1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Hey, happy Saturday before Halloween. Just like a sub holiday 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, So we thought we would take the 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: opportunity to get one more creepy episode into your podcast 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: speed this October. So this one is actually the first 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: October episode that Holly and I ever did as hosts 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: on the show, and it is about the New England 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: vampire panic. And this is a story that's gotten a 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: lot of attention lately. It played a part in the 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: first ever episode of the podcast Lore and their new 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: TV adaptation, so it's definitely a favorite. It's a really 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: fun series of things to dig into. Welcome to stuff 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: you missed in history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. And we are officially into 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: a little bit the Halloween programming. We're getting there. I 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: mean I start in July in my personal life, but 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: I held out till now for the pot just like 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: tenter Hooks. Barely expect some scary things, scary people coming 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: up over the next month or so. I just think 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: they're fascinating, uh, because Halloween is my favorite holiday. Um. 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about an American phenomenon 21 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: that happened for about a hundred years it was going 22 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: on in New England where there were these bizarre vampire panics. 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: And while we live in an age and vampires are 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: insanely popular as entertainment, uh, and they often become romantic 25 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: interests for better or for worse, there have certainly been 26 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: times in human history when fear of real and for true, 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: actual vampiresm caused these outright panics and for people to 28 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: really enact some very bizarre rituals to try to quell 29 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: this menace that they perceive eaved around them. Every time 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: we every time there's a news story that floats by 31 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: about somebody discovering a quote vampire grave in some place, 32 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: we had all these requests from people talk about that. Yeah, 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: and there have been a lot and we'll talk a 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: little bit about one researcher who does a lot of 35 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: work specifically in that field. Uh. The word vampire, of course, 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: originated in Slavac Europe in the tenth century, and there 37 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: have been a number of vampire panics in Europe as 38 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: well throughout history from you know, the tenth century right 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: up until roughly the end of the eighteenth century. But 40 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: at that point it kind of started to fizzle out, 41 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: like these instances where people became convinced on mass that 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: there was a vampire in their midst But as Europeans 43 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: were moving to North America, a lot of their superstitions 44 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: came along for the ride. And it's in New England 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: that we're focusing this lens today. Uh. And it's actually 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: later in the historical record than people might anticipate, because 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: it does sound, you know, superstition on this level sounds 48 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: a little wacky, in a little old fashioned, but it's 49 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: a lot more modern than you might think. This was 50 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: happening way more recently than I think most people would suspect. Uh. 51 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: And So first we're going to cover a couple of 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: specific instances of vampire panic that happened in New England, 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: and then we'll discuss some of the causes and circumstances 54 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: around this phenomenon that kept repeating. And we're first going 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: to start in Jewitt City, Connecticut. So in the late 56 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: eighteen forties through the mid eighteen fifties in Jewitt City 57 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: there's a vampire panic. So the Ray family of Jewett 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: City experienced this series of tragedies when which healthy members 59 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: of the family, previously healthy members of the family just 60 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: wasted away, and most of the panic really was in 61 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: the eighteen fifties, as this family had begun to lose 62 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: more and more members, So it wasn't like a panic 63 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: that lasted ten years um, but the events leading up 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 1: to it really lasted that long. So first the Ray 65 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: family son Lemuel died, and then Henry, who was the 66 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: father of the family, passed away a couple of years 67 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: after that, so this was late eighteen forties into early 68 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties. And then Elisha was next uh and then 69 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: the eldest son of the family, Henry Nelson, and will 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: refer to him by both names to keep him separate 71 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: from the father. Henry also fell sick. So there's a 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: lot of speculation going on about what was causing all 73 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: of these deaths for this one family, and believing that 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: the dead were somehow feeding on the living. Two of 75 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: the Race sons were exhumed on June four. Their bodies 76 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: were burned, and this desperate attempt to try to end 77 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: the family's suffering. And we don't really know why the 78 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: Ray family attributed the later deaths to the buried relatives, 79 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: but it appears that they thought that Lemuel and Elisha 80 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: were somehow coming back, possibly as spirits, which was part 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: of the vampire lure at the time, rather than the 82 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: modern vampiric cons up of the dead actually rising from 83 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: the grave and biting people on the neck, and that 84 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: they were draining Henry Nelson, the eldest son. It's unclear 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: also why their father, Henry was not a suspect in 86 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: all of this. There was never any indication that his 87 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: grave had been intended to be disturbed, just the two sons. 88 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: We also don't know when Henry Nelson died, but it 89 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: appears that the tuberculosis outbreak, which was really the culprit, 90 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: ended there. So tuberculosis is an infectious disease, as we 91 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: know now, was not known app time, and it's spread 92 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: through bacteria, So the burning of their bodies might actually 93 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: have helped contain the outbreak. Uh So this sort of 94 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: solidified this incorrect notion that what they had done had 95 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: actually stopped the vampires. Yes, so we know now that 96 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: what was going on was that the family had what 97 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: was called at the time consumption. And even so, and 98 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: we'll talk about it, it comes up a little bit 99 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: later that sometimes these cases of consumption were actually identified. 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: They were diagnosed, but there was an underlying fear about 101 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: what was causing the illness, right, and so because uh, 102 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: tuberculosis wasn't identified until several decades later, even though consumption 103 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: was identified, it was not known that it was bacterial 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: and that it was contagious. Didn't quite have the germ 105 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: theory of disease yet, that was not quite there yet, 106 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: barely getting started. And in fact, like the germ theory 107 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: didn't really spread like it was just in its infancy 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: at this point. It wasn't until the nineteen twenties that 109 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: that people really had the idea in their heads that 110 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: germs caused disease. And even so in more remote areas, 111 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: it was entirely possible that that that word would not 112 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: have reached people yet absolutely. Uh. And so that's the 113 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: Jewitt City vampire case. And you'll sometimes hear them referred to, 114 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: there's their tours through own, etcetera. And you'll hear in 115 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: um circles of people that like to talk about these 116 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: types of things, uh, the Jewish City vampires, even though 117 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: they were not actually vampires. Uh. And the next time 118 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about so remember that one was 119 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties when that all happened. This one 120 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: is a bit later, and it's quite famous. It's the 121 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: Mercy Brown case. Uh, and so Mercy Lena Brown and 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: she went by Lena was a resident of Exeter, Rhode Island, 123 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: and she died there in eighteen ninety two, so much 124 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: later in the historical record. Right when she died, the 125 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: town was really struggling. The Civil War had claimed a 126 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: lot of his popular its population, and that was really 127 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: the case everywhere, like the Civil War could just eliminate 128 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: huge numbers of people from a town's population. The railroad 129 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: had also made it really easy for people to leave 130 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: the area to try to find better farmland. Yeah, as 131 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: a priest side note, Exeter was a farm community, but 132 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: it's widely Reckonnied said. The soil there is not great 133 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: for farming. That's the case in many parts. It's very rocky. 134 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, we kind of talked about a similar thing 135 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: in our Brook Farm episode that these people set up 136 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: a farm in a place that doesn't have a good soil. Right. 137 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, Exeter was it was a farming community that 138 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: got barely got by before all of these deaths and 139 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: and people wanting to leave started to happen, and then 140 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: it really got rough well, and once the railroad made 141 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: it much easier to move a farther distance away, there 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: wasn't a huge draw for people to stay there, continuing 143 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: to struggle to just with another nature right. From eighteen 144 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: twenty until the time of Lena's death, the population had 145 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: gone from people to nine hundred sixty one. So yeah, 146 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: over of course of about seventy years, they lost well 147 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: over half of their population. Now, Lena's mother had died 148 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: ten years earlier in two and Lena's twenty year old 149 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: sister had died the year after their mother, So about 150 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: a decade before Lena became sick, two other women in 151 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: her family had died, and Lena's brother had become sick 152 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: as well, but he left Exeter. He moved to Colorado 153 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: Springs in the hopes that a climate change would cure him. 154 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: While Lena was dying, her brother, Edwin, came back. He 155 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: had had some health improvements for a little while while 156 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: he was gone, but eventually he got sick again. So 157 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: the story goes that the neighbors, thinking that some sort 158 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: of evil, supernatural happening had reversed Edwin's remission when he 159 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: came home. Uh they approached Lena's father, whose named George Brown, 160 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: and they suggested that an exhimation of the family members 161 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: who had already died and at this point Lena had passed, 162 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: might lead to his son's recovery. So they thought we 163 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: might be able to save Edwin if we dig up 164 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: the dead ladies. Right, So their goal was to check 165 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: the hearts of the deceased to see if there was 166 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: fresh blood in m and that would be an indicator 167 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: that the corpse was feeding on the living people. And 168 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: George reluctantly agreed to do this. So on March seventeenth, 169 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: his wife and his two daughters were unearthed, and I 170 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: feel like I should mention George did not believe in 171 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: this nonsense, and he refused to be present at the exhamation. 