1
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,400
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy, and every week I bring

3
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,320
Speaker 1: you a new story about rebels and revolts and weirdos

4
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: and whoever else I think it's cool. This week, I'm

5
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 1: super excited to bring back our first returning guest, Miriam Rocheck.

6
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,840
Speaker 1: You might remember her from the Paris Commune episodes. Uh

7
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 1: specifically might remember her as the lesbian tallship sailor who

8
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: wants allegedly, alongside the rest of the crew, stole the

9
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 1: tourist boat from the bosses who were stealing wages from them,

10
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,000
Speaker 1: and ran the boat themselves. But in addition to I

11
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 1: mean allegedly done that, Miriam is also a history nerd

12
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,239
Speaker 1: and my friend, this parts not alleged. That part is

13
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,320
Speaker 1: is true. Yeah, that's true, it's proven. Yeah, um, and

14
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 1: a great number of other things besides Miriam. How are

15
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 1: you doing today? Doing pretty good? Excited to be your

16
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 1: first returning guest. Yay. And we have Sophie on the call,

17
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: who's not count as returning guest because Sophie is always here,

18
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: Sophie is ever present, Sophie is our producer, and Sophie,

19
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: you're with me in the less cool waters of having

20
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: never stolen a tall ship? Is that accurate? No, Okay,

21
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: maybe Sophie's just better at covering her tracks than me. Yeah,

22
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 1: if he does have good security culture, not that I

23
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 1: would know, because no one ever knows if people have

24
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: get security culture. Mm hmm. People know when people have

25
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 1: bad security anyway. Also not joining us, but present in

26
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 1: spirit is Ian, our editor, and the theme music was

27
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 1: written by a woman, and you should check her stuff out.

28
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 1: Both Ian and on woman have stolen ships before because

29
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: they're not here to claim otherwise. So, Miriam, this week,

30
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: what a fun topic. I can't wait. This week we're

31
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: going to talk about the wors Slaw ghetto uprising, which

32
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: was desperate attempt by the Jews of Poland too honestly

33
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 1: not really free themselves from the Nazis, but to die

34
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: on their own term. Um. I have not cried nearly

35
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 1: so much researching an episode as I did this time.

36
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna I'm not gonna like linger on the

37
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 1: atrocities of the Nazis in this episode, both Miriam and

38
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 1: and dear listeners, I will I will tell you that. Um,

39
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,800
Speaker 1: it seems like that's pretty covered elsewhere. When when you say, Miriam,

40
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, I think that those such things are are

41
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: generally known. Um to the extent that there are people

42
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: who don't know, I think most of them are not

43
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 1: so much ignorant as just lying about the facts. But um, yeah,

44
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,960
Speaker 1: I think I think it's pretty common knowledge at this point.

45
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 1: I hope it's pretty common knowledge at this point. Yeah.

46
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 1: And if you're you know, young enough that you haven't

47
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: heard of this particular thing, there's a really bad thing

48
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,160
Speaker 1: that happened. And I don't want to be the one

49
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: to tell you all the details. You can find the

50
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: details somewhere else. It's worth reading about. Unfortunately. So there's

51
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,679
Speaker 1: three major political players in the uprising to tell you

52
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 1: the story that I do want to tell. There's three

53
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: major political players, and I've got my biases, so I'm

54
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: going to be forthright about them, because a lot of

55
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: the history is like, doesn't announce their biases and then

56
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 1: mostly tells the story of one of these different players.

57
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna be forth right. I like the

58
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: Boond where the anti Zionist socialists. I like the Boond.

59
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised by this, but it makes me happy.

60
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,800
Speaker 1: So before World War two, they're up to all this

61
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 1: really cool stuff, since they're cool people and all of that,

62
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: and I'm going to focus on telling the story from

63
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: from their perspective, in part because it's the tale with

64
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 1: characters who are often left out of other retellings of

65
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: the uprising. So this isn't the story of the Warsaw

66
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: Ghetto uprising. This is a story of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Yeah, yeah,

67
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: it sounds great. We're gonna start with a lot of

68
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 1: fun background. And I'm not actually even saying fun sarcastically here,

69
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,520
Speaker 1: like you might think based on the the later part

70
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,119
Speaker 1: of the story. I think I gotta say, like, I

71
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate Um the way that you are being, you know,

72
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 1: sensitive about this. I do think that there's like a

73
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 1: gingernus to the approach that UM maybe comes from not

74
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: being Jewish and having grown up with these stories, because

75
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: I think that there's a tendency, like I've heard a

76
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: lot of stories about the Holocaust from members of my

77
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 1: own family that are like, oh, here's a funny story.

78
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,120
Speaker 1: It just it took place in a concentration camp, um,

79
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 1: and it is incredibly jarring. I think if you did

80
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,479
Speaker 1: not grow up with that where like, well, you know,

81
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 1: that's that is where two of my grandparents spent like

82
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: the majority of their adolescence. So they have one or

83
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 1: two funny stories from there, and like a lot of people,

84
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,480
Speaker 1: I think they sometimes prefer to tell those funny stories

85
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: versus other stories. They have also obviously told me other stories,

86
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: But um, I think that that sort of gingernus around,

87
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: like now we're gonna be talking about this thing, something

88
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 1: really horrible happened, and we want to be really careful

89
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 1: about it's sort of absent in like people close or

90
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 1: to it, where it's like, oh, let me tell you

91
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 1: about this, like great buddy of mine, Oh yeah, and

92
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,160
Speaker 1: then he died. Of that sort of approach that, um,

93
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 1: that is sort of the only way you can relate

94
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,359
Speaker 1: to your past if this thing is, if the Holocaust

95
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 1: is as present in your past as as it is

96
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,200
Speaker 1: for people who lived through it. So I guess I

97
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 1: want to say that like, well, I appreciate the sensitivity,

98
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 1: and I think that it is like warranted, and um,

99
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, shows shows that you are really thoughtful and

100
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 1: respectful of this topic. Um, it's not necessarily the way

101
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: that I'm used to talking about this. Well, you should

102
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 1: feel free to a head or you're part of the

103
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 1: conversation however you would like. In today's episode, for sure, Margaret,

104
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: would it help if I broke the ice by telling

105
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 1: you my favorite Holocaust joke? You just wish people can

106
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 1: see the look on your face? All right, Well, I'm

107
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,159
Speaker 1: gonna tell him. You can edit it out or whatever

108
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: if you decide to. But an old Jewish man, a

109
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,039
Speaker 1: Holocaust survivor, dies at the end of a very long life.

110
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,160
Speaker 1: Hundreds of grandchildren don't even worry. He's very very happy. Um.

111
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,479
Speaker 1: But he dies and he stands before God, and the

112
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 1: very first thing he does is he tells the Lord

113
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: a Holocaust joke, and God goes, you can'ts that's not funny,

114
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: And the man laughed himself. He goes, well, I guess

115
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 1: you had to be there. Ye, it's meta, even it

116
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 1: is a little meta. I hope you like it. I

117
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: do like it. We're not cutting it, okay, all right,

118
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna talking about this guy. This guy's name

119
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 1: is Bernard Goldstein, and he lives on in fulk history.

120
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: As far as I understand, as Comrade Bernard, can I

121
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: call him Bernie? You can? I actually even do? In

122
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: this script sometime because I him already. Okay, cool. Yeah.

123
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 1: So he's a socialist, and he's my favorite kind of socialist,

124
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,480
Speaker 1: which is the kind that the Soviet Union and also hated.

125
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: And his life provides a through narrative to what I

126
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 1: want to talk about. So I'm gonna start with Comrade Bernard,

127
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna draw from his book Five Years in

128
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 1: the Warsaw Ghetto more than any other single source. Uh,

129
00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. He's a very good storyteller

130
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: and tells a lot of stuff around the Warsaw Getdo

131
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: that I hadn't heard before. Well, and the fact that

132
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 1: he wrote a book called Five Years in the Worse

133
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: Sa Ghetto tells me something very important about him, which

134
00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 1: is that he survived. And I'm really glad to know

135
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 1: that going in. Yes, that's the Oh so now you

136
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 1: can't handle never mind, I look, yes, I prefer it

137
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: when people don't die. Yeah, all right. So in the

138
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 1: English edition of this book, there's this touching introduction written

139
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 1: by Leonard shot Skin, who translated the book from Yiddish.

140
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: So it talks about how Leonard was raised in the

141
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 1: US Polish Jewish socialists and about how all his life

142
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 1: is a kid, he heard stories about Comrade Bernard, who

143
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 1: ranks higher than Robin Hood as the full hero of

144
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 1: his childhood. But the translator Leonard wasn't like a politics guy,

145
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 1: at least not by what I could find of him.

146
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: He was a bookseller. He wrote books with titles like

147
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: besides this book. His books have titles like the Mathematics

148
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: of Books Selling. He mostly cared about inventory management at bookstores.

