Speaker 1: Miles. Hello, McNamara, hello, hello, how are you, Daric Sherwood?
Speaker 1: With this fake British accent, it's eventually the secret is
Speaker 1: going to come out and people are gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: we were at least two or three episodes into my
Speaker 1: tenure before I knew you were from England. That was
Speaker 1: the greatest acting of all. Yeah, because you stayed in
Speaker 1: character all day and you guys never invited me to
Speaker 1: socialize and party, so I never were found out, like
Speaker 1: the smoking, drinking, dumb with the with the with the literally,
Speaker 1: the first time you did it, I said you do
Speaker 1: a great British accent. Is it need? The Americans aren't
Speaker 1: as good on the British accent as the Brits are
Speaker 1: on the English and it turned out that that to
Speaker 1: what was true and I was the last to know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm very sorry. Well done, well done, I say,
Speaker 1: you're you're a true pro at least you were then.
Speaker 1: Since then it's a night. How are you, lady, look
Speaker 1: at you. Good last is for good news takes. Oh
Speaker 1: my God, the thank you. It's so good to see you.
Speaker 1: We you know, when we started this podcast, you were
Speaker 1: obviously right there at the top of our list. We
Speaker 1: couldn't have couldn't have done this without you. So thank
Speaker 1: you for Oh my goodness. Well, I pressure is on then,
Speaker 1: for I I need some new jokes, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to visit the other realm for
Speaker 1: some new material. The disagree. It was. It was like
Speaker 1: number one question on my list to be like, we're
Speaker 1: talking to an Oscar winner. That's that's what's happening right now.
Speaker 1: We're talking to an Oscar winner, your first award winning guest. Miles.
Speaker 1: All right, am I? Yeah, okay, well, I hope not
Speaker 1: the last. I hope the standard tie. Guys, there we go. Well,
Speaker 1: you've certainly raised our standards quite a bit. Unbelievable, unbelievable, miles.
Speaker 1: Why don't we start with your background, your history, how
Speaker 1: you got involved in the entertainment industry, and then we'll
Speaker 1: move on to some more shadow into stuff later on.
Speaker 1: But tell us a little about you, tell the audience
Speaker 1: about you. How did you dive in? Well, my name
Speaker 1: Miles Dale. I'm a producer and overnight sensation after thirty
Speaker 1: five years in the business. Um, I got my start
Speaker 1: as a production assistant. I live in Toronto, I've continued
Speaker 1: to mostly work in Toronto, but you know, we go
Speaker 1: other places and you know, for the last ten years
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate to of a great partner by the
Speaker 1: name of Germo del Toro, and we've made some what
Speaker 1: I considered to be a memoral thing, memorable things together
Speaker 1: and during that time period in you know, the summer
Speaker 1: of love, the summer of two thousand fifteen, I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to be able to hang with you guys
Speaker 1: and come and hopefully bring a resting heart rate to
Speaker 1: Um the first season of the show, which was it
Speaker 1: was a great summer. I gotta say. I had a
Speaker 1: great time. It was a lot of fun. We were
Speaker 1: so lucky to have you. I think we yeah, I
Speaker 1: was going to say we were very lucky to have
Speaker 1: experienced that the way we did, but you came on
Speaker 1: right at a point where we were getting into kind
Speaker 1: of the thick of a lot of pivotal episodes of
Speaker 1: shadow hunters and directed three of the most iconic episodes
Speaker 1: of season one. Well, it's funny because, yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: know a whole lot about the show and I got
Speaker 1: a call to say, Hey, you know, would you be
Speaker 1: interested in doing this coming on as the producing director.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had always been a producer and
Speaker 1: at some point in my life, pretty early, I was
Speaker 1: like a baby line producer. I was maybe thirty. On
Speaker 1: Friday the thirteenth then one of the directors said to me,
Speaker 1: you know, you should really direct and I said to him,
Speaker 1: you know, that is so nice of you to say that.
Speaker 1: You think that I have like the tools and the
Speaker 1: skill set to to be a director. He said no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you need director empathy, like you need to know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about instead of just looking at your watch
Speaker 1: and saying it's time to go home and not knowing
Speaker 1: the coverage and all that. And so I kind of
Speaker 1: took that to heart because other producers had said to
Speaker 1: me even earlier in my twenties and I was just
Speaker 1: sort of breaking in that it's important for Um, you know,
Speaker 1: any producer, to sort of not necessarily to do every job,
Speaker 1: although it's helpful, but to understand every job so you
Speaker 1: understand the value of things like if you spend time
Speaker 1: in the editing room, you know how editing works. If
Speaker 1: you spend time in wardrobe, you know what's important about
Speaker 1: costumes or hair or makeup or or props. or or
Speaker 1: production design. So you know, I asked a lot of
Speaker 1: questions of those people and, of course, working with directors,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'm gonna go direct something. And so
Speaker 1: I think the first show I was about thirtyes show
Speaker 1: called top cops, and I convinced this guy, Sonny Grosso,
Speaker 1: who was the show runner of the French connection cop.
Speaker 1: I was producing the show, line producing the show, and
Speaker 1: I said you gotta let me direct to One, and
Speaker 1: I did and it was fun and great and I
Speaker 1: learned a lot. And then I just kept directing, mostly
Speaker 1: the episodes of my own shows, like on, you know, Robocop,
Speaker 1: and then there was a show called F x and
Speaker 1: some other shows, and then did some other people's shows
Speaker 1: and then we came to the strain that we started
Speaker 1: in Um and I did I started doing, you know,
Speaker 1: episodes of that. You know, as you guys know, sometimes
Speaker 1: with a with a familiar face who knows what's happening,
Speaker 1: what you know, every line of what every character has
Speaker 1: said and your character and your character as opposed to
Speaker 1: the guy or the lady or the person who comes
Speaker 1: in for three weeks and is like not necessarily a
Speaker 1: journeyman director, but somebody who may not have the full
Speaker 1: context of of of the show. So I always felt
Speaker 1: directing on my own shows. It was it was fun
Speaker 1: and I thought the cast of appreciated it. Um and
Speaker 1: and it just kind of made me better. So we
Speaker 1: had finished the I think it was the second season
Speaker 1: of the strain and I got this call to come
Speaker 1: up with you guys and I quickly familiarized I think
Speaker 1: you were on show five at the time, and then
Speaker 1: I directed seven, ten and then thirteen, which was the
Speaker 1: season finale, where, as we all now know, Um Jay's
Speaker 1: takes a potential turn to the dark side and hops
Speaker 1: on that that boat, that crazy boat, that's drone that
Speaker 1: I had to talk John Carmody intogether after promising my firstborn. Um.
