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Speaker 1: So Donald Trump will soon be president again, and he

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Speaker 1: has promised us a golden age for America, which I

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Speaker 1: am certainly looking forward to, which I'm sure you guys

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Speaker 1: are at home are looking forward to, particularly after these

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Speaker 1: last four years of I think what we could all

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Speaker 1: admit has been hell under Joe Biden, hell for the economy,

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Speaker 1: help for the border, complete chaos around the world as well.

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Speaker 2: Seems like things have just fallen apart.

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Speaker 1: Just a lack of patriotism as well, insanity with you

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Speaker 1: trying to transgender kids, and just complete and total nonsense

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Speaker 1: is basically what we've experienced over the past four years.

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Speaker 2: But today, for.

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Speaker 1: This episode, I want to focus on this golden era,

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Speaker 1: particularly for the economy.

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Speaker 2: What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: What should he do in these next steps. Also want

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Speaker 1: to dig in a little bit to doge what will

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Speaker 1: some of those government reforms look like for the country

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Speaker 1: and for the economy. Also, I'm sure you guys are

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Speaker 1: all familiar. There's recently a lot of back and forth

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Speaker 1: on X and in conservative circles about H one B visas.

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Speaker 1: And we had this conversation when I was on Outnumber

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, and I I quoted a friend

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Speaker 1: and he said this, over the last year, native born

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Speaker 1: Americans have lost almost eight hundred thousand jobs, while foreign

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Speaker 1: born workers have gained over one million jobs. The US

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Speaker 1: labor market is turning into a temp agency for foreign

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Speaker 1: workers and government bureaucrats. We're going to have the person

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Speaker 1: who I quoted, Heritage Foundations economists EJ and Tony on

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Speaker 1: the show to talk about that, to talk about the

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Speaker 1: debate around H one B visas, to talk about Doge,

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Speaker 1: and to talk about what this golden era for America

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Speaker 1: will look like and what he's hoping and what the

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Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation is hoping we can get done over these

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Speaker 1: next four years. So a lot to discuss, particularly on

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Speaker 1: the heels of the inauguration, and just a really exciting

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Speaker 1: chapter for the country.

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Speaker 2: So stay tuned for EJ and Tony.

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Speaker 1: Well, EJ, it's great to have you on this show.

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Speaker 1: Like most of these interviews since the election, a lot happier,

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Speaker 1: a lot more upbeats. It's very exciting four years we've

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Speaker 1: got ahead of us, So you.

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Speaker 3: Can say that again, Lisa, it's it's certainly a much

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Speaker 3: more positive conversation than it otherwise would have been.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you guys are going to be busy at

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Speaker 1: Heritage too, because you know, we're actually going to be

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Speaker 1: moving legislation forward that we want, so that'll keep you

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Speaker 1: guys busy.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent. You know, here's hoping we can actually

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Speaker 3: get some of these conservative these ideas of conservative governance

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Speaker 3: across the finish line instead of basically just doing damage control,

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Speaker 3: which is what we've been more or less relegated to

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Speaker 3: for the last four years.

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Speaker 1: And you know, boy, has it been damage that we've

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Speaker 1: been saying over these past four years. I guess, you know,

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Speaker 1: as we're waiting for this golden age for America, which

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Speaker 1: I do believe, we'll see, how hard do you think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be to roll back some of that

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Speaker 1: damage that Joe Biden has done.

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Speaker 3: Very It's going to be very, very difficult, Lisa. It's

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Speaker 3: you know, the president, the Vice president, the Treasury Secretary,

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Speaker 3: all these folks have a very very tough job on

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Speaker 3: their hands. Obviously, guys like Tom Homan do as well

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Speaker 3: at the border. But you know, my focus is obviously

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Speaker 3: more so economics. So let's just throw out a few

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Speaker 3: things or just I think to give some people context here.

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Speaker 3: Everyone loves talking about how wages are up, under Biden, right,

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Speaker 3: And that's true. In fact, we just got recent data

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Speaker 3: showing that the average Americans hourly wage jumped five dollars

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Speaker 3: and seventy six cents, so darn near six bucks. That's

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Speaker 3: incredible for just four years. The problem is that actually

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Speaker 3: buys you forty four cents an hour less than it

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Speaker 3: did when he took office. So there's effectively been a

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Speaker 3: six dollars and twenty cent hourly inflation tax imposed on

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Speaker 3: the average American. That is absolutely devastating. There's a reason

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Speaker 3: why despite so many of these positive numbers, again like

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Speaker 3: average wages going up, there's a reason why the American

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Speaker 3: people voted out the president's party from power. They gave

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Speaker 3: Trump not just the electoral vote, but the popular vote.

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Speaker 3: They didn't just give him a couple of swing states,

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Speaker 3: they gave him every single one. In other words, anything

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Speaker 3: that was remotely up for grabs this time around, Trump got.

