1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: M PAD casts. I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: It's a podcast about bad people, the worst in the world. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: In fact, you might say, as I say every week 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: when I opened this show, I'm Robert Evans. Did I 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: already say that? Probably, but there's no way to tell 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: because I can't go back and listen to the audio 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm recording. It's being beamed live directly into your ears. 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: And my guest for this live audio experience that is 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: absolutely authentically live is Cody Johnstone. Hello there, thank you 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: for having me on this live podcast. M H. Now, Cody, 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: you know that we're live, which means we're not going 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: to be able to edit out any of your racist 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: rants against the Swiss. Okay, I mean that's why I 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: say them. I don't, I don't. I don't rant about 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: that so people cannot hear it. We have been protecting 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: Cody from getting Swiss canceled for years, but today we're 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: doing a live episode and bring it on. Bring it 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: on like the Swiss spring one just missed me with 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: the Swiss. Let me tell you. Okay, So, Cody, we 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: got a fun episode this week in a special episode 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: that I brought you on for because I know that 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: you're a huge fan of the guy we're going to 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: be talking about this week. Doctor fans doctor. He's a doctor, 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Jordan's B. Peterson. I love Jordan Peterson, who's a doctor. 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: I respect. Um. I am very happy that you're doing 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: this episode and that I get to partake in it. Um. 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: He's a He's one of my heroes. So yeah, you 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: love him. I love him. Uh. Watched a lot of 29 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: his speeches lectures. I guess you'd call him sermons. One 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: might call him. He might call them sermons. He might 31 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: call them sermons. We'll talk about that. Uh yeah, yeah, 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean so you know, you know I joke about 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: starting a cult a lot on this show. Yeah, I do. 34 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: I do. And there's jokes, the jokes to join your cult, 35 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: they're not entirely jokes because I will probably start a 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: cult one It's kind of my retirement plan because I 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: don't really think four O one ks are going to 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: be useful that far into the future. But having a cult, 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, you always make money what I call yeah, 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: absolutely cash in on people. And that's why we're talking 41 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: about Jordan B. Peterson today, because he's not a cult 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: leader in the traditional sense, um, but he did create 43 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: a cult. Like it's a weird situation because he never 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: like had a bunch of people move on to land 45 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: and wound fight you know, federal law enforcement agencies. I 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: guess in Canada that would be the mount he's But 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: he still does have a cult, and they, if you like, 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: go to their little spaces on Reddit and stuff, like, 49 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: they are still they are completely devoted to this man 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: and his ideas, even though spoilers his life has got 51 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: completely I was gonna say, like, I didn't realize that 52 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: they was still going that strong, Like I don't because 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: because he disappeared, because because things are crumbling for him, 54 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: because his life has been shattered by his own Yes, yes, yeah, 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: but but yeah, I thought I might assume that there 56 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: there would be people that's still doing that, but I haven't. 57 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: I haven't delved into the spaces in a while. Yeah, 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: So good for them, Good for them. Yeah, Yeah, it's fun, 59 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: It's very fun. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: Jordan B. Peterson, um, and we're going to talk about fascism. 61 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: Because while I'm not sure if I would call Dr 62 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: Jordan B. Peterson a fascist, I would say he's one 63 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: of the most insidious platformers of a specific strain of 64 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: ideology that feeds into the fascist movement in the United 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: States worldwide. It's fun. I would agree with that. I 66 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: I actually might go a little farther than you. Um 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: and yeah to label him. Um yeah. I feel like 68 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: we might just we might just give the whole story 69 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: and then people can apply their own labels to Jordan's 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Alhazara Peterson. Before we talk about Dr Jordan B. Peterson, 71 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: I'd like to talk about the Bolshevik evolution. Now, this 72 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: is a topic that that Dr Jordan B. Peterson is 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: particularly obsessed with. Multiple interviewers will note that his house 74 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: is absolutely filled with Soviet propaganda, much of it from 75 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: like the early eras of that regime, and when questioned 76 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: about it, he'll generally explain it as a sort of 77 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: know your enemy deal, like you know, you've gotta I 78 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: want to understand Marxists, and then he'll say something like 79 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: Marxism is resurgent in a haunted voice, which he said 80 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: to a journalist from the New York Times, I think 81 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: it was. He says it a lot. Yeah, Marxist. Yeah, 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: imagine kermit. Uh if you if you took the brain 83 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: of Joe McCarthy and shoved it into Kermit the frog. 84 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: That's more or less Dr Jordan B. Peterson. So back 85 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: in the late nineteen teens and twenties, there were a 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: lot of people who had the same concerns about Marxism 87 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: all across Western Europe. And this was a somewhat more 88 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: reasonable fear then, because Marxism was certainly resurgeon or at 89 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: least surging in that period. Um and Fascists in particular 90 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: were terribly paranoid about it. Were the only ones. Obviously 91 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to be concerned about the Soviet state, 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: but there was some, shall we say, unreasonable paranoia about 93 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: everything from the left, from folks who were, you know, 94 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: proto Nazis. Now a term began to percolate among these 95 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: people called in the term was Judeo Bolshevism, and this 96 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: was kind of the word for a conspiracy that Communism 97 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: was being spread around the world by Jewish people. They 98 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: were often compared to like a virus for communism that 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: introduces it into the blood stream of a healthy society. 100 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: Um and that was kind of the strain of thought 101 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: that led to the Holocaust. At least one of them. 102 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of stuff like the Holocaust. Yeah, 103 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: but that was a big part of it. Um. Now, 104 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: it is true that a number of like the first 105 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: Bolsheviks were Jewish, the guys who carried out, you know, 106 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: the big nineteen seventeen revolution in Russia. Um, but there 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: were also a lot of people who are not at 108 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: all Jewish who are involved in making the Soviet Union 109 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: be a thing, including Joseph Stalin. And also if you 110 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: actually look at the particularly the early history of the 111 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, not a great place to be Jewish, Like 112 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: some real bad things happened to Jewish folks then so um, 113 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: of course Czaris Russia also a terrible place to be Jewish, 114 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: I would say that, yeah, anyway, I mean historically many many, 115 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: many places. Yeah, basically everywhere actually, Like but if you 116 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: want to like people sometimes overstate how bad the USSR 117 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: was for Jewish people, to make it look like it 118 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: was like a specific thing with communism, whereas like the 119 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: reality is is under the czar and like the late 120 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds you had the Chelnitski massacre, who was the 121 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: largest massacre of Jewish people probably in history until the Holocaust. Anyway, 122 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: fun the czar. So yeah, this conspiracy basically claimed that 123 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: all Jewish people everywhere were engaged in a covert plan 124 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: to destroy Christianity and Western civilization by bringing communism, and 125 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: like communism is an atheistic thing, like there's no not 126 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: supposed to be any religion under especially like the kind 127 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: of communism was being pushed in this period, and so 128 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: the idea was, like, this is the Jews trying to 129 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: kill Christianity communist. Yeah, I loved everybody loves saying that 130 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: the Jews are trying to destroy Christianity. Yea. As a rule, 131 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: if you're saying the Jews and anything follows after that, 132 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: maybe yeah, yeah, maybe that's probably not yeah yeah. As 133 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: the Nazi movement picked up steam, Nazi writers and media 134 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: critics gained popularity in German culture, and they really like 135 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: they were kind of enraged by this. You know. Weimar Germany, 136 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: as we've talked about, was a super progressive place, a 137 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: lot of like like unprecedented gains for LGBT people, um, 138 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: kind of some of the first recognition of folks who 139 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: were like non binary, and also just like a crazy 140 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: amount of art and of course a decent amount of 141 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: that art was pornographic because like people, people be having fun. Uh, 142 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean, do you mean you mean degenerate Robert you 143 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: mean art? Yeah, that's what these Nazi critics would have said. 144 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: And and they went further. They claimed that like all 145 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: of this art, a lot of which was you know, 146 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: queer in orientation, was somehow tied to communism and it 147 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: was part of a plot to weaken German culture to 148 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: allow a left wing takeover. If this seems familiar, it's 149 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: because you can hear the exact same thing if you 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: turn on like a third of YouTube. Oh yeah, So 151 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,119 Speaker 1: the term cultural Bolshevism overtook judaeo Bolshevism in this period, 152 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: and it was kind of like the more educated, less 153 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: bigoted persons like cultural Bolshevism. They're trying to they're trying 154 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: to Bolshevize our nation by going through the arts and 155 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: stuff and like taking over kids minds with their evil 156 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: books and their dirty pictures and stuff like that. Just 157 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: because sorry, it's just like it's just art. Like what 158 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: do you like? What do you think art is? It's 159 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: like I don't know, whatever, It's fine. I mean I 160 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: know that when I saw Guernica, I suddenly was like, oh, 161 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: health care, everyone should have that. I mean, other things 162 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: went through my mind when I yeah. So the rest 163 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: is kind of unfortunately history. The Nazis were able to 164 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: convince enough people that this was happening, that cultural Bolshevist 165 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: was a thing, uh, and they won open elections, and 166 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: then they destroyed democracy and then you know, Holocaust and such. 167 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: Not a not a good story, but a well known 168 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: one at this point. So keep all of that in 169 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: mind as we start our tale of Dr Jordan Balthazar Peterson. 170 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: And I must be honest with you, we both enjoy 171 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: calling him Jordan Balthasar Peterson, but that's not his middle name. 172 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: His middle name is Burnt. It's Bumblebee. Oh sorry, Burnt 173 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: b E r in t, which is not a name 174 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: I think I've seen before. He was born on June twelfth, 175 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada's Texas Uh. He 176 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: grew up in a small town called Fairview, which was 177 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: about five hours out from the city. His dad was 178 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: a teacher in a vice principle. His mother, Beverley, was 179 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: a librarian at a nearby college. Jordan was the oldest 180 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: of three kids, and if he can be believed he 181 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: started reading at age three. Um, and he was like 182 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: a big, big book nerd, which I do believe. He's 183 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: very clearly has spent a lot of time reading books 184 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: and not so much time interacting with human beings. Uh. Yeah, 185 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: I know. He's he's a he's a reader. He's a reader. 186 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: That one So one of his earliest memories was watching 187 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: the enormous state funeral for Bobby Kennedy, and he recalls 188 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: that he thought, I'll have a funeral like that one day. 189 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I that is I mean, everything I 190 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: know about him and what he said as a young 191 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: man that I didn't catch that that Oh yeah, that's 192 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: That's a great reaction to have to the death of 193 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: someone else in the trauma of a neighboring country. It's like, 194 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: one of these days, I'm gonna be dead like that. People. 195 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: People will think that's cool. I'm that cool like Kennedy. 196 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: That's pretty Uh, that's pretty telling. Wouldn't it be wild 197 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: if Jordan B. Peterson got into politics and was then 198 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: also assassinated by Sir Hans sir Han in California that 199 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: one day is still alive. Maybe, So Jordan B. Peterson 200 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: was raised Protestant, and as a young child he was 201 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: sent to confirmation class, which is a weird ritual that 202 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: some Christians who I did it when I was a 203 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: kid and Christian, where you like study the Bible with 204 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: an overly enthusiastic youth group leader who tells you that 205 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: Gandhi is probably in Hell, and then you pass a 206 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: test and you get baptized by the priest in a 207 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: big ceremony thing. Uh. And like most young people who 208 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: have such an experience and our our readers, Jordan was 209 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: left with questions. He pressed his teacher about the literal 210 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: truth of biblical creation stories. Now I'm not sure exactly 211 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: what argument this guy made in response. I haven't found 212 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: it written down anywhere, but Peterson found it unconvincing, and 213 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: he suspected the teacher didn't really believe the argument himself. 214 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from a write up in 215 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: The New Yorker. In Maps of Meaning, which is his 216 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: first book, we'll talk about it later, he remembered his 217 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: reaction religion was for the ignorant, weak, and superstitious. He wrote, 218 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: I stopped attending church and joined the modern world. He 219 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: turned first to socialism and then to political science, seeking 220 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: an explanation for the general social and political insanity and 221 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: evil of the world, in each time finding himself unsatisfied. Now, 222 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: a lot of smart pretty much any intelligent person and 223 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: most people, Yeah, pretty much any person is going to 224 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: like at some point be like, oh boy, ship's fucked up, 225 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: and you gotta like you gotta like try to puzzle 226 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: that out for yourself. Way you figure out, like, yeah, um, 227 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: there's something about like I'm going to solve the mysteries 228 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: of the universe. Yeah, is a bit uh more intense 229 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: with Mr Peterson, Yeah, he has to. He's he's a 230 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: very intense person and the way that he frames things 231 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: is always intense. That will become very obvious as we 232 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: go along. So he says that he was a socialist, 233 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: and yeah, maybe like his time as a socialist was like, 234 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: so he had this librarian when he was in school 235 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: who was the mother of the seventeenth Premier of Alberta, 236 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: Rachel not Ley um and not Lee was a member 237 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: of the New Democratic Party, and Peterson did spend his 238 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: teenage years volunteering for the NDP, which is like a 239 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: social democratic party. Um, so a socialist in that sense, 240 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: like he was not like a radical communist or anything. 