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Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from house

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Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tracy Vie Wilson. I'm Holly Frying. We pretty recently did

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Speaker 1: two episodes on birired Rustin, and in those episodes we

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about conscience objection to military service fired.

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Speaker 1: Drustin was a Quaker, and because he was a pacifist,

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Speaker 1: his conscience objection to war also evolved to include an

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Speaker 1: objection to conscripting people into the military. So at one

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Speaker 1: point he had actually registered as a conscientious objector, which

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Speaker 1: meant that if he had been drafted, they could be

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Speaker 1: assigned to alternate noncombat service. But after this evolution in

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Speaker 1: his views, he instead rescinded his registration and went to

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Speaker 1: federal prison instead. Some of the response that we got

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Speaker 1: to that episode moved today's topic farther up ahead on

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Speaker 1: my short list of subjects. Shortlist is like fifty things long.

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Speaker 1: My shortlists has a very similar number. It's sartah, it's

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Speaker 1: the whole year whereth the podcast. Uh So it moved

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Speaker 1: this topic ahead in that in that short list, A

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Speaker 1: Desmond T. Doss was also a conscientious objector but his

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Speaker 1: choices relating to this objection took a really different form

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Speaker 1: from Byrod Rustens. Doss did serve in the military in

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Speaker 1: a non combat role, and he was the first conscientious

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Speaker 1: objector to be awarded the Medal of Honor. So today

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about him, as well as a

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Speaker 1: little bit about two other conscientious objectors who have also

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Speaker 1: been awarded the same honor. Before we get into Dosson's story,

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Speaker 1: we're going to level set a little bit with a

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Speaker 1: look at some of the history of conscience objection in

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Speaker 1: the Western world. Doss and both of the other men

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Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about we're from the United States,

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Speaker 1: but conscience objection in general is something that exists in

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Speaker 1: a lot of other nations as well, So although the

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Speaker 1: basic idea is a whole lot older. The term conscientious

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Speaker 1: objector seems to have been coined sometime in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century to describe a person who refuses to comply

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Speaker 1: with the requirement because doing so would violate their conscience.

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Speaker 1: So this term has been applied to all kinds of

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Speaker 1: requirements related to lots of different services and fields and circumstances.

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Speaker 1: This includes medicine and law, but today we are really

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Speaker 1: sticking to the context of conscience and military service. Issues

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Speaker 1: of conscience objection typically only come up when military service

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Speaker 1: is mandatory in some way. This was true of the

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Speaker 1: person typically cited as history's first conscientious objector. That was Maximilianus,

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Speaker 1: who was the son of a Roman army veteran. He

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Speaker 1: was required to join the military when he turned twenty one,

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Speaker 1: and this was back in the year to Maximilianus refused,

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Speaker 1: citing his Christian beliefs as his reason for refusal, and

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Speaker 1: he was beheaded for doing so. Historically, conscience objection to

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Speaker 1: military service has usually not always been connected to pacifist religions,

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Speaker 1: and this meant that in Europe conscious objection became a

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Speaker 1: lot more common following the Protestant Reformation. After the Reformation,

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Speaker 1: the number and focus of religious denominations became a lot

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Speaker 1: more diverse, and a lot more people began to choose

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Speaker 1: which faith to belong to, rather than following a state

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Speaker 1: sponsored or nationally consistent religion. So Mena Nites, for example,

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Speaker 1: were exempt from mandatory guard duties because of their pacifist beliefs.

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Speaker 1: During the Dutch Wars of Independence in the sixteenth century,

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Speaker 1: standards and rules about how how to handle conscience objections

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Speaker 1: also spread along with conscription into start standing armies in

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Speaker 1: Europe following the French Revolution. Nations saw a need to

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Speaker 1: establish and maintain a standing army, but they also saw

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Speaker 1: a need not to force their citizens to violate their

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Speaker 1: religious principles in doing so. It was really the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century before conscience objection sort of coalesced into an anti

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Speaker 1: war movement strategy. That was when people really started to

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Speaker 1: describe themselves as conscientious objectors rather than describing conscription or

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Speaker 1: military service or a specific war as something that was

