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Speaker 1: Ah beaute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military

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Speaker 1: News and straight Talk with the Guys and the Community

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Speaker 1: Softwrep Radio on Time on Target. This show is brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Create Club Club Foremen by men of Gear,

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Speaker 1: handpicked by Special Operations military veterans. There's a great Club

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Speaker 1: before we get into anything, I feel like I have

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Speaker 1: to just disclaimer that we have like the natural New

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Speaker 1: York sound in the background again, because it's warm here

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Speaker 1: and this room just gets very stuffy if I don't

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Speaker 1: have the windows open. So your ambulance is here. Church

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Speaker 1: Bell is all types of beautiful day part of the bey. Honest,

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Speaker 1: it is beautiful here in New York City with Ken

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Speaker 1: Steiger in studio UM. Before we get into Ken's background.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to say, great, um response to the

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Speaker 1: Michael Aams episode that we did the other day, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's still those people. Even saw people on Twitter saying

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Speaker 1: to you, there's one guy was like, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: you've been duped by this guy, Jack. But I feel

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Speaker 1: like those people didn't listen to the podcast yet because

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Speaker 1: everything he says he really backs up with accounts, with

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Speaker 1: the amount of interviewing that he did. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's really much you could disprove from that interview. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's okay to question it or refute it,

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Speaker 1: but um, it's a question of what are you refuting.

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Speaker 1: What's specifically what claims are not true? And I didn't

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Speaker 1: write the book. The book is a book called American

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Speaker 1: Cipher written about bo Bergdahl, And um, I didn't write

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Speaker 1: the books, so I can't tell you, you know, ad,

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Speaker 1: But I'd recommend people read it for themselves and look

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Speaker 1: at the end notes and look at the source thing

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Speaker 1: and make up their minds. Yeah. I mean, I even

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Speaker 1: saw on the Software Radio Facebook page that the first

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Speaker 1: response to the article was from Boberg starting not from

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Speaker 1: bo Park at all, from Matt vier Kent, who was there,

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Speaker 1: and he just wrote bullshit, And Michael responded to him

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Speaker 1: and he was like, Hey, I would have loved to

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Speaker 1: have interviewed you. What in this interview, you know, was

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Speaker 1: I inaccurate about And I didn't see a response from

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Speaker 1: that yet. But I feel like for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not speaking on Matt's bad for anybody else,

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Speaker 1: but it is somewhat I think of an emotional response.

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Speaker 1: It's a very emotional subject for people. Yeah, that especially

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Speaker 1: if you were in that unit and you guys got

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Speaker 1: punished for this guy walking off basse, you are going

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Speaker 1: to have some emotion to that, and you are going

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Speaker 1: to be attached to Yeah, this guy's a trader. I'd

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Speaker 1: be piste, there's no question. Yeah. So it's it's completely understandable.

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Speaker 1: But listen back to that episode, because I I thought

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Speaker 1: Michael did a great job of just getting into the

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Speaker 1: facts of what went down, and I just didn't hear

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Speaker 1: anything that was refutable. So it's I don't buy into

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Speaker 1: that either of us were duped by anybody, Uh, I think,

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Speaker 1: And and I mean, if so, what was the reason

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Speaker 1: for him writing this book. He's certainly not gonna get

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Speaker 1: rich quick writing a book that the media kind of

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Speaker 1: refuses to have him on because he's shooting down the

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Speaker 1: narrative of both the liberal and conservative established. I can

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Speaker 1: tell you for sure, you don't get rich quick by

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Speaker 1: writing books like that and upsetting people. Yeah, well with that.

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Speaker 1: In studio with us is a guy with a very

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Speaker 1: unique background, Kenneth Steiger, former FBI special agent. And I

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Speaker 1: was actually thinking and saying it Ken when he walked in.

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Speaker 1: It's really rare we get someone with his background. We've

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Speaker 1: had John Gilman years ago, who did some work with

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Speaker 1: the FBI. I think that's the only guest we've had

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Speaker 1: on with a background and the FBI. You on the

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Speaker 1: other end, and been in the FBI for decades. And

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Speaker 1: before we get into your background as a special agent,

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Speaker 1: the way you were referred to us was our friend C. J. Ramon,

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Speaker 1: So I figured you would get into your background with Chris,

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Speaker 1: who we were both saying as just an are and

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Speaker 1: great guy and major talent. Here's a wonderful guy. Um

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Speaker 1: it was kind of funny. I Um. I was out

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Speaker 1: in Babylon and Um, I was actually just having dinner

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Speaker 1: with my son and was standing at the bar and

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Speaker 1: having a drink, just finished the night and comes to

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Speaker 1: Slady and started talking to her and she goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: my brothers C. J. Ramon from the Ramons. I said,

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Speaker 1: get out of here, you know, come on, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought it was a bunch of bs

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Speaker 1: sort of. And what happened was we started talking and

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Speaker 1: then we started dating, and then years later we got married.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it developed a great relationship with Chris.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what a great talent, what a great guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was in the Marines and the whole

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Speaker 1: story how he got into the Ramons is a great,

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Speaker 1: great story and really very unique, right. And um, I've

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Speaker 1: been there when he's been putting his songs together and

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Speaker 1: you know, getting the music over to his bandmates, and

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Speaker 1: how he was recording in a garage band and to

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Speaker 1: see his creativity and his knowledge of a lot of

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Speaker 1: subjects and he's just a great guy. And and uh

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Speaker 1: I missed him. Moved out to California, out in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: but we used to see him all the time. I

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Speaker 1: great father, you know, took care of his his kids.

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Speaker 1: His uh son Liam is autistic and to see that

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Speaker 1: kid blossom and the intelligence he has and you know

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Speaker 1: he's making a life for himself out in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a great success story. You gotta tell

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Speaker 1: the Andrew Wilcos story though that you're telling, okay that

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Speaker 1: this is kind of funny. I I listened to Andrew

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Speaker 1: Wilcow all the time, you know, when I'm in the

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Speaker 1: car and you know, those hours, and it's one day

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Speaker 1: he sees talking and he was, I really like punk rock,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really enjoyed that. And he goes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I saw the Ramons at Jones Beach and he goes,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. So he said what at the

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Speaker 1: end of the contract, went up to him and I

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Speaker 1: got them to autograph my my tickets and he said,

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Speaker 1: I got C. J. Ramone to autograph it. You know,

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Speaker 1: what a great guy. So I'm sitting in there and said,

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Speaker 1: you know what this would be, This would be funny.

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Speaker 1: So I dialed up from my car and I call

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Speaker 1: it and I don't know why it went through. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's his lines are always packed and everything else.

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Speaker 1: At the first ring, it goes right through, and the

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Speaker 1: producer answers, what would you like to tell Andrew? I said, well,

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Speaker 1: tell Andrew, I'm married to c. J. Ramone's sister. He goes,

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Speaker 1: hold on right away. It was its possibly could be

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Speaker 1: I I just don't remember. But uh, next thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: Andrew gets on the on the radio at the turn

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Speaker 1: my radio down. He goes, so, you're married to c. J.

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Speaker 1: Ramone's sister said, yeah, I said, what a great guy.

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Speaker 1: I said, what you don't really know is you know

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Speaker 1: that he was in the Marines and he's played for

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Speaker 1: the Remon with the Ramons for over eight years. He

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Speaker 1: tours all over the world. But really he's a conservative guy.

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Speaker 1: He goes, what, I can't believe that. I said, it's true.

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Speaker 1: I said, he has you know, he was brought up

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Speaker 1: to respect the flag. You know, he's a he's a patriot,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he served as time, you know, served time,

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Speaker 1: and he's a great guy. And he goes, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'd really like to interview him, you know, can you

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Speaker 1: do me a favorite? Just hold on and we'll get

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Speaker 1: your information and stuff. So what happened was they put

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Speaker 1: me on hold. All of a sudden, we lost the call,

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Speaker 1: and then I called back a couple of times and

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Speaker 1: finally got through and the producers to thank god he

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Speaker 1: called that. I thought we're gonna lose you forever. So

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Speaker 1: what happened was I hooked him up with C. J.

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Speaker 1: Ramone Chris Ward, and um uh. They made a date

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Speaker 1: for him to go into Andrew's studio. So Chris calls

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Speaker 1: me up and he says, hey, I'm going tonight to

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Speaker 1: see Andrew Will coolly interviewed and we talked about Liam

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Speaker 1: and my music and all that stuff. He goes, he's

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Speaker 1: gonna have a car picked me up, come on with me.

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Speaker 1: I said, sure, So I went to his house and

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Speaker 1: sure enough, there was the limit of there we go in.

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Speaker 1: So he went to the studio. I met Will Andrew

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Speaker 1: Will cow with a great gentleman. He is and uh.

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Speaker 1: I was walking around the studio and that's and that's

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Speaker 1: how he's awesome. And he said to view Chris several times,

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Speaker 1: you know about music conservatism, and you know, you know

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Speaker 1: these rock and rollers actually being conservative. And I think

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Speaker 1: he's got a few more guys that came in. You

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Speaker 1: know a lot of these guys don't want to come forth. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they they're afraid of hurting their career in the closet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But some of them. We've had on him,

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Speaker 1: We've had had on philba Bonti from All That Remains,

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Speaker 1: also a former marine UM and he became a friend

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Speaker 1: of Aaron Lewis, which when he found out Aaron Lewis

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Speaker 1: from stand was a fan of his. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's one of those like the rest is

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Speaker 1: History stories. I know Chris from that gig and then

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Speaker 1: coming over here, he's kind of come along to what

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Speaker 1: we do and he is an all around great guy.

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Speaker 1: And I did get to meet his son, who uh,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, especially with this stuff

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Speaker 1: in the media out there and the stereotypes, don't really

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Speaker 1: understand the spectrum of people who have autism because, as

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Speaker 1: you said, his son is a brilliant guy and he's

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Speaker 1: genualy knowledgeable about a lot of subjects. He absolutely is.

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Speaker 1: I mean he would come over our house and he

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Speaker 1: would start talking about um, you know, the Greek civilization

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Speaker 1: and then just go through all the statistics. It was phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: And then you know he's actually written a few books

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Speaker 1: and has been produced by UM, produced by Amazon, and

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Speaker 1: he's he was working at a m a grocery store

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Speaker 1: out east and he was actually sitting there doing autographed

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Speaker 1: in his books. So here's a he's a young man

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Speaker 1: that has autism, actually has written books. He's writing more

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Speaker 1: stories now. He's really He gets on my computer, gets

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Speaker 1: on garage band, he put he puts together sounds that

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Speaker 1: are just phenomenal. I'm not into wrapping stuff, but he was.

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Speaker 1: He was doing that and just one take, it was phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: The brain that this kid has, he's really very, very bright.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, there's different types of autism, and it's

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Speaker 1: incredible to see, like these people can do things that

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Speaker 1: I could never do. No way, Yeah, there's no way.

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Speaker 1: And um I read an article once about how there's

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Speaker 1: certain types of autism that the people who haven't really

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Speaker 1: thrive in jobs like computer programs, and they can, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and just do some incredible things. Really, we really do.

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Speaker 1: And he's a great young man. And you know, you

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Speaker 1: can see how he's blossomed through the years. You know,

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Speaker 1: he he was non verbal for quite a while, he

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Speaker 1: couldn't even speak, and to see the progression and to

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Speaker 1: see what he's grown into. And he's really a good

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Speaker 1: young man and he's he's making a life for himself

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Speaker 1: out in San Francisco, doing very well, um, so getting

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Speaker 1: into your background of course here, Uh, I don't know

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Speaker 1: where to begin because you've been you've been involved in

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Speaker 1: so many things. For example, you've been assigned to top

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Speaker 1: tier organized crime investigation, is the case age for the

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Speaker 1: Coombo crime family. And then as we were speaking on

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Speaker 1: the phone, as I book this, you were involved in

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Speaker 1: taking down Bernie made Off. Yes, So I mean where

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Speaker 1: to begin? Where's let's begin, because I want to hear

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Speaker 1: like some old school g Man stories from when you

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Speaker 1: first joined the bureau, and I bet it was very

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Speaker 1: different back then. It was a totally different world. You know,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have the technology that they have now, and

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Speaker 1: everything that we did was you had to go wait

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Speaker 1: miles out of the way just to go a few

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Speaker 1: inches forward. And that's really exactly how it was all

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Speaker 1: the time, you know. So when I first came in

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Speaker 1: with the organized crime back in the eighties was the

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Speaker 1: number one investigated priority of the U. S. Government Department

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Speaker 1: of Justice. So we had a task force with New

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Speaker 1: York City Police Department, local police departments in the FBI,

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Speaker 1: and we put a full court press on on the

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Speaker 1: families and uh, when happening crime families all five families,

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Speaker 1: And what happened was Joe Banano wrote a book, Yes

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Speaker 1: has been your on your honor? Are an honorable man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's it. So he started talking about the commission,

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Speaker 1: that that is a commission that they ruled. Body was like,

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Speaker 1: you don't do that. So what happened was Rudy Giuliani

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Speaker 1: reads the book, he goes, let's go after the commission,

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Speaker 1: and that was the whole gist of what they did.

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Speaker 1: We had each squad, we had five organized crime squads,

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Speaker 1: all in New York. We had them up in Westchester,

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Speaker 1: Long Island, and UM in New York, and each squad

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Speaker 1: was in charge of investigating each organized crime family. And

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Speaker 1: I was assigned to the Colombo family. We had UM

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Speaker 1: a great supervisor, Damon Taylor. The man was a genius,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately passed away, but he he was steps ahead of

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Speaker 1: where we wanted to go when he wanted to go

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Speaker 1: after and they had all kinds of wiretaps. My first

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Speaker 1: year and a half, almost two years, all I did

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Speaker 1: was sit on wire taps, phone taps, you know, UM,

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Speaker 1: restaurant bugs and things like that. So we I was

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Speaker 1: in the case as I was just one of the

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Speaker 1: guys that you know, did surveillances and you know supported

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Speaker 1: the major case is so Um. After a couple of

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Speaker 1: years of the investigations, because these cases take a long time,

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Speaker 1: we ended up arresting um um agatting warrants actually for

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Speaker 1: Carmine Persico, Dominic Montmorano and Jerry Langella. That's uh. Jerry

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Speaker 1: Langella was a consigliari um. Carmine Persco was the boss

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Speaker 1: of the family and Dominic Montano was the under boss

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Speaker 1: and we had a restaurants. They arrested all the commission,

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Speaker 1: all the members of the commission, and these three took off.

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Speaker 1: They were in the win. We couldn't find them. They

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Speaker 1: were fugitives. So after a few weeks, in a month

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Speaker 1: or so went by, they made Carmine Persco a top

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Speaker 1: ten fugitive and a very good friend of mine, Ken

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Speaker 1: Brown had the case to go and arrest him. I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you what he had to write daily reports

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Speaker 1: down to headquarters. This is how things have changed. Daily

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Speaker 1: reports and and uh send telegraph telegraphs down to headquarters.

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Speaker 1: What did you do today? What did you do for

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Speaker 1: the week? And they wanted everything accounted for, every minute

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Speaker 1: of his time and We were out all over the place.

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Speaker 1: We went to every social club you could find, and

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Speaker 1: that social up in there. They don't like that too much.

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Speaker 1: They don't want you in that place. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we did. We shook the trees and everything else. And

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Speaker 1: this is a very unique story. There was a fellow

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Speaker 1: I could tell his name because he was in the

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Speaker 1: Witness Security program and he was testifying everything he had.

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Speaker 1: Carmine Persico just disappear. We couldn't find him, and there

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Speaker 1: were reports he was in South America, you know, out

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Speaker 1: west and all this other kind of stuff. But he

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Speaker 1: had all these We had a lot of informants out there.

