WEBVTT - What Does the PKK's Disarmament Mean 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.960 A media. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.880 Hi everyone, and welcome. What could happen here? 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.559 It is a second episode about Kurdistan. I am very 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.280 lucky to be joined today by Vladimir van Wilgeenberg, who 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.880 many of you will know is a journalist covering Kurdistan, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.840 has done excellent work for a lot of publications. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.120 So welcome to the show of Vladimir. Thanks so much 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:25.760 for invitation. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.319 Yeah, thanks thanks for being willing to join us so 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.720 late at night your time. Let's start off by discussing 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.879 an event you attended or the event you were in 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.960 proximity too. By the sounds of it, people will have 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.159 seen this online, I'm sure, but it was the disarmament 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:48.279 of a number of PKK garrillas that took place in 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.879 the mountains of southern Kurdistan over the weekend of the 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:53.440 tenth to twelfth of July. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.320 So yeah, a few days ago, well, I tried to 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:02.240 attend the ceremony from for the biggilas that were disarming. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.559 Basically what happened is that they burned their weapons, although 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.920 technically it's not really possible to burn a weapon because 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.400 there were this colossicals. Basically that they were put they 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.880 put in a fire and it was in like actually 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.720 a tourist cave near doc Kan, so this is not 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.640 It was actually very different because I also have been 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.120 in during the peace process. I've also was in a 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.039 press conference of the pik a K in two thousand 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.920 fourteen or fifteen or some of that around that time, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.720 and that was very different because it was basically in 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.120 the area that the PIKAK is activated. It was in 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.000 the area under their control, but this was under a 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.960 different Kurdish parties control. It's called the patriarch Union of Kurdistan. 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.800 So in Iraqi Kurdistan, you have two main parties, the 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.240 Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and you have the Kurdistan Democratic Party. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.400 So this cave where they did the ceremony, which is 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.520 actually a tourist cave, it's in PK controlled area, so 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.400 the ceremony was sort of protected by PUK security forces. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:03.520 Yeah, and that's why. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.080 Also the PUK media they got a lot of special access, 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.440 and also there was the Turkish government media was there 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.680 and also PIKK media was there and a lot of 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:14.760 other Kurdish TV channels. 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:16.800 So it was a very interesting day. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.720 Although I was not able to pass the checkpoint towards 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.919 the ceremony because at the last moment, actually a few 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.880 days before the ceremony, they. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.200 Changed the access. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.280 Supposedly it will be a very open ceremony, but then 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.160 they said because of security reasons that they had to 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.640 restrict the ceremony and there would be some TV screens 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.520 and stuff. And then I couldn't find the TV screens. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.959 But that's another discussion. But I also don't still understand 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.960 what the security risk was. Although a day before there 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.280 was a drone strike on a Kurdish Peshmarga base, but 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.640 it was like quite far away from that. It was 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.880 one hour away from the ceremony location. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.800 Yeah, and it's an Iranian durned to jake great like 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.239 a Shahi drone. 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.000 Yeah, So there have been like no group has these attacks. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.919 But in the aftermath of the Twelve Day War, there 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.160 have been a lot of drawn strikes in the Kurdistan 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:12.919 region in various areas, including this morning on American Oil 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.840 Company's facility in the Hawk Province and the day before 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.160 that also on another field near Airbill. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.040 So it has been quite tense yeh. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.600 Which also probably affected the ceremony, although it's not really 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:26.359 related to it. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.480 Yeah, it's different. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.960 So yeah, basically what was interesting. So they have this 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.160 peace process between Kurdish rebels and the Turkish state. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.360 It's all started with a. 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.960 Call by a Turkish ultra nationalist leader which actually in 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.560 the past actually called for executing of the Logeland. The 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.360 leader of the Kurdistan Workers Party has been in prison 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:51.880 since the nineties. He was actually surprisingly starting this peace process. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.560 He was saying like we should have him talked in 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.480 the parliament and call for disbanding the pik a K. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.240 So he never came to the parliament, but he released 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.360 messages from prison, and before the ceremony he released also 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.960 a video message where he again focused on disarming basically, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:16.640 and then the ceremony basically came where you have thirty fighters, 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.560 fifteen women, fifteen men, because the PIKK is all about 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.240 woman equality, so that's why they did it fifty to 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.039 fifty and they put their weapons in this fire. So 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.320 I think this also sacrifice a point of renewal because 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.920 Kurts as a tradition, they have this Kurdish New Year 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.040 every year on twenty one March where people jump over fires. 