1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Of all the staff writers at the New Yorker magazine, 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: Susan Orlean covers perhaps the most ground thematically and geographically. 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: She's been embedded with fertility, shamans and Bhutan, and orchid 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: thieves in Louisiana. She's profiled a dog, a boxer named Biff, 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: and the entire city of Midland, Texas. She combines a 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: deep emotional understanding of her subjects with rigorous reporting, and 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: she spends pretty much as long as she likes on 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: each project. If that weren't enough, her book The Orchid 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Thief inspired adaptation one of the more successful art house 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: movies of the past twenty years. Her most recent book 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: takes as its heroes the librarians and archivists of Los 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: Angeles County. Her entree to this story was her shock 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: upon hearing for the first time just three years ago 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: about the six arson at l A's Central Library. The 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: fire is mostly unknown outside southern California, overshadowed by the 17 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Chernobyl event, but it's our Alexandria, the most devastating library 18 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: fire in American history. So we have four hundred thousand gone, 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: just gone. The whole collections. The l A Library had 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: the largest cookbook collection in the US. They're out of print. 21 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: They're gone. I mean, they had car manuals for every 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: make and model of cars, starting at the model t irrecoverable. 23 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: It had been developed. Librarians developed these collections over the years, 24 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: finding these books, putting them together. So each library is 25 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: also unique in that way. What's in the New York 26 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Public Library is not the same as what's in the 27 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: l A Public Library, but the core stuff. And while 28 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: you can quantify it, you can say four hundred thousand books. 29 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: The library was founded at the turn of the century. 30 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: Many of these collections had been built from that time, 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: and that can't be fixed by money. And it's like Fantasia. 32 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: It's an incredibly beautiful building that is a sort of 33 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: combination Art Deco Egyptian downtown, right in the center of downtown. 34 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: And this was the central library of the entire l 35 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: A Library system in it was in bad shape. It 36 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: was a time when downtown l A was in bad shape. 37 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: People weren't even sure that it was important to have 38 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: a library. Downtown Los Angeles has changed. It's unrecognizable from 39 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: when I first came here. No one lived inland that 40 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: what Nola Wood lived in Silver Lake in Los VELAs. 41 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: The air quality was so poor that everybody lived as 42 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: far west as they could afford, and nobody lived downtown. 43 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: Describe what happened um April. A fire alarm went off 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 1: and everybody thought it was a false alarm. The library 45 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: had a lot of false alarms, and lo and behold, 46 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: firefighters found smoke in the fiction section. Suddenly it absolutely erupted. 47 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: I mean, you can imagine a fire in the library, 48 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: that's the perfect environment. More than that, it wasn't only 49 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: that it was books. It was in the stacks, which 50 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: are almost like chimneys. They were thick, concrete walled tubes 51 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: filled with books. Biggest library fire in the history of 52 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: the US, which at the time I heard about it, 53 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: which was very recently, I am shocked. You would assume 54 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: there would be coverage in the New York papers. So 55 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: I went back to look at what was going on 56 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: that somehow obscure. You're this news. There's a little story 57 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: on the front page in the New York Times saying 58 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: radiation detected in Scandinavia was the Chernobyl meltdown, and I 59 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: had kind of forgotten how terrifying that had been. Nobody 60 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: knew what was going to happen, and it really was 61 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: days of the New York Times being wall to wall 62 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: Chernobyl coverage because we none of us knew if this 63 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: fallout was going to end up traveling around the world. 64 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: In fact it did, but the Chernobyl I don't want 65 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: to digress on this, but I had lived in Los 66 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: Angeles pretty much full time, the only time of my 67 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: life that I lived only in l A. And in 68 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: December eighty five and moved back to New York. So 69 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: you just missed and well, I and I commuted back 70 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: and forth forever, but I was mostly in New York 71 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: and Chernobyl was six and I was living in New 72 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: York at the time, and remember that never heard a 73 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: word about this fire. Yeah, so how do you first 74 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: become familiar? How did this cross your desks? I had 75 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: just moved to l A. And I was offered a 76 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: tour of Central Library by the head of the Library 77 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: Foundation because I had done a little fundraising thing for them, 78 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, I've never actually been to Central 79 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: Library in l A. And libraries had really come back 80 