Speaker 1: You've gotta be a lot smarter than that if you're
Speaker 1: gonna Rick roll, Joe Surmelli, I was like, not today,
Speaker 1: Rick Astley, not today. I don't need big screen TVs
Speaker 1: and and sports when I can watch people making asses
Speaker 1: of themselves trying to dock in front of a rowdy crowd.
Speaker 1: And we'll be back next week to give us a
Speaker 1: hack on how to properly put those on and remove
Speaker 1: them with Google from all the ship that leads. Day later,
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about Australian Santa. Feel good
Speaker 1: about that? Great wow, Good morning, degenerate anglers. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Ben the fishing podcast that struggles to get your ride
Speaker 1: at home from its favorite bar because it only has
Speaker 1: a three star rating on Uber. I'm Joe Surmelli, I'm
Speaker 1: Miles Nulty, and and I'm I'm a little confused by
Speaker 1: that set up. Are you an Uber driver? Now? Are
Speaker 1: you like noon lighting as an Uber driver? No? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no no no. Drivers can rate passengers too, that yeah,
Speaker 1: like if I get yes, right, Like if I get
Speaker 1: in Homeboys car And for the record, this is this
Speaker 1: is totally hypothetical, But if I get in dude's car,
Speaker 1: wearing like soaking wet waiters and leave behind a trail
Speaker 1: of mud and like sand or bunk or slime or something,
Speaker 1: and then tip him in in ski ball tickets, which
Speaker 1: I've been known to do because I always have a
Speaker 1: lot of very good skiball player um that he can
Speaker 1: give me a bad rating so that future drivers don't
Speaker 1: make the mistake of picking me up. Real real thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: so I can get black balled as a Uber passenger,
Speaker 1: like I can. I can get like cut out, like
Speaker 1: don't pick this dude up totally. And you can also
Speaker 1: get blackballed as an Airbnb guest. That what I know
Speaker 1: about that. I was Yeah, okay, see I I was recently.
Speaker 1: I was recently. I'm proud I was just rated as
Speaker 1: a five star gas, which means I didn't have a
Speaker 1: foam party or steal the linens or anything. Yeah, but real,
Speaker 1: grown up, it pays to be nice to Uber drivers, um,
Speaker 1: and if you if you must leave a mess in
Speaker 1: the car, like at least compensate with a hefty tip,
Speaker 1: right like real American money, because that's the beauty of capitalism.
Speaker 1: You can buy your way out of the consequences of
Speaker 1: almost any any bad behavior. Any mistake a lesson I
Speaker 1: hope you're teaching to your children. But you know, setting
Speaker 1: aside ugly cultural side effects of Western industrialization, we do
Speaker 1: live in a society, as you're pointing out, where crowdsourced
Speaker 1: ratings are growing increasingly important. Right. For example, the fact
Speaker 1: that we are the lowest rated of all the Mediator
Speaker 1: brand podcasts on Apple, a lowly four and a half
Speaker 1: stars out of five, likely means that we're missing out
Speaker 1: on perspective listeners simply because a few people out there
Speaker 1: either don't understand or can't appreciate the value of satire.
Speaker 1: I'm proud of that. Like, sometimes you have to, like
Speaker 1: if you don't have a perfect rate, and that means
Speaker 1: you've you've you've ruffled some feathers. And I'm about that.
Speaker 1: But all those people who I do have a modest
Speaker 1: proposal for all of them. Um But but group think
Speaker 1: ranking of goods and services has become a huge part
Speaker 1: of how we choose what to consume, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like, we now have so many choices about
Speaker 1: what we eat, watch, listen to and buy that we're
Speaker 1: just desperately searching for help to figure out what we
Speaker 1: should consume and I mean, we're all guilty of it.
Speaker 1: I do it not, especially like if I'm traveling hotel
Speaker 1: and motel reviews that's everything to me. The doctored photos
Speaker 1: of the room won't tell you about the blood on
Speaker 1: the carpet, and like the half eaten egg salad left
Speaker 1: in the mini fridge um and see, it depends on
Speaker 1: how you look at it, and that's that's the point.
Speaker 1: It's like that one guy's bad review. You might be like,
Speaker 1: I'd be happy if there was this is the right exactly.
Speaker 1: And I can also spend our wars literally hours reading
Speaker 1: reviews on Amazon, and I'll go into a tailspin of
Speaker 1: indecision because even though like that one toaster of and
Speaker 1: I've been eyeing it has four thousand good reviews. You know,
Speaker 1: Alan and Iowa wrote a really compelling, angry missive about
Speaker 1: how his his kitchen counter was set on fire, and
Speaker 1: it's the one like all of them can be good,
Speaker 1: but you can read that one you're like, oh no, yes,
Speaker 1: what if it sets my counter on fire too? I
Speaker 1: don't want to be like Alan. Yeah, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be I know, I know, And and the fact
Speaker 1: is you really shouldn't care what Alan in Iowa says,
Speaker 1: but you do, right, You shouldn't care, but you do.
Speaker 1: You know what you should care about, though, you should
Speaker 1: care that we give thirteen Fishings Whipper Snapper jerk Bait
Speaker 1: a five out of five star review because we do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do, and you should because uh, well, for one thing,
Speaker 1: they sponsor this show, they do, but that I actually
Speaker 1: I'm gonna set up part aside and said fish been
Speaker 1: fishing it recently, and I like that short bait so
Speaker 1: by it's it's just a badass, well tune little bait
Speaker 1: that that it plays plays big on small water right
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's skinny, it darts, it slashes, it
Speaker 1: slashes and darts. Um. And it's become a favorite of mine,
Speaker 1: like for wet waiting summer Smalley's and it's gonna hurt
Speaker 1: some trout this winter. I can't wait for that. I
Speaker 1: know it. Um, that's a kind of review. I could
Speaker 1: just cut and paste that right into the Amazon review
Speaker 1: and then Alan might buy one. Exactly. Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: only hope, and I hope you do that, but we
Speaker 1: The point being, Amazon reviews are a dark, dark, deep pit.
Speaker 1: I both love and hate them because it feels like
Speaker 1: we're in the situation where everyone in the world has
Speaker 1: turned into the characters from High Fidelity. You guys, it's
Speaker 1: not We're not not seriously, you're totally elitist. You feel
Speaker 1: like the unappreciated scholars. So your shipped on the people
Speaker 1: who know lesson which is everybody. Yeah, it's just sad that.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, we had Brad Leone on
Speaker 1: the show and Joe asked him which fish is the
Speaker 1: most overrated? Yes, right, And to my disappointment, he responded
Speaker 1: none of them, which was just a slightly lesser cop
Speaker 1: out than his refusal to choose between kvs He and Popeyes.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, give Brad a break. I like Brad,
Speaker 1: He's like a lot. But but to be fair to
Speaker 1: your point, right, that's that's how you survive public scrutiny
Speaker 1: and remain popular, like you enough sometimes right, Um? But
Speaker 1: even though so, maybe Brad is not welling a risk
Speaker 1: his reputation over like a knee jerk opinion. We are
Speaker 1: because we're not famous or popular, so I'll say anything
Speaker 1: to anybody. I don't give a ship, right, um, and Miles,
Speaker 1: we've actually compiled for you, like our Desert Island Top
Speaker 1: three lists of the most underrated fish to eat and
Speaker 1: the most overrated fish to eat. Yes, we will step
Speaker 1: out on this limb, put ourselves out there. So I'll
Speaker 1: start with with underrated. For me, my first one, and
Speaker 1: this isn't any order, just the first one. I'm going
Speaker 1: with escalar. We've talked about escalar in the past, but
Speaker 1: I feel like this is an underappreciated fish because, like
Speaker 1: they make it up, they have it's white tuna. White
Speaker 1: tuna doesn't exist. There's no need to dress it up
Speaker 1: under a fake name. It's so good on its own.
Speaker 1: The colloquial term you see sometimes uses butterfish, which I
Speaker 1: think is right because it's just rich and fatty and
Speaker 1: delicious pearl white meat and so good. Part of the
Speaker 1: reason I think that this fish gets hated on is
Speaker 1: if you look it up online, they're all they're they're
Speaker 1: a bunch of people. They're all these posts and things
Speaker 1: about how, oh, if you eat too much you'll get
Speaker 1: gastro intestinal issues. People call it x lax fish. I
Speaker 1: don't know, man. I've eaten a lot of escalar, also
Speaker 1: known as Waldo Waldo and Hawaii, and I've never ever
Speaker 1: had any problems, well, like if you eat too much
Speaker 1: taco bell, it will be the same problem. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But I did, I've eaten, I've eaten
Speaker 1: how I've eaten pounds of the ship in one sitting,
Speaker 1: Like I got a one time. I saw it in
Speaker 1: a local seafood place and bought like a whole steak
Speaker 1: and just whacked it up and ate it. I've never
Speaker 1: had any gastro intentional issues from from eating it. So
Speaker 1: that's why this fits on this list. I think. Don't
Speaker 1: believe the hype. Yeah yeah, so number two for me
Speaker 1: the second one. Anyway, blue gill and people at least
Speaker 1: in the Midwest right now are screaming about this and
Speaker 1: like blue gill aren't underappreciated. We love them all the time. Yes,
Speaker 1: some of you do, but a lot don't. A lot
Speaker 1: of people, if they're pan fishing, prefer to hold out
Speaker 1: for the croppy or the perch. I say, give me
Speaker 1: the gills right because they're easy to catch, their super available.
Speaker 1: You can you can limit out quickly. They're easy to scale,
Speaker 1: which I think is nice. And when you go out
Speaker 1: and catch up at the little ones, you just you
Speaker 1: scale them. You gut Hm, you fry them whole and
Speaker 1: it's damn good man. I think blue giller underappreciated as
Speaker 1: a food fish. Yeah, but see we have a different
Speaker 1: perspective on that because of that whole ease of catching things.
Speaker 1: So I've eaten blue gill right, and it is very good,
Speaker 1: no doubt. I think there's definitely a cultural thing here,
Speaker 1: and by and large, I think people in the Northeast
Speaker 1: don't eat bluegills, and to be honest, I have I
Speaker 1: have very little interest in it. And because I think
Speaker 1: part of what makes this is for me speaking for myself,
Speaker 1: makes a meal of fresh fish more enjoyable is the pursuit,
Speaker 1: you know, like you put in a long, hard day
Speaker 1: for those fluke or tuna or snakeheads or even big
Speaker 1: cropp ease. And do you ever have somebody joke like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I could go to the store and buy
Speaker 1: tuna for a lot cheaper than you just spent, but
Speaker 1: you know, run off short. But if you're an angler,
Speaker 1: that's all part of it. It's all like part of
Speaker 1: the pursuit. But bluegills are everywhere. In my opinion, it's
Speaker 1: like it's too easy, Like I can literally drive down
Speaker 1: the street with two slices of wonderbread and catch enough
Speaker 1: blue gills for a fish fry in twe I mean
Speaker 1: it's every single day from April to November exactly. Now.