172 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: He was really most records indicate he was just trying 173 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: to placate his neighbors because they were relentless um and Lena, 174 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: of course, had only been dead for about two months 175 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: at this time. She died in January, and because it 176 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: was winter, she had not decomposed all that much, while 177 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: her mother and sister, again having died almost a decade prior, 178 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: were just skeletal at that point, they were just bones. Uh. 179 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: There was actually a correspondent for the Providence Journal on 180 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: hand for this disinterment, and he reported that quote, the 181 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: body was in a fairly well preserved state. He's referring 182 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: to Lena. At this point, the heart and liver were removed, 183 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: and in cutting open the heart, clotted and decomposed blood 184 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: was found. The town doctor was also in attendance for this, 185 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: as sometimes did happen during these exhumations, and he really 186 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: was also trying to be the voice of reason, and 187 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: he was like, no, she's got tuberculosis. She has a 188 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: long disease. She died of this. She's this is not 189 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: a vampire. Um. But of course that kind of fell 190 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: on deaf ears, right, Mercy. Lena Brown's liver and heart 191 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: were burned. They're on a site, and the ashes were 192 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: fed to her brother and attempt to cure him of tuberculitis. 193 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: But that of course did not work. No, he died 194 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: like two months later. And because this particular vampire panic 195 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: happened in the late eighteen hundreds and there was a 196 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: reporter on hand to witness it, the story really spread. 197 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: It actually ended up being picked up by the American 198 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: Anthropologist Journal UH when a gentleman that wrote for them 199 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: went to study it after he had read that initial account, 200 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: and it ended up being talked about far and wide, 201 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: and some historians actually believed that it was the Mercy 202 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: Brown story that inspired bram Stoker's Dracula, which published in 203 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: although there is some debate over it UM. Some will 204 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: say that the news that had spread out that led 205 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: to specifics that seemed to parallel bram stoker story, not 206 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: all of those specifics had really become public knowledge by 207 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: the time he would have been working on it, so 208 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: it's a it's an unknown, although there are some interesting 209 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: parallels between the two UH. And the general reception of 210 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: this story in the press and in public opinion was 211 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: that really this was all just because of ignorance of 212 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: small communities UH, and it was even characterized by some 213 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: as a hoax. By the time the man who wrote 214 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 1: for the American Anthropologist Journal showed up, they thought that 215 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: people were kind of pulling his legs UH, and the 216 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: Boston Globe actually even suggested that um inbreeding and intermarrying 217 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: in Exeter had resulted in this community that was not 218 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: so intellectual on that they were kind of prone to 219 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: buy into these crazy superstitions, right. Uh so the world 220 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: at large thought a lot of this was crazy even 221 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: earlier than this story, but uh, you know, these small 222 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: communities would get the grip of the panic. As a 223 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: side note, there's an episode of The Memory Palace that's 224 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: about this specific vampire panic. You all would like to listen, 225 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: and it's called Mary, Mary and Mercy. Mercy Brown's story 226 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: is really quite famous in the Vampire lower and New 227 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: England Law on its own outside of um, you know, 228 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: sort of paranormal enthusiasm because it is such so late 229 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: in the game that it is a little startling, I 230 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: think for people to move on to another story. A 231 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: group of children in Griswold, Connecticut stumbled onto a previously 232 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: unknown burial ground and there had actually been a serial 233 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: killer in the area just prior to this, and because 234 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: of that, police investigation was started and the site that 235 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: the children had found was excavated because initially they had 236 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: just found like some bones, and they weren't police and 237 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: the authorities were not sure if they had found a 238 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: burial site that this serial killer had been using. But 239 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: it turned out that what they had actually unearthed was 240 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: an interesting part of this area's history and New England, 241 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: for anyone who does not know, is actually filled with 242 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: unmarked burial plots left over from the colonial area era, 243 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: mostly when families would establish these burial spaces, but they 244 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: didn't always keep records of the interments and they had 245 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: eventually grown over with age, you know, as as small 246 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: townships had fallen away and died off and been replaced 247 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: by bigger cities and people moved away. These burial plots 248 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: weren't always uh maintained visibly right, So not quite as 249 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: far back in history as the many, many, many bodies 250 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: that are now under car parks. They were constantly hearing 251 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: about from the UK, but kind of similar in how 252 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: people buried their loved ones and then moved on for 253 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: whatever reason announced something else got there. Eventually, authorities uncovered 254 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: twenty nine graves, and most of these were just austere 255 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: graves where people had been buried in very simple wooden boxes. 