1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. This Charles W. Chuck Bryant. 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: You can probably hear his forehead and scraping against his 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: mic cover. You do not feel like doing us today? Do? No, 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna do it anyway. I mean, yes, we do 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: not know we do? You can't affirm with the negative, 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: yes we don't. Well, there it is Chuck, the cleverest 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: banter we will ever have. Um. Hey, how are you? 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm fine, man, I'm feeling aggressive. I 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: want to punch something. You've been playing violent video games, 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: and I've been reading about people playing violent video games. 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: It's apparently the magic bullet. It's what really makes you 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: aggressive reading about that kind of thing. Oh, reading about yeah, 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: articles on that sure. Yeah, so we need to be 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: watching out for um. Yeah, people who read like parenting 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: sections on like HuffPo or MSNBC, or like some of 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: the most violent criminals now because of those um, Chuck, 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: are you familiar with a little country called Germany? Mm? 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: Hmm yeah, old Uh is that that's Russian, isn't it? 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: That's Germany. I don't know if you've noticed this' not chuck, 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: but over the last few weeks, I've gotten increasingly dumber. 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: Have you picked up on that? Who you have? I have? UM? 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: I don't really know. My the frequency of mispronouncing words 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: has just gone up dramatically, which is really saying something. Um. 27 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: Uh getting language is wrong, as I just did. That's 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: a big one. Uh fallen asleep in the middle of 29 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: stuff like I'm about to right now. Okay, Uh, chuck, 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: you've heard of Germany? Uh. In two thousand six, late 31 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: two thousand six, there was some thing of a fairly 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: radical proposal that came up from the representatives of Bavaria 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: and Lower Saxony get those two together. Things happen normally, 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: not in this case, but normally. The representatives proposed a 35 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: bill that would offer fines of uh. Well, I don't 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: know how much the fines were, but the penalty of 37 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: jail time up to twelve months for um may I 38 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: quote uh, cruel violence on humans or human looking characters 39 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: inside games. So creating a game inside games, yes, said, yeah, 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: that's funny. Creating a game where there is violence violence 41 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: can happen, or playing a video game and inflicting violence 42 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: virtual violence could get your twelve months in jail, according 43 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: to these guys. So you can't play Call of Duty 44 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: you would spend the rest of your life in jail. 45 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: If these guys had had their rather radical resolution passed, 46 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: it felt flat on its face. But the whole thing 47 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: was in reaction to um the the prior month, the 48 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: spree killing or almost I guess free maiming by Sebastian Boss, 49 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: who was eighteen. He was the worst school shooter Germany 50 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: ever had. Any He wounded thirty seven people, didn't kill anybody, Um, 51 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: but he did kill himself. You you you remember he 52 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: played counter Strike a lot. I find it interesting that 53 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: he shot thirty seven people and didn't kill anyone. I'll 54 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: bet he found that something other than interesting. Did he 55 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: try to just wound? No, I know that's probably dumb question. No, 56 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: he went on a rampage and he just missed. Okay, 57 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: so anyway, this is god he well yeah, he um, 58 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: but he played a lot of counter Strike. That was 59 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: his big thing. And nowadays is you you have grown 60 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: up and since the nine and you've been paying attention, 61 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: so you know that anytime there's a spree shooting at 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: a school by a teenager, one of the first things 63 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: that comes out is what their violent video game of 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: choice was. And legislation like this out of Germany. Is 65 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: it is radical like putting someone in jail for acts 66 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: of virtual violence? Um, but it's it's getting to be 67 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: par for the course, you know, which leads us to 68 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: a very big question, though, before you start throwing people 69 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: in jail for playing video games, before creating video games, 70 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: we have to prove whether or not video games is 71 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: especially violent ones cause real life violence. And as I 72 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: learned after reading this article, the jury is very much 73 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: still out on that. Yeah, although both sides have very 74 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: persuasive arguments, and I think you should explore buff Um, 75 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's probably hard 76 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to prove anything when it comes to this. Why. Well, 77 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: because of all the reasons we're going to mention, it's 78 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: it's a very complicated issue. Yeah, Um, whether or not 79 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: that was the thing that pushed someone over the edge, 80 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: or whether or not it was an inspiration, whether or 81 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: not it had nothing to do with it. It's uh, 82 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: it's tough to prove something like that, right, And there's 83 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are like, yes, school shooters 84 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: are horrifying, They're terrifying. The idea that your kid could 85 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: go to school and get shot and killed by a 86 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: classmate on a rampage, that's that that would terrify anybody. 