Speaker 1: To me, if the only reason you fish is if
Speaker 1: to put food on the table, that's appealing, but it
Speaker 1: isn't for me, Like I'd rather use those blue gills
Speaker 1: to catch a flathead and then cook the flathead because
Speaker 1: now those easy bluegills are becoming part of that bigger pursuit.
Speaker 1: I see, I see what you're saying. But that's why
Speaker 1: I think they're underrated, because people take them for granted.
Speaker 1: And that's that's that's why there's no right or wrong.
Speaker 1: You're not wrong, it's just two different perspectives on it. Today.
Speaker 1: It's like that's so easy. They're swimming right there, like
Speaker 1: that's take like ten minutes exactly. Know which My third
Speaker 1: one is scorpion fish and this is my sleep this
Speaker 1: is the one. I'll admit this one with which I
Speaker 1: have the least experience, and and scorpion fish are they're
Speaker 1: really ugly if you've ever seen like, they're kind of
Speaker 1: scary looking it and they have these again bad reputation.
Speaker 1: They have venom in their dorsal fins, and if you
Speaker 1: step on one, it can give you nasty sting. And
Speaker 1: I have avoided them up until recently. But not too
Speaker 1: long ago, I was I was back in Hawaii and
Speaker 1: my cousins brought a big, like a whole big scorpion
Speaker 1: fish back to the house. And I will never shy
Speaker 1: away from those fish again. It was so good. It
Speaker 1: was so good. And they're they're scorpion fish all over
Speaker 1: the world. You can find them in all the different
Speaker 1: oceans all over the place. Their meat it's like firm
Speaker 1: and it's white, and it's just delicious they have. It's
Speaker 1: not one of those bland white meat fish. It's got
Speaker 1: interesting texture and flavor. And they also have these massive heads.
Speaker 1: They're kind of like they look like giants sculping. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you can take those heads. And this is for real.
Speaker 1: I just did it. They make the best fish stock
Speaker 1: I've ever eaten, so good. I've never eaten scorpion fish.
Speaker 1: I I love to try it, I just have not
Speaker 1: had um the chance. So I'll switch into my list here,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but
Speaker 1: my number one most underrated take a guess, I think,
Speaker 1: I know, I think I know where you're going. Right.
Speaker 1: It is really the only fresh water fish I genuinely
Speaker 1: get excited to eat because it's just so different from
Speaker 1: your standard walleye or catfish. UM. And I've never fed
Speaker 1: it to anyone an he's skeptic that wasn't blown away
Speaker 1: by everything about it after they tried it. I have
Speaker 1: no personal experience, but I've I've heard your gospel, and
Speaker 1: I look forward to crushing some fried snakes on your
Speaker 1: back porch with a double tall cocktail. I hope we
Speaker 1: do it someday soon, because I want we will do that.
Speaker 1: We need to do that. Um. Next up for me, right,
Speaker 1: would be the Atlantic bonito, which is not to be
Speaker 1: confused with the bonita, the A and the O. Okay,
Speaker 1: very important because bonita with the A and that's just
Speaker 1: the common Southern name for false albacore. Right, Bonito with
Speaker 1: the O or lumped in with the mackerels and tunas,
Speaker 1: and they don't freeze, well, they freeze like ship. But
Speaker 1: Benito is outstanding. It makes terrific Yeah, yeah, it makes
Speaker 1: terrific sashimi poku sevich. It's outstanding on the grill and
Speaker 1: it's very flavorful without any of the like the really
Speaker 1: strong oily taste of a lot of the mackerels. I
Speaker 1: kind of liken it to it's like Spanish mackerel meats
Speaker 1: yellow fin kind of. And they're also just a blast
Speaker 1: to catch on light tackle, just speed demons. I only
Speaker 1: got to do this once, but I can confirm when
Speaker 1: when eating fresh bonito or damn good, I'm waiting there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and last and last, i'd say northern Pike. And I
Speaker 1: fully understand that's that's not the case on parts of
Speaker 1: the midwest of Canada UM where I live, though, and
Speaker 1: even I think kind of out west where you are, UM,
Speaker 1: people just still want the wall eyes and the perch
Speaker 1: and the pike kind of get overlooked. And I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I ever had it was in Saskatchewan,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get over how good it was. I
Speaker 1: actually like it better, dare I say, than Wally, And
Speaker 1: I've had it a bunch since. I'd actually eat it
Speaker 1: more often locally, But anyone who watched season one of
Speaker 1: b Side Fishing knows my local pike water is full
Speaker 1: of PCBs and heavy metals, so I refrain from doing
Speaker 1: that but when I get a chance from cleaner water.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. You know, so I underrated overrated Europe. I know,
Speaker 1: I know what. I know what one of your overrated
Speaker 1: you do everybody knows before I get there. I'm with
Speaker 1: you on the pike, which which actually that totally teased
Speaker 1: me up for my first overrated fish. We don't really
Speaker 1: need to talk about this. We've already done it. It's Walleye,
Speaker 1: end of story. We can move on. We get it.
Speaker 1: Number two for me though, Marlin, Okay, marlin are amazing
Speaker 1: sport fish. But the only marlin I've ever eaten that
Speaker 1: I thought was really good, like I look forward to,
Speaker 1: was smoked, and we've it Wasn't the fish right? If
Speaker 1: it's it's the preparation, So steak Marlon, you can. I'd
Speaker 1: rather that fish be swimming around. It's just not to me.
Speaker 1: It's just not worth it. My number three and and
Speaker 1: this is probably the most overrated food fish on the planet.
Speaker 1: It if you ask me, salmon. I do not understand
Speaker 1: why people like salmon so much. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: It's fine, but I can't. I cannot, for the life
Speaker 1: of me to understand why salmon is the most ubiquitous
Speaker 1: food fish on the planet. It's it's just not that good.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's often mushy, and it's either fishy or
Speaker 1: just totally bland. Sorry, I don't get the salmon thing.
Speaker 1: It's just I don't get it. I did. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: right there with you on all accounts here, right, Like
Speaker 1: I don't get the wall Like Craze, I I'd never
Speaker 1: personally kill a marlin, period, right. And while I like
Speaker 1: salmon sushi, I could frankly just give a shit about
Speaker 1: a cook piece of salmon now, like fresh caught in Alaska. Sure,
Speaker 1: like that's like a treat, right, Otherwise like farmed or
Speaker 1: shipped out. I just I'm just not interested. And similarly,
Speaker 1: I also find just trout extremely overrated. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I piss anyone off of that, but
Speaker 1: I just think trout are bland end and completely uninteresting.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about wild ones too, not just stockers, right,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the wild ones too. It's edible and
Speaker 1: like you feel all cool cooking one, you know, on
Speaker 1: a campfire. It's yeah, I was about to say, it's
Speaker 1: good if you're like out in the back country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because then it's like it's like part of the little experience,
Speaker 1: like you know. But but will I ever be excited
Speaker 1: to eat a trout? No, I will not. Um. And
Speaker 1: finally I find I find fluke and flounder very overrated,
Speaker 1: and so many of my Jersey people are cursing me
Speaker 1: out right now. It's good, it's very good, but it's
Speaker 1: so mild to me. It's one of those fish that
Speaker 1: just tastes like whatever you put on it. Um. And
Speaker 1: as far as Northeast inshore fish go, I will take
Speaker 1: a dog or a black sea bass over a fluke
Speaker 1: any day of the week. So all right, there you
Speaker 1: have it. Waly and salmon universally overrated. We might be
Speaker 1: the only people who pick scorpion fish and snaked over salmon.
Speaker 1: Although something tells me that our first guest, who we've
Speaker 1: had on this show before and is not afraid to
Speaker 1: express controversial opinions, Abby Schuster, might actually agree with us.
Speaker 1: So must week on Trivia, Miles is going to ask
Speaker 1: Abby about a kind of salmon that actually might be underrated,
Speaker 1: at least as a food fish. You gotta be highly
Speaker 1: skilled for these shows. You understand that if I don't
Speaker 1: under are you well versed there? You very smart man.
Speaker 1: All right, joining us for our trivia game today, we
Speaker 1: have guide captain and owner of Kisman Outfitters on Martha's Vineyard,
Speaker 1: Abbey Schuster. Abby. Thanks for making some time for us,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me absolutely all right. So we brought
Speaker 1: you here to play a little trivia, And uh, I
Speaker 1: guess I feel sort of honor bound to inform you
Speaker 1: that in our version of trivia, you you can't actually
Speaker 1: win anything, but you do risk losing some dignity. So
Speaker 1: you know, but bar trivia, you win something you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have a beer around of drinks or something. Nothing, No
Speaker 1: free drinks here, you get nothing. Uh So the first
Speaker 1: time you and I crossed paths, I was working on
Speaker 1: an Atlantic salmon film project, and you were you were
Speaker 1: like one of our go to people to help tell
Speaker 1: the story of the younger generation of East Coast anglers
Speaker 1: who grew up without the chance to fish for Atlantics,
Speaker 1: and and I just that was like my first introduction
Speaker 1: to who you were and which you were all about.
Speaker 1: And and also the first time I really dug into
Speaker 1: that sad story, which is kind of a shame. It's
Speaker 1: not hopeful one. And that's something you know, we've touched
Speaker 1: on a little bit here in the past, and hopefully
Speaker 1: we'll be able to touch on the future with with
Speaker 1: some more positivity. And so just from from that experience,
Speaker 1: I know that you have a decent knowledge base when
Speaker 1: it comes to Atlantic salmon, and and regular listeners to
Speaker 1: this show will know that I probably spend a maybe
Speaker 1: too much time talking about Pacific salmon. So instead of
Speaker 1: all that, I am going to ask you about Australian salmon.
Speaker 1: Do you feel good about that? This sounds like it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a fun question, because the intro was kind
Speaker 1: of downer. I gotta say I had to turn it around.
Speaker 1: I had to turn Let me just say that you're
Speaker 1: going to win the legs and you're dying. But here's
Speaker 1: the good part. Ozzie's love to have a good time
Speaker 1: and Australian salmon are are not in trouble at all.
Speaker 1: So let's play. These are all multiple choice, Okay, all right?
Speaker 1: Which of the following is not a colloquial name for
Speaker 1: Australian salmon A Hawaii b cocky salmon see new fish,
Speaker 1: d budgee salmon, or e colonial salmon. Which one of
Speaker 1: those is not a name for Australian salmon. You're going
Speaker 1: with colonial salmon. Yeah, I'm sorry, that is incorrect. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: it would be d the Budgee salmon, because I totally
Speaker 1: made that up. Because that's a reference to the budget smuggler,
Speaker 1: which is a very different slang term in or either
Speaker 1: you guys familiar with that one? Nope, but you have
Speaker 1: to you have to tell now, don't make me Urban dictionary.
Speaker 1: You should. Uh, you don't even have to do that.
