Speaker 1: The volume.
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Speaker 2: with just the right amount of heat. I use it
Speaker 2: on my eggs, I put it on my sandwiches, I
Speaker 2: put it on my pizzas. I love that. I talked
Speaker 2: about this before vacation, then it happened during vacation, and
Speaker 2: I was told by a source. I really trust that
Speaker 2: Matt Stafford's agent and the Rams are going to meet
Speaker 2: at the Combine this week and try to bang something out.
Speaker 2: The Rams like him, Matt likes him. They want to
Speaker 2: stay together. He understands the importance of McVeigh and Pukinakua
Speaker 2: and the organization, and the Rams like him. And it's
Speaker 2: a bad quarterback class and Aaron Rodgers is an option,
Speaker 2: but not a preferred option. Stafford's better now so. But
Speaker 2: here's an interesting thing. A lot of Giants have pushback
Speaker 2: on this. We're not giving up the number three pick.
Speaker 2: So my take is, would you flip picks with the
Speaker 2: Rams because it's different. If this was a great quarterback
Speaker 2: draft class, I'd be very reluctant to give it the
Speaker 2: number three pick because I could trade down, right, which
Speaker 2: the Rams would do if they got the number three pick.
Speaker 2: They would trade down and get more picks. The Giants
Speaker 2: not necessary. They're not necessarily going to trade down. They're
Speaker 2: just going to draft the quarterback. Or they would get
Speaker 2: Stafford so they wouldn't have to. But when you as
Speaker 2: a GM, I would have no problem getting Matt Stafford
Speaker 2: giving them a three year deal, maybe four. You know,
Speaker 2: I would draft a quarterback second year into it and
Speaker 2: just say, okay, I'll take the Rams pick late first
Speaker 2: you get my draft top of the first. I would
Speaker 2: have no problem doing that because they've been unwatchable for
Speaker 2: a decade. The coach and the GM are on the
Speaker 2: hot seat in New York between Jade and Daniels and
Speaker 2: the Eagles roster. You're non competitive. You're not a competitive
Speaker 2: team going forward. But when I say that, Giant fans
Speaker 2: are you cannot trade the number three pick. There are drafts.
Speaker 2: I agree with that. This isn't You're not getting cam Ward.
Speaker 2: This is not one of those drafts.
Speaker 3: To me, if I was a GM, I couldn't trade
Speaker 3: that valuable of a pick and pay a thirty seven
Speaker 3: year old guy who does have some injury concerns at
Speaker 3: this point in time. But those guys are fighting for
Speaker 3: their jobs. So I think if you sat in Brian
Speaker 3: dabols shoes, he wouldn't hesitate to do that. I think
Speaker 3: he would just give the number three pick for Matt Stafford.
Speaker 3: Why would he not. He's going to get fired and
Speaker 3: fair not like he would not get a job immediately after.
Speaker 3: And the general manager, what's also just speaking realities, would
Speaker 3: never get another job, right. So to me, now if
Speaker 3: I was the owner, I could not We would not
Speaker 3: be doing that. That's I think it's risky business. I
Speaker 3: would also not be business. Look at the last two
Speaker 3: quarterbacks that were older, they got a lot of money
Speaker 3: that the Packers, who are one of the best drafting
Speaker 3: teams of like all time, We're like, yeah, we're done
Speaker 3: with Aaron Rodgers, and then Kevin O'Connell was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm done with Kirk Cousins, and both those teams regretted
Speaker 3: those moves immediately. I mean the Aaron Rodgers thing, well,
Speaker 3: they had to make that move. Like I don't blame
Speaker 3: them for making that trade the Jets, but that was
Speaker 3: a disaster. The Cousins thing was even worse because at
Speaker 3: least Rogers at one point in time was one of
Speaker 3: the greatest players ever. Cousins always had some limitations coming
Speaker 3: off the Achilles and let's face the Colin They're probably
Speaker 3: gonna cut him in the next seven ten days. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's going to get cut. So now Stafford at this
Speaker 3: point in time is better than that version of Rogers
Speaker 3: and definitely Cousins. But I you know where I come
Speaker 3: with Stafford. You know he is going to accumulate it.
Speaker 3: I looked he made over two hundred and twenty million
Speaker 3: dollars in Detroit. His career earnings right now are about
Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty million dollars. So when his career
Speaker 3: is over, he will be over four hundred million dollars.
Speaker 3: So even after taxes and after paying agents, he will
Speaker 3: have accumulated before he's forty years old, over two hundred
Speaker 3: million dollars in net income. I'm not even talking about
Speaker 3: what he's made off the field in la I know
Speaker 3: I see him on sleep number commercials. He is really
Speaker 3: really rich. Right at this point in time, when you
Speaker 3: spent a decade and a half almost in an irrelevant
Speaker 3: franchise and losing constantly in the peak of your powers,
Speaker 3: wouldn't you go like, look at what Tom did? Like,
Speaker 3: wouldn't it makes sense to behy Sean. It doesn't get
Speaker 3: any better than the Rams. I know we're well run.
Speaker 3: I know I have an elite coach. I'm in a
Speaker 3: huge market. I have made Peyton Manning level money, and
Speaker 3: I have gotten my ass kicked and we drafted the
Speaker 3: top ten. Now I'm with a franchise who I don't
Speaker 3: even know. These guys are bringing in and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, by mid season they're as kickers, Like, why
Speaker 3: would I want what I would come out? I would
Speaker 3: have stopped this conversation. I will do whatever it takes.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna make five million dollars, but why wouldn't
Speaker 3: he be like, I'm making twenty seven this year. Let's
Speaker 3: do a two year deal for like forty million. Guarantee
Speaker 3: every penny you go out and buy players. I want
Speaker 3: to be here. I'm gonna go Brady, I've already people like,
Speaker 3: don't count other people's money. This guy has made so
Speaker 3: much money and he played and such a bad franchise,
Speaker 3: shouldn't he Like, I wouldn't want any part of the Giants.
