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Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load.

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Speaker 2: Michael Verry's show is on the air. It's Charlie from

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Speaker 2: BlackBerry Smoke. I can feel a good one coming on.

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Speaker 1: It's the Michael Berry Show.

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Speaker 2: We are probably as good a time as any for

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Speaker 2: us to play maybe my all time favorite Thanksgiving call.

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Speaker 2: I have referenced this call over the years since that time.

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Speaker 2: Some of you will remember the subject of the call,

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Speaker 2: if not the name of the caller. Her name was Julianne,

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Speaker 2: and when she called in, it was just going to

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Speaker 2: be like any other call. She talked about the fact

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Speaker 2: that she's now married, her son has grown up, but

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Speaker 2: she went back to a time where she was a

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Speaker 2: single mom, her and her son had no money. And well,

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Speaker 2: I'll let her tell you the story, but before it starts,

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you I didn't see where this

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Speaker 2: story was going, and it has turned out to be

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Speaker 2: one of those stories that I love as much as

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Speaker 2: any call we've ever received. And it's also I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons I play it is because some

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Speaker 2: of you out there might be where Julianne was at

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Speaker 2: that time, and I like to think that maybe this

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Speaker 2: gives you the hope to understand things can get better,

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Speaker 2: and they will get better, Julianne. Yes, sir, tell us

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Speaker 2: about your odd tradition on Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 3: Well, I raised two little boys all by myself. I

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Speaker 3: was a single parent. They're both they're nineteen and twenty. Now.

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Speaker 3: One goes to ut and one goes to Texas State.

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Speaker 3: They're doing great. Good or night I raise them. I

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Speaker 3: raise them by myself, totally from infancy, and Tom's to

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Speaker 3: really lean.

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Speaker 2: Where was their name?

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Speaker 3: It's a long story, sir. I'd rather not get into

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Speaker 3: that part.

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Speaker 2: Was he alive and just not taking care of his business?

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Speaker 3: Yes, sir?

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Speaker 2: Is he a bad person?

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Speaker 3: He's got some issues.

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Speaker 2: Is he still alive today? Yes, sir, okay, do you

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Speaker 2: wish him ill?

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Speaker 3: No, I don't. I feel very bad for the man.

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Speaker 3: But that's neither here nor there. Well, I took many

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Speaker 3: years to get here, sir, believe me, but they're both

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Speaker 3: peace beyond understanding.

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Speaker 2: We call that ramon. What did you do? How'd you

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Speaker 2: support those boys?

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Speaker 3: Well, initially I opened a little daycare and I took

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Speaker 3: in children because I didn't want them to go off

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Speaker 3: to daycare, so I took children in and then I

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Speaker 3: also made burritos, and tacos and drove around and sold

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Speaker 3: those out of my car. And then once they were

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Speaker 3: able to go to school, once I got them into

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Speaker 3: kindergarten and first grade, I worked in a little office job.

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Speaker 3: And then I got lucky and met someone at the pool,

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Speaker 3: and I got into oil and gas. And now I'm

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Speaker 3: a doctor, the controller. I have a great career. Things

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Speaker 3: just kind of progressed. God was good.

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Speaker 2: I wish you were righting here beside me, because I

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Speaker 2: would give you a big hug.

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Speaker 4: Oh thank you.

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Speaker 2: I admire people like you, I really do.

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Speaker 3: My entire family lived in New Mexico, and their dad

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Speaker 3: would allow me to lead, and so it was just

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Speaker 3: the three of us. It was terrible. And one year

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Speaker 3: it was so bad we had sardines for Thanksgiving. That's

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Speaker 3: what we ate, sardines. So now every year for Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 3: I make sure that I have a beautiful plate and

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Speaker 3: I doll it up really pretty, and I make sure

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Speaker 3: I have sardines at our table so that we never

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Speaker 3: forget those. And that's my story.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. We keep that one in the

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Speaker 2: archives and I always look forward at Thanksgiving to Ramone

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Speaker 2: pulling it out and playing it again and as I said,

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Speaker 2: I hope that helps somebody out there. If you're a

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Speaker 2: single mom or a single dad.

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Speaker 3: Or.

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Speaker 2: You you hit a spell of bad luck, maybe made

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Speaker 2: some bad decisions, lost your job, hit the bottle too hard,

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Speaker 2: got addicted to drugs, whatever it is, it's got you down.