Speaker 1: So the budget smuggler, if you if you refer to
Speaker 1: that in Australia, you would be talking about a very
Speaker 1: small speed. Oh that's that's what Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And the term is actually so common that it was
Speaker 1: entered into the Oxford English Dictionary in just moving on,
Speaker 1: you got you got a chance for redemption here? Can
Speaker 1: I just ask a question? One quick question? You can, okay,
Speaker 1: just because I have to know when we say Australian salmon,
Speaker 1: that's not like they don't call salmon something. More questions
Speaker 1: and maybe this will all be revealed, right, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry, all right, Always always get
Speaker 1: ahead of things, Joe, I'm a thinking man. I'm a
Speaker 1: thinking man. Question number two, which species are Australian salmon
Speaker 1: most closely related to Pacific salmon, Atlantic salmon or three
Speaker 1: finn salmon? Oh, Pacific salmon. Yeah, I'm sorry, you're you're
Speaker 1: kind of on street here. Nobody knows these. Don't feel bad.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he's talking about. To be fair,
Speaker 1: I knew that one, but but I'm weird. So let
Speaker 1: me clear this up. Neither Australian salmon or thread finn
Speaker 1: salmon are actually salmon, nor are the two of them
Speaker 1: even that closely related. They're just closer to each other
Speaker 1: than they are the actual seal monits. There are no
Speaker 1: actual native seal monits in Australia. This is uh, this
Speaker 1: is one of those cases where like the settlers who
Speaker 1: came from elsewhere went to Australia and and and the colonists,
Speaker 1: we're trying to name fish, and they just named them
Speaker 1: after fish. They already recognized and reused old names, even
Speaker 1: though the two weren't related at all. Kind of like,
Speaker 1: that's why that's why they have ten million cod? Yeah cod? Right,
Speaker 1: they call everything a cop But we're going we're going
Speaker 1: long because I really like this category. So for once,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have three questions. You still have a chance
Speaker 1: to bring it back. I believe in you here, I
Speaker 1: believe in you. I'm nervous. You got this all right.
Speaker 1: Last question. Australian salmon are of particular interest to fisheries
Speaker 1: biologists because they seem to be successfully adapting their diet
Speaker 1: as as water temperatures warm around Australia from climate change
Speaker 1: and the food sources shift. So now they feed almost
Speaker 1: exclusively on pelagic baitfish like pilchard, scat and anchovies. Right
Speaker 1: that they're just they're eating those. But before climate change,
Speaker 1: they used to have a very different diet. What did
Speaker 1: they previously eat? A octopuses, b eels, see vegemite or
Speaker 1: d squid. Uh, I would go with eels. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is just not your day. I'm very sorry. I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew it all. I knew you'd bring along. It
Speaker 1: was like the coming hot you turned it around. You
Speaker 1: really you really redeemed yourself on that one. And uh,
Speaker 1: and we appreciate you debasing yourself enough to that was
Speaker 1: a tough one. That was a tough one. That was
Speaker 1: that was a tough friend. It was I know, we
Speaker 1: I believe me. I asked all those questions because I
Speaker 1: already know you're an expert on like salmon, so I
Speaker 1: knew I couldn't put anything over on that. I had
Speaker 1: to go a different direction. Abby, Thanks so much. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking time. Thank you. Have you ever
Speaker 1: eaten Australian salmon? No, I've never. I've never caught one.
Speaker 1: I've never held one. I've never seen one. I've read
Speaker 1: about him, and I know people who catch them. It
Speaker 1: seems like they're kind of they're like the blue fish
Speaker 1: of Australia. People think that's toily and they're only smoked right,
Speaker 1: But I don't have any personal experience to draw from,
Speaker 1: right and saying you can't pass judgment on any fish
Speaker 1: without the pe, because we call it in media personal experience,
Speaker 1: you know pe, like I said I did. I didn't
Speaker 1: think pike would be good until somebody fed it to me,
Speaker 1: and that experience allowed me to get excited about having
Speaker 1: fried pike. When I was out in Wisconsin last summer,
Speaker 1: I knew what I was in for and um our
Speaker 1: next guest cooked it for me, Tim Land where who
Speaker 1: runs Tight Lines fly fishing company. Um Tim showed me
Speaker 1: some incredible smallmouth fishing on the Manominee River. And uh,
Speaker 1: this week he's got a tackle hack that might help
Speaker 1: you out when it comes to finesse fishing on the
Speaker 1: surface in the heat of summer. I'm getting hats coming
Speaker 1: from inside the city. Hike up, flood. Welcome to tackle Hacks,
Speaker 1: where we call up somebody who knows a lot more
Speaker 1: about fishing than we do to pass along some some knowledge,
Speaker 1: some tip, information, something that will make you a better angler.
Speaker 1: And today we've got my buddy Tim Land. We're on
Speaker 1: the phone from Tight Lines Fly Fishing Company up in
Speaker 1: Green Bay. What's going on, man? Not much? How you doing, Joe,
Speaker 1: I'm doing great. I'm gonna be better when this is
Speaker 1: done because I'm gonna know something I didn't know before
Speaker 1: and there there thereby be able to fish better. So
Speaker 1: excited for learning for us. So I mean, you're you
Speaker 1: specialize in all kinds of things which you do a
Speaker 1: lot of small mouth predominantly fly. Um make us, make
Speaker 1: us better long rot anglers, people who call it long rotting.
Speaker 1: You just dropped pearls of wisdom right now, pearls wisdom
Speaker 1: on your fellows. Well, one of the things that we
Speaker 1: see right now, once we've rolled into our July and
Speaker 1: August time on the river, the river drops out, we
Speaker 1: lose all the water flow and we have to get
Speaker 1: a little bit more technical, a little bit more finesse,
Speaker 1: especially with our top water stuff. And what we see
Speaker 1: an awful lot of times when we go to darker
Speaker 1: colored patterns blacks olives, they blend perfectly into the river
Speaker 1: so you can't see them, and the bites can be
Speaker 1: very very small. So what I always do my hat
Speaker 1: tackle hack is I buy the cheapest fluorescent orange fingernail
Speaker 1: polish that I can find, and what I'll do is
Speaker 1: I'll just keep that in my boat bag, you know'll
Speaker 1: paint the top of a popper or the top of
Speaker 1: a wiggly pattern with just that. Or if you guys
Speaker 1: remember the old pulsa strike indicators with the adhesive the
Speaker 1: adhive back. Yeah, yeah, crazy, Yeah, they're they're awesome. We
Speaker 1: we still sell them in the shop. They're they're they're great.
Speaker 1: I cut those in half and that adhesive is good
Speaker 1: enough on those, as you know, because you can't get
Speaker 1: the ship off your leader after you put them on there.
Speaker 1: But you put that on the back of a popping
Speaker 1: bug or a wiggly and now your clients can see
Speaker 1: it and you can see it. So those two little
Speaker 1: combination things in my boat bag are there all the
Speaker 1: time for low water season. That's a great tip. Man.
Speaker 1: Why do I feel like I'm the only one that
Speaker 1: doesn't like the pulse and you guys are like, oh
Speaker 1: love those And I was they used to twist my
Speaker 1: line like crazy there. I must to put them on
Speaker 1: wrong or something. I think that was a you problem, Joe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably it's I think it's you'll be back next week
Speaker 1: to give us a half on how to properly put
Speaker 1: those on and remove them with Google from all the
Speaker 1: ship that leaves on your leader. Yeah, that was presented
Speaker 1: as a fly specific hack, but I can see that
Speaker 1: working with conventional two right. Contrary to popular opinion, midsummer
Speaker 1: fish will still eat on top, sometimes not as much,
Speaker 1: but but sometimes you have to get more subtle and
Speaker 1: smaller with your presentations. You can't just throw out the
Speaker 1: big stuff and like have a big weight coming back.
Speaker 1: You gotta go slow and you gotta go small. And
Speaker 1: and that's where his his hack really helps out in
Speaker 1: my experience, that's true, at least for all river fish
Speaker 1: from trout to bass, even muskie. Right, if you go
Speaker 1: super slow and downsize your baits, you might get blown
Speaker 1: up on top Tim, Tim knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: Oh I can. I can attest the Tim's prowess man.
Speaker 1: His guide service and shop have five well deserved stars
Speaker 1: on Google reviews. Good for him, must be good. Dude
Speaker 1: obviously knows his stuff. Um, but we're about to find
Speaker 1: out which one of us knows his stuff. In this
Speaker 1: week's battle Fulfill's Best Review, it's time for fish news.
Speaker 1: Fish news that escalated quickly before we hit news. We
Speaker 1: have a little housekeeping. A couple of weeks ago, I
Speaker 1: covered a news story about people painting turtles, and a
Speaker 1: shocking number of you wrote in to tell me all
Speaker 1: the reasons why a person might feel compelled to paint
Speaker 1: a turtle shell. And so I feel like I have
Speaker 1: to I have to give voice to some of these
Speaker 1: because I was dumb. I have to. Ryan Knapp wrote,
Speaker 1: Snapping turtles get run over by cars all the time.
Speaker 1: They migrate to find places to lay their eggs in
Speaker 1: sandy banks, then make their way back to water. Their
Speaker 1: dark shells are hard to see against pavement. Hence traffic
Speaker 1: cone Orange not supporting it, but it's pretty obvious how
Speaker 1: someone could think they were being altruistic. So I missed
Speaker 1: the obvious one there. Oh yeah, So then we got
Speaker 1: one from listener Cody Cantrell, who apparently comes from a
Speaker 1: long line of turtle painters, because he wrote a heartwarming
Speaker 1: tale about how he and his grandma used to enjoy
Speaker 1: watching three toad box turtles on their walks together, and
Speaker 1: how they would mark the shells with now polished so
Speaker 1: they could distinguish and better get to know their local turtles. Um.
Speaker 1: His town also has a spring festival that involves a
Speaker 1: wild turtle race for kids, and he has painted the
Speaker 1: shells of his kids racing turtles in various themes. So
Speaker 1: we can meet that one too. And I felt I
Speaker 1: felt a little like a jerk when I read that,
Speaker 1: because it was it was so heartwarming. Uh, I was.
Speaker 1: I was wrong on at least some level. I still
Speaker 1: don't agree with turtle painting, but I have been educated.
Speaker 1: You all have educated me on how it might happen
Speaker 1: with good intention. Yeah yeah, and like and like. The
Speaker 1: maya culpa was all fine and good, but several other
Speaker 1: listeners were disappointed in that story for a completely different reason. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Evan thread wrote, both Miles and Joe spent several
Speaker 1: minutes discussing the subject without making one single teenage mutant
Speaker 1: Ninja turtles reference. They are turtles who are named after
Speaker 1: famous painters. Semi colon. The jokes wrote themselves. I feel
Speaker 1: that this was a blatant oversight and a mistake that
Speaker 1: you both should have avoided. I am severely disappointed, and
Speaker 1: my day is ruined. I do believe this is something
Speaker 1: I can look past moving forward, though it may take
Speaker 1: some time. Man, that one hurt that would hurt Evan,
Speaker 1: and and it struck a nerve because as soon as
Speaker 1: I read it, I went yell, lew it And so
Speaker 1: we do apologize, uh and and for that and whatever
Speaker 1: else and to make up for it. I think this
Speaker 1: might help Evan. Here's Here's a final email from Aaron Littera,
Speaker 1: who has the whole thing figured out, and he wrote,
Speaker 1: here's my theory on the turtle that was painted from
Speaker 1: last week's Fish News. The turtle was painted orange to
Speaker 1: look like the legendary teenage mutant ninja turtle Michael Angelo.