241 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: He was like kind of like a probably Bernie Sanders 242 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: ish saying stuff and like yeah, well, um now he 243 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: was during this period of voracious leader, spurred on it 244 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: first by the work of George Orwell, but he eventually 245 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: moved on to Alexander uh Sola Nitzen. Um, I'm always 246 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: pronounced it wrong. I'm sure an iron rand, which I 247 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: always pronounced right. And according to a profile in Toronto 248 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: Life quote, while he admired leaders like Ed Broadbent, who 249 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: was an m DP leader, he became disillusioned by the 250 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: party's peevish functionaries. He found Orwell's The Road to Wigan Pierre, 251 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: which he read as an undergrad at Grand Prairie Enlightening. 252 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: Or Well did a political psychological analysis of the motivations 253 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: of the intellectual, tweed wearing middle class socialist and concluded 254 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: that people like that didn't like the poor, They just 255 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: hated the rich. I thought, ah ha, that's it. It's resentment. 256 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: Anyone who set out to change the world by first 257 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: changing other people was suspicious. Ah is that why we'd 258 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: like to change the world and make it better for everybody? 259 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Because we're resented? Full is that why. Yeah. I mean 260 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: there's a number of things going on there. One of 261 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: them is understandable, which is that like he got involved 262 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: with a an actual, like established political party and it 263 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: was full of assholes, which every political party is, because 264 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: political parties are disillusioned with any of that stuff by yourself. 265 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: And I think he's probably right that a lot of 266 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: these kind of like intellectual, professional left wing politicos didn't 267 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: like the poor and didn't spend any time around them. 268 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: They just hated rich people, and like, yeah, that of course, yes, 269 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: like um obviously, um. Where he gets wrong is like 270 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: number one, the idea that socialism is changing the world 271 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: by first changing other people. I think there's some assholes 272 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: who say that, but I think most of us would say, like, no, no, no, 273 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: people are fine. It's these systems that are incredibly corrupt 274 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: and fucked up and unjust that need to be changed. 275 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: And then like people can actually live their lives and 276 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: and be decent um without these horrible systems crushing them. 277 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: That's how I would go. It's like the yeah, yeah, yeah. 278 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: And it's always fascinating to me when reactionaries like Peterson 279 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: Professor love for orwell because they inevitably misinterpret him. And 280 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: I just like they don't know what Orwell was saying. Um, 281 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: which is odd because Orwell is a pretty clear writer. 282 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: But it happens a lot with him. Um. Orwell was 283 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: not critiquing socialism itself as much as he was criticizing 284 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: the kind of intellectual lefty academic politico types who spent 285 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: all their time arguing over theory and never actually do anything. 286 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: Or was a committed socialist his entire life, and he 287 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: was profoundly working class. You read any of his work, like, 288 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: not just his like like ship like um, he talks 289 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: about stuff like that a lot in um uh homage 290 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: to Catalonia, but like also like a lot of his 291 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: essays and book reviews, like he wrote a bunch of 292 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: reviews of Charles Dickens that are fascinating even if you 293 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: don't like Dickens. There's a good collection of essays called 294 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: them all art is Propaganda. Um. And it's just very 295 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: obvious that he cared deeply and profoundly and understood like 296 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: working class poor people. Um. Just this this the idea 297 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: that Yeah, I don't know, it's frustrating how people think 298 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: about or Well sometimes or Well, the guy who during 299 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties said well, if everyone kills one fascist, 300 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: soon this problem will be over, and then traveled to 301 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Spain to kill fascists to do that, to exactly that. Yeah, yeah, 302 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: and then got shot in the throat after killing some fascists. Anyway, 303 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: I like Orwell, um, not a perfect guy, but really 304 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: good to read and then misinterpret and then uses an 305 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: argument for things that are well didn't believe exactly. Yeah, 306 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: that's the game. That's the that's the game with Georgie. 307 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: Never write anything, just don't write anything down. Yeah, don't 308 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: write things, don't talk to people, live in a hut 309 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: with a rifle and a large dog, and shoot anyone 310 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: who approaches you. Stare at your door for the rest 311 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: of your life. That's the culture I want. Um. So 312 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: Jordan's early life occurred during kind of the high point 313 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: of Cold War mania. You know, he was born in 314 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: like sixty two obviously, so he's like living through the 315 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: worst parts of the Cold War. And I think a 316 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: lot of people who are like our age may not 317 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: know this. Like, the eighties had some pretty fucking hardcore 318 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: Cold War paranoia. Like that's why Red Dawn was the 319 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: movie that it was Um, yeah, so Jordan's earliest memories 320 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: would have included footage from Vietnam and like constant anxiety 321 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: over nuclear apocalypse. Um, he's not all that much younger 322 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: than my dad, And like my dad grew up I know, 323 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: with a lot of he's talked about it, like a 324 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: lot of like really realistic fear as a child. But 325 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: the world was going to suddenly end in nuclear hell fire. Um, 326 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: And like I talked about this a lot, but it 327 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: really messed the whole generation up pretty bad. Um in 328 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: an understandable way. So the threat of total war only 329 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: seemed to grow more real as Jordan grew older. He 330 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: was plagued by nightmares of nuclear hell fire for a 331 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: year and a half. He says, like, just yea horrible 332 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: night dreams. He's gotta gott a dream problem, which again 333 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: you can't at this point perfectly reasonable, Like if you 334 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: grew up hearing that should, of course and have nightmares 335 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: about nuclear health fire. Like obviously, sometimes if you're there's 336 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: existential threat constantly, then you're going to have it on 337 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: your mind pretty constantly. Yeah, it's a kind of PTSD 338 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: to be honest. Um. In Toronto Life cryptically writes the 339 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: Jordan quote became depressed and confused about the world's and 340 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: his own capacity for evil, which is interesting. That's interesting. 341 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: Uh So I wanted to pop in here, so just 342 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: for more context as we can keep going. Um. And 343 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: his comment about that funeral and how he's going to 344 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: have that funeral one day. Um. When he was I 345 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: believe fourteen years old. Um, he ran he was like 346 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: into politics and he ran um for uh like election. Um. 347 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: And I didn't run across this one. This is why 348 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: you're the guest. Uh. Aged fourteen, he became within thirteen 349 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: votes of being elected vice president of the n DP, 350 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: their sort of organization there. Um. And the quote for 351 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: the piece is I won't be happy until an elected 352 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: prime minister. Oh good, okay, well there you go. Fine 353 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: things to say when you're fourteen years old. I mean, 354 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: nothing to worry about there. I grew up not all 355 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: that differently from Jordan Peterson in a different era, but 356 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: like super bookish, super nerdy. Um. I guess I was 357 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: kind of raised conservative and he like trumped into it. 358 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: But like I had those same like dreams of getting 359 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: into politics and they're the dreams of an unhealthy young person. 360 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: And as I got older, I realized that it was 361 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: much better to just do tons of drugs and hang 362 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: out on mountains with my friends. Uh, and that that's 363 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: a way healthier thing than getting just like the pressure 364 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: of like I won't be happy until I'm so powerful. Yeah, 365 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: the idea that like there, I can't be happy unless 366 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm the prime minister. I have to be the top 367 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: boy in the country otherwise. Yeah, it's pretty much. And 368 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: like any anyone that like seeks like I want to 369 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: be the president that kind of thing later on in life, 370 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: like that's you gotta be a certain kind of fund 371 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: up to think that you have the ability and like 372 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: that you should be that that. Yeah, it's a reasonable 373 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: thing as a kid to be like I'm going to 374 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: be the president one day. And then as you grow 375 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: older and understand what that means, I think reasonable people 376 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: come to the conclusion of, like, no, no, no, we 377 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: need to you know, Bernie Sanders, it's a man. Um 378 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, you all know the joke at home. I'm 379 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: not gonna say we all know what he did. We 380 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: all know what he did, so um. Yeah. As he 381 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: grew into a young man, Peterson also grew into a 382 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 1: young man that is to say he developed an appreciation 383 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: for Carl Young. That was good, right right? Yeah, Uh, 384 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 1: it's really a laugh a minute this week. Yeah. So 385 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: Young is uh the inventor of the term collective unconsciousness, 386 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 1: or at least the concept basically. I think he sometimes 387 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: called it. I don't know, I'm not a great young expert. 388 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: Suck it. Uh. So Peterson also started but he like Young, 389 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: he has Okay, so Young, there's a couple of big 390 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: things abou him. One of them is this idea that 391 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: there's this sort of collective kind of like a racial 392 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: memory um which yes, does feed into some of the 393 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: things the Nazis we're talking about, and so did Young. 394 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in a bit. And also these 395 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: ideas that there's like these archetypes in human civilization, like 396 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: this like inherent power of myth that humans are bound by, 397 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: and there's like something almost kind of supernaturally powerful about 398 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: certain like mythal archetypes, the hero and all this kind 399 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: of stuff. Like Young talks about some ship like that. 400 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: He's a complicated guy. Um So Peterson big fan of Young. 401 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: He also starts devouring Nietzsche uh and a Romanian scholar 402 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: named Mercea Eliad she's a scholar of religion. Um. And 403 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: he also starts to devouring the work of an American 404 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: professor called Joseph Campbell, whose popular book on the hero 405 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: myth and society had a profound cultural impact and one 406 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: that's not dis similar to Peterson's own work. So his 407 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: like Hero with the Thousand Faces, I think is the book, um, 408 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: kind of winds up inspiring every single Disney movie that's 409 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: ever been made in your lifetime. U. Yeah, because like 410 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: it's Star Wars beat for beat, it's Star Wars beat 411 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: for Beat, It's it's Dan Dan Harmon's story circle. And 412 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: it's like there's a lot of there's obviously a lot 413 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: that Campbell got right, because he's correct about things that 414 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: resonate with people. There's a reason that all these very 415 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: successful stories. Yeah, and the archives are common. I think 416 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: the real thing that resonates with people is like just 417 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: the arc of that basic story. You one of the 418 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: things are a different thing. You try to get the 419 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: thing you wanting you actually need, and you sacrifice a thing, 420 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: you change and so on and so forth. Um. Yeah, yeah, 421 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: and and and Joseph Campbell, it's an important work of scholarship. 422 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: Campbell is also problematic as funk, which we'll talk about 423 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: in a little bit. So these are like the people 424 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: who Peterson starts to devour and like they start to 425 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: influence his mind. Like this is like what creates the 426 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: mentality the mind that Jordan Peterson has as an adult. Now, 427 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: when we talk about the writers and philosophers who started 428 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: to form like the core of his growing ideological development, 429 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: we would be remiss if we didn't discuss at some 430 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: length what kind of things those writers wound up supporting 431 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: and believing themselves, because I don't think a lot of 432 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: people know this. Yeah. Now, thankfully a writer named Pankaj 433 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: Mishra did that for us in a two thousand eighteen 434 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: article for The New York Review of Books titled Jordan 435 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: Peterson and Fascist Mysticism. Now, Pankaj makes a note of 436 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: some of the things we've talked about in other episodes 437 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: of this show, how the rise of fascism in Europe 438 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: happened alongside the rise of esoteric spiritual movements like theosophy 439 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: and anthroposophy, which we did an episode of, and like 440 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: a weird fascination with Asian mysticism, which is kind of 441 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: like why the Nazis sent expeditions out to the Himalayas 442 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: and stuff which a lot of people don't know about that. 443 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: You can read about that on an air bay on 444 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: your own time, or maybe we'll do an episode about it. 445 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: It's wacky shit. Um I'm gonna quote from that Pankaj 446 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: Mishra article quote a range of intellectual entrepreneurs, from theosophists 447 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: and venders of Asian spirituality like Vivi Kannada and DZ 448 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: Suzuki too, scholars of Asia like Arthur Whaley, and fascist 449 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 1: idealogues like Julius A. Vola, who is Steve Bannon's favorite philosopher, 450 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: set up stalls in the new marketplace of ideas. W. B. 451 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: Yates Um adjusting Indian plosophy to the needs of the 452 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: Celtic revival pontificated on the ancient self. Young spun his 453 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: own variations on this evidently ancestral unconscious. Such conceptually foggy 454 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: categories as spirit and intuition acquired broad currency. Peterson's favorite 455 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: words being in chaos, started to appear in capital letters, 456 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: which he also is how he also tends to refer 457 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: ums like yeah, these these writers in these intellectual strains 458 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: are both huge parts of everything Peterson writes today. And 459 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: there were also big parts of kind of the intellectual 460 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: stew that starts cooking in Europe really in like it 461 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: starts before World War One, but it really gets going 462 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: in the twenties. Um. And these have a big impact 463 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: on the development of fascism. Now some of them is coincidental. 464 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: Fascism is happening at the same time, so of course 465 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: like this is in the fucking air, and people pick 466 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: some of it up. A decent number of these philosophers 467 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: and academics were not fascists, but their work influenced Hitlerist 468 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: ideas of like racial community, which is not all that 469 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: different from kind of Young's concept of of collective unconscious. 