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Speaker 3: And it all has to do with the fact that

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Speaker 3: Biden has done an incredible amount of damage to the

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Speaker 3: typical Americans family finances. I mean, home ownership affordability today

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Speaker 3: is at the lowest point in at least at least

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Speaker 3: forty three years, at least probably more so, I say,

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Speaker 3: at least because the record keeping was different back then,

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Speaker 3: and it's hard to compare. It's a little bit apples

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Speaker 3: and oranges, Lisa. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: you still have to face the fact that a monthly

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Speaker 3: mortgage payment on a median price home, not a mansion,

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Speaker 3: just a median price home today has more than doubled

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Speaker 3: compared to when Biden took office. It will cost you

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Speaker 3: an extra thousand dollars a month every month for thirty

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Speaker 3: years to afford the exact same house compared to just

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Speaker 3: four years ago. This is a genuine cost of living crisis.

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Speaker 3: And we didn't get here overnight. You know, Biden's started

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Speaker 3: the runaway multi trillion dollar spending bills literally as soon

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Speaker 3: as he got into office. It's not an exaggeration. They

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Speaker 3: continue to this day. But he started it immediately. However,

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Speaker 3: inflation didn't peak until eighteen months into his term, and

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Speaker 3: it's still bad right now. It's running about a four

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Speaker 3: point eight percent annualized rate at that pace. Price is

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Speaker 3: double in less than fifteen years, so that's still really bad.

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Speaker 3: It's not as bad as it was at its peak.

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Speaker 3: But the the point is this, Lisa, you know, Trump

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Speaker 3: is going to implement a lot of executive orders literally

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Speaker 3: on day one. He's going to push for all kinds

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Speaker 3: of spending and regulatory reform right away. And even if

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Speaker 3: those things get across the finish line quickly, it is

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Speaker 3: still going to take some time before all of those

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Speaker 3: policies have their effects, just like it took some time

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Speaker 3: for Biden's bad policies to have their effects. We also

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Speaker 3: have to grapple with the fact that a lot of

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Speaker 3: the when it comes to inflation, at least a lot

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Speaker 3: of the causes don't have immediate effects. So the fact

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Speaker 3: that the Federal Reserve cut interest rates in what I

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Speaker 3: think was election interference right before the election to try

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Speaker 3: to get their preferred candidate across the finish line. They

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Speaker 3: came in with these emergency rate cuts. That is not

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Speaker 3: going to have an immediate impact on inflation. It's going

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Speaker 3: to take many, many months, and so there are inflationary pressures.

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Speaker 3: You can say it's already baked into the cake for

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Speaker 3: this year for twenty twenty five based on what the

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Speaker 3: Federal Reserve was doing last year. Same thing with all

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Speaker 3: of the runaway spending that Biden continued throughout up until

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Speaker 3: the very end of twenty twenty four. You know, that

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Speaker 3: is going to continue to have an inflationary effect this year.

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Speaker 3: So now it's just a question of how quickly can

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Speaker 3: they get these regulatory reforms done, how quickly can they

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Speaker 3: increase energy production, because at least for the first year

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Speaker 3: or two, all of those positive effects are going to

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Speaker 3: be at loggerheads with the negative effects that are really

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Speaker 3: the leftovers from the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: You know, and you look at cutting spending. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think things like doge It's it's a great idea,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a positive sign. You know that

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Speaker 1: he wants to task people like Elon and Vivey to

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Speaker 1: try to cut spending and to try to do some

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Speaker 1: government reforms and rain and in a bit, you know,

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Speaker 1: the challenge is just because of how astronomical or debt is.

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Speaker 1: You know, even if you talk about two trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're really just talking about like servicing that

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Speaker 1: debt with that kind of money, right Like, it's like

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Speaker 1: that's how deep in the hole we have gotten as

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Speaker 1: a country financially.

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Speaker 3: At least one hundred percent. You're spot on here. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it is so incredible bad today that it is costing US.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in the month of December, it costs US

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Speaker 3: one hundred and forty billion dollars just an interest on

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Speaker 3: the debt. That's not a dime towards principle, that's just

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Speaker 3: the interest. It's like when your credit card comes in

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Speaker 3: after you've maxed out your credit card and all you

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Speaker 3: can afford is just the minimum that covers the interest,

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Speaker 3: and you can't actually pay down the principle at all.

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Speaker 3: That's where we are essentially as a country. Sixty six percent,

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Speaker 3: so essentially two thirds of every dollar paid in personal

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Speaker 3: income taxes in the month of December went just to

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Speaker 3: interest on the debt. It didn't go to building roads

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Speaker 3: or bridges, or hospitals or schools. It didn't fund the military,

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Speaker 3: it didn't go to pay Social Security recipients. It went

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Speaker 3: just to interest. And what's really incredible here is the

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Speaker 3: fact that in the month of December, that's just the

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Speaker 3: latest data we have available, that was interest on the

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Speaker 3: debt that was the largest line item in the entire

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Speaker 3: monthly statement from the Apartment of the Treasury. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's incredible. It is more than the Social Security Administration,

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Speaker 3: it is more than the Department of Health and Human Services.