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Speaker 2: I hope that call. I mean, things turned out well

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Speaker 2: for Julianne, but don't you couldn't have told her that

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Speaker 2: at the time. And so you know what I'm gonna do, Ramone,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to play at this moment one of my favorites,

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Speaker 2: Songs of Redemption by the Reverend Donnie McClurkin from the

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Speaker 2: what was the Horror Amityville Horror. His his church is

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Speaker 2: the Amityville Baptist Church. He is the pastor and the

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Speaker 2: song leader there. He's also a very very successful gospel

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Speaker 2: singer and a dear friend. But let's uh, this this

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Speaker 2: is a this is a segment of redemption. So this

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Speaker 2: is for any of you out there that had been

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Speaker 2: knocked out, knocked down, not knocked out, knocked down to

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Speaker 2: get back up. Oh my god, that's not what I wanted.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I hate you. I genuinely, deeply, seriously

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Speaker 2: hate you. Now play what I asked you to playful between.

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Speaker 1: Weful, but we all but we care?

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Speaker 2: Oh yes for the same.

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Speaker 1: It's just the siner. But we can't stay there, can't

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Speaker 1: God say that over?

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Speaker 5: Get back.

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Speaker 2: Back?

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Speaker 3: Oh my mind?

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Speaker 1: If we get back and gass.

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Speaker 2: Against war, but we can't sty there there's a same,

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Speaker 2: a righteousness obsidy.

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Speaker 1: Oh I say long if we if we get back,

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Speaker 1: we falled up, We get back up again, just rise

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Speaker 1: back of a whim. Same s.

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Speaker 2: Very in the system to modern day. The highlight of

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Speaker 2: the year for me as we need to know, and

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Speaker 2: some of you who said it is for you as well,

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Speaker 2: is our adoption special, which of course is today. It's

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Speaker 2: very important to me on a personal level. It's very

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Speaker 2: important to me on a moral and writ large level.

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Speaker 2: There are more people who are adopted than you would

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Speaker 2: believe because you don't know that they're adopted, because you

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Speaker 2: didn't have any reason to know that. They don't wear

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Speaker 2: a shirt that says I'm adopted. But when we think

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Speaker 2: about the process of parenting and what our parents mean

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Speaker 2: to us, and what it means to be a parent,

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Speaker 2: which is so much more than just providing food and shelter.

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Speaker 2: It's discipline, it's love, its presence, it's so many things.

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Speaker 2: It's teaching. You know, our children should learn first and

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Speaker 2: foremost from parents before the schools. If you don't like

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Speaker 2: what the schools are teaching, it should never override what

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Speaker 2: you've already taught at home. The only time it's the

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Speaker 2: problem is if you're not using that opportunity to teach

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Speaker 2: at home. And that's about household finances. But that's about

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Speaker 2: our faith, that's about who we are as a people,

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Speaker 2: what our culture is. These are the things that a

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Speaker 2: parent should be instilling in a child. Well, the world's

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Speaker 2: not perfect, but God has a plan. And sometimes a

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Speaker 2: mother or a father dies early. Sometimes they abandon, sometimes

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Speaker 2: they leave. There are all sorts of things that can

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Speaker 2: occasion a child in a situation where there's not a

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Speaker 2: direct parent to parent them. And the adoption as well

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Speaker 2: as foster can be opportunities because don't we want every

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Speaker 2: child to have some sort of a chance. Don't we

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Speaker 2: want every child to have some sort of love like

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Speaker 2: we had from our parents. I know I certainly did,

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Speaker 2: so it's our adoption special and thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. In an op ed and Evy magazine, Leah

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Speaker 2: Outen shared a story, her story of experiencing an unexpected

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Speaker 2: pregnancy at the age of sixteen, and she talks about

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Speaker 2: that every year when we do this, we most years

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Speaker 2: we've had someone call up because we'll have people who

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Speaker 2: are adopted and they tell their stories, or parents who

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Speaker 2: adopted and they tell their stories. More often than not,

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Speaker 2: it's a kid who was adopted and they're so thankful

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Speaker 2: for their parents, and sometimes they've lost that parent. But

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Speaker 2: years ago, we had the first one where someone called

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Speaker 2: up and said, Hey, I know I'm the bad guy

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Speaker 2: in this story, but I had a child and I

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Speaker 2: gave that child up for adoption and it was an

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Speaker 2: act of love and it really made people think different.

