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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now with part two of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Christie Luther. Right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 1: general sponsors.

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Speaker 2: How are you speaking at Saddlebacked Church? So for fil

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Speaker 2: don't know, it's Recordings church. Yes, four thousand people anyways,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people have purpose driven life. Yes, this

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Speaker 2: is a book, but like, yes, why is this former

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Speaker 2: prisoner speaking in front of four thousand people at church?

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Speaker 3: That's a great question. Well, I was involved with Celebrate

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Speaker 3: Recovery and.

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Speaker 2: This say tell people what that as real recovery.

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Speaker 3: Is for life's hurts, habits and hang ups. So it's whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's not just drugs and alcohol. It's if you have

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Speaker 3: issues with anger or divorce, or pornography or gambling or overeating,

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Speaker 3: everything any that you have.

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Speaker 2: So it's like AA for everything everything.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's wonderful. It's a faith based twelve step

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Speaker 3: program based on the Beatitudes. And the State rep used

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Speaker 3: to come to the prison where I was going to

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Speaker 3: celebrate recovery and just we became friends and thought my

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Speaker 3: story was something to share and they were going to summit,

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Speaker 3: which is why there was four thousand people there. Celebrate

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Speaker 3: Recovery Summit every year in the summertime, people gather from

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Speaker 3: all over the world to come and get juiced up

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Speaker 3: celebrate recovery and their recovery. And he submitted my name

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Speaker 3: and my testimony to Cheryl and John Baker, who created

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Speaker 3: Celebrate Recovery at Rick Warren's Church. They invited me to

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Speaker 3: share my testimony. So I have twice out there and

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Speaker 3: I speak and I've spoken here in South Haven. I've

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Speaker 3: given my testimony when I was here in Memphis last time,

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Speaker 3: and so I've been a state rep for Celebrate Recovery.

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Speaker 3: I really it helped change my life. God uses as

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Speaker 3: a catalystic changed my life. It gave me tools about

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Speaker 3: you know, forgiveness and amends and making my side of

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Speaker 3: the street clean and all the things.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, wait, so it was the second time you

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Speaker 2: spoke at Celebrated Recovery at settleback after you had started

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Speaker 2: the RISE program.

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Speaker 3: So it was like an update if you will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually did it people.

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Speaker 3: It's it's really yeah. It was an update for what

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Speaker 3: I do now. So I was just really grateful and humble,

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Speaker 3: you know. And then the one part that caused me

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Speaker 3: to go to prison. Always just just tears at my heart,

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Speaker 3: you know, to share that in front of that many people,

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Speaker 3: but then to come to find out people will tell

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Speaker 3: me afterward, hey that was me too, or I did that,

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Speaker 3: or that happened to me or my family member. So

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Speaker 3: you know, I mean great company. We're all, you know,

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Speaker 3: rebels and prodigals. Well most of us are not you,

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Speaker 3: but most.

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Speaker 2: Of us are rebels and prodigals.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: All right. So you start the RISE program. Obviously successful,

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Speaker 2: you're presenting it back in front of four thousand people,

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Speaker 2: but it was not easy getting there.

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Speaker 3: No. I spoke to a lady the other day and

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Speaker 3: she said, gosh, you know, you just go in and

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Speaker 3: have school at the prison and everything's cool. And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you didn't see. You know, we've been doing this

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Speaker 3: for ten years. You didn't see all the prayers and

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Speaker 3: the tears and the I'm going to throw in the

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Speaker 3: towel moments, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, and how many years before the ten years too? Like,

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Speaker 2: how long did it take you to get started? So

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Speaker 2: I and how many doors close in your face? I

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Speaker 2: take us through a story.

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Speaker 3: So seventeen years ago is when I feel like God

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Speaker 3: spoke to me at the shampoo ble about coming back.

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Speaker 3: I just started the nonprofit in twenty fifteen. I filled

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Speaker 3: out the paperwork, did all that. We do not get

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Speaker 3: state or federal funding whatsoever. It's all private donations or

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Speaker 3: I'm the grant writer also, and not everybody believed in it.

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Speaker 3: They're like, well, where's your budget. I don't have one.

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Speaker 3: It's our first year. Well which your success rate? I

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Speaker 3: don't have one. It's the first year. So to have

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Speaker 3: many doors shut in my face, I just learned to

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Speaker 3: kick doors down, you know. And I just learned that

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Speaker 3: I needed one person to just believe that this was

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Speaker 3: going to manifest, and even Department of Corrections that were like, well,

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Speaker 3: we'll give you the space, we'll try it out right,

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Speaker 3: And it just gained momentum. And in nine years March

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Speaker 3: twenty seventh will be nine years, we've only had one

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Speaker 3: person returned back to prison. And all that time, so.

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Speaker 2: One person out of how many.

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Speaker 3: Out of we've we're at two hundred and eighty six

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Speaker 3: students right now that have been enrolled and or graduated

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Speaker 3: in all that time. Yeah, one person and that only

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Speaker 3: happened in the last six months and I was a

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Speaker 3: little disappointed with that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's a recidivism rate of zero point three percent.

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Speaker 2: You know what it is nationally or in Oklaholma.

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Speaker 3: I think it's like twenty one, twenty one, twenty four percent.

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Speaker 2: The recidivism rate is sixty seven percent, meaning that two

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Speaker 2: thirds of people who come out of prison will.

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Speaker 3: Go I had no idea what they thought, like three

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Speaker 3: years wow.

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Speaker 2: So zero point three percent compared to sixty seven percent

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Speaker 2: is crazy.

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Speaker 3: I can't even it's God's program. I can't even, you know.

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Speaker 3: Someone asked me, like, what's the secret sauce. I'm like

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Speaker 3: Jesus Is said, I don't know. We just follow the

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Speaker 3: lead from the Holy Spirit. It's it's way more than

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Speaker 3: cosmetology and barbering school. It's so much more than that.

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Speaker 3: We do a devotional every day. I will not allow

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Speaker 3: them to write their Department of Corrections number on any

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Speaker 3: of our paperwork. I call them by their first name.

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Speaker 3: God calls us by our first name. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: really important because I understood what it was like to

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Speaker 3: lose your identity during that time of incarceration, and I

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Speaker 3: just want them to know that they're valuable no matter

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Speaker 3: what the charge is no matter if they have life

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Speaker 3: without parole and they're never getting out, they need to

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Speaker 3: I need them to know that God views them as valuable.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I that's what we try to retrain them,

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Speaker 3: you know, to believe that.

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Speaker 2: All right, tell me about the first corrections facility convinced

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Speaker 2: to do this. You're talking about knocking down doors, and

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Speaker 2: you need to convince one person. Yes, that seems the

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Speaker 2: most important roadblock to push through. Is there an interesting

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Speaker 2: story of the one person who ultimately made the decision

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Speaker 2: of we're going to let this crazy lady in here.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And it was doctor Pittman, So I went after

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Speaker 3: I met her. It took a couple of years actually

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Speaker 3: to find the location. I mean, space is a premium,

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Speaker 3: you know, in the facility, and by state Board Cosmetology

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Speaker 3: rules and regulations, there's a specific square footage you have

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Speaker 3: to have to be able to establish a school twenty

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Speaker 3: two hundred square feet. So trying to find that just

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Speaker 3: an empty space and a prison is hard to come by.

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Speaker 3: But there was a small warehouse space and she commandeered

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Speaker 3: it at four o'clock on a Friday, and she went

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Speaker 3: in there and she said, this is going to be

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Speaker 3: for the cosmetology school. And so she called me and

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Speaker 3: we sat down with the curriculum and I submitted all

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Speaker 3: the paperwork to the Cosmetology Board. Where the first licensed

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Speaker 3: cosmetology school inside the women's prison in Oklahoma, and now

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Speaker 3: we have two that are licensed in Oklahoma. But it

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Speaker 3: was a lot. It took a lot of meetings there.

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Speaker 3: I had a lot of naysayers. I had a lot

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Speaker 3: of the correctional officers that were like, hey, she used

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Speaker 3: to be here, like what do you mean give her

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Speaker 3: razors and scissors? And they just couldn't see the vision.

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Speaker 3: They couldn't see how it would, you know, happen because

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Speaker 3: it had never had before. So it was a pretty innovative,

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Speaker 3: crazy idea to make happen. And so for the first

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Speaker 3: six months I didn't even take a paycheck. I quit

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Speaker 3: my teaching job. My boss thought I was nuts. She said,

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Speaker 3: that's your retirement, that's your you know, that's your savings,

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Speaker 3: that your medical What are you thinking? I said, I

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Speaker 3: had to That's what God said. I have to quit

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Speaker 3: so I can go work in the prison. And I

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Speaker 3: and I did, and the first class was hard. I

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Speaker 3: was the teacher and the grant writer, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know that I slept at all, because I would be

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Speaker 3: up all night writing grants and asking and begging basically.

