Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sports Bubble, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio Entree Fork Media. My name is Jensen Carp and
Speaker 1: I'm a sports fan and an amateur website refresher. I've
Speaker 1: never pressed F five more than I have over the
Speaker 1: past week. I'm hungry for updates as leads get ready
Speaker 1: for their comeback or fail miserably in the process. Someone
Speaker 1: on Twitter whispered the words Newton and the Patriots, and
Speaker 1: I was trying to get a verified confirmation of that
Speaker 1: miracle for the next hour. Seems like the Denver Nuggets
Speaker 1: of closed their practice facilities as coronavirus numbers are on
Speaker 1: the rise, and players like Ian Desmon are becoming vocal
Speaker 1: social activists with Instagram posts that will forever change our lives.
Speaker 1: For a time where there's very little sports being played,
Speaker 1: it sure feels like a lot is happening. So I
Speaker 1: continue to talk to athletes and sports industry professionals about
Speaker 1: what they're doing during this very weird time. Someone has
Speaker 1: to keep track. This is the Sports Bubble with Jensen
Speaker 1: cart The name Jerry Stackhouse is synonymous with basketball. He's
Speaker 1: considered to be one of the greatest players to everwhere
Speaker 1: in the North Carolina tar Heels Jersey, leading the team
Speaker 1: to the Final four in a season when he was
Speaker 1: named the National Player of the Year by Sports Illustrated
Speaker 1: and was a first team All American. And then well,
Speaker 1: he played eighteen seasons in the NBA. A first round
Speaker 1: draft pick by the Philadelphia seventies sixers, the hype around
Speaker 1: a player commonly referred to at the time as the
Speaker 1: next Jordan was deafening, and yet he somehow was able
Speaker 1: to deliver. With more than fifteen thousand career points, he
Speaker 1: was one of the decades premier offensive threats, averaging almost
Speaker 1: seventeen points a game in his career, and keep in
Speaker 1: mind that average is over almost twenty years, including a
Speaker 1: two thousand season in Detroit where he averaged twenty nine
Speaker 1: point eight and scored fifty seven against the Bulls. That's
Speaker 1: still a franchise record. He's a two time All Star
Speaker 1: who has now taken his career to the next step
Speaker 1: as the head coach of the Vanderbilt Commodores, an SEC
Speaker 1: basketball team with more attention than ever thanks to an
Speaker 1: impressive young roster and a high profile coach. On this episode,
Speaker 1: I talked to Jerry Stackhouse about recruiting in a pandemic,
Speaker 1: the possible racial bias he saw against teammate Alan Iverson,
Speaker 1: the difference between Michael Jordan and Lebron's leadership approach, and
Speaker 1: the video for de Las Souls stakes as high. It's
Speaker 1: a conversation with one of my favorite players of all
Speaker 1: time in the sports bubble, from Jerry Stackhouse, Headman's basketball
Speaker 1: coach at Vanderbill University, to accept press one Well, I
Speaker 1: wanted to start off by saying, I know some states
Speaker 1: have been loosening up, so I'm still asking people where
Speaker 1: you've been quarantined and with who I've been quarantined, mostly
Speaker 1: in Nashville. I've recently come to Atlanta as a home there,
Speaker 1: so I've been spending a little time they're trying to
Speaker 1: do a little spring cleaning, but other than that, I've
Speaker 1: been between those two places, Nashville and Atlanta. It is crazy, too,
Speaker 1: because when I started this podcast like three and a
Speaker 1: half months ago, it was such an easy question to
Speaker 1: ask where you quarantine, who you with, And now it
Speaker 1: feels like, even though every day we're learning that the
Speaker 1: numbers are higher and higher, we're all sort of just
Speaker 1: tiptoeing around. Is that how it feels in Atlanta as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels them, Yeah, in all those places. And man,
Speaker 1: just think we we almost feel like we live in
Speaker 1: a bubble that it's not really around us, and we're
Speaker 1: kind of moving our own space, feeling like, Okay, the
Speaker 1: COVID is over there, it's not where I'm at. We're
Speaker 1: seeing that the numbers are saying that that's not accurate,
Speaker 1: and we all probably need to be a little more
Speaker 1: careful than than what we are. But again, in the
Speaker 1: stake of trying to get things back to some normalcy
Speaker 1: that we all are trying probably trying to force this
Speaker 1: is you a little more than we should. I agree.