149
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 1: And I really like this because it it grounds all

150
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 1: of this. It talks about how like politics, leftist politics,

151
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 1: they're just normal, like their pain is this thing that

152
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: separates us from other people. But I don't know, there's

153
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 1: just this this thing we have, this way that people live.

154
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 1: And you can just be the bookseller guy who spends

155
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: all of his time thinking about inventory management while also

156
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 1: being super excited about and translating from Yiddish the the

157
00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: book Five Years in the Worst Slow Ghetto about a

158
00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 1: diehard socialist. Yeah, I love that. So. Comrade Bernard or

159
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,599
Speaker 1: Bernie was born in a small city in Poland in

160
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 1: nine about three hours from Warsaw, which was under Russian

161
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: Zarist control at the time. I like to imagine that

162
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: his parents named him Comrade Bernard. I'm guessing they didn't.

163
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,320
Speaker 1: It's probable that that came later. They had the you know,

164
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: not a gender revealed party, but like the whatever, the

165
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 1: early equivalent of that was just what it's a comrade,

166
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,840
Speaker 1: exactly red instead of pinker blue. Oh, now I want

167
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 1: to do that. And so, but his name or at

168
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,720
Speaker 1: least him being a comrade, did not come much later

169
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,559
Speaker 1: than his birth. By the time he's thirteen, he's reading

170
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 1: anti Zarist text illegally. By the time he's sixteen, it's

171
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: nineteen o five in Russia and for for anyone listening,

172
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,960
Speaker 1: Russia tried super hard devil leftist revolution in nineteen o five,

173
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 1: and little Comrade that's probably what his friends called him.

174
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 1: He sure ship wasn't going to let that happen without

175
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,079
Speaker 1: him having something to do with it. So in May

176
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 1: five he joins up with the boond in a forest

177
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: for a secret revolutionary meeting, and the boond there this

178
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,760
Speaker 1: and you know, Mariam, please fill in or correct me

179
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,599
Speaker 1: about any of this. They're this secular Jewish organization in

180
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 1: Russia at the time, and they do all this neat

181
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,680
Speaker 1: ship like, they insist on their right to organize as

182
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: Jews within the larger revolutionary framework at a time when

183
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 1: the Bolsheviks were like, no, we want everyone to do

184
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: everything our way. And a third of their members were

185
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: women at a time when that was not at all

186
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 1: the norm. They also weren't Zionist. This is one of

187
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 1: their major distinctions from a large chunk of other parts

188
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: of the of of Judaism at the time. Or not Judaism, sorry,

189
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: but like Jewish culture, like organized Jewish nationalism or jamized

190
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,480
Speaker 1: Jewish identity. Yeah, yeah, totally. Uh. They didn't care much

191
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 1: about the Holy Land. They saw themselves in Poland, for example,

192
00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: as citizens of Poland who are going to fight for

193
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,599
Speaker 1: their rights where a were and Bernard wrote about the

194
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,760
Speaker 1: Boond quote it was organized to fight both against Zarism,

195
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 1: which was oppressive to the Jew as a worker and

196
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 1: as a Jew, and against the feudal elements in the

197
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 1: Jewish community itself. From its beginning, the Boond was much

198
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,720
Speaker 1: more than a political organization. Even in the early days,

199
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 1: it undertook, in addition to its political functions, the educational

200
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 1: function of establishing Jewish schools and raising the vernacular Yiddish

201
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: to the status of a recognized language. It undertook the

202
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: cultural function of encouraging the new poets, dramatists and novelists

203
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 1: who are using the Yiddish language, refining it and making

204
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,199
Speaker 1: it a literary tool. It undertook the function of organizing

205
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,080
Speaker 1: the Jews into trade unions to defend their economic interests

206
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 1: against Jewish or Christian employers. It established health resorts and

207
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 1: recreational facilities. It taught a new ethics of the brotherhood

208
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 1: of men, of mutual respect and the dignity of the individual. Yeah,

209
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,680
Speaker 1: I just like them so much. I love the Bond,

210
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, and like I love my favorite cool pie

211
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,640
Speaker 1: full episodes where we get to talk about people who

212
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,440
Speaker 1: create entire societies of mutual aid and solidarity. So you

213
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 1: have the Boond and they also they caught a lot

214
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: of hate from the government. The government didn't like Jews

215
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 1: and it didn't like socialists. So you could probably guess

216
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,480
Speaker 1: their opinion about socialist Jews. Uh cancels itself out. They're

217
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 1: they're cool with it now, Yes, I think that's I

218
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: think that's what happened. So I also before we before

219
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 1: we go on, I just want to like, because I

220
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: think you did give like a great and perfect summary

221
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,680
Speaker 1: of of the Boond and their whole deal. Um. But

222
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,840
Speaker 1: the one thing that I want to like clarify before

223
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 1: we go on, not because I think you don't understand this,

224
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: but because I think, Um, it's like a thing that

225
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 1: comes up talking to people often. Um is the whole

226
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 1: idea of like secular Jewish culture that I think a

227
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: lot of people think of being Jewish as as being

228
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 1: of a particular religion. And while it can mean that, Um,

229
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,199
Speaker 1: Jewishness is also a culture and like a cultural context

230
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 1: and community that can be entirely separate from any religious beliefs.

231
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 1: And like the boond is a great example of that,

232
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: because they were Jewish and secular, and like the way

233
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 1: that they were secular was Jewish, right, So they weren't

234
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 1: just by being secular, they did not stop being Jewish. Um.

235
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: And like I think it's important, like when you talk

236
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 1: about Yiddish culture and Yiddish language, like in Yiddish, the

237
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 1: word Yiddish means Jewish. Um. If you talk to really

238
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,680
Speaker 1: old Jews, they'll say that they grew up speaking Jewish

239
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 1: at home. Um. What what we would usually say is

240
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 1: that they grew up speaking Yiddish. So like when they

241
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: say that they're having you know, Yiddish literature, Yiddish theater,

242
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: Yiddish poetry, Yiddish language. It's indistinguishable from saying Jewish um,

243
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: all of those things. So just um, the religious aspect

244
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,960
Speaker 1: is not like a defining aspect of Jewishness in this context.

245
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: And I just think it's it's important to to point

246
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 1: that out because I think that for people coming from

247
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 1: say Christianity, where like if you stop being Christian, you

248
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 1: stop believing in the religion, you stop being Christian. Um,

249
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 1: that is not true of Judaism. Um. You can stop

250
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 1: believing in God or never believe in God, as many

251
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: Jews don't and um, like the guy in that joke,

252
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 1: maybe um, and you're still Jewish, um if you you know,

253
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 1: you can still have participation in Jewish culture and Jewishness.

254
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: And the boond is like one of my favorite examples

255
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 1: of ways that people do that or did that. Yeah yeah,

256
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 1: as a Miriam and I have this conversation constantly, But

257
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 1: as a as a lapsed Catholic, I'm jealous of that

258
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 1: because there are some aspects of that culture that I'm

259
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: interested in, but I don't believe in the Christian God.

260
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 1: I just don't. And also or the church or anyway,

261
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:04,000
Speaker 1: let's move on. So talking about Margaret's no religious beliefs anytime. Yeah, So,

262
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: comrade Bernard, he's in the forest now. It's in the

263
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 1: forest with four hundred of his new best friends and

264
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: they're having a meeting, a secret meeting during the revolution,

265
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: when all of a sudden they're surrounded by soldiers, cavalry

266
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,360
Speaker 1: and infantry. Soldiers, both cavalry and infantry rather and the

267
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: soldiers are like, who is your leader? Oh? I love

268
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: when they do that, I know. And do you want

269
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: to know what they said to them? Miriam, I'm gonna

270
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: give you a hint. It's the single best thing to say.

271
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 1: The cops. I'm going to remain silent, and I want

272
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 1: to speak to a lawyer. I was they didn't say ship. Okay,

273
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 1: that works too, Yeah, I was gonna say nothing. They

274
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,680
Speaker 1: didn't say nothing, and maybe they talked some ship. I don't,

275
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they sure ship didn't own up

276
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 1: to having a leader or out any leader. It happened

277
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 1: a lot occupy. You will say who's your leader? And

278
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: then like it got boring after all, just not saying anything.

279
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: So people would give like joke answers, just like mhmm.

280
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 1: Point to random people, say Spartacus, you know whatever, just

281
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 1: just to pass the time, you know, while being harassed

282
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 1: by cops. One time in New York, we had this

283
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: pirate march and the cops were like, what are y'all doing?

284
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: What's this about? And I was like pirates And they're like,

285
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: was this the protest of the war? And I was like, no,

286
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: we like pirates. And we were like walking around taking

287
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 1: the streets dressed up like pirates, and it's like a

288
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: couple of hundred of us. It was so much fun.

