1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's me Josh, your old pal, and 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: for this week's s Y s K Select, I've chosen 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: our episode on zoot suits. It is a fascinating overlooked 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: piece of history about how clothes can mean so much 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: more than just what's keeping the elements off of you 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: or keeping your modesty intact. Plus, listen up for a 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: surprise appearance by Mystery Science Theater three thousand. It is 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: quite surprising. Enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Chuckers Bryant. And since two of us are sitting together 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: again and it's not lunchtime, um, it's leg wrestling time. 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: That's true. This means it's a stuff you should know? Right? Yeah, 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: what's up to? How are you? Josh? I'm good. We 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: just got something in today that I want to give 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: a shout out of banks for to our friend Martin 17 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: van Nostran. Did that come in today today? Okay? He 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: kept emailing us, pestering me has it not come yet? 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: Like I like, I'm the Postmaster general or something like that. 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, He sent us each a T shirt and 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: the new CD of his band. The Bangalore's in Vitro 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: Meat is the name of the album, and it's pretty awesome. 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: I haven't listened to it yet. I just got it, 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: can't wait. He sent us some some songs off of 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: it already, some previous cuts. Yeah, he was the first 26 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: person to record a stuff you should know song like 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand eight you remember, well, Yeah, and I 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: think he has a toxic plasmosis song on the new one, 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: right he does. Yeah, we've inspired a lot. I think 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: he released a whole album of stuff you should know 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: songs really yeah, and like quick little punk songs to 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: like a minute and a half. So there's like fifty 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: of them. But anyway, thanks a lot to Van Nostrin. 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: We won't say his real name, but we know it. 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: We do finally, we didn't for a long time. But anyway, 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: if you feel like checking that out, it's um. The 37 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: Bangalore's like the city in India and the album is 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: in vitro meat. And we'll probably get in trouble for 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: endorsing this, so Chuck, you want to get to it? Yes, 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of some dumb laws? Yeah? Man, 41 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: there are some dumb laws in this great land of ours. 42 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,839 Speaker 1: For example, if I may have prepared a shortlist. In Alabama, 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: bear wrestling matches are prohibited. It's illegal to sell peanuts 44 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: in Lee County after sundown on Wednesday. It would be 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: Lee County, Alabama. Did you give a reason for that one? No, 46 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: there are some This is from I think dumb laws 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: dot com and um. They have like just international laws, 48 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: state laws, local laws, and then under some of them 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: they have like full text of the law or why 50 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: this law exists. It's pretty comprehensive sit Um. In Hawaii, 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: coins are not allowed to be placed in one's ears 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: for spec ending only. Um. All residents may be find 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: as a result of not owning a boat. You're going 54 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: to Hawaii tomorrow right or a couple of days. I 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: dare you to put a coin in your ear and 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: walk around like I don't own a boat. I don't 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: own a boat. Chumps um back in our fair state 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: of Georgia. To legally use profanity in front of a 59 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: dead body which lies in a funeral home or in 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: a corner's office, that's respectful. That's a good law. Okay. 61 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Um in Ackworth, which is close to Kennesaw, where I 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: grew up, where you had to own a gun. I 63 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: didn't know this. In Acworth, all citizens must own a rake. 64 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: Really yeah, not a blower? A rake? I think a blower. 65 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: That's kind of like asking a lot of some some 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: of the lower income classes, you know. Um, In Athens 67 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: on Mondays it's illegal for one to whistle very loudly 68 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: after eleven pm. What but on Monday's. And then California, 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: of course is going to have some zany lass They 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: have tons and tons of wacky dumb laws. Animals are 71 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: banned from mating publicly within feet of a tavern, school 72 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: or place of worship. That I agree. When women may 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: not drive in a housecoat too, and Fresno, getting drunk 74 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: in a playground is against the law, that is sound. 