Speaker 1: It does feel like we're all sort of creating our
Speaker 1: own bubbles and trying to decide. You know, it's almost
Speaker 1: like we know the experts, we know the things that
Speaker 1: are happening, but also like every fifteen twenty minutes we're
Speaker 1: getting new information or being told certain things weren't right
Speaker 1: in the first place. And it's it's very hard to follow,
Speaker 1: no doubt. I mean, it's hard to figure out what's
Speaker 1: what's true and what's real. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: I gave us some, you know, some pretty standard things
Speaker 1: to do with the social distancing and you know, staying
Speaker 1: six feet I mean that really accurate. Should we should we?
Speaker 1: Should we be ten? Or are we safe to to
Speaker 1: be at three? So I just think it's, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: so much information coming in on a daily basis, but
Speaker 1: hopefully we all stay in tune and make sure that
Speaker 1: we And I like listening to Dr Faucci and the CDC,
Speaker 1: the folks that spent their whole life, you know, committed
Speaker 1: to these types of issues. So I think they're they're
Speaker 1: the experts, and hopefully everyone start trying to listen to
Speaker 1: them a little bit more. I'm in the same boat
Speaker 1: as you are. I wanted to know how you've been
Speaker 1: passing time. And there's a reason because considering since you
Speaker 1: were even before a teenager preteen, I'm not sure you've
Speaker 1: went longer than a few weeks your entire life off
Speaker 1: of a basketball court or something not related to basketball.
Speaker 1: Even when you were announcing what are you doing with
Speaker 1: out basketball in your life? Well, it still revolves around
Speaker 1: basketball for me. Now it's recruiting, being able to get
Speaker 1: on zoom calls and you know, with potential prospects and
Speaker 1: recruits as well as uh, communicating with our own guys,
Speaker 1: our current current guys, make sure that they're in a
Speaker 1: healthy mind state because it's so much going on like that.
Speaker 1: The COVID is one piece of it, but you know,
Speaker 1: with the social injustice things that are going on, things
Speaker 1: that are playing out, you know, right in front of
Speaker 1: our eyes. You know, it has everybody a little more
Speaker 1: conscious and a little more awake about, you know, things
Speaker 1: and what's going on. So I mean I've been I've
Speaker 1: been dealing with that, trying to figure out a way
Speaker 1: that I could you be impactful, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: I felt like I've always tried to use my platform
Speaker 1: to to give back and to be able to create
Speaker 1: opportunities for for people coming forward, you know, whether that's
Speaker 1: you know, African American, different different minorities, for women. You know,
Speaker 1: when you look across the my my roster of my staff,
Speaker 1: you see all you know, all ignis seas and I
Speaker 1: think that's the that's important. You know, people are just
Speaker 1: trying to make it a sexy thing to do right now,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think we all have to dig
Speaker 1: a little deeper and try to have an impact. And
Speaker 1: it's tough because I mean, with everything going on, it's
Speaker 1: just like I'm almost numb, like what what can I
Speaker 1: do to really have an impact. I'm looking for much
Speaker 1: of my mentors to say, Okay, this is the way
Speaker 1: that you know, we should you should try to proach things.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I know that people who
Speaker 1: that look to me for some of that same leadership
Speaker 1: and making sure that I'm giving them something to be
Speaker 1: able to grow with as well. So it's just just
Speaker 1: just challenging times right now. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, we hope that we will get back to
Speaker 1: basketball and get back to some normalcy and making sure
Speaker 1: that um mentally that we're you know, we're prepared to
Speaker 1: do so and talk to our guys, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to make sure that they're eating right and they're still
Speaker 1: working out, because okay, one day we're gonna come out
Speaker 1: of this is let's make sure that we're still ready
Speaker 1: to pick up and and you know from where we
Speaker 1: left off in the spring. Yeah, and and you you
Speaker 1: say that, but you know, it's difficult to keep NBA
Speaker 1: players in shape, fit and focused. I mean it's a
Speaker 1: little more difficult with students not being paid for their job.
Speaker 1: I mean, have you found it easy to keep tabs
Speaker 1: on your players. I mean, our guys are hungry, and
Speaker 1: I think that's the pro players and some of them,
Speaker 1: you know, they can take a stance of being more
Speaker 1: you know, drawing the line of being a little more
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it militant, but just being more proactive
Speaker 1: to the social issues that that are president right now,
Speaker 1: you know, more so than you know, the college kids can.
Speaker 1: I mean, they still have aspirations of obtaining that type
Speaker 1: of status of being able to play at that next level.
