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Noel Brown: Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,

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Noel Brown: arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one

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Noel Brown: Bible approved stoning. Sensitive listeners take care.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: So here's a confession I'm gonna make right at the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: top of the show. I don't believe in astrology, but

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Mangesh Hattikudur: astrology keeps happening to me. Now everyone says podcasting is

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the most visual medium, so I made you a slideshow

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to try to explain. This is the real Skyline Drive.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: It's in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: it's one of the many places I would drive to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: look at the stars. This is the moon. It rules

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Mangesh Hattikudur: our emotions. This is Mercury in retrograde. You know it

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Mangesh Hattikudur: because it makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Ketu.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: They're important and mischievous nodes in Vedic astrology. They're prominent

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Mangesh Hattikudur: in Donald Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris Hilton.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is me. I was born May 1, 1979. This

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Mangesh Hattikudur: is the sky at the time I was born. In

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are some

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Mangesh Hattikudur: other Tauruses: Pol Pot, Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Barbra Streisand. The fact that we're all Tauruses has made

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Mangesh Hattikudur: me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are

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Mangesh Hattikudur: my parents. They've been hitched fifty-one years and every morning

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Mangesh Hattikudur: my dad makes my mom a cup of tea, and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: then they sit and do the spelling bee in pencil. It's adorable, right?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: These are my parents calling in the middle of this recording.

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Umesh Hattikudur: Hey Mangesh, I think you had called, so I was calling back.

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Umesh Hattikudur: Give me a call.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is India. When I was growing up, words like "yoga"

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and "meditation" and "turmeric" and "astrology"? These were words that were

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Mangesh Hattikudur: part of my Indian life. But they weren't a part

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Mangesh Hattikudur: of my going-to-school fitting-into-America one. But now? Now everyone has

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Mangesh Hattikudur: an opinion about it.

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street interviews: I'm a Gemini, which I've heard is bad. I'm a Libra,

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street interviews: so I'm indecisive. That's definitely true.

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street interviews: I'm a Taurus. I find the start to be beautiful.

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street interviews: It sucks that we can't see you stars in New

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street interviews: York because of all the lights.

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street interviews: I know a few people who are kind of into it,

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street interviews: and they're like, asked, yo, did you see the horoscope today?

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street interviews: And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried

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street interviews: about what the horoscope says.

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street interviews: I know a lot of people don't believe in it,

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street interviews: but why can't people just believe in things for fun,

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street interviews: Like it doesn't have to be backed up by anything.

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street interviews: If you believe in fantasy football, why can't you believe

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street interviews: in astrology.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: A few months ago, my friends and I set out

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run

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Mangesh Hattikudur: around the city and have some wild adventures and understand

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Mangesh Hattikudur: why after so many millennia, people still looked to the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: sky for answers.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is an astrologer I met in Queens. He promised me,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: you're gonna dig this show.

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Dr. Rakesh Kumar: I think if you do your own show will become

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Dr. Rakesh Kumar: a super hit, no doubt about it.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is a graph of how much I believe in

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Mangesh Hattikudur: astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later

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Mangesh Hattikudur: when something horrible he said came true.

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Dr. Rakesh Kumar: That's why I asked again from the time he started

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Dr. Rakesh Kumar: a couple of years back. Still now, the situation doesn't

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Dr. Rakesh Kumar: look good.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop

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Mangesh Hattikudur: in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It

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Mangesh Hattikudur: was written centuries ago and put on a shelf and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coded

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Mangesh Hattikudur: by your thumb print and the time you're going to walk

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Mangesh Hattikudur: through that door. This, this is me walking through that door.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm Mangesh Hattikudur. From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Radio, this is

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Skyline Drive.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER ONE: LEAVE YOUR AXE AT HOME

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A.J. Jacobs: So I figured, you know, I do need to stone

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A.J. Jacobs: an astrologer. And there are a bunch of astrologers on

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A.J. Jacobs: the upper west Side. It was set up with these...

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Mangesh Hattikudur: (laughing) Wait! So, you're looking for an astrologer to stone?!

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A.J. Jacobs: Oh yeah, well I needed to check it off the list. I've got a hundred things to check off...

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Mangesh Hattikudur: You know, already this reporting and starting off weirder than

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer day

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and I'm standing here with A. J. Jacobs.

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A.J. Jacobs: I am an author and a journalist and a Pisces.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: In addition to being a Pisces-- or technically on the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: cusp of Pisces and Aries, A.J. is a friend... and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: he's one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet

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Mangesh Hattikudur: him in this neighborhood because in 2007, he wrote a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: New York Times bestseller called The Year of Living Biblically.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: The book was a phenomenon. It came out in multiple languages,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: There were magazine and TV pieces about it. It was

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Mangesh Hattikudur: such a big deal that at one point Marlon Wayans

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Mangesh Hattikudur: was lined up to play A.J. in the network TV version.

