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Speaker 1: Before we begin tonight's program, we'd like to provide a

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Speaker 1: clear disclaimer. This episode contains depictions of extreme violence, descriptions

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Speaker 1: of graphic sexual assault, cannibalism, torture, and murder. As a result,

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Speaker 1: this episode may not be appropriate for all listeners.

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Speaker 2: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 2: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 2: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 2: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 3: Our colleague Nol is on an adventure, but will return shortly.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben, and you can as well. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. At the very top as we

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Speaker 1: record here on Tuesday, December second, Friends and neighbors, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, please note tonight's story is not appropriate for

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Speaker 1: all listeners. H Matt, You've met a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever met somebody with inexplicable charisma other than me?

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Speaker 3: Of course you, Ben, you have any I've ever met?

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Speaker 3: Let's see Dylan then, of course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Haul Wait a second, Noel, wait a minute, alexis you

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Speaker 3: holy rep I've met a lot of people with just

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Speaker 3: unattainable levels of charisma, which doesn't make sense because you

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Speaker 3: have all attained it.

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Speaker 1: You've adated as well, Matt. As we know, we spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time together, but we have never been

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Speaker 1: to Chicago together. We are traveling and tonight's episode to Chicago,

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Speaker 1: the big deal city in the state of Illinois here

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and we are looking to understand

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Speaker 1: more about an horrific cult of murderers, cannibals, and necro files.

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Speaker 1: This is not our opinion, by the way, folks, these

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Speaker 1: are legal conclusions. It's for otherwise ordinary men, collectively known

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Speaker 1: as the Ripper Crew. And I was thinking about you, Matt,

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Speaker 1: when I was doing a lot of research for this.

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Speaker 3: Because why don't think about me while you're researching this.

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Speaker 1: Well, because your previous work, my friend, we found you

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Speaker 1: and I both found separately and together with stuff. They

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know that in cases of collective

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Speaker 1: murder groups or spree killers or serial killers, it's usually

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Speaker 1: just one person. But when there is a group acting

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Speaker 1: in concert, it seems there's always a ring leader. It's

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Speaker 1: someone who through reasons science still does not totally understand

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Speaker 1: someone has managed to override or erode the egos and

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Speaker 1: self identity of their accomplices. And later when those folks

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Speaker 1: get caught, if they do get caught, they say, this

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Speaker 1: person insert leader here forced me, compelled me into unimaginable

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Speaker 1: acts of depravity, right like I'm thinking of Let's see,

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of cases in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: There was obviously Leonard Lake and Charles Ing.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about Manson and that that concept of somebody

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Speaker 3: who is hands off but forces his other people or

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Speaker 3: coerces his other people to do stuff. And often drugs

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Speaker 3: are involved, and that's why they seem so charismatic, because

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Speaker 3: somebody's getting drugged. But yeah, Waco, I mean, that's an

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Speaker 3: interesting thing to or texts, Well, how much control did

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Speaker 3: Koresh really have?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: There there are always questions like that, But in the

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Speaker 3: end you've got somebody who's off their rocker and usually

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Speaker 3: dealing with some delusions of granture.

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Speaker 1: Yes, just so, and well put our question tonight, our

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Speaker 1: questions tonight which we may not quite answer. How does

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Speaker 1: this phenomena work? What actually turns otherwise ordinary reasonably saying

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Speaker 1: people into monsters? We'll get into it after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Here are the facts, Matt. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever been to Chicago?

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Speaker 3: I have, just a few times. I haven't spent enough

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Speaker 3: time there to really get to know Chicago, though most

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Speaker 3: of my references come from SNL.

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Speaker 1: Bits Hey, Tennessee. Have you ever been to Chicago?

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Speaker 3: Many? Many, many times?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, what's your what's your favorite thing about Chicago? Guys?

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Speaker 1: Ooh the food?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's controversial. I love Deep Dish. It's

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite things in the world.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, Lasagna's pizza. Yeah, I'm on board. We have, collectively, folks,

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Speaker 1: never been to Chicago in the early nineteen eighties. It's

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Speaker 1: very much a study and contradiction still is.

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Speaker 3: I always think about corruption when I think about Chicago,

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Speaker 3: but that's popular culture, and I don't know how much

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Speaker 3: of that is true. Maybe wealth disparity because of that corruption.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wealth disparity definitely ruled, and I would argue rules

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Speaker 1: the day. Still, you got these towering skyscrapers, some of

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Speaker 1: the most famous architecture in North America. Opulent old wealth.

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Speaker 1: They have multi million dollar corporations, but the streets below

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Speaker 1: are littered with abandoned factories, crumbling, neighborhoods, desperation, crime, you know,

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Speaker 1: and at this time, in the early nineteen eighties, to

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Speaker 1: set the stage, the rest of the United States is

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Speaker 1: gripped with fear of demonic conspiracies, a social phenomenon we

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Speaker 1: now call the Satanic panic. And shout out to our

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Speaker 1: interview segment with none other than Sarah Marshall, who did

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Speaker 1: some amazing research. And if you want to learn more

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Speaker 1: about the Satanic Panic, check out our interview with Sarah Marshall.

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Speaker 1: If you want to learn even more, check out her show,

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Speaker 1: which is great. We're not blowing sunshine on that one.

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Speaker 3: That's right, listen to it. So Satanic panic is a cloud,

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Speaker 3: a giant United States shaped cloud, and it is just

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Speaker 3: over everybody that human beings, all of us. At the time.

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Speaker 3: I was there in the eighties, but I was just

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Speaker 3: a child, but all humans were trying to put a

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Speaker 3: face to some of the horrors that society was facing.

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Speaker 3: You know, these are people being murdered, assaulted, injured, or

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Speaker 3: just there's so many things that were happening to people,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of crimes were going unsolved. There's all

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Speaker 3: kinds of issues. As we talked about with Sarah Marshall,

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Speaker 3: with children being abused. So the satanic panic, as we

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Speaker 3: talked about in that interview, it's human beings, like all

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Speaker 3: of us, just attempting to put a face to some

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Speaker 3: of the horrors society was facing, including you know, unsolved murders,

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Speaker 3: child abuse, all kinds of stuff. The concept of some

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Speaker 3: satanic force out there doing these evil things made a

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Speaker 3: lot more sense than just it's some people deciding to

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Speaker 3: do this horrible crap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this panic, this moral outbreak, sure hit different

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Speaker 1: in Chicago in the early nineteen eighties because, as you

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Speaker 1: alluded to earlier, Chicago, Illinois is historically regarded as one

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Speaker 1: of the most corrupt cities in all of the United States.

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Speaker 1: The political class, law enforcement, often by the hoi poloi,

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Speaker 1: the local populace. They're perceived as living on a distinct

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Speaker 1: different plane from the rest of the city. A lot

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Speaker 1: of scandals simply don't make the news, and so the

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Speaker 1: public for decades and decades, actually well over a century,

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Speaker 1: tends not to trust the authorities and also tends to

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Speaker 1: believe in the possibility of dark conspiracy. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: can't forget this is the home of al Capone.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, Yeah, this is a place where real mob

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Speaker 3: control was in effect. And you know, again that's popularized

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Speaker 3: in the culture and movies and television and all this

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Speaker 3: stuff books and comics, but Chicago really did have sections

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Speaker 3: of it, parts of it, parts of the government itself

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Speaker 3: that were controlled by the mob, or at least by

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Speaker 3: mob money. And this was just reality. So you've you've

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Speaker 3: got situations where somebody who you know when you you know,

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Speaker 3: you go to restaurant or some of you know, waiter,

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Speaker 3: you know, some people who hang around at a deli

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Speaker 3: or something, and one of those people would just be

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Speaker 3: missing and gone, and they're just gone, and nobody asked questions.

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Speaker 3: You don't ask questions for sure. This is almost just

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Speaker 3: part of what happens also with you know, the nightlife

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Speaker 3: in Chicago. Human beings that are engaged in some of

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Speaker 3: that stuff will just disappear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, The popular consensus at the time was both cynical

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Speaker 1: and valid. Murders could get ignored, right, Robberies could get ignored.