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Speaker 1: against their religion. And the idea that someone could have

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Speaker 1: a conscious objection to war personally without being without it

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Speaker 1: being based in a very specific organized religion started to

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Speaker 1: become more common around the First World World War as well,

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Speaker 1: and at the start of World War One, many European

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Speaker 1: nations and the United States added specific conscious objection rules

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Speaker 1: to their conscription policies, in part because of advocacy on

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Speaker 1: the part of pacifist religious groups. When World War One ended,

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Speaker 1: most but not all European nations ended their conscription programs,

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Speaker 1: which temporarily tabled the issue of conscience objection. When conscriptions

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Speaker 1: started up again before and during World War Two, a

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Speaker 1: lot of nations again offered alternative service to conscientious objectors,

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Speaker 1: although people who felt like their conscience wouldn't allow them

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Speaker 1: to support the war in any way, even if it

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Speaker 1: were in a non combat role still usually wound up

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Speaker 1: being sentenced the time in prison. Today, many nations around

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Speaker 1: the world view conscience objection as a fundamental human right

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Speaker 1: protected by international law. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

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Speaker 1: was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December

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Speaker 1: tenth of ninety in the wake of World War Two.

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Speaker 1: Article eighteen of that declaration reads quote, everyone has the

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Speaker 1: right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right

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Speaker 1: includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom

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Speaker 1: either alone or in a community with others, and in

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Speaker 1: public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship,

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Speaker 1: and observance. Article eighteen of the International Covenant on Civil

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Speaker 1: and Political Rights, which was adopted in nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 1: builds on this idea. Further part one of that article

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Speaker 1: we is is really similar to what Holly just read,

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Speaker 1: and then it continues to no one shall be subject

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Speaker 1: to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or

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Speaker 1: adopt a religion or belief of his choice. Three freedom

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Speaker 1: to manifest ones religion or beliefs may be subject only

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Speaker 1: to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are

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Speaker 1: necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals, or

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Speaker 1: the fundamental rights and freedoms of others. Although this Declaration

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Speaker 1: and Covenant don't specifically mention conscience objection, many nations have

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Speaker 1: interpreted conscience objection as an aspect of the freedom of thought, conscience,

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Speaker 1: and religion. Also, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights,

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Speaker 1: which was replaced by the Human Rights Council in two

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Speaker 1: thousand six, has issued a number of other declarations that

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Speaker 1: do specific addressed conscience objection. Although these aren't legally binding

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Speaker 1: among member states, they spell out conscience objection as being

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Speaker 1: part of the fundamental human right to freedom of thought.

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Speaker 1: The first of these was Resolution nine seven forty six,

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Speaker 1: which was passed in nineteen eighty seven with twenty six

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Speaker 1: votes in favor, two against, and fourteen obstentions. The following year,

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Speaker 1: the Commission on Human Rights issued Resolution seventy seven, specifying

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Speaker 1: that everyone has the right to conscience objection and calling

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Speaker 1: on states that don't have conscience objection policies to develop

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Speaker 1: them in a non discriminatory way. A number of other

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Speaker 1: resolutions upholding the right to conscience objection have followed since then.

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Speaker 1: Not every United Nations member state has agreed with those

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Speaker 1: resolutions or with the interpretation that conscience objection is a

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Speaker 1: fundamental human right. For example, Singapore drafted a letter to

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Speaker 1: the Commission in two thousand two that was co signed

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Speaker 1: by sixteen member states, does include Bangladesh, bots Wanna, China, Egypt, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon,

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Speaker 1: me and mar Rwanda, Singapore, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, Tanzania and Vietnam,

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Speaker 1: stating that they quote do not recognize the universal applicability

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Speaker 1: of conscientious objection to military service. And of course, not

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Speaker 1: every nation on earth is a member state of the

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Speaker 1: United Nations. There are so many nuances to all this,

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Speaker 1: and from an ethical and moral standpoint, the decision to

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Speaker 1: object or not to object is an incredibly personal one.