Speaker 1: So I think they're a little bit more you know,
Speaker 1: eager to play a little bit more eager to get
Speaker 1: back into the gym. But I think still just being
Speaker 1: smart with it and making sure that we're giving them
Speaker 1: all the information and more so than just the physical stuff,
Speaker 1: just to emotional support, just the mental support. And our
Speaker 1: guys have been in a good space. They've been doing
Speaker 1: a good job with our staff with player development sessions
Speaker 1: and making sure that they're able to divorce their opinion.
Speaker 1: And you know, we got our guys are eager. They're
Speaker 1: eager to get back to campus. They're eager to get
Speaker 1: back and have an impact to do whatever or protests
Speaker 1: and really smart kids. But now it's just about making shooting.
Speaker 1: They channel all of that energy and the passion that
Speaker 1: they have in the right direction. Yeah, and you brought
Speaker 1: up recruitment. I wanted to know with you head coaching
Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt. You guys announced a big signing with a
Speaker 1: four star prospect, Peyton Daniels last week, and I wonder
Speaker 1: how difficult recruiting has been for you during this completely
Speaker 1: new pandemic world. We have no real house visits, probably
Speaker 1: less scouting reports. You're depending on YouTube more. Do you
Speaker 1: feel fully equipped to do this as much as anybody else?
Speaker 1: You know, solid in charge at orders, unprecedented across the boards,
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, we have. You know, we've
Speaker 1: been really proactive and getting guys on on zoom calls
Speaker 1: and FaceTime, just making sure that we're connecting. Maybe even
Speaker 1: more so then we would if you know, everybody had
Speaker 1: a crack out of them. You know, Well, maybe it
Speaker 1: has a little bit of advantage because some of the
Speaker 1: guys that we've been on that we followed through the
Speaker 1: high school season, you know, a lot of other coaches
Speaker 1: hadn't been able to you know, really see these guys
Speaker 1: all spring. You know, most of these guys going into
Speaker 1: that senior year. You know, they kind of blow up
Speaker 1: guys that hadn't really been on the radar, you know,
Speaker 1: because they played all summer and that gained that momentum
Speaker 1: going into that senior year. And so I think there's
Speaker 1: some guys that are you know, floating under the radar,
Speaker 1: and hopefully, you know, that could kind of be an
Speaker 1: advantage for for us, because you know, we had to
Speaker 1: look at two components who don't just look at the
Speaker 1: you know, the athletic piece of it. The academic piece
Speaker 1: has to be important too. So we've identified guys that
Speaker 1: that fit the deal for us for what we want
Speaker 1: to have on the court. But even more important, you know,
Speaker 1: how are they're going to be able to function in
Speaker 1: a competitive environment, you know, academic as well. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know the way the NBA works nowadays, you can
Speaker 1: go for one season in of college, you can go overseas.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how much it comes up with these
Speaker 1: you know, high school seniors about expressing concern about the
Speaker 1: tournament being canceled again or not having the full college
Speaker 1: experience and looking to overseas and just get it done
Speaker 1: and get into the NBA. Are are you kind of
Speaker 1: fighting it a little harder than you used to because
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. Well, I think for some of these kids,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to be kind of in tune,
Speaker 1: you know, and just kind of here, not only just
Speaker 1: from them and their parents, but from from their support
Speaker 1: system and a you coach a different people around and
Speaker 1: you can get a feel of the ones that you
Speaker 1: feel that are trending into war possibly you know, skipping
Speaker 1: college completely. You know, the G League has offered a
Speaker 1: different opportunity for prospects to be able to maximize financially
Speaker 1: from revenue standpoint, right out of high school. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's important that we figure out this name,
Speaker 1: image and likeness in a situation sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1: So it's not that you know, we lose and you know,
Speaker 1: top talent to to the G League or or any
Speaker 1: other overseas. Other guys have been going overseas recently. But
Speaker 1: I think that that was kind of the the idea
Speaker 1: of the G League to make sure that there was
Speaker 1: an opportunity or where our talent you know, here in
Speaker 1: the US does not have to go abroad to still
Speaker 1: be able to continue to improve from the standpoint of
Speaker 1: the basketball skills, and and and and have an alternative,
Speaker 1: you know, other than college. I mean, and I'm cool
Speaker 1: with it, but I think that there's still enough student
Speaker 1: athletes and parents who want to college experience, who want
Speaker 1: an opportunity to you know, receive a you know, first
Speaker 1: class education as well as you know, compete at a