Speaker 1: But so I got up to speed pretty quickly and
Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't read the book, so I got
Speaker 1: the mythology going and really, you know, the first season
Speaker 1: is always a discovery process. And Yeah, and and you know,
Speaker 1: you're finding levels, you're finding character, you're finding chemistry, you're
Speaker 1: finding the look of the show, Um and and it's
Speaker 1: the first season is seldom the best because you're really,
Speaker 1: you know, finding what works and what doesn't. And and
Speaker 1: so I really enjoyed that part of it and I
Speaker 1: have to say, having normally, you know, producing shows that
Speaker 1: I might also be a producing director on. I love
Speaker 1: not having all those other responsibilities and not even though
Speaker 1: I was cognizant of the money and the time and everything,
Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about it. You know, all
Speaker 1: I had to worry about was was, you know, the
Speaker 1: you know, the script and the shots and the and
Speaker 1: all that, and it was a really kind of a
Speaker 1: wonderful it was a fun summer. It is, it was
Speaker 1: it really well. People should understand, I think about especially
Speaker 1: line producing is a is a big one. Like I
Speaker 1: have learned that as soon as the line producer walks on,
Speaker 1: set ships up like something's up, like something. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like we're running out of time or we're running out
Speaker 1: of money and we gotta, we gotta Stop Moving, and
Speaker 1: it just like yeah, you see them coming from a
Speaker 1: distance and like Oh, remember, Greg would be rolling in
Speaker 1: and I'm like Greg, Savior Bread, like you're saying my
Speaker 1: song brother. I know, I know where you live, of
Speaker 1: but but you know, I we got it. All the
Speaker 1: reason we don't have to say you guys were so great, though,
Speaker 1: because you know, you were you were really eager, you know,
Speaker 1: and you you had great chemistry and you were friendly
Speaker 1: with each other and you committed to the material and
Speaker 1: you knew your lines and you knew the physical stuff.
Speaker 1: So I gotta tell you, that makes it so much easier,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, because those were kind of challenging days,
Speaker 1: like a lot of what we were doing with you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's out in the seely forest with those crazy
Speaker 1: candles and lightning storm or whatever. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: helpful to be able to say, guys, this is what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do, this is how we're going to approach it,
Speaker 1: and you're always just so Um uh, you know, willing
Speaker 1: to to take that journey. So it was fun for me. Look,
Speaker 1: the whole crazy thing was it's like how many times,
Speaker 1: and I got lucky because I got your first kiss,
Speaker 1: which is pretty awesome, which I looked at it again
Speaker 1: and it's so funny with the way this rock video
Speaker 1: music crashes in on the kiss and and Matt and
Speaker 1: Emerald just had for hallway right. It was so funny
Speaker 1: and the circling canvras moments after you had stabbed, you know, Jason,
Speaker 1: the Gut and then, you know, he really the monster
Speaker 1: was looking like he was getting going for a kiss too,
Speaker 1: you know, but that was pretty hilarious. And then, of course,
Speaker 1: in the next episode, number ten, uh, you know, Major Arcanada,
Speaker 1: we get to go to the other world where you
Speaker 1: guys get to kiss again, but not in you know
Speaker 1: where where clary is like, what's going on here? And
Speaker 1: I think I'm liking it, but the Seeley guy warned
Speaker 1: me that things could get carried away. The tingling that
Speaker 1: I'm feeling is me getting carried away. I'm sorry, is
Speaker 1: this PG or Pek adult talk? There was tingling. So, anyway,
Speaker 1: that was that was pretty funny, that whole going into
Speaker 1: that world and and you know Alice in Wonderland, which
Speaker 1: was like a nice kind of Disney thing. Remember, we
Speaker 1: had this crazy machine at that party. Yeah, the photo
Speaker 1: both the photo booth. Yeah, would have that at the
Speaker 1: rap party, not just on set. I thought that that
Speaker 1: was a real mistake on behalf of production. Anyway, uh,
Speaker 1: we needed for reshoots at the end of the season,
Speaker 1: which there was real world kissing and then there was
Speaker 1: fake world kissing and then there was de materializing in
Speaker 1: the closet face to face with that whole thing. And
Speaker 1: so I just remember all that fun kind of sexual
Speaker 1: tension between your two characters, which was great, you know,
Speaker 1: and then and then the end, like the big sacrifice
Speaker 1: that that that Jason makes at the end to go
Speaker 1: off with that time. So I I really thought I
Speaker 1: got some juicy shows. Yeah, yeah, and and I you know,
Speaker 1: I hope we made the most of them well. So
Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna say. You know what's interesting
Speaker 1: about about when you get something that you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we have three episodes that are actually quite prominent in
Speaker 1: the story on paper, is then it's sort of then
Speaker 1: there is a gauntlet laid down on the director, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of audience members don't necessarily see
Speaker 1: that unless you're in the sort of you know, even
Speaker 1: the Guilliamo or or the Tarantino level, where like well,
Speaker 1: this is this is a Tarantino movie or this is
Speaker 1: a Guilliamo movie, and you're like we are expecting a
Speaker 1: very specific type of thing from this. But that responsibility
Speaker 1: always comes to the director, no matter who you are
Speaker 1: or what, whether it's a show or a movie or
Speaker 1: whatever it is, a lot of that responsibility comes down
Speaker 1: to the director. Um and we have to tip our
Speaker 1: caps to you because you did an amazing job. I
Speaker 1: will tell you a funny story. So I don't think
Speaker 1: I even never told you this. So when we're filming
Speaker 1: episode thirteen, there's a point in Jason gets that he's
Speaker 1: trying to get hold of clary and her phone is
Speaker 1: like off or in a dead zone for whatever reason, Um,
Speaker 1: and you can't do it. So it just takes because Um. So, anyway,
Speaker 1: he takes off running and one of my best friends
Speaker 1: in the world is there on set that day, Alex Kinsey,
Speaker 1: and we do a couple of takes of it and
Speaker 1: I come over and we say yeah, we're done with
Speaker 1: that scene. We're gonna move on. Think Great. I come
Speaker 1: over and Kinsey Goes Hey, man, you're sure you're done
Speaker 1: with that scene, and I'm like yeah, they just said
Speaker 1: we're done with that. When to move on to the
Speaker 1: next thing? He's like are you sure, and I'm like yeah, why?
Speaker 1: And he goes no, that's not think it's not a
Speaker 1: big deal. You just make a funny face when you run,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, who do you mean? Don't make a
Speaker 1: funny face when I run. He's like yeah, you just
Speaker 1: make like a kind of a face. My big deal,
Speaker 1: because it's done. Now. You make a funny face and literally,
Speaker 1: as he's saying, the last face, it was either you
Speaker 1: or Pierre Goes, Hey, don we need one more, and
Speaker 1: I was like wow, I don't know how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this now, like what do I do? So paranoid.
Speaker 1: Either way, neither the funny face nor the face I
Speaker 1: tried to control. Is this like the Tom Cruise Big
Speaker 1: grimace face? I don't know. I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: Either way, it didn't end up in the show because
Speaker 1: this when you were running in the studio, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: back of the studio. Yeah, I remember. Your face was
Speaker 1: really yeah, I think we had to fix out with
Speaker 1: visual effects as well. By the way, that's obviously a
Speaker 1: good friend or a guy who likes franking you right there.
Speaker 1: He's a good friend, for sure. That's both. That's Alex Kinsey,
Speaker 1: who wrote the music for our podcast. Good, a great
Speaker 1: friend would have told me off to take one. That's
Speaker 1: what he would have done. He would have told me
Speaker 1: pulling you along here. Yeah, well, well, thank you for
Speaker 1: not sharing that, but I'm sure that we, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that for us it was focused or something trivial and
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with your otherwise impeccable performance. Well,
Speaker 1: you're just so committed. I'm going. I'm going, yeah, yeah, really,
Speaker 1: go for it. Whatever's happening? The Tom Cruise run too? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: got the Tom Cruise, that thing. Yeah, I now like
Speaker 1: I'm now like super paranoid about it. I'm at the
Speaker 1: gym today on the treadmoon and I'm like, what's my
Speaker 1: face looked like? I have no idea. I need to
Speaker 1: take this out. I think you should tell your trainer
Speaker 1: I want to do. Running in front of a mirror
Speaker 1: from my right has to be in front of America
Speaker 1: and recording like like with your golf swing. Get Him
Speaker 1: never and that's gonna get me a great reputation as
Speaker 1: an active by the way, every time I go to
Speaker 1: a trainer, I'm like recording from mirror here. That's what
Speaker 1: I need, my running face. That what I'm working out
Speaker 1: in the gym with all the lights around him. We
Speaker 1: ignore him, we just let him do it, mugged and running,
Speaker 1: mugged and running surrenders. Yeah, but that was that was
Speaker 1: a fun show. And you know what was fun about
Speaker 1: every one of those shows was that they were all
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, different, you know, when we went
Speaker 1: into that. I loved the second one where we went
Speaker 1: into that other world through the portal and it was
Speaker 1: a whole different thing and and whole you know, it
Speaker 1: gave you guys a chance to stretch out in these
Speaker 1: sort of other, you know, personas that that that might
Speaker 1: have been used. So I thought that that was, you know,
Speaker 1: imaginatively written. And I will say back to your comment,
Speaker 1: Tom about it all being in hand to the director.
