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Speaker 1: A long time ago in a galaxy not far away,

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Speaker 1: Jar jar Binks made his Star Wars debut and the

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Speaker 1: public response was intense. The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks

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Speaker 1: is a new show about how one of the most

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Speaker 1: polarizing characters in cinematic history and the extreme online backlash

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Speaker 1: against Amad Best, the actor who played him, joined host

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Speaker 1: Dylan Marren as he dives into one of the first

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Speaker 1: ever Internet hate campaigns and what the backlash against Jar

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Speaker 1: Jarkin teach us about. Fan of today, find The Redemption

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Speaker 1: of Jar Jar Binks wherever you get your podcasts. Warning,

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Speaker 1: this podcast name spoilers for Secret Invasion episode two plus

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Speaker 1: Star Wars Jedi Survivor the video game available now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jason Concepcion and on Mesday Night and

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Speaker 1: welcome next vision of the Crooked Media podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, in the previously we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: much roomor now confirmed Superman and Lewis costing for James

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Speaker 2: Gunn Superman legacy. In the Airlock, It's Secret Invasion episode two,

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Speaker 2: and things are still very bleak in the world of

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Speaker 2: Nick Fury. In the Hive Mind. We are talking to

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Speaker 2: Star Wars Jedi Survivor writer Danny Homan. Wonderful, lovely chat

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Speaker 2: and a nerd out comes in the form of a

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Speaker 2: secret invasion theory coming up next.

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Speaker 1: Previously on First Up, James Gunn has his Clark Kent

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Speaker 1: and Lois news breaking today this morning. We're recording this

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday that David Corn Sweat Sweat of the Corn

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Speaker 1: has been tapped to play the Man of Steel himself

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Speaker 1: and Rachel Brosnahan of the Marvelous Miss Mays Fame will

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Speaker 1: be Lois Lane.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this was very funny. This was so heavily rumored.

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Speaker 2: Boris Kit at the Hollywood Report I was doing these

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Speaker 2: crazy studio reports and everyone was like, James Gunn said.

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Speaker 2: James Gunn said, you can't believe it until he says it,

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Speaker 2: And then James Gunn came out and he was like, yes,

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Speaker 2: this is true. So it sounds like they were basically

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Speaker 2: testing three sets of actors against each other, including Nicholas Holt,

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Speaker 2: which is very interesting because I think.

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Speaker 1: They have lost every major role.

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Speaker 2: So I think he's playing, but I think he's playing

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Speaker 2: the long game because basically, originally, allegedly they said they

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Speaker 2: weren't testing anyone else for Lex, and they wanted him

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Speaker 2: to play Lex. And then Holt said, well, I want

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Speaker 2: to test for Superman. I think that's quite smart. I

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Speaker 2: think of Killie and Murphy tested for Batman and then

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Speaker 2: ended up being Scarecrow. I think it almost like makes

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Speaker 2: him more of a shoe in for Lex. But I

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Speaker 2: could never see a great He's going to be a

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Speaker 2: great legs. I hope they still go that right Like so,

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Speaker 2: I love this David corn Sweat. He was in the

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Speaker 2: Netflix show Hollywood Big Clock Can Energy. Also was so

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Speaker 2: good in Paul if you've seen it, the Ti West movie.

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Speaker 2: He is the He's the guy who works in the

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Speaker 2: movie theater as the projectionist who she gets to do

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Speaker 2: that great speech to the the what did I do wrong?

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Speaker 2: Speech that everyone loves on the internet. He gets murdered

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Speaker 2: horribly spoiler alert, and he's wonderful obviously has oh my god.

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Speaker 1: So let's sit out there for the line. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I think for some reason, I only have a reading

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Speaker 1: disability when it comes to the name Rachel Brosnahan, which

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Speaker 1: in my mind I have always pronounced as Bro Shannon.

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Speaker 2: I did Bro Hansen I say that out.

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Speaker 1: Loud several years ago and just got laughed out of

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Speaker 1: a room. They're like, what do you call her? So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I also.

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Speaker 2: Have yes, I had heard that. That audition just absolutely

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Speaker 2: blew everyone up out of the room. This kind of

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Speaker 2: more Margo Kidder esque Superman Lois Lane energy. I would

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Speaker 2: love to see that. We were just talking, you got me. Yes,

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Speaker 2: she's got to call him Smallville at least like five times.

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Speaker 2: You know, I will be very excited to see this.

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Speaker 2: I think it's intriguing. It also echoes the age difference.

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Speaker 2: There was apparently a lot of conversation about whether Brosnan

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Speaker 2: was too old because she's the ripe odd age of

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Speaker 2: thirty two, you know, just put me in my grave now,

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Speaker 2: and korn Sweat is twenty nine. But that actually echoes

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Speaker 2: that Margot Kidder was four years older than Christopher Reeves

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Speaker 2: when they were together in that you know, those iconic

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Speaker 2: Superman movies. Also, korn Sweat first Jewish guy to play Superman.

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Speaker 2: Love love that, you know, nice Siegel and Schuster nod there,

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. He's from Pennsylvania. I feel

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Speaker 2: like that gives you that good farm boy like you

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Speaker 2: need to have that rural energy they have not really

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Speaker 2: had that very much depends on where he comes from Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: but I'm just making a generalization. I would like to

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Speaker 2: see an American Superman again. I'm very interested this. The

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Speaker 2: reporting on this is kind of blowing my mind though,

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Speaker 2: because when it was first announced, the conversation was it's

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Speaker 2: going to be a workplace origin story. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be about them at the Daily Planet. But Boris kitt

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Speaker 2: in one of his really great pieces that he wrote,

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Speaker 2: talked quite extensively about this idea of that already being

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Speaker 2: this fully formed superhero team in the Authority, which, if

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Speaker 2: is the case, would be very very different to anything

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Speaker 2: we've seen before because Superman is usually the original, the

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Speaker 2: thing that starts it all. He is the Authority is

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Speaker 2: a response to Superman, you know, not the other way around.

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Speaker 2: So I think this could be quite an interesting and

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Speaker 2: unexpected take, and maybe not what we've all kind of

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Speaker 2: been expecting. I think this might be more of a

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Speaker 2: throwing us into the DCU rather than a little step.

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Speaker 1: And of course James Gunn directing from his own scripts.

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Speaker 1: So exciting. Slated for release July eleventh, twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: giving a day, David, not a lot of time to

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Speaker 1: hit the gym. He's probably in there right now.

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Speaker 2: He's already doing the weights. He's on the Marvel Slash

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Speaker 2: DC Diet.

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Speaker 1: Up next, Secret Invasion Episode two, we're stepping out of

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Speaker 1: the airlock and into the beautiful grounds of New Scrolls

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Speaker 1: to talk about. Episode two of Secret Invasion promises. Directed

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Speaker 1: by Ali Salim, Teleplay by Brian Tucker. Story by Brent

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Speaker 1: Engelstein and Brian Tucker. We opened on a flashback. It's

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Speaker 1: years ago Brixton, England tell us about Brixton.

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Speaker 2: Brixton's in South London. It's great. I used to live

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Speaker 2: quite near that, in a place called West Norwood. It

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Speaker 2: has long been like a really brilliant, thriving Caribbean community.

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Speaker 2: It has also been heavily gentrified in the last few years.

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Speaker 2: But you get to see that a little bit more

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Speaker 2: of that version from the nineties. You can always get

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Speaker 2: great jug chicken there.

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Speaker 1: It's very what's the what's the venue there? Because I

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Speaker 1: always see live at Brixton.

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Speaker 2: Just called Brixton Academy Classic. Actually some quite controversial stuff

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Speaker 2: going on at the moment. They want to shut it

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Speaker 2: down after some bad management of a gig, but it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like another part of the gentrification. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: Brixton is great. You should go there. It's good times

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Speaker 2: if you're in England and if you can go into

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Speaker 2: time machine even bath.

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Speaker 1: Well, Fury is there and it's sometime in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: He and Taylos are meeting newly arrived Skrull refugees. It

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Speaker 1: is at this particular onboarding meeting that Fury is introduced

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Speaker 1: to a young Skrull named Gravic, who apparently is very smart,

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Speaker 1: very resourceful, a budding warrior and pilot. Fury and Tailo's

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Speaker 1: recruit him soft recruit him, soft recruision, right to shield

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Speaker 1: maybe or something. Taylos gives a speech praising Fury is

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Speaker 1: the man basically solely respondsible for giving Scroll refugees safe harbor.

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Speaker 1: This is Carol Danver's erasure. But then Fury then mentions

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Speaker 1: Carroll and says, hey, listen, here's the deal. Carol and

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Speaker 1: I are going to find you a new home, uh,

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Speaker 1: and in exchange for that, you're gonna help us defend

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Speaker 1: Earth from other aliens. And then he says, and I

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Speaker 1: quote you keep your word, I'll keep mine.

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Speaker 2: He did not keep his word. I just need to

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Speaker 2: say that how long has it been.

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Speaker 1: He's getting into it. Stuff happened, He disappeared for five

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Speaker 1: years when he got he.

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Speaker 2: Founded the Avengers, that Chatari came, but like, where was

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Speaker 2: this man and couldn't he just like find a little

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Speaker 2: bit him?

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Speaker 1: If if I'm if I'm asshole Nick Fury, maybe I say, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he disappeared. Okay, I got snapped. That's not necessarily my problem.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I then did kind of abscond from my

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Speaker 1: responsibilities by going to space to work for you know,

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Speaker 1: up in space for the last several years, not working

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Speaker 1: on getting you a home world. But like your one

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Speaker 1: job was protect Earth from aliens. Intari came and.

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Speaker 2: What happened with fans what happened? Yeah, it's a good

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Speaker 2: I mean this does definitely bring up one of the

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Speaker 2: issues with when you're fifteen years into like a cinematic universe,

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Speaker 2: is you introduce a law that has been going on

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes for you know, over a decade in

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Speaker 2: this case, three decades, and you're going to start being

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Speaker 2: able to be like, well, where were the scrolls when

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Speaker 2: this happened? Like what was old Talos doing when Thanos

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Speaker 2: showed up. You know, there are some questions here, but

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Speaker 2: I will say I think Fury did not do a

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Speaker 2: good Note did a job, I mean plan like finding

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Speaker 2: them a new homeware, like a new planet, like the

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Speaker 2: part of the world. You can't do that. You can

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Speaker 2: just give someone someone else's land. Many problems have been caused.

