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Speaker 1: Ron and Anian, I've been doing something new where I

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Speaker 1: actually keep a written journal at the shop every week.

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Speaker 1: I've been looking through your journal. Why does it say

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Speaker 1: all work and no play makes Ron a dull? Boys

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Speaker 1: over and it looks like a movie the Shining. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know it's just do hit books. You've got the shot,

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Speaker 1: you mean shining? Do you want to get suited? The

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Speaker 1: car Doctor. You're filling it up with cooling water or whatever,

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Speaker 1: engine off and it comes out the bleeder right, correct,

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Speaker 1: It does not come out the bleeder for the show.

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Speaker 1: It should, so why does it not? Are you sure

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Speaker 1: the bleeder is not clogged? Welcome to the radio home

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Speaker 1: of Ron and Anian, the Car Doctor. Since this is

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Speaker 1: where car owners the world overturned to for their definitive

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Speaker 1: opinion on automotive repair. If your mechanics giving you a

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Speaker 1: busy signal, pick up the phone and call in the

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Speaker 1: garage to orders are open, but I am here to

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Speaker 1: take your calls at eight five five five six and

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Speaker 1: now running. There is one absolute in order repair, and

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Speaker 1: it's an absolute that just you can't top it, and

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Speaker 1: that is that technology is going to continue to evolve

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Speaker 1: and no pun intended drive the business it's gonna make

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Speaker 1: it either easy or difficult, depending upon your perspective and

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Speaker 1: depending upon whether or not you're equipped and ready for it.

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Speaker 1: I recently heard some rumblings going on regarding Chrysler, for example,

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Speaker 1: that and it's no secret at this point that you

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Speaker 1: have to have a secure gateway to get into Chrysler

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Speaker 1: via scan tool technology, and some of the scan tool

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Speaker 1: companies are struggling with it. One of the leaders in

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Speaker 1: this one of the guys, some of a group of guys,

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Speaker 1: I should say it like that that have sort of

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Speaker 1: defined this package as it approaches the industry. The guys

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Speaker 1: over at Autel and UM, we've reached out to them

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Speaker 1: as always working with them as we do. When we're

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Speaker 1: talking once again with Michael Flinky, is the director over

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Speaker 1: there for diagnostic, battery testing and mobilizer and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of good things that ought to tell on the diagnostics sign.

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Speaker 1: We're glad to have him back, Mike. Welcome back, sir,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, I'm glad to be here. UM. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot right Chrysler started out as about two years ago,

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Speaker 1: you guys made the formal announcement. I think you were

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Speaker 1: the first to secure the gateway access for the automotive

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Speaker 1: aftermarket to allow shops to speak to Chrysler vehicles by

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Speaker 1: registering their tools and the process so forth. But it's

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Speaker 1: getting kicked up a notch again, isn't it? Is that

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Speaker 1: the rumor that I heard? Not really. We were one

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Speaker 1: of the first three UM to come in with it.

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Speaker 1: There's quite a few now that are starting to get in. UM,

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Speaker 1: but it's still it's just the shops, I think, and

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Speaker 1: the technicians are starting to get used to the idea

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Speaker 1: and they're starting to run into more and more of

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Speaker 1: these cars. UM. Chrysler started the gateways with some models,

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Speaker 1: and so as these vehicles begin to age out of

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Speaker 1: that manufacturer's warranty, the independent repair shops and the technicians

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Speaker 1: are now starting to see them and having to deal

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Speaker 1: with that gateway module, and so we're starting to hear

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Speaker 1: more and more of them asking the question, UM, but

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a pretty solid process at this point.

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Speaker 1: Can you take us back, what what created this? And

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Speaker 1: is this a Christler only thing or other manufacturers going

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Speaker 1: to require this to you know? But yeah, and some

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Speaker 1: others are getting there. What this really stems from? If

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Speaker 1: anybody remembers back in February, UH sixty minutes had an

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Speaker 1: article they did UM with a couple of white hat

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Speaker 1: hackers down in Florida that showed that you could actually

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Speaker 1: use the connected part of a car, between the bluetooth

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Speaker 1: and wireless that we're getting into day's cars, to be

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Speaker 1: able to get into the diagnostics and the computer systems

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Speaker 1: and actually be able to mess with things like automatic breaking,

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Speaker 1: UM your power steering. And so from that hack attempt

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Speaker 1: that was actually successful that they showed UM the car

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Speaker 1: manufacturers and even the government out into saying, hey, we've

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Speaker 1: got to find a way to secure these cars. As

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Speaker 1: we add more technology and safety systems, more of this

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Speaker 1: connected vehicle, we've got to have a way to protect it.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what kind of led to this. The

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Speaker 1: vehicle that was a subject of that article was a Jeep,

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Speaker 1: so Chrysler was one of the first to jump into

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Speaker 1: the fray since it was their vehicle that got the

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Speaker 1: bad publicity, if you will, from the article UM. Since then,

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Speaker 1: Nissan started in with the Center and Rogue. They're now

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Speaker 1: working with a gateway module UH, and they actually haven't

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Speaker 1: come up with their solution unlike what Chrysler has finally

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Speaker 1: come up with on. There's um Ford's dabbling in it.

