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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, thank you for joining us here. On

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Speaker 1: December thirty first, the end of the western calendar year.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot of people will look back on a year,

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Speaker 1: and especially around this time, we'll start thinking about the future.

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Speaker 1: This made us think of a series we did beginning

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Speaker 1: in August of twenty twenty about precognition, about the idea

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Speaker 1: of having a dream that violates linear time.

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Speaker 2: Right, be it a dream or taking a step further

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Speaker 2: a premonition. I think it's also appropriate in these holiday times,

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Speaker 2: thinking about like Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol and ebeneze

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Speaker 2: rescrewed flying through the various versions of what his life

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Speaker 2: might hold, where he'd to go down certain paths.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we got a fresh sign of twelve months on

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Speaker 3: the way. What will they hold you guys more Epstein file.

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Speaker 1: We dive into the science of dreams, right. I think

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Speaker 1: we were all surprised to learn that modern human science

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Speaker 1: doesn't fully understand what happens when you pass out, you know,

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Speaker 1: for your three to twelve hours every twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Apaolo, Let's keep it in This is our

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Speaker 1: classic episode. Joined us after this in oh January first,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six for have dreams really predicted the future?

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Speaker 4: Chapter two? For now, let's roll the tape.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 5: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

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Speaker 2: Name is Nolah.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul,

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Speaker 1: Mission control decand most importantly, you are you. You are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Let's begin today's episode, which gets very strange, with a

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Speaker 1: question Fello listeners, what's the most vivid dream you've ever experienced?

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Speaker 1: You know, for many people this answer will come to

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Speaker 1: your mind immediately in a flash of images, sensations, or

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Speaker 1: emotions that are often almost indistinguishable from experiences in the

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Speaker 1: waking world. Before the dawn of recorded history, these things

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Speaker 1: called dreams haunted us, They inspired, terrified, and guided our ancestors.

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Speaker 1: And dreams, you know, everyone knows they're often central plot

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Speaker 1: points in ancient myths, and who hasn't, of course, heard

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Speaker 1: the more modern tales of a visionary scientist, an inventor

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Speaker 1: and artist, a writer, or someone receiving inspiration and suddenly

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Speaker 1: solving a problem in a dream and having a real

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Speaker 1: solution to a problem when they wake up. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: dreams have been pivotal throughout the span of human existence,

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Speaker 1: and we still don't understand them. We still don't completely

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Speaker 1: get what's happening with dreams. We know they tell us

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Speaker 1: about the past, we know they recontextualize the present, but

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Speaker 1: could they also tell us about the future?

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Speaker 4: Here are the.

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Speaker 3: Facts, My goodness, you know, I don't want to lose

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Speaker 3: any time here, but I have a reoccurring dream when

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Speaker 3: I'm very stressed out where I am physically jumping across

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Speaker 3: asteroids that are flowing at me, or like moving towards me.

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Speaker 3: You guys, have any like stressed dreams that you've ever

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Speaker 3: had like that or maybe a positive.

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Speaker 2: Wad, Dude, I have this recurring dream where I'm like

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Speaker 2: I've made it, my band has made it, and we're

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Speaker 2: like playing before you know, the biggest crowd I've ever

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Speaker 2: seen in the entire history of playing music, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know any of the songs. I'm like dreadfully underprepared,

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Speaker 2: or maybe like I'm in the arcade fire cool and

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Speaker 2: I just freeze. I don't know any of the songs

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Speaker 2: I have that dream a lot. What does it mean, guys?

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Speaker 2: What does it mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, hopefully today we're gonna find out, because we do

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Speaker 3: know what dreams are, or at least we have a

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Speaker 3: pretty good understanding of what they are. A fancy way

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Speaker 3: to phrase it would be something like dreams are patterns

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Speaker 3: of information, specifically something that we have taken in as

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Speaker 3: sensory information, and the dream occurs when the brain is

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Speaker 3: in a resting state and somehow using this information and

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Speaker 3: making essentially a story or at least patterns from it.

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Speaker 1: And if we want to be a little more blunt

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Speaker 1: about it, dreams are hallucinations. They take every box for

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Speaker 1: everything that's ever been described as a hallucination. And we've

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Speaker 1: talked about it in previous episodes, But if you describe

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Speaker 1: the process of dreaming or even just sleeping to some

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Speaker 1: life form that had never encountered it, it sounds so bizarre.

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Speaker 1: We've just all sort of accepted that anywhere from four

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Speaker 1: to eight hours out of every twenty four hours, we

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Speaker 1: will we will pass out, our bodies will be useless,

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Speaker 1: we'll go into some weird other world and then we

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Speaker 1: gain control of our body again and everybody acts like

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Speaker 1: nothing happened.

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Speaker 4: It's odd, right.

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Speaker 3: And every once in a while we encounter shadow people

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Speaker 3: that want to thwart our plans of living.

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Speaker 2: Those pesky shadow people always trying to suffocate us in

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Speaker 2: our sleep. That's no fun. But we're talking specifically today

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Speaker 2: about I don't know, Ben, you have this really great

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Speaker 2: analogy for dreams, just the idea of like your brain

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Speaker 2: kind of as at hard drive, sort of like sorting

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Speaker 2: out the bits or like defragging, like kind of cleaning

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Speaker 2: out the cobwebs, I guess of the day and subconsciously

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Speaker 2: maybe doing some internal problem solving. Even if it's not

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Speaker 2: like you wake up with some kind of aha moment,

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Speaker 2: it is somehow doing some good for you, like in

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Speaker 2: terms of, you know, maybe uncluttering your subconscious Let's say,

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Speaker 2: is that about the span of it, Ben.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Before we jump to, you know, the kind

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Speaker 1: of theories that we have about dreams because we don't

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Speaker 1: know what they are, let's bust one myth really quick.

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Speaker 1: We've all heard that dreams only occur during a specific

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Speaker 1: phase of sleep. Ram great band, the phrase Ram stands

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Speaker 1: for rapid eye movement. It's like the fifth stage of sleep.

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Speaker 1: That's where the dreams are supposed to happen. However, we

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Speaker 1: know that multiple studies have shown maybe we dream mainly

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Speaker 1: in the RAM phase, but we also dream in other phases.

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Speaker 1: We can't be the dream process cannot be quite as

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Speaker 1: easily categorized as we would like, and that's where the

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Speaker 1: theories come in. So one of those leading theories. There

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Speaker 1: are loads and loads of great research pieces on dreams.

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Speaker 1: One of those theories is just what you described, that

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Speaker 1: dreams are a part of memory processing, meaning that it

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Speaker 1: helps us consolidate things we've learned while also transferring our

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Speaker 1: short term memory to our long term memory storage. So yes,

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Speaker 1: I think the analogy holds that. To me, it seems

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Speaker 1: like a good description is the brain's defragging the hard drive.

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Speaker 1: But then again, is the brain the hard drive? What's

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Speaker 1: doing the defragging? Is it the software? Is that the consciousness?