470 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: There's similarities at least an aryan mystic beliefs um quote 471 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: by the early twentieth century, ethnic racial chauvinists everywhere, Hindu 472 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: supremacists in India as well as we talked about that 473 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: in our our episode on I Forget the Hindu fascist 474 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: Lady um as well as Catholic ultra yeah, as well 475 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: as Catholic ultra nationalists in France. We're offering visions who 476 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: uprooted people of a rooted, organic society in which hierarchies 477 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: and values had been stable. As Carla Poe points out 478 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: in New Religions and the Nazis two thousand five, political 479 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: cultists would typically mix pieces of yoga and Abrahamic religions 480 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: with popular notions of science, or rather pseudoscience, such as 481 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: concepts of race, eugenics, or evolution. It was this opportunistic 482 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: amalgam of ideas that helped nourish new mythologies of would 483 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: be totalitarian regimes. And obviously, like Darwinism plays a lot 484 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: of in this which so clearly again I'm yeah, and 485 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: when I'm taking sorry, like taking like these sort of 486 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: spiritual ideas and combining them with like biological things. And 487 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: just like Peter Peterson does this a lot of just 488 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: like he he reads, he reads everything, yeah, and he 489 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: has a habit of taking everything he reads and putting 490 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: it all together, which is you know, syncretism is um 491 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: as another kind of hallmark that echoes set of fascism 492 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: um and it is one of those things. All these thinkers, 493 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: all of these ideological strains are not inherently fascists, just 494 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: as Darwinism, like most people today, except Darwinian evolution is 495 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: basically true and are not fascists, right, but like it 496 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: had a huge impact on Hitler, and you do have to, 497 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: like I think it intelligent people can understand both of 498 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: those things. Um yeah, that like things where it's like 499 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: just like like the like Darwinism where it's like this 500 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: is a thing that is it's uh, it's not a 501 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: thing that we need to like force or do or 502 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: like ascribe to or like yeah, it just happy around. 503 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: It just happens. Uh. He has a bad habit of 504 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: like prescriptive versus like normative claims and like, well there, 505 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: this is this, we should have to do this, yes, Jordan, 506 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and we'll will be will be most of 507 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: these both of these episodes will be about his ideas, right, 508 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: and like what the things he believes and says, Um 509 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: now I just got over saying because I want to 510 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: be very clear here, like if you like some of 511 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 1: these thinkers, if you're if you've been inspired by them, 512 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're a fascist or their fascist. That said. 513 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: A lot of the writers Peterson specifically loves, got real 514 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: fashi during this period. Mercia Elliott, who's that Romanian scholar herself, 515 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: She fasci as fuck. Mercia Elliott, who's that Romanian scholar 516 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: allied herself with the Romanian Iron Guard who were Romanian Nazis, right, like, 517 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: these are the people who like their Nazis. Carl Young 518 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: wrote about the Aryan soul and unfortunately the Jewish psyche um, 519 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: and he was initially was initially very sympathy. Yeah, neither 520 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: of those are good. And he was initially sympathetic to 521 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party. Now he changed his mind, and he 522 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: did change his mind pretty early on, but he was 523 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: very sympathy, like he got drawn along for a little 524 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: while there. Yeah that makes sense. I mean you can, 525 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: like there are lots of quotes of Peterson talking about 526 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: Trump where it's like, uh, you know, you know what 527 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: it is, but you're yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah yeah. 528 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell obviously came around later, and he never he 529 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: was not an open supporter of like a Nazi movement. 530 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: But once his book The Hero with a Thousand Faces 531 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: became a hit and he was being interviewed by every 532 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: TV station and whatnot in contemporary America. Like again, he 533 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: had a very Jordan Peterson like ark to his career, 534 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: and once he gained prominence, he would regularly drop lines 535 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: like Marxist philosophy has overtaken the university in America. I 536 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: did not enjoy that at all. Y I'm doing I'm 537 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: actually kind of doing a Ben Shapiro voice there. Yeah, 538 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: I didn't, Like, I can't say Marxist without thinking of 539 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: been Yeah, Maists everywhere around me. Now, it's unfair that 540 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: I do that for Ben, because, um, Joseph Campbell was 541 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: profoundly anti Semitic. I just wanted he hated black people, 542 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: just super racist, super anti semitic, like Campbell and Campbell 543 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: kind of kept a little on that a bit, but like, oh, 544 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: when you like, he was a guy who hated Marxism 545 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: and also hated Jewish people, and you do get the 546 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: feeling that, like he kind of agreed with that Nazi 547 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: idea that Jewish people spread Marxism, right right. I mean, 548 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: if you have both of those and one has kind 549 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: of kept secret, chances are that they're very related and 550 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: fuel each other. Yeah, he's he was. He was super 551 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: racist as fuck. Um, And yeah, obviously Campbell's racism doesn't 552 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: mean there's nothing we can learn from him, because you 553 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: kind of have to, especially if you if you're interested 554 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: in storytelling, you kind of have to read the here 555 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: with a thousand faces, even if you disagree with it, 556 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people who do and say 557 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: that like, no, he gets a lot of like, but 558 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: you still it's just it's that important of a work. 559 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying, let's exercise these guys from our 560 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: intellectual history. But like Campbell was basically a Nazi, right yeah, 561 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: but like if you, if you, if you read his 562 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: work and then write Star Wars, you're not a yes, yes, 563 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: George Lucas, In fact, I would go so fast to 564 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: say doesn't like nazis pretty anti Nazi guy. It's stars 565 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: despite his his magic blood religion that he put in 566 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: his movies. But he's got some problematic aspects. But I 567 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear even in the Prequels that George 568 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Lucas is saying, Hey, you know what's bad as fascism? 569 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's the one. It's the problem with the 570 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: prequels is it's a great idea that it's bad. Yeah, 571 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: he just needed an editor. Um. Speaking of speaking of editors, 572 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, speaking of editors, I don't know. You know, Cody, 573 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: let's talk about something else for just a second. How 574 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: do you feel about school buses full of kids. I 575 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: hope they get to school and home from school. Oh see, 576 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say you hope that 577 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: they get hit by hellfire missiles from the sky. And 578 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: I was going to tell you that Raytheon, our sponsor, 579 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: makes the missile guidance chips that that make the targeting 580 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: of school buses possible. Oh so where can school buses now? Yeah? 581 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: Kind of wanna. I would love to help or get 582 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: like a promo code for for for these chips. Well yeah, 583 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: if you actually type in promo code Yemen, you can 584 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: get a discount on your next missile guidance systems thanks 585 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: to our sponsors, Raytheon. Okay, so I will be able 586 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: to afford this with the promo code. Oh absolutely. Raytheon's 587 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: goal is making it possible for regular people like you 588 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: and me to fire missiles at school buses and parts 589 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: of the world that we barely understand. This has gone 590 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: on far too long. Let's hear from Raytheon now. So 591 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: so you sold me, We're back? Okay, So yeah, Campbell's 592 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: racism doesn't mean we shouldn't learn stuff from him. Just 593 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: like the fact that young dabbled in Nazism doesn't mean 594 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: that he's not worth studying as an intellectual. Carl Young 595 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: had said a lot of stuff that's really interesting, and 596 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are fans of him, 597 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: so I'm not again like anyway, The point is that 598 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: an awful lot of the guys who find themselves writing 599 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: at length about stuff like ancestral memories and archetypes also 600 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: wound up having Nazi adjacent beliefs, Like a lot of 601 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: the people who started codifying those lines of thought in 602 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: human philosophy also wound up being really drawn to the Nazis. 603 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: And that's something we should keep in mind when other 604 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: people have similar few drawn in similar directions. And these 605 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: are the folks that Jordan Peterson found himself pulled towards 606 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: as a young man, and that's worth noting now. Young adult, 607 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson gravitated to clinical psychology. He went to or 608 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: psychology whatever. He went to McGill University for his undergraduate 609 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: and his graduate terms. He eventually became a doctor um 610 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: and during his time in college he came to grapple 611 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: with his romantic feelings for a childhood friend, Tammy Roberts. 612 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: Jordan and Tammy grew up on the same street. They 613 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: went to prom together. He invited her to Montreal for 614 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: Canadian Thanksgiving one year while he was in college, and 615 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: the two hit it off romantically. They moved in together, 616 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: and like whatever else you can say of the guy, 617 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: it seems like he's like deeply devoted to his wife 618 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: and she to him. Um, it's unfortunately some of the 619 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: things that they're devoted to together, but I guess that's 620 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: good for him. He he fell in love. Um So 621 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: Peterson proposed to her repeatedly before the two married in 622 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. Tammy later recalled, I thought, if I 623 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: don't marry Jordan's I'm not going to know what he 624 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: does with his life, and he's going to be an 625 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: interesting person. Um. She was not incorrect in that he 626 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: is an interesting guy, very interesting person. I wouldn't marry 627 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: him to know what happens to him personally, But you 628 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: would not marry Dr Jordan B. Peterson. Well, Cody, then 629 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: you might be too biased to participate in this episode 630 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: any longer. So if you get Tammy on the line, 631 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, so uh next in Jordan Peterson's life. 632 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: According to the magazine Toronto Life quote, their first child, Michaela, 633 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen ninety two. The family moved to Boston, 634 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: where Peterson took a job at Harvard then had then 635 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: Tammy had Julian. Peterson taught psych at Harvard for six years. 636 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: When Michaela was seven, she was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis 637 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: and started showing signs of depression. Tammy, who had become 638 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: an artist and massage therapist, put her career on hold 639 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: to care for her daughter. In Peterson was offered a 640 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: tenure track position at the University of Toronto and the 641 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: family returned to Canada. At u f T he was 642 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: a swashbuckling, beloved professor. Students regarded him as a kind 643 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: of guru for people just figuring out who they were 644 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: and what they wanted to be. He offered a seductive 645 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: bulwark of certainty. There are perhaps one or two professors 646 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: you'll run into during her your career who completely capture 647 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: and captivate you, says Christine Brothie, one of Peterson's current 648 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: grad students, and he was one of them. Now, that 649 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: Toronto Life article is really interesting and I think quite good, 650 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: but it's summary of Peterson's early career path is only 651 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: broadly accurate. It does leave some things out and we're 652 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: fortunate that. In two thousand eighteen, University of Toronto professor 653 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: Bernard Schiff wrote an op ed for The Star. Its 654 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: title is I was Jordan Peterson's strongest supporter. Now I 655 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: think he's dangerous. We'll be referring to this article the 656 00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: number of times yeah, yeah, important articles, Yeah, very felt 657 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: stating yeah in fascinating and in his article Bernard gives 658 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: us an inside look at how Jordan came to teach 659 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: at the University of Toronto. Quote. I met Jordan Peterson 660 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: when he came to the University of Toronto to be 661 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: interviewed for an assistant professorship in the Department of Psychology. 662 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: His CV was impeccable, with terrific references in a pedigree 663 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: that included a PhD from McGill and a five year 664 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: stint at Harvard As an assistant professor. We did not 665 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: share research interests, but it was clear that his work 666 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: was solid. My colleagues on the search committee were skeptical. 667 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: They felt he was too eccentric, but somehow I prevailed. 668 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: Several committee members now remind me that they agreed to 669 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: hire him because they were tired of hearing me shout 670 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: over them. I pushed for him because he was a 671 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: divergent thinker, self educated in the humanities, intellectually, flamboyant, bold, energetic, 672 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: and confident, bordering on arrogant. I thought he would bring 673 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: a new excitement, along with new ideas to our department. 674 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: Professor Schiff, who was then nearing retirement, took Jordan under 675 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: his wing for the last three years of his career 676 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: as a full time professor. Now Shift grew too deeply 677 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: like Peterson, and he pushed for him to receive regular 678 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: promotion and raises. When Peterson renovated his house, Shift put 679 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: Jordan and his family up in his own home. Quote. 680 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: We had meals together in the evening and long colorful 681 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: conversations there. Away from campus, I saw a man who 682 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: was devoted to his wife and his children, who were 683 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 1: lovely and gentle and for whom I still feel affection. 684 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: He was attentive and thoughtful, stern and kind, playful and warm. 685 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: His wife, Tammy, appeared to be the keel, the ballast, 686 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 1: and the rudder, and Jordan ran the ship. Now it's 687 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: really clear from this article that Professor Shift deeply enjoyed 688 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: Peterson's company and respected him tremendously as a man an 689 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: a professor, and unfortunately, Shift feels this now blinded him 690 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: to some of the less savory aspects of Peterson's personality 691 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: which had started to emerge in this period. Shift laments 692 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: that he did not give sufficient concern to some of 693 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: Jordan's teaching tactics. Quote as the undergraduate chair, I read 694 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: all teaching reviews. His work, for the most part excellent 695 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: and included eyebrow raising comments such as this course has 696 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: changed my life. One student, however, hated the course because 697 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: he did not like delivered truths. Curious, I attended me 698 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: of Jordan's lectures to see for myself. Remarkably, the fifty 699 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: students always showed up at nine am and were held 700 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: in rapt attention for an hour. Jordan was a captivating lecturer, 701 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 1: electric and eclectic, cherry picking from neuroscience, mythology, psychology, philosophy, 702 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: the Bible, and popular culture. The class loved him, but 703 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: as reported by that astute student, Jordan presented conjecture as 704 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: statement of fact. I expressed my concern to him about 705 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: this a number of times, and each time Jordan agreed. 706 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 1: He acknowledged the danger of such practices, but then continued 707 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: to do it again and again, as if he could 708 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: not control himself. He was a preacher more than a teacher. 