Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's
Speaker 1: guest needs no introduction. He's none other than my co
Speaker 1: host of Cutting the Distance. You get to listen to
Speaker 1: this guy every other week here on the show. In
Speaker 1: his spare time, he also likes to act as a
Speaker 1: figure model. And then he also trains cats. So if
Speaker 1: you have any cats that need trained, Dirt is amazing
Speaker 1: with with cats, the felines. He's your guy. Welcome to show, Dirt.
Speaker 2: Oh, hey, there feline, my feline friend olaf. He may
Speaker 2: even make an appearance if we're if we're not, if
Speaker 2: we're unlucky. He usually likes to crawl around on my
Speaker 2: keyboard and when I get out a podcast. So and uh,
Speaker 2: you know it's a fitness model. Let's get this straight.
Speaker 2: I'm a fitness model.
Speaker 1: Oh, fitness model, not a figure model.
Speaker 2: More favorites.
Speaker 1: What's the difference and fitness and figuring.
Speaker 2: Fitness is more muscle figures more like you got all
Speaker 2: the the the curves in the right places.
Speaker 1: I guess, Oh, oh so that's not you.
Speaker 2: No, I've got it's all Hey, I'm big boned.
Speaker 1: Right, So on today's episode, though I want it. It's
Speaker 1: that time of year, right, it's and we try to
Speaker 1: make this podcast somewhat relevant to the timing of the year.
Speaker 1: Today is the sixth of February, so I feel like, uh,
Speaker 1: today's Arizona, Elk and prong Horn. By time this comes out, though,
Speaker 1: you're already gonna miss it, So hopefully I'm not the
Speaker 1: bearer of bad news that if you didn't get in
Speaker 1: for Arizona, you missed it two days ago, as this
Speaker 1: will be released on days, but it's a time right.
Speaker 1: We're all uh me and you. Every year. As much
Speaker 1: as we love elk cunting, as much as it's part
Speaker 1: of what we do, you're always trying to get some
Speaker 1: elk hunts, some elk tags, you know, and even outside
Speaker 1: of elk tags, meal, dear, white Tail, spring Bear, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. You're trying to kind of plan the season,
Speaker 1: and whether you're a week in warrior, whether you're a
Speaker 1: guy that uses one or two weeks of vacation, whether
Speaker 1: you a guy that uses three or four. I think
Speaker 1: management of that time and making sure you're in the
Speaker 1: best place or what's available. It takes a little bit
Speaker 1: of work and management and effort and studying and understanding
Speaker 1: of state systems and and sort of on today's podcast,
Speaker 1: we're going to kind of go through that, like how
Speaker 1: do application processes work. You know, maybe some reminders on dates,
Speaker 1: whether they're approved or tentative dates that you need to
Speaker 1: pay attention to as a year goes by, And then
Speaker 1: really want to kind of jump in more to our
Speaker 1: strategy on our personal strategy and how we look at
Speaker 1: each individual Western state and what we want to get
Speaker 1: out of that state, and kind of how we set
Speaker 1: ourselves up so that we have hopefully an ELK tag
Speaker 1: and you know in our pocket if not, you know,
Speaker 1: if we're lucky more than one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it can be kind of a dawning
Speaker 2: task too, especially each state is so much different on
Speaker 2: how they conduct they're licensing their tag applications. There. It's
Speaker 2: a lot to learn, definitely, is it is.
Speaker 1: And and even over the last ten years, the evolution
Speaker 1: has been fairly quick, you know, Oregon changing their system. Idaho.
Speaker 1: I used to be able five, I might be off
Speaker 1: a little bit, five, six, seven years ago, I could
Speaker 1: drive to the gas station and buy my tag at
Speaker 1: the end of archery season if I needed to go
Speaker 1: on a hunt. You know, those days are long gone.
Speaker 1: So this this system has changed, evolved. Some of the
Speaker 1: things that you used to be able to just count
Speaker 1: on are no longer there. You know, systems or you
Speaker 1: know seasoned state systems going. What used to be over
Speaker 1: the counter have turned to limited, and limited have turned
Speaker 1: like premiums. And and this target keeps moving. It's almost
Speaker 1: a full time job keeping up on it and where
Speaker 1: your points are. And then you throw in point creep
Speaker 1: into the thing, you know, where you thought you were
Speaker 1: going to go in this many years, even based on projections,
Speaker 1: and then it moves. You know, Arizona is a crazy
Speaker 1: state where it seems like, well there's this many people
Speaker 1: at this many points, I'll eventually go. And it's just
Speaker 1: people are coming out of the woodwork and changing the
Speaker 1: way they apply and really really makes it for you
Speaker 1: have to be involved in order to plan your season
Speaker 1: now I'll say it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like in Arizona, for instance, there's probably a
Speaker 2: lot of people out there like me who I haven't
Speaker 2: been applying in the draws at all. I just buy
Speaker 2: the bonus point every year and just I'm stockpiling points
Speaker 2: to where someday when I get enough points and my
Speaker 2: schedule looks like you know, it's gonna gonna work because
Speaker 2: I'm going to dedicate a whole the whole season, which
Speaker 2: the whole season is not like Idaho where you get
Speaker 2: a month unt. It's it's a couple of week weeks,
Speaker 2: and I want to be able to dedicate more than that.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get there a week early, you know.
Speaker 2: Scout just you know, have the have the hunt of
Speaker 2: a lifetime. So I think there's probably a lot of
Speaker 2: people doing that same thing where they're they're banking points
Speaker 2: until one day they get like pretty close and they're like,
Speaker 2: all right, I'm gonna apply this year, and then it
Speaker 2: screws up all the numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there I mean, we'll get into it
Speaker 1: more like the other The crazy thing about Arizona and
Speaker 1: New Mexico is like sometimes they wait for a great
Speaker 1: moisture year, so you got like the point guard where
Speaker 1: people apply, they put point guard, and then they got
Speaker 1: like a dry year because you're applying before you know
Speaker 1: exactly what you're gonna get for horn growth, right, and
Speaker 1: then people are bouncing out and so it's just it's
Speaker 1: a very complex system. But we'll try to do our best.
Speaker 1: You know, it's tough with me living in washing Dirk
Speaker 1: live in Idaho. We've tried to hunt as much as
Speaker 1: we can around the West, but a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of times some of these states you taught Arizona
Speaker 1: are gonna be once in a lifetime, So we just
Speaker 1: kind of sit on the outside look in, try to
Speaker 1: understand their system, try to understand what's going on, and
Speaker 1: we'll do our best to break that down for all
Speaker 1: of you. So, just like every episode of cutting this
Speaker 1: and we're gonna start with some Q and a's. Usually
Speaker 1: we grab them from you our listeners. You know, you
Speaker 1: can either send them to us at CTD at Phelps
Speaker 1: Game Calls dot com, or you can hit us up
Speaker 1: on social media Instagram, Facebook and send us your questions area.
Speaker 1: We'll do our best to get them in here for
Speaker 1: for our guests or our so But today I went
Speaker 1: a little different method, knowing we were going to do
Speaker 1: more getting a tag in your pocket centric type of
Speaker 1: a podcast. I went to Chat GPT. I wanted to
Speaker 1: check this thing out, and I asked for three questions
Speaker 1: on how to acquire Western ELK tag. So we're going
Speaker 1: to see if chat.
Speaker 2: You're a millennial, aren't you? You? I bet you could
Speaker 2: what's your I bet what's your your birth? I bet
Speaker 2: you fall in the millennial category because it's such a
Speaker 2: millennial thing to do.
Speaker 1: I feel. I think I I'm like one year on
Speaker 1: the wrong side, but I identify and in today's day
Speaker 1: and age, I can identify is the other.
Speaker 2: One or the why or whatever x X gene.
Speaker 1: So I'm the greatest generation. I'm crossing over into that
Speaker 1: category because you can't tell me who I need to be.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: So the first question that chat GPT generated, how does
Speaker 1: tag application process work? And? Uh, I know you you
Speaker 1: might just defer right back to me. This might be
Speaker 1: a question for myself because each state's a little bit different. Right.
Speaker 1: Some you can get some ELK tags over the counter,
Speaker 1: so that application is literally show up at a gas station,
Speaker 1: apply early on you get your tag. So well, when
Speaker 1: we say over the counter, that's a tag that literally
Speaker 1: can be paid for in person. You go out the
Speaker 1: door in you're hunting.
Speaker 2: How many places can you tell you that these days?
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into that body. But this, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll just jump into it now. Let's jump into it now.
Speaker 1: So when I think for me personally, my home state
Speaker 1: does well we'll get into that. Like Colorado is still
Speaker 1: like the crown jewel of over the counter elk hunting.
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of archery over the counter. They
Speaker 1: do still what I say, reserve, preserve whatever word you
Speaker 1: want to eat. They do reserve some of their premium
Speaker 1: units for the draw, so they do have some draws.