256 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: There were fifteen children, six adult males, and eight adult females. 257 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: But there were also two stoned crips that the state's 258 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: archaeology team, which was led by Nick Bellantoni, were particularly 259 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: interested in, and one of these crips, which was labeled 260 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: Burial number four. When they were doing the excavation revealed 261 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: a much different in tumbment than those that the team 262 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: had uncovered up to that point, and instead of finding 263 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: a body laid out simply in a wooden box with 264 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: the arms either crossed over the chest or at the side, 265 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: this had a coffin which was painted red and it 266 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: had the initials j B in the number fifty five 267 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: laid out on the lid in brass tacks. And while 268 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: the feet of the deceased were exactly where you would 269 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: expect to find them in the coffin, the rest of 270 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: the body had been completely rearranged into a layout that 271 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: was similar to a Jolly Roger, but with the skull 272 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: turned face down into the rib cage and then the 273 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: leg and arm bones forming the cross underneath that. So 274 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: analysis indicated that the beheading and the fracturing of the 275 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: ribs and the dismemberment of the body had all happened 276 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: several years after this JB had died. Paleopathological evidence also 277 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: revealed that JB had probably died of consumption, and two 278 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: other sets of remains near JB, which were labeled IB. 279 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: The number forty six, and n B with the number thirteen, 280 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: which we believe to be age indicators, had also died 281 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: of tuberculosis. Ib A was a woman and n B 282 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: was a child. Uh, And now we're going to get 283 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: into kind of the backstory and what happened as a 284 00:16:52,400 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: result of that find. So to return to our backstory 285 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: for this this family. Michael bell, a Rhode Island folklorist 286 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: and researcher and author of the book Food for the 287 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: Dead on the Trail of New England's Vampires, has studied 288 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: this New England vampire phenomenon for more than thirty years, 289 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: and in that time he's documented six dozen incidents of exhumations, 290 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: and he believes really strongly that there were many many 291 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: others that just haven't been discovered yet. Yes, so when 292 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: Tracy mentioned earlier that you sometimes read about uncovering a 293 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: random grave, that he thinks that they're probably way more 294 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: cemeteries that we haven't even stumbled upon yet. Right. The 295 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: earliest exhamation that he's recorded is from the late seventeen hundreds, 296 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: and the furthest away from New England that he's recorded 297 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: is happened in Minnesota. For a context, the Salem witch 298 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: hunts were primarily slotted in the sixteen nineties, so this 299 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: was sometime after that. Yes, so even the earliest incident 300 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: of this vampire panic was roughly a hundred years later 301 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: than the witch hunts had kind of happened and and 302 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: died off. So you know, I don't know, socially, it 303 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: filled a gap of a need for superstitious paranormal situation. 304 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: But scare that Bell has studied actually involved a letter 305 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: from a councilman which was printed in the Connecticut korn 306 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: And Weekly Intelligencer, and this letter actually warned the editor 307 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: and readers of the paper about a quack doctor who 308 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: was suggesting exhimation and burning of the dead to stop consumption, 309 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: which was believed to be done by these dead bodies, 310 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: like the consumption had been initiated by them. Most of 311 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: the research into this practice of exhuming bodies during the 312 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: vampire scare is based on handwritten records, and many grave 313 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: sites are similar to the ones in the Griswold discovery 314 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: that we just talked about, and they're unmarked and sort 315 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: of lost in time. And the genesis of the vampire 316 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: fear that was happening in New England in this period 317 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: really has yet to be pinpointed, but as with any 318 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: folkloric myth, it's likely that there's no single starting point. 319 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: Rather a small seed of a legend fed a lurking 320 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: and present fear of the unexplained because even though they 321 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: could diagnose consumption, they didn't know what caused it, uh 322 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: And in turn that would all add to the mythology 323 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: and you know, build the legend, and that would feed 324 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: more fear and so on the way these things happen. 325 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: And certainly a doctor suggesting the idea like that we 326 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: should burn these bodies because they're feeding off the living, 327 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: would allow that superstition to gain a little bit of ground. 328 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: So that incident, you know, probably added a significant ground 329 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: swell to what was already likely being talked about in communities. Right. 