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Speaker 2: welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume heavy Tuesday. Everybody.
Speaker 2: Hope all of you guys are having a great start
Speaker 2: to your week. Well, the Indiana Pacers, as expected, ended
Speaker 2: up going up three to one on the Knicks tonight.
Speaker 2: Kind of a wired and wired type of game. There's
Speaker 2: a brief mix.
Speaker 3: Push early, a little bit of a.
Speaker 2: Attempting push from the Knicks late, but the Pacers consistently
Speaker 2: demonstrated themselves to be the better team tonight, as they
Speaker 2: have for the majority of this series. We're gonna break
Speaker 2: that game down from the perspective of both teams. We're
Speaker 2: going to talk Jackson has a theory that he's higher
Speaker 2: on the Indiana Pacers and their chances against Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: than I am. So I thought that would make fun
Speaker 2: grounds for a debate, So we'll have a little debate
Speaker 2: in the middle section of the show as we talk
Speaker 2: about a potential NBA Finals matchup between the Pacers and
Speaker 2: the Thunder, and then at the tail end of the show,
Speaker 2: we'll take five to ten minutes of questions. Any big
Speaker 2: picture questions you guys have regarding either series, we can
Speaker 2: get to them at that point. And then when we
Speaker 2: wrap up here tonight, we'll be heading over to playback again.
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Speaker 2: keep dropping mail back questions in the chat so we
Speaker 2: can get to them at the tail end of the
Speaker 2: show tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball. So one
Speaker 2: of the things to credit the Nicks one of the
Speaker 2: things that they did at the end of Game three
Speaker 2: which I have not seen often in this postseason run,
Speaker 2: aside from Game three, ironically of the Cavs series, where
Speaker 2: Max Strews started. You know, he had been the Calves
Speaker 2: had been in intentionally denying Tyrese Haliburton throughout the series,
Speaker 2: but Strews just did a way better job of it
Speaker 2: in Game three, and it kind of just threw the
Speaker 2: the Pacers out of whack and they had a really
Speaker 2: weird night. But for the most part, there's like a
Speaker 2: pace and an energy and a flow to Indiana's offense
Speaker 2: that is pretty consistent. Like one of the biggest theories
Speaker 2: that I leaned on in terms of me picking Indiana
Speaker 2: to beat the Knicks, I wasn't sure necessarily which team
Speaker 2: had the higher ceiling, like when things were really going
Speaker 2: well for either team. It kind of felt coin flippy
Speaker 2: to me. But I just trusted the Pacers to more
Speaker 2: frequently be at their best than I trusted the knixt team,
Speaker 2: and that made it a relatively easy pick for me
Speaker 2: relative to some of the other more, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of confusing series that we've seen in this postseason run.
Speaker 2: But to the next credit. In Game three, in that
Speaker 2: fourth quarter, we saw a Pacers offense that didn't look
Speaker 2: like the Pacers offense, as the ball wasn't moving around there.
Speaker 2: They lacked that pace and flow in transition kind of
Speaker 2: turned into some iffy isolation possessions and it just kind
Speaker 2: of felt like they lost their character a little bit,
Speaker 2: and Tyre's Halliburton had zero interest in letting that phenomenon
Speaker 2: extend into the start of Game four, immediately coming out
Speaker 2: the gates, bringing that energy, bringing that flow. I thought
Speaker 2: stan Van Gundy had an interesting point in the broadcast
Speaker 2: talking about how the point guard is the guy that
Speaker 2: really pushes his team to run, not necessarily the coach. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with that assertion, because we've seen
Speaker 2: coaches make teams run more. I mean, frankly this year,
Speaker 2: just Kenny Atkinson and what he did with the Cavs
Speaker 2: got them to run more than they did in years past.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's a combination of both. And
Speaker 2: I think the way I would kind of like tweak
Speaker 2: that take from stan Van Gundhy is I would say
Speaker 2: your point guard can supersede, or I would even say
Speaker 2: your point guard, you're superstar. Your foundational offensive folkrum can
Speaker 2: overcome any sort of coaching roster circumstance and get guys
Speaker 2: to run, and get guys to take on their identity
Speaker 2: as an offensive player. That's why over the years, we
Speaker 2: saw so many many different types of players thrive alongside
Speaker 2: Steph Curry, so many different types of players like we've
Speaker 2: seen now in recent years, guys like guys that weren't
Speaker 2: on older versions of the Nuggets. Guys like Peyton Watson,
Speaker 2: guys like Christian Brown, guys like Russell Westbrook that have
Speaker 2: thrived with him and with Lebron James. Just every single
Speaker 2: guy who can knock down to catch and shoot jump
Speaker 2: shot and is smart and knows how to be in
Speaker 2: the right place. They those guys just seem to fit
Speaker 2: with Lebron and do it well. I think that you
Speaker 2: can have an offensive folkrum that can kind of inject
Speaker 2: life into an offense irrespective of your coach. And I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, Tyrs Haliburton in many ways is the identity
Speaker 2: of this Pacers team. And even going back to some
Speaker 2: of the stretches in last year's postseason when they looked bad,
Speaker 2: a lot of it had to center around Halliburton kind
Speaker 2: of just going passive for various reasons, whether it was
Speaker 2: you know, obviously he wasn't the same athlete last year
Speaker 2: that he was this year because of his hamstring injury.
