WEBVTT - The Very Dust, Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 2>name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part two

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<v Speaker 3>in our series on Dust Now. In the last episode,

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<v Speaker 3>we talked about how to define dust. We talked about

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<v Speaker 3>the definition that came from a book that I've been

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<v Speaker 3>reading by an author named Jay Owens, defining dust as

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<v Speaker 3>tiny flying particles. We talked about our wonderful, beautiful, swarming

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<v Speaker 3>invisible domestic companions, the dust mites, and we talked about

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<v Speaker 3>atmospheric dust and its complex relationship to weather and climate.

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<v Speaker 3>And hey, if you hear a little weirdness, little creak,

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<v Speaker 3>little croak in my throat today that may very well

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<v Speaker 3>be caused by dust.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go. Yeah, So into day's episode, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna be talking about dust bunnies a bit here,

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<v Speaker 2>but but not just dust bunnies. Just summoning the specter

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<v Speaker 2>of the dust bunny is enough to diverge into topics

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<v Speaker 2>concerning cosmic horror and and cosmic mysteries. So even though

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<v Speaker 2>the dust bunny is pretty mundane and every day and

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<v Speaker 2>you could probably find one in your home within five

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<v Speaker 2>minutes if we requested it. Stick around because it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>go interesting places.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, based on seeing some reactions to part one

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<v Speaker 3>of this series, that there are some real dust haters

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<v Speaker 3>in our audience, and so we may in fact here

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<v Speaker 3>from listeners who say no, no, no dust bunnies in

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<v Speaker 3>my house. They are there forbidden, and I do not

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<v Speaker 3>allow a single one to form.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, that's it's a very Victorian mindset, as

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<v Speaker 2>we'll discuss here, so I don't think I have to

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<v Speaker 2>tell many of you what a dust bunny is, though,

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<v Speaker 2>as we'll discuss the terminology, there seems to be more

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<v Speaker 2>dominant terminology in different parts of the world, and I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't able to find like a really exhaustive list, so

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<v Speaker 2>certainly I'm hoping to hear from listeners in other countries,

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<v Speaker 2>in other language traditions that have different terms for what

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about here. These are vaguely animal shaped accumulations

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<v Speaker 2>of dust that one tends to find in hard to

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<v Speaker 2>dust places and corners of a home or other interior space.

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<v Speaker 2>A frequent place you may find these is, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>like under the bed, under and behind the dresser, places

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<v Speaker 2>where dust can accumulate for extended periods of time without

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<v Speaker 2>being noticed until you go in there looking for something,

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<v Speaker 2>or going in for a more detailed dusting of the room,

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<v Speaker 2>and you find something that has accumulated to the degree

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<v Speaker 2>that it is kind of vaguely animal shaped.

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<v Speaker 3>I must say that I find these accumulate with much

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<v Speaker 3>greater frequency if you have a dog.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, yeah, I mean we have a cat. And

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<v Speaker 2>that certainly helps too, you know, because, as we'll be

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<v Speaker 2>discussing here, like, they are made out of the various

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<v Speaker 2>things that make up dust in your home, and pet

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<v Speaker 2>dand or pet hair is a large part of that

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<v Speaker 2>if pets are present or even have been present in

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<v Speaker 2>pat So I found that dust bunnies can be a

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<v Speaker 2>deceptively difficult topic to research, as they often garner nothing

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<v Speaker 2>more than just passing mention, even in books devoted to

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<v Speaker 2>the topic of dust. I didn't look in all of them,

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<v Speaker 2>but I didn't look in a couple of them. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>even in books devoted entirely to topics of topic of dust,

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<v Speaker 2>you might not find much about them. So I suspect

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm not alone in turning up a few leads.

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<v Speaker 2>But there is some information out there. These accumulations have

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<v Speaker 2>been known by different names. Again, this is not an

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<v Speaker 2>exhaustive list, so let us know what you have come

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<v Speaker 2>to know them as. But in German tradition there are

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<v Speaker 2>often referred to as wool mouse or as it means

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<v Speaker 2>wool mouse, which I think is pretty good. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>looks it actually looks more like a mouse than a rabbit,

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<v Speaker 2>at least the ones I encounter.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's you know, you're more likely to find a

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<v Speaker 3>mouse than a rabbit inside your home.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, rabbits get rather big. Like when

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<v Speaker 2>I look into the backyard to check in the garden

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<v Speaker 2>and I see the prince with a thousand enemies back there,

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<v Speaker 2>he's kind of a chonker. I would be rather concerned

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<v Speaker 2>if I found a true rabbit sized dust bunny inside

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<v Speaker 2>the house.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe you're supposed to think of baby bunnies or like

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<v Speaker 3>just maybe just the bunny's tail, a little cottontail.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The other thing I was thinking is maybe it

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<v Speaker 2>has to do with like multiple clumps, and you can

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, it looks kind of like two ears

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<v Speaker 2>and a body or something.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right. So I think bunny kind of makes sense

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<v Speaker 3>because dust bunnies can be floppy. They can be almost

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<v Speaker 3>hinged in a way, if you know what I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>Like one part of them will fold over and they'll

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<v Speaker 3>flop around much like a rabbit's ears.