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Speaker 3: And we had one small, tiny little foundation in that

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Speaker 3: county outside of Oklahoma County, real tiny little county, and

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Speaker 3: you could only apply if you were in that tiny location.

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Speaker 3: And the prison is I said, please just come see

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Speaker 3: just come see the girls and see what they're doing

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Speaker 3: and hopefully that'll win your heart. And they just melted.

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Speaker 3: And so ever since they've been great partners with us,

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Speaker 3: and then it's just grown after that, and it gave

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Speaker 3: us leverage, you know, for other grants, and we've won

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Speaker 3: a ton of different awards, and the Innovation Award, which

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Speaker 3: is a pretty prestigious award in Oklahoma programs making a

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Speaker 3: difference for women and children. We've won that a few times.

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Speaker 3: And we've just grown like crazy, which is scary. I

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Speaker 3: just always tell the girls, buckle up, put your seatbelt on.

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Speaker 3: You know, we don't know what we're doing today.

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Speaker 2: So I think you said you were the first in

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma to do this. Are there any others nationwide?

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Speaker 3: There are some nationwide, and so ironically enough, I'm doing

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Speaker 3: a talk at the NABO, which is the National Association

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Speaker 3: for barber Boards and I'm on the cosmetology board in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: So my talk is going to be on how to

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Speaker 3: establish a school inside of a prison and how to

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Speaker 3: operate and maintain. So that's next month in South Carolina.

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Speaker 3: So I'm excited about that. But there are in Pennsylvania, Ohio.

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Speaker 3: I think California has a few, and like.

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Speaker 2: Five can across the country, I.

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Speaker 3: Think Actually I think Pearl, Mississippi might Yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: think there are a few, but not too many. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so well, we love all of our Vegas has one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, all of our regular listeners know this, but

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Speaker 2: Bill has this line that magic happens when your passions

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Speaker 2: and your abilities needed opportunity. Yes, and so we featured

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Speaker 2: over one hundred and twenty five different crazy models on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, and all fueled by different people's passions and abilities.

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Speaker 2: And this is one that's I think really unique and

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Speaker 2: applical to anybody who has their cosmetology license. And this

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Speaker 2: could be a really interesting way to use the skills

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Speaker 2: that you have to help other people.

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Speaker 3: It was just that it was that, I mean I

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Speaker 3: already had my cosmetology license. I mean perfect fit right.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, you see a need, you have been called.

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Speaker 3: And while I was there, I saw the need for

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Speaker 3: I knew I was getting out and to my license

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Speaker 3: and to a career path. And it's one of the

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Speaker 3: few state licenses that you can have in Oklahoma as

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Speaker 3: a felon, as a cosmetology license. And so I thought,

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Speaker 3: if it works for me, surely it can work for them,

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Speaker 3: you know. And so I wanted to help my sisters.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to help them out, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: let's let's do this. It's a win win because on

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Speaker 3: the outside world, as we call it, we have flat tires,

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Speaker 3: and children are sick, and you have you know, snow days,

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Speaker 3: and you have all these bills and things that you

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Speaker 3: have to do or you know, they have to take

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Speaker 3: care of. But inside and forgive me, but you literally

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Speaker 3: have the time to sit there and to do something productive.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, for most correctional facilities programs are

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Speaker 3: way on the bottom of the list and their budget,

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Speaker 3: and so how better to do that? But you come

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Speaker 3: in as a nonprofit. It's no cost to them at all.

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Speaker 3: We fund our program and our non you know, our

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Speaker 3: nonprofit partners and stuff fund the program. And it just

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Speaker 3: seemed like a win win, Like it's my education, it's

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Speaker 3: my textbook. I can give the education to who I want,

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Speaker 3: and I want them to win, you know, I want

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Speaker 3: them to get out and never come back.

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Speaker 2: Do you know how many licenses formally incarcerated people in

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma are able to get?

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Speaker 3: I know you said it's few, but I I don't

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Speaker 3: want to quote. I believe it's under ten.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I think that there'res. I think they've made some room

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Speaker 3: for maybe like electricians and some I don't know that

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Speaker 3: for sure, but I licensing for like nursing and stuff

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Speaker 3: is out, but I think some of the trades, maybe

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Speaker 3: locksmiths are out, I think for Oklahoma.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm gonna ask chat GBT for a second.

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Speaker 2: How many work licenses exist in Oklahoma just in general?

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Speaker 2: So two hundred and ten distinct occupational licenses out there.

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Speaker 3: Right, So it's one of the few. And I would

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Speaker 3: say it's under ten that a felon can have.

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Speaker 2: So you know, thats a change.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it really does. And we even you know, we

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Speaker 3: have even authored our own bill because our school is different.

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Speaker 3: Inside of a prison has different requirements than the outside

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Speaker 3: schools do, so meaning for example, we can't have a

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Speaker 3: private wax room, which is required by state law in

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Speaker 3: a school, but we can't because a Priya the Prison

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Speaker 3: Rape Elimination Act. So they can't be alone. You can't

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Speaker 3: have you know, exposed body parts. So that was out,

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Speaker 3: so that had to change. I can't give someone with

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Speaker 3: you know, in a max facility or a medium facility,

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Speaker 3: razor and scissors and say here's your kid, now go

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Speaker 3: put it over here, like it has to. We have

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Speaker 3: to have a tool cage. We have to have things

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Speaker 3: a little done a little differently. So I have a

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Speaker 3: friend that's a state representative. I said, hey, can you

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Speaker 3: write us a bill that makes us legit and compliant?

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Speaker 3: And so we took our rule some regulation book, turned

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Speaker 3: it upside down and made it compliant to doc So

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Speaker 3: we have our own bill.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Does it pass?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah? The governor signed off on it last year,

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Speaker 3: last May, and we got to all go, I've got

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Speaker 3: to take thirteen people and we got to go meet him.

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Speaker 3: And we have some pretty cool pictures like this with

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Speaker 3: the governor.

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Speaker 2: And did you bring any of your current students?

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Speaker 3: They bring, well, not from the prison.

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Speaker 2: But these that were released graduated. Yeah, okay, talk about

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Speaker 2: how you've seen lives change. I think you talk about

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Speaker 2: it really interesting that just the flip that can happen

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Speaker 2: inside someone's had that they've achieved something themselves.

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Speaker 3: So gratifying, like it's the best work, no offense, but

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Speaker 3: I feel like I had the best job ever. It's

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Speaker 3: so good to watch them just change as humans, whether

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Speaker 3: it's the men or the women. You know, I work

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Speaker 3: primarily with women, but to see them change, like as

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Speaker 3: an instructor, you see that, you know, the education light

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Speaker 3: switch go on, Oh we got it right. But to

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Speaker 3: watch them walk through a death of a parent while

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Speaker 3: they're incarcerated, to get turned down from their judicial review,

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Speaker 3: to lose custody of their children, to walk with them

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Speaker 3: through those extreme hardships, and then to watch them put

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Speaker 3: in the hard work and to graduate and to take

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Speaker 3: that exam, the state exam. State board comes to the

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Speaker 3: prison to test them. That's never happened before. To see

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Speaker 3: them test and get their work permit and get their

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Speaker 3: license and immediately, you know, be reunited with their families

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Speaker 3: and have a job waiting for them. We partner with

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Speaker 3: so many salons that they're able to, you know, go

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Speaker 3: to work right away. But there's something about watching them change.

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Speaker 3: I do some really hard lessons with them, and that's

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Speaker 3: where I find the need. A lot of times. I

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Speaker 3: had one girl and she said, I said, okay, here's

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Speaker 3: the exercise. DOC called me and they said, you have

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Speaker 3: two hours, pack up your stuff and go where you

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Speaker 3: get to live. I go, and they'll just have tears.

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Speaker 3: I said, where are you going to live? Well, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I still have more time. No, two hours,

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Speaker 3: Where are you going? I guess I'm going to the

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Speaker 3: homeless shelter. Oh no, you're not. I guess we need

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Speaker 3: to get a transitional home. That's how that happened. And

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Speaker 3: then I had one girl who during COVID we missed

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Speaker 3: two hundred and forty seven days of school and she

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Speaker 3: got out one hundred hours on her time left to

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Speaker 3: do in class early. Well, where does she go to school?

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Speaker 3: On the outside. I don't know what to do with her.

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Speaker 3: So we have to help her. I guess we'll start

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Speaker 3: at school also, So that's how that happened. And it's

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Speaker 3: when whatever the need is. And then, just like clothing,

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Speaker 3: we began taking clothing donations and so not only are

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Speaker 3: we able to supply clothing, you know, for our girls

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Speaker 3: getting out of prison, but for all the women getting

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Speaker 3: out of prison, to now all the gentlemen that are

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Speaker 3: getting out of prison. And so I was like, man,

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Speaker 3: we're getting so many donations and I'm so grateful, but

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Speaker 3: we have to put these things to work. So what

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Speaker 3: can we do. I know, let's start a thrift store.