Speaker 1: I felt lucky, you know Ed, you know who was
Speaker 1: the show runner in the first season, pretty much, you know,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say he left us alone, but more than
Speaker 1: usual because having been on the other side of all
Speaker 1: kinds of serious television, oftentimes the show runners and and
Speaker 1: the writers are on top of you a lot more,
Speaker 1: as you guys know, and there isn't that same level
Speaker 1: of freedom and and sometimes you're in a box and
Speaker 1: sometimes you're not. But I certainly felt having having been,
Speaker 1: you know, on the other side of it, and we
Speaker 1: always try to run our shows, you know, whether it
Speaker 1: was the the strain or certainly this recent show that
Speaker 1: we did in Anthology, as as really director friendly and
Speaker 1: giving giving a bit more leeway to the directors to
Speaker 1: see what you can find and if someone goes off piece,
Speaker 1: as happens from time to time, you correct, but at
Speaker 1: least you have a chance to see what they've got
Speaker 1: in mind and what they can bring. You know, you know.
Speaker 1: So yes, it'll be within the the general confines of
Speaker 1: the visual style. But, like with our show, and again
Speaker 1: talk talk about episode ten, like that show called for
Speaker 1: a very different visual style. So I remember we shot
Speaker 1: it differently, we did the color differently, Um, some of
Speaker 1: the transitions were different, uh, you know, where it wanted
Speaker 1: to feel like a different Um, you know, world. So
Speaker 1: it's nice to be able to have that freedom and
Speaker 1: certainly I felt that when we were doing shows well
Speaker 1: as in to your point, miles, to a lot of that.
Speaker 1: That is part of the magic of shadow hunters and
Speaker 1: of how that production was run, and and a lot
Speaker 1: of that's stud to folks like you. You let every
Speaker 1: department do their job and have their own creative space
Speaker 1: and it became such a collaborative set because everyone there
Speaker 1: was a clear vision, but everyone was allowed freedom within
Speaker 1: that vision to bring their interpretation of it and work
Speaker 1: together to do so, and it created from the actors
Speaker 1: to the script to the production design and the costumes
Speaker 1: and everything this world where when we have an episode
Speaker 1: and go okay, we know our world, now let's turn
Speaker 1: it on its head and do everything different, everyone gets
Speaker 1: excited all over again because you get to have that
Speaker 1: sort of creative impetus all over and and you know.
Speaker 1: So that's credit to you to allowing us all to
Speaker 1: kind of do that. Well, it starts on the page.
Speaker 1: It always starts on the page. But but the good
Speaker 1: news is the source material was great. Um the writers,
Speaker 1: I think, adapted it really well and it and it
Speaker 1: gave us a great kind of springboard to say, okay,
Speaker 1: what can we do visually? Well, there's a lot of opportunity,
Speaker 1: you know, for visuals, you know, in terms of some
Speaker 1: of the creatures, like I was looking at again, the
Speaker 1: little spider guys that were chasing you through the tunnels.
Speaker 1: Call but remember that, because it was a shock school.
Speaker 1: It was enough bool, do you remember? That's what we
Speaker 1: had on the day, was enough Bo and that was
Speaker 1: my first experience that h having to I've had experiences
Speaker 1: before I have to imagine something that isn't there. Is there,
Speaker 1: but I've never had to imagine something that is there
Speaker 1: is something else there. Had that before. I was watching
Speaker 1: again too. I don't know if you remember the seely
Speaker 1: dude where he's doing his little yeah, yeah, he he
Speaker 1: was doing that old thing and I just remember we're
Speaker 1: standing there in the woods and if everyone look and
Speaker 1: saw this guy going like, you know, like like like somebody,
Speaker 1: like the mushrooms are kicking in. You know. It was
Speaker 1: one of those things where, you know, you look at
Speaker 1: it with all the swirly twinkle and it looks pretty good,
Speaker 1: but it was I think I probably said him. Look,
Speaker 1: I know this feels ridiculous at this moment, but you'll
Speaker 1: thank US later. Yeahs a common occurrence on shadow hunters.
Speaker 1: I mean a few episodes prior to you coming on,
Speaker 1: we had that our first big wear. We'll fight in
Speaker 1: all the shipping containers, and that was Pierre running around
Speaker 1: with the tennis ball and a stick, going another over here,
Speaker 1: another down here and there's another one over here and
Speaker 1: we're all trying to, you know, keep straight face. Come in.
Speaker 1: He does love his sensibles. We had a couple of
Speaker 1: demons come in that were just very in shape stunt
Speaker 1: people in head to Toe Green Morph suits with sort
Speaker 1: of sticks again for like eyeline and whatever, and I'm
Speaker 1: just sort of jealously looking at ABS through this like
Speaker 1: this skin tight suit, like it's this is actually making
Speaker 1: this very difficult to focus for me. Actually, if you
Speaker 1: could have had someone who was in medium shape, that
Speaker 1: would have been great, but you you felt. You can
Speaker 1: imagine how I felt. I'll get your next buddy. So,
Speaker 1: but you do, do, you do do. It's nine o'clock
Speaker 1: here and I'm childish and I'm going to let that
Speaker 1: joke slide. I appreciate that. Thanks very much. Um, you
Speaker 1: do a lot of supernatural work, or or other worldly work,
Speaker 1: I guess, with obviously the shape of water. Congratulations again. Um,
Speaker 1: what do you think it is that draws you to
Speaker 1: that sort of I mean, it's obviously your partnership with GM,
Speaker 1: but like what? What is it that you find so
Speaker 1: entrancing about things like shadow hunters, things like the shape
Speaker 1: of water, where there is this fantastical feel to them? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it just takes you to to other worlds
Speaker 1: and certainly Um, you know you can deal with things,
Speaker 1: you know, metaphorically and Algoric Ley, which sometimes is Um,
Speaker 1: more interesting than straight up the Middle Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just generally attracted to good material, even though you
Speaker 1: know a lot of the stuff that I've done with guerremo,
Speaker 1: from Mama to the strain to shape, Um, I'm just
Speaker 1: drawn to good material, good story and good storytelling. But
Speaker 1: I think it gives you that kind of material, just
Speaker 1: gives you the ability to come at it from a
Speaker 1: different angle, say some things in a different way. I mean, ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of these things are thematically similar,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of their their good versus evil.
Speaker 1: Um Uh. You know, the things that they're they're trying
Speaker 1: to say things, you know, right from wrong, all those things,
Speaker 1: human relationships and how we see them. And you know,
Speaker 1: for shadow hunters it was just it was a different
Speaker 1: kind of challenge. You guys as young adults growing up,
Speaker 1: and it was not really dissimilar to the kinds of
Speaker 1: of challenges that you know, teens and young adults face today.