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<v Speaker 2>Now for this next one from English tradition, I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to warn everyone I am about to use a

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<v Speaker 2>word that has since this antiquated usage of the term

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<v Speaker 2>become more offensive. So you know, I don't skip a

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<v Speaker 2>few seconds of you. They're young listeners present, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to hear this word. And I also want to

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<v Speaker 2>throw a warning out there to any automated like spider

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<v Speaker 2>bots that are transcribing the podcast and then reporting back

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<v Speaker 2>to Apple Podcasts with inside about what we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Please be advised antiquated use of the term here. So

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<v Speaker 2>with all that set up. In English tradition, they are

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<v Speaker 2>some They were sometimes known as sluts wool. This was

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<v Speaker 2>an antiquated use of that term that meant an unclean

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<v Speaker 2>or slovenly person.

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<v Speaker 3>So it was an unclean or slovenly person's wool, meaning

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<v Speaker 3>it it came from them like it was their wool

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<v Speaker 3>and descended to the floor, or it was like meant

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<v Speaker 3>for them like this is the wool they will use

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<v Speaker 3>to dress in and heat their bodies.

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<v Speaker 2>Uncertain, I guess it kind of. It also kind of

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<v Speaker 2>seems like, Okay, if you were busy, you would have

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<v Speaker 2>cleaned your home and you would have maybe produced actual wool.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's just kind of I guess wool

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<v Speaker 2>thought of as something that accumulates naturally in the context

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<v Speaker 2>of sheep, I'm not sure. I've also read it referred

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<v Speaker 2>to as Beggar's velvet, not to be confused with Beggar's

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<v Speaker 2>velvet that was also a blend of cotton and linen.

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<v Speaker 2>So you might find references to someone wearing a garment

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<v Speaker 2>made of Beggar's velvet, but they're not using a garment

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<v Speaker 2>made of dust bunnies.

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<v Speaker 3>Wouldn't it be funny though, if dust bunny based fabrics

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<v Speaker 3>became like the new hot item, Like, you know, you

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<v Speaker 3>have silk, you've got I don't know, angora or something,

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<v Speaker 3>and then you get the dust bunny.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna pass on that one, but I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if you use the next term for it, maybe because

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<v Speaker 2>the next term is house moss, and this one I

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<v Speaker 2>feel finally sounds a little less disparaging, you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like just something that accumulates naturally and is therefore

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<v Speaker 2>rather mundane. I mean, who has a vendetta against moss?

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<v Speaker 2>And then finally you'll find other uses such as dust kitten.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't find any information about this being anything. This

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<v Speaker 2>might be a more recent development where we want to

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<v Speaker 2>apply all things cat to things in our house, and

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<v Speaker 2>therefore think of it as a dust kitten, which certainly

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<v Speaker 2>does sound cuter.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, a dust bunny is prey, a dust kitten is

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<v Speaker 3>a predator.

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<v Speaker 2>Dust bunny, however, does seem to be the main US

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<v Speaker 2>English term for these accumulations of dust. As this is

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<v Speaker 2>household dust. It's generally composed of the same household components

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<v Speaker 2>that we discussed in the last episode, so things like

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<v Speaker 2>dead skin, hair, pet dander, lint, pollen, and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Dust mites may also reside within them, so I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's anything you necessarily want to form into a garment.

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<v Speaker 2>Not that I ever have any problem like touching the

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<v Speaker 2>dust bunnies of only scooping up something behind a dresser

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<v Speaker 2>that hasn't been moved in a while, but I also

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<v Speaker 2>find that I regard it rather differently than when compared

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<v Speaker 2>to dryer lint. Dryer lint always, to me, feels like

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<v Speaker 2>a like a sacred and holy substance that must be

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<v Speaker 2>removed from the machine. There's something kind of satisfying about

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<v Speaker 2>removing dryer lint that, especially when it comes off in

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like a clump or a patch, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, when it comes out warm, Oh yeah, that really

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<v Speaker 3>emphasizes the holiness of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it still goes straight in the trash.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, I gotta say, dust bunnies came to

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<v Speaker 3>seem much more offensive to me. I mean that we

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<v Speaker 3>used to just have them around the house all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if that's gross, but like, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you'd see them and be like, oh, yeah, there's one

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<v Speaker 3>over there. Maybe I'll do something about it. Maybe not.

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<v Speaker 3>When you've got a young child who's like mobile, crawling

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<v Speaker 3>around on the floor and kind of putting whatever in

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<v Speaker 3>their mouth, then there's a sudden urgency to actually do

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<v Speaker 3>something about all these little critters piling up in the corners.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and pile up they do. Now, when you look

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<v Speaker 2>around for a detailed description on how dust bunnies form,

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<v Speaker 2>I found that some of the best explanations are not

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<v Speaker 2>really about explaining dust bunnies at all, but rather about

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<v Speaker 2>using them as a means to better understand accumulations of

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<v Speaker 2>cosmic dust and ultimately the formation of much larger bodies

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<v Speaker 2>in space. Sources on this include Richard Cowen's book History

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<v Speaker 2>of Life. I believe that's kind of like a long

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<v Speaker 2>standing like science textbook, kind of a situation. Also Formation

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<v Speaker 2>of Cosmic dust Bunnies, an article published in two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and seven in the IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science by

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<v Speaker 2>Matthews at All. John Hermann brought together some of these

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<v Speaker 2>sources for a twenty ten Gizmoto explainer, and there's also

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<v Speaker 2>a two thousand and nine Esquire explainer. But everyone is

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much circling around the same bundle of sources I find,

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<v Speaker 2>but still an insightful bundle of sources. So, whether we're

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with the formation of stars or the formation of

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<v Speaker 2>that epic dust bunny under your bed, it comes down

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<v Speaker 2>to the process of accretion. Now we've talked about this

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<v Speaker 2>in the show before, at least in the cosmic sense.