Speaker 2: But similarly, the instances of bal denial that we've that
Speaker 2: have taken him in his kind of like flow out
Speaker 2: of games and how it can impact the Pacers. But
Speaker 2: at this phase of his career, he's far more consistently engaged.
Speaker 2: He's far more consistently bringing that you know, kind of
Speaker 2: like assertion on the offensive end, and those stretches have
Speaker 2: been few and far between. Like when we watched the
Speaker 2: Pacers at the end of Game three, that was weird.
Speaker 2: That was unusual for a team that has consistently been
Speaker 2: firing on all cylinders in this postseason run. Similarly, in
Speaker 2: that Cavs game, it's like, oh, that's really weird. Well,
Speaker 2: they came out in Game four and hung eighty points
Speaker 2: in the first half. So there's just like a relentless
Speaker 2: kind of identity to this basketball team. And I do
Speaker 2: think it stems from Halliburton. I do think he's the
Speaker 2: driving force. Generally speaking, these kinds of players. Speaking back
Speaker 2: to Tyrese Haliburton and his pushback against him being the
Speaker 2: most over overrated player in the league, I generally think
Speaker 2: that advantage creators are underrated in the NBA. Yes, I'm
Speaker 2: saying even guys like step even guys like Lebron, even
Speaker 2: guys like the outside of their fan bases, there's a
Speaker 2: reason why those fan bases scream about it all the time.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why why Denver fans are constantly trying
Speaker 2: to tell you about Jokic and what he does. There's
Speaker 2: a reason why Steph fans are doing that with Steph.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why Lebron fans are doing that with Lebron.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why Luca fans are doing that with Luca. Because,
Speaker 2: flat out, when you have an offensive player that can
Speaker 2: create advantages, putting your role players in a situation where
Speaker 2: instead of facing a set defender, they have someone sprinting
Speaker 2: at them, or they're operating in an opening, every player
Speaker 2: in the NBA becomes like four times as good as
Speaker 2: they are when they don't get to operate within an advantage.
Speaker 2: It is arguably the most important trait that any basketball
Speaker 2: player can bring to the table. It is why I
Speaker 2: have always been drawn to offensive engines more than I've
Speaker 2: been drawn to like kind of the stereotypical two way
Speaker 2: score type of player. The type of player that can
Speaker 2: consistently set his teammates up with advantages is going to
Speaker 2: make life easier in every phase of the game. And
Speaker 2: Tyres is just one of the best at it. Even
Speaker 2: when we looked at the down the stretch part of
Speaker 2: this game, like there's a when the Knicks made that
Speaker 2: run and they cut it down to I think they
Speaker 2: got it down as close as five if I remember correctly.
Speaker 2: Before Siakam hits a three in the right corner is
Speaker 2: like four or five points something like that. All it
Speaker 2: is is like Haliburton brings the ball to the floor
Speaker 2: with's pace, Nemhard comes into a guard guard screen, slips
Speaker 2: out of it, and two people linger on the ball
Speaker 2: on Haliburton for just a split second. Haliburton just pitches
Speaker 2: it over the top, and when Nemhard catches it, the
Speaker 2: guy closing out on him is closing out behind his
Speaker 2: right shoulder, and so he's like, oh shit, I got
Speaker 2: a driving lane, and so he just goes down into
Speaker 2: the lane. And as he's going down in the lane, oh,
Speaker 2: Janodobi has no choice but to step over. He's the
Speaker 2: low man. So he's the guy that has to step
Speaker 2: over and be in help easy extra pass to Passcalciakam
Speaker 2: in the right corner knocks down the three. That ends
Speaker 2: up being a monstrously important shot in this game. Zero
Speaker 2: mention of that in the box score. That's a Nemhard
Speaker 2: assist and a Siakam catches shoot three. There is no
Speaker 2: mention of that in the box score or for Tyre's
Speaker 2: Halliburton advantage creators are vastly underrated because if you look
Speaker 2: at the box score, it's not going to account for
Speaker 2: the simple fact that they lean the defense towards them
Speaker 2: and various and each player has done it in a
Speaker 2: different way. Haliburton does it different than Yoki jokicch does
Speaker 2: it different than step Steph does it different than Luca
Speaker 2: or Lebron in the past. These guys all do it
Speaker 2: in different ways, but it more or less manifests an
Speaker 2: advantage creation. The Tyres Haliburton layup that he had down
Speaker 2: the stretch right after the Siakam three, they just ran
Speaker 2: a guard guard screen and the guard lingered too long
Speaker 2: and it blew the play up and led to a
Speaker 2: wide open three for Siakam. So what happens on the
Speaker 2: very next guard guard screen. Brunson throws a half hearted
Speaker 2: hedge because he's hesitant to leave his shooter, and Haliburton
Speaker 2: just turns the corner. What's the advantage there? The advantage
Speaker 2: is the guy who's guarding him has to get through
Speaker 2: a screen with no help, and he's just he's gonna
Speaker 2: have a hard time keeping in front of a fast
Speaker 2: guard like Tyres Haliburton like that, but that is a
Speaker 2: reward for the fact that Tyres Halliburton's so religiously makes
Speaker 2: those reads over and over and over again, and it
Speaker 2: kind of manifests the identity of this roster. Even the
Speaker 2: Miles Turner foul where he draws the foul late wasn't
Speaker 2: even a Haliburton action, it was an Aram Nemhart action.
