Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
Speaker 1: and ever though in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. All eyes on the
Speaker 2: AI data center debt debate. We discussed stocks to watch
Speaker 2: as big tech piles on big debt. Plus investors pull
Speaker 2: three and a half billion dollars from bitcoin ets in
Speaker 2: November as the underlying asset is its worst performance since
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty two collapse, and the CEO of Ironq
Speaker 2: joins as the company's new partnership to develop quantum enabled
Speaker 2: drones for national security rolls out. But first let's check
Speaker 2: in on these markets. We are on tenter hooks. We
Speaker 2: of course have a shortened week, a holiday week as
Speaker 2: we anticipate Thanksgiving in the United States, and still anxiety
Speaker 2: bruise about which AI names to be holding onto into
Speaker 2: the end of the year or to be selling. And
Speaker 2: video just turned to the red. But I'm looking at
Speaker 2: the Nazak one hundred holding onto games more than two
Speaker 2: percent higher. Broadcom charges higher, Alphabet does two Bitcoin, though
Speaker 2: not charging higher. We got some reprieve over the weekend
Speaker 2: of course at Treys twenty four to seven, but we're
Speaker 2: still down one and a half percent. Eighty six thousand
Speaker 2: is where we currently see. We'll dive into bitcoin and
Speaker 2: crypto a little bit more in the show, but move
Speaker 2: on to the individual movers because a new record high.
Speaker 2: Alphabet's up another five percent on the day, So much
Speaker 2: love for Gemini three. Meanwhile, I'm seeing the socks doing well.
Speaker 2: Broad Coms on the higher side. In fact, a lot
Speaker 2: of the Magnificent seven names across the board of training
Speaker 2: higher Teza for example. But want to shine to like
Speaker 2: one particular tech stop right now. Amazon is in the green,
Speaker 2: but we're sticking really with documents. More broadly in AI reviewing,
Speaker 2: as Bloomberg has that Amazon's data center footprint has been
Speaker 2: growing tremendously amid the AI boom. One key to this
Speaker 2: is the use of co location facilities around the world.
Speaker 2: This rented space to stash servers made up a fifth
Speaker 2: are the company's cloud capacity last year. The person who's
Speaker 2: been going through all the documents, as Bloomberg's Matt Day
Speaker 2: who covers Amazon, Matt talk us through why this is
Speaker 2: pretty amazing. Nine hundred data centers being own, managed, or
Speaker 2: indeed least or co leased by Amazon.
Speaker 3: Most people know that Amazon's cloud business is enormous, but
Speaker 3: this kind of shows us exactly how enormous. Right, Most
Speaker 3: cloud computing companies don't tell you exactly where their facilities are,
Speaker 3: and one thing they really don't talk about is where
Speaker 3: they rent space. So these documents we reviewed, you know,
Speaker 3: as you said, it's about a fifth of aws's computing
Speaker 3: power as of last year was provided by co location facilities.
Speaker 3: These things are all over the world. There's hundreds and
Speaker 3: hundreds of them. Just another way to underline how much
Speaker 3: both they've grown during the AI boom and just how
Speaker 3: wide their leaders in cloud computing.
Speaker 2: Because Matt, we kind of think about Amazon, we think Virginia,
Speaker 2: We think enormous data centers that they own, that they operate,
Speaker 2: and that's the majority. But why have they needed to
Speaker 2: build out these third parties, these co locations so much
Speaker 2: more so? There's a couple of reasons.
Speaker 3: I mean, one is when they set up shop in
Speaker 3: a new market, sometimes they're not confident enough in the
Speaker 3: ramp of demand that they want some options, right, go
Speaker 3: rent some space, you know. Sometimes it's a speed to
Speaker 3: market thing. You can expand faster and seeing a poor
Speaker 3: buy renting space and you can by developing or purchasing
Speaker 3: land and developing it yourself. So it's really a way
Speaker 3: for them to get flexibility and the particularly internationally, which
Speaker 3: is where we understand most of their collos are.
Speaker 2: It's a deep dive. I urge people to go read it.
Speaker 2: Matt Day, thanks for bringing us the latest on Amazon's
Speaker 2: build out when it comes to AI infrastructure. But the
Speaker 2: AI buildout is meant that, in fact, big tech firms
Speaker 2: are taking on a lot of debt at the moment,
Speaker 2: but the sale of issuance, the scale of it might
Speaker 2: risk overwhelming buyers and it could weaken the credit market
Speaker 2: on both sides of the Atlantic. That's according to analysts.
Speaker 2: Let's debate all of that with j Hatfield, a CEO
Speaker 2: and CIO and Infrastructure Capital Advisors. You actually own Amazon
Speaker 2: in one of your funds, and I'm interested more broadly
Speaker 2: about what you've thought about how companies are paying for
Speaker 2: the build up in AI data centers right now? Jake,
Speaker 2: does it give you pause?
Speaker 4: Well, I think there's one area where people are concerned,
Speaker 4: and that's because parts we've been saying for a while
Speaker 4: that there's no bubble in the market as a whole,
Speaker 4: but I do think there's bubbles in parts of the market.
Speaker 4: Obviously crypto, but even with open Ai, they traded twenty
Speaker 4: five times revenue versus seven times for the mag eight
Speaker 4: and three times for the market, and that concerned about
Speaker 4: open and they have one point four trillion of obligations,
Speaker 4: so that concerned is leaking into other companies like Oracle,
Speaker 4: But generally most of the commitments are coming from the
Speaker 4: magate who have tremendous not just cash flow but free
Speaker 4: cash flow, are great businesses, so we're not overall worried.
Speaker 4: And also I just point out it's not so much
Speaker 4: people think they're going to default. It just applying man
Speaker 4: Oracles CBS is like one hundred and ten over, which
Speaker 4: is not that attractive even for investment grade. So just
Speaker 4: that there has been a lot of issuance that means
Speaker 4: that you have to pay more to issue. So I
Speaker 4: don't think it's a big credit concern, But there's an
Speaker 4: open issue about really whether open Ai, if you will,
Speaker 4: will really be able to beat out Google and other
Speaker 4: incumbents in the long run, and whether that's a little
Speaker 4: bit of a bubble.
