WEBVTT - Part One: The Jordan Peterson Episode 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:10.240 M PAD casts. I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards. 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.560 It's a podcast about bad people, the worst in the world. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.520 In fact, you might say, as I say every week 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.439 when I opened this show, I'm Robert Evans. Did I 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.840 already say that? Probably, but there's no way to tell 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.040 because I can't go back and listen to the audio 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.240 I'm recording. It's being beamed live directly into your ears. 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.639 And my guest for this live audio experience that is 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.839 absolutely authentically live is Cody Johnstone. Hello there, thank you 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.680 for having me on this live podcast. M H. Now, Cody, 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.720 you know that we're live, which means we're not going 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:45.480 to be able to edit out any of your racist 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.000 rants against the Swiss. Okay, I mean that's why I 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.880 say them. I don't, I don't. I don't rant about 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.279 that so people cannot hear it. We have been protecting 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.400 Cody from getting Swiss canceled for years, but today we're 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.800 doing a live episode and bring it on. Bring it 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.880 on like the Swiss spring one just missed me with 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:13.840 the Swiss. Let me tell you. Okay, So, Cody, we 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.520 got a fun episode this week in a special episode 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:18.440 that I brought you on for because I know that 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.400 you're a huge fan of the guy we're going to 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:26.200 be talking about this week. Doctor fans doctor. He's a doctor, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:32.840 Jordan's B. Peterson. I love Jordan Peterson, who's a doctor. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:39.479 I respect. Um. I am very happy that you're doing 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.200 this episode and that I get to partake in it. Um. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.080 He's a He's one of my heroes. So yeah, you 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.960 love him. I love him. Uh. Watched a lot of 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.440 his speeches lectures. I guess you'd call him sermons. One 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.680 might call him. He might call them sermons. He might 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:00.840 call them sermons. We'll talk about that. Uh yeah, yeah, 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.760 I mean so you know, you know I joke about 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:08.200 starting a cult a lot on this show. Yeah, I do. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.720 I do. And there's jokes, the jokes to join your cult, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.920 they're not entirely jokes because I will probably start a 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:18.960 cult one It's kind of my retirement plan because I 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:20.519 don't really think four O one ks are going to 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.040 be useful that far into the future. But having a cult, 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.760 you know, you always make money what I call yeah, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.320 absolutely cash in on people. And that's why we're talking 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.040 about Jordan B. Peterson today, because he's not a cult 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.400 leader in the traditional sense, um, but he did create 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.399 a cult. Like it's a weird situation because he never 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.240 like had a bunch of people move on to land 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.880 and wound fight you know, federal law enforcement agencies. I 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.120 guess in Canada that would be the mount he's But 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.160 he still does have a cult, and they, if you like, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.200 go to their little spaces on Reddit and stuff, like, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.799 they are still they are completely devoted to this man 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.359 and his ideas, even though spoilers his life has got 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.720 completely I was gonna say, like, I didn't realize that 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.320 they was still going that strong, Like I don't because 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.960 because he disappeared, because because things are crumbling for him, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.440 because his life has been shattered by his own Yes, yes, yeah, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.640 but but yeah, I thought I might assume that there 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.760 there would be people that's still doing that, but I haven't. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.320 I haven't delved into the spaces in a while. Yeah, 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.320 So good for them, Good for them. Yeah, Yeah, it's fun, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.680 It's very fun. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.000 Jordan B. Peterson, um, and we're going to talk about fascism. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.040 Because while I'm not sure if I would call Dr 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.560 Jordan B. Peterson a fascist, I would say he's one 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.600 of the most insidious platformers of a specific strain of 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.120 ideology that feeds into the fascist movement in the United 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.520 States worldwide. It's fun. I would agree with that. I 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.720 I actually might go a little farther than you. Um 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.040 and yeah to label him. Um yeah. I feel like 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.160 we might just we might just give the whole story 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.920 and then people can apply their own labels to Jordan's 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.560 Alhazara Peterson. Before we talk about Dr Jordan B. Peterson, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.000 I'd like to talk about the Bolshevik evolution. Now, this 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.000 is a topic that that Dr Jordan B. Peterson is 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.520 particularly obsessed with. Multiple interviewers will note that his house 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.280 is absolutely filled with Soviet propaganda, much of it from 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.640 like the early eras of that regime, and when questioned 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.680 about it, he'll generally explain it as a sort of 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.400 know your enemy deal, like you know, you've gotta I 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.560 want to understand Marxists, and then he'll say something like 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.040 Marxism is resurgent in a haunted voice, which he said 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.360 to a journalist from the New York Times, I think 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.159 it was. He says it a lot. Yeah, Marxist. Yeah, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.040 imagine kermit. Uh if you if you took the brain 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.400 of Joe McCarthy and shoved it into Kermit the frog. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.760 That's more or less Dr Jordan B. Peterson. So back 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.000 in the late nineteen teens and twenties, there were a 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.880 lot of people who had the same concerns about Marxism 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.520 all across Western Europe. And this was a somewhat more 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.560 reasonable fear then, because Marxism was certainly resurgeon or at 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.440 least surging in that period. Um and Fascists in particular 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.440 were terribly paranoid about it. Were the only ones. Obviously 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.680 a lot of reasons to be concerned about the Soviet state, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.880 but there was some, shall we say, unreasonable paranoia about 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.359 everything from the left, from folks who were, you know, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.680 proto Nazis. Now a term began to percolate among these 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.640 people called in the term was Judeo Bolshevism, and this 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.200 was kind of the word for a conspiracy that Communism 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.280 was being spread around the world by Jewish people. They 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.839 were often compared to like a virus for communism that 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.960 introduces it into the blood stream of a healthy society. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.120 Um and that was kind of the strain of thought 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:35.960 that led to the Holocaust. At least one of them. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:37.839 You know, a lot of stuff like the Holocaust. Yeah, 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.920 but that was a big part of it. Um. Now, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.480 it is true that a number of like the first 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.640 Bolsheviks were Jewish, the guys who carried out, you know, 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.440 the big nineteen seventeen revolution in Russia. Um, but there 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:48.760 were also a lot of people who are not at 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.560 all Jewish who are involved in making the Soviet Union 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.960 be a thing, including Joseph Stalin. And also if you 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.640 actually look at the particularly the early history of the 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.760 Soviet Union, not a great place to be Jewish, Like 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.680 some real bad things happened to Jewish folks then so um, 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.960 of course Czaris Russia also a terrible place to be Jewish, 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.880 I would say that, yeah, anyway, I mean historically many many, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:18.440 many places. Yeah, basically everywhere actually, Like but if you 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.600 want to like people sometimes overstate how bad the USSR 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.159 was for Jewish people, to make it look like it 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.640 was like a specific thing with communism, whereas like the 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.520 reality is is under the czar and like the late 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.720 eighteen hundreds you had the Chelnitski massacre, who was the 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:36.560 largest massacre of Jewish people probably in history until the Holocaust. Anyway, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.760 fun the czar. So yeah, this conspiracy basically claimed that 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.800 all Jewish people everywhere were engaged in a covert plan 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.200 to destroy Christianity and Western civilization by bringing communism, and 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.880 like communism is an atheistic thing, like there's no not 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.440 supposed to be any religion under especially like the kind 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.840 of communism was being pushed in this period, and so 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.800 the idea was, like, this is the Jews trying to 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:05.000 kill Christianity communist. Yeah, I loved everybody loves saying that 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.280 the Jews are trying to destroy Christianity. Yea. As a rule, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.800 if you're saying the Jews and anything follows after that, 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:18.040 maybe yeah, yeah, maybe that's probably not yeah yeah. As 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.160 the Nazi movement picked up steam, Nazi writers and media 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.160 critics gained popularity in German culture, and they really like 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.840 they were kind of enraged by this. You know. Weimar Germany, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.040 as we've talked about, was a super progressive place, a 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.440 lot of like like unprecedented gains for LGBT people, um, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.640 kind of some of the first recognition of folks who 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.800 were like non binary, and also just like a crazy 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.800 amount of art and of course a decent amount of 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.920 that art was pornographic because like people, people be having fun. Uh, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.800 I mean, do you mean you mean degenerate Robert you 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.800 mean art? Yeah, that's what these Nazi critics would have said. 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.560 And and they went further. They claimed that like all 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.960 of this art, a lot of which was you know, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.600 queer in orientation, was somehow tied to communism and it 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.840 was part of a plot to weaken German culture to 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.080 allow a left wing takeover. If this seems familiar, it's 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.120 because you can hear the exact same thing if you 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:10.800 turn on like a third of YouTube. Oh yeah, So 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.119 the term cultural Bolshevism overtook judaeo Bolshevism in this period, 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.000 and it was kind of like the more educated, less 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.880 bigoted persons like cultural Bolshevism. They're trying to they're trying 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.480 to Bolshevize our nation by going through the arts and 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.200 stuff and like taking over kids minds with their evil 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.760 books and their dirty pictures and stuff like that. Just 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.400 because sorry, it's just like it's just art. Like what 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.240 do you like? What do you think art is? It's 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.360 like I don't know, whatever, It's fine. I mean I 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:45.000 know that when I saw Guernica, I suddenly was like, oh, 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:51.400 health care, everyone should have that. I mean, other things 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.800 went through my mind when I yeah. So the rest 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.880 is kind of unfortunately history. The Nazis were able to 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.000 convince enough people that this was happening, that cultural Bolshevist 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.559 was a thing, uh, and they won open elections, and 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.760 then they destroyed democracy and then you know, Holocaust and such. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.200 Not a not a good story, but a well known 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.440 one at this point. So keep all of that in 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.240 mind as we start our tale of Dr Jordan Balthazar Peterson. 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.520 And I must be honest with you, we both enjoy 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.040 calling him Jordan Balthasar Peterson, but that's not his middle name. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.000 His middle name is Burnt. It's Bumblebee. Oh sorry, Burnt 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.480 b E r in t, which is not a name 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.360 I think I've seen before. He was born on June twelfth, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:35.000 nineteen sixty two, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada's Texas Uh. He 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.480 grew up in a small town called Fairview, which was 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.920 about five hours out from the city. His dad was 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.800 a teacher in a vice principle. His mother, Beverley, was 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.800 a librarian at a nearby college. Jordan was the oldest 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.120 of three kids, and if he can be believed he 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.760 started reading at age three. Um, and he was like 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.640 a big, big book nerd, which I do believe. He's 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.040 very clearly has spent a lot of time reading books 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.440 and not so much time interacting with human beings. Uh. Yeah, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.080 I know. He's he's a he's a reader. He's a reader. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.880 That one So one of his earliest memories was watching 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.080 the enormous state funeral for Bobby Kennedy, and he recalls 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.920 that he thought, I'll have a funeral like that one day. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:20.360 Oh my goodness, I that is I mean, everything I 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.400 know about him and what he said as a young 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.680 man that I didn't catch that that Oh yeah, that's 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.520 That's a great reaction to have to the death of 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.120 someone else in the trauma of a neighboring country. It's like, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.840 one of these days, I'm gonna be dead like that. People. 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.920 People will think that's cool. I'm that cool like Kennedy. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.120 That's pretty Uh, that's pretty telling. Wouldn't it be wild 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.600 if Jordan B. Peterson got into politics and was then 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:54.080 also assassinated by Sir Hans sir Han in California that 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.840 one day is still alive. Maybe, So Jordan B. Peterson 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.160 was raised Protestant, and as a young child he was 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.600 sent to confirmation class, which is a weird ritual that 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.280 some Christians who I did it when I was a 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.640 kid and Christian, where you like study the Bible with 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:09.959 an overly enthusiastic youth group leader who tells you that 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.160 Gandhi is probably in Hell, and then you pass a 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.240 test and you get baptized by the priest in a 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.520 big ceremony thing. Uh. And like most young people who 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.079 have such an experience and our our readers, Jordan was 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.720 left with questions. He pressed his teacher about the literal 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.160 truth of biblical creation stories. Now I'm not sure exactly 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.440 what argument this guy made in response. I haven't found 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.320 it written down anywhere, but Peterson found it unconvincing, and 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.120 he suspected the teacher didn't really believe the argument himself. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:35.520 And I'm gonna quote now from a write up in 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.640 The New Yorker. In Maps of Meaning, which is his 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.440 first book, we'll talk about it later, he remembered his 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.240 reaction religion was for the ignorant, weak, and superstitious. He wrote, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.400 I stopped attending church and joined the modern world. He 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.240 turned first to socialism and then to political science, seeking 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.800 an explanation for the general social and political insanity and 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.160 evil of the world, in each time finding himself unsatisfied. Now, 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.160 a lot of smart pretty much any intelligent person and 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.839 most people, Yeah, pretty much any person is going to 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.839 like at some point be like, oh boy, ship's fucked up, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.320 and you gotta like you gotta like try to puzzle 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.520 that out for yourself. Way you figure out, like, yeah, um, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.040 there's something about like I'm going to solve the mysteries 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.240 of the universe. Yeah, is a bit uh more intense 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.720 with Mr Peterson, Yeah, he has to. He's he's a 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.480 very intense person and the way that he frames things 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.720 is always intense. That will become very obvious as we 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.520 go along. So he says that he was a socialist, 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.120 and yeah, maybe like his time as a socialist was like, 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.360 so he had this librarian when he was in school 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.520 who was the mother of the seventeenth Premier of Alberta, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.560 Rachel not Ley um and not Lee was a member 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.360 of the New Democratic Party, and Peterson did spend his 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.880 teenage years volunteering for the NDP, which is like a 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.880 social democratic party. Um, so a socialist in that sense, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.320 like he was not like a radical communist or anything. 