Speaker 1: It's just a different venue, you know. So so we
Speaker 1: was slightly higher stakes. I know that sounds incredibly simplistic,
Speaker 1: but really I think that for for an audience it's
Speaker 1: it's relatable in a way because it was. It's the relationships,
Speaker 1: it's the romance, it's the parental issues that you have.
Speaker 1: I mean you could, you could think about about Valentine
Speaker 1: and Jocelyn essentially as just, you know, as a kid,
Speaker 1: as a UH, if you're a child of divorced parents,
Speaker 1: you know, you can actually relate to that, to you know,
Speaker 1: taking sides Um uh within a in a broken home.
Speaker 1: So you know, really I think you could look at
Speaker 1: some of those things and just find anyone, certainly of
Speaker 1: of a younger age, can find something to relate to
Speaker 1: in there. And I think it's the same with the
Speaker 1: shape of water. I mean it just tells a story about,
Speaker 1: you know, the people who are are in power, who
Speaker 1: are inherently sort of corrupt, and the people who are
Speaker 1: underserved and without agency and without voice, whether you know
Speaker 1: it's a mute cleaning lady or a gay man, Richard's character, uh,
Speaker 1: and and and how they see the world and how
Speaker 1: how they treat the world and how the world treats them.
Speaker 1: So in a way a lot of it comes down to,
Speaker 1: you know, the basics of Um, those kinds of themes
Speaker 1: of human behavior and emotions and and everything else, and
Speaker 1: it's just the venue that we set them in. So
Speaker 1: for me, if it's if it's an inventive construction. That way, uh,
Speaker 1: something new that we haven't maybe seen before or or different,
Speaker 1: or just a story well told that that resonates. That's
Speaker 1: kind of the thing that draws me absolutely and we
Speaker 1: talk about that a lot on the show. You know,
Speaker 1: we've had a chance to go all over the world
Speaker 1: and do comic Con's and meet the shadow famine person
Speaker 1: and all of this, and that is something that always
Speaker 1: strikes people. As you know, we tell the story about
Speaker 1: Vampires and werewolves and shadow hunters and yet they're going
Speaker 1: through such human things. It gives people a chance to
Speaker 1: connect and relate and sort of look at their own
Speaker 1: lives objectively for the first time, sometimes, UM, and see
Speaker 1: other perspectives as well, and that's, uh, I think that's,
Speaker 1: you know, the point of what we do. We want
Speaker 1: to just tell stories and hold that mirror up to
Speaker 1: the human experience and, you know, make a couple's first
Speaker 1: kiss look like a rock music video sometimes. Speaking of that,
Speaker 1: we would be remissed if we didn't talk more about this,
Speaker 1: because cat and I have talked about this length at
Speaker 1: every comic con. It's the question we get asked. What
Speaker 1: is it like filming a kiss, especially a kiss. So
Speaker 1: sort of iconic already in the story lines. My aunts
Speaker 1: is always the same. It's not as romantic as you think.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people in this because we what
Speaker 1: we remember. I kind of I have spoken about this.
Speaker 1: We remember a lot of is is the angles of
Speaker 1: the cameras being a certain way, so we would be
Speaker 1: mid makeout and here, okay, in turn and we'd have
Speaker 1: to heads the other way, right, your so romantic. Yeah, yeah, look,
Speaker 1: it's well, look, imagine sex then. I mean, I've got
Speaker 1: this Netflix series sex life that's on now where. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my show. But so, I mean you talk about
Speaker 1: technical Um, that can get very and you know with
Speaker 1: intimacy coordinators now. So now you should talk about that,
Speaker 1: because this is this is a sort of brave new world.
Speaker 1: I've now had them. I've had an intimacy coordinator twice now. Um,
Speaker 1: and there for anyone who doesn't know that, their job
Speaker 1: is to provide basically a safe talking space when you're
Speaker 1: performing something intimate with a partner or even sometimes without
Speaker 1: a partner. It's it's to provide a safe space for
Speaker 1: the performer and for everyone else on set to make
Speaker 1: sure that they feel comfortable with everything that's going on,
Speaker 1: basically is that job. But this didn't exist five years ago,
Speaker 1: six years ago, this just it wasn't a thing, it
Speaker 1: was just and it's now sort of a safety protocol.
Speaker 1: It's really opposed me to when it came in, I
Speaker 1: mean post chadow hunters, you know. So it was a
Speaker 1: needed and rightly so. Look, I think that over the
Speaker 1: years some people have have taken liberties, whether it be
Speaker 1: directors or producers or, you know, actors, where the power
Speaker 1: dynamic may have been favor of an older male star
Speaker 1: who was working with a younger you know. I mean
Speaker 1: last tango in Paris, you know, famously many things over
Speaker 1: the years. But Um, you know, I think it's a
Speaker 1: welcome addition and I think as performers, you guys would
Speaker 1: know better than me, uh, to be able to at
Speaker 1: least say, Hey, you know, here's how I feel about
Speaker 1: this and you know, if he could, you know, put
Speaker 1: his hand here instead of here, I'd be more comfortable.
Speaker 1: And the best in TVC coordinator are certainly worth their
Speaker 1: weight in gold because they they are additive, uh, they're
Speaker 1: helpful communicating and they don't get in the way. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you'll get the power hungry one. That's all sort
Speaker 1: of driving it. And and and and, you know, I've
Speaker 1: I've had great experiences and I've had experiences that have
Speaker 1: not been as good. But I think for for for
Speaker 1: you guys it, it can't be a bad thing. Um,
Speaker 1: because if everything's fine, it's like, you know, we did
Speaker 1: a scene with, you know, Bradley Cooper and Toni Collette
Speaker 1: on the last movie and there was going to be
Speaker 1: some kissing in the SNATA. They're both very experienced actors
Speaker 1: at the top of their game, and I offered them
Speaker 1: both and they just said, yeah, I know, we're fine, right. So, um,
Speaker 1: but it depends. That's not always the situation. And and
Speaker 1: and with UH, certainly with younger people who are less
Speaker 1: experienced in Um this. I think it's going to be,
Speaker 1: you know, helpful, because you never know what's going to happen, Um,
Speaker 1: and and you don't want it to get weird or
Speaker 1: or be you know, derail or see create relationship issues.
Speaker 1: So look, I I felt like it was perfectly natural.
Speaker 1: You guys are both very kissable, so asking me to
Speaker 1: kiss was just easy to do. Said, I can see this,
Speaker 1: I can imagine this in my head. So action, you know, there. Also,
Speaker 1: there comes with a comfortability and cat and I on
Speaker 1: this show talk a lot about safety and the feeling
Speaker 1: of safety, Um, which not only comes from, you know,
Speaker 1: cat and EZE dynamic with each other, but also from
Speaker 1: people like you, from people like Pierre, from the crew
Speaker 1: that we have around us who do make us feel
Speaker 1: safe and who makes us feel seen and heard, Um,
Speaker 1: if we do have any grievances, because you're right, like
Speaker 1: if there if there is like, you know, a layering
Speaker 1: or if there's any sort of like weirdness on set,
Speaker 1: then it does make those situations a little uncomfortable. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, it comes from the head and you
Speaker 1: were the captain of the ship when we were doing
Speaker 1: that and it was our first big one and it
Speaker 1: was comfortable, it did feel safe, and there's nothing more
Speaker 1: I can say about that. That's the that's that's that's
Speaker 1: really the kind of the leadership responsibility and and and
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully everybody is in that Um space. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: an actor, and this is testing the P G thirteen
Speaker 1: of it all, but an actor who shall remain nameless
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, he used to go into
Speaker 1: those scenes pre intimacy and he would say to the
Speaker 1: lady that he was in the scene where he said,
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know if something happens
Speaker 1: down there, it's nothing personal, and if nothing happens down there,
Speaker 1: it's nothing personal, personal and that's what the version of
Speaker 1: an intimacy coordinator in the nineties. And we need you
Speaker 1: to sign here, here and here. So so look like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, it's it's it's it's better now and and
Speaker 1: and we didn't have that, you know, too too much
Speaker 1: of that going on. Look, I thought that the show
Speaker 1: was also a little bit, if not ahead of its time,
Speaker 1: certainly progressive in them the story between Matt and Harry's characters,
Speaker 1: when I thought it really dealt we dealt with that,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of head on, which was Nice, you know,
Speaker 1: at the time when not not everybody was doing that.