Speaker 2: We're looking at credit default swaps of Oracle right now,
Speaker 2: which have almost been used as a hedge. To your point,
Speaker 2: many aren't thinking Oracles about the default, but there have
Speaker 2: been placed perhaps on watch negative by some of the
Speaker 2: big rating companies and people just thinking that this is
Speaker 2: a way in which you perhaps protect yourself to the downside.
Speaker 2: I'm interested, Jay, therefore, on how we've seen Mazooho calling
Speaker 2: it out today saying that many have been shorting supplies
Speaker 2: to open Ai while buying into suppliers of Google for example.
Speaker 2: How long can that tension last?
Speaker 4: Well, we think it's probably that trades are getting a
Speaker 4: little bit tired. You notice said Oracle is bouncing back,
Speaker 4: you know, the stalk with fifty percent higher or thirty
Speaker 4: three percent higher if you will, Yeah, fifty percent upside
Speaker 4: from here, just you know, three weeks ago, three four
Speaker 4: weeks ago. So I think that trade's probably fully done.
Speaker 4: Microsoft is getting getting smacked and is pretty cheap, so
Speaker 4: open Aye is not dead yet. It's just that there's
Speaker 4: clearly competition to the retail side, so that I think
Speaker 4: is mostly priced in. Also, keep in mind that we
Speaker 4: had normal market weakness after earning season, the market was
Speaker 4: fully valued. We had a seven thousand target. We were
Speaker 4: just shy of that. Maggie was slightly overvalued by our models.
Speaker 4: So some pullback and readjustment is normal this time of year,
Speaker 4: right after earning season.
Speaker 2: I mean, the hundreds of millions of chutching PTUs as
Speaker 2: would definitely say that everyone AI is anything but dead.
Speaker 2: But the anxiety, in many ways, this is built at
Speaker 2: the same time as we saw warriors in the market
Speaker 2: about not getting a rate cut in December. How much
Speaker 2: is this is macro? How much of this is actually
Speaker 2: specific to AI?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I would have said, actually incorrectly, I
Speaker 4: guess that the FED was not a big overhend hanging
Speaker 4: on the market. But you did see Friday that the
Speaker 4: Williams comments, which are important the head of the New
Speaker 4: York FED is a permanent member of the FOMC. His
Speaker 4: dubbish comments kind of turned everything around. I think too much.
Speaker 4: I think it's at best fifty to fifty we get
Speaker 4: a cut, but because of Williams, will at least get
Speaker 4: a dubvish pause. And all that really matters is that
Speaker 4: we keep the tenure round four percent. To keep the
Speaker 4: tenure round four you need the terminal rate to be
Speaker 4: about three. You can track that on a terminal MIPR,
Speaker 4: and so as long as investors think there will be cuts,
Speaker 4: they don't have to be In December.
Speaker 2: Jay, I want to ask you a question of out
Speaker 2: really and who is driving this market because has this
Speaker 2: sell off washed out some of the long only long
Speaker 2: term investors in the AI trade or has this been
Speaker 2: more quants, Has this been more retail, Has this been
Speaker 2: more short term investors that have seen some of the
Speaker 2: downside of Lake.
Speaker 4: Well, it's absolutely blown up the momentum. Short term traders,
Speaker 4: whether the institutional or retail, are funds, you know, like
Speaker 4: we hold Amazon and IICAP, they've actually been outperforming because
Speaker 4: they're more conservative. We have few tech stocks there, but
Speaker 4: more dividend stocks, small caps of doing well like our
Speaker 4: s cap fund third stocks. So we actually like these
Speaker 4: kind of markets because people have focused on cash flow
Speaker 4: and earnings and valuation typically outperform and they're really dumb
Speaker 4: stuff like crypto treasury companies that are no longer needed
Speaker 4: because we have ETFs get washed out. So really healthy
Speaker 4: pull back with most of the really damage coming to
Speaker 4: the to the investors that don't pay attention to valuation.
Speaker 2: I just want to go full circle HEREJ, because we
Speaker 2: end we started on Amazon, we end on Amazon. I
Speaker 2: know you hold Amazon, and we just got breaking news
Speaker 2: that AWS is going to be building and deploying the
Speaker 2: first ever AI and high performance computing purpose built infrastructure
Speaker 2: for the US government new investment nearly one point th
Speaker 2: we giggaats they're talking about fifty billion dollars here J,
Speaker 2: Is that how you want to see Amazon committing to
Speaker 2: the AI trade?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we think that they are still the leader in
Speaker 4: the cloud service business. But what we think is missed
Speaker 4: and why we're bullish on Amazon beyond just the normal
Speaker 4: EI trade, is that they have this gigantic retail business
Speaker 4: we all know, and they now have professional management that's
Speaker 4: working to make it adequately profitable. So that's creating tremendous
Speaker 4: earnings growth away from the AI trade, and we think
Speaker 4: it's underappreciated. You know, it includes advertising, which is really
Speaker 4: a cost offset. So that's the biggest reason we're bullish
Speaker 4: on AWS and Amazon because they do have a little
Speaker 4: bit of a disadvance because they're an incumbent and everybody
Speaker 4: else is pouring money into cloud service business. They have
Speaker 4: strong competitors there, but an underappreciated retail business with a
Speaker 4: lot of upside on profitability.
Speaker 2: J Hatfield, I've structed Capital Advisors. Great to have some
Speaker 2: time with you. Wish you are very happy Thanksgiving And
Speaker 2: while coming up US commerce sextorly, Howard Utnick says the
Speaker 2: decision for in video chip sales to China, whether they're
Speaker 2: on President Trump's desk more on H two hundred's being debated. Next. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: let's check in on what Ali Baba is up to.
Speaker 2: Shares had been surging today the ADRs, in particular why
Speaker 2: well Quinn The app drew more than ten million downloads
Speaker 2: in the week after its relaunch. This is all about
Speaker 2: its generator of AI offering as well. From New York
Speaker 2: disciply by Tech.
Speaker 5: Do you want to sell China some chips and keep
Speaker 5: them using our tech and our tech stack, or do
Speaker 5: you say to them, look, we're not going to sell
Speaker 5: you our best chips. We just going to hold off
Speaker 5: on that and we're going to compete in the AI
Speaker 5: race ourselves. So that is the question. It's in front
Speaker 5: of the President. He's going to decide. It's a really
Speaker 5: really interesting question. He's got all the information, he's got
Speaker 5: lots and lots of experts talking to him, and he's
Speaker 5: going to decide which way he wants to go forward.