Speaker 1: And then what Colorado does is they're better muzzleoder hunts,
Speaker 1: they're better rifle hunts. Early season rifle hunts kind of
Speaker 1: end up taking your preference points. But there is a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunity within Colorado, even if you do have
Speaker 1: to apply some zero point units, so it may be controlled,
Speaker 1: but you can apply. But Colorado is kind of the
Speaker 1: king of over the counter. Now that Idaho want the
Speaker 1: direction they did, there are some opportunities within Washington and Oregon.
Speaker 1: In Washington, specifically, all of our Roosevelt hunting, I say,
Speaker 1: all the majority of our Roosevelt hunting, with the exceptions
Speaker 1: of a few premium units up around Mount Baker, up
Speaker 1: around White River, and then some of the Mount Saint
Speaker 1: Helens units. There's a few of them that are off limits,
Speaker 1: but the majority of the western side of the state
Speaker 1: you can hunt roosevelts over the counter every year. The
Speaker 1: same with Oregon. They have some reserved trophy units or
Speaker 1: better units on the west side, you know, like the
Speaker 1: Powers Unit. Some of these units that are more famed
Speaker 1: roosevelts are are in the draw. But you can still
Speaker 1: hunt a lot of the Oregon coast for roosevelts over
Speaker 1: the counter. Within Washington though, we do have some Eastern
Speaker 1: Washington very limited. We have some eastern Washington where you're
Speaker 1: hunting true Rocky Mountain elk. There are opportunities. Now with
Speaker 1: that said, I would say that they're they're low, low percentage,
Speaker 1: low opportunities. The guys that know how to hunt, know
Speaker 1: the areas typically get it done. And then without that,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to short credit Idahoa, Wayoming, Montana, Utah,
Speaker 1: New Mexico, some of these states, and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to get into it because I honestly personally don't look
Speaker 1: into those. They have some b tag opportunities right where
Speaker 1: there's some Antler list stuff that maybe over the counter
Speaker 1: or some Antler List stuff that you can drive ever year,
Speaker 1: which I would say still not over the counter, but
Speaker 1: there are opportunities to hunt every year in some of
Speaker 1: these other states. You know, Utah has some select antler lists.
Speaker 1: I think Spike only. You know, some of these states
Speaker 1: offer some some some units that are easier to get,
Speaker 1: but honestly, Colorado, Washington, Oregon or really you're over the
Speaker 1: counter opportunities nowadays. You know, Idaho still considers themselves over
Speaker 1: the counter.
Speaker 2: But it's not.
Speaker 1: Anybody that's anybody that's followed the mess that's been I
Speaker 1: will say mess.
Speaker 2: It's a mess, it's a train.
Speaker 1: The system they've put in place for non residents has
Speaker 1: really became, maybe even more so of a lottery than
Speaker 1: just putting your dang name in a hat and seeing
Speaker 1: if you get drawn out. As much as I'm anti draw,
Speaker 1: and I love the idea of everybody going on in
Speaker 1: the even playing field. And Idaho, it's to the point
Speaker 1: where I don't know, I'm torn on it. I don't
Speaker 1: know the right answer. At some point, if it allowed
Speaker 1: me to hunt with my buddies, or at least have
Speaker 1: a chance hunt with my buddies, I would love the draw.
Speaker 1: But I also love the idea right now as it
Speaker 1: requires some planning, It requires some dedication of your time
Speaker 1: to that day, It requires some of these things to
Speaker 1: get your tag. So I'm torn on which way, But
Speaker 1: Idaho is no longer over the counter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've ever boughten, I ever tried to buy
Speaker 2: concert tickets and you get online when they first first
Speaker 2: go on sale, you get into this virtual waiting room
Speaker 2: and you're assigned kind of a random number, no matter
Speaker 2: who was there first. They just assigned people random numbers.
Speaker 2: So you could be number one, you could be number
Speaker 2: five and seventy two or twenty five thousand. Here a
Speaker 2: lot of those stories too in Idaho. And so if
Speaker 2: you and a friend want to go hunt there, you
Speaker 2: both have to log in separately. And let's say Jason
Speaker 2: gets a tag and I don't because I have a
Speaker 2: crappy number and he's got a really good number. It
Speaker 2: just makes it really hard for friends and families to
Speaker 2: go hunt together as non residents in Idaho. I feel
Speaker 2: like just the drawing the drawing model would be so
Speaker 2: much more simple. It would free up a lot of
Speaker 2: people's free time. It'd just be a lot more trouble
Speaker 2: free process and allow you know, friends and family to
Speaker 2: hunt together instead of this. It's just not a good system.
Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, it takes I think they're looking
Speaker 2: at the god yeah, and I think they're looking at
Speaker 2: it pretty hard to make some changes, but we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been very fortunate that, you know, we usually
Speaker 1: can get one body into a unit if it's a
Speaker 1: DC unit. But by the time as fast as these
Speaker 1: tags are going, like, you have literally minutes and you
Speaker 1: better have a low number, you know, and some of
Speaker 1: these tags are gone. And so it's unfortunately, I would
Speaker 1: like to see that that fixed. I know everybody's doing
Speaker 1: their best in these game agencies. I would have to
Speaker 1: think they're trying to fix the system. But hopefully in
Speaker 1: future years in Idaho they'll get that fixed. But within
Speaker 1: that so back to how does a tag application process work.
Speaker 1: Some states have lotteries, some states have preference points, some
Speaker 1: states have bonus points. So when you when we talk
Speaker 1: about a state has preference points, it's like Colorado, whoever
Speaker 1: has the highest amount of points is the only one
Speaker 1: that goes in a draw. So let's say there's five
Speaker 1: tags available and ten people have the highest amount of
Speaker 1: points that apply for that. So let's say the highest
Speaker 1: amount of points in that that preference point state is twenty.
Speaker 1: Ten guys apply with twenty, but there's only five tags available,
Speaker 1: You're going to go into a draw and you got
Speaker 1: a fifty percent chance of drawing that tag. Right. Anybody
Speaker 1: with less than twenty points has a zero percent chance
Speaker 1: of drawing. So that's how your preference points works. Bonus points,
Speaker 1: like my home state of Washington or Nevada, they are
Speaker 1: going to square your points and that's how many numbers
Speaker 1: you get thrown in the hat. So let's say you
Speaker 1: have twenty points, You've got four hundred numbers in the hat.
Speaker 1: If you have ten points, you've got one hundred numbers
Speaker 1: in the hat. So it it gives you, It gives
Speaker 1: you the preference of you know, I say preference is
Speaker 1: the wrong work. We're talking bonus points. It gives you.
Speaker 1: The longer you apply, the better your odds are. Right.
Speaker 1: It gives you that almost a loyalty, loyalty points in
Speaker 1: a way. Yeah, And so Nevada and Washington run a
Speaker 1: straight bonus point system. Oregon in Utah run a modified
Speaker 1: preference slash lottery system. So I'm going to get these
Speaker 1: numbers wrong, but I want to say seventy five to
Speaker 1: twenty five, So seventy five percent of the takes are
Speaker 1: given on a preference point system and twenty five percent
Speaker 1: maybe random or twenty five percents like a bonus point.
Speaker 1: So then they give out a certain amount to tags
Speaker 1: that way, and then there's the over the counter sales.
Speaker 1: You need to understand, you know, as you go into
Speaker 1: each state kind of what your odds are, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of how they're going to be figured out. Whether
Speaker 1: you're a high point winner, they're just gonna tell you
Speaker 1: have zero all the way up to a certain point.
Speaker 1: You've got states like Arizona that I don't even know
Speaker 1: how they work, but there's always a random possibility. There's
Speaker 1: always a chance you can draw the tag, but it's
Speaker 1: it's usually very very low until you get up towards
Speaker 1: those those max point holders. And my second question we
Speaker 1: answered already kind of in that, So what are the
Speaker 1: difference between limited entry tags and over the counter tags?
Speaker 1: So Dirk correct me if I'm wrong, I would say
Speaker 1: to describe this, most states designate certain areas within their
Speaker 1: their state as being limited entry. It's usually they're trying
Speaker 1: to create a high a high quality hunting experience, maybe
Speaker 1: bigger bulls, less hunters, more ble whatever, it may be
Speaker 1: some combination of those pressure whatever it may be they're
Speaker 1: creating a limited opportunity, and they're usually the most sought
Speaker 1: after tags, and so what you typically get is those
Speaker 1: are harder to draw, they're more limited, Your draw ods
Speaker 1: go way down. And then on the very other end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, you've got your opportunity tags, which are
Speaker 1: going to be your over the counter opportunities within within
Speaker 1: that state. And I'm not gonna we're talking limited entry
Speaker 1: and over the counter, and then there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: in between. So you have super premium on one side.
