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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about whether it is possible to fall in love at

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Speaker 1: first sight. Such a cliche, love it first sight. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: probably thinking, well, I know the answer and it is no.

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Speaker 1: But anecdotally, I think a lot of us have maybe

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Speaker 1: experienced something akin to love at first sight. Someone speaking

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Speaker 1: from story hour, I am speaking from experience. Well, I

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Speaker 1: distinctly remember the first time he is now he is

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Speaker 1: now an not in a relationship with me anymore, but

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Speaker 1: we do still carre each other about each other very deeply. Uh.

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Speaker 1: First time I saw one of my ex boyfriends. UM.

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Speaker 1: I remember being at a very crowded show and I

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Speaker 1: stood up and it was in a small a small venue,

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Speaker 1: and I stood up on a chair or something like that,

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Speaker 1: or a bench or something to get a better view.

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Speaker 1: And I looked across the room and I saw this man.

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Speaker 1: And I had never seen this man before, which was

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Speaker 1: odd because it was a group of people, a lot

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Speaker 1: of familiar faces, but I've never seen him before. He

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Speaker 1: was talking to people I knew, and I just remember

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Speaker 1: seeing him and thinking, he looks like no one else

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Speaker 1: I have ever seen before, And my isn't he just handsome?

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Speaker 1: I wish I knew him. I wish I knew him,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't talk to him that night, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just kind of chucked that little thought away and

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Speaker 1: then lo and behold, Um, he had seen me in

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Speaker 1: similar situations, saying who is that last? I've never seen

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Speaker 1: her before, Not that he talked like that at all. Um,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, then come to find out we meet each other.

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Speaker 1: We'd had these experiences, we had seen each other from Afar,

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Speaker 1: and you know, something ticked off and inside of our

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Speaker 1: little little fluttering hearts and we shared a beautiful romance

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Speaker 1: for a long time. And I would say, that's the

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Speaker 1: closest thing that I can think of to love it

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Speaker 1: first sight. Wow, that was the sweetest story. It's pretty sweet.

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Speaker 1: And that man was John Hamm. That man was John Hamm.

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Speaker 1: That was you know, it was a lifetime ago before

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Speaker 1: he got married and became Don Draper on mad Men. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, but if you've ever had a man like

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Speaker 1: Don Draper, say, well, I just saw her. It reminds

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Speaker 1: me the first time I met Kermit the Frog, he

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Speaker 1: thought you were totess hot. Yeah, um so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love it first sight. But the but then my question was, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, can we call that love it first sight

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Speaker 1: or is that just attraction it first sight? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but either way, you don't need much time at all

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Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I'd like to see that

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Speaker 1: person again. Yeah, that person rings my little bill. And

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Speaker 1: people are saying, you know, if we have varying definitions

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Speaker 1: of what ring that bell means, then you know, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's perfectly possible to fall in love at

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Speaker 1: first sight and surprise, surprise, who are we going to

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Speaker 1: mention first none? Helen Fisher, anthropologist, We're not gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about it too long ago. Helen Fisher says that three

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Speaker 1: minutes is all you need all the time you need

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Speaker 1: to know whether or not somebody's gonna stick around. It

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Speaker 1: makes kind of a good case for speed dating because

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Speaker 1: that's how long I think you talked to a person

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Speaker 1: on a speed date, and she's saying, yes, you just

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Speaker 1: need that three minutes to know whether this person will

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Speaker 1: be in your life for a long time or not,

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Speaker 1: because it's that kind of instant attraction chemistry you can

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Speaker 1: your bodies do. Saysn't a whole lot of characteristics and

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Speaker 1: qualities without even knowing it. In every minute, just when

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Speaker 1: you're making small talk, you are getting the clues that

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Speaker 1: will let you know whether this is a good person.

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Speaker 1: But you've got to remember that Helen Fisher trades a

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Speaker 1: lot of traces, a lot of our behavior back to

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Speaker 1: our evolutionary forefathers, when our motives were to have a baby,

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Speaker 1: a healthy baby who can continue on the race. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff is based on that idea

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Speaker 1: that we still subconsciously seek out good partners. So you

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Speaker 1: combine that or not. But according to her, our brains

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Speaker 1: have been rewired. So in that three minutes, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what we're on the lookout because it goes back to,

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Speaker 1: you know, producing a healthy child. But also the fact

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Speaker 1: that when you know, way back in evolutionary times, we

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Speaker 1: weren't living very long, so you kind of needed to

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Speaker 1: get busy pretty quick. Three minutes back then was like

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Speaker 1: a lifetime. Not really, but I mean that's what she's saying.