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Speaker 3: It is more than all military spending combined. We are,

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Speaker 3: if we're lucky, going to spend about one point two

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Speaker 3: trillion dollars in twenty twenty five just in interest on

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Speaker 3: the debt, just to service the darn thing. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we are in a very very tight spot, and not

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Speaker 3: to get too far into the weeds here, but we

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Speaker 3: keep seeing the yields on treasuries go higher and higher.

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Speaker 3: That's essentially. That essentially means that if people are going

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Speaker 3: to hold a treasury, they're demanding that they get a

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Speaker 3: higher and higher interest rate from the treasury. So the

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Speaker 3: Treasury is going to sell this debt at an auction,

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Speaker 3: and the only way they can get people to buy

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Speaker 3: it is if they're paying very very high interest rates

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Speaker 3: compared to where they were a few years ago. A

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Speaker 3: lot of it is converging at about five percent. Five

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Speaker 3: percent on thirty six trillion dollars is catastrophic. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the only reason we're able to survive right now is

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Speaker 3: because so much of the debt was locked in at

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Speaker 3: interest rates of two or three percent. But that is

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Speaker 3: slowly all coming due, and when it comes due, we

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Speaker 3: don't have any money to pay it off, we roll

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Speaker 3: it over. Going back to that credit card example, Lisa,

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Speaker 3: imagine if you maxed out a bunch of credit cards

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Speaker 3: and when you finally have to start making payments on them,

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Speaker 3: after like an initial like an introductory low rate APR

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Speaker 3: or something like that, you all of a sudden have

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Speaker 3: to start making payments and you can't, so you open

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Speaker 3: up new credit cards and just transfer the balance. That's

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Speaker 3: basically what we're doing with the national debt right now.

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Speaker 3: And the problem is again you're getting rid of a

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Speaker 3: two or three percent interest rate and now you're at

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Speaker 3: five percent. This is a big reason why the cost

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Speaker 3: to service the debt is absolutely exploding and it's getting worse,

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Speaker 3: particularly because Janet Yellen has been engaging, to put it mildly,

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Speaker 3: financial engineering of treasury markets, which had the positive effect

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Speaker 3: initially of keeping certain costs to the treasury down and

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Speaker 3: also increasing liquidity in financial markets. So it kind of

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Speaker 3: had the same effect as if the Fed was lowering

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Speaker 3: interest rates and printing money and handing it out throughout

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Speaker 3: the economy. But now the bill is coming due, and

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Speaker 3: now the incoming Treasury secretary is going to have to

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Speaker 3: undo everything that Janet Yellen did, which is going to

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Speaker 3: cause yields to go up even more. It's going to

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Speaker 3: cause the cost to service the debt to go up

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Speaker 3: even more. It's going to cause a lot of tighter

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Speaker 3: financial conditions within markets. In other words, it's going to

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Speaker 3: have all these bad effects that should have happened last year.

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Speaker 3: But Yellen was essentially playing politics with treasury markets again

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Speaker 3: in order to try to keep things together before the election.

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Speaker 3: But now that the elections behind us, you know, all

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Speaker 3: bets are off.

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Speaker 2: We've got more with EJ.

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Speaker 1: But first, this Sanctity of Life Month, we honor the

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Speaker 1: over sixty six million babies whose lives have been tragically

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Speaker 1: ended through abortion since Row. Sadly, since Roe was overturned,

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Speaker 1: baby's lives right and even greater risk. You see, the

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Speaker 1: abortion pill accounts for over sixty percent of all abortions,

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Speaker 1: making this tragedy available twenty four seven. But in the

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Speaker 1: midst of this darkness, there is a light that shines.

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Speaker 1: Preborn has rescued over three hundred thousand babies from abortion,

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Speaker 1: and every day, on average, they rescue two hundred plus babies.

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Speaker 2: When a woman considering abortion.

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Speaker 1: Here's her baby's heartbeat and sees her precious baby on

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Speaker 1: an ultrasound. Her baby's chance at life is doubled. Preborn

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Speaker 1: shares free heartbeats and God's love for mother and child,

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Speaker 1: and they need our help. For just twenty eight dollars,

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Speaker 1: the cost of a dinner, you can sponsor an ultrasound

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Speaker 1: to introduce a mother to her baby for the very

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Speaker 1: first time. One hundred percent of your donation will go

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Speaker 1: towards saving babies.

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Speaker 2: Will you help us?

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Speaker 1: Just dial pound two five zero and say the keyword baby.

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Speaker 1: That's pound two fifty baby, or donates securely at preborn

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Speaker 1: dot com slash booth that's preborn dot com slash booth

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Speaker 1: bo t.

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Speaker 3: As.

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Speaker 1: If you look at this Golden era, this golden age

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Speaker 1: for America, I think, what do you think that looks like?

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Speaker 2: And you know what steps would you.

