1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hey, what's up? 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Family, Latino USA is coming to Los Angeles. We're having 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 2: a live show on Sunday, June twenty sixth at the 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 2: Theater at the Ace Hotel, and we want you to 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: take center stage. So here's what we're asking our dear listeners, 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: who are Angelino's what do you love about your city? 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: What's your favorite spot? What makes La such a special 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: place for Latinos and Latinas and latinx. Call us at 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: six four six five seven one one two two four. 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: That's six four six five seven to one one to 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: two four and leave us your message and we might 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: play your call on stage at our live show. Also, 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: why don't you join us in person? The show is 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: part of kpcc's Public Radio Polusa. You can buy your 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: tickets at KPCC dot org slash Pelusa. That's KPCC dot 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: org slash Belusa. We can't wait to hear your love 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: notes to Los Angeles. Miss Getty doci Getti das he knows, 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: bemos bronto la note. 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: Ba yas. 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: Ola Latino USA listener, as you might have heard me 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: and Futuro Media were recently awarded a Bulletzer Prize. Yes 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: a Bulletzer Prize for our podcast series called Suave. Suave 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: tells the story of the system that sentences juveniles to 24 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: life in prison without parole. And it's a story that 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: took not years, but decades to report. But in this 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: moment of celebration, I've found myself looking back and reflecting 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: on the journey that made this moment possible. So today 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: we share with you a special interview between myself and 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: Anna Sale of Death, Sex and Money from WNYC. I 30 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: really love this interview. It's a chance I had to 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: go back to my beginnings as a journalist when I 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: was the first Latina in all of the newsrooms where 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: I worked. We got real about the sacrifices I've had 34 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: to make for my career, and we talk about what 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: the Pulitzer means to not only me and to Suave 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: and to our team, but to our entire community of 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 2: Latino and Latina journalists across the country. So I hope 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode of Death, Sex and Money with 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: at a Sale and me not I Yes. 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: Hello, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Maria Henehosto. I called up 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 3: Maria Henehosa last week, just a few days after she 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: and her team at Futrudeau Media had won one of 43 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: the top journalism prizes in the world for a podcast 44 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 3: series called Suave. It's about a man named David Luis 45 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 3: Gonzalez who goes by Suave, who Maria first met more 46 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: than twenty five years ago. Suave was incarcerated at seventeen 47 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: with a life sentence, and the series tells the story 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 3: of how he got there, what happened when he got 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: out in his fifties, and how Maria and Suave's relationship 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: evolved over the years. Maria was shocked by the Pulitzer. 51 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 4: Dude, I kind of love the fact that I didn't 52 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 4: even know that the team had submitted for a Pulitzer. 53 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 4: So here I am in the middle of a meeting 54 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 4: actually as per usual, trying to raise money to do 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 4: what we do, and I just my phone starts blowing up, 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 4: and I don't I don't understand what's going on. You know, 57 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 4: I said to the person in the meeting, I said, 58 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: please give me one moment. Something is happening, and I 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: don't know what. I need to look at my phone. 60 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: And that's when, Yeah, that's when I realized, and I 61 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 4: just started screaming out of my mind. I ran into 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 4: my husband. 63 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: He's like, get us on, get us on. I'm like, 64 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: we want a pulletic And it is the first time 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: that a Latina run media company is recognized by the police. 66 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: Sers I mean, by the way, I'm like in my 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Harlem neighborhood, people are stopping to like congratulations, They're rolling 68 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: down their car windows. 69 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 4: I mean, it's just so beautiful. 70 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: It's like a community win. 71 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: It's like, this is a win for us. 72 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: And in celebration of this community. When we're going to 73 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: share our episode with Maria from twenty twenty with you again, 74 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 3: I've thought about this conversation so much in the two 75 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 3: years since she and I spoke. A lot of what 76 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: she talks about resonated about loving your work fiercely and 77 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 3: how that can collide with nurturing the relationships in your life. 