Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand Up Tour continues this fall.
Speaker 1: For tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com
Speaker 1: slash tour See You on the Road. My name is
Speaker 1: Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is joy. I
Speaker 1: talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Speaker 1: Meet Bill Villanova. Bill's an undertaker. He's graduated in mortuary sciences,
Speaker 1: and he is one of the most interesting conversations I
Speaker 1: think I've ever had.
Speaker 2: Enjoyed this one. I want to talk to you about
Speaker 2: your job.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, before we talk about your job,
Speaker 1: because looking at your story it's I mean, you're a
Speaker 1: decorated Coastguard, right, a decorated member of the Coastguard. Now,
Speaker 1: the Coastguard is an area of the service I don't
Speaker 1: know much about. I don't think many people do. Can
Speaker 1: you talk me through what the coast Guard does?
Speaker 3: The Coast Guard, for the most part, they're you know,
Speaker 3: on duty twenty four to seven. You know, underneath the
Speaker 3: Department of Homeland Security. I had the honor of working
Speaker 3: alongside some very very talented men and women. I was
Speaker 3: with the Coast Guard Auxiliary and just what do you
Speaker 3: do that you get on a boat and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: so well, no bad guys. But we did safety patrols
Speaker 3: alongside the actual Coast Guard. We also had you know,
Speaker 3: we worked alongside them on some ships as far as
Speaker 3: they're you know, working in galleys and doing a port
Speaker 3: security during fleet week, and in New.
Speaker 1: York you need a lot of security for that. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's still a thing. I've forgotten about that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, well it's verry big both and then
Speaker 3: all the port areas here, you know, along the West
Speaker 3: Coast and the East Coast. But you know, as a career,
Speaker 3: I've always been dedicated to funeral service. But for me,
Speaker 3: it was always about volunteering and giving back to the community.
Speaker 3: And when I say interested, yeah, thank you. And so
Speaker 3: when I was younger, I started volunteering with the fire
Speaker 3: department in my local community, right, and I saw the
Speaker 3: opportunity to participate with the with the US Coast Guard
Speaker 3: in the auxiliary program, so I started to do that
Speaker 3: as well. And I did that for just about ten
Speaker 3: years until my life became more demanding. And then you really,
Speaker 3: you really can't serve too many masters.
Speaker 2: Right, I get it.
Speaker 1: So let me let me talk to you a little
Speaker 1: bit about the funeral business, which you ran and which
Speaker 1: you're still in, right, sir, Right, So, because it's an
Speaker 1: unusual thing, my presumption is a family thing or is
Speaker 1: it something you were drawn into?
Speaker 2: Because you are someone who's clearly.
Speaker 1: Drawn in a service, and in a way, funerals are
Speaker 1: kind of that. It's definitely a service and your intuitions correct.
Speaker 1: So was your family in the business when you were
Speaker 1: a kid? Is that how you were? You were pulled
Speaker 1: into it?
Speaker 3: When I was younger, I would cut the grass at
Speaker 3: my godfather's funeral home, and I would paint the stones
Speaker 3: on the driveway and then help with visitation and funerals.
Speaker 3: And my dad died when I was sixteen, so the
Speaker 3: male figure in my life was my godfather. So I
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time at the funeral home, right,
Speaker 3: And it was a normal transition for me to go
Speaker 3: into funeral service, and having that opportunity was I don't
Speaker 3: want to say it was simple, because it was a
Speaker 3: lot of work, a lot of dedication. Ultimately had to
Speaker 3: go to college and get a degree in mortuary science.
Speaker 2: Is that really?
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware that it was so tight well, I guess,
Speaker 1: of course it must be. I mean it's white and varied,
Speaker 1: and we'll get into that in a bit. But I
Speaker 1: guess you know, the tragedy of your father dying and
Speaker 1: your sex thing, which is awful and I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 1: That's a very tender age doing something which I'm guessing
Speaker 1: is getting the interest of a lot of the other
Speaker 1: kids at that time as well. Did it make you
Speaker 1: feel kind of weirdly apart from it or did it
Speaker 1: give you a kind of did you feel like this
Speaker 1: is something special and it's my family does this and
Speaker 1: we feel a little.
Speaker 2: I did feel special, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: And and even you know, funeral service, you know, wakes
Speaker 3: and visitations, you know, would go to nine ten o'clock
Speaker 3: at night.
Speaker 2: My friends were ready to go to the bar. Oh
Speaker 2: you see, my people we go for days, you know exactly.
Speaker 3: So you had this opportunity to work in a profession
Speaker 3: that was really it's a celebration of life like it
Speaker 3: is today as well, right, and so it was it
Speaker 3: was a normal thing to be around that it delayed
Speaker 3: me getting to some of parties and doing things with
Speaker 3: my family, even holidays. Yeah, you know, death doesn't take
Speaker 3: a holiday, right, and so you're always available to a family.
Speaker 3: And that's something I learned at a young age.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a vocational position then, right, it's
Speaker 1: not a job for everybody because you're dealing with I said,
Speaker 1: you're dealing with death.
Speaker 2: That's what you're dealing with.
Speaker 1: And in our society, you know, old society, it's been
Speaker 1: in our Western society, there's still a big taboo and
Speaker 1: a kind of a lot of fear around it, right.
Speaker 2: You know, there is, and it is taboo. There is
Speaker 2: some fear.
Speaker 3: You know, people feel that if you speak about death
Speaker 3: going to happen, if you discuss funeral services, you know,
Speaker 3: automatically you're accelerating your own mortality.
Speaker 2: It's like you're inside Maha, Bill, And that's and that's
Speaker 2: good too.
Speaker 3: So, but that opportunity for us to have those discussions
Speaker 3: about funeral service it is taboo. But we should be
Speaker 3: having those discussions now, sure. And you know, when we
Speaker 3: think about all the things that we prepare for. So
Speaker 3: I prepare to come here today to be with you
Speaker 3: and thank you again for having me, Craig.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you being here, and we prepare to you know,
Speaker 3: where we live, who we marry, where we go on vacation.
Speaker 3: All these things we prepare for. We should prepare for
Speaker 3: our funeral service. It's really a gift for our families.