Speaker 2: US Commas Secretary Howard Ladings meeking of bluembog surveillance earlier today,
Speaker 2: as President Trump wighs whether or not to allow the
Speaker 2: sales of Nvidia AI chips to China, for all, Blue
Speaker 2: Vagazine and Tech editor Mike Sheppard joins us with the
Speaker 2: nuance that this is potentially H two hundreds that are
Speaker 2: being debated, more sophisticated than H twenties that already we
Speaker 2: understand they would allow to be sold with a fifteen
Speaker 2: percent cut. But even that hasn't got legal sign off.
Speaker 6: Well, that doesn't have legal sign off, and this falls
Speaker 6: short of the Blackwell design chips that have been bandied
Speaker 6: about just a few weeks ago as the President was
Speaker 6: prepared to meet with his Chinese counterpart, Hiesipang. Ultimately that
Speaker 6: kind of a transaction never even came up in the
Speaker 6: conversations between the two leaders. And yet the whole broader
Speaker 6: issue of whether Nvidia would be able to sell a
Speaker 6: more sophisticated version of its AI chips to China really
Speaker 6: hasn't gone away completely. And we had our exclusive last
Speaker 6: week Cara that you saw showing that the President and
Speaker 6: his advisors are deliberating this question, and it appears that
Speaker 6: they are settled on whether or not to allow the
Speaker 6: H two hundred, which is of the Hopper design and
Speaker 6: still a very fast and very powerful AI chip. If
Speaker 6: they allowed this sale, it would be a big change
Speaker 6: in US export control policy with respect to China and
Speaker 6: artificial intelligence. The Trump administration and its predecessor of the
Speaker 6: Biden administration view China as the top us competitor in
Speaker 6: this area of artificial intelligence, and granting them China that
Speaker 6: is the technology to be able to advance in this
Speaker 6: race is a very sensitive question here in Washington.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how does it break down on Hawk lines, on
Speaker 2: those in the administration and those around the administration, because
Speaker 2: there is this ongoing tussle as to whether or not
Speaker 2: in Video, which of course itself wants access to China,
Speaker 2: would just be allowing domestic competitors to brew if they're
Speaker 2: unable to sell.
Speaker 6: Well, Kar, I'm glad you asked that, because that really
Speaker 6: is the debate right now, and Jensen Wang is very
Speaker 6: much at the center. He has been arguing that, look,
Speaker 6: if we want to compete with China, globally in the
Speaker 6: race for artificial intelligence dominance, we need to be able
Speaker 6: to compete inside China too, and that means we will
Speaker 6: have to sell some of our technology in the Chinese market,
Speaker 6: which happens to be the world's largest market for semiconductors
Speaker 6: right now. Now, that is an argument that is one
Speaker 6: some favorite inside the administration. You heard during the interview
Speaker 6: this morning between our colleagues Lisa Bramowitz and Danny Berger
Speaker 6: and the Commerce Secretor, Howard Lutnik. The Secretary articulated that
Speaker 6: himself that there is is attention and a debate. There
Speaker 6: are others who are more hawkish on the national security side,
Speaker 6: though Caro, who view granting China any sort of access
Speaker 6: to this sophisticated technology simply paves the way for creating
Speaker 6: more risk for the US. It would grant Beijing's authorities,
Speaker 6: including the military and intelligence apparatus, access to more sophisticated
Speaker 6: technology and artificial intelligence that they currently than they currently
Speaker 6: have right now, and it could allow for more surveillance
Speaker 6: and other uses in advanced weaponry that the US would
Speaker 6: just as soon not see happen.
Speaker 2: Bloombags mac Shephard. We appreciate you joining today, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. Meanwhile, the President Trump is busy. He's also
Speaker 2: escalating his attacks on the media, saying television networks shouldn't
Speaker 2: be allowed to expand. Now in a post on truth
Speaker 2: Social Trump's side to concerns about the potential growth of
Speaker 2: left leaning news outlets. This in response to a Newsmax
Speaker 2: report claiming that FEC Commissioner Brennan kar was moving to
Speaker 2: give TV networks great to reach to the proposed merger
Speaker 2: of Next and Tegna for multebricate HORTWN in this world
Speaker 2: of m and A has been most lucas sure, so
Speaker 2: called left leaning news outlets bearing the brund to the attacks.
Speaker 2: But does this mean we're not going to see the
Speaker 2: m and A that we're anticipating in the industry right now?
Speaker 7: Always hard to interpret what President Trump's posts on social
Speaker 7: media actually mean as it pertains the policy. I mean,
Speaker 7: there's also those are different types of consolidation, right You've
Speaker 7: got the continued potential sale of Warner Brothers Discovery, where
Speaker 7: you have Comcast, which owns NBC, one of the networks
Speaker 7: that he talked about is a suitor. You have Paramount,
Speaker 7: which owned CBS, which he exempted because I think he
Speaker 7: likes them as a potential suitor. And then Netflix, which
Speaker 7: does an owner broadcast network, and then you've got the
Speaker 7: consolidation in the local television station space, which is what
Speaker 7: Brendan Carr has been calling for. But Brendan Carr sees
Speaker 7: this almost as a check against the networks because the
Speaker 7: more power that the station owners have, they can actually
Speaker 7: potentially win in negotiations with the networks. So I'm not
Speaker 7: really sure whose side he on here. You assume that
Speaker 7: Brendan Carr is pushing the agenda that he is because
Speaker 7: Trump supports him, because that has generally been his MO.
Speaker 7: But I guess we'll find out more as this sort
Speaker 7: of plays out in public.
Speaker 2: Well, the big playing out that we're all watching and
Speaker 2: initial bids are in is for Warner Brothers. Discovery, which
Speaker 2: owns CNN, is part of that. Yeah, where do we stand.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have a great piece out of the Weekend,
Speaker 2: as you always do in this one, really just showing
Speaker 2: how much Netflix is sort of bowing to potential changes
Speaker 2: in its own business model if it was to win.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So Netflix, Comcast, and Paramount all submit bids on Wednesday,
Speaker 7: excuse me, Thursday, they've done a very good job of
Speaker 7: keeping the content of.
Speaker 2: Those bids quiet.
Speaker 7: We've tried to get some information others have as well.