Speaker 3: If you're Matt.
Speaker 2: Stafford, what are we talking about now?
Speaker 3: I see? But he likes his money, there's no doubt.
Speaker 3: Like him and Jimmy sexon there they have been Peyton
Speaker 3: Manning like every penny, every penny, yeh penny. And I
Speaker 3: don't blame the Rams like no, no more every pennybody.
Speaker 2: I think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams, And
Speaker 2: to your point, I would want to stay with the Rams.
Speaker 2: The value of the value of Sean McVay.
Speaker 3: For a quarterback and just a franchise and how well
Speaker 3: run they are at Yeah he saw the Lions for
Speaker 3: fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think a lot of this. I think
Speaker 2: when things go public, and you know, like like steven
Speaker 2: A's contract went public, I always think when I see
Speaker 2: that that the person actually wants to sign with the
Speaker 2: company it goes public, you know. I mean, and I'm
Speaker 2: this is not a shot at stephen A, but I
Speaker 2: always think that whenever a person because I could make
Speaker 2: my stuff go public on my contract and I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not comfortable with it, but a lot of people are,
Speaker 2: and I'm not begrudging them. But Stafford and these people
Speaker 2: that it gets out either through their agent or sources.
Speaker 2: Stuff gets out when people wants it want it out. Right,
Speaker 2: Like in my entire life, stories get out when people
Speaker 2: want it out. That's the reason stuff gets out. I've
Speaker 2: got secrets in my career in negotiations never gotten out
Speaker 2: because the company doesn't want them out, and I don't
Speaker 2: want them out. This time into my negotiations, nothing gets out.
Speaker 2: I don't want it out, they don't want it out.
Speaker 2: I always tell my bosses keep it out of the press.
Speaker 2: I don't want anything in the press. But when people do,
Speaker 2: it does get out there. It's generally because the sides
Speaker 2: want a deal, they want to remate. So when I
Speaker 2: see the Matt Stafford stuff, my take is Matt wants
Speaker 2: to stay in Los Angeles. He's got a gorgeous place
Speaker 2: near the beach, and I think her moost are Manhattan Beach.
Speaker 2: It's great weather. He was in the Midwest for years.
Speaker 2: He's a Texas Georgia kid. He probably likes warm weather.
Speaker 2: So I and this this is not an indictment on
Speaker 2: anybody that goes public, but it discounts in politics if
Speaker 2: you're trying to get legislation passed. It counts in contracts.
Speaker 2: It counts when I when I, I mean stuff is
Speaker 2: out when somebody is trying to create leverage. But they
Speaker 2: truthfully they want to stay where they're at. So I
Speaker 2: think he'll be a round.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think this one's pretty clear. Because
Speaker 3: this kind of happened last year, it feels a little
Speaker 3: more out this year. Is that the Rams are tough
Speaker 3: to negotiate with. You know, early on in their tenure
Speaker 3: with Les and John, they signed a deal that they
Speaker 3: clearly regretted in Todd Gurley. And ever since they've been
Speaker 3: pretty good, right, and they haven't got in these positions where,
Speaker 3: you know, the Niners have kind of found themselves the
Speaker 3: last couple of years like ah, we regret that Debo deal. Ah,
Speaker 3: we regret that Iuke deal. And now they're kind of
Speaker 3: burned and now they're pivoting like, oh, we got to
Speaker 3: be careful with doing that stuff. The Rams learned early
Speaker 3: on because Todd Gurley's need just one and this Stafford thing.
Speaker 3: I think they have just been they've been tough with him.
Speaker 3: You know, he's been you know, with Detroit, they always
Speaker 3: bet right over and gave him and he was always
Speaker 3: the highest paid guy. You know. The last couple of years,
Speaker 3: it's been hard. He's like, I'm only making twenty seven.
Speaker 3: They're like, well, we'll give you a couple of million
Speaker 3: dollars more, but we're not. We're not giving you two years,
Speaker 3: one hundred million dollars. Mat that's just not happening, right,
Speaker 3: And we want you, you want us, we're winning, listen,
Speaker 3: And I know you only have a chance, Like once
Speaker 3: he leaves, he's probably not going to make when he's
Speaker 3: forty two years old, retired thirty million dollars his first
Speaker 3: shot whatever he does. So I understand you have the
Speaker 3: opportunity to make a lot of it. But he's made
Speaker 3: so much in winning, like he could go down as
Speaker 3: a legendary player that I would be very careful about
Speaker 3: driving this hard negotiation. Now. I think he also knows, like,
Speaker 3: what what would the Rams do? You know, Sean McVay.
Speaker 3: They're not really in the business of just like, oh,
Speaker 3: we'll figure it out on the fly like that. They
Speaker 3: understand what they have, but I think they have some
Speaker 3: negotiating power because, like you said, he doesn't want to leave.
Speaker 3: Look at his options like the Giants are, the Titans
Speaker 3: are going to try. What are we talking about?
Speaker 1: Ros uh?
Speaker 2: And I do think there's I think the Air Rogers
Speaker 2: thing has some legs. And I'll say this, we know
Speaker 2: that coaching matters with quarterbacks. Last ten games last year
Speaker 2: when Solo was gone, the Jets were one of the
Speaker 2: poorest coach teams in the league, up and down both
Speaker 2: sides of the ball, and Aaron put up good numbers.