Speaker 3: I have everything written down and like a like a will,
Speaker 3: like a will, I have a lot of information there,
Speaker 3: but it is going to be elaborate.
Speaker 2: It is going to be elaborate for you, man. I'll
Speaker 2: share part of it with you.
Speaker 3: So my thought is that as I leave church, if
Speaker 3: we can, when I enter the vestibule in the rear
Speaker 3: of the church, the doors will open, the vestibule be
Speaker 3: filled with smoke, love. The casket with the pall bearers
Speaker 3: will go into that smoke, and the doors would close.
Speaker 2: Oh this is great.
Speaker 3: They would hustle me down the stairs to the hearse,
Speaker 3: and the hearse would pull away, and then everybody would
Speaker 3: leave the church wondering where I went. You've gone, and
Speaker 3: only my family and friends will know where I am.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful, all right.
Speaker 3: Let me tell now you're one of my friends, Craig,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna let you know exactly where I'm going to be.
Speaker 2: Where are you going to be? I don't know? Okay,
Speaker 2: well you know, all right? Well, here's mine.
Speaker 1: I need you to tell me technically possible as and
Speaker 1: b later on maybe give me an astem at price wise.
Speaker 2: So I think in Scotland absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm on the beach in a Viking longboat, right, I'm
Speaker 1: tied up there, you know, on the pyre that will
Speaker 1: be lit. That's the boat's pushed out on a flu tide. Right,
Speaker 1: I'll be pushed out and as the wind takes the
Speaker 1: sail and carries my boat to see my two sons
Speaker 1: will fire flaming arrows into the boat and the boat
Speaker 1: will burn as I head out to Valhalla.
Speaker 2: So is that normal? Is well? Is it normal today?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: But was it normal at one time?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Certainly.
Speaker 3: But you know, just to ground that conversation, we're a
Speaker 3: society that's based on rights and rituals, and so for
Speaker 3: you to even say that now, whether you're joking or not,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of half joking, all right, but that is
Speaker 3: something that if that's if that's what you aspire to
Speaker 3: have happened, then you start to plan that now, right right,
Speaker 3: And so if we do need to speak to you know,
Speaker 3: the councilmen in Scotland, right because you need.
Speaker 1: I mean They're not going to let you just put
Speaker 1: a dead body on the in the water. You gotta
Speaker 1: get a paramit, you gotta so if it can happen,
Speaker 1: we can make that happen.
Speaker 2: Pretty much.
Speaker 3: That's how we approach every day at Frankie Campbell. Do
Speaker 3: you get a lot of unusual funerals? Are they a
Speaker 3: lot of them? Kind of cookie cutter? No, where Frankie
Speaker 3: Campbell is is anything but cookie cutter.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: What I mean is, do a lot of people want
Speaker 1: I like the casket here, I want the thing here,
Speaker 1: want the chart here?
Speaker 2: These are the you know, it'll be rolk of ages.
Speaker 1: It'll be amazing grace and we'll all go to the
Speaker 1: church yard and then it's ham savages and O'Malley's right.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So the first thing that we do is we always
Speaker 3: approach every funeral and we sit with the immediate members
Speaker 3: of the family. We make sure we put our pen
Speaker 3: and pencils down and just listen to them, get an
Speaker 3: understanding of what is important to them.
Speaker 2: How can we celebrate this person's life.
Speaker 3: Now, whether you are fifty or eighty five, whatever your age,
Speaker 3: you have a legacy and it's up to the family
Speaker 3: to share that information with us so we can create
Speaker 3: a service celebrate that person's life that's both personal and memorable.
Speaker 2: So nothing's cookie cutter. We approach everything fresh.
Speaker 3: So whether it's music or decor a specific casket or.
Speaker 2: Or the Viking boat, wherever it is, whatever it is.
Speaker 3: And maybe some and we have some families that have
Speaker 3: multiple space, multiple places for services. Maybe there is a
Speaker 3: service in New York, and then maybe it's another service
Speaker 3: that's in Glasgow where the disposition, final disposition will be.
Speaker 2: So that's when the body is put away.
Speaker 1: How do you protect yourself because death has such a
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's painful. You know it's painful because
Speaker 1: you're saying goodbye to people. Then you don't want to
Speaker 1: say goodbye now most of the time, and even when
Speaker 1: it's time, it still contains grief for the living obviously,
Speaker 1: and there are there will be certain days I'm sure
Speaker 1: that you've dealt with for you like this is you
Speaker 1: know someone who's too young, someone it was a tragic accident,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is, a youngster, I mean, something
Speaker 1: that is really hard.
Speaker 2: Is there a clutch.
Speaker 1: Mechanism that you can put in for yourself to protect
Speaker 1: yourself from that that pain or do you feel all
Speaker 1: of that pain?
Speaker 3: Craig every director that I know that's a good funeral director.
Speaker 3: As much as we want to shelter ourselves from these
Speaker 3: very emotional events and the loss of a child and
Speaker 3: untimely death of someone or maybe you know it was
Speaker 3: a couple that just celebrated their seventy fifth wedding at Verse,
Speaker 3: there are these special moments and it's up to us
Speaker 3: to be in the moment and to be with them,
Speaker 3: and nothing prepares you for that, but you hope that.
Speaker 3: I guess do you get better at it as you've
Speaker 3: been doing it longer? I think I think you do
Speaker 3: get better at it because we then are able to
Speaker 3: maybe talk a little bit more. When you're early on,
Speaker 3: you really don't know what to say to the family,
Speaker 3: you know, Is this the awkward moment where I should
Speaker 3: be giving someone a hug and embracing them and letting
Speaker 3: them know that it's okay to grieve or even to laugh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but we need to be there for people, and that
Speaker 3: is that's what's important.
Speaker 1: I remember that from my parents' services. They died within
Speaker 1: three years of each other, and I do remember at
Speaker 1: the funeral service, looking to the funeral director for guidance
Speaker 1: and how to be because I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: be and I figured it wasn't cognitive, but I guess
Speaker 1: the reaction was I'm looking like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: to be here? How should I be here? And you know,
Speaker 1: to his credit, he was very good to like, sit here,
Speaker 1: there is your dad there, this is how we're going
Speaker 1: to do it. We're going to you know, and then
Speaker 1: we're all going to walk over here and we're all
Speaker 1: going to do this. And somehow that structure was comforting,
Speaker 1: I think, because there is the great unknown that you're
Speaker 1: dealing with and literally in the room. So let me
Speaker 1: ask you about this, because we're all human, because we'll
Speaker 1: all die as you you know, you as a young
Speaker 1: man at your godfather's funeral home, right, you see dead
Speaker 1: bodies for the first time, I'm sure, and that's something
Speaker 1: that many of us still don't see throughout our entire lives.
