WEBVTT - Jerry Stackhouse 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome to the Sports Bubble, a production of I Heart 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:14.159 Radio Entree Fork Media. My name is Jensen Carp and 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.720 I'm a sports fan and an amateur website refresher. I've 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.520 never pressed F five more than I have over the 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.239 past week. I'm hungry for updates as leads get ready 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.520 for their comeback or fail miserably in the process. Someone 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.200 on Twitter whispered the words Newton and the Patriots, and 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.000 I was trying to get a verified confirmation of that 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.960 miracle for the next hour. Seems like the Denver Nuggets 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.839 of closed their practice facilities as coronavirus numbers are on 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.520 the rise, and players like Ian Desmon are becoming vocal 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:42.080 social activists with Instagram posts that will forever change our lives. 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:44.600 For a time where there's very little sports being played, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.080 it sure feels like a lot is happening. So I 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.240 continue to talk to athletes and sports industry professionals about 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.080 what they're doing during this very weird time. Someone has 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.120 to keep track. This is the Sports Bubble with Jensen 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:03.480 cart The name Jerry Stackhouse is synonymous with basketball. He's 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.520 considered to be one of the greatest players to everwhere 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:07.960 in the North Carolina tar Heels Jersey, leading the team 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.560 to the Final four in a season when he was 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.720 named the National Player of the Year by Sports Illustrated 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.920 and was a first team All American. And then well, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.640 he played eighteen seasons in the NBA. A first round 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.480 draft pick by the Philadelphia seventies sixers, the hype around 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.440 a player commonly referred to at the time as the 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.559 next Jordan was deafening, and yet he somehow was able 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.680 to deliver. With more than fifteen thousand career points, he 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.760 was one of the decades premier offensive threats, averaging almost 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.240 seventeen points a game in his career, and keep in 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.760 mind that average is over almost twenty years, including a 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.480 two thousand season in Detroit where he averaged twenty nine 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.520 point eight and scored fifty seven against the Bulls. That's 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.920 still a franchise record. He's a two time All Star 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:49.840 who has now taken his career to the next step 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.720 as the head coach of the Vanderbilt Commodores, an SEC 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.320 basketball team with more attention than ever thanks to an 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.720 impressive young roster and a high profile coach. On this episode, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.440 I talked to Jerry Stackhouse about recruiting in a pandemic, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.600 the possible racial bias he saw against teammate Alan Iverson, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.239 the difference between Michael Jordan and Lebron's leadership approach, and 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.000 the video for de Las Souls stakes as high. It's 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.120 a conversation with one of my favorite players of all 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:27.960 time in the sports bubble, from Jerry Stackhouse, Headman's basketball 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.639 coach at Vanderbill University, to accept press one Well, I 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.560 wanted to start off by saying, I know some states 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.240 have been loosening up, so I'm still asking people where 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.160 you've been quarantined and with who I've been quarantined, mostly 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:46.280 in Nashville. I've recently come to Atlanta as a home there, 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.360 so I've been spending a little time they're trying to 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.720 do a little spring cleaning, but other than that, I've 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.960 been between those two places, Nashville and Atlanta. It is crazy, too, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.600 because when I started this podcast like three and a 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.520 half months ago, it was such an easy question to 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.960 ask where you quarantine, who you with, And now it 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.400 feels like, even though every day we're learning that the 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.280 numbers are higher and higher, we're all sort of just 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.639 tiptoeing around. Is that how it feels in Atlanta as well. Yeah, 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.240 it feels them, Yeah, in all those places. And man, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.520 just think we we almost feel like we live in 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.799 a bubble that it's not really around us, and we're 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.840 kind of moving our own space, feeling like, Okay, the 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.320 COVID is over there, it's not where I'm at. We're 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.639 seeing that the numbers are saying that that's not accurate, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.680 and we all probably need to be a little more 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.160 careful than than what we are. But again, in the 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.240 stake of trying to get things back to some normalcy 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.560 that we all are trying probably trying to force this 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.840 is you a little more than we should. I agree. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:42.640 It does feel like we're all sort of creating our 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.960 own bubbles and trying to decide. You know, it's almost 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.640 like we know the experts, we know the things that 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.240 are happening, but also like every fifteen twenty minutes we're 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.200 getting new information or being told certain things weren't right 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.440 in the first place. And it's it's very hard to follow, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.000 no doubt. I mean, it's hard to figure out what's 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.680 what's true and what's real. I mean, like I said, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.040 I gave us some, you know, some pretty standard things 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.960 to do with the social distancing and you know, staying 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.600 six feet I mean that really accurate. Should we should we? 