Speaker 7: I mean we know sort of the general framework, we
Speaker 7: just don't know the pricing. Expectations are that the Warner
Speaker 7: Brothers Discovery Board will review those bids, or has reviewed
Speaker 7: those bids. They'll go back to the three companies and say,
Speaker 7: you know, we need more here, we need less there.
Speaker 7: And it is also so my understanding is still open.
Speaker 7: So if someone else wanted to come in and make
Speaker 7: an offer, they are still available, They're still able to
Speaker 7: We're not in an exclusive period where someone else can't
Speaker 7: jump in yet.
Speaker 2: We'll see how that continues to be picked away at
Speaker 2: by some of the key reporters. Lukashaw will be strong
Speaker 2: among them, I'm certain. So keep eyes on NIOS bids.
Speaker 2: Quantum computing firm IONQ, well, it's just announced the partnership
Speaker 2: with Heaven Aerotech to develop quantum enabled drones as a
Speaker 2: move that will boost iron Qu's presence in national security sector.
Speaker 2: Let's discuss this plan with IMQ CEO Nicolo de Massi. So,
Speaker 2: why does quantum tech need to be introduced to drones? Niccolo.
Speaker 8: Well, it's part of our broader field actually of driving
Speaker 8: the quantum Internet and our full solutions of quantum computing,
Speaker 8: quantum networking and quantum sensing into every theater.
Speaker 6: So we have.
Speaker 8: Quantum sensors that work on submarines for inertial navigation and
Speaker 8: on ships on the top of the ocean. We of
Speaker 8: course have quantum networks in quantum computers on the land,
Speaker 8: and we're building quantum economies in various jurisdictions and states
Speaker 8: around the world. And of course we've also got our
Speaker 8: satellite signals intelligence business up in space, and so drones
Speaker 8: were the missing piece of the four theaters. Where we
Speaker 8: now have quantum networking, quantum computing, and quantum sensors in
Speaker 8: partnership with Heaven up in the air.
Speaker 2: What will it help Heaven do? And why are you
Speaker 2: going with Heaven when it's still undergoing field evaluation with
Speaker 2: the US military.
Speaker 8: Well, look, it's a partnership that is fantastically pioneering given
Speaker 8: the range of their drones, their hydrogen powered. Obviously this
Speaker 8: doesn't prohibit us from broadening out our engagement with the
Speaker 8: drone ecosystem. At the same time, you know, they're very
Speaker 8: tech forward as an organization, and so we love the
Speaker 8: fact that they want to pioneer with us quantum networking
Speaker 8: communications between drones in their fleet. They want to work
Speaker 8: with us on our quantum computers to help, you know,
Speaker 8: not only coordinate their fleet, but also enact surveillance and
Speaker 8: early signal detection using our computers in conjunction with satellite
Speaker 8: imagery that we can provide, plus of course imagery that
Speaker 8: they can provide. And then, last but not least, of course,
Speaker 8: they're interested in embedding our quantum sensors and positioning, navigation
Speaker 8: and time advances and technologies into their drone platform. So
Speaker 8: you know, where there's a will is a way, right,
Speaker 8: And the reality is we consider ourselves to be a
Speaker 8: pioneering company. Thirty years making we have led every aspect
Speaker 8: of quantum computing and quantum networking and quantum sensing for
Speaker 8: thirty years. We're the first public company in the space,
Speaker 8: the first machines that turned on, the first machines on
Speaker 8: the public cloud, and today we're extending that capability to
Speaker 8: another theater, which we find tremendously exciting.
Speaker 2: There, of course, pioneering and hydrogen. You're saying you're pioneering
Speaker 2: by being first public company really focused on quantum, What
Speaker 2: actually are you doing for your partners right now, Niclo.
Speaker 2: Many understand the promise of quantum, but you say you're
Speaker 2: in the field with RQ FOURTE, with Q four D Enterprise,
Speaker 2: you're already working with AWS with AstraZeneca and video. You
Speaker 2: sort of say you're achieving twenty x performance results, performance
Speaker 2: results of what.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So the Astrosenic in partnership that you're referring to
Speaker 8: is I think the most powerful example of what we
Speaker 8: call quantum advantage that's ever been generated in history. And
Speaker 8: so I qus proud of the fact that we have
Speaker 8: pioneered every aspect of the quantum revolution, both commercially. In
Speaker 8: the lab, we're the first company to achieve what's called
Speaker 8: four nines of fidelity ninety nine point nine to nine
Speaker 8: percent fidelity, which means that our cubits are the best
Speaker 8: in the world and the highest quality and are the
Speaker 8: most powerful. And so the twenty x speed up is
Speaker 8: turning almost a month of classical computation using a GPU
Speaker 8: data center into just a day and a half. And
Speaker 8: in fact, if you double click on that outcome, we
Speaker 8: actually have portions of the problem that we sped up
Speaker 8: by six hundred and fifty six times. The classical portions
Speaker 8: of the workflow obviously kind of bring down the average,
Speaker 8: but nevertheless, it's a tremendous example of what we're achieving
Speaker 8: in the pharmaceutical the health tech space, if you will,
Speaker 8: using our Forte enterprise systems. Now, our new computer that
Speaker 8: we just announced two months ago in September twelve, Tempo
Speaker 8: is two hundred and sixty million times more powerful than Forte,
Speaker 8: and so you can imagine that we'll be turning not
Speaker 8: just a month of computation into a day and a half,
Speaker 8: but we aspire to turn a year of classical computation
Speaker 8: in a day and a half on our newest machine.
Speaker 2: We've only got a minute left. But you talk about
Speaker 2: how you were the first really pioneering into the public markets, Nicolo,
Speaker 2: public markets are full of anxiety right now. I just
Speaker 2: shine a light on your own share price, which I
Speaker 2: think is down about forty seven percent from its high
Speaker 2: that we had up in October. How is that role
Speaker 2: riding that roller coaster?
Speaker 8: Briefly, well, look, when I say pioneering, it wasn't against
Speaker 8: the public markets. We actually invented the quantum computing category
Speaker 8: back in ninety five when we demonstrated the world's first
Speaker 8: cubic gate at the University of Maryland, and we've pioneered
Speaker 8: every milestone since then, both in the lab and commercially.
Speaker 8: So being a public company we consider to be an
Speaker 8: actual part of our revolution. You know, we raised three
Speaker 8: billion dollars between July and October, and it's you know,
Speaker 8: honestly been part of establishing the sector or communications opportunities
Speaker 8: around the world and ultimately credibility that enables us to
Speaker 8: drive both government traction and private sector commercial traction.