Speaker 2: Aaron with McVeigh would put up good numbers, B plus numbers,
Speaker 2: maybe not A numbers. So I think that's something they've
Speaker 2: thought about. Aaron's got a place in Malibu, and it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: if we get trapped here, we'll bring on Aeron for
Speaker 2: a couple of year deal plus Aaron. From all the indications,
Speaker 2: Aaron wanted to be a Jet and was dumped for
Speaker 2: the second time, so I think Aaron does not want
Speaker 2: to end his career like that. And again, I thought
Speaker 2: in his last ten games he had like a ninety
Speaker 2: eight passer rating. He was pretty good. So my take
Speaker 2: is Aaron. It's not a I mean I had somebody
Speaker 2: that I really trust tell me this that Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 2: is who McVeigh would go after. I mean, he went
Speaker 2: after a guy in Baker Mayfield that came with baggage.
Speaker 2: He went after him in one second.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Wentz they got off. You know, they've done a
Speaker 3: lot of that. He has, no he's got He's like
Speaker 3: the young version of Andy Reid. They'll take on problems.
Speaker 3: The difference though, is, to me, there's a big difference
Speaker 3: is the player Aaron Rodgers wants no part of getting hit.
Speaker 3: He just will not. And that's still a quality that
Speaker 3: Stafford will sit in there. He will get peppered as
Speaker 3: he delivers a strike, and that you know, at the
Speaker 3: level in which the Rams, I mean they're the only
Speaker 3: team that went toe to toe with the Eagles, you know,
Speaker 3: so it's like they're trying to compete for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3: That difference in standing in there throughout the course of
Speaker 3: a season, in the big games, I think there would
Speaker 3: be a drop off unless Aaron was just willing again
Speaker 3: to play like he did, and I don't think at
Speaker 3: forty one years old he would be. I mean, that
Speaker 3: is one thing Stafford will sit in there kind of
Speaker 3: like the old school quarterbacks and still get hit. So
Speaker 3: I understand maybe his negotiating, like, hey guys, I'm taking
Speaker 3: a lot of hits here too, Like I mean, I
Speaker 3: need some money for this, for these bruises that I
Speaker 3: wake up with every Monday morning.
Speaker 2: Let's just throw this name out there because the combine
Speaker 2: starts this week and before we get into that free agencies.
Speaker 2: After that, Sam Darnold had a couple of disappointing games
Speaker 2: end of the season. Sam Darnold a really good season.
Speaker 2: Sam's got a market. Sam is still in the middle
Speaker 2: of his prime. What is your I contend that Las
Speaker 2: Vegas and with Chip Kelly and the Colts with Shane
Speaker 2: Steiken are really good fits in they feels like Sam
Speaker 2: in that division can go toe to toe with those quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: You're not going toe to toe with a Herbert I
Speaker 2: don't think, or a Mahomes, But I think you put
Speaker 2: him in the AFC South with Shane Steikin. I think
Speaker 2: he can go toe to toe with a CJ. Stroud
Speaker 2: on most Sundays. What do you think happens with Sam?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot change. I remember going live
Speaker 3: with you right after he made that throw against Seattle
Speaker 3: and I was like, this guy, how are they going
Speaker 3: to not give him a huge contract? And it shows
Speaker 3: you the power of these primetime games. Let's face there
Speaker 3: was a lot, you know, obviously the division was on
Speaker 3: the line that Sunday night, and then the playoff game
Speaker 3: was really, really bad. I still think at minimum he's
Speaker 3: going to get a Baker Mayfield this year, one hundred
Speaker 3: million dollars type contest, isn't he? And clearly with good
Speaker 3: coaching you can. I mean, his team was sixty minutes
Speaker 3: away from the number one overall Sea and he played
Speaker 3: a massive role in that. So I think you gotta
Speaker 3: be careful. Yeah, I think that game exposed a little bit.
Speaker 3: When he starts getting blitzed, he starts you know, I
Speaker 3: don't want to say seeing ghost. He's come a long
Speaker 3: way since then, but he looked dramatically different in those
Speaker 3: two games than he did. But you'd also say he's
Speaker 3: you know, Aaron Glenn became a head coach, one of
Speaker 3: the best defensive coordinators in the league and just was
Speaker 3: blitzing them every single play. And Sean McVay and Shula
Speaker 3: are just they had that defense roleing I mean they went,
Speaker 3: they were hitting Hurts, they made him look bad in
Speaker 3: that game, they were playing good defense. So I still
Speaker 3: would have no problem given now that, here's the thing, like,
Speaker 3: you know, these quarterbacks, the dominoes, all these teams looking
Speaker 3: are gonna have some ranking going into the combine when
Speaker 3: they talk to the agent. So it's like, are you
Speaker 3: all in on Sam Donald? Because if you draft or
Speaker 3: if you signed Sam Donald to a multi year deal,
Speaker 3: you're probably not drafting a quarterback if you're the Giants,
Speaker 3: if you're the Titans, if you're the Raiders, But if
Speaker 3: you take Cousins or Rogers, you know, you're probably still
Speaker 3: have no problem drafting a quarterback really high. So I
Speaker 3: think Darnold would be the one guy that would just
Speaker 3: get signed and immediately become, you know, kind of not
Speaker 3: your long term starter, but at least in the immediate
Speaker 3: next couple of year starter.
Speaker 2: What do you expect combine starts on Thursday? Shador standers
Speaker 2: won't work out at the combine, which has become kind
Speaker 2: of a trend with quarterbacks. What are you expecting? What
Speaker 2: are you looking for?
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, Shador is a good example of like,
Speaker 3: coming into this year, every important college director slash assistant
Speaker 3: GM saw him play life. He was such a big
Speaker 3: prospect coming into the season. There is not an NFL
Speaker 3: team worth their salt, and every team, once they realized
Speaker 3: we needed a quarterback probably saw him multiple times play game.
Speaker 3: So it's the combine for him. And I'd even say
Speaker 3: the same thing about cam Ward. Remember when he transferred
Speaker 3: to Miami, he was the number one essentially free agent
Speaker 3: college football. I think it would go for him as well,
Speaker 3: which wouldn't shock me if he doesn't throw. Though, Chador isn't,
Speaker 3: you know, some elite prospect in terms of his qualities, Like,
Speaker 3: if you're Josh Allen, you should throw at the combine.