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Speaker 1: You don't have very long, you don't have like these

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Speaker 1: five years to date you've got, you know, the five

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Speaker 1: years should be spent having the child and raising it.

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Speaker 1: So you've only got three minutes. What can you suss

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Speaker 1: out in that three minutes that will let you know

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Speaker 1: if this person is good to father your child. Well,

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Speaker 1: some scholars think that we are building our brain is

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Speaker 1: building a love maps, a love map of all of

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Speaker 1: these different qualities. And I think that I think it'd

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Speaker 1: be interesting to kind of tick off a lot of

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Speaker 1: these physical attributes that might seem superficial to pay attention to,

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Speaker 1: but actually are pretty good indicators of someone's reproductive health

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Speaker 1: and whether or not they'd be a good genetic match

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Speaker 1: to you. For instance, heterosexual lady might check out a

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Speaker 1: man's chin Don Draper's jawline, for instance, and be uh,

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Speaker 1: see it as a sign of attractiveness because testosterone levels

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Speaker 1: influence the jawlines and chin development, and same for women

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Speaker 1: with the eyes. The shape the smallest shape of a

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Speaker 1: woman's eyes is determined by estrogen in her body, so

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Speaker 1: that's a sign of reproductive fitness to the gent Facial

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Speaker 1: symmetry symmetry is huge, We've heard and this is probably

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Speaker 1: no new news. The more symmetrical. Uh, people are the

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Speaker 1: more attractive. They're generally judged because it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: sign that your jeans are good. It's a sign that

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Speaker 1: your jeans, you know, split just right to make you

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Speaker 1: not deformed. Basically, waste to hip ratio the all the

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Speaker 1: old hour glass for the ladies. And this has to

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Speaker 1: do with uh, fat deposits. Yeah, where your fat as

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Speaker 1: deposit on your body determines your waist to hip ratio.

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Speaker 1: And those fat deposits are also influenced by your sex hormones.

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Speaker 1: So women with a waist to hip ratio of o

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Speaker 1: point seven basically meaning that you got a little waist

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Speaker 1: and larger hips, it's more desirable to men, whereas the

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Speaker 1: waist hip ratio and men is going to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit bigger because typically curvaceous men is not the ideal.

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Speaker 1: It's more of the you know, the broad shoulder and uh,

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Speaker 1: what else how do you describing this broad I just

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Speaker 1: get stuck off his shoulders, which again is another testosterone trait,

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Speaker 1: so that that's why you're getting stuck on them, Christen,

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Speaker 1: it's evolution. Yeah, and they you know, they did um

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Speaker 1: studies that should like every Miss America you know, since

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Speaker 1: time began has had the point seven waste to hip ratio.

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Speaker 1: So these, even though you don't walk around going her

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Speaker 1: waste to hip ratio sucks. These are what they call

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Speaker 1: the universal ideals of beauty. They go into every culture

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Speaker 1: and show pictures of people to you know, test subjects,

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Speaker 1: and by and large, these are the things people find

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Speaker 1: attractive because scholars think it's linked to reproductive fitness, because

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Speaker 1: you know what good hips, big hips are for bigger hips,

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Speaker 1: birth and babies. So so that's why you know, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to walk around thinking that it's your hips

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Speaker 1: that although hips don't lie, so um, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to walk around thinking that these evolutionary ideas of good

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Speaker 1: baby making hips are what people are attracted to. But

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Speaker 1: your brain can't help but go there. Now, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the idea of pheromones, because these are brought up

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Speaker 1: a lot in uh Frids. Me of the anchorman or

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Speaker 1: one of the characters, the Paula Red character has that

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Speaker 1: pheromone um panther cologne hilarious. But this this idea that

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Speaker 1: we can subconsciously smell a good partner. And while um,

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Speaker 1: humans don't really admit and detect actual pheromones in that sense.