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Speaker 3: So that's how that happened. Oh and I need to

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Speaker 3: hire the girls that are out of prison to work

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Speaker 3: in the thrift store. So it just is a when

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Speaker 3: you know, and it's helping meet the needs. It's helping,

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Speaker 3: you know, supply. What we're doing puts back into the program,

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Speaker 3: gives them a job, and some a little bit of pride,

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Speaker 3: you know, personal pride for themselves. And it's just we're

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Speaker 3: just like a big crazy sisterhood. It's really cool.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back. It's figure to the transformation. I

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Speaker 2: think you make a point that I love of. You know,

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Speaker 2: somebody walks up and sees you and they won't even

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Speaker 2: like look at you in their eyes or I mean

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Speaker 2: people say like people's eyes glazed or where they know

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Speaker 2: they're not there. Just somebody who's so down and out,

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Speaker 2: and then to see the transformation that can happen and

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Speaker 2: somebody's just facial expressions.

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Speaker 3: It's just wonderful, it really is. And I we always

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Speaker 3: taken before picture when class starts, and then an after

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Speaker 3: picture and it's like totally different women. And we do

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Speaker 3: some crazy things in there. Like I said, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's one of the exercises that we do. Actually Tuesday

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Speaker 3: this week we opened our ninth class at Mabel Bassett,

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Speaker 3: which is the medium facility. It's the one with death

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Speaker 3: row for the ladies at Oklahoma. So our ninth class

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Speaker 3: and we call it a funeral box. So I have

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Speaker 3: a box and I tell them, on one side of

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Speaker 3: the paper, write down everything you can't do. Now, flip

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Speaker 3: it over and write down all the things that you

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Speaker 3: don't like about yourself. So they're busy, they're writing, they're writing,

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Speaker 3: and I have them folded up real small, and they

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Speaker 3: come and say goodbye to it and put it into

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Speaker 3: the funeral box. And I said, so now you don't

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Speaker 3: get to say those things about yourself. You say goodbye

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Speaker 3: to all that you can't say, I'm fat, I'm ugly,

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Speaker 3: i'm this whatever, I can't do that haircut, I said,

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Speaker 3: because I will say, is that your negative confession? About yourself,

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Speaker 3: and so I just bring it that way and it

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Speaker 3: reminds them that our words are powerful, and the things

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Speaker 3: that people spoke over our lives are not They're not

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Speaker 3: necessarily true. But it's when we begin to believe those

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Speaker 3: truths and those lies or the lies that we call truths,

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Speaker 3: that we lose who we are. And that's what's happened

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Speaker 3: while they're in prison. They forget who they are. They

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Speaker 3: just relate to that number or what they used to have,

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Speaker 3: without any hope to see a future. So we do

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Speaker 3: some crazy we do some crazy stuff in there, and

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Speaker 3: it's the whole it's the whole person, not just here's

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Speaker 3: your cosmetology. I say, we we have cosmetology school under

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Speaker 3: the guise of a you know, of a church or

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Speaker 3: under a faith based organization, and the easy parts of

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Speaker 3: cosmetology and barbering that's just a life skill. Everything else is.

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Speaker 3: It's about healing the whole woman. And it's so gratifying.

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Speaker 2: We actually just had on the founder of the prison

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Speaker 2: yoga projects.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: And similarly, yeah, I mean, yoga is just the tool

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Speaker 2: of the mechanism or you know, with coach Bill being

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Speaker 2: a football coach, football is just the tool of the mechanism.

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Speaker 2: Almost all of our stories it's not actually about that

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Speaker 2: thing about it's more just the vehicle of the in

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Speaker 2: fact lives.

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Speaker 3: It really is, and so it's just so gratifying. It's funny.

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Speaker 3: In the beginning, when we didn't really have a bank account,

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Speaker 3: I started a Facebook page for the Rise program, just

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Speaker 3: putting like little, you know, little scriptures on their little pictures. Oh,

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Speaker 3: here's here's the prison where we're at, like a little

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Speaker 3: small stuff. And it has grown crazy. We've got like

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Speaker 3: seventy two hundred followers or something, and it's all their families,

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Speaker 3: you know. But the beautiful thing is is if you

386
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Speaker 3: think about what you've seen on TV right or I

387
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Speaker 3: don't want to say anyway, but you've seen or just

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Speaker 3: new Blake, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's not it.

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Speaker 3: We're not braining hair, wearing wife beaters. That's not in

391
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Speaker 3: Oklahoma anyway, not in Oklahoma. No fence piper, not in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: We started this Facebook page and I started I got

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Speaker 3: permission from doc to have a camera. There's a camera

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Speaker 3: at the prison, right that's wild And I take pictures

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Speaker 3: every single day of them, and I put them on

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Speaker 3: Facebook and I say Hey, tell your family check out Facebook,

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Speaker 3: you know. And so the stigma that we see on

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Speaker 3: prison movies and you think they're in the hole, they're

399
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 3: in you know, shoe or segregated housing unit. They're only

400
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 3: eating you know, beans, and that's it. And they're you know,

401
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 3: they're miserable and depleted. Like there's college there, and there's

402
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 3: they have a dog program, and they have prison fellowship,

403
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Speaker 3: and they have all these really cool, amazing things, you know.

404
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Speaker 3: But to get into our program, I hold the bar

405
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Speaker 3: pretty high, and they have to rise to that. And

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Speaker 3: the coolest thing is I have one lady and she's

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Speaker 3: sixty and so she works for me now. She works

408
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Speaker 3: in ear lit stock room and her mom and dad

409
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Speaker 3: and family had not come to see her in twenty

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Speaker 3: five years. And so when I began putting her pictures

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Speaker 3: on Facebook, just showing her working on the mannequin or whatever,

412
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Speaker 3: or in the Christmas picture, her mom failed out visitation

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Speaker 3: forms to come see her. And that not only happened

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Speaker 3: to her, but many of our family members came to

415
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: see them during graduation and came to now they visit regularly.

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Speaker 3: They said, it was breaking our heart to think that

417
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Speaker 3: you were there, and it was so miserable and I

418
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Speaker 3: didn't want to see you like that. But I'm seeing

419
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Speaker 3: you smiling, I'm seeing you doing updos and haircuts, and

420
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 3: I see the light in your eyes. I want to

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00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 3: see you, and it's just the family restoration was the

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00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 3: greatest gift and greatest surprise that we didn't even anticipate.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy because you think they had almost even dehumanized

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Speaker 2: their own kids, like you're not a human being. I

425
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: don't want to see you, and you just putting their

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Speaker 2: face on Facebook rehumanize their own children.

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Speaker 3: To them, it's amazing. I put all all three of

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Speaker 3: our schools and we have three, two inside the prison

429
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Speaker 3: and one outside. We just I can't explain the favor

430
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Speaker 3: that we have to be able to do that. And

431
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Speaker 3: they get such encouragement from people who knew them, who

432
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 3: had been incarcerated. They're out now, family members. We've got

433
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: people from all over the world. I've got somebody from

434
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 3: Australia that comment's good going, mate. You know, I'm like, wow,

435
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 3: never never saw that coming, you know, And it's so gratifying.

436
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: So you know a lot about cosmetology, Yeah, but you

437
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: had to figure out this housing thing. Apparently a transitional housing.

438
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: Are your housing experts you or are you just I am?

439
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 2: Now you just figured it out, I know. Now we

440
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,479
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit more about that.

441
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: My goodness, Well it's it was that I the girl

442
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 3: in my class that told me she would live at a

443
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: homeless shelter. I was like, there's no way God would

444
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: be happy with me if I let that happen. Ever,

445
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: and so I began asking. I began looking for properties

446
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: and announcing I'm looking for properties. You know, this is

447
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 3: what I'm doing, and I need it to be you know,

448
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 3: donated to us really and so we had a wonderful

449
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: lady that goes to my church and she bought one.

450
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: It was during COVID, perfect four bedroom, four bath, like

451
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: you know. And we rented from her about a year

452
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 3: and one day she said, you know what, here you go,

453
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 3: here's the whole house.

454
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 2: Have it.

455
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: And so it's paid for and we right now we

456
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 3: have six ladies that live in the house and it's gorgeous.

457
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 3: It's in a great area town. We never put more

458
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: than two ladies in a room together. They lived in prison,

459
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 3: they lived in bunk beds. We're not going to do that.

460
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: So they have their own space. Yeah, she just hand

461
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: us the whole deed to the house.

462
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, is there your own group of army

463
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: of normal folks who've helped you do this? Obviously you've

464
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: done amazing work. But it sounds like doctor Pittman, it

465
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: sounds like this, lady. If there's any other members of your.