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: I don't agree with that one. That's sensible. Uh. And 76 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: then in Los Angeles it's illegal to wear a zoot suit. 77 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah still still so I bring that up. And I 78 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: knew chuck with like that last one, because I'm sure 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: there's stories behind almost all of those zany laws, or 80 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: at least there's some reasoning people don't just make up 81 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: crazy laws like bear wrestlings. I'm sure, it got out 82 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: of hand once and now they're just like, that's it. 83 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: It's illegal. So Chuck and I actually know the reason 84 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: why zoot suits are illegal in Los Angeles County, California, 85 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: and we're going to tell you about it today. It's 86 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: pretty neat. This little article started off as a bit 87 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: of a uh a lark. I don't know, but we 88 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: thought zoot suits. Those are interesting and cool. But it's 89 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: more than a suit, as it turns out, it really is. 90 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: It was at least you should probably mention, like, what 91 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: is a zoot suit, Chuck. Everybody's seen them before. Yeah, 92 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen thirties. Uh, they were very much 93 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: in fashion, especially in uh in uh Latino communities, in 94 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: African American communities coast to coast though. Yeah, it seems 95 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: like uh, Caesar Chavez, Malcolm X, Cab Callaway, big band leaders, 96 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: the jazz scene in New York all very much associated 97 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: with zoot suits. Tom Cat from Tom and Jerry, Yeah, 98 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: who was going after a girl and she said he 99 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: was a square and was corny and he goes out 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: and gets some a zoot suit and becomes a cool cat, 101 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: cool cat. Yeah, so you'll know a zoot suit. They 102 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: were originally worn made of wool and then later rayon. 103 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: But you'll know it because they're very distinct. They have 104 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: very broad, padded shoulders, very long waisted coats. Uh. Suit 105 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: pants were worn really really high, like up over the 106 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: belly and uh, we're very tight at the top, then 107 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: ballooned out like mc hammer style and then tapered back 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: down again at the ankle or were pegged. Oh of course, yeah, 109 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: that's how you achieved that look. And um, the jackets 110 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: exaggerated contours and colors. A lot of times they would 111 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: wear the big pocket watch chain that went down to 112 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: their knee and the hat with a feather, and it 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: was shoes, pointy shoes. Sure, um so they if it 114 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: sounds a lot like um, pimps, seventies pimps. Yeah, where 115 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: to you? Not too far off? I guess I think 116 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: you could make an argument that it was a predecessor 117 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: of that. And in fact, you mentioned Malcolm X favorite 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: ZOOS suits. I didn't realize this today, but in researching 119 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: zo suits, Malcolm X used to be called Detroit Red, 120 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: who was in fact a pimp. Yeah, and he apparently 121 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: got his education in Harlem and became Malcolm X. Did 122 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: you not see the movie? No, it was good. From 123 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: what I remember from the awesome Spike Lee movie was 124 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: that he was into the zoot scene earlier. And then 125 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: once he you know, became Malcolm X and uh not, 126 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: what was his original name, Shabaz? Yes, I believe so 127 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: Malcolm Shabaz. So once he became Malcolm X and got 128 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: serious about the civil rights, he ditched the zoot suit 129 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: and stuff and a little more traditionally garbed right. Um, 130 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: another way, So the zoos suit you you just nailed 131 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: it on the head. You said, the zoos suit scene. 132 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: It was very much part of a scene, part of 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: the Harlem renaissance. Um. It was part of the pacho 134 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: scene out in Los Angeles, which we'll talk about. Pacho, Pacho, pachuco, pachuco. 135 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: I used, I like slang on top of slang, pacho. Um. 136 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: And so it was kind of the uniform of this 137 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: certain kind of scene, apparently the upscale black nightclubs of Harlem. 138 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: Like if if you saw an African American man walking 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: around where in a zoot suit, you're like, that guy 140 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: is a high roller and he knows how to get 141 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: into the good clubs. I thought you were gonna bust 142 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: out some Cab Callaway slang. Well, you mentioned Cab Callaway 143 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: was one of the the people who love zoos suits, 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: and he wrote a dictionary of slang, of jive slang. 145 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: Thank you. I could not be square if I tried um, 146 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: And one of the one of the words that he 147 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: put down was zoot which he says means exaggerated. It 148 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: turns out that there's a whole lot of mystery surrounding 149 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: the origins of zoot suit. But if I may, in 150 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: Cab Callaway's jive slang, describe what a zoot suit looks like, 151 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: you did a great job in normal, square, corny terms. 