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Speaker 1: There was a fellow that calls up the office in

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Speaker 1: New York and he says, I know where Carmine Persco is.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to this special agent well the

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Speaker 1: special agents not in New York. And said, okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: try to get him to you. Didn't work. He called

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Speaker 1: back again. I think he called like four or five times.

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Speaker 1: Finally the found out that the agent that he wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to was an s A c out in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Division. He had going up to the ranks.

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Speaker 1: This fellow was an informant way back back in the day,

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Speaker 1: and he was a brother in law of Carmine Persico. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now the funny story, well, the unique story of it

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Speaker 1: is he was married to his Carmine Persicos sister and

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Speaker 1: he had a girlfriend from England, and he was stealing

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Speaker 1: money from Carmine Persico. That was Carmine was going to

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Speaker 1: use just to escape. It was stuck in a roof

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Speaker 1: and the ceiling of the attic, and he was stealing

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Speaker 1: cash and spending it. He goes and Carmine was planning

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Speaker 1: to flee, so he knew it was only a matter

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Speaker 1: of time before he's going to see that money he's missing,

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Speaker 1: and he's gonna be killed. So he was desperately trying

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Speaker 1: to get the agent. The agent comes from California, comes

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Speaker 1: to New York. We pick him up, and I go

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Speaker 1: and I pick up this witness and we bring him

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Speaker 1: to the office and he tells me he goes, carmines

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Speaker 1: up in my attic and he's been there for the

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Speaker 1: last month and a half, and uh, he's going to flee,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, you know, I'll let you know what's

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Speaker 1: going on, and you know what's happening. So they built

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Speaker 1: up the rapport again and sure enough what happened. Within

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Speaker 1: about three weeks, Carmine Persico, Dominic Montmurano, and Jerry l

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Speaker 1: Angelo had a meeting that they're going to plan their

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Speaker 1: escape out of the country and they were going to

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Speaker 1: meet at the Sources ex sources house. So we knew

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Speaker 1: the time they were going to be there and the

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Speaker 1: date and everything else, so we planned strategically where to

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Speaker 1: go when everything else and how to set up so

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Speaker 1: you knew where he was. But you waited for this meeting.

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Speaker 1: So we get all three of them, so they came.

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Speaker 1: They all came in, went in the house, We surrounded

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Speaker 1: the house and then next the you know, Carmine tried

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Speaker 1: to escape out the back and my supervisor no, no no,

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Speaker 1: go out the front, and they arrested him. Carmine Persco

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Speaker 1: is a very very bright man and only had a

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Speaker 1: high school education, and um, he knew the street laws

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Speaker 1: and he knew regular laws, and he actually defended himself

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Speaker 1: in trial. He didn't, yes, he did. He and he

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Speaker 1: did a pretty good job for a guy that's never

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Speaker 1: you know, no formal educational law degree or anything. And

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Speaker 1: the judge told him he because you know what a

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Speaker 1: waste you are because you you did such a great job.

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Speaker 1: If you were applied your self to regular society would

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Speaker 1: have done fine. But one of the unique things about

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Speaker 1: Carmine and organized crime. I remember, um when I was

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Speaker 1: I used to teach at St. John's University organized crime

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Speaker 1: there and one of the quotes from Carmine Persco was

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Speaker 1: there was a bookmaker that had a certain corner over

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. He goes, why do I have to pay

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Speaker 1: you money every every week? He goes, Carmine Persico says, look,

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Speaker 1: we're like the government. I'm protection for you, and I

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Speaker 1: gave you the right to work here, so as a result,

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Speaker 1: you gotta pay me. So you have to pay me

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Speaker 1: every week. And that's the way it's done. And for

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Speaker 1: restaurants to operate, you gotta pay me to make sure

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Speaker 1: nobody breaks up the place. Nobody, you know. And actually

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Speaker 1: they're the ones breaking up the place, and they threatened

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Speaker 1: them and things like that, you know. But they that's

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Speaker 1: how they explored a lot of money. I live in

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Speaker 1: a Italian American neighborhood in Brooklyn, and um, it's not

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Speaker 1: the same as it was back in the seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 1: But those people they're at they're out of they did

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Speaker 1: their time, they're back and you know, trying to go

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Speaker 1: legit and we have normal lives and uh, but you

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Speaker 1: still hear the old stories, you know, the guy who

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Speaker 1: got shot over a game of cards, um, all that,

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Speaker 1: like Donnie Brasco kind of stuff was going on and

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Speaker 1: um and yet one of the there's a one guy

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood who was an Italian immigrant runs a

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Speaker 1: sandwich shop and he was getting shaken down by the

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Speaker 1: Italian mob. Like how messed up is that you immigrate

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Speaker 1: from Italy, come here the land, home of the free,

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Speaker 1: land of the brave, and now you're getting shaken down

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Speaker 1: by the organized crime. It's really amazing, you know. And

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Speaker 1: they really don't have a conscience, a lot of these mobsters,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it's whatever money that he can get

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Speaker 1: from you. And I'll give you an example. I had

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Speaker 1: a case on again. That was the first case I

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Speaker 1: was with, and I had all the cases in between.

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Speaker 1: I had one of the unique things you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn over in Williamsbrooke Brooklyn Um. Uh. Sunny Francis's nephew,

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Speaker 1: Carmine Francis. His nickname was Tuttie to U T. T. I. E.

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Speaker 1: And he had UH social club on Leonard Street, and

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Speaker 1: it was very unique. I would try to do surveillances

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Speaker 1: the whole neighborhood during the summer. They sit on the

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Speaker 1: stoops and you drive down there. And obviously the cars

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Speaker 1: that we had at the time when not undercover cars.

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Speaker 1: I'm driving down with a big Chrysler and They're all

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Speaker 1: looking at me, and I could see them like pointing

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Speaker 1: and things. Oh I did would just go slow down

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Speaker 1: there so I get a couple of license plates and

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Speaker 1: just see who's hanging out there, so I get documented.

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Speaker 1: But even the neighborhood was watching for him, you know.

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Speaker 1: And um so it's it's it's ingrained in the in

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Speaker 1: the in the neighborhood, in the culture, and they're afraid

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Speaker 1: of them, but they also protected. It's very little crime

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Speaker 1: other than their crime. Right, if you don't see outsiders

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Speaker 1: coming in there, you know, um mugging people and everything else,

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Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, you know. But one of

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Speaker 1: the unique things when I was working a case with

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Speaker 1: um Um what happened was after just a backtrack, when

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Speaker 1: Persico went to jail, his son was also in jail.

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Speaker 1: Um little alley boy Um Alphonse Persico, and as a result,

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Speaker 1: he had nobody to run the family while Carmine was

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00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 1: in jail. So he had a fellow name Victor Arena.

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Speaker 1: His name was his nickname was Little Vic. He was

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Speaker 1: a little guy about five four, ruthless man. And he goes,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna take over until my son comes out. He goes,

399
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: it's okay, no problem. Now what got us into that

400
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: case was UM. They were in UM involved in killing

401
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: racehorses for the insurance money. You can't believe these these scams.

402
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a true story. There was a

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Speaker 1: racehorse named Finns and what they did was they would

404
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 1: put the horse in races, all right, and Vic would

405
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Speaker 1: be part owner, and you have a couple other guys,

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00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 1: mobsters and unsuspecting investors, and the horse would win a

407
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: couple of races. But the races were fixed, He's no

408
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: doubt building up the horses credential exactly. And then what

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00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 1: they did was, once you want a couple of races,

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Speaker 1: they would syndicate him. And there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: multimillionaires that want to be investors, investors and owned part

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Speaker 1: owner of a winning horse. They're giving hundreds of thousands,

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00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: if not even millions of dollars. So they have all

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00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 1: this investment money in it, right, and it's all go

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00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: into the mob pocket. Then they go to the insurance

416
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 1: company and said, look we got we just syndicated this

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00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: this horse for six million dollars. We want to insure

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00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: him for that. Sure, they're paying the premiums out of

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00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 1: the money they got from the investors. So what they

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00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: did was they this horse in particular fins Um after

421
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: a wild Once they got the insurance, they waited a while.

422
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: They injected the horse with heartworms and they did it

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00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: out east in winning edge form out Long Island, and

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00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: the horse started having problems. They called in the vet

425
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: and the vets said too late. You can't do anything

426
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 1: for the horse. So they ended up getting insurance company.

427
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: Called the insurance companies, look this horse is going, you know, suffering,

428
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: So they said okay. They brought their vet in, looked

429
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: at him, documented it, okay, put him down and they

430
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: paid six million dollars for that horse. And that's all

431
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: in the Mob's pocket. And that's what that was the

432
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: introduction to um Victor Arena and I I knew that

433
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: he was meeting organized crime figures all along all across

434
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: Long Island. They were in virtually every catering hall Manor

435
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 1: East out in Long Island. Tommy O'shera was behind the

436
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: scenes owner of it. They killed him because he was

437
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,959
Speaker 1: stealing money from the carning industry and skimming money out

438
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: of Manner East. And uh, it's one of the charges

439
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 1: that was against Victor Arena. And two fellows had actually

440
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: murdered him. Uh. Actually they recorded Victorina and said, yeah,

441
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: we we killed them. You know, he was on tape.

442
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: And I mean, that's how ruthless they are. And you

443
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: were telling me some interesting things about how technology is

444
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: developed in terms of you know, bugging cars of people

445
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: and recording devices from your time to now. Yeah, well,

446
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: in the old days, if um, um, they used to

447
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: do recordings, they would put they would sneak in a

448
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: car and they would hook up a wire transmitter all right,

449
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: and they would have to follow the car. You have

450
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: to be within a hundred yards. That's how bad the

451
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: technology was. And oftentimes these people are very stept to

452
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 1: find who's around him. They for the common car and

453
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: it was really an antiquated way to do it. But um,

454
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: you know it worked too to a degree. And what

455
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: happened was, and I put a bug in Um Victorina's

456
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: driver's car. And his nickname was Chubby Ordino, and he

457
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: had his brand new Buick and he used to drive

458
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: Um Victorina around. But what happened just prior to doing

459
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: the car bug, I had a place all set he

460
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: was he was meeting all these mobsters in and actually

461
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: he's a deli uh near Cedarhurst. It was called the

462
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: Wiltshire Delhi, and he had a little room in the

463
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: back and I had all our surveillance guys there I was.

464
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: I had written the after David had a court approval

465
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: everything else to put the bug in there. And then

466
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't given up the power when Alphonse little Alley

467
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 1: Boy came out of jail and Carmine Persco warded him

468
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: to be killed from jail. So here I am. I'm

469
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: doing the oldest to get the bug in the darned Delhi.

470
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: And it would have been a killer. They he was

471
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: meeting ten fifteen guys a day, and I guarantee you

472
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: they we're talking about illegal activities. I had a bunch

473
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: of sources that gave me the information about it, so

474
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: then Carmine Persico has his boys out there try to

475
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: kill him. Now he's on the way and he takes off.

476
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: So we already am months and months. I'm saying, you

477
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: have to go miles to go a few inches. And

478
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: that's what that's what organized crime work happens, you know,

479
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: Is that that that kind of leg work. Is that

480
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: ultimately what changed the game. And I don't want to

481
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: say the downfall of the Italian mafia, but I mean

482
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: it's not what it was a few decades. But they

483
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: they're gonna come back though. You think they're gonna come

484
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: back because the FBI now is looking more into terrorism

485
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: and international terrorism and organized crime is not that much

486
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: on the on the on the scope, and you'll see

487
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: you'll see more and more as time goes on. In

488
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: the next five ten years, you're gonna see the coming back.

489
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: I think those families just can't give it up. They

490
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: can't give it up. They can't go legit and that's

491
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: their lives and what they were actually tried to do,

492
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: especially the Columbo family, they were they were investing in

493
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: a lot of catering holes apartment buildings, and they put

494
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: it into legitimate business and they had you know they

495
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: had the gas tax. But I'll get back to your

496
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: this statement about the bugs. We actually had surveillances on

497
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Victor Arena and his driver. Now this is the Columbo

498
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: War going on. Now, this is now every struggle, big

499
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: power struggle for the control and the soul of the

500
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: Columbo family. Victor Arena was not going to give that up.

501
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: He had his side of alliance. Carmine Persico had his side.

502
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: Carmine Persco had all the sociopaths and the psycho killers. Okay,

503
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: Victor didn't have that many killers on his side, and

504
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: they were shooting at each other all the time out

505
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: in the streets and Brooklyn Queens. They killed the fellow

506
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: about three miles from our office out on Long Island

507
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: at a hotel. So what happened was we knew that

508
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: the driver was picking up through our surveillances, was picking

509
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: up Victor Arena, and he'd have guys go in the

510
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: car and they would talk. So we put a bug

511
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: in the car. But it was the first time he

512
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: used a certain technology. I don't really want to go

513
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: too much now because they don't want to reveal it,

514
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: but it was, you know, used phone technology, things like

515
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: that and we actually stole the driver's car and swapped

516
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: it with the exact duplicate no ship, Yeah, because the

517
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: car was right next to his bedroom. So they wheeled

518
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: it out and they put the other car in there

519
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: because Casey woke up to look at the car. You know,

520
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: we didn't want to see something missing, so they replaced it.

521
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: They took the car into one of our shops and

522
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: then they they loaded the thing up with recording devices

523
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: and transmission devices and things like that. Very very unique

524
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: and that was just the start of the cutting edge

525
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: of the new technology. I mean now it's phenomenal what

526
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: they have and I mean that day, that's how we

527
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: we would have done it in Iraq back and then

528
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: and when I was there, you know, during the war, UM,

529
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: and we were targeting insurgents cells, right, But it's one

530
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: of those things. Is one of those UM. It's interesting

531
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: for me for you know, military nerd like me. You know,

532
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: there were a lot of things that were learned from

533
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: law enforcement that the military wasn't really good at at

534
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: the time. UM. And the Brits were actually further ahead

535
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: of us in the seventies, eighties, even in the nineties,

536
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: maybe because they had that experience of going after the

537
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: i RA and the U. S. Military was just getting

538
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: into counter terrorism. We didn't really know how to do that.

539
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: It's amazing how our country adapts and our our soldiers

540
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: of military, they do phenomenal work. I mean, very bright guys.

541
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: And they figured it out, you know, and as you said,

542
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, use that technology and you know, you save

543
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: lives and you end up getting the bad guys. So

544
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: then you swapped out the bugged car for your decoy,

545
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 1: put it back where it belongs exactly, and they never

546
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: new a thing. They never knew a thing, and they

547
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: were in they were in that car for hours at

548
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: a time. The problem with the technology was it was

549
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: so new it would overheat. So we'd have about an

550
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: hour's worth of really great conversation all of a sudden,

551
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: boom would show it out, and we were able to

552
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: monitor it back at our office. That was the beauty party.

553
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: You didn't have to follow them. So it would cut

554
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: out after about an hour and then take about a

555
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: half hour and get back up and they continue their

556
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: conversations and we recorded, and all those conversations used against

557
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: them in a trial. Maybe maybe this is getting like

558
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: a little too Hollywood. But did you ever have experiences

559
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: or any of your your teammates have these experiences where

560
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: the mafia started targeting you and going after you or

561
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: your family, or started trying to run intelligence operations on

562
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: your office. But we we definitely know that they had

563
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: lookouts at our offices at New York. Not out in

564
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: Long Island I'm aware of, but definitely in New York.

565
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: And we had one agent fellow named Dennis Budua was

566
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: a case agent, and the word was that they wanted

567
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: they were so mad at him because he was so

568
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: effective in his job. They wanted them out. So they

569
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: actually transferred him down to headquarters. You know, if that's

570
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: that's the only case that I'm aware of, because they

571
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: know really not to mess with us. It would have

572
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: been too much, because absolutely, because it would have been

573
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: you want out war on your hands. You know, you

574
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: don't want the government coming at your full boar. And

575
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: as I said, even when looking for Carmine, Persco were

576
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: at every single social club. We basically we're in their

577
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: faces all the time. They can't and they can't operate

578
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: when you're but you guys were never shooting at each other.