Speaker 1: Let's think, you know, if you're a mildear guy the
Speaker 1: ponseigant in Utah, or if you're an ELK guy. You
Speaker 1: know back in the day it was Unit nine, Unit
Speaker 1: ten in Arizona, whatever it may be, like, you have
Speaker 1: your ultra premiums, and then you've got your over the
Speaker 1: counter on the other end. And in the middle there's
Speaker 1: lots of different options. And this is where we're hopefully
Speaker 1: going to get to in our main discussion is how
Speaker 1: do you strategize that, Like, I don't need to go,
Speaker 1: I don't need to be in Unit nine or ten Arizona.
Speaker 1: I just want an opportunity, but it needs to be
Speaker 1: better than over the counter, right, or or I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily want that. I want something that's maybe in between
Speaker 1: Unit nine. You know, maybe they've got giant bowls, but
Speaker 1: I don't have to work my tail off. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a sliding scale, and that's that's kind of the difference
Speaker 1: between those limited entry over the counter. And then you're
Speaker 1: the opportunity of you getting those tags.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and and you have to look at opportunity
Speaker 2: to like, you know, you have the opportunity to hunt
Speaker 2: elk or deer, whatever it is you're trying to pursue.
Speaker 2: So an opportunity rich tag, you know, whether I said
Speaker 2: over the counter or an unlimited draw. You know something,
Speaker 2: there's lots of tags. You have the opportunity to go hunting. Now,
Speaker 2: you may not have the opportunity to see a mature
Speaker 2: class of animal. You may not have an opportunity to
Speaker 2: see a lot of animals, but you'll have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to get out there, pack your bow, your gun around,
Speaker 2: whatever muzzleoder around and see the country and you just
Speaker 2: might run into one. So you really have to do
Speaker 2: some research and kind of figure out what is the
Speaker 2: best one for you, and or do you just want
Speaker 2: to get out there. You know, you know, when all
Speaker 2: the all the if you come up empty on on
Speaker 2: all all the other options, you know, maybe you still
Speaker 2: want to get out there and hone your skills. So
Speaker 2: it's all personal preference, really yep yep.
Speaker 1: And then the last question generated by chat GPT, how
Speaker 1: can I increase my chances of drawing a tag? And
Speaker 1: like I said, some of these kind of are running
Speaker 1: into each other. Is our first question? You know, our
Speaker 1: first question kind of got some answers. There's multiple ways,
Speaker 1: and we're going to dive into this. I would say
Speaker 1: number one, which you may or may not have a
Speaker 1: whole lot of effect on, is as soon as you
Speaker 1: get your hunting license. If your goal is to hunt
Speaker 1: out west, have your mom and dad started applying for
Speaker 1: you for twelve If you're older now and you've got
Speaker 1: some time, like look at the reality of drawing tags.
Speaker 1: To be honest, if I wasn't, you know as deep
Speaker 1: as I am in some of these states like Arizona,
Speaker 1: Utah not saying don't apply, but the odds now, if
Speaker 1: you're okay hunting late rifle, late archery, I think you
Speaker 1: still have a shot, Like you just need to be
Speaker 1: a realistic your goals are. But if your goal is
Speaker 1: to hunt one time in a premium Arizona unit with
Speaker 1: the you know, with what Arizona is known for is
Speaker 1: elk hunting, you're gonna probably be disappointed and you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna kick the bucket before you get that chance. Right.
Speaker 1: But if you're okay going and hunting, you know a
Speaker 1: unit that maybe has broken bowls and you just want
Speaker 1: to lk hunt like killing you know, the most perfect
Speaker 1: put together or getting that that same experience as like
Speaker 1: an Arizona quality archery all hunt, you can apply. So
Speaker 1: apply early, be realistic about your goals. My buddy Robert Hanneman,
Speaker 1: I've got a chance to do some you know elk
Speaker 1: shape camps with them and bend around. His whole goal
Speaker 1: is applied for less popular units, like just give me
Speaker 1: a tag and maybe limit the people and then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go use my hunting skill to like do the rest. Right,
Speaker 1: So you can apply for less popular hunting units the
Speaker 1: tag A lot of times, opportunity in a somewhat decent
Speaker 1: unit is all we really need. And then you just
Speaker 1: have to participate in a lot of drawings and bonus
Speaker 1: point systems or or the other opportunities when you go
Speaker 1: into New Mexico or when you go into Idaho and
Speaker 1: they don't have point systems yet it is an equal
Speaker 1: playing field. Now there are some odds stacked against you,
Speaker 1: but it's it's very level. And when you go into
Speaker 1: New Mexico, you know everybody's heard about the HELI, so
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not blowing up somebody's spot. But
Speaker 1: maybe you don't go put in for unit sixteen. You
Speaker 1: go put in for a unit that has forty five
Speaker 1: percent draw ods. It's known to be a little bit
Speaker 1: tougher hunt that maybe isn't the premium dates, but there's
Speaker 1: just strategies where you know being in those systems. And
Speaker 1: then for all of you that aren't math nerds, the
Speaker 1: chance of you drawing a tag. Let's say I've got
Speaker 1: a two percent chance of drawing a tag, and let's
Speaker 1: say I put in fifty times. We all know that
Speaker 1: you multiply how many times you put in by the
Speaker 1: percentage of your draw and I should draw one tag. Right,
Speaker 1: So what that tells us is, yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: lot of very two percent draw tag is very tough.
Speaker 1: But if I put my name in the hat, fifty times,
Speaker 1: I've got it, I should, by the odds, draw one
Speaker 1: of those fifty tags. It's just how the math works
Speaker 1: out now. Doesn't happen, not very much, and is it expensive,
Speaker 1: very expensive to put in for fifty tags. But what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is the more you put in, the more
Speaker 1: you're going to be rewarded on those tag opportunities.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The other option, which we're not really getting into because
Speaker 1: I feel like residents know their own state and their
Speaker 1: own systems. When you're from Washington, like myself, I do
Speaker 1: hunt my home state. I did this year, I have
Speaker 1: in the past on special hunts, but I'm always thinking
Speaker 1: outside of my own state. So I'm basically a non
Speaker 1: resident hunter on the ground on ninety nine percent of
Speaker 1: my planning. But within your own state, Dirk living in Idaho,
Speaker 1: I'm jealous of you know, guys that live in Montana, Wyoming,
Speaker 1: you know, Colorado, Montana. I think I already said Montana.
Speaker 1: But the guys that live in states that still aren't
Speaker 1: limited like they have it the best. And I think
Speaker 1: over the last ten years, Dirk living in Idaho can
Speaker 1: attest to it, like hunters and outdoorsmen are moving the
Speaker 1: states just for that opportunity. But it's a given they've
Speaker 1: got a chance to hunt good over the counter general
Speaker 1: stuff every year where me and Washington, YEI I can
Speaker 1: grind it out. I've got some good opportunity, but they're
Speaker 1: not the best hunts. And then you've got people that
Speaker 1: live in Nevada. They can't hunt elk every year, which
Speaker 1: is like a weird thing to me, even being from Washington,
Speaker 1: Like you don't get the hunt elk every year in
Speaker 1: your own state. Same thing with Arizona, same thing with
Speaker 1: New Mexico. Right, there's some states where these guys have
Speaker 1: turned into you hunt with your buddy, or you hunt
Speaker 1: with your buddies buddy when they draw, just so you
Speaker 1: can be out in the field and experience it. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of all over the board on you know
Speaker 1: what your chances are drawing a tag. And that's not
Speaker 1: a bad system. And if you are in a state
Speaker 1: or you're learning to all hunt, like going on hunts
Speaker 1: with buddies that draw tags or being invited, you're offering
Speaker 1: to be a packer. Just being involved is gonna going
Speaker 1: to pay off when you do draw tag.
Speaker 2: Right, Absolutely, going to the hunt. I've been going to
Speaker 2: the hunt expos for I don't know, probably twelve years now,
Speaker 2: and talk to a lot of sportsmen, a lot of
Speaker 2: them in Utah. Don't want to pick on anybody in particular,
Speaker 2: but a lot of them in Utah. And you talk
Speaker 2: to people and said, hey, are you an elk hunter?
Speaker 2: I'd like to know, but I'd like to be. I've
Speaker 2: been putting in for draws, you know, and and at
Speaker 2: some point, you know, when I draw my tag, then
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get really serious about elk hunting, you know.
Speaker 2: You know, But I've got eight more years or ten
Speaker 2: more years before I get into that that point range
Speaker 2: where I can draw that tag. So I feel like
Speaker 2: a big mistake is people will kind of sit on
Speaker 2: their laurels all those years while they're trying to draw
Speaker 2: that that crown jewel tag. But they're not honing their
Speaker 2: skills as a hunter, and they should definitely be hunting
Speaker 2: these lesser opportunities for big mature animals maybe, but more
Speaker 2: opportunity to get out there, mix it up with some elk.