152 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: But if you want to talk like a hepcat from 153 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: the jive jump zoot suit era, you would describe it 154 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: as a killer dealer coat with a drape shape, real 155 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: pleats and shoulders padded like a lunatic cell. Well, it's 156 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: interesting that he said drape because originally they were known 157 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: as drape suits and even advertised as extreme quote extreme 158 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: drapes in newspapers. Yeah pretty cool. Yeah, So the zoosus 159 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: hanging out there, it's kind of weird. Ralph Ellison wrote 160 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: about UM wrote about it in as an Invisible Man. 161 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: His novel The Narrator encounters um three young and extravagantly 162 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: dressed blacks in their zoos suits, and he says that 163 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: they were the stewards of something uncomfortable. So he's saying, like, 164 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: there's just it's almost like it was. It's the same 165 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: as if you're if you saw a bunch of raid 166 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: kids wearing like the stupid pants yes in the nineties 167 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, or hip hop kids today, it 168 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: was this. It was the same thing, except this was 169 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: much more upscale, right than that. But it was basically 170 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: lands today. Yeah, that people have trouble walking in, but 171 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: they're still gotta have that look, you know, right, because 172 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: that's what the cool kids do exactly. So this was 173 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: you could would argue the original American version of counter 174 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: culture dress agreed, and it grew out of Harlem and 175 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: was later adopted by um Mexican Americans or Latino Americans 176 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Yeah, what's this one bit that it 177 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: could have originated in Gainesville, Georgia? How about that? So yeah, 178 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's some origin stories, right, and yeah, 179 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: and they're none of them are the same, right, and 180 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: they're all very different. No, but I do like that 181 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: when you're talking about from Gainesville, what is it? Yeah? 182 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: They a man, a bus driver, I'm sorry, bust worker 183 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: named Clyde Duncan from New York. Um came back to 184 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: New York with one and said he bought it in Gainesville, Georgia, 185 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: And allegedly, uh, he had been inspired by Gone with 186 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: the Wind and wanted to look like Rhet Butler and 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: so got a Taylor in Gainesville to make him this sing. 188 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: I'd like to go with that story. And well, the 189 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: New York Times put that story forth and they said 190 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: it basically on it quickly in and um that was 191 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: the story for many many years until his oriens actually 192 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: started to put real effort and thought it into the 193 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: zoot suits. Um, and they found that there It's possibly true, 194 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: but most likely uh, it came out of either guys 195 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: like Cab Callaway wearing them or guys like Cab Callaway 196 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: copying people in the jazz scene. And then you know 197 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: it basically going forth like that, asks good m H. Ultimately, 198 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: it seems that it did come out of this era, 199 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: whether it was uh, this Clyde Duncan fella who had 200 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: the idea originally or whatever. You can basically say the 201 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: Harlem Renaissance. Zoot suits came out of that. And you know, 202 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: I knew that. I did not know of its associate 203 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: Asian within the Latino and largely Mexican community. No, but 204 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: that's where like really started to It switched when it 205 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: hit the Latino American community. Before it was just like, 206 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: I'm wealthy, I can get into good clubs. I'm part 207 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: of this club scene in Harlem. Um. When it hit 208 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles and was taken up by the pachos Um Square, Uh, 209 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: it changed, it transformed, It turned into something political and 210 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: became ultimately a sign of defiance. Yeah. In the World 211 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: War Two, you know, everyone knows that there was there 212 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: was rationing going on everything from food to metals and 213 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: ultimately wool and cloth. So wearing a zoot suit, which 214 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: required an abundance of cloth was deemed not patriotic because 215 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: you're basically flaunting, Hey, I don't care about the war effort. 216 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear my zoot suit. That's more important to me, 217 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: right exactly. So. Um, In in the forties, the War 218 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: Production Board basically said we need to cut back all 219 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: fabric use in the States by and to help you. 220 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: Here is the new American suit. It's streamline, it uses 221 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: less fabric. As long as you're making stuff according to these, um, 222 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: these sketches, your patriotic, you're American, You're within the law. Right. 