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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: There are big questions about the trajectory for energy prices

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Speaker 2: here as we watch WTI West Texas Intermediate flirt with

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Speaker 2: eighty dollars a barrel now and Brent is looking at

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Speaker 2: that level in the rear view mirror.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 2: It is the Thursday edition somehow already, and we're waiting

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Speaker 2: to hear the latest from the administration when it comes

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Speaker 2: to those operations in Iran. We're already hearing news right

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Speaker 2: now breaking with a redhead on the terminal when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the use of Anthropics AI technology at the Pentagon.

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Speaker 2: Having heard quite a bit of reporting, including great reporting

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Speaker 2: from Bloomberg today, the extent to which of this technology

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Speaker 2: not AI in general, including that yes, but what is

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Speaker 2: coming from Anthropic the platform called claud and a high

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Speaker 2: stakes dispute between the Pentagon and Dario amide the man

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Speaker 2: behind Anthropic, who of course has demanded repeatedly that it's

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Speaker 2: technology not be used for mass surveillance or for human

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Speaker 2: free weaponry autonomous weaponry. The President, as he said earlier

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Speaker 2: in an interview, has already fired Anthropic, and we saw

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Speaker 2: that take place last week, with Anthropic rejecting the counteroffer

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Speaker 2: from the United States and then at least on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: word that the company had been deemed a supply chain risk.

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Speaker 2: We are now running a red headline on the terminal

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Speaker 2: and it's coming from the Pentagon. It has told Anthropic

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Speaker 2: formally now that the firm is a supply chain risk,

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Speaker 2: even though it is using its technology or has been

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Speaker 2: until this last hour in operations in Iran. Aanthropic has

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Speaker 2: had no immediate comment on the decision. Tegon notification to

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Speaker 2: Anthropic has been confirmed by a US official, realizing that

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Speaker 2: this is something that had only been stated to our

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Speaker 2: knowledge on social media until now. Much of this technology,

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Speaker 2: again has been used in theater here with helping to

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Speaker 2: prioritize targets as an element of the Maven smart system

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Speaker 2: that is made by Palents here. We're going to have

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Speaker 2: a lot more on this as we learn more throughout

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Speaker 2: the day here because if this is in fact a

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Speaker 2: supply chain risk, as the Pentagon is now informing Anthropic,

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Speaker 2: that means every other defense contractor working with the Pentagon

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Speaker 2: will have to cut ties with Anthropic, and that could

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Speaker 2: be quite a project unwinding the use of this technology,

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Speaker 2: which has many tentacles in many different companies and areas. Here,

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Speaker 2: we do want to follow the bead on what's happening

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Speaker 2: in Iran. The President putting a grade on operations on

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Speaker 2: this now sixth day. Listen to the President live from

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Speaker 2: the White House.

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Speaker 4: We're doing very well on.

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Speaker 3: The warfront.

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Speaker 5: To put it mildly, I would say, somebody said, on

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Speaker 5: a scale of ten, where would you're ready, I said

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Speaker 5: about a fifteen, and we're going to continue to do.

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Speaker 5: We have the greatest military in the world by far.

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Speaker 4: You see it as well as I do.

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Speaker 5: You see the tremendous progress that's being made. The missiles

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Speaker 5: are being wiped out rapidly, their launchers are being wiped out.

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Speaker 2: That was from yesterday at an unrelated event. By the way,

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Speaker 2: he spent quite a bit of time talking just off

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Speaker 2: the top of his head about Iran. Because this is

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Speaker 2: the story of the moment that certainly is the case.

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Speaker 2: For our colleague Jeff Mason Bloomberg White House Correspondents on

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Speaker 2: the North Lawn right now and joins us with the

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Speaker 2: very latest here.

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Speaker 3: Jeff, it's great to see you.

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Speaker 2: We're coming off an important war powers vote in the

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Speaker 2: Senate that surprised no one. Of course, that bill failed,

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Speaker 2: almost giving the president a green light. Here by way

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Speaker 2: of that failed vote, we talk about the war in Iran.

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Speaker 3: Is the war a war?

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Speaker 6: Forgive me for chuckling at that, but there is this

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Speaker 6: really interesting debate over semantics going on in Washington, which

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Speaker 6: is exactly.

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Speaker 3: The question that you just asked. President Trump is referring.

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Speaker 6: To the operation in Iran as a war.

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Speaker 4: He used that language.

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Speaker 6: He used that word in his announcement about it in

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Speaker 6: the early hours of Saturday when the.

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Speaker 3: Operation was underway.

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Speaker 6: Republicans on the Hill, however, are reluctant to use that word,

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Speaker 6: probably because it is something that they don't want to

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Speaker 6: concede that the President didn't come to Congress and ask

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Speaker 6: for approval, which is constitutionally what is required for a

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Speaker 6: declaration of war. So you have Democrats sort of throwing

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Speaker 6: their hands up and saying, well, obviously it's a war

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Speaker 6: and Republicans not wanting to use that language even though

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Speaker 6: the commander in chief is.

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Speaker 7: Well.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, Jeff, do we have a sense of how the

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Speaker 2: president is spending his time here? Is he in the

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Speaker 2: situation room now that he's back in the White House,

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Speaker 2: realizing that he was at moral when the initial strikes

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Speaker 2: took place. We heard earlier that Pete Hegseth sees him

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Speaker 2: every day. What is this mechanism like to the extent

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Speaker 2: that it's running inside the White House?

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Speaker 6: Sure, he's got a handful of meetings on the public

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Speaker 6: schedule that was released to the press today, a couple

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Speaker 6: policy related meetings. I can't tell you for sure if

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Speaker 6: he's in the situation room or in the Oval office,

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Speaker 6: but I can tell you that he can hold these

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Speaker 6: types of meetings pretty much anywhere he wants, as long

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Speaker 6: as it's in a secure spot, which he also has

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Speaker 6: at Mar A Lago, which, as you mentioned, is where

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Speaker 6: he sort of presided over the beginning of the war

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Speaker 6: several days ago.