Speaker 1: But you see that, and it will have an effect
Speaker 1: on how you view the world because everybody's experience does.
Speaker 1: Do you have opinions on life after death? Do you
Speaker 1: have opinions on what goes on afterwards? Have they changed
Speaker 1: from when you were sixteen and first doing it to
Speaker 1: where you are now, how does it look for you?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: I've had the pleasure of being around a lot a
Speaker 3: lot of clergy, and our conversations. I've been asked a
Speaker 3: lot of questions, and our conversations have been challenging sometimes, right,
Speaker 3: because clergy, you know, whether you're a priest, a pastor
Speaker 3: a rabbi, you know, they're the pillar in that religious
Speaker 3: community where they have their belief right, and sometimes these
Speaker 3: conversations challenge that belief as well. I do believe there
Speaker 3: is something greater, that there is something that is more
Speaker 3: powerful than just us here today, right, And whether it's
Speaker 3: a feeling.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a hope.
Speaker 3: Maybe we want to feel that that gives us this
Speaker 3: hope for an afterlife.
Speaker 2: But I can share a quick story with you.
Speaker 3: Years ago, a friend of mine came to visit me
Speaker 3: and we were sitting in the lobby of a funeral
Speaker 3: home and at one point we both looked to the
Speaker 3: same direction, her to the left and myself to the right.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the conversation she turned to me,
Speaker 3: she says, earlier, when you look to the right, what
Speaker 3: did you see? And I said, I kind of thought
Speaker 3: I saw somebody walking past the door, and she says,
Speaker 3: how would you feel if I told you I saw
Speaker 3: the same thing. So we looked at each other. I said,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? And she said that people
Speaker 3: transition from one state of life to another and they
Speaker 3: have to show themselves before they can fully transition to
Speaker 3: where they need to be. So I was surprised to
Speaker 3: hear that from her, but that now, so I was
Speaker 3: in my twenties when we had that conversation. It kind
Speaker 3: of drives things home a little bit. So I kind
Speaker 3: of hope that there's something great for us, you know,
Speaker 3: or we just complex organisms that you know. I have
Speaker 3: a you know, an acuity to do certain things and
Speaker 3: to build and to be a performer and do all
Speaker 3: of these things, and then we die and it's all gone.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it seems like a law getting dressed
Speaker 1: out for nothing. If we're that complex and interest and
Speaker 1: then it all just goes away, it feels like it
Speaker 1: feels like a shame. But I think that my personal
Speaker 1: belief is the and it waivers from day to day.
Speaker 1: But my personal belief is that I think that we've
Speaker 1: got time wrong. I think that's what it is. I
Speaker 1: think that we think time starts and moves forward in
Speaker 1: one direction all the time, and that's that's what happens.
Speaker 1: And I'm not entirely sure now I think that's what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: I think time is different.
Speaker 1: How how well, in the sense that everything exists all
Speaker 1: the time at the same time, but we travel through
Speaker 1: it in are conscious but it still exists. And what
Speaker 1: I mean by that there's a and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be I'm going to really bad at this, but the
Speaker 1: idea of traveling in astrophysics, I think it is as
Speaker 1: a guy called Professor Brian Cox, who did a wonderful
Speaker 1: documentary about it on British television, and he talks very
Speaker 1: eloquently about this, and he's a professor of physics at
Speaker 1: Oxford University, and I'm a vulgar lounge entertainer, so he's
Speaker 1: a better source for the information. But basically talking about
Speaker 1: the idea of that everything exists all the time, and
Speaker 1: that for you and your friends sitting in that funeral
Speaker 1: parlor forty years ago, thirty years ago, whenever it was
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, that's still there. But now your thinking
Speaker 1: is here and your being in the moment is here.
Speaker 1: But that's still there and was always there and will
Speaker 1: always be there, and the universe exists. Like that, maybe
Speaker 1: I need less coffee and no hashish ever in my life,
Speaker 1: but it's too late for any of these things to
Speaker 1: have happened.
Speaker 2: What about are you a religious? Man? Does it?
Speaker 3: I'd say that I'm religious, spiritual, spiritual, But you do you.
Speaker 2: Touch yourself to any particular and like, are you a Catholic?
Speaker 2: Are you? I'm Catholic? Right, But that's probably.
Speaker 1: More background as much as Anathon, right, it's background.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I do believe that we all have some type of
Speaker 3: religion that that we connect to. For me, you know,
Speaker 3: it's Catholicism. In my twenties, I went back to the
Speaker 3: church to sing in the choir because I felt that
Speaker 3: that was important to me at that time. And I
Speaker 3: hope that everybody has whatever it is for you know,
Speaker 3: each person, for you and for everyone that there is
Speaker 3: something that they have, and that's that religion for me
Speaker 3: is Catholicism.
Speaker 1: I Craig Ferguson will be on the road once again
Speaker 1: this fall, bringing the Fantasy Rascal to or two your region.
Speaker 1: For tickets and full list of tour dates, go to
Speaker 1: my website. The Craig ferguson show dot Com slash Tour,
Speaker 1: Come and see me live or don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not your father.
Speaker 1: What about the mechanics of mortuary preparation? Which is I mean,
Speaker 1: until today, I did not know that it was something
Speaker 1: that you had to go to.
Speaker 2: I mean, I obviously I imagine there.
Speaker 1: Was training involved, but I didn't realize that it was
Speaker 1: something you needed to a degree. And so obviously it's
Speaker 1: an involved and a complex subject.