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A.J. Jacobs: The premise was that I would follow all the rules

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A.J. Jacobs: of the Bible as literally as possible. So that meant

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A.J. Jacobs: the famous ones: like the Ten Commandments and 'love your neighbor,'

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A.J. Jacobs: but also the lesser known ones like 'you cannot wear

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A.J. Jacobs: clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics,' so I

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A.J. Jacobs: had to get rid of all of my poly-cotton blends.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Giving up poly-cotton blends is just one of the hardships A.J.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: endured in the name of journalism. He also grew a massive beard,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: shoved a wild bird so he could steal its egg

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and say a prayer on it, and he followed 700

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Mangesh Hattikudur: other Biblical rules literally in an attempt to understand religion.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: And somewhere along the way he decided that to fully

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Mangesh Hattikudur: appreciate the Bible...

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A.J. Jacobs: ... you actually had to stone people who committed these abominations.

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A.J. Jacobs: And the abominations included adultery, breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination,

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A.J. Jacobs: they're all sort of lumped together.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a shock to me. I mean, A.J. is one of

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.

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A.J. Jacobs: I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I

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A.J. Jacobs: just wanted to check it off my list, you know,

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A.J. Jacobs: stone an astrologer: check! So I walked by this astrologer

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A.J. Jacobs: on the street and just very subtly dropped a pebble

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A.J. Jacobs: so that it landed on her shoe

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Mangesh Hattikudur: (kind of a drive by stoning)

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A.J. Jacobs: And I was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice

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A.J. Jacobs: because I just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like:

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A.J. Jacobs: "what what's going on? Why did you do that?!" And

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A.J. Jacobs: so I had to tell the truth, because I was

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A.J. Jacobs: following the Bible. I thought maybe she'll think it's funny.

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A.J. Jacobs: She did not think it's funny. She was pissed. She

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A.J. Jacobs: started yelling at me like, "F you, go to F'in hell!"

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A.J. Jacobs: I was rattled. Even if you're trying to stone someone

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A.J. Jacobs: in modern day using pebbles, people don't like it. That's

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A.J. Jacobs: a lesson, that's a takeaway.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Rule #1: don't stone an astrologer. This wasn't the advice

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I'd come for, but I wrote it down anyway. The

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Mangesh Hattikudur: thing I'd really wanted to know; the reason I traveled

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Mangesh Hattikudur: all the way out here to meet with A.J. was

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to ask him how to make this show... because doing

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a show on astrology? It actually makes me nervous. Like,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: is there a way to talk about how accurate a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: fortune-telling parrot could possibly be? Or is there a way

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to joke about whether an astro curse can make you bald?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Because even if the show makes me look silly, like,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't want to get disinvited from a family wedding

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Mangesh Hattikudur: because I said something that hurt friends or family... or

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Mangesh Hattikudur: really anyone who puts stock in the subject. [to AJ]

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Mangesh Hattikudur: "As I'm trying to uncover threads and things like how

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Mangesh Hattikudur: do you tell a story delicately where you're not offending

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Mangesh Hattikudur: people but still engaging with the subject?"

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A.J. Jacobs: I had that exact dilemma when I was writing The

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A.J. Jacobs: Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as

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A.J. Jacobs: an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is

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A.J. Jacobs: go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an

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A.J. Jacobs: agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're

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A.J. Jacobs: just an explorer. So go in with no axe. Leave

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A.J. Jacobs: your axes at home.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: That I think I can do. After the break, we

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Mangesh Hattikudur: talk to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology, take

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a subway ride to Queens and hear this from my mom:

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Lalita Hattikudur: "I felt like a Jersey Cow."

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Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER TWO: JUST FOR FUNDS

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Channing Tatum: Is the phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through

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Channing Tatum: the phone? Pattern? AI? The algorithm? That is The Pattern?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Back in 2020, one of my friends shot me a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: text linking to this video of Channing Tatum. The actor

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Mangesh Hattikudur: had uploaded it himself after using an astrology app called

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Mangesh Hattikudur: The Pattern. But when Channing's readings became a little too

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Mangesh Hattikudur: spot on, he freaked out.

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Channing Tatum: Are you listening through my phone? And then just regurgitating

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Channing Tatum: the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff? You know what?

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Channing Tatum: Pattern People-- you should just call me. I need answers

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Channing Tatum: right now.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Poor Channing. I don't know if he ever got his answers,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: but what I do know is that astrology is ubiquitous

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and lucrative. One venture capital investor told The New York

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Times that the app Co-star, a Pattern competitor, had the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: potential to be a twenty four billion dollar business, claiming

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Mangesh Hattikudur: he could one day be as big as Spotify. But

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Mangesh Hattikudur: if astrology is as big an opportunity as everyone's saying,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm wondering if my company should get into the act.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: After all, it feels so obvious that-- I don't know--

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Mangesh Hattikudur: even a 9 year old could see the potential? So

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I decided to try to pitch out on my 9

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Mangesh Hattikudur: year old.

