Speaker 1: The volume.
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Speaker 2: all right, John Middlecoff, it's time for our hour plus
Speaker 2: on a Sunday. He is the former NFL scout for
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Eagles Three and Out podcast. Let's start with
Speaker 2: a team you're near and dear to the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 2: So they did it on the ground, in the air.
Speaker 2: They beat the Jags twenty eight to twenty three. Although
Speaker 2: Jacksonville with a massive late game comeback, Trevor Lawrence one
Speaker 2: got a little loose onomy threw a pick in the
Speaker 2: end zone. You know, my takeaway on this is I'll
Speaker 2: go back to saying this, Jalen's not making the mistakes
Speaker 2: and Barkley, Saquon Barkley's absolutely. With Christian McCaffrey not playing yet,
Speaker 2: Barkley is the best running back in the league. And
Speaker 2: I think what Jalen hurts as they win today, My
Speaker 2: take is they've gotten him out of the position where
Speaker 2: I don't feel like he's ad libbing or out of
Speaker 2: control like I thought Jordan loved today for the Packers.
Speaker 2: Was out of control multiple times. I kind of think
Speaker 2: Philadelphia's figured out kind of the way to use Jalen.
Speaker 1: What do you see well, I think Saquon's definitely changed
Speaker 1: their team. I mean he's been him and Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1: You talk about additions this offseason, those two guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: Derek Henry was probably a Hall of Fame player before this.
Speaker 1: Now he cemented himself. I mean, there's no one's ever
Speaker 1: questioned Saquon's talent. I mean, what would Penn State do
Speaker 1: to have that guy right now on their team? I mean,
Speaker 1: they did have an offensive weapon, But to me, I mean,
Speaker 1: the only reason that game was close was Sirianni and Kellen.
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what was going on there with
Speaker 1: some of the play calling. They instead of kicking a
Speaker 1: field goals, I didn't get that, decided not to do
Speaker 1: the tush push and they roll him out and he's
Speaker 1: got nowhere to go, Like right now, their offense, I
Speaker 1: mean aj Brown, which is a pretty big deal. Not
Speaker 1: maybe in this game, but I guess they play the
Speaker 1: Cowboys next week, so not in that game either, but
Speaker 1: in two weeks against Washington. His presence for them to
Speaker 1: beat really good teams as a must have. But when
Speaker 1: you're playing a team like today, DeVante Smith what a
Speaker 1: draft pick? I mean, I thought, wait, this guy's gonna
Speaker 1: be one hundred and seventy five pounds.
Speaker 2: I don't think he would last in this league.
Speaker 1: How about his one handed to so you had Saquan
Speaker 1: to him? I mean the guy that had the game
Speaker 1: winning interception to Kobe Dean. I mean, they have a
Speaker 1: lot of young defensive players. The last couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: Nolan Smith has been all over the quarterback like I
Speaker 1: trust Vic Fangio. To me, it just gets down to
Speaker 1: Sirianni who if they had lost today Colin to Doug
Speaker 1: Peterson and the Jags who they had fired do you
Speaker 1: know who? I mean? Embiid would have been let off
Speaker 1: the hook. It would have been a Siria. You cannot
Speaker 1: lose that game and it got weird obviously the freak
Speaker 1: Saquon fumble, But that's a little too close for comfort
Speaker 1: given how well their top guys were playing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean Barkley was great, Jalen went like
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty four, two hundred and thirty yards. No,
Speaker 2: you know, no interceptions there were. The receivers that were
Speaker 2: on the field were excellent. They actually, I mean they
Speaker 2: had four hundred and fifty plus yards of offense, six
Speaker 2: point five yards per play. They were great on third down.
Speaker 2: They dominate time of possession. And you look up and
Speaker 2: you're like, you're at home, and it's twenty eight twenty three.
Speaker 1: It's they were up twenty two. Nothing right. It looked
Speaker 1: like they were gonna blow him out forty to ten
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just I just feel like I kind of feel
Speaker 2: like this is the rare instance. And I felt this
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago with Detroit. But I've come
Speaker 2: to terms with Ben Johnson, the coordinator for the Lions.
Speaker 2: I didn't trust. I really didn't trust Dan Campbell.
Speaker 1: I do now.
Speaker 2: I think I think he has grown. I think he's
Speaker 2: a little less emotional now. I also think he realizes
Speaker 2: he's no longer hunting. He's being hunted. They're the favorite.
Speaker 2: I think he I think like today they got a lead,
Speaker 2: they got real smart, they got real conservative. It was
Speaker 2: really really smart Lions football. I think I feel like
Speaker 2: Sirianni's like Dan Campbell a couple of years ago. He's
Speaker 2: still trying to prove himself. I want to show you
Speaker 2: guys how smart I am. And then when you make
Speaker 2: mistakes like yelling at the crowd and get your hands
Speaker 2: slapped by the owners, then you kind of double down
Speaker 2: on I want to show how smart I am. And
Speaker 2: there I just think with Dan Campbell, I've seen growth.
Speaker 2: I do think he's a better, more mature coach today.
Speaker 2: And with Siriani, I think they're going to get to
Speaker 2: the playoffs and I think they're gonna have all these
Speaker 2: weapons and outplay people, and I think they're gonna lose
Speaker 2: to a really smart, efficient team.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think in two weeks Colin, I was looking
Speaker 1: at the schedule this week doing podcasts, and they play
Speaker 1: They played the Cowboys this upcoming week, so I mean
Speaker 1: they can put a nail and it completely in their season.
Speaker 1: Thursday night, so this upcoming Sunday and then the following
Speaker 1: Thursday they play Washington, and I think we all agree.
Speaker 1: I mean, Washington played the Giants today. That game wasn't
Speaker 1: even a game. But the talent on the two teams,
Speaker 1: the Eagles have a better roster. I mean we all
Speaker 1: thought that the Chicago game, like Chicago has the better roster,
Speaker 1: but dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury, they have been talk about
Speaker 1: a tandem a head coach, offensive coordinator, tandem rookie quarterback.
Speaker 1: All the pressure in that game in two weeks or
Speaker 1: less of that ten days is on the Eagles. So
Speaker 1: in those when they play Washington twice in Philly and
Speaker 1: at Washington, it's one hundred percent on Philadelphia. I mean,
Speaker 1: Washington is going to be a playoff team, but they're
Speaker 1: playing with house money. If they were to win the division,
Speaker 1: it would be one of the most incredible accomplishments we've
Speaker 1: ever seen. So the pressure on Sirianni if it's a
Speaker 1: tight game, does he do one of those things where
Speaker 1: he doesn't kick a field goal and they get stuffed.
Speaker 1: They kind of don't trust the tush push, as you know,
Speaker 1: it didn't work a couple times in this game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So to me, you're paying your kicker a lot of money.
Speaker 1: I know he missed a kick, but like he's gonna
Speaker 1: make most of them. Like kickfield goals, they do matter
Speaker 1: at the end of the game, like they could have
Speaker 1: lost today because they had kind of given their way
Speaker 1: to going forward on two points and not kicking field goals.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Siriani's the biggest wild card in the league
Speaker 1: because there's no disputing went healthy the talent on that squad.
Speaker 2: All right, Atlanta beats the Cowboys twenty seven to twenty one.
Speaker 2: So if you didn't watch this game, I could sum
Speaker 2: it up with the multiple false starts, the nine penalties
Speaker 2: for Dallas, too many men on the field, and a
Speaker 2: fourth down. Atlanta basically got out rushed, out passed. But
Speaker 2: Dallas was so bad on fourth down, so many pedalties,
Speaker 2: so inefficient, and Kirk Cousins just go out, goes out
Speaker 2: nineteen to twenty four, doesn't make any big mistakes. Like
Speaker 2: Atlanta's not physically impressive, but Atlanta's really efficient because they
Speaker 2: brought Kirk Cousins in, who just doesn't make a lot
Speaker 2: of mistakes. He gets you in and out of plays.
Speaker 2: When I watched Dallan US today, Mike McCary, Mike McCarthy's
Speaker 2: frustration with you. I mean, when you have Dak Prescott,
Speaker 2: you're a veteran team, you can't have false starts, illegal motions,
Speaker 2: Like it feels like to me that is so much
Speaker 2: on the quarterback. Now he left and Cooper Rush came in.
Speaker 2: But I you know, I had said before the year,
Speaker 2: this was one of my I guess I'm actually wrong
Speaker 2: on this. I said Dallas won't make the playoffs. It'll
Speaker 2: be Philadelphia and Washington in that division. It will begin
Speaker 2: a slight regression. John. They may be a bottom four
Speaker 2: team in the league. And I'm dead serious. They're they're
Speaker 2: They're better than the Raiders because of Dak uh Hell
Speaker 2: and Cooper Rush. I think they're better than Carolina, probably
Speaker 2: better than New Orleans now they weren't in Week two.