Speaker 3: So Craig, you'd probably be surprised, obviously you were today
Speaker 3: to hear that you go to college to get a
Speaker 3: degree in mortuary science. Afterwards, you take your National board
Speaker 3: exam for any like any profession you need to take
Speaker 3: a board exam, right, and then we complete a year
Speaker 3: long residency, just as I got a doctorate that well, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, possibly yes, And then you take your state
Speaker 3: law exam in the state that you wish to practice
Speaker 3: like an attorney, right, and and then you you start
Speaker 3: your career in funeral service.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting to me because the question I want
Speaker 1: to ask you is that how complex is it is
Speaker 1: about the preparation of the remains?
Speaker 2: Is what does it consist of?
Speaker 3: I mean, the education could consists of anything that that
Speaker 3: is in and around funeral service. So and it's the
Speaker 3: basics though, right, Just like in any profession, you know,
Speaker 3: you can learn certain things how to do it. You know,
Speaker 3: you can go to trade school and learn how to
Speaker 3: cut wood, but you know you do need to get
Speaker 3: more advanced in your in your training and your apprenticeship
Speaker 3: to learn how to build a wall or build a house.
Speaker 3: So this gives us the basics on what are the basics.
Speaker 3: So the basics could be how to conduct a funeral.
Speaker 3: You know the components of a funeral.
Speaker 1: So it's an emotional training as well as a physical
Speaker 1: training course.
Speaker 3: You know the standard which a procession of cortege which
Speaker 3: you know who goes first, hierarchy and families, right, and
Speaker 3: you know where the pole bearers need to be. In
Speaker 3: some churches the casket will be parallel to the altar.
Speaker 3: In other churches it's perpendicular.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: When we're talking about services for families of the Jewish faith,
Speaker 3: you know those funerals happen as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: Then if you have you know.
Speaker 1: Ye, my people and the people right man, right, my
Speaker 1: mother was around for about two weeks, could be right,
Speaker 1: so and and then that that is, you know, several
Speaker 1: days of visitation.
Speaker 3: And I know that in some some communities, I think
Speaker 3: in in England and Scotland, even though there are funeral homes,
Speaker 3: they still have visitations in homes.
Speaker 2: They sometimes do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think mostly now, I mean, I think you
Speaker 1: can do it, like you say, but I think mostly
Speaker 1: now it is in is in funeral homes because it
Speaker 1: is I think, to do with the volition of of
Speaker 1: the mourner, so that you're not putting position where you're
Speaker 1: suddenly in the room with the deceased, and or particularly
Speaker 1: with kids. You so you can say would you like
Speaker 1: to see grandma? Would you not like to see grandma?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: I mean it's I was with my mother when she died,
Speaker 1: and then they asked me, you know when they said
Speaker 1: would you like to see her?
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, you were with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's gone and that's what's left. And I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was necessary. But everybody's different, you know, And
Speaker 1: I know my brother and my sisters went this here,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. It seems like it's a very
Speaker 1: personal thing. It seems to make you very empathetic. You
Speaker 1: seem to care very deeply about what people feel. Is
Speaker 1: that part of your training or is that who you are?
Speaker 3: No, it's who I am, you know, and that's you're
Speaker 3: trained to You're trained to complete tasks in any profession,
Speaker 3: but in funeral service you're trained to complete tasks and
Speaker 3: you know and prescribe methods or whether it's a policy
Speaker 3: or procedure, whatever we have to do, possibly with preparation
Speaker 3: or with logistics, working with churches and outside entities, and
Speaker 3: you know, transportation that that's that is just day to day.
Speaker 3: But really a good funeral director, you know, needs to
Speaker 3: connect with people, needs to connect with families and have
Speaker 3: the ability to be mindful and be present. So that's
Speaker 3: you can't teach that, you know. Have you ever been
Speaker 3: a funeral and been dealing with some money? So I
Speaker 3: really dislike this person intensely.
Speaker 1: Even although they're going through a terrible period in their
Speaker 1: life or a very difficult period in their life.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get away from her.
Speaker 3: I've been in situations that have been trying, and I
Speaker 3: may not always agree with the things that are happening
Speaker 3: around me, but you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I'm a professional and my focus is to do my
Speaker 3: very best for everyone. You know, I think that if
Speaker 3: I was ever put in a situation where I felt
Speaker 3: morally or ethically compromised, I would need to take a
Speaker 3: big pause and question whether or not this is something
Speaker 3: that I want to continue with. So you've never been
Speaker 3: in that situation, then I haven't. And part of it,
Speaker 3: I don't think is luck, Craig. I think it's you know,
Speaker 3: the way that we approach our services, the way that
Speaker 3: we approach everything that we kind of set a standard
Speaker 3: and we set the parameters and I think everybody kind
Speaker 3: of works within that so we don't let things get
Speaker 3: out of hand.
Speaker 1: What about if you get a situation where someone wants
Speaker 1: to have an open casket for the deceased, and perhaps
Speaker 1: it's been an accident where the results are you know,
Speaker 1: dramatic and difficult to look at. Is it part of
Speaker 1: a mortuary preparation to try and create you know, you know,
Speaker 1: to try and give the person a look which is
Speaker 1: not going to alarm the mourners.
Speaker 2: Is that part of it? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Our ability to you know, part of our preparation is embalming,
Speaker 3: and that is.
Speaker 2: Who isn't bombing? Quite sure what that is?
Speaker 3: Certainly it's a temporary preservation, so we can make sure
Speaker 3: that a family's loved one is in a state that
Speaker 3: is as appealing or as pleasant as possible. And in
Speaker 3: situations where someone dies of an extended illness or if
Speaker 3: it was a tragedy that was that compromised the person,
Speaker 3: we put a tremendous amount of effort and use all
Speaker 3: of our talents to make sure that a family can
Speaker 3: if they wanted to have an open casket visitation, if
Speaker 3: they wanted to even just have a private time together,
Speaker 3: and we can afford them that. And that is important
Speaker 3: more than you know, Craig, because I have had families
Speaker 3: that said, oh, you know, we don't want to see mom,
Speaker 3: but then a month later they say, was Mom in
Speaker 3: the casket? Or you know, I'm wondering, you know, did
Speaker 3: she have her dress on, or you know, did she
Speaker 3: have those rosary beats with her? And that's why it's
Speaker 3: so important to just even if it's just a half
Speaker 3: an hour together.
