1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Do you think people have to go through pain to 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: be able to connect deeper to themselves and to other people. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 2: I think pain wakes us up to what's in front 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: of us today. 5 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: I'm joyed by adding Michelle She's a poet, author and 6 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: now a fantasy novelist. In this episode, we dive into 7 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: a creative journey and my storytelling can be one of 8 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: the most profound tools for healing and retaming your voice. 9 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: We all, especially now, as like walking human personal brands. 10 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: We need a place where all the ugly gets to 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: belong without judgment, and a journal is such a great 12 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: way of doing that. The reason we love movies like 13 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: Harry Potter or Lot of the Rings or any hero's 14 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: journey is because all of those archetypes exist within us. 15 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: We all have the villain insight and the hero and 16 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: the fall and the wise stage. 17 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: For people who are disconnected from their emotions or they've 18 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: created a hard heart because of anything that they've been through, 19 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: what are some of the things that one can do 20 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into their emotions. 21 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm Radi Dvlukiah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry, 22 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space 23 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: for raw and field of conversations that celebrate vulnerability and 24 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: allow you to tune in to learn, connect and find 25 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: comfort together. Oh my gosh, Alie, thank you for being here. 26 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: Thank you. 27 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: I am so happy to speak to you. I feel 28 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: like I've known you for such a long time, but 29 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: we've never actually sat down properly to have a conversation. 30 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: So I feel like this is a great way for 31 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: us to do that. I got to binge so much 32 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: of your stuff as I've been trying to like research 33 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: and understand how incredible you are. And it has been 34 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: such a great journey, not just to observe you, but 35 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: also for myself, Like so much of what you write 36 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: about and speak about, I feel like you you make 37 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: people feel so understood and so seen just by the 38 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: words that you use. So first of all, thank you, 39 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: thank you. And it is such a gift that you 40 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: have that you're sharing with everyone. So you have three books? 41 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: Is it out? 42 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: Four? 43 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: Four? 44 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So you have three poetry books and 45 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: then you've just written a novel, right, a fantasy novel. Yes, 46 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: let's start from the beginning. I need to know how 47 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: you got into poetry, and then what brought you to 48 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: writing a fantasy novel. 49 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: I got into poetry because I had really bad social 50 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: anxiety as a kid, so I used to write the 51 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: kids in my class letters instead of speak to them. 52 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: No way. Yeah, and then I started writing little poems, 53 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: and I don't know, it just kind of became a 54 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: career by accident. But I was writing poetry from like 55 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: nine years old. 56 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you still have some of them. 57 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: I have all my old journals from the time I 58 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: was like five, used the whole library shelf of them. 59 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: And was generally at that age. Was that something you 60 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: got recommended or was that something you just took You 61 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: just felt the urge and the desire to put pen 62 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: to paper. 63 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: My mom gave it to me, I think because she 64 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: just knew somehow that it would help me. It was 65 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: one of the only things that unwound those anxious notts 66 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: inside of me. 67 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: I can so relate. I feel like when I I've gotten 68 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: into this habit because I used to be this person 69 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: who whenever someone would upset me, or whenever i'd go 70 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: through something with a friend or whether it was in 71 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: a relationship, I would constantly want to tell them how 72 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: much they've hurt me. Like my natural instinct would be 73 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: to blurt out, in whatever words came out of my mouth, 74 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: saying you did this, and you did this, and you 75 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: should feel bad because of this. And as years went on, 76 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: it made me realize how little that helped compared to 77 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: having a moment to myself or days to myself where 78 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm processing it and writing it out. And so I 79 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: learned over time that you don't often have to like 80 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: send that message to someone. You don't have to like 81 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: send the message. You don't have to let them know 82 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: they've hurt you, But by releasing it onto pen to paper, 83 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: it actually can relieve so much of what you're feeling. 84 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: So I can so relate to that because I think 85 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: that that's a big thing that people miss. You always 86 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: think that you have to express it to someone, but 87 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: sometimes you just need to express it. 88 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: That's most of what it is. And I think we all, 89 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: especially now, as like walking human personal brands, we need 90 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: a place where all the ugly gets to belong without judgment, 91 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: and a journal is such a great way of doing that. 92 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: And so as writing where you can really use all 93 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: of those darker emotions and thoughts and feelings, so that way, 94 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: you're not acting from that place. 