289
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,120
Speaker 1: The cops does not know what to make of us anyway.

290
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: They're really, who's your leader? And you didn't answer because

291
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: they didn't say who's your captain? Some meaning right exactly,

292
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,000
Speaker 1: like it depends that we vote or anyway, we'll do it, okay.

293
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: So the soldiers insisted upon knowing who the leader was,

294
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 1: the bundest held strong. Boon just held strong. They linked

295
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 1: arms and they started singing revolutionary songs, and fucking soldiers

296
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 1: went in with swords. It was not a massacre, at

297
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 1: least not by the terms that you might be expecting

298
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 1: based on that particular setup. But it was not pretty.

299
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 1: Eighty of the four hundred were wounded by sword, and

300
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: Bernie has a wicked scar on his chin from a

301
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: saber cut for the rest of his life. Um, I

302
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,159
Speaker 1: don't know that anyone died in this. It would be

303
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 1: kind of amazing if nobody did. Well, that's kind of interesting, right, yeah,

304
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 1: because you're like, okay, well, there's like a sort of

305
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: one sided sword fight that no one died in. But

306
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: the implication is that no one died. Wow, I don't know,

307
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 1: all had really high hit points. Okay, I don't know,

308
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 1: so Bernard. So he gets arrested, everyone gets arrested, and

309
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 1: all of the prisoners are made to run a gauntlet

310
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: while soldiers like beat the ship out of them. And

311
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,280
Speaker 1: he's already wounded at the start of this, and the

312
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,919
Speaker 1: whole time he keeps his red flag wrapped around his

313
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: body under his clothes hidden because like, you can't let

314
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: the enemy take the flag symbols and they're importance and

315
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: all that ship people with flags, they get really into that, say,

316
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 1: I'm like especially okay. Anyway, so he ends up in

317
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: the hospital right where in he's sixteen. He's full of

318
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: p in vinegar. So he just pieces out of the hospital.

319
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: He just does himselfa I'd rather not be under arrest,

320
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: goes home. Sixteen year olds are indestructible. Yeah, so he's

321
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: all in on the boons now. He moves to Warsaw

322
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: the next year, six and he goes off to help

323
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 1: some for workers strike. I think the word for for

324
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: workers furry. I think that's correct. Yes, So he's off

325
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 1: to help the furries with their strike. Him and the

326
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: representative of the furry strike. They sit down and negotiate

327
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,200
Speaker 1: with the bosses, and the two of them get arrested again.

328
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 1: He's sixteen, he's on his seventeen whatever. Sixteen's on his

329
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 1: second arrest, and the whole negotiated and a strike thing

330
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 1: had been a ploy. They were like, oh, yeah, we'll

331
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: totally negotiate with you, but really they just wanted to

332
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,439
Speaker 1: arrest the leaders, so they arrested them this time. He

333
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 1: can't break out, is easy, I guess he's not in

334
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: the hospital. He gets thrown into general population. And apparently

335
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 1: the revolutionaries and the socialists were actually sort of tougher

336
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 1: on crime than the cops because the cops are all crooked,

337
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 1: and so a lot of the prisoners don't like the socialists.

338
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 1: At this particular point, and so they're beating the ship

339
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 1: out of Bernard until one guy in Joel is a thief.

340
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: It's like, oh no, that's my Sally from last year.

341
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,919
Speaker 1: Leave him alone. So the one upside is that he

342
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 1: had already been in jailsome and the Furies on the outside. Okay,

343
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: I think it's actually Furier. I'm not sure it's Furyest.

344
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 1: We should stick with Furries, okay, but hear me out

345
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 1: Fury Furrier, Furious, all right. So the fury Ists are like, fuck, no,

346
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: let our people out of jail. So there's a big

347
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 1: boycott of the fur industry in and I guess the

348
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: boond maybe organizes this. That's kind of implied, but it's

349
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 1: not really explicit. And this is really bad. This boycott

350
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: is really bad. So the bosses bribe the cops to

351
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 1: let Bernard and the other guy out of jail. All right,

352
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: that's not the way I expected that to go down,

353
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 1: but whenever, it works. Right. So he's seventeen. He has

354
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 1: direct actioned his way out of prison twice, once with

355
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,719
Speaker 1: his feet, once with the solidarity of an entire fucking movement.

356
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: But um, I have bad news for the Russian peasantry

357
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: of nineteen o five six. They don't win. The five

358
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: Revolution fails, lots of people are in jail. The radical

359
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: wave ebbs Comrade Bernard. He keeps trying to organize, but

360
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: people are sick of losing, sick of fighting. Bernard doesn't

361
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: mind fighting and doesn't mind losing. He gets arrested organizing

362
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: the carpenters. He gets arrested organizing the painters. He gets

363
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: arrested organizing by the ironmongers. Nice collect them, I know,

364
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: I know. Fifth Time is the charm, and he gets

365
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: exiled to some tiny Polish village. They're like, we're sick

366
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 1: of you, and so you would guess, right, Miriam, at

367
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: this point, do you think he's gonna stay content with

368
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: his new lot in life and just stay quietly in

369
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 1: this Polish village, biding his time until material conditions change

370
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: and are better for revolution. I mean, if I had

371
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: to guess, based on the fact that he's a topic

372
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: person on this podcast, I would say that he hangs

373
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: out in a small Polish village, maybe picks up woodworking,

374
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: and um tells people to vote in their local elections.

375
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: You'd think that, but he actually escapes exile and heads

376
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: back to Warsaw and in. Okay, so I don't know

377
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: if you knew this, but you know, people are really

378
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: anti Semitic. I've heard that. Yes, okay, this is like

379
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: a whole big thing going back through history, and you

380
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: know Russia's like exper for it. Yeah. Then there's blood libel. Yep,

381
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: heard of that one too. It's this whole anti Semitic

382
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 1: like meme kind of that's like Jews ritualistically killing Christian

383
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: kids and bathing in their blood. That a reasonable one

384
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: sentence of it. Yeah, I know there's um there's sometimes

385
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: part of the story is that we take the blood

386
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: of Christian babies and use it to make moths for Passover,

387
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: which anyone who's ever eaten mazza would be able to

388
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: tell you is clearly not true, because um, it would

389
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 1: have flavor in its blood, taste like something probably Yeah, yeah,

390
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: um mansa just tastes like dry. It just tastes like

391
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 1: the texture of dry. Um. I really liked it as

392
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: a kid. I mean it's you know, it's fine. You

393
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: can even put things on it, um, as many things

394
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: as possible usually you're eating. But yeah, it does not

395
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: does not have anything in it besides flour and water

396
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: and salt, so definitely not not blood. What about of

397
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: Christian kids though, um, not even of Christian kids? All right, well,

398
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: then that explains what happens next. Because there's this Ukrainian

399
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: Jew named Menahem Bayliss, and he's in his forties, he

400
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: has five kids, he's completely indifferent to religion. He's a

401
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: superintendent of a brick factory. And in his town a

402
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: Christian kid has found mutilated and Manahem is a Jew,

403
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: so he gets framed up on it and he gets

404
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: accused of blood libel, and this becomes worldwide news. All

405
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: of the like coolest writers and scientists and ship in

406
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: Russia write letters and defense of the guy against anti Semitism.

407
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: And two things of note happened around this trial. First

408
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: and more relevant to our story. Comrade Bernard and the

409
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: rest of the boon, they organize a general strike over

410
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: the trial. Nice, and do they do that by tweeting

411
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: general strike? Now, I'm I think so, I'm not actually

412
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: aware of other ways that you could organize a general

413
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: strike besides calling for one to your three thousand followers

414
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Yeah, that seems to be the way people

415
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: tried to do it. Yeah, So that's probably what they did.

416
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: But actually they probably did organization and his organization rules,

417
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: and it's a way you get things done, and you

418
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: you kind of just like, can't funk with the Jews

419
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: at this point without them doing ship right back to you.

420
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: And an awful lot of the working class in all

421
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: of this area is Jewish. Speaking of general strikes, here

422
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: is a word from our sponsors, all of whom would

423
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: be incredibly happy if people were to get together with people,

424
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: create systems of organization by which to exert their will

425
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: as a laboring class, and shut down the economy until

426
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: such time as society is reorganized along better lines and

427
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,239
Speaker 1: we are back. Okay, So there's this general strike. I

428
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: don't know the effects of the general strike, right, and

429
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 1: I wanted. I tried to find more about this, but

430
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: I didn't find enough in time. But the other thing

431
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: about this trial that's so interesting. You have this rapidly

432
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: anti Semitic court. The jury is twelve Christians, seven of

433
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: whom are ultra nationalists, and they find him innocent. WHOA,

434
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: how badly do you have to funk up a frame

435
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: up to get results like that? Yeah, that's that's um.