Speaker 2: Learn some skills, learn how to learn how to you know,
Speaker 2: maybe the the way elk act, you know, to learn
Speaker 2: the biology, learn the country, learn how to move, move,
Speaker 2: learn how to hunt that way. Whenever you finally do
Speaker 2: get that that really good tag, then you're gonna be
Speaker 2: feeling a lot more confident in in your skills.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, build that foundation. You you go out and
Speaker 1: try to, you know, put the top floor on the
Speaker 1: building without a foundation. It's it's just you're you're setting
Speaker 1: yourself up for a disaster, and you know, get out
Speaker 1: hunt with buddies, you hunt on your own hard units.
Speaker 1: You're gonna set yourself up for a lot better you know,
Speaker 1: chances when you finally do draw that tag for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we spend a little more time than we normally
Speaker 1: do on those questions. But once again, you have questions
Speaker 1: for me or my guests, or Dirk or his guests,
Speaker 1: feel free to email them to us at ct D
Speaker 1: apt phelps game Calls dot com or I know Dirk's
Speaker 1: got a little hotline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can call in. You can call the super hotline,
Speaker 2: the CTD hotline if you will phone numbers two zero
Speaker 2: eight two one nine seven seven zero one, leave a message,
Speaker 2: and if you leave a cool question or a cool story,
Speaker 2: I'll play it on my podcast. Maybe Jason can play
Speaker 2: it on his, but we'll try to answer it or
Speaker 2: just kind of address it, and you have three minutes
Speaker 2: to record your question or your comment and then it's
Speaker 2: gonna cut you off. So make it quick, keep it shut,
Speaker 2: keep shure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. So now, uh yeah, we're gonna
Speaker 1: jump into our discussion, get jump in a little bit
Speaker 1: more about important dates. But before we get into our discussion, Derek,
Speaker 1: I got some some I'm gonna hit you with some
Speaker 1: quick questions just and this is all personal preference. There's
Speaker 1: no right or wrong answer.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're gonna judge me, though you're always
Speaker 2: judging it.
Speaker 1: This is this is a judge free zone because we've
Speaker 1: said it before on here, not not to not to
Speaker 1: get all sensitive, but like everybody does it for their
Speaker 1: own reason. Right, You've been hunting for I want to
Speaker 1: date you for forty plus years probably.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not that old.
Speaker 1: Geez felt thirty five plus years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I'm just talked maybe not hunting, but out in
Speaker 1: the woods thinking around.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, my whole life.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, you've been doing it for a long time,
Speaker 1: You've accomplished certain things you set out to do, and
Speaker 1: you may have a different goal set than the guy
Speaker 1: that just picks up their bow, or I don't. Are
Speaker 1: we allowed to use adult onset hunters. I think it's acceptable.
Speaker 1: These adult onset hunters, like they're specifically out there to
Speaker 1: fill their freezer with organic meat, so they, I mean
Speaker 1: any hyder hair that's legal, like that may be their
Speaker 1: goal me or you, Like I'm going into this unit
Speaker 1: that took me twenty years a draw and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: hold No, yeah, I'm gonna eat the thing, don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong, but I'm going for the maximum amount of
Speaker 1: horn on their head, the maximum amount of age on
Speaker 1: their body. Like you're going out there for some specific things,
Speaker 1: so they can't get this wrong. But I'm curious, like
Speaker 1: from a user's perspective, would you hunt would you rather
Speaker 1: hunt a marginal and when I say marginal, you might
Speaker 1: run into elk every three days or here bigle every
Speaker 1: three days? Or would you rather hunt the best unit
Speaker 1: in your state every seven years?
Speaker 2: At this point, I want both? Can I say that
Speaker 2: I want both?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, I want to hunt elk every single year.
Speaker 2: So and and that's what I do now. So and
Speaker 2: sometimes like the hundred, one of the arguably probably one
Speaker 2: of the worst units, in Idaho to hunt in the
Speaker 2: last couple of years. Rifle hunting too, you know. So
Speaker 2: I want to hunt every year. I want to have
Speaker 2: those opportunities to hunt every year, and I'll sacrifice opportunity
Speaker 2: at seeing big animals just so I can get out
Speaker 2: there and then try to use my wismorship, use my
Speaker 2: hunting skills, use my scouting, my time on the ground
Speaker 2: to find the places where I will have success. But
Speaker 2: I don't want to wait every seven years to hunt
Speaker 2: a really good unit. But I do want the opportunity
Speaker 2: someday to hunt, you know, a really great unit. There's
Speaker 2: a there's a unit, elk unit, idahood. I would give
Speaker 2: anything to hunt, but who knows, I may not I
Speaker 2: may not ever draw that text, and.
Speaker 1: I get it. It's it's tough. And that's where hopefully
Speaker 1: when we get into like overall strategy, you're trying to
Speaker 1: accomplish both of these things at the same time. You
Speaker 1: try to keep that maybe marginal unit every year, but
Speaker 1: maybe use other states for a quality pitch or a
Speaker 1: change up, you know, to your normal system. So we'll
Speaker 1: get into that a little bit more. How would you
Speaker 1: define opportunity. We talked a little bit prior to the podcast, Like,
Speaker 1: what is opportunity? Is it just having your bow in
Speaker 1: your hand or is it what would you describe as opportunity?
Speaker 1: You know, everybody talks about quality versus opportunity versus, but
Speaker 1: but I think opportunity is very vague and what people
Speaker 1: would consider that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a pretty broad, broad and out
Speaker 2: or broad definition. But it depends on who you ask,
Speaker 2: and and then maybe through the lens that I see
Speaker 2: the world or or you see the world, or whoever's
Speaker 2: saying it sees the world to me, opportunity depending on
Speaker 2: where you're at. You know, I feel like a good
Speaker 2: opportunity hunt would be I can have the opportunity hunt
Speaker 2: number one, of course, but I'm gonna have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to see animals, have the opportunity to get away from
Speaker 2: people and have a good hunting experience. I'm looking for
Speaker 2: a good hunting experience overall. Now, it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: have giant animals running everywhere, but maybe there is a
Speaker 2: nice one there somewhere and I actually seeing animals. Different
Speaker 2: game departments may see that different. They're like, it's an
Speaker 2: opportunity for you to buy a tag and to go hunting.
Speaker 2: Then that's kind of how they see it. You know,
Speaker 2: the state of Idahola pick on them a little bit.
Speaker 2: They have always said, you know, we're an opportunity state.
Speaker 2: We're not a trophy state by any means, but I
Speaker 2: kind of feel like they use that term pretty loosely. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's some of these places you do have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to buy a tag and go hunting, but you may
Speaker 2: not have the opportunity to like see very many animals
Speaker 2: or whatever, depending on the area, of course, So you
Speaker 2: have to That's where I guess doing research on your
Speaker 2: own and like like getting kind of nerdy and like
Speaker 2: breaking breaking down each area that you think you might
Speaker 2: might want to hunt and try to like figure in
Speaker 2: the numbers to figure out if it's it's something more
Speaker 2: than just being able to have a tag and like
Speaker 2: get out outside and go hunting them. Like everybody likes
Speaker 2: to get out there and enjoy the hunt, but you
Speaker 2: also like to enjoy the meat the harvest, you know,
Speaker 2: whether whether you're you're killing an animal or or maybe
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to try to kill one, you know, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I like to use extremes to explain the example.
Speaker 1: So you could say the state could say they provide
Speaker 1: an opportunity if they take every archery out hunter in
Speaker 1: the entire state of Washington, put us in the tiniest
Speaker 1: little mud flow unit next amount Saint Helens. Right now,
Speaker 1: that's technically an opportunity, but it's going to be the
Speaker 1: worst hunting experience of your life. Or you can say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one lucky tag holder and he's the
Speaker 1: only one that can hunt the entire state of Washington. Like,
Speaker 1: those are both opportunity, but it's a completely different experience.
Speaker 1: I think what you know, And the only reason I'm
Speaker 1: trying to define this is because this word opportunity gets
Speaker 1: thrown around a lot, like it's a very minimum, it's
Speaker 1: just a tag, a chance, but like in reality, you really,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe even the best hunter has a zero
Speaker 1: percent chance of killing anything because of the odds they're
Speaker 1: stuck into. When I think of when I'm going out,
Speaker 1: when I talk personally about opportunity, if I hunt hard
Speaker 1: five to seven to ten days, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: one to maybe three opportunities, right, maybe more shotty lower
Speaker 1: on the end I'm gonna get I'm going to get
Speaker 1: a chance, and there may be a two or three
Speaker 1: day stretch in there where it's a ghost town or
Speaker 1: I haven't figured the dang place out, you know. But
Speaker 1: eventually that takes a little work, maybe a little more hiking,
Speaker 1: maybe a little more dedication to an area, maybe getting
Speaker 1: up earlier or whatever. But if I if I can
Speaker 1: hone in and use my skills and figure out, like
Speaker 1: I want an opportunity out an ELK, whether I blow it,
Speaker 1: whether the setup gets screwed up, whether they win me,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. Like, that's kind of how I
Speaker 1: determine an opportunity. Give me a shot, maybe one to
Speaker 1: three shots ver seven to ten day period and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be happy. Yeah, but that opportunity.