466
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: I have I said, I answered to the Lord and

467
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 3: to the board. My board members are incredible. They show up.

468
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 3: They've helped me build and do construction, and I learned, Hey,

469
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: I learned how to do a lot of construction this

470
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 3: year when we're putting the the thrift store together. But yes,

471
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 3: I mean I'm surrounded by an army of incredible prayer

472
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 3: warrior women. For one, that's on my sisterhood, on my graduates,

473
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: and then people from my church. My church is on

474
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: board Victory Church, and uh, they support us monthly. And

475
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 3: then just have bought another house. Just wrote a check

476
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: for it. I mean someone donated, We wrote a check

477
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 3: for that, and my church stepped in and decorated everything.

478
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: It looks like a bougie magazine that you're like, should

479
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 3: I touch this or not? It's just gorgeous, like and

480
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 3: the girls come in it is, Yes, it is. It's

481
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: pretty it's pretty nice. But they come in and the

482
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: girls will cry. And some of them lived in absolute squalor,

483
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 3: you know, with no running water, and for them to

484
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: they just step in and they just cry. They're like,

485
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: I've never seen anything this beautiful, and so they take

486
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: great pride in it. So I'm just surrounded by so

487
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: many amazing people. You know, the prayer covering that I

488
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: get for me for our program, I mean, I can't

489
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: put a price tag on that for sure, but God

490
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 3: has opened up doors. I've got great funders, you know,

491
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: I mean the hobby Lobby family, and we have George

492
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: Kaiser Foundation. I mean, I could just go on and

493
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: on and say how many people have donated to Eel

494
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 3: del mcgaylord. That's a huge family in Oklahoma City. And

495
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: like sight Unseen, they just have gotten wind of us

496
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: or follow us, or see what's going on or seeing

497
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: the fruit of the ministry, and they're like, We're in

498
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 3: on that and continually showing up, not just one and done,

499
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 3: always showing up. And people behind the scenes that do

500
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: all the hard work, that bring all the food in

501
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 3: for the Christmas parties, or that pack the Christmas bags,

502
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: or you know, buy supplies and toilet paper. And I

503
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: mean the girls, my graduates that the God out have

504
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: gone to finish their master instructor license, so their their

505
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: quad license is what we call it, Master instructor for

506
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: cosmetology and barbering and then cosmo and barbering. So there's

507
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 3: four licenses right there, and they're valuable, and that's rare

508
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: in Oklahoma that someone would have those. But they love

509
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: the program. It's changed their life. God's changed their lives

510
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: through that, and they want to give back. So for

511
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: maybe the first year or two, while they're working another

512
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: job in a salon, they'll volunteer. They volunteer, they come

513
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 3: back in, they go to the training for Department of Corrections,

514
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: get their badge, their volunteer badge, come back in and

515
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: then you know, testify and teach cover for me if

516
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: I'm out of town to a podcast, which I'm so

517
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: grateful and they are. But then you know, I'll see

518
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: a shift in them and maybe they don't want to

519
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: be behind the chair as often. Maybe they just feel

520
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 3: God calling them to teach. So I'll recognize that and

521
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: I'll say, hey, did you want to come to work

522
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 3: with us part time or full time. Sometimes it's part time,

523
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 3: sometimes it's a couple of days. And I want to

524
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: honor them because I know they've volunteered for a couple

525
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: of years, but I want to honor them by paying them.

526
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: And so as we've grown and needed more staff, then

527
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: I just hired them and many of them will leave

528
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: their job and work full time for us. And so

529
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: that's what happens.

530
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 2: How many of these women have volunteered or are paid

531
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: staff now?

532
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: Well, I still have a few that are volunteer, but

533
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: I have three that run the schools for me. So

534
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: Tessa runs my Oklahoma City school, and Crystal, she's been

535
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 3: trained from day one with me. She runs the brand

536
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 3: new one that we just opened this month. And then

537
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: Maria and Jessica they fill in at the Mabel Bassett

538
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: at the one that I teach at. Mostly.

539
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: All right, so I'm going to ask you favorite story

540
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: or stories. I know it's hard to pick one, so

541
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: at least a phrase it as one of your favorite,

542
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: but you could also feel free to tell a couple

543
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 2: if you want to do.

544
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 3: Okay, So, one of my favorite stories is and I

545
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: call this Shorty is who I'm going to be talking about.

546
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 3: She's very short, a little bitty. She was probably the

547
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: roughest one on the yard. They would call her a

548
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: shot collar and a little troublemaker.

549
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: And she the like beating people up.

550
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: Beating people up, picking up packages, doing.

551
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: A lot of what do you mean by picking up packages?

552
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: Contraband things, running a store, doing some little I'm telling

553
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: on you, shorty, all the stuff. No she's not, she's

554
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: not great story. So it's so good, it's so good.

555
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: She was the ruffian. All the officers were like, are

556
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: you sure you want her in your school? Like you

557
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: do not know what you're getting yourself into. And I

558
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 3: just loved her from the I could see gold in her,

559
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: you know, she couldn't see it in herself.

560
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: And so we've been in there.

561
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: It had to be the Lord. I guess I wanted

562
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: something so much better because she was a little rough house,

563
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: you know, and been locked up and in juvenile since

564
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 3: fifteen sixteen whatever, So for sixteen years she's been at

565
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: this prison still right now, and gone through the school.

566
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 3: I brought the barbering curriculum out there just to kind

567
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: of encourage her to do the barbering because she's not

568
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: a girly girl, and definitely wanted to do the boys stuff,

569
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: you know. And so there was a documentary crew that

570
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: came from France and they were talking with us and interviewing,

571
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: and she said, if you take the clippers out of

572
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: my hand, you put the pistol right back in my hand.

573
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: And that just shook me. You know, you took the

574
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 3: pistol out and gave me a set of clippers, but

575
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: if you take my clippers away, all I have is

576
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: that pistol. And I thought about that and I was

577
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: like wow. So she'd been adopted out and her mom

578
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: left her, and just a lot of prison moms and

579
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: never really having a family like that. She calls me mom,

580
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: calls me mom.

581
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: And what do you think about that?

582
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: I love it because that is the highest form of

583
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: respect and loyalty is for them to call me mom.

584
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: And so she says, when she'll talk to me, I'm

585
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: writing a class, just say my mom said, right, and

586
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: I love it. I'll show you a picture of shorty

587
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: hear person. And she said, don't ever leave me. I said,

588
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to tell you something right now.

589
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,239
Speaker 3: I would put paper on you right now, and that

590
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 3: means I would adopt her right now, and thirty six

591
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: years old, and so that that shook her, and so.

592
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: We have.

593
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: I would adopt her. I would adopt her.

594
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: You can't adopt her while she's in prison, can you.

595
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, but man, that makes me see, that

596
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: makes me think about it. I'm going to check into it.

597
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: You give me something to think about. But I told her,

598
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: I said I would put paper on you. And so

599
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: that did something for our friendship relationship, you know. And

600
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: so she has abandoned all plans she gets out this

601
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: year in November, abandon all other plans, and she's coming

602
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: to Oklahoma City now. She wants to work for our

603
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 3: program and she wants to be able to go back

604
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: in and tell her story. She's quite an instructor. And

605
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: I've had to kick her out of my class before.

606
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: I've had to tell her you can't get it together,

607
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: you need to go then, And that hurt me to

608
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: even say that. But the point was, you know, I

609
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: want better for you, I want different for you. And yeah,

610
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: we're we're inseparable as my little homie. And so now

611
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: we have the other school which is two hours away,

612
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: and so we put in a transfer for her to

613
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: go there. Institutional need to be an instructor at the

614
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 3: New School, and so it's time, it's ready, and I'm

615
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: proud of her, and so that's one of my favorite stories.

616
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: Do you feel like her heart is softened too?

617
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: My gosh, yeah, yeah, she says, I'll use her Prisonees language.

618
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: She'll say, I'm loyal to the soil, which I love.

619
00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: To you. You're the soil.

620
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: That means to the death, too. Loyal to the soil

621
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: all the way, never never change.

622
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, even you like saying things like put paper on.

623
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: It, like, yeah, I speak a couple of languages, and

624
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 3: I speak Prisonees and and so that's one of the languages. Yeah.

625
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: So I think having been there and lived it and

626
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: walked it out, it surprises them because I don't typically

627
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: don't look like I'm somebody that's been to prison. I

628
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 3: don't behave that way. I don't speak that way if

629
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: I'm at the capital speaking or you know anything else,

630
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: I don't have some I don't know. I mean sometimes

631
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: people have a stigma about that. But you know, I

632
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: think they're surprised to know that I've been incarcerated before.

633
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: And so I think that they call it street crid,

634
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, it gives me some credibility with them, some

635
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: trust with them that can often be hard one through

636
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: other people.

637
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: You know, we'll be right back. What does the future

638
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: look like for the Rise program?

