1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We did our Unearthed installment for 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: the autumn of twenty twenty five all week long this week. 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: We sure did. 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: We did. What should we talk about first, Holly, So, at. 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: The end of the first episode, you talked about a 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: study about the way that bias factors into reporting on 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: historical and specifically archaeological finds. 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: My question throughout all of that, because I have not 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: read this paper. Yeah, was there any weight or factoring 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: given to language? So these what they were looking at 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: was that were published in these the specific set of 15 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: peer reviewed journals, which I could be mistaken. I do 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: think those are all in English. I do not know 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: if any of them published articles that are not in English. 18 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: And I don't recall if I don't recall if like 19 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: there was a language specification in the paper. But that's 20 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: kind of my question what makes it into those journals? Right? 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: So that's so, so it starts out with a bias already. Yeah, Yeah, 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: and that is something that the paper did not really 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: look at that much. And I'm not to be clear, 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm not dogging on the paper writers. I'm just saying 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: the bias layers go even deeper, right right. I was 26 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: curious about where they started from. 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: So one of the things that had a lot of 29 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: thoughts when I was reading this, and one of the 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: things that I think is absolutely true, uh, is that 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: it the the uh layers of what's at fact at 32 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: what factors are going on here do definitely involve like 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: they start prior to even submitting the paper to a journal, 34 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: Like it involves like who is doing research, where are 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: they doing it? Can they get funding for that research? 36 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Does that funding require them to publish? Are their factors 37 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: in how that publication has to happen, or where are 38 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: the places that people would like to do work safe 39 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: for researchers and specifically a lot of the time safe 40 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: for researchers from somewhere else. Like there's so many factors 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: that go into like before before the paper even gets published. Yeah, 42 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: and I think some of that uh. As I was 43 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: looking at this paper, I was kind of sort of 44 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: surprised because when I am working on these, I feel 45 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: like there is a huge disparity involving the entire continent 46 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: of Africa. There's a lot of research that is involving 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: northern Africa and especially Egypt, but I don't see nearly 48 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: as much stuff about the rest of the continent. Right. 49 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: But then, in terms of what this paper looked at, 50 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: which was comparing the publications in the journals to whether 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: it gets mainstream news coverage, like that wasn't as pronounced 52 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: because they were starting like they were comparing peer reviewed 53 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: publications to news articles and not like comparing the world 54 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: of archaeology to what gets published in one of these journals. 55 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yes, so, yeah, there's many layers 56 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: involved with this. I as far as I know, those 57 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: journals are published in English, which means that you know 58 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: that somebody doing the research would need to be writing 59 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: in English, able to translate, or have resources to have 60 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: a paper translated by someone with archaeological knowledge. 61 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 62 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: So one of the things that happens somewhat regularly is 63 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: that I will have bookmarked a news article that sounds 64 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: really interesting that is from China or Japan or. 65 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: India or Vietnam. 66 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: And what I have is like a really brief article 67 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: in the English language version of a mainstream newspaper published 68 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: in one of those places, but I'm not able to 69 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: figure out, like, was there a journal article about this? 70 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: Where can I find that journal article? Can I find 71 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: more information beyond this one like three to four paragraph 72 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: news store? And sometimes I just can't, like I can't 73 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: trace back the details that are in the news story 74 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: to find more information from like a university that might 75 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: be writing about the research as press releases or a 76 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: paper or something like that. So there are multiple intersecting 77 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: layers that go into all of this. We have talked about, 78 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: or I have talked about before about how I started 79 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: really trying to focus on research that is collaborative and 80 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: community led when it comes to indigenous peoples as much 81 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: as possible, and that winds up excluding some things from 82 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: the show a lot of the time, because as a field, 83 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: archaeology has sort of approached a lot of indigenous peoples 84 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: around the world as like objects to be studied rather 85 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: than human beings who are here and present with us 86 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: on Earth. And so a lot of times when I 87 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: see an article that seems really interesting that it's about 88 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: something involving an indigenous community, my first question is, like, 89 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: did you ask are the people living here today, do 90 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: they want this work to be done and are they 91 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: involved in it? And like that those are all questions 92 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: that were just the were not part of this study. 