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Speaker 1: Uh in some of the things they've got. Uh they

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Speaker 1: aren't to a full gateway module of the same style

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Speaker 1: as these, but they're actually starting to get some. We'll

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Speaker 1: see more car manufacturers starting to do this as that

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Speaker 1: concern comes up. I guess, I guess as the car

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Speaker 1: just you know, if it can become more of a

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Speaker 1: rolling computer, as it becomes more of a rolling computer,

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Speaker 1: we've got to have a way to secure it. We've

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Speaker 1: got to put a way to prevent hackers from taking

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Speaker 1: control and as that car is self driving, to prevent

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Speaker 1: it from doing something wrong. The cuckoo could create a problem, right, absolutely, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. It's it's it's the ever battle of technology

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Speaker 1: and convenience that the consumer wants of the car versus

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Speaker 1: keeping it secure and safe. But Autell, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I have to bang your drum a little bit because

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Speaker 1: Autell was I thought you were the first, if not

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Speaker 1: one of the first. You were the guys that you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of secured the gateway and showed the industry, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go through. And I believe the name of

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Speaker 1: the company, Correct me if I'm wrong. Mike is Auto

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Speaker 1: Off Auto Authority right UM. Auto Auto Off is the

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Speaker 1: third party for Chrysler that manages the access to these

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Speaker 1: gateway modules for all of us that build aftermarket scan tools.

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Speaker 1: AT was actually officially third in line among the car

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Speaker 1: manufacturers to get there. UM where we got some of

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Speaker 1: the publicity or the credit it for leading is during there.

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Speaker 1: From the time Chrysler introduced this until they had the

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Speaker 1: solution for the automotive aftermarket, there was about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half gap UM where the industry was kind

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Speaker 1: of struggling on what do we do? UH, and we

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Speaker 1: had actually come up with a bypass cable has an

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Speaker 1: interim measure for technicians to use. Involved a lot of work.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't a perfect solution, but it was something until the

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Speaker 1: Auto Off issue came up from Chrysler and became a

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Speaker 1: method that we could use. Now, if a shop out

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Speaker 1: there has a tool, and it doesn't matter if it's

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Speaker 1: an all tell or whatever, but they want to get

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Speaker 1: into Chrysler, UM, it's a matter of walk us through that.

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Speaker 1: That's it's a simple process at this point, right it is.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a two step process. So, uh, step

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Speaker 1: one is for the technician, the mechanic to register with

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Speaker 1: auto off and that's a U T O a U

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Speaker 1: T H for your folks out there, and it's auto

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Speaker 1: off dot com is their website, and the registration is

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Speaker 1: really simple. You're simply giving them your first and last

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Speaker 1: name and an email address and then creating a password.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they email you in the whole verification of are

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Speaker 1: you you? And did you do this? Make sure you're

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Speaker 1: not some kind of a bot out there on the web.

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Speaker 1: Once that's done, now the technician has an auto off

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Speaker 1: i D. Step two is they have to say if

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Speaker 1: they're acting as an independent repair technician or are they

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Speaker 1: part of our member of a shop and the shop

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Speaker 1: or the technician if he's going independent, then has to

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Speaker 1: create a auto off account and that's where they have

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Speaker 1: to actually pay UH. And it's relatively an expensive fifty

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Speaker 1: dollars a year for a shop to have an auto

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Speaker 1: off account UM. And within that account, then a technician

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Speaker 1: who's registered UH can say I'm working for this shop.

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Speaker 1: The shop managing it can have five technicians plus of

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Speaker 1: course the shop owner whoever was the lead of the account,

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Speaker 1: so essentially six technicians in their account, and they can

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Speaker 1: have up to ten different standard is registered. Once the

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Speaker 1: accounts created that they've paid for and technician assigned, then

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Speaker 1: the manager for that shop where the owner will then

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Speaker 1: register the tools by serial number and brand with auto

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Speaker 1: off and as long as it's an approved model and

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Speaker 1: brand of scand tool, then that will give him the

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Speaker 1: access to it. What happens that at that point is

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Speaker 1: when you go into one of these Chrysler cars, the

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Speaker 1: tool will ask you to log in with your auto

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Speaker 1: off I D and password. You do that, the whole

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Speaker 1: process is done. You do have to be connected the internet.