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Speaker 2: And ever since then, every year we typically have a

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Speaker 2: caller who made that choice. Well, Leah Auten is one

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Speaker 2: of those. She had pressure to seek an abortion, but

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Speaker 2: she chose life for her child and she did something

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Speaker 2: that's very difficult to do. She put her child into

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Speaker 2: the adoption process and another family could enjoy that child.

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Speaker 2: And Kaylee grew up a beautiful, wonderful child and that's

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Speaker 2: what she's here to tell us about. So Leah out

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Speaker 2: and welcome to the program.

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Speaker 4: Oh thank you for having me, I'm excited to share more.

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Speaker 2: So to start with, what made you want to share

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Speaker 2: this story? It's deeply personal and not everyone will consider

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Speaker 2: you the hero I do out of it.

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Speaker 4: For me, it changed my life, and you know, I

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Speaker 4: was at sixteen on a trajectory that I wasn't proud

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Speaker 4: of and to be able to now twenty two years ago,

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Speaker 4: since that moment of seeing those positive lines on a

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Speaker 4: pregnancy test and just the healing and the journey Gods

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Speaker 4: taken me on, and I want to share that.

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Speaker 2: With other people.

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Speaker 4: As one part of why this is important to me,

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Speaker 4: but also because I was so well loved by my church,

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Speaker 4: by my family, by the agency I used, by my

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Speaker 4: daughter and her family, which is not always common, and

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Speaker 4: especially twenty two years ago, and so to be able

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Speaker 4: to help communities and parents to know how to support

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Speaker 4: a woman or a girl, whatever the age, that's walking

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Speaker 4: through this very difficult experience of unexpected pregnancy and along

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Speaker 4: with if she chooses adoption, how to do that better,

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Speaker 4: how to love her more. Just spelling some of those

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Speaker 4: myths about birth parents and that we aren't necessarily the

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Speaker 4: bad guy in the story. We've been an invisible you know, silent,

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Speaker 4: often voiceless part of this, you know, adoption try and experience.

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Speaker 4: And so it's been very helpful for more birth parents

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Speaker 4: as you shared, to speak up and to share it's

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Speaker 4: not an easy decision. It's not that we just walked

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Speaker 4: away or didn't love or didn't want our children. It

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Speaker 4: was a decision that was difficult and made out of

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Speaker 4: love to help our children to have a better start

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Speaker 4: to life. And so I fared just to help undo

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Speaker 4: some of those myths and showing just what it can

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Speaker 4: look like to not only walk through this experience, but

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Speaker 4: also to have an open adoption with an adopted parent

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Speaker 4: and how that can benefit everybody as well.

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Speaker 2: And to start, let's define what an open adoption is,

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Speaker 2: because people outside the adoption world don't know what an

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Speaker 2: open and a closed adoption is. So why don't you

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Speaker 2: start with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I know, when I found out I was pregnant,

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Speaker 4: all I thought was closed adoption of where I would

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Speaker 4: never see her or know her, know how she was doing,

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Speaker 4: or have photos of what she looks like. And that's

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Speaker 4: for a long time, that's how it was done. And

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Speaker 4: then the last few decades we're starting to see a

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Speaker 4: shift of realizing that having access to birth family, to

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Speaker 4: answer medical questions, to know more of their adoption story, roots,

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Speaker 4: their identity, medical, all the things have become important to know.

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Speaker 4: And so with open adoption there it can look lots

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Speaker 4: of different ways, but there's some kind of contact with

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Speaker 4: birth family for us that looks like including visits along

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Speaker 4: with photos and updates.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's almost more of a collaborative process. And

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Speaker 2: I realized that's not for everyone. We didn't. We have

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Speaker 2: a closed adoption in our case, and that was important

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Speaker 2: to us. And look, everybody is different, and that's okay.

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Speaker 2: You have to decide you know who and what you are.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that that was important to you and

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Speaker 2: led you to adoption, I think is the important part

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Speaker 2: of this conversation. Let's talk about where you were in

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Speaker 2: your life when you find out you are pregnant. You're

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Speaker 2: only sixteen years old. I'm assuming you're probably a sophomore

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Speaker 2: junior in high school, and how that happened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was just starting my junior year of

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Speaker 4: high school, had just turned sixteen, and I have been

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Speaker 4: dating someone through most of my sophomore year and we

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Speaker 4: had just really broken apart. You know, he was heading

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Speaker 4: in one way and I didn't like that, and we

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Speaker 4: were just not getting along, and so we had just