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Speaker 1: The police would look at each other and say, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, Sometimes buildings just catch on fire and

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Speaker 1: burned out. Investigations might lead nowhere. And to your point,

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Speaker 1: the most vulnerable of people to be specific here sex workers, minorities,

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Speaker 1: the poor. They could simply disappear. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I put a hyphen in disappear there, but it

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Speaker 1: works for the pacing. The tale of the Ripper Crew

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Speaker 1: begins with four individuals. At first, they resemble any other

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Speaker 1: group of friends. Guy named Robin get Ght, a guy

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Speaker 1: named Edward Spreutzer, and then a pair of brothers, Andrew

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Speaker 1: and Thomas Coco Rales Ko Ko r A l E. So,

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Speaker 1: like so many other young people at the time, these

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Speaker 1: guys are largely a drift in life. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: going job to job doing construction work. They're going place

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Speaker 1: to place. They have no real north star, they have

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Speaker 1: no real compass or big goal. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: Robin Gett is the oldest and most locally successful, I

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Speaker 1: would say of the four. He was twenty eight years

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Speaker 1: old in nineteen eighty one. He was a married father,

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Speaker 1: he had three kids. He was a construction guy. He

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Speaker 1: did carpentry, and I think he was an electrician too,

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Speaker 1: and it was electrician. He was essentially a handyman. He

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Speaker 1: always had a string of income, right, he had gigs.

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Speaker 1: It was very much a gig economy for this guy,

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Speaker 1: and when he was not working on his carpentry or

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Speaker 1: electricity gigs, he led another life as an avowed self

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Speaker 1: described Satanist. Now he did successfully support his family. He

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Speaker 1: was known in his neighborhood for inviting teens over and

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Speaker 1: playing Get This folks, loud, raucous music late at night.

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Speaker 1: Come hang with Robin and he's got some free beer

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Speaker 1: for you. But at some point, as will prove in

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Speaker 1: tonight's episode, he started proselytizing, attempting to convert others to

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Speaker 1: his belief system. And as far as we know, this

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Speaker 1: is where Edward Spritzer enters the picture. He's young at

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Speaker 1: this point, he's about twenty twenty one years old. He

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Speaker 1: lives with the Get family for a short time, and

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Speaker 1: through him Get acquires the Cocorales brothers. They're two teenagers

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Speaker 1: who had done a couple of gigs with him previously.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important for us to note that in

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Speaker 1: any society, at any point in history, across all cultures,

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Speaker 1: gangs and clicks naturally form. It seems this one evolved

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Speaker 1: into a cult and Matt maybe here is where we

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Speaker 1: just give the headline what happened.

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Speaker 3: Sure. Well, keep in mind, at least for authorities, none

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Speaker 3: of this that we've been talking about was known. All

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Speaker 3: it was known is that women were being found on

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Speaker 3: the side of the road or dumped in places within

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Speaker 3: several jurisdictions in the Chicago area. And they all had

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Speaker 3: a couple of things in common. Do we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about what the victims had in common now, just

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Speaker 3: so everybody has an understanding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do the headline that we've mentioned. So in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, in nineteen eighty two, this group led

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Speaker 1: by Robin Gek, brutally abducted, assaulted, tortured, and murdered possibly

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Speaker 1: as many as twenty people, overwhelmingly women, often sex workers,

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Speaker 1: in a series of ritualistic killings for reasons that later

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Speaker 1: even the murderers themselves could not fully explain.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, that's it, you know, at least according to

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Speaker 3: the trial and according to what's been said. There's been

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Speaker 3: all kinds of weirdness happening since then, and there are

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Speaker 3: all kinds of questions about whether or not this was

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Speaker 3: an Atlanta child murders kind of situation where Chicago needed

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Speaker 3: to put some people away for the brutality of the

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Speaker 3: murders that have been happening, but it does seem like

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Speaker 3: it does seem like these were the guys that did

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Speaker 3: this stuff. There was a woman claimed to have been abducted,

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Speaker 3: to have been abducted by a man in a red van,

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Speaker 3: a very specific red van, and she got away. She

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Speaker 3: said she was raped and brutally attacked basically mutilated within

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Speaker 3: that van. Then there was a lookout for this van.

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Speaker 3: It was eventually found and the van was registered to GECT,

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Speaker 3: but it was being driven by Spretzer, which is interesting.

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Speaker 3: So they realized that this red van was associated with

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Speaker 3: this series of brutal murders and mutilations all around the

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Speaker 3: Chicago area. They would allegedly drive around in the van

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Speaker 3: looking for women in different counties, Cook County, Page County,

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Speaker 3: and they would look for just someone who appeared to

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Speaker 3: be alone and they would target that person. They would

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Speaker 3: abduct that person into the van and they would sexual assault, rape,

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Speaker 3: mutilate by cutting off the breasts of that person. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: this is horrifying. I know, I've realized that as I'm

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Speaker 3: saying it. And then they would dump that person in

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Speaker 3: a different part or like usually in a different county

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Speaker 3: or in a different part of that county, usually where

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Speaker 3: there's another police jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the authorities don't put this together in enough

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Speaker 1: time to save lives, right, They save some lives for sure.

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Speaker 1: So one thing to note is that other than being

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Speaker 1: female and vulnerable for the investigators, for the police, with

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Speaker 1: each of these specific cases, they're kind of siloed. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be little rhyme or reason to the selection

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Speaker 1: of victims different races, different ages, different backgrounds. Crimes of

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Speaker 1: opportunity happens in Chicago. But to that earlier point we made,

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Speaker 1: however seemingly unrelated the victims were. At the time, the

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Speaker 1: methodology of crime was largely consistent torture, assault, murder, dismemberment, disembowelment, beheading,

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Speaker 1: and most specifically, removal or partial mutilation of the victim's breast.

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Speaker 1: So if you follow true crime, or if you have

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Speaker 1: ever lived in Chicago shout out to Chef ben in economics,

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Speaker 1: you are doubtlessly familiar with this case. Matt As the

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Speaker 1: investigators found. The first known victim of what would later

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Speaker 1: be called the Chicago Rippers or the Ripper Crew, was

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Speaker 1: a twenty eight year old named Linda Sutton, who was

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Speaker 1: kidnapped a mate third nineteen eighty one. They later, as

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Speaker 1: you said, they dumped the body. Her corpse was discovered

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Speaker 1: behind a place called the Moonlit Motel, which we'll come

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Speaker 1: up in the story later. Her left breast had been

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Speaker 1: rudely removed, and a bit less than a year later,

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Speaker 1: there is the disappearance of Lorraine Borowski on May fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Her body is not discovered until five

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Speaker 1: months later, on October tenth, in a cemetery in the

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Speaker 1: Clarendon Hills neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there were a lot of unexplained, similar, seemingly

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Speaker 3: related murders in between those two, right, that's the concept here.

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Speaker 3: Borowski was very different because, as we noted, these guys

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Speaker 3: were driving around generally at night, looking for someone who

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Speaker 3: was alone. Borowski happened to be heading into work in

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Speaker 3: the morning when she was abducted. So it's a I

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Speaker 3: don't know even how to talk about this correctly, Ben,

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Speaker 3: But Borowski had family and people that were looking for

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Speaker 3: her and expecting her, and she had coworkers who were

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Speaker 3: expecting her, and when she didn't show up to work,

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Speaker 3: there was an immediate alarm amongst all of the people

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Speaker 3: that cared about her, and then police notified, and then

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Speaker 3: it became a big deal. It was heavily covered in

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Speaker 3: the media. You can find the actual reports from nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty two on CBS Chicago's website. I think they have

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Speaker 3: it on YouTube too, where this is where you've got

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Speaker 3: victims who have people who are going to make a

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Speaker 3: big fuss both to the police, officers involved in the

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Speaker 3: investigators and the media.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so not the kind of folks that Chicago would

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Speaker 1: I say this. I We're trying to figure out the

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Speaker 1: best way to say this. Folks, Chicago ignored murders of

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Speaker 1: minorities and of people on the skits. It just happened.

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Speaker 1: This was You can read contemporary reporting in the Chicago

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Speaker 1: Tribune about Borrowski wherein suddenly the public took notice. And

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Speaker 1: also with as with so many other serial murder enterprises,

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Speaker 1: the pattern escalates just a few days after. On May

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Speaker 1: twenty ninth, same year, this group of four guys they

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Speaker 1: kidnap a thirty year old restaurant employee named Shuemach and

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Speaker 1: her body is not found for another four months. These

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Speaker 1: guys are not experts by any means. They did not

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Speaker 1: successfully murder all their intended targets. Some of their targets

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Speaker 1: did survive. This ultimately leads to a break in the investigation.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking specifically June thirteenth, nineteen eighty two, when these

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Speaker 1: guys abducted a twenty year old sex worker named Angel York.