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Speaker 1: The car basically gets the access codes from the auto

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Speaker 1: off website. If it's an approved tool, tells it it's

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Speaker 1: allowed to go. And once that connection is established, at

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Speaker 1: that point you don't even have to remain on the internet.

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Speaker 1: So a technician can take a car on a test

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Speaker 1: drive as long as he doesn't disconnect from the car.

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Speaker 1: Any time you disconnected, Radio Cup, you've got to do

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Speaker 1: that access process again and start the process all over again. Um.

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Speaker 1: I cheated Mike, and I went ahead to the autel

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Speaker 1: dot com website and I have to say, you've got

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Speaker 1: a very nice you know, you guys did a lot

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Speaker 1: of good work there. You've laid out a very nice procedure.

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Speaker 1: You explain it in detail everything you just said in

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Speaker 1: more um with pictures and explanations. And so if there's

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Speaker 1: any technicians out there, any shop owners out there that

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Speaker 1: are trying to register their tools, and hopefully they're hotels right, um,

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Speaker 1: you know we uh, you've kind of got the process

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Speaker 1: all laid out. Now. What one of the other things

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to cover if I could today with

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Speaker 1: you is I had heard a rumor that some of

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Speaker 1: the scan tool manufacturers are are looking to do some

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Speaker 1: things regarding um uh. If subscriptions aren't current, they may

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Speaker 1: change the way guys approach the Chrysler gateway. And I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what. Let's pull over and take a pause.

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Speaker 1: We'll answer that question when we come back. If maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a yes, maybe it's a no, but whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: let's do when we get back. I'm here today with

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Speaker 1: Michael Flink of autel ron and any in the car

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Speaker 1: doctorate your service and will be back right after this.

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Speaker 1: Don't go away, that's right. If you call and we're

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Speaker 1: not live, you can leave a message and we'll call

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Speaker 1: you back to get you on the air with RONO

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Speaker 1: nine zero zero. Speaking of Ron, There he is, and

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Speaker 1: welcome back. We're here talking with Michael Flink of Autel Diagnostics.

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Speaker 1: Mike um let me ask the question a different way,

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Speaker 1: so I've when we left, I was talking about I'd

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Speaker 1: heard a rumor that the industry is going to require

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Speaker 1: current subscriptions to maintain a link to things such as

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Speaker 1: the Christis Secure gateway, and you know, it probably wasn't

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Speaker 1: a fair comment to say, is that fair or not?

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Speaker 1: In thinking about it, probably the concern is that everybody

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Speaker 1: needs to have their scan tool's current because they're missing

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Speaker 1: out on certain things that might otherwise not let them

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Speaker 1: and help them fix the car. Right. Well, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: absolutely true round and to your point with the UH

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Speaker 1: Chrysler service and there's other ones, KEYA has an encryption

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Speaker 1: code piece that we've got built into the autails, but

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Speaker 1: it requires a connection to the same server that is

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Speaker 1: where the update subscriptions are done. So you do have

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Speaker 1: to have that current subscription in order to get that

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Speaker 1: access through the server and then to Chrysler's auto author

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Speaker 1: for the KEYA encryption and other car manufactures to it.

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Speaker 1: But you make a great point with this constant change.

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Speaker 1: If the software in your tool isn't the latest software.

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Speaker 1: They really can't allow that access to these sites and

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Speaker 1: encryptions because they've got to make sure what's accessing the

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Speaker 1: car is one correct and and changes are happening today

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Speaker 1: in this software and things that they're doing with things

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Speaker 1: like aids, the driver assistant systems and that where even

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Speaker 1: older model cars are having changes as the manufacturers adjust

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Speaker 1: things for these pieces in this technology where updates are

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Speaker 1: more important to stay current that they were many years

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Speaker 1: ago when we had the habit of only updating every

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Speaker 1: other year because it was just new model your information.

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Speaker 1: Now it's a whole different world and it's really important

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Speaker 1: to have that current update and subscription on your tour.

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Speaker 1: Now you're now you are solving problems on cars we

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Speaker 1: couldn't get into because the manufacturer changed the software. So

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Speaker 1: you're making changes to your software to allow us to

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Speaker 1: get back into that system or to solve a problem,

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Speaker 1: to fix the car for the customer. So we we

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Speaker 1: fixed that car and go onto the next one. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, I always used the example. You know, I

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Speaker 1: recently updated my cell phone and I had to update

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Speaker 1: my banking app. And right after I did that, my

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Speaker 1: banking app stopped working. And when I called the bank app,

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Speaker 1: you know the bank, they said, oh, yeah, the update. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I said, okay, well here we're sending out a patch

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Speaker 1: because here's the software up update to the to the

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Speaker 1: app update. They're updating it for the new operating system

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Speaker 1: because from the cell phone manufacturer, you needed this, we

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Speaker 1: had that. Now you need this to go with that

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Speaker 1: and that and this. And cars are the same way

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Speaker 1: in that sense. And if you don't have a current

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Speaker 1: subscription with autel or whoever your scan to a manufacturer is,

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Speaker 1: you may not be able to fix that car. Worse,

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Speaker 1: you may get into the middle of it and be

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Speaker 1: stuck halfway through a repair process. Yeah. Absolutely. And another

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Speaker 1: example is I mentioned the AD system, the driver assistance systems.

