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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Charlie Pellett.

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Speaker 2: We're tracking two major stories for you this morning. Treasury

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Speaker 2: Secretary Scott Bessant and US Trade Representative Jamison Greer will

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Speaker 2: travel to Switzerland later this week for trade talks with China.

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Speaker 2: More on the talks coming up, but we begin with this.

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Speaker 2: India has conducted targeted military strikes against Pakistan. The move

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Speaker 2: was widely expected after India pledged retaliation for a militant

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Speaker 2: attack last month in Kashmir that killed twenty six people.

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Speaker 2: In response, Pakistan said it shot down five Indian warplanes.

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Speaker 2: And for more, we heard from Pakistan's Defense Minister Kwaja Asif,

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Speaker 2: who spoke with Bloomberg's Sharryon and Paul Allen.

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Speaker 1: Minister, great have you with us, and thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for taking the time. We have heard about what

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Speaker 1: Pakistan has done. We are of course talking about an

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Speaker 1: escalation here when it comes to the conflict with India.

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Speaker 1: How far could this conflict go?

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Speaker 3: Well, let me give you the latest count. We have

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Speaker 3: down five Indian plane parks and air Force has shut

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Speaker 3: down five Indian planes and multiple ua vs and their

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Speaker 3: checkposts on the on the control line, a couple of

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Speaker 3: checkposts have been destroyed. So this is this is the

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Speaker 3: datast as for what is happening on the control line

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Speaker 3: or international border between India and Pakistan. As for the

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Speaker 3: attacks of Indian Air Force are concerned on seven different locations,

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Speaker 3: two in Indian in and my independent Krishmir, one ins

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Speaker 3: uh in number of Rabba, other courtly and five other

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Speaker 3: locations in Pakistan. Given this impression that uh these places

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Speaker 3: had terrast camps, well, I have uh you know, invited

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Speaker 3: the international media and our local media to visit all

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Speaker 3: these places and see for themselves if there are any

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Speaker 3: terrorist camps or terrorist outfits on these locations. The civilian

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Speaker 3: population has suffered, a lady has been martyred, a childless

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Speaker 3: and martyred, and few other you know, uh you know,

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Speaker 3: counties have been suffered by Pakistan. Civilian city and two

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Speaker 3: molis have destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Good question right, all hanging here is how far is

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Speaker 1: Pakistan willing to go here?

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Speaker 3: It all depends upon that this has been initiated by India.

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Speaker 3: If India is ready to back down, they have taken

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Speaker 3: the initiative. We have just responded We have been saying

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Speaker 3: all along in last fortnight that we will never initiate

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Speaker 3: any initiate anything hostile towards India, but if we are attacked,

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Speaker 3: we will respond. If India backs down, we will definitely

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Speaker 3: wrap up these things, you know. But as long we

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Speaker 3: are under attack, under fire, we have to respond. We

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Speaker 3: have to defend ourselves.

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Speaker 4: Minister, is there any contacts between yourself and the Indian

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Speaker 4: side at the moment.

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Speaker 3: I'm not aware of it, you know, I'm not aware

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Speaker 3: of it. If there is contact normally during these hostile

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Speaker 3: you know, activities and tensions that are backdoor context available

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Speaker 3: anywhere in the world, you know there is, But I'm

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Speaker 3: not aware of any contact between India and Parkson at

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Speaker 3: the moment.

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Speaker 4: I also conser that India's suspended the Indus River Treaty.

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Speaker 4: Flows from the Chenab River into Pakistan have been restricted.

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Speaker 4: Do you anticipate that continuing or is there some talk

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Speaker 4: to at least restore river flows to Pakistan.

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Speaker 3: I think World Bank brokeered this treaty way back in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty, which is now what sixty five years old

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Speaker 3: treaty and it has worked reasonably well, not excellent, but

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Speaker 3: reasonably well. Over the years we have face problems but

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Speaker 3: that still works here. But India now has is seriously

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Speaker 3: violating this treaty any outflow or any downstream towards Pakistan

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Speaker 3: because we are low Riparian country. It has to be

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Speaker 3: under the treaty we have to be notified that this

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Speaker 3: much water has been released from such and such location

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Speaker 3: and we should take care of that here. In last

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Speaker 3: for five days or a week, there were there were

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Speaker 3: releases of water, uh you know, without any warning and

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Speaker 3: then there was stoppage of water all so without any

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Speaker 3: more warning. So this flip flop situation is going on

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Speaker 3: for last about eight nine days and the treaty is

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Speaker 3: being violated by India almost on a daily basis. World

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Speaker 3: Bank can can can intervene not they they broke this

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Speaker 3: treaty and we can talk to them. With the Indians

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Speaker 3: as for my w TES is concerned. But under the circumstances, yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, Please ask no.

