1
00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,840
Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholtz on Boomberg Radio.

2
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,879
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have a special guest.

3
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: Her name is Kara Swisher. And if you are remotely

4
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: interested in anything related to technology, media, venture capital, CEO's privacy,

5
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: the weaponization of social media, and just about anything else

6
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: you might have seen about technology, well then you're in

7
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,240
Speaker 1: for quite the treat. We went for about eight hours.

8
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: We took time out for sleeping and meals and basically

9
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:46,519
Speaker 1: covered everything, uh from the rise of technology, how people

10
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,279
Speaker 1: completely did not see this coming, what technology is going

11
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,159
Speaker 1: to do to us in the future, and who the

12
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 1: hell is this Scott Galloway guy anyway, So I could

13
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: tell you all about it, but rather than do that,

14
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shut up and say my conversation with

15
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 1: Kara Swisher. This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts

16
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Masters

17
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special guests this

18
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,640
Speaker 1: week is Kara Swisher. She is the co founder of Recode,

19
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 1: sold recently to Vox. Before that, she was the longstanding

20
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: technology journalist along with Walt Mossburg over at the Wall

21
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 1: Street Journal. She is the author of a number of books,

22
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,759
Speaker 1: including How Steve Case Beat Bill Gates and its sequel,

23
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: There Must Be a Pony in Here Somewhere. She won

24
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 1: the Gerald Loebe Award for Excellence in Business Journalism and

25
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 1: is the co host of one of my favorite podcasts,

26
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: Pivot with Scott Galloway. Kara Swisher. Welcome to Bloomberg. I'm

27
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: very impressive with myself. Well, you have a nice list

28
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 1: of accomplishments. I was discussed saying your work with somebody

29
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 1: and they said, she's really a journalist, right, And I'm like, well,

30
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: she's also an entrepreneur. She's been very forward in terms

31
00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: of the conference business, in terms of um, the media business,

32
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: which she turned into a platform. I don't know if

33
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: it was ever publicly released. Um what Recode was sold?

34
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 1: Was that always private? Yeah? It was. It was a

35
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,359
Speaker 1: start up. Yeah, we sold ABO four or five years ago.

36
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 1: It was we had been funded by NBC and Terry Samuel,

37
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 1: who's taken ill now but he uh. We we got

38
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 1: twelve million dollars from them, and at the time that

39
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,800
Speaker 1: was a lot, but pretty soon it was it wasn't

40
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 1: a lot. A lot of content companies. It was sort

41
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 1: of this big boom in investing in content, and many

42
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 1: of my competitors got four or five times what I

43
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,239
Speaker 1: got six months later as a VC investment. Yeah, we

44
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 1: didn't have a VC. It was NBC and Terry he's

45
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,520
Speaker 1: a media investor, you know. And so I looked around.

46
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: I said this, I can't compete with this much money.

47
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 1: It's it's a bubble. And so I sold Box. I looked,

48
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,799
Speaker 1: I talked to a number of companies. I sold really

49
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: quickly after founding Well. No, I was at All Things

50
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: D for a dozen or more years, which was within

51
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,679
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal. UM, and I was at the

52
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,400
Speaker 1: in the journal for about a dozen more than a

53
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 1: dozen years, and but we had a skunk works inside

54
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: the journal, so it was owned by the journal, but

55
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 1: we ran it without their input. Really yeah, it was great, yeah,

56
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 1: and they were good and bad in different ways, but

57
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: um and then we left because we had some problems

58
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: with them, and then had it funded and we were

59
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: going to do it independently, but then I was like,

60
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: no way, this is gonna things. You have to be

61
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: really dynamic when you're an entrepreneur and realize, you know,

62
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: if someone if your competitors all have three times the

63
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 1: amount of funding. You do. You have a problem. You

64
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 1: can't be that good. And so especially in content because

65
00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: it's about hiring talent. And so we sold really quickly

66
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 1: within a year to Vox Media. Like yeah, I was like,

67
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm really good that way. I know

68
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 1: when to move. So that wasn't hundreds of millions of

69
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: dollars that It wasn't okay, and I just no, I

70
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 1: haven't I'm not going to hear but I'm not going

71
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 1: to going to it. But it's not. It doesn't worth anything.

72
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 1: I own the stock and Box Media whatever Box Media cells.

73
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: So it was so I won't harangue you about this,

74
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: but was I'm assuming this was an all stock trans Yes,

75
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: it was. We decided that O. Yeah, we could have

76
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 1: gotten cash, but we I felt like why not, Like

77
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 1: if I'm an entrepreneur, I should own the shop. And

78
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,719
Speaker 1: I so, I mean, I have quite a bit of

79
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: stock in Box Media. We'll see what happens. I mean

80
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 1: obviously now content, uh, content is now the blooms off

81
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 1: the rose there and you know Box is quite healthy.

82
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 1: But you know the others bezz feed and and Mike

83
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 1: of course closed, some of these others closed and so

84
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 1: and all of media is under stress and so, you know,

85
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 1: especially we're going to a recession and stuff. So it's

86
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 1: just whatever the stocks worth. We'll see, we'll see how

87
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,480
Speaker 1: it goes. Quite interesting. But I'm very well paid, Barry,

88
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I do, okay, you do, okay.

89
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,919
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the early parts

90
00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 1: of your career you come out of. Now, I know

91
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,720
Speaker 1: you have a mastress from Colombia. Was that the journalism

92
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 1: school or journalism school? Yeah? I went to Georgetown School

93
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 1: Foreign Service, which was in Washington, d C. It was

94
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,479
Speaker 1: actually my backup school. Now it's a very top ranking school.

95
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 1: But at the time, and can I tell you you

96
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 1: and I are not all that far apart in age

97
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,200
Speaker 1: the people who came into because of the demographics into

98
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:26,720
Speaker 1: college forty years ago, we're dealing with um relatively easy admissions.

99
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 1: And then the boom followed. It was the echo boom

100
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: made it much more challenging to get in. I didn't

101
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: get in. Everybody didn't get at Stanford. I wanted to

102
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,160
Speaker 1: go to Stanford, but my brother went to Stanford. UM.

103
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 1: But I I got into Georgetown, and it was in

104
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 1: the school FORIGN service, and I wanted to be I've

105
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: said this many times, a spy. I wanted to work

106
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 1: for the CIA, and I want to do analysis, very

107
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,839
Speaker 1: similar what I do now, reporting an analysis, just with

108
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: no one shooting it. Yes, exactly, Well, you never know,

109
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 1: um and so and I it was very interested in

110
00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 1: the military too, in military intelligence. And I was gay

111
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,840
Speaker 1: at the time. That was impossible you could get into

112
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 1: the military. You couldn't you had. It was don't ask,

113
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,720
Speaker 1: don't tell. Under the Clinton ministry and so I always tell.

114
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 1: So it was really hard to do that. Um and

115
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 1: then in the CIA, you haven't asked, ridiculous tell. It's

116
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 1: such a insane thing. Can I tell you? It's so shocking.

117
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 1: What right, It's so shocking to look back just twenty

118
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 1: years and say, what the hell are we thinking? Don't ask?

119
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: What are we still thinking? There's all these attacks on

120
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 1: transgender people. Now, well we you know, we're in an

121
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 1: alternative timeline. Now I'll discuss that later. We're not you think,

122
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,040
Speaker 1: so this is just what America is like. I'm sorry,

123
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, put a mirror to our faces. There's a

124
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,039
Speaker 1: great there's a great series going on. It's the six

125
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 1: nine series in the New York Times, and it's that.

126
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: Let me just say, this is what we are, and

127
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: if you it's part of us, it's not every part

128
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: of us, but it's not this dream of being this

129
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 1: incredibly meritocurtency with everybody getting a chance. It's just not. So.

130
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,520
Speaker 1: So let me fast forward to a question I'm gonna

131
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 1: was planning on asking you later. How much of this

132
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 1: that we're discussing here is a function that forty years ago,

133
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 1: if you were a crazy um nazi, racist, homophobe, whatever

134
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 1: it was, you would be the guy mumbling to yourself

135
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 1: outside the library, but you didn't have the ability to

136
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 1: coordinate nationally well that there were tons of them and people.

137
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 1: The things people said to me thirty years ago about

138
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 1: being gay was just astonishing. Like today would not be

139
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 1: allowed obviously, or in some places it would, but it was.

140
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,880
Speaker 1: The change has been so drastic around gay people. But

141
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 1: at the time, I couldn't be what I wanted. I

142
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be in the military, my dad was in

143
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 1: the military, and I just couldn't. There was, you know,

144
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: I really wanted to be like compared like you know,

145
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 1: people always surprised I'm like, I'm really quite. I really

146
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: think the military can be great in a lot of ways,

147
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 1: has a lot of problems like anything else. Um, but

148
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, yeah that Scott was talking about that the

149
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: other day, and before the sort of the ability to

150
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 1: unify and have have places to meet for people who

151
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 1: have issues racists like white supremacists, the Internet has helped

152
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 1: them drastically. And I talked about that in my first

153
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: book in ninety seven. This was a place where you

154
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: can either gather for good like quilters or people parents

155
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: and you know, people who want to know, well, these

156
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: communities about different. What happened is all these people were

157
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 1: and wherever Idaho, wherever, they're everywhere, they just were wolves. Yeah,

158
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 1: and so now they can find places to gather. It's

159
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: it's they create these gathering places which and with a

160
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: lot of tools from video too, and so it's a

161
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: really great place to radicalize people. You know, that's the

162
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: problem with the Internet. This tool it can be you know,

163
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 1: it's like a knife. It can be used in a

164
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 1: lot of different ways, and so in a lot of

165
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 1: ways it's used to kill people. So I've watched your

166
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: thought evolve on whether or not this is in response

167
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: to most recently to eight chan and read it basically

168
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 1: saying we should not be a gathering place for white

169
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: supremacists and others who are plotting to kill people. You've

170
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: kind of moved a little bit about whether companies like

171
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 1: registrars domain registrars or or I'm moved. I think they

172
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,920
Speaker 1: should take them off. I don't. I've never that's not

173
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,040
Speaker 1: an evolution. No, No, I'm actually were more of a

174
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,600
Speaker 1: First Amenda you misreading it because I think I find

175
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,599
Speaker 1: the intellectual capacity of most people still on Valley to

176
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 1: be light, you know, in terms of ethics, in terms

177
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 1: of historical knowledge and everything, and so they have this

178
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 1: I call it libertarian light. You know, they're like, I'm

179
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,080
Speaker 1: a libertarian, I'm a first man. I'm like, explain it

180
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,959
Speaker 1: for me, and you know, I have studied this so

181
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 1: I know what it is. And they're like, anybody can

182
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: say anything. I'm like, no, that's not what the First

183
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,680
Speaker 1: Amendment says. It says Congress shall make no law. Just Congress,

184
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 1: not Twitter, not Facebook. Not like they're just so like

185
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 1: there's many people and they're highly educated in certain ways,

186
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: but in general, it's libertarian light. You know what I mean,

187
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,640
Speaker 1: people should do what they want. That's like, that's what

188
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: a twelve three year old says. I can do what

189
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,559
Speaker 1: I want, but you can't. And so I think legitimate

190
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 1: companies like Facebook, like Twitter, like Google have responsibility. And

191
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 1: I've always thought companies, whether they're chemical companies or Wall

192
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 1: Street companies or Bloomberg or any or Vox, we have

193
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 1: a responsibility to society. You know, legitimate companies the others

194
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: can create these things. But it doesn't mean that this

195
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,000
Speaker 1: this this idea that you collect all the money and

196
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: have none of the responsibilities, okay, because it's not okay.

197
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 1: Now they can do it, but I can say this

198
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 1: is not okay, quite quite interesting. You know, you can

199
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: decide who you would do business with. I don't like,

200
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, I like you can decide who you do

201
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: business with. And you know, cloud Flare is the company

202
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: that I wrote about recently in the New York Times.

203
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: I read a column their weekly. Um, you know, they

204
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 1: this guy who I've interviewed several times, Matthew Prince. Um,

205
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 1: you know, he he's been sort of he's changed my

206
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 1: I've suddenly realized this is terrible, and I'm like, welcome

207
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 1: to the world. Like, have you not been paying attention

208
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 1: and they cut off a jan um. But you know,

209
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,600
Speaker 1: people can make their decisions. They just have to live

210
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 1: with their decisions. If you want to facilitate white supremacy,

211
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,120
Speaker 1: own it, like own what you're doing, and that's what

212
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,760
Speaker 1: they'd like to do. They'd like to do it. And

213
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 1: then say, why are you criticizing me? So they you know,

214
00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,959
Speaker 1: expressing my first memory. I love the fact that the

215
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,840
Speaker 1: Internet identifies all these people who are participating in these

216
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 1: white supremacy marches and basically calls out their bosses and

217
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 1: gets them fired. Yeah, you want to march here, go ahead,

218
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: just don't expect to serve star. It's just people. People

219
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 1: can do whatever they want. It's just you know, the

220
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: whole controversy on Alex Jones for example. You know, this vile,

221
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: vile human being, just on every measure, he's a vile person.

222
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: He can have a website anywhere on the Internet. No

223
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 1: one's stopping him. People who make these tools can either

224
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,680
Speaker 1: decide to kick him off or not. That's that's the deal, right.

225
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 1: So and their commercial businesses and if I people choose

226
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: not to do business with them, they're not nothing wrong

227
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,959
Speaker 1: with companies like that. Advertisers pointing out to advertisers pointing

228
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 1: out to whatever, it's not it's the way, you know,

229
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: boycotts have gone on for century. It's not. This is

230
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,080
Speaker 1: not a new thing kind of thing. And I think

231
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 1: it's just becomes so um amplified and weaponized in this

232
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,319
Speaker 1: time because it's so viral, it's so so the news

233
00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 1: we get is so twitchy and so quick that people

234
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: get and and the emotions get so easily in a

235
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: rage that people think it's different. Um. But what's interesting

236
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,760
Speaker 1: is that they um, you know, they they have their spaces.

237
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: When when I was when the Alex Jones things was happening,

238
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,800
Speaker 1: I was talking to all the major platforms and they're like, well,

239
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 1: everybody has a right, you know, to have a place.