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Speaker 4: broken up and I found out I was pregnant a

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Speaker 4: few weeks later, and he really had said, you should

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Speaker 4: choose abortion or choose adoption, but you know, I'm not

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Speaker 4: ready to be a parent and we're not ready to

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Speaker 4: be parents, and didn't have a lot of contactors, you know,

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Speaker 4: support from him after that, and so I really was

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Speaker 4: left to decide what to do and really felt like

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Speaker 4: parenting was going to be my option because abortion did

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Speaker 4: not feel right to me. I innately knew that she

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Speaker 4: had a purpose in this world and it wasn't my

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Speaker 4: decision and my right to take that away from her.

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Speaker 4: And you know, grateful for parents who supported me in

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Speaker 4: that decision. I never felt forced to make a different decision,

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Speaker 4: and you know, they were willing to help me and

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Speaker 4: walk through with me through this process. So I thought

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Speaker 4: I was going to pair it for many months, but

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Speaker 4: as I wrestled with it, I just could not find

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Speaker 4: peace with parenting, and that led me to just being

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Speaker 4: encouraged to make an informed decision that if parenting is

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Speaker 4: not feeling right, explore ad option to make sure that

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Speaker 4: that's not what you want to do, or just learn

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Speaker 4: more about it. And as I had mentioned, I came

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Speaker 4: into this process with my own bias of close adoption

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Speaker 4: is all that there is, and that didn't feel right

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Speaker 4: for me. But once I learned that open adoption, clod

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Speaker 4: ad options and that process, talked to other birth moms

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Speaker 4: and adopted moms who had this really beautiful relations.

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Speaker 2: The first I've been destroying the black community is to

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Speaker 2: dismantle the black family. With Michael Barry's show.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we ask missus Willie Brown if Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: cares about Black families?

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Speaker 2: Leah Alton is our guest. We're talking about adoption because

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Speaker 2: of course this is our Adoption special and we're talking

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Speaker 2: to Leah Alton. She wrote an op ed and magazine

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Speaker 2: about an unexpected pregnancy at the age of sixteen. You

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Speaker 2: can imagine a sixteen year old girl, how frightened she is,

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Speaker 2: and she was pressured to get in an abortion, and

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Speaker 2: she said, no, I'm going to choose life for my daughter,

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Speaker 2: whose name is Kaylee, And she did, and she pursued

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Speaker 2: an open adoption and it has worked beautifully. Not every

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Speaker 2: open adoption or closed adoption is going to work well.

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Speaker 2: Not every situation is going to work well, but I

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Speaker 2: think by and large, this is a solution for most people.

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Speaker 2: And it does honor life because we didn't choose life.

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Speaker 2: God did. And I think it's an incredible testimony in

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Speaker 2: addition to an experience, and that's why we've asked her

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Speaker 2: to join us today. Let's talk about how y'all worked

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Speaker 2: through the open adoption. How much did you see Kaylee?

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Speaker 2: Did that change over time? How are you referred to

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Speaker 2: by her? How much did you get to attend her

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Speaker 2: events and those sorts of things.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so our agreement was two times a year,

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Speaker 4: and so her birthday falls in the summer, so that

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Speaker 4: was a great meeting point. I went to every birthday

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Speaker 4: party for eighteen nineteen years. And then we also had

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Speaker 4: a Christmas tradition where we would get together and have

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Speaker 4: lunch and exchange gifts and just have fun catching up.

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Speaker 4: So those two were always upheld through her childhood into adulthood,

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Speaker 4: and for us, we loved spending time together. So there

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Speaker 4: were other opportunities and visits that would come through through

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Speaker 4: different seasons of her life or just what worked for

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Speaker 4: our schedule. And so yes, I was invited to things

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Speaker 4: like kindergarten graduation and her high school graduation and those

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Speaker 4: kinds of things, or just hanging out to have dinner

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Speaker 4: and getting to know each other as extended family night.