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Speaker 1: Please finish your thought under these circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Under Under under these circumstances, when we are eyeball to

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Speaker 3: our eyeball to our forces, both countries are facing each

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Speaker 3: other on the on the line of control on international

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Speaker 3: boundary on working boundary. Under these circumstances, I think once

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Speaker 3: the peace returns, this treaty can can be enforced again.

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Speaker 3: And if there are a need of any negotiations between

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Speaker 3: between India and Bankstan, our World Bank can play very

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Speaker 3: significant role in that. You know that that can be done.

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Speaker 3: But under the pleasant circumstances, yes, yes, please go ahead.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds to us that you're willing to have

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Speaker 1: contact with India, that you want to talk. Does that

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Speaker 1: mean that you will carry out negotiations before or there's

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Speaker 1: another escalation on your side when you say you already

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Speaker 1: shut down jets, when you already took soldiers, is that

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Speaker 1: the extent of what Pakistan is willing to do before

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Speaker 1: there is a conversation with India.

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Speaker 3: You must understand that these are not hostile X. We

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Speaker 3: are just defending our territory, you know, because India's incursions

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Speaker 3: over last let's say five hours or six six hours,

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Speaker 3: I think around eleven thirty or twelve o'clock or maybe

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Speaker 3: after midnight it all started. So we are just responding.

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Speaker 3: If these hostile X are stopped or they cease to

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Speaker 3: you know, continue these X against Pakistan, we will definitely

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Speaker 3: talk to India and we do not want this situation

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Speaker 3: to escalate, but if it we are forced to respond,

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Speaker 3: if there are hostile acts initiated from Indian side, then

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Speaker 3: we have to respond. You know, we cannot just sit

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Speaker 3: back and take whatever is coming to us.

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Speaker 1: You know, So you've also been speaking to the US.

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Speaker 1: What we understand that you've been speaking to Secretary of Rubio.

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Speaker 1: Have you talked to Washington after uh, these attacks from

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Speaker 1: India and what about Beijing? How does China play into

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Speaker 1: this conflict?

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Speaker 3: Well, my you know, China is definitely you know, they

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Speaker 3: are the third party to Krishmir. A part of Kashmir

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Speaker 3: is with China also, So this is this is something

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Speaker 3: I think China is a very very relevant player in

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Speaker 3: the region, very very relevant player. They can they can

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Speaker 3: you know, use their influence. I don't know whether it

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Speaker 3: will work with India or not, but beyond China, if

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Speaker 3: you know, other countries in the region, like in the

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Speaker 3: Arabian Gulf or Russian Federation or President Trump has spoken

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Speaker 3: just a couple of hours back and he called this

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Speaker 3: act of Indian aggression shame. So uh, President Trump, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, has been been last since he has taken

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Speaker 3: over a presidential office in the United States. He has

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Speaker 3: been talking of conciliations and reconciliations and you know, my

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Speaker 3: peaceful world he is uh uh you know I'm talking

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Speaker 3: about He can also play very significant role in none

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Speaker 3: bringing the two countries to to halt the hostilities.

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Speaker 4: Minister, part of the reason the world is so concerned

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Speaker 4: with this conflict is the because your nation and India

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Speaker 4: both nuclear armed. How do you prevent this conflict from

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Speaker 4: escalating before either country starts talking about nuclear de terrence.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is this is a huge risk, you know,

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Speaker 3: when two nuclear powers are, you know, confronting each other

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Speaker 3: and we do not have any intention of using a

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Speaker 3: nuclear option. That that is just something which guarantees are

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Speaker 3: as sovereignty, especially when we have next door a neighbor

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Speaker 3: who is extremely hostile towards us. Seventy seven years of

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Speaker 3: our neighbor relationship. Neighborhood, you know, is a witness or

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Speaker 3: evidence to the fact that Anya has been hostiled and

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Speaker 3: not only on the on on the on the western

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Speaker 3: eastern border, the border between India and Pakistan. They have

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Speaker 3: the proxies working against us from Afalistan, both in our

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Speaker 3: province of Pakin Kai and Blukhstan also, so they have

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Speaker 3: their proxies trained and financed by India. So we are

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Speaker 3: victims of aggression from both sides by the Indians, you know,

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Speaker 3: one directly they engage in hostility with US and there

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Speaker 3: is through through their terrorist proxies.