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Speaker 1: The car manufacturer may figure out over time that the

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Speaker 1: way they aimed the radar or the camera, it might spot, ah,

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Speaker 1: what large side of a bridge of a bridge as

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Speaker 1: you're going underneath it when you're doing an underpass, and

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Speaker 1: react to it. So they'll adjust that calibration or the

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Speaker 1: heightened set up information for it. And if you haven't

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Speaker 1: kept your scanner up to date, you're doing the adjustment

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Speaker 1: to that car. To the old information that the manufacturer

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Speaker 1: figured out didn't work as well, and so you're using

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Speaker 1: data information and you're not really doing the right job

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Speaker 1: for your customer either. Do you see the need for

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Speaker 1: software increasing? I know the answer to this, Mike uh

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Speaker 1: As as the electric car becomes more and more predominant,

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Speaker 1: is it just going to become something we absolutely have

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Speaker 1: to have now to work, we have to be cutting edge,

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Speaker 1: to work on cutting edge, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we're going to see it, especially getting into some of

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Speaker 1: the electric vehicles that are leading technology UM. Tesla is

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Speaker 1: a brand that we all know about. Tesla's had multiple

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Speaker 1: recalls or things that they've adapted and fixed that they

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Speaker 1: actually do through what they call an over the air programming,

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Speaker 1: so you haven't even had to take your car into

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Speaker 1: the dealership to get the software updated in that car UM.

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Speaker 1: So that we're going to see more and more of

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Speaker 1: that kind of technology. A way to think about it

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Speaker 1: is parts and sensors that we changed ten, twelve, fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago on a car to fix a problem. Now

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Speaker 1: they simply adjust how the computer takes the data from

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Speaker 1: that sensor, and so they're able to execute a repair

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Speaker 1: or do a technical service bullet and simply through programming

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Speaker 1: or adjustments that are made through a stand tool or

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Speaker 1: diagnostic connection. And they're gonna do that probably while the

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Speaker 1: car is home charging or you know, not an operation

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Speaker 1: for X number of time period, and you'll you'll never

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Speaker 1: be the wiser, although I guess they'll give you some

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Speaker 1: kind of a notification UM to let you know. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Mike before I let you go, real quick, I hear

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Speaker 1: good things about you. Guys have made some changes now

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Speaker 1: in the area of battery testing. Um. Didn't you just

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Speaker 1: you just came out with a new battery test tool

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Speaker 1: that does some really neat things for the industry. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk about that real quick for a minute? Sure? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: round So yeah, ONTIL introduced last year a line of

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Speaker 1: battery testers, and what we did is similar to what

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Speaker 1: we've done with the tire pressure monitoring systems and tools. Um.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we introduced state of the art using what

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Speaker 1: they call adaptive conductance. So rather than doing the old

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Speaker 1: load style testing UM that we all were familiar with

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Speaker 1: the year for years that removed energy from the battery

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Speaker 1: and doing the test, this conductance testing kind of uses

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Speaker 1: an algorithm and a signal going through and across the

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Speaker 1: battery more accurate. It can test a discharge battery. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it can give more accurate results, adapted to it and

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Speaker 1: able to be repeatable. So we've used that technology that

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Speaker 1: has been out there. The adaptive side of it is

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Speaker 1: that we do change that algorithm based on both the

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Speaker 1: batteries temperature and state of charge, so it's a much

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Speaker 1: more accurate test. But today's cars, as we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about technology, you can't simply just swap a battery anymore.

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Speaker 1: There are resets to the computers and other things that

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Speaker 1: have to be done, and the car's computers are actually

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Speaker 1: controlling the charge from the alternator. So you have to

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Speaker 1: register the fact that you've installed a new battery so

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Speaker 1: that that alternator charging pattern changes for a new battery

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Speaker 1: versus an old one, or your battery life when your

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Speaker 1: new one will be compromised that might overcharge it. So

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Speaker 1: the technology of scanduls had to be used along with

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Speaker 1: a battery tester to do this service. What Autil has

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Speaker 1: done is combined our knowledge of doing die agnostics computer

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Speaker 1: resets with our battery test technology so that a single

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Speaker 1: device or BT six O eight enables the technician to

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Speaker 1: perform the battery test and a starter alternator test on

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Speaker 1: voltage and then helps them through the steps of doing

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Speaker 1: the computer resets and registering the battery. We've put it

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Speaker 1: all together in a single device for them to give

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Speaker 1: them a easy solution. We've even put in menus there

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Speaker 1: that will tell them the location of the battery and

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Speaker 1: the correct battery size and capacity based on the bc

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Speaker 1: I Battery Council Internationals recommendations for the model. You guys

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Speaker 1: are so cutting edge, it just it just amazes me.