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<v Speaker 2>In the household sense, however, we'd be talking about a

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<v Speaker 2>very weak static electrical charge bringing together only the very

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<v Speaker 2>fine particles of dust, because you're not dealing with like

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<v Speaker 2>a you know, a cosmic void scenario. This is happening

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<v Speaker 2>under your bed. The rest of what's binding the dust

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<v Speaker 2>bunny together, it comes seems to come down to entangled

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<v Speaker 2>and matted fibers of the various components that make up

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<v Speaker 2>the bunnies.

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<v Speaker 3>Just based on my own observations, dust bunnies really do

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<v Speaker 3>seem to me to have a large hair component compared

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<v Speaker 3>to just the dust you'd find anywhere else in your house.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think the hair is key. The hair

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<v Speaker 2>gets tangled, hair gets matted in these contexts. It's why

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<v Speaker 2>I also, if you're a cat owner and you're you know,

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<v Speaker 2>on the lookout for things like hair balls, dust bunnies

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<v Speaker 2>can also be instantly a little bit more alarming because

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<v Speaker 2>you're like, Okay, what what's the classification of this thing

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<v Speaker 2>I have found? They're like, Oh, it's just dust bunny.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody is to blame except maybe me. Now, that giz

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<v Speaker 2>Moto explainer that I referenced earlier from Herman runs through

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<v Speaker 2>basically all this, But I thought that he has had

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<v Speaker 2>a really nice capper for the article, so I want

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<v Speaker 2>to read a quote from it. There are other minor

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<v Speaker 2>culprits like the cooking of fatty foods, which produces triglycerides

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<v Speaker 2>that can attach to dust particles, making them stickier. All

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<v Speaker 2>the causes, though, share one characteristic. They're subtle. It's either

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<v Speaker 2>electrostatic forces that are nearly impossible to measure, or air

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<v Speaker 2>flows that are impossible to feel, or fat deposits that

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<v Speaker 2>are unavoidable and unnoticeable byproducts of preparing. Basically any delicious

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<v Speaker 2>food actually make that two characteristics. Without dust, they can't exist,

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<v Speaker 2>So get cleaning. This is a very I thought, very

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<v Speaker 2>essential to note the airflow aspect of this, because I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's another thing you can observe in your home.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not only the places where dust isn't easily observed,

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<v Speaker 2>but also sort of the corners where like sweeping doors

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<v Speaker 2>and human traffic or pet traffic will sort of subtly

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<v Speaker 2>push everything together as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the kind of tide pools of airflow in the home,

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<v Speaker 3>places where things just get deposited and left there after

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 3>the movement all around. Well, Rob, I want to go

0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.640
<v Speaker 3>from the cozy and domestic context of dust bunnies back

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 3>to something you mentioned a minute ago, which is the

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.440
<v Speaker 3>cosmic context because I came across a very intriguing and

0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.559
<v Speaker 3>very cute hypothesis about the nature of a space object

0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.280
<v Speaker 3>that we have talked about several times on the show before,

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 3>and that is Omuamua.

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Ah Yes, our old friend of Muhamoa.

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 3>So to briefly refresh, Omuamua is the name of a

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.199
<v Speaker 3>fast moving object in space that was discovered in October

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 3>twenty seventeen through a ground based telescope and camera system

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 3>called pan stars one at the Haleaka Law Observatory in Hawaii,

0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:14.480
<v Speaker 3>and Omumua was big scientific news because it was the

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 3>first example ever confirmed of a physical object from another

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>star visiting our solar system, and scientists were able to

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 3>say with high confidence that it came from outside our

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 3>Solar system because of its speed and trajectory. So, your

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 3>standard asteroid or comet will will orbit our Sun in

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 3>a loop, and it might be a very elongated loop,

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.240
<v Speaker 3>or it might be at a kind of tilted angle,

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.760
<v Speaker 3>and its speed will tend to change as it goes

0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 3>around this irregular orbit. Maybe it'll get faster as it

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.319
<v Speaker 3>swings around the Sun and then slow down as it

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 3>gets farther away from the Sun in that loop. But

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 3>instead of orbiting our Sun in a loop, this object

0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:01.719
<v Speaker 3>entered the Solar System going extremely fast angle nearly perpendicular

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 3>to the orbital plane of the planets. So if you

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 3>picture the planet circling the Sun on a basically flat disc,

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 3>could this object hit the disc from the top and

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.840
<v Speaker 3>then had its path sharply bent around by the gravity

0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.839
<v Speaker 3>of the Sun, and then continued on a course taking

0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 3>it straight back out of the Solar System forever. And

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 3>the decisive factor showing that it was not from here

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 3>and would not be returning was speed. It had what

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 3>might be called a hyperbolic velocity, enough speed that its

0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 3>path around the Sun if you zoom out, was clearly

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 3>not the tight end of an oval shape, but was

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 3>closer to a V shaped corner in a linear path, in.

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Other words, just passing through.

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So, Omuamua got people excited for a number of reasons.

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 3>First of all, it was the very first of its kind.

