: regulation has a massive impact on protecting these species. And

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Speaker 1: that's the goal of the campaign, which is actually to

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Speaker 1: restore these protections wolves, and to do it in a

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Speaker 1: way that's a little bit interesting and out of the box,

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Speaker 1: where we're talking to the public, we're putting pressure on

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Speaker 1: public officials. We're going about this in a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a different way, because interestingly enough, this issue until

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Speaker 1: recently has really flown under the radar in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: You know, you love your dog, you love nature. There's

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Speaker 1: only fewer than six thousand wolves left in the lower

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Speaker 1: forty eight states. We're not talking at all, that's all.

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Speaker 1: And they're being hunted down. Montana and Idaho alone pass

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Speaker 1: legislation to incentivize the killing of between eighty five and

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Speaker 1: nine of their wolf populations. It's the cattle, I think.

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Speaker 1: Sitting where we are, it can be a little hard

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Speaker 1: to understand when you look at the data. Wolves are

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Speaker 1: responsible for less than one percent of unwanted deaths of

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Speaker 1: cattle that's unwanted, that includes disease, sickness, birds of prey,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, wolves are responsible for one percent,

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Speaker 1: and the data really doesn't actually support um. You know

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Speaker 1: what's happening here. And frankly, it's not a zero sum game.

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Speaker 1: It's not kill wolves, protect cattle, protect you know, keep

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Speaker 1: the wolves. You know, all the cattle are going to

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Speaker 1: get eaten. There's really really good mechan isms you have,

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Speaker 1: whether it's fencing, flags, lights, uh what do they call livestock,

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Speaker 1: guardian dogs, all of these things that work and allow

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Speaker 1: you to actually coexist with these animals who are incredibly

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Speaker 1: important for our ecosystem. You know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: really major forces working against wolves. You know, whether it's

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Speaker 1: the cattleman kind of lobby or the n R A

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Speaker 1: UM or hunting associations UM, and there's not that many

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Speaker 1: you know groups or I guess a lobby UM really

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Speaker 1: speaking for wolves, and you know they need our voices.

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Speaker 1: So that's why the campaign has been so great, to

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Speaker 1: really elevate what's already been out there among many conservation groups,

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Speaker 1: but to bring it to really people across all different functions.

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Speaker 1: So lawyers, you have, the artists, you have you know,

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Speaker 1: just normally scary and statistic books mentioning the wonderful wolf

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Speaker 1: population and now Yellowstone and yellow just to elevate this

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Speaker 1: and and give everyone an idea of what's really happening

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Speaker 1: and hopefully um, you know, really the roadmap they need

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Speaker 1: to use their voice and create change. So you co

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Speaker 1: founded this grit this group. Well, actually my mom co

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Speaker 1: founded this and I kind of got sucked in, so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a funny story. So you know, my

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Speaker 1: mom is a very passion environmentalist. I I am too,

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Speaker 1: and you know she saw what happened after these hunts

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Speaker 1: and saw what was going on. Mom is Leslie Atwood,

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Speaker 1: who is a neighbor of mine here in Bedford, New York,

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Speaker 1: and uh. And she is a passionate woman in many, many,

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Speaker 1: many different fields. Absolutely, and you she saw what was

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Speaker 1: going on, it was like, wow, you know, we need

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Speaker 1: to kind of taken out of the box approach. Can

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Speaker 1: we all speak in one voice? All these little NGOs,

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Speaker 1: all these groups that are doing such great work on

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Speaker 1: the ground. We're stronger together. You know, we are going

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Speaker 1: to you know, at the risk of stealing someone's phrase

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Speaker 1: over there, you know we are we are able to

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Speaker 1: speak in one voice and it is much more impactful.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of got sucked in because I was

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Speaker 1: going to, you know, help get our our campaign firm,

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Speaker 1: test strategy set up, get a social media expert who

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Speaker 1: you would love, by the way, Brandon Kennedy. He comes

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Speaker 1: from a fashion background to actually look at things a

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Speaker 1: little bit differently. So I was gonna help the team

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Speaker 1: set up. And as I learned more and more about

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Speaker 1: this issue and how important wolves are, I just couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't step away so out of outside of my

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Speaker 1: day job, this is this is what we do. What

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Speaker 1: about you, Maggie, how did you get involved with this campaign? Well,

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Speaker 1: we're practically neighbors with with Jim and Leslie Um and Samantha. So, um,

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Speaker 1: we've known them for quite a bit. In fact, we

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Speaker 1: had a wolf celebrate his fifteenth birthday um at the restaurant. Gosh,

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Speaker 1: some handful of years ago. Um, but it was quite

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Speaker 1: a turnout, but people showing up to celebrate with a

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Speaker 1: big meaty steak and people still talk about it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: still talk about that. So this is one of the

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Speaker 1: wolves from the contribution. Yes, his name was after he

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Speaker 1: since passed away. He passed away, um a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: but um, but boy it was and he was famous.