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Speaker 1: This gets very strange, very quickly.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, in that concept, it's as though all of

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Speaker 3: those connections that your neurons have made, it's solidifying them,

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Speaker 3: right if they're necessary. It's almost like the brain itself

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Speaker 3: is trying to decide what's important. It's really weird. It's

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Speaker 3: weird to think about your brain in its unconscious state

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Speaker 3: doing one of the most important things that you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: figuring out what you actually learned and what you should remember,

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Speaker 3: or or.

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Speaker 2: How you actually feel about things. Sometimes I mean, like,

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Speaker 2: perhaps my recurring dream about being unprepared is a signal

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Speaker 2: or a symptom of me feeling overwhelmed at certain times.

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Speaker 2: I don't have this dream all the time, but when

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Speaker 2: I do have this dream, I think it's a product

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Speaker 2: of me maybe feeling a little underwater with work or

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Speaker 2: a little bit like I'm out of my depth or something,

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Speaker 2: or like I kind of am a little bit adrift

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Speaker 2: and maybe need a little bit of a course correction.

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Speaker 2: So they can be interesting when you have these over

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Speaker 2: and over and you're like, oh, maybe this is a

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Speaker 2: signal pointing towards something.

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Speaker 3: That's really a great observation, because another thing it could

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Speaker 3: be is really just a problem solving activity that your

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Speaker 3: brain goes through a way to go through those difficult,

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Speaker 3: complicated things that you know are more deeply psychological than

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Speaker 3: perhaps you appreciate it in the moment, and to get

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Speaker 3: balance back in a way or to maybe put things

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Speaker 3: in the right perspective for you.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it's all just kems, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's all just firing neurons and you know, electrical impulses

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Speaker 2: bouncing around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's like saying that music is only math

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Speaker 1: for you know what I mean, it's a matter of perspective.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an important theory to bring up as well.

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Speaker 1: The bit more, I wouldn't say reductionists, but the theory

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Speaker 1: that wants to remove the concept of consciousness from the

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Speaker 1: equation and says that dreams are simply the brain responding

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Speaker 1: to an array of biochemical changes and electrical pulses that

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Speaker 1: impulses that fire as you are asleep, whatever you might be,

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Speaker 1: and the dream then is seen as nothing more than

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Speaker 1: a side effect, right Like sunsets look pretty, but that

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Speaker 1: wasn't part of some grand plan. This argument says, it's

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Speaker 1: just a very small side effect of graph in orbit.

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Speaker 1: So we have these theories and they all The thing

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Speaker 1: is that none of them, on the outset seem just

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Speaker 1: straight wrong, none of them seem demonstrably incorrect. They just

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Speaker 1: seem like the old adage of the mice describing an elephant, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, different mice see different parts of the elephant.

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Speaker 1: They think it's a bunch of different objects instead of

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Speaker 1: one large thing. We do, luckily know on numerous levels

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Speaker 1: what happens when we dream. Every dream you have has

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Speaker 1: some of the same guide posts. We tend to be

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Speaker 1: the main characters of our own lives and our dreams.

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Speaker 1: Just as in the waking world, you are in your dreams.

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Speaker 1: Even when you feel like you're watching something happen, you

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Speaker 1: are in it. Things are happening, You're taking actions. The environment,

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Speaker 1: the reality of the dream is responding to your actions,

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Speaker 1: and in the universe of the dream, those are responses,

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Speaker 1: and those actions they make sense. This is not really

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Speaker 1: the case once you wake up and you think, wow, my,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, my great aunt has been dead for years.

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Speaker 1: She never played the Obo, and I have never been

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Speaker 1: to Portugal.

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Speaker 2: Right, They're like, yeah, how come when I eat a

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Speaker 2: chocolate covered pretzel in the real world, it's delicious treat.

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Speaker 2: But in a dream, all my teeth fallout and I'm

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Speaker 2: naked in front of a high school gym of my

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Speaker 2: peers and they're all laughing at me. Why are they

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Speaker 2: laughing at me?

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Speaker 1: Or like in the Far Side. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest modern American comic strips, the the recurrent

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Speaker 1: fear of showing up to a lecture without one's duck.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a deep cut for folks. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is true. These things have an internal logic. And

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Speaker 1: if you practice dream journaling, which can be a tremendously

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Speaker 1: useful psychological tool, then what you'll notice when you try

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Speaker 1: to write out the plot points of your dreams is

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Speaker 1: that things change, especially scenery. I didn't I didn't talk

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Speaker 1: about any of my recurrent dreams because they're weird. They

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Speaker 1: kind of all occur in the same universe, and things

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Speaker 1: that happen in one affect things in the other.

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Speaker 2: Whoa you have like a Ben Bolen cinematic dream universe.

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Speaker 4: It's not as cool as it sounds.

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Speaker 2: Man, that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, it's not as cool as it sounds.

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Speaker 1: But but we all But the thing is, it makes

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Speaker 1: sense when you're in the moment, right Like of course,

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Speaker 1: my teeth falling out that is a tremendously common, uh

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Speaker 1: dream trope, especially in the West. Maybe it's maybe has

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Speaker 1: something to do with dentists. Maybe it has something to

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Speaker 1: do with the rite of passage we experience when our

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Speaker 1: baby teeth fall out. But yeah, yeah, so it's kind

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Speaker 1: of programmed into us. But when we think about it,

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Speaker 1: when we're awake, all of our thoughts have a kind

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Speaker 1: of familiar logic to them. Right, I did A because

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Speaker 1: I want B or I did see because someone is

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Speaker 1: going to do D later. And our brain, which is

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Speaker 1: hugely underrated in the in the sort of avengers of

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Speaker 1: our body. Our brain is always working through all this

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Speaker 1: internal external stimuli. And your brain, like your heart, once

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Speaker 1: it starts going, it doesn't get a break. It's not

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Speaker 1: supposed to get a break until you die. If your

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Speaker 1: brain or your heart stop doing what they do, getting

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Speaker 1: down how they get down, then you are very much

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Speaker 1: in trouble. So when you're when you're asleep, your brain.

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Speaker 4: Is still active.

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Speaker 2: The brain is like the great white shark of the body.

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Speaker 2: You know, if it stops, then it dies. And that's

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Speaker 2: because of a couple of things. So the brain is

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Speaker 2: divided into segments. As we know, we've got the limbic

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Speaker 2: system in the mid brain, which deals with emotion in

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Speaker 2: both waking and dreaming states. It's interesting there these these

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Speaker 2: parts kind of have shared responsibilities and do similar functions

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Speaker 2: when you're awake and when you're asleep. And that includes

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Speaker 2: the amygdala, which is particularly active when you're in a

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Speaker 2: dream state.