Speaker 2: Dallas is a bad football team without a lot of
Speaker 2: good players.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought coming into this week we were gonna learn, like,
Speaker 1: are they just going to end up sucking all season
Speaker 1: and being a five or six win team or they
Speaker 1: gonna have a little heart and battle and you know,
Speaker 1: at the end of the year be eight nine. But
Speaker 1: have shown some metal throughout the year. I think they're
Speaker 1: headed toward five or six wins now, Yeah, and today
Speaker 1: didn't it symbolize before the game even kicked off, they
Speaker 1: less they left Zeke back at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All I had heard from Cowboys people is listen, we
Speaker 1: know he doesn't have as much, but the leadership, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the camaraderie, him and Dak are close. And then these
Speaker 1: stories about he never shows up on time, he's disgruntled.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, then why is he on the team?
Speaker 1: And is that a little bit I'm not putting this
Speaker 1: all on Dak, but isn't that Dak's one of his
Speaker 1: best friends? Like, so what do we got going on there?
Speaker 1: And then as the game goes on today it was
Speaker 1: a reflection of they don't have that much talent. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean how often today Jesus even on like just
Speaker 1: random innocuous plays Bijon in space out in the flat
Speaker 1: and three guys would whiff and he'd get eight yards.
Speaker 1: That should have been one.
Speaker 2: Listen, John, on a fourth and one, they have so
Speaker 2: little talent in the backfield. On a fourth and one,
Speaker 2: they had to use deception on a quick on a
Speaker 2: like a jet sweep to CD left.
Speaker 1: Now end around. Yeah, it worked.
Speaker 2: About twenty minutes later, same play, but on fourth and
Speaker 2: one with a very strong quarterback Zach Martin, one of
Speaker 2: the great guards ever, they had to get clever and tricky.
Speaker 2: They have no run game. One of the easiest predictions
Speaker 2: anybody could have made going into this season is Dallas
Speaker 2: would have the worst running back room in the league.
Speaker 2: I mean, we watched Zeke in New England. He can't
Speaker 2: he's done, it's over. They made no moves, they they
Speaker 2: It's remarkable. Now I'm not saying Derek Henry would be
Speaker 2: as good as we've talked about in Dallas. As Baltimore,
Speaker 2: you start looking at it. I've said before the season,
Speaker 2: if Ceedee Lamb twisted an ankle, this is the worst
Speaker 2: offense in the league. I mean, it's it's I watched
Speaker 2: them today and I'm like, they it was just all
Speaker 2: a cotton candy yards. I mean, Atlanta was so much smarter,
Speaker 2: more efficient, good on third down.
Speaker 1: I was. I was playing golf the other day with
Speaker 1: a diehard cowboy fan. This guy's been to countless games
Speaker 1: over the last thirty years, and I asked him, do
Speaker 1: you do you think Dak Prescott's better than Tony Romo?
Speaker 1: And you were always one of Tony's biggest defenders. And
Speaker 1: he said, you know, I would have told you four
Speaker 1: or five years ago, yes, but at this point in time,
Speaker 1: you can't watch these games. Up until Tony's back went,
Speaker 1: he was a more dynamic absolutely, absolutely, And in twenty one,
Speaker 1: twenty two, and even last year, those teams were so good.
Speaker 1: I mean in twenty one and twenty two the Cowboys
Speaker 1: were really good. I mean they had a home playoff game,
Speaker 1: they were toe to toe with the Niners in the
Speaker 1: second round, and they're I mean, Dak didn't just have
Speaker 1: one bad play, like he was atrocious through most of
Speaker 1: those games. So I think, listen, this is not his fault,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of the pie chart, one hundred
Speaker 1: percent if they go six or seven or maybe five wins.
Speaker 1: But he has kind of crumbled like he has not
Speaker 1: been an elevator, talk about trailers and tractors. Clear where
Speaker 1: he falls. And honestly, today was just an embarrassing day
Speaker 1: for the organization. Yeah, I mean, I think Mike's hands
Speaker 1: were on it, Jerry's hands were on it because the
Speaker 1: Zeke thing to me symbolized is I thought that moment
Speaker 1: I thought the Bears benching the guy for like two series, like,
Speaker 1: this is not little league or high school. We're not
Speaker 1: teaching life lessons. You either leave him at home, yeah,
Speaker 1: and make him in active to show like this will
Speaker 1: never be tolerated, or you just start him like this
Speaker 1: is a business. You know, we're trying to win or lose.
Speaker 1: I got Nope. I would have made him an active
Speaker 1: to show everyone just like the Cowboys did. Zeke, you're
Speaker 1: not showing up, but there's no middle ground. This isn't
Speaker 1: high school football where it's like you're gonna sit out
Speaker 1: the first series or two like that. That to me
Speaker 1: is so dumb. I mean, that's that's embarrassing at the
Speaker 1: highest level. It just that's why, you know, certain teams lose,
Speaker 1: and obviously the same teams consistently win over and over.
Speaker 2: A game today that I thought was important and symbolic,
Speaker 2: Arizona crushes the Bears twenty nine to nine. Kyler Murray
Speaker 2: barely had to throw. There was a lot of I mean,
Speaker 2: they led twenty nine, twenty one to nine and a half.
Speaker 2: I think the bigger story is Caleb Williams was ineffective.
Speaker 2: The offensive line was overwhelmed. The offensive line. I've talked
Speaker 2: about this so many times, John defensive coaches and offensive
Speaker 2: lines are a problem the Bears. Klob's been outplayed badly
Speaker 2: by Kyler Murray and Jaden Daniels the last two weeks.
Speaker 2: He's dancing around in the back getting sacked by Arizona.
Speaker 2: Offensive lines gotten worse, and I watched today there was
Speaker 2: a safety on the Bears at one point as they
Speaker 2: lost twenty nine to nine. There wasn't a There wasn't
Speaker 2: once we got to the second quarter. There wasn't a
Speaker 2: minute I thought Chicago could win. I think Caleb is
Speaker 2: clearly even though bow Knicks got rolled today, Baltimore at
Speaker 2: homes a much better. That was one of the easiest
Speaker 2: bets of the year. Taking the Ravens minus eight to nine.
Speaker 2: Bow Knicks looks like he's got it to earned control.
Speaker 2: I mean there's I think he really looks like for
Speaker 2: the personnel they have, obviously Jaden.
Speaker 1: He actually didn't play terribly.
Speaker 2: No, No, he wasn't he. I mean they don't have
Speaker 2: seven guys who would start for the Ravens. Damn Patrick Certan.
Speaker 2: Maybe a safety, that's about it. But when I look
Speaker 2: at Caleb Bright now they average three point four yards
Speaker 2: of play. It is screaming to get rid of Matt Eberflus.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just a whole game. I'm like this,
Speaker 2: it just doesn't work. He doesn't have the right coordinator.
Speaker 2: It's a mess in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Now, Well, if I had told you by the middle
Speaker 1: of the season that if the Bears called up the
Speaker 1: Washington Commanders and said before the season and said, would
Speaker 1: you trade Jade and Daniels straight up for Caleb Williams,
Speaker 1: and the Commanders would laugh at them and hang up
Speaker 1: the phone, you would have said the Bears have serious issues.
Speaker 1: Because two things can be true. Today was an embarrassing
Speaker 1: day for Eberflus, but so was last week, and so
Speaker 1: was this offseason when it was pretty clear you're putting
Speaker 1: this guy into a lame duck situation. This is not
Speaker 1: a McCarthy that at least listen. I know he's under
Speaker 1: his last year, but he has a long resume of success,
Speaker 1: and he coaches the quarterback who you're going to pay
Speaker 1: two hundred million dollars to. This is a head coach.
Speaker 1: A he's a good defensive coach, never won anything, and
Speaker 1: you have no faith that he's going to do it,
Speaker 1: and now you have to fire him. A year in.
Speaker 1: But I think the bigger picture, you see it with
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence. I mean, they brought in Doug and this
Speaker 1: is just not going well for him relative to hype.
Speaker 1: These things can snowball and get out of hand fast,
Speaker 1: and you invested, Actually you didn't because you made the trade,
Speaker 1: but you got this player. You chose him over these
Speaker 1: other players, specifically Jayden, who again long way to go.
Speaker 1: I mean ideally they both have fifteen year careers. Jayden
Speaker 1: Daniels is currently one of the best players in the NFL,
Speaker 1: no question like he's one of the best players in
Speaker 1: the NFL.
Speaker 2: It looks totally under control.
Speaker 1: And Caleb looks like a mid round pick forced to
Speaker 1: start because a quarterback got injured in the preseason. He
Speaker 1: makes some place, but he misses a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that Listen, we saw him making college and this gets
Speaker 1: back to people that were questioning him. He can freelance
Speaker 1: and get a little willy nilly, and that doesn't really
Speaker 1: work in the NFL. And you see him just get Pepper.