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Speaker 1: And if conscience objection is a fundamental human right, then

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Speaker 1: that means that people who do serve in the military

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Speaker 1: are fighting to protect the right not to. Whether they

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Speaker 1: agree with the existence of that right are not. And

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Speaker 1: there have also been lots of times in history when

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Speaker 1: the idea of conscience objections has become just incredibly divisive,

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Speaker 1: and the most obvious is probably during the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 1: All of that is really outside the scope of our

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Speaker 1: show today, but we would be remiss if we did

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Speaker 1: not at least acknowledge it. So for Desmond T. Doss,

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Speaker 1: the decision not to fight was not actually even something

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Speaker 1: he thought of as a conscience objection. He actually preferred

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Speaker 1: to be called a conscientious cooperator. And we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about him after a brief word from one of

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Speaker 1: our sponsors. Desmond T. Doss was born in Lynchburg, Virginia,

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Speaker 1: on February seventh nine. His mother worked in a shoe

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Speaker 1: factory and his father was a carpenter, and their family

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Speaker 1: were members of the Seventh day Adventist Church. In their home,

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Speaker 1: they had a framed poster that displayed the illustrated ten

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Speaker 1: Commandments in the Lord's Prayer, and the illustration of the

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Speaker 1: sixth commandment of thou shalt not kill was of Caine

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Speaker 1: having just killed his brother Abel from the Book of Genesis.

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Speaker 1: This image had an almost visceral impact on the young Desmond.

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Speaker 1: He was appalled at the idea that one brother could

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Speaker 1: murder another, and he also believed that bearing arms was

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Speaker 1: a sin against God. In April of nineteen forty two,

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Speaker 1: Dawson enlisted an army for World War Two. Although he

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Speaker 1: was designated as a conscientious objector, he didn't actually have

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Speaker 1: an objection to serving as long as he didn't have

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Speaker 1: to kill anyone or carry a weapon and could observe

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Speaker 1: the Sabbath each Saturday. To reconcile his service with his faith,

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Speaker 1: doc Dos became a medic. Being a medic would let

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Speaker 1: him help people rather than harm them, and he didn't

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Speaker 1: have an objection to doing actual medical work on Saturday since,

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Speaker 1: and his words quote Christ, healed on a Sabbath. Even so,

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Speaker 1: Dosh faced harassment and derision from his peers while they

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Speaker 1: were in training. In addition to his religious refusal to

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Speaker 1: carry a weapon or do non medical work like participating

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Speaker 1: in drills on Saturdays, he continued his practice of devotion

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Speaker 1: in prayers. He was also a vegetarian for religious reasons.

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Speaker 1: At one point, his commanding officer attempted to have him

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Speaker 1: discharged from the army on the grounds that he was

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Speaker 1: mentally ill. Doss's response quote, I'd be a very poor

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Speaker 1: Christian if I accepted a discharge, implying that I was

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Speaker 1: mentally off because of my religion. In the end, though,

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Speaker 1: Dos completed his training and was deployed with the three

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Speaker 1: seventh Infantry seventy seventy seventh Infantry Division. He left for

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Speaker 1: Guam in the summer of nineteen forty four, and he

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Speaker 1: served as a medic both there and on the Island

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Speaker 1: of Laity in the Philippines, earning the Bronze Star for

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Speaker 1: his heroism. In the spring of nineteen forty five, Doss

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Speaker 1: was part of the Battle of Okinawa, which stretched from

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Speaker 1: April one to June twenty two of nineteen forty and

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Speaker 1: pitted the US and its allies against Japanese troops that

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Speaker 1: were deeply entrenched in caves, tunnels, and other cover. Doss's

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Speaker 1: unit was on the four hundred foot tall ridget Ada

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Speaker 1: escarpment when a Japanese force staged a counter attack on

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Speaker 1: Saturday May five. Doss was the only medic with them

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Speaker 1: on the escarpment, and while some of the American force

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Speaker 1: was able to retreat back down, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: men who were wounded were stranded on top of this

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Speaker 1: ridge and pinned down under fire from the Japanese force.

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Speaker 1: Doss remained with the wounded men, and he rigged a

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Speaker 1: sling to evacuate them one at a time down the

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Speaker 1: face of a cliff, using knots and techniques that he

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Speaker 1: had learned as a youth when working in a flood rescue.