Speaker 2: But they he comes off the screen, Karl Anthony Towns
Speaker 2: has to step up to contest. As a result, Miles
Speaker 2: Turner is diving to the basket with McHale Bridges trying
Speaker 2: to box him out, and so even though Siakam doesn't
Speaker 2: get the rebound, he just kind of taps at it.
Speaker 2: It leaves a situation where all of a sudden, this
Speaker 2: skinny six seven dude is trying to deal with the
Speaker 2: starting center for the Indiana Pacers and he's just going
Speaker 2: to go get an offensive rebound. Advantage creation is a
Speaker 2: thing that doesn't manifest in the box score in that case,
Speaker 2: androw Nemhart coming off of a screen that doesn't show
Speaker 2: as an assist if it shows as a missed field
Speaker 2: goal like is a negative thing on his box score.
Speaker 2: But because he came off of that action with pace,
Speaker 2: because he set his man up for the screen and
Speaker 2: got separation, he was able to force a switch that
Speaker 2: led to a different kind of advantage. Miles Turner inside
Speaker 2: poss against a skinny small McKale bridges Key playing the game,
Speaker 2: he gets to the foul line. Advantage creation is underrated,
Speaker 2: and I think we don't talk about it nearly enough.
Speaker 2: And there's a reason why. That type of player is
Speaker 2: the type of player that I find myself gravitating towards.
Speaker 2: And with Tyris Haliburton, you know, like he's kind of
Speaker 2: another one of those guys similar to Jason Tatum, where
Speaker 2: like there's kind of two versions of him on any
Speaker 2: given night, there's like the star version of him, and
Speaker 2: then there's like the superstar version of him. And similarly
Speaker 2: with Tatum, the superstar version of Tyres Haliburton comes from
Speaker 2: when the jump shot is going in, when he's being
Speaker 2: aggressive as a scorer. He impacts the game at a
Speaker 2: level as high as the very best players in the NBA.
Speaker 2: Now his floor is high. His advantage creation is such
Speaker 2: a valuable tool that he can be the eighth or
Speaker 2: ninth best player in the league averaging eighteen points and
Speaker 2: nine assists. Right, that's a pretty innocuous box score. Now again,
Speaker 2: that box score is underrating the impact that he brings.
Speaker 2: But that is still a star level player with a
Speaker 2: stat line more in line with what you see from
Speaker 2: the forty to forty fifth best player in the league. Right,
Speaker 2: that's the advantage creation piece. That's the floor for Tyres Haliburton.
Speaker 2: When he brings the shooting, when he's knocking down those
Speaker 2: threes coming off of ball screens, when he's knocking down
Speaker 2: those mid range pull ups coming off of ball screens,
Speaker 2: when he's taking Miles Turner er, excuse me, when he's
Speaker 2: taking Karl Anthony Towns or Mitchell Robinson out on a
Speaker 2: switch and hitting a three in their face, or Jalen
Speaker 2: Brunson and hitting a three in his face that switch beating.
Speaker 2: That is the top end of him as a score.
Speaker 2: And when he does all of that stuff, they react
Speaker 2: to his shooting, which gets him the driving lanes. That's
Speaker 2: when he starts getting into the basket and he's actually
Speaker 2: like a pretty good downhill athlete. Him and TJ. McConnell
Speaker 2: kind of remind me of each other in that sense
Speaker 2: where they are just constantly playing downhill. And so even
Speaker 2: though they may not be the first step athletes that
Speaker 2: you see like Anthony Edwards, they are athletes that generate
Speaker 2: advantage with pace moving all the time, and they capitalize
Speaker 2: on the defense letting go of the rope in that
Speaker 2: perpetual motion that they bring to the table. But awesome
Speaker 2: night from Tyree Saliburton just just one of those iconic
Speaker 2: performances in his career. Thirty two points, twelve rebounds, fifteen assists.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing, doesn't turn the dam basketball over.
Speaker 2: He's less than two turnovers per game in this entire
Speaker 2: postseason run. I think he has twenty seven turnovers in
Speaker 2: fourteen games. Like that is not only is that going
Speaker 2: to be vitally important for a potential Oklahoma City Thunder series,
Speaker 2: which we're about to debate with Jackson here in a
Speaker 2: few minutes, that is just preposterous considering the usage, the
Speaker 2: types of difficult passes that he's making. There's like these
Speaker 2: jump passes, these double pump passes. He had this pass
Speaker 2: where he got caught in between reads and like at
Speaker 2: the last second, like he looked at Miles Turner on
Speaker 2: a roll, decided not to pass to him, looked over
Speaker 2: to the side, then looked back to Turner and like
Speaker 2: floated a perfect pass against a three quarter front that
Speaker 2: just barely got over the defender's fingertips and just fed
Speaker 2: Miles Turner in or a layup, and it was like
Speaker 2: all while he was in mid air, it was just
Speaker 2: an unbelievable pass. Like the kinds of difficult skip passes,
Speaker 2: swing passes, the kinds of off the dribble passes that
Speaker 2: he throws to not turn the basketball over is truly remarkable.