709 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm mm hmmm mm hmm. Yeah, I mean he's 710 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: like that's uh dead on. Um. When you watch one 711 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: of his lectures, it does seem like that, Like yeah, 712 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: like I said it earlier, it's less speeches, less lectures, 713 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: it's more sermons. Um. Yep, he does uh and yeah, 714 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: choosing the everything. He looks at everything, and he just 715 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: like sort of picks what fits what he wants to 716 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: say is true and then puts them all together and 717 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: and pushes that idea. Um. It's like really easily to 718 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: still down to the lobster example. I think, um, where 719 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: he's like, oh, yeah, the world should be like this 720 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: because of over here. Um. But does it a lot 721 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: with like yeah, taking like this religious thing and then 722 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: this this biological thing and then this thing from pop 723 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: culture and then just tells you the way things are, 724 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: the way things are yep, and should be it should be. 725 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: It's you know, one of the things I think that 726 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: happens with Peterson, And I think it's I I see 727 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: it in myself and have to fight against it regularly. 728 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: If you grow up believing one thing and then make 729 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: a complete or one eighty degree turn to something else 730 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: as a young adult, there's a tendency that you have 731 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: to fight against to believe. Well, maybe I don't have 732 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: to question the things I believe now because I already questioned, 733 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: Like I already overturned my entire belief system so clearly, 734 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: like I found truth. And that can lead you to 735 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,479 Speaker 1: cherry pick things that only confirm the things that you've 736 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: come to believe, when when the reality is and no 737 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: one's perfect at this right, Like, and we all choose 738 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: to not examine certain things just because you can't always 739 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: be examining every aspect of your beliefs because otherwise you 740 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: go fucking crazy. Sometimes you just would be like, yeah, 741 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's fine, Like, but you should always be 742 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: finding yourselves yourself challenged by things, which is is different 743 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 1: from saying everybody needs to be debating about things, because 744 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: some things should be debated, um, but you should always 745 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: be like seeking out things that like challenge or complicate 746 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: your understanding of the world, um, because the world's complicated. Um. Anyway, 747 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: So whether or not Preacher is a fair description. Jordan 748 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: grew obsessed with belief, in particularly why people believe things, 749 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: and most particularly like why people who had supported terrible regimes, 750 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: fascist and communist, totalitary and regimes that killed a lot 751 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: of people, why they believed so strongly in the things 752 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: that they were doing. Um, which is obviously, like I think, 753 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: is a great thing to to to investigate. That's my 754 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: whole life, to draw people to authoritarian exactly. Uh. In 755 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: nineteen nine he published his first book, Maps of Meaning, 756 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: a dense, six page academic treatise on the architecture of belief, 757 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: which is a great term. Um, he's a decent titler, 758 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: and yeah. Maps of Meaning shows a Cambellian fascination with 759 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: the hero myth and the things that cultures tend to 760 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: find heroic, as well as a great deal of younging 761 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: and interest in like a kind of sort of collective 762 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: racial un consciousness and the reoccurring influence of myth and 763 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: tradition in human society. The book also evinced an obsession 764 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: with the ideas of order and chaos. I'm going to 765 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 1: read a quote from it here. Terrible chaotic forces lurk 766 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: behind the facade of the normal world. These forces are 767 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: kept at bay by the maintenance of social order. The 768 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: reign of order is insufficient, however, because order itself becomes 769 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: overbearing in deadly if allowed unregulated or permanent expression. The 770 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: actions of the hero constitute an antidote to the deadly 771 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: forces of chaos and to the tyranny of order. The 772 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: hero creates order from chaos and reconstructs the order when 773 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: necessary that order, when necessary. His actions simultaneously ensure that 774 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: novelty remains tolerable and that security remains flexible. Maps of 775 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: Meaning Jordan B. Peterson. So Maps of Meaning includes some 776 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: fascinating insight into Jordan's own life and I'm gonna I'm 777 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 1: gonna quote from a write up in The New Yorker. Here, 778 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: Peterson has a way of making even the mildest pronouncement 779 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: sound like the dying declaration of a political prisoner. In 780 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: Maps of Meaning, he traces this sense of urgency to 781 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: a feeling of fraudulence that overcame him in college. When 782 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: he started to speak, he would hear a voice telling him, 783 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: you don't believe that. That isn't true. To word off 784 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: mental breakdown, he resolved not to say anything unless he 785 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: was sure he believed it this practice calmed the inner voice, 786 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: and in time it shaped his rhetorical style, which is 787 00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: forceful but careful. Yeah. I mean that's you can see him. 788 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: He's a he's very verbose, but he is a very 789 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: deliberate speaker. Yeah he is. He's a great speaker, like 790 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: just objectively, like I'm like you and I are both 791 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: people who talk for a living. Like, he's objectively good 792 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:17,839 Speaker 1: at public speaking, captivating. Yeah, absolutely make a great preacher. Yeah, 793 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: he would make a great preacher. Let's talk about that later. 794 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: So the book was well received by a number of 795 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: professional smart people. One reviewer I read, who was a psychologist, 796 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: if I think some sort had a hard time defining 797 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: Peterson's books a work of like sociology or psychology or 798 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: like neuroscience or whatever. But he recommended it to people, 799 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: and this was not a universal opinion. So I want 800 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: to note a lot of professional people in and around 801 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: Peterson's field think this is a great book. There's also 802 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: a sizeable number who disagree with that statement. Dr Paul Taggart, 803 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: a Canadian philosopher and cognitive scientist, wrote this about the 804 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: book in Psychology Today, its emphasis on religious myth and 805 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: heroic individuals provides a poor blueprint for understanding the origins 806 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: of totalitarianism and an even poorer guide to overcoming its evils. 807 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: Um and Dr Taggart described Maps of Meaning as murky 808 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: and the sense that it was dark and gloomy, with 809 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: frequent emphasis on suffering rather than on the joys of love, work, 810 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: and play. The book is also murky in the second sense, 811 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: which is like the sense of yeah, it's less meandering 812 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: and disjointed than its video than his videotape lectures. So yeahah, 813 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,959 Speaker 1: it's a little money kind of like, it's a little 814 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: hard to parse, it's hard to parson follow. People will 815 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: like it's very dense, it takes a lot of reading. 816 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: Some people say that because it's so brilliant, and some 817 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: people will be like, he could have cut a couple 818 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: of hundred pages out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now. Dr Taggart 819 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: condensed the book's main arguments into four points. Um and 820 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: these are what he thinks that Peterson is getting out 821 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: in the book, and he's smarter than I am. Uh. 822 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: Number one myths are culturally universal. Number two myths are 823 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: the psychological origin of morality. Number three myths are the 824 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: philosophical basis for morality and number four, myth based morality 825 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: grounds political judgments about salitarian states. UM. So you can 826 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: see some things to argue with there and some things 827 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: like I would certainly agree that myth based morality grounds 828 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: political judgments about totalitarian states. UM. I would also say 829 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: that like, I don't think myths are the psychological origin 830 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: of morality or the philosophical basis for morality. I think 831 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: they do influence a lot of people's morality. I would 832 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: also disagree with the statement that their culturally universal, which 833 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: Dr Taggart will disagree with two. But we'll talk about 834 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: that in a bit later. Okay, Yeah, there's a lot 835 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: of because like it's just very like it's forceful and certain. 836 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: There's no yes, Like a lot of things that Jordan's 837 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: yea even are just like well okay that that kind 838 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: of relates to this, but it's not like a universal rule. 839 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: It's not the way the world is. Yeah, He's often 840 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: seems like he's trying to create a religion or like 841 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 1: create like a worldview it explains everything, and he's basing 842 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: it on these myths, and he's basing it on a 843 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: specific subset of myths from a specific chunk of the 844 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: world that happens to be the chunk of the world 845 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: he's familiar with, ignoring all of the different myths and 846 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: cultures that actually disagree with a lot of what he's saying, 847 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: and then just saying no, every culture basically believes this stuff. 848 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: Yeah culture, even though he doesn't. Yeah. Now, it's perhaps 849 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: not surprising that, according to Professor Schiff, who's again the 850 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: guy his meant, his old mentor who came to worry 851 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, very much about his influence. It's it's perhaps 852 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: not surprising that this guy, says, Peterson's personality grew more 853 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,919 Speaker 1: intense as the years grew by darker and angrier. Now. 854 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: Peterson's student reviews were always exceptional, and he earned a 855 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: position on the u f t's tenure track, but he 856 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: also showed peculiar signs of non academic ambitions. Jordan's started 857 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: a clinical practice, which is fine, but his experiences there 858 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: inspired him to create a series of neuropsychological tests, basically 859 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: personality tests to predict academic and corporate performance. This led 860 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: him to create a product called the Self Authoring Suite, 861 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 1: an online self help program that he sold access to. 862 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: Toronto Life notes that the program was quote designed to 863 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: walk participants through creating a sort of many autobiography than 864 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: writing what they want their futures to be. Like Tammy, 865 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: his wife served as a guinea pig. I outlined eight 866 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,760 Speaker 1: goals that I had no idea I was going to outline, 867 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: she says. But it puts you in a dream state, 868 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: and when you write your goals they come from somewhere 869 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: inside you that you hadn't scripted. I told him this 870 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: would be the most important thing he ever did. That's 871 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 1: a little weird, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, well again, it's 872 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: the mysticism, it's the spirituality. It's like the the deeper 873 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: stuff than seems. Yeah, it can't be as simple as 874 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: like yeah, no, you know, outlining your goals and talking, 875 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, outlining some aspects of your past and thinking 876 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: about what you want your future to be can be 877 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: helpful if you're kind of in like a confused or 878 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: a modeled state. No, no, you're in a dream state 879 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: and something inside you comes up like okay, yeah, it's 880 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: like yeah, you talked to the universe. It's like, well, no, 881 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: you just like you assess your life and you try 882 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: to get like we all do it right, Like I 883 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,800 Speaker 1: do it When I'm running like a couple of times 884 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: a week. I don't go into a dream state, like 885 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: it is helpful to like cut out distractions and like. 886 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: But anyway, whatever. Peterson says that about ten thousand students 887 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: have gone through this program, that it decreased dropout rates 888 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: by and raised g p as by. I've seen no 889 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,760 Speaker 1: verification of these numbers outside of Jordan's b Peterson himself. 890 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,839 Speaker 1: Uh and as far as I'm aware, he never put 891 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: his self authoring sweet up to any kind of rigorous 892 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: outside testing. I will say that an awful lot of 893 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,839 Speaker 1: people who have used it rave about it. You can 894 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: find tons of very positive reviews, and in fact it's 895 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: hard to find negative ones, probably because the kind of 896 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: people who buy it are people who are already into 897 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: what Jordan be Peterson has to say. But that's said, 898 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people say it's great. Um. One customer 899 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,920 Speaker 1: wrote that in her view, the program allowed you to 900 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: identify the different personalities within yourself that often conflicted and 901 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: to integrate them into a new and better person, which 902 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 1: I do found a little worrying because a lot of 903 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: scientology and also if you watch the new show about Nexium, 904 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: the Keith rawneeri cult, who we also did episodes on 905 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: and talk a lot about integrations. Anyway, I always find 906 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: that a little weird, but it was it Also, it 907 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 1: only costs like fifteen bucks, so I would not want 908 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: to be like saying that he was doing same thing 909 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: scientology was doing because it seems like a pretty affordable thing. Yeah, 910 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,919 Speaker 1: but that does that always strikes me a little weird. 911 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,839 Speaker 1: Um And I found another review on a site called 912 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: the Deep Dish that explains the attitude uh Joson's fifteen 913 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: dollar course conveys. And this is by someone who took it. Quote, 914 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: when the oxygen mask drops down on an airplane, you 915 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: better fasten yours before you try to be a hero, 916 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: because people who have passed out from hypoxia are not 917 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: known for being particularly useful. We've all heard the safety 918 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,360 Speaker 1: breathing so many times that it bores us to tears, 919 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,800 Speaker 1: but we don't always apply this principle to life. More broadly, 920 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: if you want to do good in the world, you 921 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: have to put your own house in order first. In 922 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: his clinical practice, Peterson has observed that many people don't 923 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: actually have psychological problems, they have problems in living. That's 924 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: a meaningless statement, like a completely meaningless statement. But I 925 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:47,880 Speaker 1: do want to get into what this guy says about 926 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: like oxygen masks, because obviously, yes, if if if your 927 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: plane depressurizes, you should put on your own oxygen mask 928 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: first because you will be unconscious and unable to help people. 929 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: But I think generalizing this because this is a big 930 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: thing readers and says you have to fix yourself before 931 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: you help other people, and I disagree with that profoundly, 932 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: um and I think that a better comparison would be 933 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: to think like an e m T thing. So if 934 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: you arrive on the seamen as an emergency in the 935 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: as an e MT, and they'll tell you this in training, 936 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: your first priority is your own safety, not because you 937 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: matter more than anyone else because but because if you 938 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: get hurt, then all you've done is make the problem worse. 