579
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: That that was like the line that was never crossed,

580
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: never crossed. Uh. We had one I arrested six of

581
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: our arena's um associates and they were planning to go

582
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: kill somebody and we knew they were in in a

583
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: brownstone in in uh in Brooklyn, and we went there

584
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: at like four o'clock in the morning and knocked on

585
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: the door, raid FBI and and when literally when you

586
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: saw Mario Puzo's film that The Godfather, these guys were

587
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: on the mattresses. There was like six mattresses all laid

588
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: down in the apartment and that's where they were sleeping.

589
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: And that's what they were just waiting to go and uh,

590
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, for their orders who they're going to kill,

591
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: and get all the information and go kill the other side.

592
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: And we arrested all of them. You know. One interesting

593
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: thing that we had. You know, sometimes he was very

594
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: successful with sources and sometimes you're not. You know, it's

595
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: a sometimes a crap shoot. I had this one source,

596
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: excuse me, we nicknamed Joey's Shoes because he used to

597
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: sell sues and stuff and he was he was a

598
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: lone shock victim. And twice, you know, he says, look,

599
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: I gotta pay this guy five grand, and I said, okay,

600
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: I got authorization, we're gonna make the payment. I wired

601
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: the guy up. Next thing, you know, the wire didn't

602
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, nothing worked. I said, well that's not too cool,

603
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: you know. And I said okay, So I said, I'm

604
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: gonna give you one more chance, all right. Another another

605
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: guy you owed money too, So we get five thousand

606
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: dollars cash, give it to him. We wire him up.

607
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: The same thing happens. So that's ten thousand dollars were out.

608
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: And I said, you know what you've done. And that

609
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: was it. So what happened was two days later, just

610
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: so what happens. He goes. Look, I got information that

611
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: this guy named Pulley guns Bavaria, bav Aqua, they're gonna

612
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: go and murder a personal guy. They found him and

613
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: he's going to go home and pick up a couple

614
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: of guns and then he's gonna go into Brooklyn somewhere

615
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't know where. So we go. We rushed. I said,

616
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: you'd sure this. He goes. Absolutely what happened. We got

617
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: the bureau helicopter, we got the surveillance squads. We went

618
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: and everybody we could find from my squad, I went

619
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: to the fellow's house and store him go in. He

620
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: came out a few minutes later, and he was out

621
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: in hot Pog that's where he lived. And he got

622
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: on the parkways. He was going like a hundred miles

623
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: an hour. I couldn't believe it. And he went down.

624
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: I went down to um Um the Southern State Parkway,

625
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: went all the way into Brooklyn, and he pulled in

626
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: and he went into a brownstone in Brooklyn and we waited,

627
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: and we waited and waited and waited. Other people went

628
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: into the building. He came out about four or five

629
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: hours later. We stopped him. Now, one of the biggest

630
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: things when we stopped the war was a lot of

631
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: these fellows that were um mobsters. They had prior records

632
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: and they all carried guns. And I allowed to have

633
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: a gun. So you catch a felon, convicted felon with

634
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: a gun, it's a five year count. So we just

635
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: take him off the street. So he comes out of

636
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: the driveway and he's got a young guy with him,

637
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: and uh, we stopped him. He had a gun with

638
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: him and a bull proof vest on both of them,

639
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: and we arrested him and uh, you know, they ended

640
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: up stopping somebody from being murdered that night. We don't

641
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: know who they want to kill because they never corked

642
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: it up, but it was stuff like that was like reactive,

643
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: and it was just amazing how we were able to

644
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: even stay with him. We had the you know, the

645
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: plane up there and everything else. It's wild and how

646
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: often do these guys end up flipping on each other?

647
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: Or is a murder like sit for real? Or no?

648
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: That you know? The last of the Mohicans is like

649
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: a sunny Frenzies. He wouldn't come across with anybody. And

650
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: and my Forte was getting guys to cooperate and developing

651
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: sources when they were going to violate Sunny Frenzies. They

652
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: wanted me to go and arrest him and pitch him.

653
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: I said, look, this guy is not going to do it.

654
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: He's a true believer. So we went to arrest him.

655
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: He was sitting with some of the mobsters and I said, Sonny,

656
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: you know gonna arrest you. You gotta go with us.

657
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: He goes, can I at least finish my pasta fazule

658
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: before I go? So they have a sense of humor,

659
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, to it. I said, now you can't finish

660
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: your pasta fazul. It is a true story. So get

661
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: him if we get him out of the restaurant. I

662
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: didn't even put the cuffs on him there because it's

663
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: all about respect to you. Don't want to embarrass him

664
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: in front of people. So I got him in the cars.

665
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: I have to put the cuffs on it. And I said,

666
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: they want me to talk to you. He goes, you

667
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: wasting your breath. Before I even get another sentence out,

668
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: I said, well, I gotta give you a pitch. He goes, okay,

669
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: you give me a pitch. Gave him the pitch and

670
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: everything else, and I talked to him for about a

671
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: couple of hours. You know, I talked Tod's family and everything.

672
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: There was no way. Now that's the old style, old school. Yeah.

673
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: And you look at Joey Massino. It was as the

674
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: Bonano family. He rolled on everybody. You know. So this

675
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: that many many years later. That was about maybe ten

676
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: years ago. I think Joey Masino, Uh, he cooperated. He

677
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: had his walls in his house loaded with cash and

678
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: he said, I got like, I don't know, five million

679
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: dollars in the walls. They ripped down the walls they

680
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: found all the cash there, like, and they just arrested

681
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: a couple of members of the Banano family a few

682
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: years ago on old murder charge. Yeah yeah, yeah. And

683
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: it's still after the Gambinos. The Colombos aren't. I mean,

684
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: we really did a good job on the Colombos, but

685
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: the Gambinos are still running around. The Bananos are still there.

686
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: Lu Case he's still there, Genevise, Genevese. I mean, they

687
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: were all going out there and they're just starting to

688
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: solidify more and get their power base, you know, because

689
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: they have a lot of other organized crimes. You know,

690
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: you've got the Armenians, you got the Russians. You know,

691
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: they have to vibe for that power for those areas.

692
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's so cool hearing these stories from you,

693
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: because I feel like you watch movies like Casino and

694
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: you feel like, oh, this is Hyperbolee, this is exaggerabwood,

695
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: and what you're saying is the real deal, that this

696
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: is really how it goes down. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, It's

697
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: it's really what they do. I mean, some of these

698
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: guys are absolutely geniuses. They're funny as heck. You know,

699
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: I've I've interviewed many of them you know, and arrested

700
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of them, and they'll sit there and you

701
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: sit and they'll they're bright as can be, and you know,

702
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, that's that's their life. You know.

703
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: One of the most accurate movies an organized crime was

704
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: Good Fellows. That was right down the line. It was

705
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: just truly amazing how these people could go kill somebody

706
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: and go have dinner with their mother to people like

707
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: you in order to get an accurate portrayal of that,

708
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: you know. I don't know if they really did, you know, um,

709
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: but it was I'm sure they talked to a lot

710
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: of mobsters, you know, and they got the story because

711
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 1: that one, that movie was just spot on, the best

712
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: one I've ever seen, was right on it. So I

713
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: definitely really want to hear about Bernie Madoff. I think

714
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: that's a subject of great interest for this audience and

715
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: of myself. And you're could you talk just first about

716
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: how you transition from going dealing with Italian organized crime

717
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: to white collar crime. I mean, I'd like to trans

718
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: how I did it. Actually, I used white collar crime

719
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: techniques against the mob because it was so hard to

720
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: get them on recordings and social clubs, and as I said,

721
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: I had to go miles to go two inches just

722
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: to try to get a bug in a certain place.

723
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: But once you realize that a lot of these guys

724
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: are still involved in white collar crimes. They were in

725
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: they were in um commodities markets. Uh, they were in

726
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, all kinds of ways to manipulate

727
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: markets and and doing white collar crimes. So we started

728
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: to do that and I finished my last case when

729
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: organized crime was basically the Arena case and everything. Then

730
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: I went over to the foreign counter intelligence side. Then

731
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: what happened was I actually was on a on a

732
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: golf trip with with a friend. He goes, you know,

733
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: we're looking for somebody to do asset forfiture work for

734
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: the FBI. And he was a he was an agent,

735
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: he was a supervisor, very good friend of mine, and

736
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: he said, we're looking for somebody to do asset forfeiture.

737
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I said, I'm ready. I was fifty five years old,

738
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: ready to transition to after my career. He goes, really,

739
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: I you know, you're a go ghet it with the

740
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, the FBI and everything. I said, Look, time

741
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: has changed, you know, it's time to go and do

742
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: something else. So what happened was a a. I put

743
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: my resume in, they hired me. It was pretty funny

744
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: because they didn't you couldn't get a break of service

745
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: how the government works. If I retired on a Friday

746
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: and I didn't start the next Monday, you have a

747
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: break in service. So they have to do a whole

748
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: background investigations, which could take up to a year. So

749
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: I actually retired on February three and started doing this

750
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: February six, so I didn't have any time off, you know.

751
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: So what I did we started working um asset furniture

752
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: cases and now we're looking at the bank books and

753
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: records and things like that to follow the money. And

754
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: Bernie made Off was just an amazing guy. I can't

755
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: believe he did what he did, all right. I wasn't

756
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: the case A and I just did the asset forfeiture side.

757
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 1: The case A had the case and they had some complaints,

758
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: so they started investigating him. They had the SEC looking

759
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: at him. And now this is a man that was

760
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: in charge of NASDAC way back, I mean, very reputable guy.

761
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: You would never think that he would do something like

762
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: SEC executive. Yeah. Absolutely. And then the man I mean

763
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: I never met him personally. But this man had no conscience.

764
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: People were begging him to take their money because he

765
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: was promising them fantastic returns on their money. And actually,

766
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine who was a real

767
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: estate developer. One of his friends said, look, you gotta

768
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: go to Bernie made Off. You take all your money,

769
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: put it in there, and you know he's going to

770
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: give you a twelve percent a month on your money.

771
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: And my friend said, that doesn't sound right. I'm not

772
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: doing that. He goes, Thank goodness, I didn't do that.

773
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: So what happened was I started following the corporation's money

774
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: and his personal money. He had accounts over the Isle

775
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: of man Or for England, and which I wasn't really

776
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: that familiar, and I found I found a couple of

777
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: billion dollars of they are tax havens. He had came

778
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: in islands, he had houses all over And what we

779
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: did we started to do really a financial work up

780
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: on him. So when it came time to arrest him,

781
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: we seized all his assets, okay, and we got the

782
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: really good fundamentals on where everything went. He spent so

783
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: much money, and unique aspect was I went. I went

784
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: to his office right after he was arrested. His office

785
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: was nothing spectacular, to believe it or not. You would

786
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: think that somebody had these billions of dollars of assets

787
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: and everything else, that he would have a super office.

788
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: It really wasn't. One of the unique things. I walked

789
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: into his office. He had this three ft screw right

790
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: behind him. It's like a little rusted screw. And all

791
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: I can think of is when somebody came in there,

792
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: they don't know, but I'm gonna screw you. That's that's

793
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: my interpretation. What why would you ever have to have

794
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: a screw sitting there behind you, a three foot screw right,

795
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: a big old um wooden screw. So we all rusted.

796
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: And he had like a little cone of silence, believe

797
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: it not, in his in his office, he had a

798
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: little section was all glassed in and he had a

799
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: little thing from music in there so we can have

800
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 1: private conversations and nobody could hear it. So you knew

801
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: he's backing that up. But it was truly amazing. I

802
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: went into his computer room. He had an old dot

803
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: matrix printer, you know, with the green stripes and white stripes.

804
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: With everybody got the same um investments. They were just

805
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 1: different amounts exactly the same. Tidn't see what I'm saying.

806
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: Everyone was they couldn't make up all kinds of they

807
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: didn't invest anything, okay, and they would give people their

808
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: statements on old dot matrix printers. Holy shit, I mean,

809
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: I saw it. It was unbelievable. And everybody, from what

810
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: my knowledge is, they everybody had the same exact investments

811
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: but different amounts. So you had to have somebody on

812
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: the inside that knew what everybody's account was, and they

813
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: had to plug in the numbers, and it was I mean,

814
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: it's still incredibly sloppy. I mean absolutely, It's unreal that

815
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: he got away with it so long. That's my point.

816
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: I can't believe that people would. You know, when people

817
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: look at things like this, you know, human nature is

818
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 1: amazing feature. And people when it comes down the money,

819
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, they look at wow, I'm gonna make fantastic money,

820
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: and they look at their statements. Look at it, I'm

821
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: now worth two million dollars. I only gave him five

822
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: hundred thousand or something. You know, they're they're figuring, I'm

823
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: gonna let it ride. The guy's doing great stuff for me.

824
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, I was living a lifeful luxuries, got all

825
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: these boats, and it's really crazy stuff. So you were

826
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: able to apply some of the techniques that the FBI

827
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: used in combating organized crime to go after Bernie's assets

828
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: and shut it all down at once. Yeah, and we

829
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: use the white called crime techniques, good bank records, you know,

830
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: wire transfers, everything else we could find and uh, it's

831
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: really amazing. Everything is computerized. Now we get this stuff

832
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: and we could really do a work up on somebody.

833
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: You can say it's exactly where they're spending the money

834
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: with how much comes in, how much goes out, and

835
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: where it goes. And that's what we did. We traced

836
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: their money all over the world. I remember one of

837
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: the big controversies with Bernie made Off was when when

838
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: he got arrested, a lot of people were debating whether

839
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: his wife really knew what was going on. I'd love

840
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: to hear your take on that. I find it very

841
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: surprising that she didn't have any type of knowledge what

842
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: he was up to. I mean that that's obviously the

843
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: defense that she had to use because there was no

844
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: other defense for it other than lack of knowledge. Now,

845
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: this guy, you know, he was one of the biggest

846
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: rip offs of a Ponzi scheme in world history. And

847
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: she had absolutely no clue. And then you look at

848
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: the two sons. The one son committed suicide right after it.

849
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: You know they knew what was going on. They had

850
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: to know, and the remorse and the problems and the

851
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: construction of the family, and um, you know, there's no

852
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind she had to have an inkling.

853
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: What was not only more of an inkling, but she

854
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: had some knowledge of what's going what happened. Do you

855
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: think there's another Bernie made off out there somewhere? There's

856
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: always going to be a Murdie made off, no matter

857
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: what I can give you cases that we worked. There

858
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: was one out in the Long Island. Um, this guy

859
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: named Nicholas Cosmo had a company called a Copy. He

860
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: had over a hundred million dollars from five thousand investors

861
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: out Long Island, and he was promising. He's said, we're

862
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: doing short term bridge loans to companies. The guy was

863
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: already a felon, alright, so that shouldn't be It's not

864
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: allowed to do it. Nobody's nobody was watching him or whatever.

865
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: And they had a hundred million dollars worth investment. These

866
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: people turned in their four oh one ks the I

867
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: R A S because it was such a great investment.

868
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: And they had these young kids selling the stuff they

869
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: were in there is like a boiler room and making

870
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: phone calls sound. That's exactly, that's exactly the type of

871
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: thing that happened. And finally, you know, and he started

872
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: taking their money and investing in the commodities high risks investments.