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Speaker 4: Though they were just very intentional out upholsing that commitment

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Speaker 4: to me, which was really meaningful to me and to

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Speaker 4: her as as we grew, we knew when to expect

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Speaker 4: the next visit together. So she's one question that she

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Speaker 4: that her parents asked me when I was pregnant is

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Speaker 4: what do you want to be called? And I love

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Speaker 4: that they asked me that question and kind of gave

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Speaker 4: me some voice into our experience together. And you know,

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Speaker 4: because birth moms don't get a lot of say typically

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Speaker 4: about what all this can look like, and so they

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Speaker 4: were great at asking me questions and really inviting me

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Speaker 4: into you know, creating this this this relationship together. And

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Speaker 4: so they they offered different suggestions or ideas, and nothing

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Speaker 4: really felt right with me. So I decided just to

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Speaker 4: be miss Leah, which is what they called any you

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Speaker 4: know adult that I and they called me birth mom

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Speaker 4: as well, so she knew me as her birth mom

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Speaker 4: miss Leah. And then now that she's older and we've

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Speaker 4: she and I have more directly created a relationship in

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Speaker 4: her teen years. She now calls me mother Goose, which

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Speaker 4: is what my children did. My parents call me as

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Speaker 4: a joke because I have five of them and they

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Speaker 4: follow me around and I read a lot. So it's

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Speaker 4: fun that she's kind of felt comfortable to add another

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Speaker 4: name to me. And her mom is her mom, but

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Speaker 4: I have another, my own little name now that she's

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Speaker 4: comfortable with that.

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Speaker 2: So how she first called you mother goose? Did she ask?

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Speaker 2: She did? She just say it? Tell me about that moment.

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Speaker 4: So my children here, as I said, they they call

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Speaker 4: me mother Goose. And so I think as she has

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Speaker 4: come to visit, she's she's come to visit us and

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Speaker 4: kind of immersed herself into, you know, her siblings here,

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Speaker 4: and so I think picking that up just being around

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Speaker 4: because sometimes we would have longer visits in the summer

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Speaker 4: for a weekend or a week and so it was

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Speaker 4: a much more immersive experience where it felt more comfortable

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Speaker 4: to include something that was more personal like that. So

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Speaker 4: it's I don't think she asked, It was just kind

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Speaker 4: of started to become part of the normal conversation as

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Speaker 4: we grew closer together. More naturally.

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Speaker 2: And how often did you see her? Have you seen

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Speaker 2: her over the years as have more or less now

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Speaker 2: and how has that changed. What's the nature of that interaction.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's as flows through different seasons. And

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Speaker 4: the first three years we had a lot of visits

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Speaker 4: as we were building this foundation of our relationship together.

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Speaker 4: So the first three years we had visits probably every

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Speaker 4: other month. I was sixteen with a frustriver's license, and

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Speaker 4: so I loved to be able to come visit them,

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Speaker 4: and they invited me, you know, to come spend time

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Speaker 4: with them and have dinner, and those those dinner table

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Speaker 4: moments really shaped how our relationship was building then and

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Speaker 4: that looks like now. The elementary years, it was we

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Speaker 4: were all busier, you know, her with school, me with

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Speaker 4: growing my family, married and all those kinds of things.

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Speaker 4: So that was really just the two times of year

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Speaker 4: that we knew to expect for Birthday and Christmas. And

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Speaker 4: then her teen years is when she started to ask more.

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Speaker 4: She was the third, you know voice and became the

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Speaker 4: more important voice in our adoption relationship. And she has

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Speaker 4: always known who I am and her story and wanted

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Speaker 4: to know more as she was heading into those identity

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Speaker 4: forming years and really the wheels turning about adoption and

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Speaker 4: her turning sixteen and really understanding, wow, this is what

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Speaker 4: you this is the age you were when you had me,

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Speaker 4: and I can understand more now about why you would

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Speaker 4: choose adoption, and you know, just having more opportunity to

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Speaker 4: grow and to learn from one another. And so her

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Speaker 4: teen years, she started to ask for about quarterly and

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Speaker 4: so that's where we've probably from sixteen up to now,

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Speaker 4: with her being twenty one, we aim for probably one

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Speaker 4: per season at least.

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Speaker 2: That's fascinating. What led you to write the outbed in

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Speaker 2: EV magazine.

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Speaker 4: I think again, always just felt like I needed to

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Speaker 4: share the story because all that God has done in

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Speaker 4: my life helping other women to know that there is

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Speaker 4: support out there, whether they choose adoption or whether they

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Speaker 4: choose the parent, that you know, resources like her plan

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Speaker 4: exist and can be so helpful to find community and

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Speaker 4: resources and support for whatever the path is, because there's

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Speaker 4: no easy path. All of it is hard, and it's

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Speaker 4: just choosing your heart and knowing to go to and

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Speaker 4: where to go to to define that support. And I

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Speaker 4: just want women to know that there is hope that

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Speaker 4: you know there is a path forward beyond this, this

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Speaker 4: moment that can feel you know, a crisis or devastating

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Speaker 4: or you know the world's upside down, and that there's

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Speaker 4: there's hope. Yeah, that it's in the seeking the Lord

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Speaker 4: and for that guidance and for that peace and whatever

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Speaker 4: that looks like.