Speaker 1: People have to take photographs because now the phones are
Speaker 1: everywhere and people take It's like they don't trust their
Speaker 1: own memories anymore.
Speaker 2: So some people have to have a photograph of things.
Speaker 2: Do they photograph that people. I'm sure people do you know.
Speaker 3: One of the policies that we have for our staff
Speaker 3: at the funeral home is we're not allowed to use
Speaker 3: you know, our phones in oh obviously in those areas,
Speaker 3: but we.
Speaker 2: Can't control what a family member does.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure it happens, right because that's that's that's
Speaker 3: our society now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it seems so kind of I don't know.
Speaker 2: It does seem a little odd to me. So what's
Speaker 2: the what's the wildest one you've done? Have you ever
Speaker 2: done a funeral? Me? Though?
Speaker 1: I don't even know ifho We're going to start with us,
Speaker 1: where the hell are we going to get helicopters and
Speaker 1: three canfet cannons?
Speaker 2: Well, we've had some some quite unique. Uh, we've had
Speaker 2: unique funerals.
Speaker 3: We we work with private charter jet companies that help
Speaker 3: us with transfer tation.
Speaker 1: So if someone dies and they're rich and they die
Speaker 1: far away, they can get jetted.
Speaker 3: Home absolutely, okay, Yeah, and if and if need be,
Speaker 3: we provide you come home.
Speaker 2: And Spirit Airlines do they have a service to I.
Speaker 3: Don't know Spirit, but we do do private private aircraft
Speaker 3: AFT and there's also commercial aircraft.
Speaker 2: So I was going to say.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the way I feel like leg room
Speaker 1: at that point is not going to be an issue.
Speaker 1: And so if you're going to just like go home
Speaker 1: in the bugs you go over to the box, it's uh, well,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying is if my honey, if
Speaker 1: you're listening and I peg it overseas, don't splash out,
Speaker 1: keep the money and I'll come home, you know, coach or.
Speaker 2: Splash out and call me, said the jet.
Speaker 1: So what about the fact that socially, you know, the
Speaker 1: idea that you I mean, you're a very gregarious, upbeat man.
Speaker 2: I don't know you well, we just met, but you.
Speaker 1: Seem like a very gauged and cheerful individual. Best friends now, yeah,
Speaker 1: So what was it like socially, particularly for a young
Speaker 1: man like you know, at the time of your life
Speaker 1: when you're looking to maybe meet someone and get you know.
Speaker 2: What's it like beating a party?
Speaker 1: Go, well, I'm studying I mean mortuary science. I can
Speaker 1: make you look great, but only if you're you know, horizontal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it was, it really is.
Speaker 3: It's a conversation starter sometimes and it's a conversation ender.
Speaker 3: I remember one time friend of mine where we were
Speaker 3: at a club. It was actually in Stanford, Connecticut, and
Speaker 3: we were having a great time. We met a couple
Speaker 3: of people there and as soon as this one woman,
Speaker 3: you know, she found out that I was a funeral director,
Speaker 3: and that's where the conversation ended.
Speaker 1: Right, But I'm guessing at the same time, Look, I
Speaker 1: can introduce you to some emo girls just go crazy
Speaker 1: for this stuff and be like, oh my god, he's
Speaker 1: so great.
Speaker 2: Are you a family man? You have kids?
Speaker 3: Yep, I'm married. I have three children. So how did
Speaker 3: you meet your wife through a friend? I had a
Speaker 3: great friend, Lewis. He invited me and her to a
Speaker 3: New Year's Eve party. I got there early, like I
Speaker 3: did today. I got there early. I drank a bottle.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you something, by the way, about
Speaker 1: now that we're best friends, you're an undertaker.
Speaker 2: No one wants to see you.
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, Like, be late man, the
Speaker 1: last possible minute.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: So I get to this party early and there was
Speaker 3: a bottle of homemade wine there, which was absolutely tasty,
Speaker 3: and I drank this entire bottle of wine. I fall
Speaker 3: asleep on a chaise lounge and in walks my soon
Speaker 3: to be wife, Sandra, and turns to our friend Lewis
Speaker 3: and says, where's this guy you want me to meet?
Speaker 2: And there I was sleeping on the couch by Well.
Speaker 2: Now at this point you and me are still very similar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so what happens you? Yeah, I mean obviously
Speaker 1: you you too? You guys start going out together. Was
Speaker 1: she intrigued?
Speaker 2: Was she was? Did she know the business at all? Well,
Speaker 2: she knew who I was.
Speaker 3: I don't think she knew the business, but you know,
Speaker 3: she I guess she understood that I was a decent
Speaker 3: fellow and and that was really what was important.
Speaker 1: Really, it was important for me too. Did you like
Speaker 1: take her, you know, to look at the funeral home
Speaker 1: and stuff? Because I have this image of I'll tell
Speaker 1: you where this comes from, because it's not really from you.
Speaker 2: My wife when she was very young, she her best friend.
Speaker 2: When she was a.
Speaker 1: Little kid, the family were undertakers, so she when she
Speaker 1: was a little kid, they used to sneak in and
Speaker 1: look at the dead bodies that were in the you
Speaker 1: know Wayne, Yeah, and and I think it made her
Speaker 1: who she is today, and that is a.
Speaker 2: Very well rounded individual.
Speaker 1: So so was was there because there is there's this
Speaker 1: kind of silicious forbidden No, my goodness, what the henck?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Did that play into No, not at all, you know,
Speaker 3: and you can and you can tell through our conversation here,
Speaker 3: I will tap dance right along that that edge with
Speaker 3: the conversation, and I'll never I'll never pop to the
Speaker 3: other side.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3: You you have practiced in this, you I do so,
Speaker 3: you know, thirty years in funeral service, the you know,
Speaker 3: the only profession I've ever known. Uh And and I've
Speaker 3: had the opportunity to share so many important stories and
Speaker 3: have conversations with folks. And it's important that I feel
Speaker 3: comfortable about my profession so I can share it with
Speaker 3: you the right way.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So for my my friends, for my for my wife
Speaker 3: or my children, I've I've always they've always been part
Speaker 3: of me and.
Speaker 1: Work, and so it's and so it contains less Do
Speaker 1: you think for your family the idea of mortality can
Speaker 1: contains less fear?