Speaker 1: The perpetrator of this was none other than vanilla Ice.
Speaker 1: In a moment of nostalgic passion, he tagged the turtle
Speaker 1: and sang a little song as he worked. Go Ninja,
Speaker 1: Go Ninja, Go Go go Ninja. This is how the
Speaker 1: Secret of the Ooze comes full circle. Game set match.
Speaker 1: There you have it. There it is uh man, But
Speaker 1: who who knew myles stupid turtle painting story would elicit
Speaker 1: such rancor um? Slow? It was a slow newsweek people, okay,
Speaker 1: but better news. Uh, this is not a slow news week,
Speaker 1: so prepare yourselves. And as a reminder, this is a
Speaker 1: competition and normally Miles and I do not know which
Speaker 1: news stories the other guy is bringing to the table,
Speaker 1: but full disclosure, because we're about transparency here this week,
Speaker 1: we do know at least most of them, okay, because
Speaker 1: Myles has been cooking up a monster story. Um, and
Speaker 1: he knows I've been cooking up a monster story in
Speaker 1: the makeshift shed I built in the backyard, and I
Speaker 1: had just enough robotusts and left to have it ready
Speaker 1: for today. So even though there's uh not not much
Speaker 1: element of surprise between us, our illustrious audio engineer Phil
Speaker 1: will still be judging us, perhaps commenting on who delivered
Speaker 1: their news with more pep flair and zing now and
Speaker 1: since Joe's robo tripping and has been for days, I'll
Speaker 1: give the edge there, but we'll see. So you you
Speaker 1: are up first this week? Yes I am. I am,
Speaker 1: so I am normally up first. This would be my
Speaker 1: week to go up first, but I am seeding off
Speaker 1: position to you because I, as you mentioned, I've been
Speaker 1: working on a big story, so I only have one
Speaker 1: because it took a lot of time. Okay, So I
Speaker 1: think I think you should go first, and then I'll
Speaker 1: give my story and then you can close it up. Fair, fair,
Speaker 1: and and a lot of you already know where we're
Speaker 1: going here. And I gotta tell you, I thought that
Speaker 1: the outcry from listeners for for Miles and I to
Speaker 1: use our journalistic talents to uncover the truth about subway
Speaker 1: tuna was massive. No, nothing, subway tuna ain't got shipped
Speaker 1: on trout addicted to math Um the meth trout man
Speaker 1: in what is creeping in? On one year of bent,
Speaker 1: we have never had a link sent to us. As
Speaker 1: much as this link was sent, it's still being sent.
Speaker 1: I guarantee I have five new d M s right
Speaker 1: now with links to the story and it dropped over
Speaker 1: a week ago. I've got I've got friends from high
Speaker 1: school who I haven't talked to in years sending me
Speaker 1: this story, like my great aunt Like, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: where's this going? I don't even get a birthday card?
Speaker 1: But I got the trout meth um, you know, and
Speaker 1: and look. And I'll be honest, I did not click
Speaker 1: on the link for the first two days of getting
Speaker 1: it because I read the headline trout could become meth addicts.
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, nice, try, Like, you gotta be
Speaker 1: a lot smarter than that if you're gonna Rick roll
Speaker 1: Joe Shmelli is like, not today, Rick Astley, not today.
Speaker 1: But a few days and four thousand plus links later,
Speaker 1: I bit. So this is a real story. It has
Speaker 1: popped up on every news source in the world, I think,
Speaker 1: from Al Jazeera to your kids like weekly Little League
Speaker 1: news email um, and all the stories are pretty much
Speaker 1: saying the same thing. So for this, I'm going with
Speaker 1: the National Geographic version and their headline was trout can
Speaker 1: become addicted to meth. Here's why that's so scary. So
Speaker 1: here's the gist. You do your meth on your own time. Privately, right,
Speaker 1: and then you pee and poop and there's still traces
Speaker 1: of meth in your excrement and that goes to the
Speaker 1: wastewater treatment facility. And while these facilities are pretty good
Speaker 1: at removing contaminants from the wastewater before it returns to
Speaker 1: the river, they don't apparently do a great job with
Speaker 1: controlled substances, which means tiny amounts of that meth are
Speaker 1: ending up in the water flowing downstream from the treatment facility. Now,
Speaker 1: it's important to note that this doesn't just happen with meth, right,
Speaker 1: Like if you take birth control pills, do heroin, antidepressants, cocaine.
Speaker 1: Trace elements of all those substances can end up in
Speaker 1: the water this way. And you might be saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: but can enough really get in the water to make
Speaker 1: a difference. So, according to Pavel Horky, a behavioral ecologist
Speaker 1: from the Czech University of Life Sciences in Prague, they might.
Speaker 1: And the article points out that while Matthews has it's
Speaker 1: obviously always been a huge problem um in Eastern Europe.
Speaker 1: In the US, it's gotten worse since the pandemic. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Hokey proposed that these trace elements in the water
Speaker 1: could essentially make trout meth addicts, which could make them lethargic,
Speaker 1: give them withdrawal symptoms, and make it more difficult for
Speaker 1: them to find food and reproduce. So Quirky and his
Speaker 1: team conducted a lab study, and here's what they did.
Speaker 1: They dosed sixty captive bread brown trout with meth amphetamine
Speaker 1: laced water for two months while keeping another group of
Speaker 1: sixty control trout in a drug re tank, and the
Speaker 1: researchers ensured that the drug levels matched the meth levels.
Speaker 1: Other researchers have documented just downstream of wastewater treatment plants
Speaker 1: in Czechia and Slovakia, and in the first few days
Speaker 1: after being removed from the meth last tank, the fish
Speaker 1: moved around less, which the team interpreted as stress from
Speaker 1: drug withdrawal. Analysis of their brain tissue showed that the
Speaker 1: fish that moved less had the most meth amphetamine in
Speaker 1: their brains. The researchers also gave the trout from both
Speaker 1: groups a choice to enter one of two streams of water,
Speaker 1: one with meth amphetamine one without. The meth exposed trout
Speaker 1: preferred to swim in the meth lace water, particularly in
Speaker 1: the four days after their drugs supply stopped. Over time
Speaker 1: the studies trout preference for meth and phetamine declined to
Speaker 1: match those of the control fish, a clear sign of
Speaker 1: addiction withdrawal. Now, the article mentions a few other similar studies,
Speaker 1: one that found traces of cocaine in certain European rivers.
Speaker 1: They suggested that might interfere with the reproduction of endangered eels.
Speaker 1: In Canada, there was they did a study where they
Speaker 1: exposed young male fat head minnows to synthetic estrogen from
Speaker 1: contraceptive pills and found that when they did that, they
Speaker 1: didn't grow test these but produced eggs instead. But I
Speaker 1: think the most important thing to understand with all these studies,
Speaker 1: including the meth trout, is that all these things are
Speaker 1: are documented in controlled lab settings, right, but nobody has
Speaker 1: hard evidence about any of these substances having adverse effects
Speaker 1: in the wild, at least not yet. Because if you
Speaker 1: think about it, right, that's that's a pretty hard study
Speaker 1: because at minimum, right off the bat, you have to
Speaker 1: factor involution, you know what I mean, Like a sample
Speaker 1: taken at the outflow of the water treatment plant is
Speaker 1: gonna read different than one taking five miles downstream. You
Speaker 1: have to factor in rain, high water flows, low water flows.
Speaker 1: So they've they've proved that this could be a problem
Speaker 1: and the fish can be effective, which is real and fascinating.
Speaker 1: But I think so many people sent this because which
Speaker 1: is what a great headline does, right. It leads you
Speaker 1: to believe just a river of of meth addicted trout
Speaker 1: has been discovered, and it has not. But if it,
Speaker 1: I mean, that would because that would be something else,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I I assume that
Speaker 1: fish would have too few teeth to take a shot
Speaker 1: at a stream or crayfish, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: opting only for squaremy wormies or they just they'd be
Speaker 1: so indecisive and confused. They just have no idea what
Speaker 1: they wanted to eat. Yeah, the sty only with Jesus
Speaker 1: dike allly, you know right they as I don't think
Speaker 1: they'd be very hungry or that or they I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know enough about tweakers to know that food is
Speaker 1: not not high on the needs. Well, if it was
Speaker 1: marijuana getting into the water to be a completely different story, different,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But look, it is a
Speaker 1: fascinating study and the hope um is that these findings
Speaker 1: will push lawmakers to insist that wastewater treatment facilities alter
Speaker 1: their filtering and cleaning processes to catch these substances, which
Speaker 1: the story suggests is possible. Like that that can be done.
Speaker 1: It's just that they're not really factoring that. They're not
Speaker 1: really doing that, and it would mean investing in some
Speaker 1: new technology um and revamped water testing methods, but they're
Speaker 1: not really there yet, so appreciate it. Four thousand. I
Speaker 1: wish I could send all four thousand of you stickers
Speaker 1: for that one. You deserve it. But here's my question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of those four thousands, how many read more than the headline?
Speaker 1: And now I'm just gonna say to those of you
Speaker 1: out there who did send it to us, which we
Speaker 1: do appreciate, but I'm wondering, did you just see meth
Speaker 1: and trout and go, like, you know who I send this?
Speaker 1: Of course they did, come Miles. This is the world
Speaker 1: we live in digital media. Everything is a photo and
Speaker 1: a headline. That's what matters. It was a question, but
Speaker 1: my point was that, like, I hope that read the articles, Yeah,
Speaker 1: to take five minutes read the articles, because I did
Speaker 1: find this one to be fascinating. I read several of them,
Speaker 1: and I think your takeaway was exactly spot on the
Speaker 1: same thing I would hit on, which is that we've
Speaker 1: known for a long time. There're a ton of studies
Speaker 1: that show we are getting traces of all kinds of
Speaker 1: different pharmaceuticals over the counter and illicit that are going
Speaker 1: into the water making through wastewater treatment. This is not news.
Speaker 1: We've known about this for a long time. And wastewater
Speaker 1: treatment plants are starting to half. They're they're getting pressure
Speaker 1: to have to look at those contaminants as they need
Speaker 1: to get rid of just like they do eat cold
Speaker 1: I and others. Right, So that's great. I hope that
Speaker 1: pressure increases, and I hope we start making those changes.
Speaker 1: But the only difference in this studies that it was
Speaker 1: about meth. Yeah, Like no one cares about the title
Speaker 1: because the methods of methods pop culture. Man, I hate
Speaker 1: to say that, but likes so much more pop culture
Speaker 1: than um synthetic estrogen. Like that's not a T shirt,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There's there's there's no exactly,
Speaker 1: there's no breaking bad for tile and all. So um
Speaker 1: and listen, we're not coming We're not coming down. But
Speaker 1: this is a good point. I thought the same thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you guys are reading the headlines seeing brown
Speaker 1: trout meth and sending but if you read it, it's
Speaker 1: it's very different. So if you didn't read it, we
Speaker 1: now just kind of read it for you, so you
Speaker 1: got you got the whole picture anyway. That's maybe that's
Speaker 1: why they sent us like we don't want to Can
Speaker 1: you tell us where this is all about? Because I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna assume there's a bunch of cracked out trout,
Speaker 1: uh you know, likely in Delaware. I don't know who
Speaker 1: you know the yeah, yeah, so Trout aren't actually methodics.