240
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you're going to kick him off just

241
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: so you know, because he's broken your rules. Like they

242
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 1: made rules. What's the point of your stupid rules if

243
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 1: you're not going to enforce them? Well, you know it's complicated.

244
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, you made rules, he broke on. Why

245
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 1: isn't he off? Like you know, and they had all

246
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 1: these weird rules, and it's like, if you're gonna make rules,

247
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 1: keep to them. You have a responsibility to the society

248
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: at large, and you know, in things that are pretty

249
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,800
Speaker 1: much you know, there's all kinds of edge cases, there's

250
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: all kinds of like whatever they can be, but there's

251
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,080
Speaker 1: lots of places where people to go. You know, for example,

252
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: like with with Twitter, there they've it's been so haphazard

253
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 1: with them that you know that we've kicked off Melo whatever,

254
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, we kick him off, but not the sky.

255
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,920
Speaker 1: But we kicked this person, but not that guy. It's like,

256
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: it just doesn't make any sense to people. And I

257
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 1: think if everyone understood the rules and then when you

258
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: break them, that's that what they've managed to do is

259
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 1: make people think these things are public squares when they're

260
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,800
Speaker 1: private squares and they own everything and they get paid

261
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: for everything, and they don't have any responsibility for monitoring them.

262
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,320
Speaker 1: So they've made these very filthy public private squares and

263
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 1: it's the only place to gather. And then they say,

264
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 1: we don't have any responsibility for cleaning. I just happened

265
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 1: this morning to be scanning Twitter and I saw sleeping giants.

266
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: Oh him, Yeah, he's great, right, just mentioned that last

267
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 1: night on Tucker Calson show, Dell was advertising, and you know,

268
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 1: you think that a big broad name like that would

269
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 1: be a little savvy er. Oh you know what, they

270
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 1: wait until the things blow over and then they go

271
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,200
Speaker 1: back that. You know, they just want to sell. But

272
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: but here's the thing you're gonna get cold out for that.

273
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, this is the world. Guess what.

274
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,199
Speaker 1: And that's you know that happened before. Remember Anita Brian

275
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,559
Speaker 1: the orange juice thing with gay That's right, everyone was

276
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 1: dumping orange juice? Was that unfair to Anita Brian? It

277
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: doesn't matter she had her opinion. This is what it

278
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,560
Speaker 1: costs to have her opinion. And I think, um, you know,

279
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: every everything costs, and people don't realize that like they

280
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,199
Speaker 1: We live in a world where everyone's I can say

281
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 1: whatever I want, like you certainly can, but it certainly

282
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 1: costs the same with me, same with everybody else. Be

283
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: an adult about it. What you're doing. Let's talk a

284
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 1: little bit about what you're doing, um with your career

285
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 1: now and how you began. What was it like in

286
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: the early nineties covering technology. I don't think people there's

287
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 1: nobody covering that writes it was me and some other guy.

288
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 1: I don't think people really understood how important technology was

289
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: going to be to society, the economy. Everything it had

290
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,200
Speaker 1: been covered, you know, chips and Microsoft essentially in software,

291
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 1: chips and software. We'd been either covered as a as

292
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: a as a as a product issue like we made

293
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 1: Windows ten. Here's the news story, which is not a

294
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 1: news story when they at least something, but it used

295
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 1: to be UM and so you know when the hoop

296
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: la on that was insane. I was at that event, UM,

297
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: So you know, I think what was interesting. What I

298
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 1: thought about it is this was an entirely new industry

299
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: being created, the Internet industry, and you had to treat

300
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: it like the beginnings of electricity or the beginning of

301
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 1: TV or the beginning of radio. And so that's how

302
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: I looked at it. And so one of the things

303
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: I told when I first started covering at the Washing

304
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: Post and then later at the Wall Street Journal, what

305
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: I told Manners is I'm not going to tell you

306
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 1: how the watchworking. I'll tell you what time it is,

307
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 1: and that's what the most important story, like who are

308
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 1: these people? And I spent a lot of time understanding

309
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 1: the culture that was growing because it was all new.

310
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 1: Like the I was there, I wrote one of the

311
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: first stories when the Internet was commercialized. When I was

312
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: at the Washington Post. I think, I mean, nobody was

313
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 1: paying attention to, you know, what al Gore was doing. Yes,

314
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: I was covering it then, and so I really there

315
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 1: was a moment where I was like, this is going

316
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 1: to be the most important change in media and communications

317
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: in history, like so far, and there's been a lot.

318
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: I thought, catch on, Yeah I did. I kept saying,

319
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 1: you know, two things I spent a lot of time

320
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: doing is talking about um. I told I tell a

321
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 1: story that absolutely was a moment where I downloaded a

322
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: Calvin and Hobbs book onto a server and I messed

323
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: up the server. It was so big, you know, and

324
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: the pictures and the person who was running the technology

325
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 1: was like what did you do? And I'm like, I

326
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 1: downloaded a book, I put it in Like what you that?

327
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: And then like he's like so what, I'm like, so

328
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 1: what don't you get at you idiot? Like you know,

329
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: this is gonna everything is going to be digitized. And

330
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 1: I kept saying everything is going to be digitized everything,

331
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: And I say this over and over again. Everything that

332
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: can be digitized will be digitized. Jobs, everything, It eats everything,

333
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 1: not just Mark andres and software is eating the world.

334
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 1: Digital is eating the world. You know, you sound a

335
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: bit like Andresen who describes software software, but he describes

336
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs that he knows he's onto something when they're trying

337
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 1: to explain their business to a VC and they get

338
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 1: frustrated and angry, like, how do you not see this?

339
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: It's so obvious? You basically just said, well it was,

340
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 1: and it was. I would run around saying this and

341
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,360
Speaker 1: everyone's like, what are you talking about. I'm like, there's

342
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 1: not gonna be newspapers. There's not gonna be like I

343
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: would do that like the newspaper people. And then the

344
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 1: second part was mobile. And when I got to the journal,

345
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: I would just wrote a columnist the other day and

346
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: the Times about no one's going to own a car,

347
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: which caused quite a lot of consternation because like people

348
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 1: in the Midwestern or with pickup truck struck, I want

349
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 1: my pickup trup. I said, have your pickup truck. But

350
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like only like you don't understand, like

351
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: even you will not have a car like cities, absolutely

352
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: not you. Very soon after it'll be all automated and

353
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: everything else or they'll be floating or whatever and so um.

354
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 1: So I wrote a piece when I write when I

355
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 1: got to the journal in called cutting the Cord. Yeah,

356
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: and I had a picture of me with chords and

357
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: I had a big you know places, and I said,

358
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 1: you will not have a landline phone. You will carry

359
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 1: around this device. It will get smaller. And because they

360
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 1: were big at the time, you know you small and

361
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 1: tomorrow there will be your entire computer. It will be

362
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 1: on the go, be mobile. You will this will be

363
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 1: the center of your news. And it was when I

364
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: go back and read it, I'm like, wow, that was

365
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 1: pretty smart. Good um. But I kept insisting it and

366
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: it made so much sense, like it obviously like when

367
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 1: I think about cars, or when I think about certain

368
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 1: jobs being eliminated. Like I was trying to alert the

369
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 1: other and I'm like, your job is going to go

370
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: like it's so patterned match. AI will take over everything

371
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 1: you do except for the creativity part. No, it's you know,

372
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: I think I said, everything you do is digitized, anything

373
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 1: that's by road, anything that's mechanical, not just mechanical, it

374
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: is so much more that really you could apply AI

375
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 1: principles to a robotic, any of the coming things, robotics, automation, uh,

376
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: self driving, um AI. It's just anything that can apply

377
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 1: to it does. So I think about though, what can change,

378
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 1: what's not going to be here? Whenever I get pushed

379
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: back when we discuss future technology, my favorite question to

380
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 1: ask people is, well, do you think people will still

381
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 1: be driving their own cars in a hundred years? No,

382
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: of course not. Okay, so next year, yeah I'll still be.

383
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: So really, the debate is weird. When does that transition

384
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 1: take place? And people can picture, but they can picture

385
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 1: twelve years from now. That's too difficult. Yeah, it's taking place.

386
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 1: It's place, and you know, it's the business model to

387
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 1: the business model of not owning a car and just

388
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 1: using Uber or some other source. Have something come by.

389
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: That's hard for a lot of people to conceptualize, even

390
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: though it appears they're already doing it. It's they've already

391
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 1: started to do. People do things without realizing. There's an

392
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 1: I forget, which I think it's I can't remember the

393
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,640
Speaker 1: poet Past are made by walking. That's what's happening here.

394
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: Past made by walking, and so I just like I'm

395
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: going to write a recap of what's happened since I

396
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 1: got rid of I saw in my car and I

397
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: have no vehicle, Like I have no vehicle, and the

398
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,679
Speaker 1: other like I called someone, I'm like, oh, we have

399
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,680
Speaker 1: to go get this. I'm like, oh, I don't have

400
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: a car. How am I going to do that? Like,

401
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't mean you're not going to drive

402
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: a car, it doesn't mean you're not going to rent

403
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 1: a car. I've just rented a car up and I'm

404
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: going to try to put put it in terms of money,

405
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: what I what I spent for that, what I used

406
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: to buy a car with. And when I called the

407
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 1: insurance company, I've had a car, you know, an insurance

408
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: policy for years forever. And uh, they're like, what's the

409
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: car you're replacing with? I go, no car, and they're

410
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,239
Speaker 1: like what I said, I never am going to own

411
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: a car. And it was the most fascinating discussion. I said,

412
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: you better watch out for your business because I'm not

413
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 1: going to insurance. But then I sat down to breakfast

414
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 1: with someone who's a lawyer and said, you know, when

415
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: you get on a scooter, if you don't have car insurance,

416
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: who covers if you hit someone when you're on a

417
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: scooter like tho. I was like, oh my god, I

418
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: do need interest, so you need insurance something different? Well,

419
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: but it gets taken away when you don't have a car.

420
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: It was fascinating and I'm like, oh my god, a

421
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: whole new business. Like but I was thinking, all car

422
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: insurance will go away. What will happen to those people?

423
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: But then there's the only business of people who are

424
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: on the move. You have to be covered anyway. It

425
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: was just interesting. Your amex probably covers you if you

426
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 1: rent it, rent the scooter, don't know, but it's like,

427
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. But there's whole new businesses to

428
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: be creative that. Immediately I was like, wow, I wouldn't

429
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 1: it be interesting to go into the insurance business without

430
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: only a car, but having a mobile insurance, a moving insurance,

431
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: like you physically moving through the world. However you decide

432
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: to do it. If you get into a vertical lift

433
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: and takeoff vehicles, you know there's are great, They're going

434
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: to be cool. I was mentioning, I've been waiting for

435
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: them for fIF They're coming. They'll be in San Francisco first,

436
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: so you come and ride them and there are I've

437
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: been tracking that There are a number of companies that

438
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: are relatively close, including one that's an old battery electric version. Um,

439
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to stick with it. But we're still I'm

440
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: waiting for my blade runner vehicle where the projection of

441
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: the highway is just a three three dimensional hologram that

442
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 1: you fly through. But hey, that was supposed to be.

443
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: Here are Hollywood people telling you, all right, so when

444
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 1: are we going to have When are we gonna have

445
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: personalized VTOL cars and taxis? You will be dead, Berry,

446
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: you will never experience. They may try one, but you're

447
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: not going to be So we're see. I agree with you.

448
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: I think it's less than a hundred years but more

449
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: than a decade. And I think it will be a

450
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: slow transition because people very local, lester. They'll be human,

451
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: that's right, that's another thing life extension. But there'll be

452
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: human and cars at the same time. Just like here

453
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: in New York. You know, there used to be the

454
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: elevated the trains, and when they first started, a lot

455
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: of people got run over by them when they were

456
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: down on the ground before they elevated where the high

457
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: line was. That's why they built the high line because

458
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: all these people are getting killed because they were like,

459
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: what's this. We have horses, and so horses would bang

460
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: into these electric vehicles all the time, and then there

461
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: weren't horses, and so that's what you know. There will

462
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: be human drivers, but then there won't be like that's

463
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: what's going out. And so I think that's what you

464
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: have to think about, is this transition period when and

465
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean people won't drive in certain places or

466
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: it's not, it'll just be different. It'll be just a

467
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: different experience. So you go from the Washington Post to

468
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, is that Mossberg got me there?

469
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: My my most important mentor so now he was covering technology.

470
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: He was the guy het a technology column, uh that

471
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 1: he wrote for many years. He started it um. His

472
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: first line of his first one was called personal Technology

473
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: in the Wall Street Journal. And as he had covered

474
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: the Defense Department, he had to the State Department. He was,

475
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: you know, Washington reporter and he just was st geeky.

476
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 1: And the first line of his column, which I think

477
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: was still relevant today, was technology is too hard to

478
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: use and it's not your fault, which I loved, which

479
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: is like so smart because they were sort of testing you,

480
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, with the products that again. But okay, um,

481
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: so he started that, and so he was there and

482
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: I interviewed him for my book on I well, because

483
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: he was the only person I perceived that understood the change.

484
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: Like everybody else was like, Oh, it's just online services.

485
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: We'll still have Time magazine. They're so important. I was like, no,

486
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: my magazine is over, like you know, like you know,

487
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: and he's the only one who got it. And he

488
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: and I really clicked immediately, and uh started. He got

489
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: me to come to the Journal to write about this

490
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: because he thought the Journal was not writing about it properly.