330 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: And on top of that, if you're not actually familiar 331 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: with medicine or anatomy or the way bodies decompose, it's 332 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: easy to misinterpret normal decomposation. Through this lens of cognitive 333 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: bias and a lack of medical knowledge, it's easy to 334 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: misinterpret that as some kind supernatural thing going on. So 335 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: bloated corpses were often described as looking like they had 336 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: just eaten, for example, or blood coming from the mouth 337 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: was held up as proof that this dead body had 338 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: been feeding on a living Yeah. When there are accounts 339 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: of these exhamations and people have kept journals are written 340 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: about them, they do they reference. It was clear this 341 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: must have been happening because the body was bloated, it 342 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: had just eaten, and the hair had continued to grow. 343 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: They didn't know that that happened yet as part of decomposition. 344 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: And well, it's the it's that your skin received. It 345 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: looks like your hair and your nails are growing, but 346 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: that's not what's happening. Yeah, So they were attributing this 347 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: to this dead body somehow getting you know, nutrition from 348 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: from uh. These people that were dying of consumption and 349 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: the Jewitt City panic and similar incidents had all really 350 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: taken place in rural, fairly isolated areas. They were often 351 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: small farming communities. There are records such as journal entries 352 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: and even newspaper write ups from cities and more metropolitan 353 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: areas that really suggests that when outsiders like would travel 354 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: through these small towns or small settlements, they really kind 355 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: of chalk this up as like crazy superstition, and that 356 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: these were just really overzealous, uneducated farm folk who didn't 357 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: know any better than to blame common things on the supernatural. Yeah. 358 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: And what's interesting is that in many instances, the consumption 359 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: that was actually killing people had really been diagnosed by 360 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: a doctor, but because people didn't really know what was 361 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: causing consumption, it was still believed that it was somehow 362 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: the dead that we're doing it. Yeah. I think a 363 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: lot of people tend to assume, uh, And it's often 364 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: not clear when you're reading some of these articles and 365 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: accounts of what happened. They think that people didn't know 366 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: that people were dying of a disease. They just sort 367 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: of thought suddenly people were dying, and they didn't know 368 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: what caused it. And and while they didn't know the 369 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: cause of consumption and that it was bacterial, there were doctors, 370 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: this person has consumption, they are going to die. Uh, 371 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: So there is still this uh. You know, there was 372 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: a certain amount of knowledge, but it wasn't enough. And 373 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's worth considering the fact that in the 374 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: face of a disease that was incurable at the time, 375 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: it's understandable that there was likely a strong desire to 376 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: do something anything to try to remedy the situation, even 377 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: if it was the bizarre digging up bodies and burning 378 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: of corpses or parts of corpses and sometimes consuming them, 379 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: and it all, it all is kind of wacky and bizarre. 380 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: It seems extreme. But if you just have you can't 381 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: do anything, but you feel a need to do something 382 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: that seemed like their avenue. And because there were people who, 383 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, by some combination of luck in their their constitution, 384 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: their immune system did not die, there was a lot 385 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: of trying to figure out, Okay, why did that person 386 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: right that that clearly there must be something we can 387 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: do because that person survive. And this is something that 388 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, human beings continue to do today. People will 389 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: try all kinds of stuff when you know, told that 390 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: they have something that's not treatable by conventional you know, 391 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: western medicine. Yeah. Well, and it's worth noting that Mercy 392 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: Brown's father who gave into this request to exume his 393 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: family's remains, though he was not there and did think 394 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: it was whoie, he never got consumption even though three 395 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: members of his family, four members of his family died 396 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: of it. Uh and some people said it was because 397 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: he didn't believe that he somehow had you know, magically 398 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: created this talisman for himself of not acknowledging the spirits 399 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: and so they couldn't get him. And in some ways, 400 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: even though scientifically you would say this, you know, supports 401 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: the idea that this wasn't really a functioning, working approach 402 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: to dealing with this disease, some people were able to 403 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: spin his good health as a way to somehow prove 404 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: that in fact, no, no, the spiritual angle is correct. 