436
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: Either the frame up was very bad, or the jury

437
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: was somewhat influenced by the like general strike going on

438
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: outside the window. Yeah, I'm I'm guessing a little of both.

439
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: There was like it was like comically bad. They were like,

440
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: I noticed the child. I hate to talk about the

441
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: child this way, but like noticed the child has thirteen wounds,

442
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: which is a very important number in the evil Zionist

443
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: blood libel land. And then like the corners like as

444
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: fourteen wounds on the the kid his fourteen wounds. So

445
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: they let him go, and I just I was like,

446
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: basically I heard about the general strike and I was like,

447
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: I need to find out why. And I was like,

448
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: oh my god, of course they had a blood libel case. Okay,

449
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: So back to Bernard Bernie or Comrade for short. In

450
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, he gets arrested and it was shocking to

451
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: you this time he's had a secret trade union meeting

452
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: that should have been more secret it was, I guess.

453
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: And then Germany invades Poland. This is the World War

454
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: one time, not the World War two times, and prisoners

455
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: like Bernard, who's in jail at this point, get taken

456
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: deeper into Russia. He gets out on parole, so he

457
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: immediately gets himself a fake passport and fox off back

458
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: du Kiev, whereupon he gets busted for parole violation and exiled,

459
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: this time to Siberia. I've already I'm starting to think

460
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: he's not very good at avoiding a rest. That's true. Well, okay,

461
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: he makes times. It's like, all right, you're you're a teenager,

462
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, I get it, but like it

463
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: does seem like it's happening an awful lot. But you

464
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: know what, he gets all of this practicing. All the

465
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: steaks are low. Oh, this works out really well for him.

466
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: He is, having failed numerous times, he eventually comes out

467
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: winging on the not get arrested front. His book is

468
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: better than any fantasy novel I've ever read. And I

469
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: say this as a fantasy writer who deeply cares about fantasy. Okay, so,

470
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: exiled to Siberia. I've lost count of his arrests and

471
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: flights from the law. But this is exile number two,

472
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: and he does when it's Siberia, they really mean it.

473
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: I know, and so um, I don't know. Do you

474
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: think he's going to connoct some elaborate escape plan and

475
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: then pull it off? I mean that or he's just

476
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: gonna like walk away and be like I'd rather not. Sophie,

477
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: what's your guess? Uh, I've already read ahead. I can't

478
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: I'm so biased that I can't without lying. Unethical for

479
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: you to guess Sophie reads the scripts along. I was like,

480
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: I read what happens, so it won't be elaborate scheme.

481
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: It is. This will be shocking to almost no one.

482
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of a laborate scheme, and

483
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: it's a little bit just taking advantage of circumstances. So

484
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: he gets sick, like actually sick, and he wants to

485
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: go to the doctor. But this is Siberia and he's

486
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: a prisoner, so the doctor is fifty miles away. So

487
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: he goes to the head cop guy and he's like, hey,

488
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: but let me let me go to the doctor so

489
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: I don't die. And the head cop guy he's suspicious.

490
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, fair, this is this is comrade Bernardi,

491
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: you know. So he starts inspecting Bernard, like lifting up

492
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: his eyelids to see if he's sick. You're a nurse,

493
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: is that a thing? Hey? A classic eyelid check. That's

494
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: how you know. That's how you know if someone's sick. Yeah, yeah,

495
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: totally yeah, And so so Bernardi gets sassy and he's like,

496
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: oh you're a doctor now to the guy who's like

497
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: lifting up his eyelids. Just not what I would say.

498
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: I wish I would have this cur that was some

499
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: of lifting up my eyelids, and they control whether I

500
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: live or die. I don't know. I don't know what

501
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: I would say. Yeah, when when somebody who is allowed

502
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: to kill me has their fingers in my eye, that's

503
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: like not a moment to get sassy in in my opinion.

504
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: But but but the evidence says so the head cop

505
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: doesn't like this, so he smacks Bernard. So Bernard, he

506
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: in turned as, also does not like this, so he

507
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: picks up a kerosene lamp and breaks it over the

508
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: CoP's head being measured and considered. Response, Yeah and okay,

509
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: immediate effects are negative. The guards come in and beat

510
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: the ship out of him. Um, but the story does

511
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: the rounds everyone. Comrade Bernard broke kerosene lamp over that

512
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: cop guy's head, and all the exiles get worked up

513
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: and excited, and they they send a petition and finally

514
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: the governor of the region intervenes and is like find whatever.

515
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: Bernard can go see the doctor if it'll shut these

516
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: people up. Direct action gets the goods. How sick could

517
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: he have been if he's up for breaking a kerosene lamp?

518
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: Fair enough, okay, But I'm a whimp blake. When I'm sick,

519
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: I can't do anything, so I guess the doctor. And

520
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: the doctor was like, oh funk, you're sick, um, but

521
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: it's not tuberculosis. Don't worry, dear listener, it's pneumonia. And

522
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: the doctor is a bud, a fellow exile. I assume

523
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: they called each other buds all the exiles. I don't

524
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: see any reason why they wouldn't have. So the doctor

525
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: is like, okay, he has to stay here for treatment

526
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: because he's sick. And so then Bernard gets better and

527
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: the head cop guys like, give me back my Bernard.

528
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: But the doctor is like, oh no, he's still recovering,

529
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 1: even though he was fully recovered. So I guess it's

530
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: just like stay there, and he gets a basically gets

531
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: his doctor's note that's like I don't have to go

532
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: to exile today, and he spends his time like hunting

533
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: and fishing until but it's therapeutic hunting and fishing. Yeah totally, yeah, yeah, yeah,

534
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: convalescence or whatever until the fucking Russian Revolution happens. Nice,

535
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: he just waited it out. Yeah yeah, you're like all right,

536
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: was And honestly, that's one of the main lessons I

537
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: get from a lot of reading history is that like,

538
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: sh it's gonna change. The existing systems might not be

539
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: the systems in the future. There's like long chunks where

540
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't change. It's not there's no guarantee, but whatever. Okay,

541
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: So because like it seems like the main reason not

542
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: to die, so you get to live through so many

543
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: historical events, at least when things are really bad. I

544
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: don't know, whatever, Okay, I'm not telling you why did

545
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: or at least at least to live through different historical

546
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: events than the ones that are currently happening to you.

547
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: And like, I don't know, it's like you have to

548
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: tell the story of the Russian Revolution or tell the

549
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: story the warsaw gattab up present. You don't have to,

550
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: but I'm choosing to, and because I think it provides

551
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: good context. Because all of these people, they're not numbers,

552
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: they're people. They have beliefs, they fight for those beliefs

553
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: before the events that they're remembered for. They're still doing

554
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: all kinds of ship As soon as the exiles here

555
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: about the revolution, they're like, it seems like we should

556
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: be in charge of this town instead of the cops.

557
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: So they round up all the cops and disarmed them

558
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: and raise the red flag over the town. Fuck. Yes,

559
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: you're giving me like way more excited about the whole

560
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,719
Speaker 1: red flag thing than I would normally, right, right, especially

561
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: because he stays on the right side. Okay, anyway, so

562
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere Siberia, I guess I have

563
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: to do to have a revolutionist round up the cops,

564
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: disarm them, raise the flag. I mean, I guess they

565
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: could have done that at any time. Yeah, I mean,

566
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, so then they probably would have gotten

567
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: reinforcements if there hadn't have been a revolution happening. Right,

568
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: And so this this unaware of the revolution or the

569
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: fact that the revolutions hit this small town, like headhead

570
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: cop guy, the head cop guy's boss shows up and

571
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: the revolutionary has taken prisoner and Bernard Goldstein is supposed

572
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: to kill him since he's the one who suffered the worst, right,

573
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: So they tie him to a tree, get out the

574
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: old revolver, and this head cop guy just breaks down

575
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: sobbing and tear, and so Bernard's like bucket and doesn't

576
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: kill him. And he says, basically to quote the translator Leonard,

577
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: the victorious revolution must show a humane attitude, even to

578
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: an evil servant of the czar. Wow. I know he

579
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: wasn't a Bolshevik. Yeah, So Bernard he fox off out

580
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: of exile because he's not an exile anymore, and he

581
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: winds up in Kievan, Ukraine and he helps organize a

582
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: Jewish militia and then helps overthrow the fucking reactionary government.

583
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: I love that for him. Yeah, I'm going to be

584
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: picturing him swinging, like swinging a kerosene lamp, like just

585
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: sort of on the barricade. Goes yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

586
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: I feel like, oh, I don't funk with Comrad Bernie

587
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: over there. You're gonna get a kerosene lamp to the face.