873
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: The guy was horrible. He lost everything, He made no money,

874
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: and they were all living. You know, these even as

875
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: the guys that were selling the product, they were making

876
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: ten million dollars, seven million dollars out of this. They

877
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: were these young kids are twenty three years old. There

878
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: the richest could be. And when you can't pay the

879
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, the money out, everything collapsed. And that's how

880
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: they got them out there. You know. I don't know

881
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: if you have any visibility on this whatsoever, UM, but

882
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: this case does intersect with UM, with finance and and

883
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: perhaps white collar crime is uh. Jeff Epstein was a

884
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: teacher in Brooklyn and he had this meteoric rise somehow

885
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: becoming a hedge fund to only billionaires and within a

886
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: few years and and now the I mean, he's not

887
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: on trial for white collar crime, but he's on trial

888
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: for human trafficking underage girls. Huge, huge scandal um quins

889
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: and from he was, I mean he he traveled in

890
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: some big circles. Circles. Yeah, but anyway, I just wanted

891
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: to ask if you I'm not familiar with that, but

892
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: you know, that's the thing. A lot of these investment

893
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: guys that do these Ponzi schemes and everything, they are

894
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: very intelligent, articulate, and they can they can sell you anything.

895
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that they suck in these people.

896
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: It sounds great, you know, like like you said, with

897
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: a mob boss. I mean, why do you think they

898
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: don't just contribute to society in a in a lawful way.

899
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: Is it ego? No, it's it's well how they brought up.

900
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: You know, these guys are from the school of hard knocks.

901
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: You know, most of these guys were became street thugs.

902
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: They were in gangs, you know, and you needed to

903
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: do that to survive on the streets. That's exactly, and

904
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: especially in the old days, you know. And now it's

905
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like that so much. I mean,

906
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: you see John gott his son had enough because he

907
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: knew that the Feds are always going to be on him.

908
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: He didn't want any more of it, you know, so

909
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: he got out of the life, you know, but not

910
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: really went legit. And but these guys, you know, like

911
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: again Carmine Persico and all these Luczy and these guys,

912
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: they grew up in the on the streets and they

913
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: had you said, either kill, would be killed. And then

914
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: they just graduated, got bigger, and they thought a better schemes.

915
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: You know, they got into drugs. Or retired NYPD cop

916
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: telling me about busting up the Irish mob here in

917
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: the city. They were he said, they were crazy west

918
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: He's crazy, just like out of their minds on cocaine

919
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: all the time, drunk off their asses. I had sources

920
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: that told me some of those guys are actually doing

921
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 1: hits for the mob, for the Italians, and they crossed

922
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: lines there a little bit. They go out there, kill

923
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: somebody and get paid and that was it. You know.

924
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: They were very very ruthless back on the on the

925
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: West Side. Wow, the latest guy to be arrested in

926
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: Ponzi scheme or high profile figure. I don't know if

927
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: you followed was that guy, Craig Carton on Sports Radio

928
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: sixty six. I mean, I know it's like a Western thing,

929
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: but you know, to pay back these massive gambling debts.

930
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: That that was pretty crazy. And this guy, who was

931
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: a number one rated radio host making millions of dollars

932
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: is now going to be in jail for the next

933
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: three years. Isn't that crazy? You know? And you look

934
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: at it. You know, people, if they have a dead

935
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: end and they know that something's going to happen to him,

936
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: they come up within, you know, creative ways to get

937
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: some financing. And I'm sure that's what he did. And

938
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: with this ticket scheme, yeah, I mean but crazy, you know,

939
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: just why would you do that? Because you're gonna pay

940
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: the piper sooner or later. You know, somebody's gonna catch

941
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,479
Speaker 1: onto it. And a lot of times so these people

942
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: don't look down the road what's gonna happen, you know,

943
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: and uh, they just do what works expediently for them.

944
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: There they got the money and they don't look at

945
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: the consequences. Yeah, for those outside of New York who

946
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 1: might not know, I mean, this guy's like a local

947
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: celebrity here on you know, Sports Radio sixty six, major channel,

948
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: and he was, uh, you might know a little bit more,

949
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: but he was basically taking money from these major hedge

950
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: fund guys and promising them tickets to big events, you know,

951
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: Metallica and and other big concerts, and he apparently did

952
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: not really have these tickets, and he was using that

953
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: money to pay off gambling debt. And according to him,

954
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 1: he had this massive gambling problem. I heard him give

955
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: the whole interview on UM. I'm trying to think of

956
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: where it was, but he he did an in depth

957
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: interview about this on ESPN radio and said that he

958
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: was such a gambling addict that he would get into

959
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: at four am for his morning show. Uh. And there

960
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: were nights where he would get a helicopter to a

961
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: casino around here like Foxwoods at midnight, uh, and gamble

962
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: for a few hours, get into his radio show. And

963
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, his his wife didn't know it was this

964
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: big of a problem, and he got so caught up

965
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: in it that he needed to pay this debt some way, right,

966
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: you know that the it's really amazing. I don't not

967
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: up on it really right now, but you know how

968
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: it's always difficult to get theater tickets, concert tickets and

969
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: I had a source way back. This is back in

970
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: the eighties, and he started one of the first ticket

971
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: broking companies in UH in existence and over New Jersey

972
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: was it was allowed, you know, it was legal. And

973
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: he had this company called Concert Bandwagon. And what he

974
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: would do is he go to Old every major show,

975
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: go into the guys that had the tickets and pay him.

976
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,959
Speaker 1: He goes, he ever knows, these guys make thirty thousand dollars,

977
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: but they have a million dollar boat. He goes, that's

978
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: because we're paying him off and they're making all kinds

979
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: of money. Again, I don't know what's going on now,

980
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 1: this is way back. And he would get the prime

981
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: seats on every show, every every concert you know, and um,

982
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: you know Madson Square Garden, and he'd be paying these

983
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: guys off and he and he would take the tickets

984
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: and he'd sell them for a thousand dollars. He pay

985
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: face value for it selling a thousand, two thousand dollars,

986
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: and it's it's amazing amount of money he was making.

987
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, um and talk about the

988
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: politicization of the FBI, but before we get there, the

989
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: other assignment you had, which I find very interesting is

990
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: that you worked UM foreign counter intelligence for the bureau. Uh.

991
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: What was your experience like there, as far as you

992
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: know what you're allowed to talk about, Well, it was

993
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: very unique. It was kind of funny how how things

994
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: end and then something else begins. I had UM, I

995
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: had one of the major sources in in the in

996
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: the FBI an organized crime, and it was my opinion

997
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: that my supervisor didn't want me to have him anymore

998
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: because he had friends. Whatever, you wanted somebody else to

999
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: have this source. So the next thing I know, he's

1000
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: given me a hard time. I had a huge battle

1001
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: with him one day and I said, you know what,

1002
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: I'm leaving the office, you know. And I leave the office.

1003
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: I got a phone call and it's from a supervisor

1004
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: on the Foreignencounter Intelligence side and operations, and I have

1005
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: no idea what they did. And I had met this

1006
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: fellow and he was in an informant unit down to headquarters.

1007
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: I was there for two weeks and we became very

1008
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: good friends. His name was Mike Fallon, very smart guy, articulate.

1009
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: He goes, you know what you can. He goes, you

1010
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: have a great reputation and everybody knows you knows you

1011
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: are a good worker and we'd like to have you

1012
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: over in our unit. And he said you'd be interested

1013
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: as sure, definitely answer. He goes, really, I said yeah.

1014
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: He goes, this was on a Wednesday, and he goes,

1015
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: when can you start? I said, how about Monday? He goes,

1016
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: you're kidding me. I said, no, I'm ready. I've had

1017
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: enough with this and everything else because you're always fighting

1018
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: Department of Justice and things like that, which we can

1019
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: get into late if you want. But I had enough.

1020
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: He goes, Okay. I made the phone calls, so then

1021
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: called my my current boss. I said, I'm ad at you.

1022
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm leaving, and he goes, that's fine. And I was

1023
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: going by monday. And this was a unit. Um in

1024
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: the in the FBI, we worked with other intelligence agencies.

1025
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: We did some magnificent, great stuff for this country. And UM,

1026
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: I can't talk about techniques or anything like that, but

1027
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 1: I can tell you this that we we were well watched.

1028
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: You know, we watched a lot of good things, and

1029
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: we we did a lot of good things for our country,

1030
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: a lot of intelligence gathering things. And it was six

1031
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: some of the best years I have had. And um,

1032
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying before I said, you some guys when they

1033
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: don't have knowledge of what's going on, and see all

1034
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: you guys, you know, we don't do anything there because

1035
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: they don't know. And I said to him, I said,

1036
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: let me tell you something I did more on one

1037
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: day than you've done it in ten years for the

1038
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: safety of this country. You have no clue. And this,

1039
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: this is a great unit, and these guys do some

1040
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: fabulous stuff. There's some great brains out there, I mean,

1041
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: far beyond what I have that really can think on

1042
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: how to go against our adversaries. And that's what we did.

1043
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: We went and we have. As I said, virtually every

1044
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: country is after us, and I'm talking you know, Great Britain, France,

1045
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: or Japan, China, Russia, they're all looking to try to

1046
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: get an edge over us economically. And this we're trying

1047
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: to watch and keep up to make sure that we,

1048
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: you know, we can athwart their their efforts towards us.

1049
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of talk in the FBI,

1050
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: but in every across our government about counter terrorism since

1051
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: nine eleven, and we put the focus there for a reason. Um,

1052
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: but how would you rate this threat that comes from

1053
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: adversarial nations. Well, I think it's it's always going to

1054
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: be there because you people that have such different cultures

1055
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: from us that they're jealous and the religious fanatics that

1056
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: are out there and they don't care if they die

1057
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: doing what they you know, what they do. It's your

1058
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: experience over in Afghanistan and such, right, And that's the

1059
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: scary part. When you have somebody that doesn't care, how

1060
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: are you going to thwart this? And that's why our

1061
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: intelligence gathering has to be top notch, and even as

1062
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: good as we can be, you're gonna miss things because

1063
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: there are people that are very quiet, very stealthy, and

1064
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: they have they figure out whatever ways we can find them.

1065
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: They learn that, then they find alternate ways to communicate

1066
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: and alternate ways to commit these hannis hineous acts, you know.

1067
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: So it's always going to be there, and that's why

1068
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: they took the FBI made it more into UH intelligence

1069
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: for terrorism everything because you know, what happened in nine

1070
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: eleven should never happen every again. But it's it's scary,

1071
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, really, especially with Iran, with the technology they

1072
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: are getting. They don't care what they do and their

1073
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: main goal is to take us down whatever, which way

1074
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: they can. Is that a tough balance for the bureau

1075
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 1: to find to balance counter terror some between versus say

1076
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: organized crime, say countering intelligence operations from foreign countries. I

1077
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: mean you have to find a balance between absolutely things. Yeah,

1078
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: they look at the stacks. You know, we have the

1079
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: being coounters down in headquarters that they count bodies and

1080
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: what who's a lot of to certain programs and things

1081
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: like that, so they know to put certain people, you know,

1082
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: a certain amount of people for the terrorism aspect. And

1083
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: they've really gotten quite prolific at it. They've gotten very

1084
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: very good at you know, looking at who the suspects are,

1085
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: the countries. Uh, you know, we have very good ability

1086
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: to monitor conversations, you know, and the coordinating with the CIA,

1087
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: the n s A. And you know that's why when

1088
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: when you look at like i'd say, maybe civil libertarians

1089
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: that worry about the government big brother, well, you need

1090
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: to do things to be to be protected, to protect

1091
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: our population exactly. So you have some good some bad,

1092
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: you know. But you know, at the end, no matter what,

1093
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: it's always going to change. It's it's like um uh

1094
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: an amba morphing into something else, you know, And that's

1095
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: what they're doing. In the terrorism aspect, and they're gonna

1096
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 1: come up with unique ways. One of my scariest feelings are,

1097
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, they can miniaturize atomic bombs, you know, and

1098
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: you look at Iran. They don't care what they do.

1099
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: They can come into in. One of the concerns was

1100
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: a dirty bomb in New York. What would that do

1101
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: to our economy if they set something off? You know,

1102
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: you're just send little pieces bit by bit and get

1103
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: an apartment and then let it go. And you know,

1104
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: that's the thing. We have to be really diligent about it.

1105
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: And that's why the the FBI and the government's really

1106
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: is looking at the terrorist aspect. It's very, very scary.

1107
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: And the other question that we wanted to ask you

1108
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: that we want to talk about, well, first off, I

1109
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: just want to say I love talking to guys like

1110
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: you can because I love talking to cops because it's

1111
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 1: uh like my normal work, you know, working as a journalist,

1112
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: I often talk to people in the intelligence community. I

1113
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: often talk to people in the military and I're like,

1114
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: I can't really talk to you about that, jack, you know,

1115
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: But with cops, what you guys do all becomes public

1116
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: knowledge after the prosecute exactly the case of the case

1117
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: public knowledge. So I mean, you guys can really go

1118
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: in depth and talk about, you know, the ins and

1119
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: outs of this. So it's like a really great conversation,

1120
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: So thank you. But um, we want to talk about

1121
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: the politicization of the FBI. And I mean I have

1122
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: as a as a lay person, I've never been a

1123
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: law enforcement officer looking at it and seeing on the

1124
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,439
Speaker 1: outside in and um, I'm not particularly partisan. I don't

1125
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: whatever my feelings are aren't about President Trump. And I

1126
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: just want to see the facts come out. And if

1127
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: there's corruption, I'd like to see prosecutions, but I'm not

1128
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: interested in witch hunts, right, So I watch what's going

1129
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: on in the public sphere, and um, you know you

1130
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: had even mentioned to me some things about Comey and

1131
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: Brennan and making people, um, who were directors of the

1132
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: CIA or the director of the FBI making these pretty

1133
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: bombastic statements in public, and UM, it's like, wow, these

1134
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: are they're retired now, I get it, But these are

1135
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: instant tuitions that once prided themselves on unemotional objective analysis

1136
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,439
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And you know that's that's the upsetting part

1137
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: about all of this. That these these leaders came out

1138
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: and in making all these public statements and their whether

1139
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: you're feelings on Trump, but one way or the other,

1140
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 1: they should not be making these statements, you know, because

1141
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: when Brennan, you know, made all these statements at what

1142
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: Trump has done, his treasonist and all this other kind

1143
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: of stuff, and then he's and then he has the

1144
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: nerve to say, well I got some bad information. Yeah, yeah,

1145
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: that was surreal. I said, listen, the CIA does not

1146
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: get bad information. If you get bad information, you don't

1147
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: use it well. And furthermore, if he had information and

1148
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: he said it on I mean, that was an illegal

1149
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: statement he made. That was a divulging of classified information.

1150
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: That's crazy, it really is. That's illegal from the get go.

1151
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: So the the upsetting aspect is when you when you

1152
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: really and do an analysis of these leaders from Brennan

1153
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: to come to Clapper, these guys that they look more

1154
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: of an appearance of like political hacks, and they do

1155
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: real leader is of the federal institutions that they represent.

1156
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: And I have never seen a director of the CIA

1157
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: or the FBI come out with statements like they have.

1158
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: Usually when the director's done, whether they get fired or

1159
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: they leave, they go into public life, or they retire,

1160
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: and you just go off into the sunset like the

1161
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: old Westerns, you know, right off, and that's it. These

1162
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: guys are not going away. What do you think of

1163
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: Bob muer then um as a director, he wasn't the

1164
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: best around, to be honest with you, but he's very

1165
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: adept man um. I don't know when he found that

1166
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: there was no collusion or whatever, and I'm only going

1167
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: by what I see in reports. I have nothing to

1168
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: do with anything out of that. But Mueller, it has

1169
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: always been known as a stand up guy that would

1170
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: do the right thing, and I think he gave it

1171
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: a good shot, you know, to do what he could

1172
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: do um and investigate and found nothing and you gotta

1173
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: live with it. That's that's what it is, you know.