Speaker 1: high level, you know, like playing playing the power Fier,
Speaker 1: playing in then SEC. So there's always gonna be challenges,
Speaker 1: But I think at the same time, we've been trying
Speaker 1: to battan as well as we can. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: brought it up a little there during the pandemic. Some
Speaker 1: news did get a little buried that the n C
Speaker 1: double A looks like it's making you know, head room
Speaker 1: for college athletes to get paid for their likeness as
Speaker 1: someone who had their U and see jersey everywhere. Would you,
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think of that? Is that
Speaker 1: an ability you wish you had back when you saw
Speaker 1: it all over the place? Yeah? I won that. Can
Speaker 1: we go back, you know, get some more, uh, you
Speaker 1: know some of those royalties off of some of those
Speaker 1: for two jerseys that that was rolling around. But I
Speaker 1: just think it's we have to find a way to
Speaker 1: you know include players. I mean we're seeing it more
Speaker 1: and more. I mean, we're are kids, and whether football
Speaker 1: or basketball, at the end of the day, most of
Speaker 1: the student body is not back. But those you know,
Speaker 1: these guys are back because they understand the importance of
Speaker 1: sport and how a lot of you know, colleges and
Speaker 1: universities you know, rely on on that revenue. So I
Speaker 1: think we you know now, but up until this point
Speaker 1: has always been okay, it's the universities, the coaches that
Speaker 1: everybody else. Now it's it's some talk about how do
Speaker 1: we include the kids, how do we include the product?
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of smart people that if they
Speaker 1: really wanted to figure it out, I'm pretty sure we're
Speaker 1: getting to figure it out. Agreed. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: as a forty year old man who's still obsessed with
Speaker 1: NBA jerseys, yours was the first I own, the first
Speaker 1: professional jersey, and you had a wildly popular jersey, not
Speaker 1: only just because you were who you were, but I
Speaker 1: think the timing of rappers starting to wear jerseys and
Speaker 1: it becoming more of like a fashion trend happened at
Speaker 1: the same time you were drafted. Was that insane for
Speaker 1: you to see them everywhere is basically coming out of college.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and again it's like it's almost like that
Speaker 1: you expected somewhat because of the success of like you
Speaker 1: saw those nor tail anew jersey when you know, you
Speaker 1: walk in the foot locker and it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: my jersey the four too, but you know, and and actuality,
Speaker 1: there's really was no name on the back of it.
Speaker 1: So I think that's the kind of what you what
Speaker 1: you see and and but but for me, I'm just
Speaker 1: hoping that that let's figure out a way too to
Speaker 1: do it, because it's it's not hard, and I think
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of a lot of old rules
Speaker 1: that have been in place so long it's just time
Speaker 1: for them the change. I think we were seeing that
Speaker 1: with you know, just social injustice across the board and
Speaker 1: and believe me, a lot of the underlying issues we
Speaker 1: see there, you know, all started a long time ago
Speaker 1: with some of the same racial and social issues that
Speaker 1: we were dealing with back then and we're still facing
Speaker 1: right now. I want to ask about that, with the
Speaker 1: country focusing on the racial divide and racism and the
Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd, do you have a plan as
Speaker 1: a head coach with your athletes to talk about how
Speaker 1: they would protest or have their voice heard in college sports. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we're really listening to UH players and some
Speaker 1: of the things. I mean, I actually had an exercise
Speaker 1: where I've had them write a paragraph for as much
Speaker 1: as they wanted to about how they feel that they
Speaker 1: could be impactful. And we had some really good ideas
Speaker 1: from our kids and wanted to promote some grouts on
Speaker 1: the jumbo trying for games. Some wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, actually staging a protest or some sort. And
Speaker 1: I think that's where we helped them as adults. We
Speaker 1: allow them to be creative because they're really smart. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, they still need some guidance and
Speaker 1: they still need the belts to be able to help
Speaker 1: them set the table. But we have to listen to
Speaker 1: them and kind of left them, you know, steer the
Speaker 1: ship a little bits as we moved forward, because I
Speaker 1: just don't know if we change people who have been
Speaker 1: and just kind of ingraining them for most of their life.
Speaker 1: So where we have to do is try to educate
Speaker 1: this current group and the group that's coming after them.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what we want really see the
Speaker 1: significant change. And I was thinking from your perspective as well.