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Speaker 1: Also, Carol is going to do this because Nick, you

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Speaker 1: how are you getting there?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: He's going to space right, It's it's not a great plan.

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Speaker 2: I feel like he was doing best in the moment,

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Speaker 2: but over the last that years, him and Carol, I

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Speaker 2: mean Carol, don't even get me started. She just breezes

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Speaker 2: off the space whenever she feels like it. Her best friend,

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Speaker 2: you know, her best friend's door, who was kind of

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Speaker 2: her surrogate door. She just comes back to Earth and

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Speaker 2: she's like, peace, I'm alive. Also, I'm going back to

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Speaker 2: space to be a space and then nothing.

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Speaker 1: About like you know, a world that's mostly plants and

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Speaker 1: animals that they could live at, Like you haven't found anything.

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Speaker 2: It seems like. Also you've got someone like the higher evolutionary.

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Speaker 2: He's just making an abandoning planets all over the galaxy.

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Speaker 1: So like during the snap Carol was just like flying

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Speaker 1: around putting out like fires in the galaxy and calling

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Speaker 1: back and talking to Natasha like, hey, stuff's bad.

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Speaker 2: Peanut about sandwich.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, stuff's bad all around space as well. You couldn't

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Speaker 1: have also like had this planet pretty good?

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Speaker 2: You you bring up a very good point. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: also that I'm not saying they should have displaced the

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Speaker 2: planet where half the population was gone during the blitz, right, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Not saying it an occupied plant.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I'm sad during the blit, which

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Speaker 2: was five years, surely there would have been lots of

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Speaker 2: empty planets if all the universes, half of the universal

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Speaker 2: population was gone. So in that case they could have

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Speaker 2: maybe found a temporary home or like some kind of

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Speaker 2: planet that maybe needed some help. I feel like they

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Speaker 2: didn't make enough effort. But also Fury was wrong to

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Speaker 2: give Carol this plan because she just always going off

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Speaker 2: and doing her own.

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Speaker 1: I will say if if Fury, this is kind of

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Speaker 1: like an honorable bit of damage control from Fury, because

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Speaker 1: he really could, with some fair authority, blame Carol for

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Speaker 1: all of them.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he's very he's very loyal. Actually we'll say that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So we now cut to the aftermath of Gravis

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Speaker 1: terrorist bombing in Moscow Hill. We gotta say, appears to

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Speaker 1: be really dead.

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Speaker 2: She appears to be very dead. She we don't see

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Speaker 2: her transform into a scroll, which is definitely something people

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Speaker 2: are thinking about. I will say in the comics, you

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Speaker 2: know she did use a life model decoy. We've seen

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Speaker 2: to fake her own dead. We saw sat Fury do

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Speaker 2: it in The Winter Soldier. But I would say I

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Speaker 2: wrote a piece about an Ig, and today I would

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Speaker 2: say this seems to me more like a classical comic book. Fridging.

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Speaker 2: I think she is dead, and I think it's time

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Speaker 2: for us to believe Kobe Smolder's many farewell interviews that

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Speaker 2: have been released over the last week and say she

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Speaker 2: probably is dead. If she comes back to life and

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Speaker 2: it was an LMD, I will be happy.

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Speaker 1: But RP to you, I will say, as a as

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Speaker 1: a kind of asterisk to the Fridging, I would understand. Also,

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Speaker 1: if you're Smolders and you're just like, I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: To get the way it went down, I would be

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Speaker 2: so happy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm ready to get out. And she did.

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Speaker 2: She said she knew for a long time, like she'd

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Speaker 2: been told When Secret Invasion first came up, they were like,

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Speaker 2: we're going to kill you, and she was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: it didn't leak. So I'm happy for her, But also

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Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think it was a It falls into

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Speaker 2: a Marvel problem. It's the Gamora problem. It's arguably like

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Speaker 2: the Black Widow problem that wasn't It's also Fridging.

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Speaker 1: It's not a classic Fridging in the sense that it's

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Speaker 1: not the motivating it's not the thing that's motivating future No.

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Speaker 2: But think about this. They introduce Gravic basically almost as

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Speaker 2: like a surrogate son in this episode, and then they

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Speaker 2: have Gravit kill her to give Nick basically a reason

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Speaker 2: to say, like I need revenge on this man even

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Speaker 2: more than just like the bombing. Like so, I feel

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Speaker 2: like there is an aspect of it to it, But

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Speaker 2: really I think the most disappointing thing is just it's

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Speaker 2: quite unceremonious. I think a lot of people thought she

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Speaker 2: would play a major role in this, like she dos

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Speaker 2: in both the Secret Invasion comics. But you know what,

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Speaker 2: she's dead now rip to her. Nick Fury has other

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Speaker 2: problems to solve, and the things are gonna get really wild.

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Speaker 1: Who's running the CIA now anyway. Guya leaves the scene

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Speaker 1: with Gravic and Fury is swiftly taken into custody by

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Speaker 1: we think Russian FSB or somebody, but actually no, it's

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Speaker 1: Tailor's who spirits them away from the scene. We are

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Speaker 1: on a train from Moscow to Poland. Russian forces are

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Speaker 1: out there looking for Nick Fury Taylos covers for him.

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Speaker 1: Fury then tells Taylos about his early life about how,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's to take the train with his mom

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Speaker 1: and all the kind of racism they faced and endured

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Speaker 1: during that time. And he also then pivots from that

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Speaker 1: to telling a story about how his mom had this

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Speaker 1: particular way of asking Nick questions and getting information from

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Speaker 1: him regarding things that Nick wanted to keep to himself.

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Speaker 1: And Fury is basically telling Taylos this because he wants

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Speaker 1: He believes that Tailos is hiding something about the way

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Speaker 1: the scrolls came to Earth, and he was right, he

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Speaker 1: was as he was right, And Taylos begins by telling

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Speaker 1: the old story. You know, the scrolls held out as

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Speaker 1: long as we could against the Cree, but eventually, you know,

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Speaker 1: we had to disperse across the gaps galaxy and we

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Speaker 1: escaped to Earth. But here's the thing that you don't know.

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Speaker 2: Probably should have told you this thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you know how there's like only supposed to

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Speaker 1: be like two hundred or something scrolls on it, there's

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Speaker 1: like a million, yeah, like literally a million.

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Speaker 2: Times timeline wise. There is a bit of confusion for

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Speaker 2: me here, and I'm sure that one of our many

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Speaker 2: smart listeners will clear up, or maybe you will.

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Speaker 1: But like.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't work out if he was saying that the

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Speaker 2: scrolls had always been there for thirty years or that

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Speaker 2: over the years he had kind of called to them

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Speaker 2: and put out a beacon and during the blip was

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Speaker 2: when a lot of them came to Earth.

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Speaker 1: That is how I perceived. Yes, as you know, Tailo's

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Speaker 1: basically saying, hey, yes, more I've been You know, what

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Speaker 1: was I supposed to do? Turn them away? You know,

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Speaker 1: we were hounded across the galaxy? And you know how

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Speaker 1: does he he basically says, you know you weren't here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you were?

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Speaker 1: You So it must have been during that time that

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Speaker 1: he that the bulk of the million.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think about how much it would suck, like

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Speaker 2: you are a scroll In this MCU version of the world,

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Speaker 2: you're essentially a cosmic refugee, and all of this terrible

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Speaker 2: shit's been going down. You get a little bit of help,

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Speaker 2: a little bit minor bit of help from carow downvers

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Speaker 2: a Nick Fury, and then like twenty five years into

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Speaker 2: your like cosmic struggle of being refugees, Thanos turns up

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Speaker 2: and just like clicks away half the universe. That would

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Speaker 2: be so fucking annoying. Like the struggle has been consistent

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Speaker 2: for the Scrolls.

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Speaker 1: We also don't know like how many were born, That's

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Speaker 1: what I was talking about. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's that is still a I mean, the population of

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Speaker 1: Ireland is like over five millions, so like one fifth

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Speaker 1: of the population of Ireland is Aliens and they have

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Speaker 1: they're living on Earth.

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Speaker 2: And they can look like anyone. Like there's been quite

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Speaker 2: a lot of conversation in our discord about like how

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Speaker 2: do the scroll powers work? Can they just see someone

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Speaker 2: and turn into them? That seems like something doing in

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Speaker 2: the MCU. You don't have to have them captured, but

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Speaker 2: how many times? So, like you're saying that these people

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Speaker 2: who essentially have infinite potential to take the guys of

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Speaker 2: any human that they want have just been living here

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Speaker 2: a million of them for like thirty years or at

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Speaker 2: least five years, potentially thirties. Is a bad situation, and

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Speaker 2: Nick Fury's rightfully pissed off. I will also say, look,

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Speaker 2: I have had many feelings. I kind of really do

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Speaker 2: love the original comics, so I really I would probably

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Speaker 2: rather they were sticking so close. Bubb will say, this

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Speaker 2: is a great scene. They've talked quite a lot about

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Speaker 2: how the reason they went this direction was Ben Mendelssohn

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Speaker 2: and Samuel Jackson together are just really yeah, and you

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Speaker 2: can see it in this moment. Like this scene, I

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Speaker 2: understand why they wanted to do a story about these

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Speaker 2: two characters because you feel it and you feel like

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Speaker 2: Nick's betrayal, but you also feel Taylors's fury, and he

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Speaker 2: is right to be mad. Sam Nick He's so good.

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Speaker 2: You just always want to call them Samuel Jackson in

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Speaker 2: the mat ways. And but Nick did deliver on that promise,

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Speaker 2: but Taylos has kept something from it. There's like a

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Speaker 2: lot of complexity in this scene that I think adds

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Speaker 2: a little bit more weight to why they went this direction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they get into a pretty heated argument here once

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Speaker 1: Fury realizes that there's there's a million scrolls on Earth

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Speaker 1: and Taylo's basically just walks away from Nick at that time.

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Speaker 1: I have a theory about the capturing. I think the

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Speaker 1: way it potentially works is if I'm a scroll and

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Speaker 1: I see someone, I can become them immediately. But we

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Speaker 1: know that scrolls can evade like DNA tests and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So in order to be able to do that, now.