Speaker 2: So we're catch Nikolos. I have to leave it there.
Speaker 2: Nicolo Demassi, thank you. Welcome back to Blue meg Tech.
Speaker 2: Let's tech equip check on these markets, because look, we're hired.
Speaker 2: In fact, we are having the best day on the
Speaker 2: NASTET one hundred since May twenty twenty five. We're up
Speaker 2: two point three percent. Such is the volatility in the
Speaker 2: market right now. Good and Video currently up one point
Speaker 2: seven percent. Earlier in the moments in the show, it
Speaker 2: was in the red, so we really see some anxiety
Speaker 2: in the marketers we head towards holiday shortened week. Bitcoin
Speaker 2: oh still in that anxious moment, we're off by nine
Speaker 2: ten percent eighty seven thousand, but steadier than where we
Speaker 2: were trading over the course of the weekend. So let's
Speaker 2: break down what is causing some of the sell off
Speaker 2: in these momentum trades, whether it's crypto, whether it stocks bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg crypto reporter Emily Nicole joins us Emily, Look, we
Speaker 2: have had a wash out when it comes to ETF flows.
Speaker 2: When it comes to more broadly some of the money,
Speaker 2: the fast money that was in bitcoin. Are we seeing
Speaker 2: some sort of studying.
Speaker 9: We're definitely seeing a bit of recovery. I mean, it
Speaker 9: went as low as eighty five hundred odd on Friday,
Speaker 9: so going back up to about eighty seven thousand today,
Speaker 9: that seems like a pretty good recovery for bitcoin. On
Speaker 9: the ETF front, We're not really going to know the
Speaker 9: data until the end of the day, that's all. We
Speaker 9: might see more of the institutional activity coming in, but
Speaker 9: definitely those who trade over the weekend, those are the
Speaker 9: retail traders predominantly. We're definitely seeing a bit more confidence
Speaker 9: coming back to the market.
Speaker 2: I mean, the key number for everyone to be focusing
Speaker 2: on is that this is the worst month on track
Speaker 2: for the worst month since the FTX crisis, since twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, does it feel like that in the anxiety
Speaker 2: in the market right now, It.
Speaker 9: Definitely feels very unstable. You know, like when everything was
Speaker 9: happening in twenty twenty two, there were clear catalysts for
Speaker 9: why everything was down. We had strings of bankruptcies, fraud scandals,
Speaker 9: you name it. This time around, there isn't really that
Speaker 9: kind of catalyst. We've seen some kind of weakness in
Speaker 9: the crypto market with the mass liquidations that were happening
Speaker 9: in early October. That means that liquidity is kind of down,
Speaker 9: so you would expect some more volatility in bitcoin. And
Speaker 9: then we've also had you know, that's like companies like
Speaker 9: Strategy that acquire lots of cryptocurrency and use that to
Speaker 9: propel their prices upwards. Lots of those have been launching
Speaker 9: into the market and not doing very well. And so
Speaker 9: there are various kind of things that you can point to,
Speaker 9: you know, even the instability and tech stocks in the
Speaker 9: last week, that you can point to and say, maybe
Speaker 9: that's why bitcoin's having this moment. But because there's no
Speaker 9: clear catalyst, no clear sign of why something's so unstable,
Speaker 9: nobody can really point to why it's having such a
Speaker 9: down month.
Speaker 2: Is it also because we're at the end of the year.
Speaker 2: I always think of tax loss harvesting in many ways
Speaker 2: must be in the eye of focus for a lot
Speaker 2: of crypto investors.
Speaker 9: There's always that potential. You know, people are still kind
Speaker 9: of uncertain as to how to even do tax with bitcoin.
Speaker 9: I think not everybody is as clear as how how
Speaker 9: crypto assets are valued, particularly around the world. It differs
Speaker 9: depending on the country you're in, so there could be
Speaker 9: some of that going on. That's not to say though,
Speaker 9: that this is not really an ideal time to be
Speaker 9: selling your bitcoin. It was, you know, over one hundred
Speaker 9: thousand only only earlier this year, So if you were
Speaker 9: looking at selling and taking a profit, I guess eighty
Speaker 9: thousand isn't really the value you wanted to be selling at.
Speaker 2: Emily Nicole, great breakdown, Thank you very much. Indeed on
Speaker 2: all things bitcoin. Look, let's stick with crypto more broadly though,
Speaker 2: because special purpose acquisition companies, you know, the muss facts
Speaker 2: they've made a comeback and then now latching onto guess
Speaker 2: what crypto treasury companies such as the Strategy As we're
Speaker 2: hearing Emily Nicole discuss it's all about emerging tech as
Speaker 2: well as quantum computing. It seems as though when amendmentum
Speaker 2: trait is really there, but research is a warning that
Speaker 2: many every day investors betting on these types of companies
Speaker 2: allowable to lose money. Bloombag's Bailey Lipshals is here for
Speaker 2: all things momentum. So SPACs they're back, but the mean
Speaker 2: sort of getting into the world of crypto treasury companies too.
Speaker 2: Why are they seemingly a match made in heaven or hell, well,
Speaker 2: it's a.
Speaker 10: Match made in heaven because to your point, momentum, so
Speaker 10: things that are trendy are where we've seen SPACs flock
Speaker 10: to think back to Spack one point zero or two
Speaker 10: point zero, depending how long you've been following the industry. Eves,
Speaker 10: we saw Nicol Logo Public, we saw draft Kings when
Speaker 10: sports betting was starting to pick up steam. So as
Speaker 10: we see the transition, as we saw a rush of companies,
Speaker 10: whether it was reverse mergers over the summer, creating digital
Speaker 10: asset treasuries or now SPACs, it really is kind of
Speaker 10: latching onto the latest theme. And then we've seen that
Speaker 10: parlayer turn into quantum just given that the majority of
Speaker 10: companies that are already publicly listed were quantum de SPACs
Speaker 10: back in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: Some people very close to administration are losing a lot
Speaker 2: of money in that. It felt like a lot of
Speaker 2: the sons were out there talking about these digital asset
Speaker 2: treasury companies. Are they hurting? Are they underwater?