588
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: And so he's like, all right, Poland is independent now,

589
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: so I can go home. So he goes home to

590
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: Warsaw and he gets involved in the boons there and

591
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Poland isn't having a communist revolution at this point, but

592
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: the labor union is getting strong again, and he goes

593
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: and he just throws himself into labor organizing after multiple

594
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: successful revolutions, and he goes and he he works to

595
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: organize the least organized trades, the places that are most

596
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: resistant to socialism and trade unionism, because he's just like

597
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: fucking made out of charisma, Like any problem me as

598
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: he rolls charisma to solve it, or sometimes he rolls

599
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: kerosene lamp attack, which is I think a Decks based attack. Yeah,

600
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: I would think so. Yeah. And he he winds up

601
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: head of the defense groups or militias or whatever who

602
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: fight off Polish nationalists and fascists and ship like that.

603
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: And in Poland at least the the boons trying to

604
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: organize for socialism ends up with one other enemy to fight,

605
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: the communists. Yep, to quote Leonard Chatskin again, who is

606
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: pulling mostly from a biographical sketch that introduced the original

607
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: Yiddish version of this book. In their campaign to split

608
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: the labor movement and destroy the socialists, the communists stopped

609
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: at nothing. They used intimidation freely. They would often send

610
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: groups armed with revolvers to break up workers meetings. Once

611
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: they even attempted to disperse a national convention of the

612
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: Jewish Transport Workers Union with gunfire. They did not shrink

613
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: from a shooting attack on the famous Metam Sanatorium for children.

614
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: The attacks were carried out by tufts, who received from

615
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: the Communists and ideological justification for their own predilection for violence.

616
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: And so there's these street fights happening, right, But the

617
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: Socialist militia overall, they actually still refused to go on

618
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: the offensive against the Communists. They they're training for it,

619
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 1: but they're like, it'll just be a fucking blood bath,

620
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: and they like, I don't want to shoot their fellow workers. Um,

621
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: they would defend themselves though, Yeah, if only the Communists

622
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: also didn't want to shoot their fellow workers. Yeah. Yeah,

623
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: So the Communist Party, even though Bernard is literally a

624
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: huge part in why Socialists aren't like going on the

625
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: offensive against the Communist the Communist Party declares a formal

626
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: death sentence for our man, comrade Bernard, the one who

627
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: has led to successful revolutions. What makes them think they're

628
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: going to be able to carry that out? Like at

629
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: this point, how do you know, Yeah, one day he's

630
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: coming home, probably from organizing something in or doing some

631
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: dramatic weird thing that everyone's friend or whatever, because he's

632
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: a full hero. And he's ambushed by a bunch of

633
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: gunmen but he's armed too, and he shoots back, and

634
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: he drives the attackers back, he wounds one of them.

635
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: The attackers grab their wounded friend and funk off, and

636
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: the Communists don't funk with him anymore because he fucking

637
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: shot one of them. He tried to kill him. Wise decision. Yeah,

638
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: this guy has unlimited hit points and unlimited charisma. I know, right,

639
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of American, Like, okay, so this is like

640
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: one of the things, right, Like I can't back up

641
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: most of this with multiple sources. There's not in English

642
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: that I've been able to find a lot written biographically

643
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: about about him. But it then goes on to basically

644
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: paint him as the kind of the king of mutual

645
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: aid and warsaw. He's out there organizing people, he's keeping

646
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: everyone calm, he's mediating disputes between workers, he's like getting

647
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: workers to work on their hygiene. Like there's this whole

648
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: aside something else we could have used to occupy from time. Well,

649
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: like at one point he goes to this party and

650
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: that there's like fancy food and drink at this party

651
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: at this worker's house. But but Bernard shows up and

652
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: the guys like wife and kids are in like rags,

653
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: and he walks out and like, oh no, what's the

654
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: what what happened? And he's like, you can't spend money

655
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: on this stuff while like your your family is like

656
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: not being treated well until they have decent clothes, until

657
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: you've taken care of them. I will not. And so

658
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: then instead of getting mad, the person like solves the

659
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: problem and then invites him back and they have a

660
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: new party where everything's better. I didn't even write that

661
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: one down in the script. I just got excited about it.

662
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: I like this guy a lot. I know, I'm really glad.

663
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: I know he wrote a book, you know, because that

664
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: means he's going to make it. Yeah. And he's not

665
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: the leader of the boond or anything like that, right.

666
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: He he's leading a bunch of the militia and he's

667
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: doing a lot of organizing. But he's definitely not the

668
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: King of mutual Ady. He's not the monarch of anything. Wait,

669
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: who is the king of mutual aid? Margaret? Who did we? Uh?

670
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: Did we ever pick them. What's the coronation ceremony isn't

671
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: until next year. There's going to be the what's the

672
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: word for when everyone gets together and fights the death battle? Royal?

673
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: But anarchist revolution? I meant to say election. Can we

674
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: pretend that I set election? I tried to say the

675
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: phrase anarchist election, and it wouldn't come out of my mouth.

676
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: It turned into anarchist revolution, which makes more sense as

677
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: a concept, a less sense as a joke. Yeah, whereas

678
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: that everyone fighting each other to find out who is

679
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: the king of mutual aid is more like the Bolsheviks

680
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: stealing the okay? So uh So one of the problems

681
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: is happening for everyone, including especially in the Bond and

682
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: especially for Jews in Poland. Is that anti Semitism, which

683
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: was already real bad, gets real worse when Hitler comes

684
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: to power over in Germany. No way, I know you'll

685
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: be shocked to though this. You think everyone would be like, oh, well,

686
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: we don't like Germany. So okay. So even before Hitler invades,

687
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: Warsaw got real real ship for Jews. There's pickets at

688
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Jewish businesses. Jewish students keep getting segregated in classes, there's

689
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: random attacks. The government isn't helping. Only community defense organizations

690
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: can help, which actually includes a decent number of non

691
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: Jewish Polish workers. The basically the hard work of the

692
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: boone kind of pays off here. Most of the socialist

693
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: workers in Poland don't go fascist. It's kind of a

694
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: terrible act of history that a lot of socialists went

695
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: fascist during the nineteen thirties. But the Polish support of

696
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: Jews was spotty, as we'll get too soon, and the

697
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: Jewish militias were often alone. But if nothing else, they

698
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: managed to kind of keep the numbers of their overt enemies,

699
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: that the fascists from shooting through the roof the boonest

700
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: militias they set up flying squads and they wait by

701
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: the phone ready to like run off in defense of

702
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: anyone who's being attacked. And at one point the Fascist Party.

703
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: There's a couple of Fascist party, but the ones that

704
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: are like we are the Fascist Party are called the

705
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: Phalanga and they they bombed the headquarters of the Boon.

706
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: They set a time bomb there, so Jewish and Polish

707
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: socialists march over to the Phalanga headquarters and smash up

708
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: the entire building and then beat the ship out of

709
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: everyone they find there nice and then there's another bulk

710
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: hero moment. This is the one that I doubt the most.

711
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know I've already decided

712
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: to believe it. I don't have a counter argument to this, Okay,

713
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: So it's it's there's this program in a nearby town

714
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: because a Jewish guy killed the Polish guy and I

715
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: SAIDMI has freaked out, and Bernard and someone else from

716
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: the Boon they go over there and they make contact

717
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: with the non Jewish socialists in that town, the Shoemaker's Union,

718
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: and they try to figure out how to stop the program.

719
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: And at one point, a right wing mob torches an

720
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: abandoned Jewish house. The people who lived there had gone

721
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: into hiding somewhere else, and the fire spreads to the

722
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: house next to it, which happens to be non Jewish,

723
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: and fucking Bernard runs into the burning building, gets the

724
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: kids out of the blaze, and then runs up to

725
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: the roof, being like, we need water, we need water,

726
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: come come fight this fire. And the crowd, which is

727
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: not the angry mob crowd that has moved on, this

728
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: is the crowd of like curious workers and ship. You know,

729
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: it's like, holy fuck a Polish houses on paraphrasing here,

730
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: holy fuck a Polish houses on fire. And this Jewish

731
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: guy saved everyone. Fuck the right wing, fuck the pogrom,

732
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: and Jews in town came out of their barricaded houses

733
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: and race relations were saved in the town. I absolutely

734
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: choose to believe that. I also have questions about how

735
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: he got off the roof. Yeah, I mean, it must

736
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: not have been that on fire or something, right, Like,

737
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: why would you run into a house save kids and

738
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: then run up to the maybe as okay, so he

739
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: he ran in, got the kids out, and then ran

740
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: back in just to get up on the roof and

741
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: yell yeah maybe or maybe he like passed the kids

742
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: out the second story window to people waiting below, or

743
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: like could be maybe tied bed sheets together to make

744
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: a rope just to go full. I don't know, but

745
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: what I do know. And then he got up there

746
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: on the roof and he was like a Buddhist on

747
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: the roof. It sounds crazy, you know, Sorry, there was

748
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: gonna be one fiddler on the roof reference in this portion,

749
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: Like I was, we weren't going to get away without one. Oh,

750
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: that's fair. And you know what else, we're not going

751
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: to get away with or get away without thanks? That

752
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: was that was really slick. Yeah, well what are we

753
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: advertising today, Margaret? Well, okay, so of course we are sponsored,

754
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: as always by the concept of potatoes and boil them,

755
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: mash him stick a ministe. Yeah, but what do you

756
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: what do you want to be sponsored by something that's

757
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: wholesome and not an actual product, oh um, or a

758
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: specific brand of a product. You know. I like music, okay,

759
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 1: the concept of of music of you know, sound played

760
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: for enjoyment and expression. Okay, So the early Quakers are

761
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: not sponsors today's podcast. Yeah, that's that's probably true, but

762
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: the modern Quakers could be. So we are sponsored by potatoes, music,

763
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: and all of these other things. And we are back.