Speaker 1: So I really felt like, you know, everything was pretty
Speaker 1: organic in that way. And as a as a guy
Speaker 1: for young adults, I thought it was kind of pretty
Speaker 1: healthy in the relationship department in terms of sort of
Speaker 1: truthfully expressing, you know, the kinds of things that are
Speaker 1: that are going on in those people's lives. And again,
Speaker 1: maybe some L G B T Q kids who were
Speaker 1: out there watched the show and I thought, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: this is these guys, these these superheroes. We've had them
Speaker 1: from yeah, we heard a lot, and that was five
Speaker 1: years ahead of the first marble gay character. You know exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's so lovely about it is that we, you know,
Speaker 1: we get to do what we love for a living.
Speaker 1: We get to playmates believe and tell stories and do
Speaker 1: all of this. But the fact that it means something
Speaker 1: to someone and it can provide some sort of solace
Speaker 1: or answer or maybe just even a new perspective to
Speaker 1: someone out there in the world. It's it's it's the
Speaker 1: biggest gift and it's the most humbling thing. I think
Speaker 1: about the show and why we've all stayed so connected
Speaker 1: and why the shadow fan is what it is and
Speaker 1: and we've all kind of the show is stuck with
Speaker 1: so many of us for a lot of reasons. Well,
Speaker 1: that's great that you hear that from the fans at
Speaker 1: the at the fan events, because you know it means
Speaker 1: that you really did have an effect and you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, entertainment is one thing, um,
Speaker 1: but being able to move people and and and have
Speaker 1: stories that resonate with an audience just beyond entertainment value.
Speaker 1: I think is is something that's pretty noble, you know,
Speaker 1: and and if you can, if you can do that,
Speaker 1: you're doing, you know, something more than than than just
Speaker 1: entertainment value. So so I I really, you know, respected
Speaker 1: the show and it's writing, you know, for that part
Speaker 1: of it. But you have to establish so many of
Speaker 1: the kind of pivotal moments of season one, but also
Speaker 1: parts of our world. The first time we went to
Speaker 1: the seely court was in episode ten. In the first
Speaker 1: time it was right. It was like they're probably illegal
Speaker 1: by now. So and do you remember the storm that day?
Speaker 1: There was a crazy storm too. It was like lightning.
Speaker 1: I think he had a tree about. So I actually
Speaker 1: know this because we were so my family was there,
Speaker 1: my mom, my Stepdad and my little brother were there
Speaker 1: and my Stepdad's a big rugby playing guy, you know,
Speaker 1: big tough dude Um, and comes rushing into my trailer
Speaker 1: like she white and I'm like what's going on and
Speaker 1: he was like lightning just nearly killed me and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if it nearly killed you.
Speaker 1: Sure enough, it was like twenty feet away, just like
Speaker 1: throw with the ground. It was. It was. It was
Speaker 1: killing lightning for sure. So No, I had said to
Speaker 1: the special effects guys, we're looking to do something magical
Speaker 1: in the seeing glade. So the guy showed me a
Speaker 1: couple of things and I was that legal. Is that legal? Goes? Well,
Speaker 1: this is legal for now. So and it was these
Speaker 1: Candida handals and these candles, and you remember, they it
Speaker 1: created like it was like the worst version of pollen,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was great. And you know now
Speaker 1: you would just do that with visual effects, you know,
Speaker 1: without a doubt, and it would be an easy cycle.
Speaker 1: But you know, this was seven years ago now. So
Speaker 1: so I remember there there was like an army of
Speaker 1: like four or five dudes, you know, standing in the
Speaker 1: and yeah, and the bands exactly playing operators just you know,
Speaker 1: it look great. Listen, season two we ended up using
Speaker 1: like pussy willows, like handfuls and handfuls of these like Dandelion.
Speaker 1: You can't say that anymore. The name of the flower
Speaker 1: get in real trouble. The name of the flower, like
Speaker 1: Little Dandelion type things. And they just blew bags and
Speaker 1: bags and bags of them into the room and we're
Speaker 1: doing these like screaming scenes and whatever, and I was
Speaker 1: playing inhaling. Yeah, I was blowing things out of my
Speaker 1: nose for days. It was trendous. I would take your
Speaker 1: art guys, that's true, but they were also like glitter
Speaker 1: and they never went away. You know, ten episodes later
Speaker 1: we were just we would find them in your ear
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, some way you didn't want them
Speaker 1: to be. There's your PG thirteam. There's always there's always
Speaker 1: that element on set. It just depends on the set
Speaker 1: whether it's you snow candles or I just I just
Speaker 1: did a Western pilot and dust, oh my gosh, dust everywhere. Yeah, Hey, look,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's what we do. We make magic. So,
Speaker 1: you know, the guys tried a few things and it
Speaker 1: looked great. Again, I watched that again a little while
Speaker 1: ago and and it looks great and it does like
Speaker 1: a different place, you know. So you know, I I
Speaker 1: credit the special effects guys with staying with something Um
Speaker 1: that is only semi harmful. Well, okay, so as a director,
Speaker 1: how do you sort of not the semi harmful aspect
Speaker 1: of it, but what goes into making those sort of decisions?
Speaker 1: Because obviously we live in a world today we're practical
Speaker 1: and special effects there's that are practical and visual effects.
Speaker 1: Rather there's the great debate and so where. How do
Speaker 1: you go about kind of making those choices and picking
Speaker 1: and choosing your moments as a director? Right? Well, I'm
Speaker 1: joking about the semi harmful because you know, there are
Speaker 1: there are very straight rules that we talk about. So,
Speaker 1: you know, there used to be various kinds of of
Speaker 1: water based, oil based smokes that are gone. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: spectral smoke, which has gone water based smoke now is
Speaker 1: is pretty easy. So we look at the MSD s
Speaker 1: of the you know, the the the rules and what
Speaker 1: the what the government health organizations say, and generally you
Speaker 1: know will find something. But I think more and more,
Speaker 1: I have to say, the you know, the tilt has
Speaker 1: gone from practical to the effects. I mean now you know,
Speaker 1: I mean one of the best examples, as an example
Speaker 1: is Um squibs. I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 1: ever had them, but you know these things. You know
Speaker 1: when you get shot, you know they put a new
Speaker 1: shirt on and they've got the squibs on your chest
Speaker 1: and they've got little blood bags in them and you
Speaker 1: go and you know you'll hear the director go and
Speaker 1: your shot one, two, three, and the squibs will go one, two, three,
Speaker 1: and and then okay, cut. Now go back to wardrobe,
Speaker 1: take off your shirt, take off the squibs, reload the squibs,
Speaker 1: reload the wardrobe. Back on the set a half hour later.