Speaker 3: I would say so, yeah, yeah, I would say so,
Speaker 3: you know, but I think they also, I guess appreciate
Speaker 3: life a little bit more. And I can't tell you
Speaker 3: how many times I've been in the car on the
Speaker 3: phone with a family. I'm driving it and I know
Speaker 3: I'm going to have this conversation on the bluetooth, and
Speaker 3: I'm telling my children be quiet, you know, daddy's on
Speaker 3: a important phone call. Or I'm in the house running
Speaker 3: from room to room because the kids are crying and
Speaker 3: I just need to get to a quiet space so
Speaker 3: I can speak to a family.
Speaker 2: And those are things not just that I do.
Speaker 3: Every funeral director goes through that that has a family,
Speaker 3: So they're speaking to someone who's just lost their loved one,
Speaker 3: and you need to afford them that opportunity. You need
Speaker 3: to be present for them, and you need to put
Speaker 3: your family on hold, you know, whether it's fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: or an hour.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating because in our conversation, clearly what you are
Speaker 1: is a very empathetic, very sympathetic, very caring human being.
Speaker 2: And yet the stereotype of.
Speaker 1: An undertaker is more kind of like the Victorian vision
Speaker 1: of death, you know, the man in the black stovepipe.
Speaker 2: Hat that it is your time, sorry, I'm here early. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm glad that you mentioned that so well.
Speaker 3: In the UK you have the funeral directors, they still
Speaker 3: wear the morning seat.
Speaker 2: They still do.
Speaker 3: So we still wear we wear a morning suit but
Speaker 3: with a contemporary jacket no tails. At Frankie Campbell, our
Speaker 3: directors wear that suit. And we still believe in some
Speaker 3: of the things that that is done in the UK,
Speaker 3: like paging way. So if you ever see the funeral
Speaker 3: directors walks in front of the herd, that's paging way
Speaker 3: and that's we do that today. Right. So when we
Speaker 3: have a funeral and we're leaving from Frankie Campbell that
Speaker 3: we're coming on to Madison Avenue, you'll see that there
Speaker 3: is a funeral director walking first by himself and then
Speaker 3: here comes the casket being shoulded by our casket bearers
Speaker 3: and the family follows behind it, you know.
Speaker 2: So and it's New York, so people are leaning on
Speaker 2: their hornge and guess what.
Speaker 3: We shut the street down. We shut the sidewalk down
Speaker 3: for everyone good. And that's important.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I was at my father's funeral, which is one
Speaker 1: of the saddest days of my life, and that this
Speaker 1: was in Glasgow. Yeah, in Scotland. It is about gosh,
Speaker 1: it's a wild bag now and maybe seventeen years ago.
Speaker 1: So I was at my father's funeral and when we
Speaker 1: left the church, we go to some other place I
Speaker 1: can't remember us for our services. I guess it would
Speaker 1: be the crematorium or something. There was a big area
Speaker 1: and my father's casket was piped in by a bagpipe
Speaker 1: who was maybe the worst bagpaper I've ever heard my life.
Speaker 2: And my brother and I are pole bearers, and.
Speaker 1: We I can feel him, you know, as we're walking
Speaker 1: down with my dad on our shoulders, and I can
Speaker 1: feel him starting to laugh. He's getting we're you know,
Speaker 1: we're cut out, but he's giggling. I can feel his
Speaker 1: shoulder going, and then of course I started. And we're
Speaker 1: walking in and all the pole bearers who all loved
Speaker 1: this man and the casket are just weeping with laughter
Speaker 1: and trying to hold it. And of course everybody else
Speaker 1: there news what we're laughing at, and this piper is
Speaker 1: carrying on murdering, amazing grace murdering it.
Speaker 2: It lent something to the experience.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I heard my dad giggle a couple
Speaker 1: of times as well. It has there been moments where
Speaker 1: you so I kind of contain my laughter. I'm going
Speaker 1: to have to excuse myself for something.
Speaker 3: And that it happens, and the family's laughing right, right.
Speaker 3: So there are times, whether it's at the funeral home,
Speaker 3: at the church, at the cemetery, where the family makes
Speaker 3: a joke and you want to laugh along with them,
Speaker 3: and sometimes you try to fight it back because you
Speaker 3: need to be professional, and that happens.
Speaker 2: But along the way we learn little things.
Speaker 3: To even provide a little levity, and so I'll share
Speaker 3: one with you. You know, at the cemetery, sometimes the
Speaker 3: family will turn to us and say, you know, please
Speaker 3: invite every back to everyone, back to you know, six thirty,
Speaker 3: you know, Madison Avenue, right, And you know I may
Speaker 3: turn around and say everyone's invited back to three sixty
Speaker 3: Madison Avenue, and the family will turn around. So no,
Speaker 3: six thirty Madison Avenue. I'll say, please, don't go to
Speaker 3: three sixty. They're not going to be ready for you.
Speaker 3: It'll be no food. You have to So you got
Speaker 3: to you got to know when to, you know, these
Speaker 3: little tips and tricks. Yeah, you have to the days
Speaker 3: of being this stoic funeral director that's unapproachable with a
Speaker 3: gray face, those days are gone.
Speaker 2: You know. Families are changing, communities are changing.
Speaker 3: And we need to be responsive to that, you know,
Speaker 3: and to understand that this isn't about you know, what
Speaker 3: it was. We need to be what's happening now, and
Speaker 3: that that's about the celebrational life.
Speaker 2: That what I mean you talk about community.
Speaker 1: These are changing and people, you know America, particularly in
Speaker 1: New York, you know. I mean, it's just wave after
Speaker 1: wave of new culture coming in and has always been
Speaker 1: that way. And so there are different ways of dealing
Speaker 1: with the dead and in different cultures.
Speaker 2: Do you do non Christian or Judeo berus? Do you do?
Speaker 1: Muslim burials? Do you do I don't know. I can't
Speaker 1: think of other ones. I mean Shinto, I mean, what
Speaker 1: do you do?
Speaker 2: We serve every culture, every race, and.