95 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: Do you find it easy to get to a point 96 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: where you aren't acting even when you know it's just you? 97 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: Because I find when I first started journaling, and I did, 98 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: it started at a much later age than you did, 99 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: but I was noticing myself hiding myself from myself. Does 100 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: that make sense? Like I will be writing and writing 101 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: and writing, and it would almost become like a piece 102 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: that I was going to be submitting versus like actually 103 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: digging in and finding a way to truly see myself 104 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: and truly see what I'm thinking. So for anybody who's 105 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: starting out with journaling or starting out trying to understand 106 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: their emotions, how can you get past that surface level? Like? 107 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: What are the tools or techniques one can use to 108 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: stop having that front layer or surface like face that 109 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: you put on. 110 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 2: I think the desire to be a good person can 111 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: sometimes stop us from being a whole person. And so 112 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: I would say to lean into the ugly because I 113 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: can only control the fact that I know I can be. 114 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: Can I swear on here? 115 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? 116 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: I know I can be a judgmental asshole, And that's 117 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: how I control it, because I know that's there, and 118 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: I've admitted it to myself, and so I can only 119 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: control the behaviors that I admit to myself. I call 120 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: like the shadow a little monster, and I turn it 121 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: into a little character and I'm like, just my little 122 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: monster acting Yeah, it's fine, but I know it's there. 123 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 124 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times when we're journaling, 125 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: we want to be flowery and be like, oh no, 126 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: it was just this, and I learned so much in this. 127 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: But if you give just a very personal space to 128 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: yourself to be a whole person, then you're not walking 129 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: around in the world unconsciously letting those behaviors rule you 130 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: so much. 131 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking about that this weekend quite a lot, actually, 132 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: because I actually get over things quite easily, like if 133 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: someone's upset me or hurt me, or if I've gone 134 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 1: through something with someone, I usually get over that very fast. 135 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: But I was noticing that there was certain people were 136 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: set and things that repeating in my head over and 137 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: over again. And I wasn't used to that because I 138 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm someone who lets go of everything, 139 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: and so I'm fine, but I was noticing that person 140 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: or those people kept coming up in my mind as 141 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: something that every time I would hear their name, it 142 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: would create like a negative energy or negative emotion in 143 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: my body or in my mind. And I was speaking 144 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: to Jane, I was like, I actually don't know why 145 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: I feel that way about those people. And I came 146 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: to the realization that I really had to break down 147 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: my insecurities the things I feel about myself that actually 148 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: ended up being a reflection of why I don't like 149 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: them or why they trigger me so deeply. And I 150 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: don't think i'd allowed myself to because I was used 151 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: to be like, it was them, it's their it's what 152 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: they do, it's their personality, They're what triggered me. But 153 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: you can only be triggered by someone because you've got 154 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: that trigger in you, and like, it takes so long 155 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: to get to that realization. But now that I've realized that, 156 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, so now I need to dig 157 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: deeper and figure out why do those things about them 158 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: really upset me? And what is it about myself that 159 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: I need to change to be able to not have 160 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: those things trigger me externally? But how would you recommend 161 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: people identify their triggers and then start to process them 162 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: through writing or through any other tools that you've developed. 163 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: I think the best writing comes from a strong emotional charge. 164 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: And the reason we love movies like Harry Potter or 165 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings or any hero's journey is because 166 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: all of those archetypes exist within us. We all have 167 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: the villain insight and the hero and the fool and 168 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: the wise stage. And so if I'm looking at someone 169 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: and I'm villainizing them, that's in me too. 170 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: Any archetypes. Yes, I need you to tell me more 171 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: about archetypes because I think I saw you speak on 172 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: them before. Could you explain them, where they've come from 173 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: and how they're useful. 174 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the hero's journey comes from Joseph Campbell, and it's 175 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: just the writing structure that pretty much any movie you 176 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: can think of, whether it's a memoir like Eat, Pray, 177 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: Love or something like Harry Potter, all of it uses 178 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: the hero's journey. And so there's the hero who starts 179 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: out in an ordinary world and then there's an inciting 180 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: incident and they go into an extraordinary adventure that transforms them, 181 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: and along the way they meet the sage that would 182 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: be like yannd Off for Dumbledore, and they have the 183 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: friends and they have the full like Rafiki and the 184 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: Lion King, or the villain like Voldemort. But Carl Jung, 185 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: the psychologists believe that we resonate with it because all 186 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: of those archetypes exist within our own psyche. 187 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so true. And so you're saying we all 188 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: have all of them. But do we display different versions 189 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: in different times of our life or are you predominantly 190 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: one in most of the time. 191 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: I like archetypes because it's not set in stone. It's 192 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: not like astrology or the enneagram or human design. It's 193 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: just a natural expression of what you're trying to integrate 194 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: within your own psyche at the time. So if I'm 195 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: trying to integrate the Full, maybe I'm in a very 196 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: serious sage like position where I'm projecting wisdom and a 197 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: centeredness and I need to lighten up and I need 198 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 2: to be willing to be seen the fool and that 199 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: would be the medicine there. Or if I'm the ruler, 200 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: maybe I'm in a stage of really serving my people 201 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: and stepping up as a leader. You know, life is 202 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: such a fluid experience, and recognizing what archetype is trying 203 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: to integrate is really helpful. 