Speaker 3: Why you're throwing one hundred miles an hour. I remember
Speaker 3: Lamar Jackson when he got all the pushback about Pollan's
Speaker 3: common about the wide receiver. He's like, I'm not gonna run.
Speaker 3: It's like, Lamar, you're gonna run a four to two.
Speaker 3: Everyone's head's gonna turn and you're gonna be the talk
Speaker 3: of the combine. It was a mistake not running. Now,
Speaker 3: granted it all worked out. I don't blame Chador for
Speaker 3: not throwing in this environment because it's not the best environment.
Speaker 3: If I'm cam Ward, you have a huge arm, throw, yeah,
Speaker 3: I would No one cares about completions and completions you're
Speaker 3: throwing people you don't know. Let that ball rip as
Speaker 3: all the coaches and gms are sitting there in the
Speaker 3: boxes and in the seats right there in Indy. So
Speaker 3: I think those two guys and a huge part of
Speaker 3: the combine is the interviews. And with a quarterback, and
Speaker 3: I would throw Jackson Darton here, who I think is
Speaker 3: gonna gain some momentum as a potential first round pick.
Speaker 3: Is the person like, what are you like as guy?
Speaker 3: I mean last year you see some of these clips,
Speaker 3: it was a pretty high level class. You know, Jane
Speaker 3: Daniel's really high level guy. Obviously Caleb everyone had known
Speaker 3: him for years and he was a lot to go
Speaker 3: number one. But Drake May, Michael Pennix, I mean, the
Speaker 3: bo Nicks, JJ McCarthy. So it was like that they're
Speaker 3: gonna crush these interviews. Coaches, this is the first the
Speaker 3: gms and the scouts have been watching these guys for years.
Speaker 3: The coaches, you know, NFL coaches don't really watch as
Speaker 3: much college football as the average fan would think. The
Speaker 3: head coach might have it on, you know, Andy Reid does,
Speaker 3: but a lot of guys are just sco tunnel vision.
Speaker 3: They don't know that much about these players and definitely
Speaker 3: have never met him and a lot of times haven't
Speaker 3: really evaluated them. So this is kind of their first exposure.
Speaker 3: So meeting them as a human being and getting to
Speaker 3: know the guy and getting to know like their football
Speaker 3: smarts and their football IQ. It's a huge, huge moment
Speaker 3: for all the guys that you know, we're in the
Speaker 3: mix to. I mean, all these guys are draft We're
Speaker 3: gonna get drafted, the majority of the guys going to Combine,
Speaker 3: but definitely the guys that have like the ability to
Speaker 3: get drafted in the first round. I mean there's just
Speaker 3: a lot of money on the line, you know, getting drafted.
Speaker 1: Ygh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Combine's interesting. I think I was into it
Speaker 2: more ten years ago, and I think some coaches feel
Speaker 2: the same way. They don't necessarily some go, some don't.
Speaker 2: I have you been surprised as a former NFL scout,
Speaker 2: some of these coaching staffs just don't go anymore. They
Speaker 2: just say I'm not going, not wasting my time. Does
Speaker 2: that surprise you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly has bothered me in the past because I go, well,
Speaker 3: Belichick always went, and now I'll promise you this, Andy
Speaker 3: Reid's going to be there. It's like, well, if the
Speaker 3: best guy's there and values it. It doesn't mean he
Speaker 3: goes to everything, but he values meeting the guys because
Speaker 3: there's one thing to evaluate them off a tape. Everything's taped, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: your workout and even your interviews, and some of these
Speaker 3: guys now can be there in a zoom interview. There
Speaker 3: is a big difference if you're interviewing someone to be
Speaker 3: the thirteenth overall pick standing there and talking to him
Speaker 3: and meeting him, seeing him face to face than zooming him.
Speaker 3: So I do believe you should go. I saw my
Speaker 3: guy Tim Kala Kami in the Bay Area, Kyle Shanahan
Speaker 3: like McVeigh stop going. Well, it's one thing when you're
Speaker 3: going to the Super Bowl or the NFC Championship every year.
Speaker 3: He reported, Kyle's probably gonna go this year. Kind of
Speaker 3: need to meet these guys. But my thing is like,
Speaker 3: if the top coach is there and the Sandy Reid
Speaker 3: runs the league, like, you should be there. And so
Speaker 3: I do believe there's value, not in like your change
Speaker 3: of direction in a condra okay, but like you might
Speaker 3: draft this guy in the second round. It's kind of
Speaker 3: gonna be a big deal when it's like a year
Speaker 3: in you hate the kid and it's your own fault
Speaker 3: when you didn't put in max effort to get to
Speaker 3: know him, to get to meet him every opportunity. I mean,
Speaker 3: at this point in time, the salary CAP's almost three
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars. It's pretty big business. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: these are your most important assets. So I do think
Speaker 3: the value is more less about the running and catching
Speaker 3: the gauntlet drill and more just sitting with the kid
Speaker 3: and interviewing them and being there with your coordinators. Not
Speaker 3: every coach needs to go, but to me, the head
Speaker 3: coach and the coordinators should all be present with the
Speaker 3: with the scouting staff.
Speaker 2: There are certain things that are just innate. They're true.
Speaker 2: You can't argue them. There's going to be a couple
Speaker 2: players in the top fifteen that will be busts. They
Speaker 2: just won't be very good, and for a variety of issues.
Speaker 2: Some I mean, Romadonze is talented, he wasn't as good
Speaker 2: as I thought as a rookie I think he'll I mean,
Speaker 2: I thought that'd be more splash, but I think.
Speaker 3: A lot of it was.