Speaker 1: If you do three takes, it's an hour and a half. Now,
Speaker 1: of course you've got it before and after shirt. You
Speaker 1: get shot. Visual Effects Does the hits with the beautiful
Speaker 1: blood spray and now cut. Okay, throw on the after
Speaker 1: shirt and you're done. You know again, we just had
Speaker 1: on nightmare alley there was this pit of snakes. I
Speaker 1: don't know you guys have seen the film, but in in, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't give anything away. Well, well, now give this. Won't
Speaker 1: give much away. So so there's a carnival and there's
Speaker 1: a geek pit and it was like Gama was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I want snakes in the bottom of the geek pit,
Speaker 1: real snakes, and I said, okay, well, Gammon, that's okay,
Speaker 1: but a we've got Paul Anderson. You might know Paul Anderson,
Speaker 1: British fellow from peeky blinders, who's going to be in
Speaker 1: the Geek pit. He might step on one. You might
Speaker 1: get bitten by one. The snakes are incredibly expensive and,
Speaker 1: by the way, they don't move much when it's cold.
Speaker 1: It was cold, so we brought the snakes every one
Speaker 1: day just as a point of really proof for me,
Speaker 1: and they as predicted. Paul was like, I don't know
Speaker 1: about those snakes, and they didn't move, and so it
Speaker 1: was like pack up the snakes. And now you know,
Speaker 1: we see in almost every shot there's like a visual
Speaker 1: effects snake were we threw some rubber snakes in there.
Speaker 1: By the way, if you guys want rubber snakes, I've
Speaker 1: got like a box of so give me a emailing address.
Speaker 1: I'll send up rubber snake Um. But you know, all
Speaker 1: those shots ended up being the effects snakes, whereas back
Speaker 1: in the day it would have been real snakes. So
Speaker 1: so there's there's all kinds of stuff now where there's
Speaker 1: a reason why visual effects is a is a rapidly
Speaker 1: expanding business, and that's because it's just it might be
Speaker 1: a little more expensive, but it saves you time on set.
Speaker 1: Usually there's a safety factor that goes along uh with that.
Speaker 1: So you know, we really learned to embrace it. I
Speaker 1: mean Guillermo was a big, big you know, started as
Speaker 1: a makeup artist and he was a big practical effects
Speaker 1: guy and increasingly, you know, we've been doing a lot
Speaker 1: more with the effects and certainly the final brush strokes.
Speaker 1: Like if you look at the shape of water, you
Speaker 1: know the Creature Uh Doug Jones character had, you know,
Speaker 1: he's got suit on and everything, but all the micro expressions,
Speaker 1: the blinks, the eyebrow raises, the little facial expressions that
Speaker 1: that really are the nuances of the character and and
Speaker 1: and you know how he was sort of feeling at
Speaker 1: a given moment. That was all the effects. So there's
Speaker 1: there's so many applications and it's been nice to be
Speaker 1: able to sort of explore that and grow with the
Speaker 1: business where where you can, you know, start to make
Speaker 1: your own, um decisions about what, what will be better
Speaker 1: or more, Um, uh efficient, time wise, Um, in terms
Speaker 1: of exactly you get more choices as well with a
Speaker 1: lot of it right, like exactly what you were just saying,
Speaker 1: you know, if you put pool in a pit of snakes,
Speaker 1: I know for me is an so there's like there
Speaker 1: are other things that I'm worried about right now other
Speaker 1: than just performing the scene that needs to be performed.
Speaker 1: Like I'm worried about getting bit by a snake. It's
Speaker 1: a real concern that I now have. Or course, of course,
Speaker 1: of course. Well, and also that would probably lead to
Speaker 1: me getting bit. So it's gonna hurt everyone and then
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna love that scenario. I do think there is
Speaker 1: a time for practical effects. I think I think the
Speaker 1: one we're going to see disappear soonest is guns, live
Speaker 1: gun fire. I think live gun fire is gonna is
Speaker 1: a thing of the past. You know, I'll say this.
Speaker 1: There's no reason for practical gun fire at this point.
Speaker 1: I'll actually tell you there's an interesting on this anthology
Speaker 1: series we just did, we had a scene where a
Speaker 1: guy was supposed to fire fully automatic machine gun at
Speaker 1: a creature, at nothing in particular, and everyone was obviously
Speaker 1: very nervous. But in our case it was because it
Speaker 1: was in extreme slow motion and all the case things
Speaker 1: we're going to be flying out of this gun and
Speaker 1: forget about the muzzle flash. But that's one thing. So
Speaker 1: we talked about whether to do it or not, and
Speaker 1: and and we have a great gun wrangler, our Guy Charlie,
Speaker 1: and we decided to do it. You know, obviously we
Speaker 1: cleared the set and everything else, but typically we won't.
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no reason for live gun fire, especially in
Speaker 1: the day. I will say at at night you get
Speaker 1: a little bit of you still do your muzzle flashes,
Speaker 1: but you get a little bit of reflective light on
Speaker 1: the actor's face. Um, but there's really no reason to
Speaker 1: do it. You don't really see and muzzle flash. I
Speaker 1: mean those are three hundred dollar vis effect shots there.
Speaker 1: This is the easiest shots. Literally eight year old could
Speaker 1: do those things. Yeah, because think about it, it's just
Speaker 1: the barrel of the gun for three frames. You've got
Speaker 1: your little star thing that you've already got in the
Speaker 1: machine and you just go and that's it. Like it's
Speaker 1: the simplest thing you could do. So I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I think that, I mean any gun safety is going
Speaker 1: to go up and I think that live gun fire,
Speaker 1: there's a movement right now to just get rid of
Speaker 1: it completely. I don't know that that's going to happen,
Speaker 1: but I mean certainly that will end up, you know,
Speaker 1: being a sort of a climactic or certain transitional moment
Speaker 1: in the history of movie guns. Yeah, it'd be interesting
Speaker 1: to see how it works out. I mean I just
Speaker 1: did an action movie. We had a lot of live
Speaker 1: gun fire and we had an incredible gun wrangler team.
Speaker 1: One of the guys you could like count to the
Speaker 1: number of the rounds from a four fully automatic gun
Speaker 1: and you come back and be like I think you
Speaker 1: fired fifteen and be like now you fired fourteen, but
Speaker 1: the magazine, sure enough, there's one still in there and
Speaker 1: you're like wow, that's mind blowing. So there was never
Speaker 1: a point that I didn't feel safe with them. I
Speaker 1: felt great with them. But the thing I noticed that
Speaker 1: I couldn't get rid of Medum as a human being
Speaker 1: was the blink reaction to every time the gun fires,
Speaker 1: because it's just it's loud and it's a big sort
Speaker 1: of it's an energetic reaction that happens. My character wouldn't
Speaker 1: have blinked. He was an ex navy seal and he's
Speaker 1: a US marshal like he wouldn't have blinked. So I
Speaker 1: don't know how he got around it, because it I
Speaker 1: think they did some sort of clever editing with it,
Speaker 1: but I physically couldn't stop myself from doing that. As
Speaker 1: much time as I spent at the range trying to
Speaker 1: Nix that reaction. I couldn't do it and obviously with
Speaker 1: a vfx shot that wouldn't happen, because you don't get.