204 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. I feel like you might be 205 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: the ruler with your children, but then maybe you have 206 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: to become one of the other ones when you're at 207 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: work or with your partner. So I imagine you can go 208 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: through different archetypes throughout the day, in different parts of 209 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: your day, if not in different months or years. 210 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, every person pulls out a different part of you. 211 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: Like with Alexis, I often become the magician, which is 212 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: like the healer, and she's the ruler, which is the leader. 213 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: And so the two of us understand through those archetypes 214 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: how to better relate to each other in a compassionate 215 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: way versus that's not who I am with, like a 216 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: romantic partner or a different friend. 217 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: How was it writing the fantasy novel as opposed to 218 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: doing poetry. Did you feel like there was a shift 219 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: in the way that you you had to write in 220 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: your imagination or did they kind of flow one flow 221 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: into the other. 222 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: It didn't flow. It was like Mount Everest. Really, I 223 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: could not see the top and I didn't even know 224 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: I was doing it. I just knew it was very 225 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: important that I do it. And that's so often the 226 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: case with artists is you don't know what the result 227 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: is going to be, but at least for the sake 228 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: of how it will change you as a person, it 229 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: is so worth it. 230 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: And what is the fantasy novel about? I know that 231 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: it's Legends of Lemuria. Yeah, they say, right, yeah, is 232 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: it right? 233 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: It's this girl who is essentially living in a future 234 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: dystopia and she's playing the world's most addictive and illegal 235 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: virtual reality game in an underground speakeasy cool and she 236 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: discovers a map when she wins the game that leads 237 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: to a real fantasy world with dragons and two princes 238 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: who try to win her heart. But it blends all 239 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: the fantastical elements that I love with the wisdom of 240 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: the self help world. But for me, I struggle to 241 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: digest information without a story attached to it. 242 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: So interesting. In my culture, we follow or study the Vaders. 243 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: It's where most of our spiritual knowledge comes from. And 244 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: all the vaders are told in stories. They're all told 245 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: like the lessons that are taught are all told through 246 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: kings that have done certain things or people in different 247 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: positions in their life. But there's always the lesson or 248 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: what we're supposed to be learning from. It all comes 249 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: through storytelling. And I've always found that so true. It's 250 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: always my mum, even when she would want to tell 251 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: teach me a lesson, she'd like make up someone to 252 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: be like, well, I heard that this person did this once, 253 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: and like trying to get me not to do something 254 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: through telling a story of somebody else who's experienced it 255 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: or been through it. And so yeah, sometimes you have 256 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: to either hear it, experience it, or see it for 257 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: yourself to really take on the lesson that you're supposed 258 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: to be learning. I feel like there's just so many 259 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: different types of people and we all learn in different ways. 260 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but we get to borrow each other's perspectives 261 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: through storytelling and live a thousand lives in one I 262 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: get to write Dragons, and I get to go to Hogwarts, 263 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: and I get to you know, be some wise stage 264 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: that's been meditating for five thousand years, and it's almost 265 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: like a cheat code. Hmm. 266 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true. I was mentioning before that your 267 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: poetry feels like you understand people so deeply, You understand 268 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: emotions so deeply for people who are disconnected from their 269 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: emotions or have had to put up, had to put 270 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: up like what's the word for them, like wolves, or 271 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: they've created a hard heart because of anything that they've 272 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: been through. What are some of the things that one 273 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: can do to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into 274 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: their emotions. Hmm. 275 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: I think if you can look at it through the 276 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: lens of every emotion is like a different instrument and 277 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: a symphony. You know, maybe the violin is your grief 278 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: and the piano is your joy, and looking at it 279 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: that way so that they all weigh equally on a scale, 280 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: because I think so often we're chasing happiness and it's 281 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: the act of chasing that actually robs us of contentment. 282 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: And so I think if you can really embrace the 283 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: human experience and like I said, focus on being a 284 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: whole person, yeah versus this ideal, it makes life a 285 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: lot more bearable. 286 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: And you created a journal, would you say that when 287 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: you journal yourself, do you use a lot of prompts 288 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: or do you find you just freewrite from whatever comes 289 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: to your mind? Have you found one or the other 290 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: more beneficial? 291 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: I actually now when I'm journaling, try to tell the 292 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: story of my day as though it's a hero's journey. 293 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. I've never had that done before. 