Speaker 1: He's not comfortable in the pocket. The coaching staff's terrible.
Speaker 1: I do think the Tyreek Stevenson benching was just a
Speaker 1: joke and if I'm Ebraflus, I wouldn't want him in active.
Speaker 1: I'd want to just start them. But if you're Ryan Poles,
Speaker 1: you're not going anywhere. You want to show all these
Speaker 1: other guys that like the standards are high. They're in
Speaker 1: no man's land, right, they really are. And I doubt
Speaker 1: they would fire I mean, that's a fireable game. I
Speaker 1: don't expect the Bears to fire him. But like these
Speaker 1: last two weeks, I mean they were thoroughly outplayed the
Speaker 1: week before too, right, it was you know, I know,
Speaker 1: the Hail Mary, but they were work that game, like
Speaker 1: we know, before they even get to the tough stretch
Speaker 1: of their season, Like this ain't a playoff team like
Speaker 1: this team, I mean Arizona, that to me is like
Speaker 1: a fringe wild card team. Just beat the living piss
Speaker 1: out of them. I just can't take the Bear seriously anymore.
Speaker 2: No, And this was supposed to be the two game
Speaker 2: stretch Arizona and New England next where they had a
Speaker 2: shot right to make up some gay before they go
Speaker 2: into Detroit, Minnesota, San Francis, go Green Bay. You know,
Speaker 2: I think there's I've always said there's one or two
Speaker 2: things in football that are undervalued, and yet there are
Speaker 2: things we know are valuable. I think a great offensive
Speaker 2: coordinator or great offensive coach, you're better on third down,
Speaker 2: You're better on offensive line, you're better at drafting offensive personnel.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Rams just figure out ways to mix
Speaker 2: and match their offensive line. They're in a wild one
Speaker 2: with the Seahawks today, but there's still, you know, ham
Speaker 2: an egg in the interior of the offensive line. These
Speaker 2: defensive coaches. Chicago's offensive line last year felt like an
Speaker 2: ascending group. You had your tackles a little soft in
Speaker 2: the middle. It is a mess with Caleb Williams mobility,
Speaker 2: it's a mess today. So I just think you get
Speaker 2: to a point where you I don't think people understand
Speaker 2: the difference between a really smart offensive coach and an
Speaker 2: average defensive coach. It is a touched down to ten
Speaker 2: point difference a game.
Speaker 1: I do think to that moment last week on the
Speaker 1: Hail Mary was reflective of their head coach, right, because
Speaker 1: let's take a couple of top defensive coaches, right Tomlin
Speaker 1: John Harbaugh especial teams guy, but he also the dB guy.
Speaker 1: You could never envision that play with that player happening,
Speaker 1: taunting the crowd like that that just would never happen
Speaker 1: with the Ravens and Steelers in that moment. So to me,
Speaker 1: that reflected let alone, like he's been pretty good on defense.
Speaker 1: Today he loses his best defensive player. James Connor looked
Speaker 1: like Walter Payton against him. I mean it was like,
Speaker 1: you guys are that dependent on one guy. And offensively,
Speaker 1: I always talk about like defensive guys know nothing about offense, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, they know how to stop offenses, but they
Speaker 1: don't know. They're not calling the plays, they're not in
Speaker 1: their coaching.
Speaker 2: Brady Brady Brady made fun of Belichick not even understanding
Speaker 2: the terminology of offense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's so the Bears. Honestly, this goes
Speaker 1: back to what ten months ago, eleven months ago, when
Speaker 1: they knew and they tried to have their cake and
Speaker 1: eat it too and keep their fingers crossed, and now
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to fire this guy, and it sets
Speaker 1: the whole clock off when they could have just started
Speaker 1: at scratch. Maybe Ben Johnson would have been interested, Maybe
Speaker 1: they could have hired v Abel and just had a
Speaker 1: fresh runway. Now you derail everything because one thing you
Speaker 1: would say is like well, Ebra flu is kind of
Speaker 1: good on defense, so now you get a new guy.
Speaker 1: It just, you know, upsets the Apple card, which needed
Speaker 1: upsetting in January. I mean, and today was today was
Speaker 1: really bad because coming off that loss, I thought two
Speaker 1: teams had huge bounce. Like to me, the Ravens of
Speaker 1: last year blow the team out, and they did today.
Speaker 1: So it's like, okay, you know the Browns game weird
Speaker 1: Outliar Jamis got hot, throw that away. The Ravens are
Speaker 1: the real deal. And the Bears like, okay, if this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a wildcard team. They come into Arizona.
Speaker 1: Even if it's tight. Arizona's not easy. You win the game.
Speaker 1: A lot of I live out here. I would imagine
Speaker 1: that were half the stadium was Bears fans. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's a big deal for them. And they got like
Speaker 1: you said, that game was over before it even started.
Speaker 1: They got shellacked.
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Speaker 2: Arizona is in first place. I've been saying this.
Speaker 1: For They're good, they look good.
Speaker 2: They look good. Now they've got the Jets. You know,
Speaker 2: a team that you know looks good at home on
Speaker 2: Thursday nights, but has not been a team that can
Speaker 2: go on the road. And it feels like the Jets
Speaker 2: only play home games, I swear. So now they go
Speaker 2: on the road to Arizona. Between McBride, Harrison, who's and
Speaker 2: cold Kyler their protections? Okay, I just I.
Speaker 1: Think is the t the tight end is fantastic player? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Arizona is a sneaky good football team.
Speaker 2: And I think the Jets Arizona next week is a
Speaker 2: fantastic game. It's a great and it's I don't want
Speaker 2: to just talk about the Bears because we've been on
Speaker 2: this for about a month. If you don't watch Arizona
Speaker 2: and you're you know, you're saying, who are they beaten?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: They they beat San Francisco. They got dudes. Offensively, they
Speaker 2: are They've got to start every unit and I and
Speaker 2: they're good enough on the offensive line. You've you've been
Speaker 2: on Connor since last year, the running back. So this
Speaker 2: this isn't just about Chicago. Arizona. Arizona keeps you on
Speaker 2: your toes. They didn't even throw the ball for long
Speaker 2: stretches today, they just moved the pocket and highly effective.
Speaker 1: You know, one thing, remember after they lost Super Bowl
Speaker 1: two years ago, everyone thought Jonathan Gannon was like the
Speaker 1: village idiot, right yeah, because he blew some coverages and
Speaker 1: they walked right in for touchdowns. And when he got hired,
Speaker 1: he had some of those moments that kind of went
Speaker 1: viral that made him look like a nerd or whatever.
Speaker 1: All my buddies with the Eagles said they loved him,
Speaker 1: and they said, I'll promise you this. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's you know, you know Belichick or Bill Walsh schematically,
Speaker 1: but I think he's going to be a better head
Speaker 1: coach than he was a coordinator. And he was a
Speaker 1: pretty good coordinator for us. He's a great leader and
Speaker 1: you watch his teams Niner game, huge comeback, the Dolphins
Speaker 1: win last week, I would say age better today. They
Speaker 1: look way better with Tua, like they look like a
Speaker 1: real football team. They were down double digits on the road.
Speaker 1: Usually West Coast teams flying to the East Coast that
Speaker 1: early kickoff historically have always looked pretty shitty in that spot.
Speaker 1: They come storming back. And then today you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this could be a little letdown spot with the Bears,
Speaker 1: little chip on their shoulder, and they came. They look
Speaker 1: like a division. They look like a playoff team.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And their physicality, I mean Buddha Baker when he's healthy,
Speaker 1: he's flying around. Their defense just well coached, makes a
Speaker 1: bunch of tackles, and they have a physical presence their offense. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And like you said, like I think Kyler, I know,
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Gannon has talked about this all the time,
Speaker 1: and I see him on a bunch of like local
Speaker 1: TV out here as press conferences. Listen, I can't speak
Speaker 1: to what he was like before me this him talking.
Speaker 1: He has been mature, so that call of duty guy.
Speaker 1: I do think he's been a lot better for them.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's just a bunch of people talking crap
Speaker 1: about him, you know, lights of fire, unders ass, but
Speaker 1: they like him, yeah, I mean just in terms of
Speaker 1: his work ethic relative to what it was for Cliff
Speaker 1: and Kime. I do think. Listen, some humans just we
Speaker 1: all mature at different ages. Some guys are Peyton Manning
Speaker 1: mature at fifteen that's right. Other guys like Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: mature at twenty eight. Yeah, some guys are like Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: who were still not sure. You know, I think, like
Speaker 1: I do, think we got to be open. You remember
Speaker 1: Kyler was a young player when he came into the NFL. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think he's just playing. The way he's playing
Speaker 1: is just pretty high level, competent football and with his
Speaker 1: skill set. Yeah, we've never really seen a player like him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay. Detroit beats Green Bay twenty four to fourteen.
Speaker 2: Brian Branch got ejected for the Lions in the first half, and.