Speaker 10: Well, they're hurting is really when you look at the
Speaker 10: whole pitch of dats over the summer, was we can
Speaker 10: traded a premium to the actual cryptocurrencies we're holding and
Speaker 10: will continue to sell shares or convertible debt to fund that. Well,
Speaker 10: those premiums are evaporating. A number of these companies are
Speaker 10: trading below that net asset value. So the big question
Speaker 10: is if the whole market is propped up by companies
Speaker 10: selling shares or converts to buy cryptocurrencies, Well, when we
Speaker 10: enter a bear market, what happens next? And we're seeing
Speaker 10: a lot of this kind of falling down quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Now you've got a wonderful story where you quote Peter Atwater,
Speaker 2: founder of Financial Insights, and he says all of these
Speaker 2: spacks getting involved in crypto asset treasury companies in particular,
Speaker 2: it looks like a a ta Ducan. Ducan, I would
Speaker 2: call it a bird and a bird and a bird.
Speaker 2: Here is a bird and a bird and a bird.
Speaker 2: Why is he saying this is what it feels like?
Speaker 10: So Traducans historically are are chicken stuffed and duck stucked
Speaker 10: in turkey. So if you look at the graphic, the
Speaker 10: crypto is the chicken stuffed in the duck, which is
Speaker 10: the treasury company, which then gets stuffed sicious.
Speaker 2: I've never had one.
Speaker 10: Supposedly they're awesome if they're done well. But the comparison
Speaker 10: from Peter it seems pretty spot on because you're taking
Speaker 10: kind of a concept, if you will, with cryptocurrencies. You're
Speaker 10: putting it into a dats, which were all the rage,
Speaker 10: and then it's like, okay, well why don't we marry
Speaker 10: those with SPACs? And we saw that and are continuing
Speaker 10: to see that play out.
Speaker 2: We'll see if it cooks well or not. You can
Speaker 2: take this analogy from many a place by any Lipschualt's
Speaker 2: ahead of Thanksgiving, we needed that kind of story. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: coming up, Lily Lyman from Underscore VC joins us to
Speaker 2: discuss how AI can drastically impact discoveries in science and healthcare.
Speaker 2: That's next. This is Blue Beg Tech. We've been talking
Speaker 2: all day, all weeks about the concerns around the amount
Speaker 2: debt that firms are taking on in support of the
Speaker 2: data center build out. So there's another d that could
Speaker 2: throw a wrench in the AI boom. Depreciation putting Bagsdina
Speaker 2: maass you cover as AI Infrastructure has been writing about
Speaker 2: the life span of aigpus and bringing bout BusinessWeek You
Speaker 2: join us now. Michael Burr has been talking about it.
Speaker 2: Other player has been talking about it. Should we have
Speaker 2: anxiety about depreciation of mgpus dita, So it's very hard
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 11: We're going to talk a little bit more about accounting
Speaker 11: one on one here. So when you buy a lot
Speaker 11: of physical assets, a company has to decide what the
Speaker 11: useful life span of those assets is and write it
Speaker 11: down over the course of that time period. It's called
Speaker 11: depreciation GPUs, which companies like Meta, like Google, like Microsoft,
Speaker 11: like open Ai are spending tens of billions of dollars
Speaker 11: on them. We really only have a couple of years
Speaker 11: of useful data for how long the current generations of
Speaker 11: those will last and so most of the companies are
Speaker 11: saying are writing them down over the course of five
Speaker 11: to six years.
Speaker 2: But there's real concern.
Speaker 11: Because, as we all know in Nvidia is committed to
Speaker 11: putting out new ones annually and is sort of trying
Speaker 11: to obsolete its own product. So there's a real concern
Speaker 11: about what happens to those how long can they be used?
Speaker 11: If you're writing them down over too long a period
Speaker 11: of time, you might be artificially boosting your profits.
Speaker 2: What was interesting was in in VideA earnings they said,
Speaker 2: look a one hundreds which have actually been officially discontinued,
Speaker 2: they're still up and running. They're still working and efficiently.
Speaker 2: So so they were trying to sort of put some
Speaker 2: calm amid this anxiety. You've got a great quote coming
Speaker 2: from Sarah fry the CFO of open Ai, of course,
Speaker 2: who'd been talking about how they're structuring their GPU depreciation.
Speaker 11: Sure, so Sarah Friar said to us, look, you know,
Speaker 11: on the one hand, we don't really know is it
Speaker 11: four years, is it six years? But what open Ai
Speaker 11: has seen is that they feel good that it's at
Speaker 11: least five and the reason is that they know that
Speaker 11: they're still using their A one hundreds, and the basic
Speaker 11: idea for you know, companies like open ai is use
Speaker 11: the latest chips, the nvideo Blackwells for things like the
Speaker 11: very high end training of the absolute top of the
Speaker 11: line frontier models. The older chips can still be very
Speaker 11: useful for things like inference, so running the actual models.
Speaker 11: And so that's the way that they think that this
Speaker 11: all works. But that all requires, you know, the data
Speaker 11: centers to be what everyone's been calling Satanadel has been
Speaker 11: calling fungible. So it means you can switch what the
Speaker 11: data center does from from training to inference. You can
Speaker 11: switch from one customer to the next. So when a
Speaker 11: customer rolls off and a chip is a little older,
Speaker 11: can you find a new.
Speaker 2: Customer take that older chip.
Speaker 11: That's a lot of the question around, you know, quote
Speaker 11: unquote how fungible these data centers are.
Speaker 2: Well, look, cooleyve was fungible from being a bitcoin minor
Speaker 2: with its GPUs to them being an AI company, and
Speaker 2: many of these neo clouds have pivoted in that way.
Speaker 2: Jan And lastly, we're looking at I've looked at KKR
Speaker 2: for example. They're talking about potential froth and AI investment
Speaker 2: more broadly, and they're sort of trying to understand how
Speaker 2: the end user is using their data centers, but really
Speaker 2: who is on the hook for all of it? They're
Speaker 2: trying to say, Look, data center owners, operators, often it's
Speaker 2: going to be the Lisa who is guaranteed long term payment?
Speaker 2: Do we know who really has to hold the baby
Speaker 2: here and the bust?
Speaker 11: I keep asking people the same question, you know, when
Speaker 11: the music stops, who doesn't have a chair? Because as
Speaker 11: you mentioned about about debt, there's been you know, large
Speaker 11: amounts of debt contracts, you know, financing.
Speaker 2: Of these GPUs.