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 3: I think you'll find it a comforting and inspiring listen. Also, 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 3: I do want to let you know that this episode 80 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: includes a description of a rape. It comes up at 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: the start of the second half. If you want to skip, don't. 82 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: I don't think you can be practicing self love and 83 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 2: being angry at everybody else. I just don't think you 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: can do it. I don't think you can be like, 85 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: oh my god, and I'm going to go and meditate. 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: But I hate this motherfucker and fuck you, and I 87 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: hate you and you and you, and I'm not forgiving no. 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: So this is what I'm saying that I had to 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: have a moment where everything would have been crumbling down 90 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: except for key people in my life who said, you 91 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 2: know these people love you, right, so what are you 92 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: going to do? 93 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: This is death, sex, and money, the show from WNYC 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: about the things we think about a lot and need 95 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 3: to talk about more. I mean the sale. For more 96 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: than twenty five years, journalist Maria Inajosa has hosted the 97 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 3: public radio show Latino USA. She's also been a correspondent 98 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: for NPR, PBS, and CNN, and is the CEO of 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: her own production company. 100 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: In order to survive the world that I've been playing 101 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: in the world of media, you have to have a 102 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: huge fucking ego. There ain't no other way to do it. 103 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 3: In most newsrooms where she's worked, Maria was the first 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 3: or only Latina, and she writes in a new memoir 105 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 3: called Once I Was You, she's often felt underestimated and 106 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 3: undermined by her white colleagues. 107 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 2: And I talk about this a lot. By the way, 108 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: to my students, most of whom are of color, most 109 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: of whom are first generation, is that as Latinos and Latinas, 110 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: and as people of color in general, we have to walk. 111 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: And I actually I strut for them. I get in 112 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: the front of the class. Usually I'm wearing my six 113 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 2: inch heels or something like that, so strutting is easy. 114 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: And I'm strutting and I'm like, you are walking in 115 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: a space like this, your shoulders are back, you know 116 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: everything about everybody. 117 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: You are the shit. 118 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: We have to fluff up our own peacock feathers as 119 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: we walk into any space and believe like we are 120 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: the most incredible people. 121 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: Because we have to. 122 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: But when we talked, Maria admitted that all these decades 123 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: of having to push and puff herself up have taken 124 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: a toll. 125 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: You know, my marriage almost broke up because of my ego. 126 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: And the ego, of course, stems from insecurity. It's all insecurity, 127 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: and my trusty companion is the imposter syndrome that's just 128 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: right there on my shoulder. 129 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 3: Maria knew she wanted to be a journalist since she 130 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: was a teenager growing up in Chicago. She came to 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: New York in nineteen seventy nine for college and hosted 132 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: a late night radio show playing Latin American protest music 133 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: and interviewing activists and throwing some legendary New York City 134 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: dance parties. 135 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: So there'd be like three hundred people with a DJ, 136 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: no air conditioning, completely sweating it up, and we'd dance 137 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: until four o'clock in the morning, and then, depending on 138 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: whether or not we had money, we'd get on the 139 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: subway and the subway was completely graffitied up again, no 140 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: air conditioning, and we'd be rocking on the subways at 141 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning. 142 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 3: I want to go back to when you first arrived 143 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: in New York City and you had grown up in 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 3: a Mexican family in Chicago, you were the youngest of 145 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: your siblings. You arrive in New York City, when you 146 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: think about the community that you built, what did it 147 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: look like and how did you find them? 148 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for taking me back to Thish. I 149 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: love this part of my life. I swear I was 150 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: so much fun. It was so much fun. Oh my god, 151 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 2: it was so much fun. It was New York City 152 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 2: early nineteen eighties. By the way, there were no Mexicans 153 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: in New York couldn't find tortillaz anywhere nowhere, couldn't find. 154 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: In New York City. 155 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: Nowhere in New York City could you find tortillaz No, 156 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: oh where nowhere. Had to start having them sent to 157 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: me in a box