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.000 Should we be ten? Or are we safe to to 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.600 be at three? So I just think it's, uh, you know, 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.800 so much information coming in on a daily basis, but 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.240 hopefully we all stay in tune and make sure that 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.599 we And I like listening to Dr Faucci and the CDC, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.320 the folks that spent their whole life, you know, committed 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.200 to these types of issues. So I think they're they're 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.440 the experts, and hopefully everyone start trying to listen to 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.440 them a little bit more. I'm in the same boat 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.760 as you are. I wanted to know how you've been 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.360 passing time. And there's a reason because considering since you 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.240 were even before a teenager preteen, I'm not sure you've 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.000 went longer than a few weeks your entire life off 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.560 of a basketball court or something not related to basketball. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.839 Even when you were announcing what are you doing with 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.240 out basketball in your life? Well, it still revolves around 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.640 basketball for me. Now it's recruiting, being able to get 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.840 on zoom calls and you know, with potential prospects and 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:14.080 recruits as well as uh, communicating with our own guys, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.159 our current current guys, make sure that they're in a 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.400 healthy mind state because it's so much going on like that. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.800 The COVID is one piece of it, but you know, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.480 with the social injustice things that are going on, things 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.200 that are playing out, you know, right in front of 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.880 our eyes. You know, it has everybody a little more 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:35.120 conscious and a little more awake about, you know, things 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.240 and what's going on. So I mean I've been I've 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.800 been dealing with that, trying to figure out a way 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 that I could you be impactful, you know. You know, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.600 I felt like I've always tried to use my platform 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.239 to to give back and to be able to create 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.760 opportunities for for people coming forward, you know, whether that's 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.960 you know, African American, different different minorities, for women. You know, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.360 when you look across the my my roster of my staff, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.520 you see all you know, all ignis seas and I 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.320 think that's the that's important. You know, people are just 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.400 trying to make it a sexy thing to do right now, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.800 but you know, I think we all have to dig 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.160 a little deeper and try to have an impact. And 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.240 it's tough because I mean, with everything going on, it's 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.039 just like I'm almost numb, like what what can I 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.599 do to really have an impact. I'm looking for much 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.880 of my mentors to say, Okay, this is the way 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.480 that you know, we should you should try to proach things. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.000 And at the same time, I know that people who 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.880 that look to me for some of that same leadership 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.839 and making sure that I'm giving them something to be 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.680 able to grow with as well. So it's just just 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.480 just challenging times right now. But at the end of 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.520 the day, we hope that we will get back to 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.520 basketball and get back to some normalcy and making sure 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.680 that um mentally that we're you know, we're prepared to 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.440 do so and talk to our guys, you know, trying 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.640 to make sure that they're eating right and they're still 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.080 working out, because okay, one day we're gonna come out 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:57.800 of this is let's make sure that we're still ready 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.640 to pick up and and you know from where we 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.240 left off in the spring. Yeah, and and you you 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.599 say that, but you know, it's difficult to keep NBA 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.840 players in shape, fit and focused. I mean it's a 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.840 little more difficult with students not being paid for their job. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.920 I mean, have you found it easy to keep tabs 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.840 on your players. I mean, our guys are hungry, and 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:20.080 I think that's the pro players and some of them, 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.960 you know, they can take a stance of being more 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.840 you know, drawing the line of being a little more 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.720 I wouldn't call it militant, but just being more proactive 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.560 to the social issues that that are president right now, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.480 you know, more so than you know, the college kids can. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.119 I mean, they still have aspirations of obtaining that type 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.400 of status of being able to play at that next level. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.760 So I think they're a little bit more you know, 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.960 eager to play a little bit more eager to get 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.240 back into the gym. But I think still just being 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.880 smart with it and making sure that we're giving them 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.600 all the information and more so than just the physical stuff, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.400 just to emotional support, just the mental support. And our 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.480 guys have been in a good space. They've been doing 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.600 a good job with our staff with player development sessions 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.160 and making sure that they're able to divorce their opinion. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.640 And you know, we got our guys are eager. They're 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.600 eager to get back to campus. They're eager to get 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.920 back and have an impact to do whatever or protests 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.960 and really smart kids. But now it's just about making shooting. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.040 They channel all of that energy and the passion that 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.320 they have in the right direction. Yeah, and you brought 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.560 up recruitment. I wanted to know with you head coaching 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.800 at Vanderbilt. You guys announced a big signing with a 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.880 four star prospect, Peyton Daniels last week, and I wonder 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.680 how difficult recruiting has been for you during this completely 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.760 new pandemic world. We have no real house visits, probably 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.600 less scouting reports. You're depending on YouTube more. Do you 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.160 feel fully equipped to do this as much as anybody else? 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.720 You know, solid in charge at orders, unprecedented across the boards, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.200 So I think, you know, we have. You know, we've 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.480 been really proactive and getting guys on on zoom calls 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.800 and FaceTime, just making sure that we're connecting. Maybe even 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.199 more so then we would if you know, everybody had 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.559 a crack out of them. You know, Well, maybe it 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.200 has a little bit of advantage because some of the 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.839 guys that we've been on that we followed through the 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.360 high school season, you know, a lot of other coaches 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.440 hadn't been able to you know, really see these guys 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.120 all spring. You know, most of these guys going into 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.560 that senior year. You know, they kind of blow up 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.760 guys that hadn't really been on the radar, you know, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.760 because they played all summer and that gained that momentum 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.120 going into that senior year. And so I think there's 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.440 some guys that are you know, floating under the radar, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.320 and hopefully, you know, that could kind of be an 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.240 advantage for for us, because you know, we had to 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.200 look at two components who don't just look at the 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.520 you know, the athletic piece of it. The academic piece 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.720 has to be important too. So we've identified guys that 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.960 that fit the deal for us for what we want 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.880 to have on the court. But even more important, you know, 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.960 how are they're going to be able to function in 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.640 a competitive environment, you know, academic as well. Yeah, and 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.679 you know the way the NBA works nowadays, you can 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.560 go for one season in of college, you can go overseas. 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.920 And I'm wondering how much it comes up with these 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.960 you know, high school seniors about expressing concern about the 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.520 tournament being canceled again or not having the full college 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.280 experience and looking to overseas and just get it done 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.320 and get into the NBA. Are are you kind of 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.440 fighting it a little harder than you used to because 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.680 of the pandemic. Well, I think for some of these kids, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.560 and I think you have to be kind of in tune, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.720 you know, and just kind of here, not only just 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.840 from them and their parents, but from from their support 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.000 system and a you coach a different people around and 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:33.800 you can get a feel of the ones that you 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.880 feel that are trending into war possibly you know, skipping 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.480 college completely. You know, the G League has offered a 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:46.800 different opportunity for prospects to be able to maximize financially 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.280 from revenue standpoint, right out of high school. So I think, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.680 you know, it's it's important that we figure out this name, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.840 image and likeness in a situation sooner rather than later. 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.600 So it's not that you know, we lose and you know, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.040 top talent to to the G League or or any 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.679 other overseas. Other guys have been going overseas recently. But 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.360 I think that that was kind of the the idea 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:11.760 of the G League to make sure that there was 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.520 an opportunity or where our talent you know, here in 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.880 the US does not have to go abroad to still 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.880 be able to continue to improve from the standpoint of 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.360 the basketball skills, and and and and have an alternative, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.640 you know, other than college. I mean, and I'm cool 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.640 with it, but I think that there's still enough student 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.320 athletes and parents who want to college experience, who want 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.319 an opportunity to you know, receive a you know, first 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.920 class education as well as you know, compete at a 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.520 high level, you know, like playing playing the power Fier, 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.480 playing in then SEC. So there's always gonna be challenges, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.640 But I think at the same time, we've been trying 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.960 to battan as well as we can. Yeah, and you 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:52.880 brought it up a little there during the pandemic. Some 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:54.480 news did get a little buried that the n C 