Speaker 1: You played with Alan Iverson on the Sixers, and I
Speaker 1: constantly think about him and how the NBA treated him
Speaker 1: in the prime of his career, whether it was the
Speaker 1: dress code that was thinly veiled attack on him, or
Speaker 1: photoshopping out his tattoos on media kits and just really
Speaker 1: like categorizing him as a thug. Did you guys all
Speaker 1: notice that when it was happening. Was that something that
Speaker 1: you guys were sort of cognitive of. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we were all cognitive of it, but I think there
Speaker 1: was at the same time we were cognitive who was
Speaker 1: the major sponsors of our league? And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: David Stern or I think he did a unbelievable job
Speaker 1: of marketing in the league. And I mean at the time,
Speaker 1: it felt like the best way to market our league
Speaker 1: and our players was to be able to you know,
Speaker 1: present as as professional Little did we know that that
Speaker 1: black culture, or the culture of hip hop was even
Speaker 1: more just does you know prevailing to to to a
Speaker 1: lot of kids as um, you know, seeing somebody you
Speaker 1: know walk up in a suit, I mean as a kid,
Speaker 1: I mean I enjoyed watching knowing that once I have
Speaker 1: become a professional and I could be like Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: and where for a suit to work. You know, not
Speaker 1: all kids had that same assurrations. Some guys, you know,
Speaker 1: some kids we want to do were baggae jeans and
Speaker 1: white T shirts with bandon in the corn rolls. That
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily me. You know, I grew up in the
Speaker 1: same neighborhoods as these kids. You know, we all just
Speaker 1: are different. And I think that that's what you know,
Speaker 1: Adam has embraced that, you know, tremenduster. Then guys be
Speaker 1: individual and you see where the Russell Westbrooks and the
Speaker 1: different guys not really taking it. You know, it's taking
Speaker 1: on a life of its own just from standpoint of
Speaker 1: a fashion, um to, where's something now that you know
Speaker 1: we're all proud of as opposed to years back that
Speaker 1: we just didn't feel like that was going to, you know,
Speaker 1: move the needle. As far as marketing, I playing, So
Speaker 1: I have no fault with with David cern and his
Speaker 1: thought process. At that time, um it felt a little yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean you're looking at it in now where where
Speaker 1: everything that's going on. You could almost say it just
Speaker 1: felt somewhere in racial but at that time being a
Speaker 1: part of it. And I was like, Okay, we were
Speaker 1: coming from a bad place in a late seventies early
Speaker 1: eighties where we were was thought of as a drug
Speaker 1: league and you know with you know, cocaine, you know,
Speaker 1: running the rampid within our league. So there was had
Speaker 1: to be some some efforts to clean that up. And
Speaker 1: I think, uh, we cleaned that up and came one
Speaker 1: of the eight to tame billion dollar industry. So you've
Speaker 1: got to get credit whereas due. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I think it's we're seeing now that that could have
Speaker 1: been a little bit more balanced there. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: also want to go on record, I'm not proud of
Speaker 1: all of Westbrooks outfits. I'm proud of some of them. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, just as long as we're on the same page. Uh,
Speaker 1: you left U n C early for the draft, but
Speaker 1: you promised your mom and Dean Smith you would graduate
Speaker 1: what you did. You had a degree in African American studies.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that a lot of
Speaker 1: Americans are surprised by, especially white America, is just the
Speaker 1: like the whitewashing of our mainstream history books. Most people
Speaker 1: had never heard of Juneteenth until an episode of Atlanta
Speaker 1: or this past week, or the Tulsa massacre until they
Speaker 1: saw it on Watchman on HBO. With your education and
Speaker 1: with your background in in sort of this subject, how
Speaker 1: could this be changed? Is this Is this the time
Speaker 1: that we finally get a middle school with Juneteenth in
Speaker 1: their history book? Is that possible now? I hope? So,
Speaker 1: I hope that's the next phase of bringing together one
Speaker 1: history book. I think there's been a push for pop
Speaker 1: to try to promote, you know, more African American history books,
Speaker 1: and I pushed against that. I'd rather be a combination
Speaker 1: of our history, you know, and to the point that
Speaker 1: we're it's all combined. I mean, if we really tell
Speaker 1: the true story, I mean, we know the story that
Speaker 1: we were at about sixteen twenty Christopher Columbus coming over
Speaker 1: on the mayfly and all that, but they need to
Speaker 1: talk about what, you know, what really happened, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, How when they came over on and
Speaker 1: make ship, what did they do? Who did they take
Speaker 1: it away from? So I think when we, you know,
Speaker 1: stop trying to hide behind all of that and really
Speaker 1: tell tell the truth, and we'll be able to really
Speaker 1: embrace the history from both sides. When you were in
Speaker 1: college and you were learning that stuff, did you have
Speaker 1: these eye opening moments the kind of the rest of
Speaker 1: America's having now with Juneteenth and these sort of terms
Speaker 1: and things that you guys have faced as a race man,
Speaker 1: I never heard of Juneteenth until about, you know, two
Speaker 1: weeks ago, I mean honestly, and I just never something
Speaker 1: that was wasn't in the history books that I read.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the it, that's the problem. You know.