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Ruby: Hey Anu, why did you bring me to this closet?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I brought you to this closet because I wanted to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: pitch you on an astrology app? Are you ready for it?

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Ruby: Booooooo...

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Why is that? What do you think about astrology?

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Ruby: It's dumb.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Oh gosh, well, maybe you're not the right person for it,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: but the reason I came to you is because you actually

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Mangesh Hattikudur: have a bank. You spend only my money. You seem

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to hoard all your money. And you keep all of

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Henry's money as well, which you charge him a small

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Mangesh Hattikudur: fee for. So I thought you might be the savvaest

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Mangesh Hattikudur: person in this family. Is it okay if I pitch

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Mangesh Hattikudur: you an astrology app?

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Ruby: Uhhh... Okay.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: So here's my case for it. These aren't your grandmother's horoscopes, right?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: They're talking to you in this very fresh and fun way. Uh,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: they're up to the minute with the latest NASA data.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: They look beautiful, and they have a chat feature where

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Mangesh Hattikudur: astrologers will chat with you live about your birth charts. Right?

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Mangesh Hattikudur: And then by 2019, right, like you can see astrology is

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Mangesh Hattikudur: starting to take over. Bumble, this dating app, they start

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Mangesh Hattikudur: allowing you to sort your matches by birth signs, so

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Mangesh Hattikudur: like you could say, like I only want to date

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Tauruses or I only want to date Geminis or whatever.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: In fact, astrology in 2019 was a 2.2 billion dollar market.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: What do you think about that?

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Ruby: Mind blown!

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I can't tell whether you're serious or not, but apps

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Mangesh Hattikudur: made forty million dollars that year. And in fact, the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: next year, when COVID really hit, people started searching for

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Mangesh Hattikudur: birth charts and astrology. Both of those searches hit five

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Mangesh Hattikudur: year peaks on Google. So it's no wonder that all

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Mangesh Hattikudur: these venture capital funds had started investing in astrology apps

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Mangesh Hattikudur: early and then continue to invest... and I'm here to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: ask you to invest in my astrology app. What do

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Mangesh Hattikudur: you think?

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Ruby: Um, Anu... I'm spending my money on a skateboard, not

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Ruby: on you.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Okay, well, so Ruby, what type of business would you

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Mangesh Hattikudur: invest in?

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Ruby: Bubble guuuuuummmm!

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Mangesh Hattikudur: [laughing] Okay.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER THREE: TRUTH AND POETRY

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Mangesh Hattikudur: When you go out with a recorder in hand, it's

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Mangesh Hattikudur: interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found scientists

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Mangesh Hattikudur: at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest in

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Mangesh Hattikudur: astrology to us because they were afraid of losing their jobs.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: We found PhDs and post-docs who were worried that if

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Mangesh Hattikudur: they talked at all to our podcasts, even to say

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Mangesh Hattikudur: that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions. I mean,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: it is insanity what a lightning rod astrology can be.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: But luckily we found Jaime Green.

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Jaime Green: My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut

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Jaime Green: that had this germ in it, and he said, that's going

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Jaime Green: to become a plant. And it was just things like

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Jaime Green: that that got me interested in the world, which is

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Jaime Green: the same as being interested in science.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Jaime is a celebrated science writer

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Jaime Green: and I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it from

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Jaime Green: looking at anything about my life. I've got some planet

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Jaime Green: in Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: She has a new book coming out called The Possibility

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Mangesh Hattikudur: of Life and she's co editor of the annual Best

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Mangesh Hattikudur: American Science and Nature writing volumes, and whether it's chatting

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Mangesh Hattikudur: about our garden or the way we perceive constellations, her

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Mangesh Hattikudur: capacity for wonder is incredible... and infectious. But perhaps what

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I love most about Jaime was how she clarified that

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Mangesh Hattikudur: science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds

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Mangesh Hattikudur: with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Not that she thinks astrology is a science exactly scientifically:

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Jaime Green: In terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a lot of

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Jaime Green: meaning because it's all very human centric. From the point

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Jaime Green: of view of looking at the stars from Earth.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: The stars are light years apart. They have no real

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Mangesh Hattikudur: relation to each other except in our minds. But that relationship,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the one we make up while looking up at the stars,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: that means something... or it can mean something, if you

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Mangesh Hattikudur: want it to.

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Jaime Green: It's like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie.

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Jaime Green: And I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that

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Jaime Green: it's for you to take from it what you need.