223 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam wanted to squear tight clothes pretty much. And 224 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: if you think about if you look at the suits 225 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties and after the forties, Um, 226 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: the American the classic American suit is narrow, narrow cut, 227 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: the cuffs are high. Yeah. Um, so I wonder if 228 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: that came out of I'm sure it did, but you 229 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: can take what they were saying a different way, and 230 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: that Uncle Sam's telling you to dress like this, and 231 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: everybody dressed like that. So zoos suits immediately became, um, 232 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: a symbol of defiance. Anybody who wore him was saying, 233 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, up yours, Uncle Sam. Uh. And it was 234 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 1: ultimately illegal to man facture or advertise as zoot suit 235 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: or anything that fell outside of those American suits. So incredibly, 236 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: bootleg and underground tailors grew up to make and sell 237 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: zoot suits, and at the same time, especially in Los Angeles, 238 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: it had an association with UH gang activity, criminal activity 239 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: and thuggery, largely because of newspapers that would call them, 240 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, zoot suitors committing crimes. They would you know, 241 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: label people in its particular clothing as being criminals. Essentially. Yeah, well, 242 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: racism is definitely nothing new in this country, and it 243 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: was um hot and heavy in the late thirties early 244 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: forties in Los Angeles among um it was mainly targeted, 245 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: I think, toward Latino Americans, but it's not like African 246 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Americans didn't get the brunt of it as well. But 247 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: basically it was white people in California were like, hey, 248 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of you these days, so you're making 249 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: us a little nervo us and um, you wearing the 250 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: zoots suit is easy to target. It just so happened 251 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: that the group that they were targeting was actually kind 252 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: of homogeneous people who wore zoos suits, kind of wore 253 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: them in defiance, but also identified themselves with them, right, 254 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: the pachos. It was a statement of independence, not necessarily 255 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: thumbing your nose at the United States, but just hey, 256 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: I'm independent, I'm Latino, I'm living in Los Angeles, and 257 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: this is our look. So the pachos, Yeah, the pachucos, 258 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: the pachos. I'm seeing pachos right here, Octavio pa said, pachos. Yeah, okay, Um, 259 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: So the pachos were it's They weren't an import from Mexico. 260 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: They were a real American hybrid. They were a second 261 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: generation UM Latino American kids who, ironically, because of the 262 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: war effort, were latch key kids. Their parents were off 263 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: working the night shift UM for war production and they 264 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: were basically left to them their own devices. They called 265 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: themselves twenty four hour orphans, the first latch key kids 266 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: and um. They were also arguably the first rebels, and 267 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: out of their emergence in America, UM came the whole 268 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: concept of juvenile delinquency. Yeah, I love that one quote 269 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: from Octavio pass Can I read that. He said the 270 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: zoot suit was a symbol of love and joy or 271 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: horror and loathing, an embodiment of liberty, of disorder, of 272 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: the forbidden. So it was the single fashion item was 273 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: at the same time asserting your independence and individuality as 274 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: well as what white folk saw as thumb in their nose, 275 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: the white man. Basically, Um, and I guess that's exactly 276 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: what they were doing, because, as you said, like they 277 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily wearing the zoos suit as a statement. They 278 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: weren't anti war protesters, but it was more like, you 279 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: know what, I'm sick of you racist white people, and 280 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not going to hide my identity. I'm not 281 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: going to try to blend in. I'm not going to 282 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: go back to my traditional roots from Mexico because I 283 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: wasn't born here, but I'm not gonna, you know, join 284 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: the service and wear an American suit like like. So 285 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: this is this was the compromise, and it ticked white 286 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: people off like crazy, especially in Los Angeles. Yeah. Well, 287 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: at the time, in southern California, there was an enormous 288 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: presence of UM service manager who were waiting to ship 289 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: out to the Pacific Theater from California. Yeah, and they were, 290 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, rubbing elbows with these guys that a lot 291 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: of people thought were gang members and zoot suitors, and 292 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: they rubbed elbows not in a very good way either, 293 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: which you know, ultimately led to the zoot Suit riots. 