from Chicago. So so you know 158 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 2: what it felt like. It felt like I would walk 159 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: on and I'd be like, oh, yeah, mihi ghana and 160 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 2: people would be like, ike, you're Mexican, and so what 161 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: and what that allowed me to do? And for some 162 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: Mexicans this is controversial, but for me, it allowed me 163 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: to walk away from my Mexican nationalism because I really 164 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 2: don't I think nationalism any in any way, shape or 165 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: form is well, Hello, we're living through it. And so 166 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: I was glad to be able to walk away from 167 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 2: my Mexican nationalism, my Mexican centric experience in Chicago and 168 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: just be like bro, wait wait yo, soiltino a medi ghana. 169 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: I'm Latin American. Yo, I got I got my Argentinian 170 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: people over here, I got my Salvadorans. I'm eating pupoosas 171 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: I'm dancing salsa. Celia Gruz is now a part of 172 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: my life. You know, everything exploded for me, and I 173 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: felt like I was part of a continent. 174 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: I love that I'm part of a continent. Is that 175 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: something you actually said out loud like the latter, Yeah. 176 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. 177 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: Also, because this was the nineteen eighties in Latin America 178 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 2: and we were very conscious about a unified Latin America. 179 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: This was a time of a lot of activism and 180 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: I was to be to be clear among Latinos and Latinas, 181 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 2: this is an interesting and necessary conversation. But there were 182 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: people who are like, oh ya, Memadia, do you why 183 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: do you identify as a Latina? You're a Mexican And 184 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, Latina is all of us, yeah, but you 185 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: know you're not Puerto Rican. 186 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm not. 187 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: And so I always again open up the conversation as 188 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: like can we see our humanity in each other? And 189 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: that was I mean, that was the best experience. 190 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: In New York. 191 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: Was just like oh my god. And then there were 192 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: like this whole bohemian thing that was going on. There 193 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: were artists everywhere. 194 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: One of those artists was Arman Perez, who would eventually 195 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: become Maria's husband. She met him a few years after 196 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: graduating from college. 197 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: He's like, you got to come and see my artwork. 198 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh boy. 199 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: And so I went to his house and I saw 200 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: his paintings and I kind of that's it, Like I 201 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: was like, you painted this And it was Daino Indians 202 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: in Arato in a moon dance that he had captured 203 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: with all the colors and the palm trees growing out 204 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: of their heads. And I was like, oh, and then 205 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: it could have been a one night stand. But he 206 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: was like, hey, I'm just letting you know. I'm not playing. 207 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: I'm looking to form I'm looking to form a clan. 208 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: And I was like a clan, what are you a bear? 209 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: And he was like, I want my family to be 210 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: the most important thing in my life. I want to 211 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: protect my family, and I want a family that we 212 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: are going to see, we are going to understand that 213 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: we have to protect and take care of each other. 214 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. 215 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 3: Maria and Arman married in nineteen ninety one and started 216 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 3: their family while Maria was also building her career as 217 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: a journalist. Maria was the primary breadwinner. First, as a 218 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 3: reporter at NPR, then at CNN starting in nineteen ninety seven, 219 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 3: but balancing work and her time with her husband and 220 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 3: their two kids wasn't easy doing life. 221 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: Television is a drug. It becomes an addiction. It becomes 222 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: an addiction like an adrenaline addiction. But it can also 223 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: you know, it can ruin your life. So coming home 224 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: from work could look like. 225 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: Shit. 226 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: I was just gone for three days reporting on the 227 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 2: beheading of a man in Iraq, and I was at 228 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: his parents' home doing live shots eighteen hours a day. 229 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 2: And now I'm walking home home, and I'm walking into 230 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: my house and I have to basically stand at my 231 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: front door. I learned this from a from a woman 232 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: named Marianna who had HIV and then AIDS, and she 233 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: would say when I come home. She was from the 234 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: Bronx Puerto Rican and she when I come home, AID 235 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: stays outside the door. AIDS do not come inside the 236 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 2: door with