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 3>Nobody had ever confirmed an interstellar object in our vicinity before,

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 3>though soon after its discovery we learned that it might

0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 3>not actually be all that rare, because another interstellar object

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 3>called Borisov, a rogue comet this time, was spotted in

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 3>August twenty nineteen, and there are other indications since then

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 3>that this kind of thing might happen a lot. It's

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 3>just that Omumua was the first one we happened to

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.440
<v Speaker 3>see it happened to catch now. Of course, one corner

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 3>of the Internet got very excited because, of course some

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 3>people thought it was aliens, right, this is an alien

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 3>probe or a techno signature of some kind. We looked

0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 3>into these claims back in the day when people were

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 3>first publicizing them, and our judgment was that, you know,

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing about Omumo that requires that conclusion, though it

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 3>did have some very odd and interesting features that require

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 3>some explanation. One of these features was its apparent shape.

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Omuamua seems to be shaped like almost nothing else we

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 3>know of in our solar system, and to be clear,

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 3>this shape is something we have to infer not able

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 3>to resolve an image of Omumua's shape directly. It's not

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 3>like we could zoom in close enough with a telescope

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 3>to see it like these pictures of asteroids we get

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 3>from like a probe that approaches really close, like the

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 3>image we got of the asteroid Binu from the Osiris

0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 3>REX mission. You know that is a direct camera image

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.640
<v Speaker 3>that we could get because we were close. Omuamua is

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 3>a point like source of light. It was far away

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 3>and very small. But by analyzing what's called a light curve,

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 3>which is the pattern of time based variations in the

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 3>intensity of light reflected off of the object, scientists can

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 3>put together a likely model or multiple likely models of

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 3>its shape, and according to what I've read, the best

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 3>models of its shape include either a sort of tumbling

0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 3>elongated cigar shape or a tumbling flat disc. NASA's overview

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 3>of the object still leans toward the cigar shape, saying

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 3>that it is probably about four hundred meters long and

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.879
<v Speaker 3>about ten times as long as it is wide, and

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.679
<v Speaker 3>there's still some variation in those estimates. Like other sources

0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 3>I've looked at the put the guess at it being

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 3>more like two hundred meters long and having a slightly

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 3>different length to with ratio. So there was a lot

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 3>of speculation about what this object is. Is it we

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 3>know it comes from outside the Solar System, but is

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 3>it an interstellar asteroid? Is it a rogue comet from

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.119
<v Speaker 3>another star? Is it a shard of a planet that

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 3>got smashed to pieces? What is it another strange feature

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 3>of Muamua that seems to contribute to these the search

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 3>for an explanation as to its nature is its seemingly

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 3>anomalous acceleration. The object was caught going slightly faster and

0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 3>faster as it moved away from the Sun, which is

0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:57.439
<v Speaker 3>characteristic of comets rather than asteroids. Comets, which have some

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.639
<v Speaker 3>rock and dust content but are also largely made of ice,

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 3>can accelerate beyond the speed that would be predicted by

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:10.359
<v Speaker 3>gravity alone by outgassing. When they get close to the Sun.

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 3>Comets heat up and the ice starts to melt. The

0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 3>ice and the volatiles melt and they shoot out into space,

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 3>and this throwing of water and other volatiles into space

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.960
<v Speaker 3>gives the comet an equal and opposite propulsive nudge, increasing

0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 3>its speed. Omuama behaved basically as if it were receiving

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 3>this kind of cometary speed boost as it was flying

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 3>away from its closest brush with the Sun. But there's

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.199
<v Speaker 3>a problem. When comets melt and outgas like this, we

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.919
<v Speaker 3>can see it. They show a cometary tail, and Omuamua

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.440
<v Speaker 3>did not show a cometary tail, and so this, by

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 3>the way, was one of the arguments of the people

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 3>claiming that it was aliens, that this strange combination of

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 3>observations showed that the object was an alien techno signature,

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.959
<v Speaker 3>basically a vehicle based on the principle of a solar sale.

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 3>And we again, we looked at that claim in more

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.639
<v Speaker 3>depth years ago. Look up that episode to learn more

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.800
<v Speaker 3>if you want. But we sort of agreed with the

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.399
<v Speaker 3>skeptics that there's no reason to jump to the conclusion

0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 3>of aliens yet. Maybe it's just a natural object with

0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.160
<v Speaker 3>some unusual features.

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it was an exciting question, to be sure,

0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.679
<v Speaker 2>and it got the public interested. But is it the

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 2>first question you should ask. Probably not, And again it

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.440
<v Speaker 2>seems like they are far better explanations for what this was.

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 3>Right, So I'm about to get to one of those,

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 3>actually a couple, but in any case, it's weird and intriguing.

0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 3>So it's an object that was from outside our solar system,

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.040
<v Speaker 3>speeding up like a comet, but showing none of the

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.480
<v Speaker 3>visible tale of gas and dust we would expect from

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.200
<v Speaker 3>a comet. And that brings us back to the topic

0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 3>at hand, the dust bunnies. One hypothesis that was put

0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.879
<v Speaker 3>forward to explain the observed behavior of Umuamua was this,

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 3>What if it's not really an asteroid or a comet

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 3>in the way we know? What if it is a

0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.800
<v Speaker 3>dust bunny from another star?

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:09.879
<v Speaker 2>Dust bunnies from outer space?

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 3>Can your heart stand the shocking facts about dust bunnies

0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.720
<v Speaker 3>from outer space? So I want to mention a paper

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:23.159
<v Speaker 3>called Omuamua as a cometary fractal aggregate the dust bunny model.

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 3>This was published in the Astrophysical Journal Letters in twenty

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:32.640
<v Speaker 3>twenty by Jane x lu Irich Fleckoy and Renaud Tousson.