639
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: We're just gonna I'm wearing a five point Nascar harness now,

640
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: I don't wear a seat Bill. I'm just like, let's go.

641
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: Lord.

642
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: I'm open to whatever he wants to do. There's an

643
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: apartment building across the street from our school in Oklahoma City,

644
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 3: and it's got like a small and like about sixteen apartments,

645
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: and I really want to do phase two housing and

646
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: for the guys also, and so they can have their

647
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: children there. But that's on the radar right now. You know,

648
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep talking about it. I'm gonna keep growing

649
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: as needed. I'm gonna keep hiring them as needed. I'm

650
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: sure sometime in the in a while, I may have

651
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 3: to think about retiring some time. But I just keep

652
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 3: training them up so they can take over, you know,

653
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: so they can do it. We're looking at there's a

654
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: friend of mine that just bought a mall in Oklahoma City.

655
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: You could say who it is. He's been on the podcast.

656
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 3: Chris Let's Go Chris Brister. He bought. He bought a

657
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: mall and it's a It was a kind of dilapidated.

658
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: It was the place to be back in the day.

659
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: And it's in the southwest side of Oklahoma City. It's

660
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 3: primarily Hispanic community, which we love, and we're we're working

661
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: right now to try to get a law or a

662
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: bill that would would ask if there could also be

663
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: Spanish language exams for cosmetology testing. There's not or state testing.

664
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: It's English only. So we'd love to see that because

665
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 3: I think a lot more people would benefit from that

666
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 3: if there's a language barrier. But they used to have

667
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: a cosmetology school inside that mall and it was so

668
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: it's already kind of waiting for us. And so we've

669
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: already put in our LOI, which is our letter of

670
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: intent to say we're in this thing, you know, let's

671
00:34:59,600 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 3: do it.

672
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: And his Crosslands Mall it's meant to be like a

673
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: community hub if I remember things right. So there's schools

674
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: in there, and there may be church stuff or maybe

675
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: they're thinking about a health clinic. It's all kinds of things.

676
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: So it'd be interesting to have a you know, social purpose. Yes,

677
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: you know, things like you guys in there too, and.

678
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: Write, well, he's superintendent of a really great, you know,

679
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 3: epic charter school, which is cool because part of their

680
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: curriculum could be you know, cosmetology for their vocational training.

681
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, it's a win win because employers

682
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: will end up getting great employees and then employees will

683
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 3: end up getting you know, great jobs, and so keeps

684
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 3: everybody legal and legit and hard, you know, hard at work.

685
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: So have you thought about expanding to other states?

686
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: I have. I've been approached by Kentucky for the women's

687
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 3: prison there, and I've been approached from Texas, Ohio, and then,

688
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: like I said, I'm doing Oh, South Carolina is another one.

689
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: So are you telling these guys know so far?

690
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: I think that they're the ones putting the brakes on.

691
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, let's go. Time's a ticken, we got stuff

692
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 3: to do. So it's so funny that, you know, later

693
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: in life, God said, now's the time, you know. But

694
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: what I knew then, what I was going through then,

695
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: my level of obedience wouldn't sustain where I'm at right now.

696
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: I had to learn. I had to grow. I had

697
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: to get the education, the personal knowledge to be able

698
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 3: to carry me right now and where I'm at right now,

699
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: my level of surrender, obedience and knowledge won't carry me

700
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 3: for what he has coming up. So it's the it's

701
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 3: the trust, the process as we grow.

702
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: Would you take back going to prison given how your

703
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: life has played out?

704
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: People have asked me that, and I man. At one

705
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: time I was like, absolutely, you know, I lost my

706
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: daughters to this, But now I would say, I hate

707
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 3: the reason I had to go that over and above.

708
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 3: That'll never change that reason that I had to go.

709
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 3: I wish I could undo that. I wish I and

710
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 3: obviously I can't. Would I do it all over again?

711
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: Or do I regret going? No? Because I found me,

712
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 3: I found my purpose. I found it was hard, and

713
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,919
Speaker 3: that four years, four months, four weeks and one day

714
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: seemed like an eternity, an eternity. But here we are today,

715
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 3: and I think about the scriptures as less a kernel

716
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: of wheat dye than comes the harvest. And so I

717
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: had to die to myself. Things had to change. My life,

718
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: my old life, my old me, my old addictions had

719
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 3: to die. And then I get to see the fruit.

720
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 3: I get to see the harvest, and not only for

721
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: the women and the men that I work with daily

722
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: that harvest, but for their children to see, for their

723
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: children to be restored to them, that's remarkable.

724
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: And some people never get to see the harvests, and

725
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: yet they've done, you know, good work. So it's an

726
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: incredible blessing that you get to see it in your life.

727
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm drinking from Wales. I didn't dig.

728
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: Somebody came behind the same. Somebody came before me, wrote

729
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: the cosmetology rules, wrote the doc rules or whatever. Somebody

730
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 3: did that before me.

731
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: You mentioned losing your daughters. Do you guys not have

732
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: a relationship.

733
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 3: We do. We do, but at the time, you know,

734
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: I didn't have custody of them, and my oldest daughter

735
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: was angry, and when she was thirteen.

736
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: You can't blame her where.

737
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: I couldn't blame her, and I said, fail your feels,

738
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 3: you know, do what you do if you don't want

739
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: to talk to me. I understand. It wasn't intentional. It

740
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: wasn't I wasn't living some lifestyle that caused me to

741
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: want to be away from my children. It was it

742
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: was a horrific accident that changed my life and their

743
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: lives immediately, you know. And then my youngest one, My goodness.

744
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 3: I mean, she had night terror and it was just

745
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 3: a separation. She was always with me always. She never

746
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 3: even you know, went to a daycare or anything like that.

747
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 3: So that was horrific for all of us, you know.

748
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 3: And then her dad is the one that filed for divorce.

749
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: And so now we go on vacations together. I've got

750
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: a granddaughter. My youngest daughter is a pretty popular tattoo

751
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 3: artist in Oklahoma City. And my oldest daughter worked for

752
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 3: our nonprofit for some time, you know, and just recently moved.

753
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: And so, you know, we have great relationships. But that's

754
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 3: scary to think that you wouldn't. And there's some of

755
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: our ladies at the transitional house. When they get out,

756
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: they just are broken because their children are angry with them.

757
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: And so I get to tell them, I know what

758
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: that feels like. And so here's what we need to do.

759
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: We're in this together. We're just going to keep going.

760
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: We're going to keep posting stuff on Facebook. You get

761
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: your driver's license, you get this job, you keep going,

762
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 3: you keep going, you keep staying clean and sober. And

763
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: I said, children want to have their moms in their lives.

764
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: They'll be back, may not be right this second, but

765
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: we have to keep going. And so on those days

766
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: when they come back around, that's a great reward. That's

767
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 3: really great. So even in my own life, I feel that.

768
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 3: So it's kind of having walked it out before to

769
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: be able to testify to say I understand sister, but

770
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 3: just wait. And you know on our Facebook page, I

771
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: brag on them all the time and I look for opportunities.

772
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: So anybody can find dirt, but you got to dig

773
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 3: to find gold sometimes. And it's that they get to

774
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: navigate this hard existence called re entry with a group

775
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: of people that walk through it before them, not on

776
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: their own. And when you're on your own and you're

777
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 3: trying to find a job and you don't have the support,

778
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 3: it's easy to fall off or fall backward into your addiction,

779
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 3: or go back to prison. And so we won't let

780
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: that happen. We will not let that happen. We're Yeah,

781
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: we go to the thunder Games together, we cooked together,

782
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 3: we go rock climbing. We like a it's a family,

783
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: so we kind of fill in the gaps for the

784
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: families we might not have anymore. You know, I had

785
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: family members that wrote me off, and God said, look,

786
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: at all the daughters I've given you, Look at all

787
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: the sisters I've given you. You can't say you're alone.

788
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: So it sounds like you got an interesting way if

789
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 2: you're not just like a boring white person in Oklahoma.

790
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 3: I hope not. I hope not. I ride Harley, Yeah,

791
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 3: heck yeah, I do. And I mean I love to travel.

792
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: I just hiked up in September. I just went hiked

793
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: up Machipichu and Vinie Kunka and Humanity Lake did all

794
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: those in Peru, and I took one of my girls

795
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: from the transitional house with me. She got her passport,

796
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 3: and I was like, let's go. So this year we're

797
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: going to Latvia and we're going to speak at the

798
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: I speak a little bit of Russian, and so the

799
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 3: refugees come in.

800
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: From the Russian grew up in Memphis. You're the city,

801
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 2: you're in prison, Like where does Russian?

802
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: It was. It was something that just interested me from

803
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: way back before the coup took place, way back in

804
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: the day. And I just want to.

805
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: Be did you run in prison or another time?