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Speaker 1: He was a beautiful Yeah. I got to talk to

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Speaker 1: him a couple of times. Did But really I just

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Speaker 1: appreciated new new strength and new kind of um energy

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Speaker 1: coming into the fight for wolves. So I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: the more the merrier, and you know, the strength of

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Speaker 1: the wolf is the pack. And to have the Realist

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Speaker 1: Campaign kind of joined this effort, I just thought it

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Speaker 1: was great and so I want to do anything I

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Speaker 1: could do to help and and it's been really fun collaboration. Well,

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Speaker 1: there are many threatened endangered species of animals. Why are

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Speaker 1: wolves so important? Do you know what a keystone is?

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Speaker 1: So keystone species plays the exact same role in the

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Speaker 1: ecosystem where they basically punch above their weight in terms

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Speaker 1: of the effects they have on the entire environment. And

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Speaker 1: wolves are exactly like that. If you look at the

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Speaker 1: reintroduction to Yellowstone that happened in the nineties, UM, what

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Speaker 1: you saw coming out of that was wolves actually are

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Speaker 1: creating this environment where you know they're they're eating elk, yes,

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Speaker 1: but they're actually making the elk herds move along more quickly,

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Speaker 1: which meant the elk stopped to browsing. Vegetation, allowed the

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Speaker 1: beavers to come back, allowed um erosion to stop alongside

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Speaker 1: the streams, and really you know, allowed these fish to

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Speaker 1: come back. So like all of these as you call

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Speaker 1: like a trophic cascade effect happened within the ecosystem that

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Speaker 1: was really due to these wolves coming back. Wolves are

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Speaker 1: critical for healthy ecosystem. Like I like that analogy to

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Speaker 1: the keystone of a building I have. I have keystones

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Speaker 1: in my arches of the nail on the No, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to lose the keystone because everything comes tumbling down. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the ecosystem that exists in the wild in the

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Speaker 1: United States UM is fragile, becoming more and more fragile

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Speaker 1: with the expansion of the gas lines with the whether

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Speaker 1: the horrible climate crisis that we're experiencing right now and

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Speaker 1: probably forever henceforth, don't you think? And so disbelievers, people

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Speaker 1: who don't see a climate crisis or don't see the

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Speaker 1: what's happening to the wildlife in the United States? How

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Speaker 1: can how can we How how powerful can this group

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Speaker 1: be to to make people pay attention? What can you

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Speaker 1: do and how can we help? As individuals? That's a

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Speaker 1: great question, I would say as individuals, you know, the

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Speaker 1: first step is awareness and education, right and then going

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Speaker 1: to take action. Realists Wolves dot org. You can send

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Speaker 1: letters to your representatives, you can share on social media

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Speaker 1: from at Realist Wolves campaign, and frankly opportunities UM with

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Speaker 1: with folks like yourself, Martha, who are You're You're a

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Speaker 1: keystone in your own way, right you punch above your

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Speaker 1: weight in terms of all the people that you reach

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Speaker 1: using your voice as an incredible opportunity to UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: shed light on this issue and let folks know like

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Speaker 1: there is there is a path here. The path here

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Speaker 1: is to get wolves relisted. That decision lies with the

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Speaker 1: buying in administration and they are currently conducting what's called

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Speaker 1: a status review. So it started in September of one.

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Speaker 1: They said they're gonna take one year because of all

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Speaker 1: the hunting. They were going to make an assessment in

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Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service December. It is they're late,

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Speaker 1: We're waiting. They're late, and they have to know that

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Speaker 1: we're paying attention. So every call you make, every letter

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Speaker 1: you send, shows them that we're paying attention and that

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Speaker 1: this is an issue that you know, I think the public,

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Speaker 1: you know, really should care about. You know, six thousand

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Speaker 1: wolves may not seem like such a big deal in

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Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, but every little bit helps everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked and in the lower forty eight. Yes, are

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Speaker 1: they protected in Canada? Canada is facing many of the

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Speaker 1: similar issues. Yeah, there's a the Gonquin wolf is some

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Speaker 1: protections just Alon, Yes, just north of Aspen the Eastern

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Speaker 1: are Algonquin wolf. But generally they're it's pretty much open

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Speaker 1: season on wolves. I consider them gorgeous creatures. I love

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Speaker 1: dogs that look like wolves, and I think about wolves

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Speaker 1: and I think about how badly they've been treated by

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Speaker 1: so many people. Farmers have done terrible things to wolves.