Speaker 2: And you know, if you if you haven't been exposed
Speaker 2: to Tyres Halliburton and what he's capable of, and I
Speaker 2: don't know how you wouldn't be. He's hit what two
Speaker 2: or three game winners in this postseason or you know
Speaker 2: the obviously the Knicks game wasn't a game winner, but
Speaker 2: a shot that effectively put them in position to win
Speaker 2: the game. He's been between the nd season tournament run
Speaker 2: that he had last year, even the conference finals run
Speaker 2: last year, which didn't really showcase his high end scoring
Speaker 2: as often as it could have been, but it showcase
Speaker 2: a lot of what his playmaking talent is. This is
Speaker 2: this was a crash course for anybody who hasn't really
Speaker 2: been around the pacers to understand just how gifted a
Speaker 2: ceiling Tyrese Haliburton has. Aaron Ei Smith, I want to
Speaker 2: talk about a couple other pacers and Den we'll talk
Speaker 2: a little bit big picture on the series and then
Speaker 2: we'll get to Jackson in our NBA Finals preview, so
Speaker 2: I thought, aaron Ne Smith, you know, this is the
Speaker 2: wear and tear impact that he brings to the table
Speaker 2: with his ball pressure. There have been stretches in this
Speaker 2: series where Brunson has scored on him and made it
Speaker 2: look easy, right. There are even a couple possessions tonight
Speaker 2: where he scored on him and made it look easy.
Speaker 2: But he's a big, strong, physical point of attack defender
Speaker 2: that never stops coming at you, never stops picking me
Speaker 2: up full court, never start like you know, we've talked
Speaker 2: a lot about body angles with respect to Jada McDaniels
Speaker 2: and the Shae Gilds Alexander matchup, and kind of like
Speaker 2: opening up his stance and like creating these easy driving lanes.
Speaker 2: You watched Nee Smith. He is squared up with punts
Speaker 2: in every time. He's like, you're not gonna get an
Speaker 2: easy drive. You're going to have to shake me. You're
Speaker 2: gonna have to get way off to that. You're gonna
Speaker 2: have to go way around me, or you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to break me down with the move because I'm squared
Speaker 2: up and I'm right in your chest and I'm right
Speaker 2: in your face the entire time, flying over screens and
Speaker 2: refusing to give up those switches. In that fourth quarter,
Speaker 2: Brunson was like a non factor offensively as they leaned
Speaker 2: on those crazy running catch and shoot Michale Bridges threes,
Speaker 2: which haven't gone in all postseason outside of a handful
Speaker 2: of times. I don't understand why that was such a
Speaker 2: high volume option for the Nick Slate, Like there was
Speaker 2: a lack of assertion, a lack of aggression from Brunson
Speaker 2: that I would credit Aaron Ee Smith with. I think
Speaker 2: he worked. I think he's Warren Brunson down over the
Speaker 2: course of the series, and for the first time in
Speaker 2: this entire postseason, to my recollection, we had a crunch
Speaker 2: time period where Jalen Brunson was a non factor or
Speaker 2: at least not a factor in a good way, and
Speaker 2: so I just wanted to credit Aeronie Smith for his defense.
Speaker 2: Ben Matherin. We've talked about Ben Matherin a lot over
Speaker 2: the course of this postseason run as being one of
Speaker 2: the more high volume scorers for Indiana relative to the
Speaker 2: minutes that he plays, and he's had a rough series,
Speaker 2: but like one of the things I talked about before
Speaker 2: the series is like he doesn't put up, you know,
Speaker 2: massive box score numbers per se, but on a per
Speaker 2: minute basis. Coming into the series, he was the highest
Speaker 2: score for the Pacers per thirty six coming into the
Speaker 2: to the Eastern Conference Finals in just twelve minutes of
Speaker 2: play tonight, twenty points. With his downhill athleticism as a slasher,
Speaker 2: as a cutter, as a transition threat, as an offensive
Speaker 2: rebounder crasher, there were offensive rebounds that he didn't even
Speaker 2: get but that he caused just by virtue of being
Speaker 2: a wrecking ball flying downhill into the lane. He was
Speaker 2: profoundly impactful in this game and probably was a little
Speaker 2: bit of a palate cleanser for him after what was
Speaker 2: a rough series up to this point. The Knicks have
Speaker 2: the ability to play well in this matchup. I was
Speaker 2: thinking about it during that first half run when they
Speaker 2: rotate and they keep Indiana in front, and they chase
Speaker 2: him off the three point line and they force him
Speaker 2: to play one on one. More often than not, they
Speaker 2: can have moments where they control the series because Brunson
Speaker 2: and Kat are like better one on one players. They're
Speaker 2: they're they're better at just like breaking down the defense
Speaker 2: when the defense is rotated and loaded up right, like
Speaker 2: when they when they when there isn't that easy opening,
Speaker 2: And so you'll see these stretches where it's like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: the Knicks got three four stops in a row, and
Speaker 2: it's like two brunts and floaters and a cat driving
Speaker 2: and one and or a draws a double team that
Speaker 2: gets swung around, and all of a sudden, you're like, man,
Speaker 2: the Knicks are moving a little bit. But again, they
Speaker 2: just cannot sustain that at any point in this series,
Speaker 2: not in any real way. It's like they'll have these
Speaker 2: quarters and bursts. And by the way, that's what it
Speaker 2: was like in the Celtics series. It was like short