Speaker 1: I think people forget that blanks are still as loud
Speaker 1: as bullets, even louder in some cases. Like you know,
Speaker 1: we wear ear protection. Everyone on the crew has to
Speaker 1: have ear protection and when guns are being fired, because
Speaker 1: it's it's loud, it's really dangerously loud. It will do
Speaker 1: some real damage to it. On the other kind of
Speaker 1: funny side is it, you'll get guys who go and
Speaker 1: they shoot machine guns and there'll be no rounds in them.
Speaker 1: It will be effects and you'll see their mouth going.
Speaker 1: Google the same thing. I didn't see with swords and
Speaker 1: my portal because I ended up, you know, doing portals
Speaker 1: and I'll go every time, but try so hard not
Speaker 1: to move my milk. I couldn't. I couldn't note like
Speaker 1: the package cat, you are your own sound effects machine.
Speaker 1: I try I provide me own folly on the day.
Speaker 1: You know, pretty common, pretty common thing I've heard stories of,
Speaker 1: like the spider man underneath the moss going every time
Speaker 1: the sound guys like we can't even see it, like
Speaker 1: there's no reason for you to be doing it if
Speaker 1: it makes you even better and we don't care, don't
Speaker 1: do yeah, that's right. Well, we get to feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, kids playing in the middle of a forest
Speaker 1: with swords and portals and magic all over again. So
Speaker 1: I think, I think sometimes we all just get caught
Speaker 1: up with the swords. You know, that was also my concern,
Speaker 1: just those freaking swords flying around. I mean I heard
Speaker 1: a thing that Mary Elizabeth Wind said on the thing where,
Speaker 1: or on Scott Pilgrim rather, where she got nicked with
Speaker 1: a sword right up here, and it's like even the
Speaker 1: soft swords, you know, and then they had plastic ones.
Speaker 1: But you guys really trained the crap out of yourself.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was it was good and
Speaker 1: you guys were happy to know that. Season two the
Speaker 1: training escalated, as did the swords. So there were no
Speaker 1: more snapping at the hilt swords. There were no more
Speaker 1: like chipped, like bits of plastic and battery going everywhere.
Speaker 1: The caveat there was. They were these very sort of
Speaker 1: impressive looking, like beautifully silver cleaver style weapons. Again in
Speaker 1: the cold, so the very flexible, this sort of one.
Speaker 1: Then in the cold they would sort of almost freeze.
Speaker 1: They would harden. So then when you get hit in
Speaker 1: the finger or whatever, which happens, you're like wow, that
Speaker 1: really yeah. But you know, credit to our to drew
Speaker 1: our set medic, because he would sneak us, you know,
Speaker 1: bags of ice and liquid bandage for all of our
Speaker 1: split knuckles and bruises and everything else, and because, if
Speaker 1: you know, dom and I were in it, we trained
Speaker 1: so hard we wanted to keep fighting and it's just
Speaker 1: if you choose to do your own stunts, that kind
Speaker 1: of thing is just it's an occupational hazard. Really, I
Speaker 1: would have been asking where the season one fisher priced
Speaker 1: swords every time you get naked like. Actually, I didn't
Speaker 1: mind them bring them back. I didn't need them to
Speaker 1: take two with the old sword Gid. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: nice to have the freedom to actually hit the swords together,
Speaker 1: to be able to fully kind of extend all these
Speaker 1: things instead of having to be careful of these fiberglass swords.
Speaker 1: But a real clang clang. Yeah, but then showed because,
Speaker 1: I mean, as you guys know, it doesn't just happen.
Speaker 1: That's all highly choreographed and and there's no like going
Speaker 1: in on the day and just doing it. So I
Speaker 1: was always pretty impressed by that. You know, guns are easy,
Speaker 1: swords are hard. Well, it's all. It's all about safety
Speaker 1: and about training and about, you know, knowing, having the
Speaker 1: knowledge that you need to know and having the team
Speaker 1: around you that will, you know, train you and teach
Speaker 1: you and give you those skills, because half of being
Speaker 1: an actor, as you know, both of you know, is
Speaker 1: learning very quickly how to look as though you're a
Speaker 1: master at something that you know nothing about. And hopefully
Speaker 1: you're learning skills in the project. Yeah, but but what
Speaker 1: a great thing for you guys to do, like earlier
Speaker 1: in your career, is, is is to be able to get
Speaker 1: that done, you know, instead of just uh, you know, yakking.
Speaker 1: It's important because now you know the difference between the
Speaker 1: you know, the pros and the amateurs. You know, when
Speaker 1: you're working with someone who's who's, you know, good rank
Speaker 1: were or a good trainer or a good anything. You
Speaker 1: know the difference. So I feel like, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: the training on that show was actually at a pretty
Speaker 1: high level. Yeah, absolutely, you're so right. Actually, we learned
Speaker 1: a huge amount from shadow hunters, not just the physical elements, but,
Speaker 1: you know, both of us being a sort of the
Speaker 1: infancy of our careers, the things we learned from people
Speaker 1: like yourself, the things we learned from Pierre, from Silik,
Speaker 1: from the A D S, from the hair and makeup departments,
Speaker 1: from costume departments, camera operators. Yeah, everything is that's something
Speaker 1: that shadow hunter has taught me so much by working
Speaker 1: with directors like yourself and and it's it's sort of
Speaker 1: how I've always approached work anyway. But it sort of
Speaker 1: applies to any aspect of our industry and that you
Speaker 1: do all the prep work but inevitably you get to
Speaker 1: set something's going to go wrong, something so it's going
Speaker 1: to be some unknown element. But without that preparedness and without,
Speaker 1: you know, a director like you on hand who knows
Speaker 1: so much and has done all the prep, you're sort
Speaker 1: of lost at sea. But having that flexibility to play
Speaker 1: jazz a little bit with creatives, that wonderful. There's the
Speaker 1: version of of things going wrong, like whether it be
Speaker 1: whether or or something like that, and then there's just
Speaker 1: the version of discovering something better. You know what, what's
Speaker 1: always important to me again is like uh with you,
Speaker 1: and by the way, you guys were very accommodating, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean there there are many actors, who? Who? Who
Speaker 1: are going to challenge every little thing that you say?
Speaker 1: Typically all older actors. Um, Gene Hackman, I'm talking about you, Um,
Speaker 1: and if you uh, or for me to be able
Speaker 1: to give the actor's space to you know, certainly you know,
Speaker 1: question anything in terms of the script, the staging. You know,
Speaker 1: why would I go here and do this? Why would
Speaker 1: I do that? or or or or just the intent
Speaker 1: of anything or a better idea. Like I love that
Speaker 1: part of it and I feel like the actors do too,
Speaker 1: because they just, you know, you feel like you're more,
Speaker 1: you know, a part of it with some meaningful input.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that's exactly it. You feel trusted, you
Speaker 1: feel you feel heard in that moment and even if,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it doesn't go, you know, the way
Speaker 1: you had thought it out in your head, of the
Speaker 1: way you planned it, because we we get the descriptions
Speaker 1: of the sets, so we sort of semi unless there's
Speaker 1: sets that we've been to a hundred times, we know
Speaker 1: sort of like yeah, we'Renna Walk in, we're gonna do x,
Speaker 1: Y and Z, but we've sort of got this image
Speaker 1: in our head of like yeah, I've I've walked around
Speaker 1: my apartment and I've done this scene and I know
Speaker 1: sort of vaguely how I've stepped into it, and to
Speaker 1: have someone who is in charge, you know, the collaborating boss,
Speaker 1: as it were, to come in and say we're interested
Speaker 1: in hearing your thoughts on this. What is what it
Speaker 1: really does. It actually for me, as someone who sort
Speaker 1: of can can feel a little self confident, um, sorry,
Speaker 1: self conscious about these things sometimes, having having someone in
Speaker 1: that position of power giving me the opportunity really did
Speaker 1: raise my confidence level for the scenes that we had
Speaker 1: to walk into land either way, however, we end up
Speaker 1: with it, we end up discussing it and having a
Speaker 1: thing that we're all happy with as a group, as
Speaker 1: a team, which which is a really, I think, a
Speaker 1: hugely beneficial feelings have on set. Well, that's just the
Speaker 1: happier set where you guys are feeling valued and it's
Speaker 1: not Um something you know, the last thing you want
Speaker 1: to hear is look, you know, I'd love to explain
Speaker 1: it to you, but we got to go or Um,
Speaker 1: a line reading is the worst possible version of any
Speaker 1: of that. So, yeah, I mean to me like that's
Speaker 1: that's the thing that you want to be able to do.