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Speaker 1: Very controversial idea, whether we do or not, right, but

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Speaker 1: we can. There is a there is an idea that

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Speaker 1: we are sort of sniffing out jeans. And there's a

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Speaker 1: study of very famous study that we've mentioned probably more

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Speaker 1: than once on the podcast about sweaty undershirts. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They did a kind of blindfold of tests where women

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Speaker 1: smelled men's sweaty undershirts and rated their attractiveness. And the

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Speaker 1: men who were the most genetically dissimilar to them, which

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Speaker 1: is a good thing. You don't want someone who has

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Speaker 1: the same genes as you because that would be your brother. Hence,

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Speaker 1: incest um, the ones with the most genetic diversity, we're

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Speaker 1: the most attractive. Yeah. So there's some thought that we

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Speaker 1: can sniff out signals from other people. And we talked

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Speaker 1: about this with the do gall pal sinc their menstrual cycles.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was some evidence or suggestion that you

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Speaker 1: can sniff out when it's a good time to have

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Speaker 1: a baby based on when your lady friends are having

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Speaker 1: their periods. And so they're saying that, you know it,

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Speaker 1: maybe not, maybe it's not love of first sight, it's

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Speaker 1: love it first sniff, right, just the idea that even

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Speaker 1: without seeing someone, even without all those visual visual clues,

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Speaker 1: are bodies are still equipped to signal which may or

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Speaker 1: may not be a good mate, force a reproductive mate.

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Speaker 1: It's all about this all goes back to very reproductive

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Speaker 1: oriented meeting. Because love is a fairly new concept, as

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Speaker 1: we've talked about before, right because you did have to mate,

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Speaker 1: you had to have a kid. You couldn't be you

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Speaker 1: couldn't be perfectly in love with this person. They couldn't

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Speaker 1: met they couldn't meet all the qualities on your laundry list.

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Speaker 1: But they're saying, you know, if we have built up

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Speaker 1: our love maps now in this modern age where being

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Speaker 1: include things like, you know, sense of humor and um,

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Speaker 1: what else could be on a laundry list? Well educated

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Speaker 1: Tennis puts the toilet seatback down. Yes, So while we

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Speaker 1: have these things on our love map, they're staying that

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Speaker 1: under those you know traits, we've got these evolutionary signals

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Speaker 1: there too. And in that first meeting, that three minute meeting,

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Speaker 1: your brain, without you knowing it, it's just running through

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Speaker 1: the love map, checking off which ones this guy seems

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Speaker 1: to meet, and you're using all sorts of clues, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, well educated, Kristen. Let's say you meet a

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Speaker 1: guy and he's wearing a stethoscope and scrubs. Right away,

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Speaker 1: your brain probably assumes method Zach Braff educated and and

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Speaker 1: you loved Garden States, so your brain remembers that. And

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Speaker 1: uh you like the shin so that's cool, um nineties jokes.

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Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, your brain is doing all this really fast.

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Speaker 1: If you dated a doctor before and it didn't go well,

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Speaker 1: when you see another doctor, when you go from Zach

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Speaker 1: Braff to George Cline and as e er days, your

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Speaker 1: brain is like, whoa, that last doctor didn't work for

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Speaker 1: us too well. But then my brain will go, well,

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Speaker 1: it was Zach Braf, So give Clooney a chance. But Zacra,

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about something though called assortative mating. Because we

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about dissimilarities genetics wise, but scholars also

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Speaker 1: think that we tend to gravitate towards people who are

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways just like us. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: this is something referred to as a sortative mating, right,

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Speaker 1: and so in that you know, first, hi, how are you? Yes,

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Speaker 1: you're even just sessing out their voice. Your brains going

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Speaker 1: through things on their voice. But let's say they start

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Speaker 1: talking about, um, Shakespeare and oh my gosh, you've happened

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Speaker 1: to love Shakespeare, me too, and yeah, and you guys

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Speaker 1: both like pizza I love Do you like pepperoni as well? Pepperoni? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love movies too. So these facts that you have things,

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Speaker 1: these these small things that are in common. You know,

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Speaker 1: anyone in a relationship knows that those small things sometimes

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Speaker 1: really make a huge difference because you start having pizza

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Speaker 1: and Shakespeare. One slice of pizza could lead to the

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Speaker 1: whole pie. That is a card waiting to happen. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna sell um. So yeah, just these really small stupid

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Speaker 1: things that you sense, uh, you know, someone like you

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Speaker 1: and that is attractive to us. And you know what

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Speaker 1: also helps what ovulation. If you're you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: Filipian tubes or are shooting a shoe little egg down there,

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Speaker 1: your chances of seeing a dude will strike your fancy

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Speaker 1: way higher again because it beat draw on to you

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Speaker 1: because of the need to mate, even if you don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily want to kid at that that moment. We talked

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Speaker 1: about that on the uh, you know, subliminal signs of

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Speaker 1: ovulation and the ways women and men are attracted to

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Speaker 1: each other during that time of the month. Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of weird that all these factors have to

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Speaker 1: be in line, which is why, you know, maybe love

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Speaker 1: at first sight seems so rare because how often is