939 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: And what that means it doesn't mean you don't help, 940 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 1: but it does mean that, like, oh, there's a car 941 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: crash that involved a power line, I need to make 942 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: sure that I'm not going to like get electrocuted, Like 943 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: I need to make sure this is actually safe for 944 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: me to enter, Otherwise I'm making the situation worse. But 945 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: my goal is still to get in there and help people. 946 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,560 Speaker 1: I just have to make certain that I am physically 947 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,279 Speaker 1: say first that I'm not making the problem worse. But 948 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: the whole thing I'm doing is attempting to actually provide 949 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,880 Speaker 1: aid to people. Right, Um, anyway, I think that's a 950 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: more useful Yeah, it's his game, It's what I mean. 951 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 1: This reductive is called his game. But like that's that analogy. 952 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 1: He takes these situations and these analogies and these these 953 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,959 Speaker 1: little examples and then uh says that this is how 954 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: all of society is. Um. And that's like really a 955 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: huge leap and pretty irresponsible. It's it's the lobster thing. Um. 956 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: But also like I don't know if you if you're 957 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: a person who's like, uh, what if everybody was able 958 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 1: to go to the doctor, um having to pay like 959 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,760 Speaker 1: copas and premiums and all that bullshit. Um, that doesn't 960 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 1: mean that the person suggesting that needs to live a 961 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,560 Speaker 1: perfect life and have all their problems fixed out that 962 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: like this this example is uh so wrong and misleading. 963 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,360 Speaker 1: It's uh and and it things like that UH point 964 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 1: me more towards like, oh, well that's insidious. What he's 965 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,359 Speaker 1: doing is insidious, and it would be one thing if 966 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,440 Speaker 1: he was like, there's different kinds of emergencies. Some of 967 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: them are like you know, when an airplane depressurizes and 968 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: you have to take care of yourself first otherwise you'll 969 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: be unconscious. Other others are like a fire in a house, 970 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,320 Speaker 1: and if you're a firefighter, you might have to endanger 971 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: yourself in order to do your job, because that's sometimes 972 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,239 Speaker 1: what we do. And like, yeah, it's but no, it's 973 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: it's kind of a microcosm of the way he thinks, 974 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: which is like find one like kind of one example 975 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 1: that if you deliver it well in a speech, will 976 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: sound really compelling to people because you're comparing it to 977 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 1: something in the real world. Um, but like if you 978 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: think about it for more than a couple of seconds, 979 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,120 Speaker 1: realized like, well, that actually can't be generalized anything. So 980 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: you can't you can't like try to improve society unless 981 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: you're perfect, which is impossible. Like who who can claim that, yeah, 982 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 1: that they that they are they have nothing left to 983 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: work on with themselves or anything like that. It's like 984 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: come on, man, Yeah. So in this course this self authoring, 985 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,920 Speaker 1: sweet Peterson explains that his time as a clinical psychologist 986 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,160 Speaker 1: has taught him to start client sessions by asking a 987 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 1: series of questions about a patient's family, physical health, friends, 988 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 1: drug use, etcetera. If his clients are having issues in 989 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,760 Speaker 1: any of these key areas, they cannot be thriving psychologically. 990 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: This is the origin of his famous clean your Room line. 991 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: And obviously it's not bad advice to tell people to 992 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,840 Speaker 1: take care of themselves. You should take care of yourself, 993 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,239 Speaker 1: but Jordan, being Jordan's, he immediately takes things beyond simple 994 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,360 Speaker 1: self care. The self authoring suite represents the first salvo 995 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: and what I think we could call Jordan Peterson's War 996 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: on Chaos quote. The way Peterson sees it, there's a 997 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,960 Speaker 1: constant struggle between chaos and order within society and within 998 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: each individual. Even if you don't believe this literally, it's 999 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: a useful metaphor. To make yourself strong and focused. You 1000 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: have to do battle with the dragons of chaos. Of course, 1001 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,800 Speaker 1: dragons are big and scary, so you better start out small. 1002 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,239 Speaker 1: Peterson talks a lot about fighting dragons, and he does 1003 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: actually will sometimes say like, no, I'm speaking pretty literally. 1004 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, his his some of his diagrams in that 1005 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:47,279 Speaker 1: book are something too. Yeah. So the way Peterson frames things, though, 1006 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: is very seems very reasonable. If your life feels out 1007 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 1: of control, you focus fixed first on taking care of small, 1008 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: immediate needs and goals, and this build your confidence and 1009 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 1: it will help you you deal with larger and larger 1010 00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: things and help you order your own minds that you 1011 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: can accomplish greater tasks. Nothing sinister in that. In fact, 1012 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: I'd say it's good advice, um. But the focus on 1013 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: chaos and on life is a constant battle between ordering chaos. 1014 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,279 Speaker 1: That seems kind of sinister to me, especially given what 1015 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,879 Speaker 1: Jordan B. Peterson thinks about chaos, because in his mind, 1016 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: it is an inherently feminine trait see New York Times. 1017 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,360 Speaker 1: Writer Nellie Bowles talked to Jordan about this during a 1018 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,279 Speaker 1: deep and very good profile she wrote on The Man, 1019 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: a very funny profile because I think Nelly has his number, 1020 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,839 Speaker 1: And when she questioned him about chaos being a feminine trait, 1021 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: he responded, you know, you can say, well, isn't it 1022 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 1: unfortunate that chaos is represented by the feminine? Well, it 1023 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 1: might be unfortunate, but it doesn't matter because that's how 1024 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,520 Speaker 1: it's represented. It's been represented like that forever, and there 1025 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 1: are reasons for it. You can't change it. It's not possible. 1026 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: This is underneath everything, and if you change those basic categories, 1027 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,520 Speaker 1: people wouldn't be human anymore. They'd be something else, they'd 1028 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,319 Speaker 1: be trans human or something. We wouldn't be able to 1029 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,400 Speaker 1: talk to these new creatures, to which I say, a 1030 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,680 Speaker 1: lot of people used to worship volcanoes Jordans. We don't 1031 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: really do that so much anymore. Now. We're like, they're wrong, explosive, 1032 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: and we should get away when they like unbelievable, and 1033 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,319 Speaker 1: like also like look at society. How it's like, why 1034 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,319 Speaker 1: do you think that women are categorized like that? In 1035 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,320 Speaker 1: your mind? Who is who becoming? The Goddess of Discord 1036 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,760 Speaker 1: was heiress and therefore chaos is always feminine? Yeah, right, Like, uh, 1037 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,239 Speaker 1: like men are order and women are chaos. Women have 1038 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 1: a regular menstrual cycle, that's pretty funny, ordered, uh, whereas 1039 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,799 Speaker 1: men were largely responsible for the partitioning of Poland, which 1040 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: was pretty chaotic. Chaotic. There's just like so many examples, 1041 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,360 Speaker 1: and like you can look and like this is Jordan's 1042 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,600 Speaker 1: game that he won't let anybody else play. I can 1043 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,960 Speaker 1: look at lobsters and say, lobsters do this because of 1044 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,200 Speaker 1: the resources. Therefore, society has to be measured like that. 1045 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: I can point to women menstruating uh and be like, no, 1046 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: women are order, you fucking dumb ship, and he like, yeah, 1047 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: he can't. He can't uh fathom that because in his 1048 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,759 Speaker 1: mind there's no nuance unless it's him. I don't know. 1049 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. What a weird frustrating man. Do you 1050 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:06,200 Speaker 1: want to know what's not frustrating Cody though, I yes, 1051 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,759 Speaker 1: I would like to know that. Actually, is this fantastic 1052 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: transition to ads that Robert's about to do. Robert, yeah, 1053 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,880 Speaker 1: oh wow. I'm sad I liked it. I did not. 1054 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:31,280 Speaker 1: We're bad before we move on. I was just quoting 1055 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: from that Nellie Bowels um uh New York Times article, 1056 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: and I think it's really funny um because there's lines 1057 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,960 Speaker 1: in it like Marxism is resurgent. Mr Peterson says, looking 1058 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 1: ashen and stricken, I say, it seems unnecessarily stressful to 1059 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: live like this, He tells me. Life is stressful, like 1060 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: she she her interpretation seems to be like you are 1061 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,880 Speaker 1: deeply miserable, and it's because of these horrible things you 1062 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 1: believe and you seem they don't seem to be making 1063 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: you happy. And Jordan B. Peterson is incapable of understanding 1064 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,840 Speaker 1: or taking seriously what she's saying because she's a woman 1065 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 1: and that's an agent of case beautiful. It's frustratingly beautiful. Um, yeah, 1066 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,440 Speaker 1: you don't have to be this stressed out, Mr Peterson. 1067 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,359 Speaker 1: This isn't it doesn't need to be your life. He 1068 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,560 Speaker 1: can he considered one of his big issues is that 1069 00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,440 Speaker 1: he thinks that I'm the current guy in trage of 1070 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,840 Speaker 1: Canada is basically like a quasi Marxist. It's like, actually, 1071 00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: if you look at it, Canada is basically one gigantic 1072 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,600 Speaker 1: mining and natural gas company with like a social safetiness 1073 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,400 Speaker 1: strap to it so that people don't notice that it 1074 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: exists primarily to extract resources from the world. Um, it's 1075 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,560 Speaker 1: the furthest thing from marxis impossible. It just has a 1076 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,319 Speaker 1: good health care system. But like, let's not Yeah, also 1077 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:50,920 Speaker 1: like Peterson is not going to get it on that, 1078 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,399 Speaker 1: Mr Mr Bumblebee, I I gotta I gotta point out 1079 00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,640 Speaker 1: also like his whole thing of like if you change this, 1080 00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,279 Speaker 1: if you change that, what is it is? It? Is? It? 1081 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: Is it? Now? You're a trans human or what it's like, well, 1082 00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,160 Speaker 1: you're you're you're like you're what you're doing is you're 1083 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:12,680 Speaker 1: fighting against the idea of evolution like like did like 1084 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,359 Speaker 1: when when humans got to where we are, was that like, oh, 1085 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,920 Speaker 1: you did it, You're perfect. Never change never, never move 1086 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,920 Speaker 1: on from this. And I don't think you would say 1087 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,000 Speaker 1: that the realities if you were to take like anyone 1088 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: from five years ago and put them in the modern world, 1089 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,320 Speaker 1: they would probably die of an embolism, shrieking in horror 1090 00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,760 Speaker 1: at the sight of concrete, like just because the amount 1091 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: of it would be so baffling to their fucking brains. 1092 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:36,920 Speaker 1: It would like the world would make no sense, the 1093 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,440 Speaker 1: error would taste different. Yeah, they wouldn't be able to 1094 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,520 Speaker 1: understand people speaking what is essentially their language because our 1095 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,520 Speaker 1: idioms have changed so much, Like it would be a 1096 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,520 Speaker 1: nightmare for them, because people are changed deeply every couple 1097 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,360 Speaker 1: of generation. Culture changes constantly, and like like deal with 1098 00:57:54,440 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: describing is like fucking baby, yeah yeah, so yeah, uh 1099 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 1: it's good stuff. Um. Now, when one reads a lot 1100 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,600 Speaker 1: of Peterson's interviews, they get the sense that Jordan's spent 1101 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: the bulk of his career studying humanity for tips on 1102 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,120 Speaker 1: how to reach and influence people. I don't know the 1103 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,439 Speaker 1: degree to which this was a conscious choice that he made, 1104 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: but he did it. And in his second book, which 1105 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,640 Speaker 1: will discuss later, Peterson writes that during his time as 1106 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,600 Speaker 1: a psychologist, he worked with a client diagnosed with paranoia. 1107 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,760 Speaker 1: He learned that paranoid patients were quote almost uncanny in 1108 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,920 Speaker 1: their ability to detect mixed motives, judgment, and falsehood. This 1109 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: inspired him to become even more committed to saying only 1110 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 1: what he meant. You have to listen very carefully and 1111 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:33,720 Speaker 1: to tell the truth if you're going to get a 1112 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,840 Speaker 1: paranoid person to open up to you. He quickly realized 1113 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,000 Speaker 1: that this basic tactic worked on the broader population, which 1114 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,240 Speaker 1: helps explain why so many of his students treated him 1115 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 1: like a preacher. Over years and years of rigorously studying belief, 1116 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,040 Speaker 1: he got good at making people believe what he said. 1117 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 1: Um Now, outside of work, in his own life, Jordan's 1118 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 1: home came to showcase a growing fascination with authoritarianism. He 1119 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,960 Speaker 1: collected Soviet and Communist propaganda and he covered his walls 1120 00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,560 Speaker 1: with it to an extent that I think even the 1121 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,000 Speaker 1: most dead a cadd communists I know would find weird. 1122 00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,680 Speaker 1: Like it's so weird. The amount there is so weird. 1123 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,280 Speaker 1: It's too much of any decoration to be Yeah, it's 1124 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,840 Speaker 1: a and like that's you know, and he's the kind 1125 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,480 Speaker 1: of guy who'd like you'd think would be like, oh, well, 1126 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: your environment affects like your mood and things like that, 1127 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:20,040 Speaker 1: and like how do you live in that space? It's 1128 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,760 Speaker 1: so all of your walls are men shooting each other 1129 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,520 Speaker 1: and hoisting red flags, like of course you think Marxism 1130 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,320 Speaker 1: is coming for Yeah, it's wild. And also like just 1131 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,160 Speaker 1: like the motive behind doing that. It's like if you're interesting, 1132 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,480 Speaker 1: if you're like fascinated by like the history of Nazism 1133 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,439 Speaker 1: because you want to like find out what they think 1134 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,080 Speaker 1: and like fight it. If you want to fight. You're 1135 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,880 Speaker 1: not like me, right, You're not gonna put Nazi ship everywhere. 1136 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,880 Speaker 1: I have no Nazi propaganda on my walls, Cody, Yeah, 1137 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 1: that's normal that I'm glad. Like I do have one 1138 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 1: reproduction wer Mocht coat because it's a solid coat, but 1139 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,800 Speaker 1: I only wear it when I'm hiking alone. Anyway, it's 1140 00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,680 Speaker 1: a good coat. Look, I'm not gonna sucking the coats. 1141 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Not the problem. Nobody hates the Nazis because their coats 1142 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,840 Speaker 1: were good. Yeah, there was a problem. Doesn't have a 1143 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,760 Speaker 1: squat stick on it. It's just a coat anyway. So uh. 1144 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,720 Speaker 1: Peterson grew increasingly also, like during this kind of period 1145 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,440 Speaker 1: where he's becoming darker and more weird and radical, Professor 1146 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,920 Speaker 1: Schift notes that he grew increasingly interested in fringe health treatments. Quote. 1147 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: He was preoccupied with alternative health treatments, including fighting off 1148 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: the signs of aging as they appear on the skin, 1149 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: and one time even shamanic healing practices, where, to my 1150 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: great surprise and distress, he chose to be the shame 1151 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,880 Speaker 1: in himself. He did all of that with the same 1152 01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:40,160 Speaker 1: great fervor and commitments appropriative. I don't know, you know. Uh. 1153 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,320 Speaker 1: Dr Peterson also struggled with depression. Now this has been 1154 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: a lifelong battle for him, dating back to his youthful 1155 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,360 Speaker 1: nightmares about atomic annihilation. But despite growing wiser and more successful, 1156 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,760 Speaker 1: and despite his supportive family and his insights into the 1157 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 1: human mind, he could not rest his mind away from darkness. 