294 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: But there were some pretty striking events that led up 295 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: to that NTE summer. So one of the things you 296 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 1: said you mentioned was that they were were getting negative press, right, 297 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: So people in zoos suits were associated with things like um. Uh, 298 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: let me see quote. Um, the record already reveals killing 299 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: stabbings in cases of innocent women having been molested by 300 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: zoot suit gangsters. That's from the Los Angeles Examiner. And 301 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: uh the article was titled police must clean up l 302 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: a hoodlumism, which is not a word, right, but so 303 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: so there's this joint effort of um just general racism 304 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: among whites in the in the general public UM, and 305 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: servicemen waiting to be deployed specifically, and the Los Angeles 306 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: media kind of fanning the flames, that's right. And then 307 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: the Sleepy Lagoon murder happened. The Sleepy Lagoon case Sleepy Lagoon, 308 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: Josh was the reservoir by the l A River. It's 309 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: not there anymore. Is that fascinting? It's like a plastics 310 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: plant there now there's no reservoir. Yes, so don't go 311 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: looking for it. Even though they said it's roughly it 312 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: was at fifty Slaws and Boulevard in Maywood. I know 313 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: where that is, actually. I think it's on the way 314 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: to the airport. Uh So the Sleepy Lagoon case. UM. 315 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: At the time, Mexican Americans were denied access to public 316 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: pools and swimming holes and stuff like that, so they 317 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: used Sleepy Lagoon as a big hangout where they would 318 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: go and listen to music and swim and have a 319 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: good time. Um. In August to n uh, the body 320 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: of Jose Diaz was found at this reservoir. And what 321 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: I gathered there was a big party, like a big 322 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: house party, where a fight broke out and one guy 323 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: ended up getting killed. And as a result, they rounded 324 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: up three to four hundred Mexican American youths, had a 325 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: corrupt trial where they basically denied the many civil rights, 326 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: cooked up evidence, had no evidence, had no physical evidence, 327 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: had no witnesses, nothing of the sort, and they basically 328 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: pinned that murder on twelve guys. Is that right? Nine kids? Yeah, 329 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: but they railroaded nine with no evidence that the guy 330 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: had even been murdered. And eventually the Sleepy Lagoon Defense 331 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: Committee and the U. S. District Court of Appeals overturned 332 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: that as a miscarriage of justice. Right, but the damage 333 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: was already done. Yeah, and his killer, incidentally, was never found. 334 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: They never singled anyone out, which is sad. That's kind 335 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: of lost a lot of times, I think. But at 336 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: the same time, you can't just cook up a case 337 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: against dudes that were there and say that they did 338 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: it exactly. So Um. The press attention that the Sleepy 339 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: Lagoon case received just fan the flames further and further. Um. 340 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: And then uh in June no May of Yeah, that's 341 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: when things really started to take a term for the worst. 342 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: That's right, UM. I guess about a dozen servicemen I 343 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: think Navy boys were um down in East l A. 344 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: And uh, a few of him approached some girls. One 345 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: of them kept walking, and the one that kept walking 346 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: past a group of pouchos who were wearing zoot suits 347 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: and when when he passed um, one of them apparently 348 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: raised his hand and what the guy took as a 349 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: threatening manner, So the serviceman grabbed his arm, and right 350 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: after that everything went black because somebody knocked him over 351 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: the back of his head with something and he fell 352 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: and broke his jaw in two places. Okay, the other 353 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: guy to see this, the other guy to see it, 354 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: but before they even react, the the pouchos jump them, 355 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: and these eleven other servicemen fight their way out and 356 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: fight their way over to where the guy is laying 357 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: the guy with who's knocked out with the broken jaw 358 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: and him and get him out of there. So this 359 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: is not this is not bode well for um Mexican 360 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: American white relations in Los Angeles. A few days after that, 361 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: like revenge is on the mind of everybody after news 362 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: of this gets out, Yeah, big time, especially in the 363 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: mid military community. And basically sort of the same thing 364 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: happened main Street East l A on June three eleven. 