294 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: It's like my practice ground. Even if it's mundane and 295 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: I went to the grocery store, I still want to 296 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: make sure I captured what it smelled like, what it 297 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: tasted like, how I physically felt, because it's the practice 298 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: of paying attention. Yeah. 299 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And do you find that you like, how do 300 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: you go from being somebody who is so so distanced 301 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: from their own feelings to creating more meaningful relationship with 302 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: other people? Because I find there's one thing about connecting 303 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: to yourself, but then a whole other story is connecting 304 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: to other people. And so have you found practices of 305 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: becoming more vulnerable or to opening your heart out to 306 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: somebody else, whether it's in relationships or family, friends or partners, 307 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: anything that can help you be more vulnerable or create 308 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: a better and more meaningful relationship with someone. 309 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I usually find. For me, I just need the 310 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: ten seconds of courage to start, because starting is the 311 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: most terrifying part where I feel like I'm going to die. 312 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: It's like an ice bath when you first get in 313 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: and you're like, nope, I'm so sorry, surely not. And 314 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: then after a minute you're like, you know what, I 315 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: didn't die I can do this, and so if I 316 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: want to create a moment of vulnerability, I have to 317 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: be the one to initiate that and have the ten 318 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: seconds of courage. Even if it is coming out terribly 319 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: and I have to face the other direction to say it, 320 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: I still have to say it. Because one thing I've 321 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: realized is people tend to tell me that I'm very composed, 322 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: mysterious yeah, And I think that's hard to relate to 323 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: because it's like a one sided mirror where I'm seeing 324 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: other people and they're not seeing me right, and therefore 325 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: we can't connect. And so I have to be the 326 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: one to initiate showing my humanity. 327 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: Yes, I noticed that when I went through a lot 328 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: of social anxiety. I was actually just thinking about this 329 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: this morning. One thing I noticed I had to do 330 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: when I went into situations where I was feeling really anxious. 331 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: So whether it was parties or events, I would have 332 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: to tell somebody there that I was anxious, yeah, like 333 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: just starting off a conversation with I'm actually really nervous 334 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: to be here, and that would make all the difference 335 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: because normally that other person is probably anxious too, and 336 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I can relate or they'll be like, 337 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: don't worry, stick with me the whole night. We're gonna 338 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: be fine. But that moment of sharing your heart allows 339 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: someone else to open up theirs. And You're right, I 340 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: think it ends up being this beautiful cycle of if 341 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: you can take that one little step, it was just 342 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: creates more meaningful conversations, Like I think I heard you speak, 343 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: but small talk I can't remember. We're on like another 344 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: episode or another podcast that you did. And I think 345 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: a big part of connection that we lack when we 346 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: go up to these events or go out to places 347 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: is you don't feel like you've actually had an exchange. 348 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: You feel like you've had words that have come out 349 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: of your mouth, but have you had a heart exchange? 350 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: Do you are use someone who struggles with small talk? 351 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: And how have you managed to change that dynamic when 352 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: you go into places and talk to people. 353 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: I think my sense of humor is like my only 354 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: way of surviving. And I see you do this too, 355 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: when you walk in a room, when you start cracking jokes, 356 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's the only way to do it 357 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: is to just tell the truth in disguise of a joke. 358 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: But I think in la and just Western culture especially. 359 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: We're all walking bios with resumes ready in our conversation, 360 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: and anything that can bring even a moment of humanity 361 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: is worth it and makes all the difference. 362 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, do you you know they say most people 363 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: who artists end up having a lot of pain to 364 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: create beauty from it. Do you think people have to 365 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: go through pain to be able to connect deeper to 366 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: themselves and to other people? And what was your journey 367 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: of the pain that you've been through to create the 368 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: beautiful words that you now have. 369 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: I think pain wakes us up to what's in front 370 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: of us, and it is the easiest way to shatter 371 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: the glass wall that's around your heart. I think if 372 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: you stay there, it becomes very dangerous. And that's the 373 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: whole club twenty seven of like artists that have killed 374 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 2: themselves at twenty seven. It's why there's so many tortured 375 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: artists out there, because you create that association. But I 376 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: don't think it has to come from there. You can 377 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: write about joy with as much sincerity as you do grief. 378 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 2: You don't have to live a tortured life to be 379 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: inspired by it. You just have to pay attention. 380 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: That is so beautiful. Yeah, I think we're so used 381 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: to hearing people you feel a lot more emotion these 382 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: days when you see someone's pain. But how beautiful if 383 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: you could feel that emotion when you see someone's joy. 384 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: There's actually this word in Sanskrit called moodiaita. I actually 385 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: have a tattooed on me. But because in the English 386 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: language there's not really a word for feeling someone else's joy, 387 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: deeply feeling someone else's joy, And in Sanskrit, the word 388 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: mudata means to feel someone else's joy intensely and deeply. 389 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: And I was like, that is so beautiful. I think 390 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: we're so used to being okay with feeling other people's pain, 391 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: but when it comes to joy, there's often this feeling 392 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: of jealousy or not feeling content in yourself, which then 393 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: makes you not unable to feel content with someone else's contentness. 