1158 01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,800 Speaker 1: He described it as like being impaled quote by a dead, 1159 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: black and frozen tree. Now we don't have tremendous detail 1160 01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,240 Speaker 1: about his family life, but however, this impacted his behavior. 1161 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,520 Speaker 1: His wife eventually threatened to leave him if he didn't 1162 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,800 Speaker 1: take antidepressants, and he eventually agreed to do so. Um, 1163 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,600 Speaker 1: so it must have been pretty He must have been 1164 01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:20,640 Speaker 1: pretty unpleasant to be around. Sounds sounds it sounds. Yeah, 1165 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,520 Speaker 1: he's already intense, Like he's already pretty pretty difficult to 1166 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,160 Speaker 1: hang with. Yeah, so the pills came with side effects. 1167 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,920 Speaker 1: Jordan felt sluggish. He found himself collapsing into sleep for 1168 01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,240 Speaker 1: hours at a time. Somehow, he still managed to keep 1169 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: up his prodigious rate of productivity, but the demons in 1170 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: his head seemed to have a noteworthy impact on his personality. 1171 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,000 Speaker 1: Professor Schiff writes that as the years went on, quote, 1172 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,160 Speaker 1: his interest in political issues became more apparent. We disagreed 1173 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,160 Speaker 1: about most things, but I don't ask of my friends 1174 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,720 Speaker 1: that we agree. What was off putting was his tendency 1175 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: to be categorical about his positions, reminiscent of his lectures 1176 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 1: where he presented personal theories as absolute truths. I really 1177 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,760 Speaker 1: challenged him. He overwhelmed challenges with volumes of information that 1178 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,600 Speaker 1: we're hard to process and evaluate. He was more forceful 1179 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: than I and he had a much quicker mind, also 1180 01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,280 Speaker 1: again evocative of what I saw in the classroom. He 1181 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,800 Speaker 1: sometimes appeared to be in the thrall of his ideas 1182 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,760 Speaker 1: and would not or could not constrain himself and self 1183 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: monitor what he was saying. Yeah, I mean I was 1184 01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:20,080 Speaker 1: right for a professor. Yeah, I'm gonna say not great 1185 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:24,000 Speaker 1: for a priest either. And that's not just like not great, yeah, 1186 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 1: just not great. Uh. Now. The chief political the chief 1187 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,160 Speaker 1: political issue that came to increasingly dominate Jordan Peterson's life 1188 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,600 Speaker 1: and concern was the idea and a fear about political correctness. 1189 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:37,600 Speaker 1: This seems to have started with one of his clients 1190 01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,920 Speaker 1: that his his psychology practice who had gotten in trouble 1191 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: at work over her resistance to political correctness. Talk at work, 1192 01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,600 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna uote from the New York Times here 1193 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,360 Speaker 1: he says one patient had to be part of a 1194 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,120 Speaker 1: long email chain over whether the term flip chart could 1195 01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:51,920 Speaker 1: be used in the workplace, since the word flip is 1196 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,200 Speaker 1: a pejorative for Filipino. She had a radical left boss 1197 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: who was really concerned with equality and equality of outcome 1198 01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: and all these things, and diversity and inclusivity and all 1199 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: the buzzwords and she was subjected to She sent me 1200 01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,920 Speaker 1: the email chain thirty emails about whether or not the 1201 01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 1: flip chart was acceptable. Mr Peterson says, so he was radicalized. 1202 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: He says, because the radical left wants to eliminate hierarchies, 1203 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,960 Speaker 1: which he says are the natural order of the world. 1204 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,440 Speaker 1: It's a bit of a jump from I'll grant you 1205 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,880 Speaker 1: that's people are like concerned about calling something a flip 1206 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,720 Speaker 1: chart kind of dumb because the word flip has a 1207 01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:22,520 Speaker 1: long series of meanings that have nothing to do with 1208 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:27,280 Speaker 1: racism towards Filipinos. If it were like yeah, like whatever, yes, yes, 1209 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,120 Speaker 1: that's there are other examples, uh that I won't say 1210 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,800 Speaker 1: because we're not I'm not gonna say that. Um, but 1211 01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,680 Speaker 1: like it's it's just a term. It's a word. It's 1212 01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:41,400 Speaker 1: got many, many meanings. And to jump from that silly, 1213 01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 1: like arguably silly thing to the Marxists are trying to 1214 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,440 Speaker 1: like destabilize the world and like all of his all 1215 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,360 Speaker 1: stuff is like come on, man, yeah, and the idea, 1216 01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I actually do want to eliminate hierarchies, but 1217 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,680 Speaker 1: just the idea that because like you're maybe over concerned about, 1218 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,560 Speaker 1: uh whether or not a specific term is offensive means 1219 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 1: that you want to eliminate all hierarchies, like I'm gonna 1220 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,040 Speaker 1: guarantee you whatever. Person like this radical left boss was 1221 01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,600 Speaker 1: actually probably like more or less a Democrat who really 1222 01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: supported a hierarchical Democratic party and stuff and was just 1223 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:23,000 Speaker 1: overly worried about police. Also, like he's talked about it's 1224 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if we're gonna get into this more, 1225 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:29,000 Speaker 1: but like he has talked about feeling boxed in, and 1226 01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 1: like I believe the qutea is like I said, you know, 1227 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,320 Speaker 1: everyone sort of claims that I'm some sort of right winger, 1228 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,640 Speaker 1: but it couldn't BeO farthest from the truth. He denies 1229 01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 1: that he's like right wing um, but his his primary 1230 01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,360 Speaker 1: thing is being obsessed with hierarchies and reinforcing those hierarchies. 1231 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: That's like the definition of it. Yeah, that's the thing 1232 01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,760 Speaker 1: he loves most. It's like definitely definitionally, like that's what 1233 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,240 Speaker 1: that's your right wing? Is it? Stuff like that. Whenever 1234 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:54,960 Speaker 1: hear stuff like that, like prings me' is like, oh, 1235 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: you're you're just lying. Yeah, you're too You're too smart 1236 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,360 Speaker 1: to not know that. That's ridiculous. Well, and we'll talk 1237 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,000 Speaker 1: about it, because he he has a lot of vested 1238 01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: interest in defining himself as someone who's in like the middle, 1239 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,600 Speaker 1: even though he's again very right wing. And there's a 1240 01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: reason he's doing that, classical liberal. I'm sure, Oh yes, yeah. 1241 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,280 Speaker 1: So in two thousand and fourteen, Dr Peterson took his 1242 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,960 Speaker 1: growing frustration with political correctness and finally applied his famous 1243 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,840 Speaker 1: academic rigor to the issue. He carried out a study 1244 01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:27,120 Speaker 1: which he conducted with graduate student Christine Brophy, who we 1245 01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,320 Speaker 1: heard from a little earlier. Um and this study was 1246 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,600 Speaker 1: initially about the relationship between political belief and personality. It turned, however, 1247 01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,880 Speaker 1: into a study of so called politically correct people. Peterson 1248 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,280 Speaker 1: and Brophy developed a list of two hundred statements from 1249 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,680 Speaker 1: safe spaces are necessary to promote diversity of perspective and 1250 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,080 Speaker 1: feathered headdresses should be banned at music festivals to police 1251 01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:49,960 Speaker 1: brutality is racial in nature. Now they use these questions 1252 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,120 Speaker 1: to develop a questionnaire they could use to quiz people 1253 01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,160 Speaker 1: about how much they agreed with each statement. They questioned 1254 01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,960 Speaker 1: two groups of people, eventually totally more respondents. According to 1255 01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,320 Speaker 1: Toronto Life, Peterson and Brophy can included that political correctness 1256 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,200 Speaker 1: exists in two forms, which they call PC egalitarianism and 1257 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:08,320 Speaker 1: PC authoritarianism. Simply put, PC egalitarians are classic liberals who 1258 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,960 Speaker 1: advocate for more democratic governance and equality. PC authoritarians are 1259 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,840 Speaker 1: According to Brophy, the ones now relabeled as social justice warriors, 1260 01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,720 Speaker 1: both share a high degree of compassion. Extreme compassion, they 1261 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,400 Speaker 1: believe can lead to difficulty assessing right from wrong. It 1262 01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,960 Speaker 1: can also mean the forgiveness of all failures and transgressions 1263 01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 1: by people viewed as vulnerable any personality trait to an 1264 01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:32,600 Speaker 1: extreme as pathological Prophy says. Now, I'm not a psychologist, 1265 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,160 Speaker 1: but I do have some issues with some of the 1266 01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,320 Speaker 1: questions that they're listing here. For example, safe spaces are 1267 01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,440 Speaker 1: necessary to promote diversity of perspective. I don't know that 1268 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,560 Speaker 1: I would agree to any particular level with that. I 1269 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,520 Speaker 1: would say that if if people. What I would say is, 1270 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,000 Speaker 1: if people feel like they need safe spaces in a 1271 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,360 Speaker 1: school for whatever reason, I'm fine with them having that, uh, 1272 01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 1: and and that if they find it valuable, sure, like 1273 01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,440 Speaker 1: why not? And I think most people are kind of 1274 01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,600 Speaker 1: in that. I don't think most people who don't have 1275 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,560 Speaker 1: an issue with like the idea of a safe space 1276 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,320 Speaker 1: on campus, would say they're necessary to promote diversity of perspective. 1277 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,240 Speaker 1: They'd say, oh yeah, people need that. Why not, like 1278 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:07,880 Speaker 1: it's putting the room in the campus. Yeah, let's have 1279 01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,560 Speaker 1: a Yeah, things like I feel safe talking about a 1280 01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,880 Speaker 1: thing and there doesn't seem to be any sort of 1281 01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,400 Speaker 1: room for that in in the quit Like it seems 1282 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,640 Speaker 1: like the questionnaire is kind of designed to get people 1283 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,520 Speaker 1: to respond in an authoritarian way, like feathered head dresses 1284 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,280 Speaker 1: should be banned at music festivals? Should they be banned? 1285 01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say they should be banned. Is it fucked 1286 01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,200 Speaker 1: up for like like white kids to like wear Native 1287 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,400 Speaker 1: American head dresses? Oh? Yeah, that's that's messed up. They 1288 01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,360 Speaker 1: shouldn't do that. Banned Yeah, music, Like I'm not gonna 1289 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,400 Speaker 1: say that. Like the second thing will not Yeah, most 1290 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,400 Speaker 1: will not be like oh yeah, banned them, banned them everywhere? 1291 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,480 Speaker 1: That is that is written to elicit the kind of 1292 01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,120 Speaker 1: result that he wants. And like, I spend a lot 1293 01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,120 Speaker 1: of time reading, especially on Twitter, like indigenous folks talking 1294 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,080 Speaker 1: about stuff like this and why they find it offensive, 1295 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:51,520 Speaker 1: and all of them are saying like yeah, or like 1296 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,480 Speaker 1: they tend to be saying like, don't do this, it's 1297 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,280 Speaker 1: messed up. They're not saying it should be you should 1298 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,840 Speaker 1: get kicked out of a music festival. We need to 1299 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,840 Speaker 1: write at that and like that. Yeah, they're trying to explain, 1300 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,680 Speaker 1: like why it's offensive, which is different from saying bandon 1301 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:09,440 Speaker 1: at music festivals. Um, it's explaining these things and like 1302 01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,720 Speaker 1: why why why do people want to say space? Why 1303 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,160 Speaker 1: do that? Why do is this? What is this not 1304 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,480 Speaker 1: saying like we need to write laws to require them, 1305 01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,000 Speaker 1: or like we need to plan X or why. Um, 1306 01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:22,360 Speaker 1: it's also it's explained to people why this is messed up? Yeah. Yeah. 1307 01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,760 Speaker 1: The quote about like the they have too much compassion 1308 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,719 Speaker 1: and like are prone too much to forgiveness or something? Yes, 1309 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,640 Speaker 1: well yeah, okay, that's a big WS were obsessed with 1310 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,240 Speaker 1: canceling people. Yeah. Yeah, We'll talk a lot about Jordan B. 1311 01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:39,120 Speaker 1: Peterson and what he thinks about compassion and how it's 1312 01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,519 Speaker 1: bad and how that might relate to some things other 1313 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,679 Speaker 1: groups of people have said in the past before doing 1314 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,479 Speaker 1: very bad things that Jordan B. Peterson claims to know 1315 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,840 Speaker 1: about and want to prevent. It's interesting relation between that hardness. Yeah. 1316 01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,479 Speaker 1: So the article goes on to note that, like most 1317 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: psychologists in his field, Dr Peterson believes there are five 1318 01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:02,800 Speaker 1: major personality traits extra version, agree bullness, openness, conscientiousness, and neuroticism. 1319 01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,519 Speaker 1: These traits are supposed to be universal across different cultures. 1320 01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,960 Speaker 1: All of this sounds problematic as hell and really dumb 1321 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,200 Speaker 1: to me. I'm not a psychologist. I have trouble believing 1322 01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,200 Speaker 1: that that's true because that all seems like fucking nonsense, 1323 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,000 Speaker 1: like that you can you can separate ship out like that, Like, 1324 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,519 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I don't like this stuff anyway. 1325 01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:20,519 Speaker 1: So maybe I'm just an idiot. But I think that 1326 01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,160 Speaker 1: sounds dumb as hell. If that's something all psychologists believe, 1327 01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:27,479 Speaker 1: maybe psychology is kind of stupid. Yeah, maybe it's kind 1328 01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,639 Speaker 1: of dumb. Um that said, yeah, I find a lot 1329 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,479 Speaker 1: of what's written about all this to be low key terrifying, 1330 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 1: like this quote from Toronto Life. These traits have both 1331 01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,599 Speaker 1: biological and cultural origins, and, as Peterson is fond of saying, 1332 01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,720 Speaker 1: the biological factors maximizing places like Scandinavia that have strenuously 1333 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,000 Speaker 1: tried to flatten out the cultural differences. Biology is therefore, 1334 01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,400 Speaker 1: in a sense destiny. No matter how much people may 1335 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:53,880 Speaker 1: want to deny it. Now, this is all a dressed 1336 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,679 Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying this is what I saw 1337 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,000 Speaker 1: a psychologists believe, because I don't think that's true. I 1338 01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,680 Speaker 1: think this is what George Peterson is. Yeah, I think 1339 01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,280 Speaker 1: he's a little outside the norm there. Yeah, this is 1340 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,759 Speaker 1: what Bell Curve motherfucker's believe. Um. And it's all dressed 1341 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,160 Speaker 1: up in pop psych terms and academic verbiage. But Peterson's 1342 01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:13,720 Speaker 1: right on the urge of arguing about biological essentialism. He 1343 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,760 Speaker 1: is arguing that this is the same strain of thought 1344 01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:17,519 Speaker 1: that leads to like the Bell Curve ship, where you 1345 01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,680 Speaker 1: talk about how Black Eye Q was inherently lower and 1346 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,599 Speaker 1: if you start talking about that ship, you wind up 1347 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,639 Speaker 1: having the kind of questions about whole races that lead 1348 01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,559 Speaker 1: to real bad things going down. Yeah, he's got tons 1349 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,559 Speaker 1: of stuff, Yeah, a lot of malling new kind of things. 