491
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: And I understood it, and I knew them all. I

492
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: knew Jeff Bezos. I knew Jeff Bezos. Wasn't Jeff Bezos

493
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: for a long time. Now he's Jeff Bezos Prime back

494
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: right whatever. He was just a guy. He was just

495
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: a startup guy that were really bad pants at a pants. Yeah,

496
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: a lot of plead becky pants. Um, you know, it's

497
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: so funny. They were all like the Google guys were

498
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: in a garage, the um, you know, just all of

499
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: them were like Ellen I met when he did this

500
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: thing called x dot com. He you know, he had

501
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: a full head of hair and was kind of geeky,

502
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: like what was what was elan? Originally? Was he part

503
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: of the PayPal No, he had a company called x

504
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: dot com and that was a payment company, and he

505
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: and they fought a lot PayPal PayPal, there was that group,

506
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: and then they they so he eventually they did march,

507
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: but there were two separate companies and they were quite

508
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: quite unpleasant rivals. And then they got together. So a

509
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: lot of people told that their big genius wasn't selling

510
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: it to eBay. Right. A lot of people came out

511
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: of that PayPal group, Mosque and Peter Thiel and a

512
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: whole run of folks in the tech world trace back

513
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: to that. So so I remember Walt's early works specifically

514
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: as a reviewer of services and computers and technology, but

515
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: you really came in covering the Internet business, the of

516
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: of the Internet, not so much as reviewer, but as

517
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: a straight up economic journalist, financial journal I was a

518
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: financial journalist. I think I had an interest in the products,

519
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, well it was great to

520
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: have Walter's de partner eventually because it was he had

521
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: that part of it covered. Um, he's a reporter to

522
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: by the way, like he was. One of the great

523
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: things about Walt Musburg as a reviewer was that he

524
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: was a reporter first and foremost, and so he reported

525
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: out these products. A lot of people who covered tech

526
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: we're just fan boys and just you know, just ridiculous.

527
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: And well, sometimes he loved stuff, sometimes he disliked it.

528
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: So it was so fair, you know, in terms of

529
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: how he did it. And I came in and covered

530
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: the business of it and tried to understand the stock

531
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: stuff and because there was a lot of you know,

532
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: early froth around a lot of these companies and what

533
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: was what was not true, what was true, what was

534
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: a Ponzi scheme? What was not? And so I covered

535
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: these early businesses, and I was quite bullish on the

536
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: whole big air sector. A lot of reporters who covered

537
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: the media at the time kept calling telling me I

538
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: was covering CB radio or a fad, and I didn't

539
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 1: think it was a bad I remember, those are One

540
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: of the guys who called the CB rate to me

541
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: is now working for a digital content company and he's

542
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: like Mr Internet Now. It's always amazing how how people

543
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: are still willing to believe whatever it is that keeps

544
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: their paycheck flowing. Well, I was very worried. That's the

545
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: reason I left the Washington Post because I was like,

546
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: when I loved Don Graham, who's the owner of the

547
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: Washington Post, but when I left, and he's such a

548
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: like an incredibly cordial and just a fine person. And

549
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: he said, you know, Carol, why are you leaving? And

550
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: I said, the waters rising and you're on the lower floodplain.

551
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: And what was their response to that? And he was

552
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: like ha ha ha, And I'm like, no, really, you

553
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 1: better because I had covered retail. I had covered retails,

554
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: So I covered Walmart's entrance into the retail space, the

555
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: death of wonderful retailers like Heckinger's and h. Woody's, Woodward

556
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: Lowthrop and garf Ankles were the two like the death

557
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: of depart You could see what was happening in the

558
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: original problem was Walmart, you know, and the big box stores.

559
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: But then it became Amazon and you could see glimmers

560
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: of it with with Craigslist and hitting the classified business.

561
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: Amazon still wasn't yet they but you could see it

562
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: see where it was going. And so um, so I

563
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: was like Wall Street Journal has a more defensible position

564
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: in media right now. Um, and so I went there,

565
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: I thought. But then the Washington Post, of course has

566
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: revived itself with ownership by bring it full circle. He

567
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: has done a wonderful job. I used to full disclosure,

568
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: I used to contribute to the Washington Post up until Um.

569
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: I think that the Washington Post has reasserted itself as

570
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: one of the three major papers in New York, and

571
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: you've written for all three figured of economics. They figured

572
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: out it's not just that it's a rich guy owning,

573
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: it's actually making money. They it's not none of these businesses,

574
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: not Times. They're not like massive money making throwing off

575
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: money business. Street Journal always had a million subscribers, which

576
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: is online subscribers, which is a lot for probably The

577
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Times isn't the best in this area. Well, post Trump election,

578
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: their subscription base has exploded. Also, they've done a good

579
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: job with a product like you can't you can't separate

580
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: the product from the text. Their product is really quite good.

581
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of these people figured

582
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: it out, and with the help of Bezos, who wasn't

583
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: going to be a twitchy owner. Neither of the Grahams,

584
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: whether they were wonderful owners. Um, I think that they

585
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: sort of made it through the difficult period and it

586
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: just rationalize what they were doing, and I could find

587
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: I can tell you every time I get my update

588
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 1: from Amazon that my bill for the Washington Post has

589
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: been passing stuff like that. That's an enormous benefit for

590
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that like that, just great journalism, great product.

591
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: I think of things always in terms of product. Is

592
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: that a good product? Like when I make stuff, this

593
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: is a good product. And if it's not a good product,

594
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I stopped making it. And then, unlike a lot of journalists,

595
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: I'll stop doing something if I don't think it's a

596
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: it's something that's worthwhile to the users, the readers, or

597
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: whoever is doing it. What what products? What products do

598
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: you think are really strong these days that recode box

599
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: is doing? And what are you watching? Because hey, let's

600
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: see how this developed? Is this too new? Is this

601
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: too different? Um? I'm i gonna tell you a new

602
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: idea I have that I love. We thought it the

603
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: other night. I was standing there and like, oh, this,

604
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: well if it's not out yet, but it's not. But

605
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: I was thinking, this is what I'm gonna do next.

606
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm always making something else, like I'm always look when

607
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: I started doing podcasting. For example, UM, when I started

608
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: doing Recode, everyone was like, what are you doing. I'm like, no,

609
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a voicey news based journalistic base but voicy,

610
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: funny site. Everyone's copied it since like what we did,

611
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: So it was Walton, I really did pioneer. When you

612
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: say voicey, what do you mean by that? Like Yahoo?

613
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: When I was covering Yahoo, Yahoo sucks, here's why narky. No, no, no,

614
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: we backed it with journalism, you know what I mean?

615
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: Or blunt blunt like guess what the guy who's running

616
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: Uber ain't going to be running Uber And here's why.

617
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, like saying things journalists say

618
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: to each other, but backing it up. And one of

619
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: the things that I had was it used to be

620
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: at the journal it's the to be sure statement that's

621
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: always in these stupid stories, to be sure. Like when

622
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: I was covering this company within it was that's the

623
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: way they yes, like this online grocery that what was it?

624
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: That first there was one for it, a lot of

625
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: money behind it. Listen, it's now figured out itself. At

626
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: the time, it was an insane like you looked at

627
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: the numbers, You're like are you kidding me? And Cosmo, Yeah,

628
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: that one one of them. And in New York City

629
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: like it was, it was you just sat there like

630
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: you're losing so much money on every delivery. It doesn't

631
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: mean it didn't work. Prime to work like you know

632
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: what I mean, there's not there's ways to figure it out.

633
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: The idea was a good one. I always try to

634
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: separate the idea again because he he talks about Chewi

635
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: being the modern dot com and now ju Wayne Wright,

636
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: who was the entrepremour behind pet stot com, is now

637
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: with the real real What an amazing business that is, right,

638
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: So that's the whole point. And so so when I

639
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: was writing about it, it was you. I was like,

640
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: this is this is this is terrible business. They can

641
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: scant go public. This is insane. And the editor at

642
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: the journal was like, well you have to, like, you know,

643
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: point out that this you could be wrong. I'm like,

644
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: I'm not wrong, this is like and and they were

645
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: like they're like, ha been And then you have to

646
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: do this to be sure. Some people say that this

647
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: business and I was like, to be sure some idiots

648
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: say and it was like, let me tut these idiots.

649
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: But but then I ran my own site, and then

650
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: I could say that like I can say that because

651
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: it's my site. And so we sort of pioneered that

652
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: and then it changed like everyone copied it. That's what

653
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: always happened. And then it wasn't the right like having

654
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: analog websites that people go to, it's a losing game

655
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: in in in the advertising business online. So then I

656
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: was like sitting there and I saw what is an

657
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: analog site? You mean like meat spaces or what. No. No, no,

658
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: just like the way we were doing recode ten years ago,

659
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: we changed it like it shouldn't look like a newspaper online.

660
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: It should be something not just that. No, we we

661
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: did something pioneering, but then it didn't work anymore, right,

662
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: and we tried something else, like I think the ability

663
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: to try something else, and so it just it's a

664
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: long way of getting into the podcast. I was sitting there,

665
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, I like these these mobile devices are now great,

666
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: these apps are now great. I'm gonna do this. I'm

667
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: gonna do interviews because because I had my code conference,

668
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 1: the Code conference at Walt and I did and I

669
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: was like, why not extend three sixty five days a year?

670
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Like I can only do seventeen interviews a CODE. It's

671
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: always Elon Mosk or Mark zucker from but there's always

672
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: fascinating people that one like you're doing here, And so

673
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: I was like, there's so many cool people that I

674
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: could do the same thing. People love the CODE conference.

675
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: Why not bring it out and make it free and

676
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: make it sense. So I started doing these interviews and

677
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: I remember like I literally had an intern in me

678
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: do it, and I'm running like I'm the head of

679
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: the site and I'm like, I'm not doing that anymore.

680
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing this, And so we started doing it and

681
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people had opinions are like, you know,

682
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: people aren't going to listen for an hour. I'm like, yeah,

683
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: they are, like you know they I was like I

684
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: literally had that yes exactly people, And I'm like, you

685
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: don't know, give me. People are in cars, people are

686
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: on bikes, and people are in treadmills. Millennials like snack

687
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: a Well, no they don't. They're smart. People are smart.

688
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: So it was like, well, I don't want these people

689
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: who like snack ables. They don't listen to me anyway.

690
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: So it was like I literally spent a lot of

691
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: time and I was like, I'm certain I'm right about this.

692
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: But then when we did the Galloway thing, Scott came

693
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: on the show because I had heard him at a

694
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: at a conference. I thought it was brilliant. It's got Galloway,

695
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: wo would you pivot with? And know I had interviewed

696
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: Ellen Zuckerberg, like the head of Google everything, and the

697
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: numbers for Scott when I saw them come in off

698
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: the freaking chart. And also he predicted the Amazon whole

699
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: food That thing happened the week that is such, predicted

700
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: it a year in advance, goes on your show a

701
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: week in advance and does it, and a week later, bang,

702
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: and people lost minds. People like, oh, he works in branding.

703
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: He must have known. He wrote about it literally twelve

704
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: so anyway, so he so that show went off the

705
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: charts before that happened too, and I was like, Hey,

706
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have one again and see what happens again

707
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: because it was our rapport, our discussion. He was so

708
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: insightful and smart, and so I was like, we're going

709
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: to start another podcast and it's going to be only

710
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, maybe twenty minutes, and it's not gonna be long.

711
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: It's gonna be quick, fast, topical in this and now

712
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: something like it needs to be an hour. I'm like, no,

713
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It needs to be this link because this

714
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: is what this is what it is, and it creates

715
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: a little scarcity, keeps people coming exactly. We may do

716
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: another one during the week. That's it. That's the talks.

717
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of advertising. A yeah, um, and

718
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: so what what you know? You just have to be

719
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: like you have to know what you are or know

720
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: what you're It's like cooking, Like I'm making a cake now,

721
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of people want to say what you

722
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: really should do is be boring you. I'm like, yeah,

723
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: but I'm making a cake and like, but be burging on.

724
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, go make your own. And so I

725
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: think people who are good at product know what the

726
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: product is and then are willing to make changes to

727
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: it when it doesn't work. So our conference, for example,

728
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to figure out what we've had seventeen

729
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: years making so much money at these conferences. By the way,

730
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: podcasts make a fortune because I think of things and

731
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: would hope businesses all the time. So anyway, so one

732
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: of the things like I'm Robb rethinking, like what isn't conference?

733
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: We have seventeen really successful years, but it's changed. So

734
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, I sit along, you know, and even to

735
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: the point and we're not doing this, But should I

736
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: keep doing it? Is it the right thing anymore? What

737
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: is the next thing? And so I'm constantly thinking, and

738
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: that's why I come up with this new thing that

739
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: I think is going to make a lot of money.

740
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: Also tell us what it is. I'm not gonna tell

741
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: you what it is. It's not that product. Well, when

742
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: it comes out, you'll have to exist. It exists in

743
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: Carra Swisher's break. That's it. So you got to be

744
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: careful crossing. The thing that I think about what Walton

745
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: I did is like when I think about what I'm

746
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: really proud of is we created a lot of jobs

747
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: for people, Like families lived on one idea that Walton

748
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: I had in nineteen. Whenever we did a two thousand

749
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: and two, Walton I thought of something in two two

750
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: and dozens of people have jobs. It's fascinating to me

751
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: to think that way. Like, and that was the all

752
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Things Digital platform for conferences. Yeah, all Things Digital conferences,

753
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, came out of a single idea how many

754
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: conferences are you guys do in a year? Now, well, see,

755
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: what is a conference? Right? Look we did this live

756
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of people in a room. Yeah, but I

757
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: don't I don't think that way. Like we have the

758
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: main conference, we have Code Commerce that's coming up in September,

759
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: We've got code Media. Um. But then Scott and I

760
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: did a live pivot the other day that was huge.

761
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: We sold out fourteen seconds we sold that. So now

762
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, live podcast things. You know, the pod

763
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: saves America? I don't really for two years? Really well,

764
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: but in a different like what should they be? Three

765
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: d people? Should be five hundred people? Should you get sponsors?

766
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: The sponsors were thrilled. Try y is is really been

767
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: doing that for decades? Yes they have exactly, but but

768
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: what about moving them around the country? Why not exactly?

769
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about that. So is that a conference?

770
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: It kind of is. What if you could add other

771
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: things onto a live podcast? Put comics there, put like

772
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: make it an event. What if you can add experiential

773
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: pop ups to it. I'm like constantly thinking, like, what's

774
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: the next version of analog gathering? That's smart? Smart is

775
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: the one thing the brand is always The brands I'd

776
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: like to make are always like what's smart? Like what

777
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: do smart people want to listen to? What is additive

778
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: to someone's life? Every time I get a tweet from

779
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: someone around Pivot, I'm getting a lot of them around Pivot.