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: into my consciousness when I had a kid and started 81 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: taking my son to the library and was reminded so 82 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: powerfully of what it is like as a child to 83 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: go to a library. And it was really vivid and 84 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: very poignant for me because my mom had just developed 85 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: Alzheimer's and I was thinking a lot about our trips 86 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,559 Speaker 1: together to the library, so libraries were on my mind. 87 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: When I was offered this tour of Central Library, I thought, 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: oh great, so I went down there was really struck 89 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: by the building because it's so beautiful. And as we 90 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: were walking through on this tour, Ken Brecker, who is 91 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,799 Speaker 1: the head of the foundation, pulled a library book off 92 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: the shelf and he took a deep whiff of it 93 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: and I thought, I guess I'm new to l a. 94 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: Maybe that's the way people do it here. What do 95 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: I know books? Actually, it's a nice thought. And he said, 96 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: you can still smell the smoke and some of them. 97 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: And I said, oh, did they used to allow smoking 98 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: in the library And he looked at me like I 99 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: was crazy. Of course, he said no, the fire And 100 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: I said what fire And he said the big fire, 101 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: the fire in six that shut the library down for 102 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: seven years. And my jaw just dropped and I said, 103 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: what tell me about this? And how did I never 104 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: hear about it? Because the more I learned, more I 105 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: learned the scope of the fire, the more amazed I was. 106 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: That was one of those stories that was kind of 107 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: hiding in plain sight. So my interest in writing about 108 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: libraries then had this hook because besides just being a 109 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: chance to write about my feelings about libraries, it was 110 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: a chance to write about this event that was fascinating. 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: I mean both the investigation into it, the reason that 112 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know about it, the libraries recovery from it, 113 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: and all of the emotions around it, which we're really 114 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: powerful because obviously people in l A knew about this, 115 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: and for seven years that library was closed, the main library, 116 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: the library still around. He just passed away. We spent many, 117 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: many many hours on the phone. He's he was an 118 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: amazing care during His name was Wyman Jones and he's irascible, um, arrogant, fascinating, 119 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: multi talented guy who was an amateur magician, very talented 120 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: magician and jazz pianist who's also this head of libraries. 121 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,559 Speaker 1: He had come from running the libraries in Fort Worth, 122 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: Texas and was the head of the library system in 123 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: l A for twenty years. Very opinionated. He actually believed 124 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: that central Library should be torn down and that the 125 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: land should be sold and there should be a new 126 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: library built somewhere else. But he conceded the point when 127 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: public opinion rose up to preserve the building. So why 128 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: if back then, when the fire happened and it was 129 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: closed for seven years in that area isn't favorites, why 130 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: did they bother resurrecting the library. Well, there were a 131 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: lot of people who made the argument that there was 132 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: no need for a central downtown library and that the 133 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: city could function very well just having branch library. And 134 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: those people who wanted to resurrect it, how did they 135 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: win the day. I can't say that people had the 136 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: ability to see twenty years into the future and realized 137 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: downtown would be renovated um the way it's been, because 138 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: I was downtown in that period of time here as 139 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: a visitor and no one lived down here. It was 140 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: desolate at night. So the idea that the library would 141 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: be a centerpiece in a revitalized downtown sounded ridiculous. But 142 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: these people really had the hope that downtown would turn 143 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: into a thriving part of the city. But there were 144 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: also people saying the building is too small, we should 145 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: tear it down, sell the land, will get all sorts 146 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: of money for the land, and we'll build another central 147 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: library somewhere else. Yeah, and that there was a very 148 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: strong um kind of movements supporting that. Now, looking back, 149 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: I would say, we're really lucky that that didn't happen. 150 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: Is there a hero of the preservation cause absolutely there 151 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: was a woman named Margaret Bach and another architect named 152 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: Barton Phelps. A number of architects got together and said 153 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: we have to preserve the library. And that actually was 154 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: the first organized group doing any kind of historical preservation 155 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: in l A. So we have them to thank that 156 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: that grew into being the l A Conservancy, which has 157 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: preserved all these Loutner houses, all these Schindler houses that 158 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened if the library hadn't been threatened. Now, 159 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: described the devastation of losing that volume of these things 160 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: to them, precious volumes of beautiful books. Who did you 161 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: talk to about that? I spend time with a lot 162 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: of the librarians who many of whom are now retired, 163 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: who were here at the time the librarians were devastated. 