me. And I was like, what do you mean. 237 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: She's like, I stand outside the door, Amy, I go 238 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: la limpia melimpio. I clean myself. I cleanse literally, you 239 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: know you've seen that. You wipe it off, you wipe 240 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: it off your face and you shake your hands, you 241 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 2: wipe it off your legs, and that's what. 242 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: I would do. 243 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 2: And then I'd walk in the front door and I'd 244 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: be like, hey, Ola. 245 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: What's up? 246 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: And the kids would come running and I'd be like, 247 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: what's up, hey, mamma. And oftentimes my husband might or 248 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: might not be happy, you know, because he just got 249 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 2: stuck with being with the kids for three or four days. 250 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: So it was hard, you know, I mean it was 251 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: a real stress. You can't do that with a partner 252 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: who is gonna who's gonna give you shit all the time. 253 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: And we did and have the kind of salaries to 254 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 2: be hiring full time nanny kind of thing. 255 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: You talked about being on television feeling addictive and it's 256 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 3: a very competitive environment. You are, at that point already 257 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: a very experienced veteran journalist. Do you feel like looking 258 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: back at your time with cable news distorted your values? 259 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly what my husband would say. 260 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: What would he say? 261 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: That's exactly I no, no, no, I mean no, I 262 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: mean he was like, look, you understand, what's going to happen. 263 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: You're going to end up on the Tonight Show being 264 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: made fun of because what CNN is asking you to 265 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: do and you are going to suffer the consequences of. 266 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: Their ratings game. 267 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: You are, you know, you need to be very careful 268 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: because and I think that I think what actually set 269 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: him off was I mean, he could see it kind 270 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: of coming. He was able to see we could all 271 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: see it. CNN was suddenly getting flashier. I mean, CNN 272 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: basically was asking us to in a ratings battle. 273 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: To be more. 274 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: In Spanish, we say, I'm Ariyista in you know yellow journalism. 275 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: You know you may remember a CNN reporter getting tasered 276 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: live on camera and we were all just like holy shit, 277 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, great, and so now that's what's 278 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: expected of us, Like I'm gonna have to get tasered 279 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: in order to be taken seriously by the new president 280 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: of CNN. US I have to like, do you understand? 281 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: Like everything was getting warped, and Hiramann fell in love 282 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: with me because he saw the journalist in me. He 283 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: saw the woman who was fighting for the First Amendment. 284 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: So for Hiemann to say, you're teetering here, like it 285 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: could happen any moment, and I knew it could. 286 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was hard. 287 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: The problem is is that like I was rejecting a 288 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: part of my Mexican Latina mother's self because I didn't 289 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: want to become my mother and subservient to my husband. 290 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: But I was kind of throwing out. 291 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: The baby with the bathwater, which was like, y'all can 292 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: take care of yourselves. 293 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: I'll see you later. 294 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: I gotta go do this because I got to build 295 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: up my ego and I got to keep this job going, 296 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: and I got to keep on getting to yes and 297 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: yes and yes. 298 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: What do you remember the moment you realized, oh, this 299 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: marriage and family, this is not guaranteed to me. I 300 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: might lose this. 301 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: It could have happened during those CNN moments, but I 302 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: think I just maneuvered out of it really quickly. 303 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: I was able to get another job. 304 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: I left CNN, I was hired it now on PBS, 305 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: and life changed in different ways. But the moment where 306 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: that happened, and. 307 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: It was very clear was. 308 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 2: It was twenty sixteen, and yeah it was, it was recent, 309 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: and that was a moment where we almost separated. 310 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: The marriage almost did not make it. 311 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 3: Coming up the revelation that happened leading up to that 312 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 3: crisis point and how Maria had to take a hard 313 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 3: look at herself and her priorities to preserve her marriage. 