Speaker 1: That's the takeaway for those of you who sent that.
Speaker 1: That's not true. The one I'm gonna hit I this
Speaker 1: isn't the newest in new for news, right it's the
Speaker 1: story is a couple of weeks old. But Joe and
Speaker 1: I talked about it when it first broke, and I
Speaker 1: intentionally held off because I wanted to give this one
Speaker 1: a little breathing room, Like are We were hoping that
Speaker 1: that the flames of internet fury might subside a little
Speaker 1: and calm down, and that and and and more importantly,
Speaker 1: we were hoping that more information would come out. But
Speaker 1: neither of those things has really happened. Yeah we're still going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're still going for it. So I rather than than
Speaker 1: waiting on an outcome that's probably not gonna occur, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna try to present the situation as clearly and
Speaker 1: accurately as I can given what I know, and then
Speaker 1: followed that up with my own personal take and reasoning
Speaker 1: behind my opinions. You can draw your own conclusions on
Speaker 1: this one. Plenty of people already have all right. On June,
Speaker 1: a guy by the name of Josh Jorgensen uploaded a
Speaker 1: video to his YouTube channel titled Biggest Tarpin Ever Caught, and,
Speaker 1: as is the case with most YouTube titles, this one
Speaker 1: didn't skimp on all caps lettering or multiple exclamation points. Uh.
Speaker 1: Jorgenson runs a fishing YouTube channel called black Tip h
Speaker 1: which you've probably heard of since it has nearly three
Speaker 1: and a half million subscribers, making it among the most
Speaker 1: watched phishing channels on the Internet anywhere in the world.
Speaker 1: Jorgenson is based in Florida, and his content focuses on
Speaker 1: large inshore saltwater species, primarily goliath grouper and sharks, often
Speaker 1: being fought on rod and reel by extremely muscle bound
Speaker 1: men and also sometimes women. I feel like I have
Speaker 1: to begin this by admitting my own personal biases. This
Speaker 1: this isn't the kind of fishing that I personally want
Speaker 1: to watch. I find I find his content gimmicky, one dimensional,
Speaker 1: and lacking in substance. Okay, that's my personal opinion. Get
Speaker 1: that out of the way. That's said. He has a
Speaker 1: much bigger audience than we do, so what he does
Speaker 1: obviously resonates with a lot of people, which is part
Speaker 1: of the reason why this video has struck such a
Speaker 1: chord with with opposing factions within the fishing community. The
Speaker 1: video recounts Jorgenson's recent trip to Bahia Solano on the
Speaker 1: remote Pacific coast of Colombia. It starts with a short
Speaker 1: travel narrative where Jorgenson explains some shock at a local
Speaker 1: restaurant that is serving cow tongue. And I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: I say this dude needs to dig a little deeper
Speaker 1: into his local Floridian cuisine because there's plenty of good
Speaker 1: langu with tacos in Florida. If you if you go
Speaker 1: to a taco shop and they don't have tongue, where
Speaker 1: I even dare say tripe sometime I'm like, play st legit.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you watched that video, but he
Speaker 1: has this whole beat and being like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: they serve tongue. Do you eat tongue? Like, dude, it's anyway,
Speaker 1: go to any New York deli, bro, you know, it's
Speaker 1: across many cultures, Jewish, Mexican. That would again, we know
Speaker 1: my biases, but that that particularly bugged me a little. Anyway.
Speaker 1: So the video does the standard travel narrative montage and
Speaker 1: they get to a remote lodge, but they pretty quickly
Speaker 1: jump into the fishing part where Jorgensen hooks and lands
Speaker 1: his first ever rooster fish. Normally, a feet like that
Speaker 1: would be celebrated in YouTube fishing videos like it would
Speaker 1: there be build up, there'd be excitement, but they moved
Speaker 1: through his first rooster fish pretty quick. A few minutes later,
Speaker 1: his bait gets blown up by a mystery fish. He
Speaker 1: reels down on the circle hook and a massive tarpean
Speaker 1: erupts out of the water, and of course after that,
Speaker 1: all hell breaks loose. Most of the video consists of
Speaker 1: Jorgensen and two others holding onto a stout spinning rod
Speaker 1: flexed over the rail of the boat and a real
Speaker 1: dumping line. Jorgensen decided to hand the rod off to
Speaker 1: a friend mid battle, be as a recent UTV accident
Speaker 1: left him with a back injury and fighting this massive
Speaker 1: tarpain clearly caused him pain. They start off estimating the
Speaker 1: fish around a hundred and fifty pounds, but as they
Speaker 1: fight it and see more of it, their estimates of
Speaker 1: its size continue to grow. After an hour fight, they
Speaker 1: get the fish boat side. Jorgensen puts one arm up
Speaker 1: through the fish's gilt plate, reached his other arm into
Speaker 1: the fish's mouth, locked hands, and began to lift the
Speaker 1: tarpaun over the gunnale. Mates and friends gathered to help,
Speaker 1: and they eventually hoisted the giant fish into the boat,
Speaker 1: took some measurements, posed for photos, and then threw the
Speaker 1: fish over the side back into the ocean. After releasing
Speaker 1: the fish, they estimated that weigh fifty pounds. Back at
Speaker 1: the lodge, they punched the measurements into a tarp and
Speaker 1: weight calculator available on the Bone Fish and Tarpin Trust website,
Speaker 1: which spit out an estimated weight of three hundred and
Speaker 1: twelve pounds. The current I g F a world record
Speaker 1: tarpin weighed two d and eighty six pounds nine ounces,
Speaker 1: so if that's correct, this fish would have well surpassed it.
Speaker 1: Jordan's video then then goes into interviews, one with an
Speaker 1: experienced trophy tarpin captain, the other with a saltwater fish
Speaker 1: taxidermist who has created over a thousand tarp amounts. Both
Speaker 1: individuals verified that they believe this fish to have been
Speaker 1: over three pounds after looking at flows in video. Jorgensen
Speaker 1: closes his YouTube video with a monologue that stops short
Speaker 1: of admitting that he would have kept the fish had
Speaker 1: he known it was a record. He kind of hints
Speaker 1: at it, but he doesn't come out and say it.
Speaker 1: He then says, quote, but I'm glad we let that
Speaker 1: fish go. It's still out there, still swimming around. It
Speaker 1: always feels really good. And now we can cue the controversy,
Speaker 1: all right, And this one has some layers. The main
Speaker 1: reason for the outrage has to do with the handling
Speaker 1: of the fish. One aspect of the story that is
Speaker 1: not opinion are the well researched effects of handling and
Speaker 1: release on adult tarpan. Adult tarpan, particularly the really big
Speaker 1: ones like this one often suffer significant injury when removed
Speaker 1: from the water. That's why Florida prohibits anglers from lifting
Speaker 1: fish overt out of the water at all. Additionally, all
Speaker 1: tarpin release best practices recommend reviving a fish boat side
Speaker 1: before it got it, especially after a long fight, which
Speaker 1: did not happen in this particular case. So bottom line,
Speaker 1: Jorgensen's decisions to remove that fish from the water and
Speaker 1: then dump it back overboard without reviving it, they do
Speaker 1: go against the prevailing science based recommendations for tarpin handling.
Speaker 1: I have to put a caveat on that everything he
Speaker 1: did is completely legal in Columbia, where he was fishing.
Speaker 1: He broke no laws at all. Okay, that's another point
Speaker 1: that you can't argue, that's a fact. The truth is,
Speaker 1: though no one knows for certain what happened to that fish.
Speaker 1: You got all these very vocal folks in the angling
Speaker 1: community that are making definitive claims that fish died, that's
Speaker 1: dead fish. And then you got Jorgensen and his supporters
Speaker 1: repeatedly countering the fish is fine. That I guarantee that
Speaker 1: fish is fine. It never it never goes belly up
Speaker 1: in the video, it disappeared, and I'm sorry, but the
Speaker 1: fact is that we don't know. All we have our
Speaker 1: belief and conjecture. That's it. Anybody's saying they know the
Speaker 1: fate of that fish is just being hyperbolic, all right.
Speaker 1: They're just pretending to know something they can't know, all right.
Speaker 1: But having settled that, let's break down a couple more
Speaker 1: elements of this story. First, the record, So everybody understands
Speaker 1: the minute that Jorgensen chose to hand his rod off
Speaker 1: to another angler, he lost any chance the records gone.
Speaker 1: I g f A rules prohibit multiple anglers from even
Speaker 1: touching the rod or the real all right, So even
Speaker 1: even if he had kept the fish and gotten certified weight,
Speaker 1: it would not have officially broken the record period. Second,
Speaker 1: another theme that keeps popping up on the social media
Speaker 1: sniping around this fish is the status of tarpan in
Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean. Tarban are native to the Atlantic, not
Speaker 1: the Pacific, but in the last decade or so, more
Speaker 1: and more tarpan are being caught on the Pacific side
Speaker 1: of Central America and northern South America. The prevailing hypothesis
Speaker 1: claims that tarpan has started migrating through the Panama Canal
Speaker 1: and are now establishing new populations in the Pacific. In
Speaker 1: the video, Jorgensen and his local guide refer to the
Speaker 1: fish as an invasive species. As you might imagine, the
Speaker 1: lack of clarity on how this fish got to these
Speaker 1: waters and if it's quote unquote natural, has fueled so
Speaker 1: many keyboard artillery barrages. Those in support of Jordan's and
Speaker 1: claim it doesn't matter how it ended the fish because
Speaker 1: it's invasive species. It was opposed to him counter that
Speaker 1: if a fish migrated to a new habitat on its own,
Speaker 1: it's non invasive. I've even seen people claiming that tarpin
Speaker 1: are actually native to the Pacific. We just didn't know it.
Speaker 1: But I actually looked. I couldn't find any credible evidence
Speaker 1: supported that claim, So that is questionable. I mean that
Speaker 1: that's all irrelevant, Like getting into that side of the
Speaker 1: argument in the case of this is stupid. But because
Speaker 1: so much of it is going on, I understand that.
Speaker 1: But like all all of those kind of arguments to me,
Speaker 1: are are deflecting from the biggest problem, which will close
Speaker 1: on which just like the improper handling of this could
Speaker 1: have been this could have been done respected could have
Speaker 1: been totally avoided. Here's the thing, man, we don't know
Speaker 1: where that population of fish came from exactly. People haven't
Speaker 1: figured that out yet. They're just starting to look into it.
Speaker 1: I find this to be a highly interesting topic, right,
Speaker 1: And I hope we get to cover this in an
Speaker 1: another segment that has nothing to do with a record
Speaker 1: or a controversy or a YouTube video, because i'd really
Speaker 1: like to know. Right. But exactly as you're saying, Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's pertinent in this case, it's not.
Speaker 1: And now I'll just I'll just add that I remember,
Speaker 1: I mean, this has got to be going back ten years.