Speaker 1: is to just give you know, let let it be
Speaker 1: a little more sort of democratic that way, and and
Speaker 1: you know, usually that works out because usually you will
Speaker 1: find something that's better. Oh, the other thing I was
Speaker 1: just thinking about, which is great, not just the kissing,
Speaker 1: but one of my other favorite things in that show
Speaker 1: was the elevator thing, the shades of gray, erotic tattooing
Speaker 1: of the room mouse. Yeah, that's great play that tattooing.
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, the one thing I remember about that scene,
Speaker 1: and speaking of the collaboration of everyone on set, is,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're in an elevator, it's such a
Speaker 1: tight space. Dom had to wear my bounce at one
Speaker 1: point that. Would you remember that? It takes a light
Speaker 1: fabric to full service scene. Partner, baby listening. I'll do
Speaker 1: it again, do it again. Did we build that elevator
Speaker 1: or shooting elevator? We built it right, because we disappear
Speaker 1: up through right, because right, so we went up and
Speaker 1: went up through the panel with your grand plan exactly.
Speaker 1: They don't remember that, you know, a little, hell, a little, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the it's the shadow hunter equivalent to dropping the handkerchief, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: was it a disappearing room? What was it and it
Speaker 1: was night vision, being able seen the dark, night vision. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: I have to say your memory of the show has
Speaker 1: been pretty impeccable. Like there I sort of all of
Speaker 1: the details you remembered. We have struggled with that. We've
Speaker 1: gone through it and been like, oh, that's right, this
Speaker 1: is when this happens and x, Y and Z, and
Speaker 1: had sort of placed it all together. But you, I
Speaker 1: seem to have remembered every little detail, which is which
Speaker 1: is pretty damn impressive. It's astounding. Well, it was very
Speaker 1: traumatizing at the time. So, yeah, you know, in full disclosure, when, when,
Speaker 1: when I knew I was going to be doing this,
Speaker 1: I scanned. I scanned a couple. Did I did a rewind? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but still it was I remembered a lot of
Speaker 1: it because, like there was some kind of big stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Stuff on the boat was wild, and we
Speaker 1: got back to that boat too. Thinking about talking about thunderstorms.
Speaker 1: Nothing like a thunderstorm coming in from the D Blake
Speaker 1: and you can see the clouds encroaching and you stood
Speaker 1: on a giant fucking steel conductor just thinking this is,
Speaker 1: this is what's all going to die at some point
Speaker 1: here we go. This is great. Um. Yeah, we went
Speaker 1: back to that boat and then we went into the
Speaker 1: bowels of the boat and had a huge fight scene
Speaker 1: in the bowels of the boat. But it was like
Speaker 1: thirty five, thirty six degrees Um in our leather jackets
Speaker 1: and I had this sweat so that I hated and
Speaker 1: we were just ripping dodging in the dodging room. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did my bit on the boat at drone shot.
Speaker 1: I said this has got to be the last shot
Speaker 1: of the season and it was really, really nicely. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought that show was really good and, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: both both action wise and character wise. Um, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I was also the funny the other funny thing about
Speaker 1: cat with you, which and I a little character while
Speaker 1: waking up in dead with Simon. That whole thing there,
Speaker 1: remember that where he sees you and Simon, are you
Speaker 1: gonna ask me? When are you gonna ask me? When
Speaker 1: are you gonna ask me to be your girlfriend? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was just that was just so much fun because
Speaker 1: it was like a completely different thing for for you.
Speaker 1: I remember having fun with that too. Yeah, not so
Speaker 1: much fun for Simon. At the end of the day, Simon,
Speaker 1: Simon went through it, all of the seasons. Yeah, he, uh,
Speaker 1: he ended up. Alberto, who played Simon Um, ended up
Speaker 1: falling in love and getting engaged to his co starf
Speaker 1: from season three. He met his fiancee in this show. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: who was lovely. Oh, fantastic. Well, that isn't happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was such a great cast and Harry's gone on
Speaker 1: too great things. And of course Isaiah, who never gave
Speaker 1: me my bottle of old spice that he said he
Speaker 1: was going to come through with. So, yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: I sort of rated a gift pack of some card. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, you know, I mean, I feel like our
Speaker 1: episodes led to him being in its very much. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: crickets from Isaiah, man, man. That's great. Well, miles, it
Speaker 1: has been absolutely so lovely having you on the show
Speaker 1: and reconnecting. You know something, you were such a huge
Speaker 1: part of the show and a huge part of season
Speaker 1: one and and it's Um, it's been. It's been an
Speaker 1: honor and a pleasure. Yeah, well, I miss you, guys
Speaker 1: after having done this. Take me on one of those
Speaker 1: fan things. Sometimes I'll go and I'll get you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty from the panel. I can get a panel. Yeah, well, look,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me, guys. I really, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I had a great time, I gotta say, like nothing
Speaker 1: but find memories. Uh, you know, I hope it was
Speaker 1: for you too, and I'll tell you what I mean. Cat,
Speaker 1: I'm in L A pretty often, so, UM, next time
Speaker 1: I come, let me, let me take you for lunch
Speaker 1: and it'll be nice to just see your smiling face
Speaker 1: in person. I'm not often in London, but when I come,
Speaker 1: I'm coming for you and I'm excited to see night Morelia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should really see it. Come on, guys, show your
Speaker 1: brothers some love here. My girlfriend is in L A. Um,
Speaker 1: so we, you know, obviously long distance for the time being,
Speaker 1: and we we have like movie date nights and it's
Speaker 1: on our movie date night, Miss, but I can't sit down,
Speaker 1: like right now. It's almost ten o'clock and I'm like perfect,
Speaker 1: so let's watch a movie and I scroll through and
Speaker 1: I'm like I can't. I've promised her there and watched
Speaker 1: that one together. I'll call her. I'll go you the
Speaker 1: hall pass you. Thank you that it's not entirely romantic,
Speaker 1: like what I might suggest a few episodes of my
Speaker 1: serious sex life o dad if you're looking for a
Speaker 1: date night movie. Um, it's pretty popular with the ladies. Perfect.
Speaker 1: I'm super excited to about it. Well, let's hope that
Speaker 1: this is not the last time our paths cross on
Speaker 1: and offset, because I know we'd certainly love to work
Speaker 1: with you again. So thank you for being here. Back
Speaker 1: at you, back at you, guys. All Right, I love you, guys.
Speaker 1: Return to the shadows is hosted an executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Dominic Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley,
Speaker 1: our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia, and
Speaker 1: our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin vermilion. Original Music
Speaker 1: by Alex Kinzy, performed by Alex Kinzy and Katherine McNamara.