Speaker 2: It was such a mess, you know, it was all
Speaker 2: a mess, and I think he'll bounce back. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: throw Travis Hunter out as a player that could be,
Speaker 2: that could underachieve. So I don't doubt he's good enough
Speaker 2: to be a number two receiver in the NFL and
Speaker 2: a number one corner. I don't doubt either, but to
Speaker 2: ask to be both, I mean, if you had a
Speaker 2: great linebacker who also played tight end, it's undeniable that
Speaker 2: the physical toll would hurt what your best at. I
Speaker 2: would put him at corner, but he wants to be
Speaker 2: a receiver. I don't know if he's a number one
Speaker 2: receiver in the NFL. Maybe on a weaker team. He's
Speaker 2: certainly good enough. But you can't be a number one
Speaker 2: receiver if you have a young quarterback who's trying to
Speaker 2: get reps confidence in timing. It's a timing position. Running
Speaker 2: Back isn't Cornerback isn't you can I mean high school
Speaker 2: to college, college to the pros running back in cornerback,
Speaker 2: you can walk in and just play. You could just
Speaker 2: I mean those are two positions. I've been told this forever.
Speaker 2: You would know this is a scout running back in cornerback.
Speaker 2: You could miss some of camp, you could be a
Speaker 2: you could have a contract hold out. You're ready to
Speaker 2: play week one or week two.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a very instinctive PAUSI yeah, both of them.
Speaker 2: Wide receiver, Especially with a young quarterback, it's a timing position.
Speaker 2: Help Brady was an old quarterback. If he didn't trust
Speaker 2: you'd be in the right spot, Tom would ghost you.
Speaker 2: I think Travis Hunter, I think this coming to a
Speaker 2: bad team, he'll have a lot of leverage. He'll play
Speaker 2: both ways. I could see that being a problem.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, and we'll find out. It was just
Speaker 3: a name on a paper. Did announce he's going to
Speaker 3: the combine as a corner. Now all the top guys
Speaker 3: will be interviewed, they go to the podium. It'll be
Speaker 3: interesting if he says, I'm here as a corner, but
Speaker 3: I also plan on playing wide receiver. I do think
Speaker 3: it's fair to say most high level people in any
Speaker 3: industry are very singular focused, and it is very difficult
Speaker 3: to spread yourself thin, especially when you're factory in youth.
Speaker 3: I mean he's very young. I think it's impossible to
Speaker 3: go do what he did. What he did in college
Speaker 3: was the Big twelve, wasn't the SEC or the Big ten,
Speaker 3: but it was still one of the greatest athletic achievements
Speaker 3: we've ever seen. The amount of snaps he's playing, do
Speaker 3: you agree, Oh yeah, But if you're going to be
Speaker 3: a both way corner wide receiver just playing corner alone,
Speaker 3: think of the wide receivers right now in the NFL,
Speaker 3: the talent on a weekly basis of just pick up
Speaker 3: a random team who their schedule is. On a week
Speaker 3: you're chasing those guys for sixty seventy snaps. He would
Speaker 3: be the number one corner and then you would try
Speaker 3: to play full time wide receiver. I think it would
Speaker 3: be borderline impossible. On the body. I don't think it's
Speaker 3: And you go back to look at Deon Sanders, I
Speaker 3: don't even think he had that many catches in his career.
Speaker 3: And this is and Dion, I mean, was just a
Speaker 3: better prospect. Yes, I mean, try sound is a great prospect.
Speaker 3: Give me a break. Deon's one of the greatest athletes
Speaker 3: in the history of America. So I do think he
Speaker 3: just needs to focus on one of the positions, and
Speaker 3: I hope and I think he's making the right decision
Speaker 3: right now at corner, and then he can be at
Speaker 3: just a high level corner. I don't think it's possible
Speaker 3: to go both ways. I don't think any team wants
Speaker 3: him to be. That doesn't mean you can't, you know,
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson type coordinator can't run a trick for him,
Speaker 3: bring him in on offense. They used to do that
Speaker 3: with Dion when I was a kid. But like, I
Speaker 3: want you to be a lockdown corner, Derek Stingley, He's
Speaker 3: probably gonna get a hundred million dollars offseason. Why because
Speaker 3: he goes up against your number one wide receiver who
Speaker 3: are all making one hundred and eighty million dollars and
Speaker 3: locks him down. Derevas did it, Sherman did it? You
Speaker 3: get paid a lot of money, and he's it's more
Speaker 3: valuable because find it's much easier to find a wide
Speaker 3: receiver than it is a corner. There just aren't that many.
Speaker 3: Most teams don't have one good corner, right The teams
Speaker 3: that have two are like complete outliers in the nation. Yets. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I hope he stays just at one now we'll
Speaker 3: see I think, you know, Dion, who's essentially like feels
Speaker 3: like his father, constantly talks like he's going to do
Speaker 3: both ways, like, so he's not slowing it down. And
Speaker 3: I do think Dion speaks for Travis a little bit,
Speaker 3: and Travis hasn't walked away from it. So I do
Speaker 3: think it's going to be interesting to see in Indy
Speaker 3: when he talks exactly what he says, because if he
Speaker 3: does say like, I plan on doing both like he's
Speaker 3: telling you like, eventually you got to just listen to
Speaker 3: what he's saying and believe him.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you know he's one of my favorite people. His
Speaker 2: name is Ethan Strauss and he used to be part
Speaker 2: of the traditional media and he kicked that dead end
Speaker 2: profession of the curve and now he is a sub
Speaker 2: stack Maven. He is a podcasting whiz. House of Strauss
Speaker 2: to me is my podcast listen of choice, especially on
Speaker 2: long walks. I want to talk about the Warriors you
Speaker 2: covered for years. So I looked Sportico had a list
Speaker 2: today of the five most valuable franchises in the United States.