Speaker 1: Somebody I knew who fished down there was like telling me, like, man,
Speaker 1: there's some tarp and showing up down there, and like
Speaker 1: I remember being fascinated by it then. But you're right
Speaker 1: in this case, it's it's very interesting. The how or
Speaker 1: why they're there is irrelevant in this The only way
Speaker 1: that would have like the way I could see it
Speaker 1: mattering is if and this didn't happen, but if Jorgensen
Speaker 1: had kept the fish, I then I could see the
Speaker 1: invasive claim coming into play, and I could see how
Speaker 1: that would fit here. But he didn't he released it.
Speaker 1: He just did it without proper handling, right, So I
Speaker 1: feel like, just like you said, it doesn't matter. Finally,
Speaker 1: of course, and I have to point this out. We
Speaker 1: wander into the whole you know, one side says you're
Speaker 1: just a bunch of one jill his haters, against the
Speaker 1: other side saying you're just a bunch of ignorant fish
Speaker 1: killing googins. And there's feces being flung around in the
Speaker 1: form of comments and stickers. God, and I find it
Speaker 1: just all completely counterproductive, right, And this is more personal opinion,
Speaker 1: but I think comments sections should just be eliminated from
Speaker 1: the Internet because that is where the worst elements of
Speaker 1: human nature get mainlined with steroids. Personal opinion. All right,
Speaker 1: here's what I think about this whole thing, and then Joe,
Speaker 1: you can tell me where you agree to disagree. But
Speaker 1: here's why I think went down. This is me projecting.
Speaker 1: Jorgensen didn't know he had a record tarpet on his hands.
Speaker 1: If he had, he might have made some different choices.
Speaker 1: He probably wouldn't have passed the route off though, Like
Speaker 1: like we said, he had a serious injury, so he
Speaker 1: might have been ultimately forced to do that anyway. I
Speaker 1: think had he known how big it really was, I
Speaker 1: think you would have just kept the fish and considering
Speaker 1: these circumstances. Had he done that, the result would be
Speaker 1: a lot less controversy. Had he decided to say, like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is a potential record fish. I want to keep
Speaker 1: it and mounted even if it's not an official record,
Speaker 1: I think most people would have understood that. I can't
Speaker 1: know his mind, right, I wasn't there, But if he knew,
Speaker 1: he wasn't planning to keep that fish, I wish he
Speaker 1: would have handled it according to best practices to reduce
Speaker 1: fish mortality. Right they were. They were fishing out of
Speaker 1: an offshore boat. I think that's an important point to mention.
Speaker 1: So it's got really high gunnals, so it would have
Speaker 1: made it difficult to do those best practices, but not impossible.
Speaker 1: Someone could have gotten in the water with the fish
Speaker 1: to take measurements and and help pose it for photos
Speaker 1: and video. You could have done that. The problematic aspects
Speaker 1: of the fish handling are meaningful, at least for me,
Speaker 1: because of Jordan's huge platform. We're not just talking about
Speaker 1: one individual fish that may or may not be in
Speaker 1: vase right. I get that that doesn't really matter. But
Speaker 1: millions of people follow and look up to this guy,
Speaker 1: and like it or not, what he does gets mirrored
Speaker 1: by other anglers, And to me, that's why it matters. Okay,
Speaker 1: we all make mistakes, and we all have a tendency
Speaker 1: to lose our heads when big fish are involved. I
Speaker 1: cannot imagine that I would have had anything near complete
Speaker 1: clarity of mind with a three hundred pound tarpet on
Speaker 1: the line, like freaking out both side. I would lose
Speaker 1: my ship. So I can understand and forgive the mistakes.
Speaker 1: I really can. My My biggest complaint with how Jordan's
Speaker 1: handled this situation is that he hasn't been willing to
Speaker 1: admit that he made any mistakes. If he were now
Speaker 1: to simply come out and say, hey, I didn't know
Speaker 1: we had and I had so much excitement and adrenaline
Speaker 1: when we landed the fish, I wasn't thinking through all
Speaker 1: the pintential implications. If I could do it again, I
Speaker 1: would do it differently in the ways for these reasons.
Speaker 1: If he would come out and make a statement to
Speaker 1: that effect, I think we could squash this whole thing.
Speaker 1: I think it would be over. But regardless of what
Speaker 1: he says or does. I think that the damage being
Speaker 1: done to the fishing community through this backbiting and sniping
Speaker 1: and this drawing of lines and the sowing of hate
Speaker 1: around this incident is so much more destructive than one
Speaker 1: dead fish. And and that's the real tragedy that I
Speaker 1: see in all this situation is the way that's playing out. See,
Speaker 1: I see another level of tragedy, and it's like a
Speaker 1: cynical one. But I can't I can't get my head
Speaker 1: around it. Like, this is my interpretation. Here's what I
Speaker 1: think happened. Obviously, they weren't tarp and fishing. That was
Speaker 1: a surprise fish. You know that they were doing something different, right,
Speaker 1: But I also think this this sort of speaks to
Speaker 1: just fishing content in general. Now my guess is as
Speaker 1: as a guy who's made a few videos in his day, right, this,
Speaker 1: this would be my guest. This goes down, they hook
Speaker 1: this fish, they're filming this because that's what he does. Right.
Speaker 1: Things are not handled properly. In the heat of the moment,
Speaker 1: you're not thinking straight. You have this huge fish. You
Speaker 1: just it's very easy to get that mentality of get
Speaker 1: it on camera, get it get it, get it, get it,
Speaker 1: get it, and we'll figure it out later. Right, it
Speaker 1: was not handled well. Things were done wrong. But then now,
Speaker 1: because the world you live in is based around your views,
Speaker 1: that is your world, that is what you do. You're
Speaker 1: sitting on this piece of footage and you have two choices.
Speaker 1: You could not post that because probably deep down inside
Speaker 1: you know you didn't handle that well, and that's not
Speaker 1: you know, setting a good example for your fans or
Speaker 1: it's like I'm not going to miss out on millions
Speaker 1: of views for this, And I think that's the route
Speaker 1: a lot of people take and why we end up
Speaker 1: seeing so many similar examples of poor fish handling and
Speaker 1: not best practices because so many people. You don't even
Speaker 1: have to be black Tip h with three plus million followers.
Speaker 1: I just think we see that all the time, like
Speaker 1: the the clicks and the likes and the views matter
Speaker 1: more than anything to too many people. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's that goes without saying right, you know, I agree
Speaker 1: with you there. First of all, if you or I
Speaker 1: have been in this situation, I would like to think
Speaker 1: we would have had a clear enough head to to
Speaker 1: not handle it this way, right, Like I've dude, I've
Speaker 1: dealt with you under pound tarpin um in Costa Rica,
Speaker 1: in fact, on the eastern side, and you you fight
Speaker 1: him to death, and those guys like we held that.
Speaker 1: I couldn't hold it anymore because I was dead. But
Speaker 1: like that guy cradled that fish and idled and mean
Speaker 1: we stayed with it for forty five minutes until it kicked,
Speaker 1: and then he still followed it on the surface for
Speaker 1: a while to make sure it didn't turn or anything,
Speaker 1: and went back. So I would like to think that,
Speaker 1: but if you made a genuine mistake, like you knew
Speaker 1: like this, I didn't do that right. It was a mistake.
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily malicious, it was just a mistake. It's
Speaker 1: like you have an obligation. You're setting an example as
Speaker 1: a media person, as somebody in the spotlight that has
Speaker 1: fans and you know is an advocate of this sport.
Speaker 1: You make that call, but that doesn't get you the views.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of that wrapped up
Speaker 1: in this too. Sad. I think you're right. I would
Speaker 1: like to think, well, I'd like to think we would
Speaker 1: handle it differently, but I could see. Listen, I've never
Speaker 1: faced a three pound dark, and I could see myself
Speaker 1: losing my ship, the one I didn't expect one right,
Speaker 1: I could see my I don't know that I would
Speaker 1: have done what he did, but let's just for the
Speaker 1: sake of argument. It happened to you or me, or
Speaker 1: we're filming together, that happens. I don't know that I
Speaker 1: would recommend my I don't think my position would be
Speaker 1: we should not show this. I think my position would
Speaker 1: be we should show this and talk about all the
Speaker 1: things we did wrong here. And that's another way to
Speaker 1: take it. Yeah, that would be I think a more
Speaker 1: productive way to go about dealing with this stuff to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, we we we got this crazy video.
Speaker 1: We want the engagement, we want this, but we also
Speaker 1: we screwed up and here's how and here's why. I
Speaker 1: also think in terms of him not admitting wrong, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen this before. To wherefore some people it's
Speaker 1: you you want something so bad, you want the glory
Speaker 1: of something so bad that you can literally talk yourself
Speaker 1: out of wrong doing so much that it just becomes
Speaker 1: the truth to you, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: you just you just say it so much to yourself
Speaker 1: that then it just you become convinced of it, but
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see how anybody could have posted
Speaker 1: this and not where how many videos have we had
Speaker 1: with the same thing. It's like, how can somebody post
Speaker 1: that not think people were gonna flip ship? Like you know,
Speaker 1: he knew, he knew. Um, so yeah, I'm sure a
Speaker 1: bunch of you guys have seen that. There's our our
Speaker 1: little take on that. That was that was heavy. We've had,
Speaker 1: We've had meth and now that I feel I feel
Speaker 1: a little dumb, but I also feel like it's not
Speaker 1: a bad idea to light in the mood before we
Speaker 1: close out here. That's your only story today. But that
Speaker 1: was a lot of research. That was a lot of research.
Speaker 1: So I'll wrap things up quickly this week. Um, let's all,
Speaker 1: we'll simmer down, we'll stop, we'll stop fighting and and
Speaker 1: doing meth, and we'll take all take a dive into
Speaker 1: my favorite file, which is fishing, gizmos, gadgetry and gimmickry,
Speaker 1: all right, and we'll just we'll talk about the hook
Speaker 1: and roll. And this is exciting because it plays into
Speaker 1: something we recently discussed on the show that being lower retrievers.
Speaker 1: Remember this, It wasn't that long ago, and we both
Speaker 1: pretty much agreed that they suck, like all those weights
Speaker 1: with the paper clip and the do Dad and do
Speaker 1: Hickey slide down your line. Uh, pretty much suck or
Speaker 1: at a minimum, don't work every time, or you know,
Speaker 1: aren't incapable of becoming snagged themselves. We'll guess what, forget
Speaker 1: the past, because the Hook and Roll is the last
Speaker 1: lower Retriever you're ever gonna buy. And uh, for many
Speaker 1: of you would probably be the first Lord triever you
Speaker 1: ever bought. And after hearing this, none of you were
Speaker 1: gonna buy it, whether you had one or not already. Uh.
Speaker 1: So this popped up in my news feed from the
Speaker 1: website Geeky Gadgets dot com. Uh. And of course, like
Speaker 1: many of these things, all the info is pulled from
Speaker 1: Hook and Rolls Kickstarter camp Pain, which, let me tell
Speaker 1: you so far, is not kick started very well at all. Uh.