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Speaker 1: When one of the things I can't do I can

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Speaker 1: stand is to read some of the bad things people

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Speaker 1: have done to them. They're not they're not humans, and

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Speaker 1: they don't know that they're being you know why they're

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Speaker 1: being tortured. Uh, and they tortured them. So what can

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Speaker 1: we do? Just letters? Letters outraging about this outrage? And

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Speaker 1: also like do you make do you make a lot

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Speaker 1: of personal appearances talking talking about wolves two groups? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know, to some degree, I think at anything we

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Speaker 1: can do to get into the public conversation is what

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Speaker 1: we want to do. And you know you mentioned their animals,

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Speaker 1: they don't have a voice. It's our obligation and responsibility

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Speaker 1: to actually be the voice when we can. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: like the octopus. I mean, I did you watch My

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Speaker 1: Octopus Teachers? Did you watch that? And yet every single

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Speaker 1: restaurant that's had octopus on the menu still has octopus

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Speaker 1: on the menu. I will not eat octopus. I mean

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Speaker 1: I never eat it anyway, because because I've always loved octopus,

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Speaker 1: but as a creature. But it's just incredible, They're just

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Speaker 1: they don't It doesn't make any difference. And that was

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Speaker 1: a powerful movie, powerful documentary, and the difference between octopus

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Speaker 1: and wolves is that the octopus doesn't isn't surrounded already

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Speaker 1: in this cloak of untruths and myths and fables that

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Speaker 1: have been, you know, around for centuries. So beyond giving

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Speaker 1: the wolf of voice and asking people to protect wolves

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Speaker 1: and care about wolves, we have a lot of unraveling

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Speaker 1: to do, um to change perceptions of the wolf, because

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Speaker 1: already people have really poor the big bad wolf and

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Speaker 1: little red riding hood. I mean, this is why this

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Speaker 1: was brand even our language. You know, just just if

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Speaker 1: you open the New York Times on a given day,

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to see some Wolf of Wall Street

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Speaker 1: or lone wolf terrorist or really just we have to

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Speaker 1: kind of unleash some of these negative connectations that we

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Speaker 1: connect to the word wolf um and kind of start

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Speaker 1: from scratch that people can understand what they really are,

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Speaker 1: their wild animals living their own like wild lives, but

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Speaker 1: their family, you know, just trying to do and survive

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Speaker 1: and thrive on the landscape. So incomes another canine. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's a canine, the coyote that lives all around

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Speaker 1: us here in it's just your county. What do you

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Speaker 1: think about them? I love coyotes. The thing about coyotes

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Speaker 1: that I find most remarkable is that just like wolves,

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Speaker 1: they can persecuted for centuries and they're thriving. And now

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Speaker 1: they're not only thriving, but they're all four the forty

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Speaker 1: nine of our fifty states, so every state except Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of being outfoxed, the coyote is remarkable. Um, However,

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Speaker 1: still we're killing the hundreds of thousands. I have a

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Speaker 1: pack of coyotes on my property. They couldn't just well

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Speaker 1: be wolves. I would have a very hard time shooting

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Speaker 1: a coyote. Yeah, and yet the coyotes are wreaking havoc

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Speaker 1: on the farm. I mean, here, I am living in

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Speaker 1: this this little world, here, this little hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: acre world of mine, wondering what the heck am I

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Speaker 1: going to do with these beautiful creatures? They walk with

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Speaker 1: me when I ride my horse, the coyotes. It's interesting horse.

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Speaker 1: I talked to them. They listen. And yet there they

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Speaker 1: go at lunch time not long ago, and ate six

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Speaker 1: of my most beautiful peacocks. I'm sorry about they did.

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Speaker 1: They just ate them at daytime, at noon when everybody

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Speaker 1: else was having their lunch. They had their lunch, and

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Speaker 1: uh and and then I called the town. I said,

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Speaker 1: is there some way to and I'm fenced, but coyotes

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Speaker 1: have their way of getting in and over and under fences.