405 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: As somehow want to do an episode on the history 406 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: of magical thinking. Yeah, but I think it would require 407 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: all of my research for all time forever, and then 408 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: the episode would be like nine minute, million hours long. Well, 409 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: it's and it's hard to find your way into, like 410 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: where you latch in to start something like that, because 411 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: it is that's a long and storied tradition. Yes. So, 412 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: while there were uh many, many uniting factors, and most 413 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: communities that had one of these vampire exhumations take place, 414 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: they're all rural, they're all battling disease outbreaks, the manner 415 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: in which the ritual work was done was not consistent 416 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: among all of these events. Yeah, some instances of vampire 417 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: exhamation involved a great deal of ritual. One practice documented 418 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: in some cases in Vermont, Connecticut, and Rhode Island involved 419 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: burning the dead person's heart, often mixed with herbs, and 420 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: inhaling the smoke as a cure for a disease. There's 421 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: also the eating the ashes ritual that was used in 422 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: the Mercy Brown exhumation. But there were other communities that 423 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: took a really simple approach. They would uh, merely open 424 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: the grave, flip the body face down, and then rebury it. Yeah, 425 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: the thinking being, now when this tries to get out, 426 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: it will just be going deeper into their correct like 427 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: it won't it won't understand its orientation. People think ghosts 428 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: are dogs smart enough to feed off the living, not 429 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: smart enough to roll over. So Vermont's exhumations and burning 430 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: rituals were much more of a public spectacle than anywhere else, 431 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: and often they took place in the town square because 432 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: it is probably because a lot of townships in the 433 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: area at the time had their cemeteries close to the 434 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: center of town rather than weigh out on the outskirts 435 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: as was customary and other places. So this minute would 436 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: be tricky to carry out. The whole business of addressing 437 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: this vampire problem in any sort of secret, low key way. 438 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: So instead it just became this extremely public practice. Yeah, 439 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: and most other communities you read about, it's kind of 440 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: like a group of strong wild men kind of get 441 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: together in the dead of night and they're going to 442 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: go do this gruesome thing to protect a town or 443 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: protect a family, and they kind of kept it on 444 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: the d l really, but in Vermont they were kind 445 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: of like party of the town square, We're gonna burn 446 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: some vampires because you know, they can't really hide it 447 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: when it's right there. Yeah, hard to dig up a 448 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: grave and plain site and still keep it quiet. And 449 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: of course there is um the Griswold case where the 450 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: body was exhumed and the bones were rearranged in an 451 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: effort to keep the dead from rising up to claim 452 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: the victims. And so this is a little different than 453 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: most of them more common approaches. Um uh. Two researchers, 454 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: including Nicholas Belentoni and paul As sled Zick, which I 455 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: hope I pronounced correctly, wrote an article on the American 456 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: Journal of Physical Anthropology about it, and they suggested the 457 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: idea that since this JB character was exhumed approximately five 458 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: years after his death. Decomposition would have been so advanced 459 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: that he probably wasn't any more than bones to work with, 460 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: and since they could not find a blood engorged heart 461 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: or other flesh to burn, the exhumers likely improvised this 462 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: rearrangement into the skull and crossbones style because there have 463 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: not been a lot of those found. That might be 464 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: the only one in fact, so, uh, we have all 465 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: of this knowledge of these things happening, but we don't 466 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: have a lot of evidence outside from personal accounts and 467 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: written word. And there have been instances where there are 468 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: suspected graves where people think if we uh could dig 469 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: up this old plot we found, we might find some 470 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: more evidence. But some communities are like, please don't do that. Um. 471 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: There are not always into the idea of just digging 472 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: up bodies in the interest of finding vampire lower. Not 473 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: everyone is as excited about exhumation as many stuff he 474 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: miss the hisstory class lists are so so far the Griswold, 475 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: Connecticut JB is the only instance where we actually have 476 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: a visual confirmation of this practice of exuming the dead 477 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: to deal with a vampire threat. Yeah, we have lots 478 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: of historical accounts and journals and articles and things, but 479 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: not so many in the United States actual graves. Yeah, 480 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: well of messed up bones and bodies. Yeah, And so 481 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, the Mercy Brown incident was kind of considered 482 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: the book end by many to this bizarre panic and 483 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: outbreak because after that, as we said, it got publicized, 484 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: it got talked about. I mean, news of it traveled 485 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: to London and to Europe, and uh, it seems like 486 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: people suddenly kind of turned the mirror on this practice 487 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: and went oh yeah. And plus they were moving out 488 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: of these smaller communities to bigger places to find their fortunes, 489 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: and that's sort of group think superstition that can sometimes happen. 