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Speaker 1: He used a tree stump to anchor his sling, He

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Speaker 1: loaded each wounded man into it, and he lowered them

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Speaker 1: thirty five feet to safety on a protected ledge below.

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Speaker 1: He did this over and over while under fire, until

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Speaker 1: every man was down, and then he lowered himself. His

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Speaker 1: commanding officer wanted to credit him with saving a hundred

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Speaker 1: men's lives that day, He said it was only more

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Speaker 1: like fifty, and they eventually compromise at seventy. His heroic

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Speaker 1: efforts to save people's lives did not stop there, though.

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Speaker 1: He basically continued to rescue men from under fire repeatedly,

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Speaker 1: including carrying people to safety while being fired upon for

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Speaker 1: pretty much the whole next week. On May twelve, he

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Speaker 1: was injured by a grenade and had multiple shrapnel injuries

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Speaker 1: to his legs. Although another medic was nearby, Dass cared

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Speaker 1: for his injuries himself for five hours, rather than having

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Speaker 1: the other medic risk his own safety and come to help. Then,

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Speaker 1: when Dass was finally evacuated, he saw another soldier whose

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Speaker 1: need he thought was greater, so he got off the

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Speaker 1: litter he was being carried on and asked the medics

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Speaker 1: to take care of that other man instead. Then, while

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Speaker 1: sustained a compound fracture, And possibly the only time in

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Speaker 1: his life that he ever handled a weapon, he made

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Speaker 1: a splint for himself out of a rifle stock and

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Speaker 1: then crawl to an aid station three yards away with

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Speaker 1: one of his arms broken and splinted. Just stand in

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Speaker 1: awe of all of this. I can't even grasp the

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Speaker 1: fortitude a person has to have, which is why he

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Speaker 1: earned the nickname the wonder Man of Okinawa. Desmondos was

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Speaker 1: one of the men awarded the Medal of Honor by

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Speaker 1: President Harry S. Truman on October twelfth, ninety Doss had

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Speaker 1: been a private when he took these actions that led

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Speaker 1: eventually lost a lung to tuberculosis. He spent about six

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Speaker 1: years in hospitals trying to recover, and he had planned

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Speaker 1: to go to a trade school and become a florist,

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Speaker 1: but the extent of his injuries and illnesses made that impossible.

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Speaker 1: He devoted most of his life instead to religious work,

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Speaker 1: and in nineteen seventy six he said only lost his

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Speaker 1: hearing in Das's first wife, Dorothy, who he had married

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty two before leaving for the service, died

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Speaker 1: in a car accident. He remarried about three years later,

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Speaker 1: and his second wife, Francis, was still living when Doss

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Speaker 1: died on March twenty, two, thousand six, at the age

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Speaker 1: of eighty seven. In seven, he said in an interview quote,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to be a hero. I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about it from this standpoint. In a house on fire

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Speaker 1: and a mother has a child in that house, what

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Speaker 1: prompts her to go in and get that child? Love?

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Speaker 1: I loved my men, and they loved me. I don't

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Speaker 1: consider myself a hero. I just couldn't give them up,

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Speaker 1: just like that mother couldn't give up the child. For

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Speaker 1: all of his life, he credited God with his survival

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Speaker 1: during the war. After another brief sponsor break, we will

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about two other conscientious objectors who

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Speaker 1: have also been awarded the Medal of Honor. So you

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Speaker 1: have talked about squares Space before on the podcast. Both

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Speaker 1: Racy and I use it. I have my personal sewing

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Speaker 1: will be able to set your website apart. We spoke

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Speaker 1: right before the break about two other conscientious objectors who

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Speaker 1: have also been awarded the Medal of Honor, and both

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Speaker 1: of them received that honor for work as medics in Vietnam.

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Speaker 1: The first was Thomas W. Bennett of Morgantown, West Virginia.