Speaker 2: Three of them are NBA franchises and one was the Warriors. Now,
Speaker 2: if I would have told you twenty years ago it's
Speaker 2: going to go Cowboys and Golden State Warriors, you anybody
Speaker 2: would have thought, what the hell happened? They were a
Speaker 2: mess for twenty years. I mean I grew up with
Speaker 2: them with Rick Berry in the seventies. You know, they
Speaker 2: had some interesting teams Tim Hardaway, but it was just
Speaker 2: kind of a dead brand, which the Yankees were, by
Speaker 2: the way, in the eighties, the Don Mattingly years, it
Speaker 2: was a dead brand. You can look back and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that can take credit. But I've
Speaker 2: thought about this. The Lakers were very big pre Lebron
Speaker 2: and the Cowboys were big before Dak and most of
Speaker 2: these organizations that are listed. The Celtics have been big
Speaker 2: since Bill Russell. Yeah, but you look at the Warriors
Speaker 2: and as somebody that covered them, can you make an
Speaker 2: argument if there are eight billion dollar franchise, that's seven
Speaker 2: and a half of that have been driven by Steph Curry.
Speaker 1: I know it's the number of a B. I'll say
Speaker 1: that much about it, whatever it is. I feel like
Speaker 1: Logan Roy, the Logan Roy line where nobody wanted to
Speaker 1: watch the Warriors, but then we got Steph Curry and
Speaker 1: we got some draft picks, and look at them. It's
Speaker 1: amazing how forgotten it is, how irrelevant they were. And
Speaker 1: I remember being in those locker rooms where a tumblewee
Speaker 1: could have blown through because there's no.
Speaker 2: Media at all.
Speaker 1: That's all I got to covering them, Colin, is that
Speaker 1: I was just blogging about them as a fan on
Speaker 1: a fan site, Warriors World, back in the day, and
Speaker 1: I had other jobs that I was doing, and the
Speaker 1: guy running the blog said, you know, we can get
Speaker 1: a credential, and I said really, and says, yeah, nobody's
Speaker 1: going to these games like they're desperate for somebody to
Speaker 1: go to one of these games because they've got the
Speaker 1: beat writer and then they've got the other beat writer.
Speaker 1: Half the time, those two beat writers are talking to
Speaker 1: each other and they're saying, Hey, if you don't show
Speaker 1: up to practice, I won't show up to practice. And
Speaker 1: then we both get the day off like that was
Speaker 1: happening back then, and nobody would show up to practice
Speaker 1: and get any kind of story. It's been driven by Steph.
Speaker 1: It's been driven by more than Steph. I'm a little
Speaker 1: bit defensive on behalf of your guy, Draymond Green's legacy.
Speaker 1: I know he can annoy people, but I think because
Speaker 1: he annoys people, they start rewriting history. I see people say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, drayam am was drafted into the perfect situation.
Speaker 1: Nobody has been drafted into a more perfect situation. And
Speaker 1: I go when he showed up, there was no situation.
Speaker 1: There was no situation to speak of. Nobody cared about
Speaker 1: this team, nobody cared about this franchise. Nobody expected anything
Speaker 1: good on twenty twelve draft night, and that guy was
Speaker 1: a second round pick, no guaranteed spot, and he had
Speaker 1: to scrape claw wrench jobs away from guys getting paid
Speaker 1: a lot more money, with a lot more organizational investment.
Speaker 1: He became the best defensive player of his generation, which
Speaker 1: then merged with Steph Curry being the best offensive player
Speaker 1: of his generation, and a lot of other things have
Speaker 1: gone right in between some other things going wrong. But
Speaker 1: it's a crazy, just miracle of a story. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're right to hit on it that we
Speaker 1: almost take it for granted. We almost act as though
Speaker 1: this has always been a glamour franchise. They've always been here.
Speaker 1: It was not that way they were Clippers North.
Speaker 3: It was different.
Speaker 2: I think there's an argument to be made, and I
Speaker 2: haven't given it that much thought that Steph Curry, more
Speaker 2: than any basketball player, football player, golfer, tennis player, or
Speaker 2: hockey player changed his individual sport more. I don't think
Speaker 2: there's ever been a player in the I mean, oh,
Speaker 2: Tawny's great, but we had Babe Ruth. He pitched and
Speaker 2: batted too. You look at the great football players, Well,
Speaker 2: Mahomes was great, so was John Elway and Dan Marino
Speaker 2: and Brett farre and and they're they're I think you're
Speaker 2: I mean, Philadelphia has a tush push. People are a
Speaker 2: little uncomfortable with it outside of Philadelphia. It's not changing football.
Speaker 2: It's just a really good fourth down play. Steph curR
Speaker 2: has changed every single level of basketball. Everything he's changed.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I look at the shots being
Speaker 2: taken now, and like anything else, any cultural change is
Speaker 2: that at some point they all go south. Like analytics
Speaker 2: for baseball, You're like, yeah, the game is more efficient.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, now it's more boring. Oh wait, three pointers
Speaker 2: the math are better than two pointers. Oh wait, now
Speaker 2: it's boring. That's the way analytics all work is that
Speaker 2: these are TV products, and initially they make the game
Speaker 2: more efficient, and they work on a volume scale regular season,
Speaker 2: but ultimately analytics don't generally work in any sport quite
Speaker 2: as effectively in postseasons, and they generally aren't good for television.
Speaker 2: And so Steph, now there's a little bit of a Okay,
Speaker 2: we all fell in love with small ball and Steph,
Speaker 2: but now it's been copied so often and people are
Speaker 2: doing at such a a much more a poor level.
Speaker 2: They don't I mean, Houston can't shoot, and they're I mean,
Speaker 2: we got Wemby and guy is shooting too many threes.
Speaker 2: Joel Embiid's never shot more threes. He shoots twenty nine percent.