Speaker 1: Do you have to bring in people for example, if
Speaker 1: you're doing it like a Japanese you know, do you
Speaker 1: have to bring in guys that you know can deal
Speaker 1: with that, right?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: If we're working with with a Buddhist family, right, if
Speaker 3: we need to bring in a Buddhist monk or whatever
Speaker 3: it may be, we we identify all of the very
Speaker 3: best resources for every family.
Speaker 1: All right, So you pull it together and you and
Speaker 1: you make it happen based on the faith of the
Speaker 1: correct the families.
Speaker 2: Has there ever been a point where you've thought, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think we can do this one, you know.
Speaker 1: Like if like if someone says, you know, if it's
Speaker 1: a Satanist or something, you.
Speaker 3: Know, well we have we haven't got that far yet. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so I don't think that society has crumbled
Speaker 3: that far. That faith is touching, you know, that that
Speaker 3: that we we have, we have that type of services happening.
Speaker 3: But no matter what we do, we do have to
Speaker 3: base uh, a service around the person. And so if
Speaker 3: it's if it's religious, if it's a ritual, maybe the
Speaker 3: family is not religious at all, but they want to
Speaker 3: create something that's memorable. Maybe it's you know, maybe it's
Speaker 3: around it's around music, you know, maybe.
Speaker 1: It's it seems to play a huge part, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's you know what.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't know this, but I grew up playing in
Speaker 3: a bagpipe band. No, I wish you to have this
Speaker 3: guy you to be He would have been horrible.
Speaker 2: So my dad was.
Speaker 3: He was six foot four, He looked like he came
Speaker 3: off of the doer's bottle familiar with.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, playing.
Speaker 3: The bagpipe band with my dad, And so if music
Speaker 3: is important. And the bagpipes, you know, is one of
Speaker 3: those instruments. You know, it's either good to bring you
Speaker 3: to tears or it's going to make your blood boil.
Speaker 2: And get out of my way.
Speaker 3: If the bagpipes are playing and I need to get
Speaker 3: something done, you know it's a call, right. But music
Speaker 3: is important, and whether that is live music, whether it's
Speaker 3: music that's being played in the funeral home. Someone loved Elvis,
Speaker 3: they love the Beatles, whatever it is that is important,
Speaker 3: and you have to listen. I mentioned about being present.
Speaker 3: We were meeting with a family once and there's a
Speaker 3: trumpet player, last name is Batti, and family mentioned how
Speaker 3: much they love to listen to this gentleman played trumpet
Speaker 3: and I left the arrangement office ahead of the other
Speaker 3: director and I went to our system and I put
Speaker 3: this trumpet music on. And as she walked into the lobby,
Speaker 3: she looked over at me and she pointed, she says,
Speaker 3: you're special. Oh that's nice, But that's what we try
Speaker 3: to have, not just for me, but for everybody.
Speaker 2: I think you get a lot of joy out of this.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is for I find intriguing that it's
Speaker 1: not just the satisfaction of a job well done. There
Speaker 1: is a sense of uplift in what you do. Because
Speaker 1: I are you frightened of death?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: Now I am like, I'm frightened, for I would be.
Speaker 3: I'd be scared to die now, only because there's a
Speaker 3: lot that I you have kids. I have kids, and
Speaker 3: there's a lot that I still want to do and
Speaker 3: want to accomplish. But I think at some point in
Speaker 3: my life, I think I would embrace it. I hope
Speaker 3: that if I get to this final hour where I
Speaker 3: can turn to my family and friends and say I
Speaker 3: have lived a magnificent life and it's so, you're gonna
Speaker 3: be sad, but you know, I'm I hope I'm right
Speaker 3: be sad, but you know, and I want you also
Speaker 3: to be happy about all the things that we have
Speaker 3: done together and the celebrations that we've had, and maybe listen,
Speaker 3: who agrees with everything that your family does.
Speaker 2: We've we've had some more arguments too, right, Yeah, of course,
Speaker 2: But that is scared now.
Speaker 3: But I hope that I can find peace in the
Speaker 3: future where I can share this legacy and people can
Speaker 3: celebrate my life.
Speaker 1: So we discussed you very briefly. We discussed your your Catholic.
Speaker 1: You're and that's your faith. And then the Catholic faith
Speaker 1: as I understand it, which is reasonably well. I think
Speaker 1: there is a continuation of consciousness after death. I personally
Speaker 1: have my doubts about that. What about you, It doesn't
Speaker 1: make you not a Catholic.
Speaker 3: But now doubt and you're right and listen through doubt,
Speaker 3: through question, you know, that's that's how you reach these
Speaker 3: higher levels and whatever.
Speaker 2: Faith without doubt is not faith, it's something else.
Speaker 1: If you I I really believe that if you don't
Speaker 1: have doubt, then how can you possibly have faith? You must.
Speaker 1: It is an essential component. It's like it's like the
Speaker 1: B and A B L T. You gotta have it
Speaker 1: or it's not. What you say is yeah.
Speaker 3: So I do believe that there is something after I
Speaker 3: do believe that that we we we move into a
Speaker 3: different level.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And and that's about that that afterlife. Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: the consciousness. Does it happen? Is it is it? Is
Speaker 3: it seamless? Is it is it interrupted? Does it does
Speaker 3: it stop? Is it in a different form? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, who knows. Uh.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that say.
Speaker 1: Are you comfortable not knowing. Yeah, I see that. I
Speaker 1: think that's very evolved ession. I could say I am
Speaker 1: comfortable without not knowing.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't need to know how the hot
Speaker 3: dog's made, right, right, And I'm comfortable not knowing that.
Speaker 1: Right, I got it, I got it. What about what
Speaker 1: frightens you?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 1: What kind of a death? I mean, I presume you
Speaker 1: haven't been around, or maybe you have. I don't know
Speaker 1: the actual moment of death. For many people, you usually
Speaker 1: your work begins after that, right. I had a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago I had was my brother in law. Actually,
Speaker 1: you know, my hands were on him when he passed
Speaker 1: away with my sister in law, and it was very emotional,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad I was there for him.