365 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Sailors got off a bus and there were words with 366 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: a gang of young Mexicans. And when I say gang, 367 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: I should say group, and we shouldn't say necessarily Mexicans. 368 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: The likelihood was that they were Mexicans and the authorities, 369 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: but there they were Latino Americans, Okay. I tried to 370 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: get to the whole bottom of the word Chicano as well. 371 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: I know hispanic is from Ronald Reagan, is it? And 372 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: it's basically it insinuates that everybody from Central or Latin 373 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: America or South America comes from Hispaniola. Well, and what 374 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: I found from Chicano was that it was a derogatory 375 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: term early on, very negative, but it meant specifically Mexican 376 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: American and then later I believe they some some of 377 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: them chose to embrace that word and pride. Yeah there 378 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: was sixties. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I don't know where 379 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: it stands today, so let's just say it as watched 380 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: ska mm hmmm. So they ran into this group of 381 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: young Latinos dressed in zoot suits, gotten an argument. The sailors, 382 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: of course claimed that they were jumped, although it's unclear 383 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: exactly how it started, and the l A p D 384 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: responded and with a group of off duty officers and 385 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: on duty officers, officers calling themselves the Vengeance Squad, and 386 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: they basically took it upon themselves to clean up the 387 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: streets of East l A to the cops rough house style. 388 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: The cops, including off duty cops, took on the name 389 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: the Vengeance Squad and went down to the Latin American Quarters, 390 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: Latino American Quarters and just started beating people up. Yeah, 391 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: and this really really set off what would be known 392 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: as the zoot Suit Riots. The next day, on June four, 393 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: about two hundred U. S. Navy servicemen jumped in a 394 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: bunch of taxis went to East l A. And a caravan, Yeah, 395 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: and a caravan like a mob essentially and started beating 396 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: up Mexican kids, twelve and thirteen year old boys, clubbing them, 397 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: stripping them of their clothes, burning their clothes those That 398 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: was the first group they encountered, and a bunch of 399 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: adults tried to intervene. They got Club two. Then after that, 400 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't just people wearing zoot suits. It was any 401 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: Latino American that they saw. They stormed movie theaters, they 402 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: stormed bars, they stormed like and yeah, they pulled them 403 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: off the street cars. Yeah, they and black guys got 404 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: caught up in it too. African American guy on on 405 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: the street car. And I think it wasn't Watts m 406 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: who was pulled off and beat into a pulp by 407 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: servicemen just because he happened to be sitting there and 408 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: was black. It was literally a riot and it was 409 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: perpetrated by white servicemen for several days. It was known 410 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: as the zoot Suit Riots. Cops were there, but they 411 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: had orders to not arrest any of the servicemen, so 412 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: they were kind of given carte blanche for a few days. 413 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: So for a few days. Finally the Los Angeles City 414 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: Council comes to it, since its in bans the presence 415 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: of any servicemen um in that area of Los Angeles 416 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: and issues in ordinance whereby zoots suits are prohibited. And 417 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: in the end a hundred and fifty people were injured 418 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: in the riots. Police arrested more than five hundred Latinos 419 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: on charges ranging from riding to vagrancy. And I don't 420 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: know if any servicemen were arrested. I think a bagel 421 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: number servicemen is probably a good guess. I couldn't find any. 422 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: Let's not say it didn't happen, but my feelings it 423 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: was probably zero. And they, you know, the local press 424 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: got ahold of this and called it a quote cleansing 425 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: effect and said it was a pretty great thing went 426 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: on in the city, when in fact it was one 427 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: of the darkest, some of the darkest days of Los 428 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: Angeles in their history. Pretty sad it is. It's pretty 429 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: sad and strange story. Yeah, do you, I mean, is 430 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: there anything else do this? Um? No, I don't. The 431 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: aftermath is, oh, I'll sell you. One interesting thing from 432 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: the article was that years later, young Russian Soviet UH 433 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: teenagers would wear zoot suits as an act of defiance 434 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: against communist Against communism, so this article of clothing, this 435 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: fashion statement, was a lot more than that. It's pretty interesting. 