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Jaime Green: And like we don't think it's anti-science to say a

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Jaime Green: poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive,

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Jaime Green: is when people say that astrology is a science and

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Jaime Green: has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh, no

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Jaime Green: it doesn't. But it's true the way a poem is true.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this

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Mangesh Hattikudur: idea that astrology is true the same way a poem

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Mangesh Hattikudur: is true? That feels right to me. And it's something

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Mangesh Hattikudur: my friend Pete also said when I talked to him.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Pete's deal is, well, it's complicated.

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Peter Bauer: So like even though I was like a semi-successful musician,

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Peter Bauer: I was like, I need to make money somehow, like

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Peter Bauer: right now. Like what other skills do I have? Oh,

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Peter Bauer: I do astrology.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Pete is a rock star; like a real rock star.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: He used to be in The Walkman, that massive seminal

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was professional astrology.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: When he was younger, he trained with this big famous guru.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: He was living in his guesthouse and that's where he

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Mangesh Hattikudur: learned to read star charts.

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Peter Bauer: You would take them back to him and he would

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Peter Bauer: say like, "no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

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Peter Bauer: Like "you're wrong." You know? And then he kind of,

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Peter Bauer: in very traditional style, like yell-at-the-apprentice sort of thing..."

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Mangesh Hattikudur:  Kung-fu master thing?

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Peter Bauer: Right. Very very karate kid kind of feeling, right.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: But here's the other thing: Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but

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Mangesh Hattikudur: he doesn't believe in it.

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Peter Bauer: It's this art to me. And I don't mean that dismissively. Like,

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Peter Bauer: that's like my whole being. Like, that's what I care about.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I both spent formative years in India, and we have

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a certain comfort in the magical.

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Peter Bauer: If you read like a hundred Years of Solitude or

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Peter Bauer: something like that, world of like this kind of magical Columbia.

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Peter Bauer: You know, it's like that felt very similar in a

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Peter Bauer: lot of ways to how we were raised.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why

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Mangesh Hattikudur: was my family's little community in India so well off

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a century ago? You could say it's because of luck

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Mangesh Hattikudur: or global economics. You could say it's because when the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed

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Mangesh Hattikudur: more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the US had been producing. And my family they just

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Mangesh Hattikudur: happened to be in the right place to manage mills

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the story in a way that's way, way more magical:

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Mangesh Hattikudur: that a great great ancestor had this powerful vision from

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a goddess that if he chanted a simple string of

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Mangesh Hattikudur: prayers every single night, and he taught all his children

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to sing it, and they taught all their children, his

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Mangesh Hattikudur: people would be protected for years. And for most of

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Mangesh Hattikudur: my life, I only knew that second story.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER FOUR: MOPEDS AND MINI-SKIRTS

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Arranged marriage has always been this thing that's hard for

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Mangesh Hattikudur: me to talk about. When I first moved to Delaware,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: kids in my elementary school had all these questions for

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Mangesh Hattikudur: me about being Indian, right? Like does your family sleep

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Mangesh Hattikudur: on a bed of nails? Can you charm snakes? Just

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Mangesh Hattikudur: you know these things they've seen on cartoons? And arranged

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Mangesh Hattikudur: marriage was just another one of these questions I'd have

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Mangesh Hattikudur: to field... except this one actually bothered me more because

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Mangesh Hattikudur: this time I'd have to admit that, "yes, my parents

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Mangesh Hattikudur: did have an arranged marriage." And then I'd have to explain.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: The thing is, everyone assumed my mom and dad were

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Mangesh Hattikudur: like forcibly paired off when they were 9 years old

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Mangesh Hattikudur: and then sent away to work and have kids, and

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Mangesh Hattikudur: that isn't true. It's like my parents situation was a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: little more like Pride and Prejudice. Like, you come from

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a good family, your parents want you to marry into

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Mangesh Hattikudur: another good family, so they set you up. They make

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Mangesh Hattikudur: introductions to certain people, and if you like each other,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: they kind of fast-track the marriage, or they make more introductions.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: But since this was already super hard to explain, I

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Mangesh Hattikudur: just left out the part about astrology, which also plays

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a big role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It

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Mangesh Hattikudur: was like, I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: After all, it's it's a weird thing to have to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: admit you only exist because of astrology. But I'll let

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Mangesh Hattikudur: my mom explain.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Tell me about how your marriage was arranged.

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Lalita Hattikudur: Oh, that's funny. Okay. Umesh's aunt, Shardakka-- she came to

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Lalita Hattikudur: see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: I guess this story starts, of course, with two families...

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Mangesh Hattikudur: dusting off their kids' horoscopes and handing them off to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: a trusted astrologer, not some low-level quack.

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Lalita Hattikudur: So they matched it, and it matched perfectly.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than

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Mangesh Hattikudur: just saying: is he a Scorpio? A proper celestial marriage

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Mangesh Hattikudur: is supposed to be a union of souls, so the

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Mangesh Hattikudur: astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure

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Mangesh Hattikudur: test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: even how a couple's health will be affected by one another.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: It's all on a scale of 36 points, and any

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Mangesh Hattikudur: match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered. But anything over 32,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: that's something you want to lock down immediately.