Speaker 1: I thought, can't happen.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, this is It didn't matter.
Speaker 2: It was seventeen three at a half. Jordan Love had to
Speaker 2: pick six. I thought, Jordan Love today was really sloppy. Now,
Speaker 2: it was raining hard when it started, it got worse.
Speaker 2: But I think you and I would agree that we
Speaker 2: thought that was an advantage for Green Bay and goff
Speaker 2: is like seventeen at twenty one. This is I think
Speaker 2: we just have to be honest here. Detroit's the best
Speaker 2: team in the league. Kansas City's got the trophy. Room
Speaker 2: the team I'm watching now the way they play. I
Speaker 2: mean green Bay had ten penalties. Jordan Love had to
Speaker 2: pick six. I mean he missed a lot of open throws. Again,
Speaker 2: some of it's weather. But when you watch green Bay's
Speaker 2: youth and talent, and then you watch remember Detroit. Now,
Speaker 2: those guys aren't as old as San Francisco, but the
Speaker 2: Lions are older, more mature. They marched into Lambeau today
Speaker 2: and it was the grown ups and the really talented kids.
Speaker 2: Like I thought, they just put a foot on them
Speaker 2: really early.
Speaker 1: You know what I wrote down is about when they
Speaker 1: really took hold of that game in that weather, in
Speaker 1: a driving rain storm. It reminded me of the Belichick
Speaker 1: Brady teams when they would play a team in awful
Speaker 1: weather and you would just look up. It's like they
Speaker 1: are manhandling this team. And historically this is their first
Speaker 1: outdoor game of the year, and Goff has been not
Speaker 1: a very good outdoor player. But I do wonder if
Speaker 1: you remember that night game, Aaron Rodgers' last game. He
Speaker 1: outplayed Aaron Rodgers, I mean thoroughly outplayed in January early January. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's a different part of having Dan
Speaker 1: Campbell like a Hardbob Brother like a Tomlin uplifting you
Speaker 1: that even that extra confidence, they look like a completely
Speaker 1: different squad. Once Jordan Love through to me, I don't
Speaker 1: want to harp too much on the Brian Branch thing.
Speaker 1: That cannot happen. We can't be throwing players out. One
Speaker 1: of my biggest pet peeves in the world is the
Speaker 1: college thing. Yeah, throwing ninety nine percent of these kids
Speaker 1: will not play in the NFL and throwing them out
Speaker 1: in the NFL. I got no problem throwing a fifteen
Speaker 1: yard penalty, but Brian Branch is now their best defensive
Speaker 1: player to throw him out and it didn't even matter.
Speaker 1: And that's what go back to the Pelajack Patriot thing.
Speaker 1: It's like you could have removed players. They got you
Speaker 1: in that moment. And the Lions indoor team, like, are
Speaker 1: they kind of like the greatest show on turf in
Speaker 1: the early two No, they kind of have it both.
Speaker 1: They got that and they kind of got this Patriots.
Speaker 1: Even Brady during the game, he's like, you know, listen,
Speaker 1: this guy has been the most accurate stretch in three
Speaker 1: games like NFL history, but in this driving rainstorm, you
Speaker 1: never believe it. And he shows the things. He's he's
Speaker 1: eleven for eleven. He's like, how was he doing this?
Speaker 1: And he was just He's been the opposite his whole career.
Speaker 1: It's been not a inclement weather guy, and today he
Speaker 1: looked very comfortable. Obviously, Jordan Love's banged up. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought they should have yanked him at halftime and gotten
Speaker 1: to the other kid. But might it wouldn't have mattered
Speaker 1: much at that point in time. Once he threw that
Speaker 1: pick six and it's seventeen to three, didn't feel like
Speaker 1: the game was over. I mean it was gonna be
Speaker 1: hard to score a touchdown in general.
Speaker 2: Well, it's really hard, you know, when a defense can't
Speaker 2: get traction with their feet and we have the better
Speaker 2: offensive line. I mean, there was a moment Jamiir Gibbs
Speaker 2: had a touchdown run to make it twenty four to three.
Speaker 2: The size of the hole for jumior get and I'm
Speaker 2: not joking it was wider than this desk it may
Speaker 2: have been.
Speaker 1: You would have scored it was eight feet.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean literally, Penay Sewell had moved his guy
Speaker 2: near the sideline. Brady's like, he's like, look at these tackles.
Speaker 2: Their offensive line. It is it rivals, that Eagles team
Speaker 2: when Lane Johnson was healthy and Kelsey about four years
Speaker 2: ago when they were both the best at their position.
Speaker 2: They are moving and the Packers defense been pretty good
Speaker 2: this year. They moved it all day in the first half.
Speaker 1: And we've been talking a lot about Jordan Love and
Speaker 1: you know, comparing him. Listen, it's a good thing when
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers and Brett Farbes's names are coming up. But
Speaker 1: this was a game in that weather where you cannot
Speaker 1: turn the ball over like it cannot happen. You have
Speaker 1: to dominate on the run, you know, running the ball,
Speaker 1: control the clock, and play defense. And he did a
Speaker 1: play which he's done earlier this season reckless. You cannot
Speaker 1: afford to be reckless. That's why the Patriots in those
Speaker 1: games dominated. Brady would never turn the ball over, let
Speaker 1: alone make a play like that. And even Tom was like,
Speaker 1: you cannot do that. He tried to lob it over.
Speaker 1: I don't even know really what he was trying to do.
Speaker 1: You can't barely grip the ball. He is I've said
Speaker 1: before you asked me, I think a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: could they win the Super Bowl? And I said, they
Speaker 1: do have the talents, but he is way too much
Speaker 1: of a roller coaster. Right.
Speaker 2: There was a moment, there was a second and one
Speaker 2: and Brady called him out. And Brady said, dude, it's
Speaker 2: second one, you got third and one, fourth and one,
Speaker 2: you're trailing, you're gonna go.
Speaker 1: For it, and you got a great running back.
Speaker 2: And he's rolling right and he's pump faking, and it's
Speaker 2: just like Brad Brady. I don't think he wants to
Speaker 2: be hyper critical of young quarterbacks, but it was like,
Speaker 2: and I like Jordan a lot, but there are times
Speaker 2: he's always been more far than Rogers where he's he's
Speaker 2: gonna sling it. And I do think against Detroit you
Speaker 2: may have to because Detroit's got better personnel and they're older.
Speaker 2: But I kind of feel like, I kind of feel
Speaker 2: like today's a moment that you'll look at during the
Speaker 2: season and and we'll revisit this. I think Jordan is
Speaker 2: gonna have another one of these games later and we'll
Speaker 2: go back. And there was early warning sides because I
Speaker 2: really really like him, and Reid is a remarkable young receiver. Jesus,
Speaker 2: he's good, but they looked young and sloppy today.
Speaker 1: They really do Listen, I and I throw these names
Speaker 1: around when we're talking about these guys, but Rogers and
Speaker 1: Farv have a combined seven most valuable players. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think and I am. I'm as guilty as anyone.
Speaker 1: And Lafleur brings it up. This kid has a long
Speaker 1: way to go. Like can you just make back to
Speaker 1: back Pro Bowls? And you have games like today where
Speaker 1: you're at home. That's a huge advantage for you, and
Speaker 1: you take your team right out of the game. You're
Speaker 1: not going to be able to throw three touchdowns. And
Speaker 1: I say this all the time about the Packers. You know,
Speaker 1: they get some of these home games and the weather
Speaker 1: just turns to shit. I mean, I'm looking around the
Speaker 1: league today. The weather's not that terrible most places a
Speaker 1: little cold, it is awful there. Yeah, and you're just
Speaker 1: not going to be able. You're probably gonna give up
Speaker 1: a defense might score a touchdown, you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: run the ball. And the Lions are just a better
Speaker 1: version of that right now. They're just a better version
Speaker 1: of a team that can play ugly than the Packers.
Speaker 1: Clearly that's a rough l because I think that it'd
Speaker 1: be stunning now that if the Lions don't win that division, right,
Speaker 1: and all signs point to them being the number one
Speaker 1: seed in the NFC.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to talk about maybe not long, but
Speaker 2: Buffalo thirty Miami twenty seven. And I can admit, you know,
Speaker 2: I've always said to a small there's limitations in the
Speaker 2: AFC in January with a guy that can't doesn't have
Speaker 2: a big arm. But until we get to January, when
Speaker 2: it's September, October and November and maybe early December to
Speaker 2: it today, I think I wrote it down twenty five
Speaker 2: or twenty eight, two hundred and thirty one yards now.
Speaker 2: It was a crisp day in Buffalo, and I've been
Speaker 2: critical of you know, you gave him the bag. He's
Speaker 2: not winning in Baltimore, in Buffalo, in these cold weather areas.