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Speaker 1: Like to see the Trump administration take to get us there?

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Speaker 3: Well, the Golden Era was a period where we had

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Speaker 3: not only our fastest rates of economic growth, but they

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Speaker 3: were sustained rates of economic growth, so it wasn't simply

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Speaker 3: a one off. You know, in the Reagan years they

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Speaker 3: managed something like twelve percent annualized GDP growth for about

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Speaker 3: eighteen months, but that was it. Now you you had

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Speaker 3: decent growth on average the rest of Reagan's presidency, but

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Speaker 3: that peak was only sustained for about a year and

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Speaker 3: a half. During America's Golden Age, that those peaks were

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Speaker 3: sustained for much much longer. And if we look at

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Speaker 3: you know, what was what was the winning formula during

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Speaker 3: that time, you essentially didn't even have a regulatory state.

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Speaker 3: Regulations that were put in place were incredibly mild compared

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Speaker 3: to what you have today. This is where you mentioned DOGE.

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Speaker 3: This is where DOZE is going to be incredibly vital

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Speaker 3: because they'll help identify not just where spending is being wasted,

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Speaker 3: but where regulations are imposing undue burdens on the American

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Speaker 3: people and on American manufacturers and other producers. So dose

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Speaker 3: will be really important there. I'm very, very hopeful with

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Speaker 3: the people who are getting appointed to Ohira Casey Mulligan,

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Speaker 3: who's going to be kind of the deregulatories are. He'll

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Speaker 3: be at the SBA. He's a great, great economist, University

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Speaker 3: Chicago professor. He wrote a paper not that long ago

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Speaker 3: explaining how during the first Trump administration their regulatory reforms

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Speaker 3: actually saved the average American family about twenty five hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars a year per year, So multiply that by four

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Speaker 3: years and that really adds up over time. Conversely, the

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Speaker 3: Biden administration has done exactly the opposite. Their regulatory costs

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Speaker 3: have imposed something like ten or twelve thousand dollars in

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Speaker 3: new costs on the average American family. That has greatly

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Speaker 3: contributed to inflation, to the cost of living crisis. And

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Speaker 3: so undoing all of those bad regulations is going to

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Speaker 3: help bring down costs for Americans. And again not just

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Speaker 3: for families, but for producers too, the people who are

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Speaker 3: trying to bring goods and services to the marketplace. That's

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Speaker 3: the regulatory regime. What about taxes, Well, there, you didn't

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Speaker 3: even have an income tax. Sure you had it for

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Speaker 3: a little bit when it was a temporary wartime measure,

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Speaker 3: but it was quickly ruled on constitutional It's not until

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirteen where the Constitution actually has to be amended

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Speaker 3: where they can reimpose any kind of income tax and

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Speaker 3: make a actual long term statute. So you didn't have

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Speaker 3: income tax, where did the government get all its money tariffs?

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Speaker 3: I can't stand lee. So all these so called economists

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Speaker 3: out there who are screaming from the rooftops the tariffs

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Speaker 3: are somehow going to crash the economy. They didn't during

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Speaker 3: first Trumps. During Trump's first term, excuse me, and Biden

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Speaker 3: said that all these tariffs were terrible, except he's had

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Speaker 3: four years to revoke them all and he hasn't. He's

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Speaker 3: left them in place because they're not doing any harm

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Speaker 3: at all. In fact, they're a net benefit. And during

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Speaker 3: America's Golden Age, the government funded itself almost exclusively on tariffs,

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Speaker 3: and what we saw was not a collapse of the economy,

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Speaker 3: but again some of our highest sustained growth rates ever

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Speaker 3: in our nation's history. And I really love this latest

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Speaker 3: proposal from the President, where we already have an IRS,

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Speaker 3: and he says, you know, for too long the IRS

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Speaker 3: has been burdening Americans. We need an ERS, an external

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Speaker 3: revenue service that's going to help collect all of these

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Speaker 3: taxes from foreigners, from foreign producers, for example. And we

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Speaker 3: do have something like that right now in the Bureau

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Speaker 3: of Customs and Border Protection, but that has other duties.

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Speaker 3: And I would really love to see an agency that's

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Speaker 3: going to spearhead this tariff effort and also non tariff

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Speaker 3: barriers and will also keep track of foreign currency markets.

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Speaker 3: The reason that's so important, Lisa, is because you have

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Speaker 3: bad actors like China who are constantly manipulating their currency.

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Speaker 3: They're doing it right now in spades where they're purposely

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Speaker 3: devaluing their currency faster than other nations. And what that

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Speaker 3: does is essentially give their producers an unfair advantage because

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Speaker 3: the way the currency markets work in exchange rates, it

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Speaker 3: makes their goods artificially cheaper, and so our domestic producers

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Speaker 3: are unable to compete with their Chinese counterparts. And one

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Speaker 3: of the things that the Trump administration had started doing,

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Speaker 3: but the Treasury Secretary at the time just I guess

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Speaker 3: didn't have his heart in it or whatever. He never

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Speaker 3: really fully pursued this idea of currency manipulation by China.