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Lalita Hattikudur: My parents want to make sure that the man I married

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Lalita Hattikudur: did not yell at me... so she asked the astrology, you know, how

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Lalita Hattikudur: is his nature? So the astrologer told Amma that he

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Lalita Hattikudur: was a gentle creature you know, never lost his temper.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: So this part is true: I've only ever heard my

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Mangesh Hattikudur: dad yell a handful of times, and most of that

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Mangesh Hattikudur: was when our dog Lupini would just race out of

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Mangesh Hattikudur: the house, and he would run after her with this

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Mangesh Hattikudur: like slice of Kraft singles cheese, just waving it to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: try to tempt her back. And it always worked because

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Mangesh Hattikudur: she was super greedy.

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Lalita Hattikudur: But one fault he'd have has never come on time

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Lalita Hattikudur: to the table to have dinner. And we thought it

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Lalita Hattikudur: was a big joke and that came true. We couldn't

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Lalita Hattikudur: believe that astrology could be that powerful to tell a

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Lalita Hattikudur: quirk like that.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: Wasn't there something else with the mother-in-law?

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Lalita Hattikudur: The mother-in-law? Yes, they said that I would be best

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Lalita Hattikudur: for a boy that did not have a mother. I

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Lalita Hattikudur: really don't know. They said was something to do with

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Lalita Hattikudur: the stars, and if I had a mother-in-law, it wouldn't

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Lalita Hattikudur: go well. So here Umesh had lost his mother when

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Lalita Hattikudur: he was under a year, I think, or just about

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Lalita Hattikudur: a year. So it was perfect.

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Mangesh Hattikudur: This is something I think about a lot, how astrology

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Mangesh Hattikudur: accounts for everything. My dad had an aaya or a nanny,

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Mangesh Hattikudur: but he never had a mother. His life was a

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Mangesh Hattikudur: series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds

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Mangesh Hattikudur: of miles from his home. It makes me sad to

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Mangesh Hattikudur: think about. But if his mom had survived, my parents

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Mangesh Hattikudur: would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure

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Mangesh Hattikudur: of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my

391
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,760
Mangesh Hattikudur: grandmom was working really hard to set her up, my

392
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: mom was not keen to get married.

393
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,879
Lalita Hattikudur: I wasn't ready. I was still studying and it was

394
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,359
Lalita Hattikudur: in my final year for master's studying linguistics. I didn't

395
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,680
Lalita Hattikudur: want to give that up, and I didn't want to

396
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:45,719
Lalita Hattikudur: get married that fast. So I felt like a Jersey Cow. I wasn't happy.

397
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,639
Lalita Hattikudur: And things were really moving faster than I ever expected,

398
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,520
Lalita Hattikudur: so I said, I'm going to foil this.

399
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Mangesh Hattikudur: So, just to get the picture, a typical woman hoping

400
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,800
Mangesh Hattikudur: for a match would be waiting, sitting by her parents,

401
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,399
Mangesh Hattikudur: dressed in a sari or something traditional-- like making a

402
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,159
Mangesh Hattikudur: big show of what a quiet and obedient wife they

403
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: could be. And instead...

404
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,480
Lalita Hattikudur: I had a mini-skirt on. And I had a Lambretta. I rode

405
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,200
Lalita Hattikudur: that and came.

406
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,840
Mangesh Hattikudur: Oh, and she's also late. Like my mom is the

407
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,760
Mangesh Hattikudur: most punctual person I know. She gets to the airport

408
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,119
Mangesh Hattikudur: three hours ahead of time, and that's since I was

409
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,439
Mangesh Hattikudur: a kid. So she's clearly trying to tank this thing.

410
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,213
Lalita Hattikudur: And my hair-- I had let it loose. It was curly and

411
00:24:30,213 --> 00:24:33,840
Lalita Hattikudur: wasn't done. But instead, you know, Umesh's aunt said: "Oh,

412
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,920
Lalita Hattikudur: that's no problem. We love modern girls!"

413
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: What type of woman do you think Ammama was expecting

414
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:39,879
Mangesh Hattikudur: to present?

415
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,680
Lalita Hattikudur: She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive

416
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,080
Lalita Hattikudur: and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and

417
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,120
Lalita Hattikudur: an animal lover.

418
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Mangesh Hattikudur: But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was

419
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:55,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: sure to tell my dad's family this:

420
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,240
Lalita Hattikudur: I had no interest in cooking.

421
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: Anyway, despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen

422
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she

423
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: somehow still won my dad's family over.

424
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,960
Lalita Hattikudur: So Amma said: "here's the deal. Let him write to you.