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Speaker 2: Jeff, the President told Axios when his phone rang a

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Speaker 2: little while ago, and I find it amazing that he's

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Speaker 2: taking all these calls from reporters that he must play

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Speaker 2: a role in choosing the next leader of Iran?

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Speaker 3: How would that work?

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Speaker 2: And is that something that we would work with Israel

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Speaker 2: or other partners in the region on.

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Speaker 6: I think we're asking the right question, how would that work? Indeed,

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Speaker 6: and the President didn't exactly spell that out and hasn't

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Speaker 6: spelled that out. In fact, you played a clip earlier

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Speaker 6: from his remarks yesterday about giving himself a grade for

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Speaker 6: how well the war was going. He also said, I

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Speaker 6: think this was yesterday, that the list of potential leaders

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Speaker 6: to take over and Iran was narrowing because they were

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Speaker 6: all dead. So and he didn't give more specifics about

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Speaker 6: who he had in mind, but it is interesting that

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Speaker 6: he's saying the US would like to have a role

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Speaker 6: in that. That's sort of again part of the broader

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Speaker 6: question of what happens when this is over? What is

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Speaker 6: the endgame number one? And what happens to the country

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Speaker 6: and the leadership and the next steps wants the strikes

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Speaker 6: are over?

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Speaker 2: Jeff, I appreciate it, as always, Jeff Mason, live from

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Speaker 2: the White House on an important day here as we

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Speaker 2: prepare to speak with Israel's.

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Speaker 3: Ambassador to the US.

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Speaker 2: We want to go back to the baseline and reset

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Speaker 2: with the administration is framed as the justification for this

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Speaker 2: war and also what the objectives are to accomplish the mission.

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Speaker 2: Here's the Press Secretary Caroline Levit from yesterday in the

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Speaker 2: briefing room.

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Speaker 3: The truth is, we'll have to wait and see.

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Speaker 8: The President has said repeatedly that the objectives of Operation

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Speaker 8: Epic Fury are the four military objectives that I laid

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Speaker 8: out for you previously. To destroy Iran's navy, to destroy

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Speaker 8: their ballistic missile capacity, to ensure their proxies in the

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Speaker 8: region can no longer harm Americans, and to also ensure

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Speaker 8: that they can never obtain a nuclear weapon. As for

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Speaker 8: what comes next for Iran, the President has said, of course,

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Speaker 8: it's a good thing for the United States to want

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Speaker 8: freedom for the Iranian people, and ultimately we hope that

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Speaker 8: freedom rests in their hands.

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Speaker 2: Caroline Levitt from earlier, As we add the voice of

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Speaker 2: doctor Michael Lighter, Israel's ambassador to the United States, with

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Speaker 2: US live now on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Mister ambassador,

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Speaker 2: thank you for the time on what I know is

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Speaker 2: a very busy time for you. Do you share the

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Speaker 2: same objectives? Does the US and Israel share this same

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Speaker 2: objectives in outcomes when it comes to Iran, or are

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Speaker 2: there more things that Israel would like to see.

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Speaker 9: A level of collaboration between Israel and the United States

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Speaker 9: is unprecedented on every level. The Prime Minister and the

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Speaker 9: President speak frequently, the chiefs of staff speak frequently, several

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Speaker 9: times a day, and our pilots are meeting over the

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Speaker 9: skies on the way to Iran and fighting wing to wing,

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Speaker 9: shoulder and shoulder. In terms of the objectives, I think

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Speaker 9: that they're very clear. We cannot have the world cannot

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Speaker 9: have a regiemement aaron which tries.

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Speaker 4: To attain a nuclear weapon. We see these ballistic missiles.

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Speaker 9: Reining into all of our neighbors right now, crashing into hotels,

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Speaker 9: into airports, into civilian buildings. Imagine for one moment that

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Speaker 9: they had a nuclear warhead on these ballistic missiles, they'd

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Speaker 9: use them.

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Speaker 4: That's what we've been saying for years.

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Speaker 9: This operation is intended to eliminate the possibility that they'll

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Speaker 9: be a regime that will use ballistic missiles, that will

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Speaker 9: develop ballistic missiles with a malign intent, that will try

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Speaker 9: to enrich uranium, and that will explore terror through their

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Speaker 9: proxies around the region. The potential here once Uran is defeated,

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Speaker 9: once this regime is defeated, is for an expansion of

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Speaker 9: peace and Abraham Accords throughout the region.

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Speaker 2: I know that the US and Israel have been working

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Speaker 2: in concert militarily and with regard to intelligence at just

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Speaker 2: about every turn here, but US officials have gone out

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Speaker 2: of their way to point out that Israel conducted the

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Speaker 2: strike against the Ayatola and his lieutenants who were meeting

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Speaker 2: last weekend.

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Speaker 9: Why is that, Well, what we've achieved by cutting off

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Speaker 9: the head of the snake, the leadership in the first

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Speaker 9: forty seconds we took out forty of the leaders is

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Speaker 9: because the cracks in the system are now beginning to

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Speaker 9: be apparent to everyone, this kind of wild firing of

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Speaker 9: the missiles as a result of the fact that there

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Speaker 9: is not a consistent chain of command. So the importance

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Speaker 9: of taking out the supreme leader, who's really given the

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Speaker 9: shall we say, ideological theological backdrop for this regime that

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Speaker 9: has exported terrorism, mayhem, and murder and destruction throughout the region,

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Speaker 9: was very, very critical for the war effort, and I

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Speaker 9: think we're seeing the results of that right now.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your answer ambassador, But I just wonder was

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Speaker 2: it the US or Israel who determined that that would

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Speaker 2: be in Israeli strike.