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Speaker 1: Have to set something up for you because there are

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Speaker 1: lots of really neat tools to use, um that can

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Speaker 1: be proactive, non lethal to help the turn. Are you

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Speaker 1: doing that from people being beleaguered by wolves chew out

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Speaker 1: in the West. We don't do it personally at the

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Speaker 1: Wolf Conservation Center because we're here wolves, but definitely that

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Speaker 1: works would be very good because I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: about to go out and shoot the coyotes. And actually,

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Speaker 1: you say they could be wolves, you know, in terms

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Speaker 1: of they could be wolves, they actually are a little

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Speaker 1: bit wolf. I know they are because yeah, well the

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Speaker 1: coyotes we have in this area are called Eastern coyotes. Well,

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Speaker 1: we had a pack of seven babies last year, and

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Speaker 1: I've watched them grow up, and some of them are

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Speaker 1: really dark, almost black, and some are kind of a

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Speaker 1: golden color. And there they are, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: you look at I go out with flashlights at night

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Speaker 1: and find them. And but what do we do My

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Speaker 1: my domesticated animals cannot roam my dogs. I'm not worried

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Speaker 1: about my dogs. And funny because my dogs would would

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Speaker 1: make mincemeat of the coyotes, I think. But I don't

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Speaker 1: want my dogs to have the taste of blood like that.

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Speaker 1: I just don't want them to So I want them

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Speaker 1: to get in a fight. But what do you do?

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Speaker 1: What do you do? What do you do? Um? There

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Speaker 1: are things just most A lot of it's based on fear. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of animals, wolves, coyotes have something called neophobia,

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Speaker 1: fear of anything new. So it could be flattery, like

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of flags or ribbons that are on

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Speaker 1: fence line or noisemakers, um, you know, just anything that's

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Speaker 1: going to shock them so they don't feel comfortable. So

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean the dogs are pretty noisy, they're

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Speaker 1: not afraid of people's I'm so they probably thought they

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Speaker 1: were like toys. I mean, big giant peas are not.

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Speaker 1: They're as big as the coyotes, if not bigger. Quite

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Speaker 1: a snack. It was really something. But back to back

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Speaker 1: to tell us about the gray wolf, because I think

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Speaker 1: everybody says that's really what we're trying to trying to

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Speaker 1: protect the most now since there's only six thousand of them. Um,

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Speaker 1: and there's many millions of I bet there's millions of coyotes, right, millions,

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Speaker 1: So what about the gray wolf? I think I think

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Speaker 1: the one thing I would say on the last point though,

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Speaker 1: is that, like the conflict reduction methods are very similar.

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Speaker 1: When you're dealing with predators. It really is about you know,

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Speaker 1: securing as much as you can, but you can't secure

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Speaker 1: everything right, So it is lights. It is like a

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Speaker 1: livestyle guardian, dogs, range writers, various things that work. And

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Speaker 1: I think what we want to highlight is there is

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Speaker 1: a middle ground here, right, there are solutions, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know, in my opinion, those are the things that

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Speaker 1: we really should be funding at the state level to

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Speaker 1: try to coexist with these beautiful creatures here that people

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Speaker 1: all were going to be overrun by wolves. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: there's six thousand of them. I think we're really far

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Speaker 1: off from that. We're going in the wrong direction. But

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Speaker 1: even where there's like all of these elk, all of

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Speaker 1: this food, all of this environment, it's hard being a wolf.

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Speaker 1: You have to chase down huge prey, very high mortality

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Speaker 1: rates and um. And so they've actually really stabilized, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, sadly, last season there were twenty five Yellowstone

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Speaker 1: wolves who were killed. That's the population. There are only

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Speaker 1: a d and twenty five in the park, which is

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Speaker 1: where they were lured out of the park and shot.

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Speaker 1: How were they lured The new laws that were passed

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Speaker 1: in just in the past couple of years UM allowed

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Speaker 1: baiting for the first time. So they had people baiting

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Speaker 1: the you know, right beyond the kind of boundary, that

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Speaker 1: invisible boundary. UM would learn them from the safety of

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Speaker 1: the park and making calls like anything they could do

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Speaker 1: to get the wolves out. And these are rules. By

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Speaker 1: the way, most wouls are not accustomed to people, but

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Speaker 1: people come to Yellowstone to sea wolves. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: it Like I think there's two million dollars per year

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Speaker 1: in tourism revenue of people coming to see wolves in

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Speaker 1: this area, and so they're kind of used to people.

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Speaker 1: They're not expecting this invisible boundary. You cross it, you're

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Speaker 1: going to be shot and killed. How terribly unfair is

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Speaker 1: that it is? And that's in Yellowstone where there is

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Speaker 1: no management, there's no lethal management to control their populations,

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Speaker 1: and that population has stabilized over the years. And the

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Speaker 1: same thing in Wisconsin, where they've been protected for um

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Speaker 1: a handful of years, and during that time without having

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Speaker 1: these state state sanction hunts, they saw that the population

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Speaker 1: reached carrying capacity. That means it really was able to

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Speaker 1: kind of control itself and has stabilized UM, which demonstrated

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Speaker 1: that there's no in terms of population control. The wolves

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Speaker 1: that they're set, that's not a problem. They can do

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Speaker 1: that without our help. How big is a gray wolf ah, Um,

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Speaker 1: Well they vary. There are different kinds of gray wolves. UM.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people think from fairy tales or

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Speaker 1: movies like Twilight what have you, that there are these monstrous,

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Speaker 1: huge animals. UM. Like in the Great Lakes area of Minnesota, Wisconsin, Wish, Michigan,

381
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Speaker 1: a female might be seventy to ninety maybe hundred pounds.