Speaker 11: And if the GPUs are useful for less time than
Speaker 11: we think, what are the people that you know are
Speaker 11: holding debt on them do do they ask for more collateral?
Speaker 2: Do they?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 11: How does this all go? And you know people that
Speaker 11: we spoke to dead say that regulators and investors have
Speaker 11: to think about how far the quote contagion is going
Speaker 11: to spread if this all, you know, sort of comes
Speaker 11: home to roost at once.
Speaker 2: Dana Bass on the optimistic side, we appreciate it, lovely
Speaker 2: to have you in town amid this Thanksgiving holiday. With
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Meanwhile, markets, look they're trying to weigh the
Speaker 2: risk of depreciation on one side, but there's also the hope,
Speaker 2: the hope that AI will pay off, particularly say in
Speaker 2: life sciences and healthcare discoveries. Already, major AI pays like
Speaker 2: Anthropic have stepped into this area with models aimed at
Speaker 2: boosting research and development. Now investors see an opportunity too.
Speaker 2: Lelyman is managing partner over Unschool VC as a Boston
Speaker 2: based early stage investor in startups like Tetrascience, h one
Speaker 2: Quilt Health in New York, not Boston. You really think Boston, though,
Speaker 2: is going to potentially be a winning trade when you
Speaker 2: think about the confluence of what's going to win out
Speaker 2: if healthcare is supercharged by AI.
Speaker 12: Well, Caroline, thanks so much for having me here in
Speaker 12: the studio. It's great to be back and look, as
Speaker 12: investors are always looking for a clearer why now in
Speaker 12: a market opportunity, and we are certainly seeing a signs
Speaker 12: of transformation in life sciences and AI. What's changed is
Speaker 12: that we now have the data, we have the sophistication
Speaker 12: of the models, that we have real industry pull to
Speaker 12: unlock this potential, and what it could do is unlocked
Speaker 12: four trillion dollars worth of value across life sciences and healthcare.
Speaker 12: What's changed is that biology is no longer just a
Speaker 12: wet lab discipline. It is now a data and information industry.
Speaker 12: Many people are calling it tech bio, and we had
Speaker 12: Underscore as preceed and seed investors and particularly based in
Speaker 12: Boston are incredibly excited about this because it's opened up
Speaker 12: a whole new world of software investing opportunities in the
Speaker 12: world of science.
Speaker 2: Can I go to that four trillion number? Yeah, what's
Speaker 2: that pegtopon? What is it that we're seeing that will
Speaker 2: be fueled and to goner four trillion dollars of worth?
Speaker 12: Well, if you think about what the life science and
Speaker 12: the combination of life sciences and actually honestly all of
Speaker 12: scientific data and healthcare, it's across the gamut of how
Speaker 12: this gets done today. I mean today it takes two
Speaker 12: to three billion dollars per drug and decades to develop
Speaker 12: these therapies. Think about if that can get cost you know,
Speaker 12: if that can get changed to be a fraction of
Speaker 12: the cost and a fraction of the time. The economic
Speaker 12: and the human impact of that is absolutely enormous. So
Speaker 12: the opportunity we see is across the entire value chain
Speaker 12: in life sciences. So whether it's research and discovery, whether
Speaker 12: it's in preclinical and clinical trials, and services, manufacturing, development,
Speaker 12: and deployment. You put all that together and it's not
Speaker 12: hard to see how there could be a four trillion
Speaker 12: dollar opportunity coming out of this.
Speaker 2: And you said, you're seeing signs. What all the signs
Speaker 2: on what all the software companies that are leveraging those signs.
Speaker 12: We're seeing signs across all the different players in the market.
Speaker 12: So the major pharma companies are certainly making moves in
Speaker 12: this space. They are under enormous pressures. I mean, the
Speaker 12: cost of R and D is rising. It basically doubles
Speaker 12: every nine years. They are facing issues with their margins.
Speaker 12: They're facing a potential two hundred and sixty billion dollar
Speaker 12: revenue cliff as some of their patents expired, and so
Speaker 12: that's creating the market poll.
Speaker 2: For AI solutions.
Speaker 12: They are partnering with often many times startup companies. So
Speaker 12: for example, Taketa just launched their partnership with Tetrascience, which
Speaker 12: is a company we're invested in. Think of Tetrascience like
Speaker 12: the snowflake specifically for scientific data and what it's doing
Speaker 12: is it's partnering with all the major technology players in Vidia, Google, Microsoft,
Speaker 12: Data Bricks, Snowflake and rallying the tech stack around this
Speaker 12: opportunity to unlock scientific data so it can actually be
Speaker 12: used by models. And so in this one, what they're
Speaker 12: able to do is working with Deicata on hundreds of
Speaker 12: use cases so AI can sit on top and use
Speaker 12: this data and it's driving ninety percent faster workflows, forty
Speaker 12: percent increase in productivity. So we're seeing that type of
Speaker 12: adoption in partnership across the major pharma players and startups.
Speaker 2: How does a photo company compete with an anthropic who's
Speaker 2: getting into a similar space.
Speaker 12: People always love to ask that question, how do how
Speaker 12: do startups compete with the incumbents? And I always think that, yes,
Speaker 12: incumbents have the advantage of data and distribution, but startups
Speaker 12: have the advantage of focus and speed. And so we're
Speaker 12: seeing those opportunities across the board. I mean, there's a
Speaker 12: company we're invested in called Terraflow, which is automating the
Speaker 12: analysis and data around flow cytometry, and again I mentioned Tetrascience.
Speaker 12: You know, these are opportunities that require very specific domain
Speaker 12: focus very specific types of people who can do it,
Speaker 12: and the ability to build in an AI native way
Speaker 12: from the ground up. The nthropics of the world. Open
Speaker 12: AI is also launched in this space. They also are
Speaker 12: going to need to do the practical implementation and so
Speaker 12: they're going to need partners along the way to do it.
Speaker 12: So I think it's not a zero sum game. I
Speaker 12: think there's an opportunity for collaboration, Sony, you think so.
Speaker 2: Lillly Lyman is over in New York for a short while.
Speaker 2: We appreciate her coming into the studio. Managing partner at
Speaker 2: Underscore VC online travel and experience booking company Peak, it
Speaker 2: is doubling down on AI. It's acquiring ACME Ticketing and
Speaker 2: Connect and Go and the move Physician's Peak to expand
Speaker 2: its reach across museums, theme parks, tours and other attractions.