1350 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:34,840 Speaker 1: And that's that's the thing that I think he's never 1351 01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,760 Speaker 1: really addressed of, Like if he doesn't dive this and 1352 01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,599 Speaker 1: this and this and this, what's the next thing? What's 1353 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,960 Speaker 1: the logical result to this way of thinking? He will 1354 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,840 Speaker 1: always say like no, no, no, Like I think people 1355 01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,920 Speaker 1: are like I don't think there's any intelligence difference, and 1356 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 1: like men and women and stuff like that. But like 1357 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,920 Speaker 1: then he will make arguments where like but this leads 1358 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,599 Speaker 1: you to a conclusion that's kind of different from the 1359 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,479 Speaker 1: thing that you're saying. Yeah, and like how to deal 1360 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,720 Speaker 1: with there's a Uh one of the worst things I 1361 01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,959 Speaker 1: think he talks about. It's about i Q and how 1362 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:14,800 Speaker 1: because the military doesn't let people in the military under 1363 01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:20,799 Speaker 1: a certain i Q that yea, that they cannot function 1364 01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,760 Speaker 1: in society. They cannot contribute to society because we don't 1365 01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:27,680 Speaker 1: let them in the military. Uh. And he said, so 1366 01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,080 Speaker 1: these two claims, he says, Therefore, that's the most horrifying 1367 01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:34,240 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard. Um. He doesn't go further than that. 1368 01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,920 Speaker 1: He hasn't explained why. But he talks about how if 1369 01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,120 Speaker 1: we if they can't contribute to society citation needed. Uh, 1370 01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,479 Speaker 1: and we can't pay them like universal basic income thing 1371 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:47,160 Speaker 1: like that doesn't work either again citation needed Therefore, and 1372 01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,679 Speaker 1: then trailing off, yeah, yeah, we need to gas them 1373 01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,640 Speaker 1: in trust, Like what do you do? What do you 1374 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,920 Speaker 1: do with these people? Um, it's just like these like 1375 01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,680 Speaker 1: X is true, even though it's not why it is 1376 01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,240 Speaker 1: even though it's not. Therefore you figure out the Z 1377 01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:04,960 Speaker 1: for yourself. It's clear, as with everything that Jordan Peterson 1378 01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:07,160 Speaker 1: is wrong about that he has no real experience with 1379 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,360 Speaker 1: people who have you know, what you would call like 1380 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,240 Speaker 1: I cues lower than that threshold. Again, I worked in 1381 01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:15,840 Speaker 1: this field. I worked with particularly a number of kids 1382 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,439 Speaker 1: with Down syndrome who would not have been able to 1383 01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:21,559 Speaker 1: join the military um, but also who were physically healthy 1384 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,599 Speaker 1: and who were perfectly capable of doing like we would 1385 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:25,880 Speaker 1: get them, would help them get jobs working in like 1386 01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,000 Speaker 1: like making sandwiches and stuff like that, and they could 1387 01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,479 Speaker 1: do things and they needed some help. They would live 1388 01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,759 Speaker 1: in like a semi independent assisted living sort of facility 1389 01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,200 Speaker 1: when they became adults, but they would do jobs, they 1390 01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:40,200 Speaker 1: would have friends, they would contribute to society. They're perfectly capable, 1391 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,280 Speaker 1: Like there are there are a very small number of 1392 01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:44,200 Speaker 1: people who because of a mix of like physical and 1393 01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,759 Speaker 1: mental you know, like stuff like can't like need pretty 1394 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:50,559 Speaker 1: much total help. Like I did work with some of 1395 01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,080 Speaker 1: those kids, but most of them. And part of the 1396 01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:55,880 Speaker 1: goal of like a good program helping those people is 1397 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,000 Speaker 1: to find a way for them to be a part 1398 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,960 Speaker 1: of society and be around and and live with and 1399 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,800 Speaker 1: contribute with everyone else. And because there's no reason that 1400 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,520 Speaker 1: they should. Yeah, exactly, use they can't join the enquirement 1401 01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,439 Speaker 1: on people of like either you contribute to society in 1402 01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,400 Speaker 1: the way that society has decided that you contribute to it, 1403 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,960 Speaker 1: or you're out. Um is also ridiculous. It's also but 1404 01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,160 Speaker 1: also saying that people need to have a job to 1405 01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,600 Speaker 1: contribute to society. But also like like comparing people like 1406 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,760 Speaker 1: you can't get into the military there for X and Y, 1407 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,439 Speaker 1: you know, wasn't allowed in the military. The president of 1408 01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:33,400 Speaker 1: the United States we had Yeah, um, and I don't 1409 01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,080 Speaker 1: see Peterson talking about how if you have bones spurs 1410 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,599 Speaker 1: and you can't you know, it's it's like everything he says, 1411 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,240 Speaker 1: it's just like a wild, disgusting sort of approach to 1412 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: how humans are. Yeah, I don't. I don't like it 1413 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:50,439 Speaker 1: now do Why So? In two thousands sixteen, Canada started 1414 01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,920 Speaker 1: to debate over a bil C sixteen that would expand 1415 01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,880 Speaker 1: the country's human rights law by adding gender identity and 1416 01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,120 Speaker 1: gender expression to the list of things employers in the 1417 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,479 Speaker 1: government can't The scrim it against this would have meant 1418 01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,760 Speaker 1: that college professors like Dr Peterson would have had to 1419 01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:07,680 Speaker 1: refer to non binary and trans students by their preferred pronouns. Now, 1420 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,120 Speaker 1: obviously this was just one aspect of the law, which 1421 01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,160 Speaker 1: would have also done stuff like, you know, help make 1422 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:17,200 Speaker 1: it harder to deny trans people apartments are like exactly, yeah, 1423 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:18,760 Speaker 1: all the things that you don't want people to be 1424 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,639 Speaker 1: discriminated for us so they can live their lives. Yes, 1425 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,120 Speaker 1: but to Dr Peterson, the thought that he might be 1426 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,080 Speaker 1: forced to refer to someone by their chosen pronoun um, 1427 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,599 Speaker 1: even if he didn't like that they'd chosen that pronoun 1428 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,240 Speaker 1: that's all that mattered. That's all this law was in it. 1429 01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,320 Speaker 1: Jordan's started recording YouTube videos outlining his resistance to the law. 1430 01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,000 Speaker 1: He attracted a following, and eventually a very massive one. 1431 01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:42,120 Speaker 1: He started engaging in highly publicized debates which his followers 1432 01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:46,200 Speaker 1: tended to see his him crushing and destroying his ideological enemies. 1433 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,880 Speaker 1: He argued that the bill was a serious infringement of 1434 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,240 Speaker 1: freedom of speech, and soon reached an audience of millions 1435 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,920 Speaker 1: of non Canadians. I'm not sure to what extent this 1436 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,840 Speaker 1: was purposeful, but Peterson's stand came at a perfect moment, 1437 01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,000 Speaker 1: as the simmering culture war between right and left in 1438 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,160 Speaker 1: the US started to reach a boil. Soon there were 1439 01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,280 Speaker 1: protests against Peterson. His supporters showed up to counter. There 1440 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,160 Speaker 1: were fights and arrests in media coverage, and you know, 1441 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,639 Speaker 1: we talked about George Lincoln Rockwell, like that's the best 1442 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:12,960 Speaker 1: thing for these kinds of people is media coverage and 1443 01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,519 Speaker 1: fights and stuff. So the dean of the University of 1444 01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,120 Speaker 1: Toronto st Peterson a letter saying that his refusal to 1445 01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:22,599 Speaker 1: use people's pronouns revealed discriminatory intentions, which I would argue 1446 01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:24,720 Speaker 1: was accurate. The letter went on to warn him that 1447 01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:27,320 Speaker 1: the impact of your behavior runs the risk of undermining 1448 01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,920 Speaker 1: your ability to conduct essential components of your job as 1449 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,519 Speaker 1: a faculty member. And like an educator, like like an educator, 1450 01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,639 Speaker 1: like you're educating people and someone's like, please my refer 1451 01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:39,439 Speaker 1: to me as she instead of he, And then he 1452 01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:43,760 Speaker 1: says he, that's like a hostile learning environment. Yeah, yeah, 1453 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,519 Speaker 1: you just being a dick. Which is not to say 1454 01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,479 Speaker 1: that kids shouldn't be challenged and like and and deal 1455 01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,200 Speaker 1: with ideas that are uncomfortable in school you want to, 1456 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:53,360 Speaker 1: but it also it does mean that like one of 1457 01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,880 Speaker 1: the basic things you should expect from a college is 1458 01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,600 Speaker 1: that they're not going to be shitty to you personally 1459 01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:02,120 Speaker 1: for no good reason, because that's bad and you shouldn't 1460 01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,360 Speaker 1: do that to students. It's not kind of makes you 1461 01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:06,559 Speaker 1: not want to go to the lecture anymore, makes you 1462 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,640 Speaker 1: not want to go to the lecture. It contributes to 1463 01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,200 Speaker 1: problems of suicidal nature. Like, it's just bad and it's 1464 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,840 Speaker 1: not justified. And if you like, you don't have an 1465 01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,439 Speaker 1: inherent right to be a teacher. If you're going to 1466 01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:19,439 Speaker 1: be a teacher, we have the right to say you 1467 01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:22,679 Speaker 1: shouldn't do certain things like hit on your students, even 1468 01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:25,599 Speaker 1: if you're both adults, because it's a college colleges, Like 1469 01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:27,679 Speaker 1: you have the right as an adult, as a thirty 1470 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,760 Speaker 1: five year old PhD. You have the right to date 1471 01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:32,400 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old absolutely legally, you have that right 1472 01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,000 Speaker 1: as a thirty five year old college professor. If you 1473 01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,519 Speaker 1: date a nineteen year old student, you will probably get 1474 01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,479 Speaker 1: in trouble because we've decided that makes for a bad 1475 01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:46,960 Speaker 1: learning environment. Makes sense, Yeah, yeah, I don't think he 1476 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,840 Speaker 1: would be okay, I mean he's got other issues with that, 1477 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,759 Speaker 1: but like that specific thing and keeping your door open 1478 01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:57,400 Speaker 1: when you have meetings with female students, and stuff. Yeah, 1479 01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:01,439 Speaker 1: but whatever, whatever, So Peterson ignored the dean. He took 1480 01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:03,840 Speaker 1: a sabbatical from work, and he started a Patreon where 1481 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,479 Speaker 1: his his new followers could pledge monthly payments in exchange 1482 01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:08,759 Speaker 1: for Q and A sessions, online courses, and even monthly 1483 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:10,559 Speaker 1: one on one counseling with a man himself. He was 1484 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,280 Speaker 1: soon making like eighty grand a month, like crazy money 1485 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,599 Speaker 1: on this, very very success, very good at Patreon now. 1486 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,320 Speaker 1: All the while, Peterson continued to ram hard into particularly 1487 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:24,080 Speaker 1: the issue of recognizing trans people's identities from Toronto Life 1488 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,000 Speaker 1: to his mind, arguing that gender is a social construct 1489 01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,760 Speaker 1: or a kind of performance, as the Ontario Human Rights 1490 01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,439 Speaker 1: Code says, an individual subjective experience is just wrong. It's 1491 01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:37,160 Speaker 1: not an alternative hypothesis, Peterson says, it's an incorrect hypothesis. 1492 01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,320 Speaker 1: That's why the damn social justice warriors are trying to 1493 01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:42,160 Speaker 1: get it in stagiated into law. They're implementing a social 1494 01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:46,360 Speaker 1: constructions view of human identity into the law. No, they're 1495 01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:48,840 Speaker 1: just saying, if you're going to work in one of 1496 01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,280 Speaker 1: these public fields, you don't get to treat people shitty 1497 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,400 Speaker 1: because their trans are non binary. It's a very basic thing. 1498 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,640 Speaker 1: You don't even have to believe. You can believe that 1499 01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,479 Speaker 1: transgender people are unhealthy and mentally ill and still call 1500 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:03,280 Speaker 1: them by their preferred pronouns because it doesn't matter what 1501 01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,400 Speaker 1: we think privately about each other. If you're going to 1502 01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,679 Speaker 1: work in a public thing like that, there's certain basic 1503 01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,080 Speaker 1: things you shouldn't do because it's just it's being a 1504 01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,400 Speaker 1: dick and it's fucking up the ability of you to 1505 01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:15,040 Speaker 1: do your job. Yeah, it's common it's common sense and 1506 01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,559 Speaker 1: common decency. It's if I if we're in a working environment, 1507 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:22,000 Speaker 1: or like us, an educational environment and you're trying to 1508 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,639 Speaker 1: teach me something or be my colleague and you're calling 1509 01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,280 Speaker 1: me butt shit and I'm like, actually, could you call 1510 01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:29,479 Speaker 1: me by my name? And you're like, no, your name 1511 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,479 Speaker 1: is butch okay, Cody. Now you're bringing up a personal 1512 01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,479 Speaker 1: issue you and I have had at work, and I 1513 01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,879 Speaker 1: thought we talked with HR about this and my behavior 1514 01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,600 Speaker 1: was above approach. Well, HR didn't solve the problem, and 1515 01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,240 Speaker 1: we're here now so we can This is live and 1516 01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,439 Speaker 1: this is why I came on today to confront you 1517 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:49,839 Speaker 1: about this. Fired. Well, I'm going to start a Patreon 1518 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,840 Speaker 1: and I will contribute eighty dollars to that. Thank you, so, 1519 01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:59,720 Speaker 1: so we can talk about this one on one UM 1520 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,720 Speaker 1: So C sixteen passed this Canadian antidiscrimination thing. It's now 1521 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,320 Speaker 1: law in Canada, and things are fine. It hasn't destroyed. 1522 01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:09,960 Speaker 1: Freedom of speakings are fine. Name of person who's been 1523 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,439 Speaker 1: like arrested for this. It's Canada's in broadly better shape 1524 01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,320 Speaker 1: than the United States. The problems they have aren't because 1525 01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:24,160 Speaker 1: of this law. Right again, like the penalty for like 1526 01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:27,040 Speaker 1: someone like a teacher using someone's pronouns, like refusing to 1527 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,920 Speaker 1: use someone's pronouns as like a fine. Um, it's essentially 1528 01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:31,920 Speaker 1: a traffic in fraction. Is kind of how they treat 1529 01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:35,639 Speaker 1: it um. And obviously this has had Like the fact 1530 01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,479 Speaker 1: that everything's fine has had no impact on Jordan Peterson, 1531 01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:40,400 Speaker 1: who went right on yelling about trans people for their 1532 01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:42,280 Speaker 1: made up pronouns and has made that like made that 1533 01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:45,880 Speaker 1: a cornerstone of his career and is increasingly popular YouTube lectures. 