Speaker 1: I can, you know, I can. I can sing the
Speaker 1: gingue right now in my head the year sixteen twenty,
Speaker 1: the fields came over the good ship made flower brought
Speaker 1: them across the seat. That was the thing that they
Speaker 1: were being brandon In my head, that was, you know
Speaker 1: not it should not be a proud part of our history.
Speaker 1: More with former NBA star and current Vanderbilt men's basketball
Speaker 1: head coach Jerry Stackhouse after this right now, Feeding America
Speaker 1: is working tirelessly to ensure our most vulnerable populations, like
Speaker 1: students who are out of school, the elderly individuals whose
Speaker 1: jobs are impacted, and low income families continue to have
Speaker 1: access to food and other needed resources during the COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen pandemic. The Feeding America Food Bank Network is committed
Speaker 1: to serving communities and people facing hunger in America, and
Speaker 1: their greatest need is donations and support of local food banks.
Speaker 1: This podcast is committed to donating a portion of the
Speaker 1: proceeds from the show to Feeding America and we hope
Speaker 1: that you can join us in this effort to find
Speaker 1: out how you can help Feeding America dot org backslash
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. Now back to my chat with the Great
Speaker 1: Jerry Stackhouse. You've got some headlines this past month about
Speaker 1: playing with with Michael Jordan's during his Wizard come back,
Speaker 1: and I know you you've got a much older version
Speaker 1: of him, but but I wanted to know, as someone
Speaker 1: who played with m j and Lebron, what were the
Speaker 1: biggest differences in their abilities to lead when you compare them. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's I mean, it's just different leadership style
Speaker 1: and it's no one way. And I think that you know,
Speaker 1: Michael was just you know, he was driven them and
Speaker 1: he pushed them alope, pushed it hard and it was
Speaker 1: just like it was almost manic at highly approached things.
Speaker 1: And I think Lebrone was the same way, but he
Speaker 1: just decided to have a little more fun, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean he was and I played played with him
Speaker 1: and just you know, seeing him in practice and he
Speaker 1: was just he was jovial. I mean when when the
Speaker 1: lights came home, did he lock in and he gets
Speaker 1: series a losie. But I mean he wanted to enjoy
Speaker 1: his teammates. You want to enjoy his experience. And I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, it shows that both ways can work.
Speaker 1: Obviously has tremendous success and probably you know, Argaly one
Speaker 1: of the greatest players in the history of the game.
Speaker 1: But I think Michael, you know, his his fans is like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know you want to be starching and everything that
Speaker 1: you do, you just want to be driven and and
Speaker 1: and he showed that to the point of um sometimes
Speaker 1: alien ag and some teammates or you know, even in
Speaker 1: some ways maybe abuses them. So the teammates. But I
Speaker 1: think depending on your perspective or who you're a fan of,
Speaker 1: your kind of side on one way at the other,
Speaker 1: would you say you were friends with Lebron and would
Speaker 1: you say you were friends with Jordan when you played
Speaker 1: with him? Yes, yeah, I was friends with both. I
Speaker 1: mean I think I spent time spent you know, I
Speaker 1: had dinners with Lebron and his his crew, uh and
Speaker 1: and you know, Michael and kind of this his entourage,
Speaker 1: the guys that I was there with him. You know,
Speaker 1: we went to Benner and we've you know, we've enjoyed
Speaker 1: each other and enjoy company and our time together, you know,
Speaker 1: on the court. And I think people tend to think
Speaker 1: that that goes together just because you don't have and
Speaker 1: that's a great chemistry on the court, doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you you know, we're are arrivals and just couldn't couldn't
Speaker 1: get along and have dinner and have last or you know,
Speaker 1: go up to his room and play cards or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know. I just think when you speak honestly, I mean,
Speaker 1: most people just try to lie because of players, you know,
Speaker 1: great players and icon and plays, and they just want
Speaker 1: to make sure that they don't go against the narrative
Speaker 1: of what they think that those icons want to hear.