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.879
<v Speaker 3>In their abstract, the author's right, the first known intertellar object,

0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.679
<v Speaker 3>Omuamua displayed such unusual properties that its origin remains a

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:46.040
<v Speaker 3>subject of much debate. We propose that Omuamua's properties could

0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:50.640
<v Speaker 3>be explained as those of a fractal dust aggregate. Parentheses,

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 3>a dust bunny formed in the inner coma of a

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 3>fragmenting exo ort cloud comet. So this would be a

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:04.200
<v Speaker 3>comet coming from the sort of sphere of objects surrounding

0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 3>another star, like the Sun's ort cloud. The authors go on,

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:15.800
<v Speaker 3>such fragments could serve as accretion sites by accumulating dust particles,

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.360
<v Speaker 3>resulting in the formation of a fractal aggregate. The fractal

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 3>aggregate eventually breaks off from the fragment due to hydrodynamic stress.

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 3>With their low density and tenuously bound orbits. Most of

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:34.919
<v Speaker 3>these cometary fractal aggregates are then ejected into interstellar space

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 3>by radiation pressure. So for some more explanation on this

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 3>that would make better sense to a non specialist, I

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 3>came across an article in Popular Science which included illuminating

0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.239
<v Speaker 3>quotes from some of the authors of this paper. So

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.400
<v Speaker 3>this article is called Omuamua isn't aliens, but it may

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 3>not be an asteroid either. This was by Charlie Wood

0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 3>So according to this article. In February twenty nineteen, a

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 3>Space Telescope Science Institute astronomer named Amaya Moro Martin suggested

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.879
<v Speaker 3>that the explanation for Omuamua's weird acceleration was perhaps that

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 3>it was unusually light weight, so less like an asteroid,

0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 3>less like a space rock, and more like a space feather,

0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 3>and this would make it possible for a natural object

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:26.200
<v Speaker 3>to function more like a light sale to be significantly

0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.960
<v Speaker 3>sped up by radiation pressure from the sun. The sunlight

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:35.199
<v Speaker 3>giving it a push. Scientists investigating this idea referred to

0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 3>the model as a fractal aggregate. So aggregate, of course

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 3>means you know, a collection of smaller things. In the

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.159
<v Speaker 3>words of the article, quote a fluffy conglomeration of dust

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 3>and ice grains, And the fractal part of that name

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 3>refers to a porous structure that repeats at different levels

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.320
<v Speaker 3>of resolution. So if you zoom in or zoom out,

0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.640
<v Speaker 3>you would see similar patterns of holes and gaps in

0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.840
<v Speaker 3>this structure. Irich Fleckoy, a physicist at the University of

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Oslo who was one of the authors of the dust

0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 3>Bunny paper, said to Popular Science for this article quote,

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.440
<v Speaker 3>I think if you hit this thing, it would be

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:17.600
<v Speaker 3>a little bit like hitting a spider web.

0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.240
<v Speaker 3>So the paper had to answer several questions. First of all,

0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 3>would the fractal aggregate explain this object's movement and acceleration?

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.520
<v Speaker 3>The authors say yes. In fact, there was another weird

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 3>fact about Omuamua that didn't come up earlier. Apparently there

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.840
<v Speaker 3>was a slowing of its rotation as it traveled, and

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.760
<v Speaker 3>the authors said that this fit well with the fact

0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:47.879
<v Speaker 3>that solar radiation pressure can exert an uneven push on

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:51.200
<v Speaker 3>a rotating object with like some parts of an object

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 3>getting more of a push from the solar radiation than others, so,

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 3>for example, it pushes more on parts that are highly reflective.

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 3>So it's possible that radiation pressure could help explain the

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:07.760
<v Speaker 3>change into Inomumua's tumbling or rotation pattern. If so, radiation

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.119
<v Speaker 3>pressure from the Sun could also be responsible for its acceleration.

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 3>Another question is could a very very low density, porous

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:22.199
<v Speaker 3>fractal object like a dust bunny survive tumbling through space

0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:26.400
<v Speaker 3>without being ripped apart. The authors model this and they

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:30.959
<v Speaker 3>conclude yes, it can, but the model does have challenges,

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:35.359
<v Speaker 3>and the Popular Science article quotes an astrophysicist at Cambridge

0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:39.439
<v Speaker 3>named Roman Rafikov who points out that in order for

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 3>the dust bunny model to work to have the right

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.479
<v Speaker 3>amount of acceleration due to radiation pressure, it would have

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 3>to be amazingly low density, about one hundred times less

0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:54.320
<v Speaker 3>dense than air at sea level on Earth, and Rafikov

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.479
<v Speaker 3>points out that this is even less dense than human

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:01.640
<v Speaker 3>engineered aerogels, which are pecifically created to be as low

0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.760
<v Speaker 3>density as possible. So, Rafikov says in the article quote

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:09.880
<v Speaker 3>how do you reconstruct this in interstellar space? Like, how

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:13.800
<v Speaker 3>does something like that form? How does it stay intact? However,

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:17.919
<v Speaker 3>despite Rafikov's skepticism of what this model would require, he

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 3>also said at the time of the article, at least

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.320
<v Speaker 3>in twenty nineteen, that he couldn't come up with a

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 3>better explanation. But that doesn't mean there isn't one. So

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.440
<v Speaker 3>the dust bunny model I love it. It is a

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:31.359
<v Speaker 3>few years old now, and it's not the only proposal

0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 3>to reconcile umumu as weird acceleration with its lack of

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.680
<v Speaker 3>the normal features associated with commentary outgassing. For example, there