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Speaker 1: Right, and then we've got the cortex. The cortex is

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Speaker 1: what if the cortex had a job, If your dreams

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Speaker 1: were a soulist corporation, and the cortex was an employee

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Speaker 1: of your dreams, then it would have the title content creator,

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Speaker 1: which is not a favorite title of mind. So the

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Speaker 1: reason that's important is everything that your cortex does, your

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Speaker 1: cortex rights and directs your dreams right, comes up with

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Speaker 1: the plot lines. Everything you feel, from floating in a

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Speaker 1: vast and knowable ocean to flying to jumping from one

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Speaker 1: impossible across one impossible chasm to another. All the people

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Speaker 1: you meet, all the monsters that chase you, they all

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Speaker 1: come from your cortex and the visual cortex right there

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Speaker 1: at the back of your brain. If you're human, when

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Speaker 1: you're listening to the this is especially active because we

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Speaker 1: are such, you know, visual creatures, kind of the way

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Speaker 1: that dog that dogs are olfactory creatures.

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Speaker 4: This made me wonder.

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Speaker 1: I don't have the science on it yet, but I

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Speaker 1: wonder if dogs mainly dream and smell.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting too because I never really recall sounds from dreams,

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Speaker 2: and I know that's that's a thing that happens. There's

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Speaker 2: even a story Paul McCartney says that he came up

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Speaker 2: with the melody to I Believe Yesterday in a dream

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Speaker 2: and he woke up and he had this melody, and

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Speaker 2: he said, and being a musical dude, I don't think

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Speaker 2: I've ever dreamt of a melody. I think of it

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Speaker 2: as a very specifically in the realm of visual hallucinatory

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Speaker 2: kind of state, you know. So I think that's pretty

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Speaker 2: special for Paul to come out of a dream state

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Speaker 2: with that melody. Have you guys ever dreamt sounds or

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Speaker 2: remembered sounds from a dream?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, really happen at all.

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Speaker 3: I have several highly talkative monsters that inhabit my dreamscape,

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Speaker 3: very talkative and in fascinating uh vocalizations. I highly recommend

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Speaker 3: checking out one of these if you get a chance, one.

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Speaker 2: Of these mad brands.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll oh yeah, just hot back there and my

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Speaker 3: oh my underlit jimbae.

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Speaker 2: Look at that.

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Speaker 3: Uh So, you know it's fascinating that you're talking about

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Speaker 3: that the cordex been. I think it's You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: The cortex is the reason why we're almost It feels

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Speaker 3: a lot of times for me and maybe a lot

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Speaker 3: of others that you're kind of just a passenger in

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Speaker 3: your dreams, like you're moving, you're going places, you're seeing things,

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Speaker 3: things are changing, but you just kind of accept it.

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Speaker 3: You just kind of go with it. You're just headed

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Speaker 3: in that direction, unless, of course, you've unlocked you know,

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Speaker 3: the ability to locid dream, which is a whole other thing.

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Speaker 3: But one of the reasons that it's that dreams are

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Speaker 3: like that is because these parts of our brain, the

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Speaker 3: lobes that are talked about so frequently, kind of the

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Speaker 3: logic systems, those are the least active parts of your

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Speaker 3: brain when you are dreaming, which it really explains why

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Speaker 3: you know, things don't feel so strange until you wake up.

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Speaker 3: And maybe it's also one of the main reasons you

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Speaker 3: don't remember too much.

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Speaker 1: My Great Gods is dead. She never played the Obo,

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Speaker 1: I've never been to Portugal, and you know, and if

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Speaker 1: I don't write it down in twenty three minutes, I'll

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Speaker 1: forget dude.

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Speaker 2: But that, yeah, that's it, that's right, that's another thing

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Speaker 2: like I've never been a dream journaler, and there's it

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Speaker 2: has to be my dream has to pack such a

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Speaker 2: waile up for me to remember it at all. But

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Speaker 2: when it does, I do, and they stick with me

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Speaker 2: and I remember them for many years. But typically unless

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Speaker 2: you write it down super quick, you're still in that

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Speaker 2: kind of like waking dreaming between state and then you

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Speaker 2: kind of lose it. Right, Are you guys good at

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Speaker 2: remembering dreams?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 2: What would you say your odds are or like in

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Speaker 2: terms of like waking up and being able to recall

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Speaker 2: specifics from a dream.

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Speaker 3: I keeping notes on my phone and it's always right

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Speaker 3: by my bed, and yeah, constantly doing that.

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Speaker 2: What about you? Ben? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I I don't know necessarily think it's a good thing,

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Speaker 1: but yes, yeah, okay, pretty I do. Well, it's no

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Speaker 1: secret longtime listeners. I don't like sleep.

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Speaker 4: I resent it.

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Speaker 1: I think that science should already be at the point

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Speaker 1: like where, you know, if I can call someone in

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Speaker 1: freaking Bhutan and talk to them in real time with

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Speaker 1: something you know, the size of an open hand, then

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to I shouldn't have to sleep. We

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Speaker 1: should have figured some some way around it. Well, then

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Speaker 1: be someone to space. We said people to space.

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Speaker 3: But then, ben if if you do have to sleep

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Speaker 3: because unfortunately our analog bodies require it for some dang reason. Uh,

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Speaker 3: why not at least record as much as you possibly can.

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Speaker 3: One day we're gonna be able to plug in somehow

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Speaker 3: and just get that stuff like roll on quick time

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Speaker 3: while I'm dreaming. And I can't wait for that.

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Speaker 4: Too, right, man. There's there's one thing though, to add

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Speaker 4: with that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I spend a lot of time researching kind

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Speaker 1: of what we talked about with lucid dreams, which is

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Speaker 1: probably a story for another day, but I end up

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of work done in dreams. It feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm doing a lot of work. And then I

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Speaker 1: wake up and I think, oh, I got to write

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Speaker 1: this amazing story down. And then I write it down,

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Speaker 1: go get some coffee or something. I come back and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, the most amazing part of this story

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Speaker 1: is that I thought it was good and because my

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Speaker 1: frontal lobes were turned off right, And I think I

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Speaker 1: think we do that a lot. To your point in

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Speaker 1: all about how how we process in dreams, it's unless

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Speaker 1: people have you know, PTSD or some sort of condition

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Speaker 1: that gives them violent, nightmarish, recurrent horrific visions every time

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Speaker 1: they sleep. Most people would prefer dreams to a dreamless sleep,

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Speaker 1: you know, Otherwise it's really disconcerting to have everything go

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Speaker 1: dark at say, four point fifty three am and then

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Speaker 1: wake up at I don't know, two thirty seven pm.

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Speaker 4: I just sort of hope nothing important happened.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, we probably won't really truly be able

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Speaker 2: to answer definitively like why do a dream? We've got

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Speaker 2: some good theories, but there are experts in mental health

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Speaker 2: that do believe that it's an important part of maintaining

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Speaker 2: some semblance of sanity or like self awareness or understanding

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Speaker 2: of ourselves. But there's you know, not like a definitive

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Speaker 2: like this is what dreams are four But for different people,

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Speaker 2: there for a lot of things. And like like I said,

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Speaker 2: if you're Paul McCartney, it makes you write a song

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Speaker 2: that's been covered by over three thousand artists and probably

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Speaker 2: one of the most recognizable songs in the history of

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Speaker 2: recorded music. That's just my hot take on yesterday. But

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Speaker 2: it's a thing that came from a dream, So they

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Speaker 2: certainly have value. I mean, so many artists recreate images

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Speaker 2: from their dreams. And to your point, then, whether I

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Speaker 2: think you're selling yourself short with the quality of your

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Speaker 2: dream stories. But they are things that you've pulled from

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Speaker 2: a dream state that you can then translate into the

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Speaker 2: real world and do something with. They're functional in that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, evolution is a brutal editor. So we

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Speaker 1: know that dreams exist for some purpose, right, and it's

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Speaker 1: probably not a vestigial leaving of our earlier arboreal ancestors.