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Speaker 1: it that you see a perfect genetic specimen who's not

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Speaker 1: too similar, who is meeting all your love map qualifications

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Speaker 1: while you're ovulating, and that's really hard to do well,

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Speaker 1: and and they have to look back at you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this was one of the most interesting concepts with his

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Speaker 1: whole love of first sight thing is that we think

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Speaker 1: a lot about we'd like to frame it as this

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Speaker 1: quest for the other, whereas when it really comes down

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Speaker 1: to it, it's kind of a quest for It's a

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Speaker 1: more narcissistic quest for validation of yourself because you know,

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Speaker 1: to take your story, Kristen, both of you saw each other, right,

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Speaker 1: he saw you, you saw him, and we but we

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Speaker 1: weren't looking back at each other either time. Okay, Well, see,

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Speaker 1: now let's say you've had locked eyes. The chances that

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Speaker 1: you would have talked that night probably go up like

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Speaker 1: a thousand percent. Certainly, you know, if he had looked

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Speaker 1: and see me, I was looking at him, become cross

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Speaker 1: through that sees people he might have because that's what

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Speaker 1: one researcher said was that what we are most attracted

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Speaker 1: to is someone who was attracted to us. And so

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Speaker 1: if you know, if that fellow had seen you looking back,

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Speaker 1: he would have had that sort of you know, nudge

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Speaker 1: of um, you know, a self esteem boost like yeah

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Speaker 1: she does like me, she check, maybe she's interested, Maybe

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Speaker 1: I've got a shot. Body language starts playing a factor

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Speaker 1: you could have been, you know, sending the eyes to

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Speaker 1: each other, the crazy love eyes, and it might just

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Speaker 1: look like crazy eyes when I said them, well yeah

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Speaker 1: that's a common problem. Um, but yeah, they're saying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that most important factor is someone who's going

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Speaker 1: to look back at you and um, you know, reaffirm

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Speaker 1: all the things you find attractive about yourself. So if

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Speaker 1: you do find someone attractive, they say, that's when you

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Speaker 1: got to start playing that old body language game like hey,

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Speaker 1: come over here. And there's also, um, this idea of

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Speaker 1: an attractiveness halo too. If you see someone you know,

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Speaker 1: if Molly, I'm sure if you if you ran too

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Speaker 1: John Ham and he was like, Molly, I love your podcast,

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Speaker 1: you would be sold because we will also if we

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Speaker 1: find someone physically attractive without knowing much about them at all,

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Speaker 1: we will fill in the blanks of their characteristics and

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Speaker 1: just kind of assume that they are gonna match us

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Speaker 1: personality wise. Yeah, and so that I think that's where

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Speaker 1: you get start get into the situation of is that

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Speaker 1: love or is it something else? Because we think that

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Speaker 1: love can be based on knowing someone completely and everything

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Speaker 1: minus that halo. But you know what, here's another hallmark

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Speaker 1: card for you. You can't put a time limit on love.

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Speaker 1: You can't put a time on it on love or

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Speaker 1: you know, we also have to remember the social constructs

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Speaker 1: of you know, love and relationships and dating and what

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Speaker 1: we're told is and isn't this or that? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean we're told we have to date someone for you know,

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Speaker 1: a set number of dates before we could say I

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Speaker 1: love you. You know, if your brain knows, your brain knows,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of neuroscience has been done on this

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Speaker 1: to say that, uh, you know. Helen Fisher gave this

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Speaker 1: three minutes. One nerve scientists gave a point two seconds

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Speaker 1: what she said, that's how long it takes for those

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Speaker 1: love hormones to flood your brain when you see someone

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Speaker 1: that's barely a glance, how could you even know what

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Speaker 1: they look like for point two seconds? You know that

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Speaker 1: brain works fast. I went through your love map like that.

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Speaker 1: You saw a good match, and your brain is already

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Speaker 1: feeling all the chemical rush of hormones and it is

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Speaker 1: being rewired for love. So you know, we have to

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Speaker 1: kind of let go. I think of uh that that

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Speaker 1: uh certain date rule before you can feel love. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it seems if the science holds up, you can feel love.

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Speaker 1: And it's such as a as a statistics and neuroscience

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Speaker 1: nut as I can be needing, needing facts to be provable.

