WEBVTT - Bonus Episode: 'Low' Engineer Edu Meyer Remembers Working with David Bowie During His Berlin Years at Hansa Studios

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.

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<v Speaker 1>My name's Jordan Runtug. Thanks so much for listening. Our

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<v Speaker 1>last two episodes followed David in the late seventies as

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<v Speaker 1>he recorded Low and Heroes, the Twin Pillars of a

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<v Speaker 1>so called Berlin trilogy. Sorry Lodger fans, These records contain

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<v Speaker 1>the most innovative music Bowie ever made and are an

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<v Speaker 1>artistic triumph on almost every level. This is surprising because

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<v Speaker 1>on paper, none of this should have ever worked. Who

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<v Speaker 1>gets an R and B rhythm section to play lockstep,

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<v Speaker 1>crowd rock electro jams? Who loads an entire side of

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<v Speaker 1>what's obstensively a pop album with wordless ambient soundscapes. Who

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<v Speaker 1>makes an album mere steps from the Berlin Wall one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most notorious geopolitical hotspots on the globe. Even

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<v Speaker 1>David's compositional process had changed, adopting avant garde techniques gleaned

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<v Speaker 1>from renegades like iggy Pop, Brian Eno, William Burrows, John Cage,

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<v Speaker 1>and Steve Reich. As is so often the case, David

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<v Speaker 1>fused this collection of disparate ideas and influences into something

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<v Speaker 1>completely new, a sound that's indefinable and sometimes indescribable. What

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<v Speaker 1>would you call say sound and vision At best, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a freakish multi hypha native genres. If you forced me

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<v Speaker 1>to pick a single word, I just have to go

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<v Speaker 1>with awesome. In addition the co producer Tony Visconti and

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<v Speaker 1>arrant Mad musical scientist Brian Eno. Another crucial collaborator on

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<v Speaker 1>the German sessions was Du Meyer. U was an engineer

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<v Speaker 1>at Hansa Studios, the famous Hall by the Wall that

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<v Speaker 1>served as David's creative home during his time in Berlin.

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<v Speaker 1>When he wasn't working on Schlager or schlocky German pop

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<v Speaker 1>that ruled the airwaves at the time, Ido helped David

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<v Speaker 1>put the finishing touches on low. David even enlicted him

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<v Speaker 1>to play the mournful cello part on Weeping Wall, inspired

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<v Speaker 1>by the sim of division and oppression looming just outside

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<v Speaker 1>the studio windows. Du also assisted on the album's David

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<v Speaker 1>produced for Iggy Pop, The Idiot and Lust for Life.

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<v Speaker 1>They're Working. Relationships stretched into the eighties, when David would

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<v Speaker 1>return to Berlin to record the soundtrack to the Berthold

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<v Speaker 1>Brect play Ball and Players legendary seven concert at the Reichstag.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd remained friends until the end of David's life. Du

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<v Speaker 1>occasionally gives speaking engagements in conjunction with Berlin Music Tours,

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<v Speaker 1>the only company that actually takes you inside the famous

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<v Speaker 1>hall by the Wall. I've taken the trip myself and

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<v Speaker 1>being there in the room where Bowie actually belted out

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<v Speaker 1>heroes as truly all inspiring. Edu was giving a talk

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<v Speaker 1>as part of the release celebration for Black Star and

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<v Speaker 1>when he heard the news about David's passing, I'm so

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<v Speaker 1>grateful you do agree to speak with me and share

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<v Speaker 1>his memories of being alongside Bowie as it recorded the

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<v Speaker 1>groundbreaking music of Low. I just start to tell a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about my turn to Berlin, and actually I

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<v Speaker 1>was I was born as somebody who wanted uh not

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<v Speaker 1>to be a musician and not to be a technical guide,

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<v Speaker 1>but to do both together. So that what that means

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<v Speaker 1>uh I had to had sound engineering course lecture at

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<v Speaker 1>high school in dessert Off. I did this in dessert

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<v Speaker 1>Off in UH nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two

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<v Speaker 1>and made my final final exam in nineteen seventy two

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<v Speaker 1>and started my career as a recording engineer at Cornege

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<v Speaker 1>Studio in Cologne, and from there I got the jump

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy five to Berlin, and very soon I

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<v Speaker 1>came across the Hansa studio manager who whom I asked

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<v Speaker 1>for a job, and who said where you can start

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<v Speaker 1>next Monday. Yeah, that was in February nine seventy six.

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<v Speaker 1>So I came across David Poe. Yet this year nine

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<v Speaker 1>seventy six, in summer he had to contact to Eca

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<v Speaker 1>Fusa from Tantiling Dream uh in a while, and Edgar

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<v Speaker 1>recommended him Answer Studio right to the edge of the

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<v Speaker 1>Berlin Wall. We had the Berlin Wall a few steps

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<v Speaker 1>far from the studio, and so he came across Answer

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<v Speaker 1>and looked at it and said, wow, a big hall.