394 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: And what kind of journey when you're trying to go 395 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: through negative emotions and create turn them into positive ones, 396 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: have you found there's been a good tool or mechanism 397 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: to be able to do that, or what practices do 398 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: you have in place for yourself, like on a day 399 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: to day basis to turn these shadow emotions into positive ones. 400 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: I think I do that through art. If I can 401 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: write a poem about it, I can tell a story 402 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: about it. The pain becomes beauty. Yeah, and so it's 403 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: not that the pain becomes happiness, but it becomes beauty. 404 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: And that is all I'm really trying to offer. 405 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have a What we all worry is 406 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: is your community, right, yeah? How long has that been 407 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: going on? 408 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 2: Fall like four and a half years. 409 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And it's just the whole community of women. 410 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: Just women telling their stories every week. 411 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: And what have you found that women in the your 412 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: community or I guess it's a good capture of the 413 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: largest society of women. One of the things that you 414 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: find women struggle with the most within the. 415 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: Community feeling like they're too much, you know, feeling like 416 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 2: they're too intense or their emotions are too much. I 417 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 2: think every woman, I know, there's something inside of us 418 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: that feels like we're just teetering on the edge of madness. 419 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: We even call it crazy so many times that we're like, 420 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 2: surely this is the day that I finally lose it. Yeah, 421 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: when in reality, you know, no one would ever say 422 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 2: that about a volcano exploding or a tornado or lightning strike. Yeah, 423 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: they would just say that's nature. That's the beauty and 424 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: the power of nature, and it is equal parts beauty 425 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: and terror. And I think a woman is the closest 426 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: thing to that. 427 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: Do you think that a lot of it comes from 428 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: this constant battle of the masculine and feminine energy? And 429 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: how I feel like a lot of men don't realize 430 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: that we all have both in us, and some women 431 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: don't even realize that we have both masculine and feminine 432 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: in us. And how does one balance those energies when 433 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,959 Speaker 1: the world predominantly functions in a masculine energy. 434 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: You know, I think for me, at least, it feels 435 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: a little like archetypes, where I try to just pay 436 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: attention to what the moment is asking of me. Like, 437 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: if I'm doing taxes, it probably need some more masculine 438 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 2: energy to force myself to sit there and do it. Yeah, 439 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: Versus if I'm writing a poem, I probably need the 440 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: feminine fluidity. And I was talking with my best friend 441 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: the other day and he said, we want one without 442 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 2: the other. We want a man who's confident without being bulldozed. 443 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: We want a woman who's soft and tender, without the 444 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 2: emotional world, when in reality, every energy has its own 445 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 2: double edged sword. And I guess that's my main message 446 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 2: I try to get across is in the embracing the both. 447 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think in one of your I don't 448 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: know where ray is that, I've heard you say this, 449 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: but you have to find this strength it takes to 450 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: be soft. Could you expand on that a little bit 451 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: more and explain how a woman, if they feel like 452 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: they are in their masculine energy, how can they soften 453 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: and feel like that's okay? 454 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 2: I think softening can feel like life or death for us. 455 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: Sometimes you know those moments where you need to be 456 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: vulnerable and you need to say the thing, but your 457 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: heart is pounding and your palms are sweating, and you're like, 458 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to survive this one. 459 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: This might be the desk And then when you do it, 460 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: it oftentimes opens up the richest intimacy and connection. 461 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeap. 462 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: And so for me it's exposure therapy. 463 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: What is that? What is exposure therapy? 464 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: Same way of getting in anice bath when you don't 465 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: want to but you know it's good for you, or 466 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: doing breath work, anything that you resist there's so much 467 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: power on the other side of it, and for me 468 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,239 Speaker 2: exercising that vulnerable muscle when it's wise to, you know. 469 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: I think that's also another key, is not showing all 470 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: of yourself to everyone all the time, because I don't 471 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 2: think that's particularly safe. Yeah, so you have to utilize 472 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: discernment in that way. Yeah. 473 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: I like what you said about when it feels appropriate 474 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: to I think I changed the wording. But I think 475 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: sometimes we've gotten into a state of being so masculine 476 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: because we've been vulnerable to the wrong people who aren't 477 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: able to handle the other part of us. And so 478 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: it's like it's almost like a flower, like you're so delicate. 479 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: Especially when you are in that state it is. It 480 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: is a more sensitive state to be, and the feminine 481 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: energy is flowing and sensitive, and that is the nature 482 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: of it. But if you are exposing that to somebody 483 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,239 Speaker 1: who isn't ready to appreciate it, that's when I think 484 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: the walls can start going up and you then don't 485 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: feel comfortable sharing that with anybody else. 486 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it creates this belief of like, see, 487 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: I'm not safe, I've proved myself right, when in reality, 488 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: you know, every person's going to be able to hold 489 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 2: a different container. And I guess what I've been doing 490 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 2: recently is trusting my animal, my animal body of like, Okay, 491 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: I know within five minutes of meeting someone if I 492 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 2: feel safe with them. It's so instinctive. 