87 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, of course you want to get to the 88 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: root of it. But a lot of people are saying, 89 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: don't stop at video games. Even the a p A, 90 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: The American Psychological Association, UM, who are very much in 91 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: favor of the idea that violent video games cause real 92 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: life violence, say, don't just stop at video games, like 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: that's one part of a larger hole, and we've not 94 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: figured it out because video games. You can just lay 95 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: that at the feet of one thing and go back 96 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: to work. Let your let your kids go back to 97 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: playing video games. Yeah, I gotta quote, I was gonna 98 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,119 Speaker 1: hang onto this might as well read it though. UM. 99 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: There's a book written called Grand Theft Childhood, The Surprising 100 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: Truth about Violent video Games and what Parents can do, 101 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: And this is by Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen, and 102 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: they are co directors of the Harvard Medical School Center 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,239 Speaker 1: for Mental Health and media. They wrote this book. Um, 104 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: and they have a guy that they interviewed, a psychologist 105 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: who specializes in media research called Guy Cumberbatch. Wow, it 106 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: sounds like a Simpson's character. He's real though, Um And 107 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: he says, uh, and I'm gonna quote. The real puzzle 108 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: is that anyone looking at the research evidence in this 109 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: field could draw any conclusions about the pattern, let alone 110 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: argue with such confidence and even passion that demonstrates the 111 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: harmon violence on television, in film, and in video games. 112 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: While test of statistical significance are a vital tool of 113 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: the social sciences, they seem to have been more often 114 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: used in this field as instruments of torture on the 115 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: data until it confesses something which could justify publication in 116 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: a scientific journal. So basically, he's, in a very verbose way, 117 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of said, what you're saying is that it's easy 118 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: to scapegoat something like a video game by looking at 119 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: um anecdotal research. It is very easy. Um. And Also, 120 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: I think part of the reason why school shooters not 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: not just because they're so sensational they are, sure, also 122 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: because most if not all of them did play violent 123 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: video games, but also because the school shooting rampage so 124 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: closely mirrors video game action even to the casual observer. 125 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: Um that I think like it's something that's really been 126 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: zeroed in on. Well, the army uses it for training, 127 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, and so it's bound to be Uh, it's 128 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: bound to put you in that headspace which makes a 129 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: lot of sense. Sure, which is that's an argument on 130 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: the side of um people who say that, yes, video games, 131 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: violent video games create real life violence. So let's let's 132 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: explore that. Let's look at the the side that says yes, obviously, 133 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: ding Bat, if you play violent video games, you're going 134 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: to be violent. And this isn't new. By the way, 135 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: we should point out that like before video games, it 136 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: was laid at the feet of TV, well, comic books 137 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: before that, even before that. And I wondered, though, if 138 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: you go back far enough, the media is a fairly 139 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: recent thing, at least as far as like entertainment media. 140 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: So say the advent of radio, big radio in like 141 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: the twenties. Say, what did anybody blame violence on before that? Uh? 142 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: Probably the real reason, which is that some people are sociopaths. Well, 143 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: I think you you make an excellent point, Chuck, What 144 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: what you're saying, I think I tend to agree with 145 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: is that's possible in in everybody, and then probably more 146 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: possible in some of us than others. So is it 147 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: just a convergence of large public schools where you have 148 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people who you don't like sitting like 149 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: ducks in one place, and converging with access easy access 150 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: to guns? Is that all the school shooter is. It's 151 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: pretty complicated issue. Okay, so go ahead and sorry about that. 152 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: That's all right? UM, I guess we can sign a 153 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: couple of more cases that in the media at least 154 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: have placed the blame on on video games UM. In 155 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, in Alabama, Devon Moore famously ah 156 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: was arrested for car theft UM suspicion and he's eighteen. 