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Speaker 3: I think Scott Bessant, the incoming Treasury Secretary, is going

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Speaker 3: to pay attention to it. I think the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: broadly will, and they will make an effort to penalize China,

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Speaker 3: in other words, impose tariffs to counteract the devaluing of

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Speaker 3: the Chinese currency. And this is where I would love

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Speaker 3: to see all of these measures rolled back under the

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Speaker 3: Treasury Department in what used to be called the custom service,

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Speaker 3: and I think this ers would go a long way

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Speaker 3: in making in making all of that happen, in really

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Speaker 3: protecting the American producer from this unfair competition around the world.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing that we need to be I

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Speaker 3: think very aware of, Lisa, is the fact that you

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Speaker 3: do have a lot of nations today that have tariffs,

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Speaker 3: except they just don't call them that. Europe has a

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Speaker 3: tax regime where you have all kinds of measures like

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Speaker 3: value added taxes that because of the way they're structured

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Speaker 3: there end up imposing what is the equivalent of a tariff.

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Speaker 3: And so if they're going to do that, then we

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Speaker 3: should do the exact same thing to them. Why should

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Speaker 3: their producers have an unfair advantage over American producers. This

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Speaker 3: is a big part of why it is so hard

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Speaker 3: to make anything here. We literally, because of the differences

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Speaker 3: in tax codes, give unfair advantages to people making things overseas.

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Speaker 3: We actually provide an incentive, Lisa, in our own tax

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Speaker 3: code for a manufacturer to close up shop here in

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Speaker 3: the United States, to fire all of the Americans working

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Speaker 3: for him, and to move his factory to Canada, to Mexico.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't have to go to China. He can just

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Speaker 3: go right over the border and stay in North America

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Speaker 3: and still get that what I think is an unfair

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Speaker 3: tax advantage, and it's time for that to end.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of tariffs?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems that Trump, President Trump has been

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Speaker 1: able to use them in the past pretty successfully in

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Speaker 1: trying to, you know, push people in the direction that

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Speaker 1: he would like. And you know, it is clear that

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Speaker 1: that is going to be a big part of this

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Speaker 1: incoming administration in his next four years.

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Speaker 2: So what do you make of taris It might for them.

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Speaker 3: Sure, sure, At least I part ways with a lot

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Speaker 3: of my fellow economists in this regard because I just, frankly,

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Speaker 3: with all due respect, some of them are very bright,

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Speaker 3: but I don't think they've thought through this issue very well.

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Speaker 3: You know, they talk about how they're for free trade, Well,

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Speaker 3: what does that mean. You're talking about free trade as

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Speaker 3: if trade only happens on the international market. What about

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Speaker 3: the domestic market. If you're really for free trade, then

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Speaker 3: you should be fighting for the elimination of sales taxes

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Speaker 3: here at home. That's a tax on a domestic transaction,

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Speaker 3: and so is income tax. Income taxes a tax on

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Speaker 3: the exchange of labor for an income for money. So

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Speaker 3: if you're going to be for free trade, then why

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Speaker 3: are you okay with taxing domestic income, with taxing domestic sales.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense except that's where we're at today,

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Speaker 3: and it's as if we just have these blinders on

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Speaker 3: among so many so called conservative economists where they say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be for getting rid of all taxes

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Speaker 3: on international transactions and we're just going to rely on

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Speaker 3: taxes of domestic transactions to finance the government. It makes

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Speaker 3: no sense, especially when you consider the fact that our politicians,

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Speaker 3: our lawmakers should be about America first. They should be

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Speaker 3: putting Americans first. And so why is it we're going

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Speaker 3: to only tax Americans, especially when America provides so many

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Speaker 3: benefits for the rest of the world. And what tariffs

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Speaker 3: do is they help shift some of what we call

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Speaker 3: tax incidents, which is not who is tax but who

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Speaker 3: actually pays the tax. They help shift some of that

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Speaker 3: tax incidents off Americans and onto the rest of the world.

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Speaker 3: And if we're really going to be about America first,

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Speaker 3: then that should be a priority. I think that's a great,

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Speaker 3: great thing and what we saw you mentioned under the

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Speaker 3: first Trump administration with these tariffs. What we saw then

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Speaker 3: was for every dollar on average, for every dollar of

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Speaker 3: tariffs that Trump imposed on China these producers, eighty one

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Speaker 3: cents was actually paid for by those Chinese producers. Only

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Speaker 3: nineteen cents on the dollar was actually paid for by

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Speaker 3: Americans in the form of higher prices. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of that has to do with the fact that if

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Speaker 3: the Chinese producers ended up just raising their prices and

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Speaker 3: passing the full freight onto American consumers the full cost

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Speaker 3: of that tariff, then American consumers would simply buy it elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: We saw this with Chinese steel. They could only raise

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Speaker 3: their prices a little bit because if they raised them anymore,

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Speaker 3: then Americans would just buy their steel from American steel companies.