493 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: It's so instinctive. I go through situations where I think 494 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: it and I'm like, no, I'm being silly, Like don't 495 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: don't listen to it. You're being so silly, that's not true. 496 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: And then three months down the line or six months 497 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: down the line, you're like, I should have listened to 498 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: my gut. I shouldn't listened to my gut. And I 499 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: think that comes down to a lot of alignment and 500 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: really tuning into what your you know, super soul, your 501 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: subconscious is telling you. But how do you think someone 502 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: can know whether they are one in alignment or two? 503 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: How do you know you're really being you? I know 504 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: it's a silly question, but I find sometimes I'm like, 505 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: is this me? Or is this a version of me 506 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: I think I should be or a version of me 507 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: that I'm putting out there because I want it to 508 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: be me. Like, have you had a feeling of where 509 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: you're like, this is me and my authentic self, And 510 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: what to you does that feel. 511 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: Like it feels really spacious and like there's room to 512 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: breathe if I can't really breathe and I feel like 513 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: a porcelain doll and I have my little cool jacket 514 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 2: on that I've zipped up and I can't, Like, you know, 515 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: there's just I'm rigid. I can't breathe, I can't be myself. 516 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: There's no permission to step outside and break character versus 517 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,239 Speaker 2: what I'm actually being myself. It feels like I have 518 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: all the space in the world. 519 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: And what did you as you've gone through life, and 520 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure so many different things. What was some of 521 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: the things you did to get to know yourself throughout 522 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: over the years. 523 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think my art has kept 524 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 2: me honest. I think writing and telling stories because it's 525 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 2: a constant, you know, digging for the truth. And so 526 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: I know I can feel it when I wrote a 527 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: poem and it's not the full, honest truth, yes, and 528 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: it forces me to go back and be like really, 529 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: So I think the way some people look at meditation 530 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 2: or spiritual practices, I look at my art as well, 531 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: and I find that to be my tother back to myself. 532 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: Do you find it hard sharing your poems because it's 533 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: so much of you? Or is it quite a freeing 534 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: process to like put that out there. 535 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if freeing would be the word it's 536 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 2: if it's really honest, it's terrifying, and I still feel 537 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 2: anxious sharing it. But I've done it enough times where 538 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 2: I just know I have a higher duty and honor 539 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: as an artist to tell the truth and share it. 540 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: Your spoken word? Where were you on stage where you 541 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: did a spoken word? You and Lexus together? 542 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 2: Oh, the poetry Lounge. 543 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: That was one of the most spectacular things I've ever 544 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: experienced watching online, Like the best use of my time 545 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: ever scrolling through social media was watching that. If anybody's listen, 546 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: you have to go check it out. But do you 547 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: generally just memorize your poems? Do you just have them 548 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: in your heart and ready to go. 549 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: I have to memorize them because if I memorize them, 550 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: then I'm not thinking about the performance aspect of it. 551 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: And my goal is to not perform. When I perform, 552 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: and if I'm looking at a thing, it takes away 553 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: ninety percent of my presence. 554 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: It's so true I've been doing a bit more speaking 555 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: on stages lately, and even if I know what I'm 556 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: going to say, there's this feeling of having it as 557 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: a crutch. But as soon as those cards are in 558 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: my hand, I can't help myself but look at them 559 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the time, and you're so as soon 560 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: as you let go of that, you come into yourself, 561 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: like you're not in your mind, you're in your heart. 562 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: But as soon as I look down at my cards 563 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: is back to it. You even say things differently my 564 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: vocal like chords completely change the way that I'm presenting 565 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: things completely change. It makes such a difference to like 566 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: not be held to the words that are on the paper. 567 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're meant to kind of react to life 568 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: and the world around you. I don't mean that in 569 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: a bad way, but like you know, you're in constant 570 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: dance and response with the moment in front of you 571 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 2: versus this like pre planned thing. And so for me, 572 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: if I'm willing to be in a free fall, that's 573 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 2: my favorite times of my performances or panels or whatever 574 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 2: it might be, as being in the free fall. 575 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: You and I know I've only seen you in Alexis together. 576 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: But I imagine you have such wonderful friendships because of the 577 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: kind of heart that you have. How have you navigated 578 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: female friendships? I think a lot of people struggle with that. 579 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: I've had friends come to LA and the reason they 580 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: wanted to leave is purely because they haven't been able 581 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: to create meaningful friendships. Could you share a little bit 582 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: about how you've created deep connections with people live along 583 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: periods of times and anybody who needs advice on creating friendships. 