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Speaker 9: I don't think you expect me actually to get into

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Speaker 9: a discussion of operational planning here. This is being conducted

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Speaker 9: in close collaboration, on precedented collaboration, and the operation all told,

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Speaker 9: is going very well. We see the chaos going on

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Speaker 9: right now throughout Iran. They have not been able to

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Speaker 9: or refuse to bury the Supreme Leader. They haven't chosen

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Speaker 9: a successor to him. There is tensions within the IRGC,

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Speaker 9: They're beginning to turn on each other. And we're beginning

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Speaker 9: to see the opposition in Iran coalesce and unify. And

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Speaker 9: that's really where this leads to go and where ultimately

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Speaker 9: it will go. With the people of around themselves will

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Speaker 9: in fact the regime change.

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Speaker 4: They'll be the boots on the ground.

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Speaker 2: President Trump saying today in an interview with Axios ambassador

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Speaker 2: that he wants to play a role in choosing the

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Speaker 2: next leader of Iran. Is that something that Israel would

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Speaker 2: join him in deciding. Is that something that will be

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Speaker 2: determined by these two nations or more.

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Speaker 9: It's a little bit above my pay grade when the

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Speaker 9: president intends to be involved in.

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Speaker 4: The choosing of the successor.

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Speaker 9: I would say this that we are working very closely

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Speaker 9: together to ensure that the various opposition groups in Iran,

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Speaker 9: which really that's been the key for forty seven years,

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Speaker 9: they haven't been able to coalesce. Were they able to

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Speaker 9: coalesce earlier, they probably would have brought this regime down.

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Speaker 9: Hopefully they'll be able to do it now. And if

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Speaker 9: these minority groups come together. We have to remember eighty

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Speaker 9: percent of the country opposes this regime. We have pulled

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Speaker 9: this extensively through our Mossad and we know that eighty

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Speaker 9: percent of the country opposes this regime. And we saw

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Speaker 9: what happened last month when tens of thousands of people

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Speaker 9: were murdered by this regime, but many millions came out

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Speaker 9: to the streets. So if they coalesce and they come

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Speaker 9: together and unify, there's going to be a different regime.

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Speaker 4: And if we could influence that together.

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Speaker 9: And help them get on board with a transitional government

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Speaker 9: that would ultimately move the country into a democratic process,

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Speaker 9: well that will be that will be just a consequential

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Speaker 9: not only for Iran, but for the entire region.

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Speaker 2: Can the US and Israel help ensure that they are

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Speaker 2: not murdered again.

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Speaker 9: I think that if we're successful in taking a part

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Speaker 9: this terror infrastructure that exists under the Iatolas, it's not

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Speaker 9: going to be simple, but we've had tremendous.

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Speaker 4: Achievements so far.

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Speaker 9: This is just the sixth day of the war and

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Speaker 9: they're left without a navy, they're f without missile launchers,

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Speaker 9: They're in complete chaos. We've taken out their command centers

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Speaker 9: and terror on their production of ballistic missiles. So I

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Speaker 9: think we have a good shot at finishing this soon

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Speaker 9: and then moving into a mode of stabilization where the

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Speaker 9: opposition that comes together will indeed be safe.

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Speaker 4: I think that the eighty percent of.

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Speaker 9: The population that wants to rid themselves of this heavy

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Speaker 9: theological boot on their necks is going to look into

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Speaker 9: the future together collectively. I mean, after all, this is

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Speaker 9: a society which is very pro West. I mean, after

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Speaker 9: the people of Israel, the Iranian people are probably the

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Speaker 9: second most pro Western society in all the Middle East.

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Speaker 4: So there's great there's great potential there. We just have

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Speaker 4: to see ourselves through this very difficult.

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Speaker 9: Period of war, and it is undoubtedly, you know, difficult

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Speaker 9: any time to conduct war, but sometimes necessary to.

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Speaker 4: Defeat evil, and this is one of those cases.

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Speaker 9: We have to move this regime out of the Middle

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Speaker 9: East to stop threatening regional security and exporting of terror.

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Speaker 2: Ambassador Later, in our remaining moment, there are reports that

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Speaker 2: Iranian Kurdish forces based in.

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Speaker 3: Iraq are or are.

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Speaker 2: Are mobilizing armed units are prepared to enter Iran. There

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Speaker 2: are separately reports that the CIA is arming them actively.

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Speaker 2: Would you support their involvement and would Israel rule out

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Speaker 2: its own boots on the ground.

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Speaker 9: Again, I think the boots on the ground are really

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Speaker 9: the boots of the Iranian people, these minorities that have

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Speaker 9: had boots on their necks the whole time since the

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Speaker 9: Iotola came to power nineteen seventy nine. Again, it's the

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Speaker 9: Iranian people. The Kurds are one of the main minorities

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Speaker 9: in Iran. Of course, there are Zeri's, there are Malushi's,

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Speaker 9: there are many others. If they come together and pick

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Speaker 9: up their arms and use their boots to march on Tehran,

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Speaker 9: they are going to be part of this march into

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Speaker 9: the future which we'll see a new Iran and a

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Speaker 9: new Middle East.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ambassador I appreciate your time very much. Michael Leder,

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Speaker 2: Israel's ambassador the US Live on Bloomberg TV and radio.

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Speaker 3: We thank you.

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Speaker 2: More breaking news coming out of Washington, and we've had

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Speaker 2: quite a number of headlines today. The Wall Street Journalist

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Speaker 2: now reporting that President Trump is preparing to fire Christy Noms,

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Speaker 2: the Secretary of Homeland Security who was beaten up quite

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Speaker 2: a bit from members of both sides of the isle

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Speaker 2: in two days of testimony on Capitol Hill and following

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Speaker 2: her management of ice that included two fatal shootings in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 2: During those raids, Christinome maybe on the way out. The

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Speaker 2: White House and Department of Homeland Security did not respond

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Speaker 2: to quest comment for this story. The President reportedly sent

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Speaker 2: to fire Christinome, stay with us on Balance of Power.

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Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockleay,

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Speaker 1: and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can

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Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

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Speaker 1: York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty, among the.

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Speaker 2: Other stories that we are talking about is a breaker

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Speaker 2: here in a Wall Street Journal headline that just went up,

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Speaker 2: Trump preparing to fire Christineome. This is not the first

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Speaker 2: time we've heard this, but in this case, advisers familiar

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Speaker 2: with his thinking are making it clear. The President has

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Speaker 2: been asking aids in congressional Republicans, which we've seen in

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Speaker 2: other reports as well, for names of potential replacements. Tip

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Speaker 2: sheets this morning talked about a president calling Republican leaders

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Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill to see if they thought she should

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Speaker 2: be fired and what the confirmation process for her replacement

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Speaker 2: might include. Knowing that this has not been a good

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Speaker 2: week for Christino, the Secretary sat for two days of testimony,

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Speaker 2: one day before the Senate, another before the House, and

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Speaker 2: as she found, even some Republicans were very distressed about

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Speaker 2: her leadership of the Department of Homeland Security, including Republican

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Speaker 2: Tom Tillis of North Carolina.

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Speaker 3: Listen, what we've.

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Speaker 7: Seen is a disaster under your leadership, Miss Noan. I'm

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Speaker 7: giving you a performance evaluation here. I'm not looking for

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Speaker 7: a response, and I'm saying Miss Nome that Tom, after

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Speaker 7: time after time, I've been disappointed. If I believe the

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Speaker 7: President recognized that you weren't getting it done in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 7: The fact that you can't admit to a mistake which

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Speaker 7: looks like under investigation, it's going to prove it. Miss

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Speaker 7: Good and mister pretty probably should not have been shot

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Speaker 7: in the face and in the back. Law enforcement needs

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Speaker 7: to learn from that. You don't protect them by not

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Speaker 7: looking after the facts. We expect exceptional leadership, and you've

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Speaker 7: demonstrated anything but that. If I don't get an answer

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Speaker 7: to these questions, if I don't get an answer that

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Speaker 7: you've had a month to respond to, and the remaining

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Speaker 7: ones as of today, I'll be informing leadership that I'm

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Speaker 7: putting a hold on any on block nominations until I

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Speaker 7: get a response.

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Speaker 2: Reminding all of us we don't want to be yelled

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Speaker 2: at by Tom Tillis. But it wasn't just Tillis. He is,

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Speaker 2: of course retiring and is in a class of his

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Speaker 2: own opposing the president on a number of issues. But

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Speaker 2: John Kennedy, the Republican from Louisiana, calling out the secretary

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Speaker 2: as well for the more than two hundred million dollar

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Speaker 2: ad campaign that she's said President Trump approved that is

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Speaker 2: still running on television sets around the country. Let's assemble

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Speaker 2: to our political panel for their take on what appears

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Speaker 2: to be in imminent firing. Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis,

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Speaker 2: a Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital, and

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Speaker 2: Adam Hodge, managing partner at Bully Pulpit International, or Democratic strategist. Adam,

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Speaker 2: you're a spokesperson for the National Security Council in the

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Speaker 2: last administration. You understand the messaging that is required for

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Speaker 2: a job of that sensitivity, and of course for a

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Speaker 2: secretary to be sitting before members of Congress like she

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Speaker 2: did this week that was said to be the final straw.

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Speaker 2: Do you think she's as good as gone.

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Speaker 10: And means she sh never should have been hired in

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Speaker 10: the first place, Let's just be clear. And she's done

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Speaker 10: a pretty abject job as Secretary of Homeland Security ever since.

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Speaker 10: And they does not just rest on the pretty terrible

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Speaker 10: immigration crackdowns that have obviously, as you said, left two

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Speaker 10: Americans dead and countless others injured. It has stained America's

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Speaker 10: reputation around the world. And I think the fact that

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Speaker 10: she was so unprepared for the hearings and that you've

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Speaker 10: seen that damn break of Republicans in the Senate clearly

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Speaker 10: coming after one of the president's own nominees. It just

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Speaker 10: is another distraction, another bit of chaos from the administration

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Speaker 10: when they can ill afford to have any bit of

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Speaker 10: that type of bad news circulating.

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Speaker 2: All right, Bloomberg's got the story now, Rick, Trump leaning

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Speaker 2: toward removing Nomas Homeland Security chief follows contentious congressional hearings.

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Speaker 2: I am acutely aware, Rick, of how many elected officials

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Speaker 2: and members of the military top brass you have helped

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Speaker 2: prepare for congressional hearings murder boards, I think some folks

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Speaker 2: call them.

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Speaker 3: Was this the final straw? In your opinion?

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Speaker 2: Would she be fired without what took place this week?

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that there was a trend toward her

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Speaker 11: needing to go. Obviously, the point that Senator Tillis pointed

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Speaker 11: out in the hearing that the mess in Minneapolis had

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Speaker 11: to be taken away from her and given a Tom

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Speaker 11: Holman at the White House was I think the last straw.

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Speaker 11: And at that point in time, you saw people within

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Speaker 11: the administration willing to sort of stick their neck out more.

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Speaker 11: And then of course this cavalcade of criticism at the hearing,

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Speaker 11: and as you point out, I think one more influential

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Speaker 11: people in the Senate is Senator Kennedy, and he took

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Speaker 11: her face off. The reality is she made the mistake

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Speaker 11: of throwing Trump under the bus on what was clearly

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Speaker 11: a flattering ad campaign to put her out in front

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Speaker 11: of the American people and given on a no bid

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Speaker 11: contract to friends of hers. That what maybe was the

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Speaker 11: last straw that broke the camel's back. But look, I'm

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Speaker 11: not going to deny it. It's been a one criticism

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Speaker 11: after another from Republicans and Democrats.

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Speaker 4: On the Hill.

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Speaker 11: People and the administration are frustrated.

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Speaker 4: That they haven't been able to get things done.

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Speaker 11: And when we do this all under the guise of

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Speaker 11: her agency is shut down because the government funding and

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Speaker 11: so I think maybe there's a deal in there where

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Speaker 11: we can get this agency back working and find an

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Speaker 11: acceptable replacement for her that could actually get confirmation.

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Speaker 4: But I wouldn't take bets on any of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, Adam, leave it to Rick Davis to

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Speaker 2: remind us of the news the department is closed. We're

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Speaker 2: still in a partial government shutdown that no one is

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Speaker 2: talking about, largely because ICE is funded and the other

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Speaker 2: agencies haven't started missing paychecks yet. But it was suggested

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Speaker 2: by a number of folks in this studio, Adam, and

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Speaker 2: you've probably been part of these programs that might be

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Speaker 2: the trigger for a deal to reopen it, that removing

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Speaker 2: Christine Om in concert with Democrats might bring them to

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Speaker 2: a vote. Now, knowing that Homeland security has taken on

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Speaker 2: a different level of urgency since the strikes against Iran,

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Speaker 2: could this precipitate the reopening of DHS.

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Speaker 10: I'm highly skeptical of that, Joe, and looking talking to

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Speaker 10: some of the leadership on the House side, there's just

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Speaker 10: no political appetite and political will for Democrats to reopen

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Speaker 10: this agency without the fundamental reforms that are still needed now.

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Speaker 10: Just because the President took us into an ill advised

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Speaker 10: illegal war that is making us less safe doesn't mean

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Speaker 10: that you then empower the agency that is in charge

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Speaker 10: of protecting us against threats here at home from failing

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Speaker 10: to do their job if they're not adequately doing the

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Speaker 10: job today. The reforms that are on the table are simple.

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Speaker 10: There are reforms that the Republicans should be able to

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Speaker 10: agree to, things like wearing body cameras, no masks on agents,

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Speaker 10: using a warrant to actually enforce immigration as stipulated in

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Speaker 10: the Constitution. Those are simple reforms that should be able

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Speaker 10: to to be put in place, and the White House,

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Speaker 10: quite frankly, given the risk that they've increased on the

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Speaker 10: American people with this war in Iran, should come to

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Speaker 10: the table, accept those reforms, reopen the agency, and then

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Speaker 10: keep America safe. That should be the way that this

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Speaker 10: thing is resolved.

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Speaker 2: We should note that no final decision has been made

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Speaker 2: here in our reporters Jeff Mason and Miles Miller sharing

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Speaker 2: the byline make that point. And Trump frequently changes his

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Speaker 2: mind on personnel matters. So you get a leak like

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Speaker 2: that out there, he finds out who put the news out,

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Speaker 2: and something else happens. But assuming this is real, Rick Davis,

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00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: does Corey Lewandowski follow her out the door and is

444
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: there a short list to replace her with Tom Holman

445
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: be on that list?

446
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: I don't know if Tom.

447
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 11: Holman's going to be on that list, and I don't

448
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 11: know if he could make it through a Senate confirmation

449
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 11: considering how high profile he's been throughout the course of

450
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 11: this year on deportations and other issues. The reality is

451
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 11: Corey Lewandowski is only there because Christy Nomes wants him there,

452
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 11: So if she's gone, I would think he's gone and

453
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 11: that has been enough.

454
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: All right, Rick, I think we're breaking up just a

455
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: little bit. We'll reconnect with Rick Davis. Your thoughts on that, Adam,

456
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: does such a list exists?

457
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 10: Well, obviously, I don't think anybody is going to get

458
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 10: through with democratic support in the Senate at this point.

459
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 4: What I would love to.

460
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 10: See is someone who with real gravitas and experience across

461
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 10: the aisle enforcing our immigration, yes, but also just with

462
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 10: real a sense of public service and a way to

463
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 10: actually help address the needs of the American people.

464
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: Christy nom was a TV talking head.

465
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 10: Yes, she was governor South Dakota, but her whole thing

466
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 10: since she's been in that office has been doing TV ads,

467
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 10: and so the Senate is right to call her out

468
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 10: for it. I think the President is, you know, smart,

469
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 10: He'll try to find someone who could competently run an

470
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 10: agency that is not gunning American people down in the street.

471
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: You know, they're throwing Mark Wayne Mullen's name around. I

472
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 2: don't know if you've heard about this. Punch Bowl had

473
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: that this morning.

474
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: And asked him. He said, that's something I just don't

475
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: want to talk about right now. We'll discuss that later, Adam.

476
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: Doesn't that mean yes?

477
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 10: I mean that seems a little bit like the deal

478
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 10: they struck in Montana. Re Steve Danes quit and they

479
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 10: already had his replacement, you know, on the on the

480
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 10: steps to file and replace him. I think, you know,

481
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 10: Mark Mullen has been obviously a huge champion of the administration.

482
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 10: I don't know that that changes the tone and tenor

483
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 10: that we need in the immigration enforcement that it would

484
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 10: create a more safer, a more saner immigration policy that

485
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 10: respects the rule of law, that respects the Constitution, and

486
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 10: keeps the American people safe.

487
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: That's all we're asking for. We're back with Rick Davison

488
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: just a minute left here. Rick, is Mark Wayne Mullen

489
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: a realistic suggestion in this case? Or maybe I'll just

490
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: say it out loud. Somebody suggested this earlier and I'm

491
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: not going to put their name on the air.

492
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: What about Ken Paxton?

493
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: If Donald Trump endorses John Cordon, wouldn't that clean things

494
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: up in Texas and take care of this real quick?

495
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 11: First of all, I'm blaming the Department of Homeland Security

496
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 11: for all my technology problems here today. Look, I think

497
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 11: the reason you hear Mark Wayne Mullen being talked about

498
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 11: is because there is an unwritten rule that if you've

499
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 11: got a United States Senator up for confirmation, they get passed.

500
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 4: And so that may.

501
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 11: Be one of the very few options that the president

502
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 11: has that he knows can actually get confirmed.

503
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 3: And I think it does change.

504
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 11: The narrative around Department of Homeland Security pretty well. Ken Paxon,

505
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 11: I don't think there's any way that guy could get confirmed.

506
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 11: I mean, he has such an that a policing function

507
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 11: just be well. I guess in keeping with some of

508
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 11: the other appointees that we've had in this administration, but

509
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 11: I think that's a stretch to think even Republicans would

510
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 11: vote for Ken Paxson.

511
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: I had asked Adam Rick if the removal of Christinom

512
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: might hasten the reopening of the Department.

513
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: Could this draw some Democrats to a yes vote? Seeing

514
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: her leave?

515
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 11: Oh, I got to believe that if John Tune knows

516
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 11: that the President is going to relieve her duty, he's

517
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 11: sitting in you know, his counterparts office, saying, let's make

518
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 11: a deal. We're going to take her out, and here

519
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 11: are some other things we're willing to say yes to

520
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 11: let's get this thing.

521
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: Reopened, because we are only one.

522
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 11: Bad incident away from an Iranian assault on our homeland,

523
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 11: that it becomes a very big deal that the Department

524
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 11: of Homeland Security is not open for business. Cybercom, you know,

525
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 11: the Coast Guard, other policing agencies of America.

526
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: Do you not share that view, Adam Hodge.

527
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: We've had a number of Democrats mentioned to us that

528
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 2: this is a different political environment now than it was,

529
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: say last Friday. The strikes against Iran and the threat

530
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: of domestic terrorism here changes. The equation is that not

531
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: being felt by Democrats on the Hill.

532
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 10: I mean, Joe, we talked about this on Sunday. I

533
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 10: agree that this warner Iran has made the American people

534
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 10: less safe. I agree that there is a greater threat

535
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 10: to the homeland from whether it's bad actors or homegrown

536
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 10: terrorists being inspired by the war that we're seeing in Iran.

537
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 10: That does not change the fundamental nature of what is

538
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 10: needed to reform the Department of Homeland Security. And I

539
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 10: just from talking to Democrats on the Hill, I just

540
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 10: hear zero appetite without to reopen DHS without those fundamental

541
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 10: reforms and again they're very simple. Following the constitution warrants,

542
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 10: no masks on the agents, and using body cams.

543
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 4: Those are three simple things that.

544
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 10: If the White House and the Republicans are serious about

545
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 10: protecting the American people, they should agree to reopen the agency,

546
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 10: find a new leader that's badly needed, and keep the

547
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 10: American people safe.

548
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: That's not a huge lift.

549
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: Well, we went into overtime with our great panel for

550
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: a good reason, and I thank you both for walking

551
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: us through some breaking news here. Bloomberg Politics contributors Adam

552
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: Hodge and Rick Davis stay with us on Balance of Power.

553
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: We'll have much more coming up after this.

554
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

555
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

556
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

557
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,320
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558
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

559
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: Another development here in this story that just keeps on moving,

560
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: and we have another redhead crossing the terminal. Now, if

561
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: you were with us about three minutes ago, it's now reality.

562
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: Mark Wayne Mullen to be the next Secretary of Homeland Security.

563
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: There's a reason why his name was being floated. As

564
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: the President of the United States takes two social media.

565
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: I am pleased to announce that the highly respected United

566
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: States Senator from the great state of Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullen,

567
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: will become the US Secretary of Homeland Security effective he

568
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: says March thirty first, twenty twenty six. The current Secretary,

569
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: I am reading this for the first time. As you

570
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: hear me, Christinome, who has served us well and has

571
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: had numerous and spectacular results, especially on the border, will

572
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: be moving to be Special Envoy. You get this for

573
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: the Shield of the Americas, our new security initiative in

574
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: the Western Hemisphere. We are announcing on Saturday in Doral, Florida.

575
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: It's not even announced yet. I thank Christy for her

576
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: service at Homeland in quotation marks, so this is not

577
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 2: a firing and there will be no confirmation process presumably

578
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: whether it have to be right, Christy Nome is being

579
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: reassign as Special Envoy for the Shield of the America

580
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: is Mark wayn Mullen will presumably then become acting Homeland

581
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: Security Secretary. He doesn't use that word. On March thirty first,

582
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. This is something that is just developing

583
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: before our eyes. Is Emily available right now, the vice

584
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: president of the Defense and Security Department, the Center for

585
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: Strategic and International Studies CSIS, jumps in to help us

586
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: with this story right now, Former director for Iran at

587
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: the National Security Council, Emily Harding.

588
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: Emily, thank you.

589
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: I didn't think we'd be talking about this today. What

590
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: do you make of this quick evolution, at least in

591
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: terms of the headlines today and specifically the choice.

592
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 12: I mean, the president has been known to make the

593
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 12: decision that he thinks is right in the moment. I

594
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 12: do know Senator Mark Wayne Mullen. He's a pleasure to

595
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 12: deal with. I've briefed him many times. I think he'll

596
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 12: do a great.

597
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: Job, a great job.

598
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: Will confirmation be an issue or are we going to

599
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: have an acting secretary for the foreseeable future?

600
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 12: I mean, that's a difficult question to answer. I think

601
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 12: that senators tend to be very kind to their own.

602
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 12: He's got a lot of good relationships on the hill,

603
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 12: and I think that'll certainly play well for him.

604
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's really remarkable here to see a turn like this,

605
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: and I wonder how concerned you have been with a

606
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: DHS that has been closed now for the better part

607
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: of a couple of weeks, even as the domestic terror

608
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: threat increases.

609
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, I think it's an interesting question. The

610
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 12: way that DHS is reworking itself is certainly a pivot

611
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 12: moment in history. I particularly focus on cyber issues, So

612
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 12: watching what's going on at CIZA, where we're trying to

613
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 12: sort of reset the way that we think about domestic

614
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 12: cyber has been difficult to watch. It's definitely a really

615
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 12: important issue and that I hope that Senator Mullen has

616
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 12: time to focus on it.

617
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: Well, I'd love to hear from you about that a

618
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: little bit more, Emily, as we break the news here

619
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: and now you have a redhead on the terminal, Mark

620
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: Wayne Mullen tapped by President Trump to be the next

621
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: Secretary of Homeland Security. We understand that cyber activity, and

622
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 2: I heard some of this in the CrowdStrike conference call

623
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 2: the other evening, cyberactivity from Iran has been increasing.

624
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 3: How capable is Iran in this sphere?

625
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 12: They really are quite capable. As we look at sort

626
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 12: of our adversaries across the planet in the cyber domain.

627
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 12: You definitely put Russia China at the very top, but

628
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 12: China has been a rising power, but Iran is right there.

629
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 12: We've seen them get increasingly aggressive with their cyberactivity. They

630
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 12: seem to be less constrained than others, perhaps in the

631
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 12: way that they think about attacks on civilian infrastructure. They

632
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 12: went after our elections once upon a time. They've also

633
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 12: gone after domestic infrastructure in the US and water infrastructure,

634
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 12: and that's quite concerning. So far, we're only sort of

635
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 12: starting to see indications that cyber is going to be

636
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 12: a factor in the current war, but I would expect

637
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 12: for them to engage in that domain extensively at some point.

638
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the President spoke a bit and not

639
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: a lot by design about the extent to which we

640
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: used cyber in Venezuela by knocking out the lights and

641
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: helping to advantage our militaries the United States employing those

642
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 2: same technologies in Iran.

643
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 12: It does seem that way that there's this layered effect

644
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 12: that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has talked about

645
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 12: Dan Kane, where you have joint operations between Space Force,

646
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 12: Cybercom and then various branches of our military sort of

647
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 12: all operating in concert to create total superiority over Iranian

648
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 12: air defenses and over the Iranian military in general. And

649
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 12: if you can disrupt the command and control within a

650
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 12: country like Iran, it can be very difficult for them

651
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 12: to ineffect fight back against an overpowering military force. So

652
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 12: we are saying that cyber warfare can make a big difference,

653
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 12: especially in sort of setting the terms and conditions for

654
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 12: a fight.

655
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: You know, both governments Washington and Tehran are promising a

656
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: more intense phase in the bombing and missile war that

657
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: we're witnessing here. Will there be a more intense phase

658
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: when it comes to cyber Is does such a thing exist?

659
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: So it's hard to say at this point.

660
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 12: I don't want to second guess what the Pentagon's going

661
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 12: to do next. But really what we've seen cyber be

662
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 12: effective at is two pieces. Number one is, like I said,

663
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 12: this disrupting of command and control, and number two was

664
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 12: really the psychological warfare. So so far in this fight,

665
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 12: we have seen that disruption piece. We saw Internet connectivity

666
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 12: in Iran drop off dramatically the morning that the bombing started.

667
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 12: There's still sort of an open question on how much

668
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 12: of that was the US Israel trying to disrupt communications,

669
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 12: and how much of it might have been Iran in

670
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 12: part shutting down their own capability so that protesters and

671
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 12: others couldn't coordinate inside Iran. And then the other piece

672
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 12: is this psychological piece. So we've seen Israel in particular

673
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 12: engage in psychological attacks where they do things like they

674
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 12: hacked apparently a religious calendar app. It's Ramadan right now,

675
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 12: so people use their calendar apps to do things like

676
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 12: see when the prayer time are, see when they can

677
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 12: break their fast at the end of the day, And

678
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 12: messages appeared on one of these apps that said things

679
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 12: like it's a time for reckoning, abandon your regime. Anyone

680
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 12: who speaks out against the regime will be given amnesty,

681
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 12: And this is really a way to try to undermine

682
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 12: the power base of the Iranian regime. We've kind of

683
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 12: gotten past those first two phases. There might be a

684
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 12: time close to the end of the bombing campaign where

685
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 12: you see the psychological aspect reappear and perhaps trying to

686
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 12: do things like punch some holes in Iran's VPN firewall

687
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 12: so that the Iranian opposition can in fact talk to

688
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 12: each other about coordination, about pushing back on whatever remnant

689
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 12: of the regime is leftover.

690
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: Wow, fascinating, Emily, what do you make of the talk

691
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: today about the next regime? President Trump, in an interview

692
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: with Axio, says he must play a role in choosing

693
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: the next leader of Iran.

694
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: Is this a plausible scenario? How would that work?

695
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 12: The Iranian people have had experience with foreign leaders trying

696
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 12: to pick their leadership before. It's never gone especially from

697
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 12: this really well, So it does seem like maybe this

698
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 12: is Donald Trump attempting to impose his will upon a

699
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 12: population that maybe doesn't want it. That said, I think

700
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 12: that what Trump is thinking about is what happened in Venezuela,

701
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 12: where you had what has been so far a very

702
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 12: smooth transition of power from Maduro to the remaining part

703
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 12: of the regime there. And I think what at some

704
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 12: point what the US is going to want is a

705
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 12: stabilization of the situation, and one way to do that

706
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 12: is to have leadership in place that maybe isn't a

707
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 12: total break from the previous regime, but could in fact

708
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 12: keep the country in a more stable and forward moving

709
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 12: place and might be willing to do things like negotiate

710
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 12: about the future of the nuclear program and the future

711
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 12: of the missile program, but the Iranian people are going

712
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 12: to be very i think insistent upon trying to pick

713
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 12: that person themselves.

714
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just got a pretty remarkable piece of news

715
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: in the President tapping Senator Mark Wayne Mullen to be

716
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: the next Secretary of Homeland Security, which is something that

717
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: we're going to be covering throughout the day, and if

718
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: you're just joining us, this just emerged in the.

719
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: Last couple of moments.

720
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: A redhead on the terminal as the President reassigns Secretary

721
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: Christinome to an entirely different job and an organization and

722
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 2: a new effort that's going to be announced this weekend,

723
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: something that we've been talking to Emily about as well.

724
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: And we're going to have another update coming up from

725
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: the White House. Just lastly, Emily, sometimes the most simple

726
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: questions draw the most interesting answers. We've talked so much

727
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 2: about the decentralized nature of the Iranian regime.

728
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: Who is running Iran now?

729
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 12: So one of the things you really need to understand

730
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 12: about Iran is that it is a full fledged bureaucracy

731
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 12: of a government. They have a succession plan in place

732
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 12: for nearly every position. Most people who are in power

733
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 12: inside Iran have really bought into the idea of the regime.

734
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 12: That means that it's not a decapitation strike like you

735
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 12: might have seen in Venezuela or else where. There's going

736
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 12: to be many, many layers down of people who are

737
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 12: invested in a robust and fairly healthy bureaucracy. So in

738
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 12: every position, I mean, even though the Israelis are saying

739
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 12: they're going very deep inside the hierarchy of each organization,

740
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 12: you're going to have people step up and sort of

741
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 12: understand enough that they can keep the country going. I

742
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 12: think it's pretty much anybody's guess at what point that

743
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 12: starts to teeter and fracture from the inside and the

744
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 12: government just can't continue to function. But you can guarantee

745
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 12: that internal security is going to be their number one

746
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 12: goal and their top priority.

747
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: Emily, I'm really glad you couldjoin us, and I appreciate

748
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 2: your insights. Emily Harding from CSIS the Center for Strategic

749
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: and International Studies, where she is Vice president of the

750
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: Defense and Security Department. A great voice of experience that

751
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: we try to bring you every day here on Bloomberg

752
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: TV and Radio. The Thursday edition to Balance of Power

753
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: brings a lot of breaking news, and this is the

754
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: latest one. President Trump I am pleased to announce the

755
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: highly respected United States Senator from the great state of Oklahoma,

756
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: Mark Wayne Mullen, he writes, will become the United States

757
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: Secretary of Homeland Security at the end of this month,

758
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: March thirty one. Bloomberg's Jeff Mason is back with us

759
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: from the North lawn of the White House as he

760
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: carries half of the byline on this story. Jeff, congrats

761
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: on getting this scoop here. We have a lot of

762
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: questions about how all this is going to work with

763
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: the current Secretary again, Christinome, who the President says has

764
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 2: served us well.

765
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 3: We'll be moving to a new role as special envoy

766
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: for this Shield of the Americas. If you've not heard of.

767
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: This, that's because the President says the new security initiative

768
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: in the Western Hemisphere will be announced on Saturday in

769
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: derral Florida, and presumably Christinom will be at his side.

770
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: This follows a couple of days of very difficult testimony

771
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 2: for Christino on Capitol Hill, once before the Senate and

772
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: again before the House, in which, as we determined earlier

773
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: this hour and reminded you, there were a number of

774
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: Republican lawmakers grilled Gnome, including Tom Tillis, including Senator John

775
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: Kennedy of Louisiana, which apparently was the breaking point for

776
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: President Trump in this conversation. Here's a taste of what

777
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: the Secretary heard from Senator Tillis.

778
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 7: What we've seen is a disaster under your leadership, misnown

779
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 7: I'm giving you a performance evaluation here. I'm not looking

780
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 7: for a response, and I'm saying Misnome that time after

781
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 7: time after.

782
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: Time, I've been disappointed.

783
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 7: If I believe the President recognized that you weren't getting

784
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 7: it done in Minneapolis. The fact that you can't admit

785
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 7: to a mistake, which looks like under investigation, it's going

786
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 7: to prove it. Miss Good and mister pretty probably should

787
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 7: not have been shot in the face and in the back.

788
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 7: Law enforcement needs to learn from that. You don't protect

789
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 7: them by not looking after the facts. We expect exceptional leadership,

790
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 7: and you've demonstrated anything but that. If I don't get

791
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 7: an answer to these questions, if I don't get an answer,

792
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 7: that you've had a month to respond and the remaining

793
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 7: ones as of today, I'll be informing leadership that I'm

794
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 7: putting a hold on any on block nominations until I

795
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 7: get a response.

796
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: That will not be necessary, as it turns out, the

797
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: President writing that Gnoam will move to be Special Envoy

798
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: for the Shields of the Americas. Jeff Mason is with

799
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: us live from the White House. Jeff, we only have

800
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 2: a minute. Congrats on this scoop. I'm just curious. Will

801
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: Mullen be an acting secretary?

802
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 6: Well, it's a good question. He the President said that

803
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 6: he would be taking over on the thirty first, But

804
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 6: anyone who's going to be part of the cabinet has

805
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 6: to be confirmed. So one could conclude that the fact

806
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 6: that he put a date on that as to when

807
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 6: he's taking over means that it will be enacting in

808
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 6: acting DHS secretary, because there wouldn't have there wouldn't be time,

809
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 6: I don't think to get him confirmed before then.

810
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: You ever heard of this new security initiative, the Shield

811
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: of the Americas.

812
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 6: It was news to me, Joe, Yeah, I think that.

813
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 6: I think the key headline here is he's fired someone,

814
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 6: and that hasn't happened that often during this first term.

815
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 2: This is the first one, right, Jeff Mason got the

816
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: first firing. I mean, I guess if you don't include

817
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: Michael Wallas. That was another reassignment. Christy Noman is out

818
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: at DHF at DHS, Jeff Mason.

819
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: Easy for me to.

820
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: Say with the scoop and I thank you Jeff for

821
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: bringing that to us. Here live on Balance of Power.

822
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. This is Bloomberg.

823
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

824
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

825
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

826
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

827
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.