1174
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: And this discourse that's going on between the political parties

1175
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: to try to get a political advantage, I think it's

1176
00:56:58,239 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: just hideous. Do you think he did a good job

1177
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: at s thing? Impartial? I think overall, I haven't really

1178
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: read the report. I just you know that here is

1179
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: ready summaries and things like that. I think it's okay,

1180
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: But when you look at who he had is on

1181
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,720
Speaker 1: his team. You know again what I gave an example

1182
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: earlier before we went on air. I said, when I

1183
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: first became an FBI agent, one of our instructors said,

1184
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: you see that emblem up there as his Department of

1185
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: Justice and the FBI underneath it. He goes, the Department

1186
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: of Justice has been trying to take over the FBI

1187
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: for years, and he goes, so far now this and

1188
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: he said, so far we've been able to repel them,

1189
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: But there's gonna be a time when the Department of

1190
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: Justice is going to come in and they're going to

1191
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: be in management and they're gonna run what's going on now.

1192
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: The problem is a lot of Department of Justice employees

1193
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: are political appoint theees. So now you have people that

1194
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: are political appoint theees coming into a law enforcement agency. Now,

1195
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: human nature being the way it is, then you look

1196
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: at things you know that we're done. It's kind of

1197
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: scary to see the end result what really happened out

1198
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: of this stuff? And I guess the truth will come

1199
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: out later on. And in the FBI, the who are

1200
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: the political appointees? There's the director, he can appoint anybody

1201
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: he wants, the personnel, director assistant, but the director is

1202
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: the only real political appointee. Well, he's the first and

1203
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: only appointee by the president, and then he could bring

1204
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: in whoever he wants. And that they never did that

1205
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: years ago, back from um the very beginning, you know,

1206
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: and nobody brought in politicians who are people that were

1207
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: in political appointed positions. You know, when we had Jack Devine,

1208
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: who was the director of Operations for the CIA at

1209
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: one time, we interviewed him and he said, you know,

1210
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: the agency is actually very lucky in the sense that

1211
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: our only political appointee is the director and maybe his

1212
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: chief of staff. But that's about it. Well, I can

1213
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: tell you a story. There was James Calstrom, whose assistant

1214
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: director in New York. He was there for a number

1215
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: of years. Were there for Flight eight hundred. I was

1216
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: in the command center out there in ma Richus, which

1217
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: was quite an experience. UM. But Jim Calstrom, you know,

1218
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: he he gave a speech one time and I actually

1219
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: really noted that he said, call me, brought in a

1220
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: bunch of sycophants, and he didn't like call me one bit.

1221
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: And he said what he's done to the bureau is

1222
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: really really bad. And he's assistant director. He had a

1223
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: lot of context. So if that's who I rely upon

1224
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: people like that and then say, wow, you know that's

1225
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: that's what this man did. What do you think? What

1226
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: what is the before we get it a little bit

1227
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: deeper into it. What is the appropriate relationship between d

1228
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: o J and FBI? What what what are their lanes? Well,

1229
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: the lanes should be. The FBI is an autonomous investigative agency.

1230
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: We handle the investigations there that up there, the cops,

1231
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice are the prosecutors. Now, we investigate

1232
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: the case. Sometimes we need subpoenas, sometimes we need cord orders.

1233
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: We have to work with the U S. Attorneys to

1234
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: get the orders and everything. They're supposed to provide services

1235
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: for us to make these cases. You process, to process

1236
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: everything and make sure that we follow the law, which

1237
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: we do. I have never seen anybody ever cut corners. Okay,

1238
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: but what they're supposed to work with us. Now, the

1239
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: lane is that they prosecute and we if they don't

1240
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: feel they have enough evidence, all right, go out and

1241
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: get more evidence. We go and get the more evidence,

1242
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: give it to them. Okay, Now we have enough and

1243
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: we have witnesses, we have tapes, we have financial records,

1244
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: and they'll go and prosecute and you work together and

1245
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: prepare for trial and then you do the trial together.

1246
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: And that's the way it's supposed to work. But now

1247
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: it's to a degree with the Apartment of Justice. Is okay,

1248
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: I want you to go here and go talk to

1249
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: this guy. I want you to do this, and that

1250
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: is that lawful? There, you're a team. I don't know,

1251
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's illegal at all, but

1252
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: it's it's this is what's happening now. They're taking over

1253
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: UH basically the direction of cases and of law enforcement

1254
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: investigation and that. And that's the scary part. Again. A

1255
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: lot of these people, again the assistant the United States

1256
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: Attorney's Southern District, Eastern District, across the country, their political

1257
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: point these the president appoints him. So when you have

1258
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: president like Obama, he put a lot of rule people

1259
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: in there. So that's that's in the culture. And they

1260
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: were in there for a very long time and they

1261
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: started pointing other other people. So when you look at

1262
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: what happened with the Russian investigation with you know, with

1263
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: the UH silicious, salacious UH dossier and things like that,

1264
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: and then or and all these people, they were all liberals,

1265
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: and you you kind of wonder, you know, what's really

1266
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: going on here? And they who directed who you know,

1267
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: did the FBI have this case and then brought it

1268
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: to them. I don't know, it looks like the Department

1269
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: Justice brought it over to the FBI, you know. I mean,

1270
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: I suppose maybe it'll all come out in the wash

1271
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: and it's something for the history books. But just from

1272
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: my perspective, it does seem pretty clear that they hyped

1273
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: it up to such an extent. And um, I am

1274
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: glad we live in a country of you know, due

1275
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: process where they you know, they did their investigation that

1276
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: came back said, okay, well there wasn't collusion. We looked,

1277
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: but it's not there, right. I have worked on over

1278
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: thirty wire taps. I've I've sat on the wires up

1279
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: in Connecticut where I was up there, I sat on

1280
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: wires down here. I wrote a bunch of Affi David's

1281
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: and I'll give you a perfect example of a situation

1282
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: that happened in the Department of Justice. We were doing.

1283
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: I was doing the the Affi David for the Car book.

1284
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: I had four different sources, and one source was a female,

1285
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: and she worked in an office of this lawyer where

1286
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: Victory was having all his meetings. We're a better place

1287
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: to have a meeting because they know they can't bug

1288
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: at the guy's a lawyer unless we get enough problem

1289
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: cause which Department of Justice doesn't want to go after attorneys.

1290
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: Which I had a hard time getting a search warrant

1291
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: for his office. Believe me, it took me well over

1292
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: a year. It was crazy. So they my source was

1293
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: worked for the attorney and she was in with the mob,

1294
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: and the mob was in the office every single day,

1295
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: and she was my source giving me all this information.

1296
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: So we're writing the Affidavid and the U S attorneys sist.

1297
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: The United States attorney that was working with me said, okay,

1298
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: read my part that I put in there. And I said, well,

1299
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: you really can't. I said, you're putting down the persons

1300
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: of female. She works the hours from eight until five,

1301
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, and she's in the office every day and

1302
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: that's her bona fides for the information. I said, he

1303
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: can't put that in there. She goes. If that doesn't stay,

1304
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: they we're not doing the order. So I'm sitting there

1305
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: looking at her. You didn't want it in there because

1306
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: would blow your sword absolutely that that source will be

1307
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: dead in ten minutes after this gets revealed. There's no

1308
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: doubt about it. So I said, you know what, I said,

1309
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: what you could play this game and said, all right, fine,

1310
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: leave it in there. They left it in. We finished

1311
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: the whole thing and finally it took weeks to get

1312
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: it together. Before we put the car bug in. He said,

1313
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: that's a go if you really look at what happens

1314
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: with wire taps, and a lot of people in the

1315
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: in the country don't understand us. We're getting the problem

1316
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: causing the FBI, and we work with the Department of Justice.

1317
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: So after we finished writing the affidavit and to get

1318
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: the order it goes back. We send a copy down

1319
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: to FBI headquarters, the legal unit. They look at it,

1320
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: they look at it with a fine tooth comb, and

1321
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: it goes down to the Department of Justice in their

1322
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: review unit, and then it goes up through different realms

1323
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: of authority and it has to be approved all the

1324
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: way up. I can't tell you how many times take

1325
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: this period out, put a COMI here, crazy little even

1326
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: radical things, and it goes all the way up to

1327
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: the top, and then it's finally approved by the assistant

1328
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: director and also Department of Justice, U S. Attorney, they're representative,

1329
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 1: and then it comes back to us and then we

1330
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: go to the court and swear it out before a judge.

1331
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: So I was very cognizant of every bit of information

1332
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: that was true and accurate, and you stood up there.

1333
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: I was still nervous because sometimes you don't know if

1334
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: the source is going to be lying to you or whatever,

1335
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: but you try to do the best you can to

1336
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: corroborate it. So I always made sure I corroborated by

1337
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: not only one source. I had four sources in this

1338
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: one particular AFFI David. And I was still nervous swearing

1339
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: out because I was worried that something might not be

1340
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: true and I'm gonna go to jail. That's why this

1341
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: fires a warrant is kind of scary because that's the

1342
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: level that I has to go to. So any how,

1343
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: what happens was the get it all done, and the U. S.

1344
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: Attorney's assistant says, okay, let's get a signus. I'm not

1345
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: signing it because why not, I said, you take that

1346
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: paragraph out that reveals my source. She went nuts, I'm

1347
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: getting you fired. Called my as called him up personally

1348
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: right in front of me. I want ken Steiger fired.

1349
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: What he has done is an abomination. We want to

1350
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: get this thing done. He's keeping us from doing it,

1351
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: and he's stopping the whole investigation. And this will not

1352
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 1: happen now, Don said to the Assistant United States Attorney.

1353
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: If ken Steiger said, it doesn't belong on that after David,

1354
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: it does not belong there. Take it out or forget it,

1355
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: big balls. Really absolutely, she was, as my mother would say,

1356
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: she was met at than a wet hen. I'm telling it.

1357
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: She was so mat and she had to take it out.

1358
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: What's the big deal? Take a paragraph out? You're you're

1359
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: getting stuck on something that you can have somebody killed.

1360
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: And it didn't matter to her. And that's one of

1361
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: the things the differences I find between the FBI. When

1362
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: we we've developed these sources, you become a little bit

1363
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: emotionally involved with these people. Want you don't want to

1364
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: see him get killed. You don't want to seem getting

1365
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: beaten up. And they're calling you, they're calling me when

1366
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: problems come up. The Department of Justice, they look at it.

1367
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: They don't care. I mean, it's just a name to them,

1368
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: and they don't mind if people get burned at times,

1369
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: some of these assistants, and it's kind of scary, and

1370
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: that's the that's the difference. And we have to go

1371
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: back out on the streets and if you burn somebody,

1372
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: what's your reputation going to be? If the word gets

1373
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: out that you had somebody as a source and the

1374
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: guy gets burned, you know. So it's it's really it's

1375
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: really a tough road to go down. From your perspective,

1376
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 1: this is increasingly a problem that the Department of Justice

1377
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: is intervening, their coming in laterally and telling the FBI

1378
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: where they need to go, what they need to do.

1379
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: In my opinion, yes, you know, it's it's very very

1380
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: difficult for these agents, and I know, especially out on

1381
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: Long Island. You know, they're working the Gang Task Force

1382
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: out there, and you know, some of these assistants, you know,

1383
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 1: sit there. I want it done this way, and you know,

1384
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: and they have some battles and the FBI loses almost

1385
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: every single one because the management backs up Department Justice.

1386
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: You know, hey, we have to get along, you know,

1387
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: and that's you have to do what's right. I'd rather

1388
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 1: do what's right first and even lose a case than

1389
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: do something that I have to live with for the

1390
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: rest of my life. It's somebody's gets killed or something happens,

1391
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, And I mean is also part of it,

1392
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: sounds like part of the division between you know, labor

1393
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: and management. I mean, if prosecutor doesn't walk the streets,

1394
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: they don't necessarily know where to look in the first place.

1395
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly. That's like somebody like you knows

1396
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: that part of it. Absolutely, we're out on the streets.

1397
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: And again I say, we're out of the streets, something

1398
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: I was for years. But you know, you're out there,

1399
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: you're talking to people, you're developing sources, and it's it's

1400
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: not easy. I mean, it's it's not easy to get

1401
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: somebody to do something, especially in organized crime venue, to

1402
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: get them to talk to you when their nature is

1403
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: not to talk to you. And everybody, you know, human

1404
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 1: nature is very unique. Some people might be mad at somebody.

1405
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: They'll give you information, or they might want money or

1406
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 1: revenge or whatever, and they use those tools in your

1407
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 1: tool bag to get these people to talk to you.

1408
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: And when you're out there dealing with these people, and

1409
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: then if the apartment of Justice. They don't care. So

1410
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? You know, again, you're

1411
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: sitting there at some people. Somebody might get killed, they

1412
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 1: might get beaten up. I had one source that was

1413
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: that was shot and killed, all right. He was he

1414
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: was in a hotel room. I don't know who did it,

1415
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: but they talked about it from other sources and he said, yeah,

1416
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: we've got this guy, you know. And I couldn't put

1417
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: a case together, you know. He was shot right in

1418
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: the heart in the hotel room. And it still affects me.

1419
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: And I saw the man dead there, you know, and

1420
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: it really bothers me. And the guy was a family guy,

1421
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: and he was a guy who had the ticket operation.

1422
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: He was a bookmaker too, you know. He did all

1423
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff with a Colombo family and he had

1424
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: a great family, a nice wife, the kids, I met

1425
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: them and stuff. And then the man's dead now, you know,

1426
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: and it's it's really it gets upsetting. But when you

1427
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: have the Department of Justice and there they put a

1428
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: wall down. A lot of these people they don't have compassion.

1429
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: They don't understand what you're doing out on the streets.

1430
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: And now you're a repute. I have a reputation. I

1431
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: had a reputation out there. I was a good guy

1432
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: who do always do the right thing. You know, something

1433
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: you were saying earlier brought another question to my mind.

1434
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: You were talking about civil libertarians and kind of the

1435
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: line between people having their personal privacy and freedom and

1436
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: you guys or what you you did do? Having to

1437
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 1: watch over that. Now in today's um society, we've had

1438
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: a lot of these lone wolf attacks where people find

1439
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: out on Facebook. You know, if you look at the

1440
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: San Bernardino shooting that these guys were radicalized, and people say,

1441
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 1: why why didn't we do anything? When they're posting all

1442
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: this stuff about in some cases radical Islam in some

1443
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: cases other some other radical ideology. Where is the line

1444
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 1: on that where you know, someone gets a knock on

1445
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: their door because they're posting something completely insane on Facebook,

1446
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: and you know, we could get someone out of commission

1447
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 1: before they actually go through with an act like that. Well,

1448
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: that's that's the problem. You'd be violating people's rights when

1449
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: he's going to monitor him. But if they're posting out

1450
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: on Facebook, you know, the FBI can't be everywhere, and

1451
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 1: that's the problem. You have million people, how many members.

1452
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: There's not that many FBI agents, really actual badged agents.

1453
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,600
Speaker 1: There's not very many. I don't know, I might be

1454
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: around tops ten thousand all across the world. When I

1455
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: came in, it was five thousand of them of us,

1456
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, and that that was very very few. So

1457
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: when I finally became an FBI agents, oh my gosh,

1458
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm only one of five thousand, you know, throughout the

1459
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: whole world. But what they did was when Louis Free

1460
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,440
Speaker 1: became director, he ended up putting UH league ats leevelutches

1461
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: and put FBI and all the all the different embassies

1462
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: throughout the world. So because he knew terrorism was going

1463
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: to start the perk up and he was way ahead

1464
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: of the curve on that. So when you look at it,

1465
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: you know obviously Facebook, and this is what the problem

1466
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: is with the libertarians and stuff. I mean, we look

1467
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: at Apple when we're trying to get the information from

1468
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 1: the terrorists, they co operated zero. They would not give

1469
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: us information. So the FBI had to go to a hacker.

1470
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: From what I understand, they paid the guy a million

1471
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: dollars to hack into the phone so you can get

1472
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 1: all the data. And that's the that's the problem. Here.