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Speaker 1: A male might get to a hundred ten pounds UM.

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Speaker 1: In the Northern Rockies Great and that Great Jans, they're

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Speaker 1: like a giant German shipherds. Yeah, they get a little

385
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Speaker 1: bit bigger in the in the northern Rocky states of

386
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Speaker 1: like Montana, Wyoming and Idaho, UM, a male might be

387
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Speaker 1: a hundred fifteen pounds UM. They can be bigger. There's

388
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Speaker 1: been a few in Yellowstone that were over a hundred

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Speaker 1: and THIRTYE knows all of this intimately because as director

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Speaker 1: of the Wolf Conservation Center here in South Salem. How

391
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Speaker 1: many wolves do you have there? Now? We have thirty two?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, you have a lot more. Yes, last time

393
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Speaker 1: I was there was a couple of years ago, and

394
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Speaker 1: now you have thirty two. What kind of wolves? Um? Well,

395
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Speaker 1: there are different kinds. We have um two wolves that

396
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Speaker 1: we just call a kind of our generic which sounds terrible,

397
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: but gray wolves and they're who, um, the wolves that

398
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: helped teach people, so there aren't bassids or education wolves.

399
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Speaker 1: And their names are Laywa and Nicai. And then we

400
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Speaker 1: have ten critically endangered red wolves, which is a totally

401
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: different species of wolf um that are currently living only

402
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Speaker 1: here in the north or southeast um in the state

403
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Speaker 1: of North Carolina. And then we have twenty Mexican gray wolves,

404
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Speaker 1: which are gray wolves but a different subspecies of gray wolf.

405
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Speaker 1: And they're about um, we have twenty of those and

406
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Speaker 1: they're about two hundred little fewer than two hundred in

407
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Speaker 1: the southwest United States. They're all in pretty bad shape

408
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: numbers wise. Yeah. What does the what does your conservation

409
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Speaker 1: center do for these wolves? Sure? Yeah, so we Obviously

410
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: we house them, we take care of them, we nurture them. UM.

411
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Speaker 1: But we're really teaching people about them. So we do

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Speaker 1: a lot of education programs. We have people on site,

413
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Speaker 1: we do remote programs, we do scientific webinars. We really

414
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Speaker 1: try to get that education at every level. How big

415
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Speaker 1: an area do you have for them to roam? We

416
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: have thirty four acres right now. Are they kept separate

417
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: or are they enclosures? It's they're separated by family groups.

418
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Speaker 1: So we have some families are just a pair of wolves. UM.

419
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: We have some families that are quite larger, up to

420
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: eight wolves, UM, that are multigenerational. But wolves ultimately live

421
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: or belong in the wild. So even you know, if

422
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Speaker 1: we have an enclosure that's say two acres or more,

423
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Speaker 1: it's it's they're dynamic creatures. They belong in the wild,

424
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Speaker 1: so keeping them in captivity is really difficult. UM. We

425
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Speaker 1: have no wolves wild in this area, do no. UM.

426
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: There has been the occasional wolf that's gotten into the Northeast,

427
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: likely from Canada UM usually UM and even into New

428
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: York UM. But those animals are usually coming via like

429
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: dead wolves. That's the only way we find out about

430
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: them because we have really robust coyote hunting throughout the Northeast.

431
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: People like, oh, I killed a really large coyote. They

432
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: do some genetic tests and confirmed that it was a wolf,

433
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: and that's happened a couple of times, so they're really

434
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: close by. But there's no populations just kind of known,

435
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: no proven populations to be here right now, what's the

436
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: lifespan of a gray wolf? Um? It really depends, you know.

437
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: Samantha touched on this earlier. How living in the wild

438
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: is hard even before you put the kind of the

439
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: human component in there. But um, you know, most pups

440
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: don't even survive to adulthood. About sixty percent of pups

441
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: UM die within the first year, usually of starvation. UM.

442
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: And during the late summer I think is the hardest time,

443
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: early fall. UM. But if they get past that that

444
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: first year and make it to two years old, they'll

445
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: likely make it maybe two four to six years old.