Speaker 2: But when I watch him play, and then I watched
Speaker 2: Miami without him, could I make this argument He makes
Speaker 2: the Dolphins really good for eighteen weeks and he may
Speaker 2: never go on the road and win games. But look
Speaker 2: around this league, John, half the teams are horrible at
Speaker 2: quarterback there and I watched Tua today and I'm like, listen,
Speaker 2: this is Miami's a good watch. You can sell tickets.
Speaker 2: They can compete with anybody. I just don't trust them
Speaker 2: in January with him on the road. But if you
Speaker 2: ever want a division you'd play at home in Miami.
Speaker 2: It's a different story. Is I think we know he's small,
Speaker 2: we know he's not a great athlete, we know he
Speaker 2: didn't have a big arm. But I think we have
Speaker 2: to be honest. We have to be honest about this.
Speaker 2: The Rams just won, by the way and a deep
Speaker 2: ball Stafford through an absolute freaking dime to DeMarcus Robinson
Speaker 2: for the win. We started this, folks, if you're listening
Speaker 2: with the Rams game twenty twenty and overtimes, Hafford through
Speaker 2: a dime into the end zone.
Speaker 1: Jesus, the Rams are coming. Keep an eye on them,
Speaker 1: for they're.
Speaker 2: Really young defensively. But that Jared Verse Jesus. But I
Speaker 2: want to go back to this, is that not every
Speaker 2: quarterback when you're in the AFC. Right now, Miami's ability
Speaker 2: to compete be exciting and fun to watch with Tua,
Speaker 2: his value is really proven. When he didn't play, they
Speaker 2: were unwatchable. I watched them today. I thought they were
Speaker 2: gonna win the I thought they out played Buffalo for
Speaker 2: most of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean you could argue Dak comes out of
Speaker 1: the game Cooper Rush just looks just like him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't feel like that big of a gap.
Speaker 1: I would say this, and I said it when he
Speaker 1: signed the contract. I understand having a player that can
Speaker 1: make you competitive and keep you in a playoff mix
Speaker 1: in the NFL, that's extremely valuable to so merch, But
Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of line of delineation
Speaker 1: of paying him like the top guys and just paying
Speaker 1: him like I My whole thing with a player like
Speaker 1: that is like, couldn't you just give him twenty eight
Speaker 1: a year? Like it's not like he you should cut him.
Speaker 1: But I can't be paying him fifty to fifty five
Speaker 1: million dollars because he can't go against those guys and
Speaker 1: be better. Then, because you watch him today and you
Speaker 1: watch him the last two weeks, they become a credible
Speaker 1: football team with no unchens is atrocious. Now, he is
Speaker 1: a one hundred percent a starter in the NFL, and
Speaker 1: a good one. But to me, he's always been closer
Speaker 1: to fifteen than he is five. And I just can't
Speaker 1: pay you like five if you're fifteenth, like James Franklin.
Speaker 1: Clearly he's a good football coach. Yeah, but paying him
Speaker 1: like Kirby Smart and like these other guys, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're all, he's gonna be disappointed, but you could do
Speaker 1: way worse, And I think there's got to be some
Speaker 1: middle ground. And everyone's well, these are the coaching salaries,
Speaker 1: these are the quarterback salaries. Like, Okay, do that, and
Speaker 1: then you're always going to be disappointed at the end
Speaker 1: of the season. But if you if Tula was making
Speaker 1: half of what he was making, which would still be
Speaker 1: an astronomical amount of money, instead of signing for one
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy guaranteed on one to sixty, let's say
Speaker 1: they just give him ninety and thirty million dollars a year.
Speaker 1: It's like, God, it's a pretty good deal for starting quarterback.
Speaker 1: He keeps them in the mix. He's a really good player.
Speaker 1: But where it gets controversial as you start paying these
Speaker 1: guys more money than let's say Patrick Mahomes, You're like,
Speaker 1: this makes no sense. This is crazy. It happens in
Speaker 1: the NBA all the time. We just had to max
Speaker 1: the guy out. Well, he's not a max player. You
Speaker 1: want to do that, you know what your fate's gonna
Speaker 1: be Yeah, And I think I don't quite understand why
Speaker 1: no GM's like, just franchise, what's gonna happen? Right, And
Speaker 1: there's always so quick to pay him that that that
Speaker 1: money relative to the last guy that's signed, and then
Speaker 1: they find themselves in trouble because the gap between him
Speaker 1: and Josh two is a good player, and the gap
Speaker 1: between him and Josh is as big as the gap
Speaker 1: between two and his backups. Yeah, and the gap, that
Speaker 1: GAP's huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Right. I do want to talk about the Rams
Speaker 2: beat Seattle twenty six to twenty in overtime Stafford. The
Speaker 2: difference is Geno Smith and Stafford. Both these rosters actually
Speaker 2: have good players. I mean, Seattle's got Smith and Jigba
Speaker 2: the receiver Lockett, DK Metcalf not there today. Kyron Williams
Speaker 2: a pooka got ejected for throwing a punch. Cooper Cup.
Speaker 2: Rams are still banged up, so it always feels like
Speaker 2: they're missing a receiver. But first of all, the Rams
Speaker 2: were awful in the first half. McVeigh again makes tremendous
Speaker 2: adjustments and they're just you know, just Seattle basically beat themselves.
Speaker 2: Gino had a pick six he had three picks hit.
Speaker 2: The two were in the end zone. Cameron Kitchens, the
Speaker 2: rookie from Miami, the Rams had a third rounder, had
Speaker 2: two interceptions. This Rams team, and again the defense is
Speaker 2: so young. Every two weeks I watch the Rams defense
Speaker 2: and they're better, and they have playmakers. Jared Versus a monster.
Speaker 2: That guy is just he looks different than other NFL guy.
Speaker 1: He's Khalil Mack. He's Khalil Mack two point zero. Just
Speaker 1: power rolls.
Speaker 2: Over good tackles, just rolls over guys. And it's interesting
Speaker 2: because I think Seattle should have taken a quarterback last year.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a big mistake a general manager,
Speaker 2: John Snyder. I think smart I would have moved up.
Speaker 2: Their roster doesn't need anything. I mean, you watch them today.
Speaker 2: They got corners, they got an edge rusher, they got
Speaker 2: a left tackle, they got great receivers. Seattle doesn't need anything.
Speaker 2: They needed a quarterback. And Gino's a big, strong kid
Speaker 2: with an arm, but he just makes too many mistakes.
Speaker 2: But watching Matt Stafford today, Jesus, I'm telling you, I
Speaker 2: said this, Let's just take Lamar and Mahomes off the board.
Speaker 2: Just take the best three players in the world off
Speaker 2: the board, they're all different stylistically, I'm not so sure.
Speaker 2: Matt Stafford's not number four in this league. I think
Speaker 2: he's just to me, he's incredible to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to me, it would be him or Herbert.
Speaker 1: I think Herbert with the age. If you did like
Speaker 1: one of those fake drafts, most people GMS would take it.
Speaker 1: But remember a couple of weeks ago on that Thursday
Speaker 1: Night game, when Stafford's ducking people in the backfield and
Speaker 1: throwing touchdowns. You're like, at thirty six years old, to
Speaker 1: wear and tear on this guy to still be playing.
Speaker 1: I mean, we compare FARV to Jordan Love, Like, no,
Speaker 1: that's that's like the good version of FARV. Matt Stafford's
Speaker 1: right with the arm strength. He's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a gun slinger. Yeah, but it had a pick drop today,
Speaker 1: Like he will make some mistakes, but you want to
Speaker 1: be in the trenches with that. I mean, the difference
Speaker 1: in today's game was one quarterback. I mean, think what
Speaker 1: Gino cost him the pick six the guy caught it
Speaker 1: in the end zone. It's the longest touchdown or pick
Speaker 1: returned in the history of the Rams franchise. One hundred
Speaker 1: and three yards. That's a potential fourteen point swing if
Speaker 1: they score a touchdown and then the other pick. He
Speaker 1: lets the ball go. His guy's not looking at him.
Speaker 1: They're in like the four or five yard line and
Speaker 1: being held by the defense. You cannot throw that ball.
Speaker 1: You see it all the time. What do good quarterbacks do?
Speaker 1: Throw it at the guy's feet and just because they
Speaker 1: know you got to live to fight another down. And
Speaker 1: I don't think the rams turn that into points, but
Speaker 1: still that costs you points, yeah, because at minimum that's
Speaker 1: three points. And Gino you look at him against the Bills,
Speaker 1: awful today in big spots against the raft, really good
Speaker 1: young defense, awful forty nine ers. He hasn't beat them
Speaker 1: in five tries. So it's like, I think they were
Speaker 1: in a tough spot last year. You know, to mortgage
Speaker 1: if John didn't love one of the quarterbacks, because the
Speaker 1: one thing you would say is he was on Russell
Speaker 1: Wilson right, tried to trade Russell Wilson to the Browns
Speaker 1: for Josh Allen. He would have been right. So when
Speaker 1: he's like these guys he's known, maybe he didn't feel
Speaker 1: the guy he could get. I could see him loving
Speaker 1: Drake May but would have had no chance to get
Speaker 1: up there. You know, Penni's not really his style. Look
Speaker 1: at Geno, like Gino is physically really gives you, So
Speaker 1: I do wonder you look at some of these quarterbacks
Speaker 1: like the cam Wards and the Shadors might be guys.