314 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 2: I did make a choice. My therapist said, you know, Maria, 315 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: your children, they're going to see what this looks like. 316 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: They're going to see what this choice looks like. And 317 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: that's an incredible lesson because he loves you. This man 318 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: loves you, and honestly, I got to be very honest 319 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: with you, the idea of having sex with another person 320 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: totally freaked me out. 321 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 3: At the beginning of twenty twenty two, we asked those 322 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 3: of you who teach in a classroom for a living 323 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 3: how you were doing, and we heard from many of 324 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 3: you that they were really hard the omicron surge, masking 325 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: students that were behind academically and out of practice socially. 326 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 3: Some of you weren't sure you wanted to keep at 327 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 3: this work, like Lindsay, who teaches in Queens, New York. 328 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 5: For me, I just feel like all the fun of 329 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 5: teaching is gone. I don't know if it'll come back. 330 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 5: I'm tempted to just walk away from it all. And 331 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 5: I don't know if it's because the pandemic has changed 332 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 5: me or if it just made me realize that this 333 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 5: isn't it. 334 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 3: On our next episode, we check back in with some 335 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 3: of the teachers we heard from about how they're feeling 336 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 3: now that the end of this school year is in sight. 337 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to have to just like you know, work 338 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: with adults with growing up. We're eight out like what. 339 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 2: I can't break out in the song randomly wherever and up. 340 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: That's only okay in a crossroom. 341 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 3: This is death, sex and money from WNYC. 342 00:18:59,480 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: I mean. 343 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 3: In her book Once I Was You, Maria Henhjos writes 344 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: frankly about desire and sex, and also about how when 345 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 3: she was sixteen years old and on a date, she 346 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 3: was raped, but it took her years before she could 347 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 3: call it that. 348 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: I didn't really I didn't call it a rape. 349 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: Oh you know, it was not. 350 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 2: I was definitely not even dealing with it or thinking 351 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: about it. I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, 352 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: so I understand I was always wary of streets. 353 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: And being alone and being a woman. 354 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: And you know, a rape is a man, you know, 355 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: with a knife to your neck in an alley. That's 356 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: what it was. And I'm gonna be honest with you. 357 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: Here's what I used to call it. I was a 358 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 2: baby rape. 359 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 3: Oh you would say that? 360 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: Why can you imagine? 361 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 3: Why would you say that? 362 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: Because I was like, wait, it wasn't a real rape. 363 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: It was like a baby rape, and I get horror, 364 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: how horrible? 365 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: Why Why did baby rape feel like a more comfortable 366 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 3: way to describe it than to just say rape? Why 367 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 3: was that helpful? 368 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 4: Well? 369 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: One, because I participated. I got in the car, I 370 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: said yes, I saw him walking out to go buy rubbers, rubbers, condoms, 371 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: you know. 372 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: And I didn't get out of the car. 373 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: I didn't tell him when I realized he was an 374 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: asshole after all, I should have said take me back home. 375 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: I don't want to go, and I didn't. And I 376 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: thought that because I did say no, that I always knew. 377 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: I always said no, no, no, no, no, no no 378 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: no no, no, no, no, no no no. I said 379 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 2: no the whole time. But maybe it was that kind 380 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 2: of a no. So was it a screaming no? 381 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: You know? 382 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 2: So I guess that means that it wasn't a real rape. 383 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: I wasn't screaming no. The thing about rape and sexual 384 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 2: assault with women is that we were convinced, we we 385 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 2: we made this happen. We were at fault. There was 386 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: something wrong with us, like this is you know, that's 387 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 2: the trajectory, and of course that is deeply ingrained. So 388 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: it changed when my therapist we were doing deep therapy 389 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 2: on this that was that was like twenty fifteen. 390 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 3: So you were in your fifties. You were in your 391 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: fifties before you use the word rape for what happened 392 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: to you as a teenager. 393 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was feeling really, I was admitting in 394 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: the therapy. 395 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, why did I do that? Why 396 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: did I go with him? 397 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: I mean, like I understood, like why why did I 398 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: do that? Like I could tell he was an asshole, 399 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 2: Like sure he was cute, but he was nothing special, 400 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: Like why? And then she said, Maria, you were a 401 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: sixteen year old girl. 402 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: You had every right. 403 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: To be hot and horny and want him, because that's 404 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: what you feel when you're sixteen. And also I thought 405 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: I hadn't fought back. Now, of course, when you do therapy, 406 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: that's what happens. You're like, oh shit, it's that he 407 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 2: held me down. That's why I didn't fought back. That's 408 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 2: why I hadn't been able to fight back. Once I 409 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 2: was able to understand what was going on. It just 410 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: really just comes all vomiting out. I just always was like, 411 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: why am I, I. 412 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: Said to my therapist. 413 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: I remember by now I had been seeing her for 414 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 2: ten years. I just like, I don't even know how 415 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 2: to start sex, Like how did She's like, oh, really, God, girl, 416 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: I just walked into the kitchen and I start taking 417 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: off my bra and I'm just like I couldn't never. 418 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, I could never. 419 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: Thank God that my husband never gave up. 420 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 3: Honestly, As Maria was processing all of this, she was 421 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: also at a professional high point after years of working 422 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: for some of the country's biggest news organizations and winning 423 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: numerous journalism awards along the way. She founded her own 424 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 3: production company, Fucua Media Group in twenty ten, but the 425 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: demands of being an executive while still hosting and reporting 426 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 3: intensified the pressures on her marriage. 427 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: I was busy working and hit him on would be like, sweetie, 428 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 2: you're missing all kinds of stuff, and I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, 429 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: I just got this story to do, okay, Yeah, yeah, 430 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: I just got to do this other thing. 431 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: Okay, I'll just I'll be right back. I got to 432 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: go do this. I gotta go write this book. 433 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: I'll you know, it was always and that's the complaint, 434 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: you know, is that it was always there was always 435 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: something else until they came to a breaking point, and 436 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: then it was like they're not going to be around, 437 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: like they really are tired of you. 438 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 3: I want to make sure I understand you say. You know, 439 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 3: it sounds like you've had a few different points with 440 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 3: your family and with your husband where you've realized you 441 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 3: need to make adjustments. But you said the hardest moment 442 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 3: was in twenty sixteen. What happened then. 443 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: What happened then was the thing that was always kind 444 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: of hanging over me that my best friend Sanity had 445 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 2: told me, you need to be careful. You can't keep 446 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: putting your husband at the bottom of the list of 447 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 2: things that are important. You need to write that list 448 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: of things that matter. Is he in the top? Is 449 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: he number one? Number two? 450 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: You can't. 451 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 2: You gotta be careful. That moment arrived when he said, 452 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 2: sabis K, I'm out. I think it was my ego. 453 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 2: It was my bossing people around, It was my telling 454 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 2: everybody what to do. You know, it was my inability 455 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: to slow down. And just like when you'll be with 456 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: people and actually in his case to just look at him, 457 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: give him time, respect. You know, I learned about the 458 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: five love languages. You know he needs time. I don't, 459 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, I need other things. Heimann wrote a nine 460 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: page letter by hand to my therapist so that my 461 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: therapist could understand what was going on, because he was like, 462 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 2: I don't even want to I'm done like doing the 463 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: therapy thing. But he wrote this letter and he said, 464 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: but you should read it. And I was so angry. 465 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 2: I was so angry. I was right, you know, I 466 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: was like, okay, you want to leave, we want to separate. Okay, fine, 467 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 2: you know, as soon as the daughter goes off to school, 468 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: you know, you'll move out or I'll move out. Anger, anger, angry. 469 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: And then I was actually coming back from I don't 470 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: know what trip I was, and I read the letter 471 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 2: and it was Hermann's heart, and suddenly I was able 472 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 2: to see me from his perspective, like his narrative. It 473 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: was very different than my narrative, which is what my 474 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: therapist was saying. She's like, there are multiple narratives. You 475 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: have to be able to come on. 476 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: You know this. You have a narrative. He has a narrative. 