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<v Speaker 1>And he named it the Big Hall by the wall,

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<v Speaker 1>which was originally the Masters are the house for the

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<v Speaker 1>Masters of building houses. And so we had a new

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<v Speaker 1>name for international name for Answer Studio too, um, which

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<v Speaker 1>was Studio Too, because we had one studio at another

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<v Speaker 1>location in Berlin. Uh. This was, by the way, the

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<v Speaker 1>studio where we started to listen to David's tapes. Because

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<v Speaker 1>Answer Studio Too the Big Hole was busy with our

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<v Speaker 1>Schlager producer Jack White in Germany who produced all these

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<v Speaker 1>uh Lager people um from morning till night, and uh

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<v Speaker 1>so the studio was busy day and night, and yet

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<v Speaker 1>to move where to direct him to the Nestor stars

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<v Speaker 1>of the studio One, which was a very good studio

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<v Speaker 1>and meanwhile very famous studio as well for for the

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<v Speaker 1>Berlin music scene. So we started as well with Iggy Pop.

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<v Speaker 1>He was present at the time as well at the

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<v Speaker 1>very beginning of David's work in Berlin and did some

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<v Speaker 1>of his finished some of his plans to uh bring

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<v Speaker 1>out some music, some new music the Idiot for example,

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<v Speaker 1>And so we worked on on the baking tracks of

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<v Speaker 1>Low who were produced in in France before. And David

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<v Speaker 1>was a bit fed up with the studio in France,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he came to Berlin by recommendation as well

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<v Speaker 1>of Edgar Fursa, and and I knew Edgar Fursa as

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<v Speaker 1>well a little bit before. So when when we started

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<v Speaker 1>at Hansa One in Nestor, starters came closer to each other.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, I was the one the guy who

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<v Speaker 1>directed Tony Visconti to the specialties of the studio and

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<v Speaker 1>of the plug ins and or or the equipment which

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<v Speaker 1>was available to do something with the tapes, and they

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<v Speaker 1>got cassettes to rehearse and to listen to it in

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<v Speaker 1>their hotel UH rooms. And so then I decided to

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<v Speaker 1>do some work on it. And later we had another

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<v Speaker 1>session in Uh Answer too in the big Hall by

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<v Speaker 1>the war and so we were worked on the album Low,

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<v Speaker 1>and he added some small vocal parts and the saxophone part,

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<v Speaker 1>and we did two new tracks as well with the

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<v Speaker 1>equipment in the studio where there was was a maremba

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<v Speaker 1>phone and David played on this marimba phone in the

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<v Speaker 1>Big Hall and he said, okay, can can we use it?

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<v Speaker 1>I said, of course, we can use everything here in

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<v Speaker 1>the studio. And then he started to record one of

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<v Speaker 1>the tracks of the B side of the album Low,

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<v Speaker 1>which was the Weeping Wall, and he did a count

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<v Speaker 1>on tape on one track from one two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>eighty and UH. Every time he was overdubbing his counting,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, okay, dropped me in at six, dropped me

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<v Speaker 1>in at ninety, dropped me in anywhere you want. And

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<v Speaker 1>so he used this marima phone to do UH certain

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<v Speaker 1>kind of musical carpet on on on this tape, which

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<v Speaker 1>was the basis for the Weeping Wall, and then he

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<v Speaker 1>added some other things to it as well. As when

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<v Speaker 1>he find out found out that I was trained musician

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<v Speaker 1>on my cello, he had the idea, uh, and Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Visconti as well, to do some overdubbing with my shadow.

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<v Speaker 1>So I brought my shadow into the studio and so

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<v Speaker 1>we did eight tracks on her art decade and uh

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<v Speaker 1>so UM got some bow scratching from my cello to

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<v Speaker 1>this track, which made it much more alive than it

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<v Speaker 1>was when I listened to it. And Tony Visconti wrote

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<v Speaker 1>a little score for me because I'm a classical musician

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm used to play music from scores, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it worked. It worked, very funny. What did you think

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<v Speaker 1>of the music David was playing as you were working

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<v Speaker 1>on it? Was it apparent early on that this wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>just an ordinary pop album. Well, it was something very

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<v Speaker 1>new for me because the way we did recordings at

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<v Speaker 1>Ansa and as well in Cologne before was like somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who was organizing this on scores and writing scores for

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<v Speaker 1>the single musicians and uh, they used to play from

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<v Speaker 1>from this course, and this was a sort of completely

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<v Speaker 1>different stuff that there were no scores at all. There

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<v Speaker 1>was no written music except maybe for some lyrics of

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<v Speaker 1>David and Um as well with Iggy Poppy. He wrote

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<v Speaker 1>very much lyrics on a piece of paper. He had

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<v Speaker 1>had a role from the kitchen and he sat in

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<v Speaker 1>the side room where he could look to the console

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<v Speaker 1>and watch Um watch the movements on the recording session.