Speaker 1: But I can only speak my truth and what I saw,
Speaker 1: my perspective, what happened, and that's the truth I'm gonna
Speaker 1: always tell. Sure, Well, you're now coaching Scottie Pippen Jr.
Speaker 1: And I figured that has to be an honor for
Speaker 1: Scotty Senior to respect your game enough to encourage his
Speaker 1: son to attend the school and learn under you. Is
Speaker 1: that is that something you kind of took as a
Speaker 1: as an honor? You know, Scotty has always been a
Speaker 1: big stand man. I mean, you know when he was
Speaker 1: on the ESPN and I was up for him, you
Speaker 1: know from NBA job Scott he was always really pushing
Speaker 1: because he did see me work, It's seen my my
Speaker 1: path and kind of grinded to get to that point.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden I get the jobs
Speaker 1: and the building was going to find out that this
Speaker 1: sun that committed. So I was like, obviously he could
Speaker 1: have laughed and went anywhere that he wanted to because
Speaker 1: it was a coaching change. But you know, it was like, uh,
Speaker 1: this was you know perfect for my son. And then
Speaker 1: for him to come in and have the year that
Speaker 1: he had last year, um when you know, not being
Speaker 1: on anybody really radar, you know, but I think he
Speaker 1: was you know, three started, Maybe he wasn't on any
Speaker 1: preseason you know, NCC freshman team, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden he comes in and make all freshman team and
Speaker 1: he learned so much and I just I think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be really, really good. I'm hoping he gets those
Speaker 1: side inches in between his freshman and sophomore year like
Speaker 1: scott He did. And if that happens, then it's a
Speaker 1: rap because he's a mean he has pro talent, and
Speaker 1: I just think that's what once his body catches up
Speaker 1: with the You know, you see Scottie Jr. Playing the
Speaker 1: pose as well. I love it. I've loved watching him
Speaker 1: on YouTube. You had a Vanderbilt player Aaron Nay Smith
Speaker 1: who declared for the NBA. He's likely a lottery pick, uh,
Speaker 1: And you hope for guys like him that these late
Speaker 1: leagues get back into shape after COVID. We are talking
Speaker 1: a day, a couple of hours after DeAndre Jordan has
Speaker 1: come out as positive to COVID. Spencer Dinwiddle as well,
Speaker 1: these they're dropping pretty much a couple of day out
Speaker 1: of the league because of it. When you read these
Speaker 1: Disney World plans and positive tests, would you feel comfortable
Speaker 1: if you were still playing in the NBA to to
Speaker 1: to join this season, Well, I just know the importance
Speaker 1: of um playing the season. I think that's what these
Speaker 1: guys have to understand not only just the emotion and
Speaker 1: everything that goes on. It was just as a clause
Speaker 1: is in the contract that collected collectively bargain contract that
Speaker 1: that they don't play the season, and as an opportunity
Speaker 1: FORLIDA to really open up everything and could change the
Speaker 1: same es and everything as far as how do you've
Speaker 1: got to go moving forward? So you know, it's just
Speaker 1: more the Yeah, there's some risks here, and I think
Speaker 1: that on the league. You know Adam, you know, he's
Speaker 1: working on some of the foremost scientists and doctors to
Speaker 1: make sure that they're trying to cover as many basis
Speaker 1: as they can. I mean, you hear these you know, one,
Speaker 1: two off, maybe even three cases of COVIE. I mean
Speaker 1: that that's expected. We understand that, and it's just about
Speaker 1: how do we navigate around it. And it's just I mean,
Speaker 1: the reality of it is, you know, in the finals,
Speaker 1: if Lebon James gets to COVID, you know more, he's
Speaker 1: not gonna He's not gonna finish the finals. But I
Speaker 1: think it's it's still worth getting back out there and
Speaker 1: trying to do it because the whole as much greater
Speaker 1: than the parts. Yeah, that that contract is something that
Speaker 1: comes up and has to be thought of, obviously beyond
Speaker 1: a lot of just the sickness questions. But I guess
Speaker 1: we usually end with something a little more serious and
Speaker 1: something very stupid. But my stupid one this week, I
Speaker 1: feel like it might be pretty important. But I want
Speaker 1: to know when when you're coaching these these kids, they
Speaker 1: have the rare opportunity to play with one of the
Speaker 1: best players, in my opinion of all time incredible basketball
Speaker 1: player in Jerry Stackhouse. What is the question they ask
Speaker 1: you the most about your NBA experience? What is what
Speaker 1: is it from your life that you're questioned, uh the
Speaker 1: most about by the players? Um no, man, I think
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's different. Kids have different questions, and
Speaker 1: the guys actually want to understand, you know, how I
Speaker 1: played so long. You know, I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the things I talked about. You know, it was because
Speaker 1: I was able to you know, reinvent myself. I came
Speaker 1: in as a high draft pick, you know, as a
Speaker 1: young star in the league, became an All Star and
Speaker 1: then doing even doing the next phase in my career.