764
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: And I've got one more story. I was a bunch

765
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: of stories, but one more of these specific ones. Six.

766
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: It's an election in Lots, which is a city that

767
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: I should have looked at. How to pronounce the second

768
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: biggest city in Poland. I think it's loads loads But

769
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm wrong, people can be mad at

770
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: me about it, getting mad at Miriam at I right, okay?

771
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: On Twitter? Yes, I was about to see the exact Okay,

772
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: so the Index they're the other fascist party. They're the

773
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: National Democrats and basically in loads, how did you say, Well,

774
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: I said loads, you know if you start saying it,

775
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: and then I turned out to be wrong, Like that's fine.

776
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: So the Index that the other fascist party, the National Democrats,

777
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: and they're basically like, if Jews show up to vote,

778
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: we'll fuck you up. And the Socialists they don't have

779
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: the numbers necessary to protect all the polling places or

780
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: to bring the fight to the enemy. So Bernard he

781
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: goes to the local Jewish crime lord. Who's this tiny, old,

782
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: wrinkly dude named mandel A, the King of the Strong

783
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: who rules a chunk of the underworld that is both

784
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: Jewish and Christian. These are fantastic right and these books

785
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: are not left wing. There their politics is I want

786
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: to be a crook, which I believe is its own

787
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: political affiliation. On the map then diagrams with a a lot

788
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: of other ones. Oh, for sure, you find crooks in

789
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: in most political affiliation. But yeah, I like when that's

790
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: just somebody's whole thing that tells you a lot about

791
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: where they'll go in any given situation. And this guy,

792
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: he's the king of the strong. He has such strong

793
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 1: control over the crooks that he's able to convince even

794
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: the Christians that they have to go fight to defend

795
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: the Jews. So the crooks and the socialist militia, the

796
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: latter mostly imported from from Warsaw. They're like, hey, fascists,

797
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: if you show up, we'll fuck you up. And it

798
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: probably would have been a fair fight right at that point,

799
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: because you've got kind of equal numbers. And do you

800
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: know what fascists think of fair fights, Miriam, I don't

801
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: think that's like their preferred approach. It's not so they

802
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: didn't show up. There's a few small fights here and there,

803
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: but basically, democracy and more importantly not fascism was protected

804
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: by a bunch of thieves who are just sucking rules.

805
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: I love that. And in case you're wondering, you know, like, oh,

806
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: maybe Comrade Bernard's getting too big for his britches, right,

807
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, roll on charisma and everything. Maybe

808
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: everyone knows. No, he's not making other people. He's throwing

809
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: down and fights. In his forties. At one point he

810
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: gets arrested while fighting and they're going to send him

811
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: to a concentration camp. And I really don't know what

812
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: that means in pre Nazi context U in Poland, I don't,

813
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. And but basically the head of the

814
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: BOOND just like you, You're not going to do that

815
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: to Bernard, And so it didn't happen. Um. And then

816
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: in this meeting, the chief of police is like, who's

817
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: in charge of Warsaw? You or me? Don't ask the questions.

818
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: You don't want to hear the answer. To their officer,

819
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: he did not want to know the answer to that question.

820
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: In in in case you think that there are a small faction.

821
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: By eight the anti Zionist secular socialist Boond was receiving

822
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority of all Jewish votes in Poland, Like

823
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: seventeen out of twenty seats were occupied that were occupied

824
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: by Jews. Are Buddhists? Hell yeah, And that's the story

825
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: before we get to the fucking German invasion in the

826
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: Warsaw ghetto. That's just some light context. To quote Bernard again,

827
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: it was at the highest point in the Jews climb

828
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: towards recognition as a human being with national and social

829
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: rights that Hitler struck him down. So this is a

830
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: whole war thing a World War a second one. On

831
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: September one nine, Germany invaded Poland again, and Poland is

832
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: way the Funk out matched the Boond and the Polish

833
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 1: Socialists they buddy up immediately in defense of the country.

834
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: The Boon tosses around the idea of telling the rest

835
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: of Warsaw, like, hey, we should resist as a city,

836
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: but they decide not to because they're like, we can't

837
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: get everyone killed, especially not as like the Jews, it

838
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: will go really badly. And also the Boon is like

839
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: kind of more strategic in its use of force than

840
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: a lot of the other political actors. It seems like, um,

841
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: this is not to say what was strategic or ethical

842
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: in this situation. This is just kind of what they

843
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: chose to do. Instead. The Boond kind of like fucked

844
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: of out of the city mostly and fought outside the

845
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: city and the resistance. Um, except then the rest of

846
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: Warsaw decided to resist the Nazis anyway, I think, spurred

847
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: on partly by the Polish socialists, and so then the

848
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: Boond also went and fought, and that whole thing, and

849
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: they get this besieged. Warsaw gets besieged and gets super

850
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: fucked up by the Germans. Things are looking dark for

851
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: our heroes. But then on September, a glimmer of light

852
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: in the north, like a dawn, like a red dawn.

853
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: The Soviets are coming. Surely they'll save us here in Poland.

854
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: I know you're never gonna say a good thing about Soviets.

855
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: I gotta find at some point, bake me out like that.

856
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: At some point, I'm gonna find some people Soviets, because

857
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: there are that the actual rank and individuals Soviets. For sure.

858
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: For sure, I just um when you when you use

859
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: it as a collective noun in that way, I just

860
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: don't believe you that there that anything is going to happen. No,

861
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: but the unfortunately the Polish resistance did look to the

862
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: Soviets coming and thought that they were there to help them.

863
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: But just kidding. The Soviets are allied with the Nazis.

864
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: There's this whole thing, the Molotov ribbon Trup packed where

865
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: Stalin and Hitler were. I guess Molotov and ribbon Trup

866
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: divvy up Poland like a turkey. Two years later, of course,

867
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: Germany invased the USSR and they become enemies. But at

868
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: the beginning of the war, Soviets are like a little

869
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 1: bit buds with the Nazis and go off and capture

870
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: some of Poland together, and the Polish Army was ordered

871
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: under orders not to fire on the Soviets because they

872
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: thought the Soviets would hopefully help them or save them.

873
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: Um I, Miriam, how old were you, Like I was

874
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: in my thirties before I realized that the Soviets started

875
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: off World War Two friendly with Germany. Um I was not.

876
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: I was, I was younger, but I I grew up

877
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: with a somewhat more direct connection to some of these issues.

878
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: And also, uh just I don't know, I think I

879
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: got quite a bit of World War two history and

880
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: in school, so yeah, that was something that I knew

881
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 1: that they had started out as allies at the Nazis

882
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: and then later on. It's it's funny because it's kind

883
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: of like, um, America, like America doesn't like to talk

884
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: about the fact that, um, the USSR was part of

885
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,959
Speaker 1: the allies later in the war. UM, and people who

886
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: like the USSR don't like to talk about the fact

887
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: that they were the allies of Nazi Germany early in

888
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: the war. So it's like, uh, just very uh very

889
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: an oddly touchy subject. The USSR was fighting on it

890
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: at any given time. Yeah, totally. And I think they

891
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: were like, not technically allies, but they were close enough

892
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: friends to invade a country together. Um, which is I mean,

893
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: if that's not ally ship, that's that's hashtag ally ship

894
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: right there. I was thinking more like friends with benefits

895
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: than partners. Sure, I don't know. Okay, So the Soviets

896
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: they capture and execute several prominent members of the booned

897
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: and the Polish Socialists. Uh later, Actually, the Nazis are

898
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: like storming around Warsaw trying to find this one particular

899
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: socialist socialist leader, thinking he escaped somehow with living underground,

900
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: but nope, the Soviets had already found and executed him.

901
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: I don't know my displeasure with the Soviet Union is

902
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: being adequately expressed on the show, Margaret, How do you

903
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: feel about state communism, everything Union in particular, Every single

904
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: time I research history that should have nothing to do

905
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: with the Bolsheviks. They're there as villains, not living up

906
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: to what they promised that they were supposed to be. Well,

907
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: they're like they're like the opposite of the Quakers. Who

908
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: keep popping up in near resons like pretty chill. Yeah, totally.