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Speaker 1: And I love that your comment, and I've been preaching

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Speaker 1: that lately. You just don't throw a battery in a

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Speaker 1: car anymore. It's the there's so much more involved in

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Speaker 1: it that um, it's just it's just it's really become

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Speaker 1: a process, and that's by virtue of the technology, and

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Speaker 1: there's just no way around it. Micah, was a pleasure, sir.

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Speaker 1: It was an absolute pleasure to have you. If the

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Speaker 1: listeners are looking for more information, can you tell us

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Speaker 1: the website if it's www dot show a u g

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Speaker 1: el dot com. Cool beans. We look forward to good

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Speaker 1: things from you guys to continue and as always, it's

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Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Michaell talk again. Real soon you have

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Speaker 1: a good rest of the day. You bet you two,

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Speaker 1: and thank you Ron. You're very welcome, sir. I'm running

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Speaker 1: any in the Car Doctor. I'll be back right after this.

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Speaker 1: Don't go away, welcome back when name of the Car Doctor.

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Speaker 1: You know, I know the digital age is upon us,

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Speaker 1: or has been upon us for quite some time. And

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Speaker 1: we're talking about technology today as always, and you know

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Speaker 1: it's you'll find all your answers online or in the

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Speaker 1: Google machine, is we like to say sometimes, But you

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Speaker 1: know what, there is something really nice about sitting down

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Speaker 1: and curling up and cuddling up with a nice hardcover

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Speaker 1: book about cars, and it might be your favorite. And uh,

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Speaker 1: this one might be your favorite because it's the complete

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Speaker 1: book of Ford Mustang. And here to talk to us

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Speaker 1: about it is Mike Muller. Mike's no no, no stranger

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Speaker 1: to this show. We've had Mike gone before and I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to have him back. Mike. How are you today? Oh? Fantastic,

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Speaker 1: glad to be back. Um, you know you've been doing this.

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Speaker 1: Let me give you some some of your credits out here.

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Speaker 1: You're a lifetime car enthusiast. You've been doing this since

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Speaker 1: ninety one. As far as being an automotive photojournalist. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you've written so many books and so many different

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Speaker 1: topics about the automotive industry, the classics and so forth.

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Speaker 1: What inspired you to write a book about Mustang? Because

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Speaker 1: was there a Mustang in Mike Muller's history somewhere? It

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Speaker 1: has to be. I was gonna say, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know the this is about the Mustang book. But I've

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Speaker 1: always loved all cars, and even in my career of ownership,

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Speaker 1: I never really have picked on any one brand, although

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Speaker 1: I have owned a lot of Fords. That that that's

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Speaker 1: just the luck of the draw. But but let's see

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Speaker 1: how my my sister was a year older me, and

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Speaker 1: her first car was a sixty five Mustang. My brother

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Speaker 1: had a sixty seven that he gave to me that

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Speaker 1: I drove through college. And of course they were just

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Speaker 1: so plentiful, I mean they were they were good used

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Speaker 1: cars back then. Ums. It's hard to believe they were

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Speaker 1: so plentiful at one point, right, Um No, Well, gosh,

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Speaker 1: they nineteen sixty six. They spit out six hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: of them, you know, So if you just followed along

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Speaker 1: that that it was, it's understandable they were building, they

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00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: were selling a lot of them back then. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they showed up The Mustang started sixty four and a half, correct,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a big deal at the World's

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Speaker 1: Fair in New York. Into the book and um, the

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Speaker 1: way you've documented the history. If you're a Mustang guy,

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Speaker 1: this is the book to have or Mustang Gal, Mustang

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Speaker 1: Sally right. Um, you know it's it's when when when

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Speaker 1: you when you put together a book like this, you

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Speaker 1: know what's the because I can look at it in

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Speaker 1: the color pictures, in the way everything is laid out,

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Speaker 1: and it's so chronological, and there's just so many little

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Speaker 1: tidbits packed in there, things that you just couldn't possibly know.

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Speaker 1: The average person couldn't possibly know. Where do you find

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Speaker 1: all this information? And how do you come up with

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Speaker 1: all these stories? Well, um, part of it is is,

395
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Speaker 1: like you said, I've had a lot of experience at

396
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Speaker 1: this and actually my career goes back to my college days.