425
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,640
Lalita Hattikudur: If you don't like him, it's fine."

426
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,000
Mangesh Hattikudur: He was a charming writer.

427
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,480
Lalita Hattikudur: He was a charming writer.

428
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,240
Mangesh Hattikudur: So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,

429
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,439
Mangesh Hattikudur: and when they finally met in person?

430
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,360
Lalita Hattikudur: ... you know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, "oh,

431
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,199
Lalita Hattikudur: this is great. I can handle him."

432
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,119
Mangesh Hattikudur: My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are

433
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,240
Mangesh Hattikudur: lots of wonderful bits... things that make me think those

434
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,119
Mangesh Hattikudur: 32 points mean something. Like once when they were young, they visited Paris,

435
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: and they went to dinner at this fancy restaurant with

436
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,199
Mangesh Hattikudur: a ballroom, and an orchestra started playing and no one

437
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,000
Mangesh Hattikudur: was dancing... crickets! So my dad just whisked my mom

438
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: onto the dance floor and then slowly everyone in the

439
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,159
Mangesh Hattikudur: place joins in. And when my parents went back to

440
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: their table, the band leader had actually sent them this

441
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank you for livening

442
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,479
Mangesh Hattikudur: the place up, and for getting everyone dancing. I mean,

443
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,880
Mangesh Hattikudur: if astrology can promise you those sorts of scenes, it's

444
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: like who wouldn't listen?

445
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: Of course, astrology has done damage in the family too.

446
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: Here's my mom telling me about an arranged marriage gone wrong:

447
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,840
Lalita Hattikudur: My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the

448
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,480
Lalita Hattikudur: horoscope matched with him.

449
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: Who's your cousin, Nana?

450
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,639
Lalita Hattikudur: Nana from Mangalore. So there was a danger of his

451
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,639
Lalita Hattikudur: brother dying if the girl married Nana.

452
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,840
Mangesh Hattikudur: The astrologers predicted that if the couple went through with

453
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,000
Mangesh Hattikudur: the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it could lead

454
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,840
Mangesh Hattikudur: to Nana's brother's death. I mean, who wants that on

455
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: their hands, even if it's putting your chances for love

456
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:46,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: at risk.

457
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,399
Lalita Hattikudur: So to this day, he still a bachelor.

458
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: Really? Well, what do you think about that?

459
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,280
Lalita Hattikudur: It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,

460
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,280
Lalita Hattikudur: but he just was dejected. He said no more girls; no more horoscopes. So he's still a bachelor.

461
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: That's heartbreaking.

462
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,840
Lalita Hattikudur: It is really is.

463
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me: First,

464
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,702
Mangesh Hattikudur: the chasm between the way Americans and Indians use astrology?

465
00:27:25,702 --> 00:27:29,159
Mangesh Hattikudur: That only felt wider. Like no app was going to

466
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: tell you to quit your MBA to marry some guy

467
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,080
Mangesh Hattikudur: in America, or to break it off with this girl

468
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,639
Mangesh Hattikudur: because it could bring bad luck or death to another

469
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: family member. Like the starkness of the way Indian astrology

470
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,119
Mangesh Hattikudur: can be used to control lives-- it felt so dark.

471
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: But also... pretty intriguing. Like, it only made me want

472
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered

473
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,480
Mangesh Hattikudur: is this piece of advice A.J. gave me about really

474
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: embracing the show.

475
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,120
A.J. Jacobs: I think you gotta go all in. So you've got

476
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,440
A.J. Jacobs: to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.

477
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,720
A.J. Jacobs: Figure out when you should start; when should the air

478
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,840
A.J. Jacobs: date be; who should you hire to help you? Should

479
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,600
A.J. Jacobs: it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go for it,

480
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,240
A.J. Jacobs: because that's one way to test it is to see:

481
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:19,600
A.J. Jacobs: does it work for you?

482
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,679
Mangesh Hattikudur: So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve

483
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and

484
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: also have some fun with it. But what I didn't

485
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,880
Mangesh Hattikudur: know was that that visit was going to change my life.

486
00:28:50,200 --> 00:29:16,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER FIVE: WE GO TO QUEENS

487
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,080
Mangesh Hattikudur: On April 9th, I headed to Queens to meet an astrologer.

488
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: He's someone my friend and showrunner for the show, Mary

489
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,760
Mangesh Hattikudur: recommended that I reached out to. And coincidentally, he happened

490
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,080
Mangesh Hattikudur: to be an astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used.

491
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:13,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: Hey, Adit.

492
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:13,600
Aditya: Hey, how's it going?

493
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:14,293
Mangesh Hattikudur: How are you?

494
00:29:14,293 --> 00:29:14,314
Aditya: Good, good.