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Speaker 3: They would buy them from even other overseas companies like

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Speaker 3: in Sweden, for example. That was a big source of

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Speaker 3: competition with Chinese steel, especially after these tariffs. And so

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Speaker 3: this idea that somehow we're going to impose attacks on

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Speaker 3: Americans exclusively, I'm sorry, but both the theory and the

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Speaker 3: record of history say that that is completely wrong. And

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Speaker 3: again we need to get away in my opinion, we

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Speaker 3: need to get away from this mentality of thinking that

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Speaker 3: free trade only applies to the international marketplace. If we're

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Speaker 3: going to make any marketplace free trade truly free, I

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Speaker 3: would much rather we start with America first and we

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Speaker 3: make all of our domestic markets free of taxes before

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Speaker 3: we worry about anything abroad.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've already seen that.

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Speaker 1: You know, the National Federation of Independent Business UH said

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Speaker 1: that it's small business Optimism index has increased since Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has taken office. It's searched the highest level in

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Speaker 1: just over six years in December. What does that mean

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Speaker 1: for the economy as well? Just with you know, small

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Speaker 1: businesses and businesses in general, uh, just being more enthusiastic

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Speaker 1: about these next four years.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, the deregulation that we've talked about. How much

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Speaker 1: of an impact does that have on the economy.

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Speaker 3: Oh, tremendously, is really really tremendous impact, especially when we

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Speaker 3: consider that small business is really the driver of the economy.

437
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: That's where you know, that's where you see the big

438
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 3: gains in employment. That's where you see the big providers.

439
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about big providers in terms of a

440
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 3: single small business has a huge volume of factory orders,

441
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 3: but when you combine small business together, that's the biggest

442
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: source of production. In fact, even a retailer like Amazon,

443
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: they get more than half of all the stuff they

444
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 3: sell from small business. It's not as if it's all

445
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: just mega corporations on there. Obviously, Amazon is a mega corporation,

446
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 3: but in a way they're really just fulfilling a middle

447
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: man role of getting consumers and small businesses together because again,

448
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 3: more than half of what they sell is from small businesses.

449
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: What we're seeing beeing in terms of that increase in

450
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 3: optimism that you mentioned, the increase in December that brought

451
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: us to that six year high, You're absolutely right that

452
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: was built on the huge increase that we saw in November.

453
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 3: In fact, that increase we saw in November is the

454
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 3: largest since November of twenty sixteen, when Trump won the

455
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 3: first time around. And those are the biggest single monthly

456
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: gains in the history of the index. So that gives

457
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 3: you an idea. I think of how much small businesses

458
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: value the Trump agenda of what they are anticipating, and

459
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: if we delve into that survey as well as others,

460
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: what we find is that people are anticipating a much

461
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 3: more favorable tax and regulatory regime under Trump. They're looking

462
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: forward to much lower energy prices. They're looking forward to

463
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: a better competition i should say, a more competitive environment

464
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: in the sense that they think they'll be more able

465
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 3: to compete with foreign counterparts. A lot of that has

466
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 3: to do with the tariff discussion that we just had.

467
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: And again this is not simply a single survey of

468
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: small businesses in the country. What we find when we

469
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: look at the regional Federal Reserve banks, they do surveys

470
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 3: of both manufacturers and the service industry. We find the

471
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: exact same thing. Optimism is through the roof the issue though,

472
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: is the fact that although they expect future conditions to

473
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: be much improved, Lisa, the problem is that current conditions

474
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 3: in all these different surveys continue deteriorating. In other words,

475
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: things right now are still getting worse. We saw that

476
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: in the most recent inflation data for December, where inflation

477
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: rose so much should I should say prices rose so

478
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: much faster than incomes in the month of December, that

479
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: we saw the average Americans real income fall yet again.

480
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: So it's already down like three percent in November in

481
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 3: real or inflation adjusted terms, and then after December it's

482
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: down now three point two percent. So again the situation

483
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: is bad and it's deteriorating, not a good place to

484
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: be in. And all of this future optimism is great,

485
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: but future optimism does not pay today's bills, and so

486
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: we continue to see Americans fall behind when it comes

487
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 3: to things like credit card debt. We continue to see

488
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: the rate of delinquencies and defaults on credit card debt,

489
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: on auto loans, all of those things are picking up

490
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: student loans that's going to go through the roof really

491
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: really fast. The only reason it hasn't been going up

492
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: these are the defaults and delinquencies that is is because

493
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: the Biden administration conveniently changed the rules on credit reporting,

494
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: so they gave essentially a reprieve where if you are

495
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: delinquent on your student loans, it's not going to get

496
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: reported to credit credit bureaus. Well, that just ended again

497
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: very conveniently timed with the election. So now you can

498
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: expect in twenty twenty five the rate of loan non

499
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: performance or in other words, people not paying on those

500
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: student loans, that is going to absolutely go through the

501
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: roof as people can't afford to pay their student loans,

502
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 3: something that was already happening, but is finally going to

503
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: get reported to credit agencies. So it's not a good

504
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: situation where we are right now. But at the same time,

505
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 3: cometh the hour, cometh the man. I think Trump is

506
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 3: the right guy to steer the ship of state through

507
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 3: these troubled waters. I think his energy policy, his immigration policy,

508
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: his regulatory policy, his tax policy. I think all of

509
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 3: these are the winning formula that we need. It's just

510
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: that we're going to be coming at this from a

511
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: very very low level, and it's going to take time

512
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 3: for us to climb back to where we were when

513
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: Biden took office. It's not that it's not going to happen.