1473
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: You know, when you look at you know, Facebook, they're

1474
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: not cooperative like you really think they should be, because

1475
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: the FBI is not just looking at everybody they have

1476
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: problem cause they they have a reason to think that

1477
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: something is happening. They're not just going after Joe Schmoe

1478
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: for this for the sake of going after him. You know,

1479
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: I gotta waste your time with that. So somebody obviously

1480
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: made might have made a phone call. So hey, you

1481
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: gotta look at this guy. You look at the postings,

1482
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: and you know, you want to find account information and

1483
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: then overly cooperates. The gotta get court orders. I mean,

1484
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: it takes a long time, and by that time, that

1485
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: guy could be out committing Hannah's heineous acts, you know,

1486
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: killing people. You know, just like the last week, I

1487
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: think it was mostly revolving around Twitter actually, but there's

1488
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: this big consternation like how come Twitter has no problem

1489
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 1: being able to censor a group like ISIS or al Qaeda,

1490
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: but they can't censor white nationalists. And I mean the

1491
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: people just don't understand that they are these legal distinctions,

1492
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: like ISIS is on the Foreign Terrorist Organization lists, there

1493
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 1: are foreign entity there on the FTO like, fuck them.

1494
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: They don't have any rights. Americans, even Americans who express

1495
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: ideas we really disagree with and we really don't like,

1496
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: like white supremacists, there are American citizens. They have legal protections.

1497
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between two. Well, that's the whole thing.

1498
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: You know, when you're in law enforcement. They drill that

1499
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: into you when you go into the academy and every

1500
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: day when you're dealing with the U. S. Attorney's Office.

1501
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: You don't want to violate anybody's rights. And that's what

1502
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: I always I kind of joke a little bit about

1503
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: organized crime. They have no rules. You know, they go

1504
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: out and do whatever they want. Terrorists have no rules,

1505
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 1: But law enforcement have rules. You have guidelines, and we

1506
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 1: don't go out and violate people's rights. And I know

1507
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 1: there are all these conspiracy theories that the FBI is

1508
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff and you know your phones are

1509
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,799
Speaker 1: clicking or whatever. They don't. They don't have that ability.

1510
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: Believe me when I tell you that it doesn't happen.

1511
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: So I gotta tell you something that that kind of

1512
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: ties into this. Uh. I worked with a guy I

1513
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: won't I won't mention his name. Um in one of

1514
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: my earlier gigs who um was like a huge fan

1515
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: of Fight Club and I guess he had some bad

1516
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: instance at an Apple store in New York City. On

1517
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: his Facebook page, he wrote his name which I won't say,

1518
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's out there, but might walk into an

1519
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: Apple store and Fifth Avenue within a mary light a

1520
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: R ten gas powered semi automatic weapon and pump around

1521
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,520
Speaker 1: after around into one of those smug, fruity little concierges,

1522
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: which he paraphrased from Fight Club, and you know, some

1523
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: agency came to his door. He get a knock and

1524
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 1: they looked into it. You know, ultimately he got off

1525
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: because they realized there was no real threat there. But

1526
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: it was just so insane to me that this guy

1527
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: went to court over this and he's like, I'm a

1528
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: disabled Army veteran. You know this is not what I

1529
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: fought for. You don't fucking write that on Facebook. I

1530
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: don't care who you are. I don't I don't care

1531
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: that you were an army veteran. You know. I thought

1532
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: it was such a lame excuse. And then you know,

1533
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: NPR did a piece on this guy and it was

1534
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 1: very sympathetic towards him. And I'm not sympathetic towards him

1535
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:30,560
Speaker 1: in the least, you don't write that you're threatening to

1536
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: kill civilians. I mean, he's like, but but it was

1537
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: a movie quote. Well, we don't know the context of that, right,

1538
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: And you don't say that's the problem. You don't know

1539
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: where these people are really coming from. You don't know

1540
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: the background. So when you see something like that, what

1541
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: if they didn't go and talk to him and he

1542
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: did kill a bunch of people, and then we'd be

1543
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: looking at you. Why didn't you do anything? Exactly you

1544
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: knew this was happening, you didn't do anything. So at

1545
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 1: least they address it. You know, common sense in life

1546
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: goes a long way, and some of these people do

1547
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: not have any common sense. And why would you host

1548
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: something like that? Why do I swat teams coming up

1549
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 1: my door? I fought for this country and you can't

1550
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: use that as an excuse for that type of behavior.

1551
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 1: It's like people like I know you've heard it Ian

1552
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: people who call up to like Howard Stern and start

1553
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: talking about killing the president. Yeah, and you know Howard's like, yeah,

1554
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: you you can't say that, man, Like well, that type

1555
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean, we've had some crazy stuff when

1556
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: I worked on Willcow and you know, we had to

1557
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 1: dump that type of stuff. That's why you have the

1558
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: eight seconds away. Um. You know, even on shows that

1559
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: are uncensored, they have it because you could curse on

1560
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 1: that show. But you can't go on air and threatening

1561
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 1: to kill someone. You know, you have to dump that

1562
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 1: type of thing. And and you don't know when someone

1563
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: is being humorous and so when someone is not. Remember

1564
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: OPI and Anthony a few years back got suspended from

1565
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 1: x uh what was x M at the time for

1566
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,759
Speaker 1: the merger because they had a homeless guy in studio

1567
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: and he said he wanted to rape Condoleeza Rice, you know,

1568
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: and the whole argument was like, is this is this

1569
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: free speech? And they were saying, well, you know, when

1570
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: is a homeless guy going to get the uh, you know,

1571
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: opportunity to rape the best defense, you know, but that's

1572
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: a threat. So it works for the administration and you

1573
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: can't say things like that. And you know, I'm sure

1574
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: they're thinking that this is funny, you know, let's say

1575
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,719
Speaker 1: they're kind of comics and stuff. But that's the problem.

1576
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,680
Speaker 1: You know, now the tenor of the times now, you

1577
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: just don't know where people are coming from so you

1578
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 1: have to, you know, really be cautious. You don't want

1579
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 1: to violate people's rights, but you have to make sure

1580
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: that you have the due diligence and you do the

1581
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: right thing. We're in a world where school shootings are happening,

1582
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: crazy place violence. Yeah, it's really a shame that the

1583
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 1: country is. I think there's so many people now, I mean,

1584
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: you have all three fifty million people. I always looked

1585
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: at it. There was always there's always a certain amount

1586
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: of insane people per per one people. You have three

1587
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: fifty million people. There's a lot of crazy people walking

1588
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: out there. And if you look at what happened, you know,

1589
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: back in the days, we used to have Pilgrim State Hospital.

1590
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: A lot of these people are putting into institutions. Then

1591
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: you have the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

1592
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, creed More. They did

1593
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 1: a study on that and all that stuff was done.

1594
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: Now these people are out in the streets, they have

1595
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: no place to go, and then you get into social

1596
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: media and you don't know what's gonna happen. I mean,

1597
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: they don't take that medication. There's people doing shootings and

1598
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 1: broadcasting it on Facebook Live. I mean, and I think

1599
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,480
Speaker 1: the goal of many of these people is to become immortal,

1600
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: to become famous. They have nothing else to live for.

1601
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: And with the current climate, you can become more famous

1602
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: than ever now for committing a heinous act of working

1603
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: hard from nine to five that your entire life. Yeah,

1604
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Hinckley, you know, they just I mean,

1605
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 1: band was insane, trying to kill Reagan and stuff, you know,

1606
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 1: and just these people act on their impulses and they

1607
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: can't stop. And the man they was insane for a

1608
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: long time. You know. I think it's worse today with

1609
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: with the Internet, with social media, that that these people

1610
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: are in a sense committing copycat crimes that they see

1611
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 1: someone else doing. Like oh yeah, that's absolutely because you know,

1612
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: now it's out there, they can you can look up

1613
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: anything and you can see actual visual visual representations of

1614
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 1: what these people did, and they get you know, these

1615
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: people who you know have mental issues, and they look

1616
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: at and say, I could do that. You know, I'll

1617
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: be famous. I'll show them, you know type of thing.

1618
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: You know what, This might have been a better question

1619
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,760
Speaker 1: for someone like Dan Bongino, who was Secret Service that

1620
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 1: we had on, But I'm wondering your take on it.

1621
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: With the last two presidents in particular. You know, you

1622
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: have Barack Obama, who is the first black president. There's

1623
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: plenty of white supremacist activity out there. Donald Trump is

1624
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: hated by all types of groups. How many you know,

1625
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: serious death threats to the president do you think intelligence

1626
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: has towards it. I think they have dozens and dozens

1627
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: for both, you know, and these people, you know, they

1628
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 1: get so incensed, and especially with the media, and there's

1629
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: not much so much um um material that's out there

1630
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: through the Internet. These people access it and they get

1631
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 1: all worked up over it, you know. I mean both

1632
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,919
Speaker 1: presidents were pretty divisive, even stuff that's not true exactly,

1633
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: and they believe this stuff, you know, and people post

1634
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: things that you know that this is the truth and

1635
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: what you know, this is what happened, and when when

1636
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,640
Speaker 1: in fact it's not even close to being reminds me

1637
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 1: of like that Pizza Gate thing where the guy with

1638
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 1: a with a rifle shows up at a pizza party

1639
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:00,080
Speaker 1: or a pizza parlor in DC because he thinks the

1640
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: Democrats are running like pedophile parties or some crazy shit.

1641
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 1: In investment, It's like you know, just think anybody can

1642
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: post anything and that's the scary part, and people will

1643
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: will believe it. Yeah, I mean, we've discussed it. This

1644
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 1: is why the families of the Sandy Hook victims, of

1645
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,680
Speaker 1: those children are suing Alex Jones, because they, you know,

1646
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,719
Speaker 1: felt there were threats on their lives from him coming

1647
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: out there. There was one guy who was a part

1648
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: of the family who started an organization to kind of

1649
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: take down the speech, the conspiracy stuff out there about

1650
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 1: the Sandy Hook families being actors and it being a

1651
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: hoax and watching that, uh what what would you call it?

1652
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: The disposition the deposition Alex with Alexe Jones, the thing

1653
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: that was that stood out in particular because I actually

1654
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: wanted to learn more about, you know, why they were

1655
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 1: suing him in particular. But so one of these guys

1656
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: started an organization to get rid of this type of

1657
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: speech out there on the internet, but he was not

1658
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 1: public about who was. And Alex Jones went out there

1659
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: and gave this guy's po box number on the air,

1660
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: revealing his identity. And the lawyer questioning Alex Jones was saying,

1661
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't this mean that one of your fans

1662
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 1: who might be mentally ill or something could wait outside

1663
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 1: the po box and possibly shoot this guy. I mean,

1664
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,760
Speaker 1: there are serious things out there. To some people, this

1665
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: is just a guy giving out, you know, using his

1666
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:24,680
Speaker 1: free speech. But to other people this could um there

1667
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: could be a death involved in in someone that they

1668
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: believe is involved in some crazy conspiracy theory. There's a

1669
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: lot of mentally ill people out there consuming media. And Uh,

1670
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 1: it's weird because I am a true believer in one

1671
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 1: understand free speech at the same time that I would

1672
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: say that does cross the line of free speech when

1673
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: it could involve I don't know. There just has to

1674
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 1: be I guess the way I would put it in there,

1675
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 1: there has to be some responsibility of what you put

1676
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: out there, knowing that there are people who could consume

1677
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: what you're putting out there and believing whatever you're saying

1678
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: and want revenge for whatever it is you're putting out there. Well,

1679
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, civility is going by the wayside, you know,

1680
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,799
Speaker 1: and the people that they're faceless entities behind a keyboard

1681
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 1: and they feel that they could say whatever they want

1682
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: and go after him and like an Alex Jones or whatever. Again,

1683
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 1: use some common sense. Whatever you say and do can

1684
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 1: affect other people's lives that people could die, get are

1685
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: injured or whatever. But it seems to be less control,

1686
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, I grew up back in

1687
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 1: the in the fifties and sixties. You respected people, you know,

1688
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: even go on their property and all that kind of stuff.

1689
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: Everybody had your own little lane and everything. Nowadays, you know,

1690
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: they don't mind getting in your face. And they're doing

1691
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,919
Speaker 1: all things on the internet and saying horrible things and rumors.

1692
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: And look at the kids at school. I mean, I

1693
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 1: mean kids have been committing suicide because they've picked on

1694
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: all through the internet and everything. This is horrible and

1695
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: because and that's just immature activities. And these these kids

1696
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: have been killing themselves because the statements of other people,

1697
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: and they get ganged up on and where they're gonna go?

1698
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: What are they gonna do? People just say these things

1699
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: on on the internet or on social media, and they

1700
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 1: think there aren't any consequences of exactly know, they don't

1701
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: think through how it impacts other people, right absolutely, especially

1702
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: you know in what you're talking about, you know, a twelve, thirteen,

1703
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,719
Speaker 1: fourteen year old kid, they obviously take things a little

1704
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 1: differently than a grown man. Yeah, you know, their brains

1705
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 1: aren't developed yet, they don't the common sense is out

1706
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: the window. And then you know, they just they do things,

1707
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, and then very impulsive and it could be

1708
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 1: very negative. You know. As I said, he's here all

1709
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: the time. And remember there was one case where one

1710
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,719
Speaker 1: of the girls mothers was actually uh tweeting and texting

1711
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: about this kid. You know, she was ugly, remember that,

1712
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 1: and the girl committed suicide and the mother was involved

1713
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 1: with it. You know, I mean, just crazy stuff. I

1714
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: mean this, this is a breakdown of society. Really when

1715
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 1: you look at this type of stuff, you know, where's

1716
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 1: the respect, you know, and that's that's the one thing.

1717
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 1: And then law enforcement, you know, we really go out,

1718
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: you know and try to respect everybody, respect their rights

1719
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 1: and do the right thing. And and you want if

1720
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 1: we always did it. If you're gonna do a case,

1721
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it right. They're no shortcuts. And I

1722
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,719
Speaker 1: remember the report. I asked me one day about Sunny Frenzies.

1723
01:21:58,760 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 1: He said, you know, do you think he was really

1724
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 1: set up with his bank robbery? And I said, listen,

1725
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 1: I've been around for forty four years. I have never

1726
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 1: seen anybody frame somebody because you couldn't get him on

1727
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: other other charges, you know what I'm saying. So either

1728
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: we get him right and do it the right way,

1729
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: or you don't do it and you get beat a lot,

1730
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, just you can't make cases and

1731
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,120
Speaker 1: it's happened. You know. Have you ever thought about going

1732
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 1: through your old case files, maybe interviewing some of these

1733
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 1: mobsters and writing about it. Absolutely, Um, there's two guys

1734
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 1: I want to interview and talk to it. I want

1735
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 1: to Victorina just got out of jail, I understand, and

1736
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: there's other fellow, Dennis Pappas, who was the lawyer. And

1737
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 1: do you think they would be cool like sitting down

1738
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 1: having a beer. I could think, you know, as my understanding,

1739
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: as Victorina became a preacher in jail, so there might

1740
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 1: be a shot there. So I was going to write

1741
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 1: him the next thing I know, he's he's out of jail,

1742
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: so we'll see what happens. Because I've had so many

1743
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: unique experiences with these guys. I mean, not many people

1744
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 1: worked organized crime like I didn't had the cases and

1745
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 1: especially the Columbo War, and you know how everything transpired,

1746
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: and you know, there was all kinds of crazy accusation

1747
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 1: aations about this fellow um AN agent, Linda Vecchio, that

1748
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: he was on the mob's side, and was. I mean

1749
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: it was. It got really nasty there for a while.