495
00:29:14,314 --> 00:29:20,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: Adit is another rational type. He's kind of this white-shoe lawyer;

496
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,040
Mangesh Hattikudur: masters from Cambridge. And he used this astrologer in a

497
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: difficult time... and apparently the predictions had proven accurate. So

498
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: Adit actually wanted to see him again. So I took

499
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: a train to Jackson Heights to meet Dr Rakesh Kumar. And we

500
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: entered his white wood frame office. From the outside, it's

501
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: kind of nondescript. Like this row house. But when you

502
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: opened the door, you immediately sensed these temple-like vibes. So

503
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: I took off my shoes at the entrance, walked through

504
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: a fog of sweet sandalwood, and there were these massive

505
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,800
Mangesh Hattikudur: photos of his guru on the wall. And then I

506
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: turned into this tiny room with a wooden desk, and

507
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: it had a giant stack of books on it with

508
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: a little black laptop on top. Looking around, I realized

509
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: how fun this is. I'm here on this field trip

510
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: with my cousin, this astrology adventure. And I'm so ready

511
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:22,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience. Dr

512
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: Kumar very sweetly welcomes me. And he closes his emails.

513
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: And then, using the information I sent him a few

514
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: days before, he pulls up my chart and turns on

515
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:32,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: his recorder.

516
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,720
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: So Mangesh, looking at the chart: May 1, 1979. 12:04 in the afternoon

517
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,760
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: in Summit, New Jersey. You're born on a Tuesday. You

518
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,240
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: have the sign cancer rising....

519
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: I've got to say, I was a little surprised by

520
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: how quickly Dr Kumar dives in. It seems like he's

521
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,

522
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,600
Mangesh Hattikudur: but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix.

523
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I

524
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: really want to do is asked Dr Kumar about the show.

525
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Mangesh Hattikudur: I thought it would be fun if there were these

526
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Mangesh Hattikudur: auspicious dates for my podcast, or if you could predict

527
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,064
Mangesh Hattikudur: something about how many people would listen. But first-- he

528
00:31:12,064 --> 00:31:13,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: had some questions for me.

529
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,160
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: So how's what been since January?

530
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: Um, that's when I decided to quit my job.

531
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,440
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: So either you would have quit your job, or the

532
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,760
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: job would have quit you. One of those things because

533
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,800
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: the times are such, because it impacts your karma-chetra, you're work area. It's

534
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,400
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: so ironic, you come here today. Four days from now-- April 13 onwards,

535
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: thereafter a new chapter of your life begins. Another beginning

536
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,560
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: of your life, which will be very good.

537
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,040
Mangesh Hattikudur: This is what I came for. I write down April

538
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: 13th in my notebook and I circle it big. Four

539
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,240
Mangesh Hattikudur: days from now. That's the date I'm going to get

540
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: started on my show.

541
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: Dr Kumar continues with more work related things. He says

542
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: foreign travel is in the cards, which is super exciting,

543
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: and that I should wear an emerald to improve my

544
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: communication skills, which is funny. I make a note to

545
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: do an episode on gems and vedic astrology down the line.

546
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: But the best part is that Dr Kumar seems to

547
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: think this whole podcast will go really well:

548
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,000
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: So it's very profound. So you'll make it big in life.

549
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: You'll be very successful in everything, because your planets show that.

550
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm so excited about all this tape. Getting a start

551
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,000
Mangesh Hattikudur: date for the show; the talk of gems; this prediction

552
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,800
Mangesh Hattikudur: that everything might go well, that I'm caught off guard

553
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: by Dr Kumar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.

554
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: Tell me something about your father. Um, like what he did

555
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,400
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: for work or it still does.

556
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: He's a chemical engineer. He's retired. He's ill right now.

557
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: Listening back, I don't know why I mentioned my dad

558
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: was ill. Dr Kumar hadn't asked, and maybe it's because

559
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,240
Mangesh Hattikudur: I was trying to participate fully, like I thought I

560
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: should let him know. Years ago my dad was diagnosed

561
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: with cancer, but he actually sailed through that treatment and

562
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,720
Mangesh Hattikudur: he's been cancer-free for a while now. But recently he

563
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: broke a rib reaching for something, which was odd. And

564
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: then he also had this slight boost in some liver counts,

565
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: which his doctor told him not to worry about.

566
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,880
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: Because that's why I asked again: from the time he

567
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,200
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: started a couple of years back, till now, situation doesn't

568
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,240
Dr. Rakesh Kumar: look good for father. There is risk to father.

569
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: This thing about my dad? It was a throwaway line

570
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,560
Mangesh Hattikudur: in the middle of an hour and a half interview.

571
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't even know how closely I was listening. By

572
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.