397
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Speaker 1: Is when I became a freelancer. My graduated University of

398
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Speaker 1: Illinois and eighty three with a journalism degree, and I

399
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Speaker 1: was selling magazine pieces to our car pieces to car magazines. Then, um,

400
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Speaker 1: I found out that God, life could be easy. I

401
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Speaker 1: didn't know that people would buy that stuff. But no, always,

402
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Speaker 1: my you know, my only my everyone and my family

403
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Speaker 1: were car guys. My dad taught us mechanics and and um,

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Speaker 1: so you know, I started learning about cars right away.

405
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Speaker 1: And then of course, once I uh, you know, I

406
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Speaker 1: I fell in love with cards I saw on the street.

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Speaker 1: I pardon me for saying this, but my earliest memory

408
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Speaker 1: before the age of five is when I saw the

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Speaker 1: first nineteen six Corvette Stingray. And I don't remember anything else,

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Speaker 1: but I remember seeing that car as a four year

411
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Speaker 1: old kid. But yeah, must thing's just one of them.

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Speaker 1: I loved doll cars and so got My brothers were

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Speaker 1: car guys, and they started learning about them, and we

414
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Speaker 1: started learning about them before we were old enough to

415
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Speaker 1: learn anything else. How long did it take you to

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Speaker 1: write the book? Oh, gosh, well this this book was

417
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: originally put together for oh seven, Um, and I can't recall.

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Speaker 1: I've done so many books. I can't recall. It's a

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Speaker 1: couple of months of work. But but again, I had

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Speaker 1: been writing for a Lost Thing monthly magazine. I worked

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Speaker 1: there when I was young. Um, I had written so

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Speaker 1: much stuff over the years that once the time came to,

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Speaker 1: uh do this book, it's just pulling things together and

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Speaker 1: refining and digging some more. Um, I had the groundwork laid.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it that way, right, because this is the

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Speaker 1: updated book. You this book originally came out a while ago,

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Speaker 1: and now this is the updated version of Right. You've

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Speaker 1: you've got additions and fresh fresh info, French fresh pictures. Uh.

429
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's just basically another book in

430
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: a sense. It's it's an add on to it, um

431
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: to to what you originally had. And I think that's great.

432
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: You know what, just keep the information flowing because, as

433
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: I said, there's nothing better than sitting down with a

434
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 1: book on a rainy day and a cup of coffee

435
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: and just looking at pictures. There's something, you know, very

436
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: settling about that. There's something romantic almost, there's a mystique

437
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: to it. Uh to get to know the book and

438
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: see what's out there. Um, you know it makes a

439
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: great doorstop. Yeah, if it ever it gets or I

440
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: could hit Tom in the head with it. Um if

441
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: the board, Um, you know, wake up tom My producer.

442
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: But you know he does fall asleep on the show.

443
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: But that's only because I'm so boring to listen to,

444
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: so I know how that goes. Um, you know when

445
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: you were talking to Ford, you know Ford, I'm sure

446
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: it was very cooperative because of your name and what

447
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: you're what you're writing about. Um, did you see some

448
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: things or learn some things about the Mustang that that

449
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: surprised you that you weren't aware of at the time. Well,

450
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: over the years, like to say, the different de renditions

451
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: of this, yeah, I've I've had the opportunity, um, back

452
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: when I was younger and still really heavily involved in

453
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: in in the automotive journalism where I'm kind of retired

454
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: now so I'm not in the loop like I used

455
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: to be. But they used to let me. I used

456
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: to have friends up there, and uh, you know, I

457
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: could tell you some stories, but then I'd have to

458
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: kill you. Well, oh, tell us anybody come on, Mike. Oh,

459
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean I got to see some of the cars

460
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: before release. I remember when the g T five hundred,

461
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: I had friends at Ford Special Vehicle Team and it

462
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: was under development and I was up there to photograph

463
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: something else. I forget an engine, and they had to

464
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: take me into the into the deep dark laboratory, and

465
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: they made me promise not to use my camera and

466
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: be not speak to anyone I knew, And of course

467
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: a lot of times you did have to sign things. Yeah,

468
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: And I used to get cars to drive. The one

469
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: year I got a ninety six I think it was

470
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: a ninety Cobra convertible, the only one in existence. It

471
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: was a pre production model. And um, I was driving

472
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: across country and I actually stopped at a gas station

473
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: out in Texas, West Texas, and some Department of Interior

474
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: cop pulled over and he actually knew what it was.

475
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: He says, you can't be driving, that it's not out yet.

476
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: You know. I was kind of impressed that he knew

477
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: enough about cars to recognize this was a brand new model.

478
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: Was it? Was it? What what made him ployee over

479
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 1: the lack of life? Oh? No, I was sitting at

480
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: a gas station. The funny thing was we were the

481
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: only two guys alive out in West Texas. There were

482
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: no one else, and I was sitting a gas station.

483
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: He had seen me on the interstate and he just

484
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: pulled in behind me because he wanted to chat about it.