157 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: Brought him into the station to book him, and he 158 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: kind of went nuts. He attacked the cop, stole his gun, 159 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: shot him, shot another cop, went down the hall, shot 160 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: at nine one one dispatch in the head, then grabbed 161 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: the squad car keys and took off in squad car. 162 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: That's crazy. And and what game did he play? He 163 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: played Grand Theft Auto, which is pretty much how that 164 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: game goes down, And reportedly after he was arrested. He 165 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: even said, quote life as a video game, everybody's got 166 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: to die sometime. And he was convicted and sentenced to death, 167 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: and I could not find out if he's still on 168 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: death row or if he was put to death. It's 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: so frustrating when you can't find out something that should 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: be so easy to find out. Did you try the 171 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: Alabama's Department of Corrections website. No, I mean I was 172 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: gonna call somebody, but it just ran out of time. 173 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: So at any rate, he was convicted, an appealed, and 174 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: I think that appeal was denied. But um, when this 175 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: happens a lot of times, there are lawsuits filed. In 176 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: the case of Columbine, one of the wife of a 177 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: teacher there, um sued wh she sue. She sued Sony 178 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: and Nintendo and Time Warner and Palm Pictures because, Uh, 179 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: Clibold and Harris had also watched The Basketball Die. Yeah, 180 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: you remember that party. But what's strange is that that 181 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: movie came out and with the late nineties, but the 182 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: Basketball Diaries were written by Jim Carroll and like the seventies, 183 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: maybe in the sixties, and people were thinking about doing 184 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: that back then obviously, well and also wonder and boy, 185 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna be all over the place here, but also 186 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: wonder about what constitutes as far as the lawsuit goes, 187 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: a negative correlation, Like what if someone made a movie 188 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: about the Columbine massacre and some kid watched that and 189 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: then later on did his own thing, like if something, 190 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, even if that movie decries it and shows 191 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: the repercussions, which is one of the big points that 192 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: a lot of parents make, because these video games don't 193 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: show the repercussions of these actions. It's all just fantasy. 194 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: So like, where do you draw the line there as 195 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: far as the lawsuit goes? Well, that's also a really 196 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: good question, like where do you draw the line as 197 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: far as legislation goes, Because what we're talking about here 198 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: basically is say, ultimately, the idea that if video games 199 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: cause violence in just some people banning them all together. 200 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: It's the same thing like we did with booze and prohibitions. 201 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: There are some alcoholics who couldn't help themselves to the 202 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: rest of us who weren't alcoholics could just give it up, 203 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: and let's just do that, right, But are you gonna 204 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: ban movies and TV and comic books and everywhere else 205 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: that has any kind of violence portrayed. Art think, So 206 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever going to be able to happen, 207 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: And no, I don't. I think ultimately, if you follow 208 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: that argument to its logical conclusion, now you come to 209 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: where you and I are sitting, which is, no, there's 210 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: some crazy people out there and some are kids. All right, 211 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: So should we talk about a little bit of the 212 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: studies in the science behind it. Yeah, So like on 213 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: the in the camp where they where they think that yes, 214 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: violent video games cause violence. There problem, Their most persuasive 215 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: argument is that, yes, TV has been linked to aggressive 216 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: behavior in kids. Right, TV violence has been through other studies. 217 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: They've been doing this for years and years and years. 218 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: Video games are relatively new, but um by extension, video 219 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: games should be even more prone degenerating violence in the 220 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: player because playing video games is more immersive than watching television. 221 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: You're interacting, right. Also though they're based on the reward 222 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: system of learning, right conditioning exactly, So if I if 223 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: I shoot you and behind you is like this magic donut, 224 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: and I get like, I get another life once I 225 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: grab the magic donut, right, I'm gonna shoot you, and 226 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn the next time that I need to 227 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: shoot you again to get that magic donut. Last time 228 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: I got the reward. That's a pretty broad basic example, 229 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: but the the whole point of video games is based on, 230 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: like you said, classical conditioning. They should have a podcaster 231 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: game where it's like us and Mark Marrin and Ira 232 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Glass and Jesse Thorne and we're all like out there 233 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: trying to kill each other, all right. I think that 234 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: would do us all a little good. Judge Judge John 235 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: Hodgman like presides over the whole thing. I don't know though, 236 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: Adam Carola going down, Yeah, who would you take on first? 