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Speaker 1: His military records didn't list it and on national preference,

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Speaker 1: but sources suggest that he was raised either Methodist or

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Speaker 1: Southern Baptist. Regardless, he attended the services of multiple denominations,

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Speaker 1: and he came to a sincerely held belief that all

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Speaker 1: life was sacred. He also vehemently objected to the United

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Speaker 1: States involvement in the Vietnam War. Specifically, Bennett was drafted

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Speaker 1: during that involvement in Vietnam, and after he lost his

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Speaker 1: student deferment due to poor grades at West Virginia University,

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Speaker 1: he wound up registering as a conscientious objector who was

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Speaker 1: willing to serve in a non combat role. He became

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Speaker 1: a medic and was eventually deployed to Vietnam. On February

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Speaker 1: nine of nineteen sixty nine, his his platoon there was ambushed.

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Speaker 1: In the words of his Medal of Honor citation quote,

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Speaker 1: Corporal Bennett, with complete disregard for his safety, ran through

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Speaker 1: the heavy fire to his fallen comrades, administered life saving

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Speaker 1: first aid under fire, and then made repeated trips carrying

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Speaker 1: the wounded men to positions of relative safety. From which

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Speaker 1: they would be medically evacuated from the battle position. Corporal

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Speaker 1: Bennett repeatedly braved the intense enemy fire, moving across open

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Speaker 1: areas to give aid and comfort to his wounded comrades.

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Speaker 1: He valiantly exposed himself to the heavy fire in order

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Speaker 1: to retrieve the bodies of several fallen personnel. Then, as

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Speaker 1: the whole platoon was awaiting for helicopters to rescue the

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Speaker 1: injured men, he spent the night outside the safety of

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Speaker 1: any kind of shelter, tending to wounded people who couldn't

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Speaker 1: be moved. On February eleven, a similar event happened again

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Speaker 1: when the platoon came under sniper fire, and once again

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Speaker 1: Bennett put himself at risk repeatedly to try to aid

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Speaker 1: the wounded, including an attempt to save a fellow soldier

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Speaker 1: who had fallen ahead of the company's position. Even though

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Speaker 1: he was warned that the fallen soldier would be impossible

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Speaker 1: to reach given where he was in the amount of

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Speaker 1: enemy fire, Bennett tried anyway, and he was mortally wounded

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Speaker 1: in the process. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of

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Speaker 1: Honor on April seventh of nineteen seventy, which would have

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Speaker 1: been his twenty third birthday. The third conscientious objector to

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Speaker 1: be awarded the Medal of Honor was Specialist for Joseph G. Lapointe, Jr.

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Speaker 1: And there's not as much biographical information that's publicly available

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Speaker 1: on him. Army records, though, identified him as a Baptist.

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Speaker 1: On June two of nineteen sixty nine, the patrol he

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Speaker 1: was on fell under heavy enemy fire. He rendered aid

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Speaker 1: while under fire to two injured soldiers, and to do

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Speaker 1: so he had to crawl directly into the line of

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Speaker 1: sight of an enemy bunker. He resorted to shielding the

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Speaker 1: two fallen men with his own body, but all three

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Speaker 1: were killed by an enemy grenade. In addition to his

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Speaker 1: Medal of Honor, Lapointe was also posthumously awarded the Silver Star.

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Speaker 1: He was survived by his wife, Cindy, and his son,

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Speaker 1: also named Joseph, who was unfortunately born after his father's death.

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Speaker 1: And that's a little bit about conscience objection and conscientious objectors.

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Speaker 1: Now that I'm all good and choked up, would you

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Speaker 1: like to read me solicitor mail? Sure? I do have

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Speaker 1: some listener mail. And the actually this this listener mail

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Speaker 1: is pretty lighthearted h to bring us up from a

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Speaker 1: lot of wartime death which I don't know. You and

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Speaker 1: I both have family members or in the service, and

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Speaker 1: some of that can be emotionally emotional. I'll just put

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Speaker 1: it that way. It can be emotional. So, uh, this

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Speaker 1: is from Charlene. Charlene wrote to us about our Harriet

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Speaker 1: Tubman episodes, and she says, I'm a student at Salisbury University,

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Speaker 1: which is located in Wacomico County, Maryland. Wacomico County borders

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Speaker 1: Tubman's native Dorchester County, and two thousand nine, s U

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Speaker 1: unmailed the statue of Tubman on campus that was sculpted

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Speaker 1: by one of our art professors, Dr James K. Hill.

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Speaker 1: The university's website describes it as follows quote. Hill sculpture

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Speaker 1: depicts Tubman walking through a Dorchester County marsh, looking behind

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Speaker 1: with her hand outstretched to those whom she is leading

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Speaker 1: to freedom with her our two companion and a sawett

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Speaker 1: owl and a rabbit looking ahead. According to Hill, they

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Speaker 1: symbolize two aspects of Tubman. One is a freedom fighter.

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Speaker 1: The wide eyed owl owl seeking slaves to liberate. The

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Speaker 1: saw what owl lives in the swamps, of the mid

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Speaker 1: Atlantic seaboard, but migrates to Canada each year, just as

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Speaker 1: tub mended. The other is the rabbit, which traditionally represents vigilance, intuition,

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Speaker 1: and forward progress. Despite fear, this burrowing animal goes underground,

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Speaker 1: symbolizing Tubman's role as a conductor the underground railroad. Hill's

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Speaker 1: rabbit is alert, just as Tubman was ever alert. I

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Speaker 1: think that is also part of the quoted material. So,

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Speaker 1: then Charlene continues, When I first saw the statue, I

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Speaker 1: had a different interpretation. Harriet is depicted with one arm outstretched,

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Speaker 1: her other hand holds her skirt. She's isn't wearing that

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Speaker 1: pair of bloomer pants. The rabbit is at her feet,

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Speaker 1: and the owl is on her shoulder. Her mouth is

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Speaker 1: open as if she is calling to someone. I looked

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Speaker 1: at the statue, turned to my friend and said, her

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Speaker 1: mouth is open like singing, and woodland animals have come

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Speaker 1: to her. I had no idea that Harriet Tubban was

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Speaker 1: a disney princess. Uh. And then she said some links

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Speaker 1: of bigger pictures and more of of Dr Hill's work

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Speaker 1: and an article about the statue, and says, sincerely, Charlene Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I want to stress this is a lovely statue.

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Speaker 1: I like it a lot. It does. It does indeed

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Speaker 1: have like a Disney princess quality, So now I kind

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Speaker 1: of want maybe it would be more like rejected princesses.

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Speaker 1: I hope our listeners are all familiar with rejected princesses.

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Speaker 1: But yes, it does have a slightly Disney heroine about

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Speaker 1: to burst into song look about it. We will put

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Speaker 1: a link to it from the show notes. That would

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Speaker 1: be sort of a cool Disney movie, I think, well,

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Speaker 1: especially given given the slow progression of Disney's princess heroine's

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Speaker 1: over the last several years, I could see maybe not

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Speaker 1: specifically Harriet Tubman, but like I could see that being

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Speaker 1: a princess role anyway. If you would like to write

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Speaker 1: to us about this or any other podcast where History

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00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: podcasts at how stuff Works dot com. We're also on

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Speaker 1: Facebook at facebook dot com slash myst in history and

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00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: on Twitter at miss in History. Our tumbler is miss

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00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: Industry dot tumbler dot com. We're also on panterst at

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00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: pentrist dot com slash mist in history, and our instagram

404
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: is at missed in history. If you would like to come,

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00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: if you would like to learn more about what we've

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00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: talked about today. We can come to our parent company's website,

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00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: which is how stuff Works dot com and put the

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00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: word draft in the search bar. You will learn about

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00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: how the US draft works, which includes some information about

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Speaker 1: conscious conscience objection and what people have to do in

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Speaker 1: the United States to be registered as consciences conscientious objectors.

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Speaker 1: You don't just basically walk up and say I object

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00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: and then get exempt from everything. That's not how it works.

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Speaker 1: You can also come to our website, which is missed

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00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: in History dot com, and find show notes for all

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00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: the episodes Holly and I have ever done. We will

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Speaker 1: have the links to the thing about the Statue and

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Speaker 1: this one. Um. There's an archive of every episode we've

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00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: ever done some other cool stuffs. You can do all

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00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: that and a whole lot more how stuff works dot

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00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: com or missed in History dot com for more on

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00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com