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.840 double A looks like it's making you know, head room 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.000 for college athletes to get paid for their likeness as 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.080 someone who had their U and see jersey everywhere. Would you, 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:03.880 I mean, what do you think of that? Is that 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.120 an ability you wish you had back when you saw 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.560 it all over the place? Yeah? I won that. Can 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:14.520 we go back, you know, get some more, uh, you 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.640 know some of those royalties off of some of those 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.760 for two jerseys that that was rolling around. But I 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.880 just think it's we have to find a way to 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.600 you know include players. I mean we're seeing it more 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.000 and more. I mean, we're are kids, and whether football 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.040 or basketball, at the end of the day, most of 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.360 the student body is not back. But those you know, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.280 these guys are back because they understand the importance of 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.560 sport and how a lot of you know, colleges and 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.560 universities you know, rely on on that revenue. So I 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.520 think we you know now, but up until this point 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.560 has always been okay, it's the universities, the coaches that 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.760 everybody else. Now it's it's some talk about how do 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.559 we include the kids, how do we include the product? 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.880 And it's a lot of smart people that if they 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.719 really wanted to figure it out, I'm pretty sure we're 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.679 getting to figure it out. Agreed. Yeah, I mean, I 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.559 as a forty year old man who's still obsessed with 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.520 NBA jerseys, yours was the first I own, the first 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.679 professional jersey, and you had a wildly popular jersey, not 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.560 only just because you were who you were, but I 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.120 think the timing of rappers starting to wear jerseys and 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.679 it becoming more of like a fashion trend happened at 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.160 the same time you were drafted. Was that insane for 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.160 you to see them everywhere is basically coming out of college. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:29.920 Well yeah, and again it's like it's almost like that 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.439 you expected somewhat because of the success of like you 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.440 saw those nor tail anew jersey when you know, you 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.400 walk in the foot locker and it's like, oh, that's 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.120 my jersey the four too, but you know, and and actuality, 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.360 there's really was no name on the back of it. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.640 So I think that's the kind of what you what 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.920 you see and and but but for me, I'm just 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.679 hoping that that let's figure out a way too to 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.480 do it, because it's it's not hard, and I think 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.000 it's just a matter of a lot of old rules 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.640 that have been in place so long it's just time 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.719 for them the change. I think we were seeing that 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.920 with you know, just social injustice across the board and 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.320 and believe me, a lot of the underlying issues we 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.280 see there, you know, all started a long time ago 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.480 with some of the same racial and social issues that 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.840 we were dealing with back then and we're still facing 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.600 right now. I want to ask about that, with the 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.680 country focusing on the racial divide and racism and the 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.280 murder of George Floyd, do you have a plan as 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.520 a head coach with your athletes to talk about how 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.120 they would protest or have their voice heard in college sports. Well, yeah, 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.120 I mean we're really listening to UH players and some 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.680 of the things. I mean, I actually had an exercise 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.760 where I've had them write a paragraph for as much 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:44.880 as they wanted to about how they feel that they 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.880 could be impactful. And we had some really good ideas 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.600 from our kids and wanted to promote some grouts on 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.480 the jumbo trying for games. Some wanted to talk about, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.160 you know, actually staging a protest or some sort. And 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.040 I think that's where we helped them as adults. We 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.400 allow them to be creative because they're really smart. But 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.520 at the same time, they still need some guidance and 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.000 they still need the belts to be able to help 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.400 them set the table. But we have to listen to 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.960 them and kind of left them, you know, steer the 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.080 ship a little bits as we moved forward, because I 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.560 just don't know if we change people who have been 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.840 and just kind of ingraining them for most of their life. 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:22.760 So where we have to do is try to educate 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.320 this current group and the group that's coming after them. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.200 And I think that's what we want really see the 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.840 significant change. And I was thinking from your perspective as well. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.240 You played with Alan Iverson on the Sixers, and I 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.000 constantly think about him and how the NBA treated him 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.680 in the prime of his career, whether it was the 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.160 dress code that was thinly veiled attack on him, or 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.520 photoshopping out his tattoos on media kits and just really 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.520 like categorizing him as a thug. Did you guys all 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.640 notice that when it was happening. Was that something that 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.520 you guys were sort of cognitive of. Yeah, I think 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.520 we were all cognitive of it, but I think there 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.880 was at the same time we were cognitive who was 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.760 the major sponsors of our league? And I think, you know, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.760 David Stern or I think he did a unbelievable job 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.040 of marketing in the league. And I mean at the time, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.760 it felt like the best way to market our league 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.280 and our players was to be able to you know, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.440 present as as professional Little did we know that that 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:22.440 black culture, or the culture of hip hop was even 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.480 more just does you know prevailing to to to a 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.160 lot of kids as um, you know, seeing somebody you 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.040 know walk up in a suit, I mean as a kid, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.560 I mean I enjoyed watching knowing that once I have 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.800 become a professional and I could be like Michael Jordan 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.800 and where for a suit to work. You know, not 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.960 all kids had that same assurrations. Some guys, you know, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.160 some kids we want to do were baggae jeans and 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.320 white T shirts with bandon in the corn rolls. That 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.120 wasn't necessarily me. You know, I grew up in the 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.680 same neighborhoods as these kids. You know, we all just 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.400 are different. And I think that that's what you know, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.480 Adam has embraced that, you know, tremenduster. Then guys be 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.720 individual and you see where the Russell Westbrooks and the 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.560 different guys not really taking it. You know, it's taking 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.480 on a life of its own just from standpoint of 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.879 a fashion, um to, where's something now that you know 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.359 we're all proud of as opposed to years back that 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.840 we just didn't feel like that was going to, you know, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.119 move the needle. As far as marketing, I playing, So 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.600 I have no fault with with David cern and his 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.520 thought process. At that time, um it felt a little yeah. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.000 I mean you're looking at it in now where where 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.439 everything that's going on. You could almost say it just 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.959 felt somewhere in racial but at that time being a 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.840 part of it. And I was like, Okay, we were 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.320 coming from a bad place in a late seventies early 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.440 eighties where we were was thought of as a drug 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.320 league and you know with you know, cocaine, you know, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.440 running the rampid within our league. So there was had 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.399 to be some some efforts to clean that up. And 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.560 I think, uh, we cleaned that up and came one 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.600 of the eight to tame billion dollar industry. So you've 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.760 got to get credit whereas due. But at the same time, 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:07.840 I think it's we're seeing now that that could have 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.800 been a little bit more balanced there. Yeah. And I 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:11.399 also want to go on record, I'm not proud of 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.920 all of Westbrooks outfits. I'm proud of some of them. Okay, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.320 all right, just as long as we're on the same page. Uh, 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.679 you left U n C early for the draft, but 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.720 you promised your mom and Dean Smith you would graduate 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.400 what you did. You had a degree in African American studies. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.320 I think one of the things that a lot of 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.399 Americans are surprised by, especially white America, is just the 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.800 like the whitewashing of our mainstream history books. Most people 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.880 had never heard of Juneteenth until an episode of Atlanta 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.679 or this past week, or the Tulsa massacre until they 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.240 saw it on Watchman on HBO. With your education and 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.960 with your background in in sort of this subject, how 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.080 could this be changed? Is this Is this the time 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.200 that we finally get a middle school with Juneteenth in 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.280 their history book? Is that possible now? I hope? So, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.120 I hope that's the next phase of bringing together one 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.920 history book. I think there's been a push for pop 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.359 to try to promote, you know, more African American history books, 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.200 and I pushed against that. I'd rather be a combination 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.159 of our history, you know, and to the point that 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.080 we're it's all combined. I mean, if we really tell 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.399 the true story, I mean, we know the story that 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.520 we were at about sixteen twenty Christopher Columbus coming over 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.520 on the mayfly and all that, but they need to 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.920 talk about what, you know, what really happened, you know 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:27.879 what I'm saying, How when they came over on and 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.840 make ship, what did they do? Who did they take 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.240 it away from? So I think when we, you know, 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.520 stop trying to hide behind all of that and really 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.040 tell tell the truth, and we'll be able to really 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.679 embrace the history from both sides. When you were in 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.439 college and you were learning that stuff, did you have 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.440