Speaker 1: But he would have to because his team is still
Speaker 1: gonna end up what like the fourteenth pick, Like you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to mortgage a lot, and there's gonna be
Speaker 1: some other teams in the quarterbacks. So it's just difficult.
Speaker 1: But they cannot. I mean when Gino called them this
Speaker 1: offseason wanted a contract extension and John just hung up
Speaker 1: on him. That was the right move. Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: been one of the great bridge quarterbacks of all time.
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Usually bridge quarterbacks are a disaster.
Speaker 1: Has been more than credible.
Speaker 2: Listen, I wrote it down today. If you'd never seen
Speaker 2: him play, he made four or five I put three
Speaker 2: or four huge Geno throws. There are times he spins it.
Speaker 2: I mean he oh you know remember thebos Remember the
Speaker 2: NBA guy Joe Johnson and like, yeah, you look up
Speaker 2: and you're like Joe Johnson's like one of the all
Speaker 2: time great scorers, but was never like a winning player,
Speaker 2: but he was all time get a bucket guy. Gino
Speaker 2: is one of those guys that stands in the pocket
Speaker 2: and if you didn't know his history and he just
Speaker 2: said go throw a forty yard out, that ball never
Speaker 2: dips like he's got a hose and he can run.
Speaker 2: He just is one of those guys that I think
Speaker 2: his judgment in crisis really regresses fast. He makes really
Speaker 2: big mistakes. And I think you know I was I've
Speaker 2: been told this by two executives that Shador Sanders is
Speaker 2: the best quarterback in the draft. Somebody else will take
Speaker 2: cam Ward. He's electric, he's fun. You know, he'll galvanize
Speaker 2: some locker room somewhere.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: It is tough because if you're the Rams and you
Speaker 2: look at Stafford and I mean Herbert's got a ten
Speaker 2: year runway. I mean you watch him today, like when
Speaker 2: they get a legitimate number one receiver, holy shit, watch
Speaker 2: out because they're winning right now with you know that
Speaker 2: it is patchwork at wide receiver. It's this guy. That
Speaker 2: guy will dis lead.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be a team no one's gonna want to see.
Speaker 1: In the first round of the playoffs. So because they're
Speaker 1: good on defense and that Jim Harbaugh is their coach,
Speaker 1: and they could beat you seventeen to fifteen in the
Speaker 1: first round. Yeah, and that's where Seattle Gino played well,
Speaker 1: if you would just play. But like you said, freaks
Speaker 1: out in crisis, will wins. There's crisis against the best teams. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: they get up and they kind of smother some of
Speaker 1: the shittier teams. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I think I just watched the Rams
Speaker 2: when that thing in overtime today, and my takeaway is
Speaker 2: take out Mahomes and Andy Reid. I would argue McVeigh
Speaker 2: and Stafford are the best head coach quarterback combo in
Speaker 2: the league. So I don't buy into this rebuild stuff.
Speaker 2: I think these guys I don't think they could. I
Speaker 2: think their defense is better than the Lions. They would
Speaker 2: have to be completely healthy to beat the Lions. I
Speaker 2: think they can beat anybody else in the NFC. I
Speaker 2: think they can beat Washington, Philadelphia, Arizona, Minnesota already beat them.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they can beat Detroit. All I'm
Speaker 2: saying is the record doesn't prove it. But on the
Speaker 2: if they're healthy, I think they may be the toughest
Speaker 2: matchup along with the Niners for the Detroit Lions. That's
Speaker 2: how much I think of McVeigh and Stafford Collins.
Speaker 1: For like four straight weeks they played with me and
Speaker 1: you a wide receiver. I mean they beat the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers with me and you a wide receiver and
Speaker 1: two two at well. I mean, I think that win
Speaker 1: against the forty nine ers, because it happened so early,
Speaker 1: will be overlooked as the season goes on. But if
Speaker 1: they end up with nine or ten wins, that win
Speaker 1: saved their season because they easily could have been like
Speaker 1: zero to four and the entire team was offensively was injured.
Speaker 1: You can't run the ball when you have no threat.
Speaker 1: And then once they gets these guys back you're watching,
Speaker 1: you're like, hotly, shit, they are a problem. They look
Speaker 1: like the version of the team we saw at the
Speaker 1: end of the season last year. And what and the
Speaker 1: guys they have on defense. You know, they have some
Speaker 1: rookies playing that are obviously awesome, but they also have
Speaker 1: second second year guys that played a ton last year.
Speaker 1: So now their defense is young, it's fast, full of
Speaker 1: a bunch of playmakers. And now they got a pass rush.
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be very hard for them
Speaker 1: to replace Donald just because I mean, he's one of
Speaker 1: the greatest players of all time. But I do think
Speaker 1: they're kind of doing it on quantity. I mean, they
Speaker 1: have so many good young players that just I would say,
Speaker 1: just from an effort standpoint, there can't be many defense
Speaker 1: in the league. Did play harder? Just just play in
Speaker 1: play out to just play harder. You know you've watched
Speaker 1: the Ravens sometimes, like God, are they playing hard right now?
Speaker 1: On defense?
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Speaker 2: All right, I want to talk. Listen. Ohio State should
Speaker 2: have put Penn State away earlier, but they're the better
Speaker 2: team USC Lincoln Riley's now twelve and twelve again, they
Speaker 2: lead late and lose Oregon. Thump's Michigan. I think we've
Speaker 2: spent so much time looking at Texas and Georgia and
Speaker 2: Bama and Ohio State and last year in Michigan. I
Speaker 2: watched Oregon this weekend. I'm not sure what they're not
Speaker 2: good at. Like I'm like, I'll tell you this. The
Speaker 2: more I watch Oregon, the more I like them. The
Speaker 2: more I watch Ohio State, the less I like them.
Speaker 2: I feel like Ohio State offensively, John has a bit
Speaker 2: of an identity crisis. They want to run the ball
Speaker 2: because they've been criticis size for not running it. But
Speaker 2: their best players are all wide receivers, and then combine
Speaker 2: that with Will Howard just isn't as good as we
Speaker 2: thought he was gonna be. I figured I watched him
Speaker 2: at Kansas State. I thought, you know what, he's getting
Speaker 2: all these receivers. He may win a Heisman. He's just
Speaker 2: he's a good college quarterback. I don't see any special
Speaker 2: And every time I watch Ohio State, I'm like, they
Speaker 2: leave points on the table. They just it just doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like I watched Oregon. Oregon is squeezing every fricking
Speaker 2: ounce of talent out of that roster. I mean to
Speaker 2: go on the road in college, even though Michigan's not great,
Speaker 2: and just kick the shit out of him. I mean,
Speaker 2: the game wasn't even as close as thirty eight to seventeen.
Speaker 2: I just don't think we're ready to embrace this. People
Speaker 2: outside of the West Coast don't understand. Oregon's dominated Southern
Speaker 2: California recruiting in the Pac twelve for about eight years.
Speaker 2: They just get the best players, they pay for them,
Speaker 2: and I don't know. I think I think Oregon's the
Speaker 2: best team I've seen.
Speaker 1: I want to hate Ohio State. I actually thought that
Speaker 1: was a pretty impressive game. Yesterday because I thought they
Speaker 1: shoved around Penn State, they made the big plays when
Speaker 1: they had to. I mean Penn State classic just blew
Speaker 1: in the red zone. I mean Ohio State is missing
Speaker 1: multiple offensive linemen. I think they had a guy started
Speaker 1: left tackle and left guard that had never even played
Speaker 1: the position, So they're moving guys around. I'm with you
Speaker 1: on the quarterback, but when you look, it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't love George's quarterback. You know, Dylan Gabriel can throw
Speaker 1: the ball. I have more faith in him than those guys,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of small and against a big time defense,
Speaker 1: could he be knocked out or whatever? But I hear yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I think Oregon. If you had to pick
Speaker 1: a team to win the national Championship as we sit
Speaker 1: here today, it would be Oregon. But if Ohio State
Speaker 1: gets healthy, like I mean, their talent, that safety that
Speaker 1: they got from Alabama, they basically just put him on
Speaker 1: forty four. Who you know, that guy is going to
Speaker 1: be a top fifty pick. I mean against that see,
Speaker 1: you had like fifty catches in the game, and he
Speaker 1: did have a great catch in that game, but for
Speaker 1: the most part, they neutralized him a little bit and
Speaker 1: What a What a letdown by Penn State. If I
Speaker 1: would have told you they'd be up ten to nothing
Speaker 1: on a pick six and they would score three points,
Speaker 1: you know, with five minutes in the game, score three
Speaker 1: points the rest of the game. That's pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 2: You know what I feel like with James Franklin, and
Speaker 2: I've met him before and I do like him. And
Speaker 2: I see this sometimes in college basketball and football. John
Speaker 2: Kyler paris a little bit of this great recruiter, and
Speaker 2: I feel like there's nothing else he's great at. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's some guys like Jay Wright was great recruiting, developing,
Speaker 2: building a defense, creating leaders, tight late game situations. I mean,
Speaker 2: like Jay Wright checked every box. Krzyzewski's offense could be boring,
Speaker 2: but Mike checked a lot of boxes. So does Bill self.
Speaker 2: You know, Calipari's like the guy he can sell and
Speaker 2: that he deserves credit for that. But when I watch
Speaker 2: James Franklin, I feel like he's very dependent on having
Speaker 2: a great offensive coordinator. He can recruit his defense. Front
Speaker 2: sevens are Oh, it is really formidable. They look like
Speaker 2: an SEC front seven. They always got a pass rush.
Speaker 2: I just I just think he is sort of. I
Speaker 2: just think he is what I see a lot of.
Speaker 2: He deserves his money. It's a great program. I like
Speaker 2: watching them play, but I just don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think I trust them in tight, big game situations.
Speaker 1: I don't where are their wider where are their wide receivers? Yesterday?
Speaker 1: You know, for a guy that is a great recruiter,
Speaker 1: and like you said, and they got NFL guys all
Speaker 1: over that roster. I think that's why it's such a letdown.
Speaker 1: You go, our roster is just as good as their roster.
Speaker 1: I actually think their quarterback, who was awful last year,
Speaker 1: it's kind of grown on me a little bit this year.
Speaker 1: But their wide receivers make no place, and they're so
Speaker 1: dependent on the tight end, who was a really good player,
Speaker 1: but to get him in that spot. They're all bitching
Speaker 1: and moaning because it's the morning game. They want the
Speaker 1: night games. Like guys, it wouldn't have mattered if the
Speaker 1: game would have been at midnight or at you know,
Speaker 1: five in the morning. You're never beating this team. And
Speaker 1: I just know long Penn State probably in the playoff
Speaker 1: because you've look at their schedule. They have one loss.
Speaker 1: But I don't take this program seriously at all relatives,
Speaker 1: like competing for national championships. Are they gonna have a
Speaker 1: ton of NFL guys. If you're a scout, you spend
Speaker 1: five days a week there during the year, do you
Speaker 1: need Yeah? Are they gonna win their ten eleven games
Speaker 1: depending on how the schedule breaks. You will never pick
Speaker 1: them against Ohio State. You will now never pick them
Speaker 1: against Oregon. And you know, we'll see if Michigan and
Speaker 1: USC can get their shit together over the next couple years.
Speaker 1: But if those teams are good, you will pick those
Speaker 1: teams over Penn State as well. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: crazy because I think this was the first time. It's like,
Speaker 1: I think Penn State's got a shot, and then they're
Speaker 1: up ten to nothing. You're like, God, is Ohio State
Speaker 1: about to get their butt kicked? Yeah? And then you're like, no,
Speaker 1: they're not, because they just never make a big play
Speaker 1: when it has to be made. Obviously, the pick at
Speaker 1: the end of the first half was devastating. They get
Speaker 1: they get that final drive, they're adding the goal line essentially,
Speaker 1: and they can't punch it in the end zone. They
Speaker 1: just run it right up the gut twice and then
Speaker 1: they throw it on fourth down. It wasn't even close.
Speaker 1: And then Ohio State with all these random offensive linemen
Speaker 1: run it right down their throat, the strength of their team,
Speaker 1: all these NFL guys, and in the game there's a
Speaker 1: big win for Ryan Day and I'm I can be
Speaker 1: Ohio State hater, but that was that was impressive to
Speaker 1: go on.
Speaker 2: Winning on the roads hard in college, especially when you
Speaker 2: don't have a superstar quarterback. When you have a solid
Speaker 2: guy and Will Howard, winning on the road is hard.
Speaker 2: It is so h let me touch on us C.
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley twelve and twelve.
Speaker 1: I'll go back to their record right now, Colin.
Speaker 2: I think they're four and five or three?
Speaker 1: And what are they? I think the four and five? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty crazy, isn't it. If I would have told
Speaker 1: you year three they'd be four and five.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that gets really disappointing
Speaker 2: to me, Lincoln Riley said after the game, you know,
Speaker 2: six plays and we're nine to zero, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: not really. I do think offensively they'll be better next year,
Speaker 2: but I think I go back to something like they're
Speaker 2: getting wiped out in the state of California, they're just
Speaker 2: not recruiting the state. I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 2: he has a love for recruiting. I think there's some
Speaker 2: guys that really Saban loved it, he had charisma. I
Speaker 2: think I think there's some guys that really loved to Wrook.
Speaker 2: I think Stark, Lane, Kiffen, there's a handful of guys.
Speaker 2: I think Ryan Day's probably hell of a recruiter. Brian Hartline,
Speaker 2: his receiver coach, is a great recruiter. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: Lincoln comes off as very prickly, very aloof, very detached,
Speaker 2: overly protective of players. I mean he cut off media
Speaker 2: this week, No more media at the practices. It's like,
Speaker 2: you're four and five, we got better things to do.
Speaker 2: I think I think sometimes he's forgetting this is not
Speaker 2: a rural town like this is. We got We got
Speaker 2: Sean McVay and the Lakers and the Dodgers and Herbert
Speaker 2: and the Rams. You start cutting people off like it's
Speaker 2: like I'm a I'm considered sort of pro usc But
Speaker 2: when I watch him, I go back to something that
Speaker 2: I think it's very clear to see they don't have
Speaker 2: enough good football players. And you know, Rick Newheizel won
Speaker 2: a Rose Bull Washington, they beat Purdue. I didn't think.
Speaker 2: I didn't think new Heuiseel was a great coach. But
Speaker 2: he liked recruiting. He was engaged. He really really enjoyed
Speaker 2: the showmanship of it. And Washington's up in the rain
Speaker 2: in the Pacific Northwest. They had Marcus tuiasa sopot quarterback.
Speaker 2: But I always come out of it and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know what if you recruit at college, Charlie Weise
Speaker 2: couldn't recruit. He was a smart guy, couldn't recruit. I
Speaker 2: just look at their brand. They have literally one serviceable
Speaker 2: offensive tackle, they have one running back. They're very pass happy.
Speaker 2: I look at it and I think to myself, they'll
Speaker 2: be better next year. I don't see special I don't
Speaker 2: see the players.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if you would have told me this
Speaker 1: would have taken place after they beat LSU, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have believed you because it was clear like LSU was
Speaker 1: gonna be a good team. And if they beat Alabama
Speaker 1: next week on, they're gonna be ten to two and
Speaker 1: be a playoff team. Yeah, you know, so it's for
Speaker 1: them to end up four and five, and like, are
Speaker 1: we sure they're I mean six and six. They've proven
Speaker 1: now they can lose to anybody. I think the craziest part,
Speaker 1: and it hit me last night. I'm watching the game.
Speaker 1: They're down twenty to seven, and I was like, they're
Speaker 1: about to get rolled. I just turned on other games.
Speaker 1: I was actually shocked when I went back to my
Speaker 1: phone and saw that the game was close, so then
Speaker 1: I turned it back on. But it's barely November first,
Speaker 1: and they don't They don't matter in the college landscape
Speaker 1: like you watch and you know some of their fans
Speaker 1: watched the whole game because they're invested in the program,
Speaker 1: But I didn't need to watch. I was paying attention
Speaker 1: because I know we talk about it, but they don't matter.
Speaker 1: It does if you talk about Data's football. You don't
Speaker 1: need to watch them. No which year three paying them
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty million. This is an epic disaster,
Speaker 1: Colin John.
Speaker 2: They don't have anything resembling a first round player. They
Speaker 2: don't have anything. They have a center that is going
Speaker 2: about the third round. They have a safety in about
Speaker 2: a year I think will go in the third kind
Speaker 2: of a third round player. They have some nice receivers,
Speaker 2: none feel like first round players. They they have thirteen
Speaker 2: million dollars in nil, Go buy an elite left tackle
Speaker 2: for a million dollars. Go buy the best rush in
Speaker 2: and football they don't have. I mean, Washington's in a rebuild.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure they have more good players in Washington.
Speaker 2: And Washington's in a rebuild. With Jed Fish in his
Speaker 2: first year.
Speaker 1: I would say this. I mean, he's not going and
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna happen. But UCLA has showed some fight this season.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like they've They've at least shown some character.
Speaker 1: And if he were to lose that game regardless, I mean,
Speaker 1: now the record, would you agree the records kind of irrelevant?