Speaker 2: I think that's a fair, fair analysis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is a little side question kind of
Speaker 1: went away from the quick fire and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, COVID gets a lot of blame for this,
Speaker 1: and it's it's obvious, you know, we're a is us
Speaker 1: both being in a business. We track it, We've seen it.
Speaker 1: We've seen tag numbers. We could watch Colorado put out
Speaker 1: a data set like first time TAG applications skyrocketed that
Speaker 1: first year at COVID. Do you feel like this current
Speaker 1: pressure for for the allocation of big game tags or
Speaker 1: like the ability to even get them, is ever going
Speaker 1: to subside or do you think it's here to stay?
Speaker 1: I know, and I always struggle with this, and I
Speaker 1: should have did some research on the data. I'm a
Speaker 1: horrible podcast host because of this. But we always you
Speaker 1: always hear like hunting's dying or hunting's numbers are going
Speaker 1: down from this point to that point. I want to know,
Speaker 1: is it tag numbers have to be fallen at the
Speaker 1: same rate or somebody's lye into me, you know, like
Speaker 1: or we do you feel or do you think there's
Speaker 1: any sign that this like request you know, this this
Speaker 1: demand for these tag numbers is ever going to go
Speaker 1: down or we just is it stuck and it's here
Speaker 1: to stay?
Speaker 2: Man? I think I think right now it's so popular,
Speaker 2: so trendy to come to the West and hunt, which
Speaker 2: I get it, like I see the allure. I participate
Speaker 2: in it, like I love hunting like in the West,
Speaker 2: and I think that is probably probably an all time
Speaker 2: high the popularity like Idaho, you know, like you said
Speaker 2: ten years ago, you could buy if you wanted to
Speaker 2: go hunt Idaho archery ELK on the last day of
Speaker 2: season as a non resident, you could show up and
Speaker 2: buy a tag at the gas station. Now they sell
Speaker 2: out in the first couple hours of the first day
Speaker 2: in December the year of the December before the season,
Speaker 2: that before the hunting the next fall season. So I
Speaker 2: don't know if there's I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 2: trends kind of come and go. Popularity. I know, back
Speaker 2: in that certain heydays of hunting different places used to
Speaker 2: be kind of like huge, you know, popularity, But then
Speaker 2: something happened. Maybe it's not as cool anymore. Maybe those
Speaker 2: people don't care about it anymore. Maybe that that population
Speaker 2: aged out into where the younger generations not backfilling. But
Speaker 2: they say hunting recruitments down across the United States, and
Speaker 2: I think, and they always say, well, it's not necessarily
Speaker 2: the people coming out West to hunt. It's it's the
Speaker 2: young people in the other parts of the United States.
Speaker 2: You know, there's they don't they don't have the kids,
Speaker 2: you know, getting into hunting, you know, going hunting with dad, grandpa, grandma, whoever, mom, whatever.
Speaker 2: They don't have those those kids backfill in numbers as
Speaker 2: hunters every year, which I definitely can see that, and
Speaker 2: it's tough with kids hunting. I mean, you're you're competing
Speaker 2: with instant gratification of video games, uh, social media whatever,
Speaker 2: you want to watch digital videos, movies on demand at
Speaker 2: any time, any anywhere you can that you have so
Speaker 2: many options of like instant gratification for kids these days,
Speaker 2: to where hunting well, let's just you know, we all
Speaker 2: know we're all hunters. It's it's hard, you know. It's
Speaker 2: the days can be long, they're physical, the weather can
Speaker 2: be super hot, super cold, somewhere in between. But it's
Speaker 2: not definitely not an instant gratification. You have to put
Speaker 2: in some work and then reap the rewards. And I
Speaker 2: think with just society today, it's it's really hard to
Speaker 2: compete with that. So overall, I think numbers are falling.
Speaker 2: But I feel like the little the saving grace. Maybe
Speaker 2: once people grow up and they want they see what
Speaker 2: life has to offer and they're just like, dude, I'm
Speaker 2: tired of spending my vacation time sitting looking at four
Speaker 2: walls or whatever I want. There's more got to be
Speaker 2: more to life. And they learn about Western hunting or
Speaker 2: hunting in general wherever they're at, and then maybe that
Speaker 2: adult onset hunter that they can. Maybe they're that's the
Speaker 2: new answer, Like that's going to perpetuate hunting through the future.
Speaker 1: But I feel like at.
Speaker 2: Some point it may it may not be quite as popular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I talked to my dad about
Speaker 1: you know, they used to travel them on tana and
Speaker 1: do a little bit out of state hunting, you know.
Speaker 1: But I feel and not saying this is bad, but
Speaker 1: like I feel like a lot of guys with the
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet, social media, everybody out east is
Speaker 1: now applying, right or they they see how easy it
Speaker 1: is to just plan for this and just go do it,
Speaker 1: you know. So they're getting their group of three to
Speaker 1: four buddies together and they're coming out west making it
Speaker 1: like a yearly or an annual. Not like I say,
Speaker 1: not saying it's wrong. Or they're able to apply from
Speaker 1: their you know, their desk and whatever it is North
Speaker 1: Carolina or you know, New York or wherever it may be.
Speaker 1: Those guys can sit and apply. They draw great. If not,
Speaker 1: then they put the same amount of money in that
Speaker 1: we did. And and it's just it's it's putting like
Speaker 1: you say, we maybe losing some of those numbers or
Speaker 1: that recruitment. But we're getting maybe some some pressure on
Speaker 1: the Western system from from you know, the guy's back
Speaker 1: east that love to hunt. They're just more willing to
Speaker 1: come out now. So it is I I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: it is an issue with It makes it tough for
Speaker 1: a guy that selfishly wants to get my own tags.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if there's a fixed for it
Speaker 1: or not, you know. And I the last thing I
Speaker 1: want to do is wish like ill will on the economy,
Speaker 1: Like I wish people would just struggle more so I could,
Speaker 1: you know, and I would be in a good spot
Speaker 1: so I could hang in there.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the right or wrong answer is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: during that coach you have a crazy COVID bubble.
Speaker 2: I mean people had I think people had a lot
Speaker 2: of extra money maybe in their pockets from all the
Speaker 2: the Biden Biden economics or whatever, you know, they had
Speaker 2: that extra money in their pocket. They're like, you know,
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do go elk hunting X and
Speaker 2: right wherever. And they buy the gear, they try to
Speaker 2: get the tag or they do buy the tags. And
Speaker 2: I think they that that. I think that that's where
Speaker 2: one of the big upticks is come. Now with things
Speaker 2: are the economies a little different now, things are expensive.
Speaker 2: Maybe families are having to cut back here and there,
Speaker 2: and you may see a downtick, you know, and in
Speaker 2: some of those numbers. But uh, I feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of people make that a priority. Once they've tasted
Speaker 2: that that that fruit, man, they want to go again.
Speaker 2: They want to go hunt and again, and and they'll
Speaker 2: make They'll make other sacrifices. They're not going to buy,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe three lattes a day. Then maybe they'll
Speaker 2: cut those out of the old the old budget.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've got a I got a crazy idea.
Speaker 1: I'm going to see if you are in support or
Speaker 1: you would be unsupportive of my idea.
Speaker 2: Well most of the time, most of the time when
Speaker 2: you got a crazy idea, I have to like raise
Speaker 2: an eyebrow.
Speaker 1: I know. And I'm gonna be a hypocrite for saying
Speaker 1: it because right now I'm doing the opposite of what
Speaker 1: you would too, because it would force you to choose.
Speaker 1: But what if all states, all United States, you know,
Speaker 1: all fifty of them in the Union, got together and
Speaker 1: said you know we're all going to join up because
Speaker 1: opportunity is so thin. We're gonna let you hunt one
Speaker 1: elk within the fifty, We're gonna let you hunt one
Speaker 1: meal deer within the fifty. We're gonna let you hunt
Speaker 1: one white tailed deer. But somehow, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how you'd manage it or how you do it, but
Speaker 1: there was a pack that I'm gonna call it the
Speaker 1: United States Hunting Packed, and it's gonna just limit. Like
Speaker 1: Dirk wants to apply for Colorado elk. Can he draws it?
Speaker 1: Then he's got to return his Idaho tag this year,
Speaker 1: or he draws an Arizona tag like he's out of
Speaker 1: all the other And I don't know how you manage it,
Speaker 1: But would you be in support of something like that
Speaker 1: where it's it's getting more back to what do you
Speaker 1: need in your freezer to survive? And not so much
Speaker 1: as a and entertainment I guess, And like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm in an hypocrite right now. Right I've hunted elk
Speaker 1: in two to three states for the last ten years.