Speaker 2: So but I do think Steph more than any athlete
Speaker 2: of my lifetime literally changed Muhammad Ali personality driven athlete.
Speaker 2: I think I think he was for a long time
Speaker 2: all Lee was what people looked at and went, oh
Speaker 2: my god, look how big you get if you let
Speaker 2: your personality out. But I mean, that's just my take
Speaker 2: that Steph Curry is probably one of one in a
Speaker 2: cultural it's changing of sports esthetic and style of play.
Speaker 3: You said a lot there.
Speaker 2: I love this topic is a great topic.
Speaker 1: I totally agree, and I think what's remarkable about Steph
Speaker 1: and we need to add it when we say nobody
Speaker 1: has changed their sport more. When that happens, people can
Speaker 1: become a victim of their own influence. Mike D'Antoni revolutionizes basketball,
Speaker 1: but then he's almost a less he's almost a less
Speaker 1: effective coach because all these other people learn how to
Speaker 1: do it and maybe even refine it and maybe even
Speaker 1: do it better, and he gets overrun and he doesn't
Speaker 1: actually become a championship winning coach. The crazy thing about
Speaker 1: Steph is that he's been doing it for over ten
Speaker 1: years and he has revolutionized the NBA and he's still
Speaker 1: the best at doing it. He showed people the way
Speaker 1: it could be done. He gave them the recipe and
Speaker 1: he's still the best chef cooking it. I didn't mean
Speaker 1: to make a chef curry joke right there, but you
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. That's unbelievable to do that, to
Speaker 1: be so influential and yet remain the best at what
Speaker 1: you're doing. Now, the other part of it that you've said,
Speaker 1: the malign influence on the sport with analytics, the optimization problem,
Speaker 1: I think that's real. There are these strange things where
Speaker 1: sometimes we like something when one person does it, but
Speaker 1: we don't like when a bunch of other people are
Speaker 1: doing it. I felt that way about Zachlow's writing. Zach
Speaker 1: Low probably the greatest NBA writer of all time. He
Speaker 1: had a very particular sort of style that was highly
Speaker 1: informational and could be a little bit quirky but was
Speaker 1: fairly dry. But the way he did it was great.
Speaker 1: But so many younger writers coming up and bloggers coming up,
Speaker 1: they wanted to be like Zach Low because Zach was
Speaker 1: the man. And I looked at what they were doing
Speaker 1: and I went, I don't know if I like you
Speaker 1: doing this. It doesn't work when you do it. This
Speaker 1: isn't a recipe that works when somebody else does it.
Speaker 1: It would have been better if you went with something else.
Speaker 1: And maybe even a generation before that, Bill Simmons might
Speaker 1: have been that guy. Or I loved Bill Simmons columns.
Speaker 1: But then I'm watching people try to be irreverent and
Speaker 1: funny in the way Bill did it, and it's just
Speaker 1: this doesn't scale. This isn't what I want, This isn't
Speaker 1: what I want. I just want Bill doing it. That's
Speaker 1: what it feels a little bit like right now. In
Speaker 1: the NBA, where a lot of people loved watching those
Speaker 1: Warriors in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, not everybody loved watching
Speaker 1: these teams that emulated the three point shooting. As optimization
Speaker 1: takes over and now most of the shots are going
Speaker 1: to be three pointers.
Speaker 2: You know what I thought was really interesting because I
Speaker 2: thought Caitlin Clark I was really disappointed in the WNBA
Speaker 2: is that I thought Caitlin Clark's appeal was very simple.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, we found that female Steph Curry. She's taking
Speaker 2: shots women don't take. I didn't think there was anything
Speaker 2: to it. And when and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: and she has this Angel Reese. You know, competition in
Speaker 2: college like magic and bird. It pivots to the professional
Speaker 2: league and it's fascinating. And Angel Reese, I think her
Speaker 2: success helps Caitlin Clark. I think it feels Bird Magic,
Speaker 2: although I don't think Angel is close to Kaylin as
Speaker 2: an influencer. Bird and Magic both had that kind of
Speaker 2: ended up the perfect cities. Bird in kind of tough
Speaker 2: guy Boston and Magic and you know, showy Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: But it was funny because with male sports, I feel
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel bad for Caitlin Clark in the WNBA
Speaker 2: that people are trying to explain her popularity. Nobody ever
Speaker 2: had to explain Steph Curry. It was just did he
Speaker 2: just shoot from thirty four feet off balance and make
Speaker 2: three in a row? And there's part of me that
Speaker 2: feels sympathetic to the WNBA and part of me that doesn't.
Speaker 2: First of all, I feel like when you're young, when
Speaker 2: Bryce Harper came into baseball, he went through an Andy
Speaker 2: duframe tunnel for about three years because he was flashy, right,
Speaker 2: and baseball doesn't like flashy. So Caitlin's not the first
Speaker 2: athlete the deal with this, Tiger Woods had to deal
Speaker 2: with a lot of comments and a lot of traditionalists
Speaker 2: pushing back, and the netw only shows type, so Caitlin's
Speaker 2: not the first to go through it. But I do
Speaker 2: think the WNBA has gotten to a point where I
Speaker 2: want to say, girls, girls, she's the female staff. Just
Speaker 2: embrace the hell out of her. You're getting on private jets.
Speaker 2: So I tried to be I tried to defend the
Speaker 2: WNBA initially, But how does that land for you? Because
Speaker 2: I think they've gotten to a point where I'm finding
Speaker 2: it hard now, Like if she if the chippy play continues,
Speaker 2: you may just lose me as a viewer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it reminds me of they say
Speaker 1: about academia that the fights are so vicious because the
Speaker 1: stakes are so small and the WNBA there wasn't money
Speaker 1: to be made, and so attention is the money. And
Speaker 1: suddenly this player comes in and is getting all the attention.
Speaker 3: And this is the.