490 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: This seemed to dissipate around then. So yeah, well, in 491 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: the the state of medical knowledge was just so much 492 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: different at the time. And this is something that you 493 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: and I talked about before we recorded our recent episode 494 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: on Phineas Gauge that it was really hilarious in a 495 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: way to me to read these accounts from people who 496 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: were writing as though they totally knew what they were 497 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: talking about, but actually had no idea that pathogen's cause 498 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: disease like it's you will read medical documents from you know, 499 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: before the late eight late ninete or twentieth century, where 500 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: people just seemed to completely know what they're talking about. 501 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: But what they are talking about is not based on 502 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: the reality of medicine as we know it today. Well, 503 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: and some of it's just that they didn't have all 504 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: the the data to interpret the data they did have, right, 505 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: so it was easy to kind of, you know, extrapolate 506 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: things down the wrong path, right. They weren't necessarily using 507 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: the scientific method to approach questions of medicine. If this, 508 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: if these stories interest you a lot, there's an awesome 509 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: podcast called saw Bones Maximum fun Um. It is by 510 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: Sydney and Justin McElroy, and Sydney is a medical doctor 511 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: and she talks to her husband about just the crazy, 512 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: ridiculous things that used to happen and sometimes still do 513 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: happen in the world of medicine. And they have done 514 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: lots and lots of awesome episodes, including one on John 515 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: Harvey Killogg that actually has some information in it that 516 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: is not an hour one. So even if you the 517 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: nice interlocking yeah, even if you think you know all 518 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: the things about John Harvey Killogg, just give that a 519 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: listen anyway. So that's the scoop on the Vampire Ship scoop. 520 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: Do you have some listener mail to cap this episode off? 521 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: I do. I actually have two pieces. The first one 522 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: is from Sarah Kate and it's short. She says, Hello, Yeah, 523 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: probably like you. I so daily. In fact, I first 524 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: heard about the podcast during amending session. I was teaching 525 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: about darning, and she says, Now, I listen to the 526 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: podcast when I sew. She says, I appreciated the episode 527 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: about the invention of the sewing machine and the resulting 528 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: patent disputes. I'd like to hear a podcast about mercerized 529 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: cotton thread or viscos, which I understand to be made of, 530 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: among other things. Would pulp that's correct? Heck, nylon spandex elastic? 531 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: Now that was a great invention. It was even used 532 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: in corsets before they faded away. And why does elastic 533 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: lose its stretch as rubber bands do? Do they become unstretchable? 534 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: In time? Yours and the needle arts Sarah Kate and I. 535 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: She sent us a link to her blog which covers 536 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: her projects, which are very cool. She does a lot 537 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: more of sort of heirloom style sewing, yeah, which is 538 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: really really lovely. And I wanted to read this because, um, 539 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: while we don't have an immediate plan to talk about 540 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: those things here, uh, most of you may know and 541 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: stuff if you listen to stuff to blow your mind. 542 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: Robert is traveling, and so while he is in China, 543 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: which I know he has told their listeners he's doing. 544 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: Uh uh, I'm gonna sub in on one of their episodes, 545 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: and Julie and I've talked about that we want to 546 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: talk about textiles because nice a'sma jam yeah, and so 547 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about some of those things. 548 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: One of the awesome things about working at a place 549 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: that has so many cool podcasts is that when we 550 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: do have someone who's on leave for some reason, well 551 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of cool substitutions that people get to 552 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: play with. Yeah, some of our other editors have recorded 553 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: with Julie already, And I'm gonna talk about Velcrow a 554 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: lot because I'm really fascinated by it from a scientific 555 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: point of view. And our other one is from our 556 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: listener Catherine, and I'm not reading her whole email because 557 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: it's lengthy, but she talks about food, so you know, 558 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. Jesuys. Dear Holly and Tracy. 559 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: I've been listening to your podcast for a few months now, 560 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: usually wall fulfilling the less brainy aspects of my job 561 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: as an archivist at the Montana Historical Society. Uh she 562 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: has lots of reboxing of documents and sorting in microfiche. 