1534 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,240 Speaker 1: He urged his fans to treat trans and non binary 1535 01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:51,479 Speaker 1: people as confused or deluded. When one person, after a 1536 01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,760 Speaker 1: public lecture, acts him why he would not use non 1537 01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,519 Speaker 1: binary pronouns, he stated, I don't believe that using your 1538 01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,479 Speaker 1: pronouns will do you any good in the long run, 1539 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,000 Speaker 1: which is not your decision to make. Jordan, Oh, my god, 1540 01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:04,360 Speaker 1: Jordan is not. I don't. I don't. I I have 1541 01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:06,880 Speaker 1: been an employer. I have hired people, some of them 1542 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,000 Speaker 1: have been religious. I don't believe that going to church 1543 01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,400 Speaker 1: does you any good. But you know what, if I 1544 01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:13,920 Speaker 1: were to be discriminatory about them because they go to 1545 01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,120 Speaker 1: church and I don't care for church, I would rightfully 1546 01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,360 Speaker 1: get in trouble because that's fucked up and none of 1547 01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:25,000 Speaker 1: my goddamn business. Yeah, rightfully get in trouble for that. 1548 01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:30,400 Speaker 1: It's the same thing. It's all so uh, my opic. Yeah, 1549 01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:31,960 Speaker 1: but he won't want but he won't like change. It 1550 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,479 Speaker 1: won't change his mind that any of these things don't 1551 01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:37,880 Speaker 1: add up, or that it hasn't like affected anybody. It's 1552 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,160 Speaker 1: the same thing. When he was on that comedian confronted 1553 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:46,680 Speaker 1: him about like the gay wedding cake bakery issue, and 1554 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,080 Speaker 1: he compared it to the civil rights movement, and then 1555 01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,519 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson on camer was like, oh, I guess maybe 1556 01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,040 Speaker 1: I was wrong about that, Um, And he sort of 1557 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:59,000 Speaker 1: like realized how fool like foolish he was being. Um. 1558 01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:01,439 Speaker 1: And then never we ever heard from it again, never 1559 01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:04,599 Speaker 1: heard of it again. He did not actually change his 1560 01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,320 Speaker 1: mind or approach at all. No, he just got realized 1561 01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,640 Speaker 1: that he couldn't actually make a good argument against it, 1562 01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,040 Speaker 1: so he continued to repeat it when he was not 1563 01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:15,439 Speaker 1: arguing and was instead lecturing to a room of people 1564 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,160 Speaker 1: who would never question him. Yep ye. In the follow 1565 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,840 Speaker 1: up questions during that same lecture, another student asked if 1566 01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,280 Speaker 1: without C. Sixteen, he'd be willing to use pronouns like 1567 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,600 Speaker 1: they and them if a transgender person asked him to. 1568 01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,519 Speaker 1: He responded that it might depend on how they asked, 1569 01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:31,880 Speaker 1: which is like the same thing Ben Shapiro says, right, like, 1570 01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:35,160 Speaker 1: because actually, if you're a person, you just generally choose 1571 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:37,200 Speaker 1: not to be shitty to the people immediately around you 1572 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,160 Speaker 1: because it makes life harder for no good goddamn reason. Um. Yeah, 1573 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,679 Speaker 1: it's frustrating, real, real simple and frustrating. Yeah, it depends 1574 01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,719 Speaker 1: on how they asked. God, what a unbelievable I can't 1575 01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,920 Speaker 1: even say yeah, I can't even can't even just confirm 1576 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,559 Speaker 1: like yeah, of course, because I'm a decent person. It's 1577 01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,840 Speaker 1: extra frustrating because in a in a bunch of his writing, 1578 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,719 Speaker 1: Peterson does talk about the fact that cultures obe evolve 1579 01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:02,880 Speaker 1: and change over time. He's written about this at length, 1580 01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:05,599 Speaker 1: and he's also admitted that cultural understanding of gender and 1581 01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,240 Speaker 1: like pronoun usage might change, and that that would be okay. 1582 01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:11,679 Speaker 1: During one of his two thousand sixty debates, Peterson admitted, 1583 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:13,920 Speaker 1: if our society comes to some sort of consensus over 1584 01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,320 Speaker 1: the next while about how we'll solve the pronoun problem, 1585 01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:19,200 Speaker 1: and that becomes part of popular parlance, and it seems 1586 01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:22,120 Speaker 1: to solve the problem properly without sacrificing the distinction between 1587 01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:24,519 Speaker 1: singular and plural, and without requiring me to memorize an 1588 01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,840 Speaker 1: impossible list of an indefinite number of pronouns that I 1589 01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,559 Speaker 1: would be willing to reconsider my position. And again, part 1590 01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,960 Speaker 1: of this is, like he like, there's always this. There 1591 01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:34,800 Speaker 1: are some people who have like suggested what I think 1592 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,559 Speaker 1: are probably kind of linguistically non kind of dead ends, 1593 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,559 Speaker 1: like Z, which is like I don't think you're gonna 1594 01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,839 Speaker 1: get love, but like they in them number one already 1595 01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:46,080 Speaker 1: perfectly acceptable to use either a singular and plural or whatever, 1596 01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: and like there's not there's just not an indefinite, interminably 1597 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,559 Speaker 1: long list of pronouns that like people are really or 1598 01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:57,040 Speaker 1: like they're just saying, like, yeah, don't don't call me, 1599 01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,280 Speaker 1: Like if I say, don't call me this, like try 1600 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,439 Speaker 1: to remember to call me the thing that that that 1601 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,559 Speaker 1: I identify with. Like, and it's also not even like 1602 01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:08,679 Speaker 1: people always assume like if you if you say something 1603 01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,280 Speaker 1: accidentally or like you don't know, like that's that's it. 1604 01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:13,080 Speaker 1: That's the one that's gonna get it, like, well know, 1605 01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,920 Speaker 1: then you'll be corrected and then you like alter your 1606 01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,840 Speaker 1: behavior slately. Yeah, and it it doesn't even matter if 1607 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,479 Speaker 1: you really get it, because I like to be entirely honest, 1608 01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,160 Speaker 1: Like I've read a lot of stuff about gender nonconforming 1609 01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:26,160 Speaker 1: stuff that I haven't understood, But all that matters is 1610 01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:28,120 Speaker 1: that when someone says, hey, this is how I prefer 1611 01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,679 Speaker 1: to be like that, Okay, fine, yeah, absolutely, Like yeah, 1612 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:36,040 Speaker 1: just don't easy easy yeah yeah, yeah, it's it's so easy. Yeah, 1613 01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:40,400 Speaker 1: it's very very simple. Really. So yeah. Peterson's real issue 1614 01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:42,439 Speaker 1: here is that in his mind, being trans or non 1615 01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,680 Speaker 1: binary or anything that's not like male female, any of 1616 01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,320 Speaker 1: this stuff is unhealthy. In his conception of the world, 1617 01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:51,960 Speaker 1: order is masculine, and chaos is feminine and if it 1618 01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,200 Speaker 1: turns out that a whole bunch of people aren't really either, 1619 01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,400 Speaker 1: then the cosmology of his mental universe might have to change, 1620 01:23:57,479 --> 01:23:59,960 Speaker 1: and Jordan Peterson is not willing to do that now. 1621 01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:02,679 Speaker 1: The thing I find most worrying about him, and most 1622 01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,760 Speaker 1: potentially dangerous, is this obsession with whether or not other 1623 01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,000 Speaker 1: people are healthy. This is really the big issue with 1624 01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson um It consumes him, and it leads him 1625 01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,439 Speaker 1: to attack people who make choices that don't fit his 1626 01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,160 Speaker 1: definition of healthy. A great example of this in action 1627 01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,559 Speaker 1: would be Peterson's reaction to the rise of in cell 1628 01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:22,120 Speaker 1: related terrorist attacks. In two thousand eighteen, and in voluntary 1629 01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:25,599 Speaker 1: celibate man named Alec Menascian rented a van and drove 1630 01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,840 Speaker 1: it into a crowded sidewalk. He killed ten people and 1631 01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:29,800 Speaker 1: wounded fourteen more, and I think most of his victims 1632 01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,320 Speaker 1: were women, which was his goal. In a Facebook post 1633 01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,280 Speaker 1: he made prior to his shooting, Manasseian wrote private recruit 1634 01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Menassey in infantry zero zero zero one zero, wishing to 1635 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,120 Speaker 1: speak to Sergeant four chand please, the Insell rebellion has 1636 01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,519 Speaker 1: already begun. We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacy's 1637 01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:46,280 Speaker 1: all hail the supreme gentleman Elliott Roger, and he killed 1638 01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:50,360 Speaker 1: a bunch of people. Now this is interesting to me 1639 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,719 Speaker 1: because I I am actually, like, like a recognized expert 1640 01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:55,640 Speaker 1: in online radicals. I make money from it, like it 1641 01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:57,680 Speaker 1: quoted by fucking like a lot like this is the 1642 01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,479 Speaker 1: thing that I study like it's the only thing that 1643 01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,040 Speaker 1: I actually have any degree of meaningful expertise and other 1644 01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,960 Speaker 1: than certain narcotics um and to me, as a guy 1645 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,600 Speaker 1: who studies this for a living, Menascians, post make us 1646 01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,559 Speaker 1: a few things very clear. One of them is that 1647 01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:14,320 Speaker 1: he was radicalized in a community of similarly inclined people 1648 01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:17,720 Speaker 1: somewhere on four chance his radicalization occurred as part of 1649 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,479 Speaker 1: a community that was self radicalizing. Two he was directly 1650 01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:25,559 Speaker 1: inspired by the example of another involuntary celibate terrorist, Elliott Roger, 1651 01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:26,840 Speaker 1: who was like the first one of them to shoot 1652 01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,879 Speaker 1: a bunch of people. And three he sees his actions 1653 01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:33,080 Speaker 1: as something akin to military service and defense of a cause. Right, 1654 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,800 Speaker 1: those things are very clear from that post, which tells 1655 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:37,559 Speaker 1: you a lot about this man and how he became 1656 01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,840 Speaker 1: radicalized towards violence. A very useful piece of data if 1657 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,040 Speaker 1: you actually care about what causes people to carry out 1658 01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,320 Speaker 1: attacks like this. Jordan Peterson doesn't know much about radical 1659 01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,400 Speaker 1: or at least he doesn't admit to knowing much about it, 1660 01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,080 Speaker 1: because he's never published anything relevant on in cells or 1661 01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,120 Speaker 1: on terrorism in general. But when he was asked about this, 1662 01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,719 Speaker 1: he still felt the need to propose sweeping government mandated 1663 01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,800 Speaker 1: changes in civilization in order to stop to such attacks, which, 1664 01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:04,400 Speaker 1: given his attitudes towards other government mandated things, I find interesting. 1665 01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from the New York Times here violent 1666 01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:09,519 Speaker 1: attacks or what happened when men do not have partners? 1667 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,960 Speaker 1: Mr Peterson says, in society needs to work to make 1668 01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:14,120 Speaker 1: sure those men are married. He was angry at God 1669 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:16,559 Speaker 1: because women were rejecting him. Mr Peterson says, of the 1670 01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,720 Speaker 1: Toronto killer, the cure for that has enforced monogamy. That's 1671 01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:24,000 Speaker 1: actually why monogamy emerges. Mr Peterson does not pause when 1672 01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,360 Speaker 1: he says this enforced monogamy is to him, simply a 1673 01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:28,880 Speaker 1: rational solution. Otherwise women will only go for the most 1674 01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,280 Speaker 1: high status men, he explains, and that couldn't make either 1675 01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,880 Speaker 1: gender happy. In the end. Half the men fail, he says, 1676 01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:36,559 Speaker 1: meaning they don't procreate and no one cares about the 1677 01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,840 Speaker 1: men who fail. I laugh because it is absurd. This 1678 01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,559 Speaker 1: is the New York Torms Times reporter. You're laughing about them, 1679 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,560 Speaker 1: he says, giving me a disappointed look. That's because you're female. 1680 01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,240 Speaker 1: But aside from interventions that would redistribute sex, Mr Peterson 1681 01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,760 Speaker 1: is staunchly against what he calls equality of outcomes or 1682 01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:55,400 Speaker 1: efforts to equalize society. He usually calls them pathological. They're evil. 1683 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,160 Speaker 1: He agrees that this is inconsistent for preventing hordes of 1684 01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:01,360 Speaker 1: single men from violence. He believes necessary for the stability 1685 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:06,599 Speaker 1: of society. Enforced monogamy helps neutralize that. M a lot 1686 01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:10,439 Speaker 1: of a lot. There's a lot there, didn't He walked 1687 01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:11,920 Speaker 1: this back and was like, why didn't mean like literally 1688 01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:13,880 Speaker 1: a law. I just mean like culturally we should like 1689 01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:18,760 Speaker 1: generally like support monogamy and like like but again, even 1690 01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,720 Speaker 1: that is like, yeah, you're saying that society should change, 1691 01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:23,960 Speaker 1: whether or not it's by a law or just by 1692 01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,760 Speaker 1: culturally we support this and our vocal about it or 1693 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:31,679 Speaker 1: do like campaigns or propaganda about it or whatever it is. Uh, yeah, 1694 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:34,920 Speaker 1: I know what's wild, Cody. I spent I don't have 1695 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,639 Speaker 1: any kids, and I spent a decent chunk of my 1696 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,919 Speaker 1: my early adulthood single, I also had access to firearms 1697 01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,599 Speaker 1: and I didn't shoot anybody. You know why, because that's 1698 01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:47,760 Speaker 1: bad to do that. And you know what, I have 1699 01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:50,800 Speaker 1: a lot of friends who were men and not dating 1700 01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,640 Speaker 1: women and not don't have kids, and you know what 1701 01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,439 Speaker 1: they don't do is murder a bunch of people people 1702 01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,800 Speaker 1: because it's bad to murder people. Yeah, it's bad because 1703 01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:04,200 Speaker 1: it's wrong. Um, that's all you need. It's very it's 1704 01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:09,519 Speaker 1: very easy, yeah, yeah, to not commit mass murder. And like, 1705 01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:13,880 Speaker 1: if people are committing mass murder, but people who are 1706 01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, single and and don't have kids don't commit 1707 01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:19,639 Speaker 1: mass murder, maybe the thing that's causing the mass murder 1708 01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,040 Speaker 1: isn't the fact that they're single. Butt instead other factors 1709 01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:27,439 Speaker 1: like radicalization within communities that are inherently toxic and push 1710 01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:31,719 Speaker 1: people towards violence, and are perhaps artificially accelerated and um 1711 01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:37,400 Speaker 1: and and publicized by certain like algorithmic realities that cause Yeah, 1712 01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:40,040 Speaker 1: maybe maybe the issue is more in the thing that 1713 01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:43,240 Speaker 1: this person does and everyone else who is single doesn't do, 1714 01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:46,479 Speaker 1: and this person and other people who are in these 1715 01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,080 Speaker 1: same communities carry out terrorist attacks and other people who 1716 01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,519 Speaker 1: aren't dating anybody, don't carry out terrorist acts. Maybe we 1717 01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:53,640 Speaker 1: should care about this community that they're in. Maybe the 1718 01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:56,439 Speaker 1: community is the problem. Maybe it's the environment that they 1719 01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,719 Speaker 1: keep going back to, um like a feedback loop. Also 1720 01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:04,080 Speaker 1: like yeah, his his approach to it is So it's 1721 01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:10,280 Speaker 1: bizarre too, because it's like, no, you're you're just do 1722 01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,760 Speaker 1: the clean your room advice. Yeah, like that's the that's 1723 01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:15,960 Speaker 1: the advice. Like well, yeah, like guys would like work 1724 01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:19,720 Speaker 1: on themselves and like be socialized and like uh, you know, 1725 01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:23,200 Speaker 1: get get a new skill, become desirable and these sort 1726 01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:25,519 Speaker 1: of things instead of wallowing in it and these like 1727 01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:31,759 Speaker 1: sad online extreme groups. It's there's a lot that's fucked 1728 01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,160 Speaker 1: up about it, like and it's just the worst part 1729 01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,760 Speaker 1: of it is this idea that personal responsibility matters to 1730 01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:42,080 Speaker 1: these people up until people have a problem with something 1731 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,920 Speaker 1: like that that they also find weird, and then it 1732 01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:48,040 Speaker 1: doesn't matter that like you're supposed to people are supposed 1733 01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,960 Speaker 1: to be free and personal responsibility is supposed to matter. 1734 01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,280 Speaker 1: Like let's ban this thing that I personally think is 1735 01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:57,920 Speaker 1: kind of weird. Um, like fuck you people, Yeah, that's 1736 01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:02,559 Speaker 1: that's where I land. Um Yeah, no, no, authoritarian unless 1737 01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:06,799 Speaker 1: unless chaos is creeping in my idea of whatever chaos 1738 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:11,200 Speaker 1: might be. Yeah, yeah, chaos is stuff I don't like 1739 01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:13,640 Speaker 1: in order is stuff that I already like. So I 1740 01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:15,680 Speaker 1: don't need to change at all. The world needs to 1741 01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:18,840 Speaker 1: change in order for me to be happy, which is 1742 01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:20,599 Speaker 1: the thing that Jordan's says is the cause of all 1743 01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,960 Speaker 1: evil in the world. But he doesn't recognize that he does. 1744 01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:25,840 Speaker 1: It's wild, yeah, because like he's like, well, yeah, don't 1745 01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,519 Speaker 1: don't try to change the world unless you've like perfected 1746 01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:32,880 Speaker 1: yourself and fixed up your own stuff. He's a mess, 1747 01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:35,280 Speaker 1: so like what is maybe he should stop doing it 1748 01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:38,360 Speaker 1: too if he really like, if you go through his 1749 01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,360 Speaker 1: twelve rules for life, he does not follow a single 1750 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:49,759 Speaker 1: one of them. No new Okay, so that's the episode. Cody, 1751 01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:52,439 Speaker 1: you want to tell people where they can find you 1752 01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:56,679 Speaker 1: on the internet dot com where there's part two Internet 1753 01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,360 Speaker 1: Part two. Yeah, there will be a second part of 1754 01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:04,800 Speaker 1: this good talking so much more to say. I've been 1755 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:09,040 Speaker 1: saving it. Yeah, my name is Cody and you can 1756 01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,880 Speaker 1: find me online on Twitter Dr Mr Cody, who's the 1757 01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,040 Speaker 1: google him on the accounts. I've got a show called 1758 01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,640 Speaker 1: some More News on YouTube. We've got a Patreon if 1759 01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:19,599 Speaker 1: you let's support us in a podcast called even More News. 1760 01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,680 Speaker 1: I do another podcast called Worst Year Ever with the 1761 01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,240 Speaker 1: host of this show and my co host of the 1762 01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:34,600 Speaker 1: other shown Cody's Patreon. It'll be great. Treon m episodes 1763 01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:42,320 Speaker 1: over Swish