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:42.760
<v Speaker 3>was a paper I came across that was published in

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 3>Nature last year in twenty twenty three by astronomers Jennifer

0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Bergner and Darryl Seligman called acceleration of Umumua from radiolytically

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.920
<v Speaker 3>produced H two in H two O ice. And these

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:01.639
<v Speaker 3>authors put together a model that could explain the acceleration

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:06.359
<v Speaker 3>of omuumua without the normally visible cometary tale by saying

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:10.920
<v Speaker 3>that it is due to its unique life history, and

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 3>because of this life history, it was simply venting a

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 3>different kind of volatile than what you'd see in a

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:22.440
<v Speaker 3>normal local comet from our Solar System. So the authors say,

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 3>quote here, we report that the acceleration of Omuumua is

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:31.159
<v Speaker 3>due to the release of entrapped molecular hydrogen that formed

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:35.000
<v Speaker 3>through energetic processing of an H two zero rich icy body.

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:40.280
<v Speaker 3>In this model, Omumoua began as an icy planetesimal that

0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:44.480
<v Speaker 3>was irradiated at low temperatures by cosmic rays during its

0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 3>interstellar journey and experienced warming during its passage through the

0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Solar System. So the idea is, this icy object is

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:56.679
<v Speaker 3>out in the interstellar medium between star systems for ages

0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:00.320
<v Speaker 3>and ages, and the whole time it is just getting cooked.

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:05.280
<v Speaker 3>It is getting bombarded by cosmic radiation. This radiation splits

0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:08.800
<v Speaker 3>apart the H two O molecules in the ice of

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 3>this object and creates H two hydrogen gas trapped within

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 3>the ice. Then when it gets close to the Sun,

0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:20.160
<v Speaker 3>the ice melts a bit and releases this hydrogen gas,

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:23.639
<v Speaker 3>which provides the acceleration, but not the same kind of

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:27.000
<v Speaker 3>tail you would see from the regular venting of pure

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.080
<v Speaker 3>intact H two O and dust and in a regular comet.

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:32.680
<v Speaker 3>So just wanted to throw that out there, because there

0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 3>are multiple possible non aliens explanations. Maybe one day we

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 3>will have a more conclusive model, but I think for

0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 3>now we still don't know for sure what this object was.

0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:46.600
<v Speaker 3>I do kind of hope it was a dust bunny.

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, all interesting ideas.

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because ultimately, you know, is it a life elsewhere

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 2>in the galaxy in the universe. We don't know for sure.

0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>We can't say one way or another. Is there dust? Yeah?

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 3>Hell, yes, I.

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Think we can all agree there's dust. Now here's an

0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 2>interesting tie into the dust bunny that brings us back

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 2>to terrestrial affairs but also into the world of invention

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:27.760
<v Speaker 2>and the history of science as science has been accepted

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.240
<v Speaker 2>by the general public. And this is where we're also

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:32.480
<v Speaker 2>eventually going to get into some cosmic horror as well,

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:37.480
<v Speaker 2>because one approach to dealing with the accumulation of dust

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:41.320
<v Speaker 2>in the home and the accumulation of dust bunnies would

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>at least seem to be the elimination of the empty

0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and wasted space in a room where they typically accumulate. So,

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 2>in other words, think of it this way. Most of

0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.680
<v Speaker 2>us tend to approach this by all right, we know

0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 2>where the dust accumulates. Let's go dust there let's go

0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:59.480
<v Speaker 2>sweet there. But you might also think, well, what is

0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 2>this space in my house for the only thing it's

0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 2>good for is accumulating dust and dust bunnies. I should

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:06.960
<v Speaker 2>just seal that off.

0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 3>But wait, it isn't the point of having an interior

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 3>space in your home that you can use that space.

0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 3>If you just seal space off, it's like you can't

0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:15.320
<v Speaker 3>get to it.

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:18.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, these would be spaces that would be very difficult

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 2>to utilize, such as not an entire corner of your house,

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.640
<v Speaker 2>but just that minute corner. This specifically one example, this

0:29:27.680 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 2>would be the little corners at the edge of each

0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 2>stair in a stairwell. And this is particularly a place

0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>where we see.

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:39.400
<v Speaker 3>The that's the devil's playground exactly.

0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:42.440
<v Speaker 2>This is where we see the application of the decorative

0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>dust corner. These were popular during the Victorian era, especially

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:49.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, during like the eighteen eighties, it seemed to

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 2>be an era of popularity for these. These were little

0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 2>metal features sometimes described as an exploded triangle. I included

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:00.880
<v Speaker 2>some images here for you and anyone out there. If

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you want to see this, look up dust corner. You know,

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:05.960
<v Speaker 2>there's like a simb There's a Wikipedia page about them.

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 2>The various images that there are historic examples, but then

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:13.680
<v Speaker 2>also some people are still producing these for you know,

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 2>homes that want that kind of like older touch, that

0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of Victorian touch. And so in this picture, Joe,

0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>you can see in the corner of the stairs, the

0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:26.320
<v Speaker 2>little corner there is just capped off, so the dust

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 2>cannot accumulate there.

0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:29.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, So instead of the corner of the inside of

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 3>a cube type shape, there is a smooth ascent, the

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 3>little curved triangle goes right in there and just makes

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 3>it a gentle slope.