780
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: I just really enjoy it and I always come up

781
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: with an insight. I'm like, who can ask for more

782
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: than that? What you're describing what you just did with

783
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: Scott is quote an evening with I mean, that's how

784
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: that's been, but it can be seen like and then

785
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: then the other day I was like, we have to

786
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: have swag. We can make a lot of money and swag,

787
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm always cut. That's what I want to think about.

788
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: And one of the things I like to think about

789
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: in products. Now we're gonna have swag. You can have.

790
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: You'll give you one free, but only one. Uma. I

791
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: never give away anything free. Um. The the things that

792
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: I think about when they were thinking about products, is

793
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: is it useful? Is it entertaining? Is it must have?

794
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: If you have one of those things, you usually have

795
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 1: a very successful projects. One. You don't need all three,

796
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: but if you have all three, that's killer. It's a killer.

797
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: You have two, but it has to be one of

798
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: those three things, right, And you don't think like a journalist,

799
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: you think like an entrepreneur, right exactly, And it's evident

800
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: in your discussion. I am going to uh, I do

801
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: journalism by the way you do journalism. I consume journalism.

802
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: My extra special guest today is Kara Swisher. She is

803
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: in desperate need of a real New York bagel and

804
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: has been unable to find one. I'm to harsh your grin. Well,

805
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: apparently that thing is a blasphemy over coming from Brooklyn.

806
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: I never have lived. Well, there are no bagels in Brooklyn.

807
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what anybody could possibly fell in love

808
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: with someone in Brooklyn. What can I say? Google best

809
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: bagels in Brooklyn. You'll find a list anywhere along I

810
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: know where they are there on Second Avenue in fifty

811
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: I know where the bagels are so up here. So

812
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: you mentioned you fell in love with someone in Brooklyn,

813
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: and you mentioned I just mentioned Google. I gotta ask

814
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: you a random question. Please your disclosures. You don't mince

815
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: any words whatsoever. Fifteen years ago we did this. It's like, Hey,

816
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: here's who my spouse is, Here's who she works. For

817
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: here's this, I don't get paid. Her money is hers

818
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: money is There's no conflict. That's like a really blunt,

819
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: straightforward that was very innovative at the time. It was

820
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: because we trusted readers and we wanted. You know, my

821
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: ex was a very prominent executive at Google and then

822
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: later became CTO of America. UM, I had to meaning

823
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: she was working for the Obama White House as technology

824
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: she's the chief Technology Officer in the United States. Um.

825
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: But before that, she was a pretty prominent executive Megan

826
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: Smith at Google. She she ran Google dot org. She

827
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: was she bought things, she bought the Google Earth for them.

828
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, she did a lot of stuff over there,

829
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: and um, and so I wanted I actually urged her

830
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: to go there when it was very small. Um, hey,

831
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: these guys are onto something. Yes, I was like, these

832
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: guys are special, Like you know, she was looking around

833
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: she was running another company and good advice. So yeah,

834
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: it was good advice. Thank You're welcome. Megan. She's a

835
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: very lovely house in Washington, d C. Do to that,

836
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: so she should have several wish I don't want to

837
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: go into it. So anyway, she's doing just fine. Um.

838
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: So so I wanted to disclose and you can't do

839
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: that in a newspaper, and I thought, why not be

840
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 1: cleared everybody? So we trust the reader too. We don't

841
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: have to say. One of the things General's trying to

842
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: do is like I'm completely even handed. It's like, no,

843
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: you're not. You have things that you don't want people

844
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 1: to grab onto them. I foresaw sort of this Twitter

845
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: day where everybody could do gotcha to you, So before

846
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: anybody could get you, just explain and then we trust

847
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: the readers to be smart. And so that's Walton I did.

848
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: We full disclosure on a lot of stuff right as

849
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: much as we could, and there as much that was

850
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: relevant I think was it was it and people love it.

851
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: They just they like it. Again, it's a respect for

852
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: readers that we think about that well, we don't think

853
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: they're stupid. Well, that's important to actually let people think, um,

854
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing. You have nothing to hide,

855
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: you know. It goes back to Hunter Thompson basically saying, hey,

856
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm not unbiased. If you are my biases, I'm Hunter S. Thompson.

857
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: You'll figure it out. Let's let's talk a little bit

858
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: about silicon Valley. You've lived in San Francisco for five years, right,

859
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: we could talk about we can talk about this how

860
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: much the city has changed. But let's let's go a

861
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: little south down to the valley. Um, how has Silicon

862
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: Valley changed over the past. It's just money, just massive

863
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 1: amounts of massive amounts of capital and success has sort

864
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: of and and and the influence and power. And I

865
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: think one of the things that's interesting, sort of like

866
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: I would be akin to watching Hollywood go from Orange

867
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: Groves to the power Louis B. Mayer and stuff like that.

868
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: And I think it was really you know, most of

869
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: the people I had covered and now the captains of

870
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: industry as the richest people in the world, by the way,

871
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: on every list, the people they weren't that they were

872
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: just startups. And so I think some of them have

873
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: stayed true to the people they are. Others have been

874
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: warped by money and not understanding their power and not

875
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: understand the consequences of what they've built. Others have been,

876
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, plunged into these ridiculous wealth bubbles where they

877
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: go from the airplane to the car to their home

878
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: and they don't understand what they've done, Like they don't

879
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: spend They surround themselves by people who's who's interest is

880
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: in pleasing them. Um, it's often when then I run

881
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: into him, like Mark Andrees and I have known each

882
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: other since he was very young and I was very young,

883
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: and you know, I think very few people he's like

884
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: the genius, you know, Mark with his giant brain. But

885
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: by the way, when I did my interview with him,

886
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: I got all these emails complaining that they could not

887
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: listen to it on two X because he speaks so quickly.

888
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: But you know, he's like very few people will say something.

889
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's stupid, and he's like what, And I'm like, oh,

890
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. He's not used to hearing that, but he is.

891
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: He's actually one of the people who will go back

892
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: and forth. But you know, even like you know, just

893
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: a lot of them, he's actually quite good. He he

894
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: always thought a lot about himself, like and I don't

895
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: mind that. Well, you have to in order to go out.

896
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: And he was confident from the get go. Shouldn't have

897
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: been um, well, he turned out tinsight bias he could

898
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: should have. He's achieved a modicum of success, Like whatever,

899
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: I don't care, right, exactly. But but but he wasn't

900
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: what my pushback to you is, he wasn't an arrogant

901
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: jerk about it and Silicon, well do tell but he was, Yes,

902
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: he was just no, no, no, he's the same person.

903
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: He's the same person, which I like. I appreciate someone

904
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: like that. I appreciate like or Mark benny Off. I

905
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: love talking to Mark ben right or um smart, insightful,

906
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: insightful and he thinks of himself he does, but I

907
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: enjoy talking to him. He's really like he is what

908
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: he is like those people give us the list of

909
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: arrogant jerks you enjoy speaking with. You know, very different

910
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: people can be the different ways. You know, Larry Page,

911
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: I don't know where he's gone to. He's hidden off,

912
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: kind of disappeared, he has, but he's always was like that.

913
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: He was always he was sort of a he can

914
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: now afford to do that? Was it him or Surgery

915
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: who was more of the serge was more of the

916
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: quiet one. Larry is Larry, but Paige Rank was really his. Yes,

917
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: Larry is really so brainy, so smart, so substantive, like

918
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: really special mind. Um. But you know they're all different

919
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: that there, they differ read but you know, and then

920
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: you get all sort of the young startup people that

921
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: are now older. You know, where do you put Peter

922
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: Teal in this brilliant, brilliant guy appalling of points of view, many, many,

923
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: many appalling points of view? Did you get around to

924
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: reading conspiracy? I read his first of all, not his book,

925
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: the book about the Gawker litigation, but you know that

926
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: to me just sent me over the edge, like doing

927
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: a secret lawsuit against someone if he really cared do

928
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: it out in the public like that to me was

929
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: the secret part to me was sneaky and awful. Ryan

930
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: Holiday's book about that is so fascinating only because you learn,

931
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: even with two people, it's impossible to keep a secret.

932
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: It's it's astonishing. The Gawker litigation is just an excuse

933
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: to describe the history of conspiracies. It's really anyway, it's interesting.

934
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: You know, he's brilliant, but I don't agree with him

935
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: almost everything. It's fun and funny, and you know I

936
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: always I sort of poked at him quite a bit,

937
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: and you know, he he's brilliant. He is brilliant, but really,

938
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 1: some who else stands out to you in the valley

939
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: visa The reason I think Peter Till's interesting is I'm

940
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: always like hot, Like he wrote one book and I'm

941
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: like it was very Yeah. I was like, oh, so

942
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: many interesting things here, you know what I mean, I

943
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 1: can't and then he he says a lot of things.

944
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you kidding me? You've got to be kidding.

945
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: The relationship with Trump, Yeah, kind of surprising. That would

946
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: you imagine from a guy who's railing about being oppressed

947
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: as a gay man in Silicon Valley, he doesn't care

948
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: talk about strange bedfellows. He doesn't care. It doesn't care.

949
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't care that those aren't his concerns, and I

950
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: think they should be a concern. So that's kind of

951
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: the old guard. What's who? Let's talk about the most

952
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: recent round of companies. Really interesting entrepreneur. You've written about

953
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: Travis Um. What are your thoughts about the whole frat

954
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: scene at Uber. Well, I think he's a Dara is

955
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: a very thoughtful and interesting person. I think he's got

956
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: the person who took over Yeah, Dark Coast for sha.

957
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: I think he's got a really tough economic question to

958
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: solve there, because you don't think you could just do

959
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of rides at a loss, but make

960
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: it up in volume. I know, I think they've got

961
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 1: an economic problem and it's hard, and they've got competition.

962
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: I believe in moats, you know, I think about moats.

963
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: Amazon has built so many moats now they still have

964
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: They're gonna have problems when when Amazon Web Services doesn't

965
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: do as well. So they've got to really think about

966
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: what their moats are. They've got a lot of them, um,

967
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: and I think any business has to have a lot

968
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 1: of moats, and I don't think there's as many moats

969
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: around Ubers and the market saying that right now, right right,

970
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: the market is si, well, they came out way too late,

971
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: and they came out very pricey to begin with. The

972
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: market is speaking if they would have, if they would

973
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: have come out cheaper and come out earlier, maybe we

974
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: be talking. I don't know. I think the economics are off.

975
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: They just you're getting a ten, you're getting a fifteen.

976
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: You're paying ten dollars for twenty dollar ride. That's what's happening,

977
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: which is fantastic for consumers. The same thing with you know,

978
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: I just wrote about we worked this week and your

979
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: colleague calls it a PONZI. Yes I did. I wrote

980
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: a long column about it and included Scott in that. Um,

981
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: you know, I think it just the economics don't make sense, Like, wait,

982
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: you're telling me if I get a floor in a building,

983
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: that floor shouldn't be worth more than the whole building itself. Well,

984
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: they're trying to pass themselves off as a tech company,

985
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: and I think that's what offense got nine that. Do

986
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: you remember Regious thirty years ago reduced plus beer equals multiple. Yeah,

987
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: it just seems sort of one of them has just

988
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: gone up again. Redis R I C I or something

989
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: like that. You've got competitors. They that business that that

990
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: that I p O perspectives was like one of the

991
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: analysts called a lesson in obfuscation. I read that. I

992
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: can't recall the last time in S one maybe it

993
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: was Facebook, the last time an S one came out

994
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: and it was so completely and totally line by line

995
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: taken apart, like we works were. Well, it deserved it.

996
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: I deserved it that. You know, look, it could be

997
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: a very it's a really interesting disruptive brand. There's some

998
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,959
Speaker 1: great ideas there, but not enough for what for billion?

999
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: There's seven billion, great This all comes back to what

1000
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: you said earlier about way too much capital and silicon

1001
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: value chasing way too few deals. Has that completely skewed valuations, which,

1002
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: by the way, Andreeson says we don't pay attention to valuation.

1003
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: Well that's what he says. Yes, you know, I think

1004
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: it's you know, once again in the public markets. Yes,

1005
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: I think it matters. I think you're right. Who cares

1006
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: the vcs throw you know, I always say there's not

1007
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: enough money to shove, not up for ad holes to

1008
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: shove all the money down. And there's that much money.

1009
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's that much money. And so you know,

1010
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: you've got SoftBank running around now. And look when Andreason

1011
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: came and everyone's like, what's he doing? Overpaying now? And

1012
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: Reason looks like parsimonious compared to SoftBank. That's a good word.

1013
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: So let me push back again on some of the

1014
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: new tech companies. So there's grub Street, which has been

1015
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: doing some really dishonest things. If we've just wrote about

1016
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: that about about the tipping, not just the tipping, but

1017
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: taking phone numbers for um and registering websites that look

1018
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: like the restaurants. If you think Craigslist hurt media companies.

1019
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: Grub Street is really damaging a lot. Actually, it's a

1020
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: it's a bigger question you're talking there's a bigger question

1021
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: you're talking about, which is the ethics behind some of

1022
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: this stuff. Like it goes to the bigger version of data.

1023
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: How your data is being used, how you're being manipulated online.

1024
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: Now you don't get if your data is being used

1025
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: and they're monetizing it, why don't you get a piece

1026
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: of it? How does that happen that your data which

1027
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: you own is being monetized by someone else, Like that's

1028
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: like you have to think about around face, But where's

1029
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: the benefit? Are they paying you for that? Are they

1030
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: disclosing enough? Are you allowed to opt out? And so

1031
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: those are those bigger questions of how all of us

1032
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 1: have become like you know, if you remember the soiling

1033
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: greens people like you know, that's data is people, and

1034
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 1: so the question is what do we do about that?

1035
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: And Congress in general, on the bigger question, has has

1036
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: done no regulation of the Internet ever, unlike Europe, which

1037
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: has been very forward on starting to they're a decade

1038
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: ahead of they are there, indeed, but it's still there.

1039
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: Haven't been really comprehensive regulation of the Internet the way

1040
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: there's comprehensive whether whilst she breaks it, there's comprehensive legislation,

1041
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: whether chemical companies violate things and break the lot. There

1042
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: are laws, whether they're you know, emission standards, which are

1043
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: now the Fifornian the drum mininistrator California looks like it's winning.