909
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: Um So the Soviets they rounded up and summarily executed

910
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: twenty two thou Polish officers, and what's called the Cayton Massacre.

911
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: They arrested at least a quarter of a million Polish

912
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: soldiers and sent like forty three thousand of these prisoners

913
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: to their friends with benefits the Nazis. I suspect that

914
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: this did not help the Polish resistance against Nazism. I

915
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: going out on a limb here. I'm not a historian.

916
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: It seems like starting out with the disadvantage, Yeah yeah,

917
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: so or saw scarcely withstands the siege from the Nazis,

918
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: and the whole city's fucked up as hell. Thirty thousand

919
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: people are killed, ten percent of the city is destroyed.

920
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: People are left carrying their water up from the river

921
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: and there's not enough fuel to boil the water. And

922
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: the Nazis immediately set to work turning the Poles against

923
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: the Jews, which was often easy to do in this

924
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: time period. They set up soup kitchens for our arians only,

925
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: and they encourage Poles to rat out any Jews they

926
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: find with the audacity to try and actually eat food.

927
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: And I'm going to skip some of the details about

928
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: some of the bad things, um, because I'm sensitive. But

929
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: right from the start they forced all the Jews to

930
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: register and go off and do slave labor in rotation.

931
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: They set up the Juden rot U din rot Uh,

932
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: which is ostensibly the self government of the Jewish people,

933
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: and immediately task it to build themselves a ghetto. One

934
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: of the members of the June Rat at this point

935
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: is a also a member of the boond Archer's Ego Boom,

936
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: and he just flatly refuses. He says, I'm gonna I

937
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: will fucking die before I help organize the building of

938
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: the ghetto, and he gives speeches publicly to this effect.

939
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: And this resistance from within the Judn Rat delays the

940
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: construction of the ghetto by by months. Uh. He might

941
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: not have been the only one to resist, but I'm

942
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: not I'm not sure, And I want to tell his

943
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: story really quickly because he's really cool. Archer's Ego Boom

944
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: was born in to a desperately poor Jewish family. He's

945
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: one of ten kids. By the time he's ten, he

946
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: was working in factories. I think g lovemaking factories, he

947
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 1: gets involved in labor organizing, he joins the boond and

948
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: soon he's part of the city government in the city

949
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: of lots Loads. When Germany invades, though, he leaves his

950
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: temporary safety and goes to Warsaw to help organize the defense.

951
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: In particular, his whole thing is he's coordinating between the

952
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: Jewish and the Polish militias to make sure that everyone's

953
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: fighting on the same side. And when Nazis to control

954
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: the city, they demanded twelve hostages from the city. They're like,

955
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: we want twelve of your high profile people so that

956
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: we can kill them if you all resist, right, and um,

957
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,720
Speaker 1: the mayor picks this, uh, this Jewish woman and Artur

958
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: volunteers in her stead like literally like straight uponer games.

959
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: It's just like, no, it's gonna be me. I'm going

960
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: to be the Nazis hostage. And then he's let out

961
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: after a bit after they released the hostages, I think,

962
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: and he posed the building of the ghetto and his

963
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: friends and family smuggle him out of the city because

964
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: he has been real public about this. And I watched

965
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: an interview with his cousin about about this. Part of

966
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: the Yiddish history project. He goes around Europe in the

967
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: US and he's trying desperately in Vain to convince the

968
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: world what's happening to the Jews in Nazi occupied territory.

969
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: Eventually he winds up in London and he joins an

970
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: advisory board of the Polish government in exile. There there's

971
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: actually this whole thing where the Polish government exile recognizes

972
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: the Jews substantially more than the Polish government, not an

973
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 1: act the resistance movement in Poland. And while he's off

974
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: doing this in in London, he's like, well, funck no,

975
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 1: I'm not organizing with Zionists, right, because this whole split

976
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 1: in the movement because he's a Buddhist. And then eventually,

977
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: after the word of the mass killings reached him, he's like,

978
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: you know what, we have bigger fucking problems. Uh. And

979
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: he works to get the Buddhist and the Zionist on

980
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: the same page, political disagreements being less pressing than stop genocide. Yeah,

981
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: And he does everything he can. He writes all the petitions,

982
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,959
Speaker 1: he gets audiences with all the world leaders, he talks

983
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: to all the press, he compiles all the data on

984
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: death camps, he gets all the numbers. His wife and

985
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: one of his kids are killed in Warsaw while he's gone. Ah,

986
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 1: he and others take massive risks to get this information out.

987
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: They smuggle a Polish socialist into the ghetto to get

988
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: information out, and no one will fucking listen. Sort of

989
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: skipping ahead on the timeline to tell his story, he

990
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: takes the only action he can think of left, and

991
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: he kills himself in protest of not only the Nazis

992
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: but the fucking Allies ignoring the plight of the Jews,

993
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: and he leaves a letter. The responsibility for the crime

994
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: of the murder of the whole Jewish nationality in Poland

995
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: rest first of all on those who are carrying it out,

996
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: but indirectly it falls also upon the whole of humanity,

997
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 1: on the peoples of the Allied nations, and on their governments,

998
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: who up to this day have not taken any real

999
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: steps to halt this crime. By looking on passively upon

1000
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: this murder of defenseless millions of tortured children, women and men,

1001
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: they have become partners to the responsibility. I am obliged

1002
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: to state that although the Polish government contributed largely to

1003
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: the arousing of public opinion in the world. It still

1004
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: did not do enough. It did not do anything that

1005
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: was not routine, that might have been approp it to

1006
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: the dimensions of the tragedy taking place in Poland. I

1007
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: cannot continue to live and to be silent while the

1008
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: remnants of Polish Jewelry, whose representative I am, are being murdered.

1009
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: My comrades in the Warsaw Ghetto fell with their arms

1010
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: in their hands in the last heroic battle. I was

1011
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: not permitted to fall like them together with them, but

1012
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: I belong with them to their mass grave. By my death,

1013
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: I wish to give expression to my most profound protest

1014
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: against the inaction in which the world watches and permits

1015
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,439
Speaker 1: the destruction of the Jewish people. And then he had

1016
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: his body cremated in solidarity with those who were killed

1017
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: in the camps. And I cried a lot well, right

1018
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: in this episode. UM, I mean, I'm I'm that's I'm

1019
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: glad that you read that. Um. It's one of the

1020
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: big lies of US history is that um America thought

1021
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: in World War Two in order to save the Jews. Yeah,

1022
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: um in America could not have given a fuck. Um. Yeah,

1023
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: it's um very you know it's powerful to hear a

1024
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: voice who was trying to get people to care at

1025
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, I correct me if I'm wrong, But

1026
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: it kind of feels like the only people were fighting

1027
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: for the Jews were the Jews and then some of

1028
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: the some of the leftists in various places. Yeah, I

1029
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: mean I think that's that's accurate. There were there were

1030
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: other people who were like helping and very I don't

1031
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: want to make a break state because there were there

1032
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: were people who were helping in various places and like

1033
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: for various ideologies and reasons, but like as far as um,

1034
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: it's like the most powerful world governments. No. Yeah. So

1035
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: there's one more thing I want to talk about today,

1036
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: which is there's an annoying question that goes around why

1037
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: didn't the Jews fight back? And Miriam, I think you've

1038
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: prepared something on that topic. Yeah. I kind of wanted

1039
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: to to have something to say to like the potential

1040
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: straw man there. Um. Yeah, because that that is a

1041
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: question that gets asked and like, I mean, obviously in

1042
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: the context of what what you have just said, the

1043
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: answer is they fucking did. Um. But I don't I

1044
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 1: also I don't think that that's like what people mean,

1045
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: they don't mean like, well, why weren't why didn't the

1046
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: bund as if people like know or care about the

1047
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: bund But um, you know, why why weren't there organized militias?

1048
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: You know, why weren't there things like that? I think

1049
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: they mean, like why didn't everybody fight back? You know,

1050
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: why didn't people being pushed into cattle cars fight back?

1051
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: Why didn't people being pushed into gas chambers? Fight back?

1052
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: And UM, I wanted to just like talk about that

1053
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: real quick, yeah, because this is brought up in sort

1054
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: of two overlapping contexts, both of which I really have

1055
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: a problem with. Um. And the first is just it's

1056
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: basic victim blaming. And I want to say, like we

1057
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: we talk about victim blaming a lot um in in

1058
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: our you know, like current conversation, and it's usually in

1059
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: the context of sexual assault. And when people talk about

1060
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: victim blaming, they imply that, like, the reason it's wrong

1061
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: is that it's it's cruel and harmful to the victim,

1062
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: which is absolutely true. Like that is one of the

1063
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,959
Speaker 1: reasons that's wrong. Um. But the real danger of victim

1064
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: blaming to me is less is more that it lets

1065
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: the real people responsible off the hook, UM, it misses

1066
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: the point about who and what actually causes harm. And

1067
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: here in this context, I'm not actually talking about the Nazis.