563 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: I have worked in archives before. I know there are 564 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: times when your brain is not getting stimulated. It seems 565 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: like you would have to be, but not always. I 566 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: was on a hike though, when I finally got around 567 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: to listening to your podcast on ice cream over Labor 568 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: Day weekend, which may have been a poor decision considering 569 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: the heat of the day and the dearth of ice 570 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: cream atop Mountain Helena. Anyway, though it's not my area 571 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: in particular, the history of cooking and other quote women's 572 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: work is something of a specialization of a few of 573 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: our research center and museum staff, so I've been exposed 574 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: to some interesting tidbits about it over the past year 575 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: and a half. Ice Cream came to Montana before the 576 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: days of refrigerators. In the summertime, homesteaders would sometimes take 577 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: advantage of hail storms to provide the needed ice. Okay, 578 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: that's so cool, that's really say. And there's at least 579 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: one documented case of people going up into the mountains 580 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: to fetch snow to make ice cream for a Fourth 581 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: of July picnic. One of my favorite things about working 582 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: at MHS has been testing historic recipes. We had hand 583 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: cranked ice cream one afternoon in June, as well as 584 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: a pancake breakfast earlier this spring. Uh, more than a 585 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: dozen of us for Pie Day made pies from historic 586 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: recipes found in the Historical Societies Extensive cookbook collection. Mine 587 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: was an odd example of a non creamy banana pie 588 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: from a book printed in and of course everyone got 589 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: to sample the pies once the judges had finished their 590 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: taste tests, and then it talks about some other interesting 591 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: topics that may become a podcast for us, But first 592 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: that just sounds awesome. I would love to work in 593 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: a place with the Brazilian historical cookbooks. As a side 594 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: note that I know from my time in libraries, cookbooks 595 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: are one of the few books that pretty consistently gain 596 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: and appreciate in value because so if you have an 597 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: old one that's in good condition, because that's part of 598 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: the problem is that they get used and they get 599 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: food stains on them, and they are on the pages 600 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: covered in flour and grease and everything. Uh. Yeah, when 601 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: um my mother passed away was quite a while ago. 602 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: I was working in a library and she collected cookbooks. 603 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: And the first thing our library head said was, when 604 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: you are ready, I would like to talk to you 605 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: about your mother's cookbook collection. And so a lot of 606 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: those ended up in a library because no one was 607 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: going to use them in the family, not because they 608 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: weren't cool, but I mean, if you're trying to tackle 609 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: three recipes a day for the rest of your life, 610 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: you wouldn't get through them. Yeah, And that way it 611 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: kind of felt like other people could really benefit from 612 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: it so well. And suddenly I spent this past weekend 613 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: in Nashville, North Carolina, where there is a used in 614 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: rare bookshop called the Captain's Bookshelf. Now I wish I 615 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: had spent a lot more time looking. There was a 616 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: cookbook section and I kind of looked at it potentially 617 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: and said, you already have a joy of cooking, right, yes, okay, 618 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: And then that that was the end of my thought process. 619 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, I wish I had plundered through 620 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: that a lot. Yeah. Yeah, And it's not like every 621 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: um cookbook is going to appreciate in value, particularly now 622 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: that we have multiple printings of popular television personality. Like, 623 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: it's unlikely that your Rachel Ray book is going to 624 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: be really valuable in ten years, right, Not that there's 625 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: not good stuff in it, it's just not the same uh, 626 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: sort of supply and demand issues that some of the 627 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 1: older cookbooks that were printed in the early nineteen hundreds 628 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: have really appreciated in value. If there's a good copy 629 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: s to learn out, so just interesting cookbook nursery. If 630 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us about historical things 631 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: you have cooked, or anything you've cooked, or your pets 632 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: or anything we've talked about, uh, you can do so 633 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: at History Podcasts at Discovery dot com. You can also 634 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: connect with us on Twitter at missed in History and 635 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: at Facebook dot com slash history class Stuff. You can 636 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: visit us on Tumblr at missed in history dot tumbler 637 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: dot com, and we are on Pinterest pinning away. If 638 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: you would like to learn a little bit more about 639 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: what we've talked about today, you can go to our website. 640 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: Type in the word vampire and you will get a 641 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: lot of things, including how vampires work and a quiz 642 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: to see if you might be a vampire. You can 643 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: a lot of vampire happening. Yeah, you can learn about 644 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: that and almost anything else you can think of, Halloween 645 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: season related or otherwise. At our website, which is how 646 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 647 00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: of other topics. Because it has stuff works dot com. 648 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: M Hey, since uh these episodes that we're sharing our 649 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: past classics, we have some updated information that will supersede 650 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: the contact stuff you've heard before. If you want to 651 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: email us, our email address is History Podcast at house 652 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: to works dot com, and you can find us across 653 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: the spectrum of social media as missed in History. You 654 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: can also find us at missed in history dot com, 655 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: and you can visit our parent company, house to Works 656 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: at house works dot com for more on this and 657 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how staff works dot com.