514
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: It's not that it's not doable. It's just that it's

515
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: going to take a lot of work.

516
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick commercial break. More with

517
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: EJ and Tony on the other side. I quoted you

518
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: when I was on air now two long ago on

519
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Outnumbered and we were talking about the H one B

520
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: visa discussion that really kind of took fire on social media,

521
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: particularly on X and you said this near a quote

522
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: you said over the last year, Native born Americans have

523
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: lost almost eight eight hundred thousand jobs. Well, foreign born

524
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: workers have gained over one million jobs. The US labor

525
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: market is turning into a temp agency for foreign workers

526
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: and government bureaucrats. How has the influx and the incoming

527
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: of legal aliens and immigrants to the United States shaped

528
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: the workforce and what does that mean for Americans?

529
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: Well, great, great questions, and you're absolutely right with the

530
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: numbers there. We literally have fewer Americans working today, Lisa,

531
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: than we did before the pandemic. So over the last

532
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 3: five years, Americans have lost ground. I mean, that's terrible,

533
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: especially when you consider the fact that the population has

534
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: gone up. It's not as if the American population is

535
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: collapsing here. And yes, I understand that people are retiring,

536
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: but even once you take those retirees into account, you

537
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: still have a lower labor force participation rate, and even

538
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: among the prime age in other words, the people who

539
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: are in their peak working years, if you want to

540
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: call it that. The only reason why that is up

541
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: is because that includes foreign labor. So it's not as

542
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: if Americans are the ones getting all of these jobs

543
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: that Biden keeps talking about. It's foreign workers. Their employment

544
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: is up over three and a half million now again

545
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: compared to pre pandemic. So why are Americans so unhappy

546
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: with the labor market. It's because they're not the ones

547
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 3: getting the jobs. And instead, what we have seen, in

548
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: large part because of this administration's crazy immigration policies, has

549
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: been corporations being able to rely heavily on cheap foreign labor,

550
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: much of which is actually under the table. And what's

551
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: interesting is that even the Biden administration admits on the

552
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: Bureau Labor Statistics website that their their category of foreign

553
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 3: born workers includes an unknown number of illegal aliens. And

554
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: so you can't tell me that this is just all

555
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: you know, people coming here legally, you know, with H

556
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: one B visas or whatever the case may be. No,

557
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: a huge part of this has to has to do

558
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: with the influx of cheap illegal labor essentially coming into

559
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 3: this country. And that's part of the reason why when

560
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: we break out wage growth among different cohorts, you can

561
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: see that low skilled or unskilled labor that has that

562
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: cohort has seen some of the worst wage growth over

563
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: the last four years, because that's where you're getting the

564
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: massive increase in supply. Well, the you know, if you

565
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: increase supply, you decrease price. That's econ one on one

566
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: the price of labor. We call that wages. So there

567
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: you go. And one of the things that this administration

568
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 3: is going to have to do is not just seal

569
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: up the border and stop that flow of illegal immigration,

570
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: not just deport the illegals who are already here. But

571
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: on top of that, they're going to have to consider

572
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 3: some serious reforms of programs that you mentioned, Like, they're

573
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: going to have to really look at H one B

574
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 3: and they're going to have to think, Okay, is this

575
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: program actually doing what we want it to do? Well,

576
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: what do we want it to do. We want it

577
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: to attract the best and brightest, literally from around the world.

578
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: We want anybody who is productive, highly productive, who can

579
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: add to society. We want those people to come here

580
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 3: to the United States. We want them to add to

581
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: our society. We want them to increase production here because

582
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: that benefits Americans. That increases real wage growth across the

583
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: income scale, That increases the standard of living. It brings

584
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: down the cost of living by having those highly skilled

585
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: professionals here in America. By the way, this does nothing

586
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: for me, right, I want to import more PhDs, not

587
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: people who didn't even graduate high school, people who have

588
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: little to no skills. I want more people here who

589
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: are going to compete with folks like me. This is

590
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: not going to help my wage growth, but you know

591
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: who it is going to help, Lisa. It's going to

592
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: help the average American. It's going to help the guy

593
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: who's starting his career, the guy or gal who doesn't

594
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: yet have any skills, but they're getting their first job

595
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: where they're going to acquire some skills. They're going to

596
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: learn things like how to deal with the boss, with coworkers,

597
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: with customers, how to show up on time. They're going

598
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 3: to show leadership skills, they're going to learn entrepreneurial skills,

599
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 3: all of these things that you get on the first job.