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Speaker 2: Hold with me for just a moment. Leah Outen is

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Speaker 2: our guest. The op ed she wrote in Evy magazine

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Speaker 2: caught our attention a few months back, and it was

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Speaker 2: about It was about her decision at sixteen with an

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Speaker 2: I don't want to call it unwanted. I want to

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Speaker 2: call it unexpected, which I think is the term she used.

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Speaker 2: As National Adoption Month in November and our Adoption special

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Speaker 2: roles on please celebrate those mothers who make the decision

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Speaker 2: of life. It's not an easy thing to do. It's

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Speaker 2: not an easy thing to do, but I think she

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Speaker 2: proves it's a rewarding and whole godly thing to do.

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Speaker 2: More with you. I will die for the country. I

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Speaker 2: will die for disclas to Michael Barry Joe, He's the

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Speaker 2: big honor to be living in the United States. Leah

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Speaker 2: Altin as our guest. She wrote an op ed in

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Speaker 2: Evie magazine about having an unexpected pregnancy at the age

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Speaker 2: of sixteen and she did not intend to supplant God's

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Speaker 2: will that child was there, and under pressure to seek

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Speaker 2: an abortion, she chose life for her daughter, Kaylee and

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Speaker 2: an open adoption, and she has had a rewarding relationship

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Speaker 2: with her daughter, who's adopted by another family. And her

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Speaker 2: daughter is now twenty one years old, and we're talking

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Speaker 2: about how she's navigated this and why it's important to

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Speaker 2: her to share with other people. And I love that.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely love that. I read that you have become

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Speaker 2: a prolific advocate, public speaker, and writer on the joys

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Speaker 2: of open adoption. How did you get involved doing that?

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Speaker 2: And I'm curious what kind of questions people ask about this?

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Speaker 4: So I heard started speaking just a few months after

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Speaker 4: she was born because my agency wanted to share with

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Speaker 4: local nurses at the hospital of you know, how to

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Speaker 4: love a birth parent, will, who's choosing adoption in the

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Speaker 4: hospital setting, and the most vulnerable parts of diplacement process.

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Speaker 4: And so it's those opportunities have just come up through

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Speaker 4: the years and just been asked to write about it

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Speaker 4: and to share about it. I also blogged and wrote

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Speaker 4: through my pregnancy and the early years, and that's continued

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Speaker 4: to grow to the books I write, and writing with

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Speaker 4: such a healing part of my journey to process my

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Speaker 4: emotions and capture those moments that I got to share

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Speaker 4: with her through the years, and to connect with other

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Speaker 4: birth moms and adoptees and adoptive parents, because there's everybody's

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Speaker 4: coming into this with curiosity, whether they have a personal

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Speaker 4: experience with adoption or they're outside the experience and it's

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Speaker 4: something that's completely new, and so I think writing and

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Speaker 4: speaking has just been such a connecting experience to help

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Speaker 4: other people to know you're not alone in this, and

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Speaker 4: here's what's worked in our journey and what's been helpful

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Speaker 4: in our journey and my personal journey too. So common

439
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 4: questions you've asked a lot of them of what does

440
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 4: this look like, how often do you visit? What does

441
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: she call you? But I think another one is, you know,

442
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 4: navigating boundaries and conflict in open adoption, because it's not

443
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 4: always easy. It's an adoption relationship is just like any

444
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 4: other relationship that takes work and effort. And you know,

445
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: through the years, her parents and I have worked through

446
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 4: to navigate, you know, wanting to honor each other. They

447
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 4: are her parents, and I respect that, and they also

448
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 4: respect that I'm her first mom, and we both come

449
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: together knowing that there's things that we can provide and

450
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: speak to into her life that the other can't, and

451
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 4: within that there can still be conversations that we've had

452
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 4: to have, especially as I've shared my story more publicly

453
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 4: and making sure that I'm sharing things that are still

454
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 4: respectful of their privacy, and especially as she was under

455
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: eighteen navigating what's okay to share, what photos are okay

456
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 4: to share, and if there was ever real line that