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Speaker 1: They took her into that red van we've mentioned. They

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Speaker 1: beat the snot out of her right, they assaulted her.

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Speaker 1: They forced her to cut herself on her breast, and

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Speaker 1: then again this episode is not appropriate for all audiences,

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Speaker 1: one of the men apparently ejaculated into her wound, laughing,

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Speaker 1: and then they taped up her wounds. Oh, the guy's

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Speaker 1: also cut her more. They taped up her wounds with

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Speaker 1: duct tape. They threw her in an alley and left

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Speaker 1: her for dead. She managed, Angel York managed to reach

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Speaker 1: a payphone and thankfully that saved her life. She was

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Speaker 1: taken to a hospital. Surgeons are trying to save what

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Speaker 1: is left of her chest as detectives are questioning her.

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Speaker 1: So for the first time, investigators are able to hear

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Speaker 1: directly from a victim. She didn't have much though she

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Speaker 1: described the van. She said there were multiple men inside,

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Speaker 1: which gave lie to some other guesses. We'll see where

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Speaker 1: investigators initially were thinking this is a single operator, but

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Speaker 1: the detectives start piecing things together, and so they go

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Speaker 1: back and law enforcement is very siloed across Chicago met

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Speaker 1: at this point, they go back to unsolved open cases

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Speaker 1: and they're asking other departments. They say, look for a

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Speaker 1: red van in any description of with any association to

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Speaker 1: other similar cases of assault, torture, mutilation, and murder across Chicago.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and as they're looking for this red van, it's

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Speaker 3: still in operation and there are still murders happening. There's

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Speaker 3: a woman named Sandra Delaware who was found. I don't

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Speaker 3: know exactly when she was killed, but she was recovered

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Speaker 3: on August twenty eighth, eighty two. So that's well in

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Speaker 3: two and a half months after. You know, they've got

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Speaker 3: this tip about the red van, but there is an

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Speaker 3: intense search for this. I think it's a Ford, No,

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Speaker 3: it's a Dodge. It's a red Dodge van. You can

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Speaker 3: find pictures of it online if you want to check

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Speaker 3: it out. This person had identical injuries, very similar injuries

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Speaker 3: again to all of these unsolved murders that were happening,

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Speaker 3: and Remember we're in different police precincts, right, We've got

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Speaker 3: different investigators looking at all of these murders. Not everybody

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Speaker 3: sharing all the information. Some people are keeping it close

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Speaker 3: to their chest. But around this time, when they finally

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Speaker 3: got the red van, the connections are beginning to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we also see the next month nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 1: still Rosebeck Davis is kidnapped. In September. She is found

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Speaker 1: shortly after a murder. Her body has been dumped in

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Speaker 1: an alley. These two victims, like the other victims, they

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Speaker 1: had nearly identical injuries, as we said, And now the

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Speaker 1: investigators are starting to connect some of the threats. They're

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Speaker 1: starting to put the pieces together. On October sixth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty two, members of the group shoot two men. It

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Speaker 1: appears to be a random drive by, later confirmed by confessions.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler folks that these criminals do get arrested. A guy

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Speaker 1: named Rafael Torodo and his friend, a guy named Alberto Rosario,

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Speaker 1: are just randomly shot with a firearm. Rosario survives, Toronto

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Speaker 1: passes away. This makes him the groups only known male victim.

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Speaker 1: But that very same day get Robin get entices a

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Speaker 1: sex worker named Beverly Washington into his vehicle. She is brutalized,

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Speaker 1: Her left breast is removed, her right breast is mutilated,

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Speaker 1: and against all odds, this victim survives. She is able

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Speaker 1: to give police another description of Get and his red

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Speaker 1: Dodge van and the interior as well. So eventually the

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Speaker 1: police move and Robin Get is arrested. It's October twentieth,

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Speaker 1: we're still in nineteen eighty two. This is the first

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Speaker 1: arrest because they're able to link his van to that

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Speaker 1: attack on Beverly, Washington. And one of the first things

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Speaker 1: these investigators note is that this Get guy seems unusually called.

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Speaker 1: He is undisturbed, He is not particularly he doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: fearful of arrest or consequence. He also doesn't really seem

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Speaker 1: to care that his van is attached to such horrific acts.

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Speaker 1: Police have to release him due to insufficient evidence, right,

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Speaker 1: which sounds nuts here in twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean it's a weird situation when you

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Speaker 3: think about it from the investigator's perspective. You've got this guy,

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Speaker 3: he's got a wife, a son, and two daughters. You know,

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Speaker 3: the daughters are going to Catholic school. He's known around

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Speaker 3: the neighborhood as just being quiet. The whole family is.

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Speaker 3: He's also got these other men living in the same

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Speaker 3: house with him. And then you've got this van that

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Speaker 3: theoretically anybody in the house has access to just because

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Speaker 3: it's registered to him. Right, He's the guy gets picked

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Speaker 3: up initially. But when you're trying to piece together, is

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Speaker 3: you know who is making use of this van? Who

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Speaker 3: is doing these things? We've got a description of a man, right,

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Speaker 3: but the description of the man just makes you leads

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Speaker 3: you towards the guy whose name this van is registered in,

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Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean that it's him. So you've got

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Speaker 3: to get something out of this person or find additional

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Speaker 3: evidence to do anything with him.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he's a stone wall. I mean also keep

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Speaker 1: in mind, folks, this sounds ludicrous as we're exploring it

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Speaker 1: this evening, but yeah, this is before the days of

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Speaker 1: surveillance at a comprehensive level, and it's before the days

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Speaker 1: of DNA testing.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, for sure, you can't just you can't put

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Speaker 3: it on this guy unless you have sufficient evidence.

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Speaker 1: And compelling evidence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're telling you think, like we've told you

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Speaker 3: a lot of things that they have no idea at

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Speaker 3: least the investigators have no idea about right up into

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Speaker 3: this point. This is just another guy and you know,

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Speaker 3: these are just people that live with him, So like

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Speaker 3: that's all they know about this dude.

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Speaker 1: Right, They're working with the information they have. Right, We're

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Speaker 1: not casting inspersion on them. We're saying that they Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have the benefit of retrospect or DNA testing

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Speaker 1: their comprehensive surveillance. They were playing by the rules. They

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Speaker 1: found a registration right, a van that matched a description,

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Speaker 1: and they knew that By this point, actually, they are

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Speaker 1: aware that there may be a pattern. And and so

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Speaker 1: this initial arrest of Robin Get leads to him getting off.

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Speaker 1: There's no evidence, so they have to let him go.

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Speaker 1: But on November fifth, he's arrested again, and once more,

400
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Speaker 1: he is cool as ice. He is cold as ice,

401
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Speaker 1: cool as a cucumber. The other three members of what

402
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: the press would later call the Ripper Gang are apprehended

403
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: shortly after this. After this second arrest in November, so

404
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: the authorities start conducting these lengthy interrogations and as they did,

405
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Speaker 1: the one guy Get stayed immovable. He said, I didn't

406
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Speaker 1: do anything. I've got nothing to say about this. But

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00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: the other three began to crack. One man, Thomas Cocorrales,

408
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Speaker 1: in particular, he told the detectives that, yes, they did

409
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Speaker 1: commit the murders. He said this after he failed a polygraph,

410
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Speaker 1: by the way, and he said, we would take these

411
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: victims or pieces of their bodies. Two Robin gets home,

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Speaker 1: and there get had created a satanic chapel. And then

413
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Speaker 1: he said they were still alive. They would sectually assault

414
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Speaker 1: and torture the victims, but they were centered on the breast.

415
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Speaker 1: They would amputate the breast with garat, but think of

416
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: it like piano wire, folks. And then he said they

417
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Speaker 1: would sometimes eat parts of the amputated flesh, at which

418
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Speaker 1: point usually get would masturbate. He would ejaculate into the

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Speaker 1: breast tissue and save it in a special box. All

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Speaker 1: four of these men ultimately get convicted on varying charges

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Speaker 1: from the first rest all the way up to the

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Speaker 1: present day. As we record again here on December, Robin

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Speaker 1: Gett always maintained his innocence. The thing is, the other

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Speaker 1: three don't agree with him. They unanimously agree amid themselves

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Speaker 1: that he was the ring leader, that he somehow I'll

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Speaker 1: forced them, compelled them to do these things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, there's another twist, and I don't want to

428
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: jump forward too much, but there's a bit of weirdness

429
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: going on in the investigation. And then there are other

430
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: statements coming out where Thomas Cocherialis is saying he was

431
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 3: coerced to say that, like, to admit to the murder

432
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: of Borowski by the police. Like he said, they told

433
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: me what to say, and I repeated it, and that

434
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: was my statement.