600
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: That's your first rung on the ladder of success. But

601
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 3: you cut out that wrung on the ladder of success

602
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: when you force Americans to compete with illegal labor at

603
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: wages which they can't compete. And so again, it doesn't

604
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: even matter if this person is ultimately going to end

605
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 3: up as high skilled labor or continue their whole career

606
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: as relatively low skilled labor. And that's fine. People can

607
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: still make a good living that way, provided you have

608
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 3: a labor market that's structured in a manner which allows

609
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 3: everyone to succeed. And so that again, that's going to

610
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: involve looking at programs like the H one B visa

611
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: and saying, all right, we need to reform this in

612
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: such a way that it attracts the best and the

613
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: brightest only and so that companies can't abuse it. And

614
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: there have been lots of ideas floated which have garnered

615
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: a lot of attention by folks like Elon Musk and

616
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: Vivek Ramaswami. You know, that has sparked a whole bunch

617
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: of different discussions on platforms like x and elsewhere in

618
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: the media. You know, some of which some of those

619
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: discussions you yourself have had with people, Lisa, And at

620
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: the end of the day, we need again to make

621
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: sure that our immigration system doesn't serve the rest of

622
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 3: the world, should serve Americans, because again, this is America

623
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 3: and we're about America first. Now, the other part, if

624
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: I may, of that quote that you mentioned was the

625
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: fact that we're turning the labor market into something that

626
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: serves foreign labor, but also it's a temp agency and

627
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 3: it's serving government bureaucrats. The reason that that temp agency

628
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 3: component is in there is that if we look at

629
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 3: in the labor market right now what's going on with

630
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: full time work versus part time work. We are absolutely

631
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: hemorrhaging full time jobs. In fact, if you look at

632
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 3: where we were in December again that's just the latest

633
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: data we have right now, the economy was down one

634
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: point three million jobs compared to June of twenty twenty three.

635
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 3: So over the course of a year and a half,

636
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: we hemorrhaged one point three million jobs. So where did

637
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: all the job growth come. It has literally all been

638
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: part time work. All net job growth in the last

639
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 3: year and a half, think of that has all been

640
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: part time jobs. A lot of that has to do

641
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: with people losing their full time work and having to

642
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: replace it with multiple part time jobs. This is why

643
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: you're increasing the number of jobs without actually increasing the

644
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: number of people who are employed. In fact, what you

645
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: just saw again in the month of December was the

646
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: number of people employed was down almost a quarter million

647
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 3: over the last thirteen months. I mean, these are terrible,

648
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: terrible numbers. And then finally, the other thing mentioning the

649
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 3: government bureaucrats over the course of last year, the number

650
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: of people in government surveys who reported that they were

651
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: now working for the government jumped by almost half a million.

652
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: So that plays directly into the unemployment rate, which is

653
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: being kept down because of all this hiring by government.

654
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: And we have never had so many government jobs in

655
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 3: our nation's history before. And even if we want to

656
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: think of things like, okay, what about government jobs as

657
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: a percent of the population or as a percent of

658
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: total jobs, it is still rising at a very alarming rate.

659
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 3: And on top of that, we also have to remember

660
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: that there are a lot of what we would call

661
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: private sector jobs LISA that aren't actually paid for by

662
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 3: the private sector. When the government gives a grant to

663
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 3: a hospital, let's say, and that hospital hires a nurse,

664
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: or even if they hire a janitor, doesn't matter. That

665
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: salary is paid for by the taxpayer. You could call

666
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 3: that an indirect hire by government. So the issue here

667
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 3: is the fact that you need many, many private sector

668
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 3: jobs being added every month to support a single government

669
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 3: job being added that month, and the ratio is probably

670
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: at least forty to one. I've seen some estimates that

671
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: are a lot higher, that are closer to eighty or

672
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 3: ninety to one, but whatever the case, we are nowhere

673
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 3: near a sustainable ratio right now because about half of

674
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: all job growth that we've seen over the last year

675
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: was either a direct or indirect hire by the government.

676
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 3: In other words, about half of all our job growth

677
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: was someone being whose salary is paid for by taxpayer dollars.

678
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: That is completely unsustainable.

679
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, EJ and TONI, I appreciate your time, Thanks so

680
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: much for coming on the show and look forward to

681
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: having you back one and hopefully a discussion about things

682
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: going right and continuing to go right. So appreciate your time.

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00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: Here's hoping, Lisa, thank you very much for having me.

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00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: That was EJ.

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00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: And Tony with the Heritage Foundation. Appreciate him for making

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00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: the time. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every

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00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: Monday and Thursday, but of course you can listen throughout

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00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: the week on to Thank John Cassio, my producer, for

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00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: putting the show together.

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Speaker 2: Until next time,