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Speaker 1: But we do know to your point, even if we

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Speaker 1: can't fully answer the question why when it comes to dreams,

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Speaker 1: we know they do inform the waking world. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have examples, Like, just to rattle off a few examples,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorites, there's a guy named Dimitri mend Leave,

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Speaker 1: the guy who made the periodic table. He's got an

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Speaker 1: element named after him. He's legit his story. His claim,

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Speaker 1: which is very difficult to prove about how he figured

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Speaker 1: out the periodic table is that he was going mad

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Speaker 1: looking at all these mismatched cards. Kind of picture his

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Speaker 1: version of index cards, where he wrote down everything he

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Speaker 1: knew about an element, and he's like having his Charlie

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Speaker 1: Day conspiracy theory thing. He's trying to have his beautiful

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Speaker 1: mind moment, it doesn't make sense. The guy passes out

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Speaker 1: on top of these cards, and then in a dream

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Speaker 1: he watches them sort of get up and dance around,

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Speaker 1: and then they put themselves in order of their atomic weight,

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Speaker 1: and he wakes up and he goes, Eureka.

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Speaker 2: What a satisfying feeling. That must have been, just the

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Speaker 2: idea of making order out of chaos and then waking

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Speaker 2: up and having an actual concrete idea from that. That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: There's a I don't have the exact story here, but

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Speaker 3: you can look it up.

403
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Speaker 2: This will be an.

404
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Speaker 3: Adventure for everyone watching. There's a dream about a scientist

405
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Speaker 3: who is attempting to work on dogs, performing surgery on dogs.

406
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Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what his end goal was, but

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Speaker 3: he had this dream about a specific surgery that he

408
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Speaker 3: wasn't planning on doing, and then he wrote down all

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Speaker 3: of the information from his dream, attempted the surgery, and

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Speaker 3: he ended up discovering insulin is pretty insane. Thank goodness

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Speaker 3: that he did so, and that he had a wonderful dream.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing, right. This is this leads us to

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Speaker 1: this is a tangent. I don't know if we should

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Speaker 1: delve into it, but it leads to one of the

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Speaker 1: questions that I know a lot of us will have

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Speaker 1: listening to this today, which is, is it possible to

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Speaker 1: oh spoilers. Okay, no, let's save it for the end.

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Speaker 1: We have to practice linear time for this. So I

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Speaker 1: have questions for you guys that are haught. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we'll get our questions in at the end. We know

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Speaker 1: we've painted.

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Speaker 4: A pretty good picture here. Right.

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Speaker 1: Evolutionary theory suggests that basically dreams function as a safe

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Speaker 1: way to learn maybe right, so I can I can

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Speaker 1: figure out things without physically harming myself the way that

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Speaker 1: I could be in danger in the real world. So,

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, we all kind of have

428
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Speaker 1: this hollow deck in our head and we just run

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Speaker 1: scenarios until we wake.

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Speaker 2: Up physically harm yourself or maybe burn a bridge, you know,

431
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Speaker 2: with a colleague. Maybe you have a dream where you

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Speaker 2: get to yell at somebody that you're dealing with some

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Speaker 2: resentment towards, and then you wake up and you feel

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Speaker 2: like you've worked that out, sort of like a simulation

435
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: where you've gotten to beat the crap out of a

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00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, like a doll with this person's face on it,

437
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 2: and then you feel better so that you don't actually

438
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: do it in real life. You know?

439
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 4: Is that a thing people do?

440
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: Do you putn't know. I just came up with it.

441
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: It should be Why shouldn't it be?

442
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: I guess it is better than hitting a person. You

443
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: get to do you get a different doll every time?

444
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 4: Or do you just switch the face.

445
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: It's just got a sleeve, like a face shaped sleeve,

446
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: or you to slide in a new picture, you know,

447
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: and you can dress it up and the types of

448
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: clothes that person might wear. You know, it's a commitment,

449
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: but it's.

450
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, I think so, yeah, except in

451
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: places where really swell gels, like Norway. But Norway is

452
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: I'll clean up this background here, but I'm in the

453
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: process of fixing some stuff up, and I realize that

454
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: currently the place I record is not as nice as

455
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: a Norwegian prison, but a lot of places where people

456
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: live in the US are not to your point, nol,

457
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna think about that. I'm gonna think about, like,

458
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: what kind of doll? Is it less creepy if you

459
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: catch someone with the real doll and they say, no,

460
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: this is not for sexual purposes. I put other people's

461
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: faces on it because I dislike other people and I

462
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: just want to beat something that feels like I'm realistically

463
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: beating something right now.

464
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: It's not a sex thing. I think this safe way

465
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: to get around that is just to use those Remember

466
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: those WWF slam dolls that were like, you know, the

467
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: Ultimate Warrior and hul Cogin and they were a little

468
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: small kind of body pillow things and you can slam

469
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: them around or whatever. There's a name for them, but

470
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: maybe keep them like not life size. That would probably

471
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: keep people from looking as scance at you. We're not

472
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 2: talking about stuff that happens in the ru We are

473
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: a little bit the real world. We're talking about working

474
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: things out in your brain while you're not fully awake,

475
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: and that could involve working things out that are like

476
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: either too painful or just too like weird to get

477
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 2: into when you're awake. Maybe you have a hard time

478
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: wrapping your brain around it. But you need to process

479
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: these things, whatever they might be. And so this is

480
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: your brain's way of like forcing you to address some

481
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: of these things that maybe you're not equipped to do

482
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: so mentally. When you're awake.

483
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is strange because we can also see

484
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: that dreams do have the capability to warn us of things,

485
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: and maybe not in the way that we might initially suspect.

486
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: There was a twenty ten study in the journal Neurology

487
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: which shows that some violent dreams may actually be very

488
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: very early warning signs of growing brain disorders, the very

489
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: dangerous ones like dementia or Parkinson's. And when we say

490
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: early warning signs here the study, the study appears to

491
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: indicate that certain frequencies of violent dreams may be predicting

492
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: a brain disorder malfunction up to a decade out, which

493
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: is nuts. And also, I think that's kind of dangerous.

494
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that you know, you look

495
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: up on WebMD after you've had a nightmare and you think, oh,

496
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: I'm gonna die. At least this time it wasn't cancer,

497
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: because as we know WebMD, it's cancer.

498
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: It's cancer. The answer.

499
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, No.