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Speaker 4: All right, Pakistan's Defense Minister Kauwajia Mohammad Asif, thank you

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Speaker 4: so much for joining us today. Bloomberg News is also

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Speaker 4: reaching out to Indian officials for comment as well.

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Speaker 2: Again, Pakistani Defense Minister Kauwaja Sief and conversation with Bloomberg's

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Speaker 2: Sharry On and Paul Allen, coming up the latest on

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Speaker 2: US China trade negotiations. I'm Charlie Pellatin. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Charlie Pelatin

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Speaker 2: for Doug Prisner. This week, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessington, US

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Speaker 2: Trade Representative Jamison Greer will be traveling to Switzerland later

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Speaker 2: this week for trade talks with China. The travel was

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Speaker 2: announced in statements from the Chinese and US governments. It'll

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Speaker 2: be the first confirmed trade talks between the countries since

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Speaker 2: President Donald Trump announced sweeping tariffs led by punishing levies

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Speaker 2: on China. And for the latest, we heard from Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Politics out at a romy Varghees alongside Bloomberg's China correspondent,

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Speaker 2: men In Low. They spoke with Bloomberg, Scherryon and Paul

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Speaker 2: Allen Remy.

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Speaker 4: I want to stop with you. What are the expectations

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Speaker 4: for these talks? Where do we set the bar?

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Speaker 5: I think the fact that these talks are happening is

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Speaker 5: a huge development. This is I must remind everyone. This

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Speaker 5: is the first confirmed trade talks between the two countries.

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Speaker 5: And obviously what is happening between China and the United

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Speaker 5: States has been concerning investors. I mean earlier today, stocks

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Speaker 5: in the United States fell based on Trump's comments earlier

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Speaker 5: saying that the US is losing nothing by not trading

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Speaker 5: with China. So the fact that these talks are happening

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Speaker 5: is a significant development. And indeed you see stock features

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Speaker 5: in the United States moving higher on this and.

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Speaker 1: Maybe in a significant development that the Chinese side is

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Speaker 1: willing to acknowledge the conversations are happening. So what can

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Speaker 1: we expect to be the bar for China when it

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Speaker 1: comes to these negotiations.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's really significant. Two things. One, I

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Speaker 6: think this is one of the few times we have

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Speaker 6: coordinated messaging from US and China, both sides releasing their

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Speaker 6: statement around six am local paging time, acknowledging that these

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Speaker 6: trade talks are happening. And secondly, you have officials at

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Speaker 6: the very top level, because China is fielding early fund,

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Speaker 6: which is the Vice Premier. If you remember, the first

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Speaker 6: trade deal was negotiated by the Vice Premier at that time, Leoha,

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Speaker 6: who signed the Phase one trade deal with President Trump.

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Speaker 6: So this is a very high level official that is

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Speaker 6: going to be overseeing these talks with Scott Bessant and

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Speaker 6: Jamison Grier, and the Chinese Commerce Ministry will lease a statement,

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Speaker 6: a pretty long one, reiterating that china stunts hasn't changed

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Speaker 6: at all. It's open to dialogue, yes, but if the

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Speaker 6: US wants to fight, it is still going to fight

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Speaker 6: till the end, and China is not going to compromise

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Speaker 6: on its principles. It will be defending its legitimate rights

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Speaker 6: and interests. And that statement also came with a warning

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Speaker 6: for other countries looking to negotiate with the US, saying

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Speaker 6: that quote appeacement cannot be exchanged for compromise is not respected.

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Speaker 6: Adhering to principal positions and fairness and justice is the

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Speaker 6: right way to safeguard one's own interests, and the statement

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Speaker 6: also saying that China will continue to open up to

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Speaker 6: share its development opportunities with the rest of the world,

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Speaker 6: is willing to work with other countries to jointly oppose gemony, protectionism,

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Speaker 6: and bullying.