Speaker 1: I've hunted meal deer, whitetail, whatever it may be. But
Speaker 1: is do you think hunters would support that would you
Speaker 1: support that the Have I not thought it through all
Speaker 1: the way, Like, is there a way that if it
Speaker 1: could somehow magically happen that it would be good for
Speaker 1: everybody's experience and opportunity?
Speaker 2: Man, this reminds me of those little little game my
Speaker 2: kids used to play with me, would you rather? Would
Speaker 2: you rather eat a piece of dog poop or have
Speaker 2: a bird poop in your mouth? I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: some ridiculous like I don't want either one of these things,
Speaker 2: Like this is terrible. It's almost like one of those
Speaker 2: kinds of questions would you rather? Questions?
Speaker 1: But what if you saw this, like open up some
Speaker 1: Arizona top tier units because somebody'd do their dream hunt
Speaker 1: in Colorado or Utah, you know, right? And so I
Speaker 1: was trying to think of the positives that could come
Speaker 1: out of something.
Speaker 2: Like this and no, and as you were talking, I
Speaker 2: was kind of thinking of that thing, like, man, And
Speaker 2: I can see like people like having that same mindset, like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm going to really try to go to these certain
Speaker 2: places and then overlook these other places that are really good,
Speaker 2: especially if after a couple three years and not having
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure, Yeah, that may just satisfy you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not. You know, it's not like a body count
Speaker 2: every fall. I want to go, Yeah, yeah, tag as
Speaker 2: many Elk as I possibly can, but it's more of
Speaker 2: an experience and you feel like, Okay, if I can
Speaker 2: have three ELK tags, it's a game of odds, right,
Speaker 2: one of those hunts is going to be really good
Speaker 2: because of timing, population and lack of other hunters, area turning,
Speaker 2: whatever it is, one of those three are gonna be
Speaker 2: really good compared to maybe the other two. But if
Speaker 2: you had to pick one throughout the whole, the whole
Speaker 2: gamut and focus on that, I mean, I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent against it. I'm not gonna say
Speaker 2: no bullshit, but I'm gonna I'm not I'm not against it.
Speaker 2: I mean that that could open up some cool opportunities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just see like me personally and not saying
Speaker 1: I'm doing it because it would be it would benefit
Speaker 1: a lot of guys. And I don't know how you
Speaker 1: do it, Like if the application you select, like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna apply and drop down this time, Utah, you select,
Speaker 1: you know, and how you do it. But let's say
Speaker 1: I don't know how if you had to pick one
Speaker 1: and you can only apply for one to start with.
Speaker 1: Like then it would be just a big gamble of
Speaker 1: where you thought everybody else was going that Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like Arizona's got a great horn growth, I'm gonna sneak
Speaker 1: into Utah. I'm gonna go to Nevada, or I've got
Speaker 1: enough points in Wyoming or Montana, like you would. I
Speaker 1: feel like people would slip in with a lot less points,
Speaker 1: and it would really you know, if you assume everybody
Speaker 1: applies for all the same Western states, would would put
Speaker 1: eighty percent less pressure on the units. You know, everybody's
Speaker 1: at a different point level. But it would ultimately clean
Speaker 1: itself up, I think, relatively quick. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know how how the hell it would ever work,
Speaker 1: like how do you fund the agencies and how do
Speaker 1: you do the split of money and all of that.
Speaker 1: But I like the thought of the idea that, like
Speaker 1: I would hunt, I would love that system if it
Speaker 1: gave me a more quality hunt every year and I
Speaker 1: got my one L hunt. But yeah, like I say,
Speaker 1: then I'm becoming a little bit selfish again, Like I
Speaker 1: need to make sure I get my one L cunt
Speaker 1: and this system may have some way where hey, guess what,
Speaker 1: you applied for some mediocre unit and Wyoming the same
Speaker 1: year that everybody else did the same strategy, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're out. Yeah, I don't know. I've always try
Speaker 1: to think, like, how do you fix a log jam?
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I've got the right answer,
Speaker 1: but just an interesting idea. But you had a good
Speaker 1: segue of in your little spiel there on like just
Speaker 1: coming up with an overall strategy. Let's talk about that
Speaker 1: a little bit before we we wrap this one up
Speaker 1: and give some key dates that people need to remember.
Speaker 1: Me and you both, I don't I don't even want
Speaker 1: to count how many states we apply for? What eight, nine,
Speaker 1: ten states across West? Maybe more, maybe less for Elk
Speaker 1: and Deer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, less than that for me, but I know you
Speaker 2: between us maybe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somewhere right in there. So I think I applied
Speaker 1: for seven or eight being from Washington because it sucks
Speaker 1: so bad here. Yeah. So so going into that, Derek,
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your strategy, and I
Speaker 1: think we have similar strategies where we've got a couple
Speaker 1: of states on, Like, you know, you fortunately have Idaho
Speaker 1: as your your standby. You can always hunt there, and
Speaker 1: then you've probably got some states on what you'd call
Speaker 1: like more of your opportunity rotation. Then you've got some
Speaker 1: states more on on your you know, quality rotation and
Speaker 1: how you manage that year to year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, for the long for the long game.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna play a long game for like a
Speaker 2: once in a lifetime type of hunt, you know that.
Speaker 2: And that's my Arizona tag. So someday I'll apply. I've
Speaker 2: got enough points to draw a subpar unit. Definitely. I
Speaker 2: could probably hunt some of those later season, late season archery,
Speaker 2: late season rifle kind of hunts like you alluded to earlier,
Speaker 2: but that's not what I'm I'm looking for. I'm looking
Speaker 2: for that experience. I'm looking for the hunt where there's
Speaker 2: lots of bulls bugling. I can chase bugles all day
Speaker 2: and just like you just keep going over the next
Speaker 2: ridge and you never know what you're gonna see. You
Speaker 2: may see a giant, you may see a five point,
Speaker 2: but it's just like the quintessential Arizona hunt. So that's
Speaker 2: my one long shot hunt. You know, some day I'm
Speaker 2: gonna draw that, hopefully. And then I got some the
Speaker 2: stuff in the middle. So those are like your Wyoming's Montana's.
Speaker 2: You know it's gonna you can't hunt those every year
Speaker 2: as an non resident, but every few years you can.
Speaker 2: You can get lucky draw tag to go there, and
Speaker 2: I but I don't apply typically for their premium units.
Speaker 2: What I'm applying for is just their general over the counter,
Speaker 2: not over the counter, but their general units to where
Speaker 2: I'm going to have more opportunity to draw tag in
Speaker 2: a pool of opportunity there to hunt more often, you know,
Speaker 2: whether every two to five years, be able to go
Speaker 2: to those places because they're beautiful, they have decent population animals,
Speaker 2: and you never know, you might see a big one.
Speaker 2: And then there's the every year thing, you know, which,
Speaker 2: like you said, I'm fortunate live to live in Idaho,
Speaker 2: which as a resident, there's plenty of over the counter opportunities,
Speaker 2: Like every year I can go down buy a tag
Speaker 2: for whatever unit. You know, there's way more opportunity over
Speaker 2: the counter units in Idaho than there are limited units.
Speaker 2: So I'll be able to hunt, you know, I'll be
Speaker 2: able to hunt elk deer whatever here in Idaho. I
Speaker 2: just have to narrow my scope of where I want
Speaker 2: to go some units like I kind of allud to earlier,
Speaker 2: very tough. You know, a lot a lot of animals
Speaker 2: in them. But other units are are really good. But
Speaker 2: typically when you find an unit with a lot of
Speaker 2: animals and a lot of tags, you'll find a lot
Speaker 2: of people too. So it's kind of like that balancing act.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm in the same boat. I look at
Speaker 1: Arizona as my you know, once in a lifetime, I'm
Speaker 1: a little behind Dirk. I'm at like twelve or thirteen
Speaker 1: in the way it's kind of running away. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to settle on something that's not you're once
Speaker 1: in a lifetime type punks. I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: ever going to catch up to it. And then Utah
Speaker 1: I look at at one time, I was I was
Speaker 1: going to kind of miss the lower end units and
Speaker 1: try to get into it just a mid tier unit,
Speaker 1: you know, some of those some of those you know,
Speaker 1: premium units. I'm not spoiling anything for anybody, you know,
Speaker 1: the san Juans that you know, some of those units, like,
Speaker 1: I'm just never going to catch up to them. I
Speaker 1: could get lucky. So I'm looking at Utah as like
Speaker 1: a quality And then I've got Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon,
Speaker 1: you know, Washington kind of on this rotation for my
Speaker 1: every year worst case scenario of anything ever fell through,
Speaker 1: I would go to Colorado. I'm also nicing about Colorado
Speaker 1: is it has so much over the counter opportunity. I'm
Speaker 1: able to kind of keep my points as I'm going there.