500
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I have violent dreams occasionally, but I

501
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: also watched a lot of horror movies and occasionally eat

502
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: spicy foods before bed. So I do think when I

503
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: saw that stat Ben, it did give me pause. But

504
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: is this specifically violence, you doing violence, or just any

505
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 2: form of violent imagery in your dreams?

506
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: Well, think about like physically thrashing, for instance, where you

507
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: know your brain body connection hasn't completely switched off, which

508
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: is also you know, something that happens with sleep paralysis.

509
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: I see, yeah, But I would say also that is

510
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: that is a fascinating study, but it's.

511
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: Not hard proof.

512
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: So just because you're having nightmares does not mean that

513
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: you have cognitive woes in the future.

514
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 4: No more so than the average person.

515
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: But everybody, everybody knows that may have felt a bit

516
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: like a beta switch on our part, because when we

517
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: say dreams might warn you of things, what are we

518
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: really talking about? What is the elephant in the room

519
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: that so many ice are confusing for five different forms

520
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: of life?

521
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: It is this.

522
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: You or someone you know, regardless of whether they consider

523
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: themselves a skeptic or a quote unquote true believer, has

524
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: at some point in their life had a dream that

525
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: they could not explain. A vision that, for instance, inspired

526
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: someone to take a different route to work on the

527
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: morning of a horrific traffic accident, or a simple compulsion

528
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: to react to a trigger. Something as elementary as I

529
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: go inside immediately when I see the woman with the

530
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: red hat, and then boom, you go inside. And just

531
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: as you go inside, I don't know, we're making stuff up,

532
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: so wishes or horses here, Just as you go inside,

533
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: a gigantic piano slams down from the second floor of

534
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: that building, and you would have been standing in the

535
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: spot where it hits. It's a fascinating slippery slope. Are

536
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: these warnings from a mental process we don't fully understand?

537
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: Is it just coincidence? Is there something more to the story.

538
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: Can dreams predict the future? Well, we'll do our best

539
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: to look at this. After a word from our sponsor,

540
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy.

541
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean, for most of modern history there's

542
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: been this kind of notion of psychic abilities, precognition, being

543
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: able to see the future, tell people's fortunes, all of that.

544
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: You know, from that explainable kind of huckster side of things.

545
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: There's fiction, the realm of ghost stories and sci fi.

546
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: And then there's of course the religious or even separate

547
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: from religious, just spiritual side of it. All that.

548
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, science essentially looks at things like

549
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: this where we don't fully understand yet they look at

550
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: it as there is a mundane reason for this to occur.

551
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: Just because we don't know what it is doesn't mean

552
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: it's supernatural, doesn't mean that our brains are connecting into

553
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: a time slip somewhere or a stream of whatever. It

554
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: just means that we don't know what's happening yet, And

555
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 3: that's all.

556
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: That's all that it means.

557
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: And science, when it is done well, is able to

558
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: admit when it's wrong. Science is able to learn from itself,

559
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: like the best of human beings are able to do

560
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: as individuals. Science, like history, is one long, ongoing conversation.

561
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: It refers back to earlier points. Do we orbit the sun?

562
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: Does the Sun orbit us? It challenges these points, and

563
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: often it disproves itself unapologetically at a future date.

564
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: How could this rock possibly injure me from way over

565
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: way over I'm waste, I'm standing way over here and

566
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: this rock is way over here. How is that thing

567
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: causing me cancer?

568
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: Right? Oh right, exactly? Radiation?

569
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, I thought she just meant, like, you know,

570
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: how does it injure you when someone like throws it

571
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: at your head?

572
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 4: Oh?

573
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: That too? Propulsion?

574
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: It's just a rock with like a bad vibe. It's

575
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: a downer rock, you know what I mean. It's like

576
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: emotionally an abusive rock to see.

577
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of speaking of downers, we we should probably

578
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: get the downer version of this explanation kind of out

579
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: of the way, right, Yeah.

580
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, Noel.

581
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: Let's let's go to the ones that the probably the

582
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: first two that people think of and should think of.

583
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: The first is the C word for today's show, coincidence.

584
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: There are a ton of people living on Earth right now.

585
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: It's a longtime tradition. On this show, we're pulling up

586
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: the current world population, which is seven billion, eight hundred

587
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: and six million, seventy one, nine hundred and fifty nine

588
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: sixty nine sixty five nine sixty Like, Look, there are

589
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people, that's what we're saying, and the

590
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: vast majority of those people they all dream, most of

591
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: them in one way or another. Most people, also, by

592
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: the way, do not dream in black and white. That

593
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: is another myth to bust. There are also tons and

594
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: tons of people who lived and died before we ever

595
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: recorded this podcast, before podcast worthing before I don't know,

596
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: before hula hoops worthing. There are a ton of yes,

597
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: there's so many dead people that precede our stories in

598
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: the world in which we live today, and all of

599
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: those people, or at least the vast majority, experienced a dream, right,

600
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: experience multiple.

601
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: Dreams every night, every single night. So think, well, yeah,

602
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: I mean, but like, you know, I was watching a

603
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: YouTube video of I forget the guy's name, but he's

604
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: a lucid dreaming guy, and this was sort of his

605
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: whole point. He had the world population ticking away on

606
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: the screen and was just talking about how he's like,

607
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: let's do a more conservative estimate. Let's count out everyone

608
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: that has insomnia, you know, or like kids that maybe

609
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: aren't interpreting their dreams correctly or whatever. And you know,

610
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: you could maybe lower that number, it was still, you know,

611
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: a massive, massive number. And so it starts to become

612
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: like dice rolls, right, Like every time someone's dreaming, it's

613
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 2: the roll of the dice. And a lot of stuff happens,

614
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: a lot of news, a lot of bad news, a

615
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: lot of things that we are worried about, that we

616
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: think about, that we commiserate over. What will happen? Will

617
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: there be a tanker accident, will there be a horrible

618
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: plane crash, and sometimes those things align.

619
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And you know, I think the focus can

620
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: can get pretty sharp there when you talk about let's say,

621
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: an important factory to the town where you live, right,

622
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you're thinking about a lot. Maybe your

623
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 3: family has worked at that factory for a long time,

624
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: maybe you work there, and then something bad occurs at

625
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: that factory because there's a ton of mechanical equipment and

626
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 3: something goes wrong. It may make you feel though you

627
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 3: had a precognitive vision of something, even if it even

628
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: if your dream occurred months ago before the accident, you

629
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 3: still might remember it. But you know, that's that's at

630
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: least the way science would would put a wet blanket on.

631
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you prize the details, right, The things that

632
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: are relevant are the things you remember. The things that

633
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: are irrelevant are cast aside. And then you you every

634
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: time you remember this, just like Kinner episodes on Deceptive breed,

635
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 1: the narrative, the story, the details of your memory alter

636
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: ever so slightly to fall increasingly in line with what

637
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: you think happened. And time it doesn't matter, right, there's

638
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: no there's no methodology.