Speaker 1: Primary thing that you care about if you're not getting
Speaker 1: any sort of pay in accordance with what you think
Speaker 1: your value is. And there was a ton of resentment
Speaker 1: towards her, and a lot of people in that league
Speaker 1: seem to get caught up on this whole.
Speaker 2: Versus is problem.
Speaker 1: You know, there are people that can really grapple with
Speaker 1: what is, and there are people who get really stuck
Speaker 1: on how it ought to be and they're just fixated
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 3: It ought to be.
Speaker 1: It ought to be Asia Wilson ought to be a
Speaker 1: huge superstar. Asia Wilson ought to be the person Nike
Speaker 1: is promoting because she's the best player in the league,
Speaker 1: and she is the best player.
Speaker 2: In the league.
Speaker 1: But that's just not what it is. People are interested
Speaker 1: in Kaitlyn Clark. They like watching Caitlin Clark Asia Wilson's game.
Speaker 1: It's more analogous to a Tim Duncan. People are not
Speaker 1: as interested in that. You can say there's a racial
Speaker 1: element of that. Okay, I don't know what to do
Speaker 1: with that. We can't just replace Caitlyn Clark with somebody else.
Speaker 1: She's the person who showed up for this particular job
Speaker 1: of being Caitlin Clark. She's the one who's resonating. And
Speaker 1: we can either benefit from what it is, or we
Speaker 1: can tear apart everybody who's into it and make everybody
Speaker 1: feel bad about it and try to stop it from happening.
Speaker 1: That ladder move seems completely insane to me, and yet
Speaker 1: it's entirely infected.
Speaker 2: A lot of the coverage of the.
Speaker 1: WNBA from people who support the league at least support it,
Speaker 1: you know, in quotations, because they're not helping it when
Speaker 1: they go about it that way. And even the you know,
Speaker 1: Time magazine and even some of these publications that covered
Speaker 1: it's like they're scared, they're worried if they're not giving
Speaker 1: enough attention to the other players.
Speaker 2: Look at the history of basketball. Kareem Janis Jokic did
Speaker 2: not move the ratings needle. Yeah, Steph Michael, smaller players did.
Speaker 2: This is the history of basketball. Is that. My son's
Speaker 2: not a sports fan. He likes Steph Curry because he
Speaker 2: feels like, oh, I could do that. I'm not. I'm
Speaker 2: not that huge. Steve Nash had a wildly entertaining game.
Speaker 2: He wasn't a dunk machine. I didn't think as a
Speaker 2: kid growing up, Bob Lanier was fascinating. This game didn't
Speaker 2: work for me. So the truth is basketball's history. The
Speaker 2: WNBA should take a deep breath and realize basketball's history
Speaker 2: is best score. Alex English led the eighties in scoring
Speaker 2: in the NBA. Alex English. There have been so many players.
Speaker 2: Kiki Vandaway, I don't remember a basket. He just never missed.
Speaker 2: But there are players that are just aunt is dynamic
Speaker 2: and fascinating. Kobe was fascinating, but a lot of the
Speaker 2: bigs like and that's something we just have to be
Speaker 2: honest about. Russell Westbrook's game. I've said this before. In
Speaker 2: his prime, I had a pay to watch him play.
Speaker 2: He couldn't shoot. I didn't love his handles, but sweet
Speaker 2: mother of vertical jump, the guy was like it was
Speaker 2: popcorn in a hot skillet. He was flying through the air.
Speaker 2: So the NBA is so caught up on Well, she's
Speaker 2: the leading scorer. People like different and no other woman
Speaker 2: shot thirty three footers. It's that simple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they like what they like.
Speaker 1: Not even Logan Roy could make Asia Wilson the biggest
Speaker 1: sneaker saleswoman in basketball, and it's no distraction from her game.
Speaker 1: She's excellent, But she's somebody, especially in the time story
Speaker 1: when she did an event with the two K video game,
Speaker 1: who's just complaining about the lack of attention she's gotten
Speaker 1: and how it's not in accordance and it's not at
Speaker 1: the level it should be at and it's look, life
Speaker 1: to a certain degree is not fair, and that's actually
Speaker 1: what makes basketball sort of fascinating to me. That's why
Speaker 1: I wrote the Steph Curry article in twenty sixteen. There's
Speaker 1: this ineffable charisma of stardom, of superstardom that you just
Speaker 1: know it when you see it, and we're not always
Speaker 1: sure about all the elements you need for it to
Speaker 1: happen and for you to really pop in the way
Speaker 1: that Michael Jordan did in the way that Alan Iverson did,
Speaker 1: in a totally different way, in the way that Steph
Speaker 1: Curry did. And the people who do it are worth
Speaker 1: billions of dollars to the league and to these sneaker companies.
Speaker 1: And then there are players who are effectively at the
Speaker 1: same tier or level that just can't and just don't
Speaker 1: and there's just something human about it, and it just
Speaker 1: is what it is, and you're just going to make
Speaker 1: yourself miserable trying to figure out how it ought to
Speaker 1: be and change reality.
Speaker 2: Ethan Strauss his podcast is House of Strauss. He's got
Speaker 2: a wide variety of guests. He is a podcaster with dexterity.
Speaker 2: He can talk business, he can talk sports, he can
Speaker 2: talk media. You and Glass Piegle get all. You know.
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite You guys get into the
Speaker 2: into the weeds on stuff, which I'm completely fascinated by,
Speaker 2: and you do all this amazing homework and I just
Speaker 2: want you to know I don't know the download numbers,
Speaker 2: but all that all that wonky media stuff for a
Speaker 2: guy that's been in that probably too long, I find fascinating.
Speaker 1: Buddy, Oh, I really appreciate that. And thanks so much
Speaker 1: for all the kind words. And this has been fantastic.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Colin.
Speaker 3: The volume