Speaker 2: bursts of greatness that put them over the top. Same
Speaker 2: thing in the Pistons series. There were two games in
Speaker 2: that series where the Pistons had control in the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter and lost it because of a Knicks burst like
Speaker 2: they're they're burst their ceiling. As I mentioned at off
Speaker 2: the top of the show, you could argue the Knicks
Speaker 2: ceiling is every bit as high as the Pacers, maybe
Speaker 2: even higher depending on who you ask, right, but like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you can't sustain, and the Indiana
Speaker 2: Pacers play like the Pacers far more than the Knicks
Speaker 2: play like the best version of themselves way too often tonight,
Speaker 2: just not picking up the ball in transition, giving up
Speaker 2: an easy swing pass and transition for a three bad
Speaker 2: floor balance leading to a leak out one on one
Speaker 2: opportunity where Shiacham's just just you know, laying one or
Speaker 2: two counter moves against the back pedaling defender and getting
Speaker 2: an easy layup or botching coverages. There was like a
Speaker 2: stretch at the beginning of the game where the Pacers
Speaker 2: just had to run a three man action of any kind,
Speaker 2: whether it was like a stack pick and roll or
Speaker 2: a wedge pick and roll or something along those lines,
Speaker 2: or double drag, and just like whatever they did, it
Speaker 2: just there was a dude wide open at the three
Speaker 2: point line, whether it was the ball handler because no
Speaker 2: one picked him up, or they switched the ball handler
Speaker 2: but left one of the screeners slipping, Like the attention
Speaker 2: to detail on defense all season long for the Knicks
Speaker 2: wasn't there, and when they needed it to be there
Speaker 2: for them in this postseason run, it wasn't there. And ultimately,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna win in the postseason at the highest level,
Speaker 2: you've got to be more disciplined in detail or and
Speaker 2: to defense. The Knicks worn't, and that's gonna be the
Speaker 2: thing that stands in the way this year. The series
Speaker 2: is over because the Knicks need to win three games
Speaker 2: in a row and the Pacers are just flatly a
Speaker 2: better basketball team, Like there's no there's no bit of
Speaker 2: information we've received at any point this season that would
Speaker 2: lead me to believe that the Knicks could sustain the
Speaker 2: level they need to sustain to beat the Pacers three
Speaker 2: times in a row. I'd only give them about a
Speaker 2: thirty percent chance to win Game five. That's a good chance.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised necessarily if the Knicks won in
Speaker 2: Game five. But the problem is, historically my experience, teams
Speaker 2: that seem to lack belief in their ability to actually win,
Speaker 2: like they don't actually think they can go on the
Speaker 2: road and win, then they'll end up punting because why
Speaker 2: and just emotionally mentally involuntarily punting it, not quitting, but
Speaker 2: just there's a natural like do we really want to
Speaker 2: like grind out this big game five so that we
Speaker 2: can go back to India and get or ass kicked.
Speaker 2: There's like a little bit of there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of that kind of natural oh man, like we can't
Speaker 2: actually beat these guys. I've seen it a few times
Speaker 2: in this postseason where you just see a team that
Speaker 2: just like they feel like they blew their chance to
Speaker 2: win the series. And yeah, they have their home game
Speaker 2: with a chance to extend the series, but what's the point,
Speaker 2: you know? So again, we're going to find out about
Speaker 2: the Knicks and their basketball character if they win in
Speaker 2: Game five, and it'll tell us a lot about whether
Speaker 2: or not they want to go home or if they
Speaker 2: want to, you know, go on vacation, if they want
Speaker 2: to go on vacation, or if they want to try
Speaker 2: to win this thing. And uh, and I give them
Speaker 2: certainly a chance. But I my guess right now is
Speaker 2: that the Pacers close this out in five. I think
Speaker 2: the Knicks have had their motivations app after what was
Speaker 2: a disappointing h end to this particular game.
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Speaker 2: All right, guys, we're gonna bring Jackson on. So what
Speaker 2: I would like to do here, because Jackson has put
Speaker 2: a great deal of thought into this, I want to
Speaker 2: just get Jackson's take. Basically, the idea is to set
Speaker 2: the stage. I have said on the show that I
Speaker 2: think the Thunder would beat up on the Pacers or
Speaker 2: the Knicks if they went to the finals. And we've
Speaker 2: had some discussion about it on the show centering around
Speaker 2: game plan, which I'm sure Jackson will mention, but I
Speaker 2: am like leaning towards OKC and five, maybe even four.
Speaker 2: So I want to give. I want to give Jackson
Speaker 2: a chance to make the case for why he thinks
Speaker 2: at least you're you're I'm guessing you're saying, at least
Speaker 2: you expect a longer, more competitive series.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think okay, se should be a substantial favorite,
Speaker 4: and I would pick them to win the series. I
Speaker 4: just think that the Patriots have a chance, have a
Speaker 4: build of a team and have some key attributes that
Speaker 4: make them potentially able to give the Thunder some problems
Speaker 4: to win a few games.