485
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: You know, So what do you what do you drive today? Mike, Um,

486
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of Mustangs today. My girlfriend drives

487
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: UT convertible anniversary car that she she ran out and

488
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: bought that car new. Looking over my shoulder during the

489
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: last update of this book, I had it up on

490
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: the screen and she fell in love with it and

491
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: went out to the dealership the next day and came

492
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: home with a GT convertible fiftieth anniversary car. And I've

493
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: got an I've got an OH seven convertible that was

494
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: my dad's. It was his retirement kift. He uh. We

495
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: lost him last year and he gave me the car

496
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago to keep it in warmer

497
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: climbs and and believe it or not, don't laugh out

498
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: there in the garage that the vehicle that I drive

499
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: to death is an OH four cop car, a Crown

500
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: vic Lex Sport that I bought new eighteen years ago

501
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: and it's still going strong and again I use it

502
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: like a truck. And I just I just can't bear

503
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: the thought of not living with a rear drive V eight,

504
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: big comfortable car. So listen, I get that, you know what.

505
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: To you, it's just an old car. It's it's it's

506
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you what. Mike, Sit tight. Let's

507
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: let me pull over and take a pause, and we'll

508
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: come back and continue our conversation. I'm Ron any of

509
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: the Car Doctor. I'm here right now with Mike Muller.

510
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: He's written a book, The Complete Book of Ford Mustang.

511
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: We'll both return right after this. Don't go away, then,

512
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: welcome back. Why name the card doctor? Sitting here chatting

513
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: with Mike Muller's always a good conversation. Mike's most recent

514
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: book is an update to his book, The Complete Book

515
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: of Ford Mustang. Mike, Um, you know there's a there's

516
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: a halt following to the Mustang. Fair statement. Yeah has been, Yeah,

517
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: always has been. You know, what do you think? And

518
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: I don't know this is a fair question to ask,

519
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: but you know, Mustang, Camaro, Corvette. Some cars just click

520
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: and some cars don't. What is it? What? What is

521
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: it that makes a car click? What makes what makes

522
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: a Mustang a Mustang? Why does everybody want one? That

523
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: wants one? Well, that's that's kind of a tough question

524
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: now because you're talking about such aging legacies. Uh um.

525
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: You know, the the world is changing, The car world

526
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: is changing. Uh Um? God, Like, what we just talked

527
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: about when I was a kid, you could love a

528
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: car and you could actually go out and buy one

529
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: as a kid and work on it. And that's not

530
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: the case today. Um. I don't know if we could

531
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: replicate what happened when Mustang came out sixty four and

532
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: Camaro came out in sixty seven. Times are completely different.

533
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about is there's the legacy

534
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: is still running strong, the memories are still there. How quickly, um,

535
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: all the cult followers are dying off? That remains to

536
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: be the question. Um. I mean, obviously, you know, internal combustion.

537
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,239
Speaker 1: The days are numbered. We're going to be running from

538
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: got to figure out something new sometime here soon. Um. Yeah.

539
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: So I put it this way, and people will always

540
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: take it wrong when I say it, But I'm just

541
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: glad that at my age that I'm going to be

542
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: gone before things change anymore. Yeah, I can understand that,

543
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: Uh you know, but will well, when when this generation goes,

544
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: when the generation that loves this Mustang goes, well, the

545
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: next generation pick it up, you think, or do they

546
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: just see it as something It's just to them, it's

547
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: just an overpriced old car. It was dad's car. It

548
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything to him. Yeah, that's a very good question.

549
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: And that's why I consider myself being tooled for this world. U.

550
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: I haven't gone out and talked to enough young people. Now.

551
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Most of the young guys I see, I've got a

552
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: couple here on my street. The cars they play with

553
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: are mostly four cylinders. You know, of course those are

554
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: the cars they can afford. Um, you can hot rod

555
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: four cylinders and there's there's there's nothing wrong with that

556
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: that there's something he said, it's still playing. Yeah, but

557
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: that's the cars. That's the Mustangs of today. Um you know, um,

558
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: like I said, I had a Mustang when I was

559
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: in college when I when I sold it, I sold

560
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: it for fifty bucks you know. Yeah, it was a

561
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: used up, used car back then. Now, my friend, um My,

562
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: one of one of my dearest friends, Jimmy's got an

563
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: original sixty six Shelby GT. Three fifty that in nineteen

564
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: sixty nine, he was pumping gas at a local service

565
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: station and this fellow check that owned it came in

566
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: and as Jimmy, hey, do you want to buy this?

567
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: And Jimmy said, it was like somebody telling me. My

568
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: sisters Raquel Welsh and she needs a date, he said,

569
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: I just the new I just I just knew I

570
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: had to have the car. I think, without telling tales,

571
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: I think Jimmy paid like for it in sixty nine.