639
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: Of course, It's like a form of confirmation bias, right,

640
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: you just highlight the bits that support your thesis. You know,

641
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: you need to explain something, and you have this little

642
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: inkling of a dream, of a piece of a dream,

643
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: of a fragment of a dream. God knows how much

644
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 2: of it you're actually even remembering. It just happens to

645
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: line up with that detail, and you're like, ah, yes,

646
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: I predicted this, this was meant to be, This was

647
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 2: destined or something, you know.

648
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: And then that means that what we see is precognition

649
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: is just sort of a magic trick we're playing on ourselves.

650
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 4: Hey, if you're watching the.

651
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: Video, you're doing something like this, but you think it

652
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: really is your finger, And now.

653
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 2: How are you doing that? I don't I don't understand

654
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: what I'm looking at.

655
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: But then how did you can you do the one where

656
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 3: it's like.

657
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: This finger becomes too Yeah, that's that's the class.

658
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: I like it. I like it, witchcraft son.

659
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: I show my son that after you did it for me.

660
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: It's one of his favorite things.

661
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: It's a cool move. It's a super cool move. Can

662
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: I can I really quickly ask you guys opinion about

663
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: something like this that that did happen to me really quickly?

664
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: It's very strange. Nothing significant, nothing like a factory explosion

665
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: or a plane crash or anything. But I used to

666
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: intern at this recording studio in Athens, Georgia, and there

667
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: was this woman, a young woman who also worked there,

668
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: and I never actually met her, but I always heard

669
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: her name because it was a really cool. Her name

670
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: was Bennett Moon, and I just love that name, and

671
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: I thought it was just really memorable to me. And

672
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about Bennett Moon in a long long

673
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: time for whatever reason. And I had this very specific

674
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: dream where I met Bennett Moon was who was a

675
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: person that I'd never actually met, but I was aware,

676
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: like I'm the periphery of this person. And literally the

677
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: next day I'm listening to Wait, Wait, don't tell me

678
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: on NPR and they have the call in thing at

679
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: the end, and who's the call in person but Bennett

680
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: Moon from Athens, Georgia, And it's it's the same person.

681
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: It is this person, no question about it. Never heard

682
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: her voice in my life, never actually met her, just

683
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: knew of her that she kind of she had the

684
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: shared experience that was we never actually crossed, Pasa. Isn't

685
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: that weird? That is very weird? But I mean, at

686
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I can chalk that up

687
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: to coincidence. It's not like it was predicting anything exactly,

688
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: but it's a pretty interesting game of odds there, you know.

689
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: And if this is our brain just kind of playing

690
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 2: a trick on ourselves and in party, meaning that was

691
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: a pretty pretty bit one. It wasn't like I was

692
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: like blown away or felt like I was seeing the

693
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: hand of God or anything, but I did feel like

694
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: I was experiencing something, you know what I mean, I

695
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: don't know.

696
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's another it's still kind of a downer,

697
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: but it's a little bit less of a downer. That

698
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: may help explain that. Let's call it playing the probability game.

699
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 5: So we're all.

700
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: Familiar with Yeah, we're all familiar with Carl Young, we're

701
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: all familiar with archetypes, these ideas of the super consciousness

702
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: and so on, but we don't really need that yet

703
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: to talk about dreams in this way. So if coincidence

704
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: is a lottery, then the probability game is kind of

705
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: kind of your your brain playing clue in a couple

706
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: of ways. So this may apply to your anecdote there, Noel,

707
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: because Carl Jung makes a great point about the perceived

708
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: precognitive capacity of some dreams. We didn't want to paraphrased demand,

709
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: so we just pulled the quote. It sounds smart because

710
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: he wrote it.

711
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, Matt, you want to give it to us. Oh.

712
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: Yes, the occurrence of prospective dreams cannot be denied. It

713
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: would be wrong to call them prophetic because at bottom,

714
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 3: they are no more prophetic than a medical diagnosis or

715
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 3: a weather forecast. They are merely an anticipatory combination of

716
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: probabilities which may coincide with the actual behavior of things,

717
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 3: but need not necessarily agree in every detail.

718
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 4: Confirmation.

719
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so what's so? Can we unpack like the difference

720
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 2: or the distinction between prospective and prophetic.

721
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, the prospective dream would be the the sum

722
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: of your sensory information, your memory, often short term, sometimes

723
00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: long term, your fleeting ephemeral impressions, all mash together, like

724
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: that horrible stuff called neutral loaf that they used to

725
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: feed prisoners in the US and maybe still do.

726
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: Or freud kick you know, if you want like a

727
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: slightly more pleasant.

728
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Sure or salad if you want something healthier as well.

729
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: So this is all, this is all mixed up, and

730
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: from this our subconscious, which doesn't function with some of

731
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: the same socially imposed constraints or ego imposed constraints that

732
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: our consciousness functions with. Our subconscious is able to aggregate

733
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: these things and make an analysis a guestimate. So a

734
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: prospective dream is the subconscious saying this, this, and this

735
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: are crazy connected. Therefore, I think here's the realm that

736
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: this road.

737
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: Leads us to. So that's the idea.

738
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: The idea there is that for young a dream may

739
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: only be prophetic if every detail of the dream matches

740
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: every detail of the bit, the scene, the event in

741
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: the waking world.

742
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: Wait, so is he acknowledging that this is possible or

743
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: is he just setting up a standard that's like impossible

744
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 2: to meet.

745
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: That's a good question. He is primarily implying, at least

746
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: the way that I interpret it, that we are underestimating

747
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: the intelligence of our subconsciousness, because you know, we are

748
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: very unappreciative of our brains. I had to cut a

749
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: line out here at some point.

750
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: But it's like, the brain works so hard.

751
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: You're asleep and you're still breathing. That's amazing, and the

752
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: brain is doing that. But that's what he's saying. He's

753
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: saying that we're kind of short changing our own mental abilities,

754
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: our own pattern recognition, really, and that we only notice

755
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 1: this amazing ability when we get something super weirdly specifically correct,

756
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: and then we're like, whoa, oh, maybe I have superpowers.

757
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: I have superpowers, and they are entirely related to my

758
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: ability to know which song I'm going to hear on

759
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: the radio two days from now, which is a tremendously

760
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: common thing, especially with music, or.

761
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: Your ability to all of a sudden recognize Bennett Moon. Yeah,

762
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 3: hi Bennett by the way.

763
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously, I hope I hope she listens to the show.

764
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: I gotta say that that was one of those moments

765
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: that I was like, is this real? Like I really

766
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: had to kind of do a double take, like a

767
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: spit take, where I was like, how to understand what

768
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: I'm experiencing right now? And there are some other examples

769
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 2: of this throughout history that I think would cause even

770
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 2: the most skeptical person to ask that very same question.

771
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you, I mean, you could go on other

772
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 3: channels on YouTube and find lists of these kinds of things.

773
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 3: Shout out to Matthew Santoro, So I see you man.