164 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean they had spent their entire professional lives developing 165 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: the collections in their departments also, and I found this 166 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: really touching. They were absolutely frantic over the prospect of 167 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: the patrons not having the library to come to. And 168 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: the city of l A hired a psychologist to work 169 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: with the librarians because a lot of them really were 170 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: suffering kind of PTSD and they had seen their life's 171 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: work go up and smoke. They care. They care about 172 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: books in a way that you probably you do on 173 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: the park as your this is your stock and trade. 174 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: But uh, you know similar, I guess to art, where 175 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: there's an inventory of material that exists purely for a 176 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: humanistic reason. People who work there are horrifically underpaid. I 177 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: was guided recently by a New York Time writer, uh, 178 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: to the plight of libraries in Iowa, and we were 179 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: my wife and I have a charitable foundation, my family, 180 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: and we were pointed towards this group of people. And 181 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: there's three libraries she's been in touch with who are 182 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: struggling too. I spoke to I said to one of them, 183 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: I said, what do you need? I don't want to 184 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: assume anything. I said, what do you need and how 185 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: much money? She said, the budget for the library is 186 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. I said, I said, wait a second. 187 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: I said, you mean like a day or a week 188 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: or and she said no, no, She said everybody's volunteers 189 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: and part time people, and no one's getting paid. And 190 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: she's books are given to us. She said, books we 191 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: don't need. She said, what I need in this library, 192 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: it's food. I need money for food because the kids 193 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: are coming here and asking for food and they want 194 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: to eat. They come from poor homes. And I thought 195 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: the average person just can't appreciate how much they must 196 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: have suffered. Yeah. A number of librarians um marriages fell 197 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: apart in the wake of this. They were really pressed 198 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: and out of a job, yeah, and felt useless, felt 199 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do with themselves. One woman 200 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: librarian told me she didn't get her period for for 201 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: four months after the fire. She was under so much 202 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: stress and she was so dismayed. I think it's very difficult. 203 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: I think it would be the only analog I can 204 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: think of is if your house burned down. When Dick 205 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: Cavitt's house, one of the Seven Sisters houses in Montalk, 206 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: the Stanford White Houses on the bluff there in Montalk. 207 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: The house burned down. A good deal of what was 208 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: his on the personal level was destroyed in the fire. 209 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: The house was ruined, and for that reason, I keep 210 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: nothing of any value like that in my Long Island home. 211 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: It's in storage in the city because I'm terrified of 212 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: a fire. It's terrifying. And interestingly, the insurance coverage that 213 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: a library has covers the building and not the contents, 214 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: so the insurance did not cover the cost of the 215 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: lost books. It's like two million dollars worth of books. 216 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: The money had to be raised. It was raised by 217 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: tiny donations from school kids, big donations from the Getty Foundation, 218 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: from some of the studios George Lucas, Sydney Sheldon Um. 219 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: There was a real rallying in the city, and I 220 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: suspect it was a lot of people who had never 221 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: really before given the library much thought. Well, of course, 222 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: all books now in the world we live in existed digitally. 223 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: Everything is on a file somewhere and backed up, and 224 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: there's no fear that that's going to be raised forever. 225 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: This fire, because it was so epic, did it launch 226 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: some kind of program where people could preserve these books 227 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: better and in case this happens and these fabled collections 228 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: aren't lost. It's interesting because, um, the fire occurred right 229 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: at the moment when technology was first entering library management. 