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of building up for a decent rifle
Speaker 1: hunt or a decent muzzleoder hunt, you know, something that's
Speaker 1: a better unit outside of of just their general archy
Speaker 1: over the counter stuff. And every we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier about half of this day up on it
Speaker 1: and educated. One thing that's like weighing in this year
Speaker 1: is you watch Wyoming make a change between their special
Speaker 1: in general, right, and so maybe you've been eyeing like, well,
Speaker 1: I can get in a half year earlier under special,
Speaker 1: but guess what now you better want to pay two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars instead of nine hundred or whatever it is
Speaker 1: exactly so they're changing. You hear about what Wyoming did
Speaker 1: on their their oil tags. They went to ninety ten
Speaker 1: where right now they're dearn Elks not ninety ten. The
Speaker 1: day Wyoming switches there.
Speaker 2: Will explain to our listeners what an oil tag is
Speaker 2: because you kind of threw me off the first time
Speaker 2: you told said to oil.
Speaker 1: Okay, so once in a lifetime, so your sheep, your goose,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, acronym for once in a lifetime. Most states
Speaker 1: have them is once in a lifetime. Some states you
Speaker 1: may be able to have like a waiting period and
Speaker 1: jump back in as a resident. But for non residents,
Speaker 1: even in Washington, like if I draw a moose, sheep, goat,
Speaker 1: it's a once in a lifetime type tag. So Wyoming
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, switch to a ninety ten
Speaker 1: and by ninety ten ninety percent of the tags have
Speaker 1: to go to residents, ten percent can go to non residents. Well,
Speaker 1: that skewed the numbers quite a bit from what the
Speaker 1: past draw odds are. So let's say right now, it's
Speaker 1: taking us three years to draw the tag that Dirk wants,
Speaker 1: just a general ELK tag if they go from eighty
Speaker 1: twenty to ninety ten at now, I mean, this is
Speaker 1: exact math is going to take you six years with
Speaker 1: the same exact candidate pool. So like there's things like
Speaker 1: that where people that may have ten or eleven points,
Speaker 1: they're just getting close enough to a unit they want,
Speaker 1: Like they're starting to now strategize whether they're going to
Speaker 1: jump earlier, maybe shoot for a Lesher unit, because if
Speaker 1: they don't shoot for a Lestri unit and do that
Speaker 1: before the change, they've now just bumped themselves down into
Speaker 1: way below the unit they can get into right now.
Speaker 1: So like, as hunters and people that are into the game,
Speaker 1: like we're we're following that all the time, trying to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're getting the most out of your points,
Speaker 1: and and it just depends, like sometimes I'm willing to
Speaker 1: like sacrifice what I thought was gonna be a good
Speaker 1: quality hunt for an opportunity before something like that that
Speaker 1: comes down the pipeline. You know, Idaho I love. I
Speaker 1: always apply for Idaho and New Mexico zero points on
Speaker 1: their controlled hunts. I feel like it's a level playing field.
Speaker 1: I've got no more, no less opportunity to the next guy.
Speaker 1: But then there's strategies within that, Like if I've already
Speaker 1: got a pretty full plate for the for the fall,
Speaker 1: i may swing for the fences on Idaho controlled deer
Speaker 1: and elk right like I want. If I'm going to
Speaker 1: get a tag, I'm only going to change my plans
Speaker 1: for a premium where if my my my schedules looking
Speaker 1: real thin, I may decide I'm going to go for
Speaker 1: the you know, a controlled Hunt Idaho that's got ten
Speaker 1: percent draw odds, which is pretty good, you know. So
Speaker 1: there's strategies than that same thing within New Mexico. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can. You can set up every Heala unit and
Speaker 1: have a two percent draw odds when you get done,
Speaker 1: or you can start to look for some mediocre muzzl
Speaker 1: Er units and maybe have a thirty percent chance to
Speaker 1: draw on a take. So it really just depends on
Speaker 1: what you want to do, what your goal is, and
Speaker 1: you have to kind of just manage appropriately. And like
Speaker 1: I say, me and Dirker, I think I can speak
Speaker 1: for both of us, we're always we're always going to
Speaker 1: have that guaranteed tag, whether it's Colorado for Dirkett's Idaho
Speaker 1: for me at maybe Western Washington might be the greatest hunt,
Speaker 1: but I know I'm going to get a Hunt Elk
Speaker 1: every year, and then I'm using the draws to kind
Speaker 1: of supplement maybe something mid tier and then something like
Speaker 1: really high tier. If the if the draw odds are
Speaker 1: in my favor, I guess at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's one thing we didn't talk about yet
Speaker 2: is like state raffles too. So almost I think almost
Speaker 2: every state has a raffle, like you put it if
Speaker 2: you buy raffle tickets and for you know some kind
Speaker 2: of like in Idaho they call it the super hunt, right,
Speaker 2: and you can imply, you know, there's there's three or
Speaker 2: four different things. It's like maybe you apply for those
Speaker 2: once in a lifetime. You know, moose, sheep, goat, or
Speaker 2: it's or it's elk, or it's or it's an any animal.
Speaker 2: Like if you draw the super tag, you could hunt
Speaker 2: any of those. So it just depends. So it's just
Speaker 2: a raffle. You got hunt Expo. They do a bunch
Speaker 2: of raffles there, so you know, there there's auctions, you know,
Speaker 2: for the big money guys that want to throw a
Speaker 2: bunch of money. I mean I can't do it, but
Speaker 2: people can maybe get a governor tag or whatever. So
Speaker 2: there's there's those options too. But but for the like
Speaker 2: I've never done, you of those raffle tags, which I should,
Speaker 2: you know, just you know, put a tiny little bit
Speaker 2: of money in there, because if you if you don't win,
Speaker 2: if you don't play you can't win, right, So maybe
Speaker 2: I should be putting in for some of those raffle tags.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I we all know people that have
Speaker 1: drawn them, I think, Yeah, you know landowner tags or options.
Speaker 1: You know, some of these states do landowner tags. We've
Speaker 1: we've used those a few times ourselves when we we've
Speaker 1: had horrible luck in the draws and couldn't lie and
Speaker 1: stuff up. So whatever, your buddy, you know, And and
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I hate that that money gets involved
Speaker 1: in opportunity, but it's the reality. And you know, if
Speaker 1: you're set up to do it, and by all means,
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna hunt with that tag regardless, right, you know.
Speaker 1: So I've I've never felt guilty about that. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's my lifestyle. It's what I you know, I
Speaker 1: don't go drink on the weekends. I don't chew a
Speaker 1: can of Copenhagen everything. You know, it's like it's my
Speaker 1: lifestyle choice. So I can save up this little bit
Speaker 1: of money and and you know, not not get into
Speaker 1: me and my wife's budget and make it make it work.
Speaker 2: But it's fine, there's well, it's funny. I I've used
Speaker 2: one of this job. I used to have then when
Speaker 2: I first started going out of state to you know,
Speaker 2: the first time I went to Wyoming, I came back
Speaker 2: and one of the guys at work said, well, how
Speaker 2: much that cost you to go? I'm like, well the
Speaker 2: tag was I don't remember back then, it was like
Speaker 2: five hundred some bucks. And he had fuel, you got
Speaker 2: your food, you know, and lah la la la, and
Speaker 2: he goes, oh, it must be nice, like like I was,
Speaker 2: had all this extra income to throw around. But it's like, well,
Speaker 2: if you break it down, because that particular guy, he
Speaker 2: drinks a lot. Well if if if they cut back
Speaker 2: on like one of the bottle two bottles of vodka
Speaker 2: month that they they buy, he could have been he
Speaker 2: could have paid for that hunt. You know. It's just
Speaker 2: it seems like we can replace our vices maybe with
Speaker 2: something maybe a good advice like change your vice like
Speaker 2: from from from coffee stand lattes or or a lot
Speaker 2: of extra drinking or whatever, partying at the bar. You
Speaker 2: can take that money, just shove it in your pocket
Speaker 2: for for tags and elk hunts and deer hunts, and
Speaker 2: now you can afford it.
Speaker 1: Or he didn't, he didn't see you behind the scenes
Speaker 1: eating top Ramen every night for dinner for six months,
Speaker 1: so you could afford to go.
Speaker 2: Right right exactly top problem and hear.
Speaker 1: Me, now, it's all priorities. We we we probably over
Speaker 1: prioritize this compared to a lot of people, but it's
Speaker 1: important to us. It's it's part of my identity. I
Speaker 1: have to be out in the woods chasing something, so
Speaker 1: we do put lot of priority on it. And to
Speaker 1: close this up, Dirk, we're just gonna you kind of
Speaker 1: left me to this. You're like, hey, that's your thing.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to kind of walk through some
Speaker 1: important dates and deadlines if it's a state to interest you.
Speaker 1: And one thing that I'm not going to mention in this,
Speaker 1: which Dirk is probably going to kill me after this
Speaker 1: is certain states will have second draws or leftover tag draws.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say pay attention to those states.