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.439 He was like kind of like a probably Bernie Sanders 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:04.000 ish saying stuff and like yeah, well, um now he 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.079 was during this period of voracious leader, spurred on it 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.840 first by the work of George Orwell, but he eventually 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.480 moved on to Alexander uh Sola Nitzen. Um, I'm always 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.280 pronounced it wrong. I'm sure an iron rand, which I 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.320 always pronounced right. And according to a profile in Toronto 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:24.439 Life quote, while he admired leaders like Ed Broadbent, who 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.320 was an m DP leader, he became disillusioned by the 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.800 party's peevish functionaries. He found Orwell's The Road to Wigan Pierre, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.400 which he read as an undergrad at Grand Prairie Enlightening. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.199 Or Well did a political psychological analysis of the motivations 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.440 of the intellectual, tweed wearing middle class socialist and concluded 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.040 that people like that didn't like the poor, They just 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.640 hated the rich. I thought, ah ha, that's it. It's resentment. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.160 Anyone who set out to change the world by first 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:56.319 changing other people was suspicious. Ah is that why we'd 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.960 like to change the world and make it better for everybody? 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.800 Because we're resented? Full is that why. Yeah. I mean 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.800 there's a number of things going on there. One of 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.680 them is understandable, which is that like he got involved 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.000 with a an actual, like established political party and it 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.720 was full of assholes, which every political party is, because 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:19.520 political parties are disillusioned with any of that stuff by yourself. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.600 And I think he's probably right that a lot of 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.400 these kind of like intellectual, professional left wing politicos didn't 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.280 like the poor and didn't spend any time around them. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.200 They just hated rich people, and like, yeah, that of course, yes, 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.520 like um obviously, um. Where he gets wrong is like 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:36.880 number one, the idea that socialism is changing the world 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.680 by first changing other people. I think there's some assholes 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.040 who say that, but I think most of us would say, like, no, no, no, 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.360 people are fine. It's these systems that are incredibly corrupt 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.640 and fucked up and unjust that need to be changed. 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.480 And then like people can actually live their lives and 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.480 and be decent um without these horrible systems crushing them. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:04.200 That's how I would go. It's like the yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.960 And it's always fascinating to me when reactionaries like Peterson 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.560 Professor love for orwell because they inevitably misinterpret him. And 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:15.000 I just like they don't know what Orwell was saying. Um, 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.360 which is odd because Orwell is a pretty clear writer. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.840 But it happens a lot with him. Um. Orwell was 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.680 not critiquing socialism itself as much as he was criticizing 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.800 the kind of intellectual lefty academic politico types who spent 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.360 all their time arguing over theory and never actually do anything. 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.520 Or was a committed socialist his entire life, and he 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.160 was profoundly working class. You read any of his work, like, 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.560 not just his like like ship like um, he talks 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.200 about stuff like that a lot in um uh homage 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.080 to Catalonia, but like also like a lot of his 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.400 essays and book reviews, like he wrote a bunch of 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.800 reviews of Charles Dickens that are fascinating even if you 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.000 don't like Dickens. There's a good collection of essays called 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.080 them all art is Propaganda. Um. And it's just very 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.160 obvious that he cared deeply and profoundly and understood like 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.720 working class poor people. Um. Just this this the idea 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.840 that Yeah, I don't know, it's frustrating how people think 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.360 about or Well sometimes or Well, the guy who during 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.000 the nineteen twenties said well, if everyone kills one fascist, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.360 soon this problem will be over, and then traveled to 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.400 Spain to kill fascists to do that, to exactly that. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.320 and then got shot in the throat after killing some fascists. Anyway, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.160 I like Orwell, um, not a perfect guy, but really 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.960 good to read and then misinterpret and then uses an 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.280 argument for things that are well didn't believe exactly. Yeah, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.360 that's the game. That's the that's the game with Georgie. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.680 Never write anything, just don't write anything down. Yeah, don't 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.480 write things, don't talk to people, live in a hut 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.120 with a rifle and a large dog, and shoot anyone 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.240 who approaches you. Stare at your door for the rest 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.760 of your life. That's the culture I want. Um. So 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.920 Jordan's early life occurred during kind of the high point 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.640 of Cold War mania. You know, he was born in 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.800 like sixty two obviously, so he's like living through the 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.680 worst parts of the Cold War. And I think a 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.480 lot of people who are like our age may not 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.120 know this. Like, the eighties had some pretty fucking hardcore 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.760 Cold War paranoia. Like that's why Red Dawn was the 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.040 movie that it was Um, yeah, so Jordan's earliest