Speaker 2: I'm glad I was there. You guys clothes for her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd say we were close, you know, And and
Speaker 3: it's actually brought me closer to my sister in law,
Speaker 3: you know. From that that point, I think we have
Speaker 3: so much different relationship now.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting because I feel that obviously it
Speaker 1: has an emotional impact on you, and I hate to
Speaker 1: see anyone uncomfortable or or upset. But the idea that
Speaker 1: someone you care about passing still up says you. I
Speaker 1: think is a huge testament to your humanity, given the
Speaker 1: fact the field in which you work and I have
Speaker 1: made a complete one eighty on on what I think
Speaker 1: about because I had I think I had a rather
Speaker 1: grizzly fascination with what you do for a living and
Speaker 1: I just haven't spent some time in your company. Is
Speaker 1: very interesting because it you demystify it a little bit.
Speaker 1: You don't take any of the pain away, but you've
Speaker 1: demystified it a little bit.
Speaker 2: Is that how it is for you?
Speaker 3: I guess that that is what I want it to
Speaker 3: be for you. Yeah, that's what I wanted to be.
Speaker 3: I want it to be for everyone that we can
Speaker 3: that I can and funeral directors can share what we
Speaker 3: do and we can be honest and let people into,
Speaker 3: you know, our circle and to help people, help people,
Speaker 3: you know, come to grips or maybe they need to
Speaker 3: realize that funeral service is something that is very important
Speaker 3: in today's society. You know, if we were sitting here
Speaker 3: years ago, we wouldn't have a plastic cup or a
Speaker 3: paper cup in front of us. It'd be you know,
Speaker 3: a china or glass, right right. You know, today everything
Speaker 3: is very disposable. We need to guard ourselves when it
Speaker 3: comes to funeral service from it being just about the disposition.
Speaker 3: We have to think about the service itself. We need
Speaker 3: to celebrate that person's life and you need to That's.
Speaker 1: One thing that Catholics really do well. I mean you
Speaker 1: got to give them that. The I mean, you guys
Speaker 1: go at it. There's like all sorts of prayers and
Speaker 1: ups and downs and join and ends and here and
Speaker 1: there and smoke going on, lights flashing.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, man. But the thing is, I have.
Speaker 1: Noticed if you go to a funeral and it's conducted
Speaker 1: for me, if it's conducted with palm and theater, there
Speaker 1: is some kind of weird closure at the end of it.
Speaker 1: The grieving process is facilitated by that. I think I
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. Yeah, you know the craig.
Speaker 3: So if you know the way that I can I
Speaker 3: can kind of couch this for you is that you know,
Speaker 3: there's always two people sitting in the back of the church, right,
Speaker 3: and the two people are either saying to each other
Speaker 3: when I go, don't do this for me, I don't
Speaker 3: want any of this. That means you're doing something wrong.
Speaker 3: But if those two people are sitting in the back
Speaker 3: of the church or the funeral home and one buddy
Speaker 3: nudges them and says, you better do this for me.
Speaker 3: I want this right here, then you know you're doing
Speaker 3: something right. You're striking this cord and and you're you're
Speaker 3: saying to people, hey, listen, it's okay.
Speaker 2: You know, play a c DC. You know at my funeral.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to have, you know, a
Speaker 3: bunch of I don't want to have a bunch of
Speaker 3: you know, cut flowers.
Speaker 2: Bring in some trees for me, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: do something.
Speaker 1: You're going to have the trees because I know you
Speaker 1: got the smoke. Absolutely you're going to have the trees.
Speaker 1: And you have a high Catholic Mass. So we got
Speaker 1: we got the priest there, we got all the we
Speaker 1: have in the choir.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you'll have the choir, I think okay.
Speaker 3: And we're definitely not having that bagpiper from Glasgow. You
Speaker 3: know we'll get We'll get a We're going to get
Speaker 3: a good piper from the f d N.
Speaker 1: Why I gets from New York where they can play
Speaker 1: the thing the like to be fair. He was the
Speaker 1: only bad backpack compared in Scotland.
Speaker 3: But so he definitely was not at the at the
Speaker 3: Edinburgh Military tattoo.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: This guy, I don't know if he I think that
Speaker 1: it was his first day. I tell you one thing
Speaker 1: I did see you you can tell me if you
Speaker 1: think this is wrong or no. I thought it was
Speaker 1: very bleak. So gas station in Scotland about I don't
Speaker 1: know a year ago or something. I was there and
Speaker 1: I was getting gas and hearst pulled in the to
Speaker 1: get gas.
Speaker 2: No, they need gas like every other vehicle. I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there was a casket in it and the
Speaker 1: guy gets out, the guy who's driving it. He goes out,
Speaker 1: and he goes in the gas station. Nothing all we
Speaker 1: go like GM or something and and and then came
Speaker 1: back out and he gets in the guy and he
Speaker 1: drives away with I don't know if there's anyone in
Speaker 1: the casket. By he got a figure there.
Speaker 3: Was well, you know, you know, we always try to
Speaker 3: win for fur. There's when there's long distance funerals or
Speaker 3: long distance maybe it was that was that, you know,
Speaker 3: there's and you caught him probably at the one time right, right,
Speaker 3: And it's limited the amount of time that you have
Speaker 3: to bring a hearson to a gas station, but usually
Speaker 3: it's during a long distance transportation. You really have no choice, right,
Speaker 3: and that I have to believe that that's the reason
Speaker 3: why he did that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I think that it's touching and
Speaker 1: good that you. I think it was probably just a
Speaker 1: guy going, no, I need petrol, I need petrol, you
Speaker 1: get you know. Never mind know McPherson wed they may
Speaker 1: he was never that petrol station.
Speaker 2: That gives wake there you go. But it's been an
Speaker 2: absolute joy talking to you.
Speaker 1: I wish you well, Uh, I wish you success, and
Speaker 1: I feel that your business is is it really genuinely
Speaker 1: the only recession proof business?
Speaker 2: Uh, it may be one of them. I don't know
Speaker 2: if there's any other ones.
Speaker 4: Pizza making as maybe discount haircuts, yeah, because I figured
Speaker 4: like if you get poorer, you still need a haircut,
Speaker 4: you get you'll make a little more.
Speaker 1: Money you get a haircut, you know, so maybe discount
Speaker 1: haircuts undertakers and pizza. It's a fascinating world that that
Speaker 1: you inhabit, and I I'm really.
Speaker 2: Touched by our conversation. You're wonderful, keep going, Thank you,
Speaker 2: thanks great