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Speaker 2: Take on the memories, you have to have them in

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Speaker 2: that special machine.

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Speaker 1: The person, and that takes a lot of deeper concentration

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Speaker 1: and work to be able to like change yourself at

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Speaker 1: the cellular level, not just on the that's just no.

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Speaker 2: I think that makes a lot of sense, especially we'll

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Speaker 2: get into it. But later on they start to tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit more about the technology, so that

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Speaker 2: would make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: X Ray Vision will be back, and we're back. So

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Speaker 1: Maria Hill's body returns home. Fury meets Hill's mother at

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Speaker 1: the airport ceremony. She's heartbroken, She's of course very angry.

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Speaker 1: She naturally blames Fury for Maria's death, the details of

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Speaker 1: which she does not even know, and she tells Fury, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you need to make this matter. Meanwhile, Gravic's plan is working.

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Speaker 1: An American has been taken into custody for the Moscow bombing.

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Speaker 1: It's reported that he's part of an organization called Americans

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Speaker 1: Against Russia.

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Speaker 2: I know this is too funny. It's the most obvious

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Speaker 2: false flag of Americans.

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Speaker 1: Who want to bomb Russia LLC.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are not the American government in

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Speaker 2: any way, shape or form, Like this is definitely a

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Speaker 2: secret terrorist organization, not run by aliens.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a blue mind taje here of various

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Speaker 1: politicians and figures across the world, both decrying this cowardly

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Speaker 1: attack on the news and also you know, American politicians

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Speaker 1: denying US involvement in Russia. Guy and Gravic are discussing

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Speaker 1: the successful attack, and Graphic is like, yeah, I hoped.

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Speaker 1: I kind of hope that Fury would be there, just

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Speaker 1: because I want to a ski what he's become, and

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Speaker 1: this is what he's become. He's just old. He's old

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Speaker 1: and washed and I don't even know.

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Speaker 2: Why, why can we talk about this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I do think everyone is being a bit harsh to

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Speaker 2: Nick Fury, Like half the universe got blipped right, but

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Speaker 2: for some reason everyone just keeps. Potentially it's just like him.

385
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Speaker 2: He's vapist. Who is this old ass guy like what

386
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Speaker 2: I want to know what it is about it in ages?

387
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Speaker 2: So it seems very different too, Like I don't really

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Speaker 2: I guess I have yet to see the difference in Nick.

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Speaker 2: Nick always been quite a solo. I know he's gone there. Okay,

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Speaker 2: well we will get to that.

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Speaker 1: He does have to like sit on a bench and

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Speaker 1: wheeze on a certain.

393
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Speaker 2: Place, like is that something going on?

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Speaker 1: It will be interesting to man. I do wonder if

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Speaker 1: this is the end of Nick Fury's involvement in the

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Speaker 1: MCU at the end of this particular series, because they

397
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Speaker 1: are listen, there's two ways to go from all of

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Speaker 1: these red crumbs about Nick's age and how washed he is.

399
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Speaker 1: One is to an amazing rebound Nick's Nick still got it,

400
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Speaker 1: he read, calls down the thunder one more time. And

401
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: the other way is he's got it. He calls down

402
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Speaker 1: the thunder one more time and that is the last

403
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Speaker 1: of his energy and Nick sails off into the MCU. Abyss.

404
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think you're basically right. I think those

405
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 2: are the two options. Is everyone's saying you can't do this,

406
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Speaker 2: so he's gonna do it, and it will be like, Yo,

407
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Speaker 2: I'm Nick Fury, I'm gonna do it, or everyone's saying

408
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: you can't do this. Kind of struggles and manages to

409
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: prove them wrong one last time and then he is

410
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: put But I feel like two major characters from the

411
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Speaker 2: espionage world kind of going in the same series. I

412
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Speaker 2: don't know if they would commit to it, but it

413
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Speaker 2: will be interesting to.

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Speaker 1: See Gaya and Gravic arrive at the Scroll Council meeting.

415
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Speaker 1: Gaya is not allowed in. She's not part of the council,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, that's just how it works. Although the

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Speaker 1: bodyguards are there, so that's where the council members are,

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Speaker 1: all those people you just saw on television.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So this is why I was going to say,

420
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Speaker 2: this is a big we were right for us. One

421
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Speaker 2: of the things we were saying is that we feel like,

422
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Speaker 2: literally like this is the thing. Is a scroll as believable,

423
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Speaker 2: But they basically say, like this is not going to

424
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Speaker 2: be the heroes who were replaced by scrolls. That was

425
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Speaker 2: our big theory. You're going to get that more. Twenty

426
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Speaker 2: twenty two Secret invasion where what the Scrolls have done

427
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Speaker 2: well is they have infiltrate at every level of government.

428
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Speaker 2: Now that has always been a part of the Squirl's plan,

429
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Speaker 2: but here it seems like that is more of the

430
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: focus than the heroes that we do get. Gravic does

431
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 2: a great little illusion in this meeting where he kind

432
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: of says, they go, oh, what if the Avengers came back?

433
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 2: And he goes, don't you think I thought of that?

434
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 2: So I think that is like a tease of what

435
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: could happen. But I think this is our scroll power play.

436
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: We have like the leader of NATO, the UK Prime minister, like,

437
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: we have all these different people in these huge political

438
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: places of power who are essentially running the world, and

439
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: they are Scrolls.

440
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: Now they are. The Scroll Council is mainly alarmed at

441
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: Gravic's attack. They're mad at him for going rogue. Gravic,

442
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: it considers the Council sellouts. He is mad at Fury.

443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: Of course we're not keeping his word. He wants war,

444
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: and he thinks that unlike the Cree Scroll war, this

445
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: time they're going to win because Humors are already destroying

446
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: themselves any way, which fair point, and don't worry about

447
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: the event jerseys Rosie noted, they're broken up and if

448
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: they somehow get back together, I have a solution, and

449
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: it's probably a super stroll.

450
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: We basically get at calformation late and the super squirrels

451
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: will get to that. By another read, we were right

452
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: frost ring the bell.

453
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: The council aligns behind Gravic, despite some objections from the

454
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: commander of NATO Again. Gravic is then elected as basically

455
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: a wartime dictator of the Scroll.

456
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: The Nascent SUPs the Scroll general.

457
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one of the council defects. Gravic lets her go.

458
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: She calls Tailos and lets him know what's going on,

459
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: and Taylos is like, okay, set up a meeting with Gravic.

460
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: H we got a new scroll Os where everybody's celebrating

461
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: Gravihic's attack. Gaya sneaks into a secure part of the

462
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: base and she sees uh. She gets into it like

463
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: a laboratory, where she sees a lot of equipment that

464
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Gravic is using for whatever it is that his plan

465
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: is some unknown experiment. We go to d C, where

466
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: James Rody Rose has to answer to various European allies

467
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: regarding Nick and Marie's involvement in this terrorist attack. He

468
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: is clearly concerned about what they were doing over there

469
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: off the books, but Stone walls everybody, and on the

470
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: way out of the meeting, he gets a call from

471
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: Fury and they set up a meeting of their.

472
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: How annoyed would you be if you were this if

473
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 2: Rody's a scroll hypothetically, and I do think that the

474
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: meeting could arguably lean into that theory. How pissed would

475
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: you be that you had to be there, like defending

476
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: Nick Fury and you're just like, oh my god, this

477
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: fucking guy, like he didn't find us a home world,

478
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: and now I'm here and I have to solve this

479
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: problem because I have to stay in character and I

480
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: can't cause like a Russian American war.

481
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: Yet, don't you think that should be like if the

482
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: Scrolls wanted to pivot to like mainstream society, improv theater

483
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: and like acting lessons like the scroll method, it's not

484
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: just about it's not just about morphing into the person,

485
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: it's about becoming the person.

486
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you. It's like the world where

487
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 2: it's like True Blood but for Scrolls instead of vampires,

488
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: like scrolls exist, how we live with them? Yeah, you

489
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: have like scroll late night show hosts, not just that

490
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: I'm guests.

491
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: Later at a local restaurant, Roady and Nick meet. Rody

492
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: is very mad. He says that he's very close to

493
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: handing Nick to the Russians, which I kind of believe. Actually.

494
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: Fury then asks Roady if he knows that his security

495
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: detail could potentially be spies. What if your security deals

496
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: are spies scrolls? Yeah, what if they're Skrulls? And Rody

497
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: surprises Nick by saying, guess what I know about the Scralls.

498
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: I've known for fifteen years. I had a briefing fifteen

499
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: years ago basically saying, Hey, there's this population of shape

500
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: shifting aliens on Earth, and just in case they get

501
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: any kind of ideas, we need to have a plan

502
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: about what to do.

503
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: So that means he knew from the beginning of the MCU,

504
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: from the timeline.

505
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: Uh so just before the formation of the Avengers, he knew.

506
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: Roady says, by the way, we should call the Avengers. Yeah,

507
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: that if you're what you're saying is there's a ongoing

508
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: invasion of Earth by shape shifting aliens and we should

509
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: call the Avengers, and Fury's like, no, no, no, too loud,

510
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: too loud. Just you and I will handle this. Seems

511
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: like it we've already lost.

512
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: This is I believe this is called the narrative. Conceit

513
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: the Avengers. We don't have it what the team right.

514
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: Now, contractually, we don't have them right right now. So

515
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: help a brother out. Roady hears Fury out, but he

516
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: basically is like listen. He joins the.

517
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: Worst crowd crawd.

518
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: He's like, listen, you are washed, You're ironed and pressed

519
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: and folded. You're in the drawer. You can't you can't

520
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: handle this. You already just got done telling me about

521
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: how this is like an existential and it's a really

522
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: big problem, and now you're saying like, hey, just you

523
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: and me will handle this very quietly. No, you're crazy.

524
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: And on top of that, you're fired. I am firing you.

525
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: No one is telling me to fire you. I am

526
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: saying you are fired.

527
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about this.

528
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: I think it is. I think it's a whole I

529
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: think it's a whole scene for the benefit of Rody's security,

530
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: who probably are scrolled.

531
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know because this is what this

532
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: is where I was trying to work out. So Nick's

533
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: been on the space station at Saber. Yeah, so he

534
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: works for the government, but Rody didn't know what he

535
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: was doing, even though the government runs Saber. Then he

536
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: comes to Russia and Rody knows by so I was

537
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: kind of like, how do they even fire him? And

538
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: also like, what is the I want to know how

539
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: Fury feels about Saber post Shield being Nazis. There's a

540
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: lot of questions I have, So I like your read.

541
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: This scene didn't necessarily fit into the narrative as I

542
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: saw it and made me have a lot of questions.

543
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: So I like your read that Roady fired him because

544
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: Rody saw a truth in this idea that maybe his

545
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: his spies were scrawls.

546
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: I think, you know, listen, I might be wrong about this.

547
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm clearly wrong about a lot of things a lot

548
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: of the time, but I think that this was I

549
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: think that this was for the benefit of any scrolls

550
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: that might be watching.

551
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Also, good line, Hey, where Rody's like you're out and

552
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm Nick Fury. Even when I'm out, I'm in,

553
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, that's that he's not washed.

554
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: He's gonna show you.

555
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: So one of Rody's security guys then puts his hand

556
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: on Nick's shoulder to export him out of the restaurant.

557
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: Nick like does some John Wick shit and breaks the

558
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: guy's wrist, which I didn't think was necessary, and then

559
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: takes thesh like yeah, takes the magazine out, pops the

560
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: round out of the chamber, and was just like, yeah,

561
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm fucking Nick Fury, I'm bad. And then he goes outside,

562
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: walks around the corner.

563
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: He's like.

564
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: And looking all of whatever it is that his age is.

565
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: We go back to Moscow where Sonya arrives at a

566
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: butcher shop that's secretly some FSB interrogation facility. The American

567
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: suspect that was caught at the at Gravics attack is there.

568
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: He's changed to a chair. He's not talking to his

569
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Russian interrogators, probably because he's a scroll and they can

570
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: punch him as hard as they want, and this scroll

571
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: can't feel it because he's really strong. And Sonya's like, hey,

572
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: let me take a let me let me take a

573
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,239
Speaker 1: turn with him alone. Everybody out of the room, and

574
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: for some reason the Russians are like, okay.

575
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: I think she scares them. I will say I just

576
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: love Olivia Coleman in this role so much. She's so creepy,

577
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: Like she walks in and she's like He's like the

578
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: door is locked, and she's like, so what does that

579
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: tell you about me? And locks? Yeah, and he was

580
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: like uh okay, and then she's like above your pay grade.

581
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: So everyone just starts listening to because she's like an

582
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: evil Mary Poppins.

583
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is something really really wonderful about her performance

584
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: where it's this to your point, it's this contrast of

585
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: this kind of sunny marry hop and this demeanor with

586
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: doing some of the most horrific things.

587
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the most violent episode you've seen in the MCU.

588
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

589
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: So the suspect is, of course a scroll. Then we

590
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: cut away from what is about to be a very

591
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: violent interrogation to go to new scrollos where guy is

592
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: hacking into an Apple two e from like nineteen eighty

593
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: five with the green monitor and everything, and she discovers

594
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: what graphics up to let's talk about it. It's it

595
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: is a database of genetic information about various individuals, mainly aliens,

596
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: but not all aliens. They include Groot, our friend Groot

597
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: call Obsidian formerly in the in the employee of Fanos

598
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: lost his hand in that famous battle in Infinity War

599
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: a Jotunheim, Frost Beast, and the formula apparently for extremists.

600
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about it. We talked about the

601
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: super Scroll. We said we thought the Scrolls were probably

602
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: making super scrolls and had maybe been doing some kind

603
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: of super scroll stuff already, which is why someone like

604
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: Gravit could just switch between people in a way we

605
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: hadn't seen. So in the comic books the Fantastic Four

606
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: that there is a super scroll. The Superscroll is imbued

607
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: with the powers of the Fantastic Four, and that makes

608
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: him the most powerful being, you know, in this particular

609
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: art because obviously there's many powerful beings in the Marvel universe.

610
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: I think that they think about the four Strength Colobsidian

611
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: instead of the Thing Stretch Group, instead of mister Fantastic.

612
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: And we did see that in the trailer like his

613
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: when we see Gravit in one of the trailers, he

614
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: has powers, but it looked like Fantastic.

615
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: Fires ice instead of fire.

616
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, or extremists as fire or something.

617
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

618
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: And I don't know if the Frost beasts have invisibility powers,

619
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: but you could potentially see that as the the invisible woman.

620
00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: I just feel like they have found themselves away to

621
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: get out of the fantastic.

622
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: Four of it. It's very very interesting. Gravic catches her

623
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: and she covers it really well by saying, I was

624
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: just checking up on Beido. Yeah, our friend Bido. I

625
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: think he's ready for some you know, bigger responsibilities and missions,

626
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: and Gravic buys it. We go back to Sonia and

627
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: her method of scroll interrogation involves boiling the scroll's blood

628
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: in their body with some sort of formula, also cutting

629
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: off the finger with a pair of pliers.

630
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: Yes, which I have to say, this was an incredibly

631
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: small and simple way of testing if somebody is a scroll,

632
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: and I believe we will see it if we will

633
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: see it many times again, because that was she just

634
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: chopped off a finger. Boom, the finger tied into a scroll.

635
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: Horrifying but very effective.

636
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: She wants to know the location of new scrolls, and

637
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: she wants to know where Gravic is, what he's up to,

638
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: what he's planning. He tells her that Gravic is working

639
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: on some kind of machine to make scrolls stronger bomb

640
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: bomb bomb. Okay, who's doing the science, she asks, because

641
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: there's no way Gravic knows enough about science for this stuff.

642
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: It is apparently someone named Dalton, doctor Rosa Dalton, we

643
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: soon learn. But before things can go any further than this,

644
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: Gravic's forces arrive, and Gravic is there with them, and

645
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: they are there to get their fellow out of this

646
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: interrogation center. And just as Sonya expected, because when she

647
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: came in she was like, well, where's the back door

648
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: out of this place? The back door turns out to

649
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: be a tunnel. She goes down in it and escapes

650
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: just as Gravic and his folks burst in the room.

651
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: The skrull in sister Gravic that he didn't give up

652
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: any information. I didn't tell him anything. I just told

653
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: him lies. But and you knew that to have a

654
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: real villain you had to have Gravic do this. On

655
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: the drive back to New Scroll, Gravic just has the

656
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: scroll shot and then dumped in the word.

657
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,280
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about this, because.

658
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: So there's just a scroll body in the woods.

659
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: Well not just that, I mean that is a big mistake,

660
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: but also we see what the scroll tells Olivia Comman's

661
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: character Sonya, and he tells her about the science. He

662
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: does not tell her where new SCROLLOS is. But the

663
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: reason that Gravic shoots him all the reason he gives

664
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: is when they get their new SCROLLOS is like being raided.

665
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 2: There's there's cops. You can see the army. So who

666
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: is the snitch? Like, did Gaya tell him? Did tailors?

667
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: I think that is going to be there is a

668
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: mole but that actually wasn't the information that the scroll

669
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: gave away. But he is dead, yeah, beto. They did

670
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 2: just let him in quite easily. It was it was

671
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: kind of like a Joker Dark Knight situation, checked the pulse,

672
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: Like he just walked in and said, hey.

673
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if it is Beudo. Later we catch up

674
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: with Nick. He's now got as.

675
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: Much as shocking moment of the show, really.

676
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: Truly shocking moment which I need to talk about it.

677
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: Like Nick walks up to a beautiful, full mid century

678
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: moderate I want to live in that house. Beautiful. Uh.

679
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: He just lets himself in.

680
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

681
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: And it's his it's his wife house, it's his house,

682
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: It's Nick's house.

683
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: Okay, so where he lives with his wife so they

684
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: kept that a secret and I just so she's.

685
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: Just cooking and she's like, Nick, put your way.

686
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: Wedding ring on, bro, what do you think this is?

687
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: I haven't seen you in you he didn't take his

688
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: shoes off.

689
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: When she was like she was like, what did you

690
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: forget something? I was like, yeah, to take off those

691
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: fucking shoes that have been stomping around Russia. But no,

692
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: it was his wedding ring. Okay, let's talk about this.

693
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 2: Is has Nick actually been on the spaceship this whole

694
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: time or is part of the reason that people haven't

695
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: been seeing him because he's living this double life where

696
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: he's has this wife who he keeps a secret. Because

697
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: that seems connected to me. Surely he's been up there

698
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: for five years and was just blanking everything. She would

699
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: have been pissed.

700
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: That's where my mind went as well, because there's, yeah, obviously,

701
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: if you get involved with Nick Fury, then you understand

702
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: something about his life and there's going to be huge

703
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: chunks of time that are going to be unaccounted for

704
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: and he's going to be a very busy guy. That said,

705
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: she seems absolutely like unperturbed that Nick has been gone

706
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: for potentially like five six, seven years.

707
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: I think she's like cooking him dinner. She's ready to

708
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: see him. So I wonder if there's some kind of

709
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: scroll technology or something that was created and say, but

710
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: that allows him to go between the two without Roady knowing,

711
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: because Rody knew when he went to Russia.

712
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: That is the thing. Yeah, how does he do it?

713
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: How does he keep her secret? I think is a

714
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: great question. So we wondered, you know why Taylo's and

715
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: the other scrolls seems so devoted to Nick and Nick

716
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: having a scroll wife I think really goes a long

717
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: way to explain it. Yes, because there's also that moment

718
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: where the in the flashback scene where Nick touches heads

719
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: with one of the scrolls, and there's this you know

720
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: what I took from that was Wow, Nick really understands

721
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: their cultural you know, scroll culture in a way that

722
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: intimately like he understands it. The gestures and the things

723
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: that you do to build trust with the scroll. I mean,

724
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: Nick having a scroll life is wild.

725
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely wild. And I think you do a

726
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: great job there to explain because we see they show

727
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 2: us before he walks in that she is a scroll

728
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: and then.

729
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: She rants is nick Son?

730
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: Well, I do think there's an argument of like, is

731
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: gravit nick Son? Even if it's just adoptive son. But

732
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 2: it would be interesting if Beto was like his real son.

733
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 2: Oh and then we would get Nick Fiery Junr. Which

734
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: is such a huge and also because like they just

735
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: made Nick Fiery Jr. Become the main Nick Fury in

736
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: the Marvel comics. So actually good point, but we so

737
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: we see a classic classic, so he just is Nick Fury.

738
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: But like, so we see her as a scroll. And

739
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: I think they want us to end this episode asking

740
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: the question like does Nick know? But I think you

741
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: make the great answer that he does know, and the

742
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: reason she transformed back is just because that's what she

743
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: felt comfortable and in that moment. And he knows she's

744
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: a scroll, and that's why he has that closeness to

745
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: the scrolls. That's why Taylos and everyone trusts him. But

746
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: he's obviously been keeping his wife a secret for a

747
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: long time. And if, as super producer Saw pointed out,

748
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: she was the woman who bought him Gravic, she was

749
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: potentially that scroll. There is also a chance that she

750
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: might be Gravic's mother or you might have that extra

751
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: connection to Gravic. Very shocking beginning, shocking ending. They're definitely

752
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: going for the cliffhangers in this season.

753
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: Did you ever did you get any inkling that maybe

754
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: like Soren is alive. I do feel like this episode

755
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: they kept being.

756
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: Like Sore instead my wife's dead, Gravit killed that I

757
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 2: feel like Soren might be a part of Gravic's group

758
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 2: or something. I didn't feel like. I feel like they're

759
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 2: bringing it up too much. Maria Hill gets like one

760
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: mention to the point where.

761
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: I got the feeling like she must be there's a

762
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: potentially she's in very very deep cover because honestly, if

763
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: you want to be like Soren's dead and you don't

764
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: have the actress put somebody in the scroll head exactly,

765
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: also shoot him from behind, is smirked by Gravit.

766
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: Soren is so good at being in deep cover that

767
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: the whole are far from home she is Maria Hill. Yeah,

768
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: you know, so, I think that's a really good point,

769
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: And I wonder if that's going to come up again,

770
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: because like Maria Hill dies, we see it, we see

771
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 2: it's confirmed. Sorry to her mum, it's she's being sent off.

772
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: But like The funny thing is then later when like

773
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 2: Rody brings it up to Nick, Nick just like brushes

774
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: it off and it's not even a thing, but Soren

775
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: it keeps coming up. So either that's gonna make Taylos

776
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: have a violent reaction and revenge against Gravic, or I

777
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: think it will potentially be.

778
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: I will say that Taylor's seem truly grieved.

779
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: He believes it.

780
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: If it's if I don't right, So it would be

781
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: it would be a secret thing that Nick and Soren

782
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: had planned.

783
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, or Soren and Guy are together something like that.

784
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting.

785
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: Four episodes left. What do you need to see in

786
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: the next episode, which is like we hit that halfway mark, Like,

787
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: what are you hoping to see?

788
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, first of all, a million scrolls, there's

789
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: got to be some kind of You're either setting up

790
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: a much larger conflict in the future like this we

791
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: get past whatever this is.

792
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: This is more of a secret invasion, We get past.

793
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: This scroll invasion crisis, but there's something else, or there

794
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: is a framework towards a larger piece, because like a

795
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: million scrolls.

796
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: You can't write that out in six episodes.

797
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not killing them, all right, please, and you're not.

798
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: There's no physical way to eject them all from the planet,

799
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: so how are they sticking around. I'm looking to see

800
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: how they build a bridge towards Scrolls being part of

801
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: the popular of Earth going forward, and I think I'm

802
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: also you know, I'm wondering. I'm wondering. I truly am

803
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: wondering if this is the end of Nick in the

804
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: MCU going for What About You.

805
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: I hope if it's the end of Nick, it's not

806
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: the end in a death sense. They recently just had

807
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 2: Nick Fury like walk into a portal and like leave

808
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: the Marvel Comics universe, and then his son's like, hey,

809
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 2: I'm Nick Fury. I just look like my dad now.

810
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: I hope I hope that if he does, if this

811
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: is the end, I hope it's a retirement. I hope

812
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: he gets to retire happily with his wife for the

813
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: third episode. Look, I don't think they're going to do

814
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: a whole bottle episode because we only have six episodes,

815
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: but I would love to see a little bit of

816
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: that love story between him and his wife. I want

817
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: to know more about that. I don't want them to

818
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: hold that over us like A does. He know, does

819
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: he not know? I want to just get to know

820
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: this woman that they've introduced, and I really want her

821
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: to survive the six episodes.

822
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: I think that we are to that end. It strikes

823
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: me that, in my mind, the reason that Nick was

824
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: tapped for Saber, it wasn't just like he's a great spy,

825
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: et cetera. It's that, well, no one has more close

826
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 1: connections with the alien community, I think. And I also

827
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: think that we're going to discover, you know, we're going

828
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: to discover that Saber isn't just a American government run program.

829
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: It's probably run in like it was partially. It's gonna

830
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: be like where it's like there's a bunch of interests

831
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: that are being represented in this particular agency.

832
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 2: I would love to see that up next.

833
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: To our interview with Star Wars Jedi Survivor writer Danny Homan.

834
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: Pride is all about queer joy, celebrating how far we've

835
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,920
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836
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Speaker 1: little bit about outfits. The Cricket Stores Pride collection has

837
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,200
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838
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839
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: trans kids alone. You Absolute Freaks Collection, pick up a

840
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: piece and hit the streets with a message. Hit a

841
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: Crooka dot com slash store at a shop. Welcome to

842
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: the Hive Mind, where we dive into a topic with

843
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: the help of expert guests. Today we welcome Danny Homan,

844
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: one of the writers behind the brilliant Star Wars video

845
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 1: games Star Wars Jedi Survivor. Danny, thanks so much for joining.

846
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: Us, Thanks for having me. I'mxcited to be here.

847
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: So, as lead writer on the Star Wars Jedi Survivor,

848
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: what does what does that entail? How does that work?

849
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: How does your role work?

850
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, it's so much.

851
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 4: I mean, I think one of the things is games,

852
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 4: and the way you tell stories starts with cinematics and

853
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 4: goes all the way down to like data bank entries

854
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 4: and everything in between.

855
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 3: So there's just so much to do.

856
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 4: There's gameplay, scripts, there's everyone who talks in the CANTEENA

857
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 4: just an incredib amount out of ways to tell stories.

858
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 4: And so I oversee a writing team, and I work

859
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 4: with our narrative director, so I get to do the

860
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 4: fun things like going on our performance capture shoots and

861
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: work with the actors and our director and then I'm

862
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 4: also in the trenches writing Turgle conversations and just making

863
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: sure that everything is engaging and fun and interesting for

864
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: our fans.

865
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: And as like, what was kind of your journey to

866
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: video game writing? Because I feel like i'm really you know,

867
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: we both get to do podcasts. Jason writes TV. I

868
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: get to write comic books, and writing video games goes

869
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: with that.

870
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: I did write NBA. I'm one of the writers of

871
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: NBA two k et.

872
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: So Jason also writes video games. I feel like it's

873
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: in It's in one of those scope of like dream jobs.

874
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: So what was kind of your journey to becoming a

875
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 2: video game writer.

876
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a weird one, you know.

877
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 4: When I was I grew up in like the Superintendent era,

878
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 4: so like some of the first games that really hit

879
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 4: you were like Chrono Trigger or Chronomists four six, and

880
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 4: those were games whose story is just like kind of

881
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 4: how I viewed like the medium and.

882
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: Like what you could do.

883
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 4: Just there's characters from fund A Fantasy for that I

884
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: still kind of tear up over. And you know, I

885
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 4: had this weird thought that what I would do is

886
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 4: in my twenties, I would become a fantasy novelist and

887
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: then maybe later in my career, once I was established,

888
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 4: I'd see if I could try to get into video games,

889
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 4: because you know, when I was going up and when

890
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 4: I went to college, game writer was like not a

891
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 4: like an advertised profession, and that's you know, a lot

892
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 4: of stories were written by designers or by creative directors.

893
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 4: Profession's really only become mature in the last eight ten years.

894
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: So I tried to be a novelist. It completely failed

895
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 4: at that, but some very nice books that I'm told

896
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 4: are good, but no one wanted to buy, and so

897
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 4: I went to Japan to buy myself a little bit

898
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 4: of time. I had a novelist dream job teaching English

899
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 4: in Tokyo, but unfortunately the timing was very unfortunate.

900
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 3: This was twenty eleven when the tsunami hit. So I yeah, and.

901
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 4: So this, you know, I dreamed of living in Tokyo.

902
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: Japanese is pretty decent. So I came back home with

903
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 4: the girlfriend at the time, girlfriend and I promptly broke up.

904
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 3: I was living with my parents.

905
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 4: I had no money and no job, which is you know,

906
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 4: winning all around. And one night I went into like

907
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 4: my childhood room I pulled out a box with our

908
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 4: old Super Nintendo and I played some of these games

909
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: that I love so much as a child, and I said, well, look,

910
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 4: you know, when life doesn't go your way, it's kind

911
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 4: of time to take a look and maybe take a pivot.

912
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 4: And so I played some games and I said, hey,

913
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to try my hand at game writing.

914
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 3: And a few years later I.

915
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 4: Got my first job, got a fellowship at the New

916
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 4: Yor University of Texas, joined Gearbox Software, and worked on

917
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 4: a bunch of different franchises, including Borderlands, and then luckily

918
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 4: found myself being lead writer of Jedi Survivor, which is

919
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 4: totally unreal.

920
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: Tell us what some of the peculiarities of writing for

921
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: video games are. I think people, you know, have a

922
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: broad kind of understanding of how writing a book was,

923
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: writing a short story works, how you know the difference

924
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: between writing a script, teleplay, and narrative writing. But when

925
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: it comes to writing a video game, tell us how

926
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: you approach that and what are some of the strange

927
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: things that only happen in that In that space?

928
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean, I want I think one of the

929
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 4: things that when you start off game writing is you

930
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: have these aspirations, and maybe you're coming from another media,

931
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: whether that's TV or film or novels or comics, and

932
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 4: the first time you sit down to actually write a

933
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 4: video game script, something clicks in your mind, which is,

934
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 4: I have no control over what.

935
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 3: The player is going to do. It's terrified, right, you know.

936
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 4: In a way, game writing is a bit more like

937
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 4: being like a designer at a theme park. You can

938
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 4: incentivise players to inter act with various aspects of the story.

939
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 4: You can set big slouettes in the background of a

940
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 4: ship you want them to visit, but they might just

941
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 4: go into the dirt for two hours or try to

942
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 4: jump onto a rock that they think they can get to.

943
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 4: And so your job as a game writer is to

944
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 4: kind of embrace the various psychologies of people who play games,

945
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 4: whether you're an explorer, whether you just mainline the story,

946
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 4: and you try to offer something for everybody, which is

947
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 4: incredibly challenging but also really rewarding because we have so

948
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 4: many different ways of telling stories and games that other

949
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 4: media and mediums like TV and film just don't have.

950
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 4: Give you intense lore and background that the player can

951
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 4: delve into. If you have a favorite character in our

952
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 4: canteena like cough Turgle or we can give you tons

953
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 4: of backstory and conversations with them, and it's really lovely

954
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 4: to see how different fans react and engage with our stories.

955
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm definitely a two hours in the riding around

956
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: like cooking. I've never like, yeah, yeah, it happens every time.

957
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: So okay, so you've you've born them up a couple

958
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: of times. Let's talk about when you're writing a character

959
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: like Turgle, do you know, like, do you have a

960
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: sense that the Internet will fall in love with them?

961
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: Like Uligon literally wrote and all called I would die

962
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: to protect Tugle and sos Jedi survive. Maddi Mayas wrote

963
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 2: that and it's such a great piece and it sums

964
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: up how much the Internet fell frame. So did you

965
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: know Tuggle was going to become the star?

966
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 4: Definitely not. I was fearful of Turgole and the awesome

967
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 4: power he wielded. You know, those characters are tough, they're

968
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 4: almost like, you know, classic like Hanna Barbara cartoon characters.

969
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 3: They've got, you know, Turgle's got this kind of.

970
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 4: Black and white up and down, like reactive and selfish

971
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 4: kind of personality that can sometimes great against players if

972
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 4: you handle it wrong. But our voice actor, I think

973
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 4: really helped Turgle find his inner humanity.

974
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 3: Frog anime, the term.

975
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 4: Would be there, but Richard Horitz was really incredible to

976
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: work with, and I think we found a fun balance

977
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 4: between the absurdity of a character like Turgle and then

978
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 4: also some moments where you can kind of, uh, you know,

979
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 4: go beyond the the cartoonish exterior and see some of

980
00:50:58,600 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 4: the heart.

981
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: I think one of the things I appreciate about jed

982
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: I Survivor is the kind of story mode that you know,

983
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: gives the player access to a very curtailed version of

984
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: like the story of the play mechanics, so they can

985
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: just kind of mainline the story. As you say, is

986
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: there anything in this particular game that you're that you're

987
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: really proud of, something that the team really nailed And

988
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: maybe the players may not get to it, or may

989
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: not notice it, or may not trigger that particular bit

990
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: of dialogue, but you guys really feel like it's special.

991
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

992
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 4: So I'll say I am the kind of player that

993
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 4: once I finish a game. If I finish a game,

994
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 4: I'm usually done with the game, you know, which there's

995
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 4: something shuts off in my mind. I have a sense

996
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 4: of completion, and I'm not the kind of person who'll

997
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 4: go and do all the side quests afterwards, so I

998
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 4: always have to be very careful that, you know, if

999
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 4: I'm ready to finish the game, I'm ready to leave

1000
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 4: the game behind.

1001
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 3: But that said, with our character Kata, and with every

1002
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:00,919
Speaker 3: that happens at the end.

1003
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 4: Of the game, and how challenging of a scenario it

1004
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 4: is to write a child character, let alone one who

1005
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 4: has such a traumatic series of events that she does,

1006
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 4: it was really important to us on the team to

1007
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 4: land that character, to kind of honor the trauma of

1008
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 4: that character, and to really not paper over when it happened.

1009
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 4: And so there's a lot of conversations, whether they be

1010
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 4: in the canteena up in Peele's garden, on the Mantis,

1011
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 4: on various landing pads where you can talk to her.

1012
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: And it's not all roses. She's struggling with some really.

1013
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 4: So there's some lovely moments, there's some really sad moments,

1014
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 4: But again, it was just really important to us to

1015
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 4: treat her as a full character, even though she comes

1016
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 4: in near the end, and to really give her the

1017
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 4: time so that characters could get to know her.

1018
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: And what was it like we've kind of talked. It's

1019
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: kind of funny because we're talking about the games and

1020
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 2: the intricacies. How does it feel and how do you

1021
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: approach writing a game that's a challenge in itself, but

1022
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: that is also within this very beloved lore of Star Wars.

1023
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's terrifyingly exciting, right, Never never imagined I would

1024
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 4: be writing on a game that Star Wars can And

1025
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 4: I think, you know, my attitude is for a franchise

1026
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 4: I love so much that I grew up with as

1027
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 4: a child. The opportunity to add something to that is

1028
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 4: overweys all of the terror and nervousness that I felt.

1029
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: Leading up to launch day.

1030
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 4: And you know, I think there's core aspects that are

1031
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 4: shared amongst all Star Wars TV and film and novels,

1032
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 4: and there's kind of chances to do something a little

1033
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 4: new and and what I was most excited about with

1034
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 4: Jedi Survivors and the character of Bode, there's a really complex,

1035
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: rich history and set of philosophies and incentives that I

1036
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: haven't seen as often in Star Wars, and that was

1037
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 4: an incredible challenge to write, but also ultimately incredibly rewarding.

1038
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 4: I mean, watching fans react to the end of our game,

1039
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 4: the discussions on Reddit. I mean, it's just been really, really,

1040
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 4: really satisfying to see fans engage with our story on

1041
00:53:58,239 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 4: such a deep level.

1042
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: On your blog, you mentioned one of the aspects of

1043
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: that a video game writer so deal with is writing

1044
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 1: using mechanics and for mechanics. And when we were doing

1045
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: two K eighteen, it's, you know, the the design team

1046
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: would just say, hey, we want to add this thing

1047
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: to the game where the player as an agent. Now,

1048
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: so come up with scenes for an you know a

1049
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: lot of times it's that kind of stuff that drives

1050
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: the writing process. What was that like on Survivor.

1051
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:28,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question.

1052
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,959
Speaker 4: It's you know, when I talk to like younger people

1053
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 4: who want to get into game writing, the first thing

1054
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 4: I say is, yes, writing is very important, don't got

1055
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 4: me wrong. But having skills advocacy skills, trick and media

1056
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 4: advocacy skills in order to reach across the aisle, in

1057
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 4: order to understand what various groups are incentivized by, what

1058
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 4: they're interested in, what they're not interested in, and being

1059
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 4: able to kind of advocate for storytelling by demonstrating to

1060
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 4: like art artists or designers that you understand what they're

1061
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 4: what they're going for is so important, and you know,

1062
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 4: you feel it game when things don't work quite right

1063
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 4: and when there's friction between the story and the design and.

1064
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 3: The art and where they're kind of combating one another.

1065
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 4: And the best moments I think in the Survivor and

1066
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 4: just the best moments and games in general, or where

1067
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 4: you feel like various disciplines have all come together to

1068
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 4: tell a story. And you know, at the end of

1069
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 4: the day, like I'm a writer on this game, but

1070
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 4: the entire team tells a story or doesn't tell a story.

1071
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 4: And I think with the fan reaction, we came together

1072
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 4: in order to you know, really create a special experience

1073
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 4: for people.

1074
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really comes across and for you, this is

1075
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: one of those things where you do it every day.

1076
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 2: It's your passion. You love video games, but obviously it's

1077
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 2: also a job. So like, what are some of the

1078
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: games that keep you excited about video games? Like some

1079
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: of the games that you will play even after a

1080
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: long day of writing video games and being totally immersed

1081
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: in that world.

1082
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 4: Well, I will say that the timing of Zelda coming

1083
00:55:54,160 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 4: out was so lovely, very hard as game developed, and

1084
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 4: you know, Zelda is a franchise I have absolutely adored

1085
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 4: ever since I skipped together the twenty dollars to buy

1086
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 4: the original Goat Gold cart.

1087
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 3: An Yes game for my brother's friend.

1088
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 4: And so that coming out in May with such a

1089
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 4: joy for me because it's such a different experience from Survivor, right,

1090
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's that polar opposite of going anywhere

1091
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 4: you want and seeing the wonderful creative chaos that only

1092
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 4: Nintendo can kind of give fans.

1093
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 3: So that's been lovely. I've been playing the Plaguetail games,

1094
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 3: which early until really sophisticated, deep, incredible stories with really

1095
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: characters that I think are some of the best in

1096
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 3: video games. You know, Hugo, if you've played Plaguetail, is

1097
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 3: like one of the most richly drawn child characters I've

1098
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,479
Speaker 3: seen in games and brings me a little joy.

1099
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 4: There's a scene where he's skipping along after so much

1100
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 4: trauma and he finds these frogs and starts chasing them,

1101
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: and I just anytime I'm upset, I just think about

1102
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 4: Hugo Jason Frogs and if it's a smile on my face.

1103
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: Actually being part of the Star Wars universe is a

1104
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 1: is a kind of responsibility all its own. We was

1105
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: looking through your CV. You know you worked on Borderlands three,

1106
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: a game Rosy and I absolutely the most fot hilarious game,

1107
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: but like disconnected from anything outside of its own world.

1108
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: How do you know, as you're writing this, how much direction,

1109
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: how much advice, how many you know, how much guidance

1110
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: do you get from the larger Star Wars team about

1111
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: the story you're telling?

1112
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 3: Right, that's a great question.

1113
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 4: We work with Lucas Arts often and they've been really

1114
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 4: great partners. There's there's a type of partner that responds

1115
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 4: when you say, hey, I'm writing the opening mission of

1116
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 4: Jedi Survivor. It's on Corussant. We have we have two

1117
00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 4: characters that need to speak hotise, like use dictionary, and

1118
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 4: you know it's 're you know, we're exploring a high

1119
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 4: republic and we're getting information from them. And you know,

1120
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 4: I always approach game writing, whether it's on Borderlands or

1121
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 4: Star Wars, as a character centric in this story could

1122
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 4: live outside of whatever particular franchise, because if you can,

1123
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 4: if you don't tell that the good story doesn't really

1124
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 4: matter how many lightsabers are hanging out there. And so

1125
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 4: it's really lovely to have a partner like Lucas Arts

1126
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 4: that you know, knows all of these different projects going

1127
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 4: on and they can kind of help us point us

1128
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 4: into different directions and give us different research and different

1129
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 4: resources that help us kind of get authenticity. So when

1130
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 4: Kuban lives in the opening missionary speaking how tees, that's

1131
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 4: that's how tees.