806
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: No, I learned it before I went to prison. Yeah,

807
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 3: so in that yeah, my pastor, she says, hey, we

808
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 3: have all these refugee women, Jewish women that are from

809
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: Russia that are coming over escaping Russia and Ukraine and

810
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 3: going to Latvia and Estonia, and so doing a women's conference.

811
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: You want to go, I'm like, yes, So I'm taking

812
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 3: two of my girls that graduated my program and have

813
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: their passports and we're going and we're going to Kenya.

814
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: Every year I go to Kenya and we go to

815
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: the Masai tribe and uh, we just love on people.

816
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 3: It's just I'm so grateful to be able to have

817
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: the opportunities to travel.

818
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: And I'm guessing these girls haven't traveled much until you

819
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: take it.

820
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: Yep. So that's really that's kind of cool to see

821
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: there's and oh's, you know, and they're tears because yeah,

822
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 3: they just follow what the Lord, what the Lord has

823
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: them do.

824
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: So I think you have some interesting thoughts on the

825
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: word grace. Can you talk about that?

826
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 3: Man? I heard something the other day and I think

827
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 3: that this pertains I'm so glad I get to say

828
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: it right now. I was listening to a little popular

829
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 3: female preacher and she said, we have a calender heart

830
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: where every day, you know, God pours his grace in

831
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 3: us and sometimes it just runs out and he has

832
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: to keep renewing it every day for us. And I

833
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 3: think that, I think it's undeserved grace that I get

834
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: every day, and I don't deserve it at all, but

835
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for it, and I recognize it, and

836
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: I want to extend that same grace to everybody else

837
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 3: I come in contact with. You know, I believe we

838
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: all have made mistakes, and we all need a second chance,

839
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: sometimes third, fourth, hundred chances if you will.

840
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: Or have you heard people say they just need a

841
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: first chance to give how many good how many people

842
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: grew up they never really had a shot so good.

843
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 3: I love that.

844
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to use that.

845
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: I I love it. I'm going to borrow that. Then

846
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: it's that it's the taking the pistol out of the

847
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 3: hand kind of thing. But it's grace. I can't explain it.

848
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: But grace wins every time. Love wins every time, Love

849
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: never fails, never never.

850
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: I almost said that earlier when you were talking about

851
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: you know, Christ can transform people and this isn't a

852
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: Christian show, so not you know a very listener, you know,

853
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: as a faith but yeah, even take Christ out of

854
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: her sex just love you being in prison, loving upon

855
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 2: you know, these women, and you know, a government program

856
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 2: or a government check can never love people right, and

857
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: it's it's a love that can really transform everything.

858
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. It's you know, I find this meeting

859
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: people where they're at, meeting them exactly where they're at.

860
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: People think oftentimes they have to clean up before they can,

861
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: you know, come to the faith or be good enough.

862
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: I thought that I was on a performance treadmill, you know,

863
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: and thought, I, I've got to behave, I've got to act.

864
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: If I act right, then I'll be loved. If I,

865
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 3: you know, do these things and I'll be accepted. And

866
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 3: it's perpetual ridiculousness. It's a performance treadmill. I mean, you

867
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: never get anywhere. So if you just meet people where

868
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: they're at, whether they're you know, drinking, cussing, whatever, not

869
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 3: in faith, doing whatever they're doing, you just treat them

870
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: as a human being, you know, and get to know

871
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 3: them that way, then that's okay. I have shortcomings and

872
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 3: I need some grace too.

873
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: So you mentioned asking people if they are teachable, how

874
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: teachable do you find them? Because it's a common conception

875
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: and I think it's largely true. Most adults are not

876
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 2: that teachable, right, It's like we've got our habits for

877
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: this way, we're kind of locked in. Obviously, people can change.

878
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: There's crazy redemption and stories. We should always be open

879
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: to the possibility of it. But how teachable are you

880
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: actually finding your students?

881
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: I kind of mandate that, I think I just asked him.

882
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 3: I said, I don't care if you've been braiding hair

883
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 3: since the womb. I'm not impressed by that at all.

884
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: I need you to throw out that out the window

885
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: and surrender. So it's about surrendering right what you think

886
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 3: you know, because we're going to teach you a new way.

887
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 3: We're going to teach you the state board ways. It

888
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 3: can pass, you know, the exam. I tell them, I said,

889
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: you passed the exam. That's great. I don't care if

890
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 3: you cut hair with a blowtorch, a machette, you know, whatever, chainsaw,

891
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 3: let's go. I want to see. But for right now,

892
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 3: this is what we're doing, and it helps you to

893
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 3: get your license, and so it's that, and then it's

894
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 3: also taking constructive correction. I want to say criticism, because

895
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: I don't believe in that, you know, But correction Hey,

896
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 3: I need you to, you know, clean it up a

897
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: little bit, or do this over here and some if

898
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: you're going to be you know, if a person's going

899
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: to be defiant about it or offended all the time,

900
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 3: then there's no place for that in here. You know,

901
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 3: good your chips off your shoulder and then come back

902
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: and see me. And so that might sound harsh, but

903
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 3: it's really that it's like surrendered to what God has

904
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: for you and what he's about to do because it's

905
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: going to change your life. And so you know, I'm

906
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 3: not talking about like some brainwashed session or something. It's

907
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: literally just saying, you know, I have to remain teachable

908
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: because I don't know it all. I have to remain teachable.

909
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 3: Do the things that you're afraid of, do it anyway,

910
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: you know. And that feels like growth to me when

911
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: you're doing something a little nervous about or you know,

912
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: scared of.

913
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 2: So what have they taught you and how have you

914
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: transformed over time?

915
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 3: Oh? My goodness, They've taught me to be accepting. They've

916
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 3: taught me to be more loving. They've taught me to

917
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 3: meet people where they're at. I have to not everybody's

918
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 3: the same, you know, collectively, yes, we're a class. But individually,

919
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: you know, you're Dorothy or your Maria or your Tessa

920
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,959
Speaker 3: or and I have to meet them where they're at.

921
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 3: And so they've pulled me out of my shell. I'm

922
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 3: pretty driven. So I like, I love to work. As

923
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: odd as that sounds. Who has who goes to prison

924
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: and works two jobs? Me? But I love to work,

925
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 3: and so I'm serious about what I do. I'm serious

926
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,919
Speaker 3: about the mission God has me in. But yeah, they've

927
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: taught me to be more accepting and more filled with

928
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 3: grace really, you know, and we're having a bad day.

929
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: You get one day to have a bad day, go

930
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 3: wipe it off, and let's get back at this the

931
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 3: next day, you know, and then they're grieving, then we

932
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 3: grieve with them, you know.

933
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, has there been any really dramatic moments during

934
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: the program that could be sad, hard or really beautiful

935
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: like some embrace uh that just shook everyone in the

936
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: moment you could feel Fred. It's all both types.

937
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 3: We have had. We've we missed one of our girls

938
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 3: the other day whose father is he's in ICU and

939
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: he he's coated a few times, and she was gutted.

940
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 3: She was literally just laying in the in the floor

941
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 3: and uh man, you have to be so gentle in that.

942
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 3: And and I've learned to say, sister, I don't have words,

943
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: but I just held her while she just, you know,

944
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: just broke. I have another one that is one of

945
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 3: my little, tiny, young, little tiny chicks, and she's had

946
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 3: a hard life and she lost both of her children

947
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: to i'll just say, to an adoption, and she was

948
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 3: gutted over it. How do you I know what that

949
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: feels like to be away from your kids.

950
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: But her friend rights were terminated and someone adopted them.

951
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and he's to get their names tattooed all

952
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: over her, you know, and and to look at that

953
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 3: every day and know and I'm just like, gosh, you

954
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: even say to that. Then I've had one of my students

955
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 3: who was almost finished and she relapsed and relapsed in

956
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: a big way, and so I put her out of

957
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 3: the class. That got'll remove you from the class right

958
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 3: away if they have a misconduct. And she came back

959
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 3: and apologized and she just said, that's not me. This

960
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: is what I was doing and I was wrong, and please,

961
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 3: I only have a few more hours and it would

962
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: mean everything to me, and so her victory story is

963
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: she passed, she finished, she graduated and had never graduated

964
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 3: anything in her life. I let her come back and

965
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 3: then she did her barbering and passed that. And now

966
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: she's one of my master instructor students and is just

967
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: like carrying this great torch for what we do and

968
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: for her testimony and what grace looks like.

969
00:50:48,960 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 2: You know, we'll be right back. So I think you

970
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 2: might be teaching some lifers too, Is that or correct?

971
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 3: I do? I have some that are that won't get

972
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 3: out life without the possibility of parole.

973
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: So we've told one story similar like that with some

974
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: Michigan prisons or that actually have a theology program. Yes,

975
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 2: And people will say like, why are you teaching these lifers?