memories 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.320 would have included footage from Vietnam and like constant anxiety 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.280 over nuclear apocalypse. Um, he's not all that much younger 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.240 than my dad, And like my dad grew up I know, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:21.760 with a lot of he's talked about it, like a 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.159 lot of like really realistic fear as a child. But 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.600 the world was going to suddenly end in nuclear hell fire. Um, 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.399 And like I talked about this a lot, but it 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.399 really messed the whole generation up pretty bad. Um in 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.800 an understandable way. So the threat of total war only 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.320 seemed to grow more real as Jordan grew older. He 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.639 was plagued by nightmares of nuclear hell fire for a 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.600 year and a half. He says, like, just yea horrible 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.840 night dreams. He's gotta gott a dream problem, which again 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.560 you can't at this point perfectly reasonable, Like if you 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.600 grew up hearing that should, of course and have nightmares 0:17:55.680 --> 0:18:01.760 about nuclear health fire. Like obviously, sometimes if you're there's 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.320 existential threat constantly, then you're going to have it on 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.160 your mind pretty constantly. Yeah, it's a kind of PTSD 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.280 to be honest. Um. In Toronto Life cryptically writes the 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.520 Jordan quote became depressed and confused about the world's and 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.920 his own capacity for evil, which is interesting. That's interesting. 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:23.119 Uh So I wanted to pop in here, so just 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.960 for more context as we can keep going. Um. And 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.159 his comment about that funeral and how he's going to 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:32.600 have that funeral one day. Um. When he was I 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.359 believe fourteen years old. Um, he ran he was like 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:43.080 into politics and he ran um for uh like election. Um. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.320 And I didn't run across this one. This is why 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:50.280 you're the guest. Uh. Aged fourteen, he became within thirteen 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.320 votes of being elected vice president of the n DP, 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.960 their sort of organization there. Um. And the quote for 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.439 the piece is I won't be happy until an elected 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:03.520 prime minister. Oh good, okay, well there you go. Fine 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.840 things to say when you're fourteen years old. I mean, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.800 nothing to worry about there. I grew up not all 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.280 that differently from Jordan Peterson in a different era, but 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.280 like super bookish, super nerdy. Um. I guess I was 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.040 kind of raised conservative and he like trumped into it. 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.520 But like I had those same like dreams of getting 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:25.639 into politics and they're the dreams of an unhealthy young person. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.560 And as I got older, I realized that it was 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.240 much better to just do tons of drugs and hang 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.359 out on mountains with my friends. Uh, and that that's 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.520 a way healthier thing than getting just like the pressure 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:41.040 of like I won't be happy until I'm so powerful. Yeah, 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.399 the idea that like there, I can't be happy unless 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.440 I'm the prime minister. I have to be the top 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.560 boy in the country otherwise. Yeah, it's pretty much. And 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.560 like any anyone that like seeks like I want to 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.400 be the president that kind of thing later on in life, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.680 like that's you gotta be a certain kind of fund 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.320 up to think that you have the ability and like 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.520 that you should be that that. Yeah, it's a reasonable 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:02.760 thing as a kid to be like I'm going to 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.920 be the president one day. And then as you grow 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.119 older and understand what that means, I think reasonable people 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.199 come to the conclusion of, like, no, no, no, we 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:17.680 need to you know, Bernie Sanders, it's a man. Um 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:19.560 you know, you all know the joke at home. I'm 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.240 not gonna say we all know what he did. We 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.159 all know what he did, so um. Yeah. As he 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.280 grew into a young man, Peterson also grew into a 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.959 young man that is to say he developed an appreciation 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:41.120 for Carl Young. That was good, right right? Yeah, Uh, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.719 it's really a laugh a minute this week. Yeah. So 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.800 Young is uh the inventor of the term collective unconsciousness, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.719 or at least the concept basically. I think he sometimes 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.639 called it. I don't know, I'm not a great young expert. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.160 Suck it. Uh. So Peterson also started but he like Young, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.159 he has Okay, so Young, there's a couple of big 0:20:58.200 --> 0:20:59.679 things abou him. One of them is this idea that 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.000 there's this sort of collective kind of like a racial 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.000 memory um which yes, does feed into some of the 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:06.840 things the Nazis we're talking about, and so did Young. 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.560 We'll talk about that in a bit. And also these 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.159 ideas that there's like these archetypes in human civilization, like 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.520 this like inherent power of myth that humans are bound by, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:19.200 and there's like something almost kind of supernaturally powerful about 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.639 certain like mythal archetypes, the hero and all this kind 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.679 of stuff. Like Young talks about some ship like that. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.080 He's a complicated guy. Um So Peterson big fan of Young. 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.200