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<v Speaker 1>And he had a role and he wrote lyrics and

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<v Speaker 1>the role was hanging just around the whole room. The

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<v Speaker 1>long role of of of written stuff of lyrics. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what for. Maybe it has written some letters

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Yeah, funny, yah, quite funny. What was David

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<v Speaker 1>like in the studio when he when he came into

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<v Speaker 1>the studio did he know exactly what he wanted and

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<v Speaker 1>he sat down and did it or was there a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of experimentation at this time and trying stuff out

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<v Speaker 1>and then kind of making a decision afterwards when he

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<v Speaker 1>heard all the different options. Well, and he was present

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, of course, and David was was very

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<v Speaker 1>keen on working on his stuff. And no drugs, no

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<v Speaker 1>drugs at all. And yeah, little box of beer beer

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<v Speaker 1>bottles was around. He was very keen on working on

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<v Speaker 1>his tapes and so whatever there was a discussion about

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<v Speaker 1>how to do something, David had the last word and

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<v Speaker 1>he was doing what he wanted. Everybody was most clear

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<v Speaker 1>that David's ideas were performed, of course, so when when

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<v Speaker 1>he performed himself as well, he did what he wanted

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<v Speaker 1>and and he was very clean, very clear on on this.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course he was interested in everything which has

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<v Speaker 1>got to do something with the technique of the studio,

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<v Speaker 1>and I mean V six cannot be compared to a

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<v Speaker 1>studio technique today. And there was no digital stuff at all,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was everything was analope and if you wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to head it music you had to cut the tapes

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<v Speaker 1>and was very heavy, very much. What was his working

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<v Speaker 1>relationship like with with Tony Visconti, How did they push

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<v Speaker 1>one another and and uh and and work together. They

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<v Speaker 1>they were um master and client and from both sides,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, David said Tony what to do, and Tony said,

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<v Speaker 1>recommended David something and he accepted also. Uh. They were

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<v Speaker 1>good friends, and so I came to both of them

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<v Speaker 1>after a while as a good friend too. And first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, there was a skeptic, isn't And so we

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<v Speaker 1>were fresh and not yet colleagues like we we were

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<v Speaker 1>later on. And so during the whole time with David Bowie,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean at lasted until until eighty seven, him last time,

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<v Speaker 1>except for the concert he did in two thousand two.

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<v Speaker 1>But all the time we were good friends and Uh

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<v Speaker 1>and I had contact until he finished his contact with

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<v Speaker 1>his friends before just two years before he died. Probably

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<v Speaker 1>the doctor had said, you have two more years and

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<v Speaker 1>and that's it. And at this time we were good

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<v Speaker 1>friends together and well, uh could smell each other very

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<v Speaker 1>very well. I know you were at a Black Star

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<v Speaker 1>a listening event at Hansa's studios when when you heard

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<v Speaker 1>the news of his passing. In a strange way, it

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<v Speaker 1>must have been nice to be surrounded by so many

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.760
<v Speaker 1>people at that moment who loved him. Yeah. Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>had no idea that two days after the publication of

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Black Star David would pass. I mean, this was was terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>It was It's like, I can't believe what's going on.

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 1>And so it was a very heavy time at this time.

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<v Speaker 1>And I flew from Berlin when Tino woke me up

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning after this weekend and said, David has passed,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, no way, it can't be. But it was.

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 1>And our telephone lines were blinking all the time, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was very heavy, and I said, I have I

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<v Speaker 1>have to quit now, I have to go back to

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>the country. At this point, yeah, that's That was the

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 1>tenth of January two thousand sixteen. It was very heavy,

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:28.959
<v Speaker 1>heavy for us, for the whole world. I guess David's

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with Berlin always seemed very special. When I visited

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<v Speaker 1>Berlin a few years back, I got the sense that

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<v Speaker 1>David was revered as far more than just a pop

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.199
<v Speaker 1>star or a talented musician, but he meant something to

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the German people in a much deeper way. Berlin has

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<v Speaker 1>sort of adopted him as there their adopted son, and

0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 1>it seems like he felt really comfortable there. The stories

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:56.479
<v Speaker 1>as well was with a girlfriend he he had. She

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<v Speaker 1>talked about him that in the underground when somebody asked

0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:10.120
<v Speaker 1>her is this David Bowie, she she made something very

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 1>strange like, uh, she talked to him in German. Uh,

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.720
<v Speaker 1>and uh, we have forgotten to to buy some potatoes

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 1>high she said. She said she if she covered him

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<v Speaker 1>from everything, and as well, Coco I was taking care

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<v Speaker 1>of him all the time, and Coco was watching, uh

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<v Speaker 1>the tapes and no, no tapes out of the studio

0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 1>and so they had made bad experiences with stolen tapes

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 1>and uh yeah, something like that, and so I took

0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.440
<v Speaker 1>very much care of all the tapes and yeah, that

0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>worked one for you. Spent Christmas with with David and Coco.