436 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: And this is one of those weird moments in history 437 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: where it's not just like, did you know the zoot 438 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: suit caused this riot? And then you find out that 439 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: it didn't. Really, this genuinely started it. This was part 440 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: of this made um. These the pouchos easily identified targets. 441 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: The whole reason they were wearing it was out of defiance, 442 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: and it just irked the establishment. The zoot suit caused 443 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: these riots. It's crazy. It is crazy, um and it 444 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: had another lasting legacy, If I may it um it 445 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: juvenile delinquency. The whole concept of that coming out of 446 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: this area and this era, um I believe, gave rise 447 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: to the like a slew of great movies, Rebel without 448 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: a Cause, The Wild Ones and If I May I 449 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: was a teenage werewolf starring Michael Landon who was a 450 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: character settled with a terrible affliction of throwing milk. So 451 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: there's this little clip. I would like to say, Okay, 452 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: I put you out of fight three times myself in 453 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: the last month. You're just lucky to want any formal complaints. 454 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: The time before this and the supermarket. It was the 455 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: checker's mistake. Yeah, but you didn't even give him a 456 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: chance to rectify. At Boom, You throw a cart in 457 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: the milk right at him. It contained bowline growth hormone, 458 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: and he turned into a giant cow. So that was 459 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: the Mystery Science Theater three thousand take of Michael Landon, 460 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: of course, and his milk throwing problem, which probably wouldn't 461 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: have existed had zoot suits not coming about. I've never 462 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: heard of that movie. I was a teenage werewolf. Yeah, 463 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: I wonder if they picked him because of his huge 464 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: mound of hair, maybe because he did look kind of werewolf. 465 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: He right out of the games close. Yeah, even without 466 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: the Mr Science Theater three thousand, guys um discussing it, 467 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: I guess just fun to watch it is. It's it's 468 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: kind of a cool movie. Yeah, I look forward podcast 469 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: on the Stonewall Riots. We're gonna cover that soon too. 470 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: That's another overlooked blight of American history. Yes, we like 471 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: to point these out. Um. If you want to learn 472 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: more about all the stuff we talked about, like Cab 473 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: Callaway's jib dictionary, you should search for that on your 474 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: favorite search engine. It's pretty cool. Yeah, you could also 475 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: search for zoot suits Smithsonian. Um, that'll bring up a 476 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: pretty cool article from I think it's pretty comprehensive. And then, 477 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: of course the article on our own beloved side is 478 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: excellent as well. You can type in zoot suits zo 479 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: O T space S U I T S. If you 480 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: haven't known what we've been talking about this entire time, 481 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: you want to type that into the search bar how 482 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. And since I said search bar, friends, neighbors, 483 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: it is time for listener mail. You know, some of 484 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: that jive, cab, callaway, jazz jive is still like a 485 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: few of those words I recognized is still being used. 486 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of cool. Oh yeah, he established a lot 487 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: of them. Um Like, I'm not nearly cool enough to 488 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: speak like this on a regular basis, but that's all 489 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: I want in life. Really, Like Corny came came from 490 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: this era really groovy, Okay, Um, I say groovy a 491 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: lot moo juice for milk? Never heard that? You have 492 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: not heard that? Um, there's Buddy G as a guy Like, thanks, 493 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: Buddy G. I've heard that. Um, but it's g h 494 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: e okay, Um, crumb crushers for Keith nice freebe no charge, 495 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: broad us free. That that came from there, give me 496 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: some skin, shake hands. It all came out of this era. Yeah, 497 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: and we would not have one of the better parts 498 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: of the movie Airplane. Yeah if if Cab Callaway and 499 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: his cronies head and to come up with this. And 500 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: I wish I had one cell of my body that 501 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: was as cool as Cab Calloway was. He was a 502 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: cool dude. You know. Many the moocher like has a 503 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: lot of drug references in it. Yes, Smokey is cokey, 504 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: he's like cocaine. And they talked about kicking the gong around, 505 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: which apparently smoking opium and many. Actually in the extended version, 506 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: Um is taken to an asylum where she dies and 507 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: that's why the song ends with poor men, poor man, 508 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: poor man. All right, Josh, I'm gonna call this, uh 509 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: polygraph inside scoop. Oh, yeah, it's a pretty good one. 510 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Did anybody ever offer you a polygraph test? Okay, that's 511 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: right now. Just listen to podcast, oh, he said, Dear Josh, 512 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: Chuck and Gary, I just listened to your podcast on polygraphs. 