Speaker 1: At the time of this recording, they were thirty five backers,
Speaker 1: so they've they've got a little way to go. And um,
Speaker 1: you've seen this video, right, so you know you know
Speaker 1: we're getting into air. What we have here, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: is a case of creating perceived value and performance simply
Speaker 1: by making something much more expensive, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And that's that's a tactic that works no doubt. Like
Speaker 1: if you're holding them like a three dollar broom and
Speaker 1: a thirty dollar broom at the store, and most people
Speaker 1: are gonna assume thirty dollar broom is better, let me
Speaker 1: tell you it isn't. My garage floor is no cleaner.
Speaker 1: Uh But anyway, big reveal here. The hook and roll
Speaker 1: does pretty much exactly the same thing as all the
Speaker 1: other lower retrievers that slide down your line and knock
Speaker 1: the lower free of a snag, except instead of being
Speaker 1: lead like the peasants use, the knocker device is made
Speaker 1: of high grade aluminum and stainless steel. It's rectangular in shape,
Speaker 1: it clamps around your line, and it's loaded with bearings
Speaker 1: so that it zips down your line very fair, creating
Speaker 1: zero friction, thus thwarting line chafing. Now, if the hook
Speaker 1: and roll doesn't knock the lowre free, don't worry, because
Speaker 1: it's tethered to a heavy duty braided line and that
Speaker 1: runs from the knocker device up to the hook and
Speaker 1: rolls own reel, which looks like a little tiny aluminum
Speaker 1: fly reel. But what that allows you to do is
Speaker 1: is also wrench on the line to pull the lower
Speaker 1: free or I guess you know, bend the hooks out
Speaker 1: without using your rod and fishing line to do this,
Speaker 1: like we all do. And the entire contraption is of
Speaker 1: course made to be worn on the outside of your
Speaker 1: fishing vest with your leader, straightener or not tool or
Speaker 1: whatever else you got dangling there. And here's the thing
Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear your your your opinion. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this won't work, but even this, it's not going
Speaker 1: to get every lower back all the time. And could
Speaker 1: this this can get snagged to anything with a weight
Speaker 1: and a rope that you send into the rip rap
Speaker 1: like it might not come back to I do like
Speaker 1: the dual purpose knocker puller, but this product, they're asking
Speaker 1: seventy five dollars and that's steep And if this were
Speaker 1: ten bucks, I might bite, But I'd still either forget
Speaker 1: to bring the product fishing or just lose it in
Speaker 1: the garage with all the other retrievers. So I'm still out.
Speaker 1: But the best part of all this is the Kickstarter video,
Speaker 1: and what I gather is that this is made by
Speaker 1: a European company because they talk about meters and stuff
Speaker 1: instead of feat But they're trying to make the video
Speaker 1: uber American. They have this scruffy they have this scruffy
Speaker 1: dud there that they've named Mike very American Mike um
Speaker 1: and he's supposed to be this sad bass fisherman that
Speaker 1: keeps losing lords, but the narration misses the mark. He's
Speaker 1: also he's also driving a Toyota high Lux, So that's
Speaker 1: kind of a dead giveaway, but I don't Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: one of the long skinny ones, also dead giveaway. But
Speaker 1: listen to this intro clip, Meet Mike, the saddest guy
Speaker 1: on the water. Mike just sacrificed his favorite lure to
Speaker 1: the river lake gods. He had no say in the matter, Like,
Speaker 1: who are the river lake gods? Did you catch that
Speaker 1: in there? Okay? They also they also flashed to a
Speaker 1: shot of Mike with a big, large mouth that's clearly
Speaker 1: his European head photoshopped on Denny Brower's so photo shopped,
Speaker 1: but but he's still a badass. Listen to this. He
Speaker 1: drove here with a glad heart, an open road, and
Speaker 1: the music as loud as he damned well pleased glad
Speaker 1: hearted who uses the term with That's some had some
Speaker 1: Hansel and Gretel ship right there. Um anyway, that's what
Speaker 1: I got the gizmo, gadgets and gimmick file this week. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, seventy five bucks buys a lot
Speaker 1: of Sanko's, so no thank you. But what do you
Speaker 1: What do you think? Dude? It's I don't know. You
Speaker 1: didn't scroll down far enough. Only gets the basic model
Speaker 1: if you if you want that sweet real contraption that
Speaker 1: comes with it, you're talking a hundred and nine dollars.
Speaker 1: Whoa wait a minute, I screwed up. So seventy five
Speaker 1: bones only gets you what? Then it gets you the retriever,
Speaker 1: a pack of lure clips, of really snazzy carrying case
Speaker 1: with velcro strips, an Alan wrench that they call a
Speaker 1: maintenance tool, full instructions, and a carabineer for your vest.
Speaker 1: But how do you slide it down the line if
Speaker 1: there's no line connected to it? You didn't read this
Speaker 1: at all? Did you? You have a bunch of gear
Speaker 1: for fishing, including the reels from your old rods? Cool?
Speaker 1: Then just grab this small but mighty retriever and use
Speaker 1: your old reels to complete the set. You were more
Speaker 1: thorough than I was, because another thing that crossed my mind.
Speaker 1: If you watch the video of the Lord being retrieved,
Speaker 1: it's like, how do you do this by yourself? Because
Speaker 1: they've got one dude pulling the rod tight that you'd
Speaker 1: sending it, which means you better also have a friend.
Speaker 1: So for like fifty extra bucks, they might be able
Speaker 1: to get you a friend as well. I gotta admit, man,
Speaker 1: I thought that this was pretty well done. And when
Speaker 1: I got down to the end of their marketing Spudle,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna sign up. They toltally got me,
Speaker 1: and then I dug deeper and like two bucks, and
Speaker 1: then I kept going deeper and like the next one
Speaker 1: offered is like, well, you might lose the retriever, so
Speaker 1: here's what it would cost for a set with a
Speaker 1: second retriever. And I'm like, wait, I thought the whole
Speaker 1: point of this was that you never lose it all right, now,
Speaker 1: I'm out. I was almost there. This is like what
Speaker 1: goes around comes around. It's like a lot of these
Speaker 1: gimmicks are just revamped versions of ship that didn't work
Speaker 1: the first two times they came around, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: we've come back around the lure retrievers, Like that's one
Speaker 1: that hasn't been reinvantaged. I want them to work. I
Speaker 1: want someone to reinvent the lure retriever in a in
Speaker 1: a way that that's functional and actually works. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe this is the one I wanted to
Speaker 1: be and if it really did work, if it really
Speaker 1: did work, I would, and two it I would, But
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced it will work. Yeah, if I knew,
Speaker 1: I could get all my line and lures back off
Speaker 1: the bottom of the Lake River and not have to
Speaker 1: worry about it. Yes, and the river lake gods anymore.
Speaker 1: If it was seventy get it for Christmas. But not that.
Speaker 1: But maybe you will get one and we'll we'll get
Speaker 1: to talk about that more later, perhaps over a drink.
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna go get as soon as we
Speaker 1: hear from Phil this week to see who won. Um
Speaker 1: here from Phil, then go pony up to that's my bar,
Speaker 1: Miles Nulty. Your story went deep, but unfortunately I am
Speaker 1: a shallow person. So the winner this week is Joe Surmeli. Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: I gotta complean about something. One of the reasons I
Speaker 1: actually named Joe the winner this week was because I
Speaker 1: have put something together. It's something I've actually been working
Speaker 1: on for the last couple of weeks. I have not
Speaker 1: told you about it. Um, you've probably heard of this service,
Speaker 1: this app, this website called Cameo, where you know, you
Speaker 1: can pay c list celebrities to record a little personalized
Speaker 1: video for you thirty seconds long. Maybe they were a
Speaker 1: list celebrities back in the day, but have you know,
Speaker 1: just dropped a few letter grades over the years. It happens, Joe.
Speaker 1: I know you are a big Jaws fan. I think
Speaker 1: everyone knows this. I put something together. Friend from high
Speaker 1: school actually works for Cameo. I don't know how he
Speaker 1: got that job, but he got it. I've been working
Speaker 1: with him to kind of find a little loophole to
Speaker 1: put this together. You could say that I had to
Speaker 1: jump through some hoops to make this happen. Catching on yet, Joe,
Speaker 1: someone has a little message for you, sucker. No, I
Speaker 1: did not get Richard Dreyfuss to record a cameo for you, Joe. Um,
Speaker 1: Richard Dreyfuss is on Cameo. This is true. You can
Speaker 1: look it up. He has one of the steepest prices
Speaker 1: out of anyone I've ever seen on cameo. So for
Speaker 1: the you know, lolo price of one thousand dollars, that's true,
Speaker 1: you can get a personalized video from Richard Dreyfuss. If
Speaker 1: you don't want to fork out that kind of money,
Speaker 1: you can get the kenting your kid that was eaten
Speaker 1: by the shark for thirty five dollars. So something to
Speaker 1: think about. Best god damn bar tender from Tim buck
Speaker 1: to to Portland's Maine Portland argument for that matter. Lately,
Speaker 1: I gotta say all of you out there, you the listeners,
Speaker 1: you you are getting back on point with the barn nominal. Yes, yes, applause.
Speaker 1: For sure, we are greedy and so we always want more,
Speaker 1: but I will say I will give credit recredits do
Speaker 1: We've been getting some really good ones, and and what
Speaker 1: I love about this is that I can see how
Speaker 1: this is. It's it's slowly but surely achieving the goal
Speaker 1: that we had at the beginning of establishing the best
Speaker 1: fish bars across the world. Yep. So, so this week
Speaker 1: we're headed to Maryland, and I'm pretty sure we have
Speaker 1: not hit that state yet, so we can we can
Speaker 1: put another pin in the that's my bar map. Yeah
Speaker 1: we can, we can. And this nomination comes from listener
Speaker 1: Kirk Marks, who wondered if I was familiar with this place,
Speaker 1: which I am not. However, I've been to plenty like
Speaker 1: it and and victimized at similar spots. But I'll get
Speaker 1: to that later. I'll leave you hanging to get right
Speaker 1: into it. Kirk writes, this bar is much more than
Speaker 1: just your typical fishing bar. If you're in the rock
Speaker 1: Fish chatter stripers for you Jersey folk, okay, uh, local
Speaker 1: beers watching newlyweds to face their wedding gowns and boat
Speaker 1: handling that could only be suitable for the qualified captain
Speaker 1: feed look no further than the Jetty Restaurant and dock
Speaker 1: bar in Kent Narrows, Maryland. So, in case you missed it,
Speaker 1: rock fish, that's what they call him in Maryland. It
Speaker 1: is incorrect, but that's still what they call them. He
Speaker 1: goes on, as any Chesspeake angler would tell you, the
Speaker 1: Jetty has a reputation. Accessible by boat or a car,
Speaker 1: the Jetty is a waterfront bar that offers pretty decent
Speaker 1: seafood and pub fair, but having some friends that used
Speaker 1: to work there, I gotta say I wouldn't recommend the oysters.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, Kirk. As a ravenous consumer of
Speaker 1: raw bar edibles and and having learned that the hard way. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta take it easy when there's a
Speaker 1: raw bar at the Chinese Buffet, found that out. It
Speaker 1: was difficult delicious going down, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear there that. Moving away from that,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say thanks as well, Kirk, because that that
Speaker 1: truly is a hot tip. God knows. When I see
Speaker 1: oysters on a beach side bar menu, I order them
Speaker 1: what I do, So I'm the guy that's like, keep
Speaker 1: them coming until I say stopped, all right, Kirk continues.