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it was Christmas even, Yeah, how was that?

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 1>What was that? Like? Yeah, it happened that they invited

0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 1>me to a Christmas meal. I said, oh, yeah, why not?

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.440
<v Speaker 1>And so I came to Houstraza and I was shown

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:31.240
<v Speaker 1>around this apartment and it was many rooms, one after another.

0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:38.400
<v Speaker 1>You could go like an archum around the whole apartment.

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:44.919
<v Speaker 1>All the rooms were just one matters or nothing in it,

0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 1>and exactly for the year. For the last room, which

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.440
<v Speaker 1>was David's the sleeping room where he had a real bed,

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:59.360
<v Speaker 1>and and an idle where he had his paintings, and

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 1>I can't remember which painting was just on the eisle.

0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.439
<v Speaker 1>Maybe was just the aisle standing there alone. But the

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.879
<v Speaker 1>last room was the kitchen, and there was everything you

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:19.439
<v Speaker 1>needed to prepare the food and a meal. And Coco

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 1>had had a rooster in the oven in the oven,

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.879
<v Speaker 1>and and there were a couple of people of course,

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Iggy Pop and his son and David's son and Cocoa

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:41.440
<v Speaker 1>of course. And yeah, it was was a very funny evening.

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Was David in his privacy, uh with with a goose

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 1>a goose? Uh brown baked brown and very tasty. Yeah.

0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Did you see him much outside of the studio aside

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 1>from this Christmas meal? Did you go out to dinners

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.760
<v Speaker 1>or go up coffee or anything like that? We we

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:11.720
<v Speaker 1>have have not. We didn't have very much a private

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:18.000
<v Speaker 1>contact just I mean just the studio was was our

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 1>meeting point all the time. And I didn't need to

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 1>fear as well, because there was going there were going

0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:35.680
<v Speaker 1>things around like the divos was was his lady in Switzerland, Angie.

0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:41.120
<v Speaker 1>There were strange stories and so I couldn't even follow

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:47.600
<v Speaker 1>the speeches which were held there on telephone and um.

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 1>And there was trouble with a lawyers as far as

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I remember, There was trouble with R. T A with

0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 1>the company who didn't like the duct of low and

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 1>what have you. What what a ship is on this tape.

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny to hear that now because everyone loves it. Yeah, Yeah,

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:18.960
<v Speaker 1>it's very strange. David's spoken a lot about the studio's

0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.520
<v Speaker 1>proximity to the wall, the Berlin Mall being something that

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:24.840
<v Speaker 1>that really unnerved him. You could see the guards from

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 1>the control room. What was the atmosphere like? Look through

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:35.080
<v Speaker 1>when you sit in front of the console, You could

0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.160
<v Speaker 1>look through a window right to the wall, and there

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>was a big house behind the wall, and on top

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 1>of the house there were two little barracks for the

0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:54.919
<v Speaker 1>guards who were wearing binoculars and machine guns on on

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:59.400
<v Speaker 1>their backs. And very funny, and did someone we opened

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 1>with we we we listened to the tapes on with

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:10.359
<v Speaker 1>open windows and I'm I'm sure they could listen and

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 1>they could watch us with their binoculars. And one day

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>at the very beginning, when we were standing in front

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:26.120
<v Speaker 1>of the console and looked to the wall, I took

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 1>one of the lambs and and directed it to the

0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 1>to the guards on top of their And at the

0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:38.840
<v Speaker 1>same time Tony and David jumped down under the desk

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:44.800
<v Speaker 1>to hide themselves because they thought they were they were

0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.880
<v Speaker 1>doing something with their guns, and I said, they like us,

0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.960
<v Speaker 1>They they don't do us anything that they were going

0:23:53.000 --> 0:24:01.280
<v Speaker 1>to get shot at very funny, many little jokes around

0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>a situation, and I mean the results were quite all right.

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Off the Record is a production of I heart Radio.

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:19.199
<v Speaker 1>If you liked what you heard, please subscribe and leave

0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:22.160
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