446
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: If there's no you know, hunting UM. So those you

447
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: know that the things that we can really be an

448
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: issue would be disease, UM starvation usually just for the

449
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: youngsters UM and UH and actually other wolves. So wolves

450
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: are a top predator, but they're also have lots of

451
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: competitors out there, and wolves will compete with mountain lions,

452
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: wolves will compete with um bears, they will compete with

453
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: coyotes to a degree um, but they also compete with

454
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: other wolves. So they're very much like people and that

455
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: they have their home turf kind of like their their

456
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: area and they're going to defend their territory um from

457
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: their neighbors. Fox fox don't really pose much of a

458
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: competition risk for wolves. Their pack animals wolves yep. So

459
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: how big is a pack um? That varies, But basically,

460
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: you know what a wolf pack is essentially just a

461
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: family um. Even you know, the alpha male alpha female

462
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: kind of terms have been pretty much uh you know,

463
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: aren't used so much in there in the wolf circles

464
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: these days because really just alpha the alpha male would

465
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: be the dad, the help of femails, the mom, and

466
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: they are the bosses because that's how it goes parent

467
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: that's how it should go, right. So, and then they

468
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: have their offspring once a year every year and they

469
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: will make up the rest of the pack. Sometimes a

470
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: wolf that's not related will join the pack um. But

471
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: they're dynamic x you have, just like with our families

472
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: you know, they kind of leave the nest at some

473
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: point and start their own families. So UM, so that's

474
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: why the numbers are a bit you know, it changes.

475
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: And also had a lot of babies that the we

476
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: have we actually we're hoping to have some more babies

477
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: this spring. Um. But last spring we had um one

478
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: letter born Mexican Mexican gray wolves. How many this letter

479
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: was five healthy and one of them actually was released

480
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: into the wild, which is very exciting and um, but

481
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: the largest litter repent at the Wolf center was a

482
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: litter of nine and nine yeah, nine and um. We

483
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: decided that we wanted to name it um name each

484
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: member after really important UM players on the Yankees and uh,

485
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: and we thought, oh, how fun because I make up

486
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: baseball team and so we're trying to do that. And

487
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: then we just I had last minute and I hope

488
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: you have an errand well we were. There was a

489
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: lot of debate, robust ongoing debate about foo should these

490
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: Yankees be and and actually we decided on second thought,

491
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: we'll name them after female conservationists, because of course Yankees

492
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: female conservationists. UM. But it worked out for the best

493
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: because the boys from that letter were actually transferred to

494
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: a different facility in Boston, And if they were named

495
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: after the Yankees, it would have been nobody would have liked.

496
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: So female conservationists one out. So wolves, what what do

497
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: wolves in the wild each? What are they looking for? Yeah?

498
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: So wolves? Um, their menu will vary depending on where

499
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: they live, Like in Yellowstone, they're going to be hunting

500
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: animals like elk um dear bison some of sometimes it's

501
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: a little bit harder for them. But there's one pack

502
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: called the Molly's Pack for years that was their expertise,

503
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: was hunting bison effectively. Um. They'll also eat smallers like

504
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: beaver hair. You know, really it depends. It's going to

505
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: take the whole family group though, in order to really

506
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: chase down a successfully hunted animal like an elk or

507
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: a bison. Um, those other animals would be more of

508
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: like a single snack. What's the ideal habitat for the

509
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: gray wolf? Is it? I mean, do they seem to

510
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: be rather adaptable? They are very adaptable. Um, And ideal

511
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: habitat is a habitat that has prey. Honestly, that's going

512
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: to be the biggest thing. Are they looking for possums

513
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: and skunks and things like that too. Yeah, you know,

514
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: like even um like the Arctic the Arctic gray wolf.

515
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: Let's say, um, while they're they're really large, you know, um,

516
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: caribou migrations, and there's the musk ox, but otherwise it's

517
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: pretty barren UM. So they're gonna be hunting things like

518
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: Lenning's and Arctic fox. UM. Really the smaller prey than

519
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: those are the ones where they won't rely on the

520
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: rest of the family members necessarily. But because food is

521
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: a bit more scarce, UM, they have a large your

522
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: territory size because they have to roam farther distances justifine food. UM,

523
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: they tend to have smaller litters as well. So the

524
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: question is what's the difference between being endangered and being threatened.

525
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: Is there a distinct difference? Yeah, I would say, you know,

526
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: endangered when when something when a species is designated as

527
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: an endangered species, they get the maximum protections, right, can't

528
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: hunt them like you have to kind of preserve their habitat,

529
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and and endangered means well they're at risk of going extinct.