237 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: Probably um you? It would be like um Golden Eye 238 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: and just get trapped in the corner and just keep 239 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,239 Speaker 1: shooting me and waiting for me to come back. And 240 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: one of those things where we're supposed to be teammates 241 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: and like, you know, you can kill your own guy 242 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: sometimes and what call of duty? Right? Um? I think 243 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: a lot of those games where you can partner up, 244 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: you can still shoot your partners. You used to not 245 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: be the case. Oh it would just like fire by 246 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: you or something. Yeh. You just sit there and like 247 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: kind of move a little bit, but like nothing happened 248 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: to you, It didn't have any effect on your life. 249 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: Oh good stuff. So those are two big ones there. 250 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: Immersive and they use classical conditioning. What else? Why else 251 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: would a video game cause violence more be more likely 252 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: to cause violence than just play on TV. Well, they 253 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: did one study where they actually hook kids up to 254 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: uh it didn't actually say what they just said they 255 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: scanned the brain. So I'm guessing an m R. I 256 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: UM in two thousand six at Indiana University and they 257 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: UM have them play two games, A Need for Speed 258 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: Underground and Medal of Honor colon frontline One is non 259 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: violent Need for Speed I guess, and Medal of Honor 260 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: is violent. First person shooters were talking about if you 261 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: don't know what that is, carl out from under a rock, 262 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: But it's when you are. It's the point of view 263 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: of the person walking around shooting people. Is you? Um 264 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: And the brain scans say showed that the kids who 265 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: played the violent game showed increased activity in the amygdala, 266 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: which stimulates emotion, decreased activity in the prefrontal cortext or 267 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: lobe regulates inhibition and self control. Right, you realize what 268 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you just described, right, zombie zombie. I think you're gonna 269 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: say that. But my question is is, like, wouldn't it 270 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: be more cause of concern if there was like zero 271 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: emotion going on. If these kids are playing these violent 272 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: games and make it like shut down, that would freak 273 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: me out. It's a really good point because the whole 274 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: idea behind video games is to trick the brain into 275 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: thinking that it's actually experiencing the game play. Right. I 276 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: get like I don't play much anymore, but when I 277 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: play Call of Duty, I would way get into it 278 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: and like my heart would increase, and like if someone 279 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: snuck up behind me and it was like, you know, 280 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: it puts you there. But that's to me, like the 281 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: fun of those games. Well, yeah, it's the point of them. Right, 282 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: So your fighter fight or flight response is aroused, Um, 283 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: your heart rates up, like you said, you're perspiring, you're jumpie, 284 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, But how does that translate to video games? 285 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: And I guess an even bigger question is how long 286 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: does that state of arousal last? Like if it did 287 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: trans violent, Really, the only person who's in trouble is 288 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, your big brother or your best friend who 289 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: you're playing next to, who just killed you and you 290 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: lean over and you punch them like, yeah, I've done 291 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: that before. Well that happens. Actually, I saw a bunch 292 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: of cases where and it wasn't just violent video games. 293 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: It was like people playing John Madden. Uh would like 294 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: one guy Wisconsin, I think hit his buddy with a 295 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: lead pipe, and then you know this one guy in 296 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: England attacked a kid who killed him and call of duty. 297 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: But they're like, these people are crazy and competitive and 298 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: they might do the same thing playing monopoly. So maybe 299 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: it's not violent. It's competitive video games make you violent. 300 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what we should be looking at. Mak So, right, 301 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: let's see what else, Chuck, Oh, I've got one for you. 302 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: These studies are just so awesome. Um So, especially after 303 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,239 Speaker 1: call him, I get the impression that there was like 304 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: just a rash of studies like this. And then now 305 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: the end is to go back and do meta analysis 306 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: of these studies. But um one study found that it 307 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: took kids and scored them um with like basically inherent hostility, right, 308 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: And what it found was that kids with the lowest 309 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: hostility score they were just the nicest little kids. When 310 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: they played violent video games, they were ten times more 311 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: likely to get in a physical fight than the kids 312 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: with the lowest hostility scores who didn't play violent video games. 