1044
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: Um oh god, they're there, Sam. You stop and think

1045
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: about this. The automobile industry has invested so much money

1046
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: in everything from hybrids to electric to Cleanerody's going back, right,

1047
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: It's like, wait, we've wasted billions of dollars if we

1048
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: get to play, not going back. They don't want to

1049
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 1: go back. I want to go back. And the future

1050
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: is these cars. They they have a marketing and branding

1051
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: issues they want to appeal to. Really, you're on the

1052
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: downside of history here like Stop like clean Cole Clean.

1053
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: So what's what's interesting is that like Tony. So the

1054
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: question is where are we gonna regulate like in California

1055
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: right now, there's a privacy bill coming online that's going

1056
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: to be the de facto for the country. It is,

1057
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: and there's twelve others across the country. So then tech

1058
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: companies are going to be like, which one do we like,

1059
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to follow all of them. I think

1060
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: everybody like longs for an idea of a privacy bill

1061
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: that has some teeth that protects consumers, even these companies,

1062
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: because it's like they don't. I don't. I think confusion

1063
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: really creates problems in markets, right and therefore there should

1064
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: be a really strong national privacy bill that one would thing,

1065
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: but they can't agree on lunch in Congress right now.

1066
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: You'd imagine there should be something around anti discrimination there.

1067
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: You imagine there should be something around Um, there's all

1068
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: kinds of bills. I wrote about this Internet Bill of

1069
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: Rights that they're thinking about, and there's a ten or

1070
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: twelve things, and it's not one law. It's two dozens

1071
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: of laws around the Internet to regulate. And there's only

1072
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: one law right now, and it benefits innet, which is

1073
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: section thirty, which people are now revisiting. Oh, that was

1074
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: your column revisiting an obscure. It's not viscure. It's a

1075
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: critical bill well, but originally it was not well known publicly,

1076
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: and now it's coming. It's been used by it's as

1077
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: a shield. And so what's interesting I have I have

1078
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: a podcast coming out today. I had three people debate

1079
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: it today because I was like, let's talk about this

1080
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: and educate people about it. But you know, that's that

1081
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: bill is helpful to the internet industry and the digital industry.

1082
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: So the question is you can have that and we

1083
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 1: could you know, getting rid of it's a huge mistake,

1084
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: but figuring out where the responsibility is uh is important

1085
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: and I think so therefore put stuff around it and

1086
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: have some some Everyone is like regulation is terrible. I'm like, no,

1087
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: regulation is worse in many ways because people don't know

1088
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: the rules of the road. And you know, especially with

1089
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: these new technologies are coming cars, some of the healthcare stuff,

1090
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: the censor stuff, the AI stuff, we need good law

1091
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: to to really protect consumers. And many people think, you know,

1092
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: even just the ability to sue is a good thing.

1093
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: Like you know, there are certain laws in place around

1094
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: pornography and everything else, but there this is an industry

1095
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: that needs to be regulated just the way Wall Street

1096
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: is just the way, and regulated they'll be They'll be overreached.

1097
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: There'll be overreached, no question. But the question is if

1098
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: there's none, maybe we need a little Like so you're

1099
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: implying about the right to sue. You know, every all

1100
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: the boilerplate that you shrink, wrap agreements that you sign,

1101
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: have arbitration agreements. In the musicians decency second to thirty

1102
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: does take care of pretty much. They it's been shipped

1103
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: away around uh, sex trafficking in some other areas, but

1104
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 1: it's not really been shipped away very much at all.

1105
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: And then there's a question of you know, things like

1106
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren was proposing, which is breaking up some of

1107
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: these companies, And that's Elizabeth Warren following again your partner

1108
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 1: who's been talking talked about that. So there's breakup, there's

1109
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: fees that there's there's fines, there's all kinds of different

1110
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: ways to figure out how to reign in the Internet industry.

1111
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: And it depends on their violations, it depends on their cooperation.

1112
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: Let's do a quick speed round about some of your

1113
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: favorite people, um and since I mentioned Blade Runner, tell

1114
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: me the first things that enter your minds when I

1115
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: mentioned these people's name. Elon musk Um, visionary, visionary, Um, unusual,

1116
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,479
Speaker 1: the whole crazy Joe Rogan thing was blown a little

1117
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: out of No, he shouldn't have done that. He's a

1118
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: seat you have a public company. A little more circumspect

1119
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: would have been better, uh, Jack Dorsey, Oh, also thoughtful,

1120
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: but opaque and disengaged in a way I find troubling.

1121
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: Disengaged meaning not responsive to the current impact of his work.

1122
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: What he's doing, what what are is doing right now?

1123
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: To the national discourse is damaging and he has to

1124
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: think more. He talks about healthy conversations, and I really

1125
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: wish he would stop talking and do something. Okay, speaking

1126
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: of damaging the national discourse, Mark Zuckerbrook ernest really lovely,

1127
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: as you know, the least arrogant considering who he is,

1128
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: really quite thoughtful, thoughtful person, absolutely incapable of dealing with

1129
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: the task he has ahead of him, incapable that that's

1130
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: pretty pretty impressive. Um, what about to use a lot

1131
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: of help? What about the Google guys disengaged? Really disengaged?

1132
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: Is that a function of the just start not running

1133
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: the company? So who is all right? And and whoever

1134
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: is there? What about the entire split between Google and

1135
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: Alphabet or Google projects. It's still the same kind. It's

1136
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: search and everything else is an adult there jumble of blocks.

1137
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: That's what they've always been like Google years ago. There's

1138
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: a fortune magazine covered chaos at Google. It's the same thing.

1139
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: It's a chaotically organized company, and there's there's a lot

1140
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: of obviously practices. It's a big, giant company, makes a

1141
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: ton of money. It's very successful in the way it does.

1142
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 1: But so from you know, the DNA of any company

1143
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: is the DNA of its beginnings, and that doesn't change. Chaotic,

1144
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: but that's doesn't it's not a messory bad thing. Even

1145
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: at Microsoft, has that DNA changed. Yes, I have a

1146
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: huge respect for such an Adela amazing. I think he's

1147
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: a thoughtful uh measured you know, not as not as

1148
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: exciting screaming and stuff like that, but just a really

1149
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: he's done a great job in defining talk about defining

1150
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: your products. He knows who he is, he knows what

1151
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 1: Microsoft is interesting read Hastings. Lovely smart. Oh, I just

1152
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: enjoy talking to him. Really, just a great thinker. He's

1153
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: just we don't always agree on things, but boy, what

1154
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: a what a smart man. I like he pulled himself

1155
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 1: off the board of Facebook. That was interesting. Oh really,

1156
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: I think it was tired of arguing with him. I'm

1157
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 1: guessing right, And huh, Benny Off you mentioned Earl hysterical, fun,

1158
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: great guy for a drink. You want to go up

1159
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: for a drink with that guy? Always interesting conversation can

1160
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: be blowhardy, but I like it. I like the whole jam.

1161
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: I like it started act. I like his whole commitment

1162
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: to the city. I think it's genuine. I like he's

1163
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: that he's loud about it. Everyone's like, oh, he's just

1164
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: loud about I'm like, yeah, but he does things like

1165
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: I don't care, let him brag, let him. I like him.

1166
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: He's just a really fascinating character. I really enjoy talking it.

1167
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: I always I never not interested in talking to him.

1168
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: Andrewson painting really, but I'm surprised in a good way,

1169
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: in a bad way to some of his new tweets.

1170
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: He's tweeting some crazy definitely, but he took a long

1171
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: tweet vacation, a couple of whatever. He's like Mark whatever,

1172
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: he's I argue with him a lot, but I enjoy it.

1173
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: I hate don't know. I hope he's not listening. Oh

1174
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: he's listening. Okay, Well, what are the vcs are worth

1175
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: bringing up? John Door, Bill Gurley who John's a very

1176
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: thoughtful person. He's not put a book recently, he's put

1177
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: on a book, we did a podcast. He's always been

1178
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: I think, Um, he's John. You know, he's a seems ethical.

1179
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: What what other VCS did I not get to that?

1180
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: That tramp? Do not know him. He's great, He's just

1181
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: a character and sok on Valley. Um, you know, I

1182
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 1: think you know, there's lots of VCS you don't know about,

1183
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: like my Michael Deering. There's all sorts of interesting Aileene

1184
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: Mary Meeker, there's all sorts of really well you all

1185
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: know who Mary Meeker. Yeah, she's great, she's great. I

1186
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: met her when she was an analyst at Morgan Stan.

1187
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: I used to stay up nights talking about the Internet

1188
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: with her in like the nineties, early nine She got it.

1189
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: She got it in fact too enthusiastic, but she was

1190
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: right directionally she was correct. I've argued that the difference

1191
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: between her and people got into trouble. Like Henry Blodge

1192
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: is she was a true believer who and being wrong

1193
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: is not prosecutable. She was early, She was early, but

1194
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: she was right. She was right in the long term.

1195
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: She was probably wrong several times. The term evaluation his

1196
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: reel cynical. I like Henry, I think he got a

1197
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: He's also a beautiful writer. Um, Who have I missed

1198
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs? Oh fascinating. I really enjoyed interviewing him. What

1199
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: an interesting and complex person, Um, I always say. And

1200
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: I've gotten to his wife quite a bit. His widow,

1201
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: Lauren Lorraine, who's really really interesting to talk to. She's

1202
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: very active in philanthropy, not just philanthropy, all kinds of

1203
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: all kinds of interesting and I find her to be

1204
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: very interesting in her investment stuff. She's very thoughtful. Another

1205
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: very thoughtful person. Um has a lot of points of

1206
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: view which I like. I like one of the point

1207
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: of you assume Job was you know he was just

1208
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: it would have complicated and interesting person. I know everyone

1209
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: sort of like tried to cartoonize people. He was mean

1210
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: to people. I'm like, yeah, but lots of people are me. No, No,

1211
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: I don't think he was. You know, I have his

1212
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 1: ratio of productivity was so high, and you know, all

1213
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: those speeches around death were so what an interesting person

1214
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: who challenged himself from a philosophical point of view, I

1215
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: don't think he had a lot of people always say

1216
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: he was heartless. This is what I say all the time.

1217
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: He had too much heart he had too much heart.

1218
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: It was too there were so many things going on

1219
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: with him. I always we did eight Walt and I

1220
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: did eight eight interviews or more with him. Very nobody

1221
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: had the body of interviews that we did with him,

1222
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: and that was every single one of them were fascinating conversations,

1223
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: and of course he's going to be seen as one

1224
00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: of the most important. And we did one with Gates

1225
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: and Jobs together. I recall that that was really very interesting.

1226
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: That's going to go down in history that you know,

1227
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: I'll be forgotten, But not that interview. Larry Ellison hysterical, hysterical,

1228
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: really just I just loved talking to him. I mean,

1229
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: you know, he's you know, you know, and he's sort

1230
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: of the old days of like vaguely sexist, sometimes very

1231
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: sexists all Coon Valley, like the old like sells Off

1232
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: where everybody like that kind of stuff. I gotta tell you,

1233
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: he's a really you know, he's raised two really interesting

1234
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: children too, Like what are the kids doing? The kids

1235
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: are moviemakers. They make Star Trek and his daughter makes

1236
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: some amazing movies. Is like a really interesting filmmaker. And

1237
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: his son makes more like Terminator and and Star Trek.

1238
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: The recent Star Treks, which are very good movies that

1239
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: star trek Ones particularly, And so I don't know. I

1240
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: just he's a he just he's one of the few

1241
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: titans left kind of thing. Uh. Scott McNeely was someone

1242
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: I haven't heard from. I just did a podcast with him.

1243
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: Not a podcast, I did a column in York Times

1244
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: went around privacy, privacy, get used to it, that kind

1245
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: of thing. Um, he's which is the inverse of what

1246
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: people used to say. No, he was the first one

1247
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: to really identity that you have no privacy, get used

1248
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,959
Speaker 1: to it. Um. That was a really prescient thing he said.

1249
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I agree with him on a lot

1250
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: of political stuff. He's quite he has a he has

1251
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: a problem with Hillary Clinton, is he needs to let

1252
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: go of still even to this day he's talking to him.

1253
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, she's a private citizen, is never

1254
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: going to be president. You really can move along, Like

1255
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: I feel like you've handled Hillary Clinton, so like, let's

1256
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: some people who don't like or really can whatever. It's

1257
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: just funny. I was sort of like, can we stop

1258
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: talking about Hillary Clinton and start discussing the current state

1259
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: of affairs? What? What about CEOs? I haven't mentioned what

1260
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: company interesting ones like Brian Chowsky from Airbnb. I think

1261
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: he's very thoughtful and interesting. I'll be in such an

1262
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: interesting company when that goes public. I think he thinks

1263
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: very carefully about stuff, and he understands what I like

1264
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: about him as he understands the impact. He may not

1265
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: always do the right thing, and they've had a lot

1266
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: of mess ups and everything else. They had some early

1267
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: mess ups that I think taught them a lot. But

1268
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: I think he's extraordinarily thoughtful about his impact and you

1269
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: very and I don't think it's just yammering. I think

1270
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: he actually knows that his company has negative and positive impacts.

1271
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: So he's able to discuss the negative impacts without being defensive.

1272
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: And it's a pleasure to talk to him. Tim Cook,

1273
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: I love the talk. I didn't get to think Tim

1274
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: Cooks are really he's an adult. I've done some very

1275
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: good interviews with him. People assumed that when Jobs left

1276
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: that would be it for Apple, But here we are,

1277
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: what is it six years later? You know they've still

1278
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: got the issue. If they've got to have what's the

1279
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: next hit? They're like the Rolling Stones, like when's your

1280
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: next hit? Like there at some point they can't keep

1281
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: making Like it's just like they have such a record,

1282
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: you're almost like a good job, you know. I feel

1283
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 1: like that I'm kind of old, but I'm keep making hits,

1284
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: so and so they can keep making it. It's a

1285
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: really they've done so much amazing stuff that this year

1286
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Yeah, there's stuff around that show

1287
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: looks pretty good. Um, we'll see the problem with that show.