93 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: The study was just really about, like what are trends 94 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: and potential biases involved in like the gap between peer 95 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: review journals and news articles. Another thing that was quoted 96 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: a quote that I had pulled out from the article 97 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: that I did not wind up getting into in the 98 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: episode itself, because I just I felt like that was 99 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: getting a really long was quote skewed coverage maybe particularly 100 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: charged for archaeology, a field with large public interest that 101 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: generates understandings about past cultures with real or imagined descendants. 102 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: When mischaracterized archaeological data can fuel harmful ideologies. And so 103 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: what this part of it was about was the misuse 104 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: of archaeology to like support racist narratives. We have talked about, 105 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, people trying to argue that Britain and Northern 106 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: Europe Norse countries as a place that was historically exclusively white, 107 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: which is just not true. But how archaeological findings about 108 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: say vikings can be used to try to support these 109 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: racist ideologies that are not grounded in any kind of fact. 110 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: I also think it's possible for archaeological data to be 111 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: presented in a way that's not mischaracterized at all, but 112 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: is also used to harm to fuel harmful ideologies, which 113 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: is like as just a made up hypothetical example, we're 114 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: here in the United States going through just as we 115 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: talked about in the show, just ongoing assaults on the 116 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: fields of history and the idea that we should be 117 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: accurately reflecting the past, including the many ways that things 118 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: have gone really wrong. And I think it's totally possible 119 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:35,119 Speaker 1: to look at an archaeological site of say a colonial community, 120 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: and say, oh, it looks like this colonial community had 121 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of different people from a bunch of different 122 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: races and ethnicities, and based on this evidence, it seems 123 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: like everybody was living a pretty egalitarian, equality based lifestyle, 124 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: and then trying to use that to like undermine the 125 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: fact that they're there was a lot of slavery and 126 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: genocide and equality going on. But like then this hypothetical, 127 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: made up thing that could have been particularly true like 128 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: for this one community, Like we are living through an 129 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: era of the federal government trying to create narratives using 130 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: history and by extension, archaeology and I think it's it's 131 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: so easy for me to imagine things that can be 132 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: picked out of you know, the of history and historical 133 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: documents and archaeological research and all of that that straightforwardly 134 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: correctly interpreted findings can then be used to further hateful agendas. 135 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, this explanation of this has become 136 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: incredibly long. Let's narrow down the focus of the discussion 137 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: of this paper to be a little more, uh, a 138 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: little a little more on the what the core of 139 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: it was was, which was this comparison of peer reviewed 140 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: articles to news coverage other random stuff that I had 141 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: written down one of the news articles that I had 142 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: found that I had bookmarked that I was going to 143 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: put in And then I was like, I think this 144 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: might be of interest only to me, which is that 145 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: the Louver has stopped renting out Nintendo three DS's for 146 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: their audio and video tours at the museum. Yeah, when 147 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: you were at the Louver, did you get one of these? Patrick? 148 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: And I did, and it was really cool. Keep in 149 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: mind I went to the Louver when we were all 150 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: there in Paris with my gaggling group of friends. Okay, 151 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: we're not we want to talk to each other. We 152 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: want to come into the car. We're not going to 153 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: sit there and listen to headsets. So funny to me, 154 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: So whenever, ninety percent of the time, I would say, 155 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: when Patrick and I go to a museum together, we 156 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: get the audio tour. And when we were in Paris, 157 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: to get the audio tour at the Louver, you had 158 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: to give them your ID because they were renting you 159 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: a Nintendo three DS. 160 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: And because of the. 161 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: Location awareness abilities of the three DS, it knew where 162 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: you were in the museum and it could pull up 163 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: contextually relevant stuff for youah. And there were also places 164 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: that had like a three D counterpart to the object 165 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: that you were looking at. So like, let's say you're 166 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: looking at one of the statues that has lost various 167 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: pieces of it in the millennia since it was made. 168 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: The three DS could have on the screen like a 169 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: three D overlay view of what all the pieces were. 170 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: It was really really cool. 171 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: And so when I saw this article, I was like, oh, 172 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that, and I was like, 173 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't think that's relevant to like ninety percent of 174 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: the people who would be listening to this, especially since 175 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: there was no indication of what is replacing it at 176 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: the louver, Like, what is They've stopped issuing them as 177 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: part of this, but they have not said, like, what 178 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: is the next thing that will be available as some 179 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: kind of audio or video tour. 180 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me wonder if they're going to go 181 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: with an app. Yeah. 182 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: So many places now have apps or just QR codes 183 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: on the wall that you can look at with your phone. Yeah, 184 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: which is also really cool and I think helps to 185 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: make museums. 186 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 2: In some ways more accessible. 187 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: I would say the typical person coming to a museum 188 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: who's an adult probably has a phone and hopefully earbuds 189 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: with them and can be a little easier, especially if 190 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: you already have accessibility settings on your device that help 191 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: you with things that might be a little easier than 192 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: like the the units that you carry around with plug 193 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: in ear phones. Uh. 194 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. 195 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: I don't love being in public with headphones on. 196 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 197 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: It makes me super uneasy. Yeah, because I'm like, if 198 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: there's an emergency and I don't hear it, Yeah, listen. 199 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: My whole life is situational awareness, So I'm like, I 200 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: don't want to. I'm very Uh, It's infrequent that I 201 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: will listen to headphones. Even on a flight, I'll subtile 202 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: it and sit there and be on my. 203 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: Reading. Yeah. 204 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what that's about. I don't know 205 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: what part of me is like, you're going to miss 206 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: something important? If if it's kind of the same part 207 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: of my anxiety that doesn't like taking like prescription grade 208 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: pain reavers because I'm like, I will not be prepared 209 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: in an emergency. 210 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. 211 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: Another note that I had jotted down about this is 212 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: not of an earthed, was two things about the Song 213 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,599 Speaker 1: of Wade. One one of the researchers involved with this 214 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: was named James Wade, not related to the Song of Wade. 215 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: But boy did it make various reading about this confusing 216 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: to me because there would be references to Song of 217 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: Wade and Wade the character, and then James Wade the researcher, 218 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: and every once in a while I was like, wait 219 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: a minute, who are you talking about? Here? Are we 220 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: talking about a poem or a living person. Also, as 221 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: someone who has for my entire life had bad handwriting, 222 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: boy do I empathize with the idea that some some 223 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: scribe working with a document that was in both Latin 224 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: and Middle English might have just made some unclear writing 225 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: choices that people later were like, what does this say? 226 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: Although theoretically if that person had bad handwriting, they wouldn't 227 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: be a scribe. 228 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: Well, they might have just been tired. 229 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: Maybe, or they may have a aready given notice and 230 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: they're kind of coasting on a short time or day, Like, 231 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: what are they gonna do? Fire me? I'm just gonna 232 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: whip through this as quick as I can. Let's throw 233 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: in some mythological creatures and really check it up. Yeah, yeah, 234 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: I guess. The last thing that I wanted to talk 235 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: about is from the very beginning of the two parter 236 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: where I had to read something the President put on 237 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: Truth Social, which I ask you ahead of time, and 238 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: I say, you would rather not. I'm pretty game for 239 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: most stuff, but I was a girl. 240 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: I can't do it. Yeah. 241 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: So what I wanted to talk specifically about, one of 242 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: the portions that was in all capital letters of this 243 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: truth Social post was about how the United States cannot 244 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: be woke because woke is broke, and so I just 245 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: want to talk about the word woke for a minute. 