774
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: He gave a great example of Abraham Lincoln that I

775
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: had never heard about before, so headed over to History

776
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: dot com just to learn a little more about it. Allegedly,

777
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: this is the way the story goes. Just a couple

778
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: of days before Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, he told his

779
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: wife Mary Todd and his friend Ward Hill Lamon about

780
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 3: this dream that he had just had. And in this dream,

781
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: he's I believe he's there at the White House and

782
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: the oval officer near there, and he is he sees

783
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 3: all of these mourners. He sees a casket. He sees

784
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: like important members of his like inner circle, and they're

785
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 3: all mourning the death of the president. But he says,

786
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: according to the story, he didn't recognize himself in in

787
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 3: the casket. It wasn't him, so he wasn't worried about it.

788
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 3: He didn't believe that he was having some kind of

789
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: prophetic dream or precognitive dream that was going to foretell

790
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: his death. But he did get assassinated, if you, I

791
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 3: think it was very soon after.

792
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: I heard another version of the story where like he

793
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: was telling this to his bodyguard and like saying.

794
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 3: That Laman is was his part time bodyguard his friend, right,

795
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 3: but he would say like usually he would say good night,

796
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: Laman or whatever, but this time he said goodbye.

797
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: And he told him like, I've had this dream and

798
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm worried something's gonna happen in the theater to night.

799
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: And he was like, well, you shouldn't go, mister president,

800
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: and he said, but I'm meeting my wife there and I

801
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: don't want to disappoint her, so I must go. And

802
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: then like he he said goodbye for the first time

803
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: ever instead of you know, good night, which whatever. It's

804
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: it's an interesting detail.

805
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 3: Here's why it's a little weird because Lamon is the

806
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 3: guy who told this story. So Link was assassinated April fourteenth,

807
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 3: eighteen sixty five. And this concept that there was a

808
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 3: dream that was told to Mary Todd and Lamon didn't

809
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 3: come out for at least fifteen years wow, if not longer.

810
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: And it was allegedly told by Lamon based on notes

811
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: that he took in eighteen sixty five, So who knows

812
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 3: if it's real or not. But there's another interesting fact.

813
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: The cabinet that worked with Abraham Lincoln were aware that

814
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 3: he did seem to put a lot of importance on

815
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 3: his dreams that he would have. Can you tell him

816
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 3: about it?

817
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: Will pause for a word from our sponsor, but please

818
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: stay awake.

819
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: We'll be back soon, and we're back with more on

820
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 2: pre cognitive dreams.

821
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 1: Like a lot of us, I grew up reading these

822
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: sorts of stories often in time life books. This point

823
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: was just make him a sponsor. But these stories have

824
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: grains of truth, which I think you've done a fantastic

825
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: job of outlining. And then they also get carried over

826
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: and embellished, you know, in television series Gunsolved, Mysteries or

827
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: anything on the History Channel after about ten PM back

828
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: in the day. And the thing that's interesting about that

829
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: is it's often used that tendency is often used by

830
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: skeptics as a way to entirely discredit the anecdote, right,

831
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: or keep raising the bar of proof until proof is

832
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: something that can never be attained. But it's almost enough

833
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: for an entire episode on its own. The other worldly

834
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote psychic experiences of world leaders. Churchill said that

835
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: he heard a golden voice since he was a child,

836
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: and said later that it saved his life until actually until.

837
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: Even around World.

838
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: War two or so, until the World War two years,

839
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: it was incredibly common for Western leaders to be pretty

840
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: open about what they saw as a connection with some

841
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: sort of other side, and it faded.

842
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 4: Now.

843
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: It's a bit in the duldrums now because I imagine

844
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: that a lot of people feel they would not be

845
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: taken seriously if they said, hey, I am from a

846
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: family that has precognitive dreams. I have precognitive dreams. Also

847
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I should be in charge of nuclear weapons. It doesn't

848
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: track right. It's seen as a blow to credibility rather

849
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: than just a part of someone's individual human experience. But

850
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: we know it's not. These people who are recounting these

851
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: things are not chumps. They're not unintelligent people. I think

852
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: you had another example, Matt, also an American and also

853
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: a pretty smart guy. You love them or hate them?

854
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

855
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 3: I found a story about Samuel Clemens just rifling through

856
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 3: the internet, and it comes from Life on the Mississippi,

857
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: which is Samuel Clemens or Mark Twain's autobiography. It's fascinating.

858
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: So he was.

859
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 3: Sam Sam I don't like calling that. Mark Twain was

860
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: working on a steamboat called the Pennsylvania, and he had

861
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 3: arranged for his younger brother a guy named Henry to

862
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 3: also get a job there. He was going to I

863
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 3: think what did they call it. It's a really interesting

864
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 3: job a mud clerk on the Pennsylvania, which is the steamboat.

865
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 3: And there's this whole situation where the captain insulted Henry

866
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: for some reason and Mark Twain heard about it. There

867
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 3: was a whole fight that resulted in Mark Twain just

868
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 3: being banned from this boat where his brother was working. Right, So,

869
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 3: out of just this set of circumstances, Mark Twain got

870
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: kicked off of this boat that he was on and

871
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 3: his brother is still there. So then at some point

872
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 3: Mark Twain lays down, he has a dream, and inside

873
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: this dream he sees his brother Henry in a coffin,

874
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 3: and there are a lot of specifics about it. I've

875
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: heard that he was wearing one of Mark Twain's own suits.

876
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: But one of the most important things about this dream

877
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 3: was that there was a specific set of white flowers

878
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: laid down on to Henry's coffin where he.

879
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 2: Was laying, and with a single red flower in the middle.

880
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 3: Right, That's exactly what it is, So a very strong

881
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: image that was left on Mark Twain even after he awoke,

882
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 3: and obviously you know that kind of dream, a dream

883
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: about a loved one who dies that's going to be

884
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 3: affecting in some way or another.

885
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: And so there were there were different details here which

886
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: would be of interest to anyone agreeing with the beliefs

887
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: of Carl Jung or the beliefs as laid out in

888
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: today's episode. He had some specific details that appeared to

889
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: be correct, things that were unusual, like metallic often. This

890
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: is also for anyone else who read the incredibly unedited

891
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: autobiography of Mark Twain, where some of this is pulled from.

892
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know I'm right there

893
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: with you in solidarity. Even great writers need editors, even

894
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: just good editors. It's a very very long book. He's

895
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: dictating it on his deathbed. And the reason I'm bringing

896
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: that up is because he may have fallen victim to

897
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: something known as retrospective conviction, which is what we're talking

898
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: about earlier, when we alter our own memories by remembering

899
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: those memories. However, like you said, Matt, he says he

900
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: had never had any doubts since he'd had that dream

901
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: that it was predictive. He can remember everything very, very vividly.

902
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 3: So Mark Twain has to leave the boat. His brother

903
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: is still on it, and later on he gets word

904
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 3: that a boiler has in fact exploded on this steamboat

905
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 3: and his brother inhaled a bunch of steam and it

906
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: actually burned his lungs and he's he's in the hospital.

907
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 3: So Mark Twain, you know, obviously makes his He stops

908
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 3: what he's doing. He makes his way to the hospital

909
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 3: where his brother is. It's in Memphis, Tennessee. And when

910
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: Sam gets there, the doctors tell him that his brother

911
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 3: is in absolutely terrible pain. But he's going to be fine.