573
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,480
Mangesh Hattikudur: I had over an hour of material and I was

574
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,280
Mangesh Hattikudur: cutting tape my head as I was asking questions. And

575
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,320
Mangesh Hattikudur: I know I felt good. I thanked Dr Kumar for

576
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: his time, and I let him run off to feed

577
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,946
Mangesh Hattikudur: his mother lunch, which he does every day. And then

578
00:34:03,946 --> 00:34:06,080
Mangesh Hattikudur: my cousin and I walked off to get fresh dosas

579
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: and idlis at one of the many canteens that dot this

580
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: area of Jackson Heights.

581
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:14,480
Aditya: Table for two? Thank you.

582
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: And then twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating

583
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: what's real about astrology and what isn't and how can

584
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,919
Mangesh Hattikudur: you even tell, right? I received this email from my dad.

585
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:37,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: It read: we just received the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately,

586
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: the news is not as good as it could be.

587
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: We'll talk to the doctors and let you know as soon

588
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:50,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: as we can. Study results diffuse metastatic disease throughout the

589
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: liver and bones from unknown primary.

590
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: The cancer had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.

591
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,799
Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.

592
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this

593
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my chai.

594
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,399
Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't know what to write, so I just tap out:

595
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: "I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit."

596
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,279
Mangesh Hattikudur: And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I

597
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: get to Atlanta?

598
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: Next week on Skyline Drive, we take a train to

599
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,200
Mangesh Hattikudur: Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who secretly uses astrology behind

600
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: her clients' backs, and hang out with a 74-year old

601
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Mangesh Hattikudur: who just wants to know:

602
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,560
Jean: Am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?

603
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: And we use astrology to get her an answer.

604
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,799
Mangesh Hattikudur: Thank you so much for listening. I have so many

605
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,120
Mangesh Hattikudur: people to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope

606
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: and iHeart Podcasts. The show is hosted and written by

607
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,279
Mangesh Hattikudur: me Mangesh Hattikudur, with a ton of help, like SO MUCH HELP from

608
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,040
Mangesh Hattikudur: these wonderful people. Mary Phillips-Sandy is our cat-loving supervising producer.

609
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,479
Mangesh Hattikudur: Mitra Bonshahi produced this whole thing, despite my constantly getting

610
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: in the way. Mark Lotto is our incredible story editor

611
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,960
Mangesh Hattikudur: who even suffered a trip to India with me. This

612
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,400
Mangesh Hattikudur: episode was mixed by my pal at Soundboard with scoring

613
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: from Botany. The song Yo la Mango is my absolute favorite. Um,

614
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,279
Mangesh Hattikudur: the insane music in between is courtesy of Azadi Records,

615
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: Himanshu Suri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If you want to

616
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,640
Mangesh Hattikudur: hear more, we made you a mixtape, just check out

617
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,800
Mangesh Hattikudur: the show notes. Additional production and research support from the

618
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:13,080
Mangesh Hattikudur: wonderful Anna Rubinova, Dhruv Shiva Rao, Lucas Reilly, Bethanne Macaluso, Aditya Basrur,

619
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,480
Mangesh Hattikudur: and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs. There's also my superstar

620
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,440
Mangesh Hattikudur: Aunt Suman "the Woman" Bakshi, and my cousin Arjun Bakshi who helped me

621
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: out of a giant pinch abroad. The show is executive

622
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: produced from iHeart by my good pal Nikki Ettore and Katrina Norvell.

623
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: This show would not have happened without the support of

624
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,279
Mangesh Hattikudur: my friends at Kaleidoscope, starting with my good pal Oz Woloshyn,

625
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,359
Mangesh Hattikudur: who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.

626
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,680
Mangesh Hattikudur: Also Kate Osborne for her spot-on notes, Costas Linos, for

627
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,920
Mangesh Hattikudur: his encouragement and Vahini Shori for her delightful suggestions. I

628
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,719
Mangesh Hattikudur: also want to give a little special thanks to all

629
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,360
Mangesh Hattikudur: the kiddos who bore with us through this production: Henry, Ruby, Julian, Grendel,

630
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,239
Mangesh Hattikudur: Lu and Little Enzo Ettore. All my friends at iHeart,

631
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,279
Mangesh Hattikudur: including Bob, Conal, Will, Carrie, Nathan, Jason, Jeri, my New

632
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,439
Mangesh Hattikudur: York and Atlanta Crews. There are too many to name.

633
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,800
Mangesh Hattikudur: Also Shanta, Saurabh, my family in India, my family in the States,

634
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,839
Mangesh Hattikudur: my friend Noel Brown who read this episode's warning... Check

635
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,799
Mangesh Hattikudur: out his shows: Ridiculous History and Stuff They Don't Want

636
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,840
Mangesh Hattikudur: You To Know. And just one last thank you: to

637
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Mangesh Hattikudur: my Amma and my dad, Lalita and Umesh Hattikudur, who I

638
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,160
Mangesh Hattikudur: thank my lucky stars for. Thank you so much for listening.