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Speaker 1: I will say the fact that the moment, the split second,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many seconds it was of just

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Speaker 1: seeing that person is such a clear memory in my

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Speaker 1: in my brain, so clear. I mean I remember everything

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Speaker 1: about it, exactly where it was, um and what he

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Speaker 1: was wearing, all of it. That something happened, you know,

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Speaker 1: it makes me. It makes me I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I believe a hunter percent, but well, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that it did turn into a relationship. I think, um

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Speaker 1: that love at first sight can be a backward looking phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if nothing had happened, you would have been like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that was a cool moment but then but I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have remembered it. Yeah, but the fact that you actually

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Speaker 1: got together afterward it made a nice part to your

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Speaker 1: love story, like, oh, you know, here's how I met

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Speaker 1: And by the way, we both knew as soon as

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Speaker 1: we saw each other something was going on. And whereas

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Speaker 1: you know, if let's say a relationship and it really badly,

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Speaker 1: people who might be telling that story later would probably

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Speaker 1: forget that part about the lot of first sight. So

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Speaker 1: it's something that kind of can stand there while you

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Speaker 1: are in a relationship with that person. I think. So

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Speaker 1: we want to know what you all think out there,

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Speaker 1: is love at first sight possible? Has it happened to you?

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Speaker 1: Send your gushy stories our way mom stuff at house

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Speaker 1: steff works dot com, And in the meantime it's an

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Speaker 1: email or two. I have one here signed Minneapolis Mom

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Speaker 1: and it was about our podcast on Duelas and Midwives,

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Speaker 1: and she writes, I was thrilled to listen to your

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Speaker 1: podcast about this because I always hope the women will

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Speaker 1: go into the birthing process being as informed as possible.

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Speaker 1: And my first daughter in a hospital with a certified

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Speaker 1: nurse wife nurse midwife to dulas, one was in training,

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Speaker 1: and my husband. Although I had a wonderful and supportive

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Speaker 1: certified nurse midwife at the birth, the hospital rotates obi's

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Speaker 1: and CNMs, so you never know we will be on

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Speaker 1: duty when you deliver. Having a DULA present meant that

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Speaker 1: I could rely on a consistent nurturing person to support me.

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Speaker 1: My duelas dripped my back, kept me hydrated, help me breathe,

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Speaker 1: and most of all, had unwavering faith in me. I

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Speaker 1: was able to birth a nine and a half pound

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Speaker 1: baby with no drugs or medical interventions. My second daughter

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Speaker 1: was a planned home birth. I had her in a

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Speaker 1: birthing tab and was supported by two midwives, one in training,

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Speaker 1: a duelah, and my husband. It was truly the most beautiful, peaceful,

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Speaker 1: and fulfilling moments in my life. I felt like my

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Speaker 1: daughter was brought into the world surrounded by jen, tollness

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Speaker 1: and love. I realized that home bursts are not for everyone,

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Speaker 1: but as I mentioned above, it's always my hope that

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Speaker 1: I will take the time to truly inform themselves about

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Speaker 1: the different options. Well, I've got an email here from

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Speaker 1: Natasha about our beer podcast, and Natasha, You're welcome because

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Speaker 1: in parentheses you wrote, I'd love it if you read

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Speaker 1: this on the show. Dreams do Come true. All lonesome um,

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Speaker 1: she says. For the longest time, I drank a certain

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Speaker 1: brand of beer because it tasted good. Then I started

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Speaker 1: seeing these horrible commercials with tightly clothed, big busty women

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Speaker 1: in it that behave like they didn't have a brain

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Speaker 1: cell in their heads, and it just irked me so

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Speaker 1: much I quit drinking it. Then I discovered sam Adams,

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Speaker 1: which has commercials about the factory, what products they use,

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Speaker 1: and who makes the beer. That shows me that they

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Speaker 1: have so much pride in their beer that they don't

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Speaker 1: need to do marketing that the others do. Plus it

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Speaker 1: tastes so good, and ever since then, I've been a

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Speaker 1: sam Adams girl. Also, I haven't had anyone comment or

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Speaker 1: tell me that I'm unladylike for drinking beer us believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. My six ft tall, two pound work

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Speaker 1: out for an hour every day. Ex Marine older brother

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Speaker 1: drinks get this wine coolers and I dare someone to

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Speaker 1: call him girly. So if you've got an email us

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Speaker 1: in our way the addresses mom stuff at how stuffworks

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can also hit us up on Facebook

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Speaker 1: and on Twitter. You can follow us there at mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff podcast. And finally, you can read our blog during

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Speaker 1: the week, It's stuff Mom Never told You from how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. For more on this and thousands

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Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: To learn more about the podcast, clock on the podcast

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Speaker 1: The how stuff Works I Fine app has arrived. Download

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Speaker 1: two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you