976
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: They're not getting out of prison, so right, what are

977
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: you doing?

978
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 3: Well exactly, Well, it's my education, so I can give

979
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: it to whoever I want to. It's free, it's not

980
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: costing the state, is what I usually will say. You know,

981
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: it's it's my gift here and here that can just

982
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: transfer it to whoever I want. And the life is valuable.

983
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 3: And I found that out for myself. I found out

984
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 3: that my life was valuable to the Lord. So I

985
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: look at them and I see them as God's daughters

986
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 3: and that their life has value. I never look any

987
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 3: of my students up, so the only the only ones

988
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 3: we can't allow in our class, or sex offenders, so

989
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: we don't have sex offenders in our class.

990
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: You never look their senses up what the crime is.

991
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to because then I'd sit in judgment,

992
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 3: wouldn't I? And so I don't, And so that way,

993
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 3: when I meet them, I'm like, hey, Betty, how you doing?

994
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: And I meet Betty right there, and I don't know

995
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 3: about her past. She doesn't know about mine. But I

996
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: usually talk about it, and I don't need to because

997
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 3: then I can. They'll usually end up telling me after all.

998
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 3: But I don't. I don't. That's not how I choose

999
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 3: them or select them for the class or anything like that.

1000
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 3: I listen to the Holy Spirit, I really feel prompted

1001
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 3: one way or the other. I listen to doc or

1002
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: if they pass the UA and those kinds of things,

1003
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: and whatever their little essay that they write me says.

1004
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: But I don't, and I don't want to look them up.

1005
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 3: I don't want to know what they've done because then

1006
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: it will caused me to sit in judgment, whether I

1007
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 3: want to or not. It really does. It would for anybody.

1008
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: And so it's having that private information and you know

1009
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 3: that I just don't want. So there's a beauty shop

1010
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: there at the prison, there's braiding to be done on

1011
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 3: the unit. There's continuous education they can take. There's they

1012
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 3: can I can hire them as my master instructor inside.

1013
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 3: And then sometimes and suddenly there's some miraculous thing that

1014
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: just like last a year ago today, one of my students,

1015
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 3: she was the first one to get out on the

1016
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 3: domestic violence survivorship and she got out a year ago today.

1017
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 3: She had been locked up for thirty five thirty five

1018
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 3: years and she's a free woman today. A new law

1019
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 3: passed and so you never.

1020
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: Know, what do you mean my domestic violence survivorship?

1021
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: So she it was in Oklahoma, domestic violence was not

1022
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 3: a means for like self defense or anything like that.

1023
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 3: It was not You weren't able to use that in

1024
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 3: any of the trial. It was like, oh, well that's

1025
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 3: what you think it is, and so we're going to

1026
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: call it that, notmestic violence survivorship. So a lady on

1027
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 3: our board wrote the bill for domestic violence survivorship. And

1028
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 3: the lady I'm talking about are graduate. She was the

1029
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: first one in Oklahoma to be released on that. They

1030
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 3: heard her court hearing all over again and deemed that

1031
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 3: there was enough evidence to show that it was in

1032
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: self defense and she walked out after thirty five years

1033
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: in prison.

1034
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 2: How long are you go to that laga changed like

1035
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: last year? That's crazy. So she's saying before last year,

1036
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: so your husband and wife are fighting and he's you know,

1037
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 2: really getting after her and she ends up killing him

1038
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: or hurting him in some way, you better have a load.

1039
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 2: He would still be convicted.

1040
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 3: Yep. We have one lady right now, not in my class,

1041
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: but at the prison. And they had a paper trail

1042
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: like for years of him abusing her and in protective

1043
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 3: orders and all the just a tremendous paper trail proving

1044
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: and they said no. So they they're still you know,

1045
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 3: they're still working it out and everything, and not to

1046
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 3: talk about all the details of the case. But uh,

1047
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: not everybody agrees with that new law that happened, you

1048
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 3: know that came into effect. Yikes, So it's new, it's

1049
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 3: new to Oklahoma. It wasn't a means of defense or

1050
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: you know, so in a in a hearing, but they're

1051
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 3: working on it. So what you were asking me about,

1052
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 3: why would I give it away? There's still purpose in

1053
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 3: our lives. As long as we have breath and our lungs,

1054
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 3: they're still purpose. So whatever they want to do with it.

1055
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: So obviously, yeah, for a lifer, obviously could change their

1056
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: life doing your school, but also to like the Michigan prison,

1057
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 2: one of the reasons they're doing it too is it

1058
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: changes the environment.

1059
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 3: It does, so you have these.

1060
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: Completely transformed people who are populating her prison. Like it's

1061
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: subtly right, the entire environment in the prison.

1062
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean if they're if they're not getting out,

1063
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: I mean, what are they doing just sitting on their

1064
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 3: bunk or they're fighting? Or how much school can you

1065
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 3: go to? How much you know, how much college? How

1066
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 3: many times can you go to college? Or a Bible study?

1067
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 3: Or you know, you're.

1068
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: Either making the environment better or you're making it worse. Right,

1069
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 2: Like I'm sure you've heard people say alying to like

1070
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 2: your marriage is either getting better or it's getting worse.

1071
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: It's right, it's not, it's not, and it's growing. It's

1072
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 3: a living, breathing thing, you know, and that's why growing

1073
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 3: now the whole yard knows about us, and it's pretty gratifying.

1074
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 3: You know that they know my standards are high. If

1075
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 3: they come in there and we have like a little

1076
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 3: list of rules. You can't sag your pants, you can't

1077
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: come in your cussing, well, I don't allow for it.

1078
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: I'll put them on the most service list, and so

1079
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 3: that seems firm. But it's I have to let them

1080
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 3: know that I'm serious about what we're doing. And they

1081
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: come in and they respect what we're doing.

1082
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: And you know, so I was going to ask you

1083
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: about the family, the victims family. We ended up moving

1084
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 2: on to another topic. But it seems like they never

1085
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 2: reached out to you, and maybe you've never reached out

1086
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: to them, was my sense of what you're saying. And

1087
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: would you reach out to them just to share what's

1088
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 2: happened with your story or more out of respect? You

1089
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: don't think that's right? And do you think they've heard

1090
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 2: about you or how do you process all that?

1091
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 3: I would imagine that they have. I would imagine that

1092
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: they've kind of, I don't want to say, kept up

1093
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 3: with me, or maybe have or aware of some of

1094
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 3: the things. That I'm doing. You know I would. I'd

1095
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: be open to it. It's scary to think about that,

1096
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 3: but out of respect, I don't want to overstep my bounds.

1097
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 3: If that's something that they sought ID in a heartbeat,

1098
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 3: I would be open to that, but I want to

1099
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 3: honor them in their terms and what that might look like.

1100
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 3: You know, we can I do. It's shameful, you know,

1101
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: in that regard, I just can't. What do you even.

1102
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: Say anything else? You want to cover, Chrissy, I want.

1103
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 3: To say one other thing, and I say this, wish

1104
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 3: every other little thing that I do to all your

1105
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 3: lovely people out there. If you have someone that's incarcerated,

1106
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: if you have written them off, or maybe have feelings

1107
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 3: about not talking with them, or you just can't forgive them,

1108
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: I just implore that they would reach out, fill out

1109
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: visitation papers forgive. Time is short. They need your love

1110
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 3: and support. And I would just encourage you if you

1111
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: ever felt doing something crazy in your life, you feel

1112
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 3: called to prison, ministry or starting a business, or doing

1113
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 3: something rather than what you're doing. We're not just We're

1114
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: not just born to work and pay taxes and die

1115
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 3: like you have a purpose. God has a purpose for you.

1116
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 3: Get off the couch and go do it. Do it afraid,

1117
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,919
Speaker 3: do it crazy, do it without a dollar, Tell four

1118
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: thousand people, and just trust that God's got you on

1119
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 3: the other end of it. That's what I would say.

1120
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: And for the people who haven't reached out, so they're

1121
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: family members or friends, yet it reminds me of the lion,

1122
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: like that kind of hatred is like drinking poison and

1123
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: expecting the other person to die.

1124
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: That's exactly what That's exactly right. And you know they

1125
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 3: just need they need their family. That's it. I see

1126
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: so many women cry at the loss of relationship. You know,

1127
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 3: maybe it's a stupid mistake. We all have made mistakes.

1128
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: Maybe sometimes we didn't get caught. If you're speeding down

1129
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: the highway, guess what, you're breaking the law. Maybe you know,

1130
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 3: maybe it's something more. Maybe you cheat on your taxes,

1131
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 3: you're breaking the law. You know, maybe they just got caught.

1132
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 3: And I mean, in all truthfulness, you know, we're all

1133
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 3: human and we all need each other. You know, God

1134
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 3: didn't even send out the disciples one at a time.