912
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 3: He just scalded his lungs a little bit. He's going

913
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 3: to recover. Don't worry about it, Sam. They wouldn't have

914
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: called him Mark Twain. They didn't know that name.

915
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: Listen here, Mark Twain, your brother's going to be just fine.

916
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. But Sam, you know, a caring brother, says, well,

917
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 3: there must be something you can do to make him

918
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: feel a little better.

919
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 2: Look at him.

920
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 3: He's obviously in pain. You know, he's in pain. Let's

921
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: do something about it. And according to Sam himself, he

922
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 3: convinces the doctor to give his brother a shot of morphine.

923
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: And the doctor is supposedly inexperienced with this type of

924
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 3: drug and overdoses Henry, and Henry unfortunately passes away.

925
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: I thought he died from the blast. I didn't realize that.

926
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: That's that's extra tragic and unexpected.

927
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, and you know again, According to Sammy never

928
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 3: forgave himself for this fact. But the strangest part is

929
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 3: that at the actual funeral of his brother Henry, he

930
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 3: noticed some things that reminded him of the dream he

931
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 3: had had, where what the what the coffin looked like,

932
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 3: the suit that his brother was wearing, and the most

933
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 3: important fact, or the most important similarity perhaps were a

934
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 3: bouquet of white flowers with a single red rose in

935
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 3: the center that was laid down onto his brother Henry's It's.

936
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: Like the end of a ghost story. It's like a

937
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: twist ending dude. And then it took the ribbon off

938
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: and her head fell off. It's like that, and there

939
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 2: was a single red rose. Burr. I don't like that.

940
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: He also told this story around seventy or eighty times

941
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: by his own admission, and when he was performing this

942
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: story at the Monday Evening Club as was called in

943
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four, the incident, I believe if I'm thinking

944
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 1: of the right one without pulling out that brick.

945
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: Of a book.

946
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: I believe it.

947
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: He was telling this story several years later, and someone

948
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: called Reverend Burton or reverend doctor Burton, just for extra accolades,

949
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: asked Twain if he had told it multiple times. He said, yeah,

950
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: seventy or eighty, and Burton pointed out that it is likely,

951
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: or it's very possible for someone with the best of

952
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: intention to embellish a story over the years. Twain stuck

953
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: to his guns. I don't think any of it is embroidery,

954
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: he had replied. I think it is all just as

955
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: I've stated it, detail by detail. Yes, the man wrote fiction,

956
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: and wrote an enormous amount of fiction, so he's no

957
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: stranger to spinning a tale. However, in the case of

958
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: Mark Twain, I would point out that he appears to

959
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: have predicted his own death without taking his own hand.

960
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 1: He was born on November thirtieth, eighteen thirty five, two

961
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: weeks after Haley's comment reached the prillion where it's the

962
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: point nearest to the sun. This is a plot point

963
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: in an awesome claymation film with some very disturbing depictions

964
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: of the devil. I recommend checking it out on YouTube.

965
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: In his autobiography in nineteen oh nine, he said, I

966
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: came in with Haley's comment at eighteen thirty five. It's

967
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: coming again next year. I expect to go out with

968
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: it. It'll be the great disappointment of my life if I

969
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: don't go out with Haley's comment.

970
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 4: So it went on about it.

971
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: So that's a little different because is that precognition or

972
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: is that just him being very stubborn and saying I

973
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: want to go out with the power move. But to

974
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: your point, Matt, yes, it is tremendously. I think it's

975
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 1: I think it would surprise people to learn how common

976
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: it is for people that you would associate with great success,

977
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: people that you would associate with great power, to believe

978
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 1: in predictive, precognitive or even prophetic dreams. Maybe they don't

979
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: talk about it as much.

980
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 5: Now, you know.

981
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: Maybe they are not recounting the strange stories of their

982
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: family or their personal experience, and if so, there's probably

983
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: a reason. It's because they feel like they will be

984
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: resigned to the rubbish heap of the current day. And

985
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: that's a real valid concern. But I would imagine, you know,

986
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: world leaders listening in the audience today that yeah, that

987
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: you two have had a dream or four or a

988
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: Baker's dozen or nineteen that you yourself cannot explain to

989
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: this day. It is a very common thing. It is

990
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: a very common thing.

991
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it's true. Uh And I mean I

992
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: don't know up to this point in the in the show,

993
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: I hope it doesn't sound like we're poo pooing any

994
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: of these things. I think we've all acknowledged the whole

995
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 2: way that the brain is a very under understood that's

996
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: a redundant. But I'm still going to go with the thing.

997
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 4: I have.

998
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 1: I have not poof pooed this. I'm just setting up.

999
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm building a case that unfortunately we're not getting.

1000
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: That trying to get to in a very ham fisted way.

1001
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: This is one of those ones where we like just

1002
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: look at the clock, are like, man, we've got so

1003
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 2: much more left to go and some really good, amazing,

1004
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 2: juicy science based stuff. But I think we're going to

1005
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 2: save that for a part too, because there's really enough

1006
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: there to give you another really substantial episode out of

1007
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 2: this topic.

1008
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 3: Yes, so you will have to stay tuned, but for now,

1009
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 3: why don't you write to us, tell us about your dreams,

1010
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 3: tell us about something maybe you've predicted, or a strange

1011
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 3: thing that's happened within your family or a friend or

1012
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 3: a loved one. You can find us on Facebook and

1013
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 3: on Twitter, where we are a conspiracy stuff show.

1014
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: You can also find us on social media and the

1015
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: usual spots or Facebook where Instagram. We're not Pinterest. We

1016
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: fought back and we fought the law, and the law

1017
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: did not win. We won that one, but who knows

1018
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: anything could happen. We are conspiracy or conspiracy Stuff show

1019
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 2: in most of the usual spots Twitter as well. If

1020
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: you don't want to do that, you can go to Facebook,

1021
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: where we have a really dope Facebook group called Here's

1022
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: where it Gets Crazy, super easy to get in. Just

1023
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: name you know anybody involved in the show, or or

1024
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: a topic or whatever you want, just so we know

1025
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: that you're actually real and you're in a lot of

1026
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: cool conversations there and meme exchanges and good group of

1027
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: folks on Here's Where it Gets Crazy. What else can

1028
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: they do?

1029
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 3: You can give us a call. Our number is one

1030
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 3: eight three three s T d wy TK.

1031
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: If you don't like social media, if you don't like

1032
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: if you don't cottonto calling on the phone, but you

1033
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: have a story to tell us, and I expect many

1034
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: of us in the audience do have a.

1035
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 4: Story to share today.

1036
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: Please, please, please, always remember that there is one last

1037
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: way you can contact us any old time of day

1038
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: or night, the waking world or the world of dreams.

1039
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: You can send us a good old fashioned email caveat asterisk.

1040
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: If you dream about sending us an email, just to

1041
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: make sure it does go through, send one while you're

1042
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: awake as well.

1043
00:58:52,520 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 6: Where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1044
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1045
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1046
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.