Speaker 3: And it mainly comes down to three things.
Speaker 4: One they They and Haliburton in general, as we've discussed
Speaker 4: a lot, do not turn the basketball over.
Speaker 3: They are bottom five.
Speaker 4: In the league and you know team turnovers on offensive
Speaker 4: turnovers and Halle you know fifteen assist no turnovers tonight
Speaker 4: is evidence of how lethal that can be, especially against
Speaker 4: a team like the Thunder that forces if the most
Speaker 4: turnovers in the league, play thrives in transition.
Speaker 3: As we've discussed.
Speaker 4: Second thing, the Pacers. I haven't seen a team in
Speaker 4: a while that are this committed to punishing smalls in
Speaker 4: switches with with with player who's not their best their
Speaker 4: lead guy. Right, most teams they get a switch. They
Speaker 4: want to take Brunston and have him go against whoever
Speaker 4: your worst defender is, Tatum, have him.
Speaker 3: Go against where They're like, no, we don't even care.
Speaker 4: We don't need Halle to iso kat. If we got Pascal,
Speaker 4: if Brunton is guarding passcal and to switch, we're going
Speaker 4: to give him.
Speaker 3: The ball over and over and over and over and over.
Speaker 4: They are so so committed to it, it's it's really
Speaker 4: it's really impressive. And the third thing is they this
Speaker 4: is sort of more of a game plan potentially specific
Speaker 4: things as we've discussed, depending on how Okac guards. The
Speaker 4: Pacers move the ball as well as any team this season,
Speaker 4: as well as any team I can remember in the
Speaker 4: last you know, since maybe the Warriors, they move that frickin'
Speaker 4: basketball and the Okac Thunder in their normal defense that
Speaker 4: they run that they haven't really changed to this point.
Speaker 3: Maybe they'll change against Indiana, but they haven't really changed much.
Speaker 4: They that's how you beat them is with is with
Speaker 4: a lot of passes, a lot of ball ball movement,
Speaker 4: getting your advantage and saying we want to we get
Speaker 4: our first advantage, Let's find the best possiblesh out that we.
Speaker 3: Can get out of that advantage.
Speaker 4: Now, if the Thunder change up their defensive game plan
Speaker 4: and say, just score as many points as you can
Speaker 4: Tyree Taliburton, that you know, changes the calculus a little bit.
Speaker 4: But it feels like the Pacers have offensively, at least theoretically,
Speaker 4: have some of the things that are required to beat
Speaker 4: a defense as good as the Thunders great breakdown.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that you hit on that is
Speaker 2: especially important is the way that the Pacers attack switches.
Speaker 2: It's different than what like Tatum and Brown were doing.
Speaker 2: They're not like, oh, we have this six foot tall
Speaker 2: guy in space, let me face him up from twenty
Speaker 2: four feet from the basket. It's like, it's no like
Speaker 2: Turner in particular, is like beating switches at the rim.
Speaker 2: Like at the rim, He's like, it's whether it's an
Speaker 2: offensive rebound or it's put a deep seal, it's at
Speaker 2: the rim. And then Siakam will occasionally go to like
Speaker 2: a right shoulder fader, a left shoulder fade, but he's
Speaker 2: attacking those mismatches very close to the rim, and that
Speaker 2: is going to be a key part there. Now, the
Speaker 2: let's go through some of the specifics. So the the
Speaker 2: passing the ball through Oklahoma City's defense. Part. This is
Speaker 2: where it gets fascinating because I actually do think there's
Speaker 2: a solid chance that Marked I trust Mark Dagenel as
Speaker 2: a very smart basketball coach to know that what Denver did,
Speaker 2: what Minnesota has done in terms of sagging and forcing
Speaker 2: Shaye to shoot over the top and to make passing
Speaker 2: reads is the best way. Uh it excuse me with
Speaker 2: the uh, with the with these other teams and how
Speaker 2: they have been really aggressive for it, aggressive against like Minnesota,
Speaker 2: like picking up ant full court, uh, making them pass
Speaker 2: against blitzes in ball pressure and Julius Randall getting double
Speaker 2: teamed on every post up like that worked against them.
Speaker 2: And I think he knows that Indiana is a better
Speaker 2: passing team that doesn't turn the basketball over. But I
Speaker 2: trust Dagonall to know that it may not be the
Speaker 2: best game plan. But I also wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 2: he tried it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if he was, like,
Speaker 2: let's just see if they shit their pants, you know, like,
Speaker 2: let's Halliburton's never played in the finals before. Let's give
Speaker 2: him lou Dort physical defense at the point of attack.