Speaker 2: The company also raised additional seventy million dollars in funding.
Speaker 2: Here to talk it all through is Peak c Rizwana Busche.
Speaker 2: So you call yourself the Shop of five Experiences, explain
Speaker 2: what that is basically with the operating system that works
Speaker 2: with museum, tours and activities providers, and we provide all
Speaker 2: of the tooling they need to run their business, so
Speaker 2: online booking and payments, everything that you do on site
Speaker 2: as you're checking in all the way through to marketing,
Speaker 2: business analytics, collecting reviews.
Speaker 13: We really are that end to end backbone for everything
Speaker 13: that a business needs to operate, and that backbone is
Speaker 13: solidified by your M and A. So told to us
Speaker 13: a little bit what ACME brings to the equation or
Speaker 13: connecting GO.
Speaker 2: How are they fueling the growth?
Speaker 13: Absolutely, so you know what we saw off the last
Speaker 13: couple of years. We really got to know these businesses
Speaker 13: and they've done incredible jobs in working for very specific
Speaker 13: verticals and so as an example, you know, ACME has
Speaker 13: built incredible infrastructure and ticketing for museums and iconic cultural attractions.
Speaker 13: Think about that is here in New York, things like
Speaker 13: the MoMA, the Whitney Museum, the Fret Collection. So that
Speaker 13: includes memberships and donation management, and so they've done a
Speaker 13: fantastic job there. That's something that we can incorporate into
Speaker 13: everything that we're doing at peak and Connecting GO really
Speaker 13: double down on theme paks, on water parks, and so
Speaker 13: that means that RFID technology that you've probably used when
Speaker 13: you've taken.
Speaker 2: Your kids in a water partners we can for my sins exactly,
Speaker 2: so you've used that.
Speaker 13: So they've done a great job on that technology, alongside
Speaker 13: a lot of things around online sorry online and on
Speaker 13: site guest services, things like F and B and so,
Speaker 13: you know, bringing these three companies together, we get a
Speaker 13: huge advantage by being able to have a lot of
Speaker 13: synergies as well as being able to you know, take
Speaker 13: all of the best features and cross pollinate them across
Speaker 13: the platforms. And the last piece, obviously, is just that
Speaker 13: we've been real innovators on the AI side, and so
Speaker 13: we're now in a position to take all of the
Speaker 13: things that we've learned and take them across.
Speaker 2: The So what sort of innovations in AI really?
Speaker 13: You know, last year we went and pulled our businesses
Speaker 13: and over eighty percent of them said we know, we
Speaker 13: really want to use AI, but only ten percent word
Speaker 13: using AI, and so it became very clear that for
Speaker 13: us to be able to assist those merchants, we actually
Speaker 13: needed to integrate AI tooling into our platform. So examples
Speaker 13: of that have been first on revenue growth, which is
Speaker 13: obviously incredibly important to businesses. We created AI Dynamic pricing tools,
Speaker 13: so that means we're incorporating things like weather or seasonality
Speaker 13: or frankly local demand. You know, think Taylor Swift is
Speaker 13: coming to town. And what we were able to do
Speaker 13: with that was layer that into the pricing for the
Speaker 13: businesses to increase revenues by about five to twenty percent,
Speaker 13: so massive impact on revenue growth. Another area that we've
Speaker 13: really done a lat on AI has been around automating operations.
Speaker 13: As you can imagine the businesses we work with, they
Speaker 13: have a lot of manual, you know, back end operational tasks.
Speaker 13: You know, Bryant Park ice skating here in New York
Speaker 13: very popular this time of year. They have lots of
Speaker 13: people trying to reschedule, so they're spending thousands of hours
Speaker 13: on you know, these manual tasks. So we were able
Speaker 13: to automate all of that work and in doing so
Speaker 13: save them, you know, thousands of hours of time as
Speaker 13: well as millions in costs. And I think the last
Speaker 13: thing has really just been that there's a shifting consumer
Speaker 13: demand landscape. We all know that over the last few years,
Speaker 13: people have been moving towards things like TikTok for the
Speaker 13: video content. You know, over half of consumers say that
Speaker 13: they're inspired to book experiences based on what influencers think,
Speaker 13: and yet the businesses we partnered with didn't have a
Speaker 13: way to be able to meet that demand. And so,
Speaker 13: you know, we created influencer marketing tools. With a click
Speaker 13: of a button, they were able to reach hundreds of
Speaker 13: thousands of potential travelers. And so in doing that, what
Speaker 13: we're really allowing our operators to do is focus on
Speaker 13: what they're really good at, which is delivering an incredible
Speaker 13: customer experience while taking care of what is a huge
Speaker 13: shift in the industry.
Speaker 2: But that shift comes with costly talent. You've just raised
Speaker 2: seventy million dollars. Is that what that's for is about
Speaker 2: beefing up your own tech talent to be able to
Speaker 2: bring more general to AI offerings to bear. Is it
Speaker 2: about more acquisitions? Where does that fund of get put
Speaker 2: to work?
Speaker 13: It's absolutely it's about us consolidating all of the all
Speaker 13: of the platforms as well as really layering in more AI.
Speaker 13: So think about you know, the things we've already done
Speaker 13: to automate operations. You know, we've now got hundreds of
Speaker 13: agents working behind the scenes twenty four to seven to
Speaker 13: do everything that the merchant needs. And so you know,
Speaker 13: what we're really doing is doubling down on innovation, and
Speaker 13: so that means tech talent, and it means also, you know,
Speaker 13: an opportunity for us to double down on sales. You know,
Speaker 13: one of the things that we've saw with the acquisitions
Speaker 13: is that although Acimmune Connecting Go have fantastic customers, they've
Speaker 13: actually done very little on the sales site. So we
Speaker 13: want to bring those tools to market. So, you know,
Speaker 13: AI plus sales allows us really to get our tools
Speaker 13: into the hands of many more businesses and.
Speaker 2: A few more experiences for all of us out there
Speaker 2: this Thanksgiving and holiday season. Raswanna Basher coming on talking
Speaker 2: about the M and A and the fundraiser peak. We
Speaker 2: appreciate it now, that does it. But this edition of
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Heck, do not forget to check out our podcast
Speaker 2: find on on the Terminal so well as on Oline,
Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart from New York. This is
Speaker 2: pretty bag tack.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.