1288
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: And you brought this up with competing with content between

1289
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: Netflix and Amazon and Hulu and everybody else. It's really

1290
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: hard to lu I thought they should have brought Netflix

1291
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: five years ago when I wrote that, and people gave

1292
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: me grief about it. I think it was fifty billion

1293
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: dollars and people give me grief. It was like two

1294
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 1: that was a missed opportunity. They could still do it

1295
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: so much. Well, it's a rounding era to them. But

1296
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: you know there, I liked him cook, I really enjoy

1297
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: I think he's been one of the adults in the

1298
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: room and has been very toughful. A lot of people

1299
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: think he's taking advantage of, like sort of being a

1300
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: school marm, but I don't care. I like it versus

1301
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: Facebook to some degree. You mean in terms of hey

1302
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: to say, you know, I asked him. I didn't think

1303
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: he was going to answer, but he did. I asked

1304
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: him in this interview I did in Chicago last year.

1305
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: Um it was a live interview to school, and I said,

1306
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: what would you do if you were Mark Zuckerberg? And

1307
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: he said, I wouldn't be in the situation. In the

1308
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: first I was like, that's a genus answer, right, that's

1309
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: he's not like, that's like he never does that. They

1310
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: have a bone to pick with Facebook, Well, yeah, they

1311
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: it's also calculated bone because their business is not is

1312
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: not advertising. It's an excellent business opportunity to smack them

1313
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: and and I think and they believe it. And by

1314
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: the way, Steve Jobs was talking about this with us

1315
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: ten years years about Facebook, about privacy about very strangely,

1316
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: and you can talk about that when it's not your business, right,

1317
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: So I guess you could go on about how porn

1318
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: talks like and it's it's insulting to women and that

1319
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: because it's not my business. So you know, it's it's

1320
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: actually good for me if they're competing with me. So

1321
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like Facebook and

1322
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: he's taking advantage of the situation. But I'm okay, So

1323
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: what meanwhile, did you happen to catch the sixty minutes

1324
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: about that Israeli company that basically has licensed the technology.

1325
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: I think it's called Pegasus that hack can hack any

1326
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: phone anywhere in the world. I assume that's happening already.

1327
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: But I mean there is literally an Israeli company who

1328
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: was given grief because they licensed it to Saudi Saudi

1329
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: Arabia and fearically they use this technology now. But that's

1330
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: going to catch up that this It's going to be

1331
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: a constant arms race for all this stuff. There's gonna

1332
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: be like, look, I assume everything is hacked. That's just

1333
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: not the study. And so so LA is right. There

1334
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: is no privacy. There is no there hasn't. But you

1335
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: can't control your privacy. That's different. You don't own you

1336
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 1: know it's out there, but you can there's ways to control.

1337
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: And they haven't done any job whatsoever and helping you do.

1338
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: So one thing you even talked about is Trump and

1339
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: is tweeting. All the tweeting like that's just such an

1340
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: important thing. It's governing by Twitter. So it's funny because

1341
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: every time a conversation comes up about g the president

1342
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: and and this is just the most recent one. The

1343
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: President is haranguing the Federal Reserve chair. Uh, that's never

1344
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: happened before. And what the answer to these tend to

1345
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: be is, well, it has happened before, just it's always

1346
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: been private. And to do it publicly, to do a

1347
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: vocation and weaponization that it is provided by these tools,

1348
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: these online tools, is really unprecedented. Everyone's like people have

1349
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: done from like no, not like this, and and you know,

1350
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: just the two examples. I wrote a calm about this

1351
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: the when they when they the census thing was happening, right,

1352
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: which we'vegotten about. Remember that, Well, it's the the outrages

1353
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: come so fast and furious, you can't keep up. So

1354
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: he by design they had made a decision to back

1355
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: away from adding that question, and suddenly he tweets that,

1356
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we're putting an end. And then the lawyer

1357
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: for the Justice Department is like, I don't know what

1358
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: he meant in the tweet. We need to call him,

1359
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: like what like governing by tweet? And then he did

1360
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 1: it this week with Greenland. Well, wait before we go

1361
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: to Greenland, stay with the census question. Governing by twitter.

1362
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: Here's the fascinating thing. The last landed gentry in the

1363
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: United States are federal judges. What they say goes in

1364
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: their court, and you can be in jail as a

1365
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: lawyer who's been who's been fined for um, disrespecting the court,

1366
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: and eventually the appeal will go your way, and after

1367
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: six months of jail you come out. That judge said

1368
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: to that lawyer, your answer is this honest and if

1369
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: you don't get me the answer I want, there's going

1370
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: to be hell to pay. I think he threatened them

1371
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: with contempt of court and sending them to jail until

1372
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: it's resolved, and he held them accountable. It was fascinating.

1373
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: He's like, you're responsible for this, it's your client to

1374
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: the lawyers because literally they're saying there like it's Twitter.

1375
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: What But literally he's governing by Twitter, Like what do

1376
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: you do? Like I can see the person is sitting there,

1377
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: like what do we do? Now? Who do we call?

1378
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: He just tweeted it, like what does that mean that

1379
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: the interpreting it. You're an officer of the court and

1380
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: you have an obligation. But I'm talking about on a

1381
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 1: personal level. I mean, like just like Maddest when he

1382
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 1: was tweeting about that transgender So he just ignored him

1383
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 1: right and pulled someone into the office said no, not

1384
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: doing But by the way, he twitter resident and you're

1385
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: ignoring the residence of the whole thing is saying yes,

1386
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: but it's also in you can't do that like that.

1387
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: That's called we have a system. So it's really fascinating, Well,

1388
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: we have a system, and if you want me to

1389
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: do something, give me an official executive order, not a tweet.

1390
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 1: We don't want people anticipating with the president. Nobody's anticipated

1391
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: that you could do that, because he did it again

1392
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: with Greenland. I'm not going to Greenland. The ambassador to

1393
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: Greenland was like, welcome, Mr President, and then he tweets

1394
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: that like just at the same time, and then they're

1395
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: like they're all scrambling, like somebody had an interesting theory

1396
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 1: that pre scheduled at the end of the month. Is

1397
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: Obama going to Greenlands? And he didn't want to be

1398
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: compared with the adoring think you know, I think. But

1399
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because it's a perfect medium for this guy.

1400
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:32,480
Speaker 1: He's like the troll in chief. He's twitchy, he's raging,

1401
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: he's it's everything about the way Twitter is designed, and

1402
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: the way they've architect it is perfect for Donald Trump,

1403
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: and he's that's why he's so good on it. Now,

1404
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: then you see someone like AOC who's also good on it,

1405
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: but he's good in a different way. Future president, he's

1406
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: exactly he broadcast or possibly he broadcasts, and she speaks

1407
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: the language. So I find her fascinating in that way.

1408
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I think Nancy Policy is right,

1409
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: you just gotta get the votes. I think she's got to.

1410
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 1: She's a natural. She's of that general minds. If she

1411
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: combines the ability to communicate beautifully on social media with

1412
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: an ability to get votes and really actually do the

1413
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: mechanations of democracy which you need the votes, like that's

1414
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: really it, that will be very powerful. I think Trump

1415
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: just he just creates havoc, and that's that's also a

1416
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: talent to create havoc. He uses, but it's he has unique.

1417
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: Just the way John F. Kennedy used the television, He's

1418
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: using Twitter and social media, no doubt about it. We

1419
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: have been speaking with Kara Swisher. She is the co

1420
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: founder of Recode and the author of numerous books on technology.

1421
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and check out

1422
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: our podcast extras, where we keep the tape rolling and

1423
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 1: continue discussing all things tech related. You can find that

1424
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: at iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast, Overcast, Stitcher, wherever your find

1425
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: our podcasts are sold. We love your comments, feedback and

1426
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:59,520
Speaker 1: suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg

1427
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: dot net. Check out my weekly column at Bloomberg dot com.

1428
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: Follow me on Twitter at rid Holts. Sign up from

1429
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: my daily reads at rid Halts dot com. I'm Barry

1430
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 1: rid Halts. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

1431
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. By the way, Kara, thank you

1432
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. You were tough to track down.

1433
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 1: I had to pull in some favors. Galloway who um

1434
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: has been on my podcast. I've done to fifty something now,

1435
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: more than any five years two really and that doesn't

1436
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: count Pivot. That's a lot, but minor roll three four hours,

1437
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: so it's a little so. By the way, just so

1438
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 1: you know, I've been a listener to Pivot from the beginning.

1439
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: When I'm I'm up early early East Coast time working

1440
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: on my my various and sundry things, my my frippery,

1441
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: UM and I like to have something playing in the

1442
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: background and you guys, you guys are well. We really

1443
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: didn't get into the podcast much, but I love the

1444
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: combination of you as who you are and Scott as

1445
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: an alpha male East Coast weirdest chemistry people. It's it's

1446
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: fantastic anywhere I go there, Like where Scott, I'm like, no, no,

1447
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: we're not married, Mary, we don't hang out, but we

1448
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: sound like a married couple. It's sort of like I

1449
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: was trying to think of, like is it Kathie Lee

1450
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: and Regis is remember moonlighting? You know what I mean.

1451
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: It's that kind of thing that's going on there. It's

1452
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: a really interesting, um it's a really interesting chemistry we have.

1453
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: And I think it's because I'm like, like, he's being

1454
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: alpha male on purpose, right, he's allowing the testosterone poison,

1455
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: but he's also like sort of sort of like he's

1456
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 1: a woke alpha yeah exactly, kind of like, oh God,

1457
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: I said something stupid and I'm like, you're an idiot.

1458
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: Like he says stuff to you that I just like,

1459
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: crack up, and he's trying to provoke you. I was like,

1460
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 1: your one statement away from the end of your career.

1461
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 1: All the time, like I'm trying to protect and you

1462
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 1: can see me trying to protect. It's a really good

1463
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting thing, and we're going to try

1464
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,719
Speaker 1: to do more of them. And it's just you can't.

1465
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: You cannot capture that with just about anything. I had

1466
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: that report with Walt in a different way too, So

1467
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: it's really hard to do that. And I was I'm thrilled.

1468
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 1: I enjoy doing it, which I can tell you know

1469
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: it comes across he enjoyed. We enjoy it like it's fun.

1470
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's most important, is to you know,

1471
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: love the life you live right kind of thing like

1472
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: we love it, And that's that's how you make great things,

1473
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: if you really enjoy yourself once an episode, I here

1474
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: hold me, Kara. You know it, you know it's coming.

1475
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: He has all kinds. I'm a gangster. Hestake me a texting.

1476
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 1: Barry's a gangster. I'm like, oh Jesus, can I tell you?

1477
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: Can I tell you the gangster? Can I tell you?

1478
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: The funniest thing he's ever said I ever heard him

1479
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: say so. He knows I'm a car guy. We were

1480
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: talking about cars and I misheard him. I thought he

1481
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: said g wagon. I didn't realize he had a g

1482
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: L wagon. That you wagon is I don't even know

1483
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: what you're talking, all right, So Mercedes start bring up football.

1484
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to Mersey's makes this military vehicle that looks

1485
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: like a giant jeep on steroids. It's like a hundred

1486
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,839
Speaker 1: and fifty thou dollars. Why do you need this? Nobody

1487
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: needs it. It's the worst dumbest thing in the world.

1488
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: And when I heard him say g wagon g L,

1489
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 1: I thought he said g wagon, what would that be?

1490
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: So g L is like a normal STV g L

1491
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: wagon is this? Well, like that's what I thought. I go,

1492
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: I go, Scott, I don't know about you and this

1493
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: g wagon And his answer was no, no, g L,

1494
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 1: not g wagon. He goes, I'm insecure, not pathetic. I

1495
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: still get emails from people about that. Silly. It's funny

1496
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,560
Speaker 1: he goes, and when he when we go places. And

1497
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 1: what's really striking about that podcast is I am stopped

1498
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: so much on the street, like tell Scott to screw it,

1499
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 1: like and really, yeah, I feel like we don't have

1500
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 1: a TV show because it's really funny. People like he

1501
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: was walking on the tarm and of course he's going

1502
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: to the Hampton's and a helicopter. I'm not doing that.

1503
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm in a car with my kids. And

1504
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: really he was shoppering and I'm literally driving a car

1505
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,640
Speaker 1: card to Province down with my pregnant girl, right and

1506
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: my two teenage sons. And it's like and he and

1507
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: the guy who does the waves the helicopter down with

1508
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: the two batons. He has the earphones on and he

1509
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 1: sees Scott and he goes, where's Gara? Which was really funny.

1510
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: Kara is driving like a car up to the cape,

1511
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: is what Kara is doing? Anyway. That's that's very He's

1512
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,600
Speaker 1: in Nantucket, of course, because he's the elite. Is Nantucket

1513
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: considered the Oh my god, been there? That I'm not.

1514
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm in the top ten percent. I'm not in the top.

1515
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: One color in your house is everything has to look

1516
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 1: the same, the wooden shingles, and you need to not

1517
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: go to Nantucket in a province town, you gotta pick.

1518
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 1: I'm a Fire Island guy. I'm very Fire Island faddle

1519
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: classic out there exactly all right, So I have to

1520
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,480
Speaker 1: let you go eventually. So let me jump to my

1521
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 1: favorite questions that I asked all of my guests. I

1522
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: know you don't own a car now, but what was

1523
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: the first car you ever owned? Hot a Civic, good, good,

1524
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 1: reliable car. Shift. I have a ship. I always have

1525
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: shift car, me too, cars, my jeep. Everything is a

1526
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: stick shift. And my wife is now a better driver

1527
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: with a stick than I am. It's really uh swagon

1528
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: for years, which one bug or something? Later and then

1529
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: I had a rabbit. When it was a rabbit, it's

1530
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: called something, it's called and then and then I had

1531
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 1: a minivan. I had a hont Of minivan when I

1532
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,799
Speaker 1: but not before I had kids. I had a Honey Minivan.

1533
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: Then I had a less Bru of course a super

1534
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: You saw there was a big article not too long

1535
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: ago about how Subru became the car of choice of lesbians,

1536
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: and I think it was vany fair. It's a very

1537
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: interesting less Brue. I had a less Brut and then

1538
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 1: I never heard of call. I had a jeep for

1539
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: New York Manager. They're the worst, terrible, although to be fair,

1540
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: they're unstoppable in the snow. I had I had one

1541
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: with the with the with the like a real jeep.