435
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's pick that up. Let's pick that thread

436
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: up in a bit, because our first question is what

437
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: led to these horrific acts? Based on all of the evidence,

438
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: it does seem certain that these four guys did these

439
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: horrible things. Also, it seems based on the precedent of

440
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: what we understand, and it seems that the Ripper Crews

441
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: crimes would have continued and likely escalated if Angela Yorck

442
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: and Beverly Washington had not survived. But this is the question,

443
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: all right, what do we make of these post arrest

444
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: confessions a Satanic cult at the dawn of the moral

445
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: outbreak called the Satanic Panic? What on earth could possess

446
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: these young, otherwise ordinary men to reach such abyssal levels

447
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: of depravity. According to the three of them, again and

448
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: again the answer was the same. Robin get they said

449
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: had super natural powers. Is it true? Let's pause for

450
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy.

451
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: I guess you know it is true, at least from

452
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: their perspective. Edward Spritzer, Andrew Coco Realis, and his brother

453
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: Thomas all consistently claimed that had some kind of power

454
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: of compulsion.

455
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Even his wife, at least according to CBS Chicago,

456
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: would tell stories at work, like to her coworkers, things like, oh,

457
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: I love my husband too much. I'll never leave him,

458
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: but it is kind of you know, it's annoying. He

459
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: goes out all night, I just don't see him. And

460
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: then he'll come back with like a girlfriend who will

461
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: stay at our house for a while, or with these

462
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: young men who come and stay with us. That seems

463
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: like somebody, somebody who has some kind of ability to

464
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: just get people to go along with and what he

465
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: wants to do is is what should happen?

466
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: And to convince you, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that point.

467
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Because his wife, whose name is also Rose, she she

468
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: told police that her husband could talk anyone into anything,

469
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: and his parents, in later interviews said he had always

470
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: been strange, and people who knew him from childhood said

471
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: he was bookish and quiet, but had some kind of

472
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: fascination with pain. It did seem that there was some

473
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 1: sort of dark transmitter or receiver or antennae about the guy.

474
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: One acquaintance unnamed went so far as to uh, in

475
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: conversation with investigators, without prompting, tell them never to meet

476
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: this guy's direct gaze. He would get inside of you both.

477
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what they're saying.

478
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: It's not me saying somebody.

479
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 3: I'm not not talking about you. I'm talking about the statement.

480
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 3: It's just what that's one of those things. I yeah,

481
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: I hear that. I think in my mind already it's

482
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: there is something about this dude that is very intentional.

483
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bit of a paper tiger perhaps, right. So,

484
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: Edward Spreutzer tells the police that he get in the

485
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: Cocoa Rales brothers are part of what they internally call

486
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: the group. His confessions are graphic, Edwards, that is concrete.

487
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: They're horrifying, They're backed up by forensic evidence, and he

488
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: describes random crimes of opportunity, kidnapping, torturing of female victims

489
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: across the city. He says, often we would take them

490
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: at least while they were alive, to a motel or

491
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: to the van, dump them in an alleyway, or we

492
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: do our evil deeds in a basement. And Matt, I

493
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: know we both saw this. When confronted with Spretzer's testimony,

494
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Get grinned and just said, blandly, I don't know what

495
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about. And then, per the story this is

496
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: coming from the investigators, they led him Get past the

497
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: room where Spritzer was still being interviewed. Spritzer and Get

498
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: could see each other, so this was not like a

499
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: two way mirror, This was a glass pane. And again,

500
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: per these reports at the mirror site of Robin Get,

501
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: Spritzer immediately recanted everything he had just confessed, and Get

502
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: said Spritzer was absolutely innocent all of these crimes. He

503
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: claimed in his new confession they were all the work

504
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: of Andrew Cocoles.

505
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty intense, right. It just means that these

506
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: guys are at least that there was some fear of Get.

507
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: And again this is kind of like your landlord, He's

508
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 3: like playing some kind of father figure to these guys.

509
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 3: You know, they're staying at his house. He's leading them

510
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 3: through whatever it is that they're doing. It's like, in

511
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: my mind, it's like seeing your dad shoot you that

512
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: glance you know that lets you know, Hey, what you're

513
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: doing is not what you're supposed to be doing. That's

514
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: what it reminds me of.

515
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, fast forward. Okay, so that now the police

516
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: are questioning the brothers, the Cocoralls brothers. Andrew is the

517
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: first to start racking right. We know there are serious

518
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: problems with the interrogation process in general, but his statements,

519
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: beat by beat, appear to confirm pretty much every aspect

520
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 1: of Spritzer's original confession, the one that he withdrew postaste

521
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: when he saw get walk by. Andrew speaks in depth

522
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: about the methods they used to stalk women in this van,

523
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: crimes of opportunity, the roots they took, the knives, the

524
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: wire they used. He even describes at some point the

525
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: use of can openers on the flesh of victims. And

526
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: he recounts not a ton but a small amount of

527
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: details that the police have been yet to share with

528
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: the public. And then he starts speaking about Gekt again,

529
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: and he says Gekt has convinced them of a weird, dark,

530
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: metaphysical thing. He says, you know, these, these breasts of

531
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: our victims have some kind of spiritual power, and that

532
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: by consuming this flesh in specific, one may absorb some

533
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: measure of that power. No, Matt, I want to go

534
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: to you here because I read and watched a lot

535
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: about this and dug in as deep as we usually do,

536
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't see an articulate definition of what this

537
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: power is supposed to be.

538
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 3: Well, no, because Gekt wasn't talking right, I mean, and

539
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 3: he's the only one that made up the thing, so

540
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: he made he made up what this power is.

541
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that makes sense because at no point in

542
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: these investigations are any of the other three members of

543
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: the Ripper crew able to articulate exactly what this power is.

544
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: Thomas Cocrrales is the youngest of the Let's just call

545
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: him a cult right or a group of murderers. He

546
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: is also by all reports, he is also the most

547
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: impressionable and maybe the slowest. It's something that his defense

548
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: will later use multiple times. They will say he's not

549
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: the I'm not sure of the right way to say it.

550
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: They will maintain that he he is not mentally disabled,

551
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: but he's at the threshold, that's what they're arguing.

552
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: Yes, impressionable is just the word. Maybe he seems to

553
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: be very impressionable. So when you're questioning somebody like that

554
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: and putting them under tremendous pressure, the question is how

555
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: much are you leading this person to say the things

556
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: you want them to say rather than telling the truth.

557
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, how much you prompting and priming them? You know,

558
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: this is a mission critical question here. Thomas Cocorus is

559
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,959
Speaker 1: also the last of the four to be questioned, and

560
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: like we were saying initially, he maintains his since he

561
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: fails a polygraph test a lie detector test, and those

562
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: are kind of bs.

563
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: Well, what do we know about that? What does it do?

564
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: What does a light detect test do to a person

565
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: who's being.

566
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: Questioned, Well, depending on how much you know about polygraphs,

567
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: they may affect your response. If you think it's actual science,

568
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: which it very much is not, then you may feel

569
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: pressured or exposed.

570
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, like crap, they've caught me in a lie if

571
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 3: they say you lied, right.

572
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, this guy didn't notice squeeze, Is you know his

573
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: kegel muscles or put some thumb tacks in the bottom

574
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: of his shoe, neither of what work anymore, by the way. Uh,

575
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: and it's laughable that we still use polygraphs as some

576
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: sort of proof anyway. Yeah, you make an excellent point,

577
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: Thomas says, all right, after he fails this polegraph, he says,

578
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: the murder stuff is true, the rituals are real, and

579
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: Robin Gett has powers. It was all him. And if

580
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: we don't do what he says, he has the ability

581
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: to curse us or kill us if we disobey in

582
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: any way. And then he says, you know, there's also

583
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: a Satanic chapel, which he describes in detail, located in

584
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: the attic of the get domicile.

585
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a weird thing that he described. You guys,

586
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: we're talking about the perfect Satanic Panic version of a

587
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: ritual attic, right, red and black crosses painted all in

588
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: the wall. We got candles everywhere that get lit when

589
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 3: there's some kind of ritual going on. There's an altar

590
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 3: with red fabric and a box. Oh what's in the box?

591
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? And Thomas J. Correlli says, this trophy box

592
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: a phrase they use a couple of times contains severed

593
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: flesh from their victims. Always severed flesh from the breast,

594
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: and he says this is true. He says that he

595
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: had seen as many as fifteen separate breasts stored within

596
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: this box. Consuming pieces of this flesh, he told investigators

597
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: was called taking communion, at which point he added, you

598
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: just have to do it, and again, we don't want

599
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: to lose this. Note there are serious problems with the

600
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: interrogation process in the United States. This may have very

601
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: much been a vulnerable person who is being prompted or

602
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: primed to say things that investigators life. And even now,

603
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: the timeline between when investigators get the warrant to search

604
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: the get home and when they're interrogating Thomas, it's a

605
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: low murky, low murky makes you wonder if they knew

606
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: what they were asking for.

607
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, they're trying to get direct evidence, right when

608
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 3: we're looking at the evidence of this case, physical evidence

609
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: that you need to link this group of people to

610
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 3: all of these murders, perhaps even just one of these murders.

611
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: I guess we can say it now that the police

612
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: were kind of they're a bit at a loss when

613
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: it comes to direct physical evidence. They do have the

614
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: van right, they can't link these guys physically to these victims,

615
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: or at least they're having a very hard time doing that.

616
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 3: So having this described attic that would have the tissues

617
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 3: of victims in it, that would be huge. So you know,

618
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: I guess that's the big thing the invest gators are

619
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: looking into and locked in on, Like we can get

620
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: evidence now, Yeah.

621
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: If we can put the puzzle pieces together directly, then

622
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: even without DNA evidence, we do have the bodies ryep

623
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: a dark version of Habeas corpus. So by this point

624
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: the investigators have already learned to keep get away from

625
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: interacting with the other three members of the gang. If

626
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: you have ever been involved in some kind of criminal

627
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: group activity, you know that's part for the course anyway, Right,

628
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: Like if Dylan, Matt, you and Noel and me yours truly,

629
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: if we were all sell it, what's a silly thing?

630
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: If we're all selling counterfeit postal stamps we got we

631
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: got arrested for it, stamp fraud, we would be questioned separately.

632
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: They're not going to sit the five us down and say,

633
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: all right, guys, walk us through how you came up

634
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: with ripping off the post office for thirty seven cents

635
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: a pop.

636
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: I would just say it depends on our social standing,

637
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: because they might just bring us all into an office

638
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 3: and say, hey, guys, what are we doing here?

639
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: Right?

640
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 3: Or they put us all in boxes and then one

641
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: by one we get questioned. And that is not a

642
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: fairly new tactic. That's a known thing. But I guess

643
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: at this point in the investigation, like before we got

644
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: to this point, they were unaware of the influence that

645
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 3: they had on each other.

646
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're also at this point they are certain that

647
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: these men committed these crimes, but to the earlier point,

648
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: they've got almost no physical evidence linking any of them.

649
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: And importantly, they have virtually nothing at all directly linking

650
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: Geck to the murders. So they do get this warrant,

651
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: they do search gets home, and they find it is

652
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: addict exactly what the other people described. There's one key difference.

653
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the candles are there, the drapery, the red cross,

654
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: red and black cross decoration stuff, all that ghastly accoutrement

655
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: is there. But there's one key difference. That trophy box,

656
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: the one that supposedly contains up to fifteen severed breast

657
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: of innocent victims. It's missing, and even now it is

658
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: yet to be found. So there's a very difficult rubicon

659
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: for investigators across. They soldier through the investigation, they do

660
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 1: background checks, they discover more and more troubling stuff. All right,

661
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: the three guys, the other three guys who are not

662
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: Robin Get, they don't really have violent priors, you know

663
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: what I mean. We're looking at what law enforcement would

664
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: describe as you know, low end stuff, speeding tickets, moving violations.

665
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: But Get has just two years earlier been charged with

666
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: a crime called contributing to the sexual delinquency of a

667
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: fourteen year old. He was trying to get a teenager.

668
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, what the hell does that mean?

669
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: That?

670
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: What did he do to her? That's unknown. It's pretty horrifying.

671
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 3: Let's also remember that the police at this point have

672
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: the van, right, they do have the van. They've also

673
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: got Get's home where the men lived. And you have

674
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 3: to remember that Gets lived with a family and children

675
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 3: and these guys, so you have to imagine they probably

676
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: weren't committing these horrendous acts in that home. So you think, okay, well,

677
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 3: then it's the van. That's where the stuff is going down,

678
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 3: but they've got the van and they still don't have

679
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: a bunch of physical evidence, right, They're still lacking that.

680
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 3: So maybe it wasn't happening so much in the van,

681
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: some of it, maybe not most of it. So where

682
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 3: was this going down? And that's when they discover.

683
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: The motel, the moonlit motel which we mentioned earlier. Turns

684
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: out that get and the other three individuals had rented

685
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: rooms at the same motel where Linda Sutton's body was

686
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: later discovered, and they stayed there for quite a long time.

687
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: They stayed there long enough that they had to redirect

688
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: their mailing addresses. That's Jesse, you know, folks, it's a

689
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: long time to stay in a motel. And the investigator

690
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: speak to the manager of the motel, and the manager

691
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: of the motel has a lot of stuff to say.

692
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: The manager notes these men were quote some kind of cultist.

693
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: He says, I think they practiced devil worship. I definitely

694
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: saw them bringing women to the property at all hours

695
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: of the night.

696
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: Such a weird concept of just if you see a

697
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 3: group of a group of men bringing women to a

698
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 3: hotel room, a motel room late at night, you would

699
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: think they're cultists. I do wish we had more information

700
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: on what he meant. Right, Why would you go to cultists?

701
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: Right? Was he himself prompted or primed by the investigators?

702
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 3: Was a pop culture or some pop culture or.

703
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: The satanic panic moral outbreak? We'll get to that. We're

704
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: going to pause for a word from our sponsors, and

705
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: we'll share one more strange wrinkle as the investigation continues.

706
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: We've returned and fellow conspiracy realist. I don't know about you, Met,

707
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: I don't know about you Tennessee, but I'm not sure

708
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: what to make of this one. We do need to

709
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: mention it. As the investigators are digging into the past

710
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: of these four suspects, they find a strange historical coincidence.

711
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: Before the killings associated with the Ripper Crew began, Robin

712
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: get actually worked for another serial killer. He was employed

713
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: by PDM Contractors, creation of the infamous murderer John Wayne Gacy.

714
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 3: You saw this right, yes, because Chalmaye Gacy was also

715
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 3: of Chicago, specifically Norwood Park Township. And it is very

716
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 3: interesting because I don't think it's it's I don't think

717
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 3: it's ever been proven who John Wayne Gacy's associate or

718
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 3: his partner or whoever this person was.

719
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: It was his helper, right, yeah, yeah, similar to his

720
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: son of Sam's stuff. Right, as true crime officionados in

721
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: the audience might recall. At trial and during interrogation, John

722
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: Wayne Gacy hinted multiple times that he had not worked alone.

723
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: In fact, he stated to your point, Matt, that he

724
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: did have an accomplice. He never named this accomplice. He

725
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: said this person was aware of his crimes and joined

726
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: in on some of those. And there was one murder

727
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: that was originally attributed to Gasey, but it occurred while

728
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: he was out of town. He was physically incapable of

729
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: committing that specific homicide. And Gasey responded by saying this

730
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: was the work of his associate, and then also somewhat perturbed,

731
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: he wanted people to know that this associate committed the

732
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: murder without his Proofal so we're detectives. Now, let's put

733
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: our let's exercise empathy, let's put ourselves in the shoes

734
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: of the folks investigating the rippers. We naturally start to

735
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: wonder whether Robin Gekt is indeed that mystery accomplice.

736
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 3: Logical question, the PDM contractor's connection is the strongest thing there.

737
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: That's pretty intense, I think, because this is something while

738
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: Gaysey's on probation that he creates and it's basically just

739
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: doing maintenance or it stands for painting Decorating maintenance PDM,

740
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 3: and that's some of the stuff that get would do

741
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 3: kind of a handyman, do some electric work here and there,

742
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 3: do some maintenance work over here. I don't know if

743
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: they were that close in and form some type of relationship.

744
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 3: And then Gekt is spewing insane stuff about breast tiss

745
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 3: you and how it has powers. I can imagine that

746
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 3: some of those ideas would at least be stirred and

747
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 3: encouraged by somebody like John Wayne Gacy.

748
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I think that's a great point because things

749
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: like this, and I'm not going to call them people,

750
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: things like this can sort of practice a law of attraction. Right,

751
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: So we do know that investigators ask Gekt about Gaysey

752
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: when they discover this connection. Apparently his mask slips just

753
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: a little bit for just a moment. He's not as

754
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: cool as a cucumber, and he smirks and he tells

755
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: the detectives. You know, Gaysey's only mistake was storing those

756
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: bodies under his house and then the walls back up.

757
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: Nothing else. He didn't do anything, says Get. At around

758
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: this time, the public and the news get a hold

759
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: of the story. Four men on paper. If you look

760
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: at him, they're ordinary suburbanites, right, unless you have access

761
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 1: to Gek's earlier the records of his earlier crimes. They say,

762
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: how did these people commit some of the most heinous

763
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: murderers in the history of the state of Illinois. And

764
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: that's why by late nineteen eighty two, at this point,

765
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: the press is giving them various nicknames. A lot of

766
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: them are like muckraking journalism, kind of yellow journalism stuff,

767
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: But the most infamous, which still stick around, are the

768
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: Chicago Rippers or of course the Ripper Crew. The detectives

769
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: are speaking with the Gek's wife. He's arrested by now,

770
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: and she says, like you were saying earlier, Matt. She

771
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: says he had a lot of things that she accepted

772
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 1: as normal but maybe didn't really think about until interrogators

773
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: questioned her. She said, Get was obsessed with pornography. So

774
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 1: at this point in time, pornography pre internet would be nudimags, right,

775
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: He attempted multiple times to cut her breast or to

776
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: ask her to cut her breast in front of him

777
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: as a symbol of love. And then, just like the

778
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: legend of the Pirate, I believe it was blue Beard

779
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: the Pirate, he had a small room in the attic.

780
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: It was locked at all times. Rose was forbidden from

781
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: ever entering. And when she asked him, you know, reasonably,

782
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: as as you would ask her spouse, why can't I

783
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: go into a room in this house? He said, it's

784
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: my meditation spot.

785
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, believe the word for that is sus Hey, if

786
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 3: you have somebody in your life who won't let you

787
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 3: enter into a room or whole section of a house

788
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 3: where you live.

789
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: In, don't trust him.

790
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 3: Maybe get in that room, Maybe get that room post taste, or.

791
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: Or I'm pulling on some horror movie experience here. Just

792
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: beat me, Dylan, get the fuck out of that situation.

793
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but let somebody know first.

794
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: Let somebody know when you are in a safe place,

795
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: like after you have gotten out. People with secret rooms,

796
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: especially if they're in your relationship with you, not a

797
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: good look.

798
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 3: Storage unit, secret vans.

799
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: These diamonds. Right. Yeah, we can see again this pattern

800
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: of control because detectives also learn about how he is

801
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: compelling and recruiting and erasing the self identity of his followers.

802
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: Robin get again go back to this idea of the

803
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: dark antenna. Matt Robin Ghet seemed to have some sort

804
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: of Spidey sense for the vulnerable and the weak willed,

805
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: at least if we believe the statements of the other

806
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: three guys and the police, Spritzer and the Cocoareles brothers. Again,

807
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: they were younger than him. They were adrift, They were lonely,

808
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: yearning for structure, you know, attention, a sense of belonging,

809
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: a sense of purpose that happens to so many people

810
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: when they're young, and get slowly reeled them in. Like

811
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: we were saying earlier, he becomes a kind of patriarchal

812
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: father mentor figure to Spritzer. He gives the kid a job,

813
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: he lets him live in the house temporarily, and then

814
00:58:52,840 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: their friendship includes a series of increasingly ricked rules that

815
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: start as you know, hey, young man, let me help you,

816
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: and then evolve into things like this is what you

817
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: have to wear, this is how you have to talk,

818
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: this is what you're supposed to do. Also tell me

819
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: more about your friends, those little Cocorles kids.

820
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go back to the Gaycy connection one more time,

821
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 3: to that PDM contractors, Cause Gaysey was hiring high schoolers

822
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: to do contract work for him, and sometimes he would

823
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 3: travel with those contract workers, those high schoolers, and he

824
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 3: would have a series of rules for them, and he

825
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 3: was constantly berating them for things and threatening them. You

826
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: know how easy it would be for me to get

827
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: a gun and take one of you out, and that

828
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 3: could hide your body, be so easy, that kind of thing.

829
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 3: And he was also physically sexually assaulting these these kids.

830
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 3: And it makes me think that what if you are

831
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 3: one of those kids and you went through all of that,

832
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 3: you're working for Gaysey right as an accomplice or whatever.

833
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 3: You can imagine the conditioning, the brainwashing type things that

834
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 3: are going on right while you're living through the horrors

835
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: of all of that. It makes you wonder what it

836
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 3: could do to you and would you then employ some

837
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 3: of the same things. Again, we're not saying this direct this,

838
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 3: We're not saying this is an absolute direct connection. I'm

839
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 3: just trying to point out, like I can imagine if

840
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 3: that is true, right, this unknown that exists out there

841
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 3: you could see the pattern being repeated.

842
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: Right, and for the timeline here, folks, just so you know,

843
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: if you're unfamiliar job waging. Gaysey has been convicted of

844
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: the torture, sexual assault, and murder of at least thirty

845
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: three men and boys between nineteen seventy two and nineteen

846
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: seventy eight. Investigators still don't know how many people he

847
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted without in fact murdering them. So it's quite

848
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: possible that there was. It's not impossible. Let me be careful,

849
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: always say that it's not impossible that something occurred to

850
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: Get right.

851
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, just because of proximity and because of that

852
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: connection to the PDUM contractors.

853
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: And the dark antenna right like attracts like perhaps, But again,

854
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, to be fair, if you look at who

855
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: get is targeting and who Gaysey was targeting, the very

856
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 1: different demographics, Right, Gaysey was after boys and this guy

857
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: was after women. Get was, So how does he convince

858
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: this crew, these three drifting kids who have no great

859
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: north Star in their lives. They stay up late. He's

860
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: the cool guy in the neighborhood. Right, he plays the

861
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: loud music, They drink alcohol, drugs are happening probably drugs

862
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: are happenings, according to Thomas. According to Thomas, probably drugs

863
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: are happening. They start to speculate about Satanic rituals. And

864
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: keep in mind, fellow conspiracy realists, this is early nineteen

865
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: eighties United States, so the idea of a Satanic panic

866
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: is already in the zeitgeist. This is a thing that

867
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: you would talk about just in general. This guy escalates it,

868
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: get leverages again what investigators seem to think is almost

869
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: superhuman charisma, and he starts to convince these young men

870
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 1: of disturbing things. First, he says, hey, by the way,

871
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: God has abandoned the world andity is on its own.

872
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: The only way to acquire real power, I get undefined

873
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: real power is through paid and I as your mentor,

874
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 1: as the coolest of the four of us, I was

875
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: chosen for a higher purpose, and I have in turn

876
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: chosen you three to be part of this group. We

877
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: are acquiring power. We're doing it through pain, our acts

878
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: of torture and violence. Those are offerings. By the way,

879
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: you guys want to check out some stuff in my attic.

880
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: It's essentially what he does.

881
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's super creepy. Let's go up in the attic,

882
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 3: and let's do it at an opportune time when the

883
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: kids are asleep downstairs and the wife is away at

884
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 3: work and the waitress thing, we'll just.

885
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: Share a night shift, by the way, Yeah, we'll just.

886
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 3: Come up here and do this thing. I guess. Yeah,

887
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 3: because any he doesn't just make up his own religion, right,

888
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 3: his own cult. He's playing off of stuff that already existed.

889
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's not particularly original in the foundations of

890
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: this shared delusion. He reads from the Satanic Bible. Okay,

891
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: so this is the ritual that evolves into the wife

892
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: Rose is gone, the kids are asleep, the three kids

893
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: are asleep, Deck takes them to the attic of his domicile.

894
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: He reads from the Satanic Bible, and then his followers

895
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 1: repeat the stuff he reads. Then, at some point toward

896
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: the end of their ceremony, they do a perverse version

897
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: of the Catholic Union. They pleasure themselves over the fleshy

898
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: remains of victims. Then they can assume small pieces of

899
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: the flesh.

900
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 3: Well, this assumes that they're already out there killing people,

901
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: right and getting breasts right.

902
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: This is again confirmed by three of the four individuals

903
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: descriptions not the fourth guy, Robert Geck says nothing about

904
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: this stuff. We're investigators. We find ourselves at a crossroads.

905
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: Three of our four suspects have willingly confessed in depth

906
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: to the crimes, included with timelines, details that match our

907
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: earlier inquiries. The attic is discovered, The attic is real,

908
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: it is not a fantasy. Yet Get remains immovable. So

909
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: how did he convince these three again young men with

910
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: no priors nor history of violence to engage in this madness?

911
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: Riddle me this. Why did they each seem to genuinely

912
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: believe this guy had some kind of dark power over him.

913
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: They describe it as hypnotic, irresistible, suffocating, that he could

914
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: push them into action, whether they wanted to do something

915
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: or not.

916
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 3: I really think it's drugs, and Thomas is the only

917
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 3: one you talked about it. I really think there's a

918
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 3: lot of drug use going on during this time, and

919
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 3: like part of that is the person who controls your

920
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 3: supply ends up being really important right for that reason,

921
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 3: and almost subconsciously that leads into other stuff. I think

922
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 3: that's just and that's me speculating completely, but I do

923
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 3: think that's at least part of what's going on here.

924
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: I remember talking with folks around the Charles Manson activities

925
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: where we see that we see something similar to the

926
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: process or outline there with the idea of erasing the

927
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: ego through the use of lucinogenics, in particular in the

928
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: Manson case. I guess we have to be careful because

929
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: we have to realize at the same time there's a

930
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: big narrative about drugs as evil, right, and I'm not

931
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: discounting the fact that that forced ritualized ingestion of intoxicating

932
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: substances can play a big role in erasing self identity

933
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: or agency. But we do have to acknowledge Uncle Sam

934
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: loves painting drugs in a very bad life.

935
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 3: Sure don't mean to be a narch here. I guess

936
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 3: what I'm saying is drugs mixed with influence like that,

937
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 3: and some of these techniques to get someone to do

938
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 3: what you want them to do, they can really work

939
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 3: well hand in hand. Uncle Sam knows that better than

940
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 3: anybody cough, well yeah. And all the other experiments that

941
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: the military has done with drugs to see how they

942
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 3: can affect both our soldiers and the enemy's soldiers, and

943
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 3: the public in general.

944
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: I wish we had, you know what, I wish we

945
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: had pulled off that thing with castro and aerosol LST.

946
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: That would have been amazing.

947
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 3: Shoot Operation north Woods Baby. But there's all kinds of

948
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 3: I guess what I mean is, you can't get a

949
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 3: rationally thinking person to eat human flesh just like that,

950
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 3: right yet that doesn't happen. There's a systematic breakdown of

951
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 3: some sort that gets somebody to do that. And I

952
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 3: would just I would pause it that if these guys

953
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 3: are already engaging in drugs whatever they are, lots of alcohol,

954
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 3: those states that you find yourself in after consuming a

955
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 3: lot of whatever substance are going to be way more

956
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 3: conducive to committing cannibalism than if you're just like, oh, hi,

957
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 3: oh we're going to eat some people now, okay, if

958
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: that makes sense.

959
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah. And Edward sprites are in particular to the

960
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: point about feeling forced into actions. Spriteser in particular claimed

961
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: that he had putd after committing one of these. They

962
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 1: could only definitively prove eight They suspect twenty. Everybody generally

963
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: agrees on seventeen to eighteen. But these committing one of

964
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: these murders at the compulsion of robbing Get, and he

965
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: just pukes. He's disgusted, he's overwhelmed. And then somehow, per

966
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: his own confession, with a bit of prodding, Get compelled

967
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 1: him to continue. Gekt overrode his agents. It made him

968
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: do this. Later you'd see Andrew Cocles claiming that Get

969
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: can simply look at you and force you into action,

970
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: somehow communicating his commands without verbalizing them, without speaking. They

971
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: really thought, at least per the investigation, they really thought

972
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,839
Speaker 1: the guy was in his head. And again and again

973
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: they said to investigators separately, you just had to do it. Get,

974
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: in contrast, always maintained his innocence. He was never convicted

975
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: nor even tried for any of the murders due to

976
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 1: that lack of evidence. We were mentioning, But that survivor

977
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: Beverly Washington did identify Get looking at photographs. She said,

978
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: this is the man who tried to kill me. So

979
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: he gets convicted in nineteen eighty three of attempted murder,

980
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: aggravated kidnapping, something called deviate sexual assaults and rape. And

981
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: I think for people familiar with true crime, you probably

982
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: know the rest of the story. Here the judge at

983
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: the time, Judge Francis Mahone, sentenced Gekt to one hundred

984
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: and twenty years in prison.

985
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, one hundred and twenty years hanging out in

986
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:21,560
Speaker 3: the Danville Correctional Center. Congratulations.

987
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

988
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 3: Well, and he made a statement, I think you've got

989
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 3: that stame of ben some it's relating to just how

990
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 3: on earth would you do this to someone? How could

991
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 3: you do this to someone?

992
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to give it to us?

993
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 3: Hey, yes, And Judge Francis J. Mahone said this quote,

994
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 3: only a devil would do these things. An animal would

995
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 3: not do these things. A monster would.

996
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: So let's go to the other three in before we

997
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: catch up with Gekt. In nineteen eighty four, hoping for

998
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: a better deal sentencing, Edward Spritzer pleads guilty to a

999
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: slew of crimes, including the murders of four victims, Shoy Mock,

1000
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: rose Beck, Davis, Sandra Delaware, and Rafael Torado, again the

1001
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: only male victim we know of the Ripper Crew. Courts

1002
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 1: moved slowly right, so it was not until nineteen eighty

1003
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: six that Spritzer is also convicted of the murder of

1004
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: Linda Sutton. Prosecution in this case seeks the death penalty.

1005
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: The other guys are getting prosecuted as well. Andrew co

1006
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: Corales nineteen eighty five, he's convicted of murder and other

1007
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: crimes related to the death of Rosebeck Davis. Prosecution also

1008
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: seeks the death penalty, but the jury does something interesting.

1009
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: So they deliberate for about i'd say about an hour

1010
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: and a half, and they ultimately come back and they say,

1011
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: this guy may have been an instrument. He may have

1012
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: been a tool who he's a follower, he's not the leader.

1013
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: He definitely was involved, but we're not giving him the

1014
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 1: death penalty. We're giving him life without parole. That's eighty

1015
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 1: five to eighty seven. He gets tried, for, tried and

1016
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:15,560
Speaker 1: convicted on the murder of Lorraine Borowski, still Andrew co Corales.

1017
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: This time they do go for the death penalty, and

1018
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: the death penalty sticks quite literally. He is executed by

1019
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: lethal injection on March seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine. And I

1020
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, Matt, this takes us to a

1021
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 1: subject of great interest. Whereas the fourth of the four Thomas,

1022
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: he's also found guilty of the murder of Barowski, of

1023
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: the homicide, but he agrees to give a full detailed

1024
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 1: confession to avoid the death penalty.

1025
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he does, and he does avoid that death penalty,

1026
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 3: and he gets life in prison. But because some rules

1027
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 3: there in Illinois, he got let out after serving about

1028
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 3: half of his sentence.

1029
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: He got out seventy years.

1030
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 3: Yes, So he gets out in twenty nineteen, in March

1031
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 3: or twenty nineteen, and it becomes a huge story, and

1032
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 3: a ton of the reporting that we're able to find

1033
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 3: here about the Ripper Crew comes from that time around

1034
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 3: June twelfth, twenty nineteen. A little before that, that's at

1035
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 3: least when CBS Chicago is going back over all of

1036
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 3: their original reporting that CBS had done over all of

1037
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 3: these years in the eighties, and they're kind of replaying

1038
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 3: all of the investigation that was occurring when it was

1039
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 3: a story before any of these guys were known. And

1040
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 3: then it's talking, you know, to family members who are

1041
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 3: aghast that only thirty five years, you know, thirty something

1042
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 3: years have passed and now this guy is out and

1043
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 3: he's part of this horrifying group of people that did

1044
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 3: all these things. And then when he gives his first

1045
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 3: major interview there with CBS Chicago, he states that no,

1046
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 3: I was coursed. I didn't say I didn't actually do

1047
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 3: any of these things. I said them because the police

1048
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 3: told me to do them. I was yeah, he said,

1049
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 3: I'm not a monster, I'm a drug addict. I was

1050
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 3: a drug addict and I was a kid and I

1051
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 3: had a bad attitude. Oh wow, that's weird, because then

1052
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 3: it's it leaves you as a viewer of this stuff

1053
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,679
Speaker 3: and a witness to just him sitting there on camera,

1054
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 3: living at this at this place that's kind of like

1055
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 3: a halfway house, a ministry where he's living in Aurora,

1056
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 3: and at least in twenty nineteen he was, and just

1057
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 3: the reaction of the whole town, of everybody that was involved,

1058
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 3: everybody that remembers this story just kind of in shock.

1059
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 3: But then it really it sucks to imagine yourself in

1060
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 3: Thomas's position, and I don't it's not fun to do.

1061
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 3: But if you put yourself in his position just for

1062
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 3: a moment to jar and gain that perspective, I don't

1063
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 3: know how how would you feel like if you're out

1064
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,560
Speaker 3: after half your sentence for these horrifying crimes.

1065
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: And originally we should state folks want you to know

1066
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: that Thomas was up for parole earlier, but was unable

1067
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 1: to that acquire that freedom because he had not located

1068
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: a place to live. As of August twenty twenty four,

1069
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: he's believed to be in Peoria, Illinois. He is not

1070
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 1: in the same boat as Edward Spritzer, who spent decades

1071
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 1: on death row until twenty twenty three. That's when then

1072
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: Governor George H. Ryan, the same guy who signed off

1073
01:16:55,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: on the execution of the other Coca rallies, The Governor

1074
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 1: George H. Ryan commuted all death row sentences in the

1075
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: state of Illinois. So this guy was consigned to death

1076
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: by state execution. He is now in there for life

1077
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: without parole. He remains incarcerated today, as does Robin Ghek,

1078
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 1: still alive as we record in prison. Estimated parole date

1079
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: October tenth, twenty forty two. If Gek does survive that

1080
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 1: long and does achieve parole, he will be eighty eight

1081
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: years old. History is so much closer than it looks

1082
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:42,639
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror.

1083
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,480
Speaker 3: Very true. Maybe he'll write a book.

1084
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: You know what, he might He might make somebody else

1085
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: write a book for him.

1086
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know this, This story, specifically, the van makes

1087
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 3: me think about some of these technologies we discussed on

1088
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 3: the show before, like the license plate scanning technologies and

1089
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 3: some of the tracking uber surveillance state thing that the

1090
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 3: US and many other countries are trying to do. Right now,

1091
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 3: would that be like it almost makes you feel like

1092
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 3: that would be a good thing to have because you

1093
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 3: could track, You could attract that van down after the

1094
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 3: first couple of bodies are found or after the first

1095
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 3: you know, witness comes forward. Right, I don't know, is

1096
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 3: that is that crazy thing? I just I've imagined that

1097
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 3: that would be a really nice thing to have, or

1098
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 3: ubiquitous CCTV again another horrifying part of the police state.

1099
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 3: But dang, you could probably not let something like this

1100
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 3: happen again.

1101
01:18:55,640 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: Possibly, you know, it depends upon the motivations and the honestly,

1102
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,839
Speaker 1: it depends upon the motivations of enforcement, right. It depends

1103
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 1: upon whether or not we see those state level forces

1104
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: as incorruptible. It depends on what we think they would

1105
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: do in pursuit of the truth versus in pursuit of convenience.

1106
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: And look, I don't want to sound folks like I'm

1107
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: casting aspersion when I talk about corruption in Chicago. It

1108
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 1: is a known thing. It is very real. We're not

1109
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 1: being about it, or at least still in a matt

1110
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: are not being dead about it. There's much more to

1111
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: this grizzly tale. I think that's where we leave it,

1112
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 1: because luckily the legal system was in this case able

1113
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 1: to achieve some measure of justice for the victims and

1114
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: their loved ones. But the question I keep going back to,

1115
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: and I think we all should keep going back to,

1116
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: is how exactly was the seemingly normal Robin get able

1117
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: to convince and compel ordinary men to commit such acts

1118
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: of depravity. I mean, we see cases like this around

1119
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: the world, folks like resputant Charles Manson. By all accounts,

1120
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 1: they seem to hold a dark, inexplicable sway over others.

1121
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: Science still can't explain it. That's the question I keep

1122
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:26,800
Speaker 1: going back to.

1123
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, that's a crazy question. But it does

1124
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 3: feel like fear is the thing that they end up using. Right,

1125
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 3: those guys feared get They and he did something at

1126
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 3: some point in his interactions with them that made them

1127
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 3: fear him.

1128
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: He cowed them somehow, right.

1129
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, fear is such a funny thing. Yeah, Lately,

1130
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 3: what I've been thinking about that kind of thing and

1131
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 3: being afraid of anybody or anything in this world I

1132
01:20:55,600 --> 01:21:00,479
Speaker 3: think of. Actually, John Wayne Gacy is a great exam this.

1133
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 3: There's a story about a fifteen year old kid that

1134
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 3: Gasey took on one of the trips for the PDM

1135
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 3: Contractors thing. He took this fifteen year old kid on

1136
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 3: a trip to go do some work and while on

1137
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:22,599
Speaker 3: that trip, Gasey sexually assaulted him and raped him. And

1138
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 3: then they drove back home and the kid, Anthony, was

1139
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 3: so pissed off of what this guy did. He goes up.

1140
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 3: He finds John Wayne Gacy in his front lawn and

1141
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 3: beats the absolute shit out of Gasey his own front lawn,

1142
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 3: and then Gasey has to turn tail and make up

1143
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,600
Speaker 3: stories to his wife about why he just got the

1144
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 3: kicked out of him, And it just it makes you

1145
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 3: remember that anybody like this on this planet currently that

1146
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 3: we inhabit, that is trying to make you fearful and

1147
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 3: scared of anything, is just a dude that could get

1148
01:21:57,439 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 3: the crap kicked out of him in a lawn somewhere.

1149
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 3: So remember that right on.

1150
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, like this is the question again that stays

1151
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: with me. How is a seemingly normal individual able to

1152
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: commit the thought crime right to erase the ego, to

1153
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 1: compel folks and conspiracy realist. As you heard Matt's answer,

1154
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:23,759
Speaker 1: there is fear. I wonder if there's something more than that,

1155
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: because science still can't really explain charisma. And if you

1156
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: talk to the perpetrators of these atrocities there in Chicago

1157
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 1: in the eighties, they will blame Get. If you talk

1158
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: to Get, or you talk to a Manson or you

1159
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: talk to a resputant, they're not gonna yield any real results.

1160
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: They're not going to tell you how they do their

1161
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: how they do their thing. So if there is a

1162
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: true superpower of compulsion, it remains the stuff they don't

1163
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 1: want you to know. We'd love to hear from you.

1164
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: You can find us online anywhere there's an ad sign.

1165
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 1: Just hit Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show you'll get there.

1166
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: You can also call us on the phone, and you

1167
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,559
Speaker 1: can always send us an email.

1168
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 3: Our phone number, sure do you wish to call that

1169
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 3: is one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system.

1170
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 3: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname and

1171
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 3: let us know if we can use your name and

1172
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 3: message on the air. Let us know within the message

1173
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 3: you get it. Oh and by the way, turn those

1174
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 3: letters into numbers. That's how the whole phone thing works.

1175
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 3: When you call in, tell us anything you like, anything

1176
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 3: that this story has conjured in your mind. And if

1177
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 3: you don't want to call a voicemail system, why not

1178
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:44,320
Speaker 3: send us a good old fashioned email.

1179
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence

1180
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: we receive. On a personal note, the holidays are always

1181
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: rough for entities like me, so thank you to everybody

1182
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: who reached out. You can look. You can find us

1183
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: crossroads at midnight, mirrors in a dark room, pour some

1184
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 1: salt in the right directions, or ruines, swing that wija board,

1185
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: plan chet. That's the word around, and we'll give you

1186
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 1: a random fact. Thanks for joining us. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1187
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:36,719
Speaker 1: dot com.

1188
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1189
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1190
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.