Speaker 1: I been you know, came off the bench, you know,
Speaker 1: had different roles as of a locker room guy, even
Speaker 1: though I still played, you know, my final year, but
Speaker 1: I was really brought in to be a more of
Speaker 1: a mentor for for younger guys. So I think that's
Speaker 1: the way you have longevity and to continue to reinvent
Speaker 1: yourself and not get so locked in and as I'm this,
Speaker 1: so I'm that you could be this, so you could
Speaker 1: be that right now, but I know that you know
Speaker 1: that that can change. Unfortunately, in basketball and professional sports,
Speaker 1: they all fungible assects. You know that the new ones
Speaker 1: are coming eventually, so no matter how long you go.
Speaker 1: And I was able to play eighteen years, then it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, set the record of playing twenty two, but
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the twenty two is over.
Speaker 1: That's not that's not fair to compare. He's not a
Speaker 1: human being, that's a that's an actual robot that you're
Speaker 1: comparing yourself to her. Man, it's eighteen and a whole
Speaker 1: lot long way from twenty two, not at all, not
Speaker 1: at all. And then I think it's just as a mindset,
Speaker 1: I was ready to go on to the next stage.
Speaker 1: I feel like I probably could have played four more
Speaker 1: years and in a similar role that he he did,
Speaker 1: but it was more about probably trying to win him.
Speaker 1: He really embraced us, you know, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would have had as much interest playing for
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Hawks at that stage in my career, specially
Speaker 1: the fact that neither one of us was able to
Speaker 1: win a championship. You know, it got close, but still
Speaker 1: I would have been trying to still strive to to
Speaker 1: get a ring. But to each his own. I think
Speaker 1: what he did and how he mentored those young guys
Speaker 1: is admirable and obviously doesn't do anything to tarnishes you know,
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame career by standpoint. Sure. Well. Lastly, as
Speaker 1: a hip hop head, I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 1: something that I think about all the time, which is
Speaker 1: one of the greatest rap songs of all time, day
Speaker 1: Law Soul Stakes. As high you show up in the
Speaker 1: video you played basketball against day Law. What what do
Speaker 1: you remember from that day of shooting? What's a classic
Speaker 1: music video? Man? I just remember it was fun just
Speaker 1: being able to note that I kind of arrived here.
Speaker 1: I come from, you know, a country boy from North
Speaker 1: Carolina to now I'm in a Dayline Soul video and
Speaker 1: it was cool. Man. I got a chance to meet
Speaker 1: those guys and you know, I met Common. He was
Speaker 1: just he was a young guy in the rap game
Speaker 1: at the time and we just started ying and you
Speaker 1: see how his ca real is taken off and the
Speaker 1: note that you you know, for relationships with guys, there's
Speaker 1: so many different Basketball has brought a lot of people together.
Speaker 1: But it was definitely fun. Man. I can look back
Speaker 1: and see myself with it with a little bit of hair.
Speaker 1: It's always cool to look back and reflect them. Well,
Speaker 1: we were all watching it. We're in your jersey, Jerry.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for talking to me, and stay safe
Speaker 1: and uh look forward to seeing your team back out
Speaker 1: on the court. Thank you, man, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: The Sports Bubble is produced and distributed by tree Fort Media.
Speaker 1: The show was executive produced by Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman,
Speaker 1: Matthew Coogler, and me Jensen Carr. Tom Monahan is our
Speaker 1: senior audio engineer and sound supervisor, with production and editing
Speaker 1: by Jasper Leek additional production help from Tim Shower, June Rosen,
Speaker 1: and Hayley Mandelberg. Our theme music is composed by spilkis.
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