584 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: For me, it's been creating like a subculture within the 585 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 2: environment here, and the way I could best describe it 586 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: as people first, like I will put down my work 587 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: to go help a friend. I will let them stay 588 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 2: on my couch. I will go drop them off at 589 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: LAX and not tell them to uber. Like I will 590 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 2: go out of my way for the people that I 591 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 2: love because I look at my heart like this little kingdom, 592 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: and you know, the people in it are mine to 593 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: look after and take care of. And I think there's 594 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: this kind of odd thing happening right now. We have 595 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: to be independent and we don't need each other when 596 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 2: we're such social creatures. And imagine if we all tended 597 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: to each other that way, it would be a very 598 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: different world. So for me, I think just prioritizing it. 599 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: I think that the way that we have lack of 600 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: interaction in person is the probably the key reason why 601 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: we all have so much more anxiety these days because 602 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: I think back in the day, like I think about 603 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: it when my grandma was living in villages in Africa, 604 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: Let's say she constantly or even when she was a 605 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: child and she was living in India, she constantly had 606 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: She was saying that her doors would be wide open, 607 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: like her mom would be cooking and they'd be like, 608 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: you wouldn't even know who's walking through the door. The 609 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: neighbor's kids would come in, her friends would come in, 610 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: like they would be making enough food on a day 611 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: to day basis to feed whoever came through the door. 612 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: And it was just that natural where everyone's doors were 613 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: always open, they'd look after each other's children. It was 614 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: just full community living. That was just the norm there. 615 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: Now you think about it, it's like, not only do 616 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: we have front doors that are always closed, we have 617 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: gates in front of the front doors. And then if 618 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: we do see people, it's never a lot of the 619 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: time you see people on the streets. Sometimes people don't 620 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: even say hello to each other. And I think because 621 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: the norm of not being in connection with people, that 622 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: when you do end up connecting with people or seeing people, 623 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: that's why we feel anxious because it doesn't feel like 624 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: the norm anymore. So I always think, like, you have 625 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: to start just creating these conversations with people, even if 626 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: it's random people on the street. Let me just say hello, 627 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: or like, start making communication with people a normality versus 628 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: making an abnormality. And that's why we end up feeling 629 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,239 Speaker 1: so insecure in our friendships, in our relationships, or in 630 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: our communities and not building meaningful connections with them. 631 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I did a spoken word video recently and 632 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: I hired this older grandmother to play me in my nineties, 633 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 2: and she has Alzheimer's and so she would go in 634 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: and out of realizing where she was. But she does 635 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: these acting jobs and she wasn't concerned about it, Like 636 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: it wasn't sad. She'd be like where am I, and 637 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: I'd be like la, and she'd be like ah. And 638 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: I asked her about it, and she said, what are memories? 639 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: You're the people you love, not your memories. And I 640 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: found that to be so true. In the moments where 641 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: I really look at my life, I just feel proud 642 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: of how I love my people far more than anything 643 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: I've accomplished, and. 644 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that's all people really remember. Let's be honest. 645 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 2: That's it. 646 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: Has there been a topic that you found the hardest 647 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: to share in poetry in person when you're sharing your poetry? 648 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: Has there been other specific topics that end up being 649 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: triggering or difficult to share? 650 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: The most recent one is always the most difficult to 651 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: share because it's the closest to creation and to my 652 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 2: personal experience. 653 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: Do you have any that you could share with us? 654 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? 655 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: And I would love that if you don't mind, of course. Okay, amazing, Okay, 656 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: anything that you feel like? 657 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: Okay, I guess this is on topic. Should Should I 658 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 2: look at you? Should I look at I? Never know anywhere? Yeah, 659 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 2: I'll just I'll look at you. Okay, You're easy to 660 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 2: look at, a nice, comforting face. Every person we meet 661 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: we silently ask, will you love me? The question lies 662 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: behind every action, like a thousand scattered clues. We hope 663 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: someone will follow all the way into our heart. But 664 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: independence would convince us that we don't need each other 665 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: like love isn't as vital as the oxygen that we breathe. 666 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: So we play little games, asking a question and a joke, 667 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: we tell a piece of art, we create, the music 668 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: we listen to, and the success we try to create. 669 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 2: When did love become something we don't deserve? When did 670 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 2: fears start pulling our strings and warp love into a 671 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: contest of who cares the least? When did heartbreak become 672 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: a shameful thing instead of a badge of honor that 673 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 2: we tried for something? When did we start making a 674 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: bond of each other? A successful relationship doesn't mean forever, 675 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: it means transformation alone is the only time my heart 676 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: isn't onlane. But the only way to escape this life 677 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 2: and scape is never care at all. And so I 678 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: say to you, break my heart break. Its so wide 679 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: open that the whole world can fit between the pieces. 