246 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: The first time I remember seeing anyone use the word woke. 247 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: I do not remember exactly which incident this was because 248 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: there have been so many, but it was probably ten 249 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: ish years ago and was one of the many incidents 250 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: we have had in the United States in which police 251 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: killed an unarmed black person and there was horrifying video 252 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: of what had happened. And on Twitter, because this was 253 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: back in the earlier era of Twitter, someone tweeted they 254 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: were a black person, you could tell from the tone. 255 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: That they were, were tweeting two. 256 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: Other black people, and said, if you are just waking up, 257 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: stay woke. And so the idea was, if you are 258 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: seeing this and you're really absorbing what is happening for 259 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: the first time, and you're horrified, stay stay present with this, 260 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: stay aware of what's happening. And so this is a 261 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: term that has been used, uh primarily among Black Americans 262 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: for a really long time, with those kinds of ideas 263 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: being awake and aware to what is going on around you, right, 264 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: it's like situational awareness at the meta level. Yeah, and 265 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: to like the world that we are living in and 266 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: to like the realities of that world and and and 267 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: the harm that it causes, specifically to black people. And 268 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: so the fact that people have taken that term and 269 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: turned it into political correctness version two point zero to 270 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: criticize anybody who tries to use like progressive language, or 271 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: to try to be inclusive in terms of how they 272 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: talk about things like sex and gender, to be racially progressive, 273 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: to be anti racist, to be any of that. The 274 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: fact that it's become this weird insult about a lot 275 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 1: of the same things that people used to yell at 276 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: us about being two PC over Yeah, it just makes 277 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: me really angry. Yeah, And I will say this, some 278 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: of the problem comes from the appropriation of language like 279 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: that by well intentioned white people, sure who then adopted 280 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: into their vernacular probably misuse it a lot. 281 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that. 282 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: Makes it easier for people with nefarious intent to then 283 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: twist the meaning, which is why I think it's super 284 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: important for people to be careful about trying to be cool. 285 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: And I'm putting that in quotes. That's definitely in scare quotes. 286 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: But like appropriation of language, there's a reason that we're 287 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: so nitpicky about it, and that's an example of why. 288 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: Right. 289 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: There's also at this point an increasing body of research 290 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: on things like social media and linguistics, how we use 291 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: different language, and how things are being covered in media 292 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: and talked about in media. That is remarking on a 293 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: like a big disparity between what progressives are actually saying 294 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: and what conservatives are saying they're saying, and it's like 295 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: what conservatives are saying progressives are saying saying is driving 296 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: the bus rather than what is actually being said. So yeah, 297 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: I did not like having to read that true social 298 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: post on the show. But I also felt like it 299 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: was an important part of context for the letter to 300 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian, which read on a just straightforward surface level. 301 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: But I can see people being like, this sounds reasonable, 302 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: though they're saying it's collaborative and forward. 303 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: Looking, like I don't know. 304 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: But also I go back to the thing that like 305 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian should not be getting that letter right right 306 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: from the White House period. 307 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: End of discussion. Yeah. 308 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: Also, anytime I have gotten a letter or an email 309 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: instructing me of something and telling me that this instruction 310 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: is collaborative, I'm like, that's that's not what collaboration means. 311 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: Accurate collaboration is not you tell me to do something 312 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: and then I do it. Yeah, anyway, would you like 313 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: to end on a note that is my ding dongeri. 314 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: I would love that. 315 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: I love any and every time that Unearthed features the 316 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: Antikitterer mechanism because I love it to begin with, as 317 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: you know, that's extremely my jam, but also because now 318 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: I can just you know, in my head it's like 319 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: Pavlov's dog. The bell rings and I just hear the 320 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: incredibly incredibly appealing MAT's Michelson saying a dictata, and I'm like, okay, 321 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm good for at least the next ten minutes my 322 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: dopamine needs are handled. Great, Oh, yay, yay. I will 323 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: make sure every single time. Well, since since this five 324 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: year project of dives to the Antikit Thrier shipwreck as over, 325 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the next finds related to that. 326 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: Surely someone else is in line put their next shot 327 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, I will make sure to always include 328 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: that I think I just heard a siren. Everything's fine 329 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: at my house if anyone is alarmed. Whatever's coming up 330 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: on your weekend, man, boy do I hope it is 331 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: just as amazing as possible. If you like to go 332 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: outside and sit in the warm grass, and there's warm 333 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: grass you can go sit in, I hope you get 334 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: to do that and then check yourself for takes afterward. 335 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: If if you're more of an inside kid and you 336 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: want to spend some time playing video games or watching TV. 337 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: Boy do I hope you have the best video game 338 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: and TV watching time. We will be back with a 339 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: Saturday Classic tomorrow. We will have something brand new on Monday. 340 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 341 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 342 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.