Speaker 1: I don't even know what bowl games mean anymore in
Speaker 1: this college football do bowl games even still exist? But
Speaker 1: that that would be it'd be hard for people around
Speaker 1: the program and the money people to take him seriously.
Speaker 1: I mean it is right now at four and five
Speaker 1: into year three. Like people are on Brian Kelly. I
Speaker 1: mean he's he has a bad half against text A
Speaker 1: and M on the road. You know when they have
Speaker 1: a million NFL guys like he was kicking their ass
Speaker 1: for a half. You watch and I watch a lot
Speaker 1: of LSU because I love watching the SEC. It's where
Speaker 1: the best players are. He's doing a pretty good job.
Speaker 1: And you talked to him. My scouting buddies are like,
Speaker 1: it's it's an impressive operation there. When you go in there,
Speaker 1: they're like, I would buy stock in this program moving forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is not the case. And like you said, the
Speaker 1: reporter thing, he did that last year. He does it
Speaker 1: like Lincoln. Why are you even worried about things that
Speaker 1: are just completely irrelevant to can you beat Jetfish? I
Speaker 1: mean Jetfish should have beat you two years in a row.
Speaker 1: You remember they got very lucky to beat him last year.
Speaker 1: Was that that game go to overtime? Maybe beat him
Speaker 1: on the last play in the game? Yep, Caleb made
Speaker 1: an incredible play in overtime. Remember he kind of scrambled.
Speaker 1: They easily could have lost that game. They were lucky
Speaker 1: to be seven to five last year. Because they lose
Speaker 1: that thing. They're six and six and it looks like
Speaker 1: they're headed towards six and six. And I would say,
Speaker 1: you're six and six and you lose to this UCLA
Speaker 1: team with Deshaun Foster. They're not paying one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars for that. And like you said, think
Speaker 1: of all the top coaches, Dan Lanning, I mean loves
Speaker 1: to recruit clearly, like you say, Ryan Day in that program,
Speaker 1: they recruit their ass off. Kirby smart recruiter, sark huge.
Speaker 1: So the top programs, which USC, LSU and you know
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly puts a lot effort to it. They hired
Speaker 1: you to be their equals. Well, you know, coaching right
Speaker 1: now is not going that well. But it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: college football is not quite the NFL. If you just
Speaker 1: got the Jimmies and the Joe's, you could win, especially
Speaker 1: that C what eight nine games, no doubt about you.
Speaker 1: Then you got out coach to get to undefeated or
Speaker 1: a one loss your Jimmy's in the Joe's. See didn't
Speaker 1: they didn't play Oregon this year, did they?
Speaker 2: They are Ohio State. They get run out of the
Speaker 2: stadium with those teams.
Speaker 1: So they got lucky with their schedule. It could be
Speaker 1: way worse.
Speaker 2: Right, Listen, Clay Hilton could not recruit or develop, but
Speaker 2: he tried. He had an effort. I mean, it's USC
Speaker 2: fans come up mask me. I'm like, go watch the games.
Speaker 2: They don't have any separators their receivers. They have a
Speaker 2: kid named Lemon, runs good routes, good hands. They don't
Speaker 2: have anybody that separates. They got a safety, a center Wood.
Speaker 2: He marks the transfer running backs, a nice player. He's
Speaker 2: probably a fourth fifth round or nice player. They don't
Speaker 2: have a second running back in the program. They have
Speaker 2: one tackle that can play offensively. They have no great
Speaker 2: pass rushers. They just they just don't have any good
Speaker 2: play They don't have enough quality. If you took the
Speaker 2: best ten Ohio State players and the USC the best
Speaker 2: ten Ohio State's got eight of them.
Speaker 1: Well, is there a chance that, like the point of
Speaker 1: difference of Lincoln who was supposed to be this genius
Speaker 1: offensive guy, the gap between him Jed Fish an offensive
Speaker 1: guy who's coached with the best in the business, and
Speaker 1: his staff has a Belichick and at Carol obviously Dan
Speaker 1: Lanning staff is elite. You know, Ryan Day and Chip
Speaker 1: Kelly don't suck. I mean, you look around the conference.
Speaker 1: You go, you gotta beat some pretty well coached staffs.
Speaker 1: Iowa was a well coached staff. You got some of
Speaker 1: these teams, it's just going to be very, very difficult
Speaker 1: for them if they are not recruiting the best. I mean,
Speaker 1: Pete Carroll and his hey day had the best of
Speaker 1: both worlds. Right.
Speaker 2: Look, go to Rivals dot Com twenty twenty five recruiting California,
Speaker 2: an M, Texas, Oregon, Texas A and M lash there's
Speaker 2: no ut USC's got one rush and good kid from
Speaker 2: about thirty minutes outside of La up north. They're not
Speaker 2: getting a the players.
Speaker 1: Well, think about this. If you're a kid right now,
Speaker 1: Let's say you're seventeen years old, for your entire life,
Speaker 1: starting at like eight nine years old, when you kind
Speaker 1: of start really understanding sports, SE's never been relevant. So
Speaker 1: you don't remember, like Matt Lioner thrown to Dwayne Jarrett.
Speaker 1: You weren't even born, So it's like maybe you were born.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Six, those teams have already they were done. So how
Speaker 1: this notion of like momentum is a real thing, right?
Speaker 1: I think Schefter had a report today like people are
Speaker 1: interested in going to the commanders. Don't blame them. I
Speaker 1: would be too. No one would have said that eight
Speaker 1: months ago. Things change faster than ever in society. If
Speaker 1: you're a kid, like I'd want to go to Oregon,
Speaker 1: I'd want to go to Georgia, I'd want to go
Speaker 1: to LSU. I'd want to go Hell, South Carolina beat
Speaker 1: the crap at A and M. They look cool. You
Speaker 1: know Ohio State. Why would you want to go to
Speaker 1: sc What have they done over the last I would
Speaker 1: just say ten years to be if you're a young
Speaker 1: kid like I want to go there. We talk about
Speaker 1: it a lot because we remember these moments. Yeah they
Speaker 1: do not Yeah, and now with social media and stuff,
Speaker 1: their moments are they don't even exist. So I think
Speaker 1: he has a lot to overcome. And this gets to
Speaker 1: the thing is like can he build from scratch because
Speaker 1: that's what this need and it doesn't look like he
Speaker 1: really can. Yeah, where Jedfish is a good example. Went
Speaker 1: to Arizona that was a disaster. What he proved that
Speaker 1: he was able to do and look at Arizona this
Speaker 1: year they stink again. Yeah, it's like that. That is
Speaker 1: really difficult to do to go to a program just
Speaker 1: in general in college football that's down and out let
Speaker 1: alone a non power program, and turn it into a
Speaker 1: nine to ten win team. He took over Bob Stoop's team,
Speaker 1: which he inherited. I don't know, a team full of
Speaker 1: over under probably twenty NFL guys. Yes, start in the
Speaker 1: league right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean what worries me even the guys
Speaker 2: outside of Caleb Williams that he brought from Oklahoma to USC.
Speaker 2: This is one of the first warning signs. He brought
Speaker 2: about six guys from Oklahoma to USC. One could play
Speaker 2: one one guy.
Speaker 1: And the Jordan Addison move, which obviously was a really
Speaker 1: good move. You know, they had Kleb like, is he
Speaker 1: getting Jordan Addison this offseason? Like the equivalent of that guy,
Speaker 1: No chance, right?
Speaker 2: I mean one of their starters in the line is
Speaker 2: from Wyoming. One of the starters in their own line
Speaker 2: is from Wyoming. They're cherry picking Wyoming players in the
Speaker 2: transfer portal like they're just not They just don't have
Speaker 2: a good enough sales pitch. And that's college for.
Speaker 1: I think this. I think the sad thing is if
Speaker 1: you're a big you know, LA SC booster and money guy,
Speaker 1: you look around college football, it's not like there are
Speaker 1: these programs that are head and shoulder like it is
Speaker 1: very winnable right now. Yeah, I would say most of
Speaker 1: these teams, like you said, Oregon has really got their
Speaker 1: swag back after beating Ohio State. But I've watched Georgia
Speaker 1: against Florida. They don't look great. I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: like Ohio State. This is their best team in the
Speaker 1: last twenty years. Probably woudn't've be a top five team
Speaker 1: in the last twenty years. So you look around college football,
Speaker 1: you go, well, Alabama's kind of meh for their standards.
Speaker 1: LSU's got some issues. Yeah we should. Yeah, what are
Speaker 1: we doing here? We can't. We can't even sniff those two.
Speaker 1: We can't even be Washington. What's Washington? A seven win team?
Speaker 1: That's that's a problem, Colin, that's a problem.
Speaker 2: John Middlecoff, former NFL Scout three and out as always, Buddy,
Speaker 2: great talking to him.
Speaker 1: See you, Colin, fight on, baby. That's all we can
Speaker 1: do the volume.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
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