530
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: Threatens It is kind of like the next level, which

531
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: is like yo, you think they're going to become endangered.

532
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: So by the time they're endangered is really dire. Yeah,

533
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 1: so they're now endangered. Yeah, seriously, Yeah they are. I mean,

534
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: if you look at what's happening with these hunts and

535
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: all the barbaric methods that are being used, and frankly,

536
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: like you know, there are groups and states they're paying

537
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: bound teams, they are incentivizing hunters to go out and

538
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: cobols they're gonna pay in Idaho they'll pay between five

539
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: hundred dollars per wolf. And there's no i mean berries everywhere,

540
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: but like there's not a buch limitation in terms of

541
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: what what hunters can go out. They could go get

542
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: twenty wolves and it's really it's really slipped into the

543
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: dark ages and and no better. I mean, we used

544
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: to have likely more than a quarter of a million

545
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: wolves living coast to coast no longer. And really it

546
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: was through you know, these these predator eradication programs UM

547
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: that used poison and bounties and trapping and snares, UM

548
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: that brought them down to just a few isolated, you know,

549
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: almost family groups, mostly in the Great Lakes area and

550
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: they were gone everywhere else. UM. So then you know,

551
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: with UM, the Endangered Species Act being passed in ninety three. Um,

552
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: we stopped killing wolves and we started to protect wolves.

553
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: And at the height, how many wolves have we counted?

554
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if we're if there's six thousand, now, what

555
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: was the most we ever counted? Um, well they don't

556
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: they weren't counting, but they're estimating at least a quarter

557
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: of a million. Really, and that's when was that. That

558
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: was really before we colonized and started these massive programs

559
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: to just get rid of most of the predators. Yeah,

560
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: it's just like you know, late eighteen hundreds, I would say,

561
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: So it was a long time ago when the bison

562
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: were running free. It's a lot always different, and there

563
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: were millions of bison and now they've been reduced to

564
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: such a pitiful number. Two. No, it's true, it's um.

565
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: So the Endangered Species list that was what year were

566
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: they removed from it? So they were removed from it.

567
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: It's gone back and forth, kind of a legal battle.

568
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: But they were initially removed like in two thousand and eleven,

569
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: and it's kind of gone back and forth in different

570
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: places for a little while now. Um. But while it

571
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: has gone back and forth, it's been a little bit confusing. UM.

572
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: But we've seen what happens when there is wolf hunting,

573
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: and then we've seen when wolves are afforded protections. Really

574
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: a lot of those populations stabilize, which really takes away,

575
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, some of the reasons they're the justifications, um

576
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: for these hunts in the first place. Is there legal

577
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: hunting anywhere in the United States? Where um, legal hunting

578
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: right now is in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana. And that's

579
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: where again, like Samantha said, they're using some of these

580
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: you know bounties. You know, bounties aren't legal. I mean,

581
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: essentially we we kind of got over bounties. You know,

582
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: we celebrated the Endangered Species Act. It's fifty year anniversary

583
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: is next year. I mean, it's one of the most

584
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: uh successful environmental reinstated. I don't know, I don't know.

585
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: I think it's unfair. I think it's very unfairly. But

586
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: wolves have become sort of an emblem of this political

587
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: out all between environmentalists and you know, we don't want

588
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: to be told what to do at the state level.

589
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: And the problem is it really is not the wolves

590
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: are caught in the middle. It's not about the science

591
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: or the data behind it, because all of a sudden

592
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of emotion um being pulled into

593
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: this issue. Where yet you look at the data, you

594
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: look at how many cattle are being killed by wolves.

595
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: You've got Montana, the state of Montana is being overrun

596
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: by elk right now, to the point where it's a

597
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: big problem that everyone knows about. You have a natural

598
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: solution here, and yet you're out there killing your natural solution.

599
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: At the same time this endangered Species list, who else

600
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: is on it? Oh gosh, lots of critters? Um, Yeah,

601
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: so it depends. You know. Again, different parts of the

602
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: country almost has different kinds of protection. But in terms

603
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: of predators, you have the grizzly bear that's currently still

604
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: being protected. Um, those different kinds of wolves, lots of birds, birds,

605
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: and that that the Endangered Species Act is really responsible

606
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: for one of the greatest conservation success stories, the emblem

607
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: of the United States. We had our first sighting here

608
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: at the farm last week. We got a picture of

609
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: a bold eagle circling the whole farm, looking looking around.