1542
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: And I had one that was had a hard top,

1543
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 1: and I hated both of them, and then I had

1544
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,879
Speaker 1: an Then I started getting into masses. I love masses

1545
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: and I love the Mazda. I wanted a Masta too,

1546
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: but mosta three, and the three is a happy car.

1547
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: It's a good car. It's had a great happy fix.

1548
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:11,879
Speaker 1: That was a great car. And then I just recently

1549
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 1: had a Ford Fiesta Turbo. That's why I'm so sorry

1550
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: there was no I'm telling you that's a great years ago.

1551
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: I hated, no the Turbo. It really is a good car.

1552
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 1: Don't insult the Ford Fiesta. I will tell you. I

1553
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: rented a Ford Edge the other day and I was

1554
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: surprised at how good car. Herbo was a different car.

1555
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 1: Everyone made fun of me, and then they got in

1556
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: it with its stick shift and we're like, oh, I see, Oh,

1557
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: this is wonderful little car. It was a great little car.

1558
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: But I do not have any cars. I had a

1559
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 1: Vespa for many years, but I never wrote it. I

1560
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: had what do you mean you never drove it? I

1561
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: just in Sanrancis was too cold. I had it in

1562
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: San Francisco. My my ex gave it to me as

1563
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: a Valentine's present. But I love scooters. I write scooters

1564
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 1: all the time, and I love I love scooters. What's

1565
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: the most important thing people don't know about? Kara Swish

1566
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: and I love scooters. No, people know that, No, that

1567
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: I love. I love action films with really bad action

1568
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 1: films like I just I just love those I love.

1569
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: I go to all of them and I go by myself.

1570
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 1: I don't want to like, how are you with people

1571
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: about how they are? Really? I just go I love them,

1572
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: I love them, I love them, I love I love

1573
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 1: Mission Possible. I love Bond. I'm so excited the new

1574
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 1: Bond film is coming out and Drew Elba going to

1575
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: be No, no no, it's gonna be Daniel Craig again. Well

1576
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 1: that's this one. I've seen every Bond movie ten times,

1577
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: even the bad ones, and uh, I love all those movies.

1578
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: I like. I'm excited for Kristen Stewart and Underwater. I

1579
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 1: like anything action and I also love Fast and Furious franchise.

1580
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: I love and I love the rock Jack Reacher. Have

1581
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: you seen the joke? Yes, so I'm not going to

1582
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 1: name something. How about Night and Day? Yes, of course,

1583
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: with me without me, I love it. Let's talk about mentors.

1584
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: Tell us about your mentor that's it. One name. Bang.

1585
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 1: He recruited you to the journal. How did he affect

1586
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 1: how you developed as a journalist. He was so generous

1587
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: with his power. He had so much power and was

1588
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: so generous and and and really it's such a good

1589
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: mentor to women in the in the way never air

1590
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 1: to mentor a woman, never early he has. There's a

1591
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: group of women he's mentored in a way that has

1592
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: been and specifically made sure he did that because he

1593
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: understood they were they there were there were issues. Always

1594
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: had my back. Um just and I can I can

1595
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: be uh difficult, not difficult? No, no no difficult. That's what

1596
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: Scott told me. He said, you were difficult. No, I'm

1597
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 1: not difficult. I'm not difficult. I think. I know what

1598
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: I want and I can say it very loudly and

1599
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I think and I do it

1600
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: around powerful people like Rupert. Mark said time to me,

1601
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: I was like no, and everyone was like WHOA, what

1602
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: do you do? At one point it was let me

1603
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: tell you this very very so we would meet with him.

1604
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 1: Mark loved Walt Moss Burt love, He loved reading him.

1605
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 1: He was thrilled when he bought the journal. Always had

1606
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 1: Walt to lunch and everything, and I was always with him,

1607
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: right like I was there. I'm certain Rupermar didn't know

1608
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: my name. He thought you were hit Walt's assistant. He knew,

1609
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: he was aware that I was his partner, you know

1610
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: what I mean, But he didn't know. I was like

1611
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: he didn't and so he never he'd be like wall, Wall, Wall,

1612
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: how are you? How are you're doing? You know? Mumbles?

1613
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: And I was always with him, and so he later

1614
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 1: knows who I am. And he used to call me

1615
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:13,560
Speaker 1: a lot during the Internet thing like what do you

1616
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 1: think of this company? What do you think that? Which

1617
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: was interesting. I'd get a call like four in the

1618
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: morning for moving Rupert's call on the phone and I'm like,

1619
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: all right, sure or whatever. But um, but he we

1620
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: were in the office one day and he's like wha

1621
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: and he goes, well hello, and I go listen. I

1622
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 1: don't think you know my name, but it's Kara Swisher.

1623
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: Next time I come, I'd like you to say hi, Kara,

1624
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: because I want you to remember my name if you

1625
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: don't mind. But I don't think you know my name

1626
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: right now. And I'm sorry to be rude, but I'm

1627
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: just wanting like why pretend? What was the reaction He's like,

1628
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: I know your name. I'm like, well, I said, all right,

1629
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:47,599
Speaker 1: if you know what you do, but I don't think

1630
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 1: you do. I know it, and I go, all right,

1631
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: I don't think you do. And I was like, what

1632
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: was like? Stop at Carol and the next time you

1633
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: showed up, he said, you always knew my name after

1634
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 1: That's very, very funny. Let's talk about books. We've touched

1635
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: on a few books and will include your books. What

1636
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: are some of your favorite books, tech non tech? What

1637
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: do you like? I'm reading I've been reading ron Cherno

1638
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 1: Hamilton's book for six years now, can't finish. He ends badly,

1639
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 1: um no no, and I'm gonna play on Broadway. It

1640
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 1: worked out well so early. But I think the book

1641
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: is great, and I'm really I love historical books. I'm

1642
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 1: right now reading um List. I just finished I'll Be

1643
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: Gone in the Dark. Michelle McNamara's book about the Golden

1644
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: State Killer. Just a really interest. I love dogged people,

1645
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 1: and she was how that eventually got solved. But yeah,

1646
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: well DNA That's why I was interested. And I'm sort

1647
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 1: of super interested in DNA right now. So I just

1648
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,160
Speaker 1: read that book, but it turned out to be a

1649
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 1: fascinating book. Um. I am reading uh, Taffy Acnear's Fleishman's

1650
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: in Trouble. I had her on the podcast and I

1651
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 1: didn't fan me great novel. She's a great feature writer

1652
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: and she's trying her hand at novels. Um. I read

1653
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the books I have to do podcasts on.

1654
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm reading Andrew Marin's's book about Disinformation because he's going

1655
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: to be on the podcast my Isaac's book. I'm giving

1656
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: him his book party for the Uber book. Although I

1657
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: don't want to know more about Uber, I know a

1658
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: lot about it. You know how that ends. But it's

1659
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 1: a good book. It's a good book. Um. Yeah, and

1660
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: so that's interesting. I read a lot of nonfiction more

1661
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: than fiction I wish I read. I'm reading this book

1662
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: that's amazing and I'm going to blank on her name. Julia,

1663
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: Julia Gabby Rivera's new book. It's I can't remember the

1664
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: name of it anyway, you hear, very new book and

1665
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's really wonderful. Juliana takes on something or

1666
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: that she's she's really great. She's a beautiful writer. And

1667
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:34,839
Speaker 1: I'm trying to read more fiction because I think everybody

1668
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: wants to read more fiction. It's very stupid fiction. I

1669
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 1: just really, you know, really, I like fiction. I mean

1670
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 1: for work, don't you have to do a ton? I

1671
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 1: do a ton of reading. I read the Internet all

1672
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: day long, and I read a lot of stories. Um,

1673
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 1: but I tend to I like I like feature writers.

1674
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: Some of my favorite feature writers Jessica Pressler, Olivia Nuzzy.

1675
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 1: They're all women. It's interesting, Taffy Acner, Um. I like

1676
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 1: them all. I find them really wonderful. I love their writing.

1677
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 1: I think they're great. Tell Us about a time you've

1678
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: failed and what you learned from the experience failed nobody

1679
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: bats at thousand. I don't look at it as failure.

1680
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: I hate to sound like a Silicon Valley person, but

1681
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: it sound like Ray Dally keep going. I don't look

1682
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: at them as failures. I don't think I'm trying to, well,

1683
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 1: what did you learn from the experience of something that

1684
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: we can just do something else. I have a very

1685
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 1: good ability just to like okay, next, next, like thank

1686
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: you next, um uh, it's it's I just don't think

1687
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: of it that way. I don't think. I don't think

1688
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 1: I The only failures I can think of is with

1689
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 1: my children, like I should have given also right, I

1690
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 1: should have done more of this sometimes like I should

1691
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: have made decisions faster. It's all related to my children. Um.

1692
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 1: And even then, I think I'm a very good parent.

1693
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 1: I think I'm a really good parent. So no failures ever,

1694
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:51,680
Speaker 1: I know that's not but I don't like, Well, my

1695
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 1: dad died when I was five. That's not a failure,

1696
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: but it's certainly it for me. And I think I'm

1697
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 1: very resilient because of it, even though I would rather

1698
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 1: be less resilient in him alive. So you know, sometimes

1699
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 1: I lose my temper with my mom and I wish

1700
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: I had and it's a lot of that kind of stuff. Um.

1701
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:09,760
Speaker 1: But big career failer is, you know, I think I'm

1702
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: really good at career. I'd have to say I've timed

1703
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 1: it well. I think I think I've done a good

1704
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 1: job on my career for sure. And that's in a

1705
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 1: very And also, you know, when I had a stroke,

1706
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 1: I thought, wait, what I had a stroke with five

1707
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:22,799
Speaker 1: six years ago? Hold on a sex. So the answer

1708
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: to the question, what's the most important thing we don't

1709
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 1: know about you? Oh, the stroke. People do know about it.

1710
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I didn't listen. I do a

1711
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 1: ton of research into every guest. I didn'tng on my

1712
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:34,560
Speaker 1: way to do a make money for Rupert Murdoch. I

1713
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: did an All Things Digital D China and Asia D

1714
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: so from the flight on the flight. Yeah, and it

1715
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 1: turned out I had a hole in my heart, which

1716
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: many people have dated me have said, no, I'm kidding,

1717
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. That is a mark. Yeah, yeah, I

1718
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 1: to hold my heart. It's called the PFO. And I

1719
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 1: had sticky blood, as I found out through twenty three

1720
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: and me and I was Mediterranean, but it's a kind

1721
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: of it's a condition for the But so, so, what

1722
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 1: were the what was the impact of the stroke? It

1723
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:06,719
Speaker 1: reinforced my feeling that life is short and you better

1724
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: get going. True, But what was the biological What were

1725
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 1: the medical sets? I like the philosophical Yeah, I mean,

1726
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm with Steve jobs on that I had a hole

1727
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 1: in my heart and there's nothing I can do about

1728
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 1: it's much So wait, your stroke was cerebral stroke or

1729
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 1: cardiac cardiac I probably be dead. So so you have

1730
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: a stroke with no limitations and no, it just was

1731
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: amazing no cognitive function, physical very short amount of time

1732
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: that day, and then it was done. I was like

1733
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 1: talking like this, and was the hole in your heart

1734
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 1: discovered post stroke investigation. So you got a little lucky

1735
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 1: with a minor stroke that discovered this leakage in one

1736
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 1: of your valves or what was it was? It's a

1737
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 1: hole in your heart's got a PFO. And when you're born,

1738
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: there's a flap where the emotic fluid goes back and

1739
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: forth and supposed to close, it closes up. It flaps

1740
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: over and then seals. And people doesn't seal. Human doesn't leak.

1741
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 1: It just is there, just a lap. It's flaps and

1742
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,719
Speaker 1: doesn't on a clock got through. If there's no clock

1743
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: getting through, it doesn't matter. So I'm not a doctor,

1744
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 1: but I wrote a big column on that actually in

1745
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: the Times Perry died. Oh yes, I wrote saying I

1746
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 1: had a stroke and my brothers saved my life. My

1747
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:16,720
Speaker 1: brother is a doctor. And when I was in Hong

1748
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 1: Kong and I was well, I was, I was there

1749
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 1: and I suddenly couldn't talk. I had a dysphasia. And

1750
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: I was like and I was in a hotel room

1751
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I can't call anybody. And

1752
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 1: I felt, okay, a little headache, could you. I had

1753
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 1: a little bit of tingle in my hand, but yeah,

1754
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: I was writing a story about Yahoo, and I was like,

1755
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: you know these idiots that, yeah, who once again are

1756
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 1: screwing up or something, And it was my finger tingled.

1757
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 1: I tried to eat something. It fell out of my

1758
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 1: mouth and then I was like wow. And I was like, huh.

1759
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 1: And I thought I had a migraine side migraines for years,

1760
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: which is a sign of a stroke among women. Realized

1761
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: that not everybody was migraines gets a stroke, but it's

1762
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: one of the signals. And and I've been traveling and

1763
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 1: I thought a lot and I was like, oh, I

1764
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,160
Speaker 1: just I'm just so tired, that's what it is. And

1765
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: so I wrote my brother. I texted him and it

1766
01:25:58,200 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 1: was a different time, and I think it was in

1767
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: the middle the night in San Francisco and he's an

1768
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,440
Speaker 1: anesthesiologist and he said, um, like my father was an anesthesiologist,

1769
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: and he he texted me. I went up to breakfast

1770
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:10,559
Speaker 1: and by the time I got to breakfast, you know,

1771
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: I'd woken up at four in the morning, Hong Kong time,

1772
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 1: and then I went up or whatever, and then went

1773
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:15,600
Speaker 1: up to breakfast. By the time it was gone, it

1774
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 1: was sort of talking like this, like I had like

1775
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 1: teeth surgery and I and I got up to the

1776
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 1: thing and and my brother called. He says, get yourself

1777
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 1: to a hospital right now. You're having a stroke. And

1778
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: I said, are you crazy, Like you're such a bad doctor,

1779
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 1: how ridiculous that I'm you know, whatever, years old. I

1780
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:33,719
Speaker 1: was not old. And so I think my late parties

1781
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 1: and or maybe fifty in and it was for late parties.