230 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: The l A library at that point switched to an 231 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: electronic catalog because even losing the card catalog was devastating. Yeah, 232 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: I mean they had to read catalog two million books 233 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: they didn't even know. And that was actually one of 234 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: those odd pieces of timing that electronic cataloging was just 235 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: becoming widely available. So l A had to read catalog 236 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: all of its books. Anyway, it was purchasing all of 237 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: these new books to replace the ones that were lost, 238 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: but the books themselves all new books. Digital copy exists, 239 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: but of old books they Google has a huge project 240 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: where they are digitally scanning old but they don't exist 241 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: on a file that that book is it. Yeah, and 242 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: they're gonna make a file. I mean for an individual 243 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: library to do that, it's probably Google. Yeah. And so 244 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: we are putting more safeguards in place so that if 245 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: you had a devastating fire and you lost these rare 246 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: in many cases, now I think there is a backup 247 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: on the other hand, the l A Public Library has 248 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: the largest or one of the very largest collections of 249 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: maps and atlas is of any library in the country. 250 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: They have over two thousand. It would take a very 251 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: long time and a lot of money for them to 252 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: digitize all of them. That's the goal, because that would 253 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: be fantastic to have all those maps, a digital copy 254 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: of all of them. But it's it's an enormous amount 255 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: of work for a library to do. For me, what 256 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: I find interesting with a book like this, You don't 257 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: make it into a detective story. You don't build this 258 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: book in that way. This book is a lot of history. 259 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: How does the book begin to emerge? And how do 260 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: you piece together? I guess what I'm asking is, how 261 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: does Susan Lean write a book? What do you do? 262 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to answer that question, actually for myself. 263 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: But what I do I have a My approach is 264 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: to throw my net as wide as possible in the beginning, 265 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: to have no preconceived idea of what the book has, 266 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: show me everything, just I want to learn everything. The 267 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: way I look at it is in the beginning, I'm 268 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: a student. I'm I'm doing a graduate course in the library. 269 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: Library history, the history of this particular incident with the fire, 270 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: the people who work there. The people who work there 271 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: now what the day to day life is of a library, 272 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and in the course of it, you know, and the 273 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: history of arson and the history burning books, in the 274 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: course of world of events, which sadly has been a 275 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: theme since the beginning of time. As I'm doing all 276 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: of this and gathering so much material, themes begin emerging 277 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: to me. And what this was about was storytelling. We 278 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: are creatures who tell stories, We preserve stories, and we 279 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: make stories up about yourselves. And I feel like this 280 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: was about the story of the library, and the library 281 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: is the repository of stories. The people who became very 282 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: interesting to me in the book, like Harry Peak, the 283 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: person who is accused of starting the fire, of Charles 284 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: lammis one of the really fascinating characters who ran the library. 285 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: These were people who were who made up stories about themselves, 286 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: who created stories around the who they were in the world, 287 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: even more than the average person. So as that theme 288 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: began to emerge, it helped me organize this material and 289 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: begin pruning away at what was important for me to 290 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: know but wasn't important to put in the book. I 291 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: chose to start the book with Harry Peak because I 292 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: think people are more interested in people than they are 293 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: in places or events that a book that invites you 294 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: in through a character is often one that you're willing 295 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: to keep reading. And he as a person who was 296 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: a compulsive storyteller otherwise known as a liar, he symbolized 297 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: so much of what the book was. He's a kind 298 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: of classic creature of l A, a want to be actor, dreamer, 299 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: a drifter, how old at the time of the event 300 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: he is in his to Ennis, And he also kind 301 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: of intersected with l A history in a very interesting way. Um, 302 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: and I won't necessarily tell you the de nument of 303 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: his story, so that will leave a little bit of mystery. 304 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: But even the way he left this earth was very 305 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: much a part of what was going on historically in 306 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Yeah, but my challenges. I like writing about 307 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: things I don't know anything about. So I begin as 308 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: a student and then I become a teacher, and I 309 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: try to turn to readers and say, let me teach 310 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: you about this amazing thing I learned about, And like 311 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: a teacher, I have to figure out how can I 312 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: tell you this story in the most compelling way that 313 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: keeps you engaged. And I don't have to include every 314 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: single thing that I learned, because there's just too much, 315 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: but instead create a narrative that will bring you into 316 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: the story and you can follow the journey of learning 317 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: about why this topic interested me. Susan or Leave New 318 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Yorker writer and the author of the library book about 319 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: l a Library Fire. If you're as fascinated as I 320 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: am by all things New Yorker, you should listen to 321 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: my interview with the intrepid Tina Brown coming from Vanity Fair. 322 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: She was greeted with skepticism when she took over The 323 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: New Yorker. It was much more open warfare against me 324 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: at the New Yorker at the beginning, you know, because 325 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: we had this huge kind of pushback from the old 326 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: guard expecting that this was going to be me putting 327 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: Demi Moore and in the magazine. I mean, first of 328 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: the cartoonist Bob Mankoff. He thought that I was going 329 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: to cancel all of cartoons and just put pictures in here. 330 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: The full interview with Tina Brown in our archive at 331 00:21:52,760 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec Baldwin, and 332 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing Now, more of my 333 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: conversation with New Yorker writer Susan or Lean. In February, 334 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: ten months after the worst library fire in American history, 335 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: the l a p D arrested a man named Harry Peak. 336 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: He confessed to starting the fire, and then he recanted. 337 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: He confessed multiple times, actually and recanted multiple times with 338 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: different alibis each time. It assumed that that was coached 339 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: by an attorney. Did a lawyer coach He didn't even 340 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: have a lawyer for the first several times that he 341 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: confessed and recanted. This was he confessed to friends, and 342 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: friends turned him in as one's friends do. There was 343 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: a reward. He had confessed multiple times two friends. He 344 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: confess to the police in a casual interview where they 345 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: were simply saying, what were you doing that day? Where 346 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: were you? What happens in days prior to no video 347 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: cameras that are getting people in and out. There were 348 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: simply security keeping people from coming into early There was 349 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: no there's no record. Take your feet off the table exactly, 350 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: and don't eat potato chips on the rarebus quiet and 351 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: even today libraries are open to anybody, anyone can come in. 352 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: That is both their greatest strength and sometimes their greatest challenge. 353 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: I did this movie with Emilio Estefays. He did this 354 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: movie The Public and it's about a guy who's on 355 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: the staff of the Cincinnati Public Library who joins a 356 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: protest by homeless people who are denizens of the library, 357 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: and a bane to the board of the library stage 358 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: a demonstration and they seal off a section of the library, 359 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: takeover and have a protest of a demonstration. And the 360 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: movie just screened at the Toronto Film Festival did quite 361 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: well with great We all went up there, Michael Michael, 362 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: Kay Williams and Taylor Shilling and all these wonderful actress 363 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: who working film and m and Amelia plays the lead role. 364 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: And the support he's gotten from the library community is really, 365 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: really wonderful. They are a warm, friendly, welcoming place, full 366 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: of interesting stuff costing nothing, and there aren't that many 367 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: places in our world that exists like that. So there 368 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: was no record of Harry Pea coming into the library, 369 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: as there was no record of anybody coming into the library. 370 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,479 Speaker 1: And in regards to him confessing and becanting, did he 371 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: indicate any motive? Why did he do it? Once he 372 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: confessed to the next question is why he never he 373 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: never said. The library opens for employees or elier than 374 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: it does to the public. So a door is open, 375 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: a security guard sits there to make sure you have 376 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: an employee badge to get in. On that morning, a 377 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: young man started walking in. The security guards stopped him 378 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: and said the library is not open, and the young 379 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: man apparently was annoyed by being stopped and left. The 380 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: city's final explanation for why they believed Harry Peake did 381 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: it on top of the fact that he had confessed, 382 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: was that he was angry that the guard had turned 383 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: him away. I want to get into the apple store 384 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: early too. But did anybody venture what was wrong with him? 385 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: Did they get into his mental health? And that's part 386 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: of what the mystery is because usually people who are 387 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: pyromaniacs generally display that behavior fairly early in life. It's 388 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: very rare for someone in their twenties who has no 389 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: history ever and has never been to torch the l 390 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: a central library. Did uh? Did experts determine how the 391 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: fire was set? It's a big question. Arson is the 392 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: one of the most difficult crimes to analyze and investigate 393 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: and In fact, it's the least successfully prosecuted felony for 394 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: that very reason. Usually the means of starting a fire 395 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: get destroyed in the fire. And believe it or not, 396 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: libraries until the late eighties did not have sprinkler systems. Librarians, yeah, 397 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: it's pretty shock library they didn't have sprinkler systems because 398 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: the worry was water is as damaging. Someone set them right, 399 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: someone lights a match to you know, and and sneaking 400 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: a cigarette back in the set and then boom, you've 401 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: got your sprinkler systems going off in your books are 402 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: going to be ruined. So the American Library Association until 403 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: the late eighties advised against sprinkler systems. And this was 404 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: before they had systems that use gas. And yeah, I 405 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: mean this was not basically fired prevention at that time 406 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: was a sprinkler that would get triggered and sent. In fact, 407 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: a great number of the books that were ruined in 408 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: the fire were ruined by water that firefighters were. Yeah. 409 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: Now you grew up in Cleveland, yes, and what did 410 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: your dad do. He was a real estate developer, mostly 411 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: a mom and part time worked in a bank. When 412 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: you were growing up in that household, what were books 413 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: and your childhood and what was yourn was a big reader. 414 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: My parents were great library goers, and they grew up 415 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: in the depression. I think they felt, as many people 416 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: who grew up in the depression felt, if you could 417 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: borrow something, why would you buy it. They were not 418 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: big on buying books. It was to them a luxury 419 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: that was didn't make sense you could borrow a book. 420 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: So we would go to the library all the time. 421 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: I grew up going at least once a week, if 422 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: not twice a week, taking books out. I didn't start 423 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: buying books till I was in college, and I think 424 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: I was buying textbooks and suddenly became obsessed with owning books. 425 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: My parents, to the day they died, they had the 426 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: money to buy books. They lived through the depression and 427 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: they had were very comfortable and could have afforded any 428 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: books they wanted. They it was something that was embedded 429 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: in them that you borrowed books from the library, you 430 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: didn't buy them. So we didn't have a lot of 431 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: books in my house. Even when I go to Barnes 432 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: and Noble, I love it, and I just said, I 433 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: get the same feeling. I mean, I'm in a room 434 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: full of books. It doesn't matter whose name is on 435 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: the door by Lincoln Center, the one by now and 436 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: when it closed, I was that was my Barnes and Noble. 437 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: I was devastated. Not even the big one on Broadway 438 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: in the old Shakespeare. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't 439 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: go to that one. I didn't like that as much 440 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: as that one by Lincoln Center. I loved that bookstore. 441 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna close. I was so sad. Oh it's it's 442 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: a heartbreak. Now. I want to ask you, because we 443 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: are going to run out of time, how does writing 444 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: congeal in your life? Like when do you decide that's 445 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: what you're going to do with your life? And it's 446 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: a big commitment. I started writing when I learned to read, 447 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: and I never thought I would be anything other than 448 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: a writer. I wrote little books for my family when 449 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: I was really young. I'm not trying to say it 450 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: was a prodigy. I just writing always seemed to me 451 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: to be the filter through which experience made sense to me. 452 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: Communicating telling stories seemed like a natural transaction between me 453 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: and the world. Just it was just what I wanted 454 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: to do. When I was probably in college, I realized 455 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: what I really wanted to do was tell true stories. 456 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: I didn't want to write fiction. I wanted to learn 457 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: about the world, and particularly learn about things that they 458 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: hadn't noticed or hadn't thought about before. And trying to 459 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: figure out how you do that for a living was 460 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 1: of course a bit of a challenge. But when I 461 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: discovered the New Yorker, I thought, ah, I get it now. 462 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: This is where you write those kinds of stories where 463 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: you examine life and tell their stories. So it was 464 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: my dream to work there. And I'm lucky enough too. 465 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: And I've never done any waitress but other than that, 466 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: I've never done any other jobs. Do you think that 467 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: Orchid Thief was your most cinematic book, Well, the funny 468 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: thing is I think none of them are. And yet 469 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: what surprised you but that when they mean they made 470 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: this into a very famous movie, we did that. Surprise 471 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: you when we want to make it real. Surprise me. 472 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: In fact, when it was optioned, and it was optioned 473 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: immediately before I had even finished the book, I thought, 474 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: I have no idea what these people think they're doing. 475 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: It's a very um, discursive, sort of reflective internal book. 476 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how you're going to make a movie 477 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: out of this. But that's not my problem, that's your problem. 478 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: And I remember saying to a friend, They're gonna have 479 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: to make the crime be a murder or something more 480 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: dramatic than just stealing orchids is just impossible, and there's 481 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: going to have to be some sex in it some how, 482 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: and lo and behold, there you go. I mean, when 483 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: I got the script for adaptation, I read it and thought, 484 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: you people are crazy. I don't know what you're doing, 485 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: but at least I'm right you did have to put 486 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: in a murderer and a car crash. I've had this 487 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: funny relationship with Hollywood that I write things that I 488 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: want to write, and I they are not conventional in 489 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: any way in terms of Hollywood sense of a story, 490 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: and yet they come knocking and I'm delighted. Well, I've 491 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: never particularly been interested in it, but we are adapting 492 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: this book for television, and I thought, you know what 493 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a shot. I think 494 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: it would be fun to try a different kind of writing. Um, 495 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: but there's so many things I want to write about 496 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: out in the world that um, I've never at. I 497 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: want to be the one to adapt my work. I've 498 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: always found it mostly people option my work, and I 499 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: think I have no idea what you are going to 500 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: do with this. So just call me when it's done 501 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: and I'll come to the premiere. I'm very happy. Give 502 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: me a few days notice so I can get my 503 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: dress to the drive. I feel about movies i'm in. 504 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to see the movie. They'll say, you 505 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: want to see a kind of the movie. I'm like, no, 506 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: welcome to the premiere. I suppose now that I live 507 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: in l A, my interest in working on the adaptation 508 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: of this book is more than it was when I 509 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: lived in New York because I'm going to work on 510 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: it with a friend who's a wonderful writer. Yeah. What 511 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: do you think living in LA is going to do 512 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: to your writing? Boy? I wonder about it, except, um, 513 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, there are the stories that I'm interested in writing. 514 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: I think are the same that they've always been, and 515 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: I don't see a big change in that. I've lived 516 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: in a lot of different places since I began writing. 517 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: I lived in Boston and New York, in Upstate New York, 518 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: um in Boston again, now in l A. And I 519 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: my writing has remained really consistent. I think there are 520 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: stories that I'll find out about because I live here 521 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: that I might not have seen otherwise. But in the 522 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: heart of the writing, I feel that that's such an 523 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: internal thing that where you're living doesn't affect it as much. 524 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: You're married to John Gillespie. Last time I checked worked 525 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: at the Lampoon. He did, and it is a very 526 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: He's very funny. He's very funny. But he also says 527 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 1: to me that the classic lampoon response to someone else 528 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: making a joke is to simply, with a very straight face, 529 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 1: say uh huh, yeah, that's that's funny. I co wrote 530 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: a book with Kurt Anderson, the Writing and Hurt and 531 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: I did the Trump Parody book. Wrote a book called 532 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: you Can't Spell America Without Me. It's a parody. And 533 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: what was so riveting it was truly just overwhelming to 534 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: me and just mesmerizing was how fast the book came 535 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: out of it. He wrote it just like like weeks 536 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: just came. He'd sent me, you know, chapters, and I 537 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: was overwhelmed by how I give him notes. He's so 538 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: productive yet and he's so funny. So he and my 539 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: husband were together and there were a lot of people 540 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: who emerged from that couple of years. Um, well, the 541 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: lampoon has always turned out amazingly clever, smart people, but 542 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: that particular year there were a lot of people who 543 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: have gone on to have quite illustrious careers. Is he 544 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: still writing now? My husband, he wrote a book about 545 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: corporate boards and how bad they are. Um, but mostly 546 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: he's been in the financial world, which is funny. He 547 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 1: finds the funny. He exactly. Well, I want to say, 548 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: because we're pretty much at a time, and I just 549 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: want to say, in my town, Massapequa, Long Island, the 550 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: Massapequa Public Library and very nice library, and it was 551 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: centrally located. It wasn't like on some outpost where they 552 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: could have got cheap land, you know what I mean. 553 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: They just was right in the heart of town. You 554 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: just got that special feeling of going to the library. 555 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: You went to the library and you were groomed almost 556 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: Because my father was a teacher, I guess this is 557 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: a part of it. Oh, there's an opportunity for me here. 558 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: Something's gonna happen here. This is a sacred a place 559 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: of real deliberation. We're gonna sit and we're gonna learn 560 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: about the research for school, obviously, and looking up, you 561 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: know about our var new Neez Kabata Devaka and the Explorers. 562 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: We would study when we were in the sixth grade, 563 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: and they had two of the old style bookmobiles. They 564 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: would be taken on the trailer hitch and it was 565 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: it was parked in the parking lot the nine whole 566 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: public golf course that existed in my neighborhood, and the 567 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 1: and the parking lot of the golf course was across 568 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: the street from my house, and we would walk across 569 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: the street and go into this funky, weird bubble. It 570 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: was like a little trailer and the woman was sitting 571 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: at the desk. It was almost like it was like 572 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: doll furniture was like a little little desk she was at. 573 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: And the books had all the little wooden slats to 574 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: keep them from flying off the shelf. Uh. They had 575 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: like these little guard rails they snapped on them when 576 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: they traveled so they wouldn't come flying when the thing 577 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: was driving. And I get a phone call from the 578 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: Massive People Public Library and they say, you know this 579 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: is over. You know we're gonna take these things. We're 580 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: gonna junk them. Would you like to buy one. I 581 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: bought it kid, and I stuck it, and I stuck 582 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: it in a little corner of my property on Long Island, 583 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: and I put trees around it because my neighbors complained. 584 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: My neighbors said to me, why do you have these 585 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,879 Speaker 1: decrepit structures? They said, what is this? These are real 586 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: hamp the knights? Shall we say? One woman said to me, 587 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: she was I didn't realize we were living in Appalachia. God, 588 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: she said, but I remember that feeling, you know, of 589 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: going to that and getting those books, and you knew 590 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: the value the plastic coating on them to protect the 591 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: coverers and everything. And I remember the sacred experience and 592 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: handling that material, And I think that you know, I 593 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: love bookstores too, and I love owning books. Like libraries, 594 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: there is something special and sacred about the idea of 595 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: it being a shared space with shared things, that we 596 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: as a society have created this entity and we all 597 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,240 Speaker 1: sharing it together, and it works almost all the time. 598 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: You take a book home, you read it, you bring 599 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: it back, someone else takes it. It is democratic, small 600 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: d experience in the most really beautiful way. And going 601 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: into a library and seeing a scholar and a teenager 602 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: and a homeless person and a wealth person, and everyone 603 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: has the same right to take the books. It feels great. 604 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: It's like how I assume some people feel when they 605 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: go to church. It feels right, it feels good. It 606 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: makes me feel I get very emotional about it. I mean, 607 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: and I'm going into a bookstore I love and it 608 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: feels amazing and I want everything, and I love walking around. 609 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: That element of thinking, wow, we can really do things 610 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: together as a society and have it work is particular 611 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: to a library, and it feels so gratifying. I'm really 612 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing a movie of this because that 613 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: something tells me, like Orchid Thief, it's an unlikely subject 614 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: into something that could become a very very engaging film. 615 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, I hope, but I hope. I hope it 616 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 1: makes it to the screen in some fashion. Yeah, thank 617 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: you so much. I'm I'm excited about it, and I think, um, 618 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: it will be a pleasure to highlight this world of 619 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: libraries in some way. UM, because they really, especially at 620 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: this moment in time when so much else feels so 621 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: dark and trouble risk, they are real beacons in the 622 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: world at the moment, and there's something about being in 623 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: a room full of books. There's nothing else like it. 624 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: You I do that now. I know it's completely acceptable 625 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 1: in l A. To snorted book. I'm gonna Susan Orleans latest, 626 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: The Library, book about the devastation of the l A 627 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: Central Library, is in stores now from Simon and Schuster. 628 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.