Speaker 2: Let's just see what happens, right, And I think the
Speaker 2: main key there is going to be if Indiana does
Speaker 2: have success against it, will he pivot quickly? Now to
Speaker 2: your point about having it be a longer series, Let's
Speaker 2: say that they come out in game one and it's
Speaker 2: four aggressive overhelp leaving week side skips open and the
Speaker 2: Pacers steel game one. Then there's a really good chance
Speaker 2: this goes six because then we're probably getting at least two,
Speaker 2: if not three, Indiana home games. And I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: shocked if they got one of those games, and now
Speaker 2: it's a six game series. So to your point, like
Speaker 2: that that I can see absolutely playing a role. My
Speaker 2: main contention is that if he does make the game
Speaker 2: plan change, so again you load up alongside Tyres, Haliburton
Speaker 2: is just rifling skip passes over the top. They're playing
Speaker 2: with an advantage. I do think with the double two.
Speaker 2: I do think with the post ups and the switch
Speaker 2: attacking with Turner and Siakam, I think that he'll double.
Speaker 2: I think that he'll double immediately, and I think it'll
Speaker 2: be a bigger challenge for Siakam and Turner to deal
Speaker 2: with those double teams than it is in some of
Speaker 2: these other matchups. I mean to put it simply, we've
Speaker 2: seen a lot of people, including Jokic kind of like
Speaker 2: fall apart. Jogs had a three game stretch where he
Speaker 2: was bad against Okay see, so like there's a certain
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of that there too. My main
Speaker 2: contention is that inevitably, I think this series devolves down
Speaker 2: to we're staying home regarding Haliburton one on one, were
Speaker 2: guarding actions two on two, three man actions, three on three,
Speaker 2: we're communicating through switches, We're switching everything. You try scoring
Speaker 2: on us one on one over and over again, and
Speaker 2: they're just not the team that's gonna make as many
Speaker 2: mistakes as the Knicks made. And that that's where I
Speaker 2: think it gets a little. It gets a little tricky.
Speaker 2: But to your point, all it takes is Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: bringing their base game plan, Halliburton passing through it, not
Speaker 2: turning the ball over uh Siakam, and Turner doing damage
Speaker 2: against switches. You steal a game in Oka see early
Speaker 2: in the series before the game plan shifts, then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you win a game in Indiana off
Speaker 2: the strength of your home crowd, and to your point,
Speaker 2: anything can happen so if it's let's say it's two
Speaker 2: to two going back to Oklahoma City, what if Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City shits their pants in a bunch of a bunch
Speaker 2: of big ways in the finals. That's a great point.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I mean, so what do you think,
Speaker 2: like what, let me just put it to you this way.
Speaker 2: If you had to guess how okay See guards and
Speaker 2: how quickly Mark Dagnall pivots, what would you expect to happen?
Speaker 4: I expect dort On Hollie to start both because he's
Speaker 4: the best on ball defender option as well as he's
Speaker 4: so strong that you think you if you're the thunder,
Speaker 4: you're talking yourself into. We can survive a Pascal switch
Speaker 4: on blue door if we feel like switching, we can
Speaker 4: survive that. So I think that's sort of like the
Speaker 4: big question right away is are they going to switch
Speaker 4: any of those pick and rolls with Siakam or anybody?
Speaker 4: And do they feel comfortable with any any of their
Speaker 4: sort of wing guard defenders in those switches.
Speaker 3: But it's going to be interesting to see. Okaysee has
Speaker 3: so many guys, they got so many defensive bodies.
Speaker 4: They ran a lineup at one point in the second
Speaker 4: half yesterday that I don't think they do that often.
Speaker 4: They do sometimes where they had Cason Wallace Russo and
Speaker 4: Dorton Mfloor at the same time, I'm like, what are
Speaker 4: you supposed to do as an offense when those three
Speaker 4: dudes are defending?
Speaker 3: You're one year two when you're three. It's like that
Speaker 3: is that is terrifying.
Speaker 4: So that and I do think the doubling is going
Speaker 4: to happen for sure once Pascal and Miles inevitably, you know,
Speaker 4: punish some of those switches and we will see. It'll
Speaker 4: be very interesting to see if Aarony Smith can stay hot,
Speaker 4: he's very streaky shooter, and if Andrew Nemahard can can
Speaker 4: stay as playoff Klay Thompson because I looked at the
Speaker 4: numbers the other day and he shoots something like thirty
Speaker 4: two percent from three in the regular season and over
Speaker 4: his career in the playoffs he's over fifty percent. So
Speaker 4: if he can keep hitting over fifty perent of their threes,
Speaker 4: like they got a shot for real or not even
Speaker 4: not a shot, but they got a shot to make
Speaker 4: it competitive.
Speaker 3: I think they got a chot to make competitive. If
Speaker 3: those guys.
Speaker 4: Can can be can can can be can knock down
Speaker 4: more shots than Cason Wallace lou Dort.
Speaker 2: One of the things we haven't even talked about yet
Speaker 2: that I think is worth mentioning. By the way, guys
Speaker 2: like my I have not done any prep yet for
Speaker 2: this potential series, so I haven't watched gone back to
Speaker 2: rewatch their regular season matchups. I could very well change
Speaker 2: my mind. My initial gut feeling was that the Timberwolves
Speaker 2: had beat Oklahoma City. I gave him a slight edge
Speaker 2: in my initial gut feeling. Then I went to watch
Speaker 2: the film and I was like, oh, like, I don't
Speaker 2: think they're gonna be able to get Julius Randall the
Speaker 2: ball in places where he can score. And I don't
Speaker 2: think they're going to be able to go to n
Speaker 2: Osriy on the block. So you know, maybe I changed
Speaker 2: my mind after seeing some stuff the Let's talk through
Speaker 2: the Pacers on defense in this matchup for a second.