457
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 4: was crossed, whatever that was that they gently came to

458
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: me and said, hey, you know, we're noticing this. Can

459
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 4: we do this differently next time? And they modeled healthy

460
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: communication for me and what that can look like. And

461
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 4: I think since open adoption can be very intimidating or

462
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 4: scary when you are just beginning the process of adopting,

463
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 4: that there's still a lot of fears in this and

464
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 4: being able to understand that boundaries are a good thing

465
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 4: and that open adoption is not co parenting. It's you know,

466
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 4: you're still the parents, but you have an open heart

467
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 4: and a bridge to those connections, to those answers that

468
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: are part of their life too, and being able to

469
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: advocate and work through that together.

470
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: Tell me about your own children, your children that you

471
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: parent as you say, you said you have five, I

472
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: do I have five?

473
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: Wow?

474
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 2: All right, go ahead.

475
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

476
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 4: So I had another unexpected pregnancy in my college years

477
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 4: and had thankfully a wonderful man by my side at

478
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 4: that point, and we got married at nineteen twenty and

479
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: so that daughter is now eighteen, and then our youngest

480
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 4: is eight.

481
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: This is.

482
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: This is a story of bounty.

483
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: You know, so many women have so much trouble getting pregnant,

484
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 5: and you just keep having babies. And you know what,

485
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 5: God bless you for loving these babies, no matter what

486
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: the relationship is, no matter whether they were planned or not.

487
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 5: You know, I have so many friends that they're seemingly

488
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 5: the youngest.

489
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: I don't know why this has happened with my generation,

490
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: but they're the youngest, and they have you know, their

491
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: next in the order is you know, ten fifteen years

492
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: ahead of them, and they call themselves oopsie babies. And

493
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: yet they're spoiled rotten because by that time the parents

494
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 2: have you know, raised all these other kids, and then

495
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: here comes the kid that they didn't expect and they

496
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: didn't think mom could get pregnant anymore, but she did.

497
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 4: Yep, we have definitely been wasn't our plan to have five,

498
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 4: but we're definitely still very fortunate for these children that

499
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 4: God's given us. And having worked I work with adopted

500
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 4: parents every day and they struggle with fertility, and so

501
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 4: I especially realized the humbling gift that it is that

502
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 4: as was able to.

503
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: I think that's absolutely right. And I think that you

504
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: have been as most true faithful Christians are. You have

505
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 2: been open to God's direction in your life that may

506
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: not have seemed like the perfect journey or the perfect film,

507
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: but somehow, with enough love and care and hard work

508
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: and you know, plenty of tears, and you get there.

509
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: And I see these journeys you know somewhere down the road,

510
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: and you do. You just get there. You figure out

511
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: how to make it work, and it's not always easy,

512
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: but at the end of it all, you're delighted that

513
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: you did.

514
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: Leah.

515
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: Before we let you go, Are there any other resources

516
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: you would recommend for folks who are going through some

517
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: aspect of all of this.

518
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 4: One would be that I have a book if you're

519
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 4: curious about more of the details of what it, the

520
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: emotions of the experiences and through the hospital experience, and

521
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: how her parents and my support system imported being loved

522
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: me through the years, and also just what it looks

523
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 4: like up until she was eighteen. I also have a

524
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 4: nonprofit called the Ampersan Initiatives, and that is our post

525
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 4: placement resource to help not just birth parents, but also

526
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 4: adoptive parents and adoptees and kinship care foster care to

527
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: have retreats that are in a really safe, beautiful environment

528
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: and having fun, because you know, cultivating community and healing

529
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 4: could be a lot of heavy, you know, peers and

530
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 4: hard work, but it also you know, there's a lot

531
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 4: of healing that comes with joy, laughter, and you know,

532
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 4: being in beautiful places. So we have that as well,

533
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 4: and we have educational topics online that will help with

534
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 4: adoptive parents or just anybody involved that wants to learn

535
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 4: more about from a birth mom and because other people

536
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 4: in the in the adoption community and then her plan

537
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 4: of course is a great resource that someone is struggling

538
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 4: with an unexpected pregnancy and needs resources that they can

539
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 4: guide you national wide to find those those support networks

540
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: near you.

541
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: God bless you. Leah Outman. Thank you for sharing your story.

542
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: You just never know who will hear it. You'll make

543
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: a difference for them. I appreciate your time than thank

544
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: you so nice, nice lot. Thank you and good night