1750
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: It was horrible, And I just made sure no matter

1751
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: what I did, I stayed in my lane. I stayed

1752
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 1: true to the case and did everything the right way

1753
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 1: to cut any corner. So I knew I'd never have

1754
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: a problem with anything. But you know that the informants

1755
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: are really they're very, very tricky. They're double edged sword. Um,

1756
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:26,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a source that he gives you great information,

1757
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: but next thing you know, you don't know if he's

1758
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: going back to the mob and say, you know, they're

1759
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: gonna put a bug in you got social club. And

1760
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 1: I think that happened to me a couple of times,

1761
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: once in particular, and um this guy named Scarpa was

1762
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: a source. He ended up he was involved in the

1763
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 1: columbu where he was killing people all over the place,

1764
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 1: and he was a source. And I'm almost positive he

1765
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 1: was one guy who was asked and I was going

1766
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: to put a bug in the social club. Next thing

1767
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, they ripped the entire social club, apart and

1768
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: they put an apartment in there. Something happened, you know,

1769
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 1: and that tells me something happened with the guy um

1770
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 1: as I said, a double edged sword. And that's why

1771
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 1: you have to be You don't take a gift from

1772
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: these guys. You don't socialize with them, you don't hang out,

1773
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: you don't go out with their families, you don't go

1774
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 1: to weddings, you know, as friends or whatever. You just

1775
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 1: it's a business, uh position, and you just do everything

1776
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: in the right way and you'll never have a problem.

1777
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: And that when I go to bed at night, I

1778
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 1: put my head on the pillow because I know I

1779
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: did the best I could every single day. I treated

1780
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 1: these guys with respect, and I did the best I

1781
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 1: could with all the information that we had, and we

1782
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: got a lot of guys the right way. And I'm

1783
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 1: very thankful for that, and you know, good time doing

1784
01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 1: it and very unique experiences for sure. I just I

1785
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: would love to be a fly on the walls. Uh see,

1786
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 1: if you ever, like, sit down have a drink with

1787
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 1: some of these guys. And I'm just curious that there

1788
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: would be like some mutual respect or if they'd be

1789
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 1: like I mean, I could understand if they hold a grudge,

1790
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, if you threw, you threw them in the slammer. Yeah,

1791
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:52,360
Speaker 1: but I didn't do the illegal activities. Yeah, yeah, tell people,

1792
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sorry. I mean they made their choice,

1793
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: you made yours. You know. It's almost like the old

1794
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:00,759
Speaker 1: game of Cops and Roberts, Ye of the bad guys,

1795
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 1: and it's our job to go chase him and and

1796
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 1: get him and get him right, you know. And you know,

1797
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: they fought the best they could in court and everything else,

1798
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: and you know, and they were judged by twelve members

1799
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: of the appears, and they were convicted. And that's that's it.

1800
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 1: They had many bites of the apple, and you know

1801
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:18,519
Speaker 1: it's actually in your your favorite you know, you can.

1802
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: All you have to do is convince one juror that

1803
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 1: you know it's not right. And what they did, they

1804
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 1: convicted him, and that that's it. You know. I'm curious

1805
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: what you think some solutions are of what needs to

1806
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 1: be done at the FBI right now, because we've pointed

1807
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: out a lot of things that are going wrong. How

1808
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: can we turn this around? I think the new director,

1809
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 1: from the information I have, he's doing the right things.

1810
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:42,360
Speaker 1: He's changed all the upper management, Um, all those people

1811
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:46,600
Speaker 1: that were involved in in the that the investigation with

1812
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,759
Speaker 1: the struck and all all those people were all gone.

1813
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 1: So we had to put some good, responsible people in there.

1814
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 1: And I don't know who they are in particular because

1815
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 1: I haven't really followed up on things that I've heard.

1816
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 1: He's put in great people in leadership, and um, he's

1817
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,400
Speaker 1: righting the ship, you know. And when you look, you know,

1818
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,160
Speaker 1: I think the rest of the stories you have to

1819
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: be written about the uh the do ci A and

1820
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 1: how the case even got started. As I said, when

1821
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:13,400
Speaker 1: I did wire taps and uh Affi David's, I made

1822
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 1: sure I was right down the line and I everything

1823
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,120
Speaker 1: was factual at best of my ability. I did everything

1824
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 1: in the right way. When you look at you hear

1825
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: the stuff about how they did this, it's disconcerting, you know.

1826
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: And then again these silly tests, text messages got out,

1827
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: you know, between the two or whatever. I just I've

1828
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 1: never seen that in my life. As I said, I've

1829
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:35,679
Speaker 1: been around the FBI for forty four years. I never

1830
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 1: saw that. And we don't and we're in the office,

1831
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 1: we don't talk politics. Doesn't happen. These people are mission

1832
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 1: oriented you know, obviously not the military. But you know,

1833
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: these guys, everybody does their job and they have fun

1834
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 1: doing it. They you know, they engage each other and

1835
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: talking like a regular like a family, and that's what

1836
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: they call it, the FBI family. And we respect one

1837
01:26:56,439 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 1: another and they do the cases. But I have never

1838
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: seen anybody ever talk politics, text politics, hate presidents or

1839
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,679
Speaker 1: anything like that. You know, you always kept that inside

1840
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: your professional side. You just did your job. Between that

1841
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 1: and what was going on with the UH the who

1842
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 1: was the security manager for the Senate Select Committee on

1843
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 1: Intelligence UH talking to reporters and clearly had a political bias.

1844
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, you're right, it's disconcerting. It should never

1845
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: happen that stuff. I know, the reporters, they had jobs

1846
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 1: to go out there. It's like develop informance and they're

1847
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: going out to develop their sources as law enforcement to

1848
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 1: find out what's going on and going to the Congress

1849
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 1: or whatever to try to get stories. Well, you know what,

1850
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories that really don't should not

1851
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 1: be told, you know, for the general public, because you

1852
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:44,600
Speaker 1: know it's it's secret information and trying to do the

1853
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 1: right thing and the stuff that comes out, you know,

1854
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 1: you're actually breaking down our our society by giving that

1855
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: information out. And you know, some of it could be

1856
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 1: vitle and good, but other stuff because you have a

1857
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 1: political agenda. I don't care what your agenda is. You

1858
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: just do your job and do it the right way,

1859
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: and then when you're done with your service, you walk away.

1860
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 1: And that's why I think it's upsetting that called Me's

1861
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,759
Speaker 1: out there doing what he's doing, tweeting and writing books

1862
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,599
Speaker 1: and doing all that stuff. Just you had your turn,

1863
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 1: you swong, and you hit the ball a couple of

1864
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,640
Speaker 1: times and you missed, and then you go on, just

1865
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 1: go and live your life. You know, when when Comey

1866
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 1: was I think he was tweeting out pictures of like

1867
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 1: him with the Wou Tang clan. That was the moment

1868
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, this guy has fallen in

1869
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: love with himself with He's fallen in love with his

1870
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: own legend where we're off the rails, and I know

1871
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 1: I have friends that you know like him. He was

1872
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 1: a prosecutor in in New York at one time, and

1873
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 1: he was very highly respected, very likable guy. I mean

1874
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 1: he walks into a room. You know, he's so tall,

1875
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: like six ten or something is quite a presence, and

1876
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: all my friends teld me that the guy was a

1877
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: great guy, and then I don't know what happened. You know.

1878
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 1: It's one thing we talked about when people go down

1879
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 1: to headquarters, he gets kind of like a lobotomy type

1880
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: of thing because he's a lot of the management there.

1881
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 1: They're not real long term and best degators that understand

1882
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:04,160
Speaker 1: the streets and how it goes cases. A lot of

1883
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: the people do three to five years out on the

1884
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: streets and they go up in management and they go

1885
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 1: down to headquarters. The same with Brennan. I mean, he

1886
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,080
Speaker 1: was a case officer for a hot minute and then

1887
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: spent the rest of his time as a bureaucrat. And

1888
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 1: that's the problem. You can't have bureaucrats that haven't really

1889
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,679
Speaker 1: done the job. I'd rather see somebody with ten, twelve,

1890
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: fifteen years worth of experience out on the streets then

1891
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: getting down to management down in Washington, because they understand

1892
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: what it takes to get the job done. They understand

1893
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: how it is to work. And a difficult as you

1894
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: have with the Department of Justice to try to get

1895
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:35,120
Speaker 1: cases pushed forward. I can't tell you the battles that

1896
01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:37,640
Speaker 1: I had with these people who was unbelievable. Just to

1897
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 1: be objective here though, you know, as you're saying there,

1898
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 1: there's a lot of firsts in terms of what's going

1899
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 1: on with the FBI right now, the information being put

1900
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:47,640
Speaker 1: out there the other side of that coin, and I'm

1901
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: sure there's people listening thinking it is. This is also

1902
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 1: the first time we've had a president publicly go out

1903
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 1: there and criticized the FBI on his Twitter and say

1904
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 1: a lot of things that that are pretty outraged and

1905
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 1: ask you know, hackers, talked about how great wiki leaks is.

1906
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 1: You know some things that we haven't seen before. You

1907
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: know what, if you if you really look at Donald Trump,

1908
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 1: who he is. The man was a construction icon in

1909
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:12,600
Speaker 1: New York. He had to deal with the mob, he

1910
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:14,720
Speaker 1: had to deal with labor units. He's a tough guy.

1911
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,719
Speaker 1: He's a street guy, and somehow he gets elected president

1912
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:21,479
Speaker 1: of the United States. And that's who he is. I mean,

1913
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 1: he had to he has to fight a lot of battles.

1914
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:26,680
Speaker 1: He had all kinds of lawsuits everything else. And I'm

1915
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 1: not justifying what he's doing. What I'm saying he's a

1916
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: street brawler, and it's we've never had a street or

1917
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: brawler as a president of the United States, and he

1918
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 1: believes what he believes. And you know, I really think

1919
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 1: when he was doing those speeches that he was joking,

1920
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, release that stuff. You know, I think it

1921
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 1: was more ingest than anything else. But you know, your

1922
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 1: words have consequences to you know. And it's the big

1923
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:50,640
Speaker 1: thing is when he came in that's not presidential. You

1924
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,599
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be saying that type of thing, you know,

1925
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 1: But but this is who the man is. He's a

1926
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 1: street brawler, and you take it to him, he's going

1927
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: to go after you. And I mean of them could

1928
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 1: criticize it, but it's what got him elected absolutely. You know.

1929
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: I remember that famous thing during the debates of Jeff

1930
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 1: Bush saying, you know, Donald, you're not going to criticize

1931
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 1: your way to the presidency or insult your way to

1932
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 1: the presidency. And he did. Yeah, I think America got

1933
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,640
Speaker 1: really tired of the same old thing the years and

1934
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 1: years through in that and out they see the Congress

1935
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 1: that's not doing their their their job properly, and they

1936
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: called it the swamp, which there's no doubt about it.

1937
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 1: You know, when you look, you know, you know again

1938
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 1: we talk politics now, you know, term limits are a

1939
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: great incentive for these people to do the right thing.

1940
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 1: These people been in Congress thirty years, they're eighty years old,

1941
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: they've been there forever. Their institutionals, uh and institution They

1942
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 1: sent Trump as a wrecking ball exactly, And that was

1943
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: my point I was going to make. He came in,

1944
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: he goes, look, this is a this is a mess

1945
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 1: down here. I'm gonna do the best I canna straighten

1946
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:49,800
Speaker 1: it out. And that's why they put a brawler in there.

1947
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 1: And I forget what right has said. You know, the

1948
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:57,639
Speaker 1: Republicans and the Conservatives always like they go to these

1949
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 1: battles and they talk a little bit, but the Democrats

1950
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 1: come out with knives and they attack and they make

1951
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: all kinds of accusations, you're racist, you're doing all this stuff. Well,

1952
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 1: he's the first guy that's come in and said, well,

1953
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 1: you guys are the bad guys. You know, you're the

1954
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: ones that are ruining the country. And that's his opinion,

1955
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: you know, And he's a brawler and they're not used

1956
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:17,599
Speaker 1: to that, and they can't take it. And that's why

1957
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 1: there's so so much discourse now because how dare you

1958
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: come after the institutions and everything else. You know, Uh,

1959
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 1: look at Lindsey Graham, you know, my my friends on

1960
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 1: the other side, but meanwhile they hate each other, you

1961
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 1: know that, you know, and he keeps on calling them

1962
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: the friends and things like that. You know, but that's

1963
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 1: collegial activities that you know that you should be basically

1964
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: nice to him and put your point across and try

1965
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: to get votes and pass legislation. But it's gotten so

1966
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 1: vicious at this point. It's really it's really scary. Yeah,

1967
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:46,160
Speaker 1: and I don't know how you turn the clock back

1968
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:49,479
Speaker 1: on that. I mean, jeez, term limits, that's you know,

1969
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 1: that's the way I look at it, because you know what,

1970
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: these guys know, they're going to be elected time and

1971
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: time again. I could say whatever I want. We could

1972
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 1: force you know, our our opinions on people and things

1973
01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:59,879
Speaker 1: like that, and get to be like the Harry Reids,

1974
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 1: you know, we're just there forever and they you know,

1975
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 1: and as if you look at these guys, you know,

1976
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: I forgot who wrote the book throw them all out.

1977
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: I think it was it was all the inside dealings

1978
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:13,240
Speaker 1: that they're doing in Congress. That these guys that when

1979
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,280
Speaker 1: they leave their multimillion yeah, Well, Harry reads a good

1980
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 1: example exactly exactly. You know the story I heard that

1981
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,639
Speaker 1: you bought property and Nevada and they put a railroad

1982
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: through there and he made multimillions. You know. This is

1983
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 1: stuff that shouldn't happen, you know, And that's why I

1984
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:29,200
Speaker 1: think if you really did have term limits, people will

1985
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:31,639
Speaker 1: be more. You know, like you do your service in

1986
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: the in the in the military or the FBI, and

1987
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:35,720
Speaker 1: then you go and live your life, you know, and

1988
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:38,200
Speaker 1: that's going there's it's an honorable thing to do service

1989
01:33:38,240 --> 01:33:40,760
Speaker 1: for our country, to legislat and things like that. Do

1990
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:42,719
Speaker 1: your time, and that's why I think it was designed

1991
01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:44,920
Speaker 1: by the founding fathers. Do your time there, do the

1992
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 1: best you can, and then go on with your life.

1993
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: I know we've we've taken up a lot of your time.

1994
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:51,040
Speaker 1: But there's one thing I did want to ask. I

1995
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 1: don't know if Ian has anything, but one other thing

1996
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 1: I did want to ask before we let you go

1997
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 1: is um about how Hillary Clinton was handled with the

1998
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: private email server. And I think a lot of us

1999
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:07,880
Speaker 1: were surprised that she got off clean on that when

2000
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean, just tell you my opinion. I think that

2001
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 1: when I was in the Army. If I had a

2002
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 1: private email server in my basement and I was had

2003
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,120
Speaker 1: classified information going through there, I'm pretty sure I would

2004
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: be in Leavenworth for thirty five years at least. You

2005
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:24,759
Speaker 1: kind of answered your own question. Yeah, all right, because

2006
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 1: especially when I was on a foreign counter intelligence side,

2007
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 1: and she's been around the block quite a few times, right,

2008
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 1: she was senator, she was um and involved the government.

2009
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 1: She knows what secret, top secret, classified information is. We're

2010
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:44,080
Speaker 1: all apprized of that when you go in the first

2011
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: day you sit down, you told about all these different categories,

2012
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 1: and her in the State Department, she knew exactly what's what.