1068
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm talking about non Jews who could have fought back

1069
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: but didn't. UM. You know, and you you have obvious

1070
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: already talked in previous episodes about some non Jews who

1071
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: did fight back, and I know, you know we've started

1072
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: to talk about Jews who did as well, and I

1073
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: know we're going to talk about that more. But UM,

1074
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: that way of fighting, that like forming of small, dedicated

1075
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: groups that take up arms. That's like, that's what you

1076
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: do when there has not been a mass movement to

1077
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: protect you. UM. And there should have been a mass

1078
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: movement of non Jews opposing the Nazi targeting of everybody

1079
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: they targeted, and it was you know, these so called

1080
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: Aryan non Jews who were the people in Nazi Germany

1081
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: who actually had power. And if there had been a

1082
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: mass movement of such people opposing genocide, it would have worked.

1083
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: And I can I can actually offer like proof of that, um,

1084
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: anecdotal proof, UM, which is that in nine forty three,

1085
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: basically all of the Jews remaining in Berlin were arrested

1086
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred of them were Jewish men who were married

1087
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: to non Jewish women, and they were separated out and

1088
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: sent to a specific prison awaiting deportation, and their wives,

1089
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: their non Jewish wives came down to the street outside

1090
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: the prison, which is called the Rosenstrasse Um and said, hey,

1091
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:29,959
Speaker 1: give us back our goddamn husbands. And they refused to leave,

1092
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: and they ended up staging a large, non violent, very

1093
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: public demonstration just demanding their husbands back, and they had

1094
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: great popular support. Um despite the government basically trying to

1095
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: stop the word of this protest from getting out, despite

1096
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: the fact that it was happening during Allied bombing raids,

1097
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: and despite the fact that they were, you know, German

1098
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: women publicly talking about their marriages to Jewish men in

1099
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: people walking by joined in the protests. You know, women

1100
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: would have to go off to work or to take

1101
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: care of their children, and other women would come and

1102
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: take their place. And they just kept doing this until

1103
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: eventually the Nazi government gave them their husbands back. They

1104
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: literally released these people, including ones who had already been

1105
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: deported to to concentration camps, They brought them back and

1106
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: released them to their wives. It worked none of the

1107
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: women were attacked, arrested, or harmed in any way during

1108
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: these protests. So that's, you know, very cool and inspiring story. Um.

1109
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm absolutely respect and in awe of

1110
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: what those women did, but it also speaks very badly

1111
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: of every other German who could have done what these

1112
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: women did just as easily. Right. If they had cared

1113
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: as much about their neighbors as these women did about

1114
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: their husbands, they could have stopped a genocide. You know,

1115
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: if they had cared about the murders of Jews and

1116
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: roma everyone else, there would have been no Holocaust. And

1117
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: I mentioned you know that there were eighteen hundred men

1118
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: at Rosenstrasse were married to non Jews, but there were

1119
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: ten thousand Jewish Berliners who were arrested at that same time,

1120
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: and it was only those eighteen hundred men who were released.

1121
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: If Berlin had cared as much about all ten thousand,

1122
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: this would have been very different. And so the question

1123
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: to me isn't, well, why didn't the Jews fight back,

1124
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, the people who were already marginalized and under threat.

1125
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: It's why didn't everyone else, people who already had power

1126
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: and who the Nazi government would hesitate about slaughtering on

1127
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 1: mass Why didn't they step up? That's the question that

1128
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: we should be asking. And the other reason that the

1129
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to address about this question is

1130
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: the other place it gets brought up is in a

1131
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: Zionist context, which I think you've sort of alluded to

1132
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: a little bit. Zionists really like to set up a

1133
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: dichotomy between the brave, strong, fighting Israeli and like the meek,

1134
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: murderred diaspora jew which is a bullshit dichotomy, you know,

1135
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: partially because what Israel does is not fighting back. It's

1136
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: a colonial occupation that displaces murders in prisons and marginalizes

1137
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: Palestinians and then punishes them for fighting back. And partially

1138
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: because this dichotomy has victim blaming. And you know, I

1139
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: would argue internalized anti Semitism baked into it, and it's

1140
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: it's this, it's dismissive and disrespectful of actual Jewish history,

1141
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, portraying the diasporas nothing but oppression. And I

1142
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: love the diaspora, which is the source of my culture.

1143
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: Um and as much as Zionist don't want to admit it,

1144
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: it's Jewish history. It's most of Jewish history. UM. So

1145
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to say, you know, before we started,

1146
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 1: or you know, not before we start, but before we

1147
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: before we continued. Um. And Uh, the Jews who fought

1148
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: back were amazing. They were right to do so, but

1149
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: they should not be used as a weapon against people

1150
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: who were murdered by Nazis, which like feels almost too

1151
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: obvious to say, but you know, I'm saying it. Um.

1152
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: And I think that people sometimes have this thought, was like, well,

1153
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: they were ruined to die anyway, you know, so what

1154
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: do they have to lose by fighting back? And it's like,

1155
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, how about the possibility of survival? Um.

1156
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: Every member of my family who did survive the Holocaust

1157
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 1: did so by not fighting back. Um, you know, by

1158
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: just doing their best to stay alive or waiting for

1159
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: the chance to get away. Um. My great grandmother was

1160
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: able to save her daughter, my grandmother that way, along

1161
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: with several other women. UM. And I don't I think

1162
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: it's on anyone who hasn't been in a situation like

1163
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: that to to judge the decisions people made under that

1164
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 1: kind of threat. You know, I I love this history

1165
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: of resistance, but like I I'm aware of the ability

1166
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: of people to turn that history of resistance against against

1167
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,439
Speaker 1: victims of oppression, and uh, I'm not down with that.

1168
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to to make that really clear.

1169
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry because I talked for a long time

1170
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: and none of it was funny. I mean, you're the

1171
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: one who is a key is in me of being

1172
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: too serious. So you want me to tell another joke.

1173
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 1: You want me to tell another joke about anti Semitism.

1174
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: I can't say no. I feel like I have to

1175
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: say yes. But it's I'm gonna I'm gonna make awkward

1176
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: faces the whole time and then but yep, okay, please

1177
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: tell me a joke about anti Semitism. All right. So

1178
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: there's this uh, there's this town. There's got it's got

1179
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: one jew in it um and he's he's a merchant,

1180
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: he's a he sells ribbons door to door. And he

1181
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 1: knocks on this man's door and he says, hello, would

1182
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: you like to buy some ribbons today? I sell ribbons

1183
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: and the guy who was a total anti Semite is like,

1184
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'll buy some ribbons. I will buy as

1185
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: much ribbon as it takes to measure from your belly

1186
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: button to the tip of your penis. Get the funk

1187
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: out of here. And so he goes on. He's like okay,

1188
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: and he writes that down. He goes on his mary

1189
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: way and then the next day the anti Semite wakes

1190
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: up and there's a truck backing up to his house

1191
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: and he comes to the door and he's like, what

1192
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: is going on? And the ribbon merchant is there and

1193
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: it's like your delivery. You see, my belly button is

1194
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: right here. But I was circumcised in Poland that you

1195
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: said penis. I was like, this is a circumiance. Cut

1196
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: that one too. If you need to. I just had

1197
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: to break the tention. I simply will. All right, Well, uh,

1198
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for today. When we come

1199
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: back on Wednesday, we're going to talk about the ghetto

1200
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: itself and the resistance movements within it both, and you know,

1201
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll get to talk more about some of that

1202
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: stuff you're talking about about what resistance gets privileged and

1203
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: talked about, and what resistance doesn't you know? All right,

1204
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: final thoughts about oh yeah, yeah, thoughts, plugs, anything you

1205
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: wanna tell people about. I would like people to go

1206
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: find uh. I fact Fund on Twitter. Um, that's at

1207
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: I f A, k f U, n D and uh.

1208
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: I fact fund buys individual first aid kit for people,

1209
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 1: and if you send them a donation, they'll turn it

1210
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: into first aid kits and they'll put those in people's

1211
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: hands for free. And that's really helpful. Um, living as

1212
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: we do in a time where sudden horrible things happen often. Yea.

1213
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: And we'll be back Wednesday day, Yeah, yea. I promise

1214
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: I won't tell any more jokes. You can tell jokes.

1215
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't believe inappropriate humor is a coping strategy. I

1216
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: I really recommend it. I think this whole thing is

1217
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 1: a story about people holding onto culture. So see you, Wendy.

1218
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1219
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. More podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit

1220
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: our website cool zone Media dot com, or check us

1221
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: out on the I Heard Radio app, Apple podcast, or

1222
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. M HM