1132
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: I love that. That must be so fun, especially as

1133
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: a fan of Star Wars, to kind of get into

1134
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: those spaces and get those kind of toys to play with. So, yeah, absolutely,

1135
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: this is one of those things where it's kind of

1136
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: like you worked on this game for so long, right,

1137
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 2: and then you kind of know inside out. But was

1138
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: there anything about the gameplay when you sat down and

1139
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: played the finish game? Was is there anything that kind

1140
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 2: of surprised you or like an experience that you had

1141
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: playing the game that you weren't expecting.

1142
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 3: You know, I probably played to the game one hundred,

1143
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty.

1144
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 4: Times before, and you know, as a developer, you play

1145
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 4: from like white box great Box, which is like literally

1146
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: when the level designer is just plopping down geometric shapes

1147
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 4: in the sense of a level. And for so much

1148
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 4: of game development, you see like the bare bones of

1149
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 4: the experience. And you know, a part of being a

1150
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 4: game developer is being able to imagine what the finished

1151
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 4: product will be like. And with that being said, I've

1152
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 4: shipped a lot of games and it just never feels

1153
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 4: the same. Is when it's actually puting it up on

1154
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 4: my PlayStation and getting.

1155
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 3: To play it. And you know, I wrote the opening.

1156
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 4: Mission, Courissant, which was an incredibly tricky mission to write

1157
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 4: for a variety of reasons. There's a lot going on,

1158
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 4: there's a lot of characters, new and.

1159
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 3: Old, and yeah, you know, then you play it and

1160
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 3: Coursont turned out beautifully.

1161
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 4: It's that artist did an incredible job. We teach you

1162
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 4: so many mechanics in such.

1163
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 3: A short amount of time, We introduce so many characters

1164
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 3: to you that you then ultimately you know, lose, and

1165
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: it's it was incredibly challenging, and uh, I would say

1166
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: ambitious first level and just you know, getting to experience

1167
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 3: that like unadulterated, like with my controller was just so lovely.

1168
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: You also mentioned on your blog, uh the issue of

1169
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: interacting and trying to predict player choice. And this is

1170
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: another thing from two K eighteen, you know, and their

1171
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: dialogue menu comes up, you have to figure out, you know,

1172
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: what happens no matter what a player chooses to do

1173
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: or how they choose to respond. Take us through that process,

1174
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: and how do you keep how do you keep the

1175
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: energy level high? When you know, uh, you know, speaking

1176
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: for me, after a while, you're just like, can I

1177
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: just say no?

1178
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I mean the ways Jedry Survivor is

1179
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 4: designed I think was pretty clever, which is that there's

1180
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 4: natural points in the story where we kind of allow

1181
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 4: slash give permission that the player can kind of take

1182
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 4: the rest of it on their own pace. So when

1183
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 4: you first get to Cobo, you've gone through an absolute

1184
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 4: roller coaster. And so as developers, we feel and we

1185
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 4: think the players will feel that they need a bit

1186
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 4: of a rest, a little bit of a break, and

1187
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 4: not just a break. On the storytelling side, not just

1188
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 4: a moment of Catharsis and rest. Cobo is beautiful, whereas

1189
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 4: Corressant is kind of intimidating. But then on the design side,

1190
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 4: we open up the game and we let players kind

1191
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 4: of explore on their leisure, and you know, you have

1192
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 4: to predict as a game writer all of the possible

1193
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 4: iterations of experience, and it's why game writing can be

1194
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 4: pretty tricky to actually pull off.

1195
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 3: There's various conditions.

1196
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 4: If you've talked to one character, another another, if you've

1197
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 4: done one thing, and so our script's become quite long,

1198
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 4: and our voice actors we always apologize to because they

1199
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 4: have to do fourteen versions of a small little quest

1200
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 4: just to anticipate all of the possible experiences that a

1201
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 4: player could have had.

1202
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 2: Is there a moment now that the game has been

1203
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: out there that you feel particularly proud of writing, like

1204
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: a character beat or a line, or something that's really

1205
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 2: spoken to people in a way you weren't expecting.

1206
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 3: This one is very fortunately easy for me to answer.

1207
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 4: It's the moment where you come across Karda and you

1208
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 4: hear her song on channel or I wrote the song,

1209
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 4: which is really fun.

1210
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: Wow.

1211
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 3: I've been playing piano guitar since I was a little kid.

1212
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 4: I had asked at one point to be a musician,

1213
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 4: but my voice is average at best, so I put

1214
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 4: that aside. But you know, the feedback that we've gotten

1215
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 4: from fans on that song has been probably the highlight

1216
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 4: of my career because again, what a challenging character who's

1217
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 4: been to do so much, and the song almost didn't

1218
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 4: make it into the game. We were really busy in

1219
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 4: that last year. We were doing lots of voiceover sessions.

1220
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 4: We were you know, finalizing the levels and making sure

1221
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 4: that everything worked well. But leading up to Finding Caughta

1222
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 4: we just felt like there was something missing. We needed

1223
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 4: to give her something that kind of harkened back to

1224
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 4: her childhood, something that she would kind.

1225
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 3: Of be able to hold as a memento of her mother.

1226
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 4: And the song kind of came out of that that

1227
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 4: desire to give her something that It's a tragic sounding

1228
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 4: song itself, you know, it's it's kind of a lullaby.

1229
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 4: It's it's about someone being gone and and and hoping

1230
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 4: that you'll find them again and sometimes things just work out.

1231
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 4: And in this particular case, uh that the the way

1232
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 4: fans have talked about that song and the experience and

1233
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 4: how it made them see Kata with the new light

1234
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 4: has been just like totally rewarding for me.

1235
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: Do people expect you to be good at games now?

1236
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 4: I think they do, I think, which which is interesting

1237
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 4: because like developers coming all shapes and sizes, and some

1238
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 4: of us are really great. Some of us are you know,

1239
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 4: combat junkies, some of us are explorers. I'm kind of

1240
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 4: middle of the road. I played Eland Ring and I

1241
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 4: loved it. It was incredibly difficult for me. I easily,

1242
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 4: you know, And it's it's kind of funny. You get

1243
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 4: better the more you play, certainly, but you know, I

1244
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 4: difficulty is one one lever to pull in in game development,

1245
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 4: and there's so many other ways to kind of excite

1246
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: and entertain players. So you know, it's an aspect of

1247
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,479
Speaker 4: a game, but there's there's so many other lovely things

1248
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: that people can experience. So you know, if you're playing

1249
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 4: on story mode, that's awesome.

1250
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: Story mode.

1251
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 4: I love it, Like I feel like a Jedi. I

1252
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 4: feel powerful. I don't have to restart a combat twenty times.

1253
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 3: But hey, that's me, and I'm glad Jedi master for

1254
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 3: for the masochists out there.

1255
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 4: And then there's you know, all the other difficulty levels

1256
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 4: for for me and other people.

1257
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: You know, I had to play it on the Padawam

1258
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 2: mode for that first boss.

1259
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: It was so hard.

1260
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 2: She was so hard to be I was like Brooke,

1261
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 2: I'm going back down. So if you if you are

1262
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 2: trying to impress someone with your gaming prowess, like what's

1263
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 2: your go to game that you feel really comfortable kind

1264
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: of playing and showing off with, or just like that

1265
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 2: you enjoy with playing with friends.

1266
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 3: I got really good at TowerFall. I don't know if

1267
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 3: you're yeah.

1268
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 4: It was an indie game that came out many, many

1269
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 4: years ago, and in my gearbox days, we go down

1270
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 4: to a bar, a gaming bar. Afterwards, we have a

1271
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 4: drink and play for an hour, and that's probably like

1272
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 4: the closest to competitive game that I've ever played and

1273
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 4: actually excelled at.

1274
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 2: Love that.

1275
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: It really seems like, you know, to crib a phrase,

1276
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: games are having a moment in terms of their story.

1277
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: People are really starting to appreciate the fact that you

1278
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: can tell a compelling game through story. Now, you know,

1279
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: the Last of Us adaptation at HBO is a great example.

1280
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: The God of War franchise is incredible and emotionally hard hitting.

1281
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: As a person in this industry, what does it feel

1282
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: like to see people start to become aware of the

1283
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: fact that this is not just a medium for you know,

1284
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: getting your hyper violent weird kicks on the internet. It

1285
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: can also be a place to get a really meaty, good,

1286
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: emotionally impactful story.

1287
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you know, I understand it, but it's always

1288
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 4: a little shocking to me that, like, you know, so

1289
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 4: you know, it's twenty twenty three, folks like, yeah, I

1290
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 4: a name one hundred games that are so compelling and

1291
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 4: to give you an experience that you can't get anywhere else,

1292
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 4: you know, whether that be like Papers Please or Yeah, Incredible,

1293
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 4: Dameta survivor Last of Us, I mean, are so last?

1294
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: Like Yeah.

1295
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 4: The thing about games that I find so fascinating that

1296
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 4: I always advocate people at least try and I think

1297
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 4: you know, people are turned off because they think game

1298
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 4: is marked by difficulty.

1299
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: It's not.

1300
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 3: There's a game called Florence, which is about falling in love,

1301
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 3: Lesson is about mental health. Get a Survivors out there.

1302
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 4: The types of experiences you can you can have in

1303
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 4: games are.

1304
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 3: So rich and varied. I think, you know, for this

1305
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 3: particular moment.

1306
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 4: One of the things that games have to do that

1307
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 4: a lot of other mediums don't is there's not a

1308
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 4: lot of hiding when you're world building in a game, right,

1309
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 4: players can kind of go everywhere, and so you have

1310
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 4: to build the world in authentic way where things fit

1311
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 4: and they're compelling. And you know, when you're in other

1312
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 4: medums sometimes you can kind of say take some shortcuts,

1313
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 4: or you can you know that that'll be an implied thing.

1314
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 3: But in games, implied isn't isn't kind of the same.

1315
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 3: You don't have the same tours of that.

1316
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 4: So when you have a game like Last of Us

1317
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 4: or what have you, it's the world has richly thought

1318
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 4: out because you've had an army of three hundred people

1319
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 4: of various disciplines all working together to build a world.