0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And these were generally made out of metal, they

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 2>were generally highly decorative. They would have been uniform, so

0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>whatever design you had, they would have been. This design

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:49.280
<v Speaker 2>would be on all of the little dust corners that

0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 2>you installed in your house. And you know, the interesting

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:55.680
<v Speaker 2>thing about them is, I feel like I've almost certainly

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 2>toured places that still have these either original pieces or

0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:01.840
<v Speaker 2>part of some sort of retro design aesthetic. But I

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:05.440
<v Speaker 2>don't remember ever having seen one before. Maybe they're just

0:31:05.480 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 2>easy to miss. I'm not sure they're look familiar to me. Yeah,

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 2>so I'm now I'm on the lookout for them. But

0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I've at least thus far in my life. I feel

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:15.440
<v Speaker 2>like I've not been paying enough attention.

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:17.960
<v Speaker 3>They do look like something you would see in a

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 3>historic home.

0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and there does seem to be a science connection here,

0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:27.360
<v Speaker 2>or at least a science history connection, according to Gail

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Caskie Winkler, author of Victorian interior decoration, cited in a

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 2>May June two thousand and sixth edition of Old House Journal.

0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:41.800
<v Speaker 2>The article here says quote even science affected stare hardware,

0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>with dust corners emerging in the eighteen eighties, probably in

0:31:46.480 --> 0:31:50.560
<v Speaker 2>response to the growing acceptance of germ theory. Summarizes Gail

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Caskie Winkler.

0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:55.120
<v Speaker 3>What dust corners and germ theory? That's I wouldn't have

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 3>made that connection.

0:31:56.400 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Because of the dust. Yeah, so interesting. I was also

0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 2>reading about dust corners in an article by Will Wiles

0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 2>titled The Corner of Lovecraft and Ballard, about architectural details

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>and the fiction of various authors. But as the title suggests, HP. Lovecraft,

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 2>they lived eighteen ninety through nineteen thirty seven, and JG. Ballard,

0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:18.800
<v Speaker 2>who live nineteen thirty through two thousand and nine. The

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Lovecraft connection, of course, would seem to line up with

0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 2>the timeline of dust corners in particular, but Wiles is

0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:31.080
<v Speaker 2>in general describing the kind of architectural war on filth

0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:36.240
<v Speaker 2>that rises with acceptance of germ theory, impacting various aspects

0:32:36.240 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 2>of design, and then also like modernist thought and also

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:41.720
<v Speaker 2>weird fiction of the era.

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so that maybe there are certain architectural features that

0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 3>signal an evolving idea of what it means to because

0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 3>a lot of architecture in history has communicated an idea

0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 3>of being able to tame the natural world, to sort

0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:03.040
<v Speaker 3>of like sub do nature and bring it under our control.

0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.200
<v Speaker 3>And this is a space that we control. This is order,

0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 3>and this is human civilization inside this building with these

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 3>right angles. But as the understanding of nature changes to

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 3>include like smaller and smaller organisms, maybe that also signals

0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 3>a concurrent change in how architecture expresses that desire to dominate.

0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Nature right right, especially on the home front, in the home.

0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:30.480
<v Speaker 2>So it's not a situation where victorians were saying we

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.760
<v Speaker 2>have to install dust corners everywhere if we are to

0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:37.719
<v Speaker 2>defeat plague or anything like that. No, no, but it

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:41.480
<v Speaker 2>was more like, okay, once this mindset has is becoming

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:44.600
<v Speaker 2>more and more popular and accepted, you know, your eyes

0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.960
<v Speaker 2>turned to the house, and and oh, here is the dust,

0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 2>and where's the dust accumulating? What can be done architecturally

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:58.600
<v Speaker 2>stylistically to combat this enemy, So Wiles writes the following quote.

0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Once the home was rid of moldings, fabrics, and chotsika's,

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the sanitary maniac suspicion fell on the dust harboring corner itself.

0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:11.160
<v Speaker 2>In the eighteen eighties, the dust corner was introduced, a

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 2>brass triangle that could be tacked at the meeting point

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.960
<v Speaker 2>of two walls and the floor, or the corners of

0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a flight of stairs, so dirt couldn't gather and sweeping

0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:23.920
<v Speaker 2>would be easier. But he of course points out that

0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:27.960
<v Speaker 2>dust corners were a clumsy and imperfect solution in a

0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 2>modernist yearning for the true cornerless room, a term the

0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>cornerless room that became associated with breaks from reality, So

0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the padded room of a sanitarium was sometimes referred to

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:46.960
<v Speaker 2>as a cornerless room, he writes, quote, in the literature

0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.279
<v Speaker 2>of the first half of the twentieth century, there are

0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:53.480
<v Speaker 2>references to the cornerless room as an ultimate convenience in

0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a modern home. So it's suddenly it's like boat. We're

0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:58.799
<v Speaker 2>kind of having it both ways. It's like this thing

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 2>we're yearning for, but also this thing that is that

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:06.680
<v Speaker 2>it might be unnatural but also might be just the

0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:10.799
<v Speaker 2>desired form of everything. And then the corner sometimes in

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:14.880
<v Speaker 2>some uses, becomes a gateway to cosmic horror and madness.

0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:18.680
<v Speaker 2>One literary example that he draws on is a short

0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:22.000
<v Speaker 2>story not by HP Lovecraft, but by one of his protegees,

0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 2>another author of the same time period that he was

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.400
<v Speaker 2>in communication with, a gentleman by the name of Frank A.

0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Belknup Long, and the work in question is The Houlms

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:38.600
<v Speaker 2>of Tendalos. So this was a story that I was

0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.440
<v Speaker 2>originally just going to reference, but then I found like

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:44.160
<v Speaker 2>a ninety nine cent collection of this author's work. I

0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 2>picked it up, I started reading. I haven't finished it

0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 2>yet as of this recording, but it's essentially one of

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:55.360
<v Speaker 2>these sort of gentleman's study kind of setups where you

0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 2>have two scholarly individuals. It is almost impossible for me

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:02.440
<v Speaker 2>not to picture them as being played by Peter Cushing

0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:05.799
<v Speaker 2>and Christopher Lee, and one of them. This is like

0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:09.839
<v Speaker 2>a ninth late nineteen thirty story, I believe, and the

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.760
<v Speaker 2>main character is like I have decided to take drugs

0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:18.520
<v Speaker 2>and travel through time, and his friend is like, oh,

0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:19.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you should do that, and he's like, no,

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I haven't all worked out, and he's like, okay, fine,

0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 2>I will. I will be here to help you into Yeah,

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:31.800
<v Speaker 2>that's the setup, but it eventually involves terrifying, vaguely hound

0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:35.680
<v Speaker 2>like entities from another dimension that enter into our world

0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:40.760
<v Speaker 2>through geometric corners. Here's the here's a quick line from it. Quote,

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The foul expresses itself through angles, the pure through curves. Man,

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the pure part of him is descended from a curve.

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.719
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, this idea that, like the angle is so

0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:56.319
<v Speaker 2>unnatural that this becomes the nexus point through which these

0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>terrifying creatures can appear at any moment and hunt one down.

0:37:02.400 --> 0:37:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Wells also cites a book by Ellen Cleary, Victorian Dust Traps,

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.799
<v Speaker 2>which expands on this Victorian fear of dust, arguing that

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:11.839
<v Speaker 2>dust traps in the home, so you know, areas where

0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:16.320
<v Speaker 2>dust accumulates became the new focal point for potential disease

0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 2>during this time. The quote primary locus of pollution anxiety

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:26.520
<v Speaker 2>within sanitary geographies of the Victorian home, which is I

0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 2>found a rather nice way of putting it.

0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that's interesting because going back to what we talked

0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:34.880
<v Speaker 3>about in the first episode, I actually don't know the

0:37:34.960 --> 0:37:38.920
<v Speaker 3>extent to which, if any, there is a correlation between

0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.960
<v Speaker 3>dust and say, the spread of infectious disease, Like it

0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:46.920
<v Speaker 3>is there really any connection there between you know, tiny

0:37:46.920 --> 0:37:49.800
<v Speaker 3>flying particles or the accumulation of dust in the house

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 3>with the spreading of germs per se. But of course

0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:57.400
<v Speaker 3>we do know that there is some correlation with dust

0:37:57.520 --> 0:38:00.759
<v Speaker 3>and dust mites, which, as we talked about it in

0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:05.280
<v Speaker 3>the last episode, are the number one source of allergic

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 3>reactions in human beings worldwide.

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:12.439
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, and of course that allergic reaction has many things

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 3>in common with some infectious diseases.

0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:16.719
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, this is all interesting in this idea of

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.719
<v Speaker 2>it being like a focal point of cleanliness based on

0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:23.640
<v Speaker 2>new information that may be feeding anxieties about the link

0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:26.279
<v Speaker 2>between cleanliness and health, which of course is always a

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:28.759
<v Speaker 2>complex scenario in the human mind because you also have

0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:33.399
<v Speaker 2>these other ideas of hygiene and spiritual cleanliness that get

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 2>clogged up with everything else. But it reminds me a

0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:38.840
<v Speaker 2>little bit of during the early days of the pandemic,

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:41.799
<v Speaker 2>in particular, when suddenly there's a lot more focus on, say,

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:45.040
<v Speaker 2>door knobs and the cleanliness of door knobs. That was

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:50.880
<v Speaker 2>something that not everyone was ignorant of prior, but it

0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 2>suddenly became a much bigger thing, and then.

0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:55.160
<v Speaker 3>Front of mind.

0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:58.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, front of mind. And then in the last couple

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:00.800
<v Speaker 2>of years it's been able to we've been able to

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.560
<v Speaker 2>push it further back. So I speaking for myself, I

0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.400
<v Speaker 2>don't think as much about who's been touching the doorknob,

0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:10.759
<v Speaker 2>certainly not like those early days of the pandemic. All right, well,

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:12.239
<v Speaker 2>we're going to go ahead and close it out there,

0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 2>but we'd love for everyone to write in. If you

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:18.319
<v Speaker 2>have a first and foremost more information about what you

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:22.320
<v Speaker 2>call a dust bunny, from whatever background you have, or

0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:25.640
<v Speaker 2>whatever you've learned in your travels or your conversations, let

0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:27.960
<v Speaker 2>us know. We'd love to hear from you. If you

0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:32.319
<v Speaker 2>have additional thoughts on cosmic dust, cosmic horror corners, the

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>hounds of tendlos, whatever you have right in, we'd love

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.640
<v Speaker 2>to hear it. Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, with

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:44.560
<v Speaker 2>core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Listener mail on Mondays

0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:46.840
<v Speaker 2>a short form episode on Wednesdays and on Fridays, we

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:48.880
<v Speaker 2>set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a

0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:50.960
<v Speaker 2>weird film on Weird House Cinema.

0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:54.680
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

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<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

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<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

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<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, sure, or just to say hello,

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<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact Stuff to Blow your

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<v Speaker 3>Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.