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Speaker 1: Robbie when he comes to these trade negotiations we have

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Speaker 1: for a president Trump talk about not wanting that back

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Speaker 1: and forth approach, that he'll be prescribing tariffs to other

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Speaker 1: countries and that they should either accept or not. Do

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Speaker 1: you expect that approach to actually work on Beijing or

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Speaker 1: will he take a two way approach given that really

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Speaker 1: China has remained defiant so far.

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Speaker 5: I think this is going to be a tricky situation,

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Speaker 5: and that's why you see Scott Besson and Jamison Greer

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Speaker 5: starting these talks. During his comments today with the new

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Speaker 5: Canadian Prime minister, Trump made it clear that he is

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Speaker 5: the final arbiter of all trade deils, and indeed he

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Speaker 5: said you did not want this back and forth negotiation.

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Speaker 5: But I would also note that Scott Beston earlier today

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Speaker 5: when he spoke to lawmakers on Capitol Hill. You know,

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Speaker 5: he talked about how things were progressing. He talked about

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Speaker 5: how talks were progressing with other nations. So Trump is

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Speaker 5: aware that that markets are watching, but he also wants

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Speaker 5: to stick to his tenant that he is the one

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Speaker 5: who makes the deal and he needs to see something

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Speaker 5: significant happen with China because he feels that China has

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Speaker 5: treated the United States very unfairly.

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Speaker 4: Men, men, China is not just going to be talking

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Speaker 4: to the US. We've also got used to President Xijian

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Speaker 4: thing's going to be heading to Moscow for talks with

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Speaker 4: Russia as well. What's on the table here and so

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Speaker 4: what degree does this offer China some extra leverage when

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Speaker 4: it comes to speaking with the US.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So Presidency going to Russia at this time when

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Speaker 6: we have seen this backdrop of international alliance sort of

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Speaker 6: shifting with President Trump also called put In to push

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Speaker 6: for that sees fire in Ukraine. This is a trip

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Speaker 6: for China to establish that US China ties remains iron

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Speaker 6: clad despite that sort of courting from President Trump so far.

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Speaker 6: And Presidency is there to support Russia to attend the

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Speaker 6: parade marketing Soviet Union's win over Nazi Germany. During World

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Speaker 6: War Two. And this is a mutual sign of support

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Speaker 6: because the Kremlin also said that Putin has agreed to

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Speaker 6: visit Beijing in September to mark China's win over Japan

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Speaker 6: during World War two. As well, both sides about to

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Speaker 6: sign by electoral documents as well as release a joint

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Speaker 6: statement that according to the Kremlin, they will be discussing

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Speaker 6: US Russia ties as well as the Ukraine War, as

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Speaker 6: well as economic and energy issues given the threat that

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Speaker 6: Russia is facing from Europe now, the prospect of Europe

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Speaker 6: cutting off their energy ties with Russia. And we know

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Speaker 6: Russia has been diverting a lot of its energy supplied

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Speaker 6: to China while China handed that economic lifeline to Russia.

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Speaker 6: So both sides also, according to the Ministry of Foreign

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Speaker 6: Fans from China, both sides jointly opposing hegemony and bullying

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Speaker 6: again coming together to oppose or to create that multipolar

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Speaker 6: world order that they want to see.

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Speaker 1: And ROMI, before we let you go, what's the state

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Speaker 1: of the trade negotiations between President Trump and other countries.

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Speaker 1: We just heard that that negotiation with McCartney with Canada

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Speaker 1: went very well according to the President.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I would I would refer to my early statement

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Speaker 5: about Scott Beston actually predicting that a trade deal could

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Speaker 5: happen as early as this week with other with nations

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Speaker 5: other than China, and he even said that eighty to

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Speaker 5: ninety percent of trade deals could happen this year. So

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Speaker 5: Scott Beston is putting an optimistic tone on negotiations, while

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump is insisting that he's not going to do

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Speaker 5: a back and forth the negotiations.

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Speaker 1: Tomi Virgis and I were trying to correspond to me

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Speaker 1: mean though, there with the latest.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Bloomberg Daybreak

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Speaker 2: Asia Edition podcast. Each weekday, we look at the story

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Speaker 2: shaping markets, finance, and geopolitics in the Asia Pacific. You

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Speaker 2: can find us on Apple, Spotify, the Bloomberg Podcast YouTube channel,

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Speaker 2: or anywhere else you listen. Join us again tomorrow for

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Speaker 2: insight on the market moves from Hong Kong to Singapore

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Speaker 2: and Australia. I'm Doug Chrisner, and this is Bloomberg