680 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 2: When did love become something we don't deserve? When did 681 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 2: love become a dirty word? 682 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that was amazing, Thank you, Oh my gosh. You. 683 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: I feel like you really go into a different zone 684 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: when you're sharing a poetry, Like it's so magical to 685 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: see you like compose yourself and then share from a 686 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: place of authenticity, like I don't feel any ego, no, 687 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: like trying to show up in a certain way. It's 688 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: like the words are just flowing through you. That's so beautiful. 689 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. 690 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 2: Thank you. I guess one of the images I get 691 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: is my best friend's dancer, and I asked him how 692 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: he just does improv out of nowhere, and he's like, Oh, 693 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: that's just the thing I've practiced holding the flood gates 694 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: open the most for and I love that image of 695 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: an artist dedicated to their craft. They just know how 696 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: to hold the walls open for something greater to come through. 697 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: So the greatest masters of their craft have the strongest 698 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: ability to push those gates even wider. 699 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: Open, to become a vessel. 700 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's channeling, and that kind of protects you 701 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: because you know, you don't have to be the greatest 702 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: poet on earth. You just have to hold the gates open, and. 703 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: You kind of realize it's not you. That's the biggest part. 704 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: I've found that the only way I can really let 705 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: go and do things I'm scared of, or do things 706 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: that really I don't think I would have ever thought 707 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: I could do, is by realizing that it's not just me, 708 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: like it's not it, or sometimes it's not even me, 709 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: it is just someone, is just God or the universe 710 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: working through you. I was actually I remember hearing this 711 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: once by one of my teachers, rather Notasami, about being 712 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: a bridge, Like you don't have to be the teacher, 713 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: you don't have to be the person who knows everything, 714 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: who has everything, but you can be the bridge for 715 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: another person to get them to another level and then 716 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: someone else will take over from there and they'll take 717 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: them across another bridge. And I love that. It's like 718 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: what your words are doing is taking someone to another 719 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: place where then maybe they'll meet someone or open their 720 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: heart to somebody else. It's like the ripple effect that 721 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: words have are so powerful. 722 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's all it is. It goes back 723 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 2: to looking after your own corner of the world. Like 724 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 2: do I think I'm saving the entire planet by writing 725 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 2: a poem? Probably not, but that's my bridge. Yeah. 726 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: I don't think you could save I don't think one 727 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: single thing can save the entire world in one go. Anyway. 728 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: I think it is, And that's why I think people 729 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: people get overwhelmed. They're like, how am I going to 730 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: help all these people? How can I help more people? 731 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: How can I help the most amount of people with 732 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: the the amount of effort? But actually it's the most 733 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: amount of effort with multiple people or the least sorry, 734 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: let me rephrase that. It's having small effort with multiple 735 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: people in those ways that can then create those effects 736 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: for them to go on to do that to other people. Yeah, 737 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: You've been so amazing, this has been so wonderful. I 738 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: really want to I want one. Could you share your books, 739 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: all four of them, what their names are and what 740 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: people can experience from them. So that's number one, so 741 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: to please share your books. 742 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 2: The first I have three poetry collections, so there's explosions 743 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: of a cosmic soul sharrow when I was nineteen, so 744 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: don't very much from it. Yep, wow, the Rose that 745 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: blooms in the night. And then the Words Left Unspoken 746 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: it's the most recent one I've done for poetry. And 747 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 2: then the fantasy book is Legends of Lemeria, and they're all. 748 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: Out, all out and what in your heart is like 749 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: what's your end goal? Like what's your desire with the 750 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: words that you speak? Where do you envision? Or like 751 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: what's your manifestation for yourself, for your future. I always 752 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: love hearing this, that's your dream, what's my dream? 753 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny. It doesn't really matter how much 754 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 2: like success happens. The things that fill me up are 755 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 2: the people I love, spending time in nature and writing stories. 756 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: And I'm really just down for whatever adventure those three 757 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 2: things take me on. And I like not knowing now. 758 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: Yes, I've every time someone asks me, like, what are 759 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: you thinking about doing in the next like year or two, 760 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: and I was like, honestly, I have no idea. I 761 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: know that I'll go with what happens, but I don't 762 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: know what. I don't have what. I don't know what's 763 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: planned in my future. Right now, all I can do 764 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: is take part in the present. 765 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: That's all we have. And I know the things I 766 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,479 Speaker 2: love and the ways I like to spend my time. 767 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 2: But I'm down for the mystery. 768 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: And can people come and watch you? Anywhere? Are you? 769 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: Do you mainly just do your spoken word in La 770 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: or do you travel? 771 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 2: I will be doing some shows in La soon, so 772 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 2: you'll find that on my Instagram. 773 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, oh my gosh, I'm gonna come watch you. 774 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: I have to you can't believe I haven't seen you 775 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: perform live yet. 776 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 2: Oh, we're gonna have like a pianist and a violinist. 777 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 2: It's gonna be so fun. 778 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm definitely coming. Thank you so much for this 779 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: opening conversation. I appreciate you so much, and I'm so 780 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: happy we've got to sit down to do this. 781 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me