Speaker 1: Although I'm not certain of the name's origin, I assume
Speaker 1: it has something to do with the large concrete jetty
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty yards away that mysteriously pops
Speaker 1: up right in front of drunken boaters every summer. I
Speaker 1: waited tables at the neighboring fine dining restaurant for several
Speaker 1: years throughout my time in college. After a long shift,
Speaker 1: already half buzzed, from dehydration. The White Staff would make
Speaker 1: our weekly pilgrimage to the Jetty. Man, have I seen
Speaker 1: some ship there, Several good bar fights, some stellar live music,
Speaker 1: a handful of boating accidents, and I've even had the
Speaker 1: pleasure of watching a classy wedding party whom I served
Speaker 1: a few hours earlier get ship faced in a way
Speaker 1: only the Jetty can deliver. I I will say that
Speaker 1: I do wish Kirk had expanded on that story, but
Speaker 1: it's okay. I have it a vivid imagination. I can
Speaker 1: pretty well see where that went. Yeah, we'll choose our
Speaker 1: own adventure there. Uh. Fun fact though, I usually get
Speaker 1: drunk enough at the actual wedding reception that I'd never
Speaker 1: make it to the afterpart. That's just something about me. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the nomination continues. I have a feeling most folks come
Speaker 1: for the location and the entertainment alone. Hell, one time,
Speaker 1: as a young kid, I was fishing a spook from
Speaker 1: the dock and accidentally called a seagull. I remember receiving
Speaker 1: evil glares as if catching that bird was my intention
Speaker 1: all along. Point being, there's never a dull moment at
Speaker 1: the Jetty. And this is the part I personally sympathized
Speaker 1: with because there was a tiki bar right around the
Speaker 1: corner from where I slipped my my old boat, and
Speaker 1: the fun was just sitting there watching people, you know,
Speaker 1: try to pull into the dock for dock and dine.
Speaker 1: And I only ever did it once. One time, I
Speaker 1: just went straight there instead of going to my slip first,
Speaker 1: and I ended up like pinballing off a couple of
Speaker 1: pilings and that the whole bar like clapped, and who
Speaker 1: did And I was like, that's it. From now on,
Speaker 1: I will just dock in my slip and getting truck
Speaker 1: and drive over, so lesson learn there. I think that
Speaker 1: all seaside bars should have dock parking for exactly this reason.
Speaker 1: I don't need big screen TVs and and and sports.
Speaker 1: When I can watch people making asses of themselves trying
Speaker 1: to dock in front of a rowdy crowd. That's that,
Speaker 1: my friend, is real entertainment. We appreciate this with very much, Kirk.
Speaker 1: I'm always down for some solid people watching, and this
Speaker 1: sounds like the perfect place to do it. If you know,
Speaker 1: a fishy bar where you can see my tie while
Speaker 1: watching people like Joe crashed into the dock. Let us
Speaker 1: know where it's at by sending an email to Bent
Speaker 1: at the Mediator dot com. You know, I looked it
Speaker 1: up and the Jetty actually has excellent online reviews, does it?
Speaker 1: It does, over two thousand of them in fact. But
Speaker 1: I think um the fact that they served you know,
Speaker 1: stiff drinks waterside and makes people a little more lenient.
Speaker 1: Here's a four star review I found that Jess said,
Speaker 1: get some crushes, talk to the ducks, sit on the beach. Kitchen.
Speaker 1: Service was slow and orders came out wrong. Hey, on
Speaker 1: a beautiful day with a few drinks. It's not a problem.
Speaker 1: That's not not what I expect. It's perfect review. But
Speaker 1: if that dude, if he had that experience at the
Speaker 1: Olive Garden Inland, would be a whole different room. You'd be,
Speaker 1: it'd be it'd be one stars. That I'm pissed. It's
Speaker 1: that it's that old adage location location, location service might suck, food,
Speaker 1: might be all wrong, but you still get four stars
Speaker 1: because exactly stiff and I see the water. I like it.
Speaker 1: That's smart. We're gonna close out the show with an
Speaker 1: end of the line about a traditional lure for targetus
Speaker 1: species that used to be underrated but I'd say has
Speaker 1: caught on with the foodie crowd in the past decade
Speaker 1: or so, and it's it's no longer underrated. We're talking
Speaker 1: about delicious, delicious octopus. Well, that's not loud enough. When
Speaker 1: I was in middle school, our Hawaiian studies teacher assigned
Speaker 1: what I thought was going to be the greatest project
Speaker 1: of all time. We were each going to make a
Speaker 1: traditional octopus lure. I was ecstatic. Finally homework that centered
Speaker 1: on fishing. I imagined myself not just building the lure,
Speaker 1: but catching an octopus on it, maybe even bringing some
Speaker 1: in to share with the class. Then I got the
Speaker 1: materials list and realized we were going to make it
Speaker 1: out of toothpicks, chopsticks, and glue. Actual hooks were deemed
Speaker 1: too dangerous for a classroom use. I suppose the whole
Speaker 1: exercise felt representative of my frustrations with school in general.
Speaker 1: I had no opposition to learning. In fact, I relished
Speaker 1: new knowledge and skills, but we often received a pasteurized
Speaker 1: version of information. Everything was classroom convenient and safe, but
Speaker 1: it lacked direct application. Sure, I was going to make
Speaker 1: something that looked kind of like a traditional octopus lure,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't actually use it to catch octopus. So
Speaker 1: I failed to see the point. And I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I also failed that assignment. I always hated arts and crafts.
Speaker 1: Hawaiian octopus or lures haven't actually changed all that much
Speaker 1: since ancient times. They were first documented by Westerners in
Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds, and the ones for sale today
Speaker 1: at local tackle shops and hardware stores across the islands
Speaker 1: remain surprisingly similar. A cowichell attached to a weight above
Speaker 1: one or more hooks. Native Hawaiians used rope fashion from
Speaker 1: plant fibers to lash, an elliptical stone sinker, a cowichell,
Speaker 1: and a bone hook to a six inch wooden stick
Speaker 1: to create They would troll or jig the lures over
Speaker 1: pockets in the reef. Cowry are a favorite food of octopus,
Speaker 1: and the lures would often tempt hungry cephalopods out of
Speaker 1: their holes. Hawaiian historian Samuel Camacao described it this way.
Speaker 1: The handsome stone was husband to the cowari, and the
Speaker 1: colary was married to the stone. When the two matched
Speaker 1: in beauty and they swayed in dance in the ocean,
Speaker 1: the came to watch the joyful dance. Those of them
Speaker 1: who wished to kiss the calorie leaped to embrace and
Speaker 1: kiss her because they were aroused by the dance. When
Speaker 1: he took hold of the cowali, the fisherman pulled up
Speaker 1: the cord swiftly with his right hand, grabbed it with
Speaker 1: his left, and pulled hard against the side of the canoe,
Speaker 1: which forced the hook into the hay. Modern Hawaiian octopus
Speaker 1: lures have swapped out the wood and bone for metal
Speaker 1: and the stone for lead. Some still used calari shells,
Speaker 1: but others feel that's unnecessarily specific, claiming that a painted
Speaker 1: golf ball works just as well and is far more durable.
Speaker 1: Octopuses are pretty damn good at crushing shell after all. Basically,
Speaker 1: though the technology and technique remain the same, most of
Speaker 1: the lures I've seen for sale commercially also have six
Speaker 1: to ten inch metal times on the bottom, which allow
Speaker 1: anglers to drag them over rocks without getting hung up
Speaker 1: as often. When I was a kid, we occasionally spear
Speaker 1: fished for octopus, generally with very little success, but I've
Speaker 1: always been enthralled by the idea of catching one with
Speaker 1: a lure, which usually involves one of two techniques. The
Speaker 1: first is sometimes called drag shell essentially just slow trolling
Speaker 1: and octopus lure over promising bottom and waiting for one
Speaker 1: to grab it. The second is more sight fishing than trolling.
Speaker 1: Anglers take canoes, kayaks, or even surfboards out to good
Speaker 1: spots and then snorkel at the surface, carefully studying the bottom.
Speaker 1: When they see an octopus or what looks like a
Speaker 1: promising hole, they'll jigg a lure and try to entice
Speaker 1: the creature into grabbing it. One thing I do know
Speaker 1: from limited experience is that hooking or spirity and octopus
Speaker 1: is just the beginning. The real trick is killing them
Speaker 1: quickly and safely. As most people know, octopuses have eight
Speaker 1: arms covered in powerful suction cups, and they will grab, crawl,
Speaker 1: and yank hard at you to survive. They also have
Speaker 1: a nasty, sharp beak where all those arms meet that
Speaker 1: can take serious divots out of your flesh and possibly
Speaker 1: sever a finger. Once you get hand to hand with one,
Speaker 1: you want to kill it quickly. The hardcores, and traditionalists
Speaker 1: bite them between the eyes, crushing the brain almost instantly.
Speaker 1: I was never that much of a badass, instead using
Speaker 1: the howly method of stabbing them in the same spot
Speaker 1: with a dive knife. Not nearly as cool, but definitely effective.
Speaker 1: I know some people turn the heads inside out, but
Speaker 1: I personally recommend killing them first. Trying to turn a
Speaker 1: squirming and surprisingly powerful octopus inside out is not as
Speaker 1: easy as it looks on YouTube. I once read an
Speaker 1: essay called how to Kill an Octopus by Alison Wilkins,
Speaker 1: and one passage in particular has always stuck with me.
Speaker 1: An octopus can see light, They have great eyesight and
Speaker 1: sense of touch. Their suction cups have chemo receptors that
Speaker 1: allow an octopus to taste what it is touching. Imagine
Speaker 1: for a moment that the octopus is wrapped around your
Speaker 1: arm trying not to die. What do you taste like
Speaker 1: as you bob in the water with this creature and
Speaker 1: your weapon? What do you taste like as you kill it?
Speaker 1: That is the end of our show this week. But
Speaker 1: if you're planning to write us a review on whichever
Speaker 1: streaming service you prefer and need a reference guide for
Speaker 1: all the fantastic dishes we served up, scorpion fish are
Speaker 1: better than salmon. Australian salmon aren't salmon and should never
Speaker 1: be smuggled like budgies. Now polish does belong in your
Speaker 1: tackle bag after all, and octopus speaks can crush cowie shells,
Speaker 1: golf balls and your finger equally true story, Please keep
Speaker 1: those bar nominations, sale bind items, awkward photos, fish news stories,
Speaker 1: and Dear John letters coming to Bent at the Meat
Speaker 1: Eater dot com. Yeah, I don't forget to drop our
Speaker 1: favorite hashtags degenerate angler and Bent podcast on the Graham
Speaker 1: for the chance to win sticker prizes, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: go ahead and give us some good ratings on your
Speaker 1: favorite podcast service. Right now, we're tied with the Jetty.
Speaker 1: I think we can do better. MS lost by