Speaker 2: One of the things that I found interesting in the
Speaker 2: film of the Timberwolves Thunder series is Jada McDaniels has
Speaker 2: been awful on Shae, like straight up awful, Like this
Speaker 2: the second straight year where he's been like straight up
Speaker 2: non effective on ball against a Star in the conference finals. Now,
Speaker 2: my theory is is that it's matchup based in the
Speaker 2: sense that I think Luca is way too big and
Speaker 2: strong for him, and I think Shay is too fast
Speaker 2: for him. And so there's this other conversation to have,
Speaker 2: which is like our Wyery six to eight defensive wings
Speaker 2: just like not versatile enough to succeed in the postseason
Speaker 2: if you're.
Speaker 3: Not strong enough for one guy and you're not quick
Speaker 3: enough for another guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And like it's bad because, like I would argue,
Speaker 2: those two series have swung on Jada complete inability to
Speaker 2: make the Stars uncomfortable from the other team. But and
Speaker 2: then looking at the Pacers, it's probably gonna be Nie
Speaker 2: Smith and Nie Smith, like we talked about earlier, Jayden
Speaker 2: is we just we were talking about it in the show.
Speaker 2: Like Jayden's stances have been so frustrating for me watching
Speaker 2: on film as he's like conceding driving angles to Shay,
Speaker 2: and I think Nie Smith, if he can square them up,
Speaker 2: navigate screens well, keep him in front, force him to
Speaker 2: speed over the top shooter without them having to overdo
Speaker 2: the help. But like there were a lot of stretches
Speaker 2: Intonight's game where the rotation, like the defensive backside rotations
Speaker 2: for the Pacers are super impressive. Siakim had three or
Speaker 2: four crazy week side closeouts on og And Andobi where
Speaker 2: he chased him off the line like an Og hit
Speaker 2: a fucking crazy step back over him on one of them,
Speaker 2: but like his ability to help and then rotate there,
Speaker 2: you could see I could talk myself into the Pacers
Speaker 2: being an interesting defensive matchup for the Thunder because Turner
Speaker 2: can p the rim. Siakam's an excellent week sad rotational
Speaker 2: player like even Halliburton I think is underrated as kind
Speaker 2: of like a dude does his job on defense kind
Speaker 2: of guy. And then what if Neie Smith just slides
Speaker 2: his feet well and contains against Shay. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: ahead and say, Jackson, that you've convinced me I think
Speaker 2: that I think that the Pacers have a better chance
Speaker 2: to make it competitive against the Thunder.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Then I was giving them credit for that, said, I
Speaker 2: would still be really surprised if they won the series. Uh.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think you're right about the fact that
Speaker 2: the Pacers are just a really good team that you
Speaker 2: could argue just Indiana being in the right place all
Speaker 2: the time, as like a help and recover rotation team
Speaker 2: will inherently cause a bunch of twenty two year olds
Speaker 2: to suck in the finals one night.
Speaker 4: So this is the other thing I was gonna say
Speaker 4: that I forgot. It does feel like because OKAC is
Speaker 4: so smart and so fast, and they're so connected on
Speaker 4: both ends, and you really have to be well connected
Speaker 4: as a unit to beat them, which the Timberwolves are not.
Speaker 4: The Timberwolves are the farthest thing from well connected. They're
Speaker 4: very talented, but they got Julius Randa and Rudy Gobert.
Speaker 4: They're not gonna be well connected, right And so I
Speaker 4: think the Pacers are superly synergistically in flow right now,
Speaker 4: and that is gonna go a long way against a
Speaker 4: team as smart.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I think that. I think that
Speaker 2: that is the key there is like they're older, they're
Speaker 2: more experienced. They there's a version of this where they
Speaker 2: just do all the right things in two NBA Finals
Speaker 2: games and the twenty two year olds just kind of
Speaker 2: struggle in the moment. So there's a version of that too.
Speaker 2: And and to your point, like if they run and
Speaker 2: they move the ball, well, they're gonna get open threes,
Speaker 2: especially against Oklahoma City's based game plan. It's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to dive into the film. Obviously, we'll wait
Speaker 2: until both series actually finish before we do that, but
Speaker 2: that's gonna be. That's gonna be a really fascinating series.
Speaker 2: I'm super interested in it. But Jackson, thanks for taking
Speaker 2: the time to prep all of that. What do you
Speaker 2: say we just head over the game to a playback?
Speaker 2: Sound good to you? Cool? All right, guys, That's all
Speaker 2: we have for tonight is always been. Sincerely appreciate you
Speaker 2: guys for supporting us and supporting the show. I'm headed
Speaker 2: over to playback again. That's playback dot tv slash OOPS
Speaker 2: tonight will be taking callers, taking questions, stuff like that.
Speaker 2: As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and
Speaker 2: supporting the show. We will see you tomorrow night for
Speaker 2: Game five of the Thunder and the Timberwolves. What's up, guys?
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
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