1782
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: And so he said, you were having a stroke. Get

1783
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: get to a hospital now now. And I was like okay,

1784
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 1: And so I did, and he was right, and I

1785
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 1: was having a stroke. And it wasn't a minor stroke.

1786
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: It was a stroke. And so you know all strokes,

1787
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 1: I mean there's things and t M I whatever they're called,

1788
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: um and uh. And they medicated me immediately and I

1789
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: didn't have any repercussions. He flew to Hong Kong immediately.

1790
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: But he saved my life. He did. That's amazing, you know.

1791
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Now he's never let me live it in to day.

1792
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: I don't that's the trade off for saving your life.

1793
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold this over you for a great doctor. Um,

1794
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: tell us what you do for fun? Oh, I don't

1795
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 1: have fun? What's that? No? I I have a lot

1796
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: of friends. I have a ton of friends. Um. I

1797
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: love spending time with my kids. My kids are amazing.

1798
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: My two sons are astonishing. And I'm about to have

1799
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: a baby with my girlfriend who is having a little girl. Uh.

1800
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: So I was family. I spent a lot of time

1801
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 1: with family. I think that's fun for me doing family stuff. Um.

1802
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of weird hobbies. I used

1803
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 1: to roller blade. I don't do that anymore. Um. You

1804
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: know I did sell cycle that I'm not gonna do.

1805
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try it something else. You're out pound coast

1806
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 1: of it. I was gonna say, Peloton is really the

1807
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 1: best need my thousands of dollars. It's it's not a

1808
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: little money. It's not like I get a one Starbucks

1809
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 1: a week gets a lot of money their thirty dollars session.

1810
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:52,759
Speaker 1: I don't have to give them the money, you know whatever.

1811
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 1: People can make their own decisions. I don't care. I

1812
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: don't have to. But they can also leave me the

1813
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 1: hell on if I want to do something else. So um,

1814
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 1: so I know it's virtue signing. I don't care. I

1815
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:03,680
Speaker 1: don't want to spend the money there. I hate the

1816
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: phrase virtue signaling. Christ really I can add hominum attack.

1817
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:09,719
Speaker 1: It's not about the argument who I am. And people

1818
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: have pushed back about that, and you go back to

1819
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 1: the person who created the phrase and he describes it

1820
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: as a personal attack against people whose ideas when I

1821
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 1: just I just want to do it, like leave me,

1822
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 1: but you know, mind your own business and I won't

1823
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 1: be money who I spend my money, my money. I work.

1824
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: I work so hard and I could okay, no, I

1825
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: mean or people who are politically I just want to

1826
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: spend the money. When I spend my most things you

1827
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 1: can't figure ever, And then they're like, well this is

1828
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 1: this and like you can't figure everything, but that's a

1829
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: clear one. That's a clear one, Like I get that

1830
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 1: has signaled. You know, if I eat like a Hersheibar

1831
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 1: this money, I can't figure all that, of course, but

1832
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,680
Speaker 1: in this case, this guy made a prominent gesture, and

1833
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to make a prominent gesture back. So that's

1834
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 1: you know, and that's why there's no lot of logic

1835
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,799
Speaker 1: to it's care Swisher logic. And by the way, carrocial

1836
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 1: logic applies to cars. Can I tell you there is

1837
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: logic to it when someone is going to be a

1838
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:04,640
Speaker 1: very visible patron of someone whose beliefs not just disagree

1839
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 1: with yours, but are actively oppressing your UM identification care.

1840
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 1: I just don't like it. I don't like I don't

1841
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: want to give money. That's all. That's it's It's not

1842
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: even that complicated. By the way, I feel terrible for

1843
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 1: mentally well, and it's Soul Cycle. I'd love to have

1844
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 1: on the podcast to talk about it. I think, I

1845
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 1: think the people of Soul Cycle, I'm so sorry that

1846
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:23,600
Speaker 1: they have to go through this. But you know what,

1847
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 1: I'll spinning out to a separate entity. I was like,

1848
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:27,839
Speaker 1: I want to call the rain Jobs and say, Lorraine,

1849
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 1: who does love Soul Cycle? But then you're behavi ares.

1850
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 1: I can do something about it, you know, but then

1851
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,920
Speaker 1: you reward. You're going to reward for fun. I hang

1852
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: out with friends. That's it. UM tell us what you're

1853
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 1: most optimistic and pessimistic about your chosen field of technology

1854
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,919
Speaker 1: and journalism. I am optimistic because there's so much exciting

1855
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,640
Speaker 1: stuff going on and so much innovation happening in journalism.

1856
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 1: And I think that even though people sort of declared

1857
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:56,640
Speaker 1: the end, when people were declaring the end of the

1858
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 1: world and stuff, I remember Barry deal or saying, you know,

1859
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 1: it's just it's never that, it's never. You can't whine

1860
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 1: and give up on things like it's been a losing

1861
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:08,720
Speaker 1: bed for five yeah, you know. And journalists tend to

1862
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: like not check like sometimes, like I was talking to someone,

1863
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, this is what's happening, and this is

1864
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: what's happening. I'm like, did you check if this is

1865
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: what's happening? Because you're just making that up. And so

1866
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,799
Speaker 1: I think you have to really feel, you know, anyone

1867
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 1: who has children has to believe in the future, anyone,

1868
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I have a lot of children, so

1869
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I believe in the future. I don't want to have

1870
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 1: children if I didn't. So what are you pessimistic about? Um?

1871
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: The autocracy? On one hand, I feel like autocrats always

1872
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,719
Speaker 1: end up dead in the dantage drainage ditch. I studied

1873
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 1: the Holocaust quite heavily and propaganda and stuff in the Haga,

1874
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: so it can get really bad. And when's the point

1875
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:44,560
Speaker 1: where it stays bad and it hasn't so far in

1876
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: our history. There's always someone who looks at Joe slamcars

1877
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 1: dand says, have you no shame? And it ends like

1878
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 1: it doesn't end totally, but it stops. The fever stops.

1879
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 1: You have someone at the Salem which right, the Salem

1880
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 1: witch trials, they were terrible. They ended the You know

1881
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 1: that I was around when I was a formative years,

1882
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 1: AIDS was terrible. During the Reagan administration. The stuff the

1883
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: Reagan administration was doing was appalling. James Watt said trees

1884
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 1: caused cancer. What everybody's seeing trees caused pollution? Remember him

1885
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: carbon die right? Whatever? James Watt where. I'm sure he's

1886
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 1: not living anymore, but he It was just there's there's

1887
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:23,840
Speaker 1: there's always these people that are retrogade, and I use

1888
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,560
Speaker 1: I'll end on this one of my favorite. Um, I

1889
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 1: see the thing. You know what I do for fun?

1890
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 1: I go to the theater. I love I'm seeing Mulan

1891
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 1: Roustena and stuff like that. Have I gotta say, have

1892
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 1: you seen to Of course I did. I've seen every

1893
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: one of them. Talk about powerful. I love theater. Make

1894
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 1: It's transformative for me as a person. I've always since

1895
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 1: I was a kid. My mom brought us. It's a

1896
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: real gift. My mom gave us to love of theater.

1897
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 1: And so I was Angels in America is one of

1898
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 1: my favorite ones, and I've seen it at least a

1899
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: dozen times. Tony Kushner's two parts and the end of

1900
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 1: the play, Um, it's a wonderful play. It's such a

1901
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 1: beautifully written play in such a time. It's harder than

1902
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: this time to remember for it. But it was terrible

1903
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:04,120
Speaker 1: during the AIDS. Christ is terrible, terrible, terrible people dying,

1904
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 1: these wonderful people dying like way before their time. And um,

1905
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: and the last line of the of the thing, they're

1906
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 1: standing at the fountain in Central Park, the Bethesda Fountain,

1907
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and uh, she said, he's the line he gives is

1908
01:32:20,160 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: the world always spins forward, and this is our time.

1909
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: We will not be silent anymore. And I remember being

1910
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 1: a gay person then just coming out, and you people

1911
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 1: don't remember when it was hard to be gay, and

1912
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: it still is in many parts of the world, but

1913
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 1: it's easy. I have kids better in the United States,

1914
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 1: so it's like you can't believe it, you can't believe it.

1915
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 1: And so I remember that really impacting me. The world

1916
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,600
Speaker 1: always spins forward. And that's why I thinking everyone's like

1917
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 1: Trump's gonna reverything. I'm like, is he he can't, Well,

1918
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 1: he'll do damage for four years and hopefully then he can't,

1919
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 1: and like, and we'll fix it. We can fix it

1920
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:52,639
Speaker 1: and we can pick it up. And I think that's

1921
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:54,439
Speaker 1: where I get up. The same thing with journalism, the

1922
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 1: same thing with anything, is that people they always end up.

1923
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 1: These people that want to push us back to old times,

1924
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: which brings people down. There are people that stand up

1925
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,559
Speaker 1: and say enough is enough, no more. When is that

1926
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: going to happen? It will all right. I hope you're right.

1927
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,040
Speaker 1: Last two questions and a millennial or college grad comes

1928
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,440
Speaker 1: to you and says, I'm interested in the career in journalism.

1929
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,519
Speaker 1: What sort of advice would you give us? Start writing?

1930
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 1: Just start looking around and start writing, start reporting, Start writing.

1931
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:24,880
Speaker 1: So much amazing journalist is being done right now and

1932
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 1: again because these times are harder, same thing happened during

1933
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 1: the last time we had something like this. So just

1934
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 1: get out your pen, whatever, whatever, get out whatever you

1935
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,799
Speaker 1: can and start telling stories. And I think telling stories

1936
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 1: is the greatest talent that humans have, is to tell stories.

1937
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 1: Quite interesting. And our final questions, what do you questions, Barry,

1938
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 1: I come prepared. What what do you know about the

1939
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 1: world anymore special about That's true. That's a fair po

1940
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,559
Speaker 1: serial killer, right, you know, that's what I used to

1941
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 1: do before with this. My son's name is Louie. There's

1942
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: nobody named old Jewish Louis. Yeah, well, okay, there you go.

1943
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 1: So you named your kid after Louis's name, that is

1944
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 1: a digression. I did not. His name is Lewis. I

1945
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:14,719
Speaker 1: did not name it after one of my favorite seafood

1946
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:18,120
Speaker 1: places is Louise in Port Washington. I grew up in

1947
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:22,559
Speaker 1: um Oh, so I'm in Locust Valley and I went

1948
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: to Portlage. Oh. Portlage is literally vilege thirty seconds from

1949
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 1: my I live in and can I tell you when

1950
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 1: whenever people visit me, they're like, I didn't know Long

1951
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: Island was like this. I'm like, well, you made a

1952
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 1: you made a left and you went to Connecticut. This

1953
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:42,599
Speaker 1: is this is the US. So my sister's kids want

1954
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: to say that I don't know. You grew up in

1955
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 1: very interesting. What was I saying? Our final question, what

1956
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 1: do you know about the world of technology today that

1957
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 1: you wish you knew. However, many years, thirty years ago,

1958
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:57,479
Speaker 1: when you first started, I know about it today. I

1959
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 1: wish I knew. Gosh, I forget more about technology than

1960
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 1: most people know. So um in an hour. Mm hmmm,

1961
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 1: I don't. I think I didn't quite on the damage.

1962
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:12,759
Speaker 1: I think I wish I had understood the damage earlier

1963
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 1: so I could start writing about it and stopping it. Privacy,

1964
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:18,679
Speaker 1: social networks, damage, all of it, the idea that these

1965
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: the impact on humanity, and how you know. I studied

1966
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 1: propaganda at Georgetown. That was my area of expertise in

1967
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 1: the Foreign service schools the US. As a propaganda I

1968
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:31,719
Speaker 1: should have understood having studied the Nazis, and especially the Nazis,

1969
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: how they used propaganda to um to to to in

1970
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 1: the roll up to killing so many people. The way

1971
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:41,599
Speaker 1: they used it, it was not a one day thing.

1972
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 1: You can't just sloater millions. You gotta prep you gotta

1973
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 1: prep it, and you gotta get the population. Comparing it

1974
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: to the Holocaust, but there's damage being done that is

1975
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 1: very It's a similar thing is how we make people

1976
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 1: the other and I think the internet, and I think

1977
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 1: the Internet is very effective at thought. It is and

1978
01:35:57,160 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be Star Trek. I thought

1979
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:00,960
Speaker 1: it was gonna be We're all gonna have communicators and

1980
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 1: love each other, and we're all going to be on

1981
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 1: a ship. But it's both. You have the good and

1982
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 1: the bad. That that's right. So the question is are

1983
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 1: you a Star Trek person or a Star Wars person?

1984
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 1: Star Wars it's very dark. It's dark, and Star Trek

1985
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 1: is very hopeful. I was a Star Trek person far

1986
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: far too long. That's very interesting, fascinating stuff. Thank you

1987
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:22,680
Speaker 1: so much with your time. We have been speaking with

1988
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 1: Kara Swisher. She is the founder of Recode. I mentioned

1989
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:28,680
Speaker 1: you want a Lobe award right, and she writes a

1990
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: weekly opinion column now for the New York Times. If

1991
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation, well look up an Inch, Down

1992
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 1: an Inch on all of our previous two and fifty

1993
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:43,800
Speaker 1: plus conversations and I'm sure you'll find something that you'll enjoy. Uh.

1994
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 1: We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us

1995
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:50,400
Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net, Go to

1996
01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:53,679
Speaker 1: Apple iTunes and give us a lovely review. Be sure

1997
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 1: to check out my weekly column. You could see that

1998
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. I would be remiss if I

1999
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:01,800
Speaker 1: did not thank the crack staff that helps us put

2000
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 1: together the easiest podcast to record UH in podcast Land.

2001
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 1: Charlie Volmer is my audio engineer this week. Attica val

2002
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,920
Speaker 1: Bron is our project manager. Michael Boyle is my producer.

2003
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 1: Michael bat Nick is my head of research. I'm Barry Retults.

2004
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio