WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Ivar The Boneless 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.600 Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.880 there's Chuck and this is short stuff, just the two 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.760 of us, um with the Viking hordes. We've taken a 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.919 bunch of mushrooms and we're entering berserker mode. Now. Yeah, man, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.800 this I remember. That was one of the early, early, 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.640 early stuff you should know episodes, was our episode on Vikings. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.000 That was one of the great facts of the podcast 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.400 in the early days. Berserker in the mushrooms. Yeah yeah. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.360 Can you imagine seeing a Viking with the battle axe 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.199 on mushrooms coming at you going crazy? Yeah? And I 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.040 know I think I mentioned it recently, but the guy 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.559 who did The Lighthouse, his his next movie is a 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.000 Viking movie. I just that's a good reason to build 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:48.640 a time machine so we don't have to wait around 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.120 for that. Yeah, Robert Egger's boy, that's gonna be good. 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.600 And I bet it's gonna be crazy. Yeah, I can't 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.480 wait because the Vikings were crazy. And if you watch 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.520 the History Channel show Vikings have not I haven't either, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.120 but it was pretty popular. It ran for about six seasons. 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.400 But there was a character in their name I have 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.200 are the Boneless uh And on the show, he was 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.920 a ruthless guy. He was sort of the leader on 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.360 the battlefield, and he had a medical condition on the 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:23.440 show that made his legs useless basically, so he would 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.880 crawl around and he would ride on chariots and stuff, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.760 and he had crutches. Um. But he led what was 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.000 known as the Great Heathen Army on that show, and 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.959 he was actually a real person. But there's a lot 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.200 more mystery about who he was and whether or not 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.000 he even had this condition in real life. Yeah, so 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.800 I've are the boneless one of the great all time 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:48.120 nicknames ever. Um. But he he does pop up here 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:53.200 there in historic documents that chronicle the Vikings. Um. And 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.280 we're working from a house Stuff Works article that I 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:57.920 think makes a great point or one of the historians 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:03.720 that they interviewed very cast historians in this article, which great, Um. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.960 But this this historian makes a really great point that 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.720 first off, let's let's kind of get across that the 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.640 Vikings and everything we understand about the Vikings were written 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:19.200 by our historic or cultural ancestors here in the States 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.480 and in the US or the UK and Australia and Canada, um, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.600 who were the enemy and the sufferers at the hands 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.480 of the Vikings, so they didn't paint the most flattering 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.160 portrait of the Vikings around. And um, you know, you 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:34.960 can make a really good case that the Vikings were 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.600 no more violent or terrifying than anybody else. Um, during 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.440 the Medieval Age, it was a violent time. Like we're 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.920 not saying they were, you know, just super chill dudes 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.240 who had just hang around and and drink beer. But 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:56.040 it was just a violent time, like everybody was killing everybody. Charlemagne, 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.440 they you know, they point out this article ordered the 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.000 beheading of Sacks since and he was in one day. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.760 He was the Holy Roman Emperor at the time too, 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.440 not a Viking. Yeah, so there were plenty of violent 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.520 cultures at the time, and this whole image of these 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.160 barbarians that we get. You're right, it's because it was 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.280 written by people who were their victims. And I'm sure 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:26.640 they were pretty scared, right exactly, Um and again rightfully, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.040 So it's not that the Vikings weren't violent, it's just 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.760 that everybody was violent. And I feel like that was 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:37.360 such a mind blowing, paradigm altering part, Chuck, that we 0:03:37.360 --> 0:04:05.200 should take a break real quick. Let's do it all right, 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:11.400 late ninth century. Ninth I said that weirdly, uh, something 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.119 came out called the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, which was this, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:17.920 uh sort of a history book. It was a collection 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.120 of records about English history and it was you know, 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.359 update over over the next couple of hundred years. And 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.080 in that book we do find a notation for the 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.480 Great Heathen Army or the Great Army, which were the 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.800 Scandinavian invaders in this big Viking army basically that hit 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:40.919 the British Isles and eight right, So, um, this is 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.840 like the Viking Horde that you think of. Apparently, this 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.000 Great Heathen Army, which again they called it the Great 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:48.840 Army too, but I'm not going to call it anything 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.800 but the Great Heathen Army because it's just so much cooler. Um. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.920 This was a number of different armies from different Scandinavian 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.240 lands that kind of um all work together. But over 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.280 the course of more than a decade of invasions and 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.440 conquerings and all that, they were just this kind of 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.520 fluid group um that collectively were called the Great Huthan 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.480 arm And it wasn't just one single solitary mass of 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:19.320 the same people over thirteen years who invaded England. So 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.679 they are mentioned in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, and Ivar 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.480 himself has mentioned I believe in the Anglo Anglo Saxon 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:32.800 Chronicle as well, right, yeah, I think so it was Um, Well, 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.600 at least the brother of Ivar was mentioned with two rs, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.640 which was would have been the North spelling of it. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.080 So it's the brother of Ivar has mentioned. Therefore Ivar 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.160 has mentioned, right, and it actually makes Ivar seemed that 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.640 much more important if you're you're saying that somebody is 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.680 a brother of somebody else, you know what I'm saying. Otherwise, 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.680 who cares? So I guess that's the only time that 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.560 he pops up in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle. It's more 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:05.760 that he's associated as a leader um of the Great 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.760 Heathen Army in the Anglo sex and Chronicles. So we 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:15.000 have a contemporary piece of writing that basically chronicles, at 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.000 least in part, the Great Heathen Army coming from the 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:23.799 North and messing stuff up pretty bad. Um. And Ivar 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.200 is in there, okay, right, And he's also mentioned in 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:33.599 some Irish records. The Annals of Ulster really cool, great read, 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.920 and they reveal a Viking by the name of Ivar 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.440 or Emar, who was the king of the Northman and 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.400 all Britain and Ireland when he died in eighty three. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.520 And the thing here is, we just don't know if 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.680 that is the same person, but chances are it probably was. Yeah, 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.040 I think most historians of that period in that region 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.279 tend to think that this is the same Ivar. Think 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:05.040 the timing potentially works out. Um, And yeah, it's possible 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.200 there's more than one Ivar. But if he was a 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.640 leader of the Heathen Army in the Anglo Saxon Chronicles 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.160 and the leader of all the Great Army um in 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.800 the Ulster Annals or the Annals of Ulster, why not 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.960 it could be the same guy. Doesn't really matter if 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:26.640 it's not at this point really so, uh yeah, they 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.240 think that the same You know, it's England and Ireland. 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.520 They're close enough to where he was probably just conquering 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.560 everywhere he went. But none of this has anything to 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.520 do with his boneless nickname um that he that you 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.360 know that we hear on the TV show. Uh So, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.520 now we need to talk about the Icelandic sagas which 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:51.680 were transcribed in the thirteenth and centuries. These are pros narratives. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.560 These aren't history books. These are novels basically. Yeah, and 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.680 they were written um by the descendants of these same 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.320 vice king conquerors, who would have revered and looked up 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.840 to and probably exaggerated the legends of these guys. But 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.080 it's apparently in the Icelandic saga's and they've been compared 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.520 to like historic novels, like definitely based on real things, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.400 but just maybe a little more overblown. So you got 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.160 to take him a bit with a grain of salt. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.200 But apparently it was in the Icelandic saga's that um 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:27.200 Ivar gets his boneless nickname. I guess that's boneless is 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.440 just because all I can think of his chicken. Sure, 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:34.640 you know, yeah, boneless wing is awesome. Uh So this 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.520 is where you know, it could have been some transcription problem, 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.600 like boneless could have met legless maybe, which you know 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.280 that would make sense of if you've watched the TV show. 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.000 He wasn't legless, but he at least didn't have the 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.120 use of his legs, so they may have called someone 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.720 with that disability legless at the time. But Chuck, there's 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.439 another potential transcription error that makes the History Channel interpretation 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:05.640 UM really unique or singular. I guess you could say, okay, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.600 let's hear it. So there's um two Latin words that 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:15.000 medieval transcriptionists may have UM mistaken. One is exos, which 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:21.760 means boneless. One is xo suss, which means detestable. So 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.440 it's possible that Ivar's nickname really was i've are the 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.800 detestable or i've are the hated, and that some medieval 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.000 monk got it wrong and he became i've are the boneless, 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:38.040 and then centuries after that some executive producers for History 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.640 Channel decided to actually take that literally and create this 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.960 character i've are the boneless, who did not have the 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:50.960 use of his legs. Even probably the likely story is 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:56.240 this great conqueror probably did not have no use of 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.040 his legs, would be my guess, which makes it UM 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.880 kind of funny and TV way right. But from what 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.600 the historians are saying, it just it just doesn't jibe 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.600 with the Viking culture. That's just probably not the case. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.079 Although they do say it's possible the History Channel's interpretation 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.319 is correct, it's also it seems to be doubtful. You 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.599 never know, you never know. Uh, that's what this is 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.320 when we need the way Back machine, but it's in 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.640 the shop right now. Unfortunately. Yeah, we uh, we should 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.920 do a go fund me to pay that bill. We should, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.400 although I think we might be convicted of fraud if 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.760 we actually collect any of those funny I think, So 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.400 you got anything else? I got nothing else? Short stuff 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:41.600 everybody is out. Stuff you Should Know is a production 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.520 of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.760 visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:49.200 you listen to your favorite shows.