610
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: It was so exciting because I am not in the

611
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: twenty years I've been here seeing an eagle. Have you

612
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: seen one here? I haven't, but I live over in

613
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: Washington and they're like a pest out there. They're gorgeous,

614
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: they are, you know, one of the things they actually

615
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: still have some protections under what's called the Migratory Bird

616
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Protection Act. All of a sudden, you see wolves they're

617
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: dealists that they have no protection. So, you know, I

618
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: don't know if there's like a link between those two,

619
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: but certainly something worth considering. Going from zero to do

620
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: both of you go to Washington and make your case.

621
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: Do you actually go in front of of the Congress

622
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 1: or the people that the committees in charge of this

623
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: this act. A key part of the campaign is really

624
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,959
Speaker 1: talking too elected officials, and we do have have some

625
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: some of the members of our team are lobbyists who

626
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: are going and doing that and making it clear why

627
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: why this is important. And frankly, like I think, if

628
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: you take a step back, you look at the data,

629
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: healthy ecosystems are something we can all get behind. So

630
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: what has been the public response to your campaign for

631
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: realist wolves. Oh, it's been awesome, it's been great. It's

632
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: it's um so awesome. And I think the thing is,

633
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: it's like most people just don't know how do you

634
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: break through and talk to people. We've done a couple

635
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: of really cool things. We did this collaboration with Jim Bacher,

636
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: who's this pothole mosaic artists, so he put in these potholes.

637
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: That's a realist in d C. We put up billboards.

638
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: We collaborated with Jason Momoa and Sender Films on a

639
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: public service spot. Um. All of these things are you know,

640
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: incremental grains of sand that are building up into a

641
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: mountain of change. And so it's been really great. But

642
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: I would say probably every day I talked to someone,

643
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: whether it's at work or a friend, they're like, they

644
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: didn't know about this issue. To the wolves, like the

645
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: cold weather, they love the cold yes, And do they

646
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: have dens? Do they go into den's at night? They do?

647
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: And you know, we're tear. I would hate to be

648
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: a wolf with the wolf setter sometimes just because we

649
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: have webcams everywhere, So we have webcams and their enclosures

650
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: and also in their dens. So unbeknownst to the wolves,

651
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: we have an unlimited uh number of like a global

652
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: audience basically sneaking into their dens at night to watch.

653
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: How do how do we access that um at our

654
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: website as just and why wolf dot org. But yeah,

655
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: I encourage I wanted to go check out the wolves.

656
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: Webcams are so cool. Yeah, so that's that's important. I mean,

657
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: you can watch so many animals by webcam, and it

658
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: is extraordinary that we can. We can be nosy in

659
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: the best possible way. We are now you know we

660
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: are nosy. Um. So, wolves were some of the first

661
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: animals shield by the Natured Species Act and the decision, well,

662
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: we we've discussed this have been politically charged ever since.

663
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: And and how do you think, how do you really

664
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: think we can change this? We need a president that cares,

665
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, voice, a voice that cares and is outspoken

666
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: and who's ready to be brave about an issue that

667
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: is is surprisingly difficult. And I think we've been surprised

668
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: at how difficult it has been to push this administration,

669
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: which generally is very science driven, until they can actually

670
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: come up with a plan to meet in the middle

671
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: and figure out how do we live with wolves? They

672
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: need protections and the administration needs to recognize that and

673
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: restore them. Well, I really think that you have to

674
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: go out to Montana, to the Yellowstone Ranch and talk

675
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: to Kevin and his producers, and and uh and make it,

676
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: make it even a bigger subject on such a program

677
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: like that, and get and get get some more programs

678
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: about wolves. Because as as you say, they have been,

679
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: they have been made menaces, they have been made evil,

680
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: they have been miscast. Miscast is the best word. They've

681
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: been miscast and in American history. And um, and I think, uh,

682
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: the voice, your voices have to be heard bigger and

683
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger. Well, we have some very exciting ideas

684
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: as much as you want to lean in with us here,

685
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: and um, I mean, this is just an incredible opportunity

686
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: to do that. Thank you very much for educating us

687
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: on such an important topic and these very very beautiful creatures.

688
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: To find out more. Again, remember everyone, you can save

689
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: the wolves by visiting Realist r E. L I S T.

690
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: Wolves dot org and use the hashtag realist wolves. And

691
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: to learn more about wolves in general, visit New York,

692
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: n Y wolf dot org. Those are important addresses for

693
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: you to know. I have been instructed that before we're

694
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: done here that Maggie should teach Martha how to howl

695
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,479
Speaker 1: like a wolf. Oh you can you have? Well really

696
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: and Maggie's name is Maggie yes, which is so weird,

697
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: but my name is My name is Stuart art on

698
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: the artists of Stuart O Good, Okay, blow out the mic, Maggie,

699
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: don't get scared everybody because oh pretty legit