2013
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,240
Speaker 1: And it's quite obviously again I'm only going by what

2014
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 1: the reports are. She set that server up because she

2015
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 1: didn't want her information to get out there. She didn't

2016
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: want for you to request exactly exactly. And the thing

2017
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 1: is they even said that they found emails from the

2018
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 1: President Obama going on on that server. When they did

2019
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:09,639
Speaker 1: get whatever the emails they did get, that's a problem,

2020
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 1: all right. So she knew she was not supposed to

2021
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 1: be considered privileged information, like right off the bat, we

2022
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:19,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't even know that absolutely. So this is I think

2023
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:21,680
Speaker 1: what Comy. Did I think he felt she was going

2024
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: to be president and he didn't want to go away

2025
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: after her. But I have never seen anything like this

2026
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: before in my life. Okay, as I said, before, the

2027
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 1: FBI investigates, the o J prosecutes, Okay, for um Lynch

2028
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:36,960
Speaker 1: to go to Comey and say, well, you make this

2029
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 1: the announcement and decision. This was controlled by the Department

2030
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 1: of Justice. There's no way Hillary Clinton should have had

2031
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 1: a server wherever and have classified information and said, when

2032
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 1: I was on the foreign counter intelligence side, if I

2033
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 1: did that or send emails, we have what's called stew

2034
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:57,799
Speaker 1: phones and scrambled uh you have UM internal communications UM Internet,

2035
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 1: intronnet and everything else. What she would what she did

2036
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 1: from what I understand from the from all the reportings,

2037
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:08,200
Speaker 1: she had phones, iPads and the server and they're all connected.

2038
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:11,400
Speaker 1: When she walked into uh, into a Russian embassy, you

2039
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:13,800
Speaker 1: talk to anybody, I guarantee you they got everything that's

2040
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 1: on her phone. They got everything that was on her

2041
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: iPad because they were not UM. They were not UM

2042
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,760
Speaker 1: what they call it. They weren't coded, they weren't were

2043
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 1: encoded and whatever. They can get that information just by

2044
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: walking into a building, and that's a scary part. So

2045
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: god knows what information they really got. And that server

2046
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:34,840
Speaker 1: was not protected, one could have gotten into it. They did,

2047
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:36,800
Speaker 1: and they gave the guy who ran at the I

2048
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 1: T guy got immunity. Yeah, but that's the crazy thing

2049
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 1: about it. When you see to do a regular case,

2050
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 1: you don't grant immunity all across the board. I mean,

2051
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 1: you grant immunity in exchange for testimony exact. There's like

2052
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 1: that's how it works. You're coughing up everything will give

2053
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 1: you a immunity. Um, they destroyed the the server, they

2054
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 1: destroyed phones, took SIM cards out when theyre subpoened. That's

2055
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:02,720
Speaker 1: illegal as hell. Yeah, it's obstruction of justice right there. Okay,

2056
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 1: and then you look at you know when Colmy said,

2057
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 1: well she definitely had classified and secret information on on

2058
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 1: the emails. Each one is a violation, you know, it's

2059
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:14,599
Speaker 1: a it's Tile eighteen I think section seven thirty nine.

2060
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 1: And whether it's intentionally or unintentionally, the consequences are there.

2061
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 1: And I really felt that again analyzing this, I think

2062
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 1: he felt she was going to be president. He didn't

2063
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:28,479
Speaker 1: want to. He would have been fired or who knows.

2064
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it would have been a constitutional crisis. You

2065
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 1: gotta have somebody elected and you're gonna charge it with felonies.

2066
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 1: And when we talk about the undermining of institutions, I

2067
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: mean President Trump is a part of that. He has

2068
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:42,599
Speaker 1: undermined institutions for sure. But also when we see things

2069
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:45,559
Speaker 1: like this where the director of the FBI is just

2070
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: essentially blessing off on crimes and not prosecuting in this

2071
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:53,320
Speaker 1: case Hillary Clinton, and that's an undermining of the institution

2072
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:55,680
Speaker 1: in our system of laws. Look, it has to be

2073
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 1: the same equal justice under the law for everybody. And

2074
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 1: they knew what they have. Again, I I never looked

2075
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:03,680
Speaker 1: at this stuff. I don't know personally. I'm just going

2076
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 1: by all the reports based on when he gave that

2077
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:10,880
Speaker 1: that statement that no reasonable prosecutor a prosecutor. My gosh,

2078
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 1: I can't tell you that up there was no precedent.

2079
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 1: He said, there was no intent. The tent is not

2080
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 1: part of the statute. You could reach the statute on part.

2081
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:20,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't say if you intend on doing it, you

2082
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 1: do it on purpose. You know, it says any transmission

2083
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 1: of any communication. If you eve a broefcase full of

2084
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:30,640
Speaker 1: classified documents downstairs and Grand central station. You're responsible for

2085
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 1: the absolutely, you know. And it's and you you know,

2086
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:35,439
Speaker 1: they had that one fellow that was on a nuclear submarine.

2087
01:38:35,439 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 1: He took a picture of his workstation, this is where

2088
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:40,680
Speaker 1: I work. He was in jail, you know, and he

2089
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: got prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and

2090
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 1: he I think it was sentenced to six or nine years.

2091
01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 1: I think Trump commuted the sentence. He got him out

2092
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:50,720
Speaker 1: because it was just he just took a picture and

2093
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 1: they went after him. So you look what she did.

2094
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 1: He was a dumbass, not a criminal. Yeah, absolutely, And

2095
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:57,639
Speaker 1: then you look what she did. You know, she knew

2096
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,360
Speaker 1: what the rules are. Why would you do that asleep?

2097
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: Because you didn't want to for your information to get out? Well,

2098
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 1: that's intent there, so you know you don't do that.

2099
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: And that God knows how much classified information and secret

2100
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 1: information got out to to our adversaries. They haven't even

2101
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 1: addressed that at all, correct, you know. So that's the

2102
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: scary part. So you know, hopefully they'll get to the

2103
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 1: bottom of it, you know, and maybe I don't know

2104
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:22,759
Speaker 1: if they're going to charge you later on or whatever,

2105
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:24,760
Speaker 1: but the right thing was not done. And then I

2106
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 1: don't think, you know, she's a golden child there or whatever.

2107
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:29,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's nothing will happen, but it should be

2108
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 1: noted that you know, she did do this stuff and

2109
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 1: she was she should have been prosecuted. But I think

2110
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 1: one of my friends who knows called me. They said

2111
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: it was like on a fence trying to do a

2112
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:42,759
Speaker 1: tight rope, trying to play both sides, and he couldn't

2113
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 1: do it. And what he did, he made the wrong decision.

2114
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,720
Speaker 1: But maybe in his mind he made the right I mean,

2115
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was in a tough position, and I'll

2116
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: say that, you know, but I wouldn't want to be there,

2117
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 1: you know. And I would have said to Lauretta Lynch,

2118
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,720
Speaker 1: you're the prosecutor, you say it, I'm not. I'm just

2119
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: the investigator with the investigative agency. You don't make prosecute

2120
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 1: of decisions you do. And I would have had the

2121
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 1: Department of Justice do it. It's not his in his

2122
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:08,759
Speaker 1: realm to do that. I don't know if his ego

2123
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 1: why he did that, but it was not the right thing.

2124
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,400
Speaker 1: That he had a responsibility to protect the integrity of

2125
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 1: the bureau. And that exactly because if he would if

2126
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:17,439
Speaker 1: we would have going back to the Department of Justice.

2127
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:20,280
Speaker 1: But they all know that their political pointees a department

2128
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:22,559
Speaker 1: of Justice, you know, so who knows how that would

2129
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:24,599
Speaker 1: have gone. But there's no way he should have given

2130
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 1: that statement at all. And that's that was and it

2131
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,800
Speaker 1: really hurt the FBI. And you know, I tell you,

2132
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:31,680
Speaker 1: I have known so many guys in the FBI. You

2133
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 1: go to we go to golf outings for fundraisers and

2134
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 1: things like that, and you talk to these people. These

2135
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: these people gave their lives, you know, the whole lives

2136
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: to dedicate to law enforcement to do the right thing

2137
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:44,599
Speaker 1: and investigate the right way and make sure the right

2138
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,559
Speaker 1: thing is done. And when you see something like this,

2139
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, where's the equal justice under the law, you know,

2140
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 1: and you've got to do the right thing if and

2141
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,639
Speaker 1: if you don't, why are you there? And that's that's

2142
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:55,080
Speaker 1: the problem that a lot of people have. And I

2143
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 1: guarantee a lot of current agents and support people and

2144
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 1: a lot of retired agents of upset at this whole

2145
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,160
Speaker 1: transformation of what's going on to destroy the FBI's reputation.

2146
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:07,200
Speaker 1: Really bothers a lot of us because we work so

2147
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:09,640
Speaker 1: hard to do the right thing. This has been an

2148
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:12,720
Speaker 1: awesome discussion. Before we wrap up, I'm gonna have the

2149
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 1: text c J. Ramone for sure and thank him for

2150
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:18,800
Speaker 1: getting us in touch with you. I really appreciate it.

2151
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 1: I it's been an honor to come here and talk

2152
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 1: to you folks, and uh, you know, I've had a

2153
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 1: varied experience and it's very nice guys, and real pleasure

2154
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: to sit down here and talking with Yeah, thanks for

2155
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:30,800
Speaker 1: coming in. There's really been amazing. Thank you so much. Yes,

2156
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 1: So before we wrap up, I always like to let

2157
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: you guys know what we have going on here, be

2158
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:37,679
Speaker 1: sure to check out Create Club. It's a club foremen

2159
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Speaker 1: by men of gear, handpicked by special operations veterans. We

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Speaker 1: have the Dash one, Create Pro Create and for those

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Speaker 1: looking for the Holy Grail of gear subscriptions, our Premium Create.

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Speaker 1: all software radio listeners. This is the biggest discount we've

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Speaker 1: That's Create Club dot Us coupon codes soft rep off

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Speaker 1: any gearbox sign up today. Also as a reminder for

2169
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Speaker 1: those listening, now is the time to sign up for

2170
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: the spec Ops Channel, our channel that offers the most

2171
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 1: exclusive shows, documentaries and interviews covering the most exciting military

2172
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 1: content today. The spec Ops channel premier show Training Cell

2173
01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: follows former Special Operations Forces. They participate in the most

2174
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:34,759
Speaker 1: advanced training in the country, everything from shooting schools, defensive driving,

2175
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Speaker 1: jungle and winter warfare, climbing, and a whole lot more. Again,

2176
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:41,840
Speaker 1: you can watch this content by subscribing to the spec

2177
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: Ops Channel at spec ops channel dot com and take

2178
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 1: advantage of a membership for only four ninety nine a month.

2179
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 1: That's spec ops channel dot com. Sign up today. Last,

2180
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:54,200
Speaker 1: if you're not already signed up at the News Rep

2181
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:57,080
Speaker 1: dot com, you've got to get on board expert reporting

2182
01:42:57,080 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 1: and actionable intelligence from your favorite writers you've you've heard

2183
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 1: on here, like Jack Murphy and the many guest writers

2184
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 1: who pop up on there as well. Unlimited access to

2185
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 1: News Rep on any device, Unlimited access to the app,

2186
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:13,599
Speaker 1: joined the war Room community, invitations to our exclusive events,

2187
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Speaker 1: and it's all add free for members. We have a

2188
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Speaker 1: trial offer up right now where you can get four

2189
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Speaker 1: weeks for only one sign up now at the news

2190
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,400
Speaker 1: rep dot com. That's the news rep dot com. By

2191
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 1: the way, for those not in the know, we have

2192
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 1: our own software radio app that you can download for

2193
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 1: free on iPhone or Android, and our homepage as always

2194
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,679
Speaker 1: softwarep radio dot com where you can see our full

2195
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:39,400
Speaker 1: archive shows. Keep up with us at SOFTWAREP Radio. I'm

2196
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:42,320
Speaker 1: gonna get the video up of Ken on our Instagram

2197
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:44,320
Speaker 1: so you can see all that cool stuff. And I

2198
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 1: always post those highlight videos, but this has been great.

2199
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:49,519
Speaker 1: I usually end the show with you know, what do

2200
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 1: you want to plug? But I don't think you have

2201
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:52,639
Speaker 1: anything that you're plug You know, I have no nothing

2202
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 1: to plug at all. I just you know, doing My

2203
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 1: thing is asset fullfiture. And I have a lovely wife

2204
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:59,760
Speaker 1: c J ramone sister, and I have a great life

2205
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 1: going right now. So one day I'll retire, but I'm

2206
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 1: still really enjoy what I'm doing. Um I think I'm

2207
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 1: still doing some positive things for our country. And um,

2208
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, asset forfeiture. Actually, I don't know if I

2209
01:44:10,120 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 1: really explained it. It's taking It started off with the

2210
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: organized crime and that they would go to jail, but

2211
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 1: they still have all their assets when it came back out.

2212
01:44:17,120 --> 01:44:19,599
Speaker 1: But now it turned into the white collar crime side too,

2213
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:22,519
Speaker 1: and these guys it's billions of dollars. So you know,

2214
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: we're getting victims back money that they had stolen from

2215
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 1: them timely. So they get they put in for it

2216
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 1: and they get money back. You know, not not made

2217
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:32,960
Speaker 1: whole a lot of times, but they get a lot

2218
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 1: of money back from as being victims. So that's why

2219
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:38,320
Speaker 1: I would look at houses, cars, bank accounts, and we

2220
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,839
Speaker 1: take that and you know, it really helps out society.

2221
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 1: So it's it's been good. I got another few years

2222
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 1: to go yet with that, so it's been good. It's

2223
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 1: it's important work and I appreciate you coming in. It's funny.

2224
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:50,519
Speaker 1: I just watched a video. There's a clip that one

2225
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:55,120
Speaker 1: of our regulars, UH Navy CEO Eric Davis posted on Instagram, UH,

2226
01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 1: from like a lecture that he gave, and he was

2227
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 1: talking about how all the free and for nation that

2228
01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 1: you get out there, it's it's like an advertisement for

2229
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,680
Speaker 1: something and someone is selling you something. So he's like,

2230
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:08,519
Speaker 1: you know, you have to buy good information because that's

2231
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:10,519
Speaker 1: what you're gonna get. The reason I bring this up

2232
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:13,880
Speaker 1: is because it's not always true not to bash and

2233
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 1: what he said at all. But every now and again

2234
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:17,720
Speaker 1: we get a guy on like you who is not

2235
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:20,720
Speaker 1: pushing a book. You don't have social media. You're just

2236
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: here because you want to get your story out there.

2237
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:25,360
Speaker 1: And it's it's cool because it's unbiased information or I

2238
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 1: mean it's biased from your own perspective, but you know,

2239
01:45:27,400 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 1: you just want the information out there for people to hear,

2240
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 1: and you're really not trying to sell anything. And I

2241
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 1: really appreciate it when guys like you make the effort

2242
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:37,639
Speaker 1: to come in just because you want that information out

2243
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:40,519
Speaker 1: there for the public. And it's been a great you know,

2244
01:45:40,760 --> 01:45:42,880
Speaker 1: almost two hours here. Yeah, it's amazing. I went by

2245
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:44,840
Speaker 1: so fast, you know, I said, I really thank c

2246
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:47,360
Speaker 1: J hooking me up with you guys, and uh, you know,

2247
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:49,479
Speaker 1: it's been a real pleasure. And you know, just we

2248
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 1: try to do a lot of good still even to

2249
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:53,280
Speaker 1: this day. And there there are a lot of people

2250
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:55,280
Speaker 1: out there because he's you know, we look at social

2251
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,360
Speaker 1: media how bad things are every day, and you look

2252
01:45:57,360 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 1: at the news, how horrible, But there are people that

2253
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:01,519
Speaker 1: are fighting, the adults, you know, doing the right thing.

2254
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:04,040
Speaker 1: So I'm going to continue and then keep on going.

2255
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,000
Speaker 1: Maybe I will write that book. I hope you do.

2256
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:08,320
Speaker 1: I hope you will be interesting. Thank you again so

2257
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: much for having me. Really it's a real pleasure. Yeah,

2258
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:14,400
Speaker 1: thank you. You've been listening to self Rep Radio. New

2259
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 1: episodes up every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show on

2260
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:21,439
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at self rep Radio