1320
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 4: And that's that's very different a screenplay that originates from

1321
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 4: one or two people or what have you.

1322
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you kind of brought up this

1323
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 2: idea of difficulty not being the peak of what makes

1324
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 2: a game great. You know something that we always say

1325
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 2: in comics, and we talk about a lot here is

1326
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,640
Speaker 2: like comics are for everyone, is there's this kind of

1327
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 2: accessible space and there's a comic for everyone. It feels like,

1328
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: as someone who's been playing games my whole life, I

1329
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 2: love games like Celesti. You mentioned Teacups Star du Valley, Like,

1330
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 2: I love that as much as I love playing Diablo

1331
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 2: For which me and Jason have been playing too much.

1332
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,719
Speaker 2: But like, what would you say to someone who's listening

1333
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 2: to this podcast who listens to it because they love

1334
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 2: pressed TTV or they love comic books, but they've never

1335
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 2: found that game that's right for them. Like, what do

1336
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: you want to say to someone who wants to start gaming?

1337
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 2: Like how do you encourage a new gamer to kind

1338
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 2: of take that first step?

1339
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question.

1340
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I have so many friends who said, oh,

1341
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 4: I give up gaming when I was ten or when

1342
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 4: I went to college, and I've played for twenty years,

1343
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 4: and I you know, I've followed the ind scene for

1344
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 4: so long that I have an armada of recommendations based

1345
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:04,759
Speaker 4: on the person themselves.

1346
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, games, uh, games have.

1347
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:15,759
Speaker 4: Reached this point now where difficulty is no longer as important,

1348
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 4: where the tools developers have to create different experiences within

1349
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 4: the same game are so robust that we can create

1350
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 4: games for people who are blind, we can create games

1351
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 4: for people who have never played a game before. And

1352
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 4: you know, those tools are like wonderful because they allow

1353
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,480
Speaker 4: so many different types of people to have an experience.

1354
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 4: And that's that's different from you know, we we have

1355
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 4: movies and subtitles and what have you, but it's just

1356
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 4: not the same as being on the sticks and being

1357
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 4: able to kind of experience a game. The other thing

1358
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 4: I would say, which I think is different from a

1359
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 4: lot of the linear media, is games are incredibly empowering, right.

1360
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 3: They're empowering on the storytelling level because you you.

1361
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 4: Are a participant or the protagonist of a story, and

1362
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,799
Speaker 4: the game is not just testing you, it's also playing

1363
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 4: with you, and it's helping you learn, and it's seeing

1364
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 4: you know if you're up to a challenge and seeing

1365
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 4: what you observe, and so there's just so many different

1366
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 4: types of experiences in a game that you don't really

1367
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 4: get when you're watching a movie.

1368
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: Well, Dan, the game is so fun.

1369
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

1370
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 1: It's really great, and thanks so much for joining us again.

1371
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, this was lovely.

1372
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 3: Thanks for the Inpiet, I had a good time.

1373
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: Thanks standing up next nerd out.

1374
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, in today's that out where you tell us what

1375
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 2: you love them, Why a theory you're excited to share,

1376
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 2: or ask us a quick question that we can answer.

1377
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 2: Anthony pictes us our very first secret invasion theory. Okay,

1378
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 2: I love this. This is like a really big one. Okay, hey, guys,

1379
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 2: I feel like Nick Fury is a scroll. Hand me out.

1380
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: I feel like he is to Honestly, I've been wondering

1381
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 1: if Nick Fury hasn't always been a scrull.

1382
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 2: I was wondering that too. Could that work? Is there

1383
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 2: a way that that works? We know, like even pre

1384
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 2: Captain Marvel? Could that be it? I would love to

1385
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 2: see it. So here's what here's Anthony's argument. Fact one,

1386
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: we see in Captain Marvel how scrolls connect in intimate ways,

1387
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 2: which is by pressing foreheads together, and we see Fury

1388
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 2: do this with Telos in their time alone together in

1389
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 2: the rooftop. Fact two, we consistently have people saying Fury

1390
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 2: seems different and not the same. Okay, this is actually

1391
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 2: good and no longer three steps ahead of the game.

1392
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 2: Maybe scroll version of Fury can't quite hack it as well.

1393
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 2: That would actually be interesting if there's something about replacing Nick,

1394
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 2: if this is a newer thing and something to do

1395
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: with this physiology that actually like drains the scroll, because

1396
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: Nick has a very strange physiology in the comics and

1397
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 2: kind of like a different timeline than most human lives.

1398
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:53,839
Speaker 2: Fact three. Maria Hill, Fury's closest confidante and protege, speaks

1399
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 2: to Fury over a game of chess. Well, okay, this

1400
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 2: is this is going dark. Guys, beware. Well, what if

1401
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 2: Fury was actually killed by the three four fifty cow

1402
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 2: bullets that the Winter soldier put in him during Captain

1403
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 2: America win a soldier so the.

1404
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: Life model decoy would not have been real.

1405
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 2: His death is not faked. Instead, he is replaced by

1406
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 2: a scroll, ally so as to disrupt the morale and

1407
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 2: future ops. This may even be a contingency plan by

1408
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 2: Fury himself. This is actually so this is fucking good,

1409
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 2: especially because that would explain the squirrel wife. It would

1410
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 2: make it way less weird. Okay, this is so fun.

1411
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 2: He might be the only other human to know the truth.

1412
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 2: Back to their chess game, Fury says he's doing what

1413
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 2: he's doing because he owes it to Taylos, and Hill says, well,

1414
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 2: are you sure you don't mean someone else? I wonder

1415
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 2: if she means He feels like he owes it to

1416
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 2: the original and authentic Fury that this scroll took over

1417
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 2: from and promised to keep Earth safe all costs. Fact four,

1418
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 2: after the events win a soldier, Fury tells cap if

1419
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 2: anyone's looking for him, he will be right here, motioning

1420
01:12:54,360 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 2: to his grave, where the real Fury is five essentially

1421
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 2: not seen again post age Vulture on spending most of

1422
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 2: his time in space with a bunch of other scrolls,

1423
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 2: as evidenced by the after credit seeing a Spider Man

1424
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: far from Home fact six Warriors. Scrolls typically keep their

1425
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 2: human form on at all times. Anthony goes on to

1426
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 2: do our a disclaimer, all of us with people who

1427
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: love it him for hat theory always do. He says,

1428
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: could be completely wrong, but if I am my consult

1429
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 2: consolation prizes, Sonya is probably a scroll. But I have

1430
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 2: to say, this is such a good theory you argued it,

1431
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: and I think if they could pull this off, that

1432
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 2: would actually make the show have such a massive impact.

1433
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: I also wonder if Gravic's device doesn't solve the problem

1434
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 1: for scroll Nick Fury of like my body, my.

1435
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 2: Snick's aging and then aging make Nick Fury immortal like

1436
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: he is in the comics.

1437
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if I wonder if that would not be

1438
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: a way to solve the scroll Nick is washed Wow

1439
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 1: a thing, If indeed that is the thing I do

1440
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 1: increasingly bad.

1441
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 2: This sold me. I love it. This is the kind

1442
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 2: of tin hat theories x ray Vision. This to me

1443
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 2: is more of that out there cosmic style storytelling that

1444
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 2: I think is connected to secret invasion. So thank you, Anthony.

1445
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 2: I love this theory. If you have theories, passions, or

1446
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 2: quick questions you want to share, hit us up at

1447
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: x ray at crooked dot com. Instructions are in the

1448
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 2: show notes.

1449
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: What if I mean, what if the flirkin killed Nick?

1450
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 2: I know he died from the I do feel like

1451
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 2: the flukin and the eye I feel like they're doing something.

1452
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: I feel like him taking not I feel like them

1453
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 2: purposefully taking off the eye patch. It feels monumental to

1454
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 2: I need to know why did the flucking give him

1455
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 2: like three D scroll seeing vision? Is he a scroll?

1456
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: Did the flucking kill him? We need to know.

1457
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: Well that's it for us. Big thank you to Danny Holman.

1458
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: Rosie plugs.

1459
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 2: Plugs, Oh yes, I do have something to plug. This

1460
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 2: episode will be coming out on Friday. If you happen

1461
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 2: to listen to it in the morning on Friday and

1462
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 2: you live in the LA area, I will be doing

1463
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 2: a signing of my Bodilla comic you use or City

1464
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,719
Speaker 2: Walk very fun at T four really cool comic shop

1465
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 2: with Nick Marino, who also wrote Godzilla Comic and we'll

1466
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 2: just be there in the afternoon. I believe, like four

1467
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 2: till six, just chill in on City Walk. You can

1468
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 2: come and see us and get a Godzilla Comics signed.

1469
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: Extra Vision is taking the fourth of July week off.

1470
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 1: That means no new episodes on either July fifth or seventh.

1471
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: We back in your podcast feeds in July twelfth with

1472
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: some Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny stuff. WHOA So get

1473
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: your little dusty Fedora on and get your whips, get

1474
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 1: your whips out and get prepared to steal the cultural

1475
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: legacy of numerous cultures around the world.

1476
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 2: With celebratory John Williams music. And in the meantime, if

1477
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 2: you need X ray Vision in your life while you're

1478
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: on a break, check out the YouTube edition of our

1479
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 2: recent live show on the fifteenth anniversary of The Dark Night.

1480
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 2: Wasn't that fun? It was really so much fun, really dolive,

1481
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 2: which included some very fun games, very bad impressions by me,

1482
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 2: and discussions that are one hundred percent exclusive to YouTube.

1483
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five reviews, we need him. We got

1484
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: to have him. You gotta give them to us. Here's

1485
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: one from Tracy from Brooklyn, love best exclamation point. X

1486
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 1: ray Vision is like a great hang with funny knowledgeble

1487
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: thoughtful friends who clue you into the cool stuff.

1488
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, thank you, thank you.

1489
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: Tracy from Brooklyn. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1490
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin

1491
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Jason Sexti and our editing

1492
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: at sound design is by Viscillis Fatopoulos. Video production by

1493
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 1: Delon Villanueva and Rachel Guyeski. Social media by Awa o'clatti

1494
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: and Caroline Dunfey. Thank you to Brian Basquez for our

1495
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: theme music. See you next time,