572
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: And you know, it's just you can't imagine what it's

573
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: worth today. It's still an original car. It's all there.

574
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: It's um, I get to see it all the time,

575
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: I get to drive it. I get to you know,

576
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: and I it's so different than the newer performance cars.

577
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: You know, a news Shelby from Ford or new Mustang

578
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: from four. You know, you can do excess of a

579
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: hundred miles an hour, one finger on the wheel, air

580
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: conditioning on radio blasting. And you know, back then those

581
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: cars you were hanging on for dear life and white

582
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: knuckle ride all the way you know to the other end. Um,

583
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: very very different, very very different. Still a lot of

584
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: money in nine. Yeah, but yeah, it is funny to

585
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: consider the relative scales of things. But um, there's they're

586
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: all dying off now. But so I mentors, the guys

587
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: who guided me when I was young, Um, so many

588
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: of them. I had the stories of those very same

589
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: stories of buying these collector cars when they were still

590
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: it's just kind of old cars and a couple of

591
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: them that had hung onto them forever up until they died,

592
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: and they had original had a friend who had an original,

593
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: um a c Cobra um uh Shelby Cobra Ford powered

594
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: thing and it was untouched original And I don't know

595
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: where that car went. Of course once he died, undoubtedly

596
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: went for a fortune. And maybe that's maybe that's what

597
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: puts it out of the reach of the kids today

598
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: that um, you know, they're just they don't have that

599
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: half a million dollars. Hey, Mike the clock. We're up

600
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: against the clock. I gotta go. Where can the listeners

601
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: go get if they want to purchase the complete history

602
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: of the Ford Mustang? Where can they get the book?

603
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: And uh, where's it available? Amazon? Well, like any like

604
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: anything anything Amazon, But if you want to buy it

605
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: from a yeah, Amazon is the best thing. Yeah. If

606
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: they stick with that, Okay, we'll leave it there. Um

607
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: as always, sir, you're always you're always welcome back and

608
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: we appreciate your time. Come on back, Let's do another interview,

609
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: write another book and uh, we'll talk about it all right, kiddo.

610
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: If I live long enough now you'll live long enough.

611
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: Come on, stop thinking like that. I want to see

612
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: what the next book is. So all right, you'd be well, Mike.

613
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: You'll take good care. Always a pleasure, sir. I'm on

614
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: naming the car Doctor. Will be back right after this.

615
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Ron and Nady in the Car Doctor. I

616
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: want to say thank you to Mike Mueller regarding his

617
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: conversation with us about Mustang, and also to Michael Flink

618
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: from autell Um. Two very good conversations that we had today, Uh,

619
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: talking about cars and technology and how things have evolved

620
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 1: and changed. Tom, do you remember your um? Do you

621
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,239
Speaker 1: remember ever seeing a Mustang as a kid? I mean,

622
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: what was your impression? Do you have any memories that

623
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: far back? Oh? Yeah, I love that car. Um. Matter

624
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: of fact, guy, I used to own a radio station.

625
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: We worked for had several old ones, and uh, when

626
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: I was six, not sixteen, seventeen years old, I was

627
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: working at one of the stations in Hartford and Uh,

628
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: he showed up on a real hot day. I was outside.

629
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: He tosses me the keys to this convertible classic Mustang

630
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: and says, go get a soda. It's like, seriously, Mustang

631
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: was gorgeous and there there was just there was something,

632
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, and about it. I remember my father's best friend,

633
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: and I'm so now I'm going back, right my dad,

634
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: Uh he was Harry, and my father had a friend Seymour,

635
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: and they were these two were like they were sort

636
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: of like Fred and Barney or Ralph and Norton, all right,

637
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: a couple of Brooklyn boys. And uh, they were mechanics

638
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: out at LaGuardia Airport. Idlewhile I'm sorry, idlewhile idle, while

639
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to Leoguardia. I'm trying to remember now.

640
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Speaker 1: I think it was LaGuardia actually, um during the war

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Speaker 1: and later on they were airline mechanics, and I mean,

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00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: wherever these two went, mischief sort of went with it.

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00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: And one day one A Seymour showed up at the

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Speaker 1: house with a brand spanking new sixty eight Mustang convertibly

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Speaker 1: yellow brown boot, brown gut right bucket seats and took

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Speaker 1: me off for a ride. We're driving down the highway

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Speaker 1: and all he's doing is slowing down and putting his

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Speaker 1: foot through the floor, yelling Getty up, Getty up, Getty up.

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Speaker 1: Because it's a Mustang. I just want an impression on

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Speaker 1: a young kid. And here I am talking about cars

651
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: and fixing them until the next time I'm running any

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Speaker 1: in the car doctor looking up saying I gotta go.

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Speaker 1: Good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See you