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.719 There's a lot of fireworks and the Kurdish and Atros 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.360 is basically the start of a new beginning. Yeah, so 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.839 I think one of the reasons they chose these fires 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.440 is because of this idea of a new beginning, and 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.520 also the fact that when the PICAK started, there were 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.960 people that sort of the creators of the PIKK. There 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.240 are actually some of them they burned themselves in prison 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.880 in the in the Turkish prison. Yeah, so it's also 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:04.360 sort of related to that. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.960 This sort of interlinks with a fire. Yeah. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.400 And you also saw that they carefully put the weapons 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.120 in the fire, they didn't just throw them. So it's 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.039 it doesn't mean that they have completely given up on weapons, 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:23.800 because they're still waiting on counter steps from the Turkish government. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:29.279 Yeah, Like there has been fighting between p KK or 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.280 hPG or how you want to say it, like hPG 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.680 being like the technically the armed wing. There's been fighting 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:41.800 in southern Kurdistan, like the in Iraqi kig Kerdistan Autonomous 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.440 Region of Iraq since the call for peace right, like, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:45.800 there has been ongoing fighting. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.560 Yeah, I mean it's not really I would not say 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.560 that it's like like actively fighting to take territory, yes, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.000 which was happening before. So it's more that it's some 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:02.560 like Turkish armies shooting artillery on the PIKK, and there 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.480 was also one incident that the Pikk actually responded by drones. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.560 But so far this didn't reach much in the Turkish 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.600 or the Kurdish media. I mean they were like, some 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.279 of this artillery shelling costs some fires, so villagers in 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.800 the areas it's a very hot summer now, they were 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.120 trying to put out the fires. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.640 But it was not like the active, active fighting that. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.919 You had before, okay, And you know, since there was 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.040 also a previous peace process. I mean, there have been 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.960 several peace processes since history between the Pikk and Turkey, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.760 but they never had a positive result. And last one 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.080 before this song was twenty fifteen. And after that peace 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.520 process broke down when two policemen were shot. It's still 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.400 unclear who shot those policemen. The fighting erupted again and 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.080 since then there have been heavy fighting, first in the 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:57.599 Kurdish majority areas of Turkey until basically Turkey defeated Kurdish 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.120 armed insurgents in the Kurdish cities in Turkey, and since 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.440 then actually the fighting has moved more to Iraqi, Kurdistan, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.240 where the PIKK has also a historical presence. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:08.120 Is the nineties. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.800 But what you now have is that we have this 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.680 new piece process started by this call of bats Shelley 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.960 and the big AKA leader O Johan has said the 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.240 time for armed struggle is over. We don't want to 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.520 have a Kurdish date. So basically what now is happening 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.240 is that the Kurdish Pikak and the Kurdish political counterpart 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.480 in Turkey, they're basically waiting for steps by Turkey now 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.040 to give them basically trust to continue this process. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.040 And there was also a speech by. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.320 The Turkish president Erdoland where he was also saying that 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.840 it's the end. We don't need anymore. We need to talk. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.400 It's not a time for weapons anymore. We spend trillions 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.680 of dollars on the war against the Pikak. We had 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.440 this a lot of martyrs and we sacrificed a lot, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.920 and it's now the time to stop the war and 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.600 to do talking. And he said they're gonna work with 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.240 the Kurdish Party and this ultra Turkish nationalist party the 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.000 MHP in the parliament and to also set up a 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.560 commission to basically work on constitutional changes. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.960 Yeah, let's take a break for adverts here and then 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:30.880 we'll come back. All right, we are back. I guess 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.240 we should talk briefly about like the nature of this, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.040 this call for piece. You explained very well that this 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.960 is probably a higher chance of success than that has 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.720 ever been right, Like, we have the explicit buying of Ojulan, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.960 who hasn't been seen on video since the nineties, so 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.600 like to have him making a video statement, it's quite significant. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.800 I'm sure he's been seen on video, but like not 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.160 not like making a speech, right, and then that we 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.400 have like this this endorsement in the Turkish Parliament. Like, 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.000 I think there's been a lot of speculation about what 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.200 led to this, and some of it's not particularly helpful. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.560 But you know, you're very well educated on these matters. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.880 What do you think this means for not just the 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.199 PKK but the k c K. I guess, like the 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.120 Kurdish Freedom movement, that the different movements throughout kurtis down 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.079 they are inspired by the political thought of Aujilan. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.440 Well, I mean, until now, it's difficult to say what 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.000 exactly is going to happen because the BIKK said they're 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.720 going to go there will disarm. But there's other groups 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.320 which are linked to the big K in Iran Iran 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.760 and in Syria and also for instance Sinjar, those groups 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.240 said they were not Some of them have said publicly 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.440 that we're not part of this process or they walk 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.480 on the process, and others they didn't really say much 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.000 to this group, haven't said really a lot. Yeah, so 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.600 it's also going to be interesting what will happen with 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.160 those groups, with the Iranian Kurdish group and also with 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.520 the Serian democratic forces in Syria that have a different 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.760 situation also after the fall of so they have these 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.280 stocks with Omascus. And actually one of the reasons that 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.760 the first peace process broke down was because that in 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.680 actually at that time also that Turkey was a little 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.800 bit afraid of this alliance between the Kurds and the 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.600 Americans at the time against ISIS that was then rising 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.120 up in Syria and attacked the Kurdish town of Coban 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.200 in Syria, which created an alliance between the Kurds and 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:28.120 the US against the ISIS terrorists militant jihadi group. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.760 But now the situation actually is interesting. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.040 So at that time the Curds were empowered in Syria, 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.040 but now you can see there's a completely different situation 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.720 now the opposite way. So now you have the rebels 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.280 that took over Damascus and they are now the government 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.520 run by Jiulani his previous name, who's now called himself 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.880 antal Shada his real name. So they now have a 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.240 new Islamist controlled government and Damascus, and there's a lot 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.760 of tension between the curts in Syria and Theamascus. So 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.920 this could also risk basically this peace process with Turkey 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:07.079 because the SDF they have also ideological ins with the 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.600 pik Ak, so it's also interesting how this will work out. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.640 So in the past it was also always like the 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.840 fighting between Turkey and the Pikak could threaten the SDF Assyria, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.120 but sort of the other way around that fighting between 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.720 possible fighting in the future between Damascus and the Curtain Syria, 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.840 it could threaten the peace process in Turkey and Erdolan. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.880 He made this very big speech not a very long 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.000 time ago where he mentioned that Turkey doesn't only want 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.640 piece for the curse in Turkey and for Alla Whites 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.400 also a religious minority in Turkey, but he was also 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.719 talking that he wants piece for the curse in Syria 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.760 and also in Iraq, that they should also live like 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.560 a prosperous life in Syria, and that they have good 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.160 relations with the Sieran government. So I think that's also 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.760 a very interesting point that you don't see in many articles, 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.080 that there's like this very big interlinkage between all these 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:54.880 different tissues. 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.840 Yeah, and I think Turkey has maintained that the SDF 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.360 is the peak KK, right, just with like a different badge, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.000 which is not the case. They share a lot of politics, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:10.239 but they're distinct. Turkey also has like extensive proxy forces 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.960 in Syria. Right, there have been fighting with the SDF 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.520 since I guess late well, I mean for years, but 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.680 like in an expanded sense, since since the beginning of 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:26.320 the fall of the Asad regime that we saw like 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.120 probably seven or eight months ago. 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.199 Now, it's a very complex situation. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.319 It's also as we record this today on the fifteenth, 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.600 Syria is a very diverse country and add to all 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.560 the groups you mentioned, there is currently fighting between the 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.520 government and Dru's militias. Right, can you explain a little 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.320 bit about the situation there and the relevance of that. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.720 Well, I mean the Druze they are a religious community 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.320 that are not same as the Sunni Muslims, and they 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.960 control their own area on the border the town called 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.360 Sweda and the villages around it, and also they have 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.040 some areas in Damascus where they have their presence. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.560 Yeah, so the Drews basically during the time where. 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.560 The Assad regime still was in power, they didn't really 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.120 like fight very heavily against the Assad regime in the beginning, 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.000 but they didn't allow the Assad regime to recruit military 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.760 recruit people in their area and they sort of tried 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.840 to keep the regime out of their area. So during 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.000 the civil war they were sort of semi autonomous, but 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:28.720 not officially. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.000 And actually in the last years before. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.600 The fall Offasad, they were like a big protests in 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.040 the Drews areas in support of the Syrian Revolution and 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.240 against the Assaut regimes. So they were like very big 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.320 protests in the Druze areas against the Assaut regime. So 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.080 when the Assad regime was militarily weakening and the rebels 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.800 from the other side of Syria they were attacking the 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.320 Assad regime, the Drews they also joined the fight and 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.319 they marched together with the Southern rebels. They marched on 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.400 to Moscus, and they were actually the first one that 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.280 entered the Mouscus, not not the ahmtal Shada or the Hts. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.480 Actually the first ones that entered the Moscus was the 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.320 Southern rebels and the Drews. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.320 But but there's this thing. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.040 Is that the Moscus wants to have this this new 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.719 regime or the new government in the Muscus. They want 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.640 to have this very centralized system, so they don't want 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.480 the Drews to run their own armed groups and they 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.080 have their own sort of local autonomy, so they have 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.000 They have been fighting before between the Drews and the 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.160 new authorities in Syria in areas near Theamascus, but there 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.840 was like a ceasefire and the fighting stopped. But recently 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:43.320 there's also like historical tensions between these Arab Bedouin tribes 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:44.840 and the Drews in the area. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.320 So these areas are quite mixed. So there's actually this 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:49.360 this recent conflict. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.360 They started when Biduan tribes they they robbed like a 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.360 merchant who was a Druce and then after that they 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:01.080 were like mutual kidnapping like tensions between both. And then 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.160 basically although the Moscus said they were neutral, the Mascus 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.360 started to support these Bedouin groups against the Drus and 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.600 started marching on on Sueda, which is the the Drew 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.920 stronghold on the border. 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.760 And so actually there have been like. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.400 A few days, not even a few days, but have 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.440 been like a short period of fighting now. And actually Damascus, 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:27.280 they they entered this druze town of Sueda and they 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.440 actually said, okay, we control the town now, and now 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.080 we're going to withdraw the Serian army and then the 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.960 internal security force is going to control the city. That 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:41.360 very shortly after Israel started bombing heavily the cern armed 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.800 forces of the new Sirn government and then the Drews 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.800 armed groups they sort of pushed back and they pushed 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.240 out this internal security force out of the city. And 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.000 now the Drews are, according to many reports, back in 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.680 control of the city of Zuida. And now you see 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.440 that just like what happened with the Alla Whites when 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.240 there was this Asad regime remnants that they had uprising 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.600 against the new authorities. And then they were like these rebels. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.640 They were mobilized with mosks all over Syria and they 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.200 went to the coast areas and they defeated those Asad 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.440 regime remnants, but they killed also a lot of civilians 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.880 some reports over fifteen hundred people. So what you now 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.800 see is that the Damascus is against mobilizing those people with. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.680 Mosques to march on Zueda. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.480 But the difference is with the other whites is that 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.960 Israel also has Drews, so there's also pressure on the 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.440 Israeli government to support the drew So it's not only 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.960 because of their strategic interests, it's also because there are 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.440 Drews living in Israel itself that also have joined the 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.520 Israeli army, so they're also pushing Israel for taking action. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.480 So you saw that today, like Israel, they took a 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.040 lot of they carried out a lot of air strikes, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.880 and the Drews that are basically back in control of 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.200 most of the Sueda city, not of the whole area. 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.200 But the fight is not all real yet. And then 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.840 you also have different rustractions. Some of them they have 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.679 better relations with Damascus, the majority of them don't. So 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.360 now we're going to see if there's going to be fighting, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.000 if the fighting is going to increase again. We've seen 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.240 our reports as of that the HDS or the the 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.600 Moscus government forces that are using drones strikes by themselves 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.119 on RUS forces, so they're using basically the drones that 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.840 they used to overthrow the us UT regime. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.600 Okay, so yeah, that's the situation. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.680 Yeah, I think the world stopped looking at Syria. I mean, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.960 I guess the world stop looking at Syria a while ago, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.920 like really, after the defeat of the Territorial Calipate. It's 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.760 been much harder to sell stories in big newspapers in 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.840 the United States. But yeah, it's by no means, like 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:48.119 the fighting is not over and it leaves their SDF 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.439 Western Kurdistan branch of this Kurdish movement right, like in 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:58.119 as you said, a fairly perilous condition. Right, the Damascus 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.240 wants to centralize. I think they want to They don't 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.679 want to have independent they don't want to have like 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:09.000 federated autonomy. The United States seems to be, at least 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.520 the United States envoy to Damascus seems to be making 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.840 statements that suggests that, like the only way forward is 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:29.880 through centralization. On one hand, we have the PKK alene 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.439 Gan arm. The other hand, we have the SDF in 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.760 its difficult position. Where does this leave, like the Kurdish 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.560 Freedom Movement. I think this has been the thing that 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:38.960 a lot of people all over the world have looked 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.000 up to. Right, people have especially rich Ava as this 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.879 example that people could build something, a place where freedom 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.240 could exist in the middle of this terrible war in Syria. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.280 Do you think the movement's like in danger now? 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.800 Well, I mean you have this new government in Syria. Actually, 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.879 and in initially to Trump administration was quite reluctant to 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.680 have relations with the new authorities in Damascus because they 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.040 were I mean, Joolani used to be on a Amachada, 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.400 used to be on a terrorist sanctioned list. 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.680 Yeah, there was a bounty for him at one point, 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:12.560 it wasn't there. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.680 Yeah, But I think there was like a very intensive 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.200 love being by some Gulf states and Turkey to basically 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.119 remove the sanctions on not a shot at Jolani, but 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.879 also remove sanctions on Syria that the economic sanctions that 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.320 were actually were on the Asaturgy. So I think the 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.960 Trump administration changed their position, and also a new ambassador 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.719 for Syria and Turkey was appointed, so he was not 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.360 only the bassador Turkey but also for Syria, and he's 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.840 basically echoing a lot of the points of the new 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.720 authorities in Damascus that they was talking about one state, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.760 one army, one days, one days, and the SEF should 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.760 be integrated and blah blah blah. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:50.720 So there was there. 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.520 Was also recently there were talks between Theamascus and the 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.040 STF because in March they reached an agreement with Western 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.159 support and they were trying to basically make them or 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:05.120 finalized agreement in recently a few days ago, they had 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.600 these talks in Damascus and the French were there, and 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.800 the Brits were there, and Americans were there. But this 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.080 agreement was not implemented, it didn't lead to anything, so 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.480 it was not really it didn't really work very well 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.760 because the Moscus is insisting on this centralized state. And 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.000 I was just listening to Kurdish sharing Kurdish official and 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.880 she was also saying like, we don't want to separate 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.159 from Syria, but we want to have some form of 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.840 local councils and a decentralized Syria and not like a 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.359 centralized Syria. And she was also talking about what happened 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.600 to the Jews, that it's not a very good example 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.560 for the future of Syria. Yeah, so I think definitely 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.200 what you're saying that there is a sort of a 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.480 threat because in the past he was very supportive of 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.680 the SDF in the fight against Isis, although they didn't 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.040 support so much their political project, but they supported them 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.040 because they fought Isis. And also they were keeping out 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.760 Iranian backed malicious from areas like the resor. But now 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:02.960 you don't have me run anymore. In Syria, they were 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.240 completely kicked out after the fall of the Acet regime. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.320 All these militias they have been disbanded or hiding or 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.800 some of them actually now being used by the Muscus. 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:12.159 Against the Druze. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.959 So doubt that argument is not there anymore that you okay, 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.920 we have the SDF, they keep out the I ran 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.800 from the oil fields. Yeah, you could still argue you 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.800 have still have the fight against ICES, I mean ICES. 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:24.040 Is still fred. 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.560 Yeah, but the Curts don't have that same leverage anymore 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.359 as is in the past that they said, okay, we're 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.440 the main ones fighting ISS, we keep out the run 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.680 from these areas because now you have THEMSCUS. The Moscus said, 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.440 why the kurt should do that, Like, let's us take 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.800 over those prisons and the camps where you have these 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.600 thousands of Isis families and ICES prisoners, and we don't 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.600