513 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: I thought my personal experience might add a little to 514 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: the discussion. I was asked at one point in my 515 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: life to submit to polygraph exams as a witness and 516 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: a crime. I was interviewed by two different polygraphers at 517 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,239 Speaker 1: different times. One piece of equipment I did not hear 518 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: you describe was a pad that you sit on, which 519 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: registered whether or not you fidgeted during questions. I'm glad 520 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: you said fidgeted instead of what. Okay. This may not 521 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: be standard, though, because only the first examiner used one. 522 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: I was not given a pretest like you described in 523 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: either case. However, they did tell me all six of 524 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: the questions in advance and uh, which is sort of 525 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: like a pretest. I guess yeah, he just didn't have 526 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,239 Speaker 1: to answer them, and the polygrapher asked him to make 527 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: sure he understood all of the six questions. The first 528 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: was something like are their lights on in the room? 529 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: And in both cases there were questions like are you worried? 530 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,239 Speaker 1: I will ask a question we did not go over uh. 531 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,959 Speaker 1: Then I got different versions of the same question, for example, 532 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: did you see a man in a blue jacket? Or 533 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: was a man wearing a blue jacket at the scene. 534 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: After the questions were done, I got a break from 535 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: the machine. Then I got all the questions again in 536 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: a different order, followed by another break, and then another 537 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: round of the same questions. Asking each question in a 538 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: different way multiple times was apparently to reduce the possibility 539 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: of reporting a false reading. But I did notice a 540 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: couple of hinky things guys. For example, the first examiner 541 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: had me closed my eyes so that the readings would 542 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: be guaranteed to be in response to his questions. The 543 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: second guy did not ask me to do so, and 544 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: when I asked him if I should, he said it 545 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: didn't matter. Pretty interesting. You also mentioned techniques for fooling 546 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: a polygraph. According to a sign in the waiting room, 547 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: these techniques can actually cause false positives more than false negatives, 548 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: though it's probably a biased source. Although Yeah. Also they 549 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: ask you to keep your feet flat on the ground 550 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: through the tests, so the attack trick wouldn't be possible, 551 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: And that is from matt Few and Matthew says. I, 552 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: by the way, am one of the few listeners who 553 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: would be thrilled if you included tribal drums in the 554 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: background of your episodes. Oh yeah, with you reading listener 555 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: mail throughout the whole time. Yeah, all those combined with 556 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: the track of us just doing our thing right? So 557 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: is that why we're hearing this right now? Weird? I 558 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: hadn't noticed it. Interesting, when did that start? I don't 559 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: know where it is? Well, okay, well, thank you Matthew um. Also, 560 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: we want to thank our house band of tribal drummers, 561 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: and we want to thank our producer Jerry for bending 562 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: to our every whim. Yeah, if you have any info 563 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: about a cool little piece of history that may be overlooked, 564 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: we want to hear about it, and we may even 565 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: podcast about it, and we may even be courteous enough 566 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: to give you credit for bringing it up. Yeah. Uh, 567 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: you can tweet it to us, although it would have 568 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: to be pretty short as far as history goes, but 569 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: if you wanted to, it's s y SK podcast um 570 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: or on Facebook at facebook dot com slash stuff you 571 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,439 Speaker 1: Should Know. We also have a couple of spoken word 572 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: albums up on iTunes under Stuff you Should Know, Super 573 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: Stuff Guide. They'll cost you, but they're worth it, and 574 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: you can reach us by email. Chalk That's Right at 575 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. Stuff you 576 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 577 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart radio because at the 578 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 579 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,