1135
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 3: There were two by two. You know, woe do you

1136
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 3: that falls into ditch? You don't have anybody to pick

1137
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 3: you up. That's a sad, scary place to be. So

1138
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 3: you know, I just wouldn't could. That would be one

1139
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 3: of the biggest things, you know, reach out to your

1140
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 3: people if they're locked up, you know, man, even if

1141
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 3: it's even if it's something short and sweet, you know,

1142
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 3: maybe I just feel like that they need. We all need,

1143
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 3: whether we're incarcerated or not. We all need family support

1144
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 3: and encouragement. But especially there's just something about it, like

1145
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 3: man to be a fly on the wall when they

1146
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 3: get a letter or a card or something from a

1147
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 3: long lost family member or a kid. Oh, it's life changing.

1148
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: I've seen it happen, you know.

1149
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: So you are such a beautiful soul, and I think

1150
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: our listeners will have seen that in the podcast. So

1151
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody's super judging you, but in case

1152
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: they are, it reminds me of the line there, but

1153
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: the grace of God go eyes. And like, how close

1154
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: have all of us, right been? I mean, how many

1155
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: times I've almost hit a car right and like the

1156
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: person thankfully moved like right, I don't even know dozens

1157
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: of times, like we've all been, And that's not excusing

1158
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: what happened or any of that. But like we have

1159
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: all been so lucky so many times where we could

1160
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: have been in the exact same boat or a mistake

1161
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: that I did more actively make and it didn't lead

1162
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: to the bad outcome that it could have. And we

1163
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: all should, you know, And I'm sure you've even had

1164
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 2: those experiences you know, post prisons too, were still oh

1165
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: yeah about the grace of God, go eye, and I'm

1166
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 2: so lucky that this didn't turn out.

1167
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: Well and just having a fell in label, I know

1168
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 3: for Oklahoma, you know, for the historically for the last

1169
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: twenty five years, Oklahoma's ranked number one and number two, uh,

1170
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: you know for the highest female incarceration rate. And you

1171
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 3: can check that out too, and that has been the

1172
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 3: actual truth. And so why is that, you know? And

1173
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 3: some of our laws and our rules are are way

1174
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: different than other states and very punitive sometimes, and so

1175
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 3: the sentencing ranges are very large, and it can take

1176
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 3: you know, one incident. One incident can can cost you everything.

1177
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 3: It costs me everything, your home, your marriage, your kids,

1178
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 3: your job, your security can be gone to the dirt

1179
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: in a matter of seconds, you know. So again I

1180
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 3: just would say, man, if God's tugging on somebody's heart

1181
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 3: about this, I just just do it. Just whether it's

1182
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 3: right or call or whatever, you know, go visit. That's

1183
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: what I would say. Level on some people, get off

1184
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 3: the couch and go do something.

1185
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 2: You know, you saying just do it reminds me sometimes

1186
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 2: I kind of think we're the Nike version of service,

1187
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: Like our version is do what you can.

1188
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 3: No, yeah, it's I mean, that's it. Why what are

1189
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: we waiting on? You know?

1190
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: Who's coming to save us?

1191
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 3: I know we may be we may be the only one.

1192
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 3: If you see a need you've been called maybe nobody

1193
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 3: else is called to it. Maybe that thing that wrecks

1194
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 3: your heart nobody else sees except for you, and it's

1195
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: loud and it's in your spirit or right in your

1196
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 3: face to do something, nobody else is coming it. Maybe

1197
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 3: you you know, so.

1198
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 2: You don't want that regret sitting on the rocking porch

1199
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 2: at eighty years old, Like what if I had done this?

1200
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 3: Man? I think about that. People say, what if you said, no,

1201
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know you right now? Said I wouldn't know

1202
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 3: anybody right now because I could have run from that

1203
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 3: fellon label and gone to hide or move someplace else

1204
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 3: instead of going back to my community, you know, and

1205
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful I said yes, I said yes to

1206
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 3: a crazy you know, quitting my job with all the

1207
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 3: benefits and everything else. I mean, that's crazy. I guess

1208
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 3: it was crazy for Noah to build a ARC too,

1209
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 3: until it started to rain.

1210
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: You know.

1211
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 2: So, if people want to contact you, if they're interested

1212
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 2: in donating, volunteering, starting this in their community, whether through

1213
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 2: you guys are on their own, would you be open

1214
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 2: to sharing your email address for people to reach out

1215
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: to you.

1216
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely so. It's Rise Program Inc. At gmail dot com,

1217
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 3: r S E Program I n C at gmail dot com.

1218
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Christy, Thanks you so much. I've really

1219
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: enjoyed getting to know you. Thanks for our friend Jennifer

1220
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: re introducing us.

1221
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 3: That's my sister.

1222
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Jennifer texted me yesterday. You'll love working

1223
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 2: with her. Before she and I met, I would be

1224
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: in the prison lobby ready to check in for a

1225
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: volunteer shift, and in wold come Christy wearing black leather pants,

1226
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 2: high heels and carrying all kinds of foam, mannequin heads

1227
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: and other strange supplies. It's totally not what you typically

1228
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: see going into prison so I wondered, who is this woman?

1229
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 2: It has been such a gift to work alongside her

1230
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 2: inside the prison and out. She's the real deal and

1231
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 2: I love her dearly well, I love her.

1232
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 3: I think she is wow. I mean, she is such

1233
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 3: an amazing woman and just so impressive. She's like, I'm

1234
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 3: going for my doctorate this time and next week I'm

1235
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,919
Speaker 3: you know, I'm signing up. I'm going overseas and I'm

1236
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 3: doing this and just to watch.

1237
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 2: I mean, Jennifer's great, but I was more interested in

1238
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 2: her interesting description of you. That's pretty.

1239
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 3: It's actually it's actual factual, as they say at the prison.

1240
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: So yes, I do, I uh, actual factual factual. I

1241
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 3: grew up on Soul Train, you know. I used to

1242
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 3: get in trouble for staying up till midnight watching it.

1243
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 3: And I always love the clothes and the music and

1244
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 3: all the stuff. And so I don't know, I just

1245
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 3: have a unique, unique flavor to me, I guess.

1246
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 2: And you kind of remind me of the woman and

1247
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 2: almost famous. Have not seen it for years, but I

1248
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: need to go, well.

1249
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 3: I need to revisit that. Yeah I love it, but no,

1250
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 3: that's actual, that's true, And yeah, I just I don't know.

1251
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 3: Just don't take no for an answer. I mean, the

1252
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: things that we do never happened before in Oklahoma, So

1253
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, you just do what you

1254
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 3: need to do.

1255
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 2: I guess the Rise program two hundred and eighty six

1256
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 2: graduates and students yep one only one has gone back

1257
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 2: to prison. The recidivism rates so far of zero point

1258
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 2: three percent, better than anything I've heard of out there.

1259
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 3: It's pretty amazing.

1260
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,959
Speaker 2: And two, I think it's a great example for us too.

1261
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 2: I mean, people know, we've told all kinds of scale

1262
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 2: of programs, some things that help out one person or

1263
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 2: ten or thousands or one hundred thousands, but I think

1264
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 2: this is an interesting scale too, Like you can start something.

1265
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be the biggest nonprofit in the world,

1266
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 2: but to change two hundred and eighty six lives is extraordinary.

1267
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: So what do you show me right now? This is okay,

1268
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 2: that's a do you want to in case we feature

1269
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: it or you'll probably send me the picture after, but yeah,

1270
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 2: that'd be awesome to send it. Looks like they're having

1271
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:37,439
Speaker 2: fun in there.

1272
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 3: We have a great time. We have a great time.

1273
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 2: Well, you're amazing, Christie it's but blessing to get to

1274
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 2: know you. I'm glad you can have a triumphant return

1275
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: to Memphis.

1276
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 3: Yes, it was great. It was great being back. And

1277
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 3: I'm so thank you guys. You treated me so well

1278
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 3: and done some many wonderful things and stirred up so

1279
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Speaker 3: many memories for me, and just the opportunity the honor

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Speaker 3: to be here. I'm really I feel pretty ledged and

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Speaker 3: very humbled.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, you guys heard her, go do what

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01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: you can. Let's get off.

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Speaker 3: The couch, get out the couch.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, bye bye.

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Speaker 1: Bye, and thank you for joining us this week. If

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Speaker 1: Christy Luther has inspired you in general, or better yet,

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01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: to take action by transforming your greatest pain into purpose,

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01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: starting something like the Rise program with your unique passion

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01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: and abilities, volunteering somewhere with them, donating to Rise, or

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01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: something else entirely, let me know I want to hear

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01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at

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01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: normal folks dot us and I will respond. If you

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01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: enjoyed the episode, please share it with friends and on

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01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: social subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, join

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01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: the army at normal folks dot us. Any and all

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01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: of these things that will help us grow an army

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Speaker 1: of normal folks.

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Speaker 2: I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can do.