313 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: So it was like they were thirty eight percent third 314 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: they were, they had a thirty eight percent likelihood he 315 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: getting a fight compared to like four so almost ten 316 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: times right, and then even crazier according to the study, Um, 317 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: there the kids with the lowest hostility score who played 318 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: violent video games were more likely to get in a 319 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: fight than the kids with the highest hostility scores who 320 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: didn't play violent video games at least, so it would 321 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: make nice kids bad and bad kids who didn't played 322 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: it would just they would maintain that level or whatever. 323 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: The nice kids who played them were worse than the 324 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: bad kids, worse than the worst bad kids. Interesting, Yeah, so, 325 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: like studies like these are coming out and it's making 326 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: it like more and more clear, Like yes, all right, um, 327 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: video games do cause violence, but there's a lot of 328 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: ground left to cover before that link can be made, 329 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: if it's ever made, And there's a lot of people 330 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: trying to put the reins on this, especially once we 331 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: are saying, well, you're you're looking, you're barking up the 332 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: wrong tree, Like maybe, so maybe you're even right. But 333 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: this isn't it. This isn't the one thing that's the problem. 334 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: So what are some of the criticisms of this science, 335 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: I guess explaining or showing a link between the two. Uh. Well, 336 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: one is that it's a lot of anecdotal stories. Um 337 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: this uh the same guy Cumberbatch says, um the strong 338 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: link between video games violence and real world violence, and 339 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: the conclusion that it leads to social social isolation, poor 340 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: interpersonal skills are drawn from bad and or irrelevant research, 341 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: muddle headed thinking, and unfounded simplistic news reports. So that, 342 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: for instance, in the Malvo DC sniper case, Lee Malvo, 343 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: remember that his attorney actually argued that he trained quote 344 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: unquote himself to kill by playing Halo on Xbox. Uh. 345 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: He was even quoted as saying he's trained and desensitized 346 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: with video games to shoot human forms over and over. 347 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: In actuality, Lee Malvo trained by shooting paper plates with 348 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: human faces drawn on them with real guns. Bye, what's 349 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: his face? Who's the guy? I can't remember his name? 350 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, And in Halo, you shoot this weird 351 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: looking space gun at like giant bug. So this was 352 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: even brought up in a court of law that like Halo, 353 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: led him to be a DC sniper, So it's definitely 354 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: a lot of sensationalism going on. Um. And another thing 355 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: they point out is that, ah, video game popularity and 356 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: youth violence has been going in the opposite direction statistically. 357 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: Since um it reached a peak, violent juvenile crime reached 358 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: a peak in has been in decline ever since. Between 359 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: ninety four and two thousand one, arrest for murder, forcible rape, robbery, 360 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: and aggravated assault fell fort and had the lowest juvenile 361 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: arrest rate for violent crimes since the early eighties. So ah, 362 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: you know, that seems to fly in the face of 363 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: the research at least. And the reason also people keep 364 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: picking on kids is not just because there's school shooters, 365 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: but the one of one of the assumptions that people's 366 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: trying to prove that yes, um, violent video games caused 367 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: violence is that if you are a child, you still 368 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: have a developing brain, so you're gonna be more susceptible 369 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: of that kind of classical conditioning that a violent video 370 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: game provides. The thing is is like, as of I 371 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: think two thousand and eleven, a survey of kids played 372 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: video games, the average is about nine hours a week 373 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: and then a great many of those video games are violent. 374 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: So the numbers like that, it makes you wonder why 375 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: there aren't more school shooters. Why, to make this point 376 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: in this book, not a lot more common. Yeah, why 377 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: isn't the world like millions of people play these games. 378 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: Why isn't it just violent, chaotic world out there? All this? 379 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: I might say this so again though, we should, we 380 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: should kind of bring it back a little bit, like 381 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: it's the school shooters are just like the most sensational 382 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: um thing to point to. They're also worried that like 383 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: kids are like pump punching each other more or you know, um, 384 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: knifeing each other more. And the idea behind that is 385 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: there's this thing called script theory, where um we it's 386 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: it's an extension of this thing called affect theory. Right, 387 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: We're basically like something happens to us, we have uh, 388 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: an emotional reaction to something, and it triggers a response, 389 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: a prescribed response, and it's it's fairly specific to the 390 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: human being, but it's also kind of predictable well over time. 391 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: Because remember, the