Speaker 1: Is there's an opportunity because a lot of times people
Speaker 1: like forget about the initial stuff will pop up, and
Speaker 1: there's always opportunity. I think multiple states offer leftovers. You
Speaker 1: can either read draw or sometimes it's on a first
Speaker 1: come for serve basis, so there are limited opportunities. I
Speaker 1: would say it's getting tougher to get than it was
Speaker 1: in the past, but there are those opportunities in addition
Speaker 1: to the applications or controlled hunt. So Arizona, like I said,
Speaker 1: Arizona's actually the day we're recording this podcast, February sixth,
Speaker 1: deadline I believe at five pm Mountain time. So by
Speaker 1: the time this comes out, I allologize if you forgot,
Speaker 1: but you missed Elk and Antelope. Next up will be Montana.
Speaker 1: It's deadline will be April first, for you know, Deer
Speaker 1: and Elk. Colorado will be April second, so you get
Speaker 1: one more day to pony up for Colorado. Colorado is
Speaker 1: one of those states where you just have to buy
Speaker 1: a small I hope I don't get all this wrong.
Speaker 1: This is going off you years pass. That's why you
Speaker 1: should always check with the most up to date fish
Speaker 1: and wildlife rags. Colorado you have to buy like a
Speaker 1: small game license. You have to have a license in
Speaker 1: your pocket. In order to apply Montana, you have to
Speaker 1: front the money for the entire big game combo, which
Speaker 1: I think is approaching thirteen hundred ish for the big
Speaker 1: game Deer and elk Elk separately might be nine Deer
Speaker 1: might be set something to that effect. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: them all wrong.
Speaker 2: Expensive.
Speaker 1: Utah's end of April. April twenty fifth, you got to
Speaker 1: be in for deer, antelope, elk, bison, moose. They do
Speaker 1: all theirs and their oils at the same time. Then
Speaker 1: we go into Nevada. You get a couple, you get
Speaker 1: another week off. May eighth, you need to be in
Speaker 1: for Nevada bonus point system. Nevada requires you to buy
Speaker 1: a license and then buy each species point. Oregon is
Speaker 1: then May fifteenth. Once again, it does have some over
Speaker 1: the counter opportunities, so if you do apply, you don't
Speaker 1: have to least, I believe, buy your license again. There Washington,
Speaker 1: you have to buy your license. It's draw is May
Speaker 1: twenty second, we're super late. And then Idaho like always
Speaker 1: pulling up the rear. June fifth, you need to be
Speaker 1: applied in Idaho so that you have zero time to
Speaker 1: ask for your leave or get physically prepared for that
Speaker 1: hunt when you find out that you drew. Because I
Speaker 1: think they let you know, like what mid July for
Speaker 1: non residents. Crazy late, Yeah, that's crazy. So those are
Speaker 1: just some of your important dates. Like I say, if
Speaker 1: there's certain states you know, go confirm those days, but
Speaker 1: that just kind of you know, you're playing anywhere from
Speaker 1: like I said, today, Arizona kicks it off. Wyoming, I believe,
Speaker 1: was due on the thirty first for ELK January, so
Speaker 1: it's over Idaho. Over the counter stuff is already done
Speaker 1: way back on December first of the previous year. So
Speaker 1: coming up, we've got you know, we got New Mexico, Montana, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington,
Speaker 1: Idaho are still all out ahead of us from the
Speaker 1: time that this podcast will air, And you got a
Speaker 1: little bit of time after Arizona kicks things off here
Speaker 1: in February, so the next time you'll have to pay
Speaker 1: attention is the uh is New Mexico be coming up
Speaker 1: next on March twentieth, and then everything's you know, pretty
Speaker 1: quick in the spring, you know, April May after that.
Speaker 1: So those are kind of the dates, Like I say,
Speaker 1: come up with your own strategy. If it's one hundred
Speaker 1: percent straight opportunity, you don't care whether you're hunting horns
Speaker 1: or not. Like there are a lot of cow opportunities
Speaker 1: out there too, And hopefully the fishing game departments are
Speaker 1: doing their job right and and you know it needs
Speaker 1: to have cols taken out for the right reasons. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. Do you have anything else to add, Dirk
Speaker 1: on what you look for, like anything we may have forgot,
Speaker 1: like as you head into a into a winner trying
Speaker 1: to plan your hunts that you think.
Speaker 2: About now you know it's really helpful, is if because
Speaker 2: my memory is about as long as my pinky, So
Speaker 2: it's important to maybe go through those those different states
Speaker 2: that you're interested in and write down the dates and
Speaker 2: important dates, you know, when when the application opens and
Speaker 2: when it closes, and put that on your calendar, my
Speaker 2: on my phone calendar. That way it pops up. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I can start applying for Arizona or right, Oh shoot,
Speaker 2: I better tomorrow is the last day to apply. I
Speaker 2: better get my my act together and get it in
Speaker 2: because it's easy to get busy with life. I mean,
Speaker 2: you and I live this stuff. And there's been a
Speaker 2: couple of times over the years where I'm like, oh, oh, shoot,
Speaker 2: that was like I think last year I asked you
Speaker 2: about Colorado and you're like, yeah, that was like last month.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I was a real nice friend there.
Speaker 1: I really helped you out Thanks the last if you.
Speaker 2: Applied, thanks a lot, phelps for uh, you know, reminding me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I see how he is. Oh yeah, I team player.
Speaker 1: Trust me. I'm like two Arizona deer points behind my
Speaker 1: Elkin Antelope because they throw it off in its own
Speaker 1: little category later and I missed it multiple times. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's tough to miss. And I think I think
Speaker 1: there are some apps out there. I don't even know
Speaker 1: which ones to do it. There's got to be an
Speaker 1: app out there that reminds you on draw deadlines or
Speaker 1: like you, I'm the same way where I'm just going in.
Speaker 1: I take these days I just read off to you. Guys.
Speaker 1: I've got them all plugged into my calendar and you know,
Speaker 1: a week or two ahead of time because I'm telling
Speaker 1: you what. There are states where you try to plan
Speaker 1: in the last day and their systems go down in
Speaker 1: servers and some of them just don't allow you to redo.
Speaker 1: So if there's any technical difficulties, I want those to happen,
Speaker 1: you know, seven ten days ahead of the final day.
Speaker 2: I had an app on my phone that I got
Speaker 2: like in twenty thirteen. I think I paid the guy
Speaker 2: at dollar. It was something ridiculous cheap and he just
Speaker 2: started out and you went in and you picked the
Speaker 2: states that you had points in and stuff and you
Speaker 2: and you would get reminders through the app and text messages.
Speaker 2: Well that was like four phones ago, and I delete
Speaker 2: you know, you know how you clean out your phone
Speaker 2: you delete apps like a doing thing whatever. Well, I
Speaker 2: still get text messages on the states at the time
Speaker 2: that I had points in or I was applying in,
Speaker 2: but the new stuff it doesn't remind me so and
Speaker 2: I don't remember the name of the app. So it's like, man,
Speaker 2: if I really I really wish I remembered what that
Speaker 2: app was, but it was like point to Point Hunter
Speaker 2: or point save Point something I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's there's a lot. There's got to be
Speaker 1: an I like said, I don't use them, but there's
Speaker 1: got to be something out there. But yeah, that's kind
Speaker 1: of our our strategy, kind of our management of trying
Speaker 1: to get some tags. And yeah, we appreciate all of
Speaker 1: you listening in and if you have any questions for us,
Speaker 1: once again, send them over to us ct D at
Speaker 1: Phelps game Calls dot com or hit Dirk up on
Speaker 1: his hotline, which he's going to give us right now,
Speaker 1: right now, and let me oh, I didn't have you
Speaker 1: didn't have You're prepared early.
Speaker 2: Sorry, my fingers were faster than you were talking. But
Speaker 2: it's uh too O eight two one nine seven seven
Speaker 2: zero one, kind of like those Info infomercial guys on
Speaker 2: on the radio. And and also if you just want to,
Speaker 2: you know, get on there and and leave a message
Speaker 2: and say how good Maverick diaphragms are versus pink phelps
Speaker 2: sons that that's cool too. I mean, I love I
Speaker 2: love hearing that, and I can always forward those to
Speaker 2: Jason Derek.
Speaker 1: Just for that, I'm gonna put that phone number on
Speaker 1: a Craigslist ad for free firewood in the Boise area
Speaker 1: way and I'm going to destroy your line for that
Speaker 1: little No, I'm just kidding. I've never done to you,
Speaker 1: but sorry. We appreciate you all. We appreciate you all.
Speaker 1: Good luck, and you're in you're hunting for tags. There's
Speaker 1: two seasons now, you hunt for tags and you get
Speaker 1: to up for the animal later. So good luck, everybody.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you all, and take care of