477 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 2: And I was able to understand and then see his 478 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 2: heart and it broke my heart to see somebody who 479 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: I loved feeling unloved. And so I just said, well, shit, no, no, no, no, no, no, 480 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 2: I love you. I do, I love you, I love 481 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: I love There are things that I can't stand about you, 482 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: but I love you, and I'm going to forgive all 483 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: of the things that have built up in a marriage 484 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: that they do and I'm letting them go. And I 485 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: started to do deep meditation, woof meditation all the time, forgiveness, 486 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: letting go, the anger, letting go, and again the therapy 487 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 2: and coming to terms very clearly making choices about love. 488 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: I am choosing, you know. And then i'd be with 489 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: my therapist. But what about what he And then he 490 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: did and then he said and then he. 491 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: And she's like, Mariah, what are you going to do? 492 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 2: And of course, you know, one of the when you 493 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 2: start doing a little bit of meditation, it's like do 494 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: you want to be right or do you want to 495 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 2: be happy? 496 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: You want to be right or you want to be happy? 497 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: You want to keep on fighting that battle? 498 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, do you still have that letter? Maria? 499 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: Oh? 500 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 2: Yes, where is it? It's at the bottom of a 501 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: drawer underneath some clothing that's in a kind of another 502 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 2: little box, but I have thought I should probably put 503 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: it someplace that's a little bit safer. 504 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 3: There's so much that you're saying that I'm relating to 505 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 3: in marriage, and I think particularly for someone for whom 506 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: work is really important and essential to be in a 507 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 3: marriage to a man. When a man is telling you 508 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 3: he wants you to do something differently, that can like 509 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 3: rub up against the sort of like feminist reaction. I 510 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: don't know about you. That's how I experience exactly right. 511 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: I was like, how, no, you can't. And the thing 512 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: is is that I guess what I'm trying to say 513 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,239 Speaker 2: is a certain point, and it's very delicate, is that 514 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: as women, we also have to be able to separate 515 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: our position from our gender, and we just have to 516 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: be able to hear it as a human being, like 517 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 2: this is a human being saying this to another human being. 518 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: You're seeing it as a man who's your husband, who's 519 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: your partner, who's telling you what to do, as opposed 520 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 2: to is there a piece of advice that I really 521 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 2: need to hear here? Is there something that he has seen? 522 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm a very good listener, but sometimes 523 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 2: us listeners don't do so well when we have to 524 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: listen to our families. 525 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: That is journalist, media executive and Pulitzer Prize winner Maria Hinojosa. 526 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: Her book Once I Was You is out in paperback 527 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 3: and if you haven't do listen to Suave. It's a 528 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 3: seven part podcast series. We put a link to it 529 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: in our show notes. Death, Sex, and Money is a 530 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 3: listener supported production of WNYC Studios in New York. Afi 531 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 3: Yellow Duke and Annabel Bacon produced this episode. The rest 532 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 3: of our team includes Julia Furlan, Zoey Azulai, Emily Boutine, 533 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 3: and Andrew Dunn. The Reverend John Delore and Steve Lewis 534 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 3: wrote our theme music. I'm on Instagram at Annasale Pics, 535 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: That's pics, and the show is at Death Sex Money 536 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And I want to say 537 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: thank you to the many listeners who joined in and 538 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 3: signed up to become new sustaining members while we've been 539 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: fundraising this month. Thank you for adding your small monthly 540 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 3: contribution to the funds that keep us going. We depend 541 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 3: on it and we appreciate you. If you haven't yet 542 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 3: joined in, please go to death sexmoney dot org slash donate. 543 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: Maria told me back in twenty twenty that for her 544 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 3: the early pandemic that meant that she was working from 545 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 3: home and her kids had both recently moved back in. 546 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: She loved getting to spend a lot of quality time 547 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 3: with them, though she admitted it came with trade offs. 548 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: It's not great for your sex life 549 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: But other than that, I'm in a sale and this 550 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: is death, Sex and Money from w NYC