brain is very lazy and likes to 392 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: chunk things and do things as efficiently as possible. The 393 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: same thing happens, Um, whenever we we come across the 394 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: same emotional stimulus, right where we build a script. Okay, 395 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: so if somebody comes up to us and we have 396 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: been trained to or we've produced a script through violent 397 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: video games where if somebody's coming at us, we have 398 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: to shoot it. The idea behind script, they very crudely 399 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: put is that, um, we would use violence, it would 400 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: trigger a violent reaction because we are script for dealing 401 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: with this has been built and compiled through violence through 402 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: violent video games. Interesting, it is interesting. Um, it's also 403 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: totally unproven. It's the problem. So, like number one, there's 404 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a there's despite all the studies, 405 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of scientific data out there that 406 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: shows yes, violent video games cause violence. Well, they'll study 407 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: like thirty kids. That's a big problem. Another one is like, 408 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: how do you quantify violence and video games? How do 409 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: you say when you're giving people, when you're testing pharmaceuticals, 410 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: you can get it down to the milligram or microgram 411 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. How do you do that with exposure to 412 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: violence in a video game? Well, yeah, because there's all 413 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: kinds of levels of violence from Mario whacking animals on 414 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: the head with mallets. H And that's That's one of 415 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: the things that this book points out is that they're 416 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: kind of getting it wrong with the ratings. The E. 417 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: S r B is who rates video games ranging from 418 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: uh early childhood rating, which is the sweetest of all ratings, 419 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: all the way to mature and adults only. UM And, 420 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: like I said, one of the problems is that people 421 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: complain that there are no repercussions in video games, but 422 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 1: they say they got it backwards and that um. In 423 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: the in the lighter rated games, like the dead bodies 424 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: just disappear instead of showing like this is a dead body, 425 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: or the blood is like super animated and not realistic. Um. 426 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: And it's basically saying no, these lighter rated games aren't 427 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: showing negative consequences. Games that do show that are more 428 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: likely to be rated M or A, which is adults only, 429 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 1: which is interesting I thought so and also um. Another 430 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: point is that the average gamer these days apparently is 431 00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: thirty so and listen as Mom's space mo, yeah he's 432 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: He's also probably not out there committing acts of violence either, right. Uh. 433 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: You know, I will say when I played like a 434 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: lot of UM, call of duty or what was the 435 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: driving one again? Grand Theft Auto that like it was 436 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: the same one I played Tetris. I had like Tetris 437 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: dreams like it. It gets into your dreams and it 438 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: like gets into your crawl. And when I'm driving around, 439 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: you have those thoughts of like, you know, bump the 440 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: sky off the road and make this move like it's 441 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: in your head, but you don't do it. You know, 442 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: like people have thoughts all the time, but that you know, 443 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: Cleibold and Harris were suicidal, depressed sociopaths. You know, they 444 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: weren't like just great kids who played college or whatever 445 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: game they accused them of playing and just decided to 446 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: shoot up their school. But that's not to say it 447 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: doesn't have some impact, you know. That's why it's such 448 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: a tough issue. Yeah, it's definitely not there's not one. 449 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: I don't think there's one side that's ever gonna be proven, right, 450 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: I think it's going to be like, yes, Okay, this 451 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: does have this effect that does have this impact on 452 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: some people more than others, because it just just from 453 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: the small amount of games that I've played, Like I 454 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: know what it's like, Yeah, you get around, you get 455 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: like excited fight or flight, and then you you start 456 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: thinking about ways to play it better when you're not 457 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: playing it. So yeah, it definitely does not It doesn't 458 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: have just an immediate effect. It definitely extends to the 459 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: rest of your life. But there is that line, and 460 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: that's what we need to explore, in my opinion, is 461 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: where that line is and how does that differ from people, 462 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: from some people to another, and how do you take 463 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: people who have the line a lot closer than it 464 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: should be an extended further out. You, my friend, have 465 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: hit on it. I think that's basically the summary of 466 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: this book is we're asking the wrong questions and looking 467 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: for the wrong uh causes. Basically, um, I'm gonna quote again. 468 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: Instead of looking for a simple direct relationship, um, in 469 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: all children, we should be asking ourselves, how might we 470 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: identify those children who are the greatest risk for being 471 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: influenced by everything from movies to the freaking news that 472 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: they watch on TV every night and then put him 473 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: in jail prematurely? I just said, freaking man, can we 474 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: do that? Now? I'm pretty hopped up? Uh So, yeah, 475 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: I think you hit on it. Like you, these games 476 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: aren't going away. Violent movies aren't going away the History Channel, 477 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: which shows more violence than anything on television in going away. Um, 478 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: none of these things are going anywhere, So maybe it's 479 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: up to the parents to get involved a little more. Yeah, 480 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: but like you have to stop watching TV to do 481 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: something like that. Ah, you got anything else right now? 482 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Well, it's a tough issue. I 483 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: get it, you know it is. This is definitely not 484 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: when we're just gonna explain everything. But I feel like 485 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: we explained both. It's right, I think so that the 486 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: people on the pro side saying hey, here's all the 487 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: science of people on the conside saying hey, you gotta 488 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: do a little better. Right, Yeah, we'll see where we 489 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: are in we'll come back here. Okay. If you want 490 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: to learn more about this, you can type violent video 491 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: games in the search bart how stuff works dot com. 492 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: It will bring up this really good article. And uh, 493 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: I said search bar, which means it's time through the listener. Mate, 494 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: Josh gonna call this gas chromatography mass spectrometer, explained, of course, 495 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: remember I brought that up in the body other thing, 496 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: and I didn't have time to look it up. Luckily 497 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: we have smart listeners. Um, guys have just heard the 498 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: Body Oder podcast. Nicely done as always. Um. In the show, 499 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you didn't have time to look up 500 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: gas chromatography mass spectrometer. Is there not an abbreviation for that? 501 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: We call it gc M s Um, this is exactly 502 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: the type of situation I'd be glad to help. And 503 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: he's basically offering his services in the future too. It's 504 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: like wherever, Like, uh, I don't time, he said, just 505 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: pick up the phone. I'll explain it to you. So 506 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: who He's an associate professor of physics at Thomas Moore 507 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: College in Kentucky. That's awesome, um, And he says in 508 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: a single sentence, a gas chromatography mass but trometer is 509 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: essentially a machine for identifying the composition of molecules and 510 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: a sample, which you clearly presume. In a brief essence, 511 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: he says this. It has two parts, the gas chromatograph, 512 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: which essentially breaks a sample into its component molecules and 513 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: admits them on a delay based on their chemical properties, 514 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: and then the mass spectrometer, which essentially finds the mass 515 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: of the molecule. The combination of these processes identifies some 516 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: molecular makeup. The amount of each type of molecule of 517 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: the sample. And he said this only and then he 518 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: had a longer version to which I read, but I'm 519 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: not free now, and he said. This took me about 520 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen minutes to type out. Guys, I hope 521 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: it encourages you to ask if you need a short 522 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: overview of some minor detail. My goal in this offer 523 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: is to maximize a number of times kids are exposed 524 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: to the idea that the world around me is understandable. 525 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: And he would be happy to donate his time to 526 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: help us out in the future. This guy would make 527 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: a great mascot, It's right. That is Joe Christensen of 528 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: Thomas Moore College. The fighting jeez, I don't know if 529 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: they have it sounds like a smart school. I don't 530 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: know if they have sports. Thomas More, He wasn't the 531 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: wong with the social contract prest View Hills, Kentucky. Yeah, 532 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: that's not where the social contract came from, but it's 533 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: upheld there every day. That's right, Thank you very much, 534 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Professor Christensen. Let's say sure, thanks, professor Um and I 535 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: think we will take you up on your offer at 536 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: some point. Um. Let's see, uh, if you ever want 537 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: to explain something to us. We're always in the market 538 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: for that kind of thing. Specifically, I would love it 539 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: if somebody can explain to me what's so great about 540 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: prog rock because I don't get it. Um. You can 541 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: tweet to us at s y